value in jobs is probably the most rewarding >>things I've ever been involved >>in And I bring that energy to the queue because the cube is where all the ideas are and where the experts are, where the people are And I think what's most exciting about the cube is that we get to talk to people who are making things happen, entrepreneurs ceo of companies, venture capitalists, people who are really on a day in and day out basis, building great companies and the technology business is just not a lot of real time live tv coverage and and the cube is a non linear tv operation. We do everything that the T. V guys on cable don't do. We do longer interviews. We asked tougher questions. We >>ask sometimes some light questions. We talked about the person and what >>they feel about it's not prompted and scripted. It's a conversation authentic and for shows that have the cube coverage and makes the show buzz that creates excitement. More importantly, it creates great content, great digital assets that can be shared instantaneously to the world. Over 31 million people have viewed the cube and that is the result of great content, great conversations and I'm so proud to be part of a Q with great team. Hi, I'm john barrier, Thanks for watching the cube boy. >>Okay, welcome back everyone cube coverage of AWS amazon web services public sector summit in person here in Washington D. C. I'm john Kerry host of the cube with Sandy carter and Lynn martin Vm ware Vice president of government education and healthcare. Great to see you both cube alumni's although she's been on since 2014 your first time in 2018 18 2018. Great to see you. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having us. So VM ware and 80 of us have a huge partnership. We've covered that announcement when Andy and Pat nelson was the Ceo. Then a lots happened, a lot of growth. A lot of success. Congratulations. Thank you. What's the big news with AWS this year in >>public sector. So we just received our authorization to operate for Fed ramp high. Um and we actually have a lot of joint roadmap planning. You are kicking off our job today with the Department of Defense and I. L five for the defense customers is also in process. So um a lot of fruits of a long time of labor. So very excited, >>awesome. So explain what does the Fed ramp authority to operate mean? What is >>that all about? So I would say in a nutshell, it's really putting a commercial offering through the security protocols to support the federal government needs. Um and there's different layers of that depending on the end user customers. So Fed ramp i across this, across all the civilian and non classified workloads in the federal government. Um probably applicability for state, local government as well with the new state Gramp focus. Um Fed ramp. I will meet or exceed that. So it will be applicable across the other parts of the government as well and all operated, you know, in a controlled environment jointly. So you get the VM ware software stack on top of the platform from A W. S and all the services that is more VM >>ware, faster deployed usage, faster acceleration. >>Yeah, so I would say um today the government operates on VM ware across all of the government, state, local and federal, um some workloads are still on prem many and this will really accelerate that transformation journey to the cloud and be able to move workloads quicker onto the BMC on AWS platform without free architect in your >>application, without giving away any kind of VM World Secret because that's next week. What is the value proposition of VM ware cloud, on AWS? What is the, what is the, what is the main value proposition you guys see in the public >>sector? So I see three and then Sandy chime in their two, I would say, you know, the costs in general to operate In the Cloud vs on prem or significant savings, we've seen savings over 300% on some customers. Um the speed on the application movement I think is a >>huge >>unique benefit on BMC on AWS. So traditionally to move to native cloud, you have to really do a lot of application were to be able to move those workloads where on BMC on AWS to move them pretty fast. And it also leverages the investments that the government agencies have already made in their operational tools and things of that nature. So it's not like a full reinvestment for something new but really leveraging both the skill sets in the data center in the I. T. Shops and the tools and investments you've bought over the past. And then the third area I would say is really getting the agility and flexibility and speed of a cloud experience. >>What's your, what's your reaction to the partnership? >>You know, we were just talking uh in a survey to our customers and 67% of them said that the velocity of the migration really matters to them. And one of the things that we do really well together is migrate very quickly, so we have workloads that we've migrated that have taken you know weeks months uh as opposed to years as they go over, which is really powerful. And then also tomorrow VM ware is with us in a session on data led migration. We were talking about data earlier and VM ware cloud on Aws also helps to migrate over like sequel server, database oracle databases so that we can also leverage that data now on the cloud to make better decisions and >>real time decisions as >>well. It's been really interesting to watch the partnership and watching VM ware transform as well, not only the migrations are in play with the public sector, there's a lot of them, believe me, healthcare, you name every area. It's all, all those old systems are out there. You know, I'm talking about out there. But now with microservices and containers, you've got tansy and you got the whole cloud, native VM ware stack emerging that's going to allow customers to re factor This is a dynamic that is kind of under reported >>Migration is one thing. But I think, I think that the whole Tan Xue portfolio is one of the most interesting things going on in VM ware. And we also have some integration going on on D. M. C on AWS with tan to we don't have that pentagram. Yeah. For the government market, but it's on the road mapping plans and we have other customers And I would say, you know, some of my non federal government customers were able to move workloads in hours, not even days or weeks. There you go, literally back and forth. And very impressive on the BMC on AWS platform. So, um, as we expand things in with the Tan Xue platform is, you know, Sandy talked about this yesterday and our partners summit, Everyone's talking about containers and things like that. VM ware is doing a lot of investment around the cooper Netease plus the application migration work and things of that nature. >>I'd love to get you guys reaction to this comment because I've seen a lot of change. Obviously we're all seeing it. I've actually interviewed a bunch of aWS and VM ware customers and I would call um some of the categories skeptics the old school cloud holding the line. And then when the pandemic hit those skeptics flip over because they see the value. In fact I actually interviewed a skeptic who became an award winner who went on the record and said I love hey w I love the cloud. I was a skeptic because you saw the value the time to value. This is really a key dynamic. I know it's kind of thrown out a lot of digital transformation or I. T. Modernization but the agility and that kind of speed. It becomes the number one thing. What's your reaction to the skeptics converting? And then what happens >>next? Um So I think there's still a lot of folks in I. T. That our tree huggers or I call him several huggers uh um pick your term. And I think that um there is some concern about what their role will be. So I think one of the differences delivering cloud services to your internal constituents is really understand the business value of the applications and what that delivers from a mission perspective back to your client. And that's a shift for data center owners to really start thinking more from the customer mission perspective than or my servers running you know, do you have enough storage capacity blah blah blah. So I think that creates that skepticism and part of that's around what's my role going to be. So in the cloud transformation of a customer, there's all this old people part that becomes really the catalyst and I think the customers that have been very sad and really leverage that and then retool the business value back to the end users around the mission have done the best job. >>I mean we talk about this all the time, it's really hard to get the best debris partners together and then make it all work cloud, it becomes easier than doing it very bespoke or waterfall way >>Yeah, I have to say with the announcement yesterday, we're going to have a lot more partner with partners. So you and I have talked about this a few times where we bring partners together to work with each other. In fact, Lynn is going to go meet with one of those partners right after the interview um that want to really focus in on a couple of particular areas to really drive this and I think, you know, part of the, you know, as your re factoring or migrating VMro over the other big benefit is skills, people have really strong, these fear skills, the sand skills, >>operation >>operation tools Yeah. And so they want to preserve those, I think that's part of the beauty of doing VM ware cloud on Aws is you get to take those skills with you into the new world as well, >>you know, I was going to just ask the next question ai ops or day two operations, a big buzzword Yeah and that is essentially operation mindset, that devoPS DEVOps two is coming. Emily Freeman gave a keynote with our last event we had with with amazon public showcase revolution and devops devoPS 2.0 is coming which is now faster, security is built in the front end, so all these things are happening so now it's coming into the public sector with the GovCloud. So I have to ask you Lynn what are some of the big successes you've had with on the gulf cloudy, just Govcloud. >>So I would say we've had a lot of customers across the state local side especially um that weren't waiting for fed ramp and those customers were able to move like I mentioned this earlier and you guys just touched on it. So I think the benefit and the benefit, one of our best customers is Emmett Right? Absolutely mitt, God bless them. They've been on every cloud journey with VM ware since 2014 we moved in my three years now and talk about a skeptic. So although Mark is very revolutionary and tries new things, he was like oh who knows and literally when we moved those workloads it was minutes and the I. T shop day one there was no transformation work for them, it was literally using all the tools and things in that environment. So the progress of that and the growth of the applications that have been able to move their things. That took 2 to 3 years before we're all done within six months and really being able to expand those business values back out for the services that he delivers to the customers. So I think you'll see quite a bit across state, local federal government. You know, we have U. S. Marshals, thank them very much. They were our sponsor that we've been working with the last few years. We have a defense customer working with us around aisle five. >>Um you know, if we could also thank Coal Fire because Cold Fire is one of our joint partners talking about partner partners and they were played a critical role in helping BM We're cloud on AWS and get the fed ramp high certifications. >>They were R three p. O. We hired them for their exercise expertise with AWS as well as helping the BMR. >>Well the partnership with the war has been a really big success. Remember the naysayers when that was announced? Um it really has worked out well for you guys. Um I do want to ask you one more thing and we don't mind. Um One of the biggest challenges that you see the blockers or challenges from agencies moving to the cloud cover cloud because you know, people are always trying to get those blockers out of the way but it's an organizational culture is a process technology. What's your what's your take on that land. Um >>I think a lot does have to do with the people and the organizational history. I think somewhere you need a leader and a champion that really wants to change for good. I call Pat, used to call a tech for good. I love that. Right to really, you know, get things moving for the customers. I mean one of the things I'm most proud about supporting the government business in general though is really the focus on the mission is unparalleled, you know, in the sectors we support, you say, education or government or healthcare. Right? All three of those sectors, there's never any doubt on what that focuses. So I think the positives of it are like, how do you get into that change around that? And that could be systems, there's less what's VMC ON AWS as we mentioned, because the tools already in the environment so they know how to use it. But I do think there's a transformation on the data center teams and really becoming moving from technology to the business aspects a little bit more around the missions and things of that. >>What's interesting is that it's so, I mean, I actually love this environment even though it's kind of hard on everyone. Education and health care have been disrupted unprecedented ways and it's never gonna change back? Remember healthcare, hip data silos, silos, education don't spend on it. >>That education was the most remarkable part. Unbelievable. I started working in february before school started with one of the large cities everyone can guess and just the way they were able to pivot so fast was amazing and I don't think anybody, I think we did like five years of transformation in six months and it's never going to go back. >>I completely a great yes education. We just did a piece of work with CTS around the world and education is one of the most disrupted as you said health care and then the third one is government and all three of those are public sector. So the three most disruptive sectors or mission areas are in public sector which has created a lot of opportunity for us and our partnership to add value. I mean that's what we're all about right customer obsession working backwards from the customer and making sure that our partnership continues to add value to those customers >>while we love the tech action on the cube. Obviously we'd like to document and pontificate and talk about it. Digital revolution. Every application now is in play globally. Not just for I. T. But for society, public sector more than ever is the hottest area on the planet. >>Absolutely. And I would say that now our customers are looking at E. S. G. Environmental, they want to know what you're doing on sustainability. They want to know what you're doing for society. We just had a bid that came in and they wanted to understand our diversity plan and then open governance. They're looking for that openness. They're not just artificial intelligence but looking at explainable AI as well. So I think that we have a chance to impact environment societies and governance >>and you mentioned space earlier. Another way I talked with closure. I mean I'm an interview today too, but what's happening with space and what you can monitor disasters, understand how to deploy resources to areas that might have challenges, earthquakes or fires or other things. All new things are happening. >>Absolutely. And all that data people like to say, why are you spending money on space? There's so many problems here, but that data that comes from space is going to impact us here on earth. And so all the things that we're doing, all that data could be used with VM ware cloud on AWS as well. >>Well, you watch closely we got some space coverage coming. I got a big scoop. I'm gonna release soon about something behind the dark side of the moon on in terms of space sovereignty coming a lot of action, cybersecurity in space. That's really heavy right now. But >>aren't you glad that VMC cloud on AWS isn't hidden on the dark side of the moon. It's >>right on the congratulations. Thanks for coming on. You guys are doing great. Thanks for >>thanks for sharing. Congratulations. >>Okay, cube coverage here continues. AWS public sector summit in Washington D. C live for two days of coverage be right back. Thank you. Mhm. Mhm mm mm hmm.

(upbeat music) >> From New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering "Welcome To The New Edge." Brought to you by Pensando Systems. >> Hey, welcome back here ready. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are high atop Goldman Sachs in downtown Manhattan, I think it's 43 floors, for a really special event. It's the Pensando launch. It's really called welcome to the new edge and we talked about technology. We had some of the founders on but, these type of opportunities are really special to talk to some really senior leaders and we're excited to have John Chambers back on, who as you know, historic CEO of Cisco for many, many years. Has left that, is doing his own ventures he's writing books, he's investing and he's, happens to be chairman of the board of Pensando. So John, thanks for taking a few minutes with us. >> Well, more than a few minutes, I think what we talked about today is a major industry change and so to focus on that and focus about the implications will be a lot of fun. >> So let's jump into it. So, one of the things you led with earlier today was kind of these 10 year cycles and they're not exactly 10 years, but you outlined a series of them from mainframe, mini client server everybody knows kind of the sequence. What do you think it is about the 10 year kind of cycle besides the fact that it's easy and convenient for us to remember, that, kind of paces these big disruptions? >> Well, I think it has to do with once a company takes off they tend to, dominate that segment of the industry for so long that even if a creative idea came up they were just overpowering. And then toward the end of a 10 year cycle they quit reinventing themselves. And we talked earlier about the innovator's dilemma and the implications for it. Or an architecture that was designed that suddenly can't go to the next level. So I think it's probably a combination of three or four different factors, including the original incumbent who broke the glass, disrupted others, not disrupting themselves. >> Right, but you also talked about a story where you had to shift focus based on some customer feedback and you ran Cisco for a lot longer than 10 years. So how do you as a leader kind of keep your ears open to something that's a disruptive change that's not your regular best customer and your regular best salesman asking for a little bit faster, a little bit cheaper, a little bit of more the same versus the significant disruptive transformational shift? >> Well this goes back to one of my most basic views in life is I think we learn more from our setbacks or setbacks we were part of, or even the missteps or mistakes than you ever do your successes. Everybody loves to talk about successes and I'm no different there. But when you watched a great state like West Virginia that was the chemical center of the world and the coal mining center of the world, the 125,000 coal mines, six miners very well paid, 6,000 of the top engineers in the world, it was the Silicon Valley of the chemical industry and those just disappear. And because our state did not reinvent itself, because the education system didn't change, because we didn't distract attract a new set of businesses in we just kept doing the right thing too long, we got left behind. Then I went to Boston, it was the Silicon Valley of the world. And Route 128 around Boston was symbolic with the Silicon Valley and I-101 and 280 around it. And we had the top university at that time. Much like Stanford today, but MIT generating new companies. We had great companies, DEC, Wang, Data General. Probably a million jobs in the area and because we got stuck in a segment of the market, quit listening to our customers and missed the transitions, not only did we lose probably 1.2 million jobs on it, 100,000 out of DEC, 32,000 out of Wang, etc, we did not catch the next generation of technology changes. So I understand the implications if you don't disrupt yourself. But I also learned, that if you're not regularly reinventing yourself, you get left behind as a leader. And one of my toughest competitors came up to me and said, "John, I love the way you're reinventing Cisco "and how you've done that multiple times." And then I turned and I said "That's why a CEO has got to be in the job "for more than four or five years" and he said, "Now we disagree again." Which we usually did and he said, "Most people can't reinvent themselves." And he said "I'm an example." "I'm a pretty good CEO" he's actually a very good CEO, but he said, "After I've been there three or four years "I've made the changes, that I know "I've got to go somewhere else." And he could see I didn't buy-in and then he said, "How many of your top 100 people "you've been happy with once they've been "in the job for more than five years?" I hesitated and I said "Only one." And he's right, you've got to move people around, you've got to get people comfortable with disruption on it and, the hardest one to disrupt are the companies or the leaders who've been most successful and yet, that's when you got to think about disruption. >> Right, so to pivot on that a little bit in terms of kind of the government's role in jobs, specifically. >> Yes. >> We're in this really strange period of time. We have record low unemployment, right, tiny, tiny unemployment, and yet, we see automation coming in aggressively with autonomous vehicles and this and that and just to pick truck drivers as a category, everyone can clearly see that autonomous vehicles are going to knock them out in the not too distant future. That said, there's more demand for truck drivers today than there's every been and they can't fill the positions So, with this weird thing where we're going to have a bunch of new jobs that are created by technology, we're going to have a bunch of old jobs that get displaced by technology, but those people aren't necessarily the same people that can leave the one and go to the other. So as you look at that challenge, and I know you work with a lot of government leaders, how should they be thinking about taking on this challenge? >> Well, I think you've got to take it on very squarely and let's use the U.S. as an example and then I'll parallel what France is doing and what India is doing that is actually much more creative that what we are, from countries you wouldn't have anticipated. In the U.S. we know that 50% of the Fortune 500 will probably not exist in 10 years, 12 at the most. We know that the large companies will not incrementally hire people over this next decade and they've often been one of the best sources of hiring because of AI and automation will change that. So, it's not just a question of being schooled in one area and move to another, those jobs will disappear within the companies. If we don't have new jobs in startups and if we don't have the startups running at about three to four times the current volumes, we've got a real problem looking out five to 10 years. And the startups where everyone thinks we're doing a good job, the app user, third to a half of what they were two decades ago. And so if you need 25 million jobs over this next decade and your startups are at a level more like they were in the 90s, that's going to be a challenge. And so I think we've got to think from the government perspective of how we become a startup nation again, how we think about long-term job creation, how we think about job creation not taking money out of one pocket and give it to another. People want a real job, they want to have a meaningful job. We got to change our K through 12 education system which is broken, we've got to change our university system to generate the jobs for where people are going and then we've got to retrain people. That is very doable, if you got at it with a total plan and approach it from a scale perspective. That was lacking. And one of the disappointing things in the debate last night, and while I'm a republican I really want who's going to really lead us well both at the presidential level, but also within the senate, the house. Is, there was a complete lack of any vision on what the country should look like 10 years from now, and how we're going to create 25 million jobs and how we're going to create 10 million more that are going to be displaced and how we're going to re-educate people for it. It was a lot of finger pointing and transactional, but no overall plan. Modi did the reverse in India, and actually Macron, in all places, in France. Where they looked at GDP growth, job creation, startups, education changes, etc, and they executed to an overall approach. So, I'm looking for our government really to change the approach and to really say how are we going to generate jobs and how are we going to deal with the issues that are coming at us. It's a combination of all the the above. >> Yep. Let's shift gears a little bit about the education system and you're very involved and you talked about MIT. Obviously, I think Stanford and Cal are such big drivers of innovation in the Bay area because smart people go there and they don't leave. And then there's a lot of good buzz now happening in Atlanta as an investment really piggy-backing on Georgia Tech, which also creates a lot of great engineers. As you look at education, I don't want to go through K through 12, but more higher education, how do you see that evolving in today's world? It's super expensive, there's tremendous debt for the kids coming out, it doesn't necessarily train them for the new jobs. >> Where the jobs are. >> How do you see, kind of the role of higher education and that evolving into kind of this new world in which we're headed? >> Well, the good news and bad news about when I look at successful startups around the world, they're always centered around a innovative university and it isn't just about the raw horse power of the kids, It starts with the CEO of the university, the president of the university, their curriculum, their entrepreneurial approach, do they knock down the barriers across the various groups from engineering to business to law, etc? And are they thinking out of box? And if you watch, there is a huge missing piece between, Georgia Tech more of an exception, but still not running at the level they need to. And the Northeast around Boston and New York and Silicon Valley, The rest of the country's being left behind. So I'm looking for universities to completely redo their curriculum. I'm looking for it really breaking down the silos within the groups and focus on the outcomes. And much like Steve Case has done a very good job on focusing, about the Rust Belt and how do you do startups? I'm going to learn from what I saw in France at Polytechnique and the ITs in India, and what occurred in Stanford and MIT used to occur is, you've got to get the universities to be the core and that's where they kids want to stay close to, and we've got to generate a whole different curriculum, if you will, in the universities, including, continuous learning for their graduates, to be able to come back virtually and say how do I learn about re-skilling myself? >> Yeah. >> The current model is just not >> the right model >> It's broken. >> For the, for going forward. >> K through 12 is >> hopelessly broken >> Yeah. >> and the universities, while were still better than anywhere else in the world, we're still teaching, and some of the teachers and some of the books are what I could have used in college. >> Right, right >> So, we got to rethink the whole curriculum >> darn papers on the inside >> disrupt, disrupt >> So, shifting gears a little bit, you, played with lots of companies in your CEO role you guys did a ton of M&A, you're very famous for the successful M&A that you did over a number of years, but in an investor role, J2 now, you're looking at a more early stage. And you said you made a number of investments which is exciting. So, as you evaluate opportunities A. In teams that come to pitch to you >> Yeah. >> B. What are the key things you look for? >> In the sequence you've raised them, first in my prior world, I was really happy to do 180 acquisitions, in my current world, I'm reversed, I want them to go IPO. Because you add 76% of your headcount after an IPO, or after you've become a unicorn. When companies are bought, including what I bought in my prior role, their headcount growth is pretty well done. We'd add engineers after that, but would blow them through our sales channel, services, finance, etc. So, I want to see many more of these companies go public, and this goes back to national agenda about getting IPO's, not back to where they were during the 90's when it was almost two to three times, what you've seen over the last decade. But probably double, even that number the 90's, to generate the jobs we want. So, I'm very interested now about companies going public in direction. To the second part of your question, on what do I look for in startups and why, if I can bridge it, to am I so faired up about Pensando? If I look for my startups and, it's like I do acquisitions, I develop a playbook, I run that playbook faster and faster, it's how I do digitization of countries, etc. And so for a area I'm going to invest in and bet on, first thing I look at, is their market, technology transition, and business model transition occurring at the same time. That was Amazon of 15 years ago as an example. The second thing I look at, is the CEO and ideally, the whole founding team but it's usually just the CEO. The third thing I look for, is what are the customers really say about them? There's only one Steve Jobs, and it took him seven years. So, I go to the customers and say "What do you really think of this company?" Fourth thing I look for, is how close to an inflection point are they. The fifth thing I look for, is what they have in their ecosystem. Are they partnering? Things of that type. So, if I were to look at Pensando, Which is really the topic about can they bring to the market the new edge in a way that will be a market leading force for a whole decade? Through a ecosystem of partners that will change business dramatically and perhaps become the next major tech icon. It's how well you do that. Their vision in terms of market transitions, and business transitions 100% right. We've talked about it, 5G, IOT, internet of things, going from 15 billion devices to 500 billion devices in probably seven years. And, with the movement to the edge the business models will also change. And this is where, democratization, the cloud, and people able to share that power, where every technology company becomes a business becomes a, every business company becomes a technology company. >> Right. >> The other thing I look at is, the team. This is a team of six people, myself being a part of it, that thinks like one. That is so unusual, If you're lucky, you get a CEO and maybe a founder, a co-founder. This team, you've got six people who've worked together for over 20 years who think alike. The customers, you heard the discussions today. >> Right. >> And we've not talked to a single cloud player, a single enterprise company, a single insurance provider, or major technology company who doesn't say "This is very unique, let's talk about "how we work together on it." The inflection point, it's now you saw that today. >> Nobody told them it's young mans game obviously, they got the twenty-something mixed up >> No, actually were redefining (laughs) twenty-something, (laughs) but it does say, age is more perspective on how you think. >> Right, right. >> And Shimone Peres, who, passed away unfortunately, two years ago, was a very good friend. He basically said "You've got all your life "to think like a teenager, "and to really think and dream out of box." And he did it remarkably well. So, I think leaders, whether their twenty-something, or twenty-some years of experience working you've got to think that way. >> Right. So I'm curious, your take on how this has evolved, because, there was data and there was compute. And networking brought those two thing together, and you were at the heart of that. >> Mm-hmm. Now, it's getting so much more complex with edge, to get your take on edge. But, also more importantly exponential growth. You've talked about going from, how ever many millions the devices that were connected, to the billions of devices that are connected now. How do you stay? How do you help yourself think along exponential curves? Because that is not easy, and it's not human. But you have to, if you're going to try to get ahead of that next wave. >> Completely agree. And this is not just for me, how do I do it? I'm sharing it more that other people can learn and think about it perhaps the same way. The first thing is, it's always good to think of the positive, You can change the world here, the positive things, But I've also seen the negatives we talked about earlier. If you don't think that way, if you don't think that way as a leader of your company, leader of your country, or the leader of a venture group you're going to get left behind. The implications for it are really bad. The second is, you've got to say how do you catch and get a replicable playbook? The neat thing about what were talking about, whether it's by country in France, or India or the U.S., we've got replicable playbooks we know what to run. The third element is, you've got to have the courage to get outside your comfort zone. And I love change when it happens to you, I don't like it when it happens to me And I know that, So, I've got to get people around me who push me outside my comfort zone on that. And then, you've got to be able to dream and think like that teenager we talked about before. But that's what we were just with a group of customers, who were at this event. And they were asking "How do we get "this innovation into our company?" "How do we get the ability to innovate, through not just strategic partnerships with other large companies or partnerships with startups?" But "How do we build that internally?" It's comes down to the leader has to create that image and that approach. Modi's done it for 1.3 billion people in India. A vision, of the future on GDP growth. A digital country, startups, etc. If they can do it for 1.3 billion, tell me why the U.S. can not do it? (laughs) And why even small states here, can't do it. >> Yeah. Shifting gears a little bit, >> All right. >> A lot of black eyes in Silicon Valley right now, a lot of negativity going on, a lot of problems with privacy and trading data for currency and, it's been a rough road. You're way into tech for good and as you said, you can use technology for good you can use technology for bad. What are some things you're doing on the tech for good side? Because I don't think it gets the spotlight that it probably should, because it doesn't sell papers. >> Well, actually the press has been pretty good we just need to do it more on scale. Going back to Cisco days, we never had any major issues with governments. Even though there was a Snowden issue, there were a lot of implications about the power of the internet. Because we work with governments and citizens to say "What are the legitimate needs so that everybody benefits from this?" And where the things that we might have considered doing that, governments felt strongly about or the citizens wouldn't prosper from we just didn't do it. And we work with democrats and republicans alike and 90% of our nation believed tech was for good. But we worked hard on that. And today, I think you got to have more companies doing this and then, what, were doing uniquely in JC2, is were literally partnering with France on tech is for good and I'm Macron's, global tech ambassador and we focus about job creation and inclusion. Not just in Paris, or around Station F but throughout all the various regions in the country. Same thing within India, across 26 different states with Modi on how do you drive it through? And then if we can do it in France or India why can't we do it in each state in the U.S.? Partnering with West Virginia, with a very creative, president of the university there West Virginia University. With the democrats and republicans in their national senate, but also within the governor and speaker of the house and the president and senate within West Virginia, and really saying were going to change it together. And getting a model that you can then cookie cut across the U.S. if you change the curriculum, to your earlier comments. If you begin to focus on outcomes, not being an expert in one area, which is liable not to have a job >> Right. >> Ten years later. So, I'm a dreamer within that, but I think you owe an obligation to giving back, and I think they're all within our grasps >> Right >> And I think you can do, the both together. I think at JC2 we can create a billion dollar company with less than 10 people. I think you can change the world and also make a very good profit. And I think technology companies have to get back to that, you got to create more jobs than you destroy. And you can't be destroying jobs, then telling other people how to live their lives and what their politics should be. >> Yeah. >> That just doesn't work in terms of the environment. >> Well John, again, thanks for your time. Give you the last word on >> Sure >> Account of what happened here today, I mean you're here, and Tony O'Neary was here or at the headquarters of Goldman. A flagship launch customer, for the people that weren't here today why should they be paying attention? >> Well, if we've got this market transition right, the technology and business model, the next transition will be everything goes to the edge. And as every company or every government, or every person has to be both good in their "Area of expertise." or their vertical their in, they've got to also be good in technology. What happened today was a leveling of the playing field as it relates to cloud. In terms of everyone should have choice, democratization there, but also in architecture that allows people to really change their business models, as everything moves to the edge where 75% of all transactions, all data will be had and it might even be higher than that. Secondly, you saw a historic first never has anybody ever emerged from stealth after only two and a half years of existing as a company, with this type of powerhouse behind them. And you saw the players where you have a customer, Goldman Sachs, in one of the most leading edge areas, of industry change which is obviously finance leading as the customer who's driven our direction from the very beginning. And a company like NetApp, that understood the implication on storage, from two and a half years ago and drove our direction from the very beginning. A company like HP Enterprise's, who understood this could go across their whole company in terms of the implications, and the unique opportunity to really change and focus on, how do they evolve their company to provide their customer experience in a very unique way? How do you really begin to think about Equinix in terms of how they changed entirely from a source matter prospective, what they have to do in terms of the direction and capabilities? And then Lightspeed, one of the most creative intra capital that really understands this transition saying "I want to be a part of this." Including being on the board and changing the world one more time. So, what happened today? If we're right, I think this was the beginning of a major inflection point as everything moves to the edge. And how ecosystem players, with Pensando at the heart of that ecosystem, can take on the giants but also really use this technology to give everybody choice, and how they really make a difference in the future. As well as, perhaps give back to society. >> Love it. Thank you John >> My pleasure, that was fun. >> Appreciate it. You're John, I'm Jeff you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube covering your storage accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. How >> do you all how to do Dave Great Legal garden with you? Yes, I am Lisa Martin with David Lantana. And can you guess we're in Texas were at pure Accelerate 2019 Day one of our coverage here and the Buzzy Expo Hall. Pleased to welcome one of Pierre's customers to the Q B of Jason Thomas, the CEO of Coal, Scott Hussein or C. S K Legal Jason. Welcome to the program. So talk to us a little bit about si es que legal. You're based out of Florida. You're CEO. Give us a little bit of a picture of the law firm, your I T environment and your role. ISS leader of information >> So cold, Scott is saying, >> has been around >> 20 plus years. I joined about three and 1/2 years ago, Um, and we have now this one. We have 13 officers. We just opened up 13th office. We're the largest law firm in Florida currently, and only in Florida. Interestingly enough, I actually live and work out of Boston, but you know, these days there's no reason why you can't work remote. I go, they're off enoughto needed. >> You can avoid the hurricanes by living in >> a snowstorm over >> hurting any >> day because I've been a >> good pro sports in Boston. Better, better college sports in Florida. >> Yeah, No one cares about college sports. >> Best of both worlds. All right, so we're here Appear. You guys have been appear customer for a while. But give us this This picture of the legal landscape from a data volume perspective, I could imagine tons of documentation. I think you guys have hundreds of attorneys. What were some of the challenges three years ago when you were looking for the ideal long? You know, storage service is that you were really looking to four companies like your help eliminate and allow you to really deliver on the business needs. >> So we're heavy, heavy volume, business tons and tons of documents. Um, And when I came on board 39 years ago, the ever start of iron was basically a lot of physical servers, a lot of local storage which, quite frankly, scared me. I came from my previous company. I was that I came from a nap shop And that was when my first initiatives was bringing in a sand into the firm and centralizing all the storage on also setting up D r a cz. Well, along with that. So it started evaluation process pretty much within a few months, coming on board the firm. >> So you knew Netapp. Sorry, Dave. You knew Net up your pure customer perspective. Of what? For some of those things that you were looking for that when you found pure was, like, checks all the boxes. >> I can tell you what I wasn't looking for. It was I wasn't looking to hire a storage admin. So I want to find something super simple demand something that I could manage or any of the guys could manage any this this admits, could manage. So that was like starting point of the evaluation. >> So you had a bunch of sounds like discreet Dad asked direct access storage, and he said that concern you, presumably because it was hard to manage to get a handle on. So you wanted to consolidate >> way had if we had our sequel No sequel box go down down for a day, and, uh, do you ever stole from backups in previous night. Not really a good set up at the time >> in our most of your attorneys century, located in one location. Are they distributed there? >> They're spread out all across up and down floors. So we have 13 offices. So between there, they're all over the place. But a lot of work remote down, too. So that's becoming a big thing as well. So the >> reason I asked you to get the pendulum swinging right, you had almost ass, and then you went to a sin. And now this. You got the head you get cloud. I don't know if you're taking advantage of cloud, are you? >> Uh, we are actually we a lot of our software now that we've slowly start to move a lot of our main main line products to the cloud or a cloud edition of this product. So I would say we're probably 50 to 60% cloud now. >> Yes. So you were tied up in the keynotes this morning, but one of the things we heard in the key notice you could have the pure management experience. No matter where your data lives, bring the the pure cloud experience to your date on Prim and the public cloud hybrid. Is that something that's appealing to you? Is that resonate? Yeah. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. It makes it. Look, I can I can actually blogging appear one of my phone if I want to, you know, and check the room. Not that I ever do. Quite. I'll say I never really need to look at >> it. Well, your c i o. Right. I mean, you got other things to worry about. Get my I would like >> to be involved with fingers in it. >> It's interesting. So I mean, you know, a lot of time CEOs, they don't they let, but your tech I love your technical. See a lot of that. A lot of technical CEOs as well, but But also, you don't want to hire a storage admin. Correct. So you want general is to be able to deal this stuff. Okay, so you know your question. Why? Why pure? What would you look at? And >> so we looked at, um, way looked at HP street power. Big name. Um, we looked at fewer and we looked at 10 tree and I pretty much especially with three part I knew that would be management heavy so that when I toss that one out pretty quickly, not that it's not a great product. But it just wasn't for me or what I was >> the right fit. >> You're not right for us. So we came down the pier and 10 tree. I had a had a buddy who worked at another law firm, and he's like and he was like, Look, just don't even waste time just go pure And it's a phrase that I use Sometimes I stole from him, but he he's like, Dude, this is like storage crack. You'll love it. >> Storage crack. Wow, They need a T shirt. That first >> first hit's free. Okay, so that was the right fit for you. It was your peer was appear that that enticed you. That's obviously take a bit. I presume you take a lot of hair advice. >> Lot appeared, but we didn't even do a POC. >> Wow, this is this is a good period that you obviously trust. >> All right, how to >> see was the interface yet you showed me the interface on a phone call one time, and he's like, this is it. I'm like, That's it. >> What did you actually bring in. What are you using? >> I'm sorry, >> What products That you're actually using, What? Or with pure >> Oh, so I'm sorry. Um Exchange sequel. Um, that our main line, our bookkeeping time, time and building. All that that that's that's the meaning of >> all the legal absent all the legal dated the data stores. Which product from pure is that? Do you know a fan? Is it? Uh, it's the all flash array. Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Yes, it's the FBI. >> Yeah. Okay. And so, thinking about before and after hell kind of a as is and the to be how would you compare and contrast two when you brought it in the pre in the post >> your environment. >> Oh, for your business. >> That's Ah, good question. I felt more comfortable sleeping at night. You know why? Just the reliability of the ease of management. You know, if we need to bring up a volume or expanded volume, we could do it very quickly. It doesn't. It doesn't take a rocket science to do it. And from everyone I spoke to I mean, I can't I'm not I can't speak to it, but I can't. I don't I don't believe I've ever talked anybody that's had an outage or whether you raise gone down. In fact, it seems that they tell me before we even know if there's, you know, an issue. Andi. They jump on it right away. So we've never had never had now has never had an issue, never had an issue with an upgrade. It's been fantastic. That supports awesome. >> No need for a rocket scientist or a storage admin, >> and you're sleeping better. This is very, very good thing so far this interview. So in terms of the traditional storage model that you're well familiar with, as you said, you know, being very familiar with netapp it a previous role, the whole every three years. Allies like it. We've got to switch things out, disrupting operations here, comes along with the Evergreen model, and we go, How much of that is marketing and how much of that really actually means? And I know you're a big >> you're in my mind. So yeah, I was like, Oh, so I'm pre paying for support or, you know, But you know what? One side. Once I understood what it really waas and the advantages of of it inmate sentence. We didn't. We didn't I didn't think we would upgrade as much as we have already. We've already gone through to storage up, raising two controller upgrades. So that's really where where it really makes sense is when you're doing storage controller upgrade. So if you want to start our small, which we do is start a little bit small in the beginning. And then then our business grew like crazy and our storage needs expanded. So we went through at least two upgrades for years. >> So you you bring in a rare you paying basically perpetual license up front boom. And then and then you're doing the evergreen model. And then now you're on a subscription in perpetuity, is that correct? Okay, so you you essentially go from cap Ex Op X over the life cycle, and then when you add capacity, you're paying for that capacity, and then >> you just like you return the equipment, you get your money back, and then, uh, you get new equipment >> is truly non disruptive. >> We've been through to upgrades and to control operates with your major upgrades and, um, both of them we did at 5 p.m. Just not that the firm close. If I were anything but, you know, just to feel comfortable. I don't know how you do it at five, and it's okay because you know, if anything goes down from five and if no one's working right, so But here, obviously, we're always attorneys are always on and know they're really smooth. No problems. Every I mean, they got a great strategy and method to the upgrades way stayed up the entire time. >> I mean, it is a big issue for practitioners. We we've done some quantification over the years, and it was like the minimum to migrate. Honore was $50,000. When you add it all in people's time, the cost of the array, the complexity and you're saying first of all, sound reasonable, right kind of number, right? I mean, that's probably gonna make room for the conservative right. Is that essentially been eliminated? I mean, it gives you some planning, I guess are >> pretty much. And as far as the planning goes, you know, these these guys take care of all that. So when we're ready to make the switch, they just log in and do their thing, and then it's done, >> and in terms of training for yourself or your team. When you've done these two upgrades that what's that process been like? >> Log in and figure it out. I mean, >> it sounds pretty simple. >> There's not much to it. Yeah. >> So what's on the C I ose mind these days? Obviously, you don't stay awake at night now thinking about story. >> I stay awake for security, for >> talk about that data >> breach security seems like every every week. Now it it seems I'm on my Twitter feed and this is there's a new breech home. It just it's It's almost got to the point where, you know, it's just another thing that happens. >> So what's your challenge there? Is it managing all these tools? Is it knowing what to respond to it? Is it the skill sets all of the above? My >> biggest thing is, I believe in lots of redundancy. So, um, so one. Starting with the pure we have, we have a second array in another data center outside the state, so we replicate the to raise between each other. That's that's what we started with that side. We also running, you know, regular backups. We run rubric for that. And we also now have just oh, establishing cloud strategy for backups. Immutable. Um, long, long retention. So we also send our backup to the cloud as well. So now I'm feeling like I can sleep. Probably can sleep late now. I just gotta wait for somebody for something to happen, I guess, and makes sure, and hopefully your strategy is pretty solid here. >> Okay, so D r and backup are part of that overall data protection and security strategy that extends obviously into the perimeter device, etcetera, etcetera. So you have a SEC ops team. How do you weigh? >> Don't have a dedicated no. See. So, >> Well, you're the C cell. >> I'm exactly exactly so. Sher Sher bulls with a small group of us that are also the security team. And we've got a pretty I think we've got at this point a pretty solid security sack. Always room for improvement. Always looking at the new stuff. What's out there? I mean, there's all kinds of cool tech out there. Sometimes I get a little overboard with the team, gets a little upset with me because, you know, I just want to see I want to do another POC, and they're like we have three running. >> Okay, Like you guys have a pretty solid foundation running on pure that you stone to me, like, kind of appear customer for life. So they should at least give you a T shirt. Um, Adam, >> give me atleast >> a T shirt. >> I'll tell you one what really sold me within the first year was we had a We had a B m that wouldn't wouldn't boot up and we couldn't figure out what was going on. So we thought initially thought was a V m where issue and so we call support and you can really figure out. They said it was a pure issue. We call so decide to call Pure. One night I was 89 o'clock at night and decide to give it a shot, and the guy got on the phone and come to find. Now there was some issue with the data stores of'em where it was crossed, her data stores and one was deleted. Oh, apparently maybe me had deleted a small data store that had nothing on it, but apparently it was linked to the data store. This b m for some unknown reason known. Behold, bmr issue. But the guy on the line actually knew of resource within pure. That was That was a big bm weren't guy and he came in. He actually logged in and help us unlinked to data stores. So totally not appear issue. But, you know, he went the extra mile to help us recover that GM gotta back up the same night. >> You know, we got to go, But I ask you a question. You work. You have a lot of vendors you've experienced. What, Avengers do that really tick you off? That they should stop doing? How's your chance? >> I don't like the term road map. >> Really? >> Any time I hear road map, it means, you know >> we don't have it. You >> don't have >> yet, >> But we're gonna look into that so don't do business with people that have no road. >> Jason, thank you so much for share your candor with David. Me on the key. We appreciate it. Congratulations on all your success. >> Thank you >> for David. Dante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube at pure accelerate 19. Thanks for watching

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone to Cubes. Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts for eight of us reinforced Amazon Web service is inaugural event around Cloud Security. I'm Jeffrey Day Volante. Two days of coverage. We're winding down Day two. We're excited to have a year in The Cube Special guest, part of Big and that one of the big announcements. Well, I think it's big. Nerdy Announcement is the automated reasoning. Byron Cook, director of the Automated Reasoning Group within AWS. Again, this is part of the team that's gonna help figure out security use automation to augment humans. Great to have you on big part of show here. Thanks very much to explain the automated reasoning group. Verner Vogel had a great block post on All things distributed applies formal verification techniques in an innovative way to cloud security and compliance for our customers. For our own there's developers. What does that mean? Your math? >> Yeah, let me try. I'll give you one explanation, and if I puzzle, you all try to explain a different way. 300 So do you know the Pythagorean Theorem? Yeah, sure, Yeah. So? So that the path I agree in theory is about all triangles that was proved in approximately B. C. It's the proof is a finite description in logic as to why it's true and holds for all possible triangles. So we're basically using This same approach is to prove properties of policies of networks of programs, for example, crypto virtualization, the storage, et cetera. So we write software. This finds proofs in mathematics and this the proofs are the same as what you could found for thuggery and should apply into >> solve problems that become these mundane tasks of checking config files, making sure things are that worries kind of that's I'll give you an example. So so that's two in which is the T. L s implementation used, for example, in history. But the large majority >> of AWS has approximately 12,000 state holding elements, so that with if you include the stack of the heat usage, so the number >> of possible >> states it could reach us to to the 12,000. And if you wanted to show that the T. L s handshake Implementation is correct or the H Mac implementation is correct. Deterministic random bit generator implementation is correct, which is what we do using conventional methods like trying to run tests on it. So you would need, if you have, like, 1,000,000 has, well, microprocessors and you would need many more lifetimes in the sun is gonna admit light at 3.4 $4,000,000,000 a year to test to exhaustively test the system. So what we do is we rather than just running a bunch of inputs on the code, we we represent that as the mathematical system and then we use proof techniques, auto automatically search for a proof and with our tools, we in about 10 minutes or able to prove all those properties of s two in the way of your intimidates. And then we apply that to pieces of s three pieces of easy to virtual ization infrastructure on. Then, uh, what we've done is we've realized that customers had a lot of questions about their networks and their policies. So, for example, they have a complicated network worldwide different different availability zones, different regions on. They want to ask. Hey, does there exist away for this machine to connect to this other machine. Oh, are you know, to do all this all SS H traffic coming in that eventually gets to my Web server, go through a bastion host, which is the best, best practice. And then we can answer that question again, using logic. So we take the representation that semantics of easy to networking the policy, the network from the customer, and then the question we're asking, expressing logic. And we throw a big through their call ifthere improver, get the answer back. And then same for policy. >> So you're analyzing policies, >> policies, networks, programs, >> networks, connections. Yeah, right. And it to the tooling is sell cova. Eso >> eso eso basically way come with We come with an approach and then we have many tools that implement the approach on different, different problems. That's how you apply Volkova all underneath. It's all uses of a kind of tool called SMT inside. So there's a south's over, uh, proves theorems about formula and proposition. A logic and SMT is sat modular theories. Those tools can prove properties of problems expressed in first order logic. And so what we do is we take the, for example, if you have a question about your policies answering, answering semantic level questions about policies is actually a piece space problem. So that's harder than NP complete. We express the question in logic and then call the silvery and they get their answer back on Marshall it back. And that's what Volkova does. So that's calling a tool called CVC four, which is which is an open source. Prove er and we wenzel Koval. We take the policy three question encoded to logic. Call a Silver and Marshall answer back. >> What's the What's the root of this? I mean, presumably there's some academic research that was done. You guys were applying it for your specific use case, But can you share with this kind of He's the origination of this. >> So the first Impey complete problem was discovered by a cook and not not me. Another cook the early seventies on. So he proved that the proposition a ll satisfy ability problem is impeccably and meanwhile, there's been a lot of research from the sixties. So Davis and Putnam, for example, I think a paper from the mid sixties where they were, we're trying to answer the question of can we efficiently solved this NP complete problem proposition will satisfy ability on that. Researchers continue. There have been a bunch of breakthroughs, and so now we're really starting to see very from. There's a big breakthrough in 2001 on, then some and then some further breakthroughs in the 5 4008 range. So what we're seeing is that the solvers air getting better and better. So there's an international competition of Let's Save, usually about 30 silvers. And there's a study recently where they took all of the winners from this competition each year 2001 5 4008 30 2002 to 2011 and compared them on the same bench marks and hardware, and the 2002 silver is able to solve 1/4 of the benchmarks in the 2011 solved practically all of them and then the the 2019 silvers, or even better. Nowadays they can take problems and logic that have many tens of millions of variables and solve them very efficiently. So we're really using the power of those underlying solvers and marshaling the questions to those to those overs, codifying thinking math. And that's the math. The hour is you gave a talk in one sessions around provable security. Kind of the title proves provable. >> What's what is that? What is that? Intel. Can you just explain that concept and sure, in the top surfaces. So, uh, uh, >> so mathematical logic. You know, it's 2000 years old, right? So and has refined Sobule, for example, made logic less of a philosophical thing and more of a mathematical thing. Uh, and and then automated reasoning was sort of developed in the sixties, where you take algorithms and apply algorithms to find proofs and mathematical logic. And then provable security is the application of automated reasoning to questions and security and compliance. So we you wanna prove absence of memory, corruption errors and C code You won't approve termination of of event handling routines that are supposed to handle security events. All of those questions, their properties of your program. And you can use these tools to automatically or uh oh, our find proofs and then check The proofs have been found manually. That's what that's >> where approvable security fix. What was the makeup of the attendee list where people dropping this where people excited was all bunch of math geeks. You have a cross section of great security people here, and they're deep dive conversations Not like reinvent this show. This is really deep security. What was some of the feedback and makeup of the attendees? >> Give you two answers because I actually gave to talks. And the and the answers are a little bit different because the subject of the talk So there was one unprovable security, which was a basically the foundation of logic And how we how Cheers since Volkova and our program, because we also prove correctness of crypto and so on. So those tools and so that was largely a, uh uh, folks who had heard about it. And we're wanting to know more, and we're and we're going to know how we're using it and trying to learn there was a second talk, which was about the application of it to compliance. So that was with Tomic, Andrew, who is the CEO of Coal Fire, one of the third party auditors that AWS uses in a lot of customers used and also Chad Wolf, who's vice president of security, focused on compliance. And so the three of us spoke about how we're using it internally within eight of us to automate, >> uh, >> certification compliance, sort of a commission on. So that crowd was really interesting mixture of people interested in automated reasoning and people interested in compliance, which are two communities you wouldn't think normally hang together. But that's sort of like chocolate and peanut butter. It turns out to be a really great application, >> and they need to work together to, because it is the world. The action is they don't get stuck in the compliance and auditing fools engineering teams emerging with old school compliance nerds. So there's a really interesting, uh, sort of dynamic to proof that has a like the perfect use casing compliance. So the problem of like proving termination of programs is undecided ble proving problems and proposition a logic is np complete as all that sounds very hard, difficult and you use dearest six to solve this problem. But the thing is that once you've found a proof replaying, the proof is linear and size of the proof, so actually you could do extremely efficiently, and that has application and compliance. So one could imagine that you have, for example, PC I hip fed ramp. You have certain controls that you want to prove that the property like, for example, within a W s. We have a control that all data dressed must be encrypted. So we are using program verification tools, too. Show that of the code base. But now, once we've run that tool that constructs a proof like Euclid founded the sectarian serum that you can package up in a file hand to an auditor. And then a very simple, easy to understand third party open source tool could replay that proof. And so that becomes audit evidence. It's a scale of total examples >> wth e engineering problem. You're solving a security at scale. The business problem. You're solving it. Yeah. His customers are struggling. Just implementing There just >> aren't enough security professionals to hire right? So the old day is, the talk explains. It's out there all on YouTube's. The people watching the show can go check it out. But I am by the way I should I should make a plug for if you Google a W s provable security. There's a Web page on eight of us that has papers and videos and lots of information, so you might wanna check that out. I can't remember what I was answering now, but >> it's got links to the academic as >> well. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was the point that Tommy Kendra is pointing out, as in the old days, you would do an audit would come in to be a couple minutes box that we win this box. You check a few things to be a little network. Great. But now you have machines across the world, extremely complex networks, interaction between policies, networks, crypto, etcetera. And so there's There's no way a human or even a team of human could come in and have any reasonable chance of actually deeply understanding the system. So they just sort of check some stuff and then they call it success. And these tools really allow you to actually understand the entire system buyer and you guys doing some cutting edge work, >> folks watching and want to know how math translates into the real world with all your high school kids out their parents. This is stuff you learn in school like you could be played great work. I think I think this is cutting edge. I think math and the confidence of math intersects with groups. The compliance example audited example shows that world's gonna come together with math. I think this is a big mega trend. It's gonna not eliminate the human element. It's going augment that so great stuff, its final question just randomly. And while you're here, since your math guru we're always interested, we always covering our favorite topic of Blockchain, huh? We believe that a security conference is gonna soon have a Blockchain component because because of the mutability of it, there's a lot of math behind it. So as that starts to mature certainly Facebook entering him at their own currency. Whole nother conversation you don't want to have here is bring a lot of attention. So we see the intersection of security being a supply chain problem in the future. Your thoughts on that just generally. So So the problem of proving programs is undecided, and that means that you can't build a general solution. What you're gonna have to do is look >> for niche areas like device drivers, networks, policies, AP, I used to dream crypto et cetera, and then make the tools work for that area, and you will have to be comfortable with the idea that occasionally the tools aren't gonna be able to find an answer. And so the Amazon culture of being customer obsessed and working as closely as possible with the customer has been really helpful to my community of of logic, uh, full methods, practitioners, because they were really forced to work with a customer, understand the problem. So what I've been doing is listening to the customer on finding out what the problems with concerns. They are focusing my attention on that. And I haven't yet heard of, uh, of customers asking for mathematical proof on crypto currency Blockchain sorts of stuff. But I'm I I await further and you're intrigued. Yeah, I'm s I always like mathematics, but where we have been hearing customers asked for help is for Temple. We're working on free Our toss s o i o T applications Understand the networks that are connecting up the coyote to the cloud, understanding the correctness of machine learning. So why, why So I reused. I've done some machine learning. I've constructed a model. How do I know what it does? And is it compliant? Does it respect hip fed ramp PC, i et cetera, and some other issues like that. >> There's a lot of talk in the industry about quantum computing and creating nightmares for guys like you. How much thought given that you have any thing that you can share with us? >> Yes. Oh, there's there's work in the AWS crypto team preparing for the post quantum world. So imagine Adversary has quantum computer. And so there are proposals on eight of us has a number of proposals, and we've and those proposals have been implemented. So their standards and we've our team has been doing proof on the correctness of those. So, actually, in the one of my talks, I think the talk not with Chad and Tom. I show a demo of our work to prove the correctness of someplace quantum code. >> So, Byron, thank you for coming on the inside. Congratulations on the automated reason. Good to see it put in the practice and appreciate the commentary. Thank you very much. Thank you. Here for the first inaugural security cloud security event reinforced AWS is putting on cube coverage. I'm John Fairy with Day Volonte. Thanks for watching