>> From the cube studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to the cubes. Special presentation on the future of cloud. Three years ago, Alan Nance said to me that in order to really take advantage of cloud and drive billions of dollars of value, you have to change the operating model. I've never forgotten that statement and have explored it from many angles over the last three years. In fact it was one of the motivations for me actually running this program for our audience. Of course with me is Alan Nance. He is a change agent. He's led transformations at large organizations, including ING bank, Royal Phillips, Barclay's bank, and many others. He's also a co-founder of CitrusCollab. Alan, great to see you. Thanks for coming on the program. >> Thanks for having me again, Dave. >> All right, so when we were preparing for this interview, you shared with me the following, you said enterprise IT, often hasn't really tapped the true powers that are available to them to make real connections, to take advantage of that opportunity, connections to the business that is. What do you mean by that? >> Well I think we we've been saying for quite a long time that enterprise IT is certainly a big part of our past in technology. But just how much is it going to be in the future? And enterprise IT has had a difficult time under the cost pressures of being a centralized organization with large, expensive, large topics. While at the same time we see obviously the digital operations for growing oftentimes in separate reporting structures and closest to the business. And what I'm thinking right now is enterprise IT, if it has made this transition to a cloud operating models, whether they are proprietary or whether they are public cloud, there's a huge opportunity for enterprise IT to connect the dots in a way that no other part of the organization can do that. And when they connect those dots, working closely with the business, they unleash a huge amount of value that is beyond things like efficiency or things like just providing cloud computing to be flexible. It has to be much more about value generation. And I think that a lot of leaders of enterprise IT have not really grasped that. And I think that's the opportunity sitting right in front of them right now. >> You know what I've seen lately? I wonder if you could comment, is obviously we always talk about the stove pipes, but you've seen the CIO, the chief data officer that you just mentioned, the chief digital officer, the chief information security officer, they've largely been in their own silos of definitely seeing a move to bring those together. I'm seeing a lot of CDOs and CIO roles come together. And even the chief information or the head of security reporting up into that, where there seems to be as you're sort of suggesting just a lot more visibility across the entire organization. Is it an organizational issue? Is it a mindset? Go on if you could comment. >> Well I would say it's two or three different things. Certainly it's an organizational issue, but I think it starts off with a cultural issue. And I think what you're seeing, and if you look at the more progressive companies that you see, I think you are also seeing a new emergence of the enlightened technology leader. So with all respect to me and my generation our tenure as the owners of the large enterprise IT is coming to an end. And we grew up trying to master the complexity of the silos as you so deftly pointed out. Out we were battling this soaring technology, trying to get it under control, trying to get the costs down, trying to reduce CapEx. And a lot of that was focused on the partnerships that we had with technology suppliers. And so that mindset of being engineers struggling for control, having your most important part of being a technology company itself, I've got now, I think is giving way, giving way to a new generation of technology leaders who haven't grown up with that culture. And oftentimes what I see is that the new enlightened CIOs are female and they are coming into the role outside of the regular promotion chain, so they're coming to these roles through finance, HR, marketing, and they're bringing a different focus. And the focus is much more about how do we work together to create an amazing experience for our employees and for our customers and an experience that drives value. So I think there's a reset in the culture. And clearly when you start talking about creating a value chain to improve experience, you're also talking about bringing people together from different multidisciplinary backgrounds to make that happen. >> Well that's kind of, it makes me think about Amazon's mantra of working backwards, start with the experience. And then a lot of CIOs that I know would love to be more involved in the business, but they're just so busy trying to keep the lights on. Like you said, trying to manage vendors and in the like. I've had a discussion the other day with an individual, we were talking about how, you got to shift from a product mindset to a platform mindset, but you've said that the platform thinking you're always ahead of the game. Platform thinking it needs to make way for ecosystem thinking. Unless you're into that, it'd be giant scale business like Amazon or Spotify you said, you're going to be in a niche market if you really don't tap that ecosystem again . If you could explain what you mean by that? >> Well I think right now, if this movement to experience is fundamental. Right? So Joe Pine and Jim Gilmore wrote about the experience economy as far back in 1990, but the things that they predicted then are here now. And so what we're now seeing is that consumers have choice. Employees have choice. I think the pandemic has accelerated that. And so what happens when you put an enterprise under that type of external pressure, is that it fragments. And if it can fragment in two ways. It can fragment dysfunctionally so that every silo tries to go into a defensive mode, protective mode. That's obviously the wrong way to go. But the fragmentation that's exciting is when it fragments into ecosystems that are actually working together to solve and experience problem. And those are not platforms they're too big. When I was at Phillips, I was very enthusiastic about working on this connected healthcare platform. But I think what I started to realize was it takes too much time. It requires too much investment and you are bringing people who tune you based on your capability, whereas what the market needs is much more agile than that. So if we look in healthcare, for instance and you want to connect patients at home, with patients, with the doctors in the hospital. In the old model when you said, I'm going to build a platform for this, I'm going to have doctors with a certain competence, so they're going to be connecting into this. And so are the patients in some way. And so are the insurers. I think what you're going to see now is different. We're going to say let's get together a small team that understands its competence. So for instance, let's get an insurance provider, let's get a healthcare operator, let's get a healthcare tech company and let's pull their data in a way that helps us to create solutions now that can roll out in 30, 60 or 90 days. And the thing that makes that possible is the move to the public cloud. Because now there are so many specialized suppliers, specialized skillsets available that you can connect to through Amazon, through Google, through Azure, that these things that we used to think were very, very difficult, are now much easier. I don't want to minimize the effort, but these things are on the table right now to read value. >> So you're also technologist. And I want to ask you and everybody always says, technology is easy part of the people and the process. We can all agree on that. However sometimes technology can be a blocker. And the example that you just mentioned, I have a couple of takeaways from that. First of all the platform thinking is somewhat, sounds like it's more command and control and you're advocating for let's get the ecosystem who are closest to the problem to solve those problems. However they decide and they'll leverage the cloud. So my question is from a technology standpoint. Does that ecosystem have to be in the same cloud, with the state of today's technology? can it be across clouds? Can be there pieces on prem? What's your thinking on that? >> I think exactly the opposite. It cannot be monolithic and centralized. It's just not practical because that would cause you too much time on interoperability. And who owns what. You see the power behind experience is data. And so the most important technical part of this is dealing with data liquidity. So the data that, for instance somebody like Kaiser has or the Harvard Mental Healthcare have or the Phillips have, that's not going to be put into a central place for the ecosystem mobilization. There will be subsets of that data flowing between those parties. So the technical, the hardware. Is how do we manage data liquidity? How do we manage the security around data liquidity? And how do we also understand that what we're building is going to be ever changing and maybe temporary, because an idea may not work. And so you've got this idea that the timeliness is very very important. The duration is very uncertain. The mojo energy for this is data liquidity, data transfer, data sharing. But the vehicle is the combination of public cloud, in my mind. >> Somebody said to me, hey that data's like water. It'll go where it wants to go, where it needs to go and you can't try to control it. It's let it go. Now of course many organizations, particularly large incumbent organizations they have many many data pipelines. They have many processes, many roles, and they're struggling to actually kind of inject automation into those pipelines. Maybe that's machine intelligence really do more data sharing across that pipeline and ultimately compress the end and cycle time to go from raw data to insights that are actionable. What are you seeing there? And what's your advice? >> Well I think you make some really good points, but what I hear also a little bit in your observation is you're still observing enterprises. And the focus of the enterprise has been on optimizing the processes within the boundaries of its own system. That's why we have SAP and this why we have Salesforce. And to some degree even service now. It's all been about optimizing how we move data, how we create production services. And that's not the game now. That's not an important game. The important game right now is how do I connect to my employees? How do I connect to my customers in a way that provides them a memorable experience? And the realization is, I'm assuming it's already manufacturing for some years. I can't be all things to all people. So I have to understand this is where the first part of data comes in. I have to understand. Who this person is that I am trying to target? Who is the person that needs this memorable experience? And what is that memorable experience going to look like? And I'm going to need my data, but I'm also going to need the data of other actors in that ecosystem. And then I'm going to have to build that ecosystem really quickly to take advantage of the system. So this throws a monkey rage in traditional ideas of standardization. It throws a monkey rage in the idea that enterprise IT is about efficiency. If I may, I just want to come back to the AI because I think we're looking in the wrong places. Things like AI. And let me give you an example today, there are 2.2 million people working in call centers around the world. If we imagine that they work in three shifts, that means that anyone time there are 700,000 people on the phone to a customer, and that customer is calling that company because they're vested, they're calling them with advice. They're calling them with a question they're calling them with a complaint. It is the most important source of valuable data that any company has. And yet, what have we done with that? What we've done with that is we've attacked it with efficiency. So instead of saying, these are the most valuable sources of information, let's use AI to tag the sentiment in the recordings that we make with our most valuable stakeholders. And let's analyze them for trends, ideas things that needs to change. We don't do that. What we do is we're going to give every cool agent two minutes to get them off the phone. For God's sake, don't answer many important, difficult questions. Don't spend money talking to the customer, try to make them happy. So they get a score and say, they hire you at the end of the call, and then you're done. So where the AI automation needs to come in is not in improving your efficiency, but in mining value. And the real opportunity with AI is that Joe Pine says this. "If you are able to understand the customer, rather than interpret them, that is so valuable to the customer, that they will pay money for that". And I think that's where the whole focus needs to be in this new team in enterprise IT, and they're still in the business. >> That's a great observation. I think we can all relate to that in your call center example, or you've been a restaurant, and you're trying to turn the tables fast and get out of there. And it's the last time you ever go to that restaurant. And you're taking that notion of systems thinking and broadening it to ecosystems thinking. And you've said, ecosystems have a better chance of success when they're used to stage and experience for whether it's the employee for the brand. And of course the customer and the partners. >> That's it that's exactly it. So every technology leader should be asking themselves what contribution can I and my organization make to this movement, because the business understands the problem. They don't understand how to solve it, and we've chosen a different dialogue. So we've been talking a lot about what cloud can do and the functionality that cloud has and the potential that cloud has. And those are all good things, but it really comes together. Now when we work together and we as the technology group brings in the know how we know how to connect quickly through the public cloud, we know how to do that in a secure way. We know how to manage data liquidity at scale, and we can stand these things up through our new learning of agile and DevOps. We can stand these ecosystems up fairly quickly. Now there's still a whole bunch of culture between different businesses that have to work together. The idea that I have to protect my data rather than serve the customer. But once you get past that, there's a whole new conversation enterprise IT can have, that I think gives them a new lease of life, new value. And I just think it's a really really exciting time. >> (inaudible) The intersection of a lot of different things. You talk about cloud as an enabler for sure. And that's great. We can talk about that, but you've got this. What you were referring to before is maybe you're in a niche market, but you have your marketplace. And like you're saying, you can actually use that through an ecosystem to really leave a much, much broader available market. And then vector that into the experience economy. We talk about subscriptions, the API economy, that really is new thinking. >> It is and I think what you're seeing here it's not radical in as much as all of these ideas have been around. Some of them have been around since the nineties, but what's radical is the way in which we can now mix and match these technologies to make this happen. That's growing so quickly. And I would argue to you and I've argued this before. Scale, scale as a concept within an organization is dead. It doesn't give you enough value. It gives you enough efficiency and it gives you a cloud. And it doesn't give you the opportunity to target the niche experiences that you need to do. So if we start to think of an organization as a combination of known and unknown potential ecosystems, you start to build a different operating model, a different architectural idea. You start to look outside more than you start to look inside. Which is why the cultural change that we were talking about just now goes hand in hand with this because people have to be comfortable thinking in ecosystems that may not yet exist and partnering with people where they bring to the table. There 20, 30 years of experience in a new and different way. >> So let me make sure I understand that. So you basically, if I understand it, you're saying that if your sort of end goal is scale and efficiency at scale you're going to have a vanilla solution for your customers in your ecosystem. Whereas if you will allow this outside in thinking to come in, you're going to be able to actually customize those experience, experiences and get the value of scale and efficiency. >> Right, so I mean Rory Sutherland, who is a big thinker in the marketing world has always said, "ultimately scale standardization and best practice lead to mediocrity". Because you are not focused on the most important thing for your employee or your brand. You're focused on the efficiency factors and they create very little value. In fact we know that they subvert value. So yes we need to have a very big mindset change. >> Yeah you're a top line thinker Alan and always at the forefront. I really appreciate you coming on to the cube and participate in this program. Give us a last word. So if you're a change agent, I'm an organization and I want to inject this type of change. Where do I start? >> Well I think it starts by identifying. Are we going to work on the employee experience? Do we feel that we have a model where the employees that are on stage with customers are so important that the focus has to be employees. We go down that route and then we look at what's happened to the pandemic. What type of experiences are we going to bring to those employees around their ability to have flow in their work, to get return on energy, to excite the customers? Let's do that. Let's figure out what experience are we driving now? And what does that experience need to be? If we're the customer side. As I said let's look at all the sources of information that we already have. I know companies that spend hundreds of millions a year trying to figure out what consumers want. And yet if we look in their call sentences, you will call up and they will say to you, your call may be recorded for quality purposes and training. And it's not true, less than 10% of those calls are ever listened to. And if they listened to, it's compliance, that's driving that, not the burning desire to better understand the consumer. So if we change that, then we shall get to. What can we change? What is the experience we are now able to stage with all we know and with all we can do. And let's start there, let's start with, what is the experience you want to stage? What's the experience landscape look like now? And who do we bring together to make that happen? >> Alan fantastic. Having you back in the cube, it's always a pleasure and thanks so much for participating. >> Thank you, Dave. It's always a pleasure to speak with you. >> And thank you everybody. This is Dave Vellante the cube on cloud. We'll be right back right after this short break, stay with us. (soft music)

(soft music) (soft music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube. Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We're live in Las Vegas. This is the Cube. SiliconAngles flagship program. We got out to the events and extract the (mumbles). Been here two full days of wall to wall coverage. I'm John Furrier. My cohost Peter Burris. Peter really good to see Oracle really move from modern marketing experience, the old show name, to a cleaner broader canvas called Modern CX. Which is modern customer experience. And you startin to see the new management which took the baton from the old management. Kevin Akeroyd. Andrea Ward who did a lot of work. I mean they basically did a ton of acquisitions. We talked last year if you remember. Look they have a data opportunity and we spelled it right out there and said if they can leverage that data horizontally and then offer that vertical specialism with differentiation, they could have their cake and eat it too. Meaning the pillars of solutions in a digital fabric with data. That's what they did. They essentially did it. >> Yeah they did. And it's been, it was a. We came here hoping that that's what we would see and that's what we saw John. Oracle not only has access to a lot of data but a lot of that first person data that really differentiates the business. Information about your finances. Information about your customers. Information about orders. That's really, really crucial data. And it's not easy to get. And if you could build a a strategy for your customers that says let's find ways of bringing in new sources of data. Leveraging that data so that we can actually help you solve and serve your customers better. You got a powerful story. That's a great starting point. >> And one of the things that I would observe here is that this event, the top story was that Mark Hurd came down and talked to the customers in the keynote. And also made a cameo visit to the CMO, some which they had separately. But really kind of basically putting it transparently out there. Look we got all this technology. Why are we spending all of this technology and effort to get a one percent conversion rate on something that happens over here. Let's look at it differently. And I think the big story here is that Oracle puts the arc to the future. Which I think is a very relevant trajectory. Certainly directionally correct using data and then figuring out your process and implementing it. But really looking at it from a people perspective and saying if you can use the data, focus your energies on that data to get new things going. And not rely on the old so much. Make it better but bring in the new. >> I think that's the one thing that we need to see more from Oracle in all honesty. At shows, this show, and shows like this. Is that and we asked the question to a couple quests. What exactly is modern marketing? Technology can allow a company to do the wrong things faster and cheaper. And in some cases that's bad. In marketing that's awful. Because more of the wrong thing amplifies the problem. That's how you take down a brand. You can really annoy the hell out of your customers pretty quickly. >> Well I think you made that point interesting I thought. On that just to reiterate that, validate that, and amplify. Is that if you focus more on serving the business as a marketer versus now it's about the customer. Okay which is why I like the CX and I know you do too. You can create enterprise value through that new way. Versus hey look what team. I'm helping you out with some leads and whatever. Support, content. Marketing now owns the customer relationship. >> Well marketers talk about a persona all the time John. They say what's the persona? It's a stylized type of customer, and now with data we can make it increasingly specific. Which is very, very powerful. I think Oracle needs to do the same thing with the marketing function. What is that marketing function persona that Oracle is, it's self driving to. Driving it's customers to. And trying to lead the industry into. So I would personally like to see a little bit more about what will be the role of marketing in the future. What exactly is the modern. What exactly is modern marketing? What is the road map that Oracle has, not just for delivering the technology, but for that customer transformation that they talk about so much. It's clear that they have an idea. I'd like to see a little bit more public. Cause I think a lot of marketers need to know where they're going to end up. >> I was a bit skeptical coming in here today. I was a little nervous and skeptical. I like the team though, the people here. But I wasn't sure they were going to be able to pull this off as well as they did. I'd give them a solid letter grade of an A on this event. Not an A plus because I think there's some critical analysis that's worth addressing in my opinion. In my opinion Oracle's missing some things. It's not their fault. They're only going as fast as they can. Not to get into your perspective too, but here's my take. They don't know how to deal with video. That came up as technical issue. But Jay -- >> But nobody really does. >> But nobody really does. And that's just again because we're in the video business it jumped out at me. But Jay Baer was on. Who's hosted the CMO Summit. And he's out there too like us. Content is a big thing. And I haven't heard a lot about the content equation in the marketing mix. So if you look at the modern marketing mix, content is data. And content is instrumental as a payload for email marketing. And we're in the content business so we know a lot about the engagement side of it. So I just don't see a lot of the engagement conversations that are happening around content. Don't see that dots connecting. >> And I think you're right. I think you're right John. And part of the reason is, and again I think Oracle needs to do a better job at articulating what this means. From our perspective, it's my perspective but you agree with me. I'll put words in your mouth. Is that marketing has to be a source of value to customers. Well what do customers find valuable? They find information in easily digestible, consumable chunks as they go on their journey. What are those chunks? Those chunks, in fact, are content. So to tie this back and show how crucial this is. At the end of the day, consumers, businesses need to learn about your brand. Need to learn about next best action. All that other stuff. In consumable interesting, valuable chunks. And it ultimately ends up looking like content. So your absolutely right to talk about how this all comes together and show how, that content is the mechanism by which a lot of this value's actually going to be delivered. Is really crucial. >> And now to give the praise sandwich, as we say in positive coaching alliance, two positives and then the critical analysis in the middle. That's the praise sandwich. So to give them some praise around the criticism. I will say that Oracle validates for me, and this is why I think they got a good strategy. That there's no silver bullet in marketing. Okay there's no silver bullet. This product will get you more engagement. This will do that. They do show that data is going to be an instruble part of creating a series of collections of silver bullets. Of bullets if you will. To create that value. And I think that's the key. And then the second praise is, this is kind of nuance in their analysis. But the third party data support, is a big deal in my mind. I want to expand more on that. I want to learn more about it. Because when you have the first party data, which is very valuable, and access to more data sources. That becomes increasingly interesting. So the extensibility for getting content data or other data can come in through third party. I think that opens the door for Oracle to innovate on the area we gave the criticism on. So I think that's a positive trend. I think that's a good outlook on having the ability to get that third party data. >> Yeah but it's also going to be one of the places where Oracle is going to have to compete very, very aggressively with some other leaders who are a little bit more oriented towards content. At least some of their marketing clients are a little bit more content oriented. I'm comfortable Oracle will get there because let's face it. At the end of the day, marketing's always done a pretty good job of created, creative, using data to figure out what creative to use or create is nice. Very important. But what we're really talking about is customer experience. Will the customer get something out of every interaction? And while content's crucial to that the end result is ultimately, is the customer successful? And Oracle is showing a better play for that. So I'll give you, I like the way you did it on the grading. I'll give them a B plus. But I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we saw A talent here. We saw an A minus story. And they're a year in. So there's still some work that needs to be done, but it's clearly -- >> Why you weighted as a B plus >> I give them an A on vector. And where they're going. >> I would agree with that. >> And the feedback that we've gotten from the customers walking the show floor. There's a lot of excitement. A lot of positive energy. The other thing that I would say -- >> Oh the band. I'd give the band, the band was a B minus. (Peter laughs) Yeah that takes it. That's going to kill the curve. >> What was the band last night? >> I don't even remember. We missed the good one, I know that. We had dinner so we came late. It was a good band. It wasn't like, it wasn't like Maroon 5 or One Republic. Or Imagine Dragons or U2. >> Or one of the good ones. Sting. C minus. But the other thing that I think is really important is at least it pertains to modern customer experience. Is that they are, they are absolutely committed to the role the data's going to play. And we talked about that right at the front. But they are demonstrating a deep knowledge of how data and data integration and data flows are really going to impact the way their customers businesses operate. And I think that there were a couple of, I'll give a really high point and one that I want to hear more about in terms of the interviews we had. Great high point was one, we talked a lot about data science and how data science technologies are being productized. And that we heard, for example, that Oracle's commitment to it's marketplace is that they are going to insure that their customers can serve their customer's customers with any request within 130 milliseconds anywhere in the world. That's a very, very powerful statement that you can only really make if you're talking about having an end to end role over, or influence -- >> Like we commented, that's a good point. Like we commented that this end to end architecture is going to be fundamental. If you read the tea leaves and look at other things happening, like at Mobile World Congress. Intel I think is a bellwether on this with 5G. Cause they have to essentially create this overlay for connectivity as well as network transformation to do autonomous vehicles. To do smart cities. To smart homes. All these new technologies. It's an end to end IPR (mumbles). It's connected devices. So they're super smart to have this connected data theme which I think's relevant. But the other one, Ron Corbusier's talked about this evolution. And I find some of these, and I want to get your reaction to this statement. So Ron was kind of like, "oh it's an evolution. "We've seen this movie before." Okay great. But when you talk to Marta Feturichie, who was a customer from Royal Phillips. >> Peter: Great interview. >> She's head of CRM. Now she's doing some other stuff. So okay. What does CRM mean? So if you think evolution. What the customers are doing. Time Warner and Royal. It's interesting. Certain things are becoming critical infrastructure and other things are becoming more dynamic and fluid. So if you believe in evolution, these are layers of innovation. So stuff can be hardened as critical infrastructure, say like email marketing. So I think that what's happening here is you start to see some hardening of some critical infrastructure, aka marketing technology. MarTech (mumbles). Maybe some consolidation. AdTech kind of comes together. Certain things are going to be hardened and platformized. >> Let's take the word hardened and change it cause I know what you mean. Let's say it's codified. Now why is that, why is that little distinction a little bit interesting is because the more codified it gets, the more you can put software on it. The more you can put software on it the more you can automate it. And now we're introducing this whole notion of the adaptive intelligence. Where as we start to see marketing practices and processes become increasingly codified. What works, what doesn't work? What should we do more of? What should we do less of? Where should we be spending out time and innovating? Versus where should we just be doing it because it's a road activity at this point in time. That's where introducing this adaptive intelligence technology becomes really interesting. Because we can have the adaptive technology elements handle that deeply codified stuff where there really is not a lot of room for invention. And give the more interesting ongoing, customer engagement, customer experience -- >> Right on. And I think we should challenge Oracle post event and keep an eye on them on this adaptive intelligence app concept. Because that is something that they should ride to the sunset cause that is just a beautiful positioning. And if they can deliver the goods on that, they say they have it. We'll expand on that. That's going to give them the ability to churn out a ton of apps and leverage the data. But to the codified point you're making, here's my take. One of the things that I hear from customers in marketing all the time is a lot of stuff if oh yeah mobile first all that stuff. But still stuff's web presence based. So you got all these coded URL's. You got campaigns running ten ways from Sunday. DNS is not built to be adaptive and flexible. So it's okay to codify some of those systems. And say, "look we just don't tinker with these anymore." They're locked and loaded. You build on top of it. Codify it. And make that data the enabling technology from that. >> Peter: Without it become new inflexible (mumbles). >> Yeah I can't say, "Hey let's just tweak the hardened infrastructure "to run an AB test on a campaign." Or do something. No, no. You set this codified systems. You harden them. You put software on top of them. And you make it a subsystem that's hardened. And that's kind of what I mean. That's where the market will go because let's face it. The systems aren't that intelligent to handle a lot of marketing. >> Peter: They're still computers. >> They're still computers. People are running around just trying to fix some of this spaghetti code in marketing. And as the marketing department gets more IT power. Hey you own it. They're owning now. Be afraid what you wish for you might get it. So now they own the problem. So I think Oracle on the surfaces side has a huge opportunity to do what they did with Time Warner. Come into the market and saying, "Hey we got that for you." And that's what Hurd's kind of subtle message was on his keynote. Hey we're IT pros, but by the way you don't need to be in the IT business to do this. We fix your problems and roll out this -- >> We're going to talk to you in your language. And your language is modern customer experience. Which is one of the reasons why they've got to be more aggressive. And stating what they mean by that. >> And we have all the data in our data cloud. And all the first party data in our Oracle database. >> Right, right exactly right. >> That system of record becomes the crown jewel. Oracle has a lock spec on the table. You think it's a lock spec? >> Uh no. And that's exactly why I think they need to articulate where this is all going a little bit. They have to be a leader in defining what the future of marketing looks like so they can make it easier for people to move forward. >> Alright putting you on the spot. What do you think a modern marketing looks like? And organization. >> We talked about this and the answer that I gave, and I'll evolve it slightly, cause we had another great guest and I thought about it a little bit more is. A brand continuously and always delivers customer value. Always. And one of the -- >> Kind of cliche-ish. >> Kind of cliche-ish. >> Dig into it. >> But modern marketing is focused on delivering customer value. >> How? >> If they're deliver - well for example when the customer has a moment in a journey of uncertainty. Your brand is first is first to the table with that content that gets them excited. Gets them comfortable. >> Lot of progression. >> Makes them feel ready to move forward. That your, and well I'll make another point in a second. And I would even say that we might even think about a new definition of funnel. At the risk of bringing up that old artifact. Historical funnel went to the sale. Now we can actually start thinking about what's that funnel look like to customer success. >> Well there's two funnel dynamics that are changing. This is important, I think. This is going to be one of those moments where wow the Cube actually unpacked a major trend and I believe it to be true. The vertical funnel has collapsed. And now the success funnel is not >> Peter: It's not baked. >> Not big. It's decimated from this perspective of if the sale is the end game of the funnel, pop out that's over. Your point is kind of like venture funding for starter. That's when the start line begins. So here it's, okay we got a sale. But now we have instrumentation to take it all the way through the life cycle. >> And you know John. That's a great way of thinking about it. That many respects when you, when you introduce a customer to a new solution that has complex business implications that you are jointly together making an investment in something. And you both have to see it through. >> I mean sales guys put investment proposal on the -- >> That's exactly right. And so I think increasingly. So I would say modern marketing, modern marketing comes down to customer success. A prediction I'll make for next year is that this session is called, you know we'll call it the modern marketing modern customer experience show. But the theme is going to be customer success. >> Heres what I'm going to do. Here's what we're going to do this year Peter. We're going to, we will, based upon this conversation which we're riffing in real time as we analyze and summarize the event. We, I will make it my mission. And you're going to work with me on this as a directive. We're going to interview people, we're going to pick people that are truly modern marketing executives. >> Peter: That's great. >> We're going to define a simple algorithm that says this is what we think a modern marketing executive looks like. And we're going to interview them. We're going to do a story on them. And we're going to start to unpack because I think next year. We should be coming here saying, "we actually did our work on this." We figured out that a modern marketing organization and an executive behave and look this way. >> Right I think it's a great idea. So I'll give you one more thought. Cause I know you'll like this one too. Doug Kennedy. The partner. The conversation that we had. >> Very good. >> Talking about clearly a grade A executive. Seven weeks into the job. But that is going to be, you know for this whole thing to succeed he's got a lot of work in front of him. It's going to be very interesting to see how over the course of time this show and other Oracle shows evolve. >> I have a lot of partner experience. You do too. He's got a zillion years under his belt. He's a pro. He did not have any deer in the headlights look for seven weeks on the job. He's been there. He's done that. He knows the industry. He's seen the cycles of change. He's ridden waves of innovation up and down. And I think Oracle has a huge opportunity with his new program. And that is Oracle knows how to make money. Okay Oracle knows how to price things. They know how to execute on the sales side and go to market. And partners relationships are grounded in trust. And profitability. I would say profitability first and trust second. And it's kind of a virtuous circle. >> But John they've got to start getting grown in customer experience right? >> John: Yeah, yep. >> And that's not, it's doable but it's going to be a challenge. >> Well we talk about swim lanes with his interview, and I thought that was interesting. If you look at a center for instance, Deloy, PWC and all the different players. They're picking their swim lanes where their core competency is. And that's what he was basically saying. They're going to look for core competency. Now I think they're not there yet. The major SI's and potential partners. So he's going to have to put the spec out and put the bar there and say this is what we got to do. But you got to make the channel serve the customer. It has to be profitable. And it has to be relevant. And the only dangerous strategy I would say is the co-selling thing is always dicey. >> Especially if one has customer experience as a primary. >> It requires equilibrium in the ecosystem. >> You got it, you got it. >> It isn't there. >> And also it's a multi-partner go to market. It's not just one or two now. >> So he's going to have to really spread the love at the same time have hardened rules. Stick to his knitting on that one. Okay Peter final word. What do you, bottom line the show. Encapsulate the show into a bumper sticker. >> Well we heard Amazon released today. Google released today. Beat their numbers. Two companies that are trying to build an ecosystem from their core of the cloud. And the question is. Is Oracle who has customers with applications and with that first person data. Are they going to be able to cloudify, sorry for using that word, but are they going to be able to gain that trust that this new operating model they're really committed to for the future. Before Amazon and Google can create applications to their platform. Because Oracle has the end to end advantage right now. And in the world where digital's important. Speed's important. The fidelity of the data's important. The customer experience is important. That end to end has a window of opportunity. >> And I would also add two other companies reported, Microsoft and Intel and missed. So you have Amazon and Google. New guard, newer guard. Old guard Intel, Microsoft. Oracle is considered old guard even though they have some modernization going on from CX and the cloud. But Oracle is cloud a hundred percent in the cloud. Their SAP, for instance, is going multi-class. So the wild card in all this is, if the multi-cloud game evolves. >> Think end to end. End to end. Because that has advantages. When you're talking data, one of the things that Jack Brookwood said. He said, "you know why we can hit that 150 millisecond target?" >> Cause you don't have to move the data around. >> Cause sometimes we don't have to move the data around. >> This can be very interesting. And this going to be fun to watch and participate in. Of course the Cube will covering Oracle, well we'll be there again this year. We don't have the exacts specifics on that, but certainly if your interested in checking us out. Were siliconangle.com. Peter's research is at wikibon.com as well as SiliconANGLE on the front page. SiliconAngle.tv has all the videos. And well will be documenting and following the modern marketing experience with people and companies. And documenting that on the Cube and SiliconANGLE. So that's a wrap from day two at Oracle Modern CX. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)