(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019. Brought to you by, Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to the cube's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, alongside of my co-host Stu Miniman, Analyst. We have two guests for this segment. We have Angie Cusworth, she is the COO of Hardy Fisher Services. >> Hi. >> Thank you so much for coming on Angie. >> Hi. >> And we have David Cusworth SVP sales at Hardy Fisher Services. Thank you so much! >> Thank you. >> And husband and wife. >> And a husband and wife team! >> I believe we have done it before, I know we've had twins on the program. >> Right, yes. >> Uh, but uh, yeah. >> Couples who work, I like it! We'll get into how you make it all work. But David, I want to start with you. Describe Hardy Fisher Services for our viewers who may be unfamiliar with your company. >> Yeah, so we own and operate a large data center based in Leeds, so it's a 400 watt capacity data center previously built for BT house NHS patient records in the UK. And we operate that as a reseller base data center, so we are a very clear go-to market. We have our co-location, we have money services and then obviously cloud which is based on Nutanix. >> So, wait Angie what are the biggest business challenges that you face in your world. >> So I think it's trying to convince customers to move to the cloud. Obviously, you know, we've been doing cloud for some time now. I don't know how to-- >> Yeah, so David, we're talking about that move to cloud. It help it put where, you know, your services built both now Nutanix fit in the customers overall picture. Cause you know, you've SAS, you've got public cloud people are building private clouds off Nutanix or other type of hardware, so you know how do you play with some of those other components and position yourself? >> I think a lot of the challenges that we've seen is people are comfortable with Azure so a lot of resellers that we deal with. Azure is a safe bet. Nutanix is still quite a new name in the marketplace. There's people who don't want to move to the cloud because they don't understand it. So, a lot of the time, we show them the cloud platform in our data centers, and can touch and feel it they can actually see it. Which gives them a bit more confidence. And then, from our side it's the service wrap, so it's holding them the hands on the journey to the cloud. So it's given our technical ability to say, you know, we'll do it for you, we'll hold your hands, we'll get you working. And at the end of the day, the cloud is people's businesses. So if the cloud doesn't work, it affects their business and we're trying to put our hats on as a customer. >> Yeah, it's funny. It reminds me, we used to have the joke, there is no cloud, there is just you know, your computer somewhere else. Angie, bring us inside, a little bit? Your customers, it sounds like they're still a little bit of trepidation about them making changes there? >> Yeah, I think one of the reasons that we've been so successful, is that we follow IT Service Management very well. So we help our customers through the whole journey. So people that are new to cloud, we have excellent technical people, that can help them. We have a fantastic data center, as well. So, they know their kits are safe with us. >> Yeah, bring us inside a little bit. You talked about how many racks there. What differentiates your data center? There's you know, most companies, you know, we tell the average enterprise out there, you know. Friends don't let friends build data centers. There's other people that know what they're doing. So, give us a little bit of a virtual tour, if you would. >> Yeah, so our data center. Like I said, It was originally built for BT and for the NHS. And as they moved to cloud, the need for their data center shrunk. Leeds as a city is growing city and there's not many data centers in Leeds, so we took the opportunity to really re-launch the data center. We knew it was a very high spec data center, cause it cost a lot of money to build. And it gives the customers confidence that when they are going in there, it's very secure. It's very high resilience. And from a cloud platform, we've gone completely Nutanix. So it is literally, you can come in, you can touch Nutanix, you can play with it. And it's just the whole journey really, that to make sure they're in a safe pair of hands. >> Talk a little bit more about how Nutanix comes into play with your organization. >> We went with Nutanix because we're looking for something to be different. There's a lot of people who've got this UA to be WES in that V seller market. So we wanted something that was focused on SME. So we've got very, very much SME focus. And cost comes into it. Having that support, so being able to ring somebody up and not being in a big call center in Asia or in Europe. Somebody who can actually talk them through, what the issues are, also be very responsive, and put the customer first. >> Yeah, it's interesting, and when I think about kind of the traditional service provider. It's like they've build out their management stack, they build something at a scale, so that, you know, they can do something that their customer couldn't. It sounds like Nutanix is a different type of offering. We've been talking about it all week. It's not thriving in that complexity, but you know you just have a simple offering. And then, of course, you know price and easy to manage. Is something that service providers need, so, It sounds as if you built this ten years ago, you might have had to do something very different then how you do it today. >> Yeah, no, absolutely. It's given us a market that really hasn't been there in the past. You know, we can help resellers on the journey, we can give them a bit of a lift up, so. If their too small or they've just got going in cloud and they can't afford to get their own Nutanix platform, then we can get them going and then they can start going into Nutanix. But it's a real differentiate. It's like I say, to a lot of people, it's the safe bet it's your AWS. It's you know a Microsoft name. No one ever gets sacked for by Microsoft kind of conversation. >> I think one of the other compelling things is the cost of it as well. A lot of people think it's cheaper to go as your AWS. Actually it's mechanics are very cost effective for our customers and that's why it appeals for, you know the kind of smaller resellers that we deal with. >> You know, are you starting to do any connection now that you think about as your AWS have their direct connect. When you have people's environment, sometimes they might want to access those services or are you starting to look that, in that environment? Where some of the Nutanix hybrid solutions? >> Yeah, so what we do at the moment is we backup mainly to Azure. So we've, we've a central core platform with Nutanix and then, we're back up as a failover to Azure. But, again, customers don't like the complexity of even doing that as a back up. So it's been great coming to the event and seeing the Nutanix backup and the options there because our customers love Nutanix. >> So are you interested in the mine solution, that has been rolling out? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah, yeah absolutely. That's one of the things that we're really looking forward to going back to explore. And that will be next on our road map. >> Are you starting to look out as to which solution with mine you're going to use or are you still under discussion? >> Yeah, we'll leave that to our technical director. I'm sure he'll point us in the right direction. >> One of the things we hear a lot about at this conference is Nutanix's culture. It's people first culture. It's humble, honest, hungry. How does that come into play in terms of your interactions with the company? >> I think for us, that's a culture that we have as well in our own business. And that really does shine through for every person that we've ever dealt with at Nutanix. There it's always customer first. I can't fault them, they're amazing. >> I think for us, it doesn't feel like you're a big company because it's such of a personal relationship. So it doesn't feel like you're talking to a big corporate company where you're not heard, you know, if you're not a a big customer. The relationships we've got with people work and just pick up the phone it might be a really senior position and they'll help us, and that's something that's really good in Nutanix. >> I'm wondering if you've had any experience with Nutanix support, so we know uptime is, is super critical. So what is your experience? >> Yeah, fantastic. I mean, from an operational perspective, I love the self healing, that's built into the platform. Anyway, I love the fact that my technical guys don't have to be uber technical to be able to operate. That's one of the other benefits in Nutanix for us. It ticks all the boxes from an operational perspective. >> I think from our side as well, the technical guys, so, our first and second line guys can understand Nutanix. They can get their head around it, so it's very easy to train and more with Nutanix as opposed to other platforms where it can take up to a year to really understand how the platform works. It is very, very simple for our support desk. Which means, it is less demand on the support that's got Angie then. >> Training in the skills gap is a hugely important issue in the technology world. It's in the United States and also in Europe. How are you finding it, what is it like to be a Leeds based company, are you finding the people you need to fill the roles you have open? >> We're really lucky actually, because our technical director is an ex-trainer, so we can do a lot of the training on site. But Nutanix training is something that we're definitely going to be tapping into. I've been speaking to the guys here, and that's another useful thing for us to take back to the UK. >> Give our audience a little bit of insight, so you know, what you get out of coming out to the Nutanix conference, you came last year to London, you came out here to Copenhagen. What were you hoping to accomplish? What are the conversations been, give us a little bit of a flavor. >> I think it's been good to network with other Nutanix customers to understand their journey. Definitely to learn about what Nutanix is doing now and in the future. When you're running a business it's kind of head down sometimes. Allowance, you know, you don't get time to really sit and look up what the market is doing. So for us, it's also to be part of our journey, you know, we went to event four or five years ago when it was much smaller, much newer name. And to see how fast Nutanix has gone is amazing. It really is. >> Absolutely, I think it's given us clarity on what we need to do next year. Like I say, you've helped us by coming here today and yesterday, seeing the presentations on how we can implement that into our own business. And how we can really take Nutanix forward. >> In terms of the future, you said you are going to, you're looking into Mine. You're thinking about using some of the Nutanix training, capabilities. >> Frames, Beam. >> So, there's a lot there. >> So yeah, we've really honestly taken so much back and I can't wait now. I think for me personally, it's re-energized me. I'm excited about going back and just working out where we can really take Nutanix forward. >> And what's next for Hardy Fisher? >> It's just growth, we're at an early journey now. So we're kind of at the start of our journey, over the next five years, it's all about growth. We see Leeds as a bit a city that's growing itself. We've had a lot of changes in Leeds as a city. It's still quite small. It's a digital city, but it's got massive focus on growing. We're having a big part of that because we're one of three data centers in Leeds. So, it's not a heavily populated area for data centers. And we're all about helping local resellers, you know, get on that ladder for Nutanix. >> So that will be a big driver for us, you know help the small MSPs. You know, let them touch and feel Nutanix in our data center. And then hopefully give them the leg up for them to buy their own boxes, and then co-locate that in the data centers as well. >> So, as as as devoted Nutanix customers, any advice for Dirige Pandey? He's got, he's under a lot pressure. It's a competitive landscape. You love Nutanix. >> Angie: He's nailed it. >> David: I think, just keep doing what they're doing. >> Rebecca: Stick to your knitting. >> Don't get sold to one of the bigger boys and keep the-- >> Yeah, absolutely, keep the culture. And the, everything that you're doing technically wise it's just unreal. We're blown away. >> I think the culture as well, keep it to grow as big as you are now, keep that culture which has been very hard. I mean, we try doing it in our businesses. You know we have a very hardworking ethic. But we want people to enjoy where they work. We want to have a good work flow, life balance. And it's very difficult to do in a big company. >> Is it, do you like working with each other, in your husband and wife team? >> Yeah, it has it's challenges. (laughing) It has it's challenges but we've worked together for 12 years now, so. >> It's gotten better at work. >> All right. >> It's very hard because, I sell it and I support it, so unless I sell it properly I get in trouble. (laughing) >> Dog house. >> I have to reign him in. >> Exactly, well David an Angie, thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you very much for having us. Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We'll have more for Nutanix.NEXT in Copenhagen coming up in just a little bit.

>> Announcer: Live, from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE! Covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT. We are at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, alongside of Stu Miniman, of course. We are joined by a good friend of theCUBE, Ray Wang, principal analyst and CEO of Constellation Research. Thank you so much for returning to theCUBE. >> Hey, how you doing? Good morning! >> Good morning, good morning! >> Good morning! (laughing) >> Good morning! >> I don't know. I get all my accents wrong out here. >> (laughing) So, you got a shout out on the main stage this morning, from Monica Kumar, congratulations on that. She talked about you and your research on the infinite role of computing. You also do a lot with the future of work. I know that that is really right in your wheelhouse right now. What are you hearing, what are you seeing, what kinds of conversations are you having that are interesting you? >> Yeah, so, this infinite computing option, it's one of the that we're talking about, the fact that you can scale out forever, right? And the problem that's holding us back has been technical debt, right? So all that legacy that everyone's got to figure out. It's like, my connections, my server, my disk-rack recovery, my disaster recovery, my backup, everything. It's a pain in the butt. And I'm still trying to get onto the cloud. So on that end, we're like, okay, all this stuff is holding us back, how do we get there? Now, the future of work is a little bit different. We're seeing a very very different set of work. People have talked about where we are the gig economy, but that's just one aspect of it. Everything is being decomposed into microservices. Large processes are becoming smaller and smaller microservices, they're being reusable, well our work and tasks are following the same way. We're getting smaller and smaller tasks, some are more repetitive, some are going to be automated, and it's really about where we actually find the difference between augmentation of humanity, and full automation, and that's where the next battle's going to be. >> Yeah, Ray, some of the discussions we've been having this week, is how do we really simplify the environment? The balance I hear from customers, on the one hand, they're always like, I don't have enough money, I don't have enough personnel, on the other hand, oh my gosh, that full automation sounds like you're going to put me out of a job. We know we're not putting everybody out of work in the next couple of years. There are challenges; we worry about the hollowing out of the center of the economy, but here, what Nutanix is trying to do, of course, is, I don't want to have to thrive in that complexity anymore, I want to be able to drive innovation, keep up with that, take advantage of that unlimited resources out there, so, where do you see, you've been here at the show, what are you hearing from the customers here? Anything different in Europe versus back in North America that you'd share about that journey onto the changing roles? >> Oh it's a great point. It's about simplifying everything where you can, it's about areas of automation where they make sense. Here in Europe it's slightly different because a lot of the focus in Europe has been about cost and efficiency, followed by of course regulatory. Those have been the two drivers. And they've been battling that in order to be, even they will look at some level of innovation. Where in the US, people are head on doing innovation, regulatory and operational efficiency at the same time. So that creates a very very different environment. But what we have noticed are some patterns, especially when we look at automation and AI; there are four areas out of seven where we see a lot more automation that's happening. The first one is massively repetitive tasks, those are things, yeah, got to get that out of the way, we don't do this very very well. The second one is really thinking about massive nodes of interaction. When you're connected to multiple places, multiple organizations, multiple instances, that's something where we start to get overwhelmed, and then of course, there's lots of volume. If you've got lots of volume or requests that are coming through, you can't possibly handle that, and that's a place where we see a lot of machine scale. And the last piece is really when you have to scale, humans don't scale very well. However, it's actually not a hollowing out of the middle; it's actually a hollowing out of the ends in a very, very real end, because really really simple tasks go away, super complex tasks go away, and the middle actually remains, and the middle is things that are complex that cannot be recreated by math, they're also areas that require a lot of creativity, humans make the rules, we break the rules, and then the last part is really fine motor skills and presence, the machines still aren't as good. So we still have some hope. So the middle stays, it's the hollowing out of the ends, the high end jobs and the low end jobs are the ones where we're going to see a lot of risk. >> So what does that mean? So we have, leaving the middle there, and as you said, the high end jobs and the low end jobs go away, but what does that mean in terms of the skills? In terms of what employers are looking for, in terms of what they need in their prospective applicants and hirees. >> That's a great point. Soft skills are important; it's the qualitative skills that become even more important, it's also being able to manage and orchestrate the hard skills; because you don't necessarily have to know how to do the calculation, you have to just know which algorithm to apply. >> Okay, and then also, these soft skills of managing people, I'm assuming too? Because computers are not so good at that either. >> Yes. Soft skills are managing people, but also manage the human and machine equation that's going to happen. Because we have to train the machines, the machines aren't going to know that level of intuition, and there's a large amount of training that's going to happen over time. >> All right. So, Ray, one of the things Nutanix is doing is, as they've been transforming to not only subscription, software's always been at their core, but they're starting to do not just infrastructure software, but application software. I know you live in that world quite a lot, so when you hear Nutanix talking about building databases, delivering these services, it's something that I look at, Amazon does some of that, but for the most part they're infrastructure and build on top of us. How do you think, how is Nutanix doing, what are some of the challenges for them, going up against some of the bellwethers out there in tech, and all the open source projects that are out there. >> So the challenge is always going to be, there is a one dominant player in every market. And what they're providing is an alternative to allow the orchestration of not having that, not only that dominant player, but a choice. So in every single market, they're focused on giving users choice, and giving the ability to aggregate, and bring everything into one single plane. That is tough to do, right? And the fact that they see that as their big hairy audacious goal, that's impressive. If you said they were going to do this three years ago, I wouldn't have believed them. >> Well yeah, I think back to, remember almost 10 years ago, VMware tried to get into applications, they bought Zimbra, they bought a few others. Cisco did like 26 adjacencies, they were going to take over video and do all these things, and we've seen lots of failures over the years. They refocused on their core, was a big thing that I heard, that the users seem to be excited about. Are there areas that you're find especially interesting as to where Nutanix is poking? >> So, I would say that Nutanix three years ago was a little bit sleepy. They got comfortable, they did the stuff that they did really well, and it feels like, maybe about 12 months ago, Dheeraj had a different vision. Like something snapped, something hit, he said this isn't working, we're going to change things, and we've seen a whole bunch of new talent come into play. We've also seen a huge expansion of what they're trying to do, and a cleanup of all those side projects that were all going on before. So I think they've actually honed in on, okay, if we can simplify this piece, this is a money-winning business for some time, and they're talking about 80% margins last quarter, I mean that's huge, and that's just trying to save customers money, and make their lives simpler. >> Do you think that they have the messaging right? Because, I mean, they're going to this Thoreauvian/Emersonian idea of simplify, simplify, simplify, and it does resonate, of course! What customer doesn't want a simpler computing experience? But do you think that they are reaching the right people, and they have obviously very passionate customers, but are they getting into new businesses. >> I think they're getting to the businesses that their customers are asking them to, those adjacencies are huge, I think and when you think about cleaning up technical debt, all that legacy debt that you actually have to fix, I mean, this is where you begin. It's so hard to make that cloud journey to begin with, it's even harder to carry all that legacy with you. And we're going to see a lot more of this going forward. >> All right. So, Ray, talk a little bit about, I loved an event you did last year, the people's centered digital future. Help explain to our audience what this is about, and where you're taking it again this year. >> So that event was a one-time event. We were celebrating the 70th anniversary of the United Nations founding, we were celebrating almost 50 years of the internet, and 50% of the world being connected to the internet. And part of the reason that was an important event was, we really felt that there was a need to get back to the roots of where the internet had begun, and more importantly, talk about where we are today in the world of privacy. One of the biggest challenges we have in the a digital world is that your personal data, your genomics, all this information about you is being brokered for free. And what we have to do is take that back. And by taking that back, what I mean is, we've got to make all these rights, property right. If we can make that a property right, we can leverage the existing rules and legislation that's there, and we can actually start paying people for that data through consent, and giving people that ability, on consent to data, could create lots of things, from universal basic income, to a brand new set of data economy that equalizes the playing field, while keeping the large tech giants. >> There's some of those big journeys that we went on, you talk about the internet, this year's 50th anniversary of the first walking on the moon, and you look at how entire countries rallied together, so much technology was-- >> Yeah, look at India. >> Spun off of what they've done there, it's like we need some rallying cries in today's day and age to solve some of these big day and age. Is that AI? Where are some of the big areas that you see tech needing to drive forward in the next decade? >> I think the big area's going to be around decentralization, giving individuals more empowerment. We've got large, big tech companies, that are, I'd say, imbalanced. We start companies right away, building monopolies on day one, and we don't open up those markets. And the question is, how do we create a level playing field for the individual to be to compete, to bring a new idea, and to innovate, if that's continuously stifled by big technology companies without an opportunity, we're in trouble. And so that starts by making data a property right, to the personal data. It starts by also creating marketplaces for that data, and those marketplaces have to have regulations, similar to capital market flows. The way treat exchanges, we treat marketplaces, we need to do the same thing with the way we do with data, and then the third piece, there has to be some level of a tax, that goes to all these data economies, so that they can fund the infrastructure and the watch dogs that are there. Now this is coming from a free market, I'm a free market capitalist, okay? I can't stand regulation, but I also realize that it's so important that we have a fair market. >> But do you, we know so much about how Americans are so much more cavalier about their privacy than even Europeans, what will it take to galvanize Americans to care about those little crumbs that they're leaving on the internet, that is the data that you say should be a property right, that we should be paid for? >> I think it's going to start with companies actually take, and do the right thing, where they actually give them that opportunity to monetize that information. >> Will they do that? >> I think the new set of startups are starting to do that, because they're looking at the risk that's being posed, at Facebook and Google and Amazon, on the anti-trust, DOJ, FCC, they're all coming in at the same time, the FTC, they're all wondering, do we break these companies up or not? The short answer is, I don't think they're going to, because we're competing with China, and when you're looking at that scale of data, where Amazon's transactions are only 1/10 of Ali Baba's? That's huge. So the consolidation has to happen, but we need to create a layer that actually democratizes and creates a fair trading play. >> And those startups, you think, can compete with established players? >> I think once we set the roles, and the ground rules, I think people are going to be able to do that, but once you free that data, what are we competing on now? You have to pay for my consent, you have to earn my business, you can't trade it for free, or just say, "Hey look, you are the product." That changes everything. >> Rebecca: Yeah, that's a good point. >> Ray, I know you spend a lot of time talking to, and giving advice to some of the leaders in technology, you're welcome to get into some specifics about Nutanix, or some of the cloud players, but what are some of the key themes, what are people getting right, and what are they still doing wrong? >> Okay, so theme number one, this is going to be a multicloud hybrid world for a long time. Anybody that's bucking the multicloud trend, they've missed the point, right? Because we want portability in data, there's only two or three players in every single market, if I can't move my data, my workloads, and my IO in and out, then you've actually created vendor lock-in from hell. And I think customers are going to protest against that. The second one, and you guys are probably following this trend a lot, is really about AI ethics and design principles for AI. So what is ethical AI? We've got five things that are important: The first one is make sure it's transparent. See the algorithms, see what they write. Second one, make sure it's explainable. Hey, bias is not a bad thing, so if I'm discriminating against redheads, with, left-handed, and that happened to like, I don't know, Oracle, fine. But, if that was unintended, and you're discriminating against that, then we have to get rid of that, right? And so we have to figure out how to reduce that kind of bias, if it's unwanted bias. If you discover that you're discriminating, and not being inclusive, you've got to make sure that you address that. So then the next part is, it's got to be reversible. And once you have that reversibility, we also make sure that we can train these systems over time. And then the last piece is, Musk could be right! Musk could be right, the machines might take over, but if you insert a human at the beginning of the process, and at the end of the process, you won't get taken over. >> I want to hear about what the future of work looks like for Ray Wang. You are on the road constantly, you are (laughs) you are moving your data from one place, you are everywhere, all the time. So what do you have on next, what's exciting you about your professional life? >> I think the challenge's that we are living in a world where there's too much information, too much content. And you guys say this all the time, right? Separating the signal from the noise. And people are willing to pay for that signal. But that is a very very tough job, right? It's about the analysis, the insights, and when you have that, people don't want to read through your reports. They don't want to watch through the videos. They just want to call you up and say, "Hey, what's going on?" And get the short version of it. And that's what's making it very interesting, because you would expect this would be in a chat bot, it'd be in a robo advisor, doesn't work that way. People still want the human connection, especially given all that data out there, they want the analysis and insights that you guys provide, that's very very important, but even more important right now, it's really about getting back to those relationships. I think people are very careful about the relationships they're keeping, they're also curating those relationships, and coming back to spending more time. And so we're seeing a lot more of in-person meetings, in-person events, very very small, curated conversations, and I think that's coming back. I mean that's why we do our conference every year, as well, we try to keep 200 to 300 people intimately together. >> Those human connections, not going away. (laughs) >> Nope, not going away, in an automated, AI, digital world! This is our post-digital future. >> That's excellent. Well Ray, thanks you so much for coming on theCUBE, it's always so much fun to talk to you. >> Hey, thanks a lot. >> High energy guy (laughs). >> Low energy. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will have more from the Bella Center at Nutanix.NEXT coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019 Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co host, Stu Miniman. We're joined by two guests this segment. We have Mayur Shah. He is the Global Head, Data Center and Software Defined Everything SDx at Wipro. Thank you for coming on the show. >> Thank you. >> And Thenu Kittappa, Director GSI Sales at Nutanix. Thank you so much. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we're talking today about fluid ITs. Wipro, of course, is an Indian multinational corporation based in Bangalore. You gave us a talk yesterday here at Nutanix .NEXT. Tell our viewers a little bit about how you view fluid IT. >> Sure. So we believe that the kind of transition the industry is going through, the pressure businesses are getting in terms of having their offering aligned to the customer expectations, they're digital natives, and so and so forth have digital transformations. They are also under tremendous pressure of innovating much faster than they used to do before. And the same pressure has been put back to the IT. How IT support that kind of changes and agility, which business would need in general. We believe that now, previously we used to have a plan for five years and a roadmap and we used to forecast what kind of architecture mission may end. But now it's time for us to give that back to business. There are a lot of uncertainties and how we can handle those uncertainties that's main reason why we are thinking little out of box in terms of getting things fluid. >> Mayur, I like that comment because part of the transition used to be I bought a product and I thought about how many years did I depreciate that product for? So I want to get your, what are you seeing and how is it impacting your customers? Nutanix talks about building experiences, so are they meeting that goal? How is that helping with both what you're doing and ultimately your end customers? >> So, what we believe is as you rightly say the end user customer's experience, business agility, and their competitiveness for customers at the prime, right? So the way we are now aligning our offerings, aligning to customer needs, changing our models of measurement from SLS to business level BLS. Those are the things which we are doing for aligning to the businesses and ensuring that they benefit in terms of many of our offering are now experience-driven. So SLS and BLS are also experience-driven, so we in our virtual desk offering, we offer the customers based on the experience problem, the penalties are assigned. So we proactively manage the end user experience without them even knowing it. So those are the few examples. >> Thenu, I have to imagine this is a big piece of your job is the traditional channel used to be how do we get beyond selling boxes, selling services, consulting and everything, but the SI is more about that whole experience. >> It's actually a whole different experience. It's been a great show for us from that perspective. We have a lot of our partners starting up, giving us the support we need from the SI community. Wipro was a sponsor, so it's been great. And to be honest, that's exactly what we're trying to do with SIs here. We're taking the solution and outcome based approach. Let's talk to the customer, what their business needs are. Let's see what kind of solutions we build to fit that. It's not just Nutanix. How does Nutanix work with HPE? How does Nutanix work with the networking, SDN? Let's give them an outcome-based solution. And let's support it with the right level of experience. So essentially, just in time to market is the goal that we're trying to achieve with partners like Wipro. >> Thenu, can you give us some examples of what, the kinds of conversations that you're having and then how it influences you when you go back to your company and you go back to Nutanix and you are then in the war room trying to figure out what kind of next new architectures and designs you can provide. >> So normally when we work with customers and with GSIs, you start with the core problem of what are you trying to solve over here, right? You have a five year plan. Are you trying to grow to a certain extent? Are you looking for your VDI to cater a certain security needs or certain financial needs? And so, then, it comes down to what is the business requirement here? Is it scalability? Is it reliability? Is it security? Is it financial modeling? You might be sitting with a customer who says, this is a great option, but I don't have budget to do this. I want to transform myself to the next level of technology, but I don't have a budget. And when we have these joint customer conversations with partners like Wipro, they say, great, let's offer a solution. And here, by solution, we not only cater to the technology, but we're also looking at where you need to end up in five years, what kind of business models and commercial models we can do to support you and what are the right products we can bring to you so that you only concern yourself with the outcome. You don't care about the infrastructure stack underneath it. Let's make everything invisible for you. But they just take our invisible story to a whole different level. >> Mayur, when I think about the transformations that customers are going through, the education and training is often a big piece of that. Where does that fit in to what you're doing, what services Wipro offers, education there, and how much of it does the simplicity of Nutanix involve in that? >> It's a great questions. So what we actually, and it helps us a lot, when we bring in the complex technologies for our end customers, they also have the owners and they need to get appreciative of what we are offering. With Nutanix's simplicity it's all given. They know that things work and things work super simple. Now whatever we bring on top of that, that's where it adds a lot of value without missing too much of time for enabling our end customers, and that gives outcome. So we are, as a whole, as a solution, we are able to give that outcome confidence and experience to customers. >> So what kinds of conversations are you having at this conference, in terms of what kinds of learnings are going on? You're talking to fellow customers of Nutanix and able to say hey, what you're doing over there, maybe we could try something similar at Wipro. >> Yeah, so one good part what I've seen people are using platform for variety of use cases, variety of business applications. Now we at Wipro, we have mastered some of them, but not all of them. But we see a lot of customers speaking about how they are using massive scale for HyperCloud, for instance. They are using it for databases, applications, mission critical applications, and we feel now it's time for us to branch out into that. >> I'd actually like to add to that. All the conversations we've had is amazing with customers. You think you built a product to meet x use cases, and then the customer comes back and says, you guys did great with being on these X use cases, but guess what? I found out this X plus 1 use case, and it's perfect. And that is what we take back and say, okay, is there a market around this, which we can then commercialize and make it easy to consume? >> What would you say, so you're based in San Jose, and you've been with Nutanix for five years now. What would you say are some of the differences that you've seen from US customers versus here we are in Copenhagen, European customers, and also Indian customers? >> Oh, that's a difficult questions. You're really putting me in a difficult position here. But in general, I would, you know, our European customers look to innovation, but they also look to baked in solutions, and more tighter integration and collaboration with partners. The US customers want to be on the cutting edge of technology. They're very high risk-takers, so when you're defining a solution and a model that works for them, it's a completely different ball game in terms of how much risk they are willing to take, what price point they want to do, and then they're also very, very particular about I want Vendor A, B, and C to work together. Go make it happen. With a lot of the Indian and the Asian customers, and even our European customers, they're more SLA based. Mayur, what do you think? >> Absolutely. I think we see a clear, here in this area of Europe, they are much mature, the second and third level of outsourcing people. They are aware of SLAs, they are aware of the services. They expect a little more than what we do and we, let's say if you compare back to India and US in some time, they are the first time or second time outsourcers, but here's the difference, they clearly wonder about the outcome. >> Mayur, the announcements that we've had this week. Are there anything that you're looking to take back to your customers, or anything that either announced or some of the previews they've been giving that you're especially excited about? >> Sure. So I think there's a great timing. I was just talking last night. We are doing investments, innovation investments for three years, it's a three years plan. And exactly the synergies so well. The announcement, what we have heard here are kind of synergizing what we are doing in the road map. For example, we and the fluid IT what she told, is all about delivering those next generation future-proof architecture, leveraging those announcements. The era, we are working on databases as always, which covers the mission-critical application, and things in a much advanced way. We believe in our road map here, we calling it a service theater, which actually delivers the experience and outcome. So there are synergies they talked about insights. And we are talking about delivering those real time, predictable stuff, based on, and our vision is to give intent with everything, so you have to just define the intent and things will fall in place. So there are a lot of synergies and we definitely take back few of them, which is databases as a service, insights, IOTA, Edge, a few key things we will take from here. And of course the HyperCloud, the AWS migration. >> Well, Mayur's being very, very humble here. One of the announcements that we did make over here at the conference was Wipro has standardized with Nutanix on their virtual desk solution and we're going back to both our customers, their customers, and our field with this offering. So the virtual desk is their own IP. They've done very well in the past with virtual desk, but as they are looking to do more standardization, get in to the next generation solutions, we worked very closely with them to build a Nutanix and HPE-based stack with Centrix, to offer this as a turnkey solution, which they've already done, but with better economics and time to market. >> And do you see that as sort of the future? >> Yes. That pretty much becomes a fundamental building block based on which almost all of our other solutions are going to to get built. The next one coming up will be database as a service, similar constructs. How do you make database consumption and Ops transfer to the end user? Followed by IoT, now IoT is a real different ball game because everything is customized. A lot of customers like to go dabble in it, but at the end of the day you need to build a solution around it. >> Thenu, and actually one of the questions we've had is we look as Nutanix moves beyond just infrastructure software to some of the application software, seems that the GSIs would be a critical player for building services. >> Yes! We actually have this really funky graph, verticals, base our AoS, where do GSIs fit in. It's the solution and pulling everything together, and making it more of a customer business case based offering, as opposed to a customer piecing itself. It's becoming a big ask with G2Ks, right? They're not doing large RFPs, they're actually doing very business-based SLAs, and now the control lies with the business owners within large customers. So it fits very well with our story. >> Excellent. Well, thank you so much Thenu and Mayur. Thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, our pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Our pleasure. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .Next coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat electronic music)

(Upbeat Techno Music) >> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's theCUBE! Covering Nutatnix.Next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.Next. We are here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, alongside of Stu Miniman, the analyst for theCUBE. We have two guests for this segment. We have Manoj Agarwal. He is the SVP of Engineering at Nutanix. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you Rebecca. That's good. >> And Gil Haberman. He is the Senior Director of Product Marketing at Nutanix. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me. So, our topic today is Xi Clusters. These were announced at Anaheim, at .Next back in Anaheim. Gil, why don't we start with you. Describe the business problems you were hearing from customers and how these Xi Clusters are designed to help solve them. >> Gil: Sure, first thanks for inviting me. I'm a big fan of theCUBE. It's so great to be here. To your question, at Nutanix, we've been working with customers on the vision of Hybrid Cloud for a number of years now. And the different challenges have evolved over time. Initially, there were pockets of public cloud adoption where customers wanted to simply find a way to operate across multiple clouds. But today, the challenges are different. Now, as customers are looking to adopt business critical applications that span private and public, bursting and migrating applications, there's a strong need for consistency across environments. And we gear around consistency around 3 aspects. The first is infrastructure. The second is operations. And the third is the consumption model itself. From an individual perspective, what we keep hearing is that the same VMs and applications must be able to work across environments, without significant replatforming or retooling. From an operation's perspective, cloud engineers truly need a way to utilize the same practices, integrations, in work that they have done on their applications for many years, across multiple clouds. So there's a need to sustain the same practices across these multiple clouds. And finally from a consumption model perspective, there's a need to have a platform that drives the same level of consistency in terms of licensing and software across different environments. And for that, we at Nutanix have to evolve to empower operators to be able to address all of these needs of consistency across private and public. >> Now, I would like to add something to it. You just think about three years ago. The entire world was talking about "Everything is going to be public cloud." And very soon, all these CIOs also realized that it's not going to be just public cloud or just private cloud. It's going to be Hybrid. And we ran a survey with 2,700 IT professionals who participated in the survey, and what we learned mainly 91% of them, they said hybrid is ideal. And the second thing that was not also a surprising thing was 94% of them, they said the app migration or app mobility is going to be the key. And then we look at that option like "How are you going to adopt?" And that was also strikingly similar, like what we see currently maybe 18% or so, that they are into the hybrid world and getting onto close to 41% or so in the next 24 months. >> Yeah, but Manoj, I'm glad you brought that up. When I talk to users, the thing that they're concerned the most about are their applications% and their data. And in IT forever, migrations have been a challenging thing to do and it was usually, you set up a migration and it takes you weeks or months to do it. Today, migrations aren't even going to be even a one time thing. If I'm moving from one cloud to another, if I'm moving from private to public, or even public to private. I need to have some flexibility to what I'm building. How has that informed how you're building your architectural designs? >> That's a great point. In fact, we always feel that architecture matters, and why the fundamental technologies that we are building should help. Two things that I'll say. One is the data replication technologies that we have built and strengthened over time. Plus the second thing is the network. If you get the network right, then you are very slowly there. And we had been reflecting on the data side, you know. 10 years of journey and data replication technologies like we have built. Networking we have been very hard at work on that front also in the last three years or so, with the building of Xi Cloud. We'll see and hear more and more, especially in the context of Xi Cluster. What you see is that we have done the ready integration with AWS ETCs. Thereby first of all all the services that exist in AWS. It's available to the customers with their app, running on XI Clusters without changing anything there. >> This is a competitive market so let's talk about differentiation. How do you see the product as completely different from your rivals and then how are you positioning it to your customers? >> Yeah. I'll go back to again the same thing. Architecture matters. We were not the first ones to go out with a hybrid converse like in 2013. There were a lot of competitive solutions that existed at the time. But we took our time. We wanted to make sure that we do it right. We do provide choice to our customers. That's where we matter. As we are building out solutions, again going back to the four principles. Applications sort of require change. You don't require an IPO presence to change, so when we are building the solution, we are making sure if you want to pay for private cloud, on-prem our service provider. Or you want a public cloud. Any of the big cloud players or this new cloud, that you have a common architecture underneath. You have the same management plain with the prism. You can really orchestrate, and manage the entire infrastructure. You have the flexibility in terms of the networking. Other services that you want to go and use, you have the choice of wahtever platform also. Like something that we don't want you to go and change if you don't need a change. Lastly, I would say, on the business side, we do want to give the smarty cloud world the flexibility for the customers to bring a cloud of their choice and if they want to switch, they should be able to switch with one click also. >> Yeah. Gil, I'm wondering if you can actually explain to our audience one of the challenges here is deploying unbared metal is not something that anybody can just do on the public clouds. For AWS, the first solution was actually VM ware on AWS. They had to develop that but they're now opening that to be able to use. Can you walk us through where we are with the cloud providers and that's I think part of the reason why this isn't yet generally available. Indeed, AWS has been the first to open bare metal and this is really the path for us at Nutanix to make clouds invisible as well. We worked with a number of platforms on Prem and now we want to extend that to public cloud and having an ability to actually access bare metal is the first step in doing so. Beyond that, what we've done is what we believe is the hard work of making things very simple to drive customer delight. And so what we've done is integrate into AWS rather than just running on top of AWS, inside existing accounts and VPCs of customers and the outcome has benefits on both technology and business perspective. From the technology perspective, cloud operators can see all bare metal as well as cloud native services in one place, one inventory. And we believe that this type of topology will provide better performance. And then on the business side, this allows us to do a couple of things. The first, if you are an AWS user like most of our customers, they can use AWS credits for that bare metal infrastructure. At Nutanix, we are now able to evolve our services to provide hybrid licenses, so our licenses would eventually be portable. And so you see how we are gradually building towards this portability across multiple clouds, AWS being the first cloud. >> Yeah, it's great to see Nutanix- We've seen a few other companies moving towards that model because if I'm software and truly agnostic, you should be able to have it across those environments. I believe Solidfire a couple of years ago started doing some of the things; A couple other companies. So the X in AWS sounds like it will be first. We know Google has been the partner of Nutanix for a while. Could you just give us where are we with Google and Azure? Kind of to round out the big three. >> Sure, so we have started to work with AWS and we have announced early access now inviting customers to sign up with us to get access. We are also actively working with Azure to figure out how to together bring better bare metal services and the type of software on top of that. And of course, we believe that other cloud vendors are going to open this up as well and Google Cloud being a close partner of ours is an important part of that strategy as well. >> And we are doing something with Google already as you know. We have integrated the entire stack using their nested vertilization technologies, like running on their vertilization the HB which is nested. Today, we run a lot of our customers prospect they run. The test, our experience the entire solution on Google test prime. We have brought out more than a thousand users every month, that they access it. So it's a journey, like when they have the full bare metal, you can see a lot more but we are very engaged with them. >> I want to talk about the future now and have you looked into your crystal ball a bit, 6, 10, years from now. What do you see- This is such a fast changing environment but how do you see the cloud evolving and then how do you see Nutanix? What role does Nutanix play? >> Last 10 years, it was all about how we bring public cloud into the private cloud, right? Next 5, 10 years when you think about it is all how do we really make it hybrid. The experience that what customers have come to expect in the last 10 years. You can go and pick any kind of platform on which you want to run the same stack. You won't need to worry about it. Something similar that needs to happen and the underlying architecture of technology which will go and drive that is going to be data mobility, same control plane that can go and extend this smarty cloud. This story by the way resonates very very well with the customers because it's not easy to get your IT for support, to get trained on different cloud technologies also because the talent things cost there. And if you can go and teach them one interface and have them run with the choice of infrastructure or the back form or the cloud, that's what we think we can make a huge difference for the customers. >> Yeah, so I want to make sure I understand when talking about your hybrid or multicloud strategy, we've got Xi Clusters help you get in and matches what you have on sight. Have you had a conversation about Kubernetes yet? Where does Carbon which is the Nutanix Kubernetes fit into this overall discussion? Is that just part of the platform that gets baked in and therefore we don't need to talk about it or am I missing a piece? >> That's a great question because the beauty of what we're talking about is that we bring the entire software and the entire platform with us wherever we go. Part of that stack is carbon and calm. We need the ability to have both traditional applications alongside modern applications with Kubernetes. Even hybrid applications that include some front end that might be containerized, maybe back end that is not yet containerized. And all that, everything that we've been doing on-prem, can now be moved into any other public cloud we provide. >> It's part of the compute, right? You got the VMs, now you got the containers. It's part of the backbone. >> So yeah, we've heard from some people say that Kubernetes is just the new containerized compute. We don't need to talk about it and I'm okay with that, because it's just in there. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Excellent. Well Gil and Manoj, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Manoj: Thanks so much for hosting us. >> Gil: Thanks for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of .Next. (Techno outro plays)

>> Hey welcome back to everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studio for a CUBE conversation. The crazy conference schedule is just about ready to break over our heads, but we still have a little time to do CUBE conversations before we hit the road. But one show we're doing this summer that we've never done before is Kubecon Cloud Native Con, I got to get all the words. It used to be Cloud Native, now Kubecon's up front. But we're going to go to the European show first time ever. It's May 2nd through 4th at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. We're really excited to go 'cause obviously a ton of activity around containers and Kubecon and Kubernetes, and we're excited to have a little preview of the show with two folks. We've got Wendy Cartee, she is the Senior Director Cloud Native Applications Marketing for VMWare. Welcome. >> Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. >> And also giving us a little preview on her keynote, maybe we can get something out of her, I don't know, Aparna Sinha, she is a Group Product Manager for Kubernetes and Google's Kubernete Engine at Google, long title. Just see the Kubernete shirt, that's all we need to see. Welcome. >> Thank you. Glad to be here. >> Absolutely. So for the folks that have not been to Kubecon before, let's go through some of the basics. How big is it? Who can they expect to be there? Do you have the fancy letter for them to give to their boss to get out of work for a week? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Give us the basics. >> This is going to be our biggest event in Europe yet. So we're expecting actually four thousand plus people. We expect that it'll be sold out. So, folks should register early. And who should go? Actually tends to be a mix of developers who want to contribute to the project as well as users. I think in Austin, which was our last conference, there was about a 50/50 mix of folks that were using Kubernetes. So it's a really great place to meet others that are using the software. >> Are there a couple of new themes this year? Or is just just kind of generic training and moving the platform along? Or are there some big announcements that people can expect? >> Yeah, I expect some big announcements. And I expect that there'll be a couple of themes around security, around Serverless, that's a major area, and around developer experience, and of course machine learning. So those are some of the things that are top of mind for the community. >> And probably Service Mesh will be another round of hot topics this year as well. >> Which one? >> Service Mesh. >> Jeff: What is that? >> It's a project that is a part of CNCF around Envoy. And it's essentially the notion of having a stack of services that provide everything from connectivity to API access for microservices. >> I ask because we had an old customer of Service Mesh saying they got bought by some services company... >> Yeah, this is, I think the term is an old term, so obviously when you start using Kubernetes it's really around breaking down your applications and having microservices. You get a proliferation of microservices. Service Mesh essentially enables you to manage those, so set up security and communication between those services and then manage them at scale, so that's really what a Service Mesh is. And Envoy is at the heart of that. And then there's a project called Istio. There will definitely be, and there was a lot of discussion around that at Kubecon in Austin. And they'll be some training before the conference this time. There are several co-located events. There'll be some training beforehand. So for folks that want to learn, they're new to Kubernetes, they're new to the concept of Service Mesh, I would recommend coming a day early or two days early, 30th and 1st, there's a number of different workshops. >> It's pretty amazing just the growth and the momentum of containers and Serverless, and obviously Docker kind of came out of nowhere a couple three or four years ago. And then Kubernetes really kind of seemed to jump on the scene in terms of at least me paying attention, probably a couple two, three years ago. And it's phenomenal. And even only just to check it out, Google's putting on all these little development workshops. This one was at Santa Clara Convention Center probably a month ago that I went down. And the place was packed, packed. And it was, get out your laptop, get out your notes, and let's start going through and developing applications and really learning. I mean, why does this momentum continue to grow so strongly? >> From what we see, we have enterprises that are in the journey of digital, you're kind of going on the digital transformation. >> Jeff: Right. >> And to drive that faster business model they need technologies like Cloud Native to help them with faster development, to help them with driving new innovations in their application, and I think that that's what we see in the Kubernetes community. I think we see developers and contributors coming to conferences like Kubecon, especially to really learn from each other and find out what are some of the latest innovations in this space and how they can bring that back into their companies to drive faster development, and at the end of it, essentially driving better services, better experience for their end users as well. >> And it's really been interesting watching the VMWare story particularly, because you know people were a little confused when the merger happened with Dell and EMC and how was that going to affect (mumbles) and VMWare, and yet, the ecosystem is super vibrant. We do VMworld every single year. It's one of our biggest shows. The thing is packed with a really excited ecosystem, obviously you guys made big moves with Amazon last year. You're making moves with Google and Kubernetes, and it was funny. People were concerned a couple years. It's almost this rebirth of what's going on at VMworld and this adoption of really (mumbles) technology as well as open source technologies. Has the culture changed inside? Is this something that you guys figured you have to do or was it always there under the covers and maybe we just weren't paying enough attention? >> Yeah, I think it was always there. I think we are very close to the transformation and the journey that our customers are on. And obviously the customers themselves have a full stack solution deployed in their environment today. Many of them are using vSphere or vSan or NSX, vRealize Portfolio to build their business, and they're looking at how to transform and add containers as another layer on top of their software defined data center, to essentially breathe some of these newer technologies into their environment as well. >> Yeah, and Aparna, Google's been sharing open source stuff for a while. Even back to early Hadoop, Hadoop days. So, as big and powerful as a company that it is and as much as scale is such an important piece of that competitive advantage, it's wild that you guys are opening things up and really embracing an open source developer kind of ethos to acknowledge. As smart as you are, as big as you are, as much power as you have, you don't have all the smartest people inside the four walls of Google. Well, Google has always contributed to open source. I think we have a very long and rich history of sharing software and, you know, really doing joint development. So Android is an open source, Chrome, Chromium is open source. TensorFlow is open source. And Kubernetes really is, I think, different in that sense in that there is a thriving community around it and Google's been very, very active, and I've been very active personally, in developing that community and engaging in the project. And I think that goes back to what you were saying about the meetups. There are several meetups all around, so it's not just in one location. I think globally. And I think the reason it's so diverse and so many people are involved is because it does lead to, you know, Kubernetes enables a benefit that is meaningful in enterprises, large and small, where you can start rolling out applications multiple times a day. And it just gives developers that productivity. It's very accessible. And over the years, especially as the project has matured, it has become, it's like my daughter or my son can go and they can use it. It's really easy to use. So it's not hard to pick up either. >> And it's also interesting because we do a lot of shows, as you know, theCUBE goes to a ton of shows, and everybody wants the attention of developer if they haven't had (mumbles) everybody's got a developer track a developer this, a developer that. Everybody wants to get to developers. It's very competitive. As a developer you have a lot of options of where you want to spend your time. But really, especially Google, kind of comes at it from, and always has, development first. Right? It's kind of developer first. So I'm curious, you talked about the community that's going to be gathered in Denmark when you've got contributors as well as users and contributors all kind of blended together. Not really forced together, but coming together around this universal gravity that is Kubernetes. What is that enable that you don't get if you're traditionally either a developer show or kind of a user show? >> Yes, I think that's really important and one of the beautiful things about open source, is that you get what you see. And you can actually change it and own it and it's not some other entity that owns it. So we'll have many companies presenting, so Bookings.com, Spotify, New York Times, Ebay, Lyft. These are all companies that are using Kubernetes and also contributing to Kubernetes. And so it's a nice virtual cycle. And what you get from that is you're in touch, you're in constant touch with your users. So a lot of them actually use Google Kubernetes Engine, and I know what they're looking for. And so we can then shape the project and shape the product accordingly. >> Then the other question I always think is interesting when you're working with open source projects and contributors, right? A lot of times it's a big part of whom they are, especially if they're a good contributor. You know, it's part of their identity, it's part of the way they connect with their community, but they got to get work done for the company, too. So in terms of kind of managing in the development world with contributing people, people contributing to open source projects as well as you got to get our work done that we're working on, too. How do you manage that? How is kind of best practices for having a vibrant open source contributing staff that's also being very productive in getting their day job done? >> I think engineers love to learn from other engineers and developers, and I think that community is the reason why they come. And it's not only our conferences when everybody gets together at a conference like Kubecon, but there's a tremendous amount of activity day to day offline over conference calls like Zoom and, you know I'm on some of the calls that Aparna is on and its amazing. You have people from all over the world, developers from everywhere, who will meet on a weekly basis, and they'll Slack each other. And I think that that sense of community, that sharing of information and really learning some of the best practices and learning what others have done is why people come, and it's great to have a conference like Kubecon where people can finally come together and meet in person and just kind of enjoy each other's presence and communicate face to face, and really connect in person. We're very excited about Kubecon and kind of being part of that energy, that enthusiasm that is in the community. >> It's interesting, the Slack, the kind of cross-enterprise Slack phenomenon, which I hadn't really been exposed to until a couple of projects we got involved with, and I got invited into these other companies' Slack, which I didn't really know that that was a thing to open up that wall in between the two companies and enable a very similar type of interaction and engagement that I have with my peers inside the walls as I do now with my peers outside the walls. So that's a pretty interesting twist in enabling these tools to build community outside of your own company. >> Yes, it is, and Slack is a great tool for that. But even aside from the tooling, I think that the pace of software innovation is very, very fast these days. And if you stay within the walls of your company you miss out on so much innovation that is available, and I totally agree with Wendy. Contributors and developers in general, they like to know what's next. And they like to contribute to what's next. And you said you went to some of the meetups, so you can sort of see that you're actually benefiting from that, from both contributing as well as from meeting with and absorbing what others are doing. You're directly benefiting your company, you're directly benefiting in your own job because you're innovating. >> So before we let you go, any particular session or something is happening at the show in Denmark that either you're super excited about or maybe is a little bit kind of flying underneath the radar that people should be aware of that maybe they didn't think to go to that type of session. >> Well I think there are a variety of excellent sessions at the Kubecon that's coming up. There are user topics. Arpana talked about some of the companies that will be there to share their experience. I've seen talks about communities and contributors and how they can contribute and build the community. I think there are SIG updates that I think would be very informative. And I also think that there are a lot of announcements that will be made at the event as well. I think that's exciting for everybody to see the new innovations that's coming out that impact the community, the users, and in general the ecosystem as well. >> Aparna? >> Yeah, yeah, so if I were to lay it out, I mean definitely folks should register early 'cause it's going to sell out. There were a thousand plus submissions and a 125 talks have been accepted. There are 31 Google talks. There's all manner of content. I would suggest users go a little bit early if they want to get the hands-on training in the workshops. And then as Wendy mentioned, I think on May 2nd there's a contributor summit, which is actually, that's the thing that's flying under the radar. It's a free event, and if you want to learn how to contribute to Kubernetes, that's where a lot of the training will be. And the SIGs, the special interest groups, in the community, each of them will be giving an introduction to what they do. So it's a really good event to meet maintainers, meet contributors, become one yourself. And then in terms of the agenda, I think I mentioned the topics. I'm giving a keynote. I think I'm giving the opening keynote there. It'll be about developer experience, because that's a big deal that we're working on in Kubernetes, and I think there's many new innovations in improving the developer experience with Kubernetes. I'll also be giving an overall project update. And then some of the other keynotes, there's a keynote on KubeFlow, which is a machine learning framework on top of Kubernetes. And then there's a series of talks on security and how to run securely in containers. >> All right, well I think we're almost ready. We got to register, we got to study up, and make a couple contributions before we're headin' over there, right? >> Absolutely. >> All right, Wendy, Aparna, thanks for taking a few minutes and look forward to seeing you across the pond in a month or so. It's May 2nd through 4th in Denmark at the Bella Center, Copenhagen, Denmark. Thanks again for stopping by. >> Wendy: Thank you. >> Aparna: Thank you. >> All right, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE from Palo Alto, we'll see you next time. Thanks for watchin'.