>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back here on theCUBE, joined by Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, as we wrap up our coverage here of the Red Hat Summit here in 2019. We've been here in Boston all week, three days, Stu, of really fascinating programming on one hand, the keynotes showing quite a diverse ecosystem that Red Hat has certainly built, and we've seen that array of guests reflected as well here, on theCUBE. And you leave with a pretty distinct impression about the vast reach, you might say, of Red Hat, and how they diversified their offerings and their services. >> Yeah, so, John, as we've talked about, this is the sixth year we've had theCUBE here. It's my fifth year doing it and I'll be honest, I've worked with Red Hat for 19 years, but the first year I came, it was like, all right, you know, I know lots of Linux people, I've worked with Linux people, but, you know, I'm not in there in the terminal and doing all this stuff, so it took me a little while to get used to. Today, I know not only a lot more people in Red Hat and the ecosystem, but where the ecosystem is matured and where the portfolio is grown. There's been some acquisitions on the Red Hat side. There's a certain pending acquisition that is kind of a big deal that we talked about this week. But Red Hat's position in this IT marketplace, especially in the hybrid and multi-cloud world, has been fun to watch and really enjoyed digging in it with you this week and, John Walls, I'll turn the camera to you because- >> I don't like this. (laughing) >> It was your first time on the program. Yeah, you know- >> I like asking you the questions. >> But we have to do this, you know, three days of Walls to Miniman coverage. So let's get the Walls perspective. >> John: All right. >> On your take. You've been to many shows. >> John: Yeah, no, I think that what's interesting about what I've seen here at Red Hat is this willingness to adapt to the marketplace, at least that's the impression I got, is that there are a lot of command and control models about this is the way it's going to be, and this is what we're going to give you, and you're gonna have to take it and like it. And Red Hat's just on the other end of that spectrum, right? It's very much a company that's built on an open source philosophy. And it's been more of what has the marketplace wanted? What have you needed? And now how can we work with you to build it and make it functional? And now we're gonna just offer it to a lot of people, and we're gonna make a lot of money doing that. And so, I think to me, that's at least what I got talking to Jim Whitehurst, you know about his philosophy and where he's taken this company, and has made it obviously a very attractive entity, IBM certainly thinks so to the tune of 34 billion. But you see that. >> Yeah, it's, you know, some companies say, oh well, you know, it's the leadership from the top. Well, Jim's philosophy though, it is The Open Organization. Highly recommend the book, it was a great read. We've talked to him about the program, but very much it's 12, 13 thousand people at the company. They're very much opinionated, they go in there, they have discussions. It's not like, well okay, one person pass this down. It's we're gonna debate and argue and fight. Doesn't mean we come to a full consensus, but open source at the core is what they do, and therefore, the community drives a lot of it. They contribute it all back up-stream, but, you know, we know what Red Hat's doing. It's fascinating to talk to Jim about, yeah you know, on the days where I'm thinking half glass empty, it's, you know, wow, we're not yet quite four billion dollars of the company, and look what an impact they had. They did a study with IDC and said, ten trillion dollars of the economy that they touch through RHEL, but on the half empty, on the half full days, they're having a huge impact outside. He said 34 billion dollars that IBM's paying is actually a bargain- >> It's a great deal! (laughing) >> for where they're going. But big announcements. RHEL 8, which had been almost five years in the works there. Some good advancements there. But the highlight for me this week really was OpenShift. We've been watching OpenShift since the early days, really pre-Kubernetes. It had a good vision and gained adoption in the marketplace, and was the open source choice for what we called Paths back then. But, when Kubernetes came around, it really helped solidify where OpenShift was going. It is the delivery mechanism for containerization and that container cluster management and Red Hat has a leadership position in that space. I think that almost every customer that we talked to this week, John, OpenShift was the underpinning. >> John: Absolutely. >> You would expect that RHEL's underneath there, but OpenShift as the lever for digital transformation. And that was something that I really enjoyed talking to. DBS Bank from Singapore, and Delta, and UPS. It was, we talked about their actual transformation journeys, both the technology and the organizational standpoint, and OpenShift really was the lever to give them that push. >> You know, another thing, I know you've been looking at this and watching this for many many years. There's certainly the evolution of open source, but we talked to Chris Wright earlier, and he was talking about the pace of change and how it really is incremental. And yet, if you're on the outside looking in, and you think, gosh, technology is just changing so fast, it's so crazy, it's so disruptive, but to hear it from Chris, not so. You don't go A to Z, you go A to B to C to D to D point one. (laughing) It takes time. And there's a patience almost and a cadence that has this slow revolution that I'm a little surprised at. I sense they, or got a sense of, you know, a much more rapid change of pace and that's not how the people on the inside see it. >> Yeah. Couple of comment back at that. Number one is we know how much rapid change there is going because if you looked at the Linux kernel or what's happening with Kubernetes and the open source, there's so much change going on there. There's the data point thrown out there that, you know, I forget, that 75% or 95% of all the data in the world was created in the last two years. Yet, only 2% of that is really usable and searchable and things like that. That's a lot of change. And the code base of Linux in the last two years, a third of the code is completely overhauled. This is technology that has been around for decades. But if you look at it, if you think about a company, one of the challenges that we had is if they're making those incremental change, and slowly looking at them, a lot of people from the outside would be like, oh, Red Hat, yeah that's that little Linux company, you know, that I'm familiar with and it runs on lots of places there. When we came in six years ago, there was a big push by Red Hat to say, "We're much more than Linux." They have their three pillars that we spent a lot of time through from the infrastructure layer to the cloud native to automation and management. Lots of shows I go to, AnsiballZ all over the place. We talked about OpenShift 4 is something that seems to be resonating. Red Hat takes a leadership position, not just in the communities and the foundations, but working with their customers to be a more trusted and deeper partner in what they're doing with digital transformation. There might have been little changes, but, you know, this is not the Red Hat that people would think of two years or five years ago because a large percentage of Red Hat has changed. One last nugget from Chris Wright there, is, you know, he spent a lot of time talking about AI. And some of these companies go buzzwords in these environments, but, you know, but he hit a nice cogent message with the punchline is machines enhance human intelligence because these are really complex systems, distributed architectures, and we know that the people just can't keep up with all of the change, and the scope, and the scale that they need to handle. So software should be able to be helping me get my arms around it, as well as where it can automate and even take actions, as long as we're careful about how we do it. >> John: Sure. There's another, point at least, I want to pick your brain about, is really the power of presence. The fact that we have the Microsoft CEO on the stage. Everybody thought, well (mumbles) But we heard it from guest after guest after guest this week, saying how cool was that? How impressive was that? How monumental was that? And, you know, it's great to have that kind of opportunity, but the power of Nadella's presence here, it's unmistakable in the message that has sent to this community. >> Yeah, you know, John, you could probably do a case study talking about culture and the power of culture because, I talked about Red Hat's not the Red Hat that you know. Well, the Satya Nadella led Microsoft is a very different Microsoft than before he was on board. Not only are they making great strides in, you know, we talk about SaaS and public cloud and the like, but from a partnership standpoint, Microsoft of old, you know, Linux and Red Hat were the enemy and you know, Windows was the solution and they were gonna bake everything into it. Well, Microsoft partnered with many more companies. Partnerships and ecosystem, a key message this week. We talked about Microsoft with Red Hat, but, you know, announcement today was, surprised me a little bit, but when we think about it, not too much. OpenShift supported on VMware environments, so, you know, VMware has in that family of Dell, there's competitive solutions against OpenShift and, you know, so, and virtualization. You know, Red Hat has, you know, RHV, the Red Hat Virtualization. >> John: Right, right, right. >> The old day of the lines in the swim lanes, as one of our guests talked about, really are there. Customers are living in a heterogeneous, multi-cloud world and the customers are gonna go and say, "You need to work together, before you're not gonna be there." >> Azure. Right, also we have Azure compatibility going on here. >> Stu: Yeah, deep, not just some tested, but deep integration. I can go to Azure and buy OpenShift. I mean that, the, to say it's in the, you know, not just in the marketplace, but a deep integration. And yeah, there was a little poke, if our audience caught it, from Paul Cormier. And said, you know, Microsoft really understands enterprise. That's why they're working tightly with us. Uh, there's a certain other large cloud provider that created Kubernetes, that has their own solution, that maybe doesn't understand enterprise as much and aren't working as closely with Red Hat as they might. So we'll see what response there is from them out there. Always, you know, we always love on theCUBE to, you know, the horse is on the track and where they're racing, but, you know, more and more all of our worlds are cross-pollinating. You know, the AI and AI Ops stuff. The software ecosystems because software does have this unifying factor that the API economy, and having all these things work together, more and more. If you don't, customers will go look for solutions that do provide the full end to end solution stuff they're looking for. >> All right, so we're, I've got a couple in mind as far as guests we've had on the show. And we saw them in action on the keynotes stage too. Anybody that jumps out at you, just like, wow, that was cool, that was, not that we, we love all of our children, right? (laughing) But every once in awhile, there's a story or two that does stand out. >> Yeah, so, it is so tough, you know. I loved, you know, the stories. John, I'm sure I'm going to ask you, you know, Mr. B and what he's doing with the children. >> John: Right, Franklin Middle School. >> And the hospitals with Dr. Ellen and the end of the brains. You know, those tech for good are phenomenal. For me, you know, the CIOs that we had on our first day of program. Delta was great and going through transformation, but, you know, our first guest that we had on, was DBS Bank in Singapore and- >> John: David Gledhill. >> He was so articulate and has such a good story about, I took outsourced environments. I didn't just bring it into my environment, say okay, IT can do it a little bit better, and I'll respond to business. No, no, we're going to total restructure the company. Not we're a software company. We're a technology company, and we're gonna learn from the Googles of the world and the like. And he said, We want to be considered there, you know, what was his term there? It was like, you know, bank less, uh, live more and bank less. I mean, what- >> Joyful banking, that was another of his. >> Joyful banking. You don't think of a financial institution as, you know, we want you to think less of the bank. You know, that's just a powerful statement. Total reorganization and, as we mentioned, of course, OpenShift, one of those levers underneath helping them to do that. >> Yeah, you mentioned Dr. Ellen Grant, Boston Children's Hospital, I think about that. She's in fetal neuroimaging and a Professor of Radiology at Harvard Medical School. The work they're doing in terms of diagnostics through imaging is spectacular. I thought about Robin Goldstone at the Livermore Laboratory, about our nuclear weapon monitoring and efficacy of our monitoring. >> Lawrence Livermore. So good. And John, talk about the diversity of our guests. We had expats from four different countries, phenomenal accents. A wonderful slate of brilliant women on the program. From the customer side, some of the award winners that you interviewed. The executives on the program. You know, Stefanie Chiras, always great, and Denise who were up on the keynotes stage. Denise with her 3D printed, new Red Hat logo earrings. Yeah, it was an, um- >> And a couple of old Yanks (laughing). Well, I enjoyed it, Stu. As always, great working with you, and we thank you for being with us as well. For now, we're gonna say so long. We're gonna see you at the next Red Hat Summit, I'm sure, 2020 in San Francisco. Might be a, I guess a slightly different company, but it might be the same old Red Hat too, but they're going to have 34 billion dollars behind them at that point and probably riding pretty high. That will do it for our CUBE coverage here from Boston. Thanks for much for joining us. For Stu Miniman, and our entire crew, have a good day. (funky music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host for theCUBE. In this segment, we're going to be talking about Red Hat and the AWS evolving partnership. A great segment, really talking about how Hybrid and the Enterprise are evolving, certainly multicloud and the horizon. But a lot of benefits in the cloud, we've been covering on theCUBE and on SiliconANGLE with Red Hat for the past year. Very relevant. We've got Gunnar Hellekson, GM of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, And Joe Fernandes, VP and GM of the Hybrid Platforms, both of Red Hat. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us John. >> So, you know, me, I'm a fan boy of Red Hat. So I always say, you guys made all the right investments, OpenShift, all these things that you guys made decisions years ago playing out beautifully. And I think, you know, with Amazon's re:Invent, you're seeing the themes all play out. Modern application stack, you're starting to see things at the top of the stack evolve, you've got 5G in the Edge, workloads being redefined and expanded on the cloud with Cloud Scale. So everything has been going down to Hybrid and Enterprise grade level discussions. This is in the Wheelhouse of Red Hat. So I want to congratulate you. But what's your reaction? What do you guys see this year at re:Invent? What's the top story? >> I can start. >> Who wants to start with first? >> Sure, I mean, clearly, AWS itself is huge. But as you mentioned, the world is Hybrid, right, so customers are running still in their data center, in the Amazon Public Cloud across multiple Public Clouds and out to the Edge and bring in more and more workloads. So it's not just the applications, analytics. It's AI, it's machine learning. And so, yeah, we can expect to see more discussion around that, more great examples of customer use cases. And as you mentioned, Red Hat has been right in the middle of this for some time John. >> You guys also had some success with the fully managed OpenShift service called ROSA, R-O-S-A, which is Red Hat OpenShift Service on AWS, another acronym, but really this is about what the customers are looking for. Can you take us through an update on OpenShift on AWS, because the combination of managed services in the cloud, refactoring applications, but working on-premises is a big deal. Take us through why that's so important. >> Yeah, so, we've had customers running OpenShift on AWS for a long time, right? So whether it's our software-based offerings where customers deploy OpenShift themselves, or our fully managed cloud service. We've had cloud services on AWS for over five years. What ROSA brings or Red Hat OpenShift on AWS is a jointly managed service, right? So we're working in partnership with Amazon, with AWS to make OpenShift available as a jointly-managed service offering. It's a native AWS service offering. You can get it right through the AWS console. You can leverage your AWS committed spend. But, most importantly, you know, it's something that we're working on together. Bringing new customers to the table for both Red Hat and AWS. And we're really excited about it because it's really helping customers accelerate their move to the public cloud and really helping them drive that Hybrid strategy that we talked about. >> Gunnar, you know what I want to get your thoughts on this, because one of the things that I love about this market right now is open-source continues to be amazing, continues to drive more value, and there's new migration of talent coming in. The numbers are just continuing to grow and grow. But the importance of Red Hat's history with AWS is pretty significant. I mean, Red Hat pioneered Open-source and it's been involved with AWS from the early days. Can you take us through a little bit of history for the folks that may not know Red Hat's partnership with AWS? >> Yeah. I mean, we've been collaborating with AWS since 2008. So for over a decade we've been working together, and what's made the partnership work is that we have a common interest in making sure that customers have a consistent approachable experience. Whether they're going on-premise or in the cloud. Nobody wants to have to go through an entire retraining and retooling exercise just to take advantage of all the great advantages of the cloud. And, so being able to use something like Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a consistent substrate on which you can build your application platforms is really attractive. So, that's where the partnership started. And since then we've had the ability to better integrate with native AWS services. And one thing I want to point out is that, a lot of these integrations are kind of technical. It's not just about technical consistency across these platforms, it's also about operational consistency and business concerns. And when you're moving into an Open Hybrid Cloud kind of a situation, that's what becomes important, right? You don't want to have two completely different tool sets on two completely different platforms. You want as much consistency as possible as you move from one to the other. And I think a lot of customers see value in that, both for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux side of the business, and also on the OpenShift side of the business. >> Well that's interesting. I'd love to get your both perspective on this whole Enterprise focus, because the Enterprise is, as you know, guys you've been there from the beginning, they have requirements. And there're sometimes, they're different by Enterprise. So as you see cloud, and I remember early days of Amazon, it's the 15th year of AWS, 10th year of re:Invent as a conference. I mean, that seems like a lifetime ago. But that's not, not too far ago where, you know, it was like, well, Amazon might not make it, its only for developers. Enterprisers do their own thing. Now it's like, it's all about the Enterprise. How are Enterprise customers evolving with you guys? Because they're all seeing the benefit of replatforming. But as they refactor, how has Red Hat evolved with that trend and how have you helped Amazon? >> Yeah, so as we mentioned, Enterprisers really across the globe are adopting a Hybrid Cloud Strategy. But, Hybrid actually isn't just about the infrastructure. So, its certainly the infrastructure where these Enterprisers are running these applications is increasingly becoming Hybrid as you move from data center to multiple public clouds and out to the Edge. But the Enterprisers application portfolios are also Hybrid, right? It's a Hybrid mix of very traditional monolithic and tier type applications. But also new cloud native services that have either been built from scratch, or as you mentioned, existing applications have been refactored. And then they're moving beyond the applications, as I mentioned to make better use of data. Also evolving their processes for how they build, deploy, and manage, leveraging, CI/CD and GitOps and so forth. So really for us it's, how do you help Enterprises bring all that together, right? Manage this Hybrid infrastructure that's supporting this Hybrid portfolio of applications that really help them evolve their processes. We've been working with Enterprises on these types of challenges for a long time. And we're now partnering with Amazon to do the same in terms of our joint product and service offerings. >> Talking about the RHEL evolution. I mean, because that's the bread and butter for Red Hat. It has been there for a long time. OpenShift again, making argument earlier, I mentioned the bets you guys made with Kubernetes, for instance, and it's all been made with all the right moves. So I love ROSA. You got me sold on that. RHEL though has been the tried and true steady workhorse. How has that evolved with workloads? >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think when customers were at the stage, when they were wondering, if well, can I use AWS to solve my problem, or should I use AWS to solve my problem? Our focus was largely on kind of technical enablement. Can we keep up with the pace of new hardware that Amazon is rolling up? Can we ensure that consistency with the on-premise and off-premise? And I think now we're starting to shift focus into really differentiating RHEL on the AWS platform. Again, integrating natively with AWS services, making it easier to operate in AWS. And a good example of this is using tools like Red Hat Insights, which we announced, I guess, about a year ago. Which is now included in every Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscription. Using tools like Insights in order to give customers advice on maybe potential problems that are coming up, helping customer solve them. Can the customers identify problems before they happen? Helping them with performance problems. And again, having additional tools like that, additional cloud-based tools, makes RHEL as easy to use on the Cloud despite all the complexity of all the redeploying, refactoring, microservices, there is now a proliferation of infrastructure options, and to the extent that RHEL can be the thing that is consistent, solid, reliable, secure, just as customers are getting in, then we can make customer successful. >> You know, Joe, we talked about this last time we were chatting, I think Red Hat Summit or Ansible Fest, I forget which event it was, but we were talking about how modern application developers at the top of the stack just want to code. They want to write some code, and now they want the infrastructure's code, AKA DevOps, DevSecOps, but as this trend of moving up the stack continues to be a big theme at re:Invent, that requires automation. That requires a lot of stuff that happened under the covers. Red Hat is at the center of all this action from historical perspective, pre-existing Enterprises before Cloud now, during Cloud, and soon to be Cloud Scale, how do you see that evolving? Because how are customers shaping their architecture? Cause this is distributed computing in the cloud. It's essentially, we've seen this moving before, but now at such a scale where data, security, these are all new elements. How do you talk about that? >> Yeah, well, first of all, got to mention, Linux is a given right. Linux is going to be available in every environment, data center, Public Cloud, Edge. Linux combined with Linux containers and Kubernetes, that's the abstraction like abstracting the applications away from the infrastructure. And now it's all about how do you build on top of that to bring that automation that you mentioned. So, we're very focused on helping customers really build fully automated end to end deployment pipelines, so they can build their applications more efficiently. They can automate the continuous integration and deployment of those applications into whatever Cloud or Edge footprint they choose. And that they can promote across environments. Because again, it's not just about developing the applications, it's about moving them all the way through to production where their customers are relying on those services to do their work and so forth. And so that's what we're doing is, you know, obviously I think, Linux is a given, Linux, Containers, Kubernetes. Those decisions have been made and now it's a matter of how can we put that together with the automation that allows them to accelerate those deployments out to production so customers can take advantage of them? >> You know, Gunnar, we were joking in theCUBE. I was old enough to remember we used to install Linux on a server back in the day. Now a lot of these young developers never actually have to install the software and do some of those configurations 'cause it's all automated now. Again, the commoditization and automation trend, abstraction layers, some say, is a good thing. So how do you see the evolution of this DevOps movement with the partnership with AWS going forward? What types of things are you working on with Amazon Web Services and what kind of offerings can customers look forward to? >> Yeah, sure. So, I mean, it used to be that as you say, Linux was something that you managed with a mouse and keyboard. And I think it's been quite a few years since any significant amount of Linux has been managed with a mouse and a keyboard. A lot of it is scripts, automation tools, configuration management tools, things like this. And the investments we've made both in RHEL and in specifically RHEL on AWS is around enabling RHEL to be more manageable. And so, including things like something we call System Roles. So these are Ansible modules that kind of automate routine system's administration tasks. We've made investments in something called Image Builder. And so this is a tool that allows customers to kind of compose the operating system that they need, create a blueprint for it, and then kind of stamp out the same image, whether it's an ISO image, so you can install it on-premise or an AMI so we can deploy it in AWS. So again, the problem used to be helping customers package and manage dependencies and that kind of old world, three and a half-inch floppy disc kind of Linux problems. And now we've evolved towards making Linux easier to deploy and manage at a grand scale whether you're in AWS or whether you're On premise. >> Joe, take us through the Hybrid story. I know obviously success with OpenShifts Managed Service on AWS. What's the update there for you? What are customers expecting this re:Invent and what's the story for you guys? >> Yeah, so, you know, the OpenShift Managed Services business this is the fastest growing segment of our business. We're seeing lots of new customers. And again, bringing new customers, I think for both Red Hat and AWS through this service. So, we expected to hear from customers at re:Invent about what they're doing. Again, not only with OpenShift and our Red Hat solutions, but really with what they're building on top of those service offerings, of those solutions to sort of bring more value to their customers. To me, that's always the best part of re:Invent is really hearing from customers. And when we all start going there in person again, to actually be able to meet with them one-on-one, whether it's in person or virtual and so forth. So, looking forward to that. >> Well, great to have you guys on theCUBE. Congratulations on all success. The Enterprise continues to adopt more and more Cloud which benefits all the work you guys have done both on the RHEL side, and as you guys modernize with all these great services and managed services continues to be the center of all the action. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Red Hat's partnership with AWS evolving as Cloud scale Edge, all distributed computing, all happening at large scale. This is theCUBE with CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat SUMMIT 2018, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We are here live in San Francisco at Moscone West. This is theCube's exclusive coverage of Red Hat SUMMIT 2018. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCube. This week John Troyer, guest analyst, he's the co-founder of TechReckoning, an advisory and consulting firm around community. Our next guest Matt Hicks, Senior Vice President of Engineering at Red Hat. He's going to give us all the features, and specs of the road map, and all the priorities. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey, thanks guys. >> John: He's like, "I'm not." >> So thanks for comin' on, obviously a successful show for you guys, congratulations. >> Matt: Thank you Paul Cormier was on earlier talking about some of the bets you guys made and it's all open source, so those bets are all part of the community, with the community. But certainly there's a big shift happening, we're seeing it now with containers, and Kubernetes really showing the way, giving customers clear line of sight of where things are startin' to fall in the stack. Obviously you got infrastructure and application development all under a DevOps kind of concept, so congratulations. >> Thank you, thank you, it's been fun, it's been, I think Paul shared this a couple weeks, we started OpenShift in 2011, so it's pretty cool to be here now, 2018, and just see how far that's come in terms of how many customers using it, how successful they've been with it. So that's, it's been great. >> Yeah we always like to talk on theCube, we love talkin' to product people and engineers because we always say the cloud is like an operating system. It's just all over the place, decentralized network, distributing computing, these are concepts that have been around. A lot of the Red Hat DNA comes from systems, you have SELinux operating system, that you offer for free but also have services around it. It's a systems problem as we look at the cloud, cloud economics. So when you go look at some of the product and engineering priorities, how do you guys keep that goin'? What are some of the guiding principles that you guys have with your team? Obviously open-source, being in up-stream projects, but as you guys have to build this out in realtime, what are some of the principles that you guys have? >> That's a great, that's a great question. I'll try to cover it on two areas. I think the first for us is workload compatibility, where you get down into the, building that new apps is great, it's fun, a lot of people can do it, and that's an exciting area. The customers also, they have to deal with apps they built over 10 plus years, and so in everything we design, we try to make sure we can address both of those use cases. I think that's one of the reasons, yeah we talk about OpenShift and how coupled it is to RHEL and Linux. It's for that you can take anything that runs on RHEL, run it in a container on OpenShift, stateful, not stateful. That's one really key design principle. The other one, and this we've actually experienced ourselves, of the roles and responsibilities separation. We run an OpenShift host environment publicly, I joke, like anyone that gives me an email address, I'll run their code and my operations team doesn't have to know what's inside of the containers. They have a really clear boundary which is make the infrastructure infinitely available for them, and know that you can run anything on that environment. So that separation, you know when customers talk about DevOps, and getting to agile, I think that's almost as critical as the technology itself, is letting them be able to do that. >> Yeah, that's been a real theme here at the show, I've certainly noticed. Sure there were technology demos up on stage, but also a lot of talk about culture, about process or anti-planning maybe, or you know helping people. The role of Red Hat with OpenShift and the full stack all the way down is bigger now than it was, just when it was just Linux. So I mean, is it you and your team, I mean your in engineering as you work with the open source communities, surely it seems like you're having to deal with a much broader scope of responsibilities. >> Yeah, that's true. I started in Red Hat when it was just Linux and part of it is, you know Linux is big, and it's complex, and that in and of itself is a pretty broad community. But these days it is, we get to work with customers that are transforming their business and that touches everything from how they're organizationally structured, how we make teams work together, how I make the developers happy with their rate of innovation and the security team still comfortable with what they're changing. I love it, like it is, you know and we open source at our core, so I fell like, I'm an open source guy. I always have been. You're seeing open source drive a much wider scope of change then I ever have before. >> Let's talk about functionality product-wise, 'cause again we interviewed Jim Whitehurst yesterday and we had Denise Dumas on as well, on the RHEL side, and we talked about security. These things going on, and with OpenShift, and with Kubernetes, and containers, it makes your job harder. You got to do more right? So talk about what does that mean for you guys and how does that translate to the customer impact because it's more complicated. There's abstraction layers that are abstracting away the complexity. The complexity is not going away, it's just being abstracted away. This is harder on engineering. How are you handling that and what's your approach? >> So I've looked at it as a great opportunity for us. I've been working with Linux for a long time and I was a big fan when we introduced SELinux, and for a long time moving from traditional Linux hosting to operations teams wanting to turn on SELinux, it's been a really tough climb. It's, it'll break things, and they're not comfortable with it. They know they need that layer of security, but turning it on has been a challenge. Then go to cgroups, or different namespaces, and they're not going to get there. With OpenShift, the vast majority of OpenShift deployments, under the covers we run with SELinux on by default, customize policies, everything's in control groups, containers uses Linux namespaces. So you get a level of workload isolation that it was unimaginable you know five, 10 years ago, and I love that aspect, 'cause you start with one aspect of security, you get much, much stronger. So it's our ability to, you know we know all the levers and knobs in Linux itself, and we get to turn 'em all and pull 'em all so, >> I want to put you on the spot, I want to, and it's not an insult to you guys at all. But we've heard some hallway conversations. You know just in a joking way 'cause everyone loves Linux, open source, we all love that. But they say, nothings perfect either. No software actually runs all the time great. So one customer said, I won't say the name, "When OpenShift fails, it fails big." Meaning there's, it's very reliable but it's taking on a lot of heaving lifting. There's a lot of things going on in there, 'cause that's, 'cause it's Linux, when it breaks, it breaks a lot, and I know you're tryin' to avoid that. But my point is, is that just as these are important components. How do you make that completely bullet proof? How do you guys stay on top of it so that thinks don't break? I'm not saying they do all the time. I'm just saying it's common. It was more an order of magnitude kind of thing. >> Yeah, yeah, no, well I think it's a coupla things. So we invested in OpenShift Online and OpenShift Dedicated and those were new for Red Hat, and for running hosting environments, so we could learn a lot of the nuances of how do you, OpenShift Online is roughly a single environment, how do we make that never break as a whole. A user might do something in their app and make their app break. How do we not make the whole break? The second challenge I think we've hit is just skills in the market of it's not necessarily an easy system there are lots of moving pieces there. The deal with Azure and the partnership there, having managed service offerings I think is really going to help users get into, I have a highly available environment, I don't have to worry about SED replication or those components but I can still get the benefits. And then I think over time as people learn the technology, they know how to utilize it well, we'll see, we'll see less and less of the it catastrophically failed because I didn't know that I could make it highly available. Those are always painful to me, where it's you know, >> John: That's education. >> Yeah >> So Matt, there's a clear conversation here. Very clarity of roles and responsibilities even in the stack. I think even as recently as a year or two ago, people were having conversations about the role of OpenStack, versus Kubernetes, and you were getting kind of weird, like what's on top of what? And even in terms of, you know other parts of the stack, I mean here it's clear, very clear, you know OpenStack is about infrastructure, OpenShift you know on top of it, and even in terms of virtualization, containers versus VMs. The conversation this year seems more clear. As an engineer, you know and an engineering leader, were the, did the engineering teams rolling their eyes going well we knew how this was going to work out all along, or did you all also kind of come along on that journey the last couple years? >> I think seeing the customer use cases refined a little bit while education builds those has been great. We always, like we're engineers, we like clear separation and what each products good at, so for us it's fantastic. You know OpenStack is great at managing metal. One of my favorite demonstrations was using OpenStack Director to on a, you know boot machines, put OSs on 'em, and leave OpenShift running, and be able to share network and storage clients with OpenStack. Those things are, you know they're great for me as an engineering lead because we're doing that once as well as we can, but it's nice in engineering if you get to optimize each side of the stack. So I think I have seen the customers understanding, as they've done more with OpenStack, and they've done more with OpenShift, they know which product they want to use, what for. That has helped us accelerate the engineering work towards it. >> You mention skills, skills gaps, and skills in general. How is the hiring going? Is there a new kind of DevOps rockstar out there? Is there a new kind of profile? Is there pieces of the stack that you want certain skills for? Is there generalism? Are the roles in engineering changing? If you could just add some color to that conversation around, you know cause we're talkin' about engineering now. It used to be called software engineering when I graduated, and then you became a developer. I don't know which ones better, but you know to me this is real engineering going on, which is using software development techniques. So what's the skills situation? >> For us I think, it is nice that you're seeing a lot of gravitation to Linux at the host level, and Kubernetes has helped, just at the distributed system level, so obviously skills there play pretty well in general. I would say what we have seen is there has been a stronger increase in having operational skills as well as development skills, and it's a spectrum. You're still going to have operational experts and algorithmic experts, but the blended role where you do know what it takes to run an application in production to some extent, or you do know something about infrastructure and development. I certainly look for that on our teams because that's, where customers I've seen struggle for years and years is in the handoff in the shift between, everyone can write functional apps, they usually struggle getting them into production. And it's really neither teams fault, it's in that translation and these platforms help bridge that. People that have some skills on either side have become incredibly valuable in that. >> John: So that's were the DevOps action is right, the overlay. >> It really is yeah. >> So thinking about network as the networking growth with DevOps. DevOps has always been infrastructure as code. And it all comes to, there's to many, many, I don't want to talk about it. It's always the network that gets beat on the most, I need better latency. And so networking software to find networking is not a new concept, self-defined data centers are out there. What's new in networking that you could point to that's part of this new wave? >> Two geeky things that might not have been noticed. One is the work we've done on Ansible networking has been stunningly popular to me, and that was just this simplicity of Ansible just needs us to sage in a minimal set of dependencies. Most switches out there can actually, they have SSH running, and having automation of switches in the actual gear itself was surprisingly not unified. And Ansible was able to fit that niche where you could remotely configure switches and that has grown and exploded. Because if you think of the, I'm going to do a DevOps workflow but now I need to actually change routing or bleed something, you're often talking to switches, and being able to couple that in has been, it has been fun to watch, so I've loved that aspect. The other portion when we combine OpenShift on OpenStack the courier work which we've talked about some, is, you know OpenShift often described as it consumes infrastructure that OpenStack provides, and the one exception was usually the networking tier. It was like we have to run an overlay network on it. When we run OpenShift on OpenStack it can actually utilize OpenStack's networking to be able to try that instead of doing it's own overlay. That is critical at the larger scale. >> John: So the policy comes in handy there is that, or configurations, where's the benefit? >> Both on network topology, which do you have two teams that are building different structures that may collide in the night. So it gets it from two teams down to one, and then the second is just the knock controls in isolation, it's done once. It's been nice for me on the engineering side where we'd put a ton of effort in the OpenStack community, we put a ton of effort in Kubernetes and the OpenShift communities, and we're able to pretty nicely combine those. We know 'em both really well. >> So take us through some inside baseball at Red Hat. What's going on internally within' your group. I want to probe on developer and software engineers productivity. If the quote DevOps works, the test is the freeing up their time from doing mundane tasks, and you got cool things like you said about the network things, pretty positive. This is going to free up some intellectual capital from engineering. So okay if that's true, I'm assuming it's true, if it's not then say it's not true, but it sounds like it's probably going to be true for you. What are your guys working on, what's next? So can you share some of what, 'cause you guys are doing your own thing, you're using your own software. Is that intellectual capital being freed up on the developers side? Are they doing some more programming? Are you seeing some more creativity? What are they doing with that free time, free time, extra intellectual cycles? >> All our excesses, I'll tell Paul that. He was up before me. Like, Ops team barely has to work anymore. >> There in there clipping coupons at the beach you know. It's all running, we're busy. >> So a good creative example, and this was I think the second demo we showed. Red Hat Insights has been in the market for a while and that was our, can we glean enough information from systems to get ahead of a support issue, and this year we showed the, it's not just known fixes, you know we match it to a knowledgebase article. But can we interpret fixes from peer analysis and you know machine learning type techniques? That's a classic example where we use the creativity and free time, and say you know what that stack internally runs on OpenShift, running on OpenStack, using Red Hat storage, and we're applying some of, you know TensorFlow and other capabilities to do that. That was probably my favorite example at SUMMIT where if we weren't getting more efficient at what we worked on, we wouldn't of been able to stand up that stack ourselves, much less execute to it, and show it live in SUMMIT, doing the analysis across a hybrid cloud. >> But this is the whole point of DevOps. This the whole purpose, being highly productive, to use those intellectual cycle times to build stuff, solve problems. >> Yeah absolutely. >> Not provision servers or networks. Awesome, well thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. >> Matt: Thank you guys. >> What's the priorities for you guys this year? What's the focus? Share your plans for the year. >> You know I think it's similar to the last thing we showed today. We really want to make customers feel like they can deploy hybrid cloud. Whether it's compute, applications, they have the services they need, down to storage, it works. They're on premise. They know we're going to have the best combination we can. This year is a stay ahead of people on that path, make sure their successful with it. >> We'll see you guys at OpenStack SUMMIT, Vancouver. Thanks for comin' on, Matt Hicks, Senior Vice-President of Engineering at Red Hat. I'm John Furrier, John Troyer, Stay with us, we're day three of three days of live coverage here in San Francisco, Red Hat SUMMIT 2018. Stay with us, we'll be right back after this short break. (digital music)

(indistinct chatter, electronic intro music) >> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's the Cube! Covering Red Hat summit 2018, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hello and welcome back this is the Cube's exclusive coverage here in San Francisco, California at Moscone West, I'm John Furrier with John Troyer co-founder of Tech Reckoning and our next guest is Joe Fitzgerald, vice president and general manager of the management and business unit at Red Hat, home of Ansible, among other great capabilities, welcome to the Cube, thanks for stopping by. Red Hat summit 2018's happening all the buzz is all about Kubernetes, containers, obviously Linux, and all the action really transforming the digital journey of customers. I mean, cloud scale: check, data: check, (chuckling) new applications: check, a lot of interesting things now, Kubernetes' workload, multi cloud, all kind of coming together, what's going on for you guys in the show, 'cause you know honestly management, operations, automation, these are all things that are data driven, your thoughts? >> Joe: Yeah, so I'm responsible for management and automation, and so all these technologies that you're hearing about, Red Hat is helping people digitally transform, right, so a lot of the technologies you mentioned, it turns out that these envorironments really require automation to move fast, right, and management is essential to keep these really complex environments up and running, and secure, which is a big issue for people. >> Furrier: IT operations has been around for a while but it's always been, like, managing the data center, but now you've got a lot of things going on. Management, operations, and data is changing the world because now you can apply automation to it, what's a customer to do here? Because a lot of people are recasting, and I won't say replatformizing, but they're definitely looking at a global, cloud native, with containers, legacy is taken care of, how do I instrument this? What is the approach that you guys see customers taking from Red Hat's perspective? >> Joe: Well there's a couple of principles, automation is huge and it's entering because automation on the front edge, getting the containers and cloud services, automation is huge, but we also see automation for people to reduce the burden of their legacy environments, by using automation to free up resources and people, and money that they can put into their front end, you know, digital transformation activities. Right? The other thing besides automation that we're driving is analytics based operations, because these environments, once you build them, and start operating them, get very complex very fast, right? So it's beyond somebody sitting in front of a network console waiting for red lights to come up on the dashboard and reacting. It really has to be automated, and they have to get a lot of insights into what's going on. >> Furrier: It's an interesting challenge, I want to get into the hybrid cloud for a second, because before we get into hybrid cloud challenges, automation is a double edged sword, you can automate something and all of a sudden you could have a memory leak and you don't even know about it, because it's self healing! There's a lot of automation going on, so the analytics have to be smarter. This why we've been hearing this come up a lot, which is 'Okay, I need visibility not just into what's happening, what's breaking, but what's going on beyond the automation.'. These are new dynamics, what's the approach there? How are you guys looking at that trend? Is there any products out there to solve this challenge? >> Joe: So we've had product in our portfolio, it's Red Hat insights, which is a predictive analytics based offering that we've had, and basically what it does is it analyzes our customer's systems and it looks across, you know, sort of a broad set of settings and processes, and configurations and things, and basically can actually tell them 'Hey, these systems are at risk, they're likely to either have performance issues or a crash, or they have security vulnerabilities', and actually tell them what's going to happen, and what they need to do. So that's called Red Hat Insights, as the name implies gives you a very, you know, deep insight into your systems. We've recently tied that to automation, to say 'This is what's wrong with your systems, would you like us to automate and correct them or remediate them?'. Now I can tell you, having been around automation for a while most people don't trust automation. Think about the first time your going to get in your self driving car, and you're going to go 'Wait a minute, I'm going to not have a steering wheel or brake pedal or something?'. That's, like, terrifying right? Automation in IT's the same way, it's like 'Wait, I'm going to have this system do what to my production systems?', so there's usually this cycle where it's like, show me what you're going to do with the automation. Let me get sort of comfortable and verify it, and then let me push the button and then automate it, that's a natural cycle. >> Troyer: Lets go down one level from that and talk about hybrid cloud, so, we see a lot of examples of that, hybrid cloud, multi cloud, on-prem with OpenStack, you know, out in the public cloud with OpenShift, you know, multiple clouds at once. So, you've got your self driving cloud now. One layer down, what do enterprises and IT operators need to look at from a governance and an operations perspective? What are things they need to be worried about if they're going to be running a multi cloud scale operation like that? >> Joe: So let me use the self driving car analogy. Lets say you bought a self driving car from three different car manufacturers. Okay, the instrumentation and the hardware, the software, is all going to be vastly different, but you're supposed to operate those things at a consistent level. So think about a hybrid cloud, all these clouds have different instrumentation, how they get monitored and managed, and the kind of events they generate >> Troyer: The cost models. >> The cost models, all those things, so it's not like you can just write a simple piece of code and say 'Oh just monitor these things' or 'Just make sure they're secure' or compliant, you have to actually instrument into each of the cloud particular, you know, instrumentations, right? And then try to automate that, so one of the things we do is we provide sort of consistent way for people to manage what's otherwise a pretty complex heterogeneous hybrid cloud environment. >> Furrier: And how's that going? Can you give us some anecdotal insight into how that's going? >> Joe: Well it's going very well, we have a number of customers here at summit who are talking about, sort of, their production journeys with Red Hat. Transforming, whether it's on OpenStack for private cloud or OpenShift for containers, or using our middleware services or integration services, and then using our management and automation to actually deploy those things, keep them secure, keep them operational, and run them at scale, it's those huge success points. >> Furrier: Joe, Ansible's been a very successful acquisition for Red Hat, what's the status or the future plans, any updates on Ansible? Its role, its relevance, and so forth? >> Joe: So Ansible's a great story, so Ansible was an open source company, very smart people, very innovative technology, strong community. Red Hat acquired the company about 2 1/2 years ago, and one of the things that we did was we didn't screw it up, right? A lot of times big companies acquire small companies and they basically crush the innovation and they kill whatever the unique thing that company was doing. In this case what we've done is, because Red Hat's so good at open source, and we've actually nurtured that community. We've actually helped that community grow, virally. So the amount of contributors to the community has grown significantly, the amount of integration activities, interest in that community has grown wildly over the past 2 1/2 years. So I think our biggest thing is, we let it do what it's really good at, and we've nurtured it, so we've taken a really smart team with some great technology and we've amplified that with the Red Hat, you know, sort of capabilities. >> Furrier: What was the secret sauce on that? 'Cause this is a really, kind of, hard thing to do. Acquisitions can get mangled a bit, and founders leave, and what did you guys do specifically to not screw it up? Was it leave them alone? Invest some tech? You mentioned nurturing, what specifically did you guys do, looking back at that, that was the secret to that success? >> Joe: So I, having been personally acquired three times, right? I joined Red Hat through acquisition over five years ago, so I've been here a while. When I did the Ansible acquisition I wanted to make sure that what we didn't do was break anything, so a lot of times, in acquisitions, they tend to take the new company apart, and they say 'Okay, marketing moves over to corporate marketing, engineering moves over here, product management moves over there.' and they sort of take the transmission apart, and then they wonder why the engine's not running anymore, why the car's not running anymore. And so the first thing was: don't break anything. Let's understand it, let's understand how it fits in. I also think there was a good culture match. There was a good impedance match, for the fact that they were smart open source guys. So the Red Hat way was, like >> Furrier: So they got Red Hat? >> Yeah, they got Red Hat, and a number of them were ex Red Hatters, I mean, we have a lot of Red Hatters that go off and start up very interesting projects because of their background, and sometimes they come home. And this was that kind of case. >> Furrier: That's good, that's a great practice. I've got to say I've seen many acquisitions mangled, you know, it's the same exact thing, just go to the playbook, they tear them apart. >> Joe: Yeah it doesn't usually end well. You know, when large company acquires small company. >> So I'm curious how you all are looking at the role of the IT admin/operator in this new world, this new cloud data world we're going to, you know, the people formerly known as sysadmins, you know, I think they thought about automation a lot with maybe day zero, like setting things up. But now we've got day one and beyond, you know, we've got to run these clouds. Does IT become full of SRE's and operators? How are you dealing with your community and training them and teaching them how to go to work with a new environment? >> Joe: Yeah so the world has gotten significantly more complicated for those folks, right? In the good old days they were sort of segmented, maybe, into compute, network, and storage teams, and now you've got like, the public cloud team, and the private cloud team, and the container team, and the different teams, right? So the complexity has been amplified, right? What we're trying to do is, we're trying to reduce that complexity by things like Ansible, that basically can automate across those domains. So we introduced Ansible network automation, you can automate storage, you can automate compute, you can do stuff in private cloud, physical servers, different layers with the same set of tools. That means that a person, instead of being a generalist, or specialist, can be what Gartner calls a versitalist. They can actually be good at a number of domains, and in this case with a single tool set, without having to learn five different tools. >> Furrier: Joe, great to have you on the Cube. Thanks for the insights, great to hear your perspective, final question for you; AI, machine learning, always a big part of analytics, are you guys doing anything there? What's the update on what's coming? Because Automation, you've got to love machine learning, got to love some of this software. You guys doing anything in particular, notable, that you want to share? That's worth highlighting? >> Joe: Yeah we showed some stuff in our keynote here, in terms of demos, but we're really driving towards algorithmic IT operations. We're going to keep applying analytics, building towards machine learning and AI for these complex environments. We have some really smart people internally, data scientists and experts, we have a lot of expertise because we're building some of these platforms, and the new technologies. We have a lot of customers, they trust us, they share data with us, so we're really looking forward to advancing this sort of AI ops discipline. >> And the trend as your friend, the winds at your back, whatever you want to call it, you see in Kubernetes, you see in the kind of decomposition of services down to the very low granular level, throw some instrumentation on it, you now have data, data's good right? >> Joe: Speed of transformation is getting faster. >> Joe Fitzgerald, Vice President and General Manager of the management business unit here at Red Hat, on the Cube, sharing his insights here in the Cube, I'm John Furrier with John Troyer, stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (outro music)