>>Bach from Las Vegas. It's the Q covered AWS executive summit brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of the Excenture executive summit here at AWS. Reinvent from Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by two guests for this segment. We have Greg sly, he is the SVP platform and infrastructure at Verizon. Thank you so much for coming on Greg. Thank you. Happy to be here and almost sad. K he is the managing director, Accenture global network services. Thank you so much. I'm all so Greg, I want to start with you wanting, everyone knows Verizon, it's a household brand. Tell our viewers a little bit just about how big you are, what countries you're in your reach. >>Okay. Well we're a global company. There's about 135 ish thousand employees in the company. The brands and they're, you know, they include Yahoo and AOL and HuffPost and riot and others. So we have a much more global reach with some of those brands overseas for is obviously very well known in the U S and overseas as well. And that's really where our big plays are. Now. We're big in Asia as well with our eCommerce sites and stuff. So it's, it's, it's global and it's everywhere. So, >>so give our viewers an overview of this current state of where you are in your journey to the cloud, the cloud effication of Verizon. >>Sure. So the last probably two years we've really put a lot of focus into moving out of our data centers and into the cloud. We focused primarily on workloads that are right for the cloud because we as during this journey we went, there's obviously huge data lakes and huge amounts of data equipped over two exabytes of data. And trying to move that to the cloud is obviously takes some time. But a lot of our front end apps from anything from, you know, where your order, your phone or where you order services to, whether you're on Yahoo fantasy sports or on finance page, those, those things tend to work well in the cloud and they're built for the cloud for very bursty type workflows. So we spend a lot of time moving a lot of our applications plus all the new Greenfield applications up into the cloud. So we're, we're considerable way down the path now on that. We're now getting to the tail end with these kind of massive data sets on what's our next step for those. And that's what we're working on now. >>Um, well I want to bring you into this conversation a little. What, what are you seeing right now across cross industry, the current state of deployments? >>Yeah, so I mean, just building on what Greg said it's almost a third wave of cloudification that we see now. So you know that we had the desegregation of hardware and software and most operators started to go globally towards cloud and then they sort of had the second way, which was really the own private cloud infrastructures. And now because we are here, you can see clearly the amount of public cloud infrastructure that's starting to come in and become relevant to this deployment. So it's almost a third wave where I see a lot of our clients globally looking at hybrid cloud type models for. And >>that really accelerates that cloudification journey because now you see a lot of workloads moving to a hybrid cloud environment. Just by the size of the ecosystem of suppliers and partners that are involved. We give you a sense of how accelerated this has become. I mean, the last three years I've seen in this event doubling of the number of partners who are just moving their workloads, whether it's compute, storage network to a hybrid cloud in one. So that acceleration has started and we expect in the next two to three years this will become mainstream. That I'm always right. We're been down that exact same journey where we've, we've done a lot of things up into the cloud like in AWS now, but we've also done a private cloud which enabled us as more like a development or a on-prem tool that allowed us to build, learn, and take applications that were not really ready for the cloud, are native for the cloud, build them on prem, wherever, a little bit more freedom to do some things and then learn and then move them up to the public cloud. So we've been down that exact same journey. >>So I also want to ask about a buzzword here, five G five G the arrival of five G. what it means to your industry and whether or not being in the cloud is ness is a necessary prerequisite to really capture all the benefits. >>I'm going to start on me. Sure, go ahead. No, I was just saying if you look at 5g, the reason it's so fundamentally different from previous generations is because 5g opens up a bunch of use cases that traditional TG for genetics did not and the size and skin of those use cases including like billions of devices and having really cool use cases like gaming and health and automotive and robotics in 10 places a huge burden on an infrastructure, which means cloudification does become a massive requisite. The level of skill size devices, latency profiles is something you only get when you are on a cloud infrastructure. So Greg, I agree 100% and this is going to drive new innovation that we've never seen before as we obviously being Verizon. 5g is one of our big, big bats. Obviously. That's one of the things that Andy and Hans talked about yesterday at the announcement here at reinvent and where we're seeing now with clarification, it's, it's literally I think one of the cornerstones of how it's going to work because we're going to have to put so much out to the far edge and out into as close to the customers as we can. >>The only way you're going to do that is through the cloud and using the cloud services like outpost and other services to push that out close to the, to our customers. So 5g and cloud are synonymous. They're going to go hand in hand. It's the only way it's going to work. And when, if I just save one last thing on what Greg said, cloudification was happening anyways and it was a great efficiency driver for all organizations. Five G's almost come in and lit a match and said, here's a lot of revenue opportunities that you can get on top and that has just accelerated >>the whole thing with distribution of five G and cloud. So that that's going to happen. >>Yeah, I think we're really only seeing the beginning. It's so early on in 5g and the journey to the cloud that I think next year's reinvent and the year after that I think we're going to look back and say this was really just the very beginning of what we're learning, what this technology can do for the world. >>I want to ask about innovation and this is something that Andy Jassy talked about in his fireside chat this morning is how AWS maintains its startup mentality even though it is of course a enormous company. How does, how do you think about innovation and approach innovation at Verizon? How do you make sure you are continuing to experiment and push boundaries even though you are a large and complex organization yourself? >>It's a good question. That's something we are always pushing. I think it starts from the top with Hans, he's, he's made one of his key pillars of innovation, of what we have to drive, listening to our customers and building on what they need, but we've spent a lot of time on redefining how we work to adapt to the cloud. So the days of in the past of, you know, we'll do one release every quarter, it's now how many releases a day can you do? And the only way you can do that innovation through bucket testing, through AB testing is literally embracing the cloud and doing small tests here and there on stuff. So it's really now learning from the internet startups, trying to keep that startup mentality in a company the size that's 137,000 employees. But it's building that culture and I think Hans has been a great leader to really drive that, that different way of working. So, >>um, well we've seen a dizzying number of announcements from AWS, new products and new services that are coming out. What are, what is most caught your attention and how are you thinking about how to help clients capture the benefits of what AWS is offering? >>You know, the thing that struck me yesterday when I was looking at the keynote was this is probably the first time there is a recognition in the industry that it's an ecosystem play. And what I mean by that is a lot of the challenges that were seen in the last couple of years around getting 5g mainstream, getting all these things in the market was who does it, who supports them and this whole ecosystem and yesterday's announcement where you know Andy enhance and other carriers like water, phone and so on are coming in and saying, you know what? Let's do this together. Let's collaborate. To me that really hit the Mark because as you start building specific use cases to make this real for a consumer like us, you will see that an ecosystem plays the only way to make this a reality. And that's what really struck me. If you look at Waveland, if you look at local zones, all the announcements that were done yesterday, all of them require app development communities, escalates session partnerships. It requires hardware partnerships, services firms. It requires of omic Accenture to come in and do this secret sauce. So there's lot of things that have to >>be done there. And I believe that's what really caught my eye, that it's an ecosystem. Now you have the amount of collaboration going forward. Is going to be unprecedented because no one company is going to be able to do all of it. >>So how do we, you're both technology veterans. I mean you're just babes. You're, you're just teenagers of course. But thinking about how different it is today versus when you were just beginning your careers in terms of, I mean we have this idea of this cutthroat competitive world of technology, but as you said, there is, these companies need each other. I mean they're there, they're competing of course, but they also desperately need each other to make sure their business models are successful. So can you just describe this landscape for, for our viewers in terms of what you've seen as changes and whether or not these changes are for the good? >>Well, starting in the mainframe days, which is where I started and then kind of went wound, don't, you know, windows NT and the distributed compute, you're right, it was very do it ourselves. We're the only ones that could do it. You have to hide everything from all your competitors because we're providing a solution and nobody sees anybody else a secret sauce. And obviously protecting IP was key. Now we've seen open source take a much broader stroke across the canvas and we've also now everyone's got what are we best at and how do we use that rather than trying to be all things to everybody and building partnerships. So you're right, we have partnerships with company that we compete with, but we also have relationships. We need to work together to make this happen. So it is completely different from what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago on how you're collaborating on one part of a company who should come. >>Competing is one area, but you're actually collaborating to build a product to go to market together at another one. So it's really interesting. I mean the market forces have changed dramatically. I mean, I remember when I was in my telecom operator days with BT, we used to as great selling or love technology, we used to start in the labs and in the labs we use engineering was a sort of bread and butter. And then this focus on customer centricity in the last couple of years around so much choice, so much availability of solutions in the market. And as Greg said, the collaboration is a must do now. And that's why that focus changed for us. And I see now this customer centricity becoming so important that what does the end user really want? And then that comes with it and realization that says, okay, I am not able to provide this by myself, but I do know how to solve for it. >>And that's when you have to bring in others who can create a solution. You're absolutely right because you know, 10 years ago, 1520 years ago, technology was still so new. Most people weren't comfortable yet and really knew what it could do or what they wanted. And it was a room full of architects designing what it was going to be. Now it's a room full of customers telling you what they want and going out. So it's completely changed now where we'll build what the customer, what we think the customer needs. Now we're building what the customer tells us they want. So it's been a one 80 >>so Greg, I know before the cameras were rolling, you were talking about how you'd been to this conference years ago and now just the growth that it has experienced has really shocked your, your sphere system. Um, what kinds of conversations are you having? What are the messages that you're hearing, a particular letter that are particularly resonant to you right now? This idea of the fourth industrial revolution. Do you buy it? >>I absolutely buy it and it's not just drinking the Koolaid because I work at Verizon. It's actually seeing what's possible in health. What's possible in gaming, automotive industry. Like you were saying at the beginning, it's one thing that struck me in Pedder was through the conversation we were having of how many people I've met here and when I was walking through the expo downstairs I was like, Oh, we have a relationship with them now. We have relationship with them. There's like half the floor down there that we have some sort of relationship with that were other customer or a partner or providing services to that. It's, it's, it's changed where before you'd have a booth and you're like, how many people can we get over there? Now it's like how do we get a booth with our partners that we can talk about a common solution that we're providing back? >>So it's, it's been amazing from like it reinvent four or five years ago it was like one hotel was still pretty full up to like four or five hotels now with with 65,000 people or something. It's, it's amazing. But, but the conversations before too used to be, we can only talk if we go into a private room over here. It's now that there's so many people and so many conversations and they're like, Oh let me pull them all in. Let me pull Rebecca cause we're all talking about the same thing now. So it's become more open. There's still sure there's IP and things we have to protect and we all have our company strategies, but there's now there's so much collaboration, there's a lot more conversations going on now. I mean the focus will now move to how do we operationalize this industrial revolution because that's where a lot of engineering horsepower, a lot of scaling would have to happen in terms of, it would be great to launch health as a service or gaming as a service and all of these things. >>But you know when things go wrong, which Deville in the early years of adoption, somebody is going to have to take the call, somebody is going to have to manage the customers. Somebody who's going to have to, because that's where the test would happen in terms of okay this is going to stick and this is going to work. So to me the next two to three years of this event will be around how do I operationalize and scale what we've now started? Cause I think that's where the rubber is going to hit the road. And I think even at Accenture we see this with all our work. It's moving more and more towards how do I monetize the use cases, how do I now build on it? How do I implement at scale? So that's, that's really what I see happening >>coming up. We were, we're on, we're on the cusp of 2020 there's so many new emerging technologies and of course the old technologies which are still pretty new machine learning, AI, IOT. What are some of the exciting trends that you're looking at coming in next year and the next three to five years in terms of your business and an industry wide? Two ML? >>Well for me there's obviously the stuff that we're talking about with five G and waving, but one that really struck me at this conference was how we're going to be treating data differently or I should say storage of data differently. Where before it was like buy huge storage devices and you'd have petabytes and petabytes or exabytes of data in a data somewhere, data centers somewhere. It's now distributed out to the far edge. It's, it's going to be much more in the cloud, much more dispersed. Obviously that's going to bring challenges around, you know, with, with GDPR, with, with, you know, the, the California protection act, all of those that are coming as well of how we're going to deal with that. So absolutely the 5g and the announcements went on yesterday. But in my slice of the world, looking at how are we going to manage, transform, handle, distribute data and how we're going to protect user's privacy through all of that is really interesting. And I think a new field that we're, it's just changing so rapidly day to day >>and one that's really part of our national conversation too in terms of privacy and security. >>Well I think to me the key trend would be adjacencies. And what I mean by that is we've always been a little bit siloed traditionally in terms of, you know, there is a telco industry solution and then there is a mining solution and then there is a automotive solution, right? And the technology is blurring these lines. Now, you know, like as Greg said, I can have a intelligent 5g conversation with a gentleman, car manufacturing company that I wouldn't have dreamed of having a couple of years ago. So that trend is set to accelerate because 5g edge compute, all of these things are going to be more and more applicable to adjacent industries. And this is why I always believe the telecom sector has a pivotal role, almost a orchestrator role that says as these industries look for solutions we have those, we just haven't adapted and customized are social. That I think would be a big trend. I see other industries are going to cash in on what we've done. >>I'm all, Greg, thank you so much for coming on the cube. A really fascinating conversation. Oh, pleasure. I'm Rebecca Knight. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Coming up in just a little bit.

>>Bach from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS executive summit brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. We are part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by two guests for this segment. We have Prisaad Sanker and he is a senior managing director global ICI lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Personal and Larry soccer, global managing director ICI offerings. Thank you so much for coming on Larry. So present to minister with you this week marks the one year anniversary of intelligent cloud infrastructure, a group that you lead at Accenture. Tell us a little bit more about, about, first of all why this group was formed and the journey you've had this year, the highest, the highs and lows. >>Sure, sure. So first, first of all, thank you for having us. Um, so as you mentioned, December 1st will be one year of having formed this group. And the reason we did that was because all of our clients are going through a journey of digital transformation. And it's very important for us to be able to support that journey. So there are different elements that we have to bring together around cloud as well as infrastructure. So we brought together this group, which was actually in different parts of Accenture as one particular group, and we call it intelligent cloud. And infrastructure consists of 30,000 people pretty much in every part of the world supporting all different industries. And this is a way for us to bring together not just cloud computing, but also areas like networking, workplace, digital, other digital businesses that we need to be able to support in order to be able to help our clients through their journey of transformation. >>So this, this group was formed at a time of tremendous change and upheaval and the landscape. Talk to us a little bit about, we hear so much about digital transformation, our company's ready. What's the, let us into the client mindset. >>Yeah. So what happens is, you know, different industries obviously are progressing at different speeds. All of our clients are always worried about being disrupted within their industries, either by an existing competitor all by a completely new competitor that doesn't exist. You know, all the stories about, you know, the big companies that existed and almost vanished overnight. So that's something that keeps CEOs and CIO is awake at night just worrying about that. And so digital transformation is very important for them to be relevant to their client. It's all about bringing new products to their clients and also the speed with which they can actually do that. It's no longer enough to be a fast follower. You have to be an innovator. And cloud is the way that this innovation will happen for our clients. And so it's very important for us to be able to bring our group together. We are able to support that journey for our clients. Leary >>want to bring you into this conversation a little bit. It'd be what will be required for enterprises to make this big transition. I mean, he was talking about how you need to be an innovator. You can't just be a fast follower. >> Well, I mean a lot of times I look at it just given the size, the scale of most of our clients who are really up market, most of them don't have the option to just do a rip and replace and just reinvent themselves completely. So it really is how do I very rapidly modernize and transform my business to take advantage of it? And it really needs to start with your application landscape and end data. So how do I start to look at all the possibilities of the AWS is and start to re-imagine, reinvent Duke, use cloud native technologies. Also a significant amount of their estates are already running in legacy environments. >>We get the mainframe or other environments. How do you digitally decouple those so that you can extract value out of that? And ultimately those decisions of apps and data that are going to drive cloud deployments and architectures and data gravity really becomes the key decision factor to decide where do I place this day? And it was a great example today if you saw Jesse's keynote, he announced Achla where they're actually starting to look at how do I move compute and the processing closer to the actual datasets. So actually inverting the problem and moving closer to the data. And then we see that trend starting to proliferate on the other part of the keynote that was very interesting was the five G announcement. And first you heard about AWS pushing into local zones where they were getting much distributing it out closer to them, reduce latency and really starting to push out. >>So ultimately we seen the whole landscape being transformed by data, these new application architectures and where that data resides and out to traditional world that we've known of hybrid with public and private is really transforming with the Amazon outputs, with the BMCs and stuff like that into much more one about shared and dedicated infrastructure. Then the big, the next real big thing that starts to happen then is this whole explosion of IOT. So as price performance goes down with Moore's law, we can start to see a lot more cost effective IOT solutions. And all of a sudden a world that was very centralized, you know, running up in the, in the world of the Amazons had the public cloud is not going to be much more distributed to a lot more of that compute over time gets moved out there. So we've seen a very rapidly evolving landscape. Apps and data are ultimately driving our cloud clients cloud and infrastructure investments. And they're really just trying to figure out how they can rapidly transform their environments to take advantage of this new landscape. >> So both of you are describing this exceedingly complex environment that is changing dizzying speed. I mean, just even this morning, but the Andy Jassy on stage for three hours with all of the new products and services that AWS has coming out with. What is AWS? What is ICI and Accenture doing to help clients navigate this, this, this, this landscape? Prisaad you know, our >>team is, it's not just enough for infrastructure and cloud to be a horizontal function as it used to be. We feel that, you know, one of the things that Accenture really brings to the table is our industry differentiation. Spent a lot of time analyzing the industries that our clients are in. So we've actually changed the team of ICI to be three different things. The first is to be industry led, so it's no longer good enough to be a horizontal function. We have to understand the needs of each industry and really look at how cloud and infrastructure will support that industry. The second is all about intelligence. And Larry just talked about the proliferation of data, but it's also bringing artificial intelligence, making networks much more smart, you know, really infusing intelligence into everything we do. And the third is the concept of being invisible because our clients are expecting infrastructure to just be there all the time. >>They don't really have to understand how it works, but it has to be there. It's just like going to into room and turning on a switch and you expect electricity to be there. So infrastructure has to be very much like, because it has to be ubiquitous, it has to be just available all the time. So those are the things that we are trying to bring to our clients to make it very specific for and very industry specific for for our clients. And this goes into areas like cloud computing. It goes into 5g edge is going to be a big part of what is going to happen in various industries. And as Larry talked about, IOT devices are going to be just proliferating. It's going to be billions of IOT devices. There's trillions of dollars being spent. In fact, I think the spend on IOT is probably bigger than any other area that I have seen probably in my working lifetime. So it's going to be an exciting time to come for us. >>I mean, we tend to think about artificial intelligence as this futuristic Jetsons kind of thing, but really it's, it's here. And now, Larry, can you talk a little bit about how companies are using AI and having an impact already on their businesses? I mean obviously you see a lot of AI being used for different use cases. We saw some great examples today in Jesse's keynote and we're seeing a use for video analytics for example. And AI to try to figure out predictive maintenance type activity. So there's obviously a lot of business use cases. I think what's interesting from our perspective as well is a lot of the operational use cases. So if you take a look at it with all these new innovations, the rapid pace of change that we're seeing with cloud infrastructure, that application landscape, we've started to rely pretty heavily first on analytics to how do we, how do we figure out what's going on, how do we operate efficiently, how do we make sure we don't put the businesses grist, you know, really pivoting from reactive to proactive and predictive operations. >>We've obviously automated everything as much as we can. I've see AI actually playing a very interesting role in how we optimize these environments over time. So as you get a much more complex environment, much more dynamic, and with containers, Coobernetti's, serverless compute dynamic networks that Prisaad was talking about with software defined networking, AI is going to be the only way we can tune and optimize that over time. So you've obviously got all the business use cases that we see in healthcare that we see in mining, predictive operations and stuff like that. But how we actually use AI internally is going to be critical to how we actually be able to manage cloud and infrastructure and really optimize it over time. >>W what is the client? What's, what's on your minds of your customers right now? We know that only 20% of companies out there have really adopted the cloud. Two thirds have really yet to capture the benefits of the cloud. What are you hearing from them? What are they saying to you? What are their pain points? >>So I think, you know, all of our clients realize that ultimately the cloud is going to be where they will be at. You know, data centers are existing today, but at some point, you know, everybody's going to move to the cloud. Most of our clients have taken the easier workloads and you know, the easy part has already been done. That's the first 20% but 80% of the work still remains. And that's the more complicated work that has to come. So they're looking to us to give them the right solutions. And then there's a variety of other factors to be considered. For example, they have to look at security issues. They have to understand that, you know, there are data privacy aspects to be considered. So really it's a question of matching the right private and public options. And as Larry also mentioned, probably only 30 40% of the data will actually sit in the central cloud. Most of the other data is actually gonna move out to the edge with IOT devices and so on. So data gravity, where does your dataset, where does your compute sit? And Andy talked about it as well today in his keynote address. These are all things that are going to keep evolving and I think that's going to really change the landscape. >>I think they, I think they all see the power of cloud. I mean, which in my mind it's really around the innovation cycles. You know, what you look at the pace that they're innovating with with RDS and Redshift. So they all see that power. I think the biggest thing, they struggle with our skills. And culture because how do you upskill, retrain the organization, everything from the new technologies, how to architect in the new world where it's very ephemeral, dynamic, a serverless world. How do you start to adopt those technologies? How do you operationalize it? How do you go beyond just agile and really do true dev sec ops where you're integrating security and operations built in from the ground floor. And a lot of times he's a cultural change is one of the things we see in cloud and infrastructure operations for example, is how do you take develop operators who used to be eyes on glass, looking at console's turn them into developers where they, you know, they're writing the next analytic algorithms to get to predictive there they're automating automation scripts to improve operations and ultimately tuning the AI engines that optimize it. >>And I think that skills and culture barrier is probably the hardest thing for them to overcome. And how do you just, you can't just go to the cloud, you've got to behave differently. It really have to transform how you use it, how you operate and really transform the organization and culture. >>So these change management challenges, where do you even start? Because as you said, the adopting the technology is almost the easy part, or at least the most straightforward, but really getting everyone on board and really changing people's mindsets and mentalities and dispositions and the way that they collaborate with each other and collaborate cross-functionally. So what have you learned within ICI to, to help companies? And what's your advice? >>I think, I think there are three aspects that you have to get right. In fact, I was talking to one of the CEOs of a very large client of ours, and I think you have to get three things right and you've got to get them aligned and moving at the same time. The first obviously is the technology. So you have to understand what makes sense for you, for your industry. Make the right bets because if you make a wrong decision, then you know you're going to set yourself back. So getting the technology right obviously is important. The second is operating model, making sure that you get that the right operating model in place and kicked off right, right upfront. And the third, like Larry said, is transforming your workforce. So making sure that people are, you know, have all the right skill sets when you actually have the operating model and the technology ready. So it's very important to bring all those three aspects together and a company like Accenture, with our background around consulting, around change management, around technology, we're uniquely positioned understanding our client's industries and really bringing all of those three aspects together so that we're able to position our clients to take that journey forward. >>Larry, in terms of next year's Excenture executive summit, look into your crystal ball. You've already talked about a lot of emerging technologies, IOT, edge computing have talked a lot about AI. Of course. What do you think are going to be the hot topics? Looking ahead this this year in ice with an ICI, you >>touched on earlier, I think everyone's going to be talking about data gravity. As you get these bigger and bigger data sets, it becomes, you know, the network's always going to be the bottleneck. So even with Moore's law, stretching from 18 months to 24 the amount of data we produce, particularly with IOT and edge, is really going to transform things. And even though we've got massive network upgrades like 5g coming along, it will never be enough. I mean, that comes along every 12 years. We're seeing a doubling of price performance who competed? I think data gravity, you can start to see a very different landscape where it used to be public and private and now edge is really going to be obliterated to much more seamless architecture. Then there was a lot of the keynote today, and if you start to take a look at local zones and some of the announcements today, they were ready. Amazon was heading there with green Greengrass so you can have much more seamlessness. And how do I get compute closer to the processing? You're gonna be talking a lot about clustering, clustering, compute around datasets versus the other way around. So I think we're gonna see, and I think that's going to happen pretty fast. Usually a lot of this stuff we've been talking about IOT for years. I do think we're on the tipping point. I think we're about to see exponential growth just as price performance >>comes together. Some of the technologies had gotten gotten there, but, but I think that the whole focus on data and data gravity is what you're going to hear a lot about next year. I can't wait to hear the AWS reinvent band. Do a little pink Floyd or something like that for data gravity. We'll Larry and Prisaad. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. It was a pleasure having you on. Thanks for Brooke. I'm Rebecca night's stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit.