(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'mm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018 in Boston, final day of ZertoCON, a beautiful May day, and the key note we heard this morning by John Morency, Gardener analyst, talking about resilience, which is something you've been doing for the last 11 years at Gardener, I understand. >> Yeah, that's right Paul. >> My career at Gardener has really been focused primarily on recovery, continuity, resilience. I've had the good fortune to have done well over 10,000 inquiries with about 3300 organizations across the world. And if nothing else, it's given me a good opportunity to see what's happening, what's not happening in that area, how services and how the technologies of all things, it's been a lot of fun. >> You said something that struck me this morning, you said that two years ago you were sort of a voice in the wilderness talking about resilience. Today it's a mainstream topic. What has changed in that time? >> I think a couple things, number one, so what's happened to resilience in the past couple years, what's changed, number one, the impact in digital business. With digital business, given that it's always on operation, that it scans both production data centers and public clouds, the trying to apply some older technologies or methodologies like disaster recovery to a digital business, and always on digital business, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think what happened was that we began to see both internally as well as externally, a significant rise in customer inquiries, specific to resilience. So, for example, from the calendar year 2017 to 2018, year over year, we've seen a 30, 35% increase in customer related inquiries. Actually we began to sense that something was really going on at our infrastructure and operations data center, so back in 2015 I had about 40 inquiries during that conference and resilience came up in about 75%, and it wasn't just financial services, it wasn't just healthcare, it wasn't just telecom providers, it was lots of different verticals. And so at that time, my conclusion was that something interesting is going on here, but I don't think sometimes that what's happening at a lot of individual clients, sometimes always translates or flows back what Gardener covers from a research standpoint, but I think with e-business, with the focus especially around cyber resilience, threat attack mitigation, if nothing else, cyber attack resilience is probably getting one of the most significant drivers to create the need for resilience. And I think what's happened there is that it's actually pulled through some of the operations availability, some of the data integrity management and so on. So I think without a doubt, cyber resilience has been probably the most significant driver that's really changed. >> When you think back six or eight years ago, it wasn't uncommon for Amazon to go down, or Twitter, the Fail Whale, some big services would go offline sometimes for hours. We don't hear about that anymore. And is that because it's a common place? Or are these organizations now so good at resilience that they virtually eliminate a down time? >> Down time never gets eliminated. We had an interesting discussion with Amazon a few years back, and the perspective that they shared with us was: "Look, we're getting better at sustaining "continuity and availability, "but we'll be the first to admit "that things happen, unexpected things happen, "and they can be the result of an external event "which you can't control, "it can be the result of an internal event.' What's happened is that there's a separation of duties that's interesting to note. So if you look at Amazon and Microsoft and Google, they do a great job at keeping the infrastructure, the cloud services, the infrastructure, the service, alive and humming and scalable, and elastic and so on. However, when you look at what's going on in the context of either a virtual machine, or a container or some other type of compute instance, that's where the provider's responsibilities end from an availability point of view, from a data integrity point of view. And so that's where even though the providers themselves have great service levels, so Amazon may report five nines, six nines, whatever happens to be in terms of unplanned down time, you can still have disruptions for specific customers within virtual private clouds that may be the result of, it could be an external attack, it could be a mass supply change. And so this duality in terms of unplanned downtime from the cloud providers perspective, but from the cloud customers perspective, and the two quite often are very different. >> Interesting point. Now also seeing the emergence of some new computing paradigms, containers, a huge phenomenon right now, serverless computing, microservices in which computers instances may be spun up for literally milliseconds for connections, is that going to create a resilience problem? Or does it, in fact, solve resilience problems? >> I think it could be a little of both. Certainly when you make the compute service less complex in their fewer moving parts, and you leave the orchestration of the service fulfillment function in the hands of the provider who can do a better job at that. That could certainly have an impact on improving the level of resilience. Not just from the provider's point of view, obviously, but from the provider's customer point of view. But with microservices or containers or what have you, there's still the issue of sustainable data integrity. How do I know that my data is what I expect it to be, where I expect it to be, has there been any unplanned change? Because some of the changes in data can be the result of things that have happened internally as well as externally with a given service service provider customer. And so, from that point of view, certainly the fewer moving parts are reduced complexity, the orchestration automation a provider provides no doubt that will help. I think at the same time, there's still some issues, especially around data integrity, cyber tech mitigation, data protection, that I think will still be specific issues and opportunities for cloud provider customers to focus on. >> Now we're about to see companies very excited about the inner and outer things and the possibility of getting into streaming data, really large scale data collection about to come online. What kind of new resilience challenges will that present? >> I think, getting back to what we were talking about earlier, when we look at streaming services or inner and outer things, it's the additional complexity, it's the value chain, if you will. The service deliver chain between the source and the destination, so more moving parts creates opportunity for greater complexity. There's no one entity that is responsible from the serviced assurance point of view for each and every component part. So certainly there's a huge opportunity from a new business opportunity, and a service fulfillment point of view, but from a resilience point of view, given that you have more moving parts that you have distributed entities responsible for managing that, it does create some new risk, new issues, but also new opportunities. Have we as an industry solved all those yet? Not really, I think this is very much a work in progress. >> We've got also, the tremendous focus now on information governance, particularly the new regulations coming online, companies trying to get a better handle on the data that they've got, do these disciplines merge at some point, resilience and governance? >> Very much so, very much so. It gets back to the question, one of the key questions around resilience is who is responsible and accountable for making business and operations resilience within an organization happen? And one of the things that we've seen if you look at it from a senior management point of view, really the responsibility, I think, is co-owned by both the chief risk officer and the chief information officer, and probably you could add the chief information security officer on top of that. But since resilience in many ways is top down, it's not just at the infrastructure level. It has culture implications, it has business process implications, it even has implications on what the individuals within the organization need to know about, what they need to be aware of. All of that is related to effective, top down governance. And in the key note this morning we spoke about that bank that I've worked with. They had that problem in spades in terms of different businesses, different geographies, where to start in terms of the governance model. Where to start, what services and what geographies with what business opportunities? But even with that initial focus, had the bank entirely address it's resilience challenge? Not really and that's a process that likely will take several years to complete. >> And plenty for you to talk about with your clients, those inquiries in the coming years. >> John: Absolutely, absolutely. >> No shortage of changes there. John Morency, thanks very much for joining us. >> My pleasure, Paul. >> We're here in ZertoCON 2018 in Boston, I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the CUBE. Covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is the CUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018. Final day of ZertoCON here in Boston at the Hynes Convention Center and on the stage this morning with John Morency from Gartner was my next guest Jayme Williams, Senior Systems Engineer at TenCate talking about your experience with Zerto. Jamie, welcome, thanks for joining us. >> Jamie: Thank you very much. >> I'm sure a lot of people haven't heard of TenCate although it's a very big company, tell us what the company does. >> We are a multi-national company, we are developers, processes that produce, one business entity, protected fabrics, we also are in artificial turf, also advanced composites, things like the Mars Lander, so TenCate actually has material on the planet Mars right now. So, we're a multi-national, diverse company, based using in textiles and textile processes. >> Very cool and you're also a multi cloud company from an IT perspective. One of the things you talked about this morning was moving to a current federation of seven different cloud providers I think you said you use. What is the strategy and the thinking behind that. >> So, we're shifting our model right now, we call it disentanglement, we're going from regional setups to where we were the AMERS the EMEA and APAC, rather than regional, we are shifting each business entity to a global, so each one of those global business units, we had to disentangle, move from our current infrastructure to a new infrastructure. We guide them, we try and help them and tell them what would be best suited to them, but some of them went with private cloud, some of them are using public clouds and we have to disperse that infrastructure amongst whatever they so chose and help them along their journey to become a stand-alone business entity across the globe. So, that could be a AWS, it could be Azure, all of them are going to Office 365, but leveraging the technology to best serve the purposes of that specific business unit globally rather than regionally. >> And then it's your job at the back end to federate all these services that many companies are just now beginning to think about adding a second cloud to their portfolio. What advice would you give a company that's looking at moving to multi-cloud? >> Very strong, knowledgeable partners that you can actually become friends with and have them on speed-dial on your hip. Conferences like this is where you meet those people, so that if you come to something here you're going to to run into somebody who has the same struggle as you or you can help someone who's going to to have the same struggle as you along the pathway. So, I think we should disseminate the information amongst ourselves in IT to help each other. It's a community of people, we've got to keep ourselves motivated and vital and relevant and the only way to do that is by building up these partnerships, how did you do it, how did I do it, share that information so we don't all have to struggle through the same exact issues as we go along the journey or the path whatever the business dictates. >> A lot of talk at the conference about resilience. What is resilience mean to TenCate? >> So, it's gone from we can do without this data for 24 hours, that's acceptable, to 12 hours, that's acceptable, now it's an always-on world, it's more and more millennial spun into the workplace too, it's a given that I can do work from anywhere, anytime, anyplace, so you've got to be resilient in your infrastructure, in your processes to make those things available to them, so they're basically our customers as an IT organization saying, "Here's the services we're offering to you, whether it's Office 365, or an on prem business process, we've still got to guarantee that workers and people and colleagues can get to these services, so resilience is always having that service on whatever SLA that has to be implemented in order to meet those things and make them available to the workplace, the business flows, making money, we're profitable and we're on the goods with the P&L. >> Now, obviously Zerto has been important to your IT strategy, talk about your use of Zerto and what value it's delivered to your organization. >> So, we were an early adopter of Zerto, we weren't the first by any means, but we were an early adopter. When we started our cloud strategy we had a meeting, globally, TIO says we are going to the cloud, to the cloud and beyond. I called Zerto, who was implemented just for the Americas at that time and said, "What's the cloud? What do you recommend for the cloud?" And they actually came at that point in time and said, "We have some partners we're working with, one of them happens to be the data center that you're in." So, they got me linked up, that was my first step into talking about discovering what is the cloud using Zerto as the reference, those partners again, those friendships that say utilize these guys. That's how we started initial getting our feet wet with the cloud, it was private, it was more controlled, it also gave us a lot of comfort. We could go to the guys there and say, "How do you do this, what happens if", all of the what if scenarios that really are easy and simple to answer and it was put in front of us by Zerto and as their product evolved, they started supporting replication into Azure, let's go to Azure then, so we started replicating to Azure, we went to Office 365, we of course still used those third party private and Zerto partners and used resources in their data centers. I think I've tried about every offering that Zerto has come out with whether it be off-site backup, 30-day journaling, if not just to see what it is, when I find out that it works, I just keep it, why it's a value-add any time they come out with something. You key-turn it, you get additional benefits, they evolve, they're agile as a company, so they can provide and support us to be agile and pass that on down the line. >> Tell me about the journaling feature that you mentioned, how do you put that to use? >> So, we had all of our VPGs setup for 30-days, so I've got enough storage on-prem to give up to do 30-day journaling like Crypto-locker, unfortunately we were a recipient Crypto-locker, so with the journaling feature, >> Paul: Crypto-locker being a prominent form of ransomware, >> Absolutely. Unfortunately, it's not one I want to raise my hand to having been witness to, but with Zerto, going back into the journal, I recovered, I think it was first hit, 10 seconds before, bring the environment back up, everybody access your files, are you good to go, we're good to go, the end user doesn't know the technology, it's not their problem, but the feeling of morale, the team, the esprit de corps from being able to say, "We've just gotten hit by Crypto, let's fell back to ten seconds before it happened and let's go back to work. >> Paul: Phenomenal. How big was the attack? >> Jayme: So, it took out a file server, so we have a DFS file server infrastructure and it had rapidly worked its way all the way down through the DFS infrastructure, so we had to recover about a terabyte file server, scale it back, bring it back up. I won't say no one was the wiser, but when you say, "Let me reboot the server, try it now." It's back up, we're not calling for tapes, we're getting it back up instantly. >> Ransomware, of course, is the fastest growing malware of 2017, what have you done internally since then to prevent a recurrence of the attack? >> One thing that we absolutely did is go back and review who has access to what, so where did it come in at, where was the entry point, what can we do to remediate these things, do specific production machines need access to talk, needed but not now, we remediate those type things, you extend the use of a product like Zerto to say, okay, we thought this was relevant, with this new information, what happened to us as the scope widened, what else do we need to conclude that we can fall back on for journaling? And there's also a credibility hit and a morale hit to the team. So there's some PR that has to be done to the corporation, to the company, to say we are doing something, you know, we took a valid hit, but we are going to keep your confidence and this is how we are going to do it, we're going to use and leverage a product and the knowledge we gained and fix it. When you show what you are doing and keep their confidence in you from the corporation. So, it's not always just technical, there's PR, confidence that you can do your job, from the businesses, there's a lot of things behind ransomware than simply decrypting. >> I do understand that you spent eight years in the Marine Corps. >> Yes, sir. >> How did this prepare you for a job in IT. >> Oh, man, always charge towards the battle. (both laughing) I don't like to, to my detriment perhaps, I don't like the way, so if something new comes out, chances are, I'm going to try it and ask forgiveness rather than permission. But, I just like to get stuff done and if I can get it done and then move onto something else and find new and interesting things to do, I'm going to play with that, if that solves the business purpose, so be it, let's implement it, let's move to the next one. So, I like change, that's why I like IT. The job is never boring because as we speak right here it's changing, someone smart is thinking of something Germanic, something that's going to change and disrupt, next week I get to go home and discover that myself, play with it and implement it possibly. So, I don't want to be sitting there dormant, this is the job for me. >> Great attitude. Jayme Williams, thank you so much for joining us. >> Yes, sir, thank you very much. >> Jayme Williams from TenCate. We'll be back from ZertoCON 2018. I'm Paul Gillin. This is the CUBE.

>> Narrator: Live from Boston Massachusetts it's theCUBE covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here in Boston for ZertoCON and with me is Rob Strechay. He's the Senior Vice President of Product for Zerto and Rob, I understand here you have one of the big items of news is Zerto 7 is being announced. Tell us about what's new in Zerto 7. >> Yeah, so we're announcing Zerto 7, it'll be out in Q1 of 2019. We're real excited because really it's the first time that the IT Resiliance Platform that we've put out will also include in the convergence of backup, disaster recovery and cloud mobility all into one singular platform. We've been building upon this platform for years. People have come to know us for continuous data protection and our journal-based data protection. And now we're extending that over time to give people a better view and better resiliancy across near-term and the long-term. >> Alright now I think of back up as being kind of table stakes in the resiliance game, but the backup features are actually new for you in this release. Is that right? >> Absolutely. What we've done is enhance what we had. We had some backup features in there already. We already got used for recovering for things like ransom-ware used in our journal level file recovery where people can go back like a DVR, a few seconds before they got hit. Be able to pull the file, folder, or entire virtual machine back and pull that out like if you were using a backup. In fact, much quicker our customers tell us than Legacy Backup. But table stakes is having enhanced indexing and search capabilities across all of your different platforms. Having dedicated workflows that are integrated into the current recovery workflows. Things of that nature, that really are in Zerto 7 that would take us to the next level. >> Now backup is a fairly painful process for most IT Admins though, what is Zerto doing to make that simpler? >> Yeah, I think the great thing is we have over 6,000 customers already that utilize us and trust us for data protection on a daily basis. We're extending those workflows to say okay, I need a weekly, a monthly, a quarterly, or a daily even and I want to keep that for a certain amount of time. Right now they would see maybe one day to 30 days back in what we call our Journal. And now we're extending that so they see the points in time beyond that and helps to simplify those workflows for those customers. Because, really the complexity comes from I have a media server, I have single points of failure, I have to worry about did I get that backup or not. The journal technology we have actually alleviates that. Plus, we've been doing this at scale for many years with many thousands of customers and we know that that's been one of the pain points for our customers around backup too. We didn't take this lightly to go further into this market. We thought that, really, the market was ripe for convergence of these products. >> Alright, now go one layer deeper on journaling. I mean that's a technology that's been around for a long time, but really not so much in the backup space. What are you doing that's different with your approach to journaling? >> Yeah, so we actually brought this out back in 2011, so we've been doing it for about seven years now. And we took a different approach to disaster recovery. Allows for a lot more granular recovery in seconds. So you have recovery point objectives that are very near and then you get quicker recovery time objectives, as well. So, a lot of this journaling technology was how do you have the right order fidelity of all of these systems as an application? Now doing that and saying okay I want to take a point in time and I want to keep it as my gold copy for three months because I have a business or a corporate mandate that says this is the retention periods that I have. Really brings together what we've been doing in journaling for years as we went from being the first to put out a hypervisor-based replication and journaling system. Then we took it to what they call the DR as a surface market when we took customers to public cloud in 2014 and back from public cloud in 2016 and now we really have any-to-any technology across those different platforms all using that same underlying journaling technology. But it does it in different ways in clouds versus say VMware's hypervisor. >> Now how do you coordinate the complexity of that environment? You've got customers who have some backup on prims, some backup in the cloud that maybe have multiple clouds. How do you coordinate all that backup? >> Yeah, I think it's been really one of the things we've been working on for some amount of time already. So they're starting to see the fruits of our labor about how you have a distributed, scalable system that automatically does that. So, we're not just a replication engine or just a journaling system, we actually embed the orchestration in automation into the system. That way it's wrapped in. It's kind of like having an engine and having the steering wheel at the same time. Then we wrap a nav system, which is our analytics product, around that to give people guidance on how to utilize it. So, to your point, we try to make it easy. In fact one of our pillars is it better be simple, like real simple, otherwise we don't ship it. >> There are a lot of vendors in the various aspects backup, DR market, how is Zerto differentiating itself? >> Yeah, I think that we're not doing backup. We're doing a completely different way of taking this. Backup has been done typically either with agents or with snapshot technology. Maybe you go back four hours in time if you get hit with ransom-ware. Because we already have and can see that data, in the journal, seconds of granularity. So say somebody's loading a database on a Friday night and doing an ETL into the database, of a terabyte of data. We'll see that terabyte go in and all those changes happen. You could actually utilize the journal after you've actually done the load so you can take a pre and a post copy of that. So I have before I made the changes and after I made the changes which really helps customers in a unique way. >> You get into some very large file sizes, I would imagine, when you're doing that many copies of data How do you manage the volumes? >> Yeah, we have some technology inside the product that is space efficient, uses things such as compression and other types of technology. For doing the backup and in Zerto 7 for long-term retention or secondary storage we're partnering with people like HPE and their StoreOnce product set. We have other partners of ours like Exit Grid here and their NFS enabled secondary storage. Plus we'll use some of the typical S3, SMB, as well as cloud-based as targets because we think that they have some of that built-in hardware and built-in technology that really does a better job of doing the compaction. We're not trying to be a purpose built appliance for everybody, we look at being a software company and leveraging those really good secondary storage devices and clouds as the targets. >> One of the themes of the conference we heard John Morency of Gartner talking about this morning was resilience and really moving beyond backup and disaster recovery to business resilience. How well are your customers taking to that message? >> It's amazing, I think that when I go out and talk to our customer CIOs and VPs of Infrastructure or even just to Sys Admins, they're looking for resiliancy. They're looking for a single product that can bring together backup, disaster recovery and that cloud mobility. I think, you heard one of our customers up on stage with Morency, Jamie from Takata, that really has embraced that. They're actually, kind of, I would say pushing the cutting edge of seven different cloud providers and utilizing us as that platform. >> Paul: By design seven different cloud providers. >> Yeah, by design and part of that is if you look at GVPR and all the different regulations across the world they have to deal with, it's easier for them. But they know that they utilizes us as an IT Resilience platform that enables them to go those different places. >> You mentioned ransom-ware earlier, have you seen the growth of ransom-ware continue or is that now slowing down finally being displaced by crypto-mining and some other. >> I think that it's always there. I think that it flares up from time to time. And it's not a, as Ziv, our CEO and Founder, said yesterday, it's not if you're going to get hit by ransom-ware, it's when. And I think that being resilient and having a resiliency in depth type of approach really is important for that as well. >> So, in the time that we've got left talk about the future. What's the road map for Zerto going forward the next couple of years? >> Yeah, so this year we're laying out the IT Resilience platform, building it out and continuing to build upon what we've done as we see and where we see a lot of our customers going. Containers are a big thing and we see that infusion of containers in our customer base is growing rapidly. So we'll be looking at some new approaches to that. And we think we're uniquely positioned based on our underlying technology to take advantage of that. Cloud-born apps are a big one, as well. But because we're already in the cloud working with Azure as one of our key partners and Amazon, as well, we get to see how these all come together. And we have a unique seat at the table for going forward. >> Rob, I can't let you go without asking you to stand up please and show the camera the official Zerto colors. If anyone is walking the walk here it's Rob Strechay wearing pants of the official Zerto color. Where do you find pants of that color? >> You can find them, the great thing is being in Massachusetts there's a lot of different companies that make Nantucket Red, which is not really Nantucket Red, it's more like a Fire Engine Red, but these in particular I had made for me for this conference this week, so. >> I figure you can find anything in the Boston area. >> Absolutely. >> Rob Strechay, thank you very much for joining us. >> Rob: Much appreciate it, thanks for having me on. >> I'm Paul Gillin, this is theCUBE. (tech music)