(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome to this CUBE Conversation that's part of the AWS startup showcase Season Two, Episode Four. I'm your host Lisa Martin. Chase Doelling joins me, the principles strategist at JumpCloud. Chase, welcome to theCUBE. It's great to have you. >> Chase: Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Lisa. I really appreciate the opportunity to come and hang out. >> Let's talk about JumpCloud. First of all, love the name. This is an open directory platform. Talk to the audience about what the platform is, obviously, the evolution of the domain controller. But give us that backstory? >> Yeah, absolutely. And so, company was started, and I think, from serial entrepreneurs, and after kind of last exit, taking a look around and saying, "Why is this piece of hardware still the dominant force when you're thinking about identities, especially when the world is moving to cloud, and all the different pieces that have been around it?" And so, over the years, we've evolved JumpCloud into an open directory platform. And what that is, is we're managing your identities, the devices that are associated to that, all the access points that employees need just to get their job done. And the best part is, is we're able to do that no matter where they are within the world. >> It seems like kind of a reinvention of how modern IT teams are getting worked done, especially in these days of remote work. Talk to me a little bit about the last couple of years particularly as remote work exploded, and here we are still probably, permanently, in that situation? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's probably going to be one of those situations where we stick with it for quite a while. We had a very abrupt force in making sure that essentially every IT and security team could grapple with the fact of their users are no longer coming into the office. You know, how do we VPN into all of our different resources? Those are very common and unfortunate pain points that we've had over the last couple years. And so, now, people have starting to kind of get into the motion of it, working from home, having background and setups and other pieces. But one of the main areas of concern, especially as you're thinking about that, is how does it relate to my security infrastructure, or kind of my approach to my organization. And making sure that too, on the tail end, that a user's access and making sure that they can get into everything that they need to do in order to get work done, is still happening? And so, what we've done, is we've really taken, evolving and really kind of ripping apart this notion of what a directory was. 'Cause originally, it was just like, great, almost like a phone directory. It's where people lived they're going into all those different pieces. But it wasn't set up for the modern world, and kind of how we're approaching it, and how organizations now are started with a credit card and have all of their infrastructure. And essentially, all of their IP, is now hosted somewhere else. And so, we wanted to take a different approach where we're thinking about, not only managing that identity, but taking an open approach. So, matter where the identity's coming from, we can integrate that into the platform but then we're also managing and securing those devices, which is often the most important piece that we have sitting right in front of us in order to get into that. But then, also that final question, of when you're accessing networks applications, can you create the conditions for trust, right? And so, if you're looking at zero trust, or kind of going after different levels of compliance, ISO, SOC2, whatever that might be, making sure that you have all that put in place no matter where your employees are. So, in that way, as we kind of moved into this remote, now hybrid world, it wasn't the office as the gating point anymore, right? So, key cards, as much as we love 'em, final part, whereas the new perimeter, the kind of the new barrier for organizations especially how they're thinking about security, is the people's identities behind that. And so, that's the approach that we really wanted to take as we continue to evolve and really open up what a directory platform can do. >> Yeah. Zero trust security, remote work. Two things that have exploded in the last couple of years. But as employees, we expected to be able to still have the access that we needed to apps, to the network, to WiFi, et cetera. And, of course, on the security side, we saw massive changes in the threat landscape that really, obviously, security elevates to a board level conversation. So, I imagine zero trust security, remote work, probably compliance, you mentioned SOC2, are some of the the key use cases that you're helping organizations with? >> Those are a lot of the drivers. And what we do, is we're able to combine a lot of different aspects that you need for each one of those. And so, now you're thinking about essentially, the use case of someone joins an organization, they need access to all these different things. But behind the scenes, it's a combination of identity access management, device management, applications, networks, everything else, and creating those conditions for them to do their roles. But the other piece of that, is you also don't want to be overly cumbersome. I think a lot of us think about security as like great biometrics, so I'm going to add in these keys, I'm going to do everything else to kind of get into these secured resources. But the reality of it now, is those secure resources might be AWS infrastructure. It might be other Salesforce reporting tools. It might be other pieces, or kind of IP within the organization. And those are now your crown jewel. And so, if you're not thinking about the identities behind them and the security that you have in order to facilitate that transaction, it becomes a board level conversation very quickly. But you want to do it in a way that people can move forward with their lives, and they're not spending a ton of time battling the systems and procedures you put in place to protect it, but that it's working together seamlessly. And so, that's where, kind of this notion for us of bringing all these different technologies into one platform. You're able to consolidate a lot of those and remove a lot of the friction while maintaining the visibility, and answering the question, of who has access to what? And when did they do that? Those are the most critical pieces that IT and security teams are asking themselves when something happens. And hopefully, on the preventative side and not so much on the redacted side. >> Have you seen the escalation up the C-Suite change of the board in terms of really focusing on how do we do identity management? How do we do single sign on? How do we do device management and network access? Is that all the way up to the C-Suite board level as well? >> It certainly can be. And we've seen it in a lot of different conversations, because now you are thinking about all different portions of the organization. And then, two, as we're thinking about times we're currently in, there's also a cost associated to that. And so, when you start to consolidate all of those technologies into one area, now it becomes much more of total cost optimization types of story while you're still maintaining a lot of the security and basic blocking and tackling that you need for most organizations. So, everything you just mentioned, those are now table stakes for a lot of small, medium, startups to be at the table. So, how do you have access to enterprise level, essentially technology, without the cost that's associated to it. And that's a lot of the trade offs that organizations are facing and having those types of conversations as it relates to business preparedness and how we're making sure that we are putting our best foot forward, and we're able to be resilient in no matter what type, of either economic or security threat that the organization might be looking at. >> So, let's talk about the go-to market, the strategy from a sales and marketing perspective. Where are the customer conversations happening? Are they at the IT level? Are they higher up the stack? >> It's really at, I'd say the IT level. And so, by that, I mean the builders, the implementers, everyone that's responsible for putting devices in people's hands, and making sure that they can do their job effectively. And so, those are their, I'd say the IT admins the world as well as the managed service providers who support those organizations, making sure that we can enable them to making sure that their organizations or their client organizations have all the tools that their disposable to make sure that they have the security or the policies, and the technology behind them to enable all those different practices. >> Let's unpack the benefits from an IT perspective? Obviously, they're getting one console that they can manage at all. One user identity for email, and devices, and apps, and things. You mentioned regardless of location, but this is also regardless of operating system, correct? >> That's correct. And so, part of taking an open approach, is also the devices that you're running on. And so, we take a cross OS approach. So, Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, whatever it might be, we can make sure that, that device is secure. And so, it does a couple different things. So, one, is the employees have device choice, right? So, I'm a Mac person coming in. If forced into a Windows, it'd be an interesting experience. But then, also too, from the back end, now you have essentially one platform to manage your entire fleet. And also give visibility and data behind what's happening behind those. And then, from the end user perspective as well, everything's tied together. And so, instead of having, what we'll call user ID schizophrenia, it might be one employee, but hundreds of different identities and logins just to get their work done. We can now centralize that into one person, making sure you have one password to get into your advice, get into the network, to get into your single sign on. We also have push MFA associated with that. So, you can actually create the conditions for your most secured access, or you understand, say, "Hey, I'm actually in the office. I'm going to be a hybrid employee. Maybe I can actually relax some of those security concerns I might have for people outside of the network." And all we do, is making sure that we give all that optionality to our IT admins, manage service providers of the world to enable that type of work for their employees to happen. >> So, they have the ability to toggle that, is critically important in this day and age of the hybrid work model, that's probably here to stay? >> It is, yeah. And it's something that organizations change, right? Our own organizations, they grow, they change different. New threats might emerge, or same old existing threats continue to come back. And we need to just have better processes and automations put within that. And it's when you start to consolidate all of those technologies, not only are you thinking about the visibility behind that, but then you're automating a lot of those different pieces that are already tightly coupled together. And that actually is truly powerful for a lot of the IT admins of the world, because that's where they spend a lot of time, and they're able to spend more time helping users tackling big projects instead of run rate security, and blocking, and tackling. That should be enabled from the organization from the get go. >> You mentioned automation. And I think that there's got to be a TCO reduction aspect here with respect to security and IT practices. Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, absolutely. Let's think about the opposite of that. Let's say we have a laundry list of technology that we need to go out and source. One is, great, where the identity is, so we have an identity provider. Now, we need to make sure that we have application access that might look like single sign on. Now, we need to make sure, you are who you are no matter where you are in the world. Well, now we need multifactor authentication and that might involve either a push button, or biometrics. And then, well, great the device's in front of us, that's a huge component, making sure that I can understand, not only who's on the device, but that the device is secure, that there's certificates there, that there's policies that ensure the proper use of that wherever it might be. Especially, if I'm an employee, either, it used to be on the the jet center going between flying anywhere you need. Now, it's kind of cross country, cross domain, all those different areas. And when you start to have that, it really unlocks, essentially IT sprawl. You have a lot of different pieces, a lot of different contracts, trying to figure out one technology works, but the other might not. And you're now you're creating workarounds for all these different pieces. So, the opposite of that, is essentially, let's take all those technologies and consolidate that into one platform. So, not only is it cheaper essentially, looking after that and understanding all the different technologies, but now it's all the other soft costs around it that many people don't think about. It's all the other automations. It's all the workarounds that you didn't have to do in the first place. It's all the other pieces that you'd spend a lot of time trying to wire it together. Into the hopes of that, it creates some security model. But then again, you lose a lot of the visibility. So, you might have an incident happen over here, or a trigger, or alert, but it's not tied to the rest of the stack. And so, now you're spending a lot of time, especially, either trying to understand. And worse timing, is if you have an incident and you're trying to understand what's happening? Unraveling all of that as it happens, becomes impossible, especially if it's not consolidated with one platform. So, there's not only the hard cost aspect of bringing all that together, but also the soft costs of thinking about how your business can perform, or at least optimize for a lot of those different standard processes, including onboarding, offboarding, and everything else in between. >> Yeah. On the soft cost side, I can imagine. I can see huge benefits for HR onboarding, offboarding. I can see benefits for the employee experience period, which directly relates to the customer experience. So, in terms of the business impact that JumpCloud can make, it seems to be pretty horizontal across any type of organization? >> It is, and especially as you mentioned HR. Because when you think about, where does the origin of someone's identity start? Well, typically, it starts with a resume and that might be in applicant tracking software. Now, we're going to get hired, so we're going to move into HR, because, well, everyone likes payroll, and we need that in our lives, right? But now you get into the second phase, of great, now I've joined the organization. Now, I need access to all of these different pieces. But when you look at it, essentially horizontally, from HR, all the way into the employee experience, and their whole life cycle within the organization, now you're touching multiple different teams And that's one of the other, I'd say benefits of that, is now you're actually bringing in HR, and IT, and security, and everyone else that might be related within these kind of larger use cases of making work happen all coming under. And when they're tightly integrated, it's also a lot more secure, right? So, you're not passing notes along. You're not having a checklist of other stuff, especially when it relates to something as important as someone's identity, which is more often than not, the most common attack vector for people to go after. Because they know it's the keys to the kingdom. There's going to be a lot of different attempts, maybe malware and other pieces, but a lot of it comes back into, can I impersonate, or become the person that I want within the organization, because it's the identity allows you to access all those different pieces. And so, if it's coming from a disjointed process or something that's not as tightly as it could be, that's where it really opens up a lot of different vectors that organizations don't think about. >> Right, and those vectors are only growing and multiplying as we know, and here to stay. When you're in customer conversations what do you describe as maybe the top three differentiators of JumpCloud compared to the competition? >> Well, I think a lot of it is we take an open approach. And so, by that, I mean, it's one we're not locking into, I'd say different vendors or other areas. We're really looking into making sure that we can work within your environment as it stands today, or where you want to migrate in the future. And so, this could be a combination of on-prem resources, cloud resources, or nothing if you're starting a company from today. And the second, is again, coming back into how we're looking at devices. So, we take a cross OS approach that way, no matter what you're operating on, it all comes back from the same dashboard. But then, finally, we leverage a ton of different protocols to make sure it works with everything within your current technology stack, as well as it continues to elevate and evolve over time. So, it could be LD app and Radius, and Sam, and skim, and open ID Connect, and open APIs. And whatever that might be, we are able to tie in all those different pieces. So, now, all of a sudden, it's not just one platform, but you have your whole business tied into as that gives you some flexibility too, to evolve. Because even during the pandemic and the shift for remote, there's a lot of technology choices that shifted. A lot of people are like, "Okay, now's the time to go to the cloud." There might be other events that organizations change. There's other things that might happen. So, creating that flexibility for organizations to move and make those calls, is essentially how we're differentiating ourselves. And we're not locking you into this, walled garden of technology that's just our own. We really want to make sure that we can operate, and be that glue, so that way, no matter what you're trying to do and making sure that your work is being done, we can help facilitate that. >> Nice. No matter what happens. Because boy, at this day, anything's possible. One more question for you about your AWS partnership. Talk to me a little bit about that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we are preferred ADP identity provider and SSO provider for AWS. And so, now rebranded under their identity center. But it's crucial for a lot of our organizations and joint customers because again, when we think about a lot of organization IP and how they operate as a business, is tied into AWS. And so, really understanding, who has the right level of access? Who should be in there or not? And when too, you should challenge in making sure that actually there's something fishy there. Like let's make sure that they're not just traveling to Europe on a sabbatical, and it's really who they are instead of a threat actor. Those are some of the pieces when we're thinking about creating that authentication, but then also, the right authorization into those AWS resources. And so, that's actually something that we've been very close to, especially, I'd say that the origins of a company. Because a lot of startups, that's where they go. That's where they begin their journey. And so, we meet them where they are, and making sure that we're protecting not only everything else within their organization, but also what they're trying to get into, which is typically AWS >> Meeting customers where they are. It's all about that. Chase, thank you so much for joining me on the program talking about JumpCloud, it's open directory platform. The benefits, the capabilities, what's in it for IT, HR, security, et cetera. We appreciate all of your insights and time. Where do you want to point folks to go to learn more? >> Well, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having us. And I'd say, if you're curious about any and all these different technologies, the best part is everything I talked about is free up to 10 users, 10 devices. So, just go to jumpcloud.com. You can create an organization, and it's great for startups, people at home. Any size company that you're at, we can help support all of those different facets in bringing in those different types of technologies all into one roof. >> Awesome. Chase, thank you so much. This is awesome, go to jumpcloud.com. For Chase Doelling, I'm Lisa Martin. We want to thank you so much for giving us some of your time and watching this CUBE Conversation. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE live here in San Francisco for Google Next 2018. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. This is day one of wall to wall three days of live coach here on the floor. Our next guest is Karthik Lakshminarayanan who is the director of product manage for cloud identity, one of the core products at the edge authenticating users, people, and applications and devices. Karthik thanks for coming on. >> Yeah thank you, it's great to be here. >> So take a minute to explain because obviously cloud identity, we've seen identity systems in the enterprise, anyone who's dealt in the enterprise who have been buying I.T., who have been buying I.T. stuff. >> Yes. >> That's around identity and then something new comes out and I got to refresh that, I got to buy this, rip this out, replace this. So identity has been super important but it's been kind of stovepiped within applications. The cloud is horizontally scaled but the benefit of the cloud is that you kind of do it once, if you do it right, architecturally you can scale it. >> Absolutely. >> Take a minute to explain how cloud identity works, and how does it fit into the future of what people expect from the cloud. >> Yeah, absolutely, thank you. And cloud identity, our solution is to help organizations securely manage people, applications, and devices in the cloud. So it's exactly like what you're talking about. User identity is evolving because organizations are now coming in and saying "What is this mobile cloud thing? "How do I adjust?" Because users are getting increasingly trained on continual like behavior they just want to turn on, connect to their cloud services, use their mobile devices and be up and running. Organizations have been trained for years to think about the corporate network as their security parameter, so how does that happen in the cloud when the data is no longer on premises? So that's what we do with cloud identity where we look at signals from your users, from your devices, and other things that we're trying to do and give you a different way of accessing the cloud. >> For the folks watching who might have missed the keynote it's going to be on demand, go to YouTube, but I'm sure it's on the Google Cloud channel. Now one of the things Diane Green said, and then also we saw in the demos, we were talking before we came on camera was, you showed a demo of basically cloud and on-prem solution, looked just like one dashboard just the note and the network, and everything's kind of clean. Diane Green then mentioned that when she came to Google Cloud 20 years ago, was to just share what was already built over 25 years or 20 years to the masses. So okay, that's cool. But the question I want to ask you is, people don't want to be like Google or buy Google stuff to implement it in their non Google environment. They want to use the Google services. So they want the benefits of what you guys have experienced, so this is kind of a cultural nuance within Google Cloud where it's like you don't have to tell them be like Google, just use the services. Identity is super important. You have all this institutional knowledge, and low latency signals, from whether it's Android, Chrome, search, user experience. How are you guys putting that into.. Does that help your product? Is that a benefit of the cusp? Or is that more of a future thing? Because when you're at a service I can almost see identity as a service scaling to a point where all these things are kind of taken care of. What's your vision? >> Yeah, absolutely. A couple things. One is something called BeyondCorp. I think a lot of folks are familiar with, it stands for beyond the corporate network. And I want to touch on a couple things. One, is that today we make the access decisions based on who you are as a user, the state of your device, and then context. And context is really king now in a cloud based world. Where we look at signals, signals around the data that we can get even from our consumer services, but carefully curated and making sure we meet all of the compliance policies. Where we can now look at these signals and we do what we call context server access. So the idea that, what are you trying to access? Where are you accessing from? And who are you as a user and what kind of device are you at? That's the perfect combination of what you just said and we call that context server access and that is absolutely central to how we offer cloud identity. >> That's the classic example I've seen that we are Gmail customers, with Gsuite So when I log in from Paris, "Hey wait a minute, you're not in Paris." So you guys, is this an example of that? >> Yeah, it's funny, I feel like you're part of our team because we call this the superman scenario. Because if you just logged in from say California, then a moment later we see an access request coming in from Paris, we know it's not just because you have the valid username or password, we know that's not right. That's just a trivial example. Like Google does a great job of crawling the web. So we don't just know what the good sides are, we know what the bad sides are. So you even try to access a bad site we can stop you. There's all kinds of things we do with this. >> So I wonder if I can ask you about enterprise I.T. John at our kick off this morning said Google's 10 or maybe even 15 years ahead. And as he was just saying, people can't go that fast to be like Google. So how do you.. I think of a caravan with the fastest truck in the military caravan, has to slow down so the whole caravan can keep up. How do you manage the fact that you're going so fast but enterprises move, we sometimes joke, they move at the speed of the CIO. What's your perspective on that and how do you deal with that challenge? >> No, absolutely. So I think our core philosophy and design philosophy is how we built the product is meeting customers from where they are that's key. So meeting customers where they are, so we recognize, take some of our advanced technology. And we recognize that organizations are still building a lot of applications on premises, so we took the power and made that available on premises. You just saw that today. Another example, we connect to systems of record. We know Microsoft Active directly is largely the identity record of choice in large organizations. So we connect very seamlessly with them, we sync with them, and we use a federated identity story so you don't have to move to all in Google Cloud, you connect Google Cloud, you augment your existing infrastructure and that's how we make it all work. So, really making sure that we are inclusive, and meeting customers where they are is how we've designed everything including cloud identity. >> And I follow up with, is architecturally, how do you future proof it? Now part of it is you have a lead on the rest of the world. You have visibility on things that others aren't going to see for years. But at the same time, you don't know, you can't predict the future, right? So how do you future proof your system architecturally? Maybe talk about that. >> Yeah, I think that a couple things for us, we are big on open systems, so we make sure that the cloud as we all know is built on standards. So as an example, the security keys that we talked about was largely invented at Google but we made sure we contributed that back into the standards community. That's an example. We are big on APIs, making sure all our APIs are out there and we support federated standards like Skim and those others things. So we make sure that an organization can use not just us, but whatever identity system of choice, and we interconnect to standards and APIs and I think that's the way forward. >> So I asked you since you do product management which is you're building products, I mean, I used to run a product group at a big company and products are built differently now, than they are with the cloud. So how has the role in building a product change? Product management, you got to have the right features, you got to have customers. We're living in a services world, where you have a service as the product or the platform is the product in a cloud centric world. How do you guys do that product and share some insights for the folks watching, customers get an insight into how you guys work because it's not your classic product management, or is it? How are you guys doing things differently because business models are being built as a service. Things are changing so fast that a new service like Istio can literally change someone's business overnight, leveraging some of these core services that you guys have. >> So let me share a couple things. I think some things are always going to be the same if we do our jobs right. Which is that customers, customer needs, and making sure the solutions we provide, not features, but solutions, meet customer needs. I think in that regard, whether you deliver it as a service, or as a on-prem, does not matter, that's a delivery model. But we want to make sure we take care of our customers. I think one of the challenges we find on the cloud side is the piece of which we are delivering features and a lot of times the I.T. person or the decision maker in an organization want to make sure they stay in the loop on this, they are getting ahead of planning. You don't want to change that vent out so rapidly that the users are confused, they're getting help desk calls and things like that. So we are have a very structured communications mechanism that we work with, we share roadmaps and timelines so it helps organizations really think about what's coming. I think the service delivery and service consumption is more of a partnership now, even though on the consumer side you might think it's just as a service we push a change. I think its really a partnership. >> And it's faster too, I imagine. >> Absolutely faster. >> Your acceleration of service is faster. >> I think we can meet needs exactly, we can meet needs a lot faster. I wanted to call out that Google consciously takes into account the fact that we don't want our changes to be so fast and so disruptive, we want them to be well received so we really partner with our partners in the custom organizations. >> Its interesting Dave mentioned the caravan example, I would say that enterprises move at a glacial pace. >> Any users feel that way. >> But they're buying I.T. in the past, now they're essentially leveraging scaled services that are prebuilt so they can get things going faster. This is the new normal where they'll be buying services not I.T. products. >> Correct. >> You mentioned solutions, solutions and services. Is that kind of what you're getting at? >> Yeah, I think absolutely. If you think about what's happened as mentioned earlier today, I.T. was a cost center, now they're moving into like, hey how do we get ahead and build a competitive advantage? So I think absolutely, you said it well so plus one. >> Karthik you talked about some of the standards that built up the internet, and now you're seeing with blockchain a spate of new protocols being developed, all this innovation, a lot of talk about K.Y.C. know your customer, and antimoney laundering, AML. Perspectives on what's happening in that blockchain world. Obviously it's relevant to identity, what are you thoughts on what's happening there? >> Yeah, a couple things. One is that we think blockchain is very interesting, it's something that we continue to look at. I personally look at blockchain as amazing technology but we go back to what are the use cases and needs that we need to solve. So let me throw something out there, it's not very well thought out, it's just an idea. But we think about one of the things we've tossed around is bring your own identity. There's a time when identity was think about your cell phone number, if you remember was once tied to your provider, you change your provider, you had to get a new number. And now you have portability you don't think about it. So if you think about you as a user you are who you are, and then there is an identity or a profile that exists on a personal side. There's identity that happens so there is protection in this context that is accessed things like that that blockchain can now enable 'cause you now take your identity and you go with you whether you are in the consumer context, you are in the work context, or even switching from one job to another or one role to another within the organization. So I think blockchain could be technology that is very foundational and fundamental to decentralize notions where I as an organization manage your policies and lots of other things but who you are as a person stays with you. >> The old model was bring your device to work. >> Yes. >> Your base was bring your identity to the world under one immutable own your own data, trustful way. Enabling, identity as a service on a whole 'nother level. >> Very different level. I think were not dead today because right now I think organizations are shifting mainly from wrap their arms around the user and the identity and they're super paranoid about moving to the cloud. I think the first step is making them fundamentally comfortable with everything they need. But once we build I think your trust point is key once you have that governance and that secure platform we can start shifting towards bring your own identity and how can that all coexist. >> And why do you think the consternation about moving to the cloud. Is it because it's still unknown? It's still somewhat new? Because I mean by all accounts when you talk to the experts, they'll admit the cloud is more secure than what I can do on prem. Why the consternation? >> Absolutely, I think the key part is the simplicity that comes and I think it's a new model that has not yet been mastered, so cloud is secure, yes, but when my users start doing things that I don't really want them to do, what we call is shadow I.T., they're very worried about it. And then on the flip side they've been trained for years, decades on this whole old model of corporate network and now were saying the cloud is open and the internet is your new network. So that I think scares a lot of people but customers when they come to Google and they see our BeyondCorp story and our cloud identity story, then they know that they can achieve both. Higher access for employees and advanced security for organizations. >> I think the Beyond Corporate is very relevant. We've been tracking that we find that super fascinating. On the shadow I.T., we've been reporting on shadow I.T., it's our ninth year today. But shadow I.T. though, is just an early adopter form of DevOps, so I think shadow I.T. has kind of regulated itself to as a stepping stone for cloud. SAP used to do shadow I.T. as presales and then customers moved everything to the cloud so I think shadow I.T. is much more of a kind of kindergarten or first step to DevOps. >> I think DevOps is where a lot of organizations are moving. I think depending on where the organization is going back they like the I.T. admin led model, they're experimenting with DevOps, there's a lot of experimentation going on. I think what I like about shadow I.T. and not from a security risk perspective but it's signal that clear intent from the user to the organization saying I want access to these services fast and make it simple. >> It's like an R and D sand box the way I look at it. Final question for you I know you got to go. Thanks for coming on, I appreciate your time. How are you guys going to roll out this identity as a service, who's your competition, how do you guys compare, what's the story, what's the vision? Share some of the competitive strengths and weakness. What's going on? >> Yeah, I think three things for us. It's already available today, you can go to cloud.google.com/identity. Sign up for a free trial and we give you everything from identity as a service to device management and all of that. The things that we focus on is like smart, secure, and simple. The idea that we can use ML based security to automatically protect, no longer can an I.T. admin go in and set reactive policies. We just have to use data and set proactive policies and protect them. To your points earlier about end points and other data coming into that's the smart piece. We also have a unified single pane of glass, unified administration, one admin controlled to manage everything because people are complaining about the complexity of these solutions that they got to put together. So you get cloud identity you get one thing everything from not just the administration but also the licensing. One price and you're done. You never have to worry about it. And the last but not the least, it has to be secure. The things we talked about from security keys, I've never changed my password for the two years I've been at Google. I use security keys and never typed an RSA key or anything like that. It's fascinating how simple we can make it so that's really what we like smart, secure, and simple. >> Awesome, well congratulations. Looking forward to see how this scales out certainly foundationally identity is super important. Identity is one of the bedrock of cloud. It's part of that system that scales theCUBE. Bringing you all the best content scaling here at Moscone with all the great content from Google Next. I'm John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Stay with us from day one coverage of three days of live coverage here in San Francisco. We'll be right back.