>> We're back at the Big Apple, theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. Sahir Azam is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of MongoDB, and Guillermo Rauch who's the CEO of Vercel. Hot off the keynotes from this morning guys, good job. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us here. Thanks for having us. Guillermo when it comes to modern web development, you know the back-end, the cloud guys got to it kind of sewn up, >> you know- >> Guillermo: Forget about it. >> But all the action's in the front end, and that's where you are. Explain Vercel. >> Yeah so Vercel is the company that pioneers front-end development as serverless infrastructure. So we built Next.js which is the most popular React framework in the world. This is what front-end engineers choose to build innovative UI's, beautiful websites. Companies like Dior and GitHub and TikTok and Twitch, which we mentioned in the keynote, are powering their entire dot-coms or all of their new parts of their dot-coms with Next.js. And Vercel is the serverless platform where you can deploy frameworks like in Next.js and others like Svelte and Vue to create really fast experiences on the web. >> So I hear, so serverless, I hear that's the hot trend. You guys made some announcements today. I mean when you look at the, we have spending data with our friends at ETR right down the street. I mean it's just off the charts, whether it's Amazon, Google, Azure Functions, I mean it's just exploding. >> Sahir: Yeah, it's I think in many ways, it's a natural trend. You know, we talk a lot about, whether it be today's keynote or another industry talks you see around our industry that developers are constantly looking for ways to focus on innovation and the business logic that defines their application and as opposed to managing the plumbing, and management of infrastructure. And we've seen this happen over and over again across every layer of the stack. And so for us, you know MongoDB, we have a bit of, you know sort of a lens of a broad spectrum of the market. We certainly have you know, large enterprises that are modernizing existing kind of core systems, then we have developers all over the world who are building the next big best thing. And that's what led us to partner with Vercel is just the bleeding edge of developers building in a new way, in a much more efficient way. And we wanted to make sure we provide a data platform that fits naturally in the way they want to work. >> So explain to our audience the trade-offs of serverless, and I want to get into sort of how you've resolved that. And then I want to hear from Guillermo, what that means for developers. >> Sahir: Yeah in our case, we don't view it as an either or, there are certain workloads and definitely certain companies that will gravitate towards a more traditional database infrastructure where they're choosing the configuration of their cluster. They want full control over it. And that provides, you know, certain benefits around cost predictability or isolation or perceived benefits at least of those things. And customers will gravitate towards that. Now on the flip side, if you're building a new application or you want the ability to scale seamlessly and not have to worry about any of the plumbing, serverless is clearly the easier model. So over the long term, we certainly expect to see as a mix of things, more and more serverless workloads being built on our platform and just generally in the industry, which is why we leaned in so heavily on investing in Atlas serverless. But the flexibility to not be forced into a particular model, but to get the same database experience across your application and even switch between them is an important characteristic for us as we build going forward. >> And you stressed the cost efficiency, and not having to worry about, you know, starting cold. You've architected around that, and what does that mean for a developer? >> Guillermo: For a developer it means that you kind of get the best of both worlds, right? Like you get the best possible performance. Front-end developers are extremely sensitive to this. That's why us pioneering this concept, serverless front-end, has put us in a very privileged position because we have to deliver that really quick time to first buy, that really quick paint. So any of the old trade-offs of serverless are not accepted by the market. You have to be extremely fast. You have to be instant to deliver that front-end content. So what we talked about today for example, with the Vercel Edge network, we're removing all of the cost of that like first hit. That cold start doesn't really exist. And now we're seeing it all across the board, going into the back-end where Mongo has also gotten rid of it. >> Dave: How do you guys collaborate? What's the focus of integration specifically from, you know, an engineering resource standpoint? >> Yeah the main idea is, idea to global app in seconds, right? You have your idea. We give you the framework. We don't give you infrastructure primitives. We give you all the necessary tools to start your application. In practice this means you host it in a Git repo. You import it onto Vercel. You install the Mongo integration. Now your front-end and your data back-end are connected. And then your application just goes global in seconds. >> So, okay. So you've abstracted away the complexity of those primitives, is that correct? >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> Do do developers ever say, "That's awesome but I'd like to get to them every now and then." Or do you not allow that? >> Definitely. We expose all the underlying APIs, and the key thing we hear is that, especially with the push for usage-based billing models, observability is of the essence. So at any time you have to be able to query, in real time, every data point that the platform is observing. We give you performance analytics in real time to see how your front-end is performing. We give you statistics about how often you're querying your back-end and so on, and your cache hit ratios. So what I talked about today in the keynote is, it's not just about throwing more compute at the problem, but the ability to use the edge to your advantage to memoize computation and reuse it across different visits. >> When we think of mission critical historically, you know, you think about going to the ATM, right? I mean a financial transaction. But Mongo is positioning for mission critical applications across a variety of industries. Do we need to rethink what mission critical means? >> I think it's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak. If you're a new business starting up, your software and your application is your entire business. So if you have a cold start latency or God forbid something actually goes down, you don't have a business. So it's just as mission critical to that founder of a new business and new technology as it is, you know, an established enterprise that's running sort of a more, you know, day-to-day application that we may all interact with. So we treat all of those scenarios with equal fervor and importance right? And many times, it's a lot of those new experiences that the become the day-to-day experiences for us globally, and are super important. And we power all of those, whether it be an established enterprise all the way to the next big startup. >> I often talk about COVID as the forced march to digital. >> Sahir: Mm-Hmm. >> Which was obviously a little bit rushed, but if you weren't in digital business, you were out of business. And so now you're seeing people step back and say, "All right, let's be more thoughtful about our digital transformation. We've got some time, we've obviously learned some things made some mistakes." It's all about the customer experience though. And that becomes mission critical right? What are you seeing Guillermo, in terms of the patterns in digital transformation now that we're sort of exiting the isolation economy? >> One thing that comes to mind is, we're seeing that it's not always predictable how fast you're going to grow in this digital economy. So we have customers in the ecommerce space, they do a drop and they're piggybacking on serverless to give them that ability to instantly scale. And they couldn't even prepare for some of these events. We see that a lot with the Web3 space and NFT drops, where they're building in such a way that they're not sensitive to this massive fluctuations in traffic. They're taking it for granted. We've put in so much work together behind the scenes to support it. But the digital native creator just, "Oh things are scaling from one second to the next like I'm hitting like 20,000 requests per second, no problem Vercel is handling it." But the amount of infrastructural work that's gone behind the scenes in support has been incredible. >> We see that in gaming all the time, you know it's really hard for a gaming company to necessarily predict where in the globe a game's going to be particularly hot. Games get super popular super fast if they're successful, it's really hard to predict. It's another vertical that's got a similar dynamic. >> So gaming, crypto, so you're saying that you're able to assist your customers in architecting so that the website doesn't crash. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> But at the same time, if the the business dynamic changes, they can dial down. >> Yeah. >> Right and in many ways, slow is the new down, right? And if somebody has a slow experience they're going to leave your site just as much as if it's- >> I'm out of here- >> You were down. So you know, it's really maintaining that really fast performance, that amazing customer experience. Because this is all measured, it's scientific. Like anytime there's friction in the process, you're going to lose customers. >> So obviously people are excited about your keynote, but what have they been saying? Any specific comments you can share, or questions that you got that were really interesting or? >> I'm already getting links to the apps that people are deploying. So the whole idea- >> Come on! >> All over the world. Yeah so it's already working I'm excited. >> So they were show they were showing off, "Look what I did" Really? >> Yeah on Twitter. >> That's amazing. >> I think from my standpoint, I got a question earlier, we were with a bunch of financial analysts and investors, and they said they've been talking to a lot of the customers in the halls. And just to see, you know, from the last time we were all in person, the number of our customers that are using multiple capabilities across this idea of a developer data platform, you know, certainly MongoDB's been a popular core database open source for a long time. But the new capabilities around search, analytics, mobile being adopted much more broadly to power these experiences is the most exciting thing from our side. >> So from 2019 to now, you're saying substantial uptick in adoption for these features? >> Yeah. And many of them are new. >> Time series as well, that's pretty new, so yeah. >> Yeah and you know, our philosophy of development at MongoDB is to get capabilities in the hands of customers early. Get that feedback to enrich and drive that product-market fit. And over the last three years especially, we've been transitioning from a single product kind of core, you know, non relational modern database to a data platform, a developer data platform that adds more and more capabilities to power these modern applications. And a lot of those were released during the pandemic. Certainly we talked about them in our virtual conferences and all the zoom meetings we had over the years. But to actually go talk to all these customers, this is the largest conference we've ever put on, and to get a sense of, wow all the amazing things they're doing with them, it's definitely a different feeling when we're all together. >> So that's interesting, when you have such a hot product, product-led growth which is what Mongo has been in, and you add these new features. They're coming from the developers who are saying, "Hey, we need this." >> Yip. >> Okay so you have a pretty high degree of confidence, but how do you know when you have product-market fit? I mean, is it adoption, usage, renewals? What's your metric? >> Yeah I think it's a mix of quantitative measures that you know, around conversion rates, the size of your funnel, the retention rate, NPS which obviously can be measured, but also just qualitative. You know when you're talking to a developer or a technology executive around what their needs are, and then you see how they actually apply it to solve a problem, it's that balance between the qualitative and the quantitative measurement of things. And you can just sort of, frankly you can feel it. You can see it in the numbers sure, but you can kind of feel that excitement, you can see that adoption and what it empowers people to do. And so to me, as a product leader, it's always a blend of those things. If you get too obsessed with purely the metrics, you can always over optimize something for the wrong reason. So you have to bring in that qualitative feedback to balance yourself out. >> Right. >> Guillermo, what's next? What do you not have that you want from Sahir and Mongo? >> So the natural next step for serverless computing is, is the Edge. So we have to auto-scale, we have to tolerate fares. We have to be avail. We have to be easy, but we have to be global. And right now we've been doing this by using a lot of techniques like caching and replication and things like this. But the future's about personalizing even more to each visitor depending on where they are. So if I'm in New York, I want to get the latest offers for New York on demand, just for me, and using AI to continue to personalize that experience. So giving the developer these tools in a way where it feels natural to build an application like this. It doesn't feel like, "Oh I'm going to do this year 10 if I make it, I'm going to do it since the very beginning." >> Dave: Okay interesting. So that says to me that I'm not going to make a round trip to the cloud necessarily for that experience. So I'm going to have some kind, Apple today, at the Worldwide Developer Conference announced the M2, right. I've been looking at the M1 Ultra, and I'm going wow look at that! And so- >> Sahir: You were talking about that new one backstage. >> I mean it's this amazing pace of Silicon development and they're focusing on the NPU and you look at what Tesla's doing. I mean it's just incredible. So you're going to have some new hardware architecture that emerges. Most of the AI that's done today is modeling in the cloud. You're going to have a real time inferencing at the Edge. So that's not going to do the round trip. There's going to be a data store there, I think it has to be. You're going to persist some of the data, maybe not all of it. So it's a whole new architecture- >> Sahir: Absolutely. >> That's developing. That sounds very disruptive. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> How do you think about that, and how does Mongo play there? Guillermo first. >> What I spent a lot of time thinking about is obviously the developer experience, giving the programmer a programming model that is natural, intuitive, and produces its great results. So if they have to think about data that's local because of regulatory reasons for example, how can we let the framework guide them to success? I'm just writing an application I deployed to the cloud and then everything else is figured out. >> Yeah or speed of light is another challenge. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> How can we overcome the speed of light is our next task for sure. >> Well you're working on that aren't you? You've got the best engineers on that one. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> We can solve a lot of problems, I'm not sure of that one. >> So Mongo plays in that scenario or? >> Yeah so I think, absolutely you know, we've been focused heavily on becoming the globally distributed cloud data layer. The back-end data layer that allows you to persist data to align with performance and move data where it needs to be globally or deal with data sovereignty, data nationalism that's starting to rise, but absolutely there is more data being pushed out to the Edge, to your point around processing or inference happening at the Edge. And there's going to be a globally distributed front-end layer as well, whether data and processing takes apart. And so we're focused on one, making sure the data connectivity and the layer is all connected into one unified architecture. We do that in combination with technologies that we have that do with mobility or edge distribution and synchronization of data with realm. And we do it with partnerships. We have edge partnerships with AWS and Verizon. We have partnerships with a lot of CVM players who are building out that Edge platform and making sure that MongoDB is either connected to it or just driving that synchronization back and forth. >> I call that unified experience super cloud, Robbie Belson from Verizon the cloud continuum, but that consistent experience for developers whether you're on Prim, whether you're in you know, Azure, Google, AWS, and ultimately the Edge. That's the big- >> That's where it's going. >> White space right now I'm hearing, Guillermo, right? >> I think it'll define the next generation of how software is built. And we're seeing this almost like a coalition course between some of the ideas that the Web3 developers are excited about, which is like decentralization almost to the extreme. But the Web2 also needs more decentralization, because we're seeing it with like, the data needs to be local to me, I need more privacy. I was looking at the latest encryption features in Mongo, like I think both Web2 need to incorporate more of the ideas of Web3 and vice versa to create the best possible consumer experience. Privacy matters more than ever before. Latency for conversion matters more than ever before. And regulations are changing. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> And you talked about Web3 earlier, talked about new protocols, a new distributed you know, decentralized system emerging, new hardware architectures. I really believe we really think that new economics are going to bleed back into the data center, and yeah every 15 years or so this industry gets disrupted. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> You know you ain't see nothing yet guys. >> We all talked about hardware becoming commoditized 10, 15 years ago- >> Yeah of course. >> We get the virtualization, and it's like nope not at all. It's actually a lot of invention happening. >> The lower the price the more the consumption. So guys thanks so much. Great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate your time. >> Really appreciate it I enjoyed the conversation. >> All right and thanks for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next segment right after this short break. Dave Vellante for theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. >> Man Offscreen: Clear. (clapping) >> All right wow. Don't get up. >> Sahir: Okay. >> Is that a Moonwatch? >> Sahir: It is a Speedmaster but it's that the-

>> Man Offscreen: Standby. Dave is coming you in 5, 4, 3, 2. >> We're back at the Big Apple, theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. Sahir Azam is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of MongoDB, and Guillermo Rauch who's the CEO of Vercel. Hot off the keynotes from this morning guys, good job. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us here. Thanks for having us. Guillermo when it comes to modern web development, you know the back-end, the cloud guys got to it kind of sewn up, >> you know- >> Guillermo: Forget about it. >> But all the action's in the front end, and that's where you are. Explain Vercel. >> Yeah so Vercel is the company that pioneers front-end development as serverless infrastructure. So we built Next.js which is the most popular React framework in the world. This is what front-end engineers choose to build innovative UI's, beautiful websites. Companies like Dior and GitHub and TikTok and Twitch, which we mentioned in the keynote, are powering their entire dot-coms or all of their new parts of their dot-coms with Next.js. And Vercel is the serverless platform where you can deploy frameworks like in Next.js and others like Svelte and Vue to create really fast experiences on the web. >> So I hear, so serverless, I hear that's the hot trend. You guys made some announcements today. I mean when you look at the, we have spending data with our friends at ETR right down the street. I mean it's just off the charts, whether it's Amazon, Google, Azure Functions, I mean it's just exploding. >> Sahir: Yeah, it's I think in many ways, it's a natural trend. You know, we talk a lot about, whether it be today's keynote or another industry talks you see around our industry that developers are constantly looking for ways to focus on innovation and the business logic that defines their application and as opposed to managing the plumbing, and management of infrastructure. And we've seen this happen over and over again across every layer of the stack. And so for us, you know MongoDB, we have a bit of, you know sort of a lens of a broad spectrum of the market. We certainly have you know, large enterprises that are modernizing existing kind of core systems, then we have developers all over the world who are building the next big best thing. And that's what led us to partner with Vercel is just the bleeding edge of developers building in a new way, in a much more efficient way. And we wanted to make sure we provide a data platform that fits naturally in the way they want to work. >> So explain to our audience the trade-offs of serverless, and I want to get into sort of how you've resolved that. And then I want to hear from Guillermo, what that means for developers. >> Sahir: Yeah in our case, we don't view it as an either or, there are certain workloads and definitely certain companies that will gravitate towards a more traditional database infrastructure where they're choosing the configuration of their cluster. They want full control over it. And that provides, you know, certain benefits around cost predictability or isolation or perceived benefits at least of those things. And customers will gravitate towards that. Now on the flip side, if you're building a new application or you want the ability to scale seamlessly and not have to worry about any of the plumbing, serverless is clearly the easier model. So over the long term, we certainly expect to see as a mix of things, more and more serverless workloads being built on our platform and just generally in the industry, which is why we leaned in so heavily on investing in Atlas serverless. But the flexibility to not be forced into a particular model, but to get the same database experience across your application and even switch between them is an important characteristic for us as we build going forward. >> And you stressed the cost efficiency, and not having to worry about, you know, starting cold. You've architected around that, and what does that mean for a developer? >> Guillermo: For a developer it means that you kind of get the best of both worlds, right? Like you get the best possible performance. Front-end developers are extremely sensitive to this. That's why us pioneering this concept, serverless front-end, has put us in a very privileged position because we have to deliver that really quick time to first buy, that really quick paint. So any of the old trade-offs of serverless are not accepted by the market. You have to be extremely fast. You have to be instant to deliver that front-end content. So what we talked about today for example, with the Vercel Edge network, we're removing all of the cost of that like first hit. That cold start doesn't really exist. And now we're seeing it all across the board, going into the back-end where Mongo has also gotten rid of it. >> Dave: How do you guys collaborate? What's the focus of integration specifically from, you know, an engineering resource standpoint? >> Yeah the main idea is, idea to global app in seconds, right? You have your idea. We give you the framework. We don't give you infrastructure primitives. We give you all the necessary tools to start your application. In practice this means you host it in a Git repo. You import it onto Vercel. You install the Mongo integration. Now your front-end and your data back-end are connected. And then your application just goes global in seconds. >> So, okay. So you've abstracted away the complexity of those primitives, is that correct? >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> Do do developers ever say, "That's awesome but I'd like to get to them every now and then." Or do you not allow that? >> Definitely. We expose all the underlying APIs, and the key thing we hear is that, especially with the push for usage-based billing models, observability is of the essence. So at any time you have to be able to query, in real time, every data point that the platform is observing. We give you performance analytics in real time to see how your front-end is performing. We give you statistics about how often you're querying your back-end and so on, and your cache hit ratios. So what I talked about today in the keynote is, it's not just about throwing more compute at the problem, but the ability to use the edge to your advantage to memoize computation and reuse it across different visits. >> When we think of mission critical historically, you know, you think about going to the ATM, right? I mean a financial transaction. But Mongo is positioning for mission critical applications across a variety of industries. Do we need to rethink what mission critical means? >> I think it's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak. If you're a new business starting up, your software and your application is your entire business. So if you have a cold start latency or God forbid something actually goes down, you don't have a business. So it's just as mission critical to that founder of a new business and new technology as it is, you know, an established enterprise that's running sort of a more, you know, day-to-day application that we may all interact with. So we treat all of those scenarios with equal fervor and importance right? And many times, it's a lot of those new experiences that the become the day-to-day experiences for us globally, and are super important. And we power all of those, whether it be an established enterprise all the way to the next big startup. >> I often talk about COVID as the forced march to digital. >> Sahir: Mm-Hmm. >> Which was obviously a little bit rushed, but if you weren't in digital business, you were out of business. And so now you're seeing people step back and say, "All right, let's be more thoughtful about our digital transformation. We've got some time, we've obviously learned some things made some mistakes." It's all about the customer experience though. And that becomes mission critical right? What are you seeing Guillermo, in terms of the patterns in digital transformation now that we're sort of exiting the isolation economy? >> One thing that comes to mind is, we're seeing that it's not always predictable how fast you're going to grow in this digital economy. So we have customers in the ecommerce space, they do a drop and they're piggybacking on serverless to give them that ability to instantly scale. And they couldn't even prepare for some of these events. We see that a lot with the Web3 space and NFT drops, where they're building in such a way that they're not sensitive to this massive fluctuations in traffic. They're taking it for granted. We've put in so much work together behind the scenes to support it. But the digital native creator just, "Oh things are scaling from one second to the next like I'm hitting like 20,000 requests per second, no problem Vercel is handling it." But the amount of infrastructural work that's gone behind the scenes in support has been incredible. >> We see that in gaming all the time, you know it's really hard for a gaming company to necessarily predict where in the globe a game's going to be particularly hot. Games get super popular super fast if they're successful, it's really hard to predict. It's another vertical that's got a similar dynamic. >> So gaming, crypto, so you're saying that you're able to assist your customers in architecting so that the website doesn't crash. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> But at the same time, if the the business dynamic changes, they can dial down. >> Yeah. >> Right and in many ways, slow is the new down, right? And if somebody has a slow experience they're going to leave your site just as much as if it's- >> I'm out of here- >> You were down. So you know, it's really maintaining that really fast performance, that amazing customer experience. Because this is all measured, it's scientific. Like anytime there's friction in the process, you're going to lose customers. >> So obviously people are excited about your keynote, but what have they been saying? Any specific comments you can share, or questions that you got that were really interesting or? >> I'm already getting links to the apps that people are deploying. So the whole idea- >> Come on! >> All over the world. Yeah so it's already working I'm excited. >> So they were show they were showing off, "Look what I did" Really? >> Yeah on Twitter. >> That's amazing. >> I think from my standpoint, I got a question earlier, we were with a bunch of financial analysts and investors, and they said they've been talking to a lot of the customers in the halls. And just to see, you know, from the last time we were all in person, the number of our customers that are using multiple capabilities across this idea of a developer data platform, you know, certainly MongoDB's been a popular core database open source for a long time. But the new capabilities around search, analytics, mobile being adopted much more broadly to power these experiences is the most exciting thing from our side. >> So from 2019 to now, you're saying substantial uptick in adoption for these features? >> Yeah. And many of them are new. >> Time series as well, that's pretty new, so yeah. >> Yeah and you know, our philosophy of development at MongoDB is to get capabilities in the hands of customers early. Get that feedback to enrich and drive that product-market fit. And over the last three years especially, we've been transitioning from a single product kind of core, you know, non relational modern database to a data platform, a developer data platform that adds more and more capabilities to power these modern applications. And a lot of those were released during the pandemic. Certainly we talked about them in our virtual conferences and all the zoom meetings we had over the years. But to actually go talk to all these customers, this is the largest conference we've ever put on, and to get a sense of, wow all the amazing things they're doing with them, it's definitely a different feeling when we're all together. >> So that's interesting, when you have such a hot product, product-led growth which is what Mongo has been in, and you add these new features. They're coming from the developers who are saying, "Hey, we need this." >> Yip. >> Okay so you have a pretty high degree of confidence, but how do you know when you have product-market fit? I mean, is it adoption, usage, renewals? What's your metric? >> Yeah I think it's a mix of quantitative measures that you know, around conversion rates, the size of your funnel, the retention rate, NPS which obviously can be measured, but also just qualitative. You know when you're talking to a developer or a technology executive around what their needs are, and then you see how they actually apply it to solve a problem, it's that balance between the qualitative and the quantitative measurement of things. And you can just sort of, frankly you can feel it. You can see it in the numbers sure, but you can kind of feel that excitement, you can see that adoption and what it empowers people to do. And so to me, as a product leader, it's always a blend of those things. If you get too obsessed with purely the metrics, you can always over optimize something for the wrong reason. So you have to bring in that qualitative feedback to balance yourself out. >> Right. >> Guillermo, what's next? What do you not have that you want from Sahir and Mongo? >> So the natural next step for serverless computing is, is the Edge. So we have to auto-scale, we have to tolerate fares. We have to be avail. We have to be easy, but we have to be global. And right now we've been doing this by using a lot of techniques like caching and replication and things like this. But the future's about personalizing even more to each visitor depending on where they are. So if I'm in New York, I want to get the latest offers for New York on demand, just for me, and using AI to continue to personalize that experience. So giving the developer these tools in a way where it feels natural to build an application like this. It doesn't feel like, "Oh I'm going to do this year 10 if I make it, I'm going to do it since the very beginning." >> Dave: Okay interesting. So that says to me that I'm not going to make a round trip to the cloud necessarily for that experience. So I'm going to have some kind, Apple today, at the Worldwide Developer Conference announced the M2, right. I've been looking at the M1 Ultra, and I'm going wow look at that! And so- >> Sahir: You were talking about that new one backstage. >> I mean it's this amazing pace of Silicon development and they're focusing on the NPU and you look at what Tesla's doing. I mean it's just incredible. So you're going to have some new hardware architecture that emerges. Most of the AI that's done today is modeling in the cloud. You're going to have a real time inferencing at the Edge. So that's not going to do the round trip. There's going to be a data store there, I think it has to be. You're going to persist some of the data, maybe not all of it. So it's a whole new architecture- >> Sahir: Absolutely. >> That's developing. That sounds very disruptive. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> How do you think about that, and how does Mongo play there? Guillermo first. >> What I spent a lot of time thinking about is obviously the developer experience, giving the programmer a programming model that is natural, intuitive, and produces its great results. So if they have to think about data that's local because of regulatory reasons for example, how can we let the framework guide them to success? I'm just writing an application I deployed to the cloud and then everything else is figured out. >> Yeah or speed of light is another challenge. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> How can we overcome the speed of light is our next task for sure. >> Well you're working on that aren't you? You've got the best engineers on that one. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> We can solve a lot of problems, I'm not sure of that one. >> So Mongo plays in that scenario or? >> Yeah so I think, absolutely you know, we've been focused heavily on becoming the globally distributed cloud data layer. The back-end data layer that allows you to persist data to align with performance and move data where it needs to be globally or deal with data sovereignty, data nationalism that's starting to rise, but absolutely there is more data being pushed out to the Edge, to your point around processing or inference happening at the Edge. And there's going to be a globally distributed front-end layer as well, whether data and processing takes apart. And so we're focused on one, making sure the data connectivity and the layer is all connected into one unified architecture. We do that in combination with technologies that we have that do with mobility or edge distribution and synchronization of data with realm. And we do it with partnerships. We have edge partnerships with AWS and Verizon. We have partnerships with a lot of CVM players who are building out that Edge platform and making sure that MongoDB is either connected to it or just driving that synchronization back and forth. >> I call that unified experience super cloud, Robbie Belson from Verizon the cloud continuum, but that consistent experience for developers whether you're on Prim, whether you're in you know, Azure, Google, AWS, and ultimately the Edge. That's the big- >> That's where it's going. >> White space right now I'm hearing, Guillermo, right? >> I think it'll define the next generation of how software is built. And we're seeing this almost like a coalition course between some of the ideas that the Web3 developers are excited about, which is like decentralization almost to the extreme. But the Web2 also needs more decentralization, because we're seeing it with like, the data needs to be local to me, I need more privacy. I was looking at the latest encryption features in Mongo, like I think both Web2 need to incorporate more of the ideas of Web3 and vice versa to create the best possible consumer experience. Privacy matters more than ever before. Latency for conversion matters more than ever before. And regulations are changing. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> And you talked about Web3 earlier, talked about new protocols, a new distributed you know, decentralized system emerging, new hardware architectures. I really believe we really think that new economics are going to bleed back into the data center, and yeah every 15 years or so this industry gets disrupted. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> You know you ain't see nothing yet guys. >> We all talked about hardware becoming commoditized 10, 15 years ago- >> Yeah of course. >> We get the virtualization, and it's like nope not at all. It's actually a lot of invention happening. >> The lower the price the more the consumption. So guys thanks so much. Great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate your time. >> Really appreciate it I enjoyed the conversation. >> All right and thanks for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next segment right after this short break. Dave Vellante for theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. >> Man Offscreen: Clear. (clapping) >> All right wow. Don't get up. >> Sahir: Okay. >> Is that a Moonwatch? >> Sahir: It is a Speedmaster but it's that the-

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its eco-system partners. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent '19. This is our third day in Vegas. That's a lot of Vegas. I am joined by my co-host Justin Warren, the founder and chief analyst at PivotNine, and Justin and I are welcoming back one of our CUBE alum. Joining us next from MongoDB is Sahir Azam, its chief product officer. Welcome back! >> Thank you so much, I'm happy to be here. >> So talk to us about what's going on at MongoDB, I know we've had you on the program before, we've had MongoDB, but what's sort of the latest and greatest? >> Yeah, so we're continuing to grow very fast, and especially our cloud product Atlas. We've got two million developers using the platform today, 13,000 customers, many of which are on the amazing AWS platform, and I think people are really embracing the idea of a multicloud database service and a data platform they can have the flexibility to work with no matter where they are. >> Talk about, sorry, Justin, about multicloud a little bit more because it is a symptom as one of our CEOs, Dave Vellante, calls it. A lot of companies have inherited it, it's more by whether it's organically, or it's by acquisition, or developer preference. It's a state in which a lot of businesses are operating, but it's challenging. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing with respect to customers? How can you help them deal better in that world? >> Sure. So, yeah we definitely see some of those exact trends, so, you know for large enterprises, many times, they have different use cases in different business units, where developers or application owners prefer different cloud providers. Oftentimes it's acquisition, but also at a strategic level, at the CTO, CIO, or even CEO level, you know, there is a forethought strategy that it's going to be a multicloud platform world, and now what we see is many customers are still very much focused on a single cloud provider to build-up the skills on, but with a close eye to a second or third tier provider in the architecture that they will scale and balance over time. So, I think it's early days, but the trend is definitely rising in what we're seeing. Now, one of the things that makes a multicloud strategy really hard to implement is the data. You know, especially transactional data that runs live applications that are serving real customers, that makes an application and a development team really stuck on a certain platform. So, what we're focused on at MongoDB is really de-coupling that data layer from the underlying cloud infrastructure providers such that if you want to leverage the benefits of the different services AWS has in their rich ecosystem, but then maybe plumb in something from another provider, we make that extremely easy to do with the click of a button, and move your data across those cloud providers. >> Yeah, so talk about the mechanism for doing that a little bit more, because that's really tricky to do, and that's one thing I think people have been concerned about the idea of multicloud, is that, well, are you actually running in multiple clouds simultaneously, or is it more that, well actually sometimes we just want to move a bit from here to there that we'll use for different applications? >> There's sort of three trends that we see you know, and we're a data platform player, so our use cases are sort of bounded around database technology, data analytics. So, the first is for customers who want high availability across multiple regions within a certain geography, so let's say you're dealing with personal information of German citizens in Germany, Amazon has a region in Germany, only one, and maybe you want Azure or GCP to be a second region for high availability, and you need to rely on a secondary provider, because there's only one from a particular cloud of choice in that geo, so that's sort of one high availability kind of use case. The second is leveraging the benefits of all these different services that the cloud providers themselves are releasing, so we hear a lot of customers that say, you know, Amazon's my preferred partner for operationalizing my app. We use their services, our database runs there, however, we may want to take some of that data, even if it's for a week, even for a few days, a month, and perhaps move it over to another provider to leverage some new analytic service or machine learning, or AI algorithm that they might have. Today, that's really challenging to do. It's the idea that you can click a button, and create that replica, and move that data over very easily is something that people are asking from us. And then the third is geographic reach. So, our database platform, Atlas runs in 70 global regions worldwide, across AWS, Azure, and GCP which makes it the most widely available databases service on the planet. And one of the interesting use cases for that is, let's say somebody is using a single cloud provider for 99% of their work load, but suddenly they see their app take off in Taiwan, you know, maybe another cloud provider has a region in Taiwan, just mix and match and add that region into the architecture very seamlessly. So, those kind of three categories, high availability within geos, the ability to leverage, you know, the rich service offerings and mix and match, and then the geographic reach, are the three things we see for multi plat at a strategic level, beyond the reactive angle of acquiring a company and learning how to have to manage multiple clouds that way. >> That does sound like it's a bit of a trend that we're hearing and particularly today, I think, Lisa, where enterprises want choice, and that customer choice, of being able to choose things that actually suit me, rather than necessarily which vendor I'm buying my infrastructure from. That sounds like something that we're hearing a lot. >> Yeah, and we've invested a lot of time, engineering effort, working with Amazon, working with Google, working with Microsoft, to unify that data layer across the three cloud providers, and I think that's something unique that Mongo's really focused on. >> But there were so many announcements that came out, in Andy Jassy's keynote a couple of days ago. I think I read 23 announcements just in the first 20 minutes, or something of his keynote. So much information, but I'm curious, did anything that they announced surprise you in terms of, hey, customers are living in this multicloud world, there's use cases, there's reasons for it? Any shift that Amazon is making or announced this week that you thought, yes, some of these things are becoming a reality? We have to go where the data is, and we have to deliver what's best for our customers. >> I mean, I think Amazon is a very customer-centric company. I don't think I heard any announcement that particularly acknowledged the fact that it's going to be a multicloud world, you know, I think they're still the market share leader, they have a rich set of offerings, and they're going to continue building on that which I think makes a lot of sense from the position that they're in. I think some of the announcements that are interesting to us, definitely the idea of having lower cost, higher performance ARM hardware and chips for our database vendor. If we can lower the price performance curve for customers on top of that infrastructure, that's exciting for us, and we always think it's interesting, in a AWS keynote that's two or three hours long that about a third or half of it is talk about data. We love data, so the more rich sets of services we can surround and integrate Mongo into, the better, so, exciting for us. >> Data seems to be like the next generation of cloud, data can become a huge asset for any business in any industry, whereas, there are companies and times where data was a risk, a vunerability. What is a great example, in your opinion, of a MongoDB customer who has done a great job of transforming to where data is now a huge asset, and a driver of business differentiation? >> So, one interesting customer example I really like is Axiom. They're a marketing data provider, data has been the heart of their business for a long time, but traditionally their business would be packaging up and shipping data sets to their end customers, in a very custom bespoke manner. What we worked with them on is leveraging our cloud platform Atlas, along with some API technologies that we have, and a product called Stitch, to make it very easy for them to create custom APIs to allow their end customers to access that data programmatically. And since we manage and run that on their behalf, their development team, their operations team don't have to worry about the plumbing and managing of all these API layers and all that, they just stamp out these custom APIs, we auto-scale them on top of the rich Mongo database on the back end, and so we've allowed them to really take the data business they were in, but really modernize it by exposing it directly to developers programmatically instead of just shipping data around which is expensive and cumbersome. So I think that's a really interesting example of a data company transforming itself, and kind of innovating in the cloud with some of the technologies we provide, obviously, on top of the Amazon platform. >> So, you mentioned transforming, that's definitely been a theme of the show. So MongoDB is a different way of actually managing data, so compared to traditional methods. A lot of enterprises still have a lot of investment in RDBMSs, more traditional kind of databases. What are you seeing when customers come to MongoDB and start using this different way of storing and managing data? What is that transition for them like? >> Sure, so I think the thing that MongoDB's inception 11 years ago through now, what drives our adoption, I should say, is really the fact that developers love our platform. The document model, the MongoDB API is just a much more flexible and natural way for developers to think about writing applications, so, you know, you're building an application, you might be managing a customer object, a product, an account. These are all sort of business objects that get represented in a developer's mind and then in an application, but then if you put that in a relational database, you're chopping that up into rows and tables, and then having to rejoin that back together just to make sense of the underlying information you're trying to represent. Mongo gets rid of all of that cognitive dissonance, and that's what really unlocks that developer productivity. Now, the interesting thing about MongoDB is as a non-relational database, we have looked at the legacy RDBMS providers and said, what are the things that are really strong about those platforms that we can bring forth and apply to this much more agile and natural data model? So things like data governance and schema, strong transactional guarantees, enterprise management functionality, enterprise security and encryption at a very deep level. These are things that large mission critical application developers and operators really need. And they don't typically find them in fast databases, scalable databases, like MongoDB. So what we've done is really merge the best of the legacy traditional databases, the things people expect in a rock-solid mission critical database, but brought it forward in a model that's much faster for developers to move quickly on, and so the way that represents itself in our business, roughly about a third of our business any given quarter, tends to come from legacy migrations off of some traditional relational database, and the driver for that is modernization. People want to move those apps to the cloud, they don't just want to lift and shift from one relational database to another necessarily, that might have certain cost benefits from one provider to another, but it doesn't unlock that developer agility, and that's why they're choosing MongoDB. >> So all in the spirit of transformation, the ability for MongoDB to unlock the developer productivity, one of the things Andy Jassy talked about on Tuesday was, one of the four essential pillars of transformation. It's got to come from the top down, it's got to come from that senior executive level, they've got to drive it down aggressively. As chief product officer, where are your conversations? Are you still, in terms of feedback and, you know, customer advisory information, are you still talking mostly to the developer folks who were the primary users, or are you also having those higher level-- >> Sahir: Both. >> Both, tell us a little bit about that. >> Now what's interesting about a data technology like Mongo is, it's not a top down sort of sell. No CIO, CTO, line-of-business executive is going to dictate down to their developers, thou shalt use this particular database technology, or what not. Every development team is going to choose a technology that allows them to move fast and meets their requirements. So, what we've really done is we've focused on engaging with our customers, our sales organization, our marketing organization, our developer relations organization, is merging a strategic top-down sort of model with those CIOs and business leaders about how MongoDB can transform their business as a data platform. Get that sponsorship, get that executive alignment, to be a strategic provider, but then at the same time, really fostering that community that MongoDB's always been known for bottoms up to make sure that more and more of these applications see the power and value of MongoDB. So we have to merge both those motions. If we were just bottoms up, then I think we wouldn't be as strategic as we are in many of these organizations in terms of how transformative as a vendor and a technology provider and partner we are. But at the same time, if we lost our roots with the developers, databases don't get chosen from the top down, they get introduced and put on the list, maybe, and sponsored into the account, but we've got to build and earn that trust with developers directly. >> Yeah, so you've had incredible success, incredible growth so far. >> Sahir: Thank you. >> What's next for Mongo? >> So, I think a big part of our journey for the last three or four years has been really, adding a second major growth engine to the company by building out our cloud business. So that was our MongoDB Atlas platform built on top of AWS, Azure, and GCP, and that is the fastest growing part of our business, and will clearly be, you know, the majority of our business in the future. The next year to two years, is really about transitioning from a single data product company to a data platform company. So earlier this year, we announced not just the core foundational database features we're always building on top of, but also a big step into analytics, with our Atlas Data Lake product, which allows development teams and analysts to run queries using the Mongo query language they love, but on top of S3, where they have mountains and mountains of data stored from all these different sources. And at the same time we've also added things like full text indexing, so instead of standing up a, search cluster next to your Mongo database, having to worry about copying data just to get full text search in your application, we merge that capability directly into the Atlas platform. So, a big part of our journey is saying, once we have so many customers on the platform, how can we add more value, and yet still merge that all in a very expressive developer experience with our query language? So they're not dealing with 13 different databases and four copies of their data and integrating and shuttling that all around, but is a very prescriptive experience for them. >> Wow, Sahir, thank you for sharing all the innovations that are going on at MongoDB with Justin and me on the program today. A lot going on. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the show and coming on theCUBE. >> Lisa: Good, we appreciate your time. >> Great. >> For my co-host Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin, and you've been watching theCUBE from Vegas, baby. AWS re:Invent '19. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> From the Aria resort in Las Vegas it's theCUBE. Covering AWS marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon web services. >> Hey everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are kicking off AWS re:Invent, I don't know how many people are here, I'm guessing 60, could be 70, I don't know, there's a lot of people here in Vegas and we're excited. We'll be here for nine days of continuous coverage spread out over three calendar days, and we're kicking it of tonight. We're at the AWS Marketplace and service catalog experience here at the Quad over at the Aria, so stop on by, there's a lot of cool things going on, and we're excited to have a CUBE alumni on to kick things off. He's Sahir Azam, the SVP of Cloud from MongoDB. It's great to see you. >> Thank you Jeff, great to be here, exciting week coming up at AWS re:Invent. >> Are you ready? >> I think I am ready. It's going to be a long week in Vegas, but it'll be a good week. >> All I could think was all those posts before we got started, said how to plan your time at re:Invent, >> They all say drink a lot of water. >> Drink a lot of water, stay hydrated. So we last caught up at Summit in New York City, I believe. >> Yeah AWS Summit in New York. >> So that was last summer, so how have things been going since then? >> Things have been great, obviously, the business is doing really well, especially our cloud products MongoDB Atlas, and MongoDB stitch have been an absolute rocket ship for the company and that's why we're here, is just really help the community, and drive even more adoption of our technologies in the market. >> So is that a big strategic, I mean obviously, it was a big strategic move for you guys inside, but I'm just curious some of the thought process behind, you know, offering a database as a service via a partner like Amazon. What were some of the things you were thinking about, and how's it kind of turned out based on what your expectations were? >> Sure, yeah, I mean I think, if you look at just overall adoption of MongoDB, obviously you know, we're one of the most widely adopted databases in the world, given we're open source, and really a pioneer in modern non-relational databases. >> Right. >> We've always been heavily used in AWS, even from the early days, nine or 10 years ago and in many ways we feel like we grew up in the cloud, as a company, given just our technology and adoption in that marketplace. Now, what's changed is I think probably, five years ago or so, we really started to hear customers say, you know we really want to get out of the business of operationalizing and securing, and managing these databases, and would rather you give us the same technology, the database we love but deliver it as a service on our cloud platform of choice. So we started on a project internally, to build MongoDB Atlas, which is now available in 15 plus regions on AWS, as well as other cloud platforms as a global database as a service, to help those customers move even faster >> Right >> with MongoDB. >> And it's been about a year right, since you since you released it? >> It's been about three years for MongoDB Atlas, but especially in the last year we've started actually selling out was through the AWS marketplace. >> Right, right. >> Which is really fantastic. >> So how does the marketplace change? I mean obviously, Amazon's got a great scale, and it's a nice sales force, sales presence for you to leverage so, how has that relationship gone? >> Yeah, it's gone really well actually, and especially in large enterprises. I mean, we have large automotives, we've got manufacturers, we've got you know telcos, that have sort of all procured our technolog6y through the AWS marketplace. And I think the benefit for us as a partner, really comes in two ways, first and foremost, its awareness, there are definitely some AWS customers that find their technologies by searching on it in the marketplace and when we pop up, and say okay great this is the databases service from the people behind MongoDB. That instantly just drives our awareness up, and then secondly, it drives really good alignment between our sales teams and Amazon sales team. So the AWS sales force is now aligned and incented to work with us on driving joint opportunity for MongoDB, and now Amazon customers. >> So is there a lot of joint, kind of opportunities that you guys are working together? >> Yup. >> I guess my perception would be that more the marketplace is, you know I find it, I order it, I install it, versus more kind of a joint enterprise sale, but maybe that's not. >> For us it's actually been really interesting on the joint enterprise sale, where it's been, you know they're really that high touch model because it's beneficial for customers to be able to buy their technology through the marketplace, and it's also beneficial for our go-to-market, and our sales teams to be aligned and not feel like we're competing but are actually driving an outcome together for the customer. >> Right, so partnering with Amazon's been a good experience, I know a lot of people are kind of afraid, do we to be partner with these guys, are they big, are they going to you know roll up our functionality? But you guys had a great experience. >> Yeah, I mean the reality is we there are definitely database technologies from Amazon that we compete with. But that's true of probably every technology vendor, and where there are places for us to work together, and deliver real customer value, I mean we're the most widely adopted modern, non-relational kind of database on the planet. >> Right, right. >> So Amazon probably sees that demand, and it's been a good working relationship through the marketplace team, especially at Amazon. >> Good, so I wonder if you can share some other trends you've seen in the marketplace, especially as you said you guys are doing a lot of joint customer activity, what are some of the things you're picking up on, what are you hearing out on the streets? >> Sure I definitely think server list continues to rise. Right, this past year with G8 MongoDB Stitch, which is our server list platform that makes it really easy to extend the power of the database all the way through mobile devices, client applications, and really have a data architecture and not just think of Mongo as something that's used on the backend, so we've been seeing quite a bit of adoption of that platform, and in particular for use cases where MongoDB Atlas is used with complimentary AWS services. So if you want to use AWS Lambda with a MongoDB database, the best way to do so is with Stitch. You want to tie you know Kinesis and streaming technologies into a database for MongoDB, Stitch makes those integrations natively in these other AWS services really easy. >> Right, so I'm curious get your perspective on kind of what percentage, don't share anything you're not supposed to share, of the sales on these things are, new kind of projects inside these enterprises, versus people doing migrations, because there's always this big debate right on legacy? You know you're going to lift and shift, and move it all, versus let that stuff just do what it does, and really the opportunities on Greenfield. >> Yeah, I think, it's probably hard to quantify, but we certainly see a few different patterns. First and foremost, there's like large enterprises that are lifting and shifting, and migrating those applications from on-premises data centers and into the cloud. And really what we see is an opportunity, not just to lift and shift, and manage things the same expensive slow way, but to actually modernize at time of migration, as well. So you can adopt the benefits of a platform as a service, or a database a service like ours, while you move into the cloud. So that helps customers move faster and operate in a much more economical way. So I think that's sort of one piece of it, and then of course there's all sorts of new modern applications, whether it be Connected Car or IOT platforms, modern mobile applications, we're seeing a fair share of like new, fancy applications being built, as well. We definitely see both, and I think for us, one of the things that's unique is given there's been so much MongoDB adoption in AWS, we're seeing a migration of customers that want to get out of the business of running the database, and want to have us manage it for them in the form of MongoDB Atlas. There's that third camp of people are already in Amazon, using MongoDB, but are now saying I want to move it into Atlas because it provides a much better way, and in fact, it's probably the best way to run MongoDB in the cloud. >> Right, right, it makes a ton of sense. I'm curious I'm the first one though, when you talk about modernizing while you're lifting and shifting, or while you're shifting over from legacy infrastructure, what are the key things without doing a complete rewrite, that people can do kind of a modernization of the application, 'cause that's kind of an interesting concept? >> I think it's two things, there are certain applications that people don't want to touch and change that much, and those are probably good candidates to lift and shift, and try to minimize the amount of change on. But frankly those are oftentimes not the most strategic applications anymore, they might be important to keep the lights on, but they're not the ones that are driving the customer experience or driving the revenue, you know new opportunities for businesses. Many of those applications are actually being kind of decomposed from monolithic old technology stacks and legacy tools to more modern micro services based architectures, and what we're seeing, is oftentimes the trigger for that modernization is a cloud migration. So in many ways what we're saying is, get off of a legacy relational database technology, move to the cloud, but don't now operate it the same way you always have, actually consume it as a service, and that's what's really going to unlock all that developer velocity, the elasticity, the cost savings people expect from the cloud. >> Right, so is the the database really the key piece for kind of a modernization effort, without rewriting the entire application? >> I think it's one of the most important pieces, for sure. I mean we like to say that the database, in many ways, is the heart of the application, because an application without data is really sort of generic and useless. So it is definitely one of the more complicated areas, and that's why we spend so much time with customers, building technology that makes it easier for them to modernize, leverage new capabilities, even if it's only new features in an application, versus a rewrite of the whole old model right with the block. >> Alright, Sahir, I think they open the doors, I think AWS is coming in. >> The rush is coming in. It's officially underway, so I know you got a busy week, I got a busy week. >> Likewise. >> Thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. >> Absolutely. >> And stopping by. >> Yeah great to see you. >> Alright, great to see you. >> Alright, thanks for stopping by. He's Sahir, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at the AWS marketplace and service catalog experience, at the Aria, stop on by, see ya. (dance music)

>> It's The Cube, covering AWS Summit New York 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is The Cube's live coverage here in New York City with Amazon Web Services AWS Summit 2018. I'm here with Jeff Frick, I'm John Furrier. Our next guest is Sahir Azam, Senor Vice President of MongoDB for the Cloud products. Mongo's been very successful. Everyone knows it in the developer community. If you've done anything building Agile, Mongo's been there. Great to have you on. >> Happy to be here, thanks guys. >> So Mongo's been one of those success stories where, if you look at the LAMP stack days, and you now look at Agile, it's been the database for everybody. It's been scaling up nicely. Some people were saying, oh Mongo doesn't scale. Well, hello Cloud. You guys have done very, very well. Amazon's a big part of what you guys are doing. What's new with your business and The Cloud? >> It's been quite a story, to be quite honest. We were launched as an open source technology, just about 10 years ago, which was right around the time Amazon really came to market. So in many ways, we've always been well deployed, heavily used in The Cloud. If you look at the massive community phenomenon that is MongoDB, the majority of that actually sits in AWS. But the strategic sort of move that we made a couple years ago, based on customer input was, to start delivering MongoDB as a service, directly on Amazon Web Services. Now we're actually available in over 14 regions on AWS, and it's had a tremendous effect on our business. We launched it, obviously, with 0% of our revenue. It's now, two years later, 14% of our revenue, over 44 hundred customers, and it's just a rocket ship. >> It's such a great trajectory, but I want you to take a minute to explain the dynamics of the database market. Because clearly Amazon's always taking shots at Oracle, you get any chance it's always making fun of Oracle. Because you have the big old school database, but with IoT, databases are proliferating everywhere. And they're really critical part of Agile. How is the database landscape looking like, and how has Cloud taken it up a notch? How has it changed it? >> Yeah, definitely. I think there's sort of two angles I think we see that are really interesting. One is, I think the thing that always drove and still does drive the developer adoption among ODB, is the fact that it's much more natural for a developer to work in a document model. They think building an application, they're thinking about business objects. The user, an invoice, a product, and you can just map that so naturally as a developer in MongoDB, and that is just a much faster business innovation cycle than a traditional, relational database. And that will only grow as more and more organizations, even traditional organizations, start to build customer-facing applications, where their engineering teams now need to ship in an agile manner, pushing out new versions of their application weekly, or daily, instead of annually. So I think that's sort of fundamental. And in many ways, The Cloud accelerates that. Whether you look at the DevOps movement and what's happening there, we're seeing the shift where no one wants to spend the skillset and time to learn how to manage a distributed database system, or any database system, for that matter. They want to focus on writing compelling applications. So if we can deliver at a very economical price point and elastic service that then scales endlessly, it allow them to focus on their core business and us to focus on ours. >> And that's the benefit of The Cloud. But talk about this Atlas product, two years ago who had no customers. Now you have over 4,000 and growing. >> Correct. >> That's just plug and play off The Cloud? Order on the marketplace? How are the customers onboarding? >> There's multiple ways. We have certainly a very healthy self-service, direct-to-developer type of business, where they can go online, swipe a credit card, get started on our free tier, and start off with small development environments that are $10 a month, all the way through giant, globally distributed clusters that can scale an application to millions. So, that starts developer first. However, we're interestingly seeing an uptake of that, especially this year, even an enterprise, established, highly regulated accounts as well, where they have a massive Cloud migration happening in conjunction with Amazon, and they want to use MongoDB because the richness of our database. The ability to now buy through the marketplace and consume it as a service is really compelling. >> So you're curious about how your relationship with the customers changed when you went to as-a-service with the database. Was there significant change in that relationship? How does it change when you've got this ongoing, monthly billing activity? >> Definitely, great question. I think it changed interestingly. Obviously the financial model's different because it's a consumption based model, based on pay for what you use. So that's obviously very Cloud-centric, Cloud-native, that's more of the math side of things. What I think is more interesting is now, we're obviously managing the customer's mission-critical databases. So when they're buying into a technology like Atlas from us, or Stitch from us, it's no longer just choosing Mongo because it's a great product. Its' choosing Mongo because it's a company they trust to run a mission-critical application and scale it as a partner. So it's elevated the strategic nature of how we're used, as a modern, persistent store and database. As an alternative to Oracle is sort of one angle, but now to look at it as a trusted partner. Because frankly, there's a share of risk model that has to happen in a Cloud services model. And that's been the biggest dynamic that's elevated our standing in many of these accounts. >> I presume you see an increased trajectory. It's going to take an increasing share of your total business as you go forward. >> It was 14% last quarter, certainly it's a big focus of ours. It's growing over 400% per year from a scale point of view. So we're doubling down, no question. >> Take a minute to talk about MongoDB Stitch and the four components you guys have in there. What's relevant about that? Why is it important for MongoDB customers and potential customers? >> At the macro level, we're seeing the constant trend of developers wanting to be more productive and consume higher levels of abstractions, and they have to write less code. That's the macro reason why we built Stitch. Because it's always been our mission as a company, to empower developers and build great, amazing apps. But at a specific level, what's interesting is, now that we're in The Cloud, we can enable interesting functionality in a few ways. In one sense, many developers, many engineers, have been used to things like triggers in the relational world, meaning, you're watching for data changing and you want to execute some sort of action. So now we've brought triggers into the non-relational modern database world, which Stitch triggers. So now any change in a database in Atlas can trigger an integration into Amazon's Kinesis service, or dumping data into S3, a variety of different use cases, to enable real time, sort of reactive application. So that's sort of fundamental, that's number one. The second is, enabling client-side apps. Mobile applications, rich web applications, to have more enabling, faster technology. Because now the client app can interact with the database in a much richer way, with the secure model. The query anywhere service does exactly that. It brings the full power of Mongo all the way through the edge, all the way through the client-side application, with Mongo Mobile. So we're really extending our reach and architecture because fundamentally, what we're hearing from developers is, we want to work with MongoDB because it's the best way to work with modern data, but help me do that everywhere. >> It's like stitching together all the data. Jeff, we were just talking about on the IoT portion of our intro package, how, if you stitch it all together, you can really bring everything beautifully together. Because the operators are spending a lot of time wasted on brunt work and tasks that they don't want to do. And with The Cloud, I think this is one of the value propositions we're seeing this year become very clear. And sort of with the VMware relationship annoucement a couple years ago, you're going to hear about it at Google Next and some other Cloud conferences. The developers are king. The operator's still going to be an elevated role, they're not going away. The storage administrator becomes the IT Operations guy, so the operators and the developers are going to create a nice, symbiotic relationship. Is this is where Stitch hits home? >> It his home from a governance and security standpoint around that, as does Atlas, right? Because what we're seeing is the modern operators are saying, listen, it's not strategic for us to learn all the bits and bites of infrastructure management anymore, or database configuration management, whatever it might be. But it is strategic to say, what are the key services that we're going to partner with for the long term of this business, while protecting governance and risk, thinking about security, abstracting away any particular providers. We're definitely seeing an evolution in the traditional operations role, and then at the same time, a developer's influence is consistently increasing in the market. >> I want to get your thoughts on this. You've been an industry veteran for a while, going back to the old BMC days, or before that, looking at the early days, and when the tech stacks are pretty well understood. And certainly Mongo made their bones, early days with LAMP stack, early days with Open source, now certainly changed with Cloud. Looking back now and seeing what's happening now, a lot of people are reawakening to The Cloud. I was just talking to an investor in Silicon Valley, who was doing some work in China just five years, has kind of been out of the enterprise IT space, he's like, damn, the stack has changed significantly. What have you observed, how would you talk about the changes between just five, six years ago and today? From a stack standpoint, from a capability standpoint, from a critical architecture standpoint, what's your view? >> I think, first and foremost, we're seeing a shift in application architecture. We're seeing the idea of micro services, decomposed applications, decoupled components and functionality, that's only rising. And we're seeing that, interestingly, not only for new applications, but also legacy modernization of existing applications. So now, that's actually driving a change in our business. Instead of the shiny, new IoT apps or mobile apps or web apps, that Mongo's always been strong for, we're now seeing 30% of our business come from legacy application modernization to micro services. >> 30% of your business is modernizing legacy apps? >> Correct. >> Wow. >> As they want to drive faster developer productivity, better economics, obviously, of running that application and build it on a more modern platform and architecture. >> You put a container around Kubernetes, you can now bring them into a modern architecture without sunsetting them rapidly. You don't have to rip and replace. You can just let it take a natural lifecyle. >> Right. And we basically play with that in two ways. If you're in the public Cloud, there's a nice fit between Kubernetes wrapping all the different app components, making them abstracted, scalable, Atlas underneath this fluid data layer. Or, if a customer's their own data center trying to modernize their stack, standardizing on Kubernetes, we now integrate our IP around automation and management directly into Kubernetes. That was one of the big announcements we made a few weeks ago. >> That makes Mongo really more versatile than ever before. I think the database as a service proves that you can really see the value of how having not a one spot only in the stack you can sit down with Atlas and then provide agility. Is that what's going on? >> The key driver is always agility for us. And then there's, oh wow, there's a huge cost savings to this as well. Whether it be in terms of productivity, infrastructure cost, just because of the native architecture, so as we see more and more organization become software companies, effectively, as the saying goes, that's just been a huge tailwind to our business. >> So two final questions for me, and I'll Jeff ask his questions. One, what's the relationship with Amazon look like now? And the second question is, what should people know about Mongo if they haven't been keeping in touch with Mongo lately? What's the new, big bumper sticker that they should know about from Mongo? >> On the first point, the relationship with Amazon is very strong. We obviously partnered with them originally when we built Atlas and continued to do so. And just core architecture. Building a database and service that's best in class on their platform. And expanding initially from four or five regions to now global footprint and that was the first phase. Now, we're heavily focused on going to market. Whether it's our sales teams working together on accounts, working on migration opportunities, or new application architectures. Whether it's marketplace adoption that we're together, trying to drive in inquiries. There's quite a bit of collaboration happening. Certainly they have databases and services, but we believe certainly functionality-wise, there's a huge ecosystem around Mongo, and they see that and want to empower them with Atlas. So that's been a huge advantage to driving growth into the market. The second point around what I would want people to know about Mongo is, MongoDB today probably would surprise people from our original roots. Our original roots were systems of engagement, high scale web applications, new apps, we're fantastic at that. Obviously, Stitch is a way to double down on that value. But as I touched upon earlier, now we're really betting on a more general purpose strategy, where we brought forth things like transactions and acts of compliance for the first time to non-relational databases. So we really believe that there's no application today for which Mongo can't give the same level of developer benefit. Even if it's a heavy transactional mission-critical application. >> Doubling down on the web app, core business, giving them more range and functionality to go anywhere they want to go with those apps. >> Exactly. And, saying alright, there's this huge wave of billions of dollars built on legacy technology, how do we unlock those applications, get them on a modern platform, that allows those apps to stick around for the next 20 years and deliver customer values. >> It's not your dad's tingen, I guess that's the take away. >> Inside joke, tingen. Formerly MongoDB. Thanks for coming on The Cube. Great to see you. Congratulations on your role at Mongo. Great company, CMO. Great to see your success, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me, I really enjoyed the conversation. >> The Cube, here live in New York City. More coverage, stay with us. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. We'll be right back, thanks for watching, stay with us.

(electronic music) >> Hello everybody, welcome back to Boston. This is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Inforce 2022. We're here at the convention center in Boston where theCUBE got started in May of 2010. I'm really excited. Lena Smart is here, she's the chief information security officer at MongoDB rocket ship company We covered MongoDB World earlier this year, June, down in New York. Lena, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> You're very welcome, I enjoyed your keynote yesterday. You had a big audience, I mean, this is a big deal. >> Yeah. >> This is the cloud security conference, AWS, putting its mark in the sand back in 2019. Of course, a couple of years of virtual, now back in Boston. You talked in your keynote about security, how it used to be an afterthought, used to be the responsibility of a small group of people. >> Yeah. >> You know, it used to be a bolt on. >> Yep. >> That's changed dramatically and that change has really accelerated through the pandemic. >> Yep. >> Just describe that change from your perspective. >> So when I started at MongoDB about three and a half years ago, we had a very strong security program, but it wasn't under one person. So I was their first CISO that they employed. And I brought together people who were already doing security and we employed people from outside the company as well. The person that I employed as my deputy is actually a third time returnee, I guess? So he's worked for, MongoDB be twice before, his name is Chris Sandalo, and having someone of that stature in the company is really helpful to build the security culture that I wanted. That's why I really wanted Chris to come back. He's technically brilliant, but he also knew all the people who'd been there for a while and having that person as a trusted second in command really, really helped me grow the team very quickly. I've already got a reputation as a strong female leader. He had a reputation as a strong technical leader. So us combined is like indestructible, we we're a great team. >> Is your scope of responsibility, obviously you're protecting Mongo, >> Yeah. >> How much of your role extends into the product? >> So we have a product security team that report into Sahir Azam, our chief product officer. I think you even spoke to him. >> Yeah, he's amazing. >> He's awesome, isn't he? He's just fabulous. And so his team, they've got security experts on our product side who are really kind of the customer facing. I'm also to a certain extent customer facing, but the product folks are the absolute experts. They will listen to what our customers need, what they want, and together we can then work out and translate that. I'm also responsible for governance risk and compliance. So there's a large portion of our customers that give us input via that program too. So there's a lot of avenues to allow us to facilitate change in the security field. And I think that's really important. We have to listen to what our customers want, but also internally. You know, what our internal groups need as well to help them grow. >> I remember last year, Re:invent 2021, I was watching a talk on security. It was the, I forget his name, but it was the individual who responsible for data center security. And one of the things he said was, you know, look it's not at the end of the day, the technology's important but it's not the technology. It's how you apply the tools and the practices and the culture- >> Right. That you build in the organization that will ultimately determine how successful you are at decreasing the ROI for the bad guys. >> Yes. >> Let's put it that way. So talk about the challenges of building that culture, how you go about that, and how you sustain that cultural aspect. >> So, I think having the security champion program, so that's just, it's like one of my babies, that and helping underrepresented groups in MongoDB kind of get on in the tech world are both really important to me. And so the security champion program is purely voluntary. We have over a hundred members. And these are people, there's no bar to join. You don't have to be technical. If you're an executive assistant who wants to learn more about security, like my assistant does, you're more than welcome. Up to, we actually people grade themselves, when they join us, we give them a little tick box. Like five is, I walk in security water. One is, I can spell security but I'd like to learn more. Mixing those groups together has been game changing for us. We now have over a hundred people who volunteer their time, with their supervisors permission, they help us with their phishing campaigns, testing AWS tool sets, testing things like queryable encryption. I mean, we have people who have such an in-depth knowledge in other areas of the business that I could never learn, no matter how much time I had. And so to have them- And we have people from product as security champions as well, and security, and legal, and HR, and every department is recognized. And I think almost every geographical location is also recognized. So just to have that scope and depth of people with long tenure in the company, technically brilliant, really want to understand how they can apply the cultural values that we live with each day to make our security program stronger. As I say, that's been a game changer for us. We use it as a feeder program. So we've had five people transfer from other departments into the security and GRC teams through this Champions program. >> Makes a lot of sense. You take somebody who walks on water in security, mix them with somebody who really doesn't know a lot about it but wants to learn and then can ask really basic questions, and then the experts can actually understand better how to communicate. >> Absolutely. >> To that you know that 101 level. >> It's absolutely true. Like my mom lives in her iPad. She worships her iPad. Unfortunately she thinks everything on it is true. And so for me to try and dumb it down, and she's not a dumb person, but for me to try and dumb down the message of most of it's rubbish, mom, Facebook is made up. It's just people telling stories. For me to try and get that over to- So she's a one, and I might be a five, that's hard. That's really hard. And so that's what we're doing in the office as well. It's like, if you can explain to my mother how not everything on the internet is true, we're golden. >> My mom, rest her soul, when she first got a- we got her a Macintosh, this was years and years and years ago, and we were trying to train her over the phone, and said, mom, just grab the mouse. And she's like, I don't like mice. (Lena laughs) There you go. I know, I know, Lena, what that's like. Years ago, it was early last decade, we started to think about, wow, security really has to become a board level item. >> Yeah. >> And it really wasn't- 2010, you know, for certain companies. But really, and so I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Robert Gates, who was the defense secretary. >> Yes. >> We had this conversation, and he sits on a number, or sat on a number of boards, probably still does, but he was adamant. Oh, absolutely. Here's how you know, here. This is the criticality. Now it's totally changed. >> Right. >> I mean, it's now a board level item. But how do you communicate to the C-Suite, the board? How often do you do that? What do you recommend is the right regime? And I know there's not any perfect- there's got to be situational, but how do you approach it? >> So I am extremely lucky. We have a very technical board. Our chairman of the board is Tom Killalea. You know, Amazon alum, I mean, just genius. And he, and the rest of the board, it's not like a normal board. Like I actually have the meeting on this coming Monday. So this weekend will be me reading as much stuff as I possibly can, trying to work out what questions they're going to ask me. And it's never a gotcha kind of thing. I've been at board meetings before where you almost feel personally attacked and that's not a good thing. Where, at MongoDB, you can see they genuinely want us to grow and mature. And so I actually meet with our board four times a year, just for security. So we set up our own security meeting just with board members who are specifically interested in security, which is all of them. And so this is actually off cadence. So I actually get their attention for at least an hour once a quarter, which is almost unheard of. And we actually use the AWS memo format. People have a chance to comment and read prior to the meeting. So they know what we're going to talk about and we know what their concerns are. And so you're not going in like, oh my gosh, what what's going to happen for this hour? We come prepared. We have statistics. We can show them where we're growing. We can show them where we need more growth and maturity. And I think having that level of just development of programs, but also the ear of the board has has helped me mature my role 10 times. And then also we have the chance to ask them, well what are your other CISOs doing? You know, they're members of other boards. So I can say to Dave, for example, you know, what's so-and-so doing at Datadog? Or Tom Killelea, what's the CISO of Capital One doing? And they help me make a lot of those connections as well. I mean, the CISO world is small and me being a female in the world with a Scottish accent, I'm probably more memorable than most. So it's like, oh yeah, that's the Irish girl. Yeah. She's Scottish, thank you. But they remember me and I can use that. And so just having all those mentors from the board level down, and obviously Dev is a huge, huge fan of security and GRC. It's no longer that box ticking exercise that I used to feel security was, you know, if you heated your SOC2 type two in FinTech, oh, you were good to go. You know, if you did a HERC set for the power industry. All right, right. You know, we can move on now. It's not that anymore. >> Right. It's every single day. >> Yeah. Of course. Dev is Dev at the Chario. Dev spelled D E V. I spell Dave differently. My Dave. But, Lena, it sounds like you present a combination of metrics, so, the board, you feel like that's appropriate to dig into the metrics. But also I'm presuming you're talking strategy, potentially, you know, gaps- >> Road roadmaps, the whole nine yards. Yep. >> What's the, you know, I look at the budget scenario. At the macro level, CIOs have told us, they came into the year saying, hey we're going to grow spending at the macro, around eight percent, eight and a half percent. That's dialed down a little bit post Ukraine and the whole recession and Fed tightening. So now they're down maybe around six percent. So not dramatically lower, but still. And they tell us security is still the number one priority. >> Yes. >> That's been the case for many, many quarters, and actually years, but you don't have an unlimited budget. >> Sure >> Right. It's not like, oh, here is an open checkbook. >> Right. >> Lena, so, how does Mongo balance that with the other priorities in the organization, obviously, you know, you got to spend money on product, you got to spend money and go to market. What's the climate like now, is it, you know continuing on in 2022 despite some of the macro concerns? Is it maybe tapping the brakes? What's the general sentiment? >> We would never tap the breaks. I mean, this is something that's- So my other half works in the finance industry still. So we have, you know, interesting discussions when it comes to geopolitics and financial politics and you know, Dev, the chairman of the board, all very technical people, get that security is going to be taken advantage of if we're seeing to be tapping the brakes. So it does kind of worry me when I hear other people are saying, oh, we're, you know, we're cutting back our budget. We are not. That being said, you also have to be fiscally responsible. I'm Scottish, we're cheap, really frugal with money. And so I always tell my team: treat this money as if it's your own. As if it's my money. And so when we're buying tool sets, I want to make sure that I'm talking to the CISO, or the CISO of the company that's supplying it, and saying are you giving me the really the best value? You know, how can we maybe even partner with you as a database platform? How could we partner with you, X company, to, you know, maybe we'll give you credits on our platform. If you look to moving to us and then we could have a partnership, and I mean, that's how some of this stuff builds, and so I've been pretty good at doing that. I enjoy doing that. But then also just in terms of being fiscally responsible, yeah, I get it. There's CISOs who have every tool that's out there because it's shiny and it's new and they know the board is never going to say no, but at some point, people will get wise to that and be like, I think we need a new CISO. So it's not like we're going to stop spending it. So we're going to get someone who actually knows how to budget and get us what the best value for money. And so that's always been my view is we're always going to be financed. We're always going to be financed well. But I need to keep showing that value for money. And we do that every board meeting, every Monday when I meet with my boss. I mean, I report to the CFO but I've got a dotted line to the CTO. So I'm, you know, I'm one of the few people at this level that's got my feet in both camps. You know budgets are talked at Dev's level. So, you know, it's really important that we get the spend right. >> And that value is essentially, as I was kind of alluding to before, it's decreasing the value equation for the hackers, for the adversary. >> Hopefully, yes. >> Right? Who's the- of course they're increasingly sophisticated. I want to ask you about your relationship with AWS in this context. It feels like, when I look around here, I think back to 2019, there was a lot of talk about the shared responsibility model. >> Yes. >> You know, AWS likes to educate people and back then it was like, okay, hey, by the way, you know you got to, you know, configure the S3 bucket properly. And then, oh, by the way, there's more than just, it's not just binary. >> Right, right. >> There's other factors involved. The application access and identity and things like that, et cetera, et cetera. So that was all kind of cool. But I feel like the cloud is becoming the first line of defense for the CISO but because of the shared responsibility model, CISO is now the second line of defense >> Yes. Does that change your role? Does it make it less complicated in a way? Maybe, you know, more complicated because you now got to get your DevSecOps team? The developers are now much more involved in security? How is that shifting, specifically in the context of your relationship with AWS? >> It's honestly not been that much of a shift. I mean, these guys are very proactive when it comes to where we are from the security standpoint. They listen to their customers as much as we do. So when we sit down with them, when I meet with Steve Schmidt or CJ or you know, our account manager, its not a conversation that's a surprise to me when I tell them this is what we need. They're like, yep, we're on that already. And so I think that relationship has been very proactive rather than reactive. And then in terms of MongoDB, as a tech company, security is always at the forefront. So it's not been a huge lift for me. It's really just been my time that I've taken to understand where DevSecOps is coming from. And you know, how far are we shifting left? Are we actually shifting right now? It's like, you know, get the balance, right? You can't be too much to one side. But I think in terms of where we're teaching the developers, you know, we are a company by developers for developers. So, we get it, we understand where they're coming from, and we try and be as proactive as AWS is. >> When you obviously the SolarWinds hack was a a major mile- I think in security, there's always something in the headlines- >> Yes. But when you think of things like, you know, Stuxnet, you know, Log4J, obviously Solarwinds and the whole supply chain infiltration and the bill of materials. As I said before, the adversary is extremely capable and sophisticated and you know, much more automated. It's always been automated attacks, but you know island hopping and infiltrating and self-forming malware and really sophisticated techniques. >> Yep. >> How are you thinking about that supply chain, bill of materials from inside Mongo and ultimately externally to your customers? >> So you've picked on my third favorite topic to talk about. So I came from the power industry before, so I've got a lot of experience with critical infrastructure. And that was really, I think, where a lot of the supply chain management rules and regulations came from. If you're building a turbine and the steel's coming from China, we would send people to China to make sure that the steel we were buying was the steel we were using. And so that became the H bomb. The hardware bill of materials, bad name. But, you know, we remember what it stood for. And then fast forward: President Biden's executive order. SBOs front and center, cloud first front and center. It's like, this is perfect. And so I was actually- I actually moderated a panel earlier this year at Homeland Security Week in DC, where we had a sneak CISA, So Dr. Allen Friedman from CISA, and also Patrick Weir from OWASP for the framework, CISA for the framework as well, and just the general guidance, and Snake for the front end. That was where my head was going. And MongoDB is the back-end database. And what we've done is we've taken our work with Snake and we now have a proof of concept for SBOs. And so I'm now trying to kind of package that, if you like, as a program and get the word out that SBOs shouldn't be something to be afraid of. If you want to do business with the government you're going to have to create one. We are offering a secure repository to store that data, the government could have access to that repository and see that data. So there's one source of truth. And so I think SBOs is going to be really interesting. I know that, you know, some of my peers are like, oh, it's just another box to tick. And I think it's more than that. I definitely- I've just, there's something percolating in the back of my mind that this is going to be big and we're going to be able to use it to hopefully not stop things like another Log4j, there's always going to be another Log4j, we know that. we don't know everything, the unknown unknown, but at least if we're prepared to go find stuff quicker than we were then before Log4j, I think having SBOs on hand, having that one source of truth, that one repository, I think is going to make it so much easier to find those things. >> Last question, what's the CISO's number one challenge? Either yours or the CISO, generally. >> Keeping up with the fire hose that is security. Like, what do you pick tomorrow? And if you pick the wrong thing, what's the impact? So that's why I'm always networking and talking to my peers. And, you know, we're sometimes like meerkats, you know. there's meerkats, you see like this, it's like, what do we talk about? But there's always something to talk about. And you just have to learn and keep learning. >> Last question, part B. As a hot technology company, that's, you know, rising star, you know not withstanding the tech lash and the stock market- >> Yeah. >> But Mongo's growing, you know, wonderfully. Do you find it easier to attract talent? Like many CISOs will say, you know, lack of talent is my biggest, biggest challenge. Do you find that that's not the challenge for you? >> Not at all. I think on two fronts, one, we have the champions program. So we've got a whole internal ecosystem who love working there. So the minute one of my jobs goes on the board, they get first dibs at it. So they'd already phoning their friends. So we've got, you know, there's ripple effects out from over a hundred people internally. You know, I think just having that, that's been a game changer. >> I was so looking forward to interviewing you, Lena, thanks so much for coming. >> Thank you, this was a pleasure. >> It was really great to have you. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. >> You're really welcome. All right, keep it right there. This is Dave Villante for theCUBE. We'll be right back at AWS Re:inforce22 right after this short break.