good thumbnail for your video all right thank you all for the patience we are now ready to start filming did you want to take a picture alex yes i do lawrence let me get myself prepared for that okay lawrence we're going to take a screenshot of your input for a thumbnail asset if you can look at the screen and give me a big smile in three two one gotcha great excellent okay and with that i am all good to go and you are lawrence we'll do a five count i'll count you down 543 silent 2-1 and then just follow my lead okay sounds great all right leonard we good okay you're off here we go on dave in five four three every ceo is trying to get hybrid right most people they've been working remotely for the better part of two years now and we've spent a lot of time and thought on how to accommodate remote workers and providing tools to make them feel connected and more productive we've also built remote and hybrid models into our hiring ethos making it a feature not a drawback but what about the underlying infrastructure that powers hybrid work how is that evolving to be as flexible scalable and cost effective with the lowest latency possible recent survey data from enterprise technology research shows that 56 percent of executives believe productivity continues to improve with only 14 percent citing recent declines in productivity 26 percent say it's holding steady the question is how do we maintain those positives and minimize the negatives and what role does the network and underlying infrastructure play in evolving new work models welcome to the network powering hybrid work on the cube made possible by cisco my name is dave vellante and i'll be your host today and in this program you're going to hear from experts that are going to discuss and introduce new innovations that are specifically designed to energize and support hybrid work my first guest is lawrence wang who's the vice president of product management at cisco and we're going to dig into wi-fi 6e and what it all means to the future of work lawrence welcome good to see you hey great to be here dave thanks for having me i'm excited to be here today yeah you bet okay my my first big question is you know what's the big rush it feels like we were just talking about the shift from wi-fi you know five to wi-fi six just a few years ago what's going on there yeah i mean you're right right we as since at cisco we introduced our first wi-fi six access points back in 2019 and one of the things that we've seen is a tremendous rate of adoption moving from wi-fi five to wi-fi six over the past couple of years in fact it's one of our fastest transitions that we've seen between wireless standards and a lot of the drivers you know for that we're really just about you know making sure that there's better wi-fi experiences for you know uh people in the office making sure that they can support uh you know more of that you know set of clients reduce the amount of congestion in our time what we've seen is that migration has been tremendous but it also means that you know we're starting to reach that capacity where you know five gigahertz is starting to become more crowded and so many of our customers are looking at well what can i actually do to continue to expand you know that you know that traffic the number of lanes that i can actually support for wireless traffic and for many of them they're looking to wi-fi 6e as the answer to help them do that simply because six gigahertz as part of that standard introduces a whole new spectrum or a whole new highway that we can get client devices on well so it sounds like you're thinking about a different role for offices and campuses going forward so what should listeners expect to see kind of in the in the near term in the midterm and even the long term near term when they get back into the office and in the long term how do you see this playing out yeah i mean that's an interesting question right when you think about you know this context of hybrid work you know work is not a place that you go to but it's really a place that uh you could be where ultimately you are trying to get work done uh it really really is supporting you know that you know quality of experience no matter where you choose to work from and yes yeah while the campus is going to evolve and play a different role it is a critical part of that hybrid work future and the way i see it here is that you know the role of the campus is going to change over time it's not going to be the same that we saw prior to uh you know two years ago and i think for many of our customers about you know what does it mean to invest in that infrastructure for us to continue to adapt to support you know the ways that you know their employees are expected or want to work and a big part of that is investing in infrastructure to support your new ways of working well you know lawrence i mean i've personally been lucky because we go to studio and i've been able to come into the office since the pandemic started but i know a lot of people they're really excited to get back to work in person and face-to-face events and the like and i know others that say you know what i'm moving and i'm always going to remo work remotely i'll never work for another company that forces me to go in the office again so this sounds like a tall order for it organizations to accommodate that diversity how do you think they will be able to plan for and manage all this new complexity yeah i mean i think the reality is uh you know talent it doesn't know any zip codes right and i think one of the boons of you know being able to support a more distributed workforce is to be able to bring in great talent no matter where they're based out of and i think for it teams i think the interesting thing will be you know what are the drivers to bring people back into the office right there has to be a purpose uh that's more meaningful than simply it's a place that i go to every single day you know what are the you know tools and you know applications i bring in to help support collaboration and i think an important part of you know making this a great experience in the context of hybrid work is that you do have to make the office a meaningful place for employees to gather but also making sure that as you connect people around the world as part of your global employee workforce that they still have an equitable experience so for iet teams it is about you know thinking about how do i actually manage this infrastructure that's more distributed but i still have to invest in my you know central campuses and at the same time making sure that i have great quality experiences for everyone unified security policies you know visibility across all the clients and applications but there's also increasing pressure from their it's core constituency we know that people are asking more of it they want them to support new use cases like safe return office that they want it to help you a contributor to you know global corporate initiatives like driving towards uh you know zero uh greenhouse gas emissions so any number of these activities or initiatives is putting more pressure on ig teams yeah interesting i mean so i gotta ask you please don't hate me for this question but was this just luck on cisco's part that you got solutions ready for this sort of hybrid work model so quickly in other words was it something that you were maybe planning that was going to take years for the market to be ready for and it just got compressed because of the pandemic or is this architecture that allows you to be flexible how did you land here in what appears to be a pretty strong position yeah i mean at cisco i think one of the things that you know we think about is you know it's always amazing when you look back at something and then you write the story but i i think if we're being honest with ourselves if you look at what happened from where we were two years ago to where we are today including our competitors and customers i think that no one could have predicted the world that we're operating and living in and so for us the question becomes how did we help our customers support this transition and ultimately it's about investing in architectures and platforms that are flexible that allows our customers support you know use cases that they were thinking of as well as ones that they never anticipated and i think that's really the exciting thing about you know what we've been doing here as part of our hybrid work investments now areas that you know i think you know we double down on and you know in some ways accelerated because of this when i think about you know what our customers care about when they start bringing people back into the office it is about some of these emerging use cases whether it's you know more dynamic way finding being able to understand the density or the air quality of a given environment and these are some of the technologies that we've embedded in some of our you know new uh you know wi-fi 60 access points along with you know our management infrastructure here so i think that it gives our customers and partners a lot more flexibility than what you know they had before to really adapt to the changing needs of today and even beyond well that's something we've certainly learned throughout the pandemic is is the ability to be flexible is fundamental i got to ask you what's your preferred mode of work you going back into the office are you going to stay remote great question you know i have come to appreciate uh you know working from home you know over uh you know the past couple years got to spend a little more time with my kids at lunch but i will say i am looking forward to the day when i can have the choice of being back in the office a few days a week as well as continue to be remote as well as continue to visit my customers and partners uh you know all over this great country in the world so looking forward to that yeah so so you're a true hybrid i guess i'm a hybrid too i like being in the office but i'm traveling a lot when the world returns to the new abnormal anyway lawrence thanks so much for kicking off the program with me now in a minute we're going to dig into the core of the network and understand the role it plays in supporting new and flexible work models you're watching the network powering hybrid work made possible by cisco on thecube your leader in global enterprise tech coverage

>> Same thing, Bill, help me in and I'll give you a five count. Guys, this has to be in the vault until think, like everything else. Same, same protocol. Okay. Okay, great. Got you Tiller. Five, four. Hi, Everybody. This is Dave Vellante. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM think 2020, the digital event experience. And I'm very excited to bring in Itumeleng Monale. She is a woman in AI, leader 2020 honoree, was being announced, I think 2020. Itumeleng, first of all, congratulations. Thanks for coming up, we wish you were in Silicon Valley, in Moscone to handle the award, personally. But congratulations are in order. Terrific honor. >> Thank you very much Dave >> So I'm interested in, as people know, who follow theCUBE, very passionate about promoting diversity. And in particular, really, women in tech. It's been something that we've been covering for a decade. But I'm interested in how you got started in your data journey, how you got started in tech. Why? >> I think I just fell into it, To be honest, it found me. I began my career 21 odd years ago, as a management consultant really, and I specialized in strategy. So I really have to say that data found me, and information found me. And I left consulting after about six years, and started working in a bank also in a strategy role, but very quickly realized at the time, that digitization was going to be the next wave that allowed us to be competitive. And at the time, there weren't a lot of people in the digital banking space, and the bulk of our transactions and how we did things, was still over the counter and face to face. So I guess, I saw the opportunity, and we started building a self service and digital banking capability, which I ran for about six years. And after that, once you develop digital capabilities, whether it's an app or an interface, you quickly realize that actually it's not the main show. And data is behind everything that you presenting at the front end. So, I then saw a gap again, in the organization in the form of data management. We were spending a lot of money trying to leverage data, but the data was a bad policy, we didn't have good governance, we didn't have good processes, only Lifecycle Management behind it. And hence then there was another opportunity to go and establish a proper data management practice. So, here I find myself. >> So I have to ask you so, I mean, we love to honor women. However, we have the sort of, when I talk to women leaders, I get kind of two camps and not to generalize, but I'll generalize. One is, hey, I had to fight through all the stereotypes. I had to do more than my male colleagues. I broke through the glass ceiling, and I did it and I'm very proud of it. The other end of the spectrum is, I'm a successful leader and I just happened to be a woman. What are your thoughts on that? Where do you fall on that? >> I think all of it is true, to be quite honest. Dave. You know, yes, as females at a certain point in my career, I found that you did have to fight for a voice, you did have to speak up, but I certainly wouldn't have gotten where I am without, not without a sponsor and men, allowing us the space to actually give those opinions and have a voice. So I'm grateful to kind of the people that came before us, and they all happen to be men, but they saw the talent, that we have a network competent, and therefore, had we not been competent, I don't think we'd be here either. So it's a mix of both. And it's not just around being a female, it's about fighting for a cause, right? So whatever it is that you're championing as a leader, if you really believe in that purpose, by nature you're probably going to swim upstream a little bit and fight for it until it's an established kind of status quo. >> What advice would you give to organizations, that I mean the stats are less than 20% of the technology, of employment, or women? I think it's you know, 15 to 17%. What advice would you give to organizations that want to tap this rich talent pool and bring in more diversity into their organizations, but they tend to look in their own, you know, comfortable circles. What would you suggest? >> Well, I think you just really have to take the plunge, you have to challenge yourself, beyond what you perceive as normal. We all have to challenge ourselves in terms of unconscious biases. And I think organizations that are most successful, have acknowledged to themselves that the brain's trust that they have might not be enough. And bringing in new energy, is always going to make you more competitive than others. So really look to the next generation, look for young people look to different genders, look to different nationalities, to really make the quality of whatever it is that you're providing as a service or a product that much more relevant and better to your target audience. The reality is, you know, 51% of the globe are female. So if you don't take a female voice, in terms of developing whatever it is for your client base out there, you're missing half the mark. >> Words to live by Itumeleng, you know, it's one of the great pleasures of being a CUBE host, is we get to meet really interesting people like you. I hope that someday we get to meet face to face. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story. >> Thank you so much, Dave. Much appreciate >> And thank you for watching everybody. This is our continuous coverage of IBM think 2020, the digital event experience. Dave Vellante. You're watching theCUBE.

>> Live from San Francisco, California, it's theCUBE, covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. Brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at San Francisco. We're here at Fisherman's Wharf covering the IBM Chief Data Officer event #IBMCDO. This is the tenth year of this event. They tend to bookend them both in San Francisco and in Boston, and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Valante. John Thomas is here, Cube alum and distinguished engineer, Director of Analytics at IBM, and somebody who provides technical direction to the data science elite team. John, good to see you again. Steve Aliouk is back. He is the Vice President of Deep Learning in the Global Chief Data Office, thanks for comin' on again. >> No problem. >> Let's get into it. So John, you and I have talked over the years at this event. What's new these days, what are you working on? >> So Dave, still working with clients on implementing data science and AI data use cases, mostly enterprise clients, and seeing a variety of different things developing in that space. Things have moved into broader discussions around AI and how to actually get value out of that. >> Okay, so I know one of the things that you've talked about is operationalizing machine intelligence and AI and cognitive and that's always a challenge, right. Sounds good, we see this potential but unless you change the operating model, you're not going to get the type of business value, so how do you operationalize AI? >> Yeah, this is a good question Dave. So, enterprises, many of them, are beginning to realize that it is not enough to focus on just the coding and development of the models, right. So they can hire super-talented Python TensorFlow programmers and get the model building done, but there's no value in it until these models actually are operationalized in the context of the business. So one aspect of this is, actually we know, we are thinking of this in a very systematic way and talking about this in a prescriptive way. So, you've got to scope your use cases out. You got to understand what is involved in implementing the use case. Then the steps are build, run, manage, and each of these have technical aspects and business aspects around, right. So most people jump right into the build aspect, which is writing the code. Yeah, that's great, but once you build the code, build the models by writing code, how do you actually deploy these models? Whether that is for online invocation or back storing or whatever, how do you manage the performance of these models over time, how do you retrain these models, and most importantly, when these models are in production, how do I actually understand the business metrics around them? 'Cause this goes back to that first step of scoping. What are the business KPI's that the line of business cares about? The data scientist talks about data science metrics, position and recall and Area Under the ROC Curve and accuracy and so on. But how do these relate to business KPI's. >> All right, so we're going to get into each of those steps in a moment, but Steve I want to ask you, so part of your charter, Inderpal, Global Chief Data Officer, you guys have to do this for IBM, right, drink your own champagne, dog footing, whatever you call it. But there's real business reasons for you to do that. So how is IBM operationalizing AI? What kind of learnings can you share? >> Well, the beauty is I got a wide portfolio of products that I can pull from, so that's nice. Like things like AI open to Watson, some of the hardware components, all that stuffs kind of being baked in. But part of the reason that John and I want to do this interview together, is because what he's producing, what his thoughts are kind of resonates very well for our own practices internally. We've got so many enterprise use cases, how are we deciding, you know, which ones to work on, which ones have the data, potentially which ones have the biggest business impact, all those KPI's etcetera, also, in addition to, for the practitioners, once we decide on a specific enterprise use case to work on, when have they reached the level where the enterprise is having a return on investment? They don't need to keep refining and refining and refining, or maybe they do, but they don't know these practitioners. So we have to clearly justify it, and scope it accordingly, or these practitioners are left in this kind of limbo, where they're producing things, but not able to iterate effectively for the business, right? So that process is a big problem I'm facing internally. We got hundreds of internal use cases, and we're trying to iterate through them. There's an immense amount of scoping, understanding, etcetera, but at the same time, we're building more and more technical debt, as the process evolves, being able to move from project to project, my team is ballooning, we can't do this, we can't keep growing, they're not going to give me another hundred head count, another hundred head count, so we're definitely need to manage it more appropriately. And that's where this mentality comes in there's-- >> All right, so I got a lot of questions. I want to start unpacking this stuff. So the scope piece, that's we're setting goals, identifying the metrics, success metrics, KPI's, and the like, okay, reasonable starting point. But then you go into this, I think you call it, the explore or understanding phase. What's that all about, is that where governance comes in? >> That's exactly where governance comes in. Right, so because it is, you know, we all know the expression, garbage in, garbage out, if you don't know what data you're working with for your machine learning and deep learning enterprise projects, you will not have the resource that you want. And you might think this is obvious, but in an enterprise setting, understanding where the data comes from, who owns the data, who work on the data, the lineage of that data, who is allowed access to the data, policies and rules around that, it's all important. Because without all of these things in place, the models will be questioned later on, and the value of the models will not realized, right? So that part of exploration or understanding, whatever you want to call it, is about understanding data that has to be used by the ML process, but then at a point in time, the models themselves need to be cataloged, need to be published, because the business as a whole needs to understand what models have been produced out of this data. So who built these models? Just as you have lineage of data, you need lineage of models. You need to understand what API's are associated with the models that are being produced. What are the business KPI's that are linked to model metrics? So all of that is part of this understand and explore path. >> Okay, and then you go to build. I think people understand that, everybody wants to start there, just start the dessert, and then you get into the sort of run and manage piece. Run, you want a time to value, and then when you get to the management phase, you really want to be efficient, cost-effective, and then iterative. Okay, so here's the hard question here is. What you just described, some of the folks, particularly the builders are going to say, "Aw, such a waterfall approach. Just start coding." Remember 15 years ago, it was like, "Okay, how do we "write better software, just start building! "Forget about the requirements, "Just start writing code." Okay, but then what happens, is you have to bolt on governance and security and everything else so, talk about how you are able to maintain agility in this model. >> Yeah, I was going to use the word agile, right? So even in each of these phases, it is an agile approach. So the mindset is about agile sprints and our two week long sprints, with very specific metrics at the end of each sprint that is validated against the line of business requirements. So although it might sound waterfall, you're actually taking an agile approach to each of these steps. And if you are going through this, you have also the option to course correct as it goes along, because think of this, the first step was scoping. The line of business gave you a bunch of business metrics or business KPI's they care about, but somewhere in the build phase, past sprint one or sprint 2, you realize, oh well, you know what, that business KPI is not directly achievable or it needs to be refined or tweaked. And there is that circle back with the line of business and a course correction as it was. So it's a very agile approach that you have to take. >> Are they, are they, That's I think right on, because again, if you go and bolt on compliance and governance and security after the fact, we know from years of experience, that it really doesn't work well. You build up technical debt faster. But are these quasi-parallel? I mean there's somethings that you can do in build as the scoping is going on. Is there collaboration so you can describe, can you describe that a little bit? >> Absolutely, so for example, if I know the domain of the problem, I can actually get started with templates that help me accelerate the build process. So I think in your group, for example, IBM internally, there are many, many templates these guys are using. Want to talk a little bit about that? >> Well, we can't just start building up every single time. You know, that's again, I'm going to use this word and really resonate it, you know it's not extensible. Each project, we have to get to the point of using templates, so we had to look at those initiatives and invest in those initiatives, 'cause initially it's harder. But at least once we have some of those cookie-cutter templates and some of them, they might have to have abstractions around certain parts of them, but that's the only way we're ever able to kind of tackle so many problems. So no, without a doubt, it's an important consideration, but at the same time, you have to appreciate there's a lot of projects that are fundamentally different. And that's when you have to have very senior people kind of looking at how to abstract those templates to make them reusable and consumable by others. >> But the team structure, it's not a single amoeba going through all these steps right? These are smaller teams that are, and then there's some threading between each step? >> This is important. >> Yeah, that's tough. We were just talking about that concept. >> Just talking about skills and >> The bind between those groups is something that we're trying to figure out how to break down. 'Cause that's something he recognizes, I recognize internally, but understanding that those peoples tasks, they're never going to be able to iterate through different enterprise problems, unless they break down those borders and really invest in the communication and building those tools. >> Exactly, you talk about full stack teams. So you, it is not enough to have coding skills obviously. >> Right. What is the skill needed to get this into a run environment, right? What is the skill needed to take metrics like not metrics, but explainability, fairness in the moderates, and map that to business metrics. That's a very different skill from Python coding skills. So full stack teams are important, and at the beginning of this process where someone, line of business throws 100 different ideas at you, and you have to go through the scoping exercise, that is a very specific skill that is needed, working together with your coders and runtime administrators. Because how do you define the business KPI's and how do you refine them later on in the life cycle? And how do you translate between line of business lingo and what the coders are going to call it? So it's a full stack team concept. It may not necessarily all be in one group, it may be, but they have to work together across these different side loads to make it successful. >> All right guys, we got to leave it there, the trains are backing up here at IBM CDO conference. Thanks so much for sharing the perspectives on this. All right, keep it right there everybody. You're watchin' "theCUBE" from San Francisco, we're here at Fisherman's Wharf. The IBM Chief Data Officer event. Right back. (bubbly electronic music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen Brought to you by Cisco >> Hey, welcome back to the cave, Lisa Martin with John Barrier. We're coming to you Live from the Computer System Museum at the third annual Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen Excited to be joined by Joycelyn Developer Advocate from Postman Joyce Welcome to the Q Thank you. So you are a developer advocate. But postman is a tool that helps the community learn about Cisco ap eyes Postman is a Cisco was a customer of yours but a little bit about your experience at definite cry Because you have an interesting story from last year, which was your first year of this event >> Exactly last year. We just happen to stop by. And as I was walking through this very room you hear all these workshops going on behind us My ears perked up cause I heard somebody say python in postman or two of most powerful tools And I was like, Hey, I >> work a postman >> So I like, stopped in to see and I slapped my team back immediately at the office there, really using postman to teach Cisco Technology here. >> That was surprising to you. And here you are now here a year later. Tell us some of the things that you're expecting to learn and hear and feel and see from twenty nineteen. Create. >> So this year I hear about all these people learning postman learning about tech through postman. So I'm actually giving to talks this afternoon The first talks talking about building the community because a lot of people use postman in the second talk is about using mock servers. Had a fake an AP I until you actually coded and deploy it. >> Take a minute to explain. Postman. Why is it so popular? Why Francisco jazzed about it? What are they using it for? How they bring that in take a minute to talk about what you guys do >> Well, several years ago, when postman started as a side project was primarily for developers and help developers do their day to day jobs. But we found a lot more People are interacting with technology or working at tech companies where they might not have the setup to initiate a request. AP I request, and so postman allows them tio on their desktop be able. Teo interact with the tech in a way that normally they wouldn't have the whole set up to do it. >> So So in terms of developers, what's is a freemium model? They do have a free hand leads >> premium. And I think within the last year we've scooch almost anything that used to be a paid feature down to free so you can try it out. And in fact, if you have a small business or a side project, it's it's free. >> And what's the talk track? You're gonna have to get to talks. One on community, one on serve servers. Monster. >> Yeah, So Mock service is something that I thought might be interesting to this crowd. But a lot of these people have are in charge of managing the infrastructure or supporting existing AP eyes or services that are out in the cloud. And so mock servers are a way that you can essentially mock an FBI for parallel development or to build a prototype put into >> you. And so this helps develop, get faster app up and running. And then what happens when they have to get rid of mock server and put a real server on there? They had built out the re p I. Is that what happens? >> Typically, they're spinning Oppa marks over first, and then they're building out their own servers. So, yeah, they would swap out the mock with their own. >> And what's the other talk on community? Just how did do a community open sores? What's the aspects of the community talk? >> It's kind of on >> odd topic for this kind of crowd, but a lot of people work for companies that are or work for teams where they're just trying to build, like, a sense of community or foster some sort of mission. And so just telling the Postman story and Postman was free for absolutely free for a super long time in growth has just been astronomical. >> You're six million developers on the planet working on that, but I can't say on the company's one hundred thirty million plus AP eyes. And that's all. Just since the company was established in twenty fourteen after this sort of side project that you talked about so pretty, >> pretty quick >> growth trajectory that you guys are on >> and a lot of it was word of mouth. I mean, until I came here last year and heard all the system people talking about how they're using postman. We did not know that. >> So how have how has Postman actually evolved your technology in the last year? Just since you stumbled upon? Wow, this we're actually really hot here. We are really facilitator of developers. This community that's now what five hundred eighty five thousand members strong Learn about Cisco AP eyes. I'd love to know how that has sort of catalyzed growth for postman. Well, back in the >> day, Postman started as developer first. So here's an individual developer. How can they work more effectively? But teams like Cisco you'll be lucky if you find a team of ten people these air hundreds and thousands of developers coming together to work together. So postman as a tool has shifted from focusing on on ly the developer to how do you support developers working in larger teams? >> So what? The community angle? Because one of the things that Lise and I were just talking about you she does a lot of women in tech interviews with Cube and we're building out these communities ourselves and in Silicon Valley, the old expression fake it till you make it. It's kind of a startup buzzword, but people try to fake community or by community. You really can't get away with that. In communities, communities are very fickle. A successful open source projects you've gotta contribute. You've gotta have presence. You've got to show your work to get you to the bad actors. It's >> pretty >> efficient. But things air new now in communities this modern era coming into slag, you got tools. How is community evolving? That's your perspective on this. >> That's an interesting question. I think the community you never wanted fake community absolutely agree, and something that Postman is kind of lagged on is the community's been huge, but we haven't really been involved. So around the world we have people giving workshops that we don't even know about, like around the world. And how can we support them and allow them to tell, teach things consistently and teach best practices? So I wouldn't say unfortunately, well or fortunately, we're not in the position where we have to encourage the growth, but rather just support the people that are already doing this. This >> is the pure ingredient Teo Community development, because you're enabling other people to be relevant with their communities. So you're not so much like just trying to be a community player. You're just your product enables community growth. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> You just gotta come feed >> postman as a tool. And then postman, the seeds >> of community. >> Yeah, we're healthy. >> So talk about some of the where you guys locate. How many people in your company? What's this? What numbers >> were headquartered in San Francisco. We have a huge engineering department in Bangalore where our founders air from. And I think just a few months ago, we started having distributed people. So now we're everywhere. I think we're about a hundred head count. Uh, fifty five percent of that is engineering. So where? I don't know where a >> start off. I mean, they were started hunting with number two hundred thousand companies using the technologies. We said over six million developers. How do you get a handle on to your point earlier supporting all of these groups that are out there enabling us Johnson enabling and fueling communities like Deb. Nanny? How do you start that with a one hundred person organization? >> Yeah. I'm so glad you're like, Wow, that doesn't seem like a huge organization because other people are like I thought you are way bigger than that. One thing is that we do listen to our community. And so if they're having a pain point way, try to aggregate all those voices and then come out with a cohesive road map because what might be the loudest voice for even a lot of voices might not be what's right for the tool. The other thing is, we're not open source company, but we have a ton of open source projects. So the community has again developed converters, integrations all these open source tools that for their specific workflow works for them. And actually, they're sharing with the community. >> How did you get into all this? How did you join the company? What attracted you and what's what story? >> Well, I'm in San Francisco, so I work for a tech company. I have a hodgepodge background, but I won't go into because it just sounds confusing. Some people call me the Wolverine at work. >> That's a nickname. >> Um, hopefully it's not because I'm so Harry, but because I've had many lives, so I I kind of bring a little bit of that, too. My developer advocate role, a little bit of product, A little bit of marketing, little bit of the business side. >> It's good versatility, lot of versatility. Yeah, let me ask a question. One of the things we've been covering is actually we love cloud nated. We've been covering cloud in the early days. Oh, wait. Oh, seven All the way through Love Cloud native We get that check enterprises Ha! You see Cisco using your stuff. Enterprise developers are hot right now. People are fast filling applications has got a cloud native flare to a definite create. It's also gotta integrate into the classic enterprise. What's the difference in your view and your experience, your observations between enterprise developers and then your classic You know, hard core cloud native developer >> I would say that's something that postman, as an organization is dealing with right now because we started developer first. Now we're finding Oh, it's a different person making these decisions. What tools should we use? Sometimes it's top down, but at the end of the day, it's always the developer that is going to support a top down decision. A developer that's going to find the utility out of certain tool. So we're shifting our focus. But not necessarily by that much. Because long as you focus developer first, it's still >> so enterprise. Kind of taking more of a classic cloud developer or native cloud native developer. You think that kind of profile you in your mind? >> Well, again, you have an enterprise developer. But what? Where's that enterprise developer going to be in two years? So we're not hanging our hat too much on Enterprise? Only now >> what do you want? The Ciscos measures of programming. The network. I mean, infrastructure is code. That's kind of a nice value proposition. Take the complexity away. What's your take on reaction toe that vision? >> I don't know what you're talking >> about. I don't know what part. >> What part of tell you are. >> Well, they're saying developers shouldn't have to configure hardware. You know, abstract the network capabilities out and make it code. So the developers just it just happens. >> Got it? Yeah, And if you think about how you Khun scale, can you scale linearly or exponentially? Enabling every developer or team to deploy their own code at their own pace with their own tools is something that allows you to scale exponentially. So things like mock servers that were talking about earlier. If I'm relying on somebody, that's my bottleneck. To spin this up with the normal workflow for the organization, that's a bottleneck. Spin up your own mock server. >> Find mock servers were great. Resource because remember the old days and mobile the emulators kind of had to have an emulator to kind of get going. Okay, that was, like five years, but similar model like, Hey, I don't need I can't build that out now. But I need to know what it's gonna look like so I can get this done. >> And that allows you to iterated at the fastest >> level at the local >> developer level. >> We've been covering the old days here in the Cube world. >> Throwback. Joyce, thanks so much for your time joining us on the cue program this morning. It a definite creed. Best of luck in your two sessions later on today. We look forward to seeing you next time. Great. Thank you. Nice to meet you for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the cute covering knowledge sixteen Brought to you by service. Now here your host, Dave, Alon and Jeffrey. >> Welcome back to knowledge. Sixteen. Everybody, This is the Cube, Cuba Silicon Angles Flagship program. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise We're here. This is Day two for us. Will be going wall to wall for three days. That knowledge sixteen hashtag No. Sixteen. Chris Beatty is Here's the CEO. Relatively new CEO. It's service now. Chris, Thanks for coming on the Cube. It's going to be here. So you are hosting the CEO Decisions event Yesterday >> I was an event. We had a lot of CEOs, a lot of energy in the room, you know, one of the main main themes. Wass. You know, technology change happens all the time, but really one of the leadership challenge is right and what courage is required of leaders to really break through the status quo and get to that next level. We talked a lot about the importance of getting the right culture right within it, and that's a and what it really means to have a service mindset right throughout the enterprise. And as our vocabulary becomes the same inside it and across all the departments, right, as a leader, how do you enact that change so really a lot about the human element, as opposed to, you know, the technology part of it? >> Yes. So a lot of discussions over the past several service now knowledge comes in one year, Frank said. He sort of threw down the gauntlet and CEOs. They have to be business leaders. No longer Is that just a technology roll? Others have come on. The Cuban said. Well, you know, CEOs role. They gotta choose. They're gonna choose a technical path or a business path or data path. Even Chief Date officer. What do you thoughts on the >> I mean, >> there's a >> lot of press about the role. The CEO, right? And if you go back years and anything from Seo's dead, it is a relevant right. It's going the way of the dodo bird. Teo CEOs Morse strategic than ever, disrupting and creating new business models. I think the answer is somewhere in between, and it's probably changes, you know, depending on the day of the week. Right. So CEOs have a base job which is running, you know, the technology infrastructure of any company running the applications. But I do agree with Frank in terms of CEOs up, leveling their responsibilities and taking on the responsibility for more. I could tell you what I take responsibility for, right And yes, it's I t. But the overall velocity of our business. How fast can we run with everything Hiring employees, closing our books. Every single process in the company is powered by an IT platform, right? And so high tea is really in a unique position, and it has a bird's eye view of the organization to really help. Dr Velocity and Velocity is everything. How can you outflank your competition? The other thing I see think CEOs need to take responsibility for is maximizing the productivity of every single employee in the company. Right now, if you take that on, you start to look at things a little bit differently. It's not about projects, it's really about outcomes. And you know what measurable things are we delivering? And last and certainly not least, I think, the responsibility for customer experiences again. Customer experiences are powered by platform CEOs have the ability that influence every single one of those experiences and make it great and more and more as we look towards the future with things like automated bots and augmented reality customer. Your actions are going to become human to platform, and that's going to increase its relevance in that >> so and thinking about CIA imperatives of, you know, the bromide of eighty percent of the dollars we spend is on keeping the lights on twenty percent of innovation of That's a real number, No, but nobody seems to argue with it. Yeah, you >> hear that number a lot, but I think the good organizations actually do measure that number so they actually they will know what their number is and that service. Now we've done a lot of work, so our ratio is actually sixty percent run the business forty percent on innovation, and we're driving that down. So it's uneven. Fifty fifty split. I think that where you don't want to go is spending too little time on what I call the utility computing because that's the fabric that gets work done right. It's everything from networking and email and all those basic services you still need to have. Those aren't going anywhere collaboration services. >> I'd like to split it up into a little finer grain. I wonder if you could comment run the business grow the business transformed the business. Now maybe you're maybe you're always transforming your business, I don't know. But in >> terms of have to be >> in terms of but specific spending on initiatives to transform the business is that a reasonable, reasonable way to look at your portfolio was >> absolutely right. And I think if you're not doing things that transform your business, you're you're not acting with enough urgency. So my view on it is identify the big rocks right that we need to knock down, make sure we make room for those, even if it's at the cost of the grow or run part of the budget. Because if you're not getting those things done again, back to that getting left behind things were moving too quick. You got to keep pace. So make room for the transformation somehow, and that means squeezing every bit of automation that you can. How did the run part of the business, which is something I've used service now for in my past. I used to be a customer. I bought the platform twice over before I joined the company, and we did it a lot, and I'm doing it now, now that I'm at service now, >> that's one of Frank's requirements to become a CEO. I think. How >> do you >> measure that? That split. You said you're sixty today. Like to be a fifty, a lot of CEOs going. I have no idea how to measure that. I look at my projects are, but guess how do you do it? >> And it's tough we actually use. Not surprisingly, are Ownit Financial Management module to do that. And so technology's technology would we take all of our G L data and we map it to a taxonomy of business services in certain business services we know are not transformative, but they're a run part of the business, and we do that mapping once than every month. We can look at actuals against it. We can look at our unit costs, but the other begin put his projects right, which is again also in our platform, so able to look at those two things together and data driven segmentation of our spend too many times I see ninety organizations. They do it as one time exercise as part of annual planning. Then they don't look at it again until the next year. Annual planning. But there's a lot of runway in between and decisions we're making every day, which you should be making based upon data. But instead you're doing on perhaps nine months ago information. >> So you essentially categorize the business process, the business services as run or Growler training farm and on an ongoing basis. >> Absolutely. And you do the math and the most dynamic part of it, his projects. So every one of our projects, when we look at our portfolio, we look at our project portfolio by business areas, the sales marketing HR finance so on. But then we also do categorize our portfolio by Is this just sort of keep the lights on activity? But it's a project we still need to dio, or is it growing the business in somewhere? Is it truly helping us transform the way we operate >> on reasonable people? Khun, sit down and agree on sort of what those look like and >> short, and we also adjust accordingly. Also, do a top down allocation of what percentage do we want to go into each bucket, and that's not the same for each area because different parts of our business are different maturity cars, different pressures on them. I wouldn't want to be very transfer meitiv with RGL, right? That's not an area I want to innovate on. But with our sales and marketing organization, absolutely. We want to be in high innovation. Hi, experimentation, whatever we can do to help dry. >> So that's a top down bottom up exercise with the executive team says Okay, >> sideways inputs from everywhere. You know, one of the things I think CEOs it is a coming to fund CEOs to dio is manage spend. But more importantly, where people spending their time right, that's inarguably a fixed costs. We have a set of people where they spending their time and are they spending their time on the right things? And if you get that right, the rest could get a lot easier. >> So Secretary Gates last night speaking Teo, you know, maybe roughly one hundred CEOs and your your CEO decisions Conference gave the thumbs down on consensus management, and I sense just a little bit of discomfort in the room because CEOs is a hard job. But you serve a lot of different masters if you will, and as well you've got heads of application development you got, you know, architects, you got the business to serve, and so there's a lot of consensus building. And so he got questions on How do you do it? What was your reaction to that? Your colleagues, You know, which >> one was your science? They asked him a question. And because he said Consensus building doesn't work into an outside person looking in, it would seem like by nature. Everything in the government is consensus oriented. He had a lot of examples actually, where he did things against his own team's conviction, but he felt like that change was necessary. So it's two things I think Dr Gates has dealt with monumental organizations, right? Texas A and M is the smallest organization of those the CIA and the D. O D. Department of Defense has three million people, so the scale is unlike what most enterprise CEOs are leaders have seen. So when when he talked about not being consensus oriented, he viewed it as a requirement, and I actually agree with him. If you're trying to disrupt the status quo, you can't be consensus oriented. I don't think you'LL move fast enough, and most of time you won't get very far. So I think it's incumbent upon leaders to be the ones that break the status quo and say, We've got to change. And But what? What Dr Gates did describe is that if people are informed about why, from their leader enough, even if they disagree, they can get on board. And he brought up numerous examples of where he had conversations with Congress and people within the d. O d about change. He wanted to drive, and even though they were very opposed to it, they got on board because they intellectually could understand why. And over time, he won over hearts and minds >> about your priorities. So you come in relatively new tow service now. So first of all first impressions, any any surprises, pleasant or unpleasant? And what your priorities. >> So coming in no surprises. I had had a lot of admiration for the company as a customer, and now that I'm here, I love the culture. The culture is very execution oriented, get stepped on, very customer focused. You know, when we when we talk about our go to market, we really talk a lot about what's going to be most important for our customers. What pressures are customers under what problems can be solved for him? It's really not a discussion around squeezing. You know, the maximum margin out of each customer, which I think is fantastic way drive pretty hard. But but we're also very team oriented culture, so that's been great. My priorities at service. Now, when I think about my six strategic themes that I'm focused on growth eyes hugely important that service now. Right now, it's a lot of time I spend, fails and marketing effectiveness and innovation. And what can we do to drive, help, drive growth from a night perspective? Working with our partner organization, helping our partners? I do business with us easier things like partner portals and things like that. Ah, velocity. I mentioned earlier driving velocity through every department at the Enterprise at service now and really maniacally going after business process automation. And the great thing is, we have a platform that makes it easy, right and Ivax full access to that platform. So self service catalogs and knowledge base, but really going department by department saying, How do we do that? Analytics. Obviously we want to continue to measure and improve our business. But we're starting to do a lot more with Predictive Analytics, right? And how can we use data to really predict next best actions in a variety of arenas? Uh, security is the gift that keeps on giving for every CEO never ending. It's >> just one of those things that'll Teo you got, you >> got, you got to accept it and then really focus on team, right? I think talent and team and culture hugely important. You could have the best plans, you know, on paper. But if you don't have the right talent and culture within your team to get it done, I don't think you're getting very far operational. Rigor is a big one for me and a Metrix based approach to managing our business and driving outcomes. So when I look at projects that I execute for the organization on time and on budget, that's fine. That's table stakes. Really. What I'm after is on benefit, right? Are we delivering the benefits that we said we were going to get? And last, but certainly not least a part of my job is now on now. What? What we mean by now? On now is me being our best in first customer. And that's a very strategic level, working with product management to help them, you know, with roadmap features and things like that that I think all of our CEO's would need also upgrading early. So hopefully we can iron out the bugs before all of our customers and then consuming our own your products and implement it internally, learning the lessons within our four walls that we can inform our fields they could help our customers. >> How about on benefit? What percentage of projects are on benefit? That's another one of these things. Seventy percent of the projects fail. It was a number one on the market research, even >> that even that's a problem that fail is identified as not being on time or on. But right now, I view that is interesting but not compelling. Are you delivering the outcome? And so we're early. I've only been at service now six months, but I know in the past, through rigor and even making it a metric that's important have gotten to an eighty five percent hit rate on benefit. Certainly you could do better, but some of the benefits we have realised, with our platform eighty three percent increase in productivity. Leveraging R R R R application, but examples outside of Ice D, where we've eliminated forty five hundred hours of work from our financial close by putting email and manual checklist on your platform. Eighty five percent reduction in time that we spent hours spent on on boarding new employees. I mean, the list goes on and on, but it's a requirement in my organisation. When you're doing a project, you gotta have an outcome and set an aspirational outcome. Because if you talk about ten percent improvement and anything, that's sort of easy to get it. If you tell yourself I need to get a seventy percent improvement, it forces you to really rethink things and think differently. And I think that's our job. Is leaders to set those set the bar really high and then sharp teams have the resources to go after it. >> So even if you're late and over budget, if you get that, I didn't say that I later over, but I was asked, so that's got three. So that's a that's a prerequisite to be on time and on budget, >> and we're not perfect, but our target is to be ninety five percent on time, ninety five percent on budget, knowing you're gonna have five percent, you know, wiggle room and ninety five percent on benefit. >> What is on. So when you talk to the board, switch topics about security, what should be on the CEO's checklist for communicating to the board about security? So So >> I think it's really about risk, right? And what risks do we think we have? What's the likelihood of those risks? And what's the plan to mitigate those risk? I don't think security should be talked about in a This is Donner. That's done because you're never really done right. It's risk management, and the bad guys continue to innovate faster than the good guys. So what's your current security posture? What's the state of your risks and how are you mitigating them and in what time frame you know the stuff about? You know, we have a deal. P. We have ideas. We have I ps. I mean, the list of acronyms is interesting at a more tactical level, but at a board level, I think it's really risk management. >> So I promise I wanted before Ortiz talk about mitigating risk. But is there a place for a narrative that says you'd only mitigate so much? You're going to get penetrated. It's how you respond absolutely is critical. And I can I, as the CEO can lead that response or whomever is the >> appropriate person? I think you you have to do everything you possibly can Teo secure your perimeter. But it's known that you are going to get breach. Just a fact. So then it really becomes How quickly can you identify the fact that you have anomalous activity happening on your network of data? How quickly can you mitigate it? And in the past, when I was at various sign JD issue, a lot of that was manual right You have. You know, you have a piece of bad malware on the Enterprise. You may even know what assets. Um, it's on where you think you know. Usually I think you know, and then you really find out later where it's gone. But tying those assets to risk meaning what? Business services, it is it my CFO's laptop? Or is it? You know, the the you know, the person in AP. So you treated a little bit differently. And is it the infrastructure that supports our badge reader? Or is it our ear piece system? Right, So that's the missing piece. And I do thank our security organization and our our business unit, Shawn, because they've actually built a solution. Help solve that where you can go from security incident. Piece of Alberto Asset to Business service to employ within minutes, which that used to be half a day, at least half a day is a long time in a security incident. >> Yeah, so there's that magic number of whatever it is two hundred five days to detect a penetration? Yes, very. Do you feel like your organization can compress that? Is that a viable metric to be focused on? >> It's certainly a viable metric to focus on in terms of knowledge, off again anomalous activity. I don't think we're near two hundred five days, but absolutely we are focused on it because we need to secure not only our data but the data that our customers in trust without trust, >> meaning you feel as though you could detect much in a much shorter time frame, and they have some interesting. You haven't depending >> on the wrist right? Without getting into a lot of the details. >> Yeah, So we'll see you. But implicit in that is that you have a sense of the value of your data, your assets your I p what you're saying you've got a pretty good visibility on. >> Is that right? Yeah, we d'Oh. We spent a lot of time making sure our security posture is solid again customers and trust us with their data. We take that responsibility very seriously. >> Not speaking for service now, but just general knowledge of your colleagues Do you feel as though the lack of ability to value data assets negatively affect people's ability? T appropriately spend resources >> on security? It's tough because one of the first things you need to do in security say, what do I need to secure first? And then you say, OK, well, that's my core. I pee. Where's my core I pee stored? I would argue that a lot of companies don't even know because it's scattered on different file shares and different servers, and then you don't know whether people are putting it on box or drop box or one of the many storied sites out there so keep key. First step, I think for a lot of organizations is really just getting a handle on where their I P is. >> Right? All right, Count Chris, Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming on last. Give the last word. Uh, knowledge sixteen for you. What's the kind of bumper sticker? Is the truck's pulling away from its been awesome. I mean, >> just talking with customers and fellow CEOs. You know, we're all in this journey together towards this service enabled enterprise, but it is about leadership and just courage to bust through this current status quo that were in within the enterprise to get to that next level of efficiency. >> Thanks a lot of fun. Well, congratulations on the new role on DH hosting at a hostel conference just caught the tail end of it. But it looked like great energy >> because a lot of >> had some really good discussions with some of your colleagues. So really great coming on. Thank you. Alright. Keep right there, buddy. That's the Cuba bit back from knowledge. Sixteen, Las Vegas. Right after this >> every once in a while.