>> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018, Hynes Convention Center in Boston. The final day of ZertoCON, and a lot of talk about partnership at this conference, and one of Zerto's key partners is IBM. Daniel Witteveen is a vice president of resiliency services portfolio at IBM, and I guess the manager of the Zerto relationship from IBM's perspective, is that so? >> Yeah, so I have responsibility for IBM's Resiliency Portfolio. Which includes disaster recovery as a service, backup as a service, data migration services. As well as we do a lot around site and facilities design, construction, and build. So specifically around DRaaS and what you heard today going into the backup world, our backup-as-a-service offering, Zerto's been a partner of ours since 2016. >> Now DRaaS, I think of, is certainly, has been around, disaster recovery has been around for a long time. How much of that business has moved into the cloud now and become a service? >> There's still a very large segment of the population that's doing traditionally DR, but that is moving rapidly to a more automated function. Now, the challenge our customers are faced with is not all workload is cloud ready. So we have a partnership with Zerto for all that cloud-ready workload, using them, but we also combine the Zerto technology into our orchestration software, which handles the full recovery of non-cloud workload IT. So, think about multiple platforms, think about multiple clouds, think about multiple data movers and replicators. We can orchestrate that entire recovery process using Zerto for the virtual environment. >> Talking to executives here today, we don't hear a lot about recovery, we hear a lot about resilience. How ready, how many of your customers are really in that position where they're thinking resilience is never going down as opposed to recovery from a failure? >> So, the goal is to be as close to no outage as possible. But in lieu of recent cyber incidents in cyber-related attacks, the conversation for our clients has shifted to true business resilience. Right, so we have a business resilience conversation verse an IT resilience conversation. Business resilience clearly includes IT, but when you talk about a malicious cyber-related attack, which will cause disruption which'll cause outage, which'll cause data corruption, you're always-on-never-be-out-age viewpoint changes a bit. So, our clients are having a lot of discussions with us around changing the way we think about IT resilience in light of a cyber-related incident. >> Well security, the fastest growing business at IBM is security, how closely do you work with these people in that group? >> Very closely, we've combined, if you're familiar with the NIST Framework around cyber resiliency, you know that there's a lot of effort from our security services around identification and prevention. But what happens when it gets through all that and actually causes and outage, right? So we've partnered very close together on how do you recover and restore, right, using technologies from resiliency services while you try to prevent and detect for true resiliency. >> Talk about the history of the relationship. It's only been a couple years, but how did you first become aware of Zerto and why were they chosen as part of the portfolio? >> Yeah, that's a very good question. So, Zerto started relationship with IBM Cloud. I think at the time it was probably called SoftLayer or Bluemix, right? >> Paul: Yes, it Was probably. >> And that started right as a mechanism to provide DRaaS in a very simple version on IBM Cloud. And the benefits IBM Cloud provided at that time, and still do today, is true hypervisor access to Zerto. And that's been very attractive to Zerto clients because a version of Zerto on-prem is the same as in the cloud, and that's a unique capability for us. But also, another value point was that the data replication between our data centers is free to the customer, so think about the cost structure when it comes to bandwidth. If the customer's moving production in one cloud, in one data center of IBM Cloud, and wants to do recovery out of region, another IBM data center, all that data transfer is included. Right, that's an amazing value prop. But when we're having those discussions with our clients, it expanded to, well, that's nice, that answers this section of my workload. What about all this? And that's really where the relationship blossomed with our integration of orchestration to handle the full IT estate really focusing on hybrid IT. >> Of course, hybrid IT is really the sweet spot for IBM-- >> Daniel: It is. >> How does resilience fit into. The sweetest services that you're offering customers now, is this sort of a core service? Resilience, is a core service of the IBM Hybrid Solution? >> Yeah, absolutely, so within global technology services, it's one of three key plays, resiliency. And if you think of us as a very large outsourcing firm, clients are dependent on us providing these services to them, so it is very significant, as the nature of all of our conversations, any kind of managed service, the default expectation of our client is that it's resilient. >> And, would you say that the clients have understand and really internalized this idea of resilience? Or are they still not quite sure what it all means? >> I would say there's, clients vary brainly. The regulatory clients and the clients that are most potentially exposed to negative publicity as a result of a cyber attack are much more aware and in tune. I will tell you also in lieu of cyber, and it was part of the conversation on that panel yesterday, you're talking about a very different way to respond to an outage. Which is creating a lot of dialogue within our clients of what does it truly mean to be resilient. So it's driving a conversation. They used to be siloed: maybe in IT, maybe in the risk officer or maybe in the CISO. It is bringing them now altogether, and say, we've got to work much stronger together to be resilient. >> We hear a lot of talk about multi-cloud. Is it mostly talk or are you seeing customers really adopt? Are they excited about adopting multiple public clouds? >> I would probably draw a parallel to, did a client ever use one platform, right? And they do. And so clients are very in tune to want to have multiple options. It is very rare today that I go into a client that's single cloud oriented. They'll start single cloud, but they're going to want the flexibility to be multi-cloud. And we want to make sure when we orchestrate their disaster recovery, or even their backup or any of our other offerings, that that can be seamless, that they can move from one cloud to another cloud for whatever reason, maybe it's financial, maybe it's location, maybe it's capability. We want to be able to seamlessly provide that interaction. >> Now AWS and Azure are never going to play nicely together, Where does IBM fit into that matrix? Are you a Switzerland between all these public clouds? >> Well, so we have our own. >> Yes, of course. >> Within IBM Cloud, we'll talk about our strength and our size in the enterprise relative to those providers. But as a services entity, we will continue to be (mumbles). Our shareholders great to be using IBM Cloud. But certainly if a solution or a customer dictates another solution, we would be fine with that. >> Paul: What do your customers ask you about backup these days? Where is backup going? >> How can you do it for me, so I don't have to do it? >> Because it's so painful. (laughing) >> That's our probably biggest use case is customers recognize it's not a core competency. The data explosion has just, they can't handle it anymore. They're buying storage everyday. And they're going there's got to be a better way. And our conversation with customers around backup is let us be your better way. We will provide the infrastructure. We'll provide the label. We'll provide the software. We'll provide the architectural positioning. And we'll focus on providing you the business outcome that you need relative to that offer. >> Would you say the backup is rapidly going to move to the cloud or do you think on-prem backup is going to be around for a long time? >> It's a good question. Unfortunately, as it depends the answer is. For the smaller companies and the remote offices, going directly to cloud makes complete sense. When you have a high-change rate and you have a lot of storage volume, your decision will become where do I need to recover or how do I need to access that data? And maybe that's best suited on-prem. Once (mumbles) in the cloud, maybe that's suited in cloud. I think long term, they'll ultimately sit in the cloud, but there's still a massive amount of storage and customers prefer a massive amount of that to be on-prem. >> In a multi-cloud world, is resilience more difficult to ensure? Or is it easier? >> Way more complex. Way more complex, because if you think about, what 10 years ago, you had site A and site B, site A went down, you're worried about site B. Very easy. One failure case. Now our clients have not only multi-cloud, they have multiple locations, remote offices, back offices. They have multiple software-as-a-service providers. And so our view is, you have to look at the business process resiliency. If you have one system that goes down in a software-as-a-service provider, how does that impact you business process? Can it still work? And how do you make it work in the event that one of those components fail? So it's a lot more complex because you're not just thinking about A and B, you're thinking about 10 different failure scenarios, 20 different scenarios, and making sure that doesn't interrupt the business process. >> The quest for simplicity, IT always seems to become more complex. >> What's interesting is every evolution of technology, which increases redundancy, reliability, the first sense is, well, then I don't need as much resiliency, and every change of technology consolidates that risk, and therefore resiliency becomes that much more important. >> Good job security. Daniel Witteveen, thanks very much for joining us from IBM. >> Excellent, as always, I appreciate being here. Thank you. >> I'm Paul Gillin. That's it for us here at ZertoCON 2018. This is theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the CUBE. Covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is the CUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018. Final day of ZertoCON here in Boston at the Hynes Convention Center and on the stage this morning with John Morency from Gartner was my next guest Jayme Williams, Senior Systems Engineer at TenCate talking about your experience with Zerto. Jamie, welcome, thanks for joining us. >> Jamie: Thank you very much. >> I'm sure a lot of people haven't heard of TenCate although it's a very big company, tell us what the company does. >> We are a multi-national company, we are developers, processes that produce, one business entity, protected fabrics, we also are in artificial turf, also advanced composites, things like the Mars Lander, so TenCate actually has material on the planet Mars right now. So, we're a multi-national, diverse company, based using in textiles and textile processes. >> Very cool and you're also a multi cloud company from an IT perspective. One of the things you talked about this morning was moving to a current federation of seven different cloud providers I think you said you use. What is the strategy and the thinking behind that. >> So, we're shifting our model right now, we call it disentanglement, we're going from regional setups to where we were the AMERS the EMEA and APAC, rather than regional, we are shifting each business entity to a global, so each one of those global business units, we had to disentangle, move from our current infrastructure to a new infrastructure. We guide them, we try and help them and tell them what would be best suited to them, but some of them went with private cloud, some of them are using public clouds and we have to disperse that infrastructure amongst whatever they so chose and help them along their journey to become a stand-alone business entity across the globe. So, that could be a AWS, it could be Azure, all of them are going to Office 365, but leveraging the technology to best serve the purposes of that specific business unit globally rather than regionally. >> And then it's your job at the back end to federate all these services that many companies are just now beginning to think about adding a second cloud to their portfolio. What advice would you give a company that's looking at moving to multi-cloud? >> Very strong, knowledgeable partners that you can actually become friends with and have them on speed-dial on your hip. Conferences like this is where you meet those people, so that if you come to something here you're going to to run into somebody who has the same struggle as you or you can help someone who's going to to have the same struggle as you along the pathway. So, I think we should disseminate the information amongst ourselves in IT to help each other. It's a community of people, we've got to keep ourselves motivated and vital and relevant and the only way to do that is by building up these partnerships, how did you do it, how did I do it, share that information so we don't all have to struggle through the same exact issues as we go along the journey or the path whatever the business dictates. >> A lot of talk at the conference about resilience. What is resilience mean to TenCate? >> So, it's gone from we can do without this data for 24 hours, that's acceptable, to 12 hours, that's acceptable, now it's an always-on world, it's more and more millennial spun into the workplace too, it's a given that I can do work from anywhere, anytime, anyplace, so you've got to be resilient in your infrastructure, in your processes to make those things available to them, so they're basically our customers as an IT organization saying, "Here's the services we're offering to you, whether it's Office 365, or an on prem business process, we've still got to guarantee that workers and people and colleagues can get to these services, so resilience is always having that service on whatever SLA that has to be implemented in order to meet those things and make them available to the workplace, the business flows, making money, we're profitable and we're on the goods with the P&L. >> Now, obviously Zerto has been important to your IT strategy, talk about your use of Zerto and what value it's delivered to your organization. >> So, we were an early adopter of Zerto, we weren't the first by any means, but we were an early adopter. When we started our cloud strategy we had a meeting, globally, TIO says we are going to the cloud, to the cloud and beyond. I called Zerto, who was implemented just for the Americas at that time and said, "What's the cloud? What do you recommend for the cloud?" And they actually came at that point in time and said, "We have some partners we're working with, one of them happens to be the data center that you're in." So, they got me linked up, that was my first step into talking about discovering what is the cloud using Zerto as the reference, those partners again, those friendships that say utilize these guys. That's how we started initial getting our feet wet with the cloud, it was private, it was more controlled, it also gave us a lot of comfort. We could go to the guys there and say, "How do you do this, what happens if", all of the what if scenarios that really are easy and simple to answer and it was put in front of us by Zerto and as their product evolved, they started supporting replication into Azure, let's go to Azure then, so we started replicating to Azure, we went to Office 365, we of course still used those third party private and Zerto partners and used resources in their data centers. I think I've tried about every offering that Zerto has come out with whether it be off-site backup, 30-day journaling, if not just to see what it is, when I find out that it works, I just keep it, why it's a value-add any time they come out with something. You key-turn it, you get additional benefits, they evolve, they're agile as a company, so they can provide and support us to be agile and pass that on down the line. >> Tell me about the journaling feature that you mentioned, how do you put that to use? >> So, we had all of our VPGs setup for 30-days, so I've got enough storage on-prem to give up to do 30-day journaling like Crypto-locker, unfortunately we were a recipient Crypto-locker, so with the journaling feature, >> Paul: Crypto-locker being a prominent form of ransomware, >> Absolutely. Unfortunately, it's not one I want to raise my hand to having been witness to, but with Zerto, going back into the journal, I recovered, I think it was first hit, 10 seconds before, bring the environment back up, everybody access your files, are you good to go, we're good to go, the end user doesn't know the technology, it's not their problem, but the feeling of morale, the team, the esprit de corps from being able to say, "We've just gotten hit by Crypto, let's fell back to ten seconds before it happened and let's go back to work. >> Paul: Phenomenal. How big was the attack? >> Jayme: So, it took out a file server, so we have a DFS file server infrastructure and it had rapidly worked its way all the way down through the DFS infrastructure, so we had to recover about a terabyte file server, scale it back, bring it back up. I won't say no one was the wiser, but when you say, "Let me reboot the server, try it now." It's back up, we're not calling for tapes, we're getting it back up instantly. >> Ransomware, of course, is the fastest growing malware of 2017, what have you done internally since then to prevent a recurrence of the attack? >> One thing that we absolutely did is go back and review who has access to what, so where did it come in at, where was the entry point, what can we do to remediate these things, do specific production machines need access to talk, needed but not now, we remediate those type things, you extend the use of a product like Zerto to say, okay, we thought this was relevant, with this new information, what happened to us as the scope widened, what else do we need to conclude that we can fall back on for journaling? And there's also a credibility hit and a morale hit to the team. So there's some PR that has to be done to the corporation, to the company, to say we are doing something, you know, we took a valid hit, but we are going to keep your confidence and this is how we are going to do it, we're going to use and leverage a product and the knowledge we gained and fix it. When you show what you are doing and keep their confidence in you from the corporation. So, it's not always just technical, there's PR, confidence that you can do your job, from the businesses, there's a lot of things behind ransomware than simply decrypting. >> I do understand that you spent eight years in the Marine Corps. >> Yes, sir. >> How did this prepare you for a job in IT. >> Oh, man, always charge towards the battle. (both laughing) I don't like to, to my detriment perhaps, I don't like the way, so if something new comes out, chances are, I'm going to try it and ask forgiveness rather than permission. But, I just like to get stuff done and if I can get it done and then move onto something else and find new and interesting things to do, I'm going to play with that, if that solves the business purpose, so be it, let's implement it, let's move to the next one. So, I like change, that's why I like IT. The job is never boring because as we speak right here it's changing, someone smart is thinking of something Germanic, something that's going to change and disrupt, next week I get to go home and discover that myself, play with it and implement it possibly. So, I don't want to be sitting there dormant, this is the job for me. >> Great attitude. Jayme Williams, thank you so much for joining us. >> Yes, sir, thank you very much. >> Jayme Williams from TenCate. We'll be back from ZertoCON 2018. I'm Paul Gillin. This is the CUBE.

(light techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube. Covering ZertoCon 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is The Cube. We're at ZeratoCon 2018, Hines Convention Center in Boston. My name's Paul Gillin. My guest is John White, the VP of Product Strategy at Expedient. Why don't you start off by giving us just the elevator pitch on what Expedient is all about. >> Sure, Expedient is a cloud-service provider as well as managed service provider, and we also have data centers that we operate here mainly on the east coast. We have seven cities and 11 data centers. Those are in Boston here, locally as well as Baltimore, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Memphis, Tennessee. And then we actually, we'll put our private cloud services really anywhere. So we actually will put 'em on the customer's premises to meet that need as well as in partner data centers anywhere over the world, if they have to deal with compliance, security, whatever it might be, we'll go and tackle those problems for them. So our goal is to be an infrastructure as a service provider for, you know, really all the enterprise. >> So, when would a company do business with you verses a Microsoft or an Amazon? >> Yeah, so, if you kind of look at really three ways to kind of go cloud, right? You can still do it yourself. You can build some cloud-based services. And that's, again, you're in it on your own. You can go all the way to the extreme, which is the AWS or the Azures, and that's more, again, you're kind of in a do-it-yourself type of mentality. And your support structure there is a little bit different. It's maybe a little bit more mechanical, a little bit more robotical. If you need help in transitioning and figuring out where your workload should sit, and maybe creating more of a hybrid cloud so it's maybe on your premises, it's inside one of our data centers, and then maybe it's even in one of those AWS or Azures. You're going to work with a company like Expedient to go and help you figure out where you should put your workloads, first off. And then how to create that long-term strategy so you get the best of all worlds that are out there, not just one prescriptive cloud. >> So, you're kind of a high-touch cloud provider then. >> Very, very high touch, yeah. Our whole product service is actually a la carte menus. So you pick and choose what you want. We can manage servers, we can provide virtual infrastructure, we can do things like DR as a service, backups as a service, all those pieces. So you build, basically, your perfect IT strategy with us. And then direct connects into AWS and Azure and some other cool products coming soon to kind of make your life a little bit easier, consuming and running your work loads in public clouds. >> Well we hear a lot these days about multi-cloud, about customers wanting to shift their work load seamlessly around between multiple back-end cloud providers. Certainly vendors talk about that a lot. Do you hear customers talking about it? >> Yeah, we have some customers starting to talk about it. And, you know, in the beginning, they just wanted to see, okay, I'm running workloads in AWS, I'm running workloads in Expedient, I'm multi-cloud. And then they start to understand. well, our management's really hard. And the network's really hard, and the security's really hard. And we're doing backups another way than we've done it traditionally. And we're helping customers bridge that gap and saying, we can take some of the security policies that we've been running internally in our data center, and maybe you've been doing inside your data center, and take those out into the public cloud. Simplifying things with networking. We're a pretty big VM or NXS shop. So doing something where you can create tagging and policies local inside the Expedient data center, and then being able to translate those up into AWS and Azure, to make it, basically, one seamless network, is really, really big and key for our customers. It's something that I think is still new. We have a handful of customers that we're working on a lot of cool research projects on. But I think it's going to be something that's going to be the dominant force here in the next few years. >> You mention disaster recovery as a service. Now is that where Zerto fits into your plan? >> Correct, yeah. We've been working with Zerto for quite some time now really since they were just comin' to Boston. And we worked and spent a ton of time with them getting them to understand the needs of service providers, 'cause they were traditionally enterprise focused. And that partnership that we've built over the years has done tremendous value for not only our customers but our businesses. And we've actually had two year-over-year growth for the last three years with them. And actually, we just won the Service Partner Growth Partner of the Year Award with them. So we're creating some pretty cool solutions around DR as a service, and taking some of our network background and actually simplifying DR for our customers that way. So, we use Zerto as well as VM Ware, and some of our own product connectivity, NSX, to actually simplify the package of DR to get the recovery time objective down into 10, 15 minutes, instead of four hours or eight hours or multiple days that really most people are experiencing right now. >> So when you look at the landscape, there are a lot of disaster recovery solution providers you could've worked with. What does Zerto do that's really different? >> The part, well, on a technology wise, watching them take a look at the change block that's occurring that's out of the VM1 environment, making an agnostic from a storage layer, that was really big for us in the beginning on the technical tip-in. And then the partnership, as of late, really since the beginning, was the big value differentiator that we just couldn't find in other companies that're out there. We locked arms with their product management team and their product strategy team right away. We gave them literally two sheets of paper and said these are the things we need to be successful as a service provider using your software. They went down, checked 'em all off. We started goin' at it, and we started then growing that year-over-year for the last three years. So, it's been an amazing partnership. They have a strategic team that understands where the marketing industry's going. And we're going to use them, and leverage them, as much as we possibly can to help out our customers, give 'em the best outcomes they can possibly get. >> When your customers talk to you about backup, where do you see them going? Where is that market headed? >> So backup, traditional backup is something we've been doin' for quite some time. We do petabytes of backups every year for customers. Still using tape, believe it or not, as well. We have a lot of discs-- >> Tape will never die. >> Tape is still out there. I actually have a bumper sticker that I think EMC made when they bought Avamar saying Tape is Dead. And I don't think it's going to die anytime soon. >> Mainframe was dead, too. >> Yeah, right, mainframe has been dead and we still roll new ones into our data centers on a regular basis and then put cloud beside it. But on the backup side of it, if you look at some of the new disasters, right? Look at Atlanta. Their disaster was different. It wasn't a natural disaster, it was a-- >> Radsomeware attack. >> Ransomeware attack. Right, that's a new disaster. We're going to find new disasters, and you can't go and restore back from 24 hours ago and think that that's good. We don't live in that world anymore. It needs to be from five minutes, seven minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it might be. So, we use their journaling today to actually get those quick recoveries. And if they can extend that out, I think it's going to be pretty powerful for customers to say, okay, I want to go back to two years, three days, and six hours from now. And say, gimme that point in time, snap. That's the way I want to actually restore that data. Succeeding in that vision I think will definitely change the game for how we actually look at doing backup and restores in the future. >> A lot of talk at this conference about resilience. >> John: Um hmm. >> Is that a concept that you think customers, your customers, have really internalized? They understand what that means? >> They're getting it, yeah, definitely. I mean, DR even was something that we had to kind of walk them into. But now, if they have an outage, it's not just money that they're losing. It's the reputation. And as we all know now, reputation is key. And you look at Twitter. When somebody has an outage, or has a problem, I mean, their users essentially just blow 'em up and there's memes and all kinds of other stuff. There's a lot of funny ones for the airlines, from Delta and Southwest havin' those challenges. And so, our customers today are realizing that yeah, we can't go a day or two without having service to our customers. We can maybe go a minute or two, but that's about it. We need to make sure we're being resilient with our data. We need to make sure we're protecting it, we'll be able to create ways to quickly roll it back to make sure our customers are up on line. Because they just can't go down anymore. >> How important is security as a driver of resilience and spending on disaster recovery now? >> Yeah, security is definitely, with being able to quickly restore from like a ransomware, it's startin' to bring that infrastructure that has been, security's been a little different there, and where network security's been a little bit different, kind of bringing them together to create, say, we need to have a full package. We not only need to figure out how we're blocking it at the edge and blocking it internally east west, but we need to figure out, if we're going to get breached, 'cause we're going to get breached, how can we quickly restore from that? How can we make sure we're not being held ransom for Bitcoin or whatever the next currency's going to be that they're going to be held ransom for that they just can't pay because maybe it would knock them out of business. >> So, John, Expedient, being a small, specialized cloud service provider, you're kind of dancing with elephants when you're out there with Amazon and Microsoft. What's the secret? What keeps you guys successful and how do you keep viable? >> There's a lot of different things. I think the way we focus on technologies is a little bit unique. I mean, we're there to design the best technical solution for that customer. And not maybe fit them into a one-size-fits-all outfit. The other side of it is, a lot of our customers like the local touch and feel. Majority of our customers are at and around our data centers. That way they can get to learn the facility, they can, even if they're running cloud services with us, they know where it lives. That maybe eases their minds from a compliance standpoint, security standpoint. Or just in a trust, saying, I'm going to take my data that's been living inside of my data center, that's key to my business, and I'm going to give it to somebody, I at least want a face and a name so I can know who to call and who to talk to if there is ever a problem. >> Face to face still matters. >> It does, and I think it's always going to matter. And I think we're always going to have some sort of high interaction with every enterprise out there. And that's what they're going to need. 'Cause this stuff can never commoditize all the way. Creating the solution is still hard. Maybe the bits and pieces underneath it are a little bit easier, but the whole packages is going to always be unique and really hard to define in a one-size-fits-all for a lot of those enterprises. >> John White, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> We'll be back from Zertocon 2018 here in Boston. I'm Paul Gillin, this is The Cube. (light techno music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'mm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018 in Boston, final day of ZertoCON, a beautiful May day, and the key note we heard this morning by John Morency, Gardener analyst, talking about resilience, which is something you've been doing for the last 11 years at Gardener, I understand. >> Yeah, that's right Paul. >> My career at Gardener has really been focused primarily on recovery, continuity, resilience. I've had the good fortune to have done well over 10,000 inquiries with about 3300 organizations across the world. And if nothing else, it's given me a good opportunity to see what's happening, what's not happening in that area, how services and how the technologies of all things, it's been a lot of fun. >> You said something that struck me this morning, you said that two years ago you were sort of a voice in the wilderness talking about resilience. Today it's a mainstream topic. What has changed in that time? >> I think a couple things, number one, so what's happened to resilience in the past couple years, what's changed, number one, the impact in digital business. With digital business, given that it's always on operation, that it scans both production data centers and public clouds, the trying to apply some older technologies or methodologies like disaster recovery to a digital business, and always on digital business, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think what happened was that we began to see both internally as well as externally, a significant rise in customer inquiries, specific to resilience. So, for example, from the calendar year 2017 to 2018, year over year, we've seen a 30, 35% increase in customer related inquiries. Actually we began to sense that something was really going on at our infrastructure and operations data center, so back in 2015 I had about 40 inquiries during that conference and resilience came up in about 75%, and it wasn't just financial services, it wasn't just healthcare, it wasn't just telecom providers, it was lots of different verticals. And so at that time, my conclusion was that something interesting is going on here, but I don't think sometimes that what's happening at a lot of individual clients, sometimes always translates or flows back what Gardener covers from a research standpoint, but I think with e-business, with the focus especially around cyber resilience, threat attack mitigation, if nothing else, cyber attack resilience is probably getting one of the most significant drivers to create the need for resilience. And I think what's happened there is that it's actually pulled through some of the operations availability, some of the data integrity management and so on. So I think without a doubt, cyber resilience has been probably the most significant driver that's really changed. >> When you think back six or eight years ago, it wasn't uncommon for Amazon to go down, or Twitter, the Fail Whale, some big services would go offline sometimes for hours. We don't hear about that anymore. And is that because it's a common place? Or are these organizations now so good at resilience that they virtually eliminate a down time? >> Down time never gets eliminated. We had an interesting discussion with Amazon a few years back, and the perspective that they shared with us was: "Look, we're getting better at sustaining "continuity and availability, "but we'll be the first to admit "that things happen, unexpected things happen, "and they can be the result of an external event "which you can't control, "it can be the result of an internal event.' What's happened is that there's a separation of duties that's interesting to note. So if you look at Amazon and Microsoft and Google, they do a great job at keeping the infrastructure, the cloud services, the infrastructure, the service, alive and humming and scalable, and elastic and so on. However, when you look at what's going on in the context of either a virtual machine, or a container or some other type of compute instance, that's where the provider's responsibilities end from an availability point of view, from a data integrity point of view. And so that's where even though the providers themselves have great service levels, so Amazon may report five nines, six nines, whatever happens to be in terms of unplanned down time, you can still have disruptions for specific customers within virtual private clouds that may be the result of, it could be an external attack, it could be a mass supply change. And so this duality in terms of unplanned downtime from the cloud providers perspective, but from the cloud customers perspective, and the two quite often are very different. >> Interesting point. Now also seeing the emergence of some new computing paradigms, containers, a huge phenomenon right now, serverless computing, microservices in which computers instances may be spun up for literally milliseconds for connections, is that going to create a resilience problem? Or does it, in fact, solve resilience problems? >> I think it could be a little of both. Certainly when you make the compute service less complex in their fewer moving parts, and you leave the orchestration of the service fulfillment function in the hands of the provider who can do a better job at that. That could certainly have an impact on improving the level of resilience. Not just from the provider's point of view, obviously, but from the provider's customer point of view. But with microservices or containers or what have you, there's still the issue of sustainable data integrity. How do I know that my data is what I expect it to be, where I expect it to be, has there been any unplanned change? Because some of the changes in data can be the result of things that have happened internally as well as externally with a given service service provider customer. And so, from that point of view, certainly the fewer moving parts are reduced complexity, the orchestration automation a provider provides no doubt that will help. I think at the same time, there's still some issues, especially around data integrity, cyber tech mitigation, data protection, that I think will still be specific issues and opportunities for cloud provider customers to focus on. >> Now we're about to see companies very excited about the inner and outer things and the possibility of getting into streaming data, really large scale data collection about to come online. What kind of new resilience challenges will that present? >> I think, getting back to what we were talking about earlier, when we look at streaming services or inner and outer things, it's the additional complexity, it's the value chain, if you will. The service deliver chain between the source and the destination, so more moving parts creates opportunity for greater complexity. There's no one entity that is responsible from the serviced assurance point of view for each and every component part. So certainly there's a huge opportunity from a new business opportunity, and a service fulfillment point of view, but from a resilience point of view, given that you have more moving parts that you have distributed entities responsible for managing that, it does create some new risk, new issues, but also new opportunities. Have we as an industry solved all those yet? Not really, I think this is very much a work in progress. >> We've got also, the tremendous focus now on information governance, particularly the new regulations coming online, companies trying to get a better handle on the data that they've got, do these disciplines merge at some point, resilience and governance? >> Very much so, very much so. It gets back to the question, one of the key questions around resilience is who is responsible and accountable for making business and operations resilience within an organization happen? And one of the things that we've seen if you look at it from a senior management point of view, really the responsibility, I think, is co-owned by both the chief risk officer and the chief information officer, and probably you could add the chief information security officer on top of that. But since resilience in many ways is top down, it's not just at the infrastructure level. It has culture implications, it has business process implications, it even has implications on what the individuals within the organization need to know about, what they need to be aware of. All of that is related to effective, top down governance. And in the key note this morning we spoke about that bank that I've worked with. They had that problem in spades in terms of different businesses, different geographies, where to start in terms of the governance model. Where to start, what services and what geographies with what business opportunities? But even with that initial focus, had the bank entirely address it's resilience challenge? Not really and that's a process that likely will take several years to complete. >> And plenty for you to talk about with your clients, those inquiries in the coming years. >> John: Absolutely, absolutely. >> No shortage of changes there. John Morency, thanks very much for joining us. >> My pleasure, Paul. >> We're here in ZertoCON 2018 in Boston, I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Boston Massachusetts, it's The Cube, covering ZertoCon 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is The Cube, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCon in Boston, the final day of ZertoCon. Beautiful day in Boston and a large crowd still here for the event, Zerto's user event. With me is Ziv Kedem the CEO of Zerto and the founder of Zerto. This must be a thrill to you, being here with all these customers, having seen this from the ground up. What are you taking back from the experiences this week? >> This experience is great because it gives us and opportunity to directly interact with our customers, give them a lot of content, educate them and get feedback. Which is important. So I really enjoyed, we had an advisory board with really good attendance. Several companies in the large, high part of the Fortune 500. I seen at one of the things, this is our third event this year, so they were saying is it like the sum of our announcements this year or the things that we discussed in the advisory board of last year and the year before that. So we like to listen because at the end of the day, our customers know their needs much better than we can. >> They come here and they see their feedback to you come to fruition in your latest products. So what are you taking away? Are there one or two big issues that you're taking away from your interactions this week? >> One thing that we're seeing is that everyone is going through the transformation. We've started talking about it this year, and that's exactly what they're doing. All the customers are going through a transformation. Digital transformation, business transformation, IT transformation. So these things are really top of mind for now. And they're all trying to figure out how to do it. They are trying to figure out how to adopt clouds, they all have cloud initiatives, they all know that they are under-utilizing the public cloud. They also realize that they need a hybrid approach, it's not a one size fits all. So we are really hearing that from many customers and how that can relate to their needs of what's in each day, but also into their plans of their of the things they are building over the next two, three, four, five years. >> And what role do you see Zerto playing and enabling this digital transformation? >> So really one of the things that you need to transform is resilience. One of our big announcements is the IT resilience platform. You need your IT to be resilient, because it goes beyond what you choose to be. When people were thinking about resilience's as okay, when something external hits me, it I am hit by a hurricane or an airs quay. But now they also have other bad things like ransomware, like all the security things. >> Right. >> But what we've really figured out, is if their IT is not resilient, then when they try to disrupt themselves, when they are trying to transform, they have new business models, new competition, new technologies. So everyone is transforming and they have to reinvent themselves, and IT is playing a very clear roll in that. Especially in the world today with the so high customer expectations. Customer expectations are getting higher and higher, so they need to supply that to their customers, they need to transform. If your IT is not resilient, that stops you. Everything just stays in place because you know that anything that you remove, will break something else. And when you want to go and move more into things like cloud, like new technologies, you want to change, we see tons of merchant acquisitions. That drives a lot of consolidations, data center consolidations, migrations. They really understand now that if their IT is resilient enough, then they can do these things. They can just decide to do these things and follow where the business wants them and so they can deliver this job and customer experience, increase their revenue and deliver bottom-line savings for their companies. And if not, then they're always the ones that people are waiting for. So there are higher expectations from IT. IT is expected to be in the front seat, driving the customer experience, not in the back seat getting orders and always saying okay, we cannot do that, we have to wait. So they the expectations, it's a great opportunity for IT. They can do much more strategically in their business, but they need to build a very resilient infrastructure. We see Zerto as a tool enabling them, this is a platform they can build their resilience. So really that announcement was that they have one platform that is simple, scalable and covers all of their resilience needs. There's no need to have different tools, this one for DR, this one for back up, this one for migration, this one for information, no. Everything comes in one platform, fully API, fully automated, so they know they are protected. They can focus on generating business, not handholding infrastructure. >> And you've been focusing a lot on convergence I know over the last year. How is that coming to fruition in the latest version of Zerto? >> So this is something we're implementing in every version, we're putting more of the convergence up. But we made a very big announcement of what we call Zerto 7. We're on 6 now. That version will be available in Q1 of 2019. This version will take care of the entire lifespan of the data. So if you need something to be available, if you're had a problem and now you want to recover something from seconds ago, seven seconds ago, but if you now have some discover request coming from your legal department, and you need to be able to recover the things years ago. So this is our messaging on Zerto 7, whether seven seconds or seven years, all in one platform. It's really putting this continuous thing that we've already been afraid of. Like continuous data production, Zerto is practically the world's leading product at that. Now also take it on the back end and how do you retain this data for a very long time in efficient ways, how you can use it, put it on a much cheaper storage so you don't need, because cost reduction is top priority for every CIO today. >> As you look forward, it seems there is a lot of activity right now in information governance and data catalogs. Company's are really getting a handle on what information they have, partially driven by regulations. How do you see Zerto's role evolving in that aspect of helping organizations just understanding what their data landscape is? >> This is exactly what we're talking about, it's all about cataloging when they have it, how long they have it, and giving them the right tool to have it all in one place. The real problem is not that they don't know any specific detail, it's just that it's scattered across different applications, different tools, different systems. The systems don't talk to each other, and when they do this is sort of, when you lump a bunch of tools together, it always looks like a bunch of tools lumped together. Right, you cannot hide this. And putting it all in one simple thing that solves their needs. To talk about what they need rather than the concepts they had before with DR, backup, migrational information, separate tools. So it really messes up everything, where this relates that you have a workload, you know to predict it, you can control how long you retain this data. Because it's just as important as it is for organizations to keep their data, it's also important for them to know, okay once I don't need it, if this is data for three years, I do not want to have this data after five or four years. Because they need to know where it is, otherwise they're in a scope, having data that they don't know about. So they want to have very clear rules and have something that they'll know, this is exactly what to have, not less, but also not more. >> As you look forward, one of the jobs of the CEO is to define a vision. Where is Zerto going? When you look out over the next three years or so, where is Zerto going? >> So we have defined in Zerto our mission statement, as building a wall of uninterrupted IT, or technology, because IT is the center of this technology. And this has been with us for many years, and that is still where we're driving. When we're looking out two, three years, it's all about a convergence of all the IT resilience, into this one platform. This is what we hear from our customers, our customers are excited to get this all together because no one likes managing tools. I've just been in a meeting with an extremely large customer, and they're building, okay we need to see how that maps into my business objectives. I have just made a huge acquisition, we've got another one on the way and everything, I want to have something which I know how that goes. So I can go to my board and say this is what we have, this is how we're protected, this is my risk assessment, and I am absolutely confident that anything there won't leave me desolate. I'm not depending on 500 people to be doing disparaging things and I say if all of them do the right thing, then we will be resilient. So we need to know, okay we're doing this, and it will work. That is the definition of resilience for us. >> Would you say the resilience message that the customers have internalized this, do they understand it well, and are they ready to take it back to their business? >> Absolutely. Absolutely, this is, I wouldn't say that they internalize it, I think that we internalized that, right. We got that from the customers, so following it right to resilience, this is something Gartner part of it, and how did they get it? By talking to customers. If you look at the concepts, these were already things that the customers needed. It's just when we say, alright this is exactly the initiative that we have, and this is what we need to do. We're trying to figure out how to do. We've got all these high level initiatives, and now we need to see how we can actually take them in to action. So this message is, we're seeing it very well aligned with our customers. >> It's a clear mission, clearly defined. Ziv Kedem, thanks very much for joining us on The Cube. >> Thank you very much! >> We're here at ZertoCon 2018 in Boston. I'm Paul Gillin, this is The Cube. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering ZertoCON 2018, brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'm Paul Gillin, we're on the ground here in Boston for ZertoCON 2018 The third ZertoCON, and with me is a gentleman who has been to all the ZertoCONs as well as many years before that, Gil Levonai, the Chief Marketing Officer at Zerto, welcome, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me here. >> You were one of the first people at Zerto I understand, way back in the day >> Yeah, yeah I'm kind of like ground zero type person here in Zerto, I managed back then the product team and the marketing team. Then we grew bigger and bigger And now I own all of the marketing for Zerto. >> So how do you feel coming to a conference like this with all these people here, you've got big name keynote speakers, having joined the company as one of the earliest employees, what does that feel like? >> It's like, I have three teenagers, so I know what it means to be proud of your child, it's a very proud moment, okay. Because really, I think the caliber of customers we see here in the conference, first there's the quantity of customers, et cetera, but also the caliber of customers, the caliber of discussion that's happening here, is really, it really makes me proud. And knowing that this company started a few years ago from, just like any other startup, a very small company, and now we're really making a dent in the industry, and changing and making customers successful, is really really proud. >> Your first user conference is a milestone of sorts isn't it? >> Yeah, two years ago it was really like having a child now it's like we've gotten into a rhythm we know what we're doing now, we know what the conference looks like and we know what it means. But, just like with children, the older they get, the bigger the challenges. Same thing, the bigger the conference gets, different challenges, and it's a always hectic few weeks. >> But very valuable because you come here and you have a chance to talk to customers nonstop really for three days, what are you hearing from them? What are the trends that are emerging to you from the conversations you're having out there? >> So with, going back to why I was hired to Zerto, as one of the first few people, is actually a good example of that. Because I was hired because I was actually a marketing and product management guy, hired in Zerto before we actually wrote our first line of code. Why? Because we want to make sure that we talk to customers and we get their feedback and we get our guidelines in what we should be doing, back in that day. So from that point on, we always are doing the same thing, we're listening to our customers. that's kind of like a key DNA for Zerto. So this conference is an amazing place to do that, to really hear from our customers what are there challenges, we had our Customer Advisor Board, we had our Partner Advisor Board here, but also everybody hallway conversation with the customers is the same thing. What do you need to do, what are you trying to do that you're not capable of doing? And that's where we actually understand the trends and the marketing. We have John and people like that, that analyze, are amazing but there's nothing like an unbiased conversation with a customer and understanding their needs. And what we see, is really two major aspects. And kind of like as you've mentioned in the skin. One, the delays are totally different. It's really, really, really unacceptable to be down, or to lose data, done. No industry can do that, no type of customer, no size of customer, it doesn't matter if you're retail, if you're airline, or if you're banking. >> Paul: Five nines isn't enough anymore. >> People, we all have phones, we used to always on, and everything needs to be always on. So that drives the whole narrative of guys, I can't tell you hey I'm going to recover from two hours ago, it's not enough anymore, okay. The second thing is they are all facing a lot of complexities in kind of like the changing infrastructure. They all want to move to cloud, we hear about continuing, we hear about the cloud, private cloud, hybrid cloud. And it's all really coming from the right reasons, it's coming from trying to change their business models. It's coming from trying to change their cost structure. But it introduce so much complexity, so between these two, they just need to really rethink the way they're doing what they're doing. In terms of data protection, mobility, et cetera, and that's where we came to this kind of like high-resilience platform concept, from the needs of the market. >> So we see customers, they want more flexibility, they want to use multiple clouds, they want hybrid clouds, they want to shift workloads around seamlessly, all of this has risk, and resilience in an environment like that is challenging. What is Zerto going to do to make that more seamless for them? >> I think resilience is double challenging. It's challenging because, really to be successful, you can't only be kind of resilient to hey how am I addressing bad things have happened. You need to be resilient to the fact that, you changing your business is part of your business now, okay. And how am I effectively change my business, run forward, run fast, while I'm not leaving behind any gaps, or anything that hey, I might get struck by some bad luck, or intentional cyber thing, okay and lose my business, and that happens also. You'll see major companies that have big impacts on their business because of events like that. So, the key to doing that, is really, to A, simplify the way you protect everything, and really move to what we call continuous protection, and that's from a product perspective, but think about it from a meta doz perspective. You need to have the ability to always recover anytime, anywhere, whatever you need, realistically, whenever you need it. It's the only way possible, and only technologies that are, we started from, we're coming from the high-end of the market to this much wider market. Because we're coming from protecting huge Oracle databases, with huge change rates, which seconds of our bills, okay. That's our DNA, that's what we know to now take that into entire kind of like IT, say you need that IT to be available wherever you need it, and you need to be able to protect it at any point in time, and move everything around between clouds as you say, and that's where our contacts are messaging the market. You need to be able to do that, our platform is the way to do that. But that's the only way you can actually, not only survive what's going on, but also thrive in this environment. >> Now that's because you have a converged platform, and the time is right, I hear Zerto executives saying the time is right for convergence, why is that? >> It's when you see the market, look today at any player in the back of the R-space website, all say the same thing. Why are all, everybody's saying the same thing. Everybody's saying the same thing, because everybody's trying to sell the same thing. Everybody's trying to set all of these business cases okay. And some don't fully converge, or they do it doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is, from a customer perspective, if you look at any vendor today in this space, all of them are trying to provide all of these services. So that's where we see, hey, this is what's happening. And the customers are also telling us, guys, we are using, we just heard it on stage now, we are using Zerto instead of our backup. Why? Because in the short-term retention you're giving us a much better solution. So we see from the customers that they're saying hey, I want less systems, I want one place where I go, and I can mobilize, I can protect, I can recover, I have compliance, I have ransomware protection, all of that in one place, so the market is really telling us convergence is happening right there. And that's where I kind of like, we believe we have the best DNA in the base for technology to provide that converged solution, because eventually it's about the atomic engine of how are you doing your protection, and I think we have the best avenue there. But if you look at, everybody's the same, talking the convergence game. >> Well so where is backup going long-term, does eventually does backup disappear, or does everything become continuous? >> Not in a million years, literally, okay no pun intended. Because everybody, the legal holds, the compliance >> Paul: Retention schedules. >> The act of backing up your data, your application, that's not going away, that's going to stay. We believe that there is a shift that needs to take place in the market that we're leading is, what do I, what does short-term backup mean, okay. 'Cause short-term backup is really, kind of like the same thing today as recovering from once more, it's the same thing as mobilizing an application. And that needs to be continuous, and then you need one platform that can also take care of your long-term, you know months years, depending on what industry you're in, regulated backups. I just talked to a large customer of ours last night, in our break party, he said, hey I'm doing 14 days, and I don't care about anything after that. I'm in an unregulated industry, and I do what's good for my business, and for my business, 14 days is good. I don't really need anything, I sometime have some more copies later, but that's it. So the actual uses of backup depends on the industry. But it's not going away, there's no question that the use case of backup is staying, we think that the way technology, the technology that drives that should change. >> As we're talking today, we 're two days out from the implementation of GDPR in the European Union, does this have an impact on your business? >> Oh a major impact, first of all, we're a company, number one, I don't know if you know but, >> International company. >> Yes, and we work globally, we have offices and places in Europe, and customers in Europe, and operations in Europe, so all of that. We're marketing, you know our marketing guy, we're marketing in Europe. We actually had a session here in the conference, a joint session by our corporate council, and some customers talking about the GDPR, because it's actually a joint project in Zerto, from all sides, to say okay, what do we do with the GDPR. So us as a company, that's number one. Second thing is for our customers. There's a number of things, that you know, for example, take a look at knowing where your data is. Which is part of GDPR, we had helped by identifying exactly where is your data, where is your back up data, where is your application data, et cetera. There's lots of kind of like, we believe there's going to be more and less compliance kind of like related things that we converge for GDPR, but also you know there's like the rights to be forgotten, what does that mean about backups. Do I need to now go open all my backups >> Paul: Still open. >> So if you can see, and again, not me but we have people that go down, for example, the right to be forgotten is one of the less stronger rights. Because I think even the regulator understood, it's a bit hard to forget someone from you know, do I need to open my backup from like five years, and delete something, that's going to be a huge cost. So there's definitely going to be implications, and I think time will tell where this is going, in terms of like what are the bigger implications. >> No shortage of agendas for Zerto going forward, that's for sure. >> Gil: Oh no shortage, no. >> Gil Levonai thank you very much for joining us, Chief Marketing Officer at Zerto. >> Thank you very very much, >> We will be right back, I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. >> Gil: Thank you very much. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Boston Massachusetts it's theCUBE covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here in Boston for ZertoCON and with me is Rob Strechay. He's the Senior Vice President of Product for Zerto and Rob, I understand here you have one of the big items of news is Zerto 7 is being announced. Tell us about what's new in Zerto 7. >> Yeah, so we're announcing Zerto 7, it'll be out in Q1 of 2019. We're real excited because really it's the first time that the IT Resiliance Platform that we've put out will also include in the convergence of backup, disaster recovery and cloud mobility all into one singular platform. We've been building upon this platform for years. People have come to know us for continuous data protection and our journal-based data protection. And now we're extending that over time to give people a better view and better resiliancy across near-term and the long-term. >> Alright now I think of back up as being kind of table stakes in the resiliance game, but the backup features are actually new for you in this release. Is that right? >> Absolutely. What we've done is enhance what we had. We had some backup features in there already. We already got used for recovering for things like ransom-ware used in our journal level file recovery where people can go back like a DVR, a few seconds before they got hit. Be able to pull the file, folder, or entire virtual machine back and pull that out like if you were using a backup. In fact, much quicker our customers tell us than Legacy Backup. But table stakes is having enhanced indexing and search capabilities across all of your different platforms. Having dedicated workflows that are integrated into the current recovery workflows. Things of that nature, that really are in Zerto 7 that would take us to the next level. >> Now backup is a fairly painful process for most IT Admins though, what is Zerto doing to make that simpler? >> Yeah, I think the great thing is we have over 6,000 customers already that utilize us and trust us for data protection on a daily basis. We're extending those workflows to say okay, I need a weekly, a monthly, a quarterly, or a daily even and I want to keep that for a certain amount of time. Right now they would see maybe one day to 30 days back in what we call our Journal. And now we're extending that so they see the points in time beyond that and helps to simplify those workflows for those customers. Because, really the complexity comes from I have a media server, I have single points of failure, I have to worry about did I get that backup or not. The journal technology we have actually alleviates that. Plus, we've been doing this at scale for many years with many thousands of customers and we know that that's been one of the pain points for our customers around backup too. We didn't take this lightly to go further into this market. We thought that, really, the market was ripe for convergence of these products. >> Alright, now go one layer deeper on journaling. I mean that's a technology that's been around for a long time, but really not so much in the backup space. What are you doing that's different with your approach to journaling? >> Yeah, so we actually brought this out back in 2011, so we've been doing it for about seven years now. And we took a different approach to disaster recovery. Allows for a lot more granular recovery in seconds. So you have recovery point objectives that are very near and then you get quicker recovery time objectives, as well. So, a lot of this journaling technology was how do you have the right order fidelity of all of these systems as an application? Now doing that and saying okay I want to take a point in time and I want to keep it as my gold copy for three months because I have a business or a corporate mandate that says this is the retention periods that I have. Really brings together what we've been doing in journaling for years as we went from being the first to put out a hypervisor-based replication and journaling system. Then we took it to what they call the DR as a surface market when we took customers to public cloud in 2014 and back from public cloud in 2016 and now we really have any-to-any technology across those different platforms all using that same underlying journaling technology. But it does it in different ways in clouds versus say VMware's hypervisor. >> Now how do you coordinate the complexity of that environment? You've got customers who have some backup on prims, some backup in the cloud that maybe have multiple clouds. How do you coordinate all that backup? >> Yeah, I think it's been really one of the things we've been working on for some amount of time already. So they're starting to see the fruits of our labor about how you have a distributed, scalable system that automatically does that. So, we're not just a replication engine or just a journaling system, we actually embed the orchestration in automation into the system. That way it's wrapped in. It's kind of like having an engine and having the steering wheel at the same time. Then we wrap a nav system, which is our analytics product, around that to give people guidance on how to utilize it. So, to your point, we try to make it easy. In fact one of our pillars is it better be simple, like real simple, otherwise we don't ship it. >> There are a lot of vendors in the various aspects backup, DR market, how is Zerto differentiating itself? >> Yeah, I think that we're not doing backup. We're doing a completely different way of taking this. Backup has been done typically either with agents or with snapshot technology. Maybe you go back four hours in time if you get hit with ransom-ware. Because we already have and can see that data, in the journal, seconds of granularity. So say somebody's loading a database on a Friday night and doing an ETL into the database, of a terabyte of data. We'll see that terabyte go in and all those changes happen. You could actually utilize the journal after you've actually done the load so you can take a pre and a post copy of that. So I have before I made the changes and after I made the changes which really helps customers in a unique way. >> You get into some very large file sizes, I would imagine, when you're doing that many copies of data How do you manage the volumes? >> Yeah, we have some technology inside the product that is space efficient, uses things such as compression and other types of technology. For doing the backup and in Zerto 7 for long-term retention or secondary storage we're partnering with people like HPE and their StoreOnce product set. We have other partners of ours like Exit Grid here and their NFS enabled secondary storage. Plus we'll use some of the typical S3, SMB, as well as cloud-based as targets because we think that they have some of that built-in hardware and built-in technology that really does a better job of doing the compaction. We're not trying to be a purpose built appliance for everybody, we look at being a software company and leveraging those really good secondary storage devices and clouds as the targets. >> One of the themes of the conference we heard John Morency of Gartner talking about this morning was resilience and really moving beyond backup and disaster recovery to business resilience. How well are your customers taking to that message? >> It's amazing, I think that when I go out and talk to our customer CIOs and VPs of Infrastructure or even just to Sys Admins, they're looking for resiliancy. They're looking for a single product that can bring together backup, disaster recovery and that cloud mobility. I think, you heard one of our customers up on stage with Morency, Jamie from Takata, that really has embraced that. They're actually, kind of, I would say pushing the cutting edge of seven different cloud providers and utilizing us as that platform. >> Paul: By design seven different cloud providers. >> Yeah, by design and part of that is if you look at GVPR and all the different regulations across the world they have to deal with, it's easier for them. But they know that they utilizes us as an IT Resilience platform that enables them to go those different places. >> You mentioned ransom-ware earlier, have you seen the growth of ransom-ware continue or is that now slowing down finally being displaced by crypto-mining and some other. >> I think that it's always there. I think that it flares up from time to time. And it's not a, as Ziv, our CEO and Founder, said yesterday, it's not if you're going to get hit by ransom-ware, it's when. And I think that being resilient and having a resiliency in depth type of approach really is important for that as well. >> So, in the time that we've got left talk about the future. What's the road map for Zerto going forward the next couple of years? >> Yeah, so this year we're laying out the IT Resilience platform, building it out and continuing to build upon what we've done as we see and where we see a lot of our customers going. Containers are a big thing and we see that infusion of containers in our customer base is growing rapidly. So we'll be looking at some new approaches to that. And we think we're uniquely positioned based on our underlying technology to take advantage of that. Cloud-born apps are a big one, as well. But because we're already in the cloud working with Azure as one of our key partners and Amazon, as well, we get to see how these all come together. And we have a unique seat at the table for going forward. >> Rob, I can't let you go without asking you to stand up please and show the camera the official Zerto colors. If anyone is walking the walk here it's Rob Strechay wearing pants of the official Zerto color. Where do you find pants of that color? >> You can find them, the great thing is being in Massachusetts there's a lot of different companies that make Nantucket Red, which is not really Nantucket Red, it's more like a Fire Engine Red, but these in particular I had made for me for this conference this week, so. >> I figure you can find anything in the Boston area. >> Absolutely. >> Rob Strechay, thank you very much for joining us. >> Rob: Much appreciate it, thanks for having me on. >> I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. (tech music)

>> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube, covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is the Cube, I'm Paul Gillin, we're on the ground here in Boston for ZertoCON 2018 and joining me is Bill Manning who's in infrastructure operations at Woodforest National Bank. Now I was not familiar with Woodforest National Bank but I understand that regular visitors to WalMart in the south probably are. You're the WalMart bank I understand. >> That's what a lot of people like to call us. >> Your many branches are located in WalMarts in other words. And based in Houston, which has been no stranger to disasters lately >> Correct. >> The topic of IT resilience very much fresh on your mind. What is IT resilience mean in terms of your operations at Woodforest? >> We need to be very resilient in terms of natural disasters, hurricanes mostly. So, in order to prepare ourselves for that we migrate, 70% of our infrastructure between data centers every six months. When hurricane season starts we migrate away from Houston. When it's done, we migrate back. >> Now, why the migration strategy? Why move between data centers? Why not just settle on one data center that's out of harm's way if you will. >> Well there's no one data center that's out of 100% harm's way, so you need to make sure that if one data center goes down, you can always come up at your backup, or your primary data center. >> Now how did you become a Zerto customer? I understand you were one of their first, their first customer? >> We were their first customer we had Kashya before them and then RecoverPoint. Kashya was the precursor to Zerto. And whenever we were having issues with our replication appliance, we decided to look into Zerto, and we bought, implemented, and turned on Zerto fairly quickly. So we were the first customer and then we were the first customer that was using it. We actively utilized it to run a migration. And so far everything's going great. We love the product. And it works very well for us. >> Now being the first customer of a product is typically thought of as a risky proposition. What pushed you over the tipping point? >> We had an appliance that kept failing on us and the last failure was the straw, that broke the back. So we already had Zerto in a, I believe it was an alpha, possibly a beta test implementation, and when that straw finally broke, we turned off the appliance and we turned on Zerto. And it was very seamless. And yes there were headaches. We had issues with it. But a lot of the support tickets, all of the enhancement requests, a lot of those have our name on it. Because we utilized it. >> So you're doing the cloud migration every six months. What are some of the operational issues that you have to take into account when you're moving that size of processing load a couple hundred miles away? Or maybe Austin, maybe 100 miles away. >> We do it so often it's kind of second nature to us now. But we know the pain points of if you do it regularly, you know what happened last time. Hopefully you documented it. And you know what can happen this time. And a lot of times it's Firewall rules, it's what did we do at our current data center that we forgot to do at our other data center, in preparation for migration. So our biggest pain point is making sure we don't forget, oh hey we did something here, let's make sure to replicate it over and do the same thing over at our other data center. >> How has the role of backup changed over the time you've been using Zerto? It's not really, you don't have the luxury of point in time backups anymore. It's a continuous process, isn't it? >> Well we don't utilize Zerto for backups. We utilize another product for our primary backup system and we are a bank. We have seven year retention policies. So there are certain things that we have to keep on tape or on disk for a certain number of years. And Zerto doesn't immediately offer that to us. However we do utilize Zerto in a kind of pseudo backup process. If we need to recover a file that got deleted accidentally, I can either spend an hour using our other process or 10 minutes using Zerto. So we just pop into Zerto, use the journal file level recovery and there you go. >> You had, being in Houston you had a number of major storms in recent years. Are there any stories you can share with us about how you have managed to stay up and running during those storms? >> Our first storm, our first big storm right after Katrina was Rita. And when Rita came through, we didn't have what we have today. We ended up powering down non-critical items and making sure our critical applications were up and running. And luckily we didn't lose much power. We didn't lose any networking. Where as, during Harvey, we lost some networking for a week or two. The difference was we already moved everything to our secondary data center well away from the hurricane. And sure, one of our redundant paths was down. Our other one was up. We still had connectivity and we were doing great. So in terms of where we progress, hurricane season is what we are mainly concerned with. So we utilize Zerto, we move everything over. So if our data center, our primary data center in Houston goes down, we're mildly affected and customers shouldn't even notice. >> How does this make your business more resilient? I mean is this actually, is there business benefits to your, for your customers? >> Of course. >> Of the business being this resilient? >> If we're a bank and our ATMs go down, and we can't get them back up for a few days, our customers notice. If we're a bank and our primary systems go down and you can't take money out of your account for I believe the timeframe is 72 hours, the Federal government comes in and they own us now. We are no longer a bank. Because we didn't, we failed at providing services for our customers, for an extended period of time. And that's unacceptable. So to mitigate that we use a DR strategy. We use a business continuity plan. And we make sure that if something were to happen, even if it were outside of hurricane season, or if we were during hurricane season, and we had an issue at our other data center, Zerto allows us to bring everything back up within minutes. And because we do it regularly, if we're not going to have as many headaches as someone that just says, "Oh, well we've implemented Zerto but we don't utilize it." We run a few test failovers to make sure that we can actually migrate, but we don't bring anything up and run production load. We run production load every six months using Zerto. So that's how we get around making sure that we're highly available and we don't get taken over by the government. >> I hear a lot of talk, Bill, these days about digital transformation. How real is that to what Woodforest is doing? How are you changing the way you do business? >> I think it's already hard for us. I mean we've already gone digital. When I first started, we had couriers picking up paperwork from the branches and taking them to centralized processing locations, and running everything manually. Now it's all digitally. And that was partially thanks to 9/11. There was proof work they couldn't run for weeks because airports were down. And because of that banks started already going digital. So we already have digital transactions. Now if you write a check at WalMart, instead of taking a few days or a week or two to clear, it clears that day or the next day. Because it's all digital. WalMart went digital, we went digital. Most banks are already going digital or have already gone digital. So we just kind of, people ask, we're mostly already there. We're already digital. >> How about cloud? What's your road map when it comes to using multiple cloud providers? >> We're definitely looking into it, they give us a lot of benefit. They give us a lot of service that we can... >> You got a lot of flexibility. >> Flexibility, sure. Flexibility in doing things that we can't necessarily do ourselves. Right now we're taking baby steps. We're not throwing full production load into the cloud. We're looking at, let's put our development environment up there and see what it can provide for our developers. And so far they're enjoying what the opportunities or the possibilities can be. So we're looking forward to hopefully this year getting them up and running and in the cloud and enjoying all of the benefits from there. And after that once we get some development done in there, then we'll probably start seeing some production applications being put into the cloud. Some sort of probably SAS server offering. >> Well hurricane season is coming up in just a couple of months. I wish you the best >> Thank you so much. >> this season. Bill Manning thanks very much for joining us. >> Thank you very much, I appreciate it. >> We'll be right back from ZertoCON, I'm Paul Gillin, this is the Cube. (upbeat tech beats)

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE! Covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE. I'm Paul Gillin here on the ground in Boston at ZertoCON 2018, the final day of Zerto's user conference. Here in Boston and joining me now is Avi Raichel. (laughing) I hope I didn't butcher that too badly. Avi Raichel, who is Chief Information Officer at Zerto, and welcome, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me, Paul. >> CIO at a software company is a bit of an unusual position, right? Because you're a user of the product, so you have to give unvarnished feedback to your developers, but you also have input into how the product is built. How does a CIO interact with the product side of the business? >> Yeah, you're spot-on Paul. As the CIO I've got a unique point of view within the management team of the company, because I have the same role as the customers we're trying to sell to. So yeah, the product team and the marketing team and the sales team can use me as a sounding board to see that we're taking the product to the right direction. And of course we use it, so we can give honest feedback on how it is working. >> Do you see CIOs becoming increasingly involved in the resilience issue? Is this becoming a C-level issue? >> Yeah, I believe it is, and this because of the digital transformation. Because almost any organization in the world is going through a digital transformation, one way of another I.T is becoming more and more critical part of the business. So once so much relies on I.T, I.T resilience becomes a significant issue because, let's say your health care provider now, a lot of your operations are digitalized. Can you really afford the down time? What does it mean? So this is become a strategic risk for organisation. You can talk about significant revenue leakage, about huge brand, reputation if you have problems. So, I.T resilience is become massive, every organization needs to have. >> A lot at stake. Talk about your own internal I.T infrastructure. Your use of clouds, and where are your data centers located? >> So, like most organizations, we are in this landscape of hybrid-multi cloud I.T infrastructure. We have few data centers, we have small data center that is on-prem. We have the Colo data center, and of course we use the public clouds and modern, one of them, and I think this will be the reality going forward. I think once the hype of the cloud settled down, everybody understands that you don't put everything in one single cloud. And I.T needs to enter this hybrid reality, and part of I.T resiliency is this workload mobility, and having the option to move workloads between the data centers. >> So what is the business case that you would make for going multi-cloud? >> I think there are a couple of reasons. One, is one of the barriers to going in to the cloud, the public cloud, one of the concerns is the locking. I think organization needs to worry that the putting all the eggs in one basket, and when you craft cloud strategy, one of the things you need to pay attention to is do you have an exit strategy? What happens if tomorrow, prices are not to your liking, or, you don't feel you're getting the right operational level? So you need to be able to move, and make sure this is not a one-way journey that leaves you in doubt. Without options. That is one aspect. The second aspect is, in the end, you will find that many workloads are optimized for a specific cloud. Some things can run better on the dual, some things can run better on the beleur, so, or on Google, so by natural evolvement, you will find yourself with several clouds. And of course, there are workloads that in the end, shouldn't go to the cloud. That's part of the hype, is over, that not everything is cloud-ready, and sometimes you should leave some workloads on-prem or in a Colo data center. That creates this hybrid reality. >> Are you able to dynamically shift workloads between cloud providers, or do you pretty much assign a workload to a specific provider and leave it there? >> You can. You can move them. That's one of the nice things that a Zerto product has not between all the providers in the world, but with the Zerto product, you can actually mobilize from your data center, or to a Dual or AWSM between them. So this is something that, you definitely can do. And I really feel that the next few years we will see more and more of that, as you will start to have smart placement of clouds, depending on commercials, quotas, and optimization. >> Of course, you're a user of your company's product. What features do you find most useful in running the I.T operations at Zerto? >> So, I think that the product started of course from V.R with continuous data protection. And that is the basic usage, and for that this is a great product that can give you the peace of mind that your infrastructure is resilient, and in case something happens, you can recover within, I feel, seconds, within few minutes, which is great. But I also find this workload mobility feature very useful. Just last month, we've mobilized about 50 workloads from our on-premise data center to the Colo data center, and it was just a few hours of work, with the Zerto product and without any downtime, which is fantastic. >> We're just two days out as we record this, two days out from the implementation of the general data protection regulation in Europe, which you do a lot of business in Europe, how has that impacted your role as a CIO? >> I think as a CIO, all these regulations are something that you must address, and you must have an honest look at at all the data flows within the organization, and make sure that you're complying with this regulation, so this is an initiative we took on in the last few months, together with our legal department, to map everything, and make sure that once the regulations go live, we are ready. >> One of that tiny percentage who expects to be ready in time? >> I think at this stage nobody can really say exactly what ready means, because this is new, but we're making an honest effort to complete the mapping, and to make sure that the way we understand, and what our consultants tell us, that the regulations means, that we are complying, with, we feel we are relatively in a good place. This is not something organizations should ignore. >> Right. So as you talk to your peers, to other CIOs and other organizations, what do you see as being the principal priorities they have, over the next 12 months or so? >> So, I think that CIOs, still like I said, with digital transformation, where technology is the engine, driving force will be the customer experience, employee experience. I think everybody is still early-on with the journey to the cloud, and this is something that will still take few years, until everybody completes the journey. Cyber is, of course, strategic risk for companies, so almost all CIOs deal with developing and building security program that tackles not only predict and protect, but also the detect and response capabilities that the organization require. I think finding ways to leverage the data assets within the organization is a great opportunity for I.T. And I think there is a number of technologies that are reaching their maturity stage, things like Artificial Intelligence, machine learning, blockchain and I.O.T. So, CIOs should find a way, the right use case, to implement those technology for the organization. Not for the sake of implementating cool technologies, but because they really bring disruptive innovation that can generate significant business value. >> Very exciting time and also a risky time. >> Yup, of course. >> Avi Raichel, thankyou for joining us on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> We'll be right back. From ZertoCON in Boston, I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. (upbeat techno music)