[Music] from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM hi everybody this is David Lally you're watching the cube and our multi day coverage of the IBM think Digital 20/20 experience the event experienced wall-to-wall coverage prasad saccharine is here he's the senior managing director at Accenture technology great to see you thanks for coming on for Sun and thank you for having me there pleasure to be on very welcome so um I'm looking at your bio here you're responsible for the relationship with with IBM Red Hat so I'm interested in that and you're driving the Accenture intelligent cloud and engineering practice so we got a lot to talk about here let's start with Red Hat obviously it's probably the most important in at least new part of IBM so here you're in the right spot what's going on with with with Red Hat these days in your practice there oh yeah so you know Red Hat is a extremely important part of our practice I am very much focused on what Accenture does within the hybrid cloud space for our clients and red hat with OpenShift is you know the most powerful platform that there is out there today in helping our clients both innovate in the new as they expand in what they're doing digitally as well as move and modernize some of the equipment they have you know from existing history you know I went when the Red Hat deal was completed I did a little braking analysis my sort of weekly editorial segment and I said you know this this Red Hat acquisition openshift is the linchpin and I went right there right we just went it was all about application modernization and hybrid cloud bringing that cloud experience to on-prem or cross clouds and so that it was always my take you know there was a lot of sort of marketing around cloud generally but but more specifically it's a to me it was always about that application modernization so I'm curious as to how your your clients have responded to that and you know whether or not I'm sort of on the right track there yeah I think there are multiple factors I mean if you look at just broadly the areas I think there are three areas the first as you correctly said there is application modernization so our clients are looking at the amount of technical debt that they have and their legacy systems they're looking to you know modernize the right parts of their legacy estate you know one looking at the trade-off around the costs as well as the performance so Red Hat and open ship really gives them the platform that allows them to do that and make take their journey forward from an app mod perspective onto the clouds and you know the various public clouds the second area is actually in greenfield development so as clients are building new applications they want to be able to you know build applications that they can run across you know multiple platforms whether it's private cloud or public cloud and particularly in areas like Europe I think this is particularly significant and we can talk about that in some more detail and then the third area which is emerging as you know is is the whole area of edge and IOT which is going to actually move a lot of the computer way from the central clouds into the into the edge and you know obviously open ship is going to play a big part there as well bringing all all the three parts of the enterprise as it were you know the edge and the cloud as well as all of the legacy and private estates that exist today so to talk more about Europe what's going on there is that a GDP or a related thing a country you know in country may keep the data in country what is the issue there yeah it's a little bit of board I you know if you look at particularly financial services but certainly other industries as well the regulator's are extremely focused on making sure that you know the right balance is being struck even if you're using public clouds you know they are going to talk about the amount of public cloud usage that can be for every application the various applications that have to be actually running on a private cloud estate so in a scenario like that you will really want to be able to build applications that you can run across you know multiple different platforms and you know open ship gives you the answer to be able to do that to be able to you know have a policy based approach where you know certain workloads can be working on your private cloud and certainly you can move it out to you know public cloud when the need arises result explain the edge angle is that about bringing a programmability or the cloud model to the data at the edge you can explain that more detail sure sure and you know the edge and IOT and the Internet of Things impacts different industries differently you know I can talk about you know since we mentioned financial services let me bring up insurance for example you look at autonomous you know cars and you know self driven vehicles and so on as their going to change daily life what happens in those cases is that you want a lot of that data to be processed at the vehicle level so at the edge rather than a lot of processing happening across the network you know up at the central crowd and then coming back down to the vehicle because the latency just doesn't allow these these sorts of applications to happen you look at multiple industries that are really being impacted by the edge and so as that starts to become more prevalent and about 50 to 60 percent of a lot of this compute moves off of the central cloud through various education what you really want to have is like the versions of these platforms running on those particular devices and the rest of it running either on your private or your central clouds so you have to be able to use and move a lot of these applications which are container base you know platform you know Ginni Rometty now arvind talked about how the only 20% of the workloads have moved to the cloud it's they're really difficult to move workloads that are sort of the next next wave how do you see that evolving from Accenture perspective I think I think you have I mean you get your technology agnostic right I mean you really you know you're not a purveyor of hardware or software and so how do you see as a kind of a quasi-independent here how do you see that that hybrid cloud that cloud journey playing out yeah I think you know the we have the same number by the way I mean we see about when we talk to our clients and we've surveyed several CEOs and CIOs the number we we arrive at is that about 20 percent I think of workloads having moved to the cloud now a lot of that has been SAS based you know they've taken a lot of functions that could really be satified so to speak now comes the part around really taking portions of your legacy estate that you need to move to the cloud whether you're going to do it as a pass or an i as you know doesn't really matter and then you know weave into that the requirements around data privacy around compliance around high performance etc which might either take you to a private cloud type of orientation or take it to various public clouds so there's a lot of that work be done so what we are doing with many of our clients is really working with them taking a lot of our tools we have a tool that that we use called my nav which allows you to really assess a client's legacy estate and figure out you know what part of it that really we should be modernizing and which of the partners brilliant that we need to be working with to be able to modernize that aspect in concurrence with that is all of the new development that's happening on the cloud native development which is naturally glowing going into you know a lot of these public as well as private cloud so a lot of that work the next you know let's say 30 to 40 percent over the next few years is going to be a lot of work that happens and that's going to be heavier lifting as compared to you know the initial 20% that is half of it well heavy heavy lifting is kind of your area of expertise and we think about Accenture deep industry expertise global presence I mean as does IBM empiricist essaouira your relationship with IBM what what's the partnership like maybe you could describe sort of where you guys complement each other I know you compete in certain segments but where do you complement each other you know like you pointed out earlier Dave you know we are we're very much technology agnostic we have been on a public cloud journey for the last several years and really built our skills and our you know support around that what the hyper scale is we're doing in the market as hybrid cloud has evolved over the last you know couple of years especially we see that open shift and Red Hat and IBM you know play a big part in you know in this part of the journey as well as IBM public cloud we see you know the use of IBM public cloud continue to increase in the market so all of these you know companies I think play a very important role in what our clients want to do to take their journeys to the cloud forward so you know we're trying to piece all of that together to to have the right you know solutions to our clients and really brings together I think the aspects one is you know country specific requirements the second is the specific industry that you're talking about and you know the third is technology so really it's a it's an intersection of region technology as well as industry it's something that you know we're naturally good at we have several clients where we do a lot of you know a lot we have deep existing relationships and we certainly partner with IBM very closely we are the largest system integrator of all of IBM software products globally outside of IBM themselves and we've been that maintaining that status for many years we've been doing the same on the Red Hat side so as IBM and Red Hat come together I think at many of our clients we're a very natural consultant and systems integrator for or IBM rather we haven't talked much about multi-cloud this week I know Stu minimun my colleague has been hosting the Red Hat summit and it talked a lot about it but again I want to tap you're sort of you know that you're agnostic brain you look at the landscape and you've got different suppliers coming at it from different angles right AWS won't use the term via Microsoft obviously has a good story there you know Google with anthos etc VMware wants its piece of the pie iBM is kind of to me one of the most interesting with red hat of course because not only does it have its own cloud but it's very aggressive around supporting multiple clouds it's it it seems to be you know intent on doing whatever the client wants clearly that's your business I wonder what you can share with us about your thoughts on on multi cloud specifically yeah absolutely I think you know multi cloud is certainly where a lot of our clients are at and they've started the multi cloud journey you know you know a few years ago they have gone with more than you know maybe one hyper scaler although they have had you know just few workloads perhaps in in in multiple of them and really focused on one of them but as they start increasing the percentage of work that they're doing within the within the clouds they start looking at a lot of these clouds for very specific reason and most of our clients end up using food with P public clouds and when I look at the public cloud certainly you mentioned all of them AWS Microsoft Azure Google you know to the GCP product as well as you know IBM with IBM's public cloud and then with OpenShift really being able to run across all of these public clouds allow you allows you to actually design you know micro services based applications that are containerized and you can you know pretty much run them across whichever cloud you want and this is where we really you know work with our clients to really understand their need and to help them with you know the specific clouds that we won't be working with and which applications really should reside where makes sense for them and like I said from a Europe perspective you know with gdpr etc I think that journey is a little bit you know further advanced than it is perhaps in other places other parts of the world but we're seeing you know much more use of multi-cloud in addition to of course sass and increase user way Superdog your role is global obviously not just yes not just us right pan-pan the world or is it US and Europe no it is its global so it's us Europe as well as what we call the growth market so it includes China then is that correct or yes yeah so okay so now you got Alibaba you know you're playing there that's yet another cloud and so and what your one of the roles that you play as a systems integrator and somebody who's you know trying to trust it is you help customers pick the right workload for the right you know infrastructure and make it work obviously and help them de-risk one of the things we've noted is you know going back to the 80/20 or 20 has moved 80 hasn't it's the hard stuff it's that a lot of that mission-critical stuff hasn't moved in mate may never move but some of it will it just seems to us that you know moving the mission critical workloads is very risky and so what you want to do is make sure that you D risk that maybe keep it on you know if it's an IBM mission-critical workload maybe IBM's got ways to keep it safe in the IBM cloud and you know cross connect them etc I wonder what your thoughts are on moving what has heretofore been hard to move workloads does it make sense to put them in the cloud or does it make sense to put a brick wall around them and leave them on Prem I know it depends but but but maybe you could frame that for us sure absolutely so we have you know a concept that we call digital decoupling and what that really entails is is to take a look at these monolithic applications that are running you know on the back end and then we look at certain speech ER extraction that you know you can you can perform take those features out especially things that will give you access to digital channels you know rewrite those applications containerize them and then be able to run them on on multiple clouds and we've been doing that with you know many clients for example you know large hotel chains where we've taken a lot of that functionality containerized it run it on public clouds and it's only the final commit after you go through the process of figuring out you know what kind of room do you want picking out the various features it's not till the final commit that that happens on the mainframe side so feature extraction through digital decoupling I think offers you tremendous offloading of a lot of those features as well as processing onto the public cloud certainly iBM is also looking at many in many ways in which they can move some of these core functions as well on to their public cloud so I think the journey continues like you said you know it may not be ever that you have a hundred percent of the processing that happens on the public cloud and again we have to take a look at the amount of work that there is the risk reward the cost that it will take and you know with the enormous amount of functionality that has to take place this is where we have to advise our clients on you know the journey as well as the order in which via TP for the landscape we talked earlier about edge you're talking about multiple clouds you've got on-prem you've got mission critical workloads and you mentioned you know containers people want portability of course containers are necessary ingredient of that portability but it's insufficient and so you just see complexity increasing as we as we proceed down this cloud journey you've got to secure those those those those containers and and micro services sometimes aren't so micro you've you've got to make them work across cloud so it seems to me that you guys and your your clients get a lot of work to do which is which is a good thing as long as they make the business case and it's adding value to the organization yeah absolutely and then this is where you know you take certain functions I think you have a lot of sass options particularly around certain things that you're doing that tend to be you know commoditized so to speak certain other functions where you don't need perhaps their elasticity either about offers so you can have you know past solutions that you can build more quickly but then you want other solutions that need to be more mission-critical more resilient and in certainly movement elastic and that's where you know you look at you know producing micro-services containerized applications that you can really burst across you know multiple clouds and so on so these are all part of the architectures that we're building designing and implementing a wrapper Versailles where can I go to get more info on this whole topic from you know a hybrid cloud perspective as well as a public cloud perspective we go to Accenture comm and you do go to the cloud section there's a lot of information as well as credentials and white papers that you'd be able to access and also gives you access to specific people that you can you know reach out to and contact and get for the information on what they've been able to do very interesting conversation prasad and it's great to see you guys working very closely with with IBM i love it two global companies deep industry expertise solving hard problems so thanks so much for coming with you Naruto thank you so much for doing this very welcome and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Volante and it's a wall-to-wall coverage of the IBM digital event experience around think 2020 we're right back right at this short break you're watching the Hume [Music] you

>>Bach from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS executive summit brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back and good morning. Welcome to the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit here at AWS reinvent. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by pre-saved Sanker and he is the senior managing director global lead intelligent cloud infrastructure. Welcome back on the queue. Thanks so much for coming on. And Larry soccer, global managing director infrastructure services domains and strategy. Thank you so much. So we're talking today about hybrid cloud, the best of both worlds. As we say on the cube. It's a multicloud world. But I want to start with you Prisaad. What is driving clients to move to the cloud? What are you hearing from CEOs? What keeps them up at night? >>So I think, you know, you've got to a point with our clients where they're really trying to get the power of the cloud to the enterprises. So there are multiple things that they're trying to do. First, they're trying to really get the innovation that cloud provides in driving their digital transformation. The second is taking advantage of the cost savings that cloud can provide. So there are multiple aspects of how they use cloud. The first would be using SAS type applications. So for example it is faults.com or Workday and things like that. The second is using the power of providers like AWS really to drive what they can do from cloud native perspective in building new applications. And the third is just taking existing applications that aren't legacy and either re hosting them or refactoring them as an adjusting them to some extent and then hosting them on again, clouds like AWS. So that is a multiyear journey that all our clients are on. And you know, as Accenture we're helping them identify what needs to go first, what needs to go next and help them in that journey. >>And what is, what is the compelling force? Is it that they want to save cut costs? Is it that they want to be more innovative and they view this innovation in the cloud as the key to it? >>It's a combination of both. It's innovation is absolutely number one. Secondly, it is speed to market. The ability to get your product out there very quickly is second and the third is at the end of the day, you know data centers are going to go away and we're going to all recite in the cloud in some form or fashion, whether it's public or private. And which is why this whole topic of hybrid and multi-cloud is becoming so important today. >>So Larry, why hybrid cloud though? Why? Why can't we just go all in on private and public? Sorry. >>Interesting. I mean the, the real driver and Prisaad touched on it there. The real driver to get to, to AWS and to, to the hyperscalers really is around the innovation cycles. You know the passes, the services that they can do and that drives innovation. The speed to, to get there as important, it gives you a way of quickly scaling, which you know, if I really want to build out an application fast, a great way to get there and is obviously the consumption economics. How do I shift from cap ex topics? So that's driving the cloud native that push into, into the wallet of public. At the same time, our clients do have a number of requirements that really make them look and rethink and figure out how to evolve their data centers first. The first ones were regulatory, so you think about when you were the pharmaceutical GXP compliance, HIPAA in the healthcare side of things, you know, GDPR, so I've got companies that regulate that regulatory. >>What was perceived as a barrier, particularly in some of the more difficult regulatory environment and while the public providers are really evolving and starting to get better regulatory posture is at the same time a lot of our clients were making investment and decide, Hey, how do I really build my private cloud? I'm another big driver that people continue to look at private clouds, whether they're in their data centers or increasingly moving Nikolas is to scale up architectures like high terabyte HANA. If I want a 64 terabyte HANA deployment, while while the AWS footprints get bigger and bigger, sometimes just performance and tuning for those high scale an environment is a big deal. Article article racks, a great example where it's not only do you have something in a highly tuned environment but be given, given some of the licensing arbitrage stuff, it makes it extremely difficult. >>And in a big part of it is data gravity. If I've got these big data sets, if you think about fraud analysis in Hadoop clusters for credit card processing, where I've got high terabyte HANA database, I've got 20 or 30 applications that need to access that data. I can't really put it over a wide area network due to latency. And you know, the cost of moving data around. So what you ultimately end up with is applications clustered around lakes, big pockets of data. And I think that's where we're ending up. And that will be across a hybrid architecture. So that's, we call it, you know, as you look at balancing your apps and your data across public private solutions. That's why we view hybrid as the way that most of our clients are going, given the scale and the amount of applications and data they have. So that's what we refer to as the best of both worlds for hybrid. >>So I saw you nodding a lot. Allow what he was saying for sod. How do you, I mean, as you said, it's a balancing act in terms of how you set your strategy. How do you recommend companies go about thinking in terms of how they allocate their, their cloud? >>Yeah, so I think, you know, we have particular really, really take an application centric approach. Um, you know, I'll go back a couple of years, uh, when our clients were really looking to, uh, really use the public cloud and then they've signed up with one or more public cloud providers and then they, you know, move some applications and then some of them have actually taken a step back. In fact, there's a very global investment bank that I've been working with, um, who, who are taking that approach initially. And now what they've done in working with us is taking a very application centric approach. So we studied their entire suite of applications, understand from a regulatory perspective, from a compliance perspective, from a perspective of security. And this is a global bank. So there are different rules in Europe versus the United States. And so on. So based upon all that we come up with an approach on ward should reside in a private cloud as opposed to orchard resided in a public cloud. >>And you know, obviously there are multiple providers that are reasons to go with more than one cloud from a public perspective, et cetera. So we advise them on that. And then once we're able to do that, then we chart the journey on, you know, what application gets moved and when, and certain applications are very important to them from a performance perspective and they need to scale up and so on. So in those cases, you know, we treat them differently in certain other application cases, you know, we moved them onto a pass and in some other cases, you know, we just move these application into new what's available from a SAS perspective. So really it's a very much an application centric approach on where the workloads, >>is it a living and breathing thing. I mean, we talk about cloud being this journey. It's not a destination. Does this change over time? I mean, it absolutely does. I mean, it's constantly evolving. You know? Did you date or patterns are coming out there? And it was interesting like if you have, a couple of years ago, all we talked about was the app. How are you going to modernize this six or seminars when you get re-imagined in there. But all of a sudden a lot of the conversation shifting, shifting to my data strategy, where did this data reside? Particularly as the data sets get larger and that's moving from what was very centralized in the public data centers into much more distributed architecture. So we see it evolving very quickly. And even with a single application, a great example with a global hotel, they had a reservation system that was strategic application running on an old IBM mainframe. >>They were finding it was just taking too long to get innovative and agile to really support the new mobile applications, their web channels. So they looked at the, Hey, if I were just re-imagine, rewrite this, you know, go put it up in Amazon hot, how long would it take? How much would it cost? They found it was even going to be two or three years and they didn't have the luxury to wait, so they basically wrap that application with API APIs. They expose it with microservices and then developed a cloud native front end with the database cache new technologies that they can now drop every three or four days. They can now get a new mobile application, so you've got agile delivery, they've still got the legacy stuff there. The data's still there now. Now when you go against their web and mobile application, you, you're actually browsing against that new cloud native, you know the database cache. >>When you look at rates and rooms, et cetera, it's only when you transact and reserve the room that it goes back to the main frame. So you agile delivery, they get a lot of the benefits there and then they can offload a lot of the processing on the mainframe. It's only read all the reads up front now and slowly deprecate that over time. Now they, they're now that very interesting hybrid deployment architectures. They, they have a container approach. This database caches, they have two clusters. Those containers running on private cloud, on VMware, and then one running in AWS so they're now can optimize across the public and or hybrid footprint. You know how they do this over the time they then look to evolve that application and started an introduce serverless. So starting to take advantage of Lambda. So there even within a single application you can see it's constantly evolving. They starting in an advantage of the next evolution. So the next one to move beyond containers into more serverless. >>So I mean you both have just given me terrific examples. Your years in financial services, years as a, as a hotel chain. How do you develop best practices? I mean when you're working with clients or really is it case by case? I mean you talked about the decisions and the allocation of cloud. Of course there are regulatory constraints for each company, but are there industry wide best practices? Absolutely. Absolutely. >>I do want to hear, sure. So I'll start with financial services as an example. So if you take the world of banking or insurance, there's obviously, you know, regulatory requirements, compliance requirements that they have to look at. And also if you look at, for example, in banking, a lot of it is very mainframe based. You know, they have very old core banking systems, which is not possible to really move all of that onto public cloud necessarily. And maybe the business case isn't even there. So we have to take a digital decoupling type of approach and figure out, you know, how do we take some of the best bits and then put that on public cloud while still keeping some of the major amount of data is still on the legacy side. So I think it's really an industry specific approach, which on top of which you have to layer on what the local requirements are. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so I spent a lot of work with the life sciences department ceuticals and GXP compliance rules the day there. So how did they start to, they started off, you know, how do we get to private clouds that look and feel a lot like public and then start to move and test the test the waters as they start to migrate into the AWS as a little world. So it is very regular industry specific. So we've, we basically developed a library of this is how you know, this is how you solve for banking, you know, the retail bank on a mainframe, how do I do similar pattern to that hotel front ends. Reinsurance is actually very similar to a lot of, lot of the logic on mainframe. It doesn't make sense to rewrite. There's not enough value in that if I can wrap it in microservices and move out. So that clouds, I mean their roadmaps, obviously every given the scale and complexity of our clients, everyone's going to be slightly different. But they're patterns that are very industry specific. And it gets getting even more interesting as we start to get in, move into IOT and edge. Because when you get into like the, the connected oil and gas or connected mine, all of a sudden it becomes extremely verticalized in industry and industry. >>So the hybrid Creek solves a lot of problems, but I imagine it also creates some other challenges too. What are the challenges and how do you counteract them? Do you want to start Larry? >>Yeah, sure. I mean it's not just hybrid. I think it's, we have much more complex architectures. So with all the power of digital decoupling, you know, creating microservices architectures, being able to pick best of breed services as everything becomes much more dynamic and ephemeral. So we moving for a world where a server in a virtual machine would be up for like 12 months or 15 months to containers that have lifespans of minutes or hours or even seconds now managed in a much more dynamic way with Kubernetes. So that that hotel was 15,000 containers managed by Kubernetes optimized over that environment and even more with serverless. So you've got a very complex environment to manage. And I think as our clients start to really evolve that the application portfolios, you know, SAS cloud, native wrapping legacy, the ability to then seamlessly manage across that environment and optimize and, and even the optimization in the old days we used to optimize around one or two dimensions was a cost or performance and SLA is now we've got to simultaneously take this very complex environment and optimize across performance, service levels, security, compliance and cost. >>So it's not just about cost optimization and they offset each other. If I'm optimizing for performance and service levels, my cost probably goes up. So it becomes a very complex problem. So spend a lot of time looking first. First starting with the operating model, you'd got to operate differently. How do you really get dev sec ops involved so that operations and security baked in, right? When you do the analysis so you're not building something that can't be secure operated and then really transforming the people, right? I mean the one of the hardest thing and place where our clients struggle the most is how do they upskill their organization, change the culture, the behavior. Because great example is we look at how we operate cloud and infrastructure. We want to turn all operators from eyes on glass looking at consoles into developers who are writing the next analytic algorithms to figure out predictive operation, to doing the automation script, to take, to remove mistakes, streamline drive agility, and reduce costs. And ultimately to tune the AI engines that are going to need it to do that. Complex optimization across very, very, very complex architectures. >>So you're talking about the people and the change management. I want to ask about innovation within Accenture and AWS. We heard Andy Jassy this morning in his fireside chat talk about how the company is now obviously a ginormous company, but how it really still has this startup mentality and how and how and what he does to ensure that innovation is still a priority, a relentless focus on the customer, de-centralized nature of the organization. Really focusing on what you're good at, knowing what's in your wheelhouse, how do you think about innovation and hadn't then how do you help clients make sure that they are bringing people along and as you said, give, giving them the sort of developer mindset. Do you want to, >>yeah, so that's absolutely important for us, innovation is very much part of our culture. When I look at my own group, which is intelligent cloud and infrastructure, what we do is we have 30,000 people who are working everyday at our clients and in many ways they understand the client's landscape even better than anybody else because they're working there every day. So some of the things that we do with our clients, our innovation forums where our people bring forward ideas to suggest to clients. So this is something that we do on a regular basis, take it to our clients, CEOs, and invariably several of these ideas actually get put into their whole plan for the following year. So we go innovate with our clients. We've created several digital studios and liquid studios in multiple locations. We've got several of them across the globe. So we bring our clients in for design thinking workshops, suggest ideas and you know, and await with them on things that we can take forward. >>Yeah, and just just to further that, I mean we've always driven it an innovation agenda. We always try and figure out what's next, where do we invest? What's the next bet? I mean, even going back to our cloud first days, I mean we've always been pushing the envelope. I think what Prisaad hit on is a really a step change for us in how we engage. I think in the past we'd come in as the consultants present, et cetera. And I think our clients are bright people. So actually engaging with them and more design thinking. I, we acquired a bunch of digital studios, Fjord and stuff, and I think they've infused this culture of coasts, co-sourcing, collaboration, and creating together. And the dynamic just changes and it's fantastic when the client then is in the room. They own it with you, they close, co-creating. And I think we've been spending a lot of time on how do we transform how we interact and engage with our clients in a much more collaborative way. And it's really changed the changes your relationship with them >>and the technology enables that to Larry and Priscilla, thank you so much for coming on the cube. A really great conversation. Thank you, Rebecca. I'm Rebecca night's stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Coming up in just a little bit.

>>Bach from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS executive summit brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. We are part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by two guests for this segment. We have Prisaad Sanker and he is a senior managing director global ICI lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Personal and Larry soccer, global managing director ICI offerings. Thank you so much for coming on Larry. So present to minister with you this week marks the one year anniversary of intelligent cloud infrastructure, a group that you lead at Accenture. Tell us a little bit more about, about, first of all why this group was formed and the journey you've had this year, the highest, the highs and lows. >>Sure, sure. So first, first of all, thank you for having us. Um, so as you mentioned, December 1st will be one year of having formed this group. And the reason we did that was because all of our clients are going through a journey of digital transformation. And it's very important for us to be able to support that journey. So there are different elements that we have to bring together around cloud as well as infrastructure. So we brought together this group, which was actually in different parts of Accenture as one particular group, and we call it intelligent cloud. And infrastructure consists of 30,000 people pretty much in every part of the world supporting all different industries. And this is a way for us to bring together not just cloud computing, but also areas like networking, workplace, digital, other digital businesses that we need to be able to support in order to be able to help our clients through their journey of transformation. >>So this, this group was formed at a time of tremendous change and upheaval and the landscape. Talk to us a little bit about, we hear so much about digital transformation, our company's ready. What's the, let us into the client mindset. >>Yeah. So what happens is, you know, different industries obviously are progressing at different speeds. All of our clients are always worried about being disrupted within their industries, either by an existing competitor all by a completely new competitor that doesn't exist. You know, all the stories about, you know, the big companies that existed and almost vanished overnight. So that's something that keeps CEOs and CIO is awake at night just worrying about that. And so digital transformation is very important for them to be relevant to their client. It's all about bringing new products to their clients and also the speed with which they can actually do that. It's no longer enough to be a fast follower. You have to be an innovator. And cloud is the way that this innovation will happen for our clients. And so it's very important for us to be able to bring our group together. We are able to support that journey for our clients. Leary >>want to bring you into this conversation a little bit. It'd be what will be required for enterprises to make this big transition. I mean, he was talking about how you need to be an innovator. You can't just be a fast follower. >> Well, I mean a lot of times I look at it just given the size, the scale of most of our clients who are really up market, most of them don't have the option to just do a rip and replace and just reinvent themselves completely. So it really is how do I very rapidly modernize and transform my business to take advantage of it? And it really needs to start with your application landscape and end data. So how do I start to look at all the possibilities of the AWS is and start to re-imagine, reinvent Duke, use cloud native technologies. Also a significant amount of their estates are already running in legacy environments. >>We get the mainframe or other environments. How do you digitally decouple those so that you can extract value out of that? And ultimately those decisions of apps and data that are going to drive cloud deployments and architectures and data gravity really becomes the key decision factor to decide where do I place this day? And it was a great example today if you saw Jesse's keynote, he announced Achla where they're actually starting to look at how do I move compute and the processing closer to the actual datasets. So actually inverting the problem and moving closer to the data. And then we see that trend starting to proliferate on the other part of the keynote that was very interesting was the five G announcement. And first you heard about AWS pushing into local zones where they were getting much distributing it out closer to them, reduce latency and really starting to push out. >>So ultimately we seen the whole landscape being transformed by data, these new application architectures and where that data resides and out to traditional world that we've known of hybrid with public and private is really transforming with the Amazon outputs, with the BMCs and stuff like that into much more one about shared and dedicated infrastructure. Then the big, the next real big thing that starts to happen then is this whole explosion of IOT. So as price performance goes down with Moore's law, we can start to see a lot more cost effective IOT solutions. And all of a sudden a world that was very centralized, you know, running up in the, in the world of the Amazons had the public cloud is not going to be much more distributed to a lot more of that compute over time gets moved out there. So we've seen a very rapidly evolving landscape. Apps and data are ultimately driving our cloud clients cloud and infrastructure investments. And they're really just trying to figure out how they can rapidly transform their environments to take advantage of this new landscape. >> So both of you are describing this exceedingly complex environment that is changing dizzying speed. I mean, just even this morning, but the Andy Jassy on stage for three hours with all of the new products and services that AWS has coming out with. What is AWS? What is ICI and Accenture doing to help clients navigate this, this, this, this landscape? Prisaad you know, our >>team is, it's not just enough for infrastructure and cloud to be a horizontal function as it used to be. We feel that, you know, one of the things that Accenture really brings to the table is our industry differentiation. Spent a lot of time analyzing the industries that our clients are in. So we've actually changed the team of ICI to be three different things. The first is to be industry led, so it's no longer good enough to be a horizontal function. We have to understand the needs of each industry and really look at how cloud and infrastructure will support that industry. The second is all about intelligence. And Larry just talked about the proliferation of data, but it's also bringing artificial intelligence, making networks much more smart, you know, really infusing intelligence into everything we do. And the third is the concept of being invisible because our clients are expecting infrastructure to just be there all the time. >>They don't really have to understand how it works, but it has to be there. It's just like going to into room and turning on a switch and you expect electricity to be there. So infrastructure has to be very much like, because it has to be ubiquitous, it has to be just available all the time. So those are the things that we are trying to bring to our clients to make it very specific for and very industry specific for for our clients. And this goes into areas like cloud computing. It goes into 5g edge is going to be a big part of what is going to happen in various industries. And as Larry talked about, IOT devices are going to be just proliferating. It's going to be billions of IOT devices. There's trillions of dollars being spent. In fact, I think the spend on IOT is probably bigger than any other area that I have seen probably in my working lifetime. So it's going to be an exciting time to come for us. >>I mean, we tend to think about artificial intelligence as this futuristic Jetsons kind of thing, but really it's, it's here. And now, Larry, can you talk a little bit about how companies are using AI and having an impact already on their businesses? I mean obviously you see a lot of AI being used for different use cases. We saw some great examples today in Jesse's keynote and we're seeing a use for video analytics for example. And AI to try to figure out predictive maintenance type activity. So there's obviously a lot of business use cases. I think what's interesting from our perspective as well is a lot of the operational use cases. So if you take a look at it with all these new innovations, the rapid pace of change that we're seeing with cloud infrastructure, that application landscape, we've started to rely pretty heavily first on analytics to how do we, how do we figure out what's going on, how do we operate efficiently, how do we make sure we don't put the businesses grist, you know, really pivoting from reactive to proactive and predictive operations. >>We've obviously automated everything as much as we can. I've see AI actually playing a very interesting role in how we optimize these environments over time. So as you get a much more complex environment, much more dynamic, and with containers, Coobernetti's, serverless compute dynamic networks that Prisaad was talking about with software defined networking, AI is going to be the only way we can tune and optimize that over time. So you've obviously got all the business use cases that we see in healthcare that we see in mining, predictive operations and stuff like that. But how we actually use AI internally is going to be critical to how we actually be able to manage cloud and infrastructure and really optimize it over time. >>W what is the client? What's, what's on your minds of your customers right now? We know that only 20% of companies out there have really adopted the cloud. Two thirds have really yet to capture the benefits of the cloud. What are you hearing from them? What are they saying to you? What are their pain points? >>So I think, you know, all of our clients realize that ultimately the cloud is going to be where they will be at. You know, data centers are existing today, but at some point, you know, everybody's going to move to the cloud. Most of our clients have taken the easier workloads and you know, the easy part has already been done. That's the first 20% but 80% of the work still remains. And that's the more complicated work that has to come. So they're looking to us to give them the right solutions. And then there's a variety of other factors to be considered. For example, they have to look at security issues. They have to understand that, you know, there are data privacy aspects to be considered. So really it's a question of matching the right private and public options. And as Larry also mentioned, probably only 30 40% of the data will actually sit in the central cloud. Most of the other data is actually gonna move out to the edge with IOT devices and so on. So data gravity, where does your dataset, where does your compute sit? And Andy talked about it as well today in his keynote address. These are all things that are going to keep evolving and I think that's going to really change the landscape. >>I think they, I think they all see the power of cloud. I mean, which in my mind it's really around the innovation cycles. You know, what you look at the pace that they're innovating with with RDS and Redshift. So they all see that power. I think the biggest thing, they struggle with our skills. And culture because how do you upskill, retrain the organization, everything from the new technologies, how to architect in the new world where it's very ephemeral, dynamic, a serverless world. How do you start to adopt those technologies? How do you operationalize it? How do you go beyond just agile and really do true dev sec ops where you're integrating security and operations built in from the ground floor. And a lot of times he's a cultural change is one of the things we see in cloud and infrastructure operations for example, is how do you take develop operators who used to be eyes on glass, looking at console's turn them into developers where they, you know, they're writing the next analytic algorithms to get to predictive there they're automating automation scripts to improve operations and ultimately tuning the AI engines that optimize it. >>And I think that skills and culture barrier is probably the hardest thing for them to overcome. And how do you just, you can't just go to the cloud, you've got to behave differently. It really have to transform how you use it, how you operate and really transform the organization and culture. >>So these change management challenges, where do you even start? Because as you said, the adopting the technology is almost the easy part, or at least the most straightforward, but really getting everyone on board and really changing people's mindsets and mentalities and dispositions and the way that they collaborate with each other and collaborate cross-functionally. So what have you learned within ICI to, to help companies? And what's your advice? >>I think, I think there are three aspects that you have to get right. In fact, I was talking to one of the CEOs of a very large client of ours, and I think you have to get three things right and you've got to get them aligned and moving at the same time. The first obviously is the technology. So you have to understand what makes sense for you, for your industry. Make the right bets because if you make a wrong decision, then you know you're going to set yourself back. So getting the technology right obviously is important. The second is operating model, making sure that you get that the right operating model in place and kicked off right, right upfront. And the third, like Larry said, is transforming your workforce. So making sure that people are, you know, have all the right skill sets when you actually have the operating model and the technology ready. So it's very important to bring all those three aspects together and a company like Accenture, with our background around consulting, around change management, around technology, we're uniquely positioned understanding our client's industries and really bringing all of those three aspects together so that we're able to position our clients to take that journey forward. >>Larry, in terms of next year's Excenture executive summit, look into your crystal ball. You've already talked about a lot of emerging technologies, IOT, edge computing have talked a lot about AI. Of course. What do you think are going to be the hot topics? Looking ahead this this year in ice with an ICI, you >>touched on earlier, I think everyone's going to be talking about data gravity. As you get these bigger and bigger data sets, it becomes, you know, the network's always going to be the bottleneck. So even with Moore's law, stretching from 18 months to 24 the amount of data we produce, particularly with IOT and edge, is really going to transform things. And even though we've got massive network upgrades like 5g coming along, it will never be enough. I mean, that comes along every 12 years. We're seeing a doubling of price performance who competed? I think data gravity, you can start to see a very different landscape where it used to be public and private and now edge is really going to be obliterated to much more seamless architecture. Then there was a lot of the keynote today, and if you start to take a look at local zones and some of the announcements today, they were ready. Amazon was heading there with green Greengrass so you can have much more seamlessness. And how do I get compute closer to the processing? You're gonna be talking a lot about clustering, clustering, compute around datasets versus the other way around. So I think we're gonna see, and I think that's going to happen pretty fast. Usually a lot of this stuff we've been talking about IOT for years. I do think we're on the tipping point. I think we're about to see exponential growth just as price performance >>comes together. Some of the technologies had gotten gotten there, but, but I think that the whole focus on data and data gravity is what you're going to hear a lot about next year. I can't wait to hear the AWS reinvent band. Do a little pink Floyd or something like that for data gravity. We'll Larry and Prisaad. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. It was a pleasure having you on. Thanks for Brooke. I'm Rebecca night's stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit.

>> from atop the Salesforce Tower in downtown San Francisco. It's the Q covering Accenture Innovation Date brought to you by ex center >> Hey, welcome back Your body jefe Rick here from the Cube were high atop San Francisco in the essential innovation hub. It's in the middle of the Salesforce Tower. It's a beautiful facility. They think you had it. The grand opening about six months ago. We're here for the grand opening. Very cool space. I got maker studios. They've got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. But we're here today to talk about Cloud in this continuing evolution about cloud in the enterprise and hybrid cloud and multi cloud in Public Cloud and Private Cloud. And we're really excited to have a couple of guys who really helping customers make this journey, cause it's really tough to do by yourself. CEOs are super busy. They worry about security and all kinds of other things. So centers, often a trusted partner. We got two of the leaders from center joining us today's Prasad Sankaran. He's the senior managing director of Intelligent Cloud infrastructure for Center Welcome and Larry Soccer, the global managing director. Intelligent cloud infrastructure offering from central gentlemen. Welcome. I love it. It intelligent cloud. What is an intelligent cloud all about? Got it in your title. It must mean something pretty significant. >> Yeah, I think First of all, thank you for having us, but you're absolutely Everything's around becoming more intelligent around using more automation. And the work that, you know we delivered to our clients and cloud, as you know, is the platform to which all of our clients are moving. So it's all about bringing the intelligence not only into infrastructure, but also into cloud generally. And it's all driven by software, >> right? It's just funny to think where we are in this journey. We talked a little bit before we turn the cameras on and there you made an interesting comment when I said, You know, when did this cloud for the Enterprise start? And you took it back to sass based applications, which, >> you know, you were sitting in the sales force builder. >> That's true. It isn't just the tallest building in here, and everyone all right, everyone's >> had a lot of focus on AWS is rise, etcetera. But the real start was really getting into sass. I mean, I remember We used to do a lot of Siebel deployments for CR M, and we started to pivot to sales, for some were moving from remedy into service. Now I mean, we went through on premise collaboration, email todo 360 5 So So we've actually been at it for quite a while in the particularly the SAS world. And it's only more recently that we started to see that kind of push to the, you know, the public pass, and it's starting to cloud native development. But But this journey started, you know, it was that 78 years ago that we really start to see some scale around it >> and tell me if you agree. I think really, what? The sales forces of the world and the service now is of the world off. 3 65 kind of broke down some of those initial barriers which were all really about security and security. Security secure. It's always too here where now security is actually probably an attribute >> and loud can brink Absolutely. In fact, I'm in those barriers took years to bring down. I still saw clients where they were forcing salesforce tor service. Now to put you know instances on Prime, and I think I think they finally woke up toe. You know, these guys invested ton in their security organizations. You know, there's a little of that needle in the haystack. You know, if you breach a data set, you know what you're getting after. But when you happen to sail sports, it's a lot harder. And so you know. So I think that security problems, I've certainly got away. We still have some compliance, regulatory things, data sovereignty. But I think security and not not that it's all by any means that you know, it's always giving an ongoing problem. But I think they're getting more comfortable with their data being up in the public domain, right? Not public. >> I think it also help them with their progress towards getting cloud native. So, you know, you pick certain applications which were obviously hosted by sales force and other companies, and you did some level of custom development around it. And now I think that's paved the way for more complex applications and different workloads now going into, you know, the public cloud and the private cloud. But that's the next part of the journey, >> right? So Let's back up 1/2 a step cause then, as you said, a bunch of stuff then went into Public Cloud, right? Everyone's putting in AWS and Google. Um, IBM has got a public how there was a lot more. They're not quite so many as there used to be. Um, but then we ran into a whole new home, Those of issues, right, Which is kind of opened up this hybrid cloud. This multi cloud world, which is you just can't put everything into a public clouds there certain attributes that you need to think about and yet from the application point of view, before you decide where you deploy that. So I'm just curious. If you can share now, would you guys do with clients? How should they think about applications? How, after they think about what to deploy where I >> think I'll start in the, You know, Larry has a lot of expertise in this area. I think you know, we have to obviously start from an application centric perspectives. You got to take a look at you know where your applications have to live water. What are some of the data implications on the applications or do you have by way of regulatory and compliance issues? Or do you have to do as faras performance because certain applications have to be in a high performance environment? Certain other applications don't think a lot of these factors will then drive where these applications need to recite. And then what we're seeing in today's world is really accomplish. Complex, um, situation where you have a lot of legacy, but you also have private as well as public cloud. So you approach it from an application perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, if you really take a look at Army, you look at it centers clients, and we were totally focused on up into the market Global 2000 savory. You know, clients typically have application portfolios ranging from 520,000 applications. And really, I mean, if you think about the purpose of cloud or even infrastructure for that, they're there to serve the applications. No one cares if your cloud infrastructure is not performing the absolute. So we start off with an application monetization approach and ultimately looking, you know, you know, with our tech advisory guys coming in, there are intelligent engineering service is to do the cloud native and at mod work our platforms. Guys, who do you know everything from sales forward through ASAP. They should drive a strategy on how those applications going to evolve with its 520,000 and determined hey, and usually using some like the six orders methodology. And I'm I am I going to retire this Am I going to retain it? And I'm gonna replace it with sass. Am I gonna re factor in format? And it's ultimately that strategy that's really gonna dictate a multi in and, you know, hybrid cloud story. So it's based on the applications data, gravity issues where they gonna reside on their requirements around regulatory, the requirements for performance, et cetera. That will then dictate the cloud strategies. I'm you know, not a big fan of going in there and just doing a multi hybrid cloud strategy without a really good up front application portfolio approach, right? How we're gonna modernize that >> it hadn't had a you segment. That's a lot of applications. And you know, how do you know the old thing? How do you know that one by that time, how do you help them pray or size? Where they should be focusing on. Yes, >> it. Typically, what we do is work with our clients to do a full application portfolio analysis, and then we're able to then segment the applications based on, you know, important to the business and some of the factors that both of us mentioned. And once we have that, then we come up with an approach where certain sets of applications have moved to sass certain other applications you moved past. So you know, you're basically doing the re factoring and the modernization, and then certain others, you know, you can just, you know, lift and shift. So it's really a combination off both modernization as well as migration. It's a combination off that, but to do that, you have initially look at the entire set of applications and come up with that approach. >> I'm just curious where within that application assessment, where is cost savings? Where is, uh, this is just old and where is opportunities to innovate faster? Because we know a lot of lot of talk really. Days has cost savings, but what the real advantages is execution speed if you can get it. >> If >> you could go back three or four years and we had there was a lot of CEO discussions around cost savings. I'm not really have seen our clients shift. It costs never goes away, obviously right. But there's a lot greater emphasis now on business agility. You know, howto innovate faster, get, get new capabilities, market faster to change my customer experience. So it's really I t is really trying to step up and, you know, enabled the business toe to compete in the marketplace. So we're seeing a huge shift in emphasis or focus at least starting with, you know, how do I get better business agility outta leverage to cloud and cloud native development to get there upper service levels? Actually, we started seeing increase on Hey, you know, these applications need to work. It's actress, So obviously cost still remains a factor, but we seem much more, you know, much more emphasis on agility, you know, enabling the business on giving the right service levels of right experience to the user. Little customers. Big pivot there, >> Okay. And let's get the definitions out because you know a lot of lot of conversation about public clouds. Easy private clouds, easy but hybrid cloud and multi cloud and confusion about what those are. How do you guys define them? How do you help your customers think about the definition? Yes, >> I think it's a really good point. So what we're starting to see is there were a lot of different definitions out there. But I think as I talk to my clients and our partners, I think we're all starting to come toe. You know, the same kind of definition on multi cloud. It's really about using more than one cloud. But hybrid, I think, is a very important concept because hybrid is really all about the placement off the workload or where your application is going to run on. And then again, it goes to all of these points that we talked about data, gravity and performance and other things. Other factors. But it's really all about where do you place the specific workload >> if you look at that, so if you think about public, I mean obviously gives us the innovation of the public providers. You look at how fast Amazon comes out with new versions of Lambda etcetera, so that's the innovations. There obviously agility. You could spend up environments very quickly which is, you know, one of the big benefits of it. The consumption economic models. So that is the number of drivers that are pushing in the direction of public. You know, on the private side, they're still it's quite a few benefits that don't get talked about as much. Um, so you know, if you look at it performance, you know, if you think the public world, you know, although they're scaling up larger T shirts, et cetera, they're still trying to do that for a large array of applications on the private side, you can really Taylor somethingto very high performance characteristics. Whether it's you know, 30 to 64 terabyte Hana, you can get a much more focused precision environment for business critical workloads like that article, article rack. You know, the Duke clusters everything about fraud analysis. So that's a big part of it. Related to that is the data gravity that Prasad just mentioned. You know, if I've got a 64 terrified Hana database, you know, sitting in my private cloud, it may not be that convenient to go and put get that data shared up in red shift or in Google's tensorflow. So So there's some data gravity out. Networks just aren't there. The Laden sea of moving that stuff around is a big issue. And then a lot of people of investments in their data centers. I mean, the other piece, that's interesting. His legacy, you know, You know, as we start to look at the world a lot, there's a ton of Could still living in, You know, whether it's you, Nick system, that IBM mainframes. There's a lot of business value there, and sometimes the business cases aren't aren't necessarily there toe to replace them. Right. And in world of digital, the decoupling where I can start to use micro service is we're seeing a lot of trends. We worked with one hotel to take the reservation system. You know, Rapid and Micro Service is, um, we then didn't you know, open shift couch base, front end. And now when you go against, you know, when you go and browsing properties, you're looking at rates you actually going into distributed database cash on, you know, in using the latest cloud native technologies that could be dropped every two weeks or every three or four days for my mobile application and It's only when it goes, you know, when the transaction goes back, to reserve the room that it goes back there. So we're seeing a lot of power with digital decoupling, but we still need to take advantage of, you know, we've got these legacy applications. So So the data centers air really were trying to evolve them. And really, just, you know, how do we learn everything from the world of public and struck to bring those saints similar type efficiencies to the to the world of private? And really, what we're saying is this emerging approach where I can start to take advantage of the innovation cycles that land is that you know, the red shifts the azure functions of the public world. But then maybe keep some of my more business critical regulated workloads. You know, that's the other side of the private side, right? I've got G X p compliance. If I've got hip data that I need to worry about GDP are you know, the whole set of regular two requirements Over time, we do anticipate the public guys will get much better and more compliant. In fact, they made great headway already, but they're Still not a number of clients are still, you know, not 100% comfortable from rail client's perspective. >> Gotta meet Teresa Carlson. She'll change him. Who runs that AWS Public Sector is doing amazing things, obviously with big government contracts. But but you raise real inching point later. You almost described what I would say is really a hybrid application in this thing. This hotel example that you use because it's is, you know, kind of break in the application and leveraging micro service is to do things around the core that allowed to take advantage of some this agility and hyper fast development, yet still maintain that core stuff that either doesn't need to move Works fine. Be too expensive. Drea Factor. It's a real different weight. Even think about workloads and applications into breaking those things into bits. >> And we see that pattern all over the place. I'm gonna give you the hotel Example Where but finance, you know, look at financial service. Is retail banking so open banking a lot. All those rito applications are on the mainframe. I'm insurance claims and and you look at it, the business value, replicating a lot of like the regulatory stuff, the locality stuff. It doesn't make sense to write it. There's no rule inherent business values of I can wrap it, expose it and you know the micro service's architecture now. D'oh cloud native front end. That's gonna give me a 360 view a customer, Change the customer experience. You know, I've got a much you know, I can still get that agility. The the innovation cycles by public. Bye bye. Wrapping my legacy environment >> in person, you rated jump in and I'll give you something to react to, Which is which is the single glass right now? How do I How did I manage all this stuff now? Not only do I have distributed infrastructure now, I've got distributed applications and the thing that you just described and everyone wants to be that single pane of glass Everybody wants to be the app that's upon everybody. Screen. How are you seeing people deal with the management complexity of these kind of distributed infrastructures? If you will Yeah, >> I think that that's that's an area that's, ah, actually very topical these days because, you know, you're starting to see more and more workers. Goto private cloud and so you've got a hybrid infrastructure you're starting to see move movement from just using the EMS to, you know, the cantinas and Cuban Edie's. And, you know, we talked about Serval s and so on. So all of our clients are looking for a way, and you have different types of users as well. Yeah, developers. You have data scientists. You have, you know, operators and so on. So they're all looking for that control plane that allows them access and a view toe everything that is out there that is being used in the enterprise. And that's where I think you know, a company like Accenture were able to use the best of breed toe provide that visibility to our clients. >> Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It's becoming, you know, with all the promise of cloud and all the power. And these new architectures is becoming much more dynamic, ephemeral, with containers and kubernetes with service computing that that one application for the hotel, they're actually started, and they've got some actually, now running a native us of their containers and looking at serverless. So you gonna even a single application can span that and one of things we've seen is is first. You know, a lot of our clients used to look at, you know, application management, you know, different from their their infrastructure. And the lines are now getting very blurry. You need to have very tight alignment. You take that single application. You know, if any my public side goes down or my mid tier with my you know, you know, open shipped on VM where it goes down on my back and mainframe goes down. Or the networks that connected to go down the devices that talked it. It's a very well, despite the power, very complex environment. So what we've been doing is first we've been looking at, you know, how do we get better synergy across what we you know, application service is teams that do the application manager an optimization cloud infrastructure, you know, how do we get better alignment that are embedded security, You know, how do you know what are managed to Security Service's and bringing those together? And then what we did was we looked at, you know, we got very aggressive of cloud for a strategy and, you know, how do we manage the world of public. But when looking at the public providers of hyper scale er's and how they hit incredible degrees of automation, we really looked at, said and said, Hey, look, you gotta operate differently in this new world. What can we learn from how the public guys they're doing that? We came up with this concept We call it running different. You know, how do you operate differently in this new multi speed? You know, you know, hot, very hybrid world across public, private demon, legacy environment and started looking say OK, what is it that they do? You know, first they standardize, and that's one of the big challenges you know, going to almost all of our clients in this a sprawl. And you know, whether it's application sprawl, its infrastructure, sprawl and >> my business is so unique. The Larry no business out there has the same process that we have. So we started make you know how to be >> standardized like center hybrid cloud solution apart with HP. Envy em where we, you know, how do we that was an example. So we can get thio because you can't automate unless you standardise. So that was the first thing you know, standardizing service catalog. Standardizing that, um, you know, the next thing is the operating model. They obviously operate differently. So we've been putting a lot of time and energy and what I call a cloud and agile operating model. And also a big part of that is truly you hear a lot about Dev ops right now, but truly putting the security and and operations into Deb set cops of bringing, you know, the development in the operations much tied together. So spending a lot of time looking at that and transforming operations re skilling the people you know, the operators of the future aren't eyes on glass there. Developers, they're writing the data ingestion, the analytic algorithms, you know, to do predictive operations. They're writing the automation script to take work, you know, test work out. Right. And over time, they'll be tuned in the air. Aye, aye. Engines to really optimize the environment and then finally has presided. Looted thio. Is that the platforms that control planes? That doing that? So, you know, we What we've been doing is we've had a significant investments in the eccentric cloud platform, our infrastructure automation platforms and then the application teams with it with our my wizard framework, and we've been starting to bring that together. You know, it's an integrated control plane that can plug into our clients environments to really manage seamlessly, you know, and provide, you know, automation Analytics. Aye, aye. Across APS, cloud infrastructure and even security. Right. And that, you know, that really is a iob is right. I mean, that's delivering on, you know, as the industry starts toe define and really coalesce around, eh? I ops, that's what we use. >> So just so I'm clear that so it's really your layer your software layer kind of management layer that that integrates all these different systems and provides kind of a unified view. Control, I reporting et cetera. Right >> Exactly. Then can plug in and integrate, you know, third party tools. I had to do some strategic function. >> I'm just I'm just >> curious is one of the themes that we here out in the press right now is this is this kind of pull back of public cloud app. Some of them are coming back. Or maybe it was, you know, kind of a rush. Maybe a little bit too aggressively. What are some of the reasons why people are pulling stuff back out of public clouds, that just with the wrong it was just the wrong application? The costs were not what we anticipated to be. We find it, you know, what are some of the reasons that you see after coming back in house? Yeah, >> I think it's >> a variety of factors. I mean, it's certainly cost, I think is one. So as there are multiple private options and you know, we don't talk about this, but the hyper skills themselves are coming out with their own different private options, like Aunt Ours and out pulls and other stack and on. And Ali Baba has obsessed I and so on. So you see a proliferation of that and you see many more options around private cloud. So I think the cost is certainly a factor. The second is I think data gravity is, I think, a very important point because as you're starting to see how different applications have to work together, then that becomes a very important point. The third is just about compliance, and, you know, the regulatory environment. As we look across the globe, you know, even outside the U. S. We look at Europe and other parts of Asia as clients and moving more to the cloud. You know, that becomes an important factor. So as you start to balance these things, I think you have to take a very application centric view. You see some of those some some maps moving back, and and I think that's the part of the hybrid world is that you know, you can have a nap running on the private cloud and then tomorrow you can move this. Since it's been containerized to run on public and it's, you know, it's all managed that look >> e. I mean, cost is a big factor if you actually look at it. Most of our clients, you know, they typically you were big cap ex businesses, and all of a sudden they're using this consumption consumption model. And they weren't really They didn't have a function to go and look at the thousands or millions of lines of it, right? You know, as your statement, exactly think they misjudged, you know, some of the scale on B e e. I mean, that's one of the reasons we started. It's got to be an application lead modernization that really that will dictate that. And I think in many cases, people didn't may not have thought through which application. What data? There The data, gravity data. Gravity's a conversation I'm having just by with every client right now. You know, I've got a 64 terabyte hana, and that's the core. My crown jewels. That data, you know, how do I get that to tensorflow? How'd I get that >> right? But if Andy was >> here, though, Andy would say, we'll send down the snow. The snow came from which virgin snow plows Snowball snowball. Well, they're snowballs. But we've seen the >> hold of a truck killer >> that comes out and he'd say, Take that and stick it in the cloud. Because if you've got that data in a single source right now, you can apply multitude of applications across that thing. So they you know they're pushing. Get that date end in this single source course than to move it, change it, you know you run it. All these micro lines of billing statement take >> the hotel. I mean, their data stolen the mainframe. So if they may want need to expose it? Yeah, they have a database cash, and they move it out. You know, the particulars of data sets get larger, it becomes, you know, the data. Gravity becomes a big issue. Because no matter how much you know, while Moore's law might be might have elongated from 18 to 24 months, the network will always be the bottle, Mac. So ultimately, we're seeing, you know, a CZ. We proliferate more and more data, all data sets get bigger and better than network becomes more of a bottleneck. Conned. That's a lot of times you gotta look at your applications. They have. I've got some legacy database I need to get. Thio. I need this to be approximately somewhere where I don't have, you know, high bandwith o r. Right Or, you know, highlight and see type or so egress costs a pretty big deals. My date is up in the cloud, and I'm gonna get charged for pulling it off. You know that That's been a big issue. >> You know, it's funny, I think, and I think a lot of the issue, obviously complexity building. It's a totally different building model, but I think to a lot of people will put stuff in a public cloud and then operated as if they bought it. And they're running in the data center in this kind of this. Turn it on, turn it off when you need it. Everyone turns. Everyone loves to talk about the example turning it on when you need it. But nobody ever talks about turning it off when you don't. But but the kind of clothes on our conversation I won't talk about a I and applied a I. CoSine is a lot of talk in the market place, but a time machine learning. But as you guys know pride better than anybody, it's the application of a I and specific applications, which really on unlocks the value. And as we're sitting here talking about this complexity, I can't help but think that, you know, applied a I in a management layer like your run differently, set up to actually know when to turn things on, when to turn things off when you moved in but not moved, it's gonna have to be machines running that right cause the data sets and the complexity of these systems is going to be just overwhelming. Yeah, yeah, >> absolutely completely agree with you in fact. Ah, essential. We actually referred to the Seoul area as Applied intelligence. Ah, and that's our guy, right? And, uh, it is absolutely to add more and more automation Move everything Maur toe where it's being run by the machine rather than, you know, having people really working on these things >> yet, e I mean, if you think you hit the nail on the head, we're gonna a eyes e. I mean, given how things getting complex, more ephemeral, you think about kubernetes et cetera. We're gonna have to leverage a humans or not to be able to get, you know, manage this. The environment is important, right? What's interesting way we've used quite effectively for quite some time. But it's good at some stuff, not good at others. So we find it's very good at, like, ticket triage, like ticket triage, chicken routing, et cetera. You know, any time we take over account, we tune our AI ai engines. We have ticket advisers, etcetera. That's what probably got the most, you know, most bang for the buck. We tried in the network space. Less success to start even with, you know, commercial products that were out there. I think where a I ultimately bails us out of this is if you look at the problem. You know, a lot of times we talked about optimizing around cost, but then performance. I mean, and it's they they're somewhat, you know, you gotta weigh him off each other. So you've got a very multi dimensional problem on howto I optimize my workloads, particularly. I gotta kubernetes cluster and something on Amazon, you know, sums running on my private cloud, etcetera. So we're gonna get some very complex environment. And the only way you're gonna be ableto optimize across multi dimensions that cost performance service levels, you know, and then multiple options don't do it public private, You know, what's my network costs etcetera. Isn't a I engine tuning that ai ai engines? So ultimately, I mean, you heard me earlier on the operators. I think you know, they write the analytic albums, they do the automation scripts, but they're the ultimate ones who then tune the aye aye engines that will manage our environment, right. And I think it kubernetes will be interesting because it becomes a link to the control plane optimize workload placement between >> when the best thing to you. Then you have dynamic optimization can. You might be up to my tanks at us right now, but you might be optimizing for output the next day. So exists really a you know, kind of Ah, never ending >> when you got you got to see them >> together with it. And multi dimension optimization is very difficult. So I mean, you know, humans can't get their head around. Machines can, but they need to be trained. >> Well, Prasad, Larry, Lots of great opportunities for for centuries bring that expertise to the table. So thanks for taking a few minutes to walk through some of these things. Our pleasure. Thank you. Raise Prasad is Larry. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. We are high above San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower. Theis Center. Innovation have in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time

>> Hey, welcome back. Your body, Jefe Rick here from the Cube were high atop San Francisco in the century innovation hub. It's in the middle of the Salesforce Tower. It's a beautiful facility. They think you had it. The grand opening about six months ago. We're here for the grand opening. Very cool space. I got maker studios. They've got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. But we're here today to talk about Cloud in this continuing evolution about cloud in the enterprise and hybrid cloud and multi cloud in Public Cloud and Private Cloud. And we're really excited to have a couple of guys who really helping customers make this journey, cause it's really tough to do by yourself. CEOs are super busy. There were about security and all kinds of other things, so centers, often a trusted partner. We got two of the leaders from center joining us today's Prasad Sankaran. He's the senior managing director of Intelligent Cloud infrastructure for Center Welcome and Larry Soccer, the global managing director. Intelligent cloud infrastructure offering from central gentlemen. Welcome. I love it. It intelligent cloud. What is an intelligent cloud all about? Got it in your title. It must mean something pretty significant. >> Yeah, I think First of all, thank you for having us, but yeah, absolutely. Everything's around becoming more intelligent around using more automation. And the work that, you know we delivered to our clients and cloud, as you know, is the platform to reach. All of our clients are moving. So it's all about bringing the intelligence not only into infrastructure, but also into cloud generally. And it's all driven by software, >> right? It's just funny to think where we are in this journey. We talked a little bit before we turn the cameras on and there you made an interesting comment when I said, You know, when did this cloud for the Enterprise start? And you took it back to sass based applications, which, >> you know you were sitting in the sales force builder. >> That's true. It isn't just the tallest building in >> everyone's, you know, everyone's got a lot of focus on AWS is rise, etcetera. But the real start was really getting into sass. I mean, I remember we used to do a lot of Siebel deployments for CR M, and we started to pivot to sales, for some were moving from remedy into service now. I mean, we've went through on premise collaboration, email thio 3 65 So So we've actually been at it for quite a while in the particularly the SAS world. And it's only more recently that we started to see that kind of push to the, you know, the public pass, and it's starting to cloud native development. But But this journey started, you know, it was that 78 years ago that we really started. See some scale around it. >> And I think and tell me if you agree, I think really, what? The sales forces of the world and and the service now is of the world office 3 65 kind of broke down some of those initial beers, which are all really about security and security, security, security, Always to hear where now security is actually probably an attributes and loud can brink. >> Absolutely. In fact, I mean, those barriers took years to bring down. I still saw clients where they were forcing salesforce tor service Now to put, you know, instances on prime and I think I think they finally woke up toe. You know, these guys invested ton in their security organizations. You know there's a little of that needle in the haystack. You know, if you breach a data set, you know what you're getting after. But when Europe into sales force, it's a lot harder. And so you know. So I think that security problems have certainly gone away. We still have some compliance, regulatory things, data sovereignty. But I think security and not not that it sold by any means that you know, it's always giving an ongoing problem. But I think they're getting more comfortable with their data being up in the in the public domain, right? Not public. >> And I think it also helped them with their progress towards getting cloud native. So, you know, you pick certain applications which were obviously hosted by sales force and other companies, and you did some level of custom development around it. And now I think that's paved the way for more complex applications and different workloads now going into, you know, the public cloud and the private cloud. But that's the next part of the journey, >> right? So let's back up 1/2 a step, because then, as you said, a bunch of stuff then went into public cloud, right? Everyone's putting in AWS and Google. Um, IBM has got a public how there was a lot more. They're not quite so many as there used to be, Um, but then we ran into a whole new host of issues, right, which is kind of opened up this hybrid cloud. This multi cloud world, which is you just can't put everything into a public clouds. There's certain attributes is that you need to think about and yet from the application point of view before you decide where you deploy that. So I'm just curious. If you can share now, would you guys do with clients? How should they think about applications? How should they think about what to deploy where I think >> I'll start in? The military has a lot of expertise in this area. I think you know, we have to obviously start from an application centric perspective. You go to take a look at you know where your applications have to live water. What are some of the data implications on the applications, or do you have by way of regulatory and compliance issues, or do you have to do as faras performance because certain applications have to be in a high performance environment. Certain other applications don't think a lot of these factors will. Then Dr where these applications need to recite and then what we think in today's world is really accomplish. Complex, um, situation where you have a lot of legacy. But you also have private as well as public cloud. So you approach it from an application perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, if you really take a look at Army, you look at it centers clients, and we were totally focused on up into the market Global 2000 savory. You know how clients typically have application portfolios ranging from 520,000 applications? And really, I mean, if you think about the purpose of cloud or even infrastructure for that, they're there to serve the applications. No one cares if your cloud infrastructure is not performing the absolute. So we start off with an application monetization approach and ultimately looking, you know, you know, with our tech advisory guys coming in, there are intelligent engineering service is to do the cloud native and at mod work our platforms, guys, who do you know everything from sales forward through ASAP. They should drive a strategy on how those applications gonna evolve with its 520,000 and determined hey, and usually using some, like the six orders methodology. And I'm I am I going to retire this Am I going to retain it? And, you know, I'm gonna replace it with sass. Am I gonna re factor in format? And it's ultimately that strategy that's really gonna dictate a multi and, you know, every cloud story. So it's based on the applications data, gravity issues where they gonna reside on their requirements around regulatory, the requirements for performance, etcetera. That will then dictate the cloud strategies. I'm you know, not a big fan of going in there and just doing a multi hybrid cloud strategy without a really good up front application portfolio approach, right? How we gonna modernize that >> it had. And how do you segment? That's a lot of applications. And you know, how do you know the old thing? How do you know that one by that time, how do you help them pray or size where they should be focusing on us? >> So typically what we do is work with our clients to do a full application portfolio analysis, and then we're able to then segment the applications based on, you know, important to the business and some of the factors that both of us mentioned. And once we have that, then we come up with an approach where certain sets of applications he moved to sass certain other applications you move to pass. So you know, you're basically doing the re factoring and the modernization and then certain others you know, you can just, you know, lift and shift. So it's really a combination off both modernization as well as migration. It's a combination off that, but to do that, you have to initially look at the entire set of applications and come up with that approach. >> I'm just curious where within that application assessment, um, where is cost savings? Where is, uh, this is just old. And where is opportunities to innovate faster? Because we know a lot of lot of talk really. Days has cost savings, but what the real advantages is execution speed if you can get it. If >> you could go back through four years and we had there was a lot of CEO discussions around cost savings, I'm not really have seen our clients shift. It costs never goes away, obviously right. But there's a lot greater emphasis now on business agility. You know, howto innovate faster, get getting your capabilities to market faster, to change my customer experience. So So it's really I t is really trying to step up and, you know, enabled the business toe to compete in the marketplace. We're seeing a huge shift in emphasis or focus at least starting with, you know, how'd I get better business agility outta leverage to cloud and cloud native development to get their upper service levels? Actually, we started seeing increase on Hey, you know, these applications need to work. It's actress. So So Obviously, cost still remains a factor, but we seem much more for, you know, much more emphasis on agility, you know, enabling the business on, given the right service levels of right experience to the user, little customers. Big pivot there, >> Okay. And let's get the definitions out because you know a lot of lot of conversation about public clouds, easy private clouds, easy but hybrid cloud and multi cloud and confusion about what those are. How do you guys define him? How do you help your customers think about the definition? Yes, >> I think it's a really good point. So what we're starting to see is there were a lot of different definitions out there. But I think as I talked more clients and our partners, I think we're all starting to, you know, come to ah, you know, the same kind of definition on multi cloud. It's really about using more than one cloud. But hybrid, I think, is a very important concept because hybrid is really all about the placement off the workload or where your application is going to run on. And then again, it goes to all of these points that we talked about data, gravity and performance and other things. Other factors. But it's really all about where do you place the specific look >> if you look at that, so if you think about public, I mean obviously gives us the innovation of the public providers. You look at how fast Amazon comes out with new versions of Lambda etcetera. So that's the innovations there obviously agility. You could spend up environments very quickly, which is, you know, one of the big benefits of it. The consumption, economic models. So that is the number of drivers that are pushing in the direction of public. You know, on the private side, they're still it's quite a few benefits that don't get talked about as much. Um, so you know, if you look at it, um, performance if you think the public world, you know, Although they're scaling up larger T shirts, et cetera, they're still trying to do that for a large array of applications on the private side, you can really Taylor somethingto very high performance characteristics. Whether it's you know, 30 to 64 terabyte Hana, you can get a much more focused precision environment for business. Critical workloads like that article, article rack, the Duke clusters, everything about fraud analysis. So that's a big part of it. Related to that is the data gravity that Prasad just mentioned. You know, if I've got a 64 terabyte Hana database you know, sitting in my private cloud, it may not be that convenient to go and put get that data shared up in red shift or in Google's tensorflow. So So there's some data gravity out. Networks just aren't there. The laden sea of moving that stuff around is a big issue. And then a lot of people of investments in their data centers. I mean, the other piece, that's interesting. His legacy, you know, you know, as we start to look at the world a lot, there's a ton of code still living in, You know, whether it's you, nick system, just IBM mainframes. There's a lot of business value there, and sometimes the business cases aren't aren't necessarily there toe to replace them. Right? And in world of digital, the decoupling where I can start to use micro service is we're seeing a lot of trends. We worked with one hotel to take their reservation system. You know, Rapid and Micro Service is, um, we then didn't you know, open shift couch base, front end. And now, when you go against, you know, when you go and browsing properties, you're looking at rates you actually going into distributed database cash on, you know, in using the latest cloud native technologies that could be dropped every two weeks or everything three or four days for my mobile application. And it's only when it goes, you know, when the transaction goes back, to reserve the room that it goes back there. So we're seeing a lot of power with digital decoupling, But we still need to take advantage of, you know, we've got these legacy applications. So So the data centers air really were trying to evolve them. And really, just, you know, how do we learn everything from the world of public and struck to bring those saints similar type efficiencies to the to the world of private? And really, what we're seeing is this emerging approach where I can start to take advantage of the innovation cycles. The land is that, you know, the red shifts the functions of the public world, but then maybe keep some of my more business critical regulated workloads. You know, that's the other side of the private side, right? I've got G X p compliance. If I've got hip, a data that I need to worry about GDP are there, you know, the whole set of regular two requirements. Now, over time, we do anticipate the public guys will get much better and more compliant. In fact, they made great headway already, but they're still not a number of clients are still, you know, not 100% comfortable from my client's perspective. >> Gotta meet Teresa Carlson. She'll change him, runs that AWS public sector is doing amazing things, obviously with big government contracts. But but you raise real inching point later. You almost described what I would say is really a hybrid application in this in this hotel example that you use because it's is, you know, kind of breaking the application and leveraging micro service is to do things around the core that allowed to take advantage of some this agility and hyper fast development, yet still maintain that core stuff that either doesn't need to move. Works fine, be too expensive. Drea Factor. It's a real different weight. Even think about workloads and applications into breaking those things into bits. >> And we see that pattern all over the place. I'm gonna give you the hotel Example Where? But finance, you know, look at financial service. Is retail banking so open banking a lot. All those rito applications are on the mainframe. I'm insurance claims and and you look at it the business value of replicating a lot of like the regulatory stuff, the locality stuff. It doesn't make sense to write it. There's no rule inherent business values of I can wrap it, expose it and in a micro service's architecture now D'oh cloud native front end. That's gonna give me a 360 view a customer, Change the customer experience. You know, I've got a much you know, I can still get that agility. The innovation cycles by public. Bye bye. Wrapping my legacy environment >> and percent you raided, jump in and I'll give you something to react to, Which is which is the single planet glass right now? How do I How did I manage all this stuff now? Not only do I have distributed infrastructure now, I've got distributed applications in the and the thing that you just described and everyone wants to be that single pane of glass. Everybody wants to be the app that's upon everybody. Screen. How are you seeing people deal with the management complexity of these kind of distributed infrastructures? If you will Yeah, >> I think that that's that's an area that's, ah, actually very topical these days because, you know, you're starting to see more and more workers go to private cloud. And so you've got a hybrid infrastructure you're starting to see move movement from just using the EMS to, you know, cantinas and Cuba needs. And, you know, we talked about Serval s and so on. So all of our clients are looking for a way, and you have different types of users as well. Yeah, developers. You have data scientists. You have, you know, operators and so on. So they're all looking for that control plane that allows them access and a view toe everything that is out there that is being used in the enterprise. And that's where I think you know, a company like Accenture were able to use the best of breed toe provide that visibility to our clients, >> right? Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It's becoming, you know, with all the promises, cloud and all the power. And these new architectures is becoming much more dynamic, ephemeral, with containers and kubernetes with service computing that that that one application for the hotel, they're actually started in. They've got some, actually, now running a native us of their containers and looking at surveillance. So you're gonna even a single application can span that. And one of things we've seen is is first, you know, a lot of our clients used to look at, you know, application management, you know, different from their their infrastructure. And the lines are now getting very blurry. You need to have very tight alignment. You take that single application, if any my public side goes down or my mid tier with my you know, you know, open shipped on VM, where it goes down on my back and mainframe goes down. Or the networks that connected to go down the devices that talk to it. It's a very well. Despite the power, it's a very complex environment. So what we've been doing is first we've been looking at, you know, how do we get better synergy across what we you know, Application Service's teams that do that Application manager, an optimization cloud infrastructure. How do we get better alignment that are embedded security, You know, how do you know what are managed to security service is bringing those together. And then what we did was we looked at, you know, we got very aggressive with cloud for a strategy and, you know, how do we manage the world of public? But when looking at the public providers of hyper scale, er's and how they hit Incredible degrees of automation. We really looked at, said and said, Hey, look, you gotta operate differently in this new world. What can we learn from how the public guys we're doing that We came up with this concept. We call it running different. You know, how do you operate differently in this new multi speed? You know, you know, hot, very hybrid world across public, private demon, legacy, environment, and start a look and say, OK, what is it that they do? You know, first they standardize, and that's one of the big challenges you know, going to almost all of our clients in this a sprawl. And you know, whether it's application sprawl, its infrastructure, sprawl >> and my business is so unique. The Larry no business out there has the same process that way. So >> we started make you know how to be standardized like center hybrid cloud solution important with hp envy And where we how do we that was an example of so we can get to you because you can't automate unless you standardise. So that was the first thing you know, standardizing our service catalog. Standardizing that, um you know, the next thing is the operating model. They obviously operate differently. So we've been putting a lot of time and energy and what I call a cloud and agile operating model. And also a big part of that is truly you hear a lot about Dev ops right now. But truly putting the security and and operations into Deb said cops are bringing, you know, the development in the operations much tied together. So spending a lot of time looking at that and transforming operations re Skilling the people you know, the operators of the future aren't eyes on glass there. Developers, they're writing the data ingestion, the analytic algorithms, you know, to do predictive operations. They're riding the automation script to take work, you know, test work out right. And over time they'll be tuning the aye aye engines to really optimize environment. And then finally, has Prasad alluded to Is that the platforms that control planes? That doing that? So, you know what we've been doing is we've had a significant investments in the eccentric cloud platform, our infrastructure automation platforms, and then the application teams with it with my wizard framework, and we started to bring that together you know, it's an integrated control plane that can plug into our clients environments to really manage seamlessly, you know, and provide. You know, it's automation. Analytics. Aye, aye. Across APS, cloud infrastructure and even security. Right. And that, you know, that really is a I ops, right? I mean, that's delivering on, you know, as the industry starts toe define and really coalesce around, eh? I ops. That's what we you A ups. >> So just so I'm clear that so it's really your layer your software layer kind of management layer that that integrates all these different systems and provides kind of a unified view. Control? Aye, aye. Reporting et cetera. Right? >> Exactly. Then can plug in and integrate, you know, third party tools to do straight functions. >> I'm just I'm just curious is one of the themes that we here out in the press right now is this is this kind of pull back of public cloud app, something we're coming back. Or maybe it was, you know, kind of a rush. Maybe a little bit too aggressively. What are some of the reasons why people are pulling stuff back out of public clouds that just with the wrong. It was just the wrong application. The costs were not what we anticipated to be. We find it, you know, what are some of the reasons that you see after coming back in house? Yeah, I think it's >> a variety of factors. I mean, it's certainly cost, I think is one. So as there are multiple private options and you know, we don't talk about this, but the hyper skills themselves are coming out with their own different private options like an tars and out pulls an actor stack and on. And Ali Baba has obsessed I and so on. So you see a proliferation of that, then you see many more options around around private cloud. So I think the cost is certainly a factor. The second is I think data gravity is, I think, a very important point because as you're starting to see how different applications have to work together, then that becomes a very important point. The third is just about compliance, and, you know, the regulatory environment. As we look across the globe, even outside the U. S. We look at Europe and other parts of Asia as clients and moving more to the cloud. You know that becomes an important factor. So as you start to balance these things, I think you have to take a very application centric view. You see some of those some some maps moving back, and and I think that's the part of the hybrid world is that you know, you can have a nap running on the private cloud and then tomorrow you can move this. Since it's been containerized to run on public and it's, you know, it's all managed. That left >> E. I mean, cost is a big factor if you actually look at it. Most of our clients, you know, they typically you were a big cap ex businesses, and all of a sudden they're using this consumption, you know, consumption model. And they went, really, they didn't have a function to go and look at be thousands or millions of lines of it, right? You know, as your statement Exactly. I think they misjudged, you know, some of the scale on Do you know e? I mean, that's one of the reasons we started. It's got to be an application led, you know, modernization, that really that will dictate that. And I think In many cases, people didn't. May not have thought Through which application. What data? There The data, gravity data. Gravity's a conversation I'm having just by with every client right now. And if I've got a 64 terabyte Hana and that's the core, my crown jewels that data, you know, how do I get that to tensorflow? How'd I get that? >> Right? But if Andy was here, though, and he would say we'll send down the stove, the snow came from which virgin snow plows? Snowball Snowball. Well, they're snowballs. But I have seen the whole truck killer that comes out and he'd say, Take that and stick it in the cloud. Because if you've got that data in a single source right now, you can apply multitude of applications across that thing. So they, you know, they're pushing. Get that date end in this single source. Of course. Then to move it, change it. You know, you run into all these micro lines of billing statement, take >> the hotel. I mean, their data stolen the mainframe, so if they anyone need to expose it, Yeah, they have a database cash, and they move it out, You know, particulars of data sets get larger, it becomes, you know, the data. Gravity becomes a big issue because no matter how much you know, while Moore's Law might be might have elongated from 18 to 24 months, the network will always be the bottle Mac. So ultimately, we're seeing, you know, a CZ. We proliferate more and more data, all data sets get bigger and better. The network becomes more of a bottleneck. And that's a It's a lot of times you gotta look at your applications. They have. I've got some legacy database I need to get Thio. I need this to be approximately somewhere where I don't have, you know, high bandwith. Oh, all right. Or, you know, highlight and see type. Also, egress costs a pretty big deals. My date is up in the cloud, and I'm gonna get charged for pulling it off. You know, that's being a big issue, >> you know, it's funny, I think, and I think a lot of the the issue, obviously complexity building. It's a totally from building model, but I think to a lot of people will put stuff in a public cloud and then operated as if they bought it and they're running in the data center in this kind of this. Turn it on, Turn it off when you need it. Everyone turns. Everyone loves to talk about the example turning it on when you need it. But nobody ever talks about turning it off when you don't. But it kind of close on our conversation. I won't talk about a I and applied a Iot because he has a lot of talk in the market place. But, hey, I'm machine learning. But as you guys know pride better than anybody, it's the application of a I and specific applications, which really on unlocks the value. And as we're sitting here talking about this complexity, I can't help but think that, you know, applied a I in a management layer like your run differently, set up to actually know when to turn things on, when to turn things off when you moved in but not moved, it's gonna have to be machines running that right cause the data sets and the complexity of these systems is going to be just overwhelming. Yeah, yeah, >> absolutely. Completely agree with you. In fact, attack sensual. We actually refer to this whole area as applied intelligence on That's our guy, right? And it is absolutely to add more and more automation move everything Maur toe where it's being run by the machine rather than you know, having people really working on these things >> yet, e I mean, if you think you hit the nail on the head, we're gonna a eyes e. I mean, given how things getting complex, more ephemeral, you think about kubernetes et cetera. We're gonna have to leverage a humans or not to be able to get, you know, manage this. The environments comported right. What's interesting way we've used quite effectively for quite some time. But it's good at some stuff, not good at others. So we find it's very good at, like, ticket triage, like ticket triage, chicken rounding et cetera. You know, any time we take over account, we tune our AI ai engines. We have ticket advisers, etcetera. That's what probably got the most, you know, most bang for the buck. We tried in the network space, less success to start even with, you know, commercial products that were out there. I think where a I ultimately bails us out of this is if you look at the problem. You know, a lot of times we talked about optimizing around cost, but then performance. I mean, and it's they they're somewhat, you know, you gotta weigh him off each other. So you've got a very multi dimensional problem on howto I optimize my workloads, particularly. I gotta kubernetes cluster and something on Amazon, you know, sums running on my private cloud, etcetera. So we're gonna get some very complex environment. And the only way you're gonna be ableto optimize across multi dimensions that cost performance service levels, you know, And then multiple options don't do it public private, You know, what's my network costs etcetera. Isn't a I engine tuning that ai ai engines? So ultimately, I mean, you heard me earlier on the operators. I think you know, they write the analytic albums, they do the automation scripts, but they're the ultimate one too. Then tune the aye aye engines that will manage our environment. And I think it kubernetes will be interesting because it becomes a link to the control plane optimize workload placement. You know, between >> when the best thing to you, then you have dynamic optimization. Could you might be optimizing eggs at us right now. But you might be optimizing for output the next day. So exists really a you know, kind of Ah, never ending when you got me. They got to see them >> together with you and multi dimension. Optimization is very difficult. So I mean, you know, humans can't get their head around. Machines can, but they need to be trained. >> Well, Prasad, Larry, Lots of great opportunities for for centuries bring that expertise to the tables. So thanks for taking a few minutes to walk through some of these things. Our pleasure. Thank you, Grace. Besides Larry, I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. We are high above San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower, Theis Center, Innovation hub in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Hey, welcome back. Your body, Jefe Rick here from the Cube were high atop San Francisco in the century innovation hub. It's in the middle of the Salesforce Tower. It's a beautiful facility. They think you had it. The grand opening about six months ago. We're here for the grand opening. Very cool space. I got maker studios. They've got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. But we're here today to talk about Cloud in this continuing evolution about cloud in the enterprise and hybrid cloud and multi cloud in Public Cloud and Private Cloud. And we're really excited to have a couple of guys who really helping customers make this journey, cause it's really tough to do by yourself. CEOs are super busy. There were about security and all kinds of other things, so centers, often a trusted partner. We got two of the leaders from center joining us today's Prasad Sankaran. He's the senior managing director of Intelligent Cloud infrastructure for Center Welcome and Larry Soccer, the global managing director. Intelligent cloud infrastructure offering from central gentlemen. Welcome. I love it. It intelligent cloud. What is an intelligent cloud all about? Got it in your title. It must mean something pretty significant. >> Yeah, I think First of all, thank you for having us, but yeah, absolutely. Everything's around becoming more intelligent around using more automation. And the work that, you know we delivered to our clients and cloud, as you know, is the platform to reach. All of our clients are moving. So it's all about bringing the intelligence not only into infrastructure, but also into cloud generally. And it's all driven by software, >> right? It's just funny to think where we are in this journey. We talked a little bit before we turn the cameras on and there you made an interesting comment when I said, You know, when did this cloud for the Enterprise start? And you took it back to sass based applications, which, >> you know you were sitting in the sales force builder. >> That's true. It isn't just the tallest building in >> everyone's, you know, everyone's got a lot of focus on AWS is rise, etcetera. But the real start was really getting into sass. I mean, I remember we used to do a lot of Siebel deployments for CR M, and we started to pivot to sales, for some were moving from remedy into service now. I mean, we've went through on premise collaboration, email thio 3 65 So So we've actually been at it for quite a while in the particularly the SAS world. And it's only more recently that we started to see that kind of push to the, you know, the public pass, and it's starting to cloud native development. But But this journey started, you know, it was that 78 years ago that we really started. See some scale around it. >> And I think and tell me if you agree, I think really, what? The sales forces of the world and and the service now is of the world office 3 65 kind of broke down some of those initial beers, which are all really about security and security, security, security, Always to hear where now security is actually probably an attributes and loud can brink. >> Absolutely. In fact, I mean, those barriers took years to bring down. I still saw clients where they were forcing salesforce tor service Now to put, you know, instances on prime and I think I think they finally woke up toe. You know, these guys invested ton in their security organizations. You know there's a little of that needle in the haystack. You know, if you breach a data set, you know what you're getting after. But when Europe into sales force, it's a lot harder. And so you know. So I think that security problems have certainly gone away. We still have some compliance, regulatory things, data sovereignty. But I think security and not not that it sold by any means that you know, it's always giving an ongoing problem. But I think they're getting more comfortable with their data being up in the in the public domain, right? Not public. >> And I think it also helped them with their progress towards getting cloud native. So, you know, you pick certain applications which were obviously hosted by sales force and other companies, and you did some level of custom development around it. And now I think that's paved the way for more complex applications and different workloads now going into, you know, the public cloud and the private cloud. But that's the next part of the journey, >> right? So let's back up 1/2 a step, because then, as you said, a bunch of stuff then went into public cloud, right? Everyone's putting in AWS and Google. Um, IBM has got a public how there was a lot more. They're not quite so many as there used to be, Um, but then we ran into a whole new host of issues, right, which is kind of opened up this hybrid cloud. This multi cloud world, which is you just can't put everything into a public clouds. There's certain attributes is that you need to think about and yet from the application point of view before you decide where you deploy that. So I'm just curious. If you can share now, would you guys do with clients? How should they think about applications? How should they think about what to deploy where I >> think I'll start in? The military has a lot of expertise in this area. I think you know, we have to obviously start from an application centric perspective. You go to take a look at you know where your applications have to live water. What are some of the data implications on the applications, or do you have by way of regulatory and compliance issues, or do you have to do as faras performance because certain applications have to be in a high performance environment. Certain other applications don't think a lot of these factors will. Then Dr where these applications need to recite and then what we think in today's world is really accomplish. Complex, um, situation where you have a lot of legacy. But you also have private as well as public cloud. So you approach it from an application perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, if you really take a look at Army, you look at it centers clients, and we were totally focused on up into the market Global 2000 savory. You know how clients typically have application portfolios ranging from 520,000 applications? And really, I mean, if you think about the purpose of cloud or even infrastructure for that, they're there to serve the applications. No one cares if your cloud infrastructure is not performing the absolute. So we start off with an application monetization approach and ultimately looking, you know, you know, with our tech advisory guys coming in, there are intelligent engineering service is to do the cloud native and at mod work our platforms, guys, who do you know everything from sales forward through ASAP. They should drive a strategy on how those applications gonna evolve with its 520,000 and determined hey, and usually using some, like the six orders methodology. And I'm I am I going to retire this Am I going to retain it? And, you know, I'm gonna replace it with sass. Am I gonna re factor in format? And it's ultimately that strategy that's really gonna dictate a multi and, you know, every cloud story. So it's based on the applications data, gravity issues where they gonna reside on their requirements around regulatory, the requirements for performance, etcetera. That will then dictate the cloud strategies. I'm you know, not a big fan of going in there and just doing a multi hybrid cloud strategy without a really good up front application portfolio approach, right? How we gonna modernize that >> it had. And how do you segment? That's a lot of applications. And you know, how do you know the old thing? How do you know that one by that time, how do you help them pray or size where they should be focusing on us? >> So typically what we do is work with our clients to do a full application portfolio analysis, and then we're able to then segment the applications based on, you know, important to the business and some of the factors that both of us mentioned. And once we have that, then we come up with an approach where certain sets of applications he moved to sass certain other applications you move to pass. So you know, you're basically doing the re factoring and the modernization and then certain others you know, you can just, you know, lift and shift. So it's really a combination off both modernization as well as migration. It's a combination off that, but to do that, you have to initially look at the entire set of applications and come up with that approach. >> I'm just curious where within that application assessment, um, where is cost savings? Where is, uh, this is just old. And where is opportunities to innovate faster? Because we know a lot of lot of talk really. Days has cost savings, but what the real advantages is execution speed if you can get it. If >> you could go back through four years and we had there was a lot of CEO discussions around cost savings, I'm not really have seen our clients shift. It costs never goes away, obviously right. But there's a lot greater emphasis now on business agility. You know, howto innovate faster, get getting your capabilities to market faster, to change my customer experience. So So it's really I t is really trying to step up and, you know, enabled the business toe to compete in the marketplace. We're seeing a huge shift in emphasis or focus at least starting with, you know, how'd I get better business agility outta leverage to cloud and cloud native development to get their upper service levels? Actually, we started seeing increase on Hey, you know, these applications need to work. It's actress. So So Obviously, cost still remains a factor, but we seem much more for, you know, much more emphasis on agility, you know, enabling the business on, given the right service levels of right experience to the user, little customers. Big pivot there, >> Okay. And let's get the definitions out because you know a lot of lot of conversation about public clouds, easy private clouds, easy but hybrid cloud and multi cloud and confusion about what those are. How do you guys define him? How do you help your customers think about the definition? Yes, >> I think it's a really good point. So what we're starting to see is there were a lot of different definitions out there. But I think as I talked more clients and our partners, I think we're all starting to, you know, come to ah, you know, the same kind of definition on multi cloud. It's really about using more than one cloud. But hybrid, I think, is a very important concept because hybrid is really all about the placement off the workload or where your application is going to run on. And then again, it goes to all of these points that we talked about data, gravity and performance and other things. Other factors. But it's really all about where do you place the specific look >> if you look at that, so if you think about public, I mean obviously gives us the innovation of the public providers. You look at how fast Amazon comes out with new versions of Lambda etcetera. So that's the innovations there obviously agility. You could spend up environments very quickly, which is, you know, one of the big benefits of it. The consumption, economic models. So that is the number of drivers that are pushing in the direction of public. You know, on the private side, they're still it's quite a few benefits that don't get talked about as much. Um, so you know, if you look at it, um, performance if you think the public world, you know, Although they're scaling up larger T shirts, et cetera, they're still trying to do that for a large array of applications on the private side, you can really Taylor somethingto very high performance characteristics. Whether it's you know, 30 to 64 terabyte Hana, you can get a much more focused precision environment for business. Critical workloads like that article, article rack, the Duke clusters, everything about fraud analysis. So that's a big part of it. Related to that is the data gravity that Prasad just mentioned. You know, if I've got a 64 terabyte Hana database you know, sitting in my private cloud, it may not be that convenient to go and put get that data shared up in red shift or in Google's tensorflow. So So there's some data gravity out. Networks just aren't there. The laden sea of moving that stuff around is a big issue. And then a lot of people of investments in their data centers. I mean, the other piece, that's interesting. His legacy, you know, you know, as we start to look at the world a lot, there's a ton of code still living in, You know, whether it's you, nick system, just IBM mainframes. There's a lot of business value there, and sometimes the business cases aren't aren't necessarily there toe to replace them. Right? And in world of digital, the decoupling where I can start to use micro service is we're seeing a lot of trends. We worked with one hotel to take their reservation system. You know, Rapid and Micro Service is, um, we then didn't you know, open shift couch base, front end. And now, when you go against, you know, when you go and browsing properties, you're looking at rates you actually going into distributed database cash on, you know, in using the latest cloud native technologies that could be dropped every two weeks or everything three or four days for my mobile application. And it's only when it goes, you know, when the transaction goes back, to reserve the room that it goes back there. So we're seeing a lot of power with digital decoupling, But we still need to take advantage of, you know, we've got these legacy applications. So So the data centers air really were trying to evolve them. And really, just, you know, how do we learn everything from the world of public and struck to bring those saints similar type efficiencies to the to the world of private? And really, what we're seeing is this emerging approach where I can start to take advantage of the innovation cycles. The land is that, you know, the red shifts the functions of the public world, but then maybe keep some of my more business critical regulated workloads. You know, that's the other side of the private side, right? I've got G X p compliance. If I've got hip, a data that I need to worry about GDP are there, you know, the whole set of regular two requirements. Now, over time, we do anticipate the public guys will get much better and more compliant. In fact, they made great headway already, but they're still not a number of clients are still, you know, not 100% comfortable from my client's perspective. >> Gotta meet Teresa Carlson. She'll change him, runs that AWS public sector is doing amazing things, obviously with big government contracts. But but you raise real inching point later. You almost described what I would say is really a hybrid application in this in this hotel example that you use because it's is, you know, kind of breaking the application and leveraging micro service is to do things around the core that allowed to take advantage of some this agility and hyper fast development, yet still maintain that core stuff that either doesn't need to move. Works fine, be too expensive. Drea Factor. It's a real different weight. Even think about workloads and applications into breaking those things into bits. >> And we see that pattern all over the place. I'm gonna give you the hotel Example Where? But finance, you know, look at financial service. Is retail banking so open banking a lot. All those rito applications are on the mainframe. I'm insurance claims and and you look at it the business value of replicating a lot of like the regulatory stuff, the locality stuff. It doesn't make sense to write it. There's no rule inherent business values of I can wrap it, expose it and in a micro service's architecture now D'oh cloud native front end. That's gonna give me a 360 view a customer, Change the customer experience. You know, I've got a much you know, I can still get that agility. The innovation cycles by public. Bye bye. Wrapping my legacy environment >> and percent you raided, jump in and I'll give you something to react to, Which is which is the single planet glass right now? How do I How did I manage all this stuff now? Not only do I have distributed infrastructure now, I've got distributed applications in the and the thing that you just described and everyone wants to be that single pane of glass. Everybody wants to be the app that's upon everybody. Screen. How are you seeing people deal with the management complexity of these kind of distributed infrastructures? If you >> will Yeah, I think that that's that's an area that's, ah, actually very topical these days because, you know, you're starting to see more and more workers go to private cloud. And so you've got a hybrid infrastructure you're starting to see move movement from just using the EMS to, you know, cantinas and Cuba needs. And, you know, we talked about Serval s and so on. So all of our clients are looking for a way, and you have different types of users as well. Yeah, developers. You have data scientists. You have, you know, operators and so on. So they're all looking for that control plane that allows them access and a view toe everything that is out there that is being used in the enterprise. And that's where I think you know, a company like Accenture were able to use the best of breed toe provide that visibility to our clients, >> right? Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It's becoming, you know, with all the promises, cloud and all the power. And these new architectures is becoming much more dynamic, ephemeral, with containers and kubernetes with service computing that that that one application for the hotel, they're actually started in. They've got some, actually, now running a native us of their containers and looking at surveillance. So you're gonna even a single application can span that. And one of things we've seen is is first, you know, a lot of our clients used to look at, you know, application management, you know, different from their their infrastructure. And the lines are now getting very blurry. You need to have very tight alignment. You take that single application, if any my public side goes down or my mid tier with my you know, you know, open shipped on VM, where it goes down on my back and mainframe goes down. Or the networks that connected to go down the devices that talk to it. It's a very well. Despite the power, it's a very complex environment. So what we've been doing is first we've been looking at, you know, how do we get better synergy across what we you know, Application Service's teams that do that Application manager, an optimization cloud infrastructure. How do we get better alignment that are embedded security, You know, how do you know what are managed to security service is bringing those together. And then what we did was we looked at, you know, we got very aggressive with cloud for a strategy and, you know, how do we manage the world of public? But when looking at the public providers of hyper scale, er's and how they hit Incredible degrees of automation. We really looked at, said and said, Hey, look, you gotta operate differently in this new world. What can we learn from how the public guys we're doing that We came up with this concept. We call it running different. You know, how do you operate differently in this new multi speed? You know, you know, hot, very hybrid world across public, private demon, legacy, environment, and start a look and say, OK, what is it that they do? You know, first they standardize, and that's one of the big challenges you know, going to almost all of our clients in this a sprawl. And you know, whether it's application sprawl, its infrastructure, sprawl >> and my business is so unique. The Larry no business out there has the same process that way. So >> we started make you know how to be standardized like center hybrid cloud solution important with hp envy And where we how do we that was an example of so we can get to you because you can't automate unless you standardise. So that was the first thing you know, standardizing our service catalog. Standardizing that, um you know, the next thing is the operating model. They obviously operate differently. So we've been putting a lot of time and energy and what I call a cloud and agile operating model. And also a big part of that is truly you hear a lot about Dev ops right now. But truly putting the security and and operations into Deb said cops are bringing, you know, the development in the operations much tied together. So spending a lot of time looking at that and transforming operations re Skilling the people you know, the operators of the future aren't eyes on glass there. Developers, they're writing the data ingestion, the analytic algorithms, you know, to do predictive operations. They're riding the automation script to take work, you know, test work out right. And over time they'll be tuning the aye aye engines to really optimize environment. And then finally, has Prasad alluded to Is that the platforms that control planes? That doing that? So, you know what we've been doing is we've had a significant investments in the eccentric cloud platform, our infrastructure automation platforms, and then the application teams with it with my wizard framework, and we started to bring that together you know, it's an integrated control plane that can plug into our clients environments to really manage seamlessly, you know, and provide. You know, it's automation. Analytics. Aye, aye. Across APS, cloud infrastructure and even security. Right. And that, you know, that really is a I ops, right? I mean, that's delivering on, you know, as the industry starts toe define and really coalesce around, eh? I ops. That's what we you A ups. >> So just so I'm clear that so it's really your layer your software layer kind of management layer that that integrates all these different systems and provides kind of a unified view. Control? Aye, aye. Reporting et cetera. Right? >> Exactly. Then can plug in and integrate, you know, third party tools to do straight functions. >> I'm just I'm just curious is one of the themes that we here out in the press right now is this is this kind of pull back of public cloud app, something we're coming back. Or maybe it was, you know, kind of a rush. Maybe a little bit too aggressively. What are some of the reasons why people are pulling stuff back out of public clouds that just with the wrong. It was just the wrong application. The costs were not what we anticipated to be. We find it, you know, what are some of the reasons that you see after coming back in house? Yeah, I think it's >> a variety of factors. I mean, it's certainly cost, I think is one. So as there are multiple private options and you know, we don't talk about this, but the hyper skills themselves are coming out with their own different private options like an tars and out pulls an actor stack and on. And Ali Baba has obsessed I and so on. So you see a proliferation of that, then you see many more options around around private cloud. So I think the cost is certainly a factor. The second is I think data gravity is, I think, a very important point because as you're starting to see how different applications have to work together, then that becomes a very important point. The third is just about compliance, and, you know, the regulatory environment. As we look across the globe, even outside the U. S. We look at Europe and other parts of Asia as clients and moving more to the cloud. You know that becomes an important factor. So as you start to balance these things, I think you have to take a very application centric view. You see some of those some some maps moving back, and and I think that's the part of the hybrid world is that you know, you can have a nap running on the private cloud and then tomorrow you can move this. Since it's been containerized to run on public and it's, you know, it's all managed. That >> left E. I mean, cost is a big factor if you actually look at it. Most of our clients, you know, they typically you were a big cap ex businesses, and all of a sudden they're using this consumption, you know, consumption model. And they went, really, they didn't have a function to go and look at be thousands or millions of lines of it, right? You know, as your statement Exactly. I think they misjudged, you know, some of the scale on Do you know e? I mean, that's one of the reasons we started. It's got to be an application led, you know, modernization, that really that will dictate that. And I think In many cases, people didn't. May not have thought Through which application. What data? There The data, gravity data. Gravity's a conversation I'm having just by with every client right now. And if I've got a 64 terabyte Hana and that's the core, my crown jewels that data, you know, how do I get that to tensorflow? How'd I get that? >> Right? But if Andy was here, though, and he would say we'll send down the stove, the snow came from which virgin snow plows? Snowball Snowball. Well, they're snowballs. But I have seen the whole truck killer that comes out and he'd say, Take that and stick it in the cloud. Because if you've got that data in a single source right now, you can apply multitude of applications across that thing. So they, you know, they're pushing. Get that date end in this single source. Of course. Then to move it, change it. You know, you run into all these micro lines of billing statement, take >> the hotel. I mean, their data stolen the mainframe, so if they anyone need to expose it, Yeah, they have a database cash, and they move it out, You know, particulars of data sets get larger, it becomes, you know, the data. Gravity becomes a big issue because no matter how much you know, while Moore's Law might be might have elongated from 18 to 24 months, the network will always be the bottle Mac. So ultimately, we're seeing, you know, a CZ. We proliferate more and more data, all data sets get bigger and better. The network becomes more of a bottleneck. And that's a It's a lot of times you gotta look at your applications. They have. I've got some legacy database I need to get Thio. I need this to be approximately somewhere where I don't have, you know, high bandwith. Oh, all right. Or, you know, highlight and see type. Also, egress costs a pretty big deals. My date is up in the cloud, and I'm gonna get charged for pulling it off. You know, that's being a big issue, >> you know, it's funny, I think, and I think a lot of the the issue, obviously complexity building. It's a totally from building model, but I think to a lot of people will put stuff in a public cloud and then operated as if they bought it and they're running in the data center in this kind of this. Turn it on, Turn it off when you need it. Everyone turns. Everyone loves to talk about the example turning it on when you need it. But nobody ever talks about turning it off when you don't. But it kind of close on our conversation. I won't talk about a I and applied a Iot because he has a lot of talk in the market place. But, hey, I'm machine learning. But as you guys know pride better than anybody, it's the application of a I and specific applications, which really on unlocks the value. And as we're sitting here talking about this complexity, I can't help but think that, you know, applied a I in a management layer like your run differently, set up to actually know when to turn things on, when to turn things off when you moved in but not moved, it's gonna have to be machines running that right cause the data sets and the complexity of these systems is going to be just overwhelming. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Completely agree with you. In fact, attack sensual. We actually refer to this whole area as applied intelligence on That's our guy, right? And it is absolutely to add more and more automation move everything Maur toe where it's being run by the machine rather than you know, having people really working on these things >> yet, e I mean, if you think you hit the nail on the head, we're gonna a eyes e. I mean, given how things getting complex, more ephemeral, you think about kubernetes et cetera. We're gonna have to leverage a humans or not to be able to get, you know, manage this. The environments comported right. What's interesting way we've used quite effectively for quite some time. But it's good at some stuff, not good at others. So we find it's very good at, like, ticket triage, like ticket triage, chicken rounding et cetera. You know, any time we take over account, we tune our AI ai engines. We have ticket advisers, etcetera. That's what probably got the most, you know, most bang for the buck. We tried in the network space, less success to start even with, you know, commercial products that were out there. I think where a I ultimately bails us out of this is if you look at the problem. You know, a lot of times we talked about optimizing around cost, but then performance. I mean, and it's they they're somewhat, you know, you gotta weigh him off each other. So you've got a very multi dimensional problem on howto I optimize my workloads, particularly. I gotta kubernetes cluster and something on Amazon, you know, sums running on my private cloud, etcetera. So we're gonna get some very complex environment. And the only way you're gonna be ableto optimize across multi dimensions that cost performance service levels, you know, And then multiple options don't do it public private, You know, what's my network costs etcetera. Isn't a I engine tuning that ai ai engines? So ultimately, I mean, you heard me earlier on the operators. I think you know, they write the analytic albums, they do the automation scripts, but they're the ultimate one too. Then tune the aye aye engines that will manage our environment. And I think it kubernetes will be interesting because it becomes a link to the control plane optimize workload placement. You know, between >> when the best thing to you, then you have dynamic optimization. Could you might be optimizing eggs at us right now. But you might be optimizing for output the next day. So exists really a you know, kind of Ah, never ending when you got me. They got to see them >> together with you and multi dimension. Optimization is very difficult. So I mean, you know, humans can't get their head around. Machines can, but they need to be trained. >> Well, Prasad, Larry, Lots of great opportunities for for centuries bring that expertise to the tables. So thanks for taking a few minutes to walk through some of these things. Our pleasure. Thank you, Grace. Besides Larry, I'm Jeff. 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