(bright music) >> Hey everyone, welcome to this CUBE conversation featuring Ahana, I'm your host Lisa Martin. I've got two guests here with me today. Steven Mih joins us, the Presto Foundation governing board member, co-founder and CEO of Ahana, and Girish Baliga Presto Foundation governing board chair and senior engineering manager at Uber. Guys thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> So Steven we're going to dig into and unpack Presto in the next few minutes or so, but Steven let's go ahead and start with you. Talk to us about some of the challenges with the open data lake house market. What are some of those key challenges that organizations are facing? >> Yeah, just pulling up the slide you know, what we see is that many organizations are dealing with a lot more data and very different data types and putting that all into, traditionally as the data warehouse, which has been the workhorse for BI and analytics traditionally, it becomes very, very expensive, and there's a lot of lock in associated with that. And so what's happening is that people are putting the data semistructured and unstructured data for example, in cloud data lakes or other data lakes, and they find that they can query directly with a SQL query engine like Presto. And that lets you have a much more approach to dealing with getting insights out of your data. And that's what this is all about, and that's why companies are moving to a modern architecture. Girish maybe you can share some of your thoughts on how Uber uses Presto for this. >> Yeah, at Uber we use Presto in our internal deployments. So at Uber we have our own data centers, we store data locally in our data centers, but we have made the conscious choice to go with an open data stack. Our entire data stack is built around open source technologies like Hadoop, Hive, Spark and Presto. And so Presto is an invaluable engine that is able to connect to all these different storage and data formats and allow us to have a single entry point for our users, to run their SQL engines and get insights rather quickly compared to some of the other engines that we have at Uber. >> So let's talk a little bit about Presto so that the audience gets a good overview of that. Steven starting with you, you talked about the challenges of the traditional data warehouse application. Talk to us about why Presto was founded the open, the project, give us that background information if you will. >> Absolutely, so Presto was originally developed out of the biggest hyperscaler out there which is Facebook now known as Meta. And they donated that project to the, and open sourced it and donated it to the Linux Foundation. And so Presto is a SQL query engine, it's a storage SQL query engine, that runs directly on open data lakes, so you can put your data into open formats like 4K or C, and get insights directly from that at a very good price performance ratio. The Presto Foundation of which Girish and I are part of, we're all working together as a consortium of companies that all want to see Presto continue to get bigger and bigger. Kind of like Kubernetes has a, has an organization called CNCF, Presto has Presto Foundation all under the umbrella of the Linux Foundation. And so there's a lot of exciting things that are coming on the roadmap that make Presto very unique. You know, RaptorX is a multilevel caching system that it's been fantastic, Aria optimizations are another area, we Ahana have developed some security features with donating the integrations with Apache Ranger and that's the type of things that we do to help the community. But maybe Girish can talk about some of the exciting items on the roadmap that you're looking forward to. >> Absolutely, I think from Uber's point of view just a sheer scale of data and our volume of query traffic. So we run about half a million Presto queries a day, right? And we have thousands of machines in our Presto deployments. So at that scale in addition to functionality you really want a system that can handle traffic reliably, that can scale, and that is backed by a strong community which guarantees that if you pull in the new version of Presto, you won't break anything, right? So all of those things are very important to us. So I think that's where we are relying on our partners particularly folks like Facebook and Twitter and Ahana to build and maintain this ecosystem that gives us those guarantees. So that is on the reliability front, but on the roadmap side we are also excited to see where Presto is extending. So in addition to the projects that Steven talked about, we are also looking at things like Presto and Spark, right? So take the Presto SQL and run it as a Spark job for instance, or running Presto on real-time analytics applications something that we built and contributed from Uber side. So we are all taking it in very different directions, we all have different use cases to support, and that's the exciting thing about the foundation. That it allows us all to work together to get Presto to a bigger and better and more flexible engine. >> You guys mentioned Facebook and I saw on the slide I think Twitter as well. Talk to me about some of the organizations that are leveraging the Presto engine and some of the business benefits. I think Steve you talked about insights, Steven obviously being able to get insights from data is critical for every business these days. >> Yeah, a major, major use case is finding the ad hoc and interactive queries, and being able to drive insights from doing so. And so, as I mentioned there's so much data that's being generated and stored, and to be able to query that data in place, at a, with very, very high performance, meaning that you can get answers back in seconds of time. That lets you have the interactive ability to drill into data and innovate your business. And so this is fantastic because it's been developed at hyperscalers like Uber that allow you to have open source technology, pick that up, and just download it right from prestodb.io, and then start to run with this and join the community. I think from an open source perspective this project under the governance of Linux Foundation gives you the confidence that it's fully transparent and you'll never see any licensing changes by the Linux Foundation charter. And therefore that means the technology remains free forever without later on limitations occurring, which then would perhaps favor commercialization of any one vendor. That's not the case. So maybe Girish your thoughts on how we've been able to attract industry giants to collaborate, to innovate further, and your thoughts on that. >> Yeah, so of the interesting I've seen in the space is that there is a bifurcation of companies in this ecosystem. So there are these large internet scale companies like Facebook, and Uber, and Twitter, which basically want to use something like Presto for their internal use cases. And then there is the second set of companies, enterprise companies like Ahana which basically wanted to take Presto and provide it as a service for other companies to use as an alternative to things like Snowflake and other systems right? So, and the foundation is a great place for both sets of companies to come together and work. The internet scale companies bring in the scale, the reliability, the different kind of ways in which you can challenge the system, optimize it, and so forth, and then companies like Ahana bring in the flexibility and the extensibility. So you can work with different clouds, different storage formats, different engines, and I think it's a great partnership that we can see happening primarily through the foundational spaces. Which you would be hard pressed to find in a single vendor or a, you know, a single-source system that is there on the market today. >> How long ago was the Presto Foundation initiated? >> It's been over three years now and it's been going strong, we're over a dozen members and it's open to everyone. And it's all governed like the Linux Foundation so we use best practices from that and you can just check it out at prestodb.io where you can get the software, or you can hear about how to join the foundation. So it includes members like Intel, and HPE as well, and we're really excited for new members to come, and contribute in and participate. >> Sounds like you've got good momentum there in the foundation. Steven talk a little bit about the last two years. Have you seen the acceleration in use cases in the number of users as we've been in such an interesting environment where the need for real-time insights is essential for every business initially a few couple of years ago to survive but now to be, to really thrive, is it, have you seen the acceleration in Presto in that timeframe? >> Absolutely, we see there's acceleration of being more data-driven and especially moving to cloud and having more data in the cloud, we think that innovation is happening, digital innovation is happening very fast and Presto is a major enabler of that, again, being able to get, drive insights from the data this is not just your typical business data, it's now getting into really clickstream data, knowing about how customers are operating today, Uber is a great example of all the different types of innovations they can drive, whether it be, you know, knowing in real time what's happening with rides, or offering you a subscription for special deals to use the service more. So, you know, Ahana we really love Presto, and we provide a SaaS manage service of the open source and provide free trials, and help people get up to speed that may not have the same type of skills as Uber or Facebook does. And we work with all companies in that way. >> Think about the consumers these days, we're very demanding, right? When I think one of the things that was in short supply during the last two years was patience. And if I think of Uber as a great example, I want to know if I'm asking for a ride I want to know exactly in real time what's coming for me? Where is it now? How many more minutes is it going to take? I mean, that need to fulfill real-time insights is critical across every industry but have you seen anything in the last couple years that's been more leading edge, like e-commerce or retail for example? I'm just curious. >> Girish you want to take that one or? >> Yeah, sure. So I can speak from the Uber point of view. So real-time insights has really exploded as an area, particularly as you mentioned with this just-in-time economy, right? Just to talk about it a little bit from Uber side, so some of the insights that you mentioned about when is your ride coming, and things of that nature, right? Look at it from the driver's point of view who are, now we have Uber Eats, so look at it from the restaurant manager's point of view, right? They also want to know how is their business coming? How many customer orders are coming for instance? what is the conversion rate? And so forth, right? And today these are all insights that are powered by a system which has a Presto as an front-end interface at Uber. And these queries run like, you have like tens of thousands of queries every single second, and the queries run in like a second and so forth. So you are really talking about production systems running on top of Presto, production serving systems. So coming to other use cases like eCommerce, we definitely have seen some of that uptake happen as well, so in the broader community for instance, we have companies like Stripe, and other folks who are also using this hashtag which is very similar to us based on another open source technology called Pino, using Presto as an interface. And so we are seeing this whole open data lakehouse more from just being, you know, about interactive analytics to driving all different kinds of analytics. Having anything to do with data and insights in this space. >> Yeah, sounds like the evolution has been kind of on a rocket ship the last couple years. Steven, one more time we're out of time, but can you mention that URL where folks can go to learn more? >> Yeah, prestodb.io and that's the Presto Foundation. And you know, just want to say that we'll be sharing the use case at the Startup Showcase coming up with theCUBE. We're excited about that and really welcome everyone to join the community, it's a real vibrant, expanding community and look forward to seeing you online. >> Sounds great guys. Thank you so much for sharing with us what Presto Foundation is doing, all of the things that it is catalyzing, great stuff, we look forward to hearing that customer use case, thanks for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Lisa, thank you. >> Thanks everyone. >> For Steven and Girish, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage. (bright music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm Lisa Martin; I am joined by the CEO and co-founder of Privacera, Balaji Ganesan. Balaji, it's great to have you on theCUBE. >> Great to great to see you, Lisa. Good to see you again, and thanks for the opportunity. >> So tell our audience about Privacera. How do you help balance data security, data sharing? >> Absolutely. At Privacera we are on a mission to help enterprises unlock their data, but do it in a secure and a compliant way. We are in this balance between, we call it a dual mandate, where we see enterprise data teams, on one hand, they are being asked to democratize data and make this data available to all parts of the organization. So everybody in the organization is looking forward to get access to the data faster. On the other hand, governance, privacy, and compliance mandates have become more stringent. And it has come from regulations such as GDPR or California Privacy, but in general, the environment and the culture has changed where, from a board level, there's more owners who are making sure that you have visibility on what data you're bringing in, but also make sure that right people have access to the right data. And that notion is no longer in textbooks or in books, right? It's being actually, an onus is on making it happen. And it's really hard for these data teams do that, as the platforms are very diverse. And again, driven by data democratization today, companies are running very diverse platforms. Even in a single cloud like AWS, they have choices between Snowflake or Databricks and Amazon's native tools and other other services, which are really cropping up and being available in the cloud. But if you need to make sure right people have access to the right data, in that paradigm it's really, really hard. And this is where a tool like Privacera comes in, where we can help them get visibility on their data, but also make sure that we can help them with building a unified layer where they can start managing these tools more cohesively. And the end result is they can get access to the data faster, but you're compliant, you're governed, and you have visibility around who's doing what. And that's the big enabler in their data strategy. >> So, we talk about the need for data monetization, for organizations to be able to give enterprise-wide access across business units, to identify new sources of revenue and new opportunities. That's a big challenge to do. You mentioned the security and governance front at the board level. I imagined that the data-sharing is as well. How are you helping customers navigate multiple platforms, multiple clouds, to be able to get access that is actually secure, that the CEO can go back to the board and say we've got everything, you know, all I's dotted and T's crossed here? >> Absolutely, absolutely. I think this is one of the biggest challenges that we have the CIOs face today, is on one hand, they have to be agile to the business and make sure that they're present in the cloud, but they are enabling multiple services that the business needs for agility. And data is being one of the business drivers today, And most companies are becoming data companies. And it is to make decisions to serve your customer better, bring more revenue, cut costs. Even in the midst of COVID, we have seen our customers go in and leverage data to find out how they can shift to a different paradigm of doing business. Now, we had a customer which was primarily in retail stores, but they had to go and shift and analyze data on how they can pivot into a more online world in the COVID paradigm, how they can make supply chain decisions faster. So every company is becoming a data-driven business. The data is becoming the currency. So more units want faster access to the data as possible. But on the other hand, you cannot forget about governance. You can not forget about security, it's becoming a table stakes as part of it. And traditionally, this has been a zero-sum game, where, you know, in order to maintain more security, you cannot give more access to the data or you will make copies of the data, and that creates redundancy. The newer paradigm, in our belief, is that you can do both. And that's how Privacera has built toward. And this is how we are helping our customers in their journey where, you know, if you take Comcast, for example, they're building a massive infrastructure on top of AWS to serve the digital analytics part of it. And they are collecting a lot of data and making decisions based on that. But on the other hand, in order for them to achieve compliance and privacy, there needs to be an approach, a more unified layer, which is not innovating from using the data. And this is where a solution like Privacera is coming in, where we have built an approach, we have built an architecture, where they can enable governance and policies, and these policies are being implemented across the data infrastructure. So it doesn't matter which application you use, where you're coming from, you're governed by the same rules and policies. And that uniformity, that consistency is something we can bring in, of being in horizontal layer and having built those integrations, prebuilt those integrations in. So with Comcast, what the end result they're saying is they can be faster to the market, right? Before us, they would be spending a lot of time with manual processes to build that governance. But with an automated layer, with an automated governance, which has prebuilt integrations into all the layers, they are now able to go to market faster, but now they're going into the market with the governance and the compliance built in, so they can have both. So again, our belief is it's not zero-sum. Your governance, security can be built in with this business agility. And we are helping customers do that. >> You mentioned that retail customer and COVID-19, and we saw a massive pivot about a year and a half ago. And some companies did a great job of pivoting from brick and mortar to curbside delivery, for example, which is table stakes. But we saw so much acceleration of digital transformation last year. How has COVID-19 impacted governance? And what are some of the things that you're helping customers achieve there as they're accelerating their digital journeys? >> Again, going back to the drivers, we are seeing our customers, right? So on one hand, digitization and cloud journey, that accelerated during COVID right? So more companies where they were doing their cloud journey, they accelerated, because they can unlock data faster. And, to my earlier examples, they want to make decisions, leveraging data. And COVID brought that, even accelerated some of these initiatives. So there has been more data initiatives than before. Digitalization has accelerated; cloud migration has accelerated. But COVID also brought in the fact that you are not physically located. You can't sit in a room and trust each other and say, "I trust all of you and I'll give you all equal access." You are now sitting in disparate locations, without the traditional securities you would have, a physical boundary, having that. You're now remote. All of a sudden, the CIOs have to think how we can be more agile? How do you build in security, governance in that layer where you have to think start from bottom staff and then say, are you governing and protecting your data wherever it is stored and being accessed, Rather than relying on perimeter or relying on a physical boundary or being in a physical location. So those traditional paradigms are getting shattered. And most companies have recognized, most forward-looking companies, are recognizing that. They accelerated those trends. And from what we have seen from our point of view is we are able to help in that transformation, both in enabling companies to become digital and democratize data faster, but also building this bottom-up layer where they can be sure that they have visibility on what data they have, but also making sure right people have access to the right data, irrespective of what tool they use, irrespective of where they are set, they're always getting that part of it. And that's a sea change we are seeing in the companies now. So COVID in our industry, in our world, has brought in massive transformation and massive opportunities to set a new paradigm for how organizations treat governance, as well as the data initiative. >> A lot of change that it's brought. Some good, as you've mentioned. Talk to me about, so Privacera is built on Apache Ranger; how are you guys helping AWS customers from a cloud migration perspective? Because we know cloud migration is continuing to accelerate. >> Our foundation, given our work in open source, has always been building around open standards and interoperability, and we believe an enterprise solution needs to be built around these standards that we can talk to. You're not the only solution that enterprises will have. There needs to be interoperability, especially around governance and where we exchanging information, and with other tools. And given a legacy of Ranger, it helps us build those standards. And Ranger as a project today is supported from the likes of Cloudera or in the cloud, Microsoft, AWS, and Google, and most of the forward-looking standards and tools, like Presto and Spark. It has been a de facto standard used by some of these analytical engines. The wide adoption around that, and being built on Ranger gives us that standard of interoperability. So when we go and work with other tools, it makes it easier for us to talk. It makes it easier for organizations to transition in their cloud journey, where they can now very easily move the governance and policies of, even if they are running Ranger on premise, they can easily move those standards, those policies, easily into the cloud. For example, with Sun Life, it was the same case, where they built a lot of these rules and policies in their on-premise environment. Being an insurance company, they always had governance and compliance at top of their mind. Very strict rules around who can access what data and what portions of data, because this data is governed by federal laws, by a lot of the industry laws and mandates and compliance. And they always had this notion in on-premise. Now when they're migrating to the cloud, one of the bottlenecks is how do you move this governance and do you have to build it from scratch? But with our tool and the standards we have built in, we can migrate that in days rather than months. So for them, we help in the overall cloud migration. To my earlier point, we are helping customers achieve faster time to market by enabling this governance and making it easier. And by having this open standard, it makes it easier for customers to migrate and then cooperate, rather than having to build it again, having to reinvent the wheel when they migrate to the cloud. Because, the governance and compliance mandates are not changing when you go from prem to cloud. In fact cloud, in some cases, it's more diverse. So by helping organizations do that, we are helping them achieve a faster acceleration, which is the case happened in Sun Life. >> That time to market is absolutely imperative. If anything, we've learned in the last 18 months, it's businesses that needed to pivot overnight multiple times. And they need to be able to get to market faster, whether it's pivoting from being a brick and mortar, to being able to deliver a curbside delivery. The time to market, people don't have that time, regardless of industry, because there's competitors in the rear-view mirror who might be smaller, more agile, and able to get to market faster. So these bigger companies, and any company, needs to have a faster time to market. >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we are seeing. And that's big driver for journey into the cloud is to bring that agility. In the earlier paradigm, you're going to have a monolithical technology standard, and you can adopt changes faster when you are reliant on the IT team. What cloud brings in is, you can now move data into the cloud and enable any service and any team faster than ever before. You can enable a team on Snowflake, you can enable a team on a different machine learning tool, all having access to the same data, without it being the need for the data to be copied and servers built out. The cloud is really bringing that digital transformation, but it's also bringing in the agility of being faster and nimble and as part of it. But the challenge for cloud is it's happening at the same time governance, privacy has become real. And organizations no longer can be assuming that, you know, they can just move data into the cloud and be done with it. You have to really think about all layers of the cloud and say, how do you make sure that data is protected on all layers, in all consumption? How do you make sure that right people have access to the right data? And that's a much comprehensive problem, given the world that we are now not sitting in a physical office anymore, we are distributed. How do you do that? So while cloud brings that business agility, it's also happening, not because of cloud, but because of the climate we are in, that governance and compliance is real. And most forward-looking organizations are thinking about how they can build a foundation that can handle both. How they can build, institutionalize these governance frameworks in the newer paradigms of cloud. We are seeing the companies implementing what is called a data mesh, which is essentially a concept of how the data could be decentralized and owned by business owners and teams. But how do you bring governance in that? How do you make sure that a layer of that, and then a newer paradigm most forward-looking organizations are adopting is, governance doesn't need to be managed by one team. It can be a distributed function. But can you institutionalize a foundation or a framework, and you have pools which can be used by different teams. So they are bound by the same rules, but they're operating in their own independent way. And that's the future for us, is how the organizations can figure out how in the cloud, they can have a more distributed, delegated, decentralized governance that aligns with their business strategy of self-service analytics and use of data across multiple teams, but all bound by the same framework, all bound by common rules so that you're not building your own; the tools and the methods are all common, but each team is able to operate independently. And that's where the agility, true agility, will come in, when organizations are able to do that. And I think we are in probably step one or two of the journey. It's fascinating to see some of the organizations take leaps in that. But for us, the future is how if some organizations can build those foundations in from processes and people, they can truly unlock the power of the cloud. >> You brought in technology and people; last question is, how do you advise customers when you're in conversations? We talked about data access, governance, security, being a board-level conversation, the ability for an organization to monetize their data; but how do you talk about that balance when you're with customers? That's a tricky line. >> And what we say to the customer, it's a journey. You don't have to think of solving this on day one. What we really think about is foundational steps you need to do to achieve that journey. And what are the steps you can do today? And add onto it, rather than trying to solve for everything on day one. And that's what most of the focus areas goes in, is how we can help our customers put together a program which achieves both their data strategy and aligns their governance with it. And most forward-looking organizations are already doing that, where they have a multi-year journey that they're already working on. They are thinking about some of the things that we help with. And in some cases, when organizations are not thinking about it, we come and help and advise with that. Our advice always is, start thinking about today and what your next two or three years is going to look like. We put together a program. And that involves tools, that involves people, and that involves organization structure. And we are a cog in the wheel, but we also recommend them to look at, holistically, all the aspects. And that's our job at the end of the day as vendors in this industry, to help collectively learn from customers what we are learning and can help the next set of customers coming. But we believe, again, going back to my point, if organizations are able to set up this paradigm where they're able to set structures, where they can delegate governance, but they build those common rules and frameworks upfront, they are set up to succeed in the future. They can be more agile than their competitors. >> And that is absolutely table stakes these days. Balaji, thank you so much for joining, telling our audience about Privacera, what you're doing, how you're helping customers, particularly AWS customers, migrate to the cloud in such a dynamic environment. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much. It was a pleasure talking to you and I appreciate it. >> Likewise. For Balaji Ganesan, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this CUBE Conversation. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Live from San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Dataworks Summit 2018, brought to you by Hortonworks. (electronic whooshing) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dataworks, here in San Jose, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We have two guests in this segment, we have Steve Wooledge, he is the VP of Product Marketing at Arcadia Data, and Satya Ramachandran, who is the VP of Engineering at Neustar. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Our pleasure and thank you. >> So let's start out by setting the scene for our viewers. Tell us a little bit about what Arcadia Data does. >> Arcadia Data is focused on getting business value from these modern scale-out architectures, like Hadoop, and the Cloud. We started in 2012 to solve the problem of how do we get value into the hands of the business analysts that understand a little bit more about the business, in addition to empowering the data scientists to deploy their models and value to a much broader audience. So I think that's been, in some ways, the last mile of value that people need to get out of Hadoop and data lakes, is to get it into the hands of the business. So that's what we're focused on. >> And start seeing the value, as you said. >> Yeah, seeing is believing, a picture is a thousand words, all those good things. And what's really emerging, I think, is companies are realizing that traditional BI technology won't solve the scale and user concurrency issues, because architecturally, big data's different, right? We're on the scale-out, MPP architectures now, like Hadoop, the data complexity and variety has changed, but the BI tools are still the same, and you pull the data out of the system to put it into some little micro cube to do some analysis. Companies want to go after all the data, and view the analysis across a much broader set, and that's really what we enable. >> I want to hear about the relationship between your two companies, but Satya, tell us a little about Neustar, what you do. >> Neustar is an information services company, we are built around identity. We are the premiere identity provider, the most authoritative identity provider for the US. And we built a whole bunch of services around that identity platform. I am part of the marketing solutions group, and I head the analytics engineering for marketing solutions. The product that I work on helps marketers do their annual planning, as well as their campaign or tactical planning, so that they can fine tune their campaigns on an ongoing basis. >> So how do you use Arcadia Data's primary product? >> So we are a predictive analytics platform, the reporting solution, we use Arcadia for the reporting part of it. So we have multi terabytes of advertising data in our values, and so we use Arcadia to provide fast taxes to our customers, and also very granular and explorative analysis of this data. High (mumbles) and explorative analysis of this data. >> So you say you help your customers with their marketing campaigns, so are you doing predictive analytics? And are you during churn analysis and so forth? And how does Arcadia fit into all of that? >> So we get data and then they build an activation model, which tells how the marketing spent corresponds to the revenue. We not only do historical analysis, we also do predictive, in the sense that the marketers frequently done what-if analysis, saying that, what if I moved my budget from page search to TV? And how does it affect the revenue? So all of this modeling is built by Neustar, the modeling platform is built by the Neustar, but the last mile of taking these reports and providing this explorative analysis of the results, that is provided by the reporting solution, which is Arcadia. >> Well, I mean, the thing about data analytics, is that it really is going to revolutionize marketing. That famous marketing adage of, I know my advertising works, I just don't know which half, and now we're really going to be able to figure out which half. Can you talk a little bit about return on investment and what your clients see? >> Sure, we've got some major Fortune 500 companies that have said publicly that they've realized over a billion dollars of incremental value. And that could be across both marketing analytics, and how we better treat our messaging, our brand, to reach our intended audience. There's things like supply chain and being able to more realtime analyze what-if analysis for different routes, it's things like cyber security and stopping fraud and waste and things like that at a much grander scale than what was really possible in the past. >> So we're here at Dataworks and it's the Hortonworks show. Give us a sense of the degree of your engagement or partnership with Hortonworks and participation in their partner ecosystem. >> Yeah, absolutely. Hortonworks is one of our key partners, and what we did that's different architecturally, is we built our BI server directly into the data platforms. So what I mean by that is, we take the concept of a BI server, we install it and run it on the data nodes of Hortonworks Data Platform. We inherit the security directly out of systems like Apache Ranger, so that all that administration and scale is done at Hadoop economics, if you will, and it leverages the things that are already in place. So that has huge advantages both in terms of scale, but also simplicity, and then you get the performance, the concurrency that companies need to deploy out to like, 5,000 users directly on that Hadoop cluster. So, Hortonworks is a fantastic partner for us and a large number of our customers run on Hortonworks, as well as other platforms, such as Amazon Web Services, where Satya's got his system deployed. >> At the show they announced Hortonworks Data Platform 3.0. There's containerization there, there's updates to Hive to enable it to be more of a realtime analytics, and also a data warehousing engine. In Arcadia Data, do you follow their product enhancements, in terms of your own product roadmap with any specific, fixed cycle? Are you going to be leveraging the new features in HDP 3.0 going forward to add value to your customers' ability to do interactive analysis of this data in close to realtime? >> Sure, yeah, no, because we're a native-- >> 'Cause marketing campaigns are often in realtime increasingly, especially when you're using, you know, you got a completely digital business. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we benefit from the innovations happening within the Hortonworks Data Platform. So, because we're a native BI tool that runs directly within that system, you know, with changes in Hive, or different things within HDFS, in terms of performance or compression and things like that, our customers generally benefit from that directly, so yeah. >> Satya, going forward, what are some of the problems that you want to solve for your clients? What is their biggest pain points and where do you see Neustar? >> So, data is the new island, right? So, marketers, also for them now, data is the biggest, is what they're going after. They want faster analysis, they want to be able to get to insights as fast as they can, and they want to obviously get, work on as large amount of data as possible. The variety of sources is becoming higher and higher and higher, in terms of marketing. There used to be a few channels in '70s and '80s, and '90s kind of increased, now you have like, hundreds of channels, if not thousands of channels. And they want visibility across all of that. It's the ability to work across this variety of data, increasing volume at a very high speed. Those are high level challenges that we have at Neustar. >> Great. >> So the difference, marketing attribution analysis you say is one of the core applications of your solution portfolio. How is that more challenging now than it had been in the past? We have far more marketing channels, digital and so forth, then how does the state-of-the-art of marketing attribution analysis, how is it changing to address this multiplicity of channels and media for advertising and for influencing the customer on social media and so forth? And then, you know, can you give us a sense for then, what are the necessary analytical tools needed for that? We often hear about a social graph analysis or semantic analysis, or for behavioral analytics and so forth, all of this makes it very challenging. How can you determine exactly what influences a customer now in this day and age, where, you think, you know, Twitter is an influencer over the conversation. How can you nail that down to specific, you know, KPIs or specific things to track? >> So I think, from our, like you pointed out, the variety is increasing, right? And I think the marketers now have a lot more options than what they have, and that that's a blessing, and it's also a curse. Because then I don't know where I'm going to move my marketing spending to. So, attribution right now, is still sitting at the headquarters, it's kind of sitting at a very high level and it is answering questions. Like we said, with the Fortune 100 companies, it's still answering questions to the CMOs, right? Where attribution will take us, next step is to then lower down, where it's able to answer the regional headquarters on what needs to happen, and more importantly, on every store, I'm able to then answer and tailor my attribution model to a particular store. Let's take Ford for an example, right? Now, instead of the CMO suite, but, if I'm able to go to every dealer, and I'm able to personal my attribution to that particular dealer, then it becomes a lot more useful. The challenge there is it all needs to be connected. Whatever model we are working for the dealer, needs to be connected up to the headquarters. >> Yes, and that personalization, it very much leverages the kind of things that Steve was talking about at Arcadia. Being able to analyze all the data to find those micro, micro, micro segments that can be influenced to varying degrees, so yeah. I like where you're going with this, 'cause it very much relates to the power of distributing federated big data fabrics like Hortonworks' offers. >> And so it's streaming analytics is coming to forward, and it's been talked about for the past longest period of time, but we have real use cases for streaming analytics right now. Similarly, the large volumes of the data volumes is, indeed, becoming a lot more. So both of them are doing a lot more right now. >> Yes. >> Great. >> Well, Satya and Steve, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE, this was really, really fun talking to you. >> Excellent. >> Thanks, it was great to meet you. Thanks for having us. >> I love marketing talk. >> (laughs) It's fun. I'm Rebecca Knight, for James Kobielus, stay tuned to theCUBE, we will have more coming up from our live coverage of Dataworks, just after this. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by HortonWorks. >> We are wrapping up Day One of coverage of Dataworks here in San Jose, California on theCUBE. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We have two guests for this last segment of the day. We have Sudhir Hasbe, who is the director of product management at Google and Ram Venkatesh, who is VP of Engineering at Hortonworks. Ram, Sudhir, thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> So, I want to start out by asking you about a joint announcement that was made earlier this morning about using some Hortonworks technology deployed onto Google Cloud. Tell our viewers more. >> Sure, so basically what we announced was support for the Hortonworks DataPlatform and Hortonworks DataFlow, HDP and HDF, running on top of the Google Cloud Platform. So this includes deep integration with Google's cloud storage connector layer as well as it's a certified distribution of HDP to run on the Google Cloud Platform. >> I think the key thing is a lot of our customers have been telling us they like the familiar environment of Hortonworks distribution that they've been using on-premises and as they look at moving to cloud, like in GCP, Google Cloud, they want the similar, familiar environment. So, they want the choice to deploy on-premises or Google Cloud, but they want the familiarity of what they've already been using with Hortonworks products. So this announcement actually helps customers pick and choose like whether they want to run Hortonworks distribution on-premises, they want to do it in cloud, or they wat to build this hybrid solution where the data can reside on-premises, can move to cloud and build these common, hybrid architecture. So, that's what this does. >> So, HDP customers can store data in the Google Cloud. They can execute ephemeral workloads, analytic workloads, machine learning in the Google Cloud. And there's some tie-in between Hortonworks's real-time or low latency or streaming capabilities from HDF in the Google Cloud. So, could you describe, at a full sort of detail level, the degrees of technical integration between your two offerings here. >> You want to take that? >> Sure, I'll handle that. So, essentially, deep in the heart of HDP, there's the HDFS layer that includes Hadoop compatible file system which is a plug-able file system layer. So, what Google has done is they have provided an implementation of this API for the Google Cloud Storage Connector. So this is the GCS Connector. We've taken the connector and we've actually continued to refine it to work with our workloads and now Hortonworks has actually bundling, packaging, and making this connector be available as part of HDP. >> So bilateral data movement between them? Bilateral workload movement? >> No, think of this as being very efficient when our workloads are running on top of GCP. When they need to get at data, they can get at data that is in the Google Cloud Storage buckets in a very, very efficient manner. So, since we have fairly deep expertise on workloads like Apache Hive and Apache Spark, we've actually done work in these workloads to make sure that they can run efficiently, not just on HDFS, but also in the cloud storage connector. This is a critical part of making sure that the architecture is actually optimized for the cloud. So, at our skill and our customers are moving their workloads from on-premise to the cloud, it's not just functional parity, but they also need sort of the operational and the cost efficiency that they're looking for as they move to the cloud. So, to do that, we need to enable these fundamental disaggregated storage pattern. See, on-prem, the big win with Hadoop was we could bring the processing to where the data was. In the cloud, we need to make sure that we work well when storage and compute are disaggregated and they're scaled elastically, independent of each other. So this is a fairly fundamental architectural change. We want to make sure that we enable this in a first-class manner. >> I think that's a key point, right. I think what cloud allows you to do is scale the storage and compute independently. And so, with storing data in Google Cloud Storage, you can like scale that horizontally and then just leverage that as your storage layer. And the compute can independently scale by itself. And what this is allowing customers of HDP and HDF is store the data on GCP, on the cloud storage, and then just use the scale, the compute side of it with HDP and HDF. >> So, if you'll indulge me to a name, another Hortonworks partner for just a hypothetical. Let's say one of your customers is using IBM Data Science Experience to do TensorFlow modeling and training, can they then inside of HDP on GCP, can they use the compute infrastructure inside of GCP to do the actual modeling which is more compute intensive and then the separate decoupled storage infrastructure to do the training which is more storage intensive? Is that a capability that would available to your customers? With this integration with Google? >> Yeah, so where we are going with this is we are saying, IBM DSX and other solutions that are built on top of HDP, they can transparently take advantage of the fact that they have HDP compute infrastructure to run against. So, you can run your machine learning training jobs, you can run your scoring jobs and you can have the same unmodified DSX experience whether you're running against an on-premise HDP environment or an in-cloud HDP environment. Further, that's sort of the benefit for partners and partner solutions. From a customer standpoint, the big value prop here is that customers, they're used to securing and governing their data on-prem in their particular way with HDP, with Apache Ranger, Atlas, and so forth. So, when they move to the cloud, we want this experience to be seamless from a management standpoint. So, from a data management standpoint, we want all of their learning from a security and governance perspective to apply when they are running in Google Cloud as well. So, we've had this capability on Azure and on AWS, so with this partnership, we are announcing the same type of deep integration with GCP as well. >> So Hortonworks is that one pane of glass across all your product partners for all manner of jobs. Go ahead, Rebecca. >> Well, I just wanted to ask about, we've talked about the reason, the impetus for this. With the customer, it's more familiar for customers, it offers the seamless experience, But, can you delve a little bit into the business problems that you're solving for customers here? >> A lot of times, our customers are at various points on their cloud journey, that for some of them, it's very simple, they're like there's a broom coming by and the datacenter is going away in 12 months and I need to be in the cloud. So, this is where there is a wholesale movement of infrastructure from on-premise to the cloud. Others are exploring individual business use cases. So, for example, one of our large customers, a travel partner, so they are exploring their new pricing model and they want to roll out this pricing model in the cloud. They have on-premise infrastructure, they know they have that for a while. They are spinning up new use cases in the cloud typically for reasons of agility. So, if you, typically many of our customers, they operate large, multi-tenant clusters on-prem. That's nice for, so a very scalable compute for running large jobs. But, if you want to run, for example, a new version of Spark, you have to upgrade the entire cluster before you can do that. Whereas in this sort of model, what they can say is, they can bring up a new workload and just have the specific versions and dependency that it needs, independent of all of their other infrastructure. So this gives them agility where they can move as fast as... >> Through the containerization of the Spark jobs or whatever. >> Correct, and so containerization as well as even spinning up an entire new environment. Because, in the cloud, given that you have access to elastic compute resources, they can come and go. So, your workloads are much more independent of the underlying cluster than they are on-premise. And this is where sort of the core business benefits around agility, speed of deployment, things like that come into play. >> And also, if you look at the total cost of ownership, really take an example where customers are collecting all this information through the month. And, at month end, you want to do closing of books. And so that's a great example where you want ephemeral workloads. So this is like do it once in a month, finish the books and close the books. That's a great scenario for cloud where you don't have to on-premises create an infrastructure, keep it ready. So that's one example where now, in the new partnership, you can collect all the data through the on-premises if you want throughout the month. But, move that and leverage cloud to go ahead and scale and do this workload and finish the books and all. That's one, the second example I can give is, a lot of customers collecting, like they run their e-commerce platforms and all on-premises, let's say they're running it. They can still connect all these events through HDP that may be running on-premises with Kafka and then, what you can do is, in-cloud, in GCP, you can deploy HDP, HDF, and you can use the HDF from there for real-time stream processing. So, collect all these clickstream events, use them, make decisions like, hey, which products are selling better?, should we go ahead and give?, how many people are looking at that product?, or how many people have bought it?. That kind of aggregation and real-time at scale, now you can do in-cloud and build these hybrid architectures that are there. And enable scenarios where in past, to do that kind of stuff, you would have to procure hardware, deploy hardware, all of that. Which all goes away. In-cloud, you can do that much more flexibly and just use whatever capacity you have. >> Well, you know, ephemeral workloads are at the heart of what many enterprise data scientists do. Real-world experiments, ad-hoc experiments, with certain datasets. You build a TensorFlow model or maybe a model in Caffe or whatever and you deploy it out to a cluster and so the life of a data scientist is often nothing but a stream of new tasks that are all ephemeral in their own right but are part of an ongoing experimentation program that's, you know, they're building and testing assets that may be or may not be deployed in the production applications. That's you know, so I can see a clear need for that, well, that capability of this announcement in lots of working data science shops in the business world. >> Absolutely. >> And I think coming down to, if you really look at the partnership, right. There are two or three key areas where it's going to have a huge advantage for our customers. One is analytics at-scale at a lower cost, like total cost of ownership, reducing that, running at-scale analytics. That's one of the big things. Again, as I said, the hybrid scenarios. Most customers, enterprise customers have huge deployments of infrastructure on-premises and that's not going to go away. Over a period of time, leveraging cloud is a priority for a lot of customers but they will be in these hybrid scenarios. And what this partnership allows them to do is have these scenarios that can span across cloud and on-premises infrastructure that they are building and get business value out of all of these. And then, finally, we at Google believe that the world will be more and more real-time over a period of time. Like, we already are seeing a lot of these real-time scenarios with IoT events coming in and people making real-time decisions. And this is only going to grow. And this partnership also provides the whole streaming analytics capabilities in-cloud at-scale for customers to build these hybrid plus also real-time streaming scenarios with this package. >> Well it's clear from Google what the Hortonworks partnership gives you in this competitive space, in the multi-cloud space. It gives you that ability to support hybrid cloud scenarios. You're one of the premier public cloud providers and we all know about. And clearly now that you got, you've had the Hortonworks partnership, you have that ability to support those kinds of highly hybridized deployments for your customers, many of whom I'm sure have those requirements. >> That's perfect, exactly right. >> Well a great note to end on. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Sudhir, Ram, that you so much. >> Thank you, thanks a lot. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus, we will have more tomorrow from DataWorks. We will see you tomorrow. This is theCUBE signing off. >> From sunny San Jose. >> That's right.

>> Live from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2018, brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in sunny San Jose, California. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host James Kobielus. We're joined by Dan Potter. He is the VP Product Management at Attunity and also Ali Bajwah, who is the principal partner solutions engineer at Hortonworks. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> It's good to be here. >> So I want to start with you, Dan, and have you tell our viewers a little bit about the company based in Boston, Massachusetts, what Attunity does. >> Attunity, we're a data integration vendor. We are best known as a provider of real-time data movement from transactional systems into data lakes, into clouds, into streaming architectures, so it's a modern approach to data integration. So as these core transactional systems are being updated, we're able to take those changes and move those changes where they're needed when they're needed for analytics for new operational applications, for a variety of different tasks. >> Change data capture. >> Change data capture is the heart of our-- >> They are well known in this business. They have changed data capture. Go ahead. >> We are. >> So tell us about the announcement today that Attunity has made at the Hortonworks-- >> Yeah, thank you, it's a great announcement because it showcases the collaboration between Attunity and Hortonworks and it's all about taking the metadata that we capture in that integration process. So we're a piece of a data lake architecture. As we are capturing changes from those source systems, we are also capturing the metadata, so we understand the source systems, we understand how the data gets modified along the way. We use that metadata internally and now we're built extensions to share that metadata into Atlas and to be able to extend that out through Atlas to higher data governance initiatives, so Data Steward Studio, into the DataPlane Services, so it's really important to be able to take the metadata that we have and to add to it the metadata that's from the other sources of information. >> Sure, for more of the transactional semantics of what Hortonworks has been describing they've baked in to HDP in your overall portfolios. Is that true? I mean, that supports those kind of requirements. >> With HTP, what we're seeing is you know the EDW optimization play has become more and more important for a lot of customers as they try to optimize the data that their EDWs are working on, so it really gels well with what we've done here with Attunity and then on the Atlas side with the integration on the governance side with GDPR and other sort of regulations coming into the play now, you know, those sort of things are becoming more and more important, you know, specifically around the governance initiative. We actually have a talk just on Thursday morning where we're actually showcasing the integration as well. >> So can you talk a little bit more about that for those who aren't going to be there for Thursday. GDPR was really a big theme at the DataWorks Berlin event and now we're in this new era and it's not talked about too, too much, I mean we-- >> And global business who have businesses at EU, but also all over the world, are trying to be systematic and are consistent about how they manage PII everywhere. So GDPR are those in EU regulation, really in many ways it's having ripple effects across the world in terms of practices. >> Absolutely and at the heart of understanding how you protect yourself and comply, I need to understand my data, and that's where metadata comes in. So having a holistic understanding of all of the data that resides in your data lake or in your cloud, metadata becomes a key part of that. And also in terms of enforcing that, if I understand my customer data, where the customer data comes from, the lineage from that, then I'm able to apply the protections of the masking on top of that data. So it's really, the GDPR effect has had, you know, it's created a broad-scale need for organizations to really get a handle on metadata so the timing of our announcement just works real well. >> And one nice thing about this integration is that you know it's not just about being able to capture the data in Atlas, but now with the integration of Atlas and Ranger, you can do enforcement of policies based on classifications as well, so if you can tag data as PCI, PII, personal data, that can get enforced through Ranger to say, hey, only certain admins can access certain types of data and now all that becomes possible once we've taken the initial steps of the Atlas integration. >> So with this collaboration, and it's really deepening an existing relationship, so how do you go to market? How do you collaborate with each other and then also service clients? >> You want to? >> Yeah, so from an engineering perspective, we've got deep roots in terms of being a first-class provider into the Hortonworks platform, both HDP and HDF. Last year about this time, we announced our support for acid merge capabilities, so the leading-edge work that Hortonworks has done in bringing acid compliance capabilities into Hive, was a really important one, so our change to data capture capabilities are able to feed directly into that and be able to support those extensions. >> Yeah, we have a lot of you know really key customers together with Attunity and you know maybe a a result of that they are actually our ISV of the Year as well, which they probably showcase on their booth there. >> We're very proud of that. Yeah, no, it's a nice honor for us to get that distinction from Hortonworks and it's also a proof point to the collaboration that we have commercially. You know our sales reps work hand in hand. When we go into a large organization, we both sell to very large organizations. These are big transformative initiatives for these organizations and they're looking for solutions not technologies, so the fact that we can come in, we can show the proof points from other customers that are successfully using our joint solution, that's really, it's critical. >> And I think it helps that they're integrating with some of our key technologies because, you know, that's where our sales force and our customers really see, you know, that as well as that's where we're putting in the investment and that's where these guys are also investing, so it really, you know, helps the story together. So with Hive, we're doing a lot of investment of making it closer and closer to a sort of real-time database, where you can combine historical insights as well as your, you know, real-time insights. with the new acid merge capabilities where you can do the inserts, updates and deletes, and so that's exactly what Attunity's integrating with with Atlas. We're doing a lot of investments there and that's exactly what these guys are integrating with. So I think our customers and prospects really see that and that's where all the wins are coming from. >> Yeah, and I think together there were two main barriers that we saw in terms of customers getting the most out of their data lake investment. One of them was, as I'm moving data into my data lake, I need to be able to put some structure around this, I need to be able to handle continuously updating data from multiple sources and that's what we introduce with Attunity composed for Hive, building out the structure in an automated fashion so I've got analytics-ready data and using the acid merge capabilities just made those updates much easier. The second piece was metadata. Business users need to have confidence that the data that they're using. Where did this come from? How is it modified? And overcoming both of those is really helping organizations make the most of those investments. >> How would you describe customer attitudes right now in terms of their approach to data because I mean, as we've talked about, data is the new oil, so there's a real excitement and there's a buzz around it and yet there's also so many high-profile cases of breeches and security concerns, so what would you say, is it that customers, are they more excited or are they more trepidatious? How would you describe the CIL mindset right now? >> So I think security and governance has become top of minds right, so more and more the serveways that we've taken with our customers, right, you know, more and more customers are more concerned about security, they're more concerned about governance. The joke is that we talk to some of our customers and they keep talking to us about Atlas, which is sort of one of the newer offerings on governance that we have, but then we ask, "Hey, what about Ranger for enforcement?" And they're like, "Oh, yeah, that's a standard now." So we have Ranger, now it's a question of you know how do we get our you know hooks into the Atlas and all that kind of stuff, so yeah, definitely, as you mentioned, because of GDPR, because of all these kind of issues that have happened, it's definitely become top of minds. >> And I would say the other side of that is there's real excitement as well about the possibilities. Now bringing together all of this data, AI, machine learning, real-time analytics and real-time visualization. There's analytic capabilities now that organizations have never had, so there's great excitement, but there's also trepidation. You know, how do we solve for both of those? And together, we're doing just that. >> But as you mentioned, if you look at Europe, some of the European companies that are more hit by GDPR, they're actually excited that now they can, you know, really get to understand their data more and do better things with it as a result of you know the GDPR initiative. >> Absolutely. >> Are you using machine learning inside of Attunity in a Hortonworks context to find patterns in that data in real time? >> So we enable data scientists to build those models. So we're not only bringing the data together but again, part of the announcement last year is the way we structure that data in Hive, we provide a complete historic data store so every single transaction that has happened and we send those transactions as they happen, it's at a big append, so if you're a data scientist, I want to understand the complete history of the transactions of a customer to be able to build those models, so building those out in Hive and making those analytics ready in Hive, that's what we do, so we're a key enabler to machine learning. >> Making analytics ready rather than do the analytics in the spring, yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, the other side to that is that because they're integrated with Atlas, you know, now we have a new capability called DataPlane and Data Steward Studio so the idea there is around multi-everything, so more and more customers have multiple clusters whether it's on-prem, in the cloud, so now more and more customers are looking at how do I get a single glass pane of view across all my data whether it's on-prem, in the cloud, whether it's IOT, whether it's data at rest, right, so that's where DataPlane comes in and with the Data Steward Studio, which is our second offering on top of DataPlane, they can kind of get that view across all their clusters, so as soon as you know the data lands from Attunity into Atlas, you can get a view into that across as a part of Data Steward Studio, and one of the nice things we do in Data Steward Studio is that we also have machine learning models to do some profiling, to figure out that hey, this looks like a credit card, so maybe I should suggest this as a tag of sensitive data and now the end user, the end administration has the option of you know saying that okay, yeah, this is a credit card, I'll accept that tag, or they can reject that and pick one of their own. >> Will any of this going forward of the Attunity CDC change in the capture capability be containerized for deployment to the edges in HDP 3.0? I mean, 'cause it seems, I mean for internetive things, edge analytics and so forth, change data capture, is it absolutely necessary to make the entire, some call it the fog computing, cloud or whatever, to make it a completely transactional environment for all applications from micro endpoint to micro endpoint? Are there any plans to do that going forward? >> Yeah, so I think what HDP 3.0 as you mentioned right, one of the key factors that was coming into play was around time to value, so with containerization now being able to bring third-party apps on top of Yarn through Docker, I think that's definitely an avenue that we're looking at. >> Yes, we're excited about that with 3.0 as well, so that's definitely in the cards for us. >> Great, well, Ali and Dan, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It's fun to have you here. >> Nice to be here, thank you guys. >> Great to have you. >> Thank you, it was a pleasure. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for James Kobielus, we will have more from DataWorks in San Jose just after this. (techno music)

>> Live from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2018, brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in San Jose, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Jim Kobielus. We're joined by Aaron Murphy, Arun Murphy, sorry. He is the co-founder and chief product officer of Hortonworks. Thank you so much for returning to theCUBE. It's great to have you on >> Yeah, likewise. It's been a fun time getting back, yeah. >> So you were on the main stage this morning in the keynote, and you were describing the journey, the data journey that so many customers are on right now, and you were talking about the cloud saying that the cloud is part of the strategy but it really needs to fit into the overall business strategy. Can you describe a little bit about how you're approach to that? >> Absolutely, and the way we look at this is we help customers leverage data to actually deliver better capabilities, better services, better experiences, to their customers, and that's the business we are in. Now with that obviously we look at cloud as a really key part of it, of the overall strategy in terms of how you want to manage data on-prem and on the cloud. We kind of joke that we ourself live in a world of real-time data. We just live in it and data is everywhere. You might have trucks on the road, you might have drawings, you might have sensors and you have it all over the world. At that point, we've kind of got to a point where enterprise understand that they'll manage all the infrastructure but in a lot of cases, it will make a lot more sense to actually lease some of it and that's the cloud. It's the same way, if you're delivering packages, you don't got buy planes and lay out roads you go to FedEx and actually let them handle that view. That's kind of what the cloud is. So that is why we really fundamentally believe that we have to help customers leverage infrastructure whatever makes sense pragmatically both from an architectural standpoint and from a financial standpoint and that's kind of why we talked about how your cloud strategy, is part of your data strategy which is actually fundamentally part of your business strategy. >> So how are you helping customers to leverage this? What is on their minds and what's your response? >> Yeah, it's really interesting, like I said, cloud is cloud, and infrastructure management is certainly something that's at the foremost, at the top of the mind for every CIO today. And what we've consistently heard is they need a way to manage all this data and all this infrastructure in a hybrid multi-tenant, multi-cloud fashion. Because in some GEOs you might not have your favorite cloud renderer. You know, go to parts of Asia is a great example. You might have to use on of the Chinese clouds. You go to parts of Europe, especially with things like the GDPR, the data residency laws and so on, you have to be very, very cognizant of where your data gets stored and where your infrastructure is present. And that is why we fundamentally believe it's really important to have and give enterprise a fabric with which it can manage all of this. And hide the details of all of the underlying infrastructure from them as much as possible. >> And that's DataPlane Services. >> And that's DataPlane Services, exactly. >> The Hortonworks DataPlane Services we launched in October of last year. Actually I was on CUBE talking about it back then too. We see a lot of interest, a lot of excitement around it because now they understand that, again, this doesn't mean that we drive it down to the least common denominator. It is about helping enterprises leverage the key differentiators at each of the cloud renderers products. For example, Google, which we announced a partnership, they are really strong on AI and MO. So if you are running TensorFlow and you want to deal with things like Kubernetes, GKE is a great place to do it. And, for example, you can now go to Google Cloud and get DPUs which work great for TensorFlow. Similarly, a lot of customers run on Amazon for a bunch of the operational stuff, Redshift as an example. So the world we live in, we want to help the CIO leverage the best piece of the cloud but then give them a consistent way to manage and count that data. We were joking on stage that IT has just about learned how deal with Kerberos and Hadoob And now we're telling them, "Oh, go figure out IM on Google." which is also IM on Amazon but they are completely different. The only thing that's consistent is the name. So I think we have a unique opportunity especially with the open source technologies like Altas, Ranger, Knox and so on, to be able to draw a consistent fabric over this and secured occurrence. And help the enterprise leverage the best parts of the cloud to put a best fit architecture together, but which also happens to be a best of breed architecture. >> So the fabric is everything you're describing, all the Apache open source projects in which HortonWorks is a primary committer and contributor, are able to scheme as in policies and metadata and so forth across this distributed heterogeneous fabric of public and private cloud segments within a distributed environment. >> Exactly. >> That's increasingly being containerized in terms of the applications for deployment to edge nodes. Containerization is a big theme in HTP3.0 which you announced at this show. >> Yeah. >> So, if you could give us a quick sense for how that containerization capability plays into more of an edge focus for what your customers are doing. >> Exactly, great point, and again, the fabric is obviously, the core parts of the fabric are the open source projects but we've also done a lot of net new innovation with data plans which, by the way, is also open source. Its a new product and a new platform that you can actually leverage, to lay it out over the open source ones you're familiar with. And again, like you said, containerization, what is actually driving the fundamentals of this, the details matter, the scale at which we operate, we're talking about thousands of nodes, terabytes of data. The details really matter because a 5% improvement at that scale leads to millions of dollars in optimization for capex and opex. So that's why all of that, the details are being fueled and driven by the community which is kind of what we tell over HDP3 Until the key ones, like you said, are containerization because now we can actually get complete agility in terms of how you deploy the applications. You get isolation not only at the resource management level with containers but you also get it at the software level, which means, if two data scientists wanted to use a different version of Python or Scala or Spark or whatever it is, they get that consistently and holistically. That now they can actually go from the test dev cycle into production in a completely consistent manner. So that's why containers are so big because now we can actually leverage it across the stack and the things like MiNiFi showing up. We can actually-- >> Define MiNiFi before you go further. What is MiNiFi for our listeners? >> Great question. Yeah, so we've always had NiFi-- >> Real-time >> Real-time data flow management and NiFi was still sort of within the data center. What MiNiFi does is actually now a really, really small layer, a small thin library if you will that you can throw on a phone, a doorbell, a sensor and that gives you all the capabilities of NiFi but at the edge. >> Mmm Right? And it's actually not just data flow but what is really cool about NiFi it's actually command and control. So you can actually do bidirectional command and control so you can actually change in real-time the flows you want, the processing you do, and so on. So what we're trying to do with MiNiFi is actually not just collect data from the edge but also push the processing as much as possible to the edge because we really do believe a lot more processing is going to happen at the edge especially with the A6 and so on coming out. There will be custom hardware that you can throw and essentially leverage that hardware at the edge to actually do this processing. And we believe, you know, we want to do that even if the cost of data not actually landing up at rest because at the end of the day we're in the insights business not in the data storage business. >> Well I want to get back to that. You were talking about innovation and how so much of it is driven by the open source community and you're a veteran of the big data open source community. How do we maintain that? How does that continue to be the fuel? >> Yeah, and a lot of it starts with just being consistent. From day one, James was around back then, in 2011 we started, we've always said, "We're going to be open source." because we fundamentally believed that the community is going to out innovate any one vendor regardless of how much money they have in the bank. So we really do believe that's the best way to innovate mostly because their is a sense of shared ownership of that product. It's not just one vendor throwing some code out there try to shove it down the customers throat. And we've seen this over and over again, right. Three years ago, we talk about a lot of the data plane stuff comes from Atlas and Ranger and so on. None of these existed. These actually came from the fruits of the collaboration with the community with actually some very large enterprises being a part of it. So it's a great example of how we continue to drive it6 because we fundamentally believe that, that's the best way to innovate and continue to believe so. >> Right. And the community, the Apache community as a whole so many different projects that for example, in streaming, there is Kafka, >> Okay. >> and there is others that address a core set of common requirements but in different ways, >> Exactly. >> supporting different approaches, for example, they are doing streaming with stateless transactions and so forth, or stateless semantics and so forth. Seems to me that HortonWorks is shifting towards being more of a streaming oriented vendor away from data at rest. Though, I should say HDP3.0 has got great scalability and storage efficiency capabilities baked in. I wonder if you could just break it down a little bit what the innovations or enhancements are in HDP3.0 for those of your core customers, which is most of them who are managing massive multi-terabyte, multi-petabyte distributed, federated, big data lakes. What's in HDP3.0 for them? >> Oh for lots. Again, like I said, we obviously spend a lot of time on the streaming side because that's where we see. We live in a real-time world. But again, we don't do it at the cost of our core business which continues to be HDP. And as you can see, the community trend is drive, we talked about continuization massive step up for the Hadoob Community. We've also added support for GPUs. Again, if you think about Trove's at scale machine learning. >> Graphing processing units, >> Graphical-- >> AI, deep learning >> Yeah, it's huge. Deep learning, intensive flow and so on, really, really need a custom, sort of GPU, if you will. So that's coming. That's an HDP3. We've added a whole bunch of scalability improvements with HDFS. We've added federation because now we can go from, you can go over a billion files a billion objects in HDFS. We also added capabilities for-- >> But you indicated yesterday when we were talking that very few of your customers need that capacity yet but you think they will so-- >> Oh for sure. Again, part of this is as we enable more source of data in real-time that's the fuel which drives and that was always the strategy behind the HDF product. It was about, can we leverage the synergies between the real-time world, feed that into what you do today, in your classic enterprise with data at rest and that is what is driving the necessity for scale. >> Yes. >> Right. We've done that. We spend a lot of work, again, loading the total cost of ownership the TCO so we added erasure coding. >> What is that exactly? >> Yeah, so erasure coding is a classic sort of storage concept which allows you to actually in sort of, you know HTFS has always been three replicas So for redundancy, fault tolerance and recovery. Now, it sounds okay having three replicas because it's cheap disk, right. But when you start to think about our customers running 70, 80 hundred terabytes of data those three replicas add up because you've now gone from 80 terabytes of effective data where actually two 1/4 of an exobyte in terms of raw storage. So now what we can do with erasure coding is actually instead of storing the three blocks we actually store parody. We store the encoding of it which means we can actually go down from three to like two, one and a half, whatever we want to do. So, if we can get from three blocks to one and a half especially for your core data, >> Yeah >> the ones you're not accessing every day. It results in a massive savings in terms of your infrastructure costs. And that's kind of what we're in the business doing, helping customers do better with the data they have whether it's on-prem or on the cloud, that's sort of we want to help customers be comfortable getting more data under management along with secured and the lower TCO. The other sort of big piece I'm really excited about HDP3 is all the work that's happened to Hive Community for what we call the real-time database. >> Yes. >> As you guys know, you follow the whole sequel of ours in the Doob Space. >> And hive has changed a lot in the last several years, this is very different from what it was five years ago. >> The only thing that's same from five years ago is the name (laughing) >> So again, the community has done a phenomenal job, kind of, really taking sort of a, we used to call it like a sequel engine on HDFS. From there, to drive it with 3.0, it's now like, with Hive 3 which is part of HDP3 it's a full fledged database. It's got full asset support. In fact, the asset support is so good that writing asset tables is at least as fast as writing non-asset tables now. And you can do that not only on-- >> Transactional database. >> Exactly. Now not only can you do it on prem, you can do it on S3. So you can actually drive the transactions through Hive on S3. We've done a lot of work to actually, you were there yesterday when we were talking about some of the performance work we've done with LAP and so on to actually give consistent performance both on-prem and the cloud and this is a lot of effort simply because the performance characteristics you get from the storage layer with HDFS versus S3 are significantly different. So now we have been able to bridge those with things with LAP. We've done a lot of work and sort of enhanced the security model around it, governance and security. So now you get things like account level, masking, row-level filtering, all the standard stuff that you would expect and more from an Enprise air house. We talked to a lot of our customers, they're doing, literally tens of thousands of views because they don't have the capabilities that exist in Hive now. >> Mmm-hmm 6 And I'm sitting here kind of being amazed that for an open source set of tools to have the best security and governance at this point is pretty amazing coming from where we started off. >> And it's absolutely essential for GDPR compliance and compliance HIPA and every other mandate and sensitivity that requires you to protect personally identifiable information, so very important. So in many ways HortonWorks has one of the premier big data catalogs for all manner of compliance requirements that your customers are chasing. >> Yeah, and James, you wrote about it in the contex6t of data storage studio which we introduced >> Yes. >> You know, things like consent management, having--- >> A consent portal >> A consent portal >> In which the customer can indicate the degree to which >> Exactly. >> they require controls over their management of their PII possibly to be forgotten and so forth. >> Yeah, it's going to be forgotten, it's consent even for analytics. Within the context of GDPR, you have to allow the customer to opt out of analytics, them being part of an analytic itself, right. >> Yeah. >> So things like those are now something we enable to the enhanced security models that are done in Ranger. So now, it's sort of the really cool part of what we've done now with GDPR is that we can get all these capabilities on existing data an existing applications by just adding a security policy, not rewriting It's a massive, massive, massive deal which I cannot tell you how much customers are excited about because they now understand. They were sort of freaking out that I have to go to 30, 40, 50 thousand enterprise apps6 and change them to take advantage, to actually provide consent, and try to be forgotten. The fact that you can do that now by changing a security policy with Ranger is huge for them. >> Arun, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It's always so much fun talking to you. >> Likewise. Thank you so much. >> I learned something every time I listen to you. >> Indeed, indeed. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobeilus, we will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks just after this. (Techno music)

(techno music) >> (announcer) From Berlin, Germany it's theCUBE covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Well hello, welcome to theCUBE. We're here on day two of DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin, Germany. I'm James Kobielus. I'm lead analyst for Big Data Analytics in the Wikibon team of SiliconANGLE Media. And who we have here today, we have Alan Gates whose one of the founders of Hortonworks and Hortonworks of course is the host of DataWorks Summit and he's going to be, well, hello Alan. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Hello, thank you. >> Yeah, so Alan, so you and I go way back. Essentially, what we'd like you to do first of all is just explain a little bit of the genesis of Hortonworks. Where it came from, your role as a founder from the beginning, how that's evolved over time but really how the company has evolved specifically with the folks on the community, the Hadoop community, the Open Source community. You have a deepening open source stack with you build upon with Atlas and Ranger and so forth. Gives us a sense for all of that Alan. >> Sure. So as I think it's well-known, we started as the team at Yahoo that really was driving a lot of the development of Hadoop. We were one of the major players in the Hadoop community. Worked on that for, I was in that team for four years. I think the team itself was going for about five. And it became clear that there was an opportunity to build a business around this. Some others had already started to do so. We wanted to participate in that. We worked with Yahoo to spin out Hortonworks and actually they were a great partner in that. Helped us get than spun out. And the leadership team of the Hadoop team at Yahoo became the founders of Hortonworks and brought along a number of the other engineering, a bunch of the other engineers to help get started. And really at the beginning, we were. It was Hadoop, Pig, Hive, you know, a few of the very, Hbase, the kind of, the beginning projects. So pretty small toolkit. And we were, our early customers were very engineering heavy people, or companies who knew how to take those tools and build something directly on those tools right? >> Well, you started off with the Hadoop community as a whole started off with a focus on the data engineers of the world >> Yes. >> And I think it's shifted, and confirm for me, over time that you focus increasing with your solutions on the data scientists who are doing the development of the applications, and the data stewards from what I can see at this show. >> I think it's really just a part of the adoption curve right? When you're early on that curve, you have people who are very into the technology, understand how it works, and want to dive in there. So those tend to be, as you said, the data engineering types in this space. As that curve grows out, you get, it comes wider and wider. There's still plenty of data engineers that are our customers, that are working with us but as you said, the data analysts, the BI people, data scientists, data stewards, all those people are now starting to adopt it as well. And they need different tools than the data engineers do. They don't want to sit down and write Java code or you know, some of the data scientists might want to work in Python in a notebook like Zeppelin or Jupyter but some, may want to use SQL or even Tablo or something on top of SQL to do the presentation. Of course, data stewards want tools more like Atlas to help manage all their stuff. So that does drive us to one, put more things into the toolkit so you see the addition of projects like Apache Atlas and Ranger for security and all that. Another area of growth, I would say is also the kind of data that we're focused on. So early on, we were focused on data at rest. You know, we're going to store all this stuff in HDFS and as the kind of data scene has evolved, there's a lot more focus now on a couple things. One is data, what we call data-in-motion for our HDF product where you've got in a stream manager like Kafka or something like that >> (James) Right >> So there's processing that kind of data. But now we also see a lot of data in various places. It's not just oh, okay I have a Hadoop cluster on premise at my company. I might have some here, some on premise somewhere else and I might have it in several clouds as well. >> K, your focus has shifted like the industry in general towards streaming data in multi-clouds where your, it's more stateful interactions and so forth? I think you've made investments in Apache NiFi so >> (Alan) yes. >> Give us a sense for your NiFi versus Kafka and so forth inside of your product strategy or your >> Sure. So NiFi is really focused on that data at the edge, right? So you're bringing data in from sensors, connected cars, airplane engines, all those sorts of things that are out there generating data and you need, you need to figure out what parts of the data to move upstream, what parts not to. What processing can I do here so that I don't have to move upstream? When I have a error event or a warning event, can I turn up the amount of data I'm sending in, right? Say this airplane engine is suddenly heating up maybe a little more than it's supposed to. Maybe I should ship more of the logs upstream when the plane lands and connects that I would if, otherwise. That's the kind o' thing that Apache NiFi focuses on. I'm not saying it runs in all those places by my point is, it's that kind o' edge processing. Kafka is still going to be running in a data center somewhere. It's still a pretty heavy weight technology in terms of memory and disk space and all that so it's not going to be run on some sensor somewhere. But it is that data-in-motion right? I've got millions of events streaming through a set of Kafka topics watching all that sensor data that's coming in from NiFi and reacting to it, maybe putting some of it in the data warehouse for later analysis, all those sorts of things. So that's kind o' the differentiation there between Kafka and NiFi. >> Right, right, right. So, going forward, do you see more of your customers working internet of things projects, is that, we don't often, at least in the industry of popular mind, associate Hortonworks with edge computing and so forth. Is that? >> I think that we will have more and more customers in that space. I mean, our goal is to help our customers with their data wherever it is. >> (James) Yeah. >> When it's on the edge, when it's in the data center, when it's moving in between, when it's in the cloud. All those places, that's where we want to help our customers store and process their data. Right? So, I wouldn't want to say that we're going to focus on just the edge or the internet of things but that certainly has to be part of our strategy 'cause it's has to be part of what our customers are doing. >> When I think about the Hortonworks community, now we have to broaden our understanding because you have a tight partnership with IBM which obviously is well-established, huge and global. Give us a sense for as you guys have teamed more closely with IBM, how your community has changed or broadened or shifted in its focus or has it? >> I don't know that it's shifted the focus. I mean IBM was already part of the Hadoop community. They were already contributing. Obviously, they've contributed very heavily on projects like Spark and some of those. They continue some of that contribution. So I wouldn't say that it's shifted it, it's just we are working more closely together as we both contribute to those communities, working more closely together to present solutions to our mutual customer base. But I wouldn't say it's really shifted the focus for us. >> Right, right. Now at this show, we're in Europe right now, but it doesn't matter that we're in Europe. GDPR is coming down fast and furious now. Data Steward Studio, we had the demonstration today, it was announced yesterday. And it looks like a really good tool for the main, the requirements for compliance which is discover and inventory your data which is really set up a consent portal, what I like to refer to. So the data subject can then go and make a request to have my data forgotten and so forth. Give us a sense going forward, for how or if Hortonworks, IBM, and others in your community are going to work towards greater standardization in the functional capabilities of the tools and platforms for enabling GDPR compliance. 'Cause it seems to me that you're going to need, the industry's going to need to have some reference architecture for these kind o' capabilities so that going forward, either your ecosystem of partners can build add on tools in some common, like the framework that was laid out today looks like a good basis. Is there anything that you're doing in terms of pushing towards more Open Source standardization in that area? >> Yes, there is. So actually one of my responsibilities is the technical management of our relationship with ODPI which >> (James) yes. >> Mandy Chessell referenced yesterday in her keynote and that is where we're working with IBM, with ING, with other companies to build exactly those standards. Right? Because we do want to build it around Apache Atlas. We feel like that's a good tool for the basis of that but we know one, that some people are going to want to bring their own tools to it. They're not necessarily going to want to use that one platform so we want to do it in an open way that they can still plug in their metadata repositories and communicate with others and we want to build the standards on top of that of how do you properly implement these features that GDPR requires like right to be forgotten, like you know, what are the protocols around PIII data? How do you prevent a breach? How do you respond to a breach? >> Will that all be under the umbrella of ODPI, that initiative of the partnership or will it be a separate group or? >> Well, so certainly Apache Atlas is part of Apache and remains so. What ODPI is really focused up is that next layer up of how do we engage, not the programmers 'cause programmers can gage really well at the Apache level but the next level up. We want to engage the data professionals, the people whose job it is, the compliance officers. The people who don't sit and write code and frankly if you connect them to the engineers, there's just going to be an impedance mismatch in that conversation. >> You got policy wonks and you got tech wonks so. They understand each other at the wonk level. >> That's a good way to put it. And so that's where ODPI is really coming is that group of compliance people that speak a completely different language. But we still need to get them all talking to each other as you said, so that there's specifications around. How do we do this? And what is compliance? >> Well Alan, thank you very much. We're at the end of our time for this segment. This has been great. It's been great to catch up with you and Hortonworks has been evolving very rapidly and it seems to me that, going forward, I think you're well-positioned now for the new GDPR age to take your overall solution portfolio, your partnerships, and your capabilities to the next level and really in terms of in an Open Source framework. In many ways though, you're not entirely 100% like nobody is, purely Open Source. You're still very much focused on open frameworks for building fairly scalable, very scalable solutions for enterprise deployment. Well, this has been Jim Kobielus with Alan Gates of Hortonworks here at theCUBE on theCUBE at DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin. We'll be back fairly quickly with another guest and thank you very much for watching our segment. (techno music)

>> Announcer: From Berlin, Germany, it's the Cube covering Datawork Summit Europe 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. (electronic music) >> Hello and welcome to the Cube on day two of Dataworks Summit 2018 from Berlin. It's been a great show so far. We have just completed the day two keynote and in just a moment I'll bring ya up to speed on the major points and the presentations from that. It's been a great conference. Fairly well attended here. The hallway chatter, discussion's been great. The breakouts have been stimulating. For me the takeaway is the fact that Hortonworks, the show host, has announced yesterday at the keynote, Scott Gnau, the CTO of Hortonworks announced Data Steward Studio, DSS they call it, part of the data plane, Hotronworks data plane services portfolio and it could not be more timely Data Steward Studio because we are now five weeks away from GDPR, that's the General Data Protection Regulation becoming the law of the land. When I say the land, the EU, but really any company that operates in the EU, and that includes many U.S. based and Apac based and other companies will need to comply with the GDPR as of May 25th and ongoing. In terms of protecting the personal data of EU citizens. And that means a lot of different things. Data Steward Studio announced yesterday, was demo'd today, by Hortonworks and it was a really excellent demo, and showed that it's a powerful solution for a number of things that are at the core of GDPR compliance. The demo covered the capability of the solution to discover and inventory personal data within a distributed data lake or enterprise data environment, number one. Number two, the ability of the solution to centralize consent, provide a consent portal essentially that data subjects can use then to review the data that's kept on them to make fine grain consents or withdraw consents for use in profiling of their data that they own. And then number three, the show, they demonstrated the capability of the solution then to execute the data subject to people's requests in terms of the handling of their personal data. The three main points in terms of enabling, adding the teeth to enforce GDPR in an operational setting in any company that needs to comply with GDPR. So, what we're going to see, I believe going forward in the, really in the whole global economy and in the big data space is that Hortonworks and others in the data lake industry, and there's many others, are going to need to roll out similar capabilities in their portfolios 'cause their customers are absolutely going to demand it. In fact the deadline is fast approaching, it's only five weeks away. One of the interesting take aways from the, the keynote this morning was the fact that John Kreisa, the VP for marketing at Hortonworks today, a quick survey of those in the audience a poll, asking how ready they are to comply with GDPR as of May 25th and it was a bit eye opening. I wasn't surprised, but I think it was 19 or 20%, I don't have the numbers in front of me, said that they won't be ready to comply. I believe it was something where between 20 and 30% said they will be able to comply. About 40% I'm, don't quote me on that, but a fair plurality said that they're preparing. So that, indicates that they're not entirely 100% sure that they will be able to comply 100% to the letter of the law as of May 25th. I think that's probably accurate in terms of ballpark figures. I think there's a lot of, I know there's a lot of companies, users racing for compliance by that date. And so really GDPR is definitely the headline banner, umbrella story around this event and really around the big data community world-wide right now in terms of enterprise, investments in the needed compliance software and services and capabilities are needed to comply with GDPR. That was important. That wasn't the only thing that was covered in, not only the keynotes, but in the sessions here so far. AI, clearly AI and machine learning are hot themes in terms of the innovation side of big data. There's compliance, there's GDPR, but really innovation in terms of what enterprises are doing with their data, with their analytics, they're building more and more AI and embedding that in conversational UIs and chatbots and their embedding AI, you know manner of e-commerce applications, internal applications in terms of search, as well as things like face recognition, voice recognition, and so forth and so on. So, what we've seen here at the show is what I've been seeing for quite some time is that more of the actual developers who are working with big data are the data scientists of the world. And more of the traditional coders are getting up to speed very rapidly on the new state of the art for building machine learning and deep learning AI natural language processing into their applications. That said, so Hortonworks has become a fairly substantial player in the machine learning space. In fact, you know, really across their portfolio many of the discussions here I've seen shows that everybody's buzzing about getting up to speed on frameworks for building and deploying and iterating and refining machine learning models in operational environments. So that's definitely a hot theme. And so there was an AI presentation this morning from the first gentleman that came on that laid out the broad parameters of what, what developers are doing and looking to do with data that they maintain in their lakes, training data to both build the models and train them and deploy them. So, that was also something I expected and it's good to see at Dataworks Summit that there is a substantial focus on that in addition of course to GDPR and compliance. It's been about seven years now since Hortonworks was essentially spun off of Yahoo. It's been I think about three years or so since they went IPO. And what I can see is that they are making great progress in terms of their growth, in terms of not just the finances, but their customer acquisition and their deal size and also customer satisfaction. I get a sense from talking to many of the attendees at this event that Hortonworks has become a fairly blue chip vendor, that they're really in many ways, continuing to grow their footprint of Hortonworks products and services in most of their partners, such as IBM. And from what I can see everybody was wrapped with intention around Data Steward Studio and I sensed, sort of a sigh of relief that it looks like a fairly good solution and so I have no doubt that a fair number of those in this hall right now are probably, as we say in the U.S., probably kicking the tires of DSS and probably going to expedite their adoption of it. So, with that said, we have day two here, so what we're going to have is Alan Gates, one of the founders of Hortonworks coming on in just a few minutes and I'll be interviewing him, asking about the vibrancy in the health of the community, the Hortonworks ecosystem, developers, partners, and so forth as well as of course the open source communities for Hadoop and Ranger and Atlas and so forth, the growing stack of open source code upon which Hortonworks has built their substantial portfolio of solutions. Following him we'll have John Kreisa, the VP for marketing. I'm going to ask John to give us an update on, really the, sort of the health of Hortonworks as a business in terms of the reach out to the community in terms of their messaging obviously and have him really position Hortonworks in the community in terms of who's he see them competing with. What segments is Hortonworks in now? The whole Hadoop segment increasingly... Hadoop is there. It's the foundation. The word is not invoked in the context of discussions of Hortonworks as much now as it was in the past. And the same thing for say Cloudera one of their closest to traditional rivals, closest in the sense that people associate them. I was at the Cloudera analyst event the other week in Santa Monica, California. It was the same thing. I think both of these vendors are on a similar path to become fairly substantial data warehousing and data governance suppliers to the enterprises of the world that have traditionally gone with the likes of IBM and Oracle and SAP and so forth. So I think they're, Hortonworks, has definitely evolved into a far more diversified solution provider than people realize. And that's really one of the take aways from Dataworks Summit. With that said, this is Jim Kobielus. I'm the lead analyst, I should've said that at the outset. I'm the lead analyst at SiliconANGLE's Media's Wikibon team focused on big data analytics. I'm your host this week on the Cube at Dataworks Summit Berlin. I'll close out this segment and we'll get ready to talk to the Hortonworks and IBM personnel. I understand there's a gentleman from Accenture on as well today on the Cube here at Dataworks Summit Berlin. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE, presenting Big Data Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Big Data SV in San Jose. This theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and this is day two of our wall-to-wall coverage. We've been here most of the week, had a great event last night, about 50 or 60 of our CUBE community members were here. We had a breakfast this morning where the Wikibon research team laid out it's big data forecast, the eighth big data forecast and report that we've put out, so check out that online. Jacques Nadeau is here. He is the CTO and co-founder of Dremio. Jacque, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me here. >> So we were talking a little bit about what you guys do. Three year old company. Well, let me start. Why did you co-found Dremio? >> So, it was a very simple thing I saw, so, over the last ten years or so, we saw a regression in the ability for people to get at data, so you see all these really cool technologies that came out to store data. Data lakes, you know, SQL systems, all these different things that make developers very agile with data. But what we were also seeing was a regression in the ability for analysts and data consumers to get at that data because the systems weren't designed for analysts, they were designed for data producers and developers. And we said, you know what, there needs to be a way to solve this. We need to be able to empower people to be self-sufficient again at the data consumption layer. >> Okay, so you solved that problem how, you said, called it a self-service of a data platform. >> Yeah, yeah, so self-service data platform and the idea is pretty simple. It's that, no matter where the data is physically, people should be able to interact with a logical view of it. And so, we talk a little bit like it's Google Docs for your data. So people can go into the system, they can see the different data sets that are available to them, collaborate around those, create changes to those that they can then share with other people in the organization, always dealing with the logical layer and then, behind the scenes, we have physical capabilities to interact with all the different system we interact with. But that's something that business users shouldn't have to think as much about and so, if you think about how people interact with data today, it's very much about copies. So every time you want to do something, typically you're going to make a copy. I want to reshape the data, I make a copy. I want to make it go faster, I make a copy. And those copies are very, very difficult for people to manage and they could have mixed the business meaning of data with the physical, I'm making copies to make them faster or whatever. And so our perspective is that, if you can separate away the physical concerns from the logical, then business users have a much more, much more likelihood to be able to do something self-service. >> So you're essentially virtualizing my corpus of data, independent of location, is that right, I mean-- >> It's part of what we do, yeah. No, it's part of what we do. So, the way we look at it is, is kind of several different components to try to make something self-service. It starts with, yeah, virtualize or abstract away the details of the physical, right? But then, on top of that, expose a very, sort of a very user-friendly interface that allows people to sort of catalog and understand the different things, you know, search for things that they want to interact with, and then curate things, even if they're non-technical users, right? So the goal is that, if you talk to sort of even large internet companies in the Valley, it's very hard to even hire the amount of data engineering that you need to satisfy all the requests of your end-users of data. And so the, and so the goal of Dremio is basically to figure out different tools that can provide a non-technical experience for getting at the data. So that's sort of the start of it but then the second step is, once you've got access to this thing and people can collaborate and sort of deal with the data, then you've got these huge volumes of data, right? It's big data and so how do you make that go faster? And then we have some components that we deal with, sort of, speed and acceleration. >> So maybe talk about how people are leveraging this capability, this platform, what the business impact is, what have you seen there? >> So a lot of people have this problem, which is, they have data all over the place and they're trying to figure out "How do I expose this "to my end-users?" And those end-users might be analysts, they might be data scientists, they might be product managers that are trying to figure out how their product is working. And so, what they're doing today is they're typically trying to build systems internally that, to provide these capabilities. And so, for example, working with a large auto manufacturer. And they've got a big initiative where they're trying to make the data that they have, they have huge amounts of data across all sort of different parts of the organization and they're trying to make that available to different data consumers. Now, of course, there's a bunch of security concerns that you need to have around that, but they just want to make the data more accessible. And so, what they're doing is they're using Dremio to figure out ways to, basically, catalog all the data below, expose that to the different users, applying lots of different security rules around that, and then create a bunch of reflections, which make the things go faster as people are interacting with the things. >> Well, what about the governance factor? I mean, you heard this in the hadoop world years ago. "Ah, we're going to make, we're going to harden hadoop, "we're going to" and really, there was no governance and it became more and more important. How do you guys handle that? Do you partner with people? Is it up to the customer to figure that out? Do you provide that? >> It's several different things, right? It's a complex ecosystem, right? So it's a combination of things. You start with partnering with different systems to make sure that you integrate well with those things. So the different things that control some parts of credentials inside the systems all the way down to "What's the file system permissions?", right? "What are the permissions inside of something like Hive and the metastore there?" And then other systems on top of that, like Sentry or Ranger are also exposing different credentialing, right? And so we work hard to sort of integrate with those things. On top of that, Dremio also provides a full security model inside of the sort of virtual space that we work. And so people can control the permissions, the ability to access or edit any object inside of Dremio based on user roles and LDAP and those kinds of things. So it's, it's kind of multiple layers that have to be working together. >> And tell me more about the company. So founded three years ago, I think a couple of raises, >> Yep >> who's backing you? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we founded just under three years ago. We had great initial investors, in Red Point and Lightspeed, so two great initial investors and we raised about 15 million on that round. And then we actually just closed a B round in January of this year and we added Norwest to the portfolio there. >> Awesome, so you're now in the mode of, I mean, they always say, you know, software is such a capital-efficient business but you see software companies raising, you know, 900 million dollars and so, presumably, that's to compete, to go to market and, you know, differentiate with your messaging and branding. Is that sort of what the, the phase that you're in now? You kind of developed a product, it's technically sound, it's proven in the marketspace and now you're scaling the, the go-to-market, is that right? >> That's exactly right. So, so we've had a lot of early successes, a lot of Fortune 100 companies using Dremio today. For example, we're working with TransUnion. We're working with Intel. We actually have a great relationship with OVH, which is the third-largest hosting company in the world, so a lot of great, Daimler is another one. So working with a lot of great companies, seeing sort of great early success with the product with those companies, and really looking to say "Hey, we're out here." We've got a booth for the first time at Strata here and we're sort of letting people know about, sort of, a better way, or easier way, for people to deal with data >> Yeah. >> A happier way. >> I mean, it's a crowded space, right? There's a lot of tools out there, a lot of companies. I'm interested in how you sort of differentiate. Obviously simplification is a part of that, the breadth of your capabilities. But maybe, in your words, you could share with me how you differentiate from the competition and how you break out from the noise. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's, you're absolutely right, it's a very crowded space. Everybody's using the same words and that makes it very hard for people to understand what's going on. And so, what we've found is very simple is that typically we will actually, the first meeting we deal with a customer, within the first 10 minutes we'll demo the product. Because so many technologies are technologies, not, they're not products and so you have to figure out how to use the product. You've got to figure out how you would customize it for your certain use-case. And what we've found with our product is, by making it very, very simple, people start, the light goes on in a very short amount of time and so, we also do things on our website so that you can see, in a couple of minutes, or even less than that, little animations that sort of give you a sense of what it's about. But really, it's just "Hey, this is a product "which is about", there's this light bulb that goes on, it's great. And you figure this out over the course of working with different customers, right? But there's this light bulb that goes on for people that are so confused by all the things that are going on and if we can just sit down with them, show them the product for a few minutes, all of a sudden they're like "Wait a minute, "I can use this", right? So you're frequently talking to buyers that are not the most technical parts of the organization initially, and so most of the technologies they look at are technologies that are very difficult to understand and they have to look to others to try to even understand how it would fit into their architecture. With Dremio, we have customers that can, that have installed it and gotten up, and within an hour or two, started to see real value. And that sort of excitement happens even in the demo, with most people. >> So you kind of have this bifurcated market. Since the big data meme, everybody says they're data-driven and you've got a bifurcated market in that, you've got the companies that are data-driven and you've got companies who say they're data-driven but really aren't. Who are your customers? Are they in both? Are they predominantly in the data-driven side? Are they predominantly in the trying to be data-driven? >> Well, I would say that they all would say that they're data-driven. >> Yeah, everyone, who's going to say "Well, we're not data-driven." >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say >> We're dead. >> I would say that everybody has data and they've got some ways that they're using it well and other places where they feel like they're not using it as well as they should. And so, I mean, the reason that we exist is to make it so it's easier for people to get value out of data, and so, if they were getting all the value they think they could get out of data, then we probably wouldn't exist and they would be fully data-driven. So I think that everybody, it's a journey and people are responding well to us, in part, because we're helping them down that journey. >> Well, the reason I asked that question is that we go to a lot of shows and everybody likes to throw out the digital transformation buzzword and then use Uber and Airbnb as an example, but if you dig deeper, you see that data is at the core of those companies and they're now beginning to apply machine intelligence and they're leveraging all this data that they've built up, this data architecture that they built up over the last five or 10 years. And then you've got this set of companies where all the data lives in silos and I can see you guys being able to help them. At the same time, I can see you helping the disruptors, so how do you see that? I mean, in terms of your role, in terms of affecting either digital transformations or digital disruptions. >> Well, I'd say that in either case, so we believe in a very sort of simple thing, which is that, so going back to what I said at the beginning, which is just that I see this regression in terms of data access, right? And so what happens is that, if you have a tightly-coupled system between two layers, then it becomes very difficult for people to sort of accommodate two different sets of needs. And so, the change over the last 10 years was the rise of the developer as the primary person for controlling data and that brought a huge amount of great things to it but analysis was not one of them. And there's tools that try to make that better but that's really the problem. And so our belief is very simple, which is that a new tier needs to be introduced between the consumers and the, and the producers of data. And that, and so that tier may interact with different systems, it may be more complex or whatever, for certain organizations, but the tier is necessary in all organizations because the analysts shouldn't be shaken around every time the developers change how they're doing data. >> Great. John Furrier has a saying that "Data is the new development kit", you know. He said that, I don't know, eight years ago and it's really kind of turned out to be the case. Jacques Nadeau, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate your time. >> Yeah. >> Great to meet you. Good luck and keep us informed, please. >> Yes, thanks so much for your time, I've enjoyed it. >> You're welcome. Alright, thanks for watching everybody. This is theCUBE. We're live from Big Data SV. We'll be right back. (bright music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose. It's theCUBE, presenting Big Data Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, and it's ecosystem partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE, our continuing coverage on day one of our event, Big Data SV. I'm Lisa Martin with George Gilbert. We are down the street from the Strata Data Conference. We've got a great, a lot of cool stuff going on. You can see the cool set behind me. We are at Forager Tasting Room & Eatery. Come down and join us, be in our audience today. We have a cocktail event tonight, who doesn't want to join that? And we have a nice presentation tomorrow morning of our Wikibon's 2018 Big Data Forecast and Review. Joining us next is Matthew Baird the co-founder of AtScale. Matthew, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. Fantastic venue, by the way. >> Isn't it cool? >> This is very cool. >> Yeah, it is. So, talking about Big Data, you know, Gardner says, "85% of Big Data projects have failed." I often say failure is not a bad F word, because it can spawn the genesis of a lot of great business opportunities. Data lakes were big a few years ago, turned into swamps. AtScale has this vision of Data Lake 2.0, what is that? >> So, you're right. There have been a lot of failures, there's no doubt about it. And you're also right that is how we evolve, and we're a Silicon Valley based company. We don't give up when faced with these things. It's just another way to not do something. So, what we've seen and what we've learned through our customers is they need to have a solution that is integrated with all the technologies that they've adopted in the enterprise. And it's really about, if you're going to make a data lake, you're going to have data on there that is the crown jewels of your business. How are you going to get that in the hands of your constituents, so that they can analyze it, and they can use it to make decisions? And how can we, furthermore, do that in a way that supplies governance and auditability on top of it, so that we aren't just sending data out into the ether and not knowing where it goes? We have a lot of customers in the insurance, health insurance space, and with financial customers that the data absolutely must be managed. I think one of the biggest changes is around that integration with the current technologies. There's a lot of movement into the Cloud. The new data lake is kind of focused more on these large data stores, where it was HDFS with Hadoop. Now it's S3, Google's object storage, and Azure ADLS. Those are the sorts of things that are backing the new data lake I believe. >> So if we take these, where the Data Lake Store didn't have to be something that's a open source HDFS implementation, it could even be through just through a HDSF API. >> Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. >> What are some of the, how should we think about the data sources and feeds, for this repository, and then what is it on top that we need to put to make the data more consumable? >> Yeah, that's a good point. S3, Google Object Storage, and Azure, they all have a characteristic of, they are large stores. You can store as much as you want. They generally on the Clouds, and in the open source on-prem software for landing the data exists, for streaming the data and landing it, but the important thing there is it's cost-effective. S3 is a cost-effective storage system. HDFS is a mostly cost-effective storage system. You have to manage it, so it has a slightly higher cost, but the advice has been, get it to the place you're going to store it. Store it in a unified format. You get a halo effect when you have a unified format, and I think the industry is coalescing around... I'd probably say ParK's in the lead right now, but once ParK can be read by, let's take Amazon for instance, can be read by Athena, can be read by Redshift Spectrum, it can be read by their EMR, now you have this halo effect where your data's always there, always available to be consumed by a tool or a technology that can then deliver it to your end users. >> So when we talk about ParK, we're talking about columnar serialization format, >> Matthew: Yes. but there's more on top of that that needs to be layered, so that you can, as we were talking about earlier, combine the experience of a data warehouse, and the curated >> Absolutely data access where there's guard rails, >> Matthew: Yes >> and it's simple, versus sort of the wild west, but where I capture everything in a data lake. How do you bring those two together? >> Well, specifically for AtScale, we allow you to integrate multiple data access tools in AtScale, and then we use the appropriate tool to access the data for the use case. So let me give you an example, in the Amazon case, Redshift is wonderful for accessing interactive data, which BI users want, right? They want fast queries, sub-second queries. They don't want to pay to have all the raw data necessarily stored in Redshift 'cause that's pretty expensive. So they have this Redshift spectrum, it's sitting in S3, that's cost effective. So when we go and we read raw data to build these summary tables, to deliver the data fast, we can read from Spectrum, we can put it all together, drop it into Redshift, a much smaller volume of data, so it has faster characteristics for being accessed. And it delivers it to the user that way. We do that in Hadoop when we access via Hive for building aggregate tables, but Spark or Impala, is a much faster interactive engine, so we use those. As I step back and look at this, I think the Data Lake 2.0, from a technical perspective is about abstraction, and abstraction's sort of what separates us from the animals, right? It's a concept where we can pack a lot of sophistication and complexity behind an interface that allows people to just do what they want to do. You don't know how, or maybe you do know how a car engine works, I don't really, kind of, a little bit, but I do know how to press the gas pedal and steer. >> Right. >> I don't need to know these things, and I think the Data Lake 2.0 is about, well I don't need to know how Century, or Ranger, or Atlas, or any of these technologies work. I need to know that they're there, and when I access data, they're going to be applied to that data, and they're going to deliver me the stuff that I have access to and that I can see. >> So a couple things, it sounded like I was hearing abstraction, and you said really that's kind of the key, that sounds like a differentiator for AtScale, is giving customers that abstraction they need. But I'm also curious from a data value perspective, you talked about in Redshift from an expense perspective. Do you also help customers gain abstraction by helping them evaluate value of data and where they ought to keep it, and then you give them access to it? Or is that something that they need to do, kind of bring to the table? >> We don't really care, necessarily, about the source of the data, as long as it can be expressed in a way that can be accessed by whatever engine it is. Lift and shift is an example. There's a big move to move from Teradata or from Netezza into a Cloud-based offering. People want to lift it and shift it. It's the easiest way to do this. Same table definitions, but that's not optimized necessarily for the underlying data store. Take BigQuery for example, BigQuery's an amazing piece of technology. I think there's nothing like it out there in the market today, but if you really want BigQuery to be cost-effective, and perform and scale up to concurrency of... one of our customers is going to roll out about 8,000 users on this. You have to do things in BigQuery that are BigQuery-friendly. The data structures, the way that you store the data, repeated values, those sorts of things need to be taken into consideration when you build your schema out for consumption. With AtScale they don't need to think about that, they don't need to worry about it, we do it for them. They drop the schema in the same way that it exists on their current technology, and then behind the scenes, what we're doing is we're looking at signals, we're looking at queries, we're looking at all the different ways that people access the data naturally, and then we restructure those summary tables using algorithms and statistics, and I think people would broadly call it ML type approaches, to build out something that answers those questions, and adapts over time to new questions, and new use cases. So it's really about, imagine you had the best data engineering team in the world, in a box, they're never tired, they never stop, and they're always interacting with what the customers really want, which is "Now I want to look at the data this way". >> It's sounds actually like what your talking about is you have a whole set of sources, and targets, and you understand how they operate, but why I say you, I mean your software. And so that you can take data from wherever it's coming in, and then you apply, if it's machine learning or whatever other capabilities to learn from the access methods, how to optimize that data for that engine. >> Matthew: Exactly. >> And then the end users have an optimal experience and it's almost like the data migration service that Amazon has, it's like, you give us your Postgres or Oracle database, and we'll migrate it to the cloud. It sounds like you add a lot of intelligence to that process for decision support workloads. >> Yes. >> And figure out, so now you're going to... It's not Postgres to Postgres, but it might be Teradata to Redshift, or S3, that's going to be accessed by Athena or Redshift, and then let's put that in the right format. >> I think you sort of hit something that we've noticed is very powerful, which is if you can set up, and we've done this with a number of customers, if you can set up at the abstraction layer that is AtScale, on your on-prem data, literally in, say hours, you can move it into the Cloud, obviously you have to write the detail to move it into the Cloud, but once it's in the Cloud you take the same AtScale instance, you re-point it at that new data source, and it works. We've done that with multiple customers, and it's fast and effective, and it let's you actually try out things that you may not have the agility to do before because there's differences in how the SQL dialects work, there's differences in, potentially, how the schema might be built. >> So a couple things I'm interested in, I'm hearing two A-words, that abstraction that we've talked about a number of times, you also mention adaptability. So when you're talking with customers, what are some of the key business outcomes they need to drive, where adaptability and abstraction are concerned, in terms of like cost reduction, revenue generation. What are some of those see-swee business objectives that AtScale can help companies achieve? >> So looking at, say, a customer, a large retailer on the East Coast, everybody knows the stores, they're everywhere, they sell hardware. they have a 20-terabyte cube that they use for day-to-day revenue analytics. So they do period over period analysis. When they're looking at stores, they're looking at things like, we just tried out a new marketing approach... I was talking to somebody there last week about how they have these special stores where they completely redo one area and just see how that works. They have to be able to look at those analytics, and they run those for a short amount of time. So if you're window for getting data, refreshing data, building cubes, which in the old world could take a week, you know my co-founder at Yahoo, he had a week and a half build time. That data is now two weeks old, maybe three weeks old. There might be bugs in it-- >> And the relevance might be, pshh... >> And the relevance goes down, or you can't react as fast. I've been at companies where... Speed is so important these days, and the new companies that are grasping data aggressively, putting it somewhere where they can make decisions on it on a day-to-day basis, they're winning. And they're spending... I was at a company that was spending three million dollars on pay-per-click data, a month. If you can't get data everyday, you're on the wrong campaigns, and everything goes off the rails, and you only learn about it a week later, that's 25% of your spend, right there, gone. >> So the biggest thing, sorry George, it really sounds to me like what AtScale can facilitate for probably customers in any industry is the ability to truly make data-driven business decisions that can really directly affect revenue and profit. >> Yes, and in an agile format. So, you can build-- >> That's the third A; agile, adaptability, abstraction. >> There ya go, the three A's. (Lisa laughs) We had the three V's, now we have the three A's. >> Yes. >> The fact that you're building a curated model, so in retail the calendars are complex. I'm sure everybody that uses Tableau is good at analyzing data, but they might not know what your rules are around your financial calendar, or around the hierarchies of your product. There's a lot of things that happen where you want an enterprise group of data modelers to build it, bless it, and roll it out, but then you're a user, and you say, wait, you forgot x, y, and z, I don't want to wait a week, I don't want to wait two weeks, three weeks, a month, maybe more. I want that data to be available in the model an hour later 'cause that's what I get with Tableau today. And that's where we've taken the two approaches of enterprise analytics and self-service, and tried to create a scenario where you get the best of both worlds. >> So, we know that an implication of what you're telling us is that insights are perishable, and latency is becoming more and more critical. How do you plan to work with streaming data where you've got a historical archive, but you've got fresh data coming in? But fresh could mean a variety of things. Tell us what some of those scenarios look like. >> Absolutely, I think there's two approaches to this problem, and I'm seeing both used in practice, and I'm not exactly sure, although I have some theories on which one's going to win. In one case, you are streaming everything into, sort of a... like I talked about, this data lake, S3, and you're putting it in a format like ParK, and then people are accessing it. The other way is access the data where it is. Maybe it's already in, this is a common BI scenario, you have a big data store, and then you have a dimensional data store, like Oracle has your customers, Hadoop has machine data about those customers accessing on their mobile devices or something. If there was some way to access those data without having to move the Oracle stuff into the big data store, that's a Federation story that I think we've talked about in the Bay Area for a long time, or around the world for a long time. I think we're getting closer to understanding how we can do that in practice, and have it be tenable. You don't move the big data around, you move the small data around. For data coming in from outside sources it's probably a little bit more difficult, but it is kind of a degenerate version of the same story. I would say that streaming is gaining a lot of momentum, and with what we do, we're always mapping, because of the governance piece that we've built into the product, we're always mapping where did the data come from, where did it land, and how did we use it to build summary tables. So if we build five summary tables, 'cause we're answering different types of questions, we still need to know that it goes back to this piece of data, which has these security constraints, and these audit requirements, and we always track it back to that, and we always apply those to our derived data. So when you're accessing this automatically ETLed summary tables, it just works the way it is. So I think that there are two ways that this is going to expand and I'm excited about Federation because I think the time has come. I'm also excited about streaming. I think they can serve two different use cases, and I don't actually know what the answer will be, because I've seen both in customers, it's some of the biggest customers we have. >> Well Matthew thank you so much for stopping by, and four A's, AtScale can facilitate abstraction, adaptability, and agility. >> Yes. Hashtag four A's. >> There we go. I don't even want credit for that. (laughs) >> Oh wow, I'm going to get five more followers, I know it! (George laughs) >> There ya go! >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I am Lisa Martin, we are live in San Jose, at our event Big Data SV, I'm with George Gilbert. Stick around, we'll be back with our next guest after a short break. (techno music)

>> Coming back when we were a DOS spreadsheet company. I did a short stint at Microsoft and then joined Frank Quattrone when he spun out of Morgan Stanley to create what would become the number three tech investment (upbeat music) >> Host: Live from mid-town Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering the BigData New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. (upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back, everyone. We're here, live, on day two of our three days of coverage of BigData NYC. This is our event that we put on every year. It's our fifth year doing BigData NYC in conjunction with Hadoop World which evolved into Strata Conference, which evolved into Strata Hadoop, now called Strata Data. Probably next year will be called Strata AI, but we're still theCUBE, we'll always be theCUBE and this our BigData NYC, our eighth year covering the BigData world since Hadoop World. And then as Hortonworks came on we started covering Hortonworks' data summit. >> Arun: DataWorks Summit. >> DataWorks Summit. Arun Murthy, my next guest, Co-Founder and Chief Product Officer of Hortonworks. Great to see you, looking good. >> Likewise, thank you. Thanks for having me. >> Boy, what a journey. Hadoop, years ago, >> 12 years now. >> I still remember, you guys came out of Yahoo, you guys put Hortonworks together and then since, gone public, first to go public, then Cloudera just went public. So, the Hadoop World is pretty much out there, everyone knows where it's at, it's got to nice use case, but the whole world's moved around it. You guys have been, really the first of the Hadoop players, before ever Cloudera, on this notion of data in flight, or, I call, real-time data but I think, you guys call it data-in-motion. Batch, we all know what Batch does, a lot of things to do with Batch, you can optimize it, it's not going anywhere, it's going to grow. Real-time data-in-motion's a huge deal. Give us the update. >> Absolutely, you know, we've obviously been in this space, personally, I've been in this for about 12 years now. So, we've had a lot of time to think about it. >> Host: Since you were 12? >> Yeah. (laughs) Almost. Probably look like it. So, back in 2014 and '15 when we, sort of, went public and we're started looking around, the thesis always was, yes, Hadoop is important, we're going to love you to manage lots and lots of data, but a lot of the stuff we've done since the beginning, starting with YARN and so on, was really enable the use cases beyond the whole traditional transactions and analytics. And Drop, our CO calls it, his vision's always been we've got to get into a pre-transactional world, if you will, rather than the post-transactional analytics and BIN and so on. So that's where it started. And increasingly, the obvious next step was to say, look enterprises want to be able to get insights from data, but they also want, increasingly, they want to get insights and they want to deal with it in real-time. You know while you're in you shopping cart. They want to make sure you don't abandon your shopping cart. If you were sitting at at retailer and you're on an island and you're about to walk away from a dress, you want to be able to do something about it. So, this notion of real-time is really important because it helps the enterprise connect with the customer at the point of action, if you will, and provide value right away rather than having to try to do this post-transaction. So, it's been a really important journey. We went and bought this company called Onyara, which is a bunch of geeks like us who started off with the government, built this batching NiFi thing, huge community. Its just, like, taking off at this point. It's been a fantastic thing to join hands and join the team and keep pushing in the whole streaming data style. >> There's a real, I don't mean to tangent but I do since you brought up community I wanted to bring this up. It's been the theme here this week. It's more and more obvious that the community role is becoming central, beyond open-source. We all know open-source, standing on the shoulders before us, you know. And Linux Foundation showing code numbers hitting up from $64 million to billions in the next five, ten years, exponential growth of new code coming in. So open-source certainly blew me. But now community is translating to things you start to see blockchain, very community based. That's a whole new currency market that's changing the financial landscape, ICOs and what-not, that's just one data point. Businesses, marketing communities, you're starting to see data as a fundamental thing around communities. And certainly it's going to change the vendor landscape. So you guys compare to, Cloudera and others have always been community driven. >> Yeah our philosophy has been simple. You know, more eyes and more hands are better than fewer. And it's been one of the cornerstones of our founding thesis, if you will. And you saw how that's gone on over course of six years we've been around. Super-excited to have someone like IBM join hands, it happened at DataWorks Summit in San Jose. That announcement, again, is a reflection of the fact that we've been very, very community driven and very, very ecosystem driven. >> Communities are fundamentally built on trust and partnering. >> Arun: Exactly >> Coding is pretty obvious, you code with your friends. You code with people who are good, they become your friends. There's an honor system among you. You're starting to see that in the corporate deals. So explain the dynamic there and some of the successes that you guys have had on the product side where one plus one equals more than two. One plus one equals five or three. >> You know IBM has been a great example. They've decided to focus on their strengths which is around Watson and machine learning and for us to focus on our strengths around data management, infrastructure, cloud and so on. So this combination of DSX, which is their data science work experience, along with Hortonworks is really powerful. We are seeing that over and over again. Just yesterday we announced the whole Dataplane thing, we were super excited about it. And now to get IBM to say, we'll get in our technologies and our IP, big data, whether it's big Quality or big Insights or big SEQUEL, and the word has been phenomenal. >> Well the Dataplane announcement, finally people who know me know that I hate the term data lake. I always said it's always been a data ocean. So I get redemption because now the data lakes, now it's admitting it's a horrible name but just saying stitching together the data lakes, Which is essentially a data ocean. Data lakes are out there and you can form these data lakes, or data sets, batch, whatever, but connecting them and integrating them is a huge issue, especially with security. >> And a lot of it is, it's also just pragmatism. We start off with this notion of data lake and say, hey, you got too many silos inside the enterprise in one data center, you want to put them together. But then increasingly, as Hadoop has become more and more mainstream, I can't remember the last time I had to explain what Hadoop is to somebody. As it has become mainstream, couple things have happened. One is, we talked about streaming data. We see all the time, especially with HTF. We have customers streaming data from autonomous cars. You have customers streaming from security cameras. You can put a small minify agent in a security camera or smart phone and can stream it all the way back. Then you get into physics. You're up against the laws of physics. If you have a security camera in Japan, why would you want to move it all the way to California and process it. You'd rather do it right there, right? So with this notion of a regional data center becomes really important. >> And that talks to the Edge as well. >> Exactly, right. So you want to have something in Japan that collects all of the security cameras in Tokyo, and you do analysis and push what you want back here, right. So that's physics. The other thing we are increasingly seeing is with data sovereignty rules especially things like GDPR, there's now regulation reasons where data has to naturally stay in different regions. Customer data from Germany cannot move to France or visa versa, right. >> Data governance is a huge issue and this is the problem I have with data governance. I am really looking for a solution so if you can illuminate this it would be great. So there is going to be an Equifax out there again. >> Arun: Oh, for sure. >> And the problem is, is that going to force some regulation change? So what we see is, certainly on the mugi bond side, I see it personally is that, you can almost see that something else will happen that'll force some policy regulation or governance. You don't want to screw up your data. You also don't want to rewrite your applications or rewrite you machine learning algorithms. So there's a lot of waste potential by not structuring the data properly. Can you comment on what's the preferred path? >> Absolutely, and that's why we've been working on things like Dataplane for almost a couple of years now. We is to say, you have to have data and policies which make sense, given a context. And the context is going to change by application, by usage, by compliance, by law. So, now to manage 20, 30, 50 a 100 data lakes, would it be better, not saying lakes, data ponds, >> [Host} Any Data. >> Any data >> Any data pool, stream, river, ocean, whatever. (laughs) >> Jacuzzis. Data jacuzzis, right. So what you want to do is want a holistic fabric, I like the term, you know Forrester uses, they call it the fabric. >> Host: Data fabric. >> Data fabric, right? You want a fabric over these so you can actually control and maintain governance and security centrally, but apply it with context. Last not least, is you want to do this whether it's on frame or on the cloud, or multi-cloud. So we've been working with a bank. They were probably based in Germany but for GDPR they had to stand up something in France now. They had French customers, but for a bunch of new reasons, regulation reasons, they had to sign up something in France. So they bring their own data center, then they had only the cloud provider, right, who I won't name. And they were great, things are working well. Now they want to expand the similar offering to customers in Asia. It turns out their favorite cloud vendor was not available in Asia or they were not available in time frame which made sense for the offering. So they had to go with cloud vendor two. So now although each of the vendors will do their job in terms of giving you all the security and governance and so on, the fact that you are to manage it three ways, one for OnFrame, one for cloud vendor A and B, was really hard, too hard for them. So this notion of a fabric across these things, which is Dataplane. And that, by the way, is based by all the open source technologies we love like Atlas and Ranger. By the way, that is also what IBM is betting on and what the entire ecosystem, but it seems like a no-brainer at this point. That was the kind of reason why we foresaw the need for something like a Dataplane and obviously couldn't be more excited to have something like that in the market today as a net new service that people can use. >> You get the catalogs, security controls, data integration. >> Arun: Exactly. >> Then you get the cloud, whatever, pick your cloud scenario, you can do that. Killer architecture, I liked it a lot. I guess the question I have for you personally is what's driving the product decisions at Hortonworks? And the second part of that question is, how does that change your ecosystem engagement? Because you guys have been very friendly in a partnering sense and also very good with the ecosystem. How are you guys deciding the product strategies? Does it bubble up from the community? Is there an ivory tower, let's go take that hill? >> It's both, because what typically happens is obviously we've been in the community now for a long time. Working publicly now with well over 1,000 customers not only puts a lot of responsibility on our shoulders but it's also very nice because it gives us a vantage point which is unique. That's number one. The second one we see is being in the community, also we see the fact that people are starting to solve the problems. So it's another elementary for us. So you have one as the enterprise side, we see what the enterprises are facing which is kind of where Dataplane came in, but we also saw in the community where people are starting to ask us about hey, can you do multi-cluster Atlas? Or multi-cluster Ranger? Put two and two together and say there is a real need. >> So you get some consensus. >> You get some consensus, and you also see that on the enterprise side. Last not least is when went to friends like IBM and say hey we're doing this. This is where we can position this, right. So we can actually bring in IGSC, you can bring big Quality and bring all these type, >> [Host} So things had clicked with IBM? >> Exactly. >> Rob Thomas was thinking the same thing. Bring in the power system and the horsepower. >> Exactly, yep. We announced something, for example, we have been working with the power guys and NVIDIA, for deep learning, right. That sort of stuff is what clicks if you're in the community long enough, if you have the vantage point of the enterprise long enough, it feels like the two of them click. And that's frankly, my job. >> Great, and you've got obviously the landscape. The waves are coming in. So I've got to ask you, the big waves are coming in and you're seeing people starting to get hip with the couple of key things that they got to get their hands on. They need to have the big surfboards, metaphorically speaking. They got to have some good products, big emphasis on real value. Don't give me any hype, don't give me a head fake. You know, I buy, okay, AI Wash, and people can see right through that. Alright, that's clear. But AI's great. We all cheer for AI but the reality is, everyone knows that's pretty much b.s. except for core machine learning is on the front edge of innovation. So that's cool, but value. [Laughs] Hey I've got the integrate and operationalize my data so that's the big wave that's coming. Comment on the community piece because enterprises now are realizing as open source becomes the dominant source of value for them, they are now really going to the next level. It used to be like the emerging enterprises that knew open source. The guys will volunteer and they may not go deeper in the community. But now more people in the enterprises are in open source communities, they are recruiting from open source communities, and that's impacting their business. What's your advice for someone who's been in the community of open source? Lessons you've learned, what is the best practice, from your standpoint on philosophy, how to build into the community, how to build a community model. >> Yeah, I mean, the end of the day, my best advice is to say look, the community is defined by the people who contribute. So, you get advice if you contribute. Which means, if that's the fundamental truth. Which means you have to get your legal policies and so on to a point that you can actually start to let your employees contribute. That kicks off a flywheel, where you can actually go then recruit the best talent, because the best talent wants to stand out. Github is a resume now. It is not a word doc. If you don't allow them to build that resume they're not going to come by and it's just a fundamental truth. >> It's self governing, it's reality. >> It's reality, exactly. Right and we see that over and over again. It's taken time but it as with things, the flywheel has changed enough. >> A whole new generation's coming online. If you look at the young kids coming in now, it is an amazing environment. You've got TensorFlow, all this cool stuff happening. It's just amazing. >> You, know 20 years ago that wouldn't happen because the Googles of the world won't open source it. Now increasingly, >> The secret's out, open source works. >> Yeah, (laughs) shh. >> Tell everybody. You know they know already but, This is changing some of the how H.R. works and how people collaborate, >> And the policies around it. The legal policies around contribution so, >> Arun, great to see you. Congratulations. It's been fun to watch the Hortonworks journey. I want to appreciate you and Rob Bearden for supporting theCUBE here in BigData NYC. If is wasn't for Hortonworks and Rob Bearden and your support, theCUBE would not be part of the Strata Data, which we are not allowed to broadcast into, for the record. O'Reilly Media does not allow TheCube or our analysts inside their venue. They've excluded us and that's a bummer for them. They're a closed organization. But I want to thank Hortonworks and you guys for supporting us. >> Arun: Likewise. >> We really appreciate it. >> Arun: Thanks for having me back. >> Thanks and shout out to Rob Bearden. Good luck and CPO, it's a fun job, you know, not the pressure. I got a lot of pressure. A whole lot. >> Arun: Alright, thanks. >> More Cube coverage after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Munich, Germany; it's The Cube. Covering IBM; fast-track your data. Brought to you by IBM. (upbeat techno music) >> For you here at the show, generally; and specifically, what are you doing here today? >> There's really three things going on at the show, three high level things. One is we're talking about our new... How we're repositioning our hybrid data management portfolio, specifically some announcements around DB2 in a hybrid environment, and some highly transactional offerings around DB2. We're talking about our unified governance portfolio; so actually delivering a platform for unified governance that allows our clients to interact with governance and data management kind of products in a more streamlined way, and help them actually solve a problem instead of just offering products. The third is really around data science and machine learning. Specifically we're talking about our machine learning hub that we're launching here in Germany. Prior to this we had a machine learning hub in San Francisco, Toronto, one in Asia, and now we're launching one here in Europe. >> Seth, can you describe what this hub is all about? This is a data center where you're hosting machine learning services, or is it something else? >> Yeah, so this is where clients can come and learn how to do data science. They can bring their problems, bring their data to our facilities, learn how to solve a data science problem in a more team oriented way; interacting with data scientists, machine learning engineers, basically, data engineers, developers, to solve a problem for their business around data science. These previous hubs have been completely booked, so we wanted to launch them in other areas to try and expand the capacity of them. >> You're hosting a round table today, right, on the main tent? >> Yep. >> And you got a customer on, you guys going to be talking about sort of applying practices and financial and other areas. Maybe describe that a little bit. >> We have a customer on from ING, Heinrich, who's the chief architect for ING. ING, IBM, and Horton Works have a consortium, if you would, or a framework that we're doing around Apache Atlas and Ranger, as the kind of open-source operating system for our unified governance platform. So much as IBM has positioned Spark as a unified, kind of open-source operating system for analytics, for a unified governance platform... For a governance platform to be truly unified, you need to be able to integrate metadata. The biggest challenge about connecting your data environments, if you're an enterprise that was not internet born, or cloud born, is that you have proprietary metadata platforms that all want to be the master. When everyone wants to be the master, you can't really get anything done. So what we're doing around Apache Atlas is we are setting up Apache Atlas as kind of a virtual translator, if you would, or a dictionary between all the different proprietary metadata platforms so that you can get a single unified view of your data environment across hybrid clouds, on premise, in the cloud, and across different proprietary vendor platforms. Because it's open-sourced, there are these connectors that can go in and out of the proprietary platforms. >> So Seth, you seem like you're pretty tuned in to the portfolio within the analytics group. How are you spending your time as the Chief Data Officer? How do you balance it between customer visits, maybe talking about some of the products, and then you're sort of day job? >> I actually have three days jobs. My job's actually split into kind of three pieces. The first, my primary mission, is really around transforming IBM's internal business unit, internal business workings, to use data and analytics to run our business. So kind of internal business unit transformation. Part of that business unit transformation is also making sure that we're compliant with regulations like GDBR and other regulations. Another third is really around kind of rethinking our offerings from a CDO perspective. As a CDO, and as you, Dave, I've only been with IBM for seven months. As a former client recently, and as a CDO, what is it that I want to see from IBM's offerings? We kind of hit on it a little bit with the unified governance platform, where I think IBM makes fantastic products. But as a client, if a salesperson shows up to me, I don't want them selling me a product, 'cause if I want an MDM solution, I'll call you up and say, "Hey, I need an MDM solution. "Give me a quote." What I want them showing up is saying, "I have a solution that's going to solve "your governance problem across your portfolio." Or, "I'm going to solve your data science problem." Or, "I'm going to help you master your data, "and manage your data across "all these different environments." So really working with the offering management and the Dev teams to define what are these three or four, kind of business platforms that we want to settle on? We know three of them at least, right? We know that we have a hybrid data management. We have unified governance. We have data science and machine learning, and you could think of the Z franchise as a fourth platform. >> Seth, can you net out how governance relates to data science? 'Cause there is governance of the statistical models, machine learning, and so forth, version control. I mean, in an end to end machine learning pipeline, there's various versions of various artifacts they have to be managed in a structured way. Is your unified governance bundle, or portfolio, does it address those requirements? Or just the data governance? >> Yeah, so the unified governance platform really kind of focuses today on data governance and how good data governance can be an enabler of rapid data science. So if you have your data all pre-governed, it makes it much quicker to get access to data and understand what you can and can't do with data; especially being here in Europe, in the context of the EU GDPR. You need to make sure that your data scientists are doing things that are approved by the user, because basically your data, you have to give explicit consent to allow things to be done with it. But long term vision is that... essentially the output of models is data, right? And how you use and deploy those models also need to be governed. So the long term vision is that we will have a governance platform for all those things, as well. I think it makes more sense for those things to be governed in the data science platform, if you would. And we... >> We often hear separate from GDPR and all that, is something called algorithmic accountability; that more is being discussed in policy circles, in government circles around the world, as strongly related to everything you're describing. Being able to trace the lineage of any algorithmic decision back to the data, the metadata, and so forth, and the machine learning models that might have driven it. Is that where IBM's going with this portfolio? >> I think that's the natural extension of it. We're thinking really in the context of them as two different pieces, but if you solve them both and you connect them together, then you have that problem. But I think you're absolutely right. As we're leveraging machine learning and artificial intelligence, in general, we need to be able to understand how we got to a decision, and that includes the model, the data, how the data was gathered, how the data was used and processed. So it is that entire pipeline, 'cause it is a pipeline. You're not doing machine learning or AI in a vacuum. You're doing it in the context of the data, and you're doing it in the context about the individuals or the organizations that you're trying to influence with the output of those models. >> I call it Dev ops for data science. >> Seth, in the early Hadoop days, the real headwind was complexity. It still is, by the way. We know that. Companies like IBM are trying to reduce that complexity. Spark helps a little bit So the technology will evolve, we get that. It seems like one of the other big headwinds right now is that most companies don't have a great understanding of how they can take data and monetize it, turn it into value. Most companies, many anyway, make the mistake of, "Well, I don't really want to sell my data," or, "I'm not really a data supplier." And they're kind of thinking about it, maybe not in the right way. But we seem to be entering a next wave here, where people are beginning to understand I can cut costs, I can do predictive maintenance, I can maybe not sell the data, but I can enhance what I'm doing and increase my revenue, maybe my customer retention. They seem to be tuning, more so; largely, I think 'cause of the chief data officer roles, helping them think that through. I wonder if you would give us your point of view on that narrative. >> I think what you're describing is kind of the digital transformation journey. I think the end game, as enterprises go through a digital transformation, the end game is how do I sell services, outcomes, those types of things. How do I sell an outcome to my end user? That's really the end game of a digital transformation in my mind. But before you can get to that, before you transform your business's objectives, there's a couple of intermediary steps that are required for that. The first is what you're describing, is those kind of data transformations. Enterprises need to really get a handle on their data and become data driven, and start then transforming their current business model; so how do I accelerate my current business leveraging data and analytics? I kind of frame that, that's like the data science kind of transformation aspect of the digital journey. Then the next aspect of it is how do I transform my business and change my business objectives? Part of that first step is in fact, how do I optimize my supply chain? How do I optimize my workforce? How do I optimize my goals? How do I get to my current, you know, the things that Wall Street cares about for business; how do I accelerate those, make those faster, make those better, and really put my company out in front? 'Cause really in the grand scheme of things, there's two types of companies today; there's the company that's going to be the disruptor, and there's companies that's going to get disrupted. Most companies want to be the disruptors, and it's a process to do that. >> So the accounting industry doesn't have standards around valuing data as an asset, and many of us feel as though waiting for that is a mistake. You can't wait for that. You've got to figure out on your own. But again, it seems to be somewhat of a headwind because it puts data and data value in this fuzzy category. But there are clearly the data haves and the data have-nots. What are you seeing in that regard? >> I think the first... When I was in my former role, my former company went through an exercise of valuing our data and our decisions. I'm actually doing that same exercise at IBM right now. We're going through IBM, at least in the analytics business unit, the part I'm responsible for, and going to all the leaders and saying, "What decisions are you making?" "Help me understand the decisions that you're making." "Help me understand the data you need "to make those decisions." And that does two things. Number one, it does get to the point of, how can we value the decisions? 'Cause each one of those decisions has a specific value to the company. You can assign a dollar amount to it. But it also helps you change how people in the enterprise think. Because the first time you go through and ask these questions, they talk about the dashboards they want to help them make their preconceived decisions, validated by data. They have a preconceived notion of the decision they want to make. They want the data to back it up. So they want a dashboard to help them do that. So when you come in and start having this conversation, you kind of stop them and say, "Okay, what you're describing is a dashboard. "That's not a decision. "Let's talk about the decision that you want to make, "and let's understand the real value of that decision." So you're doing two things, you're building a portfolio of decisions that then becomes to your point, Jim, about Dev ops for data science. It's your backlog for your data scientists, in the long run. You then connect those decisions to data that's required to make those, and you can extrapolate the data for each decision to the component that each piece of data makes up to it. So you can group your data logically within an enterprise; customer, product, talent, location, things like that, and you can assign a value to those based on decisions they support. >> Jim: So... >> Dave: Go ahead, please. >> As a CDO, following on that, are you also, as part of that exercise, trying to assess the value of not just the data, but of data science as a capability? Or particular data science assets, like machine learning models? In the overall scheme of things, that kind of valuation can then drive IBM's decision to ramp up their internal data science initiatives, or redeploy it, or, give me a... >> That's exactly what happened. As you build this portfolio of decisions, each decision has a value. So I am now assigning a value to the data science models that my team will build. As CDOs, CDOs are a relatively new role in many organizations. When money gets tight, they say, "What's this guy doing?" (Dave laughing) Having a portfolio of decisions that's saying, "Here's real value I'm adding..." So, number one, "Here's the value I can add in the future," and as you check off those boxes, you can kind of go and say, "Here's value I've added. "Here's where I've changed how the company's operating. "Here's where I've generated X billions of dollars "of new revenue, or cost savings, or cost avoidance, "for the enterprise." >> When you went through these exercises at your previous company, and now at IBM, are you using standardized valuation methodologies? Did you kind of develop your own, or come up with a scoring system? How'd you do that? >> I think there's some things around, like net promoter score, where there's pretty good standards on how to assign value to increases in net promoter score, or decreases in net promoter score for certain aspects of your business. In other ways, you need to kind of decide as an enterprise, how do we value our assets? Do we use a three year, five year, ten year MPV? Do we use some other metric? You need to kind of frame it in the reference that your CFO is used to talking about so that it's in the context that the company is used to talking about. Most companies, it's net present value. >> Okay, and you're measuring that on an ongoing basis. >> Seth: Yep. >> And fine tuning as you go along. Seth, we're out of time. Thanks so much for coming back in The Cube. It was great to see you. >> Seth: Yeah, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome, good luck this afternoon. >> Seth: Alright. >> Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back. Actually, let me run down the day here for you, just take a second to do that. We're going to end our Cube interviews for the morning, and then we're going to cut over to the main tent. So in about an hour, Rob Thomas is going to kick off the main tent here with a keynote, talking about where data goes next. Hilary Mason's going to be on. There's a session with Dez Blanchfield on data science as a team sport. Then the big session on changing regulations, GDPRs. Seth, you've got some customers that you're going to bring on and talk about these issues. And then, sort of balancing act, the balancing act of hybrid data. Then we're going to come back to The Cube and finish up our Cube interviews for the afternoon. There's also going to be two breakout sessions; one with Hilary Mason, and one on GDPR. You got to go to IBMgo.com and log in and register. It's all free to see those breakout sessions. Everything else is open. You don't even have to register or log in to see that. So keep it right here, everybody. Check out the main tent. Check out siliconangle.com, and of course IBMgo.com for all the action here. Fast track your data. We're live from Munich, Germany; and we'll see you a little later. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's The Cube, covering DataWorks Summit 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Welcome back to The Cube. We are live at DataWorks Summit 2017. I'm Lisa Martin with my cohost, George Gilbert. We've just come from this energetic, laser light show infused keynote, and we're very excited to be joined by one of the keynotes today, the CTO of Hortonworks, Scott Gnau. Scott, welcome back to The Cube. >> Great to be here, thanks for having me. >> Great to have you back here. One of the things that you talked about in your keynote today was collaboration. You talked about the modern data architecture and one of the things that I thought was really interesting is that now where Horton Works is, you are empowering cross-functional teams, operations managers, business analysts, data scientists, really helping enterprises drive the next generation of value creation. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Right, great. Thanks for noticing, by the way. I think the next, the important thing, kind of as a natural evolution for us as a company and as a community is, and I've seen this time and again in the tech industry, we've kind of moved from really cool breakthrough tech, more into a solutions base. So I think this whole notion is really about how we're making that natural transition. And when you think about all the cool technology and all the breakthrough algorithms and all that, that's really great, but how do we then take that and turn it to value really quickly and in a repeatable fashion. So, the notion that I launched today is really making these three personas really successful. If you can focus, combining all of the technology, usability and even some services around it, to make each of those folks more successful in their job. So I've broken it down really into three categories. We know the traditional business analyst, right? They've Sequel and they've been doing predictive modeling of structured data for a very long time, and there's a lot of value generated from that. Making the business analyst successful Hadoop inspired world is extremely valuable. And why is that? Well, it's because Hadoop actually now brings a lot more breadth of data and frankly a lot more depth of data than they've ever had access to before. But being able to communicate with that business analyst in a language they understand, Sequel, being able to make all those tools work seamlessly, is the next extension of success for the business analyst. We spent a lot of time this morning talking about data scientists, the next great frontier where you bring together lots and lots and lots and lots of data, for instance, Skin and Math and Heavy Compute, with the data scientists and really enable them to go build out that next generation of high definition kind of analytics, all right, and we're all, certainly I am, captured by the notion of self-driving cars, and you think about a self-driving car, and the success of that is purely based on the successful data science. In those cameras and those machines being able to infer images more accurately than a human being, and then make decisions about what those images mean. That's all data science, and it's all about raw processing power and lots and lots and lots of data to make those models train and more accurate than what would otherwise happen. So enabling the data scientist to be successful, obviously, that's a use case. You know, certainly voice activated, voice response kinds of systems, for better customer service; better fraud detection, you know, the cost of a false positive is a hundred times the cost of missing a fraudulent behavior, right? That's because you've irritated a really good customer. So being able to really train those models in high definition is extremely valuable. So bringing together the data, but the tool set so that data scientists can actually act as a team and collaborate and spend less of their time finding the data, and more of their time providing the models. And I said this morning, last but not least, the operations manager. This is really, really, really important. And a lot of times, especially geeks like myself, are just, ah, operations guys are just a pain in the neck. Really, really, really important. We've got data that we've never thought of. Making sure that it's secured properly, making sure that we're managing within the regulations of privacy requirements, making sure that we're governing it and making sure how that data is used, alongside our corporate mission is really important. So creating that tool set so that the operations manager can be confident in turning these massive files of data to the business analyst and to the data scientist and be confident that the company's mission, the regulation that they're working within in those jurisdictions are all in compliance. And so that's what we're building on, and that stack, of course, is built on open source Apache Atlas and open source Apache Ranger and it really makes for an enterprise grade experience. >> And a couple things to follow on to that, we've heard of this notion for years, that there is a shortage of data scientists, and now, it's such a core strategic enabler of business transformation. Is this collaboration, this team support that was talked about earlier, is this helping to spread data science across these personas to enable more of the to be data scientists? >> Yeah, I think there are two aspects to it, right? One is certainly really great data scientists are hard to find; they're scarce. They're unique creatures. And so, to the extent that we're able to combine the tool set to make the data scientists that we have more productive, and I think the numbers are astronomical, right? You could argue that, with the wrong tool set, a data scientist might spend 80% or 90% of his or her time just finding the data and only 10% working on the problem. If we can flip that around and make it 10% finding the data and 90%, that's like, in order of magnitude, more breadth of data science coverage that we get from the same pool of data scientists, so I think that from an efficiency perspective, that's really huge. The second thing, though, is that by looking at these personas and the tools that we're rolling out, can we start to package up things that the data scientists are learning and move those models into the business analysts desktop. So, now, not only is there more breadth and depth of data, but frankly, there's more depth and breadth of models that can be run, but inferred with traditional business process, which means, turning that into better decision making, turning that into better value for the business, just kind of happens automatically. So, you're leveraging the value of data scientists. >> Let me follow that up, Scott. So, if the, right now the biggest time sync for the data scientist or the data engineer is data cleansing and transformation. Where do the cloud vendors fit in in terms of having trained some very broad horizontal models in terms of vision, natural language understanding, text to speech, so where they have accumulated a lot of data assets, and then they created models that were trained and could be customized. Do you see a role for, not just mixed gen UI related models coming from the cloud vendors, but for other vendors who have data assets to provide more fully baked models so that you don't have to start from scratch? >> Absolutely. So, one of the things that I talked about also this morning is this notion, and I said it this morning, kind of opens where open community, open source, and open ecosystem, I think it's now open to the third power, right, and it's talking about open models and algorithms. And I think all of those same things are really creating a tremendous opportunity, the likes of which we've not seen before, and I think it's really driving the velocity in the market, right, so there's no, because we're collaborating in the open, things just get done faster and more efficiently, whether it be in the core open source stuff or whether it be in the open ecosystem, being able to pull tools in. Of course, the announcement earlier today, with IBMs Data Science Experience software as a framework for the data scientists to work as a team, but that thing in and of itself is also very open. You can plug in Python, you can plug in open source models and libraries, some of which were developed in the cloud and published externally. So, it's all about continued availability of open collaboration that is the hallmark of this wave of technology. >> Okay, so we have this issue of how much can we improve the productivity with better tools or with some amount of data. But then, the part that everyone's also point out, besides the cloud experience, is also the ability to operationalize the models and get them into production either in Bespoke apps or packaged apps. How's that going to sort of play out over time? >> Well, I think two things you'll see. One, certainly in the near term, again, with our collaboration with IBM and the Data Science Experience. One of the key things there is not only, not just making the data scientists be able to be more collaborative, but also the ease of which they can publish their models out into the wild. And so, kind of closing that loop to action is really important. I think, longer term, what you're going to see, and I gave a hint of this a little bit in my keynote this morning, is, I believe in five years, we'll be talking about scalability, but scalability won't be the way we think of it today, right? Oh, I have this many petabytes under management, or, petabytes. That's upkeep. But truly, scalability is going to be how many connected devices do you have interacting, and how many analytics can you actually push from model perspective, actually out to the center or out to the device to run locally. Why is that important? Think about it as a consumer with a mobile device. The time of interaction, your attention span, do you get an offer in the right time, and is that offer relevant. It can't be rules based, it has to be models based. There's no time for the electrons to move from your device across a power grid, run an analytic and have it come back. It's going to happen locally. So scalability, I believe, is going to be determined in terms of the CPU cycles and the total interconnected IOT network that you're working in. What does that mean from your original question? That means applications have to be portable, models have to be portable so that they can execute out to the edge where it's required. And so that's, obviously, part of the key technology that we're working with in Portworks Data Flow and the combination of Apache Nifi and Apache Caca and Storm to really combine that, "How do I manage, not only data in motion, but ultimately, how do I move applications and analytics to the data and not be required to move the data to the analytics?" >> So, question for you. You talked about real time offers, for example. We talk a lot about predicted analytics, advanced analytics, data wrangling. What are your thoughts on preemptive analytics? >> Well, I think that, while that sounds a little bit spooky, because we're kind of mind reading, I think those things can start to exist. Certainly because we now have access to all of the data and we have very sophisticated data science models that allow us to understand and predict behavior, yeah, the timing of real time analytics or real time offer delivery, could actually, from our human being perception, arrive before I thought about it. And isn't that really cool in a way. I'm thinking about, I need to go do X,Y,Z. Here's a relevant offer, boom. So it's no longer, I clicked here, I clicker here, I clicked here, and in five seconds I get a relevant offer, but before I even though to click, I got a relevant offer. And again, to the extent that it's relevant, it's not spooky. >> Right. >> If it's irrelevant, then you deal with all of the other downstream impact. So that, again, points to more and more and more data and more and more and more accurate and sophisticated models to make sure that that relevance exists. >> Exactly. Well, Scott Gnau, CTO of Hortonworks, thank you so much for stopping by The Cube once again. We appreciate your conversation and insights. And for George Gilbert, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube live, from day one of the DataWorks Summit in the heart of Silicon Valley. Stick around, though, we'll be right back.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Interconnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're live in Las Vegas for IBM Interconnect 2017, this is theCUBE's three-day coverage, we're in day two, wall-to-wall coverage with theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Jason Kelley, Vice President, he's a partner at IBM's Global Business Solutions, GBS Solutions and Design, part of the group that brings it all together in the digital transformation for IBM. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Grand to be here, thanks for having me. >> So, we were just talking about South by Southwest, before we kicked on the cameras, and you guys had a huge presence there. But you're an interesting part of IBM, and I want you just to make a minute to explain what you do, because everyone talks about, "Oh UX design, you're going to develop the future," it's a lot more complicated than just saying UX design. >> That's true, very true. >> There's some work involved, so take us through what this design experience concept's about, and how does it work, and why everyone's so buzzed-up about it, 'cause it's gettin' a lot of traction. >> Great question to start with, and I always get to spin that then back to you. So as you said UX, first thing that came out, you said design and UX, so tell me, when you hear design, what do you think of? Do you think of cool ties, jackets, what do you think? >> I don't know, a nice cube setup with good user-- >> A couple good lookin' guys. >> Interface on the website. >> I was thinking devices. >> Dave's tie. >> I think of cool visuals, right? I think of movies, actually. >> Okay, okay. So, they are things that give you some type of experience. >> Dave: Yeah, they create a feeling inside, an emotion, it's a motive. >> All right, okay. So, now we're headed in that direction. So take that emotion piece, set that to the side, and think about what also came out, you said device, so it's something that you use. And often when you say design now, they think of the wonderful things like-- >> John: The iPhone. >> You got it, iPhone. They say, "Oh, what wonderful design." That design evokes emotion. And so, when we think of emotion, take that and put that into business, and think about creating an elegant solution for the outcomes of the end user in a business. So, you have a business that has a problem, they need to solve it, and you want to create a solution that evokes emotion. So that as they experience, like you can't set down that phone, we don't want them to set down their IBM solutions, that's the type of design that I'm talking about. >> Jason, this is interesting, Dave and I always talk about this in theCUBE when we get into this kind of like, get into The Cloud and look down at the world, the computer industry has always been centered on how many users do you have? I mean user, are you a drug user? What kind of user are you? It's the consumer, right? So, now you're really getting at the heart of design transcending computer, a user on a terminal. They're all consumers. So this is kind of the new normal. >> That's right, the new norm is, the consumer, meaning the focus. We'll go back to your phone, you think about this consumable capabilities and that consumption. You think back when we thought were cool and you would say, "This is my home office, "and I've got my fax machine here and I've got my-- >> John: A pager! >> "I've got my pager, I've got my telephone, "I've got all these things." >> My stereo. >> You had all those, and now... Here it is. And who did this? This is the consumer. And so, having consumable solutions that a consumer would be excited about, but taking that to the enterprise, at scale. At scale, did I send someone a great text there? >> No, I was just plugging in. (Jason and John laughing) >> So that you have to-- >> It's got a cognitive energy in it, so it's designed well. (all laughing) >> Honey, bring me more milk and bread. What we do from a consumability perspective is just that: how do you make sure that you have consumer grade solutions that the enterprise can enjoy? Right? So that is key, and this is what you pivot around. >> One of the things that we also were watching last week, we were at the Big Data event that we had in Silicon Valley, you can judge 'em as Strata Hadoop is, the collision course between the big data world which tends to be analytics: Watson's got cognitive, and then The Cloud, you've got brute force blocking and tackling, Cloud under the hood, hard IT problems, in-production workloads; and then you have the cool, sexy, sizzley web app, and mobile apps, creativity, kind of comin' together. So, on one hand you got creativity, you have energy, you have emotions, all this kind of outcome-based consumer thinking, and then you got the hard scaffolding, the iron under the hood, like workloads, hard stuff. So, how do you balance that when you get into the Design Center? It's not what people might think, "Oh, they got the crazy ideas, and I'm going to do this, "change the world," but at the end of the day you got to go implement it, so take me through that process. >> So you think about implementation, and we have, here over the last four years, established 26-plus IBM Design Studios globally. And our clients love to come to those studios because they get to talk about what you're asking me here, "Look we have all these things, these piece parts, "some things new, some things legacy. "How do I take this, and how do I tie it all together?" They usually come with these business challenges and say, "Look, I have a front office, and a back office, "and I'm tyin' to get all this," we go "Wait a second. "What you've just described is really one office, "and in that one office, "at the center of all those challenges are data, typically." And you're tryin' to figure out, "How can I make this data work?" And then, as soon as you solve that problem you say, "Wait a minute, then there's business process, "that's working between the front office, "and the back office, and this middle office." And then "Oh wait, there's also then some regulation "that I have to worry about." So now, you have this crashing of these different capabilities, you have this challenge of saying, "How do I make the business architecture, "work with the technical architecture, "work with my human architecture?" And that's where design comes in, that's where you begin to weave those things together by understanding how each one of those diverse pieces of the business work in harmony. >> So Jason, what are some of your favorite examples of an outcome that drove business value? >> I'll use a great example, and it was one with a client I was just havin' a wonderful dinner with last night, the Bank of the Philippine Islands. Banking has each one of these things that I've talked about: trying be more nimble on the front end, as well as having a very complicated, and often regulated back end. This wonderful, wonderful client of IBM said, "Listen, could you come in "and help me solve my data problem? "Because we have a big data challenge." I said, "Sure, well let's understand that, "let's get under the covers of this data problem," in a design workshop with them, walking them through their end users, their end users being all the way through their enterprise, our process realized, wait a minute, it's not our data problem that we have, it's a start-up problem. We're always going to have a data problem, but we can't run like a start-up, we can't move fast, we're not as agile as we think we are. We think we do DevOps, but our DevOps hit separate from agile, and by the way, this design-thinking thinking is great, how do you weave all of that together? What they found then in their start-up was now that we know what our problem is, you've wowed us, we're wowed. But then, how do we execute? We use this term, if I can wow you, you will definitely then how me, right? So how do we do this? And this is where the design came in where we said, "Look, now let's understand how you move like a start-up," which then did get under the covers with: well we need a Cloud capability; we need to have some tooling, like Bluemix, where we can go ahead and quickly assemble those things together; and we need to understand how we can apply some of our analytics, and maybe even cognitive, towards our clients. So, that's something that started one way, here's the problem, and it's data, that really ended up another way. And as they will tell you if you were to ask Bank of Philippine Islands, they'd say, "Listen, the design doesn't stop." And what they've learned from us is that design never stops, everything's a prototype in a sense, and design only stops when the problem is solved. And I can ask you, is the problem ever solved? >> No, it's a moving train every day. >> Jason: You're never done. >> The Design Center, really Studio is a great idea, I think it's phenomenal. The question I want to kind of probe into is how much of it is therapy for the customer to kind of, "Doctor, am I okay? "I think what's goin' on with me, can you look around me?" 'Cause they're lookin' from kind of that 360 blind spot, and how to be innovative. And so, you kind of rub their shoulders, "You been doin' okay, you're going to survive," and then you got to wow them. So before you wow them, you have to kind of whip 'em into shape and get their perspective, so how much of the percentage of time is herding the cats in a therapeutic way? Or is it not a factor to then, when you get that momentum going? Take us through the psychology of the buyer, your customer, because I can almost imagine the opportunities is somewhat intoxicating these days. So you go, "Hey, I got pressure to go Cloud native, "but I know it's going to be a disaster if I do." >> You're on a great point, and I like the thought of the therapy because look, it is somewhat of a Dr. Phil moment that they have. Where you sit back and what we find client after client is that sure, we could tell them, "Here are your pain points. "We're IBM, we deal with thousands of clients every week," but that doesn't cause change. I mean, you really have to change in the way that you're acting, so you can't really, we like to use this phrase-- >> Hit the playbook, run the offense. >> That's right. >> You got to have the culture. >> And you will have some people say that you have to have a culture, so you can't think your way into a new way of acting, you have to act your way into a new way of thinking. And so that's the process, is where you bring this discovery by way of using the basics of empathy, and this is design thinking, in the core of its essence. >> Empathy, great word. Business empathy is really the challenge because, I hate to use the example of will the parachute open? You know I always say to my kids, "Pack your own parachute, learn how to pack a parachute." Not that I tease that dangerous, but it can be, I mean, security breaches are one of those things where the blind trust that's out there, and some opportunities, to Jenny's point on stage today, trust economy. >> That's very true. >> This could be a dangerous world, so you don't want to just trust the parachute's going to open. >> No, no, I will tell ya in a prior life I used a parachute, I jumped Airborne Ranger, jumped out of planes, and I always joked saying, "Hey, no one is going to get shot out, "or have to jump out of an airplane today," so it'll be fine. Well, I can laugh and joke, but you're right because you sit there and to any of our clients, it's not a joke. That trust economy that we're in is reality, and it has to be underlayed with the confidence that we can bring that to-- >> Well Cloud, I have said The Cloud which underpins all this is going to move at the speed of trust, if you don't trust The Cloud, you're not going to use it. >> Jason: Very true. >> That example you gave, I want to go back to it, 'cause we talked about the emotion. So, the emotion comes from what, the consumer experience? You know the bank, that you gave that example. So, take us through sort of what that outcome was, I mean, it was the entire experience that was reimagined? Is that right? >> Well that's exactly, the experience was when the diverse team across the bank was in one room, and going through some of the exercises we take them through to use this empathy for the enterprise. Not just for the individual, or design for a product, this is design for an entire business. As they sit there and they look across that, what they got out of that was this thought that, "Wait a second, this is very complicated "for my part of the business. "Oh but wait, your part of the business "is having similar challenges, and oh, yours as well." And then you have the aha moment you're like, "Wait, we're all having similar challenges." And this becomes the emotion, the emotion goes, "Wait a second, you've just helped me see something "that was right in front of me, it was right there." Thank you, this is the Dr. Phil moment, because then you say, "Oh well, "then we're doing this together." And you go, "Yes, now let us walk you through, "walk you through walking us through "what we might do together collaboratively," and that's where you get this new step change of action. >> So, you're a business therapist, but also can implement. >> Right, because ultimately you have to make, and we have these steps where we look at how we walk through our cycle. If you think of an infinity sign, we go through: you must understand, reflect and make. And we have those as stages of this infinity sign, that you never stop going through those loops, as we call it, the loop of understanding, reflecting and making. >> Jason, I want to talk about the, you mentioned a Dr. Phil moment, this empathy, really a legitimate thing that goes on but-- >> Yeah, you're going to think I'm Dr. Phil, right? >> But also, a lot of customers I can imagine are grounded in disappointment. I mean, the way I felt when Duke lost in the March Madness, I'm like, and then like, "Oh my God, how could they be out?" I had them goin' all the way, it kind of screws up the brackets. So, like that's IT. IT's a lot like, you know, you make a bet, and sometimes it doesn't pan out, you got to be agile. So coming into the disappointment, clients come into the Design Center, probably with either an itch they're scratching, I want to innovate, and then problems that they're trying to solve, which might be some baggage, some sort of issue. Is there a pattern that you see when you have prospects come through, and clients come through the Design Center that are consistent? Like is there a trend, a trending chart, like top three, stack-ranked, issues fall into categorically, Cloud transformation, Watson analytics, is there a trend line? And by the way, did you have Duke to go all the way? >> I thought they would. In the trend that we see, there's some common things that come to mind where a client will say, "I want to move faster." And none of these are going to be surprises: I need to move faster, okay; I need to be agile; I would love to be more innovative; I would like to take my innovation and put it in action; how do I do all of there things? And you'll find if you work with them you go, "So why?" "Why?" We play the game of 5-Whys, and eventually you get to what the true, the true need is, and that true need is to get to get an outcome very quickly, they all have something right in front of them, and it's to be agile, innovative, and out in front of the market. All of those things require what you've already called-out with the technologies, and they are just technologies, the challenge is putting them in action. >> So with the Whys, you get to the outcome, that's the real pain point, and then you settle in to a variety of solution architectural choices. >> Yes, because that architecture battle, as we hear from Jenny, it's going to be the architecture battles on cognitive, on AI and data. And finding those three areas, that's where it has to be knit together. >> Enterprise strong, data first, and cognitive to the core. >> Well said. >> See, I was listening Jenny, I've listened to all your words in your speech, and I don't need Watson for that, but I'll forget tonight after I have a few cocktails. Jason, thank you so much for comin' on theCUBE, appreciate the insight. >> I appreciate the time. >> Be safe jumping out of the airplanes. >> All right, take care guys. >> Thanks so much. More live coverage here from theCUBE after the show, stay with us, some more interviews still on day two to come. Great content here, great guests, more after the short break.

>> [Announcer] Live, from Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube, covering Spark Summit East 2017, brought to you by Data Breaks. Now, your host, Dave Alante and George Gilbert. >> Welcome back to snowy Boston everybody, this is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. Arun Murthy is here, he's the founder and vice president of engineering at Horton Works, father of YARN, can I call you that, godfather of YARN, is that fair, or? (laughs) Anyway. He's so, so modest. Welcome back to the Cube, it's great to see you. >> Pleasure to have you. >> Coming off the big keynote, (laughs) you ended the session this morning, so that was great. Glad you made it in to Boston, and uh, lot of talk about security and governance, you know we've been talking about that years, it feels like it's truly starting to come into the main stream Arun, so. >> Well I think it's just a reflection of what customers are doing with the tech now. Now, three, four years ago, a lot of it was pilots, a lot of it was, you know, people playing with the tech. But increasingly, it's about, you know, people actually applying stuff in production, having data, system of record, running workloads both on prem and on the cloud, cloud is sort of becoming more and more real at mainstream enterprises. So a lot of it means, as you take any of the examples today any interesting app will have some sort of real time data feed, it's probably coming out from a cell phone or sensor which means that data is actually not, in most cases not coming on prem, it's actually getting collected in a local cloud somewhere, it's just more cost effective, why would we put up 25 data centers if you don't have to, right? So then you got to connect that data, production data you have or customer data you have or data you might have purchased and then join them up, run some interesting analytics, do geobased real time threat detection, cyber security. A lot of it means that you need a common way to secure data, govern it, and that's where we see the action, I think it's a really good sign for the market and for the community that people are pushing on these dimensions of the broader, because, getting pushed in this dimension because it means that people are actually using it for real production work loads. >> Well in the early days of Hadoop you really didn't talk that much about cloud. >> Yeah. >> You know, and now, >> Absolutely. >> It's like, you know, duh, cloud. >> Yeah. >> It's everywhere, and of course the whole hybrid cloud thing comes into play, what are you seeing there, what are things you can do in a hybrid, you know, or on prem that you can't do in a public cloud and what's the dynamic look like? >> Well, it's definitely not an either or, right? So what we're seeing is increasingly interesting apps need data which are born in the cloud and they'll stay in the cloud, but they also need transactional data which stays on prem, you might have an EDW for example, right? >> Right. >> There's not a lot of, you know, people want to solve business problems and not just move data from one place to another, right? Or back from one place to another, so it's not interesting to move an EDW to the cloud, and similarly it's not interesting to bring your IOT data or sensor data back into on-prem, right? Just makes sense. So naturally what happens is, you know, at Hortonworks we talk of kinds of modern app or a modern data app, which means a modern data app has to spare, has to sort of, you know, it can pass both on-prem data and cloud data. >> Yeah, you talked about that in your keynote years ago. Furio said that the data is the new development kit. And now you're seeing the apps are just so dang rich, >> Exactly, exactly. >> And they have to span >> Absolutely. >> physical locations, >> Yeah. >> But then this whole thing of IOT comes up, we've been having a conversation on The Cube, last several Cubes of, okay, how much stays out, how much stays in, there's a lot of debates about that, there's reasons not to bring it in, but you talked today about some of the important stuff will come back. >> Yeah. >> So the way this is, this all is going to be, you know, there's a lot of data that should be born in the cloud and stay there, the IOT data, but then what will happen increasingly is, key summaries of the data will move back and forth, so key summaries of your EDW will move to the cloud, sometimes key summaries of your IOT data, you know, you want to do some sort of historical training in analytics, that will come back on-prem, so I think there's a bi-directional data movement, but it just won't be all the data, right? It'll be key interesting summaries of the data but not all of it. >> And a lot of times, people say well it doesn't matter where it lives, cloud should be an operating model, not a place where you put data or applications, and while that's true and we would agree with that, from a customer standpoint it matters in terms of performance and latency issues and cost and regulation, >> And security and governance. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> You need to think those things through. >> Exactly, so I mean, so that's what we're focused on, to make sure that you have a common security and governance model regardless of where data is, so you can think of it as, infrastructure you own and infrastructure you lease. >> Right. >> Right? Now, the details matter of course, when you go to the cloud you lose S3 for example or ADLS from Microsoft, but you got to make sure that there's a common sort of security governance front and top of it, in front of it, as an example one of the things that, you know, in the open source community, Ranger's a really sort of key project right now from a security authorization and authentication standpoint. We've done a lot of work with our friends at Microsoft to make sure, you can actually now manage data in Wasabi which is their object store, data stream, natively with Ranger, so you can set a policy that says only Dave can access these files, you know, George can access these columns, that sort of stuff is natively done on the Microsoft platform thanks to the relationship we have with them. >> Right. >> So that's actually really interesting for the open source communities. So you've talked about sort of commodity storage at the bottom layer and even if they're different sort of interfaces and implementations, it's still commodity storage, and now what's really helpful to customers is that they have a common security model, >> Exactly. >> Authorization, authentication, >> Authentication, lineage prominence, >> Oh okay. >> You want to make sure all of these are common sources across. >> But you've mentioned off of the different data patterns, like the stuff that might be streaming in on the cloud, what, assuming you're not putting it into just a file system or an object store, and you want to sort of merge it with >> Yeah. >> Historical data, so what are some of the data stores other than the file system, in other words, newfangled databases to manage this sort of interaction? >> So I think what you're saying is, we certainly have the raw data, the raw data is going to line up in whatever cloud native storage, >> Yeah. >> It's going to be Amazon, Wasabi, ADLS, Google Storage. But then increasingly you want, so now the patterns change so you have raw data, you have some sort of an ETL process, what's interesting in the cloud is that even the process data or, if you take the unstructured raw data and structure it, that structured data also needs to live on the cloud platform, right? The reason that's important is because A, it's cheaper to use the native platform rather than set up your own database on top of it. The other one is you also want to take advantage of all the native sources that the cloud storage provides, so for example, linking your application. So automatically data in Wasabi, you know, if you can set up a policy and easily say this structured data stable that I have of which is a summary of all the IOT activity in the last 24 hours, you can, using the cloud provider's technologies you can actually make it show up easily in Europe, like you don't have to do any work, right? So increasingly what we Hortonworks focused a lot on is to make sure that we, all of the computer engines, whether it's Spark or Hive or, you know, or MapReduce, it doesn't really matter, they're all natively working on the cloud provider's storage platform. >> [George] Okay. >> Right, so, >> Okay. >> That's a really key consideration for us. >> And the follow up to that, you know, there's a bit of a misconception that Spark replaces Hadoop, but it actually can be a processing, a compute engine for, >> Yeah. >> That can compliment or replace some of the compute engines in Hadoop, help us frame, how you talk about it with your customers. >> For us it's really simple, like in the past, the only option you had on Hadoop to do any computation was MapReduce, that was, I started working in MapReduce 11 years ago, so as you can imagine, it's a pretty good run for any technology, right? Spark is definitely the interesting sort of engine for sort of the, anything from mission learning to ETL for data on top of Hadoop. But again, what we focus a lot on is to make sure that every time we bring in, so right now, when we started on HTP, the first on HTP had about nine open source projects literally just nine. Today, the last one we shipped was 2.5, HTP 2.5 had about 27 I think, like it's a huge sort of explosion, right? But the problem with that is not just that we have 27 projects, the problem is that you're going to make sure each of the 27 work with all the 26 others. >> It's a QA nightmare. >> Exactly. So that integration is really key, so same thing with Spark, we want to make sure you have security and YARN (mumbles), like you saw in the demo today, you can now run Spark SQL but also make sure you get low level (mumbles) masking, all of the enterprise capabilities that you need, and I was at a financial services three or four weeks ago in Chicago. Today, to do equivalent of what I showed today on demo, they need literally, they have a classic ADW, and they have to maintain anywhere between 1500 to 2500 views of the same database, that's a nightmare as you can imagine. Now the fact that you can do this on the raw data using whether it's Hive or Spark or Peg or MapReduce, it doesn't really matter, it's really key, and that's the thing we push to make sure things like YARN security work across all the stacks, all the open source techs. >> So that makes life better, a simplification use case if you will, >> Yeah. >> What are some of the other use cases that you're seeing things like Spark enable? >> Machine learning is a really big one. Increasingly, every product is going to have some, people call it, machine learning and AI and deep learning, there's a lot of techniques out there, but the key part is you want to build a predictive model, in the past (mumbles) everybody want to build a model and score what's happening in the real world against model, but equally important make sure the model gets updated as more data comes in on and actually as the model scores does get smaller over time. So that's something we see all over, so for example, even within our own product, it's not just us enabling this for the customer, for example at Hortonworks we have a product called SmartSense which allows you to optimize how people use Hadoop. Where the, what are the opportunities for you to explore deficiencies within your own Hadoop system, whether it's Spark or Hive, right? So we now put mesh learning into SmartSense. And show you that customers who are running queries like you are running, Mr. Customer X, other customers like you are tuning Hadoop this way, they're running this sort of config, they're using these sort of features in Hadoop. That allows us to actually make the product itself better all the way down the pipe. >> So you're improving the scoring algorithm or you're sort of replacing it with something better? >> What we're doing there is just helping them optimize their Hadoop deploys. >> Yep. >> Right? You know, configuration and tuning and kernel settings and network settings, we do that automatically with SmartSense. >> But the customer, you talked about scoring and trying to, >> Yeah. >> They're tuning that, improving that and increasing the probability of it's accuracy, or is it? >> It's both. >> Okay. >> So the thing is what they do is, you initially come with a hypothesis, you have some amount of data, right? I'm a big believer that over time, more data, you're better off spending more, getting more data into the system than to tune that algorithm financially, right? >> Interesting, okay. >> Right, so you know, for example, you know, talk to any of the big guys on Facebook because they'll do the same, what they'll say is it's much better to get, to spend your time getting 10x data to the system and improving the model rather than spending 10x the time and improving the model itself on day one. >> Yeah, but that's a key choice, because you got to >> Exactly. >> Spend money on doing either, >> One of them. >> And you're saying go for the data. >> Go for the data. >> At least now. >> Yeah, go for data, what happens is the good part of that is it's not just the model, it's the, what you got to really get through is the entire end to end flow. >> Yeah. >> All the way from data aggregation to ingestion to collection to scoring, all that aspect, you're better off sort of walking through the paces like building the entire end to end product rather than spending time in a silo trying to make a lot of change. >> We've talked to a lot of machine learning tool vendors, application vendors, and it seems like we got to the point with Big Data where we put it in a repository then we started doing better at curating it and understanding it then starting to do a little bit exploration with business intelligence, but with machine learning, we don't have something that does this end to end, you know, from acquiring the data, building the model to operationalizing it, where are we on that, who should we look to for that? >> It's definitely very early, I mean if you look at, even the EDW space, for example, what is EDW? EDW is ingestion, ETL, and then sort of fast query layer, Olap BI, on and on and on, right? So that's the full EDW flow, I don't think as a market, I mean, it's really early in this space, not only as an overall industry, we have that end to end sort of industrialized design concept, it's going to take time, but a lot of people are ahead, you know, the Google's a world ahead, over time a lot of people will catch up. >> We got to go, I wish we had more time, I had so many other questions for you but I know time is tight in our schedule, so thanks so much Arun, >> Appreciate it. For coming on, appreciate it, alright, keep right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, it's The Cube, we're live from Spark Summit East in Boston, right back. (upbeat music)