>> Good afternoon everyone, and welcome back to theCUBE where we're coming to you live from Detroit, Michigan at KubeCon and Cloud Native Con. We're going to keep theCUBE puns coming this afternoon because we have the pleasure of being joined by not one but two guests from Kubiya. John Furrier, my wonderful co-host. You're familiar with these guys. You just chatted with them last week. >> We broke the story of their launch and featured them on theCUBE in our studio conversation. This is a great segment. Real innovative company with lofty goals, and they're really good ones. Looking forward to it. >> If that's not a tease to keep watching I don't know what is. (John laughs) Without further ado, on that note, allow me to introduce Amit and Shaked who are here to tell us all about Kubiya. And I'm going to blow the pitch for you a little bit just because this gets me excited. (all laugh) They're essentially the Siri of DevOps, but that means you can, you can create using voice or chat or any medium. Am I right? Is this? Yeah? >> You're hired. >> Excellent. (all laugh) >> Okay. >> We'll take it. >> Who knows what I'll tell the chat to do or what I'll, what I will control with my voice, but I love where you're. >> Absolutely. I'll just give the high level. Conversational AI for the world of DevOps. Kind of redefining how self-service DevOps is supposed to be essentially accessed, right? As opposed to just having siloed information. You know, having different platforms that require an operator or somebody who's using it to know exactly how they're accessing what they're doing and so forth. Essentially, the ability to express your intent in natural language, English, or any language I use. >> It's quite literally the language barrier sometimes. >> Precisely. >> Both from the spoken as well as code language. And it sounds like you're eliminating that as an obstacle. >> We're essentially saying, turn simple, complex cast into simple conversations. That's, that's really what we're saying here. >> So let's get into the launch. You just launched a fresh startup. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> So you guys are going to take on the world. Lofty goals if that. I had the briefing. Where's the origination story come from? What, how did you guys get here? Was it a problem that you saw, you were experiencing, an itch you were scratching? What was the motivation and what's the origination story? >> Shaked: So. >> Amit: Okay, go first please. >> Essentially everything started with my experience as being an operator. I used to be a DevOps engineer for a few years for a large (indistinct) company. On later stages I even managed an SRE team. So all of these access requires Q and A staff is something that I experience nonstop on Slack or Teams, all of these communication channels. And usually I find out that everything happens from the chat. So essentially back then I created a chat bot. I connect this chat bot to the different organizational tools, and instead of the developers approaching to me or the team using the on call channel or directly they will just approach the bot. But essentially the bot was very naive, and they still needed to know what they, they want to do inside the bot. But it's still managed to solve 70% of the complexity and the toil on us as a team so we could focus on innovation. So Kubiya's a more advanced version of it. Basically with Kubiya you can define what we call workflows, and we convert all of these complexity of access request into simple conversations that the end users, which could be developers, but not only, are having with a DevOps team. So that's essentially how it works, and we're very excited about it. >> So you were up all night answering the same question over and over again. (all laugh) And you said, Hey, screw it. I'm going to just create a bot, bot myself up. (Shaked laughs) But it gets at something important. I mean, I'm not just joking. It probably happened, right? That was probably the case. You were up all night telling. >> Yeah, I mean it was usually stuff that we didn't need to maintain. It was training requests and questions that just keep on repeating themselves. And actually we were in Israel, but we sell three different time zones of developers. So all of these developers, as soon as the day finishes in Israel, the day in the US started. So they will approach us from the US. So we didn't really sleep. (all laugh) As with these requests non-stop. >> It's that 24 hour. >> Yeah, yeah. 24 hours for a single team. >> So the world clock global (indistinct) catches you a little sometimes. Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So you basically take all the things that you know that are common and then make a chat bot answering as if you're you. But this brings up the whole question of chat bot utilization. There's been a lot of debate in the AI circles that chat bots really haven't made it. They're not, they haven't been good enough. So 'cause NLP and other trivial, >> Amit: Sure. or things that haven't really clicked. What's different now? How do you guys see your approach cracking the code to go that kind of reasoning level? Bots can reason? Now we're in business. >> Yeah. Most of the chat bots are general purpose, right? We're coming with the domain expertise. We know the pain from the inside. We know how the operators want to define such conversations that users might have with the virtual assistant. So we combined all of the technical tools that are needed in order to get it going. So we have a a DSL, domain specific language, where the operators can define these easy conversations and combine all of the different organizational tools which can be done using DSDK. Besides this fact, we have a no code, for less technical people to create such workflows even with no code interface. And we have a CLI, which you could use to leverage the power of the virtual assist even right from your terminal. So that's how I see the domain expertise coming in that we have different communication channels for everyone that needs to be inside the loop. >> That's awesome. >> And I, and I can add to that. So that's one element, which is the domain expertise. The other one is really our huge differentiator, the ability to let the end users influence the system itself. So essentially. >> John: Like how? Give me an example. >> Sure. We call it teach me feature, but essentially if you have any type of a request and the system hasn't created an automation or hasn't, doesn't recognize it, you can go ahead and bind that into your intent and next time, and you can define the scope for yourself only, for the team, or even for the entire organization that actually has to have permission to access the request and control and so on. >> Savannah: That's something. Yeah, I love that as a knowledge base. I mean a custom tool kit. >> Absolutely. >> And I like that you just said for the individual. So let's say I have some crazy workflows that I don't need anybody else to know about. >> 100 percent. >> I can customize my experience. >> Mm hmm. >> Do you see your, this is really interesting, and I'm, it's surprising to me we haven't seen a lot of players in this space before because what you're doing makes a lot of sense to me, especially as someone who is less technical. >> Yeah. >> Do you view yourselves as a gateway tool for more folks to be involved in more complex technology? >> So, so I'll take that. It's not that we haven't seen advanced virtual assistants. They've existed in different worlds. >> Savannah: Right. >> Up until now they've existed more in CRM tools. >> Savannah: Right. >> Call centers, right? >> Shaked: Yeah. >> You go on to Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, you go and chat with. Now imagine you can bring that into a world of dev tools that has high domain expertise, high technical amplitude, and now you can go and combine the domain expertise with the accessibility of conversational AI. That's, that's a unique feature here. >> What's the biggest thing that's surprised you with the launch so far? The reaction to the name, Kubiya, which is Cube in Hebrew. >> Amit: Yes. >> Apparently. >> Savannah: Which I love. >> Which by the way, you know, we have a TM and R on our Cube. (all laugh) So we can talk, you know, license rights. >> Let's drop the trademark rules today, John, here. We're here to share information. Confuse the audience. Sorry about that, by the way. (all laugh) >> We're an open source, inclusive culture. We'll let it slide this time. >> The KubeCon, theCUBE, and Kubiya. (John laughs) In the Hebrew we have this saying, third time we all have ice cream. So. (all laugh) >> I think there's some ice cream over there actually. >> There is. >> Yeah, yeah. There you go. >> All kidding aside, all fun. What's, what's been the reaction? Got some press coverage. We had the launch. You guys launched with theCUBE in here, big reception. What's been the common feedback? >> And really, I think I expected this, but I didn't expect this much. Really, the fact that people really believe in our thesis, really expect great things from us, right? We've starting to working with. >> Savannah: Now the pressure's on. >> Rolling out dozens of POCs, but even that requires obviously a lot of attention to the detail, which we're rolling out. This is effectively what we're seeing. People love the fact that you have a unique and fresh way to approaching the self-service which really has been stalled for a while. And we've recognized that. I think our thesis is where we. >> Okay, so as a startup you have lofty goals, you have investors now. >> Amit: Yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Amit: Thank you. >> They're going to want to keep the traction going, but as a north star, what's your, what are you going to, what are you going to take? What territory are you going to take? Is it new territory? Are you eating someone's lunch? Who are you going to be competing with? What's the target? What's the, what's the? >> Sure, sure. >> I'm sure you guys have it. Who are you takin' over? >> I think the gateway, the entry point to every organization is a bottleneck. You solve the hard problem first. That's where you can go into other directions, and you can imagine where other operational workflows and pains that we can help solve once we have essentially the DevOps. >> John: So you see this as greenfield, new opportunity? >> I believe so. >> Is there any incumbent you see out there? An old stodgy? >> Today we're on internal developer platform service catalog type of, you know, use cases. >> John: Yeah. >> But that's kind of where we can grow from there and have the ecosystem essentially embrace us. >> John: How about the technology platform? >> Amit: Yeah. >> What's the vision for the innovation? >> Essentially want to be able to integrate with all of the different cloud providers, cloud solutions, SaaS platforms, and take the atlas approach that they were using right to the chats from everywhere to anywhere. So essentially we want in the end that users will be able to do anything that they need inside all of these complicated platforms, which some of them are totally complicated, with plain English. >> So what's the biggest challenge for you then on that front leading the technology side of the team? >> So I would say that the conversational AI part is truly complicated because it requires to extract many types of intentions from different types of users and also integrate with so many tools and solutions. >> Savannah: Yeah. So it requires a lot of thinking, a lot of architecture, but we are doing it just fine. >> Awesome. What do you guys think about KubeCon this week? What's, what's the top story that you see emerging out of this? Just generally as an industry observer, what's the most important? >> Savannah: Maybe it's them. Announcement halo. >> What's the cover story that you see? (all laugh) I mean you guys are in the innovation intent-based infrastructure. I get that. >> So obviously everyone's looking to diversify their engineering, diversify their platforms to make sure they're as decoupled from the main CSPs as possible. So being able to build their own, and we're really helping enable a lot of that in there. We're really helping improve upon that open source together with managed platforms can really play a very nice game together. So. >> Awesome. So are you guys hiring, recruiting? Tell us about the team DNA. Now you're in Tel Aviv. You're in the bay. >> Shaked: Check our openings on LinkedIn. (all laugh) >> We have a dozen job postings on our website. Obviously engineering and sales then go to market. >> So when theCUBE comes to Tel Aviv, and we have a location there. >> Yeah. >> Will you be, share some space? >> Savannah: Is this our Tel Aviv office happening right now? I love this. >> Amit: We will be hosting you. >> John: theCube with a C and Kube with a K over there. >> Yeah. >> All one happy family. >> Would love that. >> Get some ice cream. >> Would love that. >> All right, so last question for you all. You just had a very big exciting announcement. It's a bit of a coming out party for you. What do you hope to be able to say in a year that you can't currently say right now? When you join us on theCUBE next time? >> No, no, it's absolutely. I think our thesis that you can turn conversations into operations. It's, it sounds obvious to you when you think about it, but it's not trivial when you look into the workflows, into the operations. The fact that we can actually go a year from today and say we got hundreds of customers, happy customers who've proven the thesis or sharing knowledge between themselves, that would be euphoric for us. >> All right. >> You really are about helping people. >> Absolutely. >> It doesn't seem like it's a lip service from both of you. >> No. (all laugh) >> Is there going to be levels of bot, like level one bot level two, level three, and then finally the SRE gets on the phone? Is that like some point? >> Is there going to be bot singularity? Is that, is that what we're exploring right now? (overlapping chatter) >> Some kind of escalation bot. >> Enlightenment with bots. >> We actually planning a feature we want to call a handoff where a human in the loop is required, which often is needed. Machine cannot do it alone. We'll just. >> Yeah, I think it makes total sense for geos, ops at the same. >> Shaked: Yeah. >> But not exactly the same. Really good, good solution. I love the direction. Congratulations on the launch. >> Shaked: Thank you so much. >> Amit: Thank you very much. >> Yeah, that's very exciting. You can obviously look, check out that news on Silicon Angle since we had the pleasure of breaking it. >> Absolutely. >> If people would like to say hi, stalk you on the internet, where's the best place for them to do that? >> Be on our Twitter and LinkedIn handles of course. So we have kubiya.ai. We also have a free trial until the end of the year, and we also have free forever tier, that people can sign up, play, and come say hi. I mean, we'd love to chat. >> I love it. Well, Amit, Shaked, thank you so much for being with us. >> Shaked: Thank you so much. >> John, thanks for sitting to my left for the entire day. I sincerely appreciate it. >> Just glad I can help out. >> And thank you all for tuning in to this wonderful edition of theCUBE Live from Detroit at KubeCon. Who knows what my voice will be controlling next, but either way, I hope you are there to find out. >> Amit: Love it.

hello I'm John Furrier with thecube and welcome to this special presentation of the cube and Horizon 3.ai they're announcing a global partner first approach expanding their successful pen testing product Net Zero you're going to hear from leading experts in their staff their CEO positioning themselves for a successful Channel distribution expansion internationally in Europe Middle East Africa and Asia Pacific in this Cube special presentation you'll hear about the expansion the expanse partner program giving Partners a unique opportunity to offer Net Zero to their customers Innovation and Pen testing is going International with Horizon 3.ai enjoy the program [Music] welcome back everyone to the cube and Horizon 3.ai special presentation I'm John Furrier host of thecube we're here with Jennifer Lee head of Channel sales at Horizon 3.ai Jennifer welcome to the cube thanks for coming on great well thank you for having me so big news around Horizon 3.aa driving Channel first commitment you guys are expanding the channel partner program to include all kinds of new rewards incentives training programs help educate you know Partners really drive more recurring Revenue certainly cloud and Cloud scale has done that you got a great product that fits into that kind of Channel model great Services you can wrap around it good stuff so let's get into it what are you guys doing what are what are you guys doing with this news why is this so important yeah for sure so um yeah we like you said we recently expanded our Channel partner program um the driving force behind it was really just um to align our like you said our Channel first commitment um and creating awareness around the importance of our partner ecosystems um so that's it's really how we go to market is is through the channel and a great International Focus I've talked with the CEO so you know about the solution and he broke down all the action on why it's important on the product side but why now on the go to market change what's the what's the why behind this big this news on the channel yeah for sure so um we are doing this now really to align our business strategy which is built on the concept of enabling our partners to create a high value high margin business on top of our platform and so um we offer a solution called node zero it provides autonomous pen testing as a service and it allows organizations to continuously verify their security posture um so we our company vision we have this tagline that states that our pen testing enables organizations to see themselves Through The Eyes of an attacker and um we use the like the attacker's perspective to identify exploitable weaknesses and vulnerabilities so we created this partner program from a perspective of the partner so the partner's perspective and we've built It Through The Eyes of our partner right so we're prioritizing really what the partner is looking for and uh will ensure like Mutual success for us yeah the partners always want to get in front of the customers and bring new stuff to them pen tests have traditionally been really expensive uh and so bringing it down in one to a service level that's one affordable and has flexibility to it allows a lot of capability so I imagine people getting excited by it so I have to ask you about the program What specifically are you guys doing can you share any details around what it means for the partners what they get what's in it for them can you just break down some of the mechanics and mechanisms or or details yeah yep um you know we're really looking to create business alignment um and like I said establish Mutual success with our partners so we've got two um two key elements that we were really focused on um that we bring to the partners so the opportunity the profit margin expansion is one of them and um a way for our partners to really differentiate themselves and stay relevant in the market so um we've restructured our discount model really um you know highlighting profitability and maximizing profitability and uh this includes our deal registration we've we've created deal registration program we've increased discount for partners who take part in our partner certification uh trainings and we've we have some other partner incentives uh that we we've created that that's going to help out there we've we put this all so we've recently Gone live with our partner portal um it's a Consolidated experience for our partners where they can access our our sales tools and we really view our partners as an extension of our sales and Technical teams and so we've extended all of our our training material that we use internally we've made it available to our partners through our partner portal um we've um I'm trying I'm thinking now back what else is in that partner portal here we've got our partner certification information so all the content that's delivered during that training can be found in the portal we've got deal registration uh um co-branded marketing materials pipeline management and so um this this portal gives our partners a One-Stop place to to go to find all that information um and then just really quickly on the second part of that that I mentioned is our technology really is um really disruptive to the market so you know like you said autonomous pen testing it's um it's still it's well it's still still relatively new topic uh for security practitioners and um it's proven to be really disruptive so um that on top of um just well recently we found an article that um that mentioned by markets and markets that reports that the global pen testing markets really expanding and so it's expected to grow to like 2.7 billion um by 2027. so the Market's there right the Market's expanding it's growing and so for our partners it's just really allows them to grow their revenue um across their customer base expand their customer base and offering this High profit margin while you know getting in early to Market on this just disruptive technology big Market a lot of opportunities to make some money people love to put more margin on on those deals especially when you can bring a great solution that everyone knows is hard to do so I think that's going to provide a lot of value is there is there a type of partner that you guys see emerging or you aligning with you mentioned the alignment with the partners I can see how that the training and the incentives are all there sounds like it's all going well is there a type of partner that's resonating the most or is there categories of partners that can take advantage of this yeah absolutely so we work with all different kinds of Partners we work with our traditional resale Partners um we've worked we're working with systems integrators we have a really strong MSP mssp program um we've got Consulting partners and the Consulting Partners especially with the ones that offer pen test services so we they use us as a as we act as a force multiplier just really offering them profit margin expansion um opportunity there we've got some technology partner partners that we really work with for co-cell opportunities and then we've got our Cloud Partners um you'd mentioned that earlier and so we are in AWS Marketplace so our ccpo partners we're part of the ISP accelerate program um so we we're doing a lot there with our Cloud partners and um of course we uh we go to market with uh distribution Partners as well gotta love the opportunity for more margin expansion every kind of partner wants to put more gross profit on their deals is there a certification involved I have to ask is there like do you get do people get certified or is it just you get trained is it self-paced training is it in person how are you guys doing the whole training certification thing because is that is that a requirement yeah absolutely so we do offer a certification program and um it's been very popular this includes a a seller's portion and an operator portion and and so um this is at no cost to our partners and um we operate both virtually it's it's law it's virtually but live it's not self-paced and we also have in person um you know sessions as well and we also can customize these to any partners that have a large group of people and we can just we can do one in person or virtual just specifically for that partner well any kind of incentive opportunities and marketing opportunities everyone loves to get the uh get the deals just kind of rolling in leads from what we can see if our early reporting this looks like a hot product price wise service level wise what incentive do you guys thinking about and and Joint marketing you mentioned co-sell earlier in pipeline so I was kind of kind of honing in on that piece sure and yes and then to follow along with our partner certification program we do incentivize our partners there if they have a certain number certified their discount increases so that's part of it we have our deal registration program that increases discount as well um and then we do have some um some partner incentives that are wrapped around meeting setting and um moving moving opportunities along to uh proof of value gotta love the education driving value I have to ask you so you've been around the industry you've seen the channel relationships out there you're seeing companies old school new school you know uh Horizon 3.ai is kind of like that new school very cloud specific a lot of Leverage with we mentioned AWS and all the clouds um why is the company so hot right now why did you join them and what's why are people attracted to this company what's the what's the attraction what's the vibe what do you what do you see and what what do you use what did you see in in this company well this is just you know like I said it's very disruptive um it's really in high demand right now and um and and just because because it's new to Market and uh a newer technology so we are we can collaborate with a manual pen tester um we can you know we can allow our customers to run their pen test um with with no specialty teams and um and and then so we and like you know like I said we can allow our partners can actually build businesses profitable businesses so we can they can use our product to increase their services revenue and um and build their business model you know around around our services what's interesting about the pen test thing is that it's very expensive and time consuming the people who do them are very talented people that could be working on really bigger things in the in absolutely customers so bringing this into the channel allows them if you look at the price Delta between a pen test and then what you guys are offering I mean that's a huge margin Gap between street price of say today's pen test and what you guys offer when you show people that they follow do they say too good to be true I mean what are some of the things that people say when you kind of show them that are they like scratch their head like come on what's the what's the catch here right so the cost savings is a huge is huge for us um and then also you know like I said working as a force multiplier with a pen testing company that offers the services and so they can they can do their their annual manual pen tests that may be required around compliance regulations and then we can we can act as the continuous verification of their security um um you know that that they can run um weekly and so it's just um you know it's just an addition to to what they're offering already and an expansion so Jennifer thanks for coming on thecube really appreciate you uh coming on sharing the insights on the channel uh what's next what can we expect from the channel group what are you thinking what's going on right so we're really looking to expand our our Channel um footprint and um very strategically uh we've got um we've got some big plans um for for Horizon 3.ai awesome well thanks for coming on really appreciate it you're watching thecube the leader in high tech Enterprise coverage [Music] [Music] hello and welcome to the Cube's special presentation with Horizon 3.ai with Raina Richter vice president of emea Europe Middle East and Africa and Asia Pacific APAC for Horizon 3 today welcome to this special Cube presentation thanks for joining us thank you for the invitation so Horizon 3 a guy driving Global expansion big international news with a partner first approach you guys are expanding internationally let's get into it you guys are driving this new expanse partner program to new heights tell us about it what are you seeing in the momentum why the expansion what's all the news about well I would say uh yeah in in international we have I would say a similar similar situation like in the US um there is a global shortage of well-educated penetration testers on the one hand side on the other side um we have a raising demand of uh network and infrastructure security and with our approach of an uh autonomous penetration testing I I believe we are totally on top of the game um especially as we have also now uh starting with an international instance that means for example if a customer in Europe is using uh our service node zero he will be connected to a node zero instance which is located inside the European Union and therefore he has doesn't have to worry about the conflict between the European the gdpr regulations versus the US Cloud act and I would say there we have a total good package for our partners that they can provide differentiators to their customers you know we've had great conversations here on thecube with the CEO and the founder of the company around the leverage of the cloud and how successful that's been for the company and honestly I can just Connect the Dots here but I'd like you to weigh in more on how that translates into the go to market here because you got great Cloud scale with with the security product you guys are having success with great leverage there I've seen a lot of success there what's the momentum on the channel partner program internationally why is it so important to you is it just the regional segmentation is it the economics why the momentum well there are it's there are multiple issues first of all there is a raising demand in penetration testing um and don't forget that uh in international we have a much higher level in number a number or percentage in SMB and mid-market customers so these customers typically most of them even didn't have a pen test done once a year so for them pen testing was just too expensive now with our offering together with our partners we can provide different uh ways how customers could get an autonomous pen testing done more than once a year with even lower costs than they had with with a traditional manual paint test so and that is because we have our uh Consulting plus package which is for typically pain testers they can go out and can do a much faster much quicker and their pain test at many customers once in after each other so they can do more pain tests on a lower more attractive price on the other side there are others what even the same ones who are providing um node zero as an mssp service so they can go after s p customers saying okay well you only have a couple of hundred uh IP addresses no worries we have the perfect package for you and then you have let's say the mid Market let's say the thousands and more employees then they might even have an annual subscription very traditional but for all of them it's all the same the customer or the service provider doesn't need a piece of Hardware they only need to install a small piece of a Docker container and that's it and that makes it so so smooth to go in and say okay Mr customer we just put in this this virtual attacker into your network and that's it and and all the rest is done and within within three clicks they are they can act like a pen tester with 20 years of experience and that's going to be very Channel friendly and partner friendly I can almost imagine so I have to ask you and thank you for calling the break calling out that breakdown and and segmentation that was good that was very helpful for me to understand but I want to follow up if you don't mind um what type of partners are you seeing the most traction with and why well I would say at the beginning typically you have the the innovators the early adapters typically Boutique size of Partners they start because they they are always looking for Innovation and those are the ones you they start in the beginning so we have a wide range of Partners having mostly even um managed by the owner of the company so uh they immediately understand okay there is the value and they can change their offering they're changing their offering in terms of penetration testing because they can do more pen tests and they can then add other ones or we have those ones who offer 10 tests services but they did not have their own pen testers so they had to go out on the open market and Source paint testing experts um to get the pen test at a particular customer done and now with node zero they're totally independent they can't go out and say okay Mr customer here's the here's the service that's it we turn it on and within an hour you're up and running totally yeah and those pen tests are usually expensive and hard to do now it's right in line with the sales delivery pretty interesting for a partner absolutely but on the other hand side we are not killing the pain testers business we do something we're providing with no tiers I would call something like the foundation work the foundational work of having an an ongoing penetration testing of the infrastructure the operating system and the pen testers by themselves they can concentrate in the future on things like application pen testing for example so those Services which we we're not touching so we're not killing the paint tester Market we're just taking away the ongoing um let's say foundation work call it that way yeah yeah that was one of my questions I was going to ask is there's a lot of interest in this autonomous pen testing one because it's expensive to do because those skills are required are in need and they're expensive so you kind of cover the entry level and the blockers that are in there I've seen people say to me this pen test becomes a blocker for getting things done so there's been a lot of interest in the autonomous pen testing and for organizations to have that posture and it's an overseas issue too because now you have that that ongoing thing so can you explain that particular benefit for an organization to have that continuously verifying an organization's posture yep certainly so I would say um typically you are you you have to do your patches you have to bring in new versions of operating systems of different Services of uh um operating systems of some components and and they are always bringing new vulnerabilities the difference here is that with node zero we are telling the customer or the partner package we're telling them which are the executable vulnerabilities because previously they might have had um a vulnerability scanner so this vulnerability scanner brought up hundreds or even thousands of cves but didn't say anything about which of them are vulnerable really executable and then you need an expert digging in one cve after the other finding out is it is it really executable yes or no and that is where you need highly paid experts which we have a shortage so with notes here now we can say okay we tell you exactly which ones are the ones you should work on because those are the ones which are executable we rank them accordingly to the risk level how easily they can be used and by a sudden and then the good thing is convert it or indifference to the traditional penetration test they don't have to wait for a year for the next pain test to find out if the fixing was effective they weren't just the next scan and say Yes closed vulnerability is gone the time is really valuable and if you're doing any devops Cloud native you're always pushing new things so pen test ongoing pen testing is actually a benefit just in general as a kind of hygiene so really really interesting solution really bring that global scale is going to be a new new coverage area for us for sure I have to ask you if you don't mind answering what particular region are you focused on or plan to Target for this next phase of growth well at this moment we are concentrating on the countries inside the European Union Plus the United Kingdom um but we are and they are of course logically I'm based into Frankfurt area that means we cover more or less the countries just around so it's like the total dark region Germany Switzerland Austria plus the Netherlands but we also already have Partners in the nordics like in Finland or in Sweden um so it's it's it it's rapidly we have Partners already in the UK and it's rapidly growing so I'm for example we are now starting with some activities in Singapore um um and also in the in the Middle East area um very important we uh depending on let's say the the way how to do business currently we try to concentrate on those countries where we can have um let's say um at least English as an accepted business language great is there any particular region you're having the most success with right now is it sounds like European Union's um kind of first wave what's them yes that's the first definitely that's the first wave and now we're also getting the uh the European instance up and running it's clearly our commitment also to the market saying okay we know there are certain dedicated uh requirements and we take care of this and and we're just launching it we're building up this one uh the instance um in the AWS uh service center here in Frankfurt also with some dedicated Hardware internet in a data center in Frankfurt where we have with the date six by the way uh the highest internet interconnection bandwidth on the planet so we have very short latency to wherever you are on on the globe that's a great that's a great call outfit benefit too I was going to ask that what are some of the benefits your partners are seeing in emea and Asia Pacific well I would say um the the benefits is for them it's clearly they can they can uh talk with customers and can offer customers penetration testing which they before and even didn't think about because it penetrates penetration testing in a traditional way was simply too expensive for them too complex the preparation time was too long um they didn't have even have the capacity uh to um to support a pain an external pain tester now with this service you can go in and say even if they Mr customer we can do a test with you in a couple of minutes within we have installed the docker container within 10 minutes we have the pen test started that's it and then we just wait and and I would say that is we'll we are we are seeing so many aha moments then now because on the partner side when they see node zero the first time working it's like this wow that is great and then they work out to customers and and show it to their typically at the beginning mostly the friendly customers like wow that's great I need that and and I would say um the feedback from the partners is that is a service where I do not have to evangelize the customer everybody understands penetration testing I don't have to say describe what it is they understand the customer understanding immediately yes penetration testing good about that I know I should do it but uh too complex too expensive now with the name is for example as an mssp service provided from one of our partners but it's getting easy yeah it's great and it's great great benefit there I mean I gotta say I'm a huge fan of what you guys are doing I like this continuous automation that's a major benefit to anyone doing devops or any kind of modern application development this is just a godsend for them this is really good and like you said the pen testers that are doing it they were kind of coming down from their expertise to kind of do things that should have been automated they get to focus on the bigger ticket items that's a really big point so we free them we free the pain testers for the higher level elements of the penetration testing segment and that is typically the application testing which is currently far away from being automated yeah and that's where the most critical workloads are and I think this is the nice balance congratulations on the international expansion of the program and thanks for coming on this special presentation really I really appreciate it thank you you're welcome okay this is thecube special presentation you know check out pen test automation International expansion Horizon 3 dot AI uh really Innovative solution in our next segment Chris Hill sector head for strategic accounts will discuss the power of Horizon 3.ai and Splunk in action you're watching the cube the leader in high tech Enterprise coverage foreign [Music] [Music] welcome back everyone to the cube and Horizon 3.ai special presentation I'm John Furrier host of thecube we're with Chris Hill sector head for strategic accounts and federal at Horizon 3.ai a great Innovative company Chris great to see you thanks for coming on thecube yeah like I said uh you know great to meet you John long time listener first time caller so excited to be here with you guys yeah we were talking before camera you had Splunk back in 2013 and I think 2012 was our first splunk.com and boy man you know talk about being in the right place at the right time now we're at another inflection point and Splunk continues to be relevant um and continuing to have that data driving Security in that interplay and your CEO former CTO of his plug as well at Horizon who's been on before really Innovative product you guys have but you know yeah don't wait for a breach to find out if you're logging the right data this is the topic of this thread Splunk is very much part of this new international expansion announcement uh with you guys tell us what are some of the challenges that you see where this is relevant for the Splunk and Horizon AI as you guys expand uh node zero out internationally yeah well so across so you know my role uh within Splunk it was uh working with our most strategic accounts and so I looked back to 2013 and I think about the sales process like working with with our small customers you know it was um it was still very siled back then like I was selling to an I.T team that was either using this for it operations um we generally would always even say yeah although we do security we weren't really designed for it we're a log management tool and we I'm sure you remember back then John we were like sort of stepping into the security space and and the public sector domain that I was in you know security was 70 of what we did when I look back to sort of uh the transformation that I was witnessing in that digital transformation um you know when I look at like 2019 to today you look at how uh the IT team and the security teams are being have been forced to break down those barriers that they used to sort of be silent away would not commute communicate one you know the security guys would be like oh this is my box I.T you're not allowed in today you can't get away with that and I think that the value that we bring to you know and of course Splunk has been a huge leader in that space and continues to do Innovation across the board but I think what we've we're seeing in the space and I was talking with Patrick Coughlin the SVP of uh security markets about this is that you know what we've been able to do with Splunk is build a purpose-built solution that allows Splunk to eat more data so Splunk itself is ulk know it's an ingest engine right the great reason people bought it was you could build these really fast dashboards and grab intelligence out of it but without data it doesn't do anything right so how do you drive and how do you bring more data in and most importantly from a customer perspective how do you bring the right data in and so if you think about what node zero and what we're doing in a horizon 3 is that sure we do pen testing but because we're an autonomous pen testing tool we do it continuously so this whole thought I'd be like oh crud like my customers oh yeah we got a pen test coming up it's gonna be six weeks the week oh yeah you know and everyone's gonna sit on their hands call me back in two months Chris we'll talk to you then right not not a real efficient way to test your environment and shoot we saw that with Uber this week right um you know and that's a case where we could have helped oh just right we could explain the Uber thing because it was a contractor just give a quick highlight of what happened so you can connect the doctor yeah no problem so um it was uh I got I think it was yeah one of those uh you know games where they would try and test an environment um and with the uh pen tester did was he kept on calling them MFA guys being like I need to reset my password we need to set my right password and eventually the um the customer service guy said okay I'm resetting it once he had reset and bypassed the multi-factor authentication he then was able to get in and get access to the building area that he was in or I think not the domain but he was able to gain access to a partial part of that Network he then paralleled over to what I would assume is like a VA VMware or some virtual machine that had notes that had all of the credentials for logging into various domains and So within minutes they had access and that's the sort of stuff that we do you know a lot of these tools like um you know you think about the cacophony of tools that are out there in a GTA architect architecture right I'm gonna get like a z-scale or I'm going to have uh octum and I have a Splunk I've been into the solar system I mean I don't mean to name names we have crowdstriker or Sentinel one in there it's just it's a cacophony of things that don't work together they weren't designed work together and so we have seen so many times in our business through our customer support and just working with customers when we do their pen tests that there will be 5 000 servers out there three are misconfigured those three misconfigurations will create the open door because remember the hacker only needs to be right once the defender needs to be right all the time and that's the challenge and so that's what I'm really passionate about what we're doing uh here at Horizon three I see this my digital transformation migration and security going on which uh we're at the tip of the spear it's why I joined sey Hall coming on this journey uh and just super excited about where the path's going and super excited about the relationship with Splunk I get into more details on some of the specifics of that but um you know well you're nailing I mean we've been doing a lot of things on super cloud and this next gen environment we're calling it next gen you're really seeing devops obviously devsecops has already won the it role has moved to the developer shift left is an indicator of that it's one of the many examples higher velocity code software supply chain you hear these things that means that it is now in the developer hands it is replaced by the new Ops data Ops teams and security where there's a lot of horizontal thinking to your point about access there's no more perimeter huge 100 right is really right on things one time you know to get in there once you're in then you can hang out move around move laterally big problem okay so we get that now the challenges for these teams as they are transitioning organizationally how do they figure out what to do okay this is the next step they already have Splunk so now they're kind of in transition while protecting for a hundred percent ratio of success so how would you look at that and describe the challenge is what do they do what is it what are the teams facing with their data and what's next what are they what are they what action do they take so let's use some vernacular that folks will know so if I think about devsecops right we both know what that means that I'm going to build security into the app it normally talks about sec devops right how am I building security around the perimeter of what's going inside my ecosystem and what are they doing and so if you think about what we're able to do with somebody like Splunk is we can pen test the entire environment from Soup To Nuts right so I'm going to test the end points through to its I'm going to look for misconfigurations I'm going to I'm going to look for um uh credential exposed credentials you know I'm going to look for anything I can in the environment again I'm going to do it at light speed and and what what we're doing for that SEC devops space is to you know did you detect that we were in your environment so did we alert Splunk or the Sim that there's someone in the environment laterally moving around did they more importantly did they log us into their environment and when do they detect that log to trigger that log did they alert on us and then finally most importantly for every CSO out there is going to be did they stop us and so that's how we we do this and I think you when speaking with um stay Hall before you know we've come up with this um boils but we call it fine fix verifying so what we do is we go in is we act as the attacker right we act in a production environment so we're not going to be we're a passive attacker but we will go in on credentialed on agents but we have to assume to have an assumed breach model which means we're going to put a Docker container in your environment and then we're going to fingerprint the environment so we're going to go out and do an asset survey now that's something that's not something that Splunk does super well you know so can Splunk see all the assets do the same assets marry up we're going to log all that data and think and then put load that into this long Sim or the smoke logging tools just to have it in Enterprise right that's an immediate future ad that they've got um and then we've got the fix so once we've completed our pen test um we are then going to generate a report and we can talk about these in a little bit later but the reports will show an executive summary the assets that we found which would be your asset Discovery aspect of that a fix report and the fixed report I think is probably the most important one it will go down and identify what we did how we did it and then how to fix that and then from that the pen tester or the organization should fix those then they go back and run another test and then they validate like a change detection environment to see hey did those fixes taste play take place and you know snehaw when he was the CTO of jsoc he shared with me a number of times about it's like man there would be 15 more items on next week's punch sheet that we didn't know about and it's and it has to do with how we you know how they were uh prioritizing the cves and whatnot because they would take all CBDs it was critical or non-critical and it's like we are able to create context in that environment that feeds better information into Splunk and whatnot that brings that brings up the efficiency for Splunk specifically the teams out there by the way the burnout thing is real I mean this whole I just finished my list and I got 15 more or whatever the list just can keeps growing how did node zero specifically help Splunk teams be more efficient like that's the question I want to get at because this seems like a very scale way for Splunk customers and teams service teams to be more so the question is how does node zero help make Splunk specifically their service teams be more efficient so so today in our early interactions we're building customers we've seen are five things um and I'll start with sort of identifying the blind spots right so kind of what I just talked about with you did we detect did we log did we alert did they stop node zero right and so I would I put that you know a more Layman's third grade term and if I was going to beat a fifth grader at this game would be we can be the sparring partner for a Splunk Enterprise customer a Splunk Essentials customer someone using Splunk soar or even just an Enterprise Splunk customer that may be a small shop with three people and just wants to know where am I exposed so by creating and generating these reports and then having um the API that actually generates the dashboard they can take all of these events that we've logged and log them in and then where that then comes in is number two is how do we prioritize those logs right so how do we create visibility to logs that that um are have critical impacts and again as I mentioned earlier not all cves are high impact regard and also not all or low right so if you daisy chain a bunch of low cves together boom I've got a mission critical AP uh CPE that needs to be fixed now such as a credential moving to an NT box that's got a text file with a bunch of passwords on it that would be very bad um and then third would be uh verifying that you have all of the hosts so one of the things that splunk's not particularly great at and they'll literate themselves they don't do asset Discovery so dude what assets do we see and what are they logging from that um and then for from um for every event that they are able to identify one of the cool things that we can do is actually create this low code no code environment so they could let you know Splunk customers can use Splunk sword to actually triage events and prioritize that event so where they're being routed within it to optimize the Sox team time to Market or time to triage any given event obviously reducing MTR and then finally I think one of the neatest things that we'll be seeing us develop is um our ability to build glass cables so behind me you'll see one of our triage events and how we build uh a Lockheed Martin kill chain on that with a glass table which is very familiar to the community we're going to have the ability and not too distant future to allow people to search observe on those iocs and if people aren't familiar with it ioc it's an instant of a compromise so that's a vector that we want to drill into and of course who's better at Drilling in the data and smoke yeah this is a critter this is an awesome Synergy there I mean I can see a Splunk customer going man this just gives me so much more capability action actionability and also real understanding and I think this is what I want to dig into if you don't mind understanding that critical impact okay is kind of where I see this coming got the data data ingest now data's data but the question is what not to log you know where are things misconfigured these are critical questions so can you talk about what it means to understand critical impact yeah so I think you know going back to the things that I just spoke about a lot of those cves where you'll see um uh low low low and then you daisy chain together and they're suddenly like oh this is high now but then your other impact of like if you're if you're a Splunk customer you know and I had it I had several of them I had one customer that you know terabytes of McAfee data being brought in and it was like all right there's a lot of other data that you probably also want to bring but they could only afford wanted to do certain data sets because that's and they didn't know how to prioritize or filter those data sets and so we provide that opportunity to say hey these are the critical ones to bring in but there's also the ones that you don't necessarily need to bring in because low cve in this case really does mean low cve like an ILO server would be one that um that's the print server uh where the uh your admin credentials are on on like a printer and so there will be credentials on that that's something that a hacker might go in to look at so although the cve on it is low is if you daisy chain with somebody that's able to get into that you might say Ah that's high and we would then potentially rank it giving our AI logic to say that's a moderate so put it on the scale and we prioritize those versus uh of all of these scanners just going to give you a bunch of CDs and good luck and translating that if I if I can and tell me if I'm wrong that kind of speaks to that whole lateral movement that's it challenge right print serve a great example looks stupid low end who's going to want to deal with the print server oh but it's connected into a critical system there's a path is that kind of what you're getting at yeah I use Daisy Chain I think that's from the community they came from uh but it's just a lateral movement it's exactly what they're doing in those low level low critical lateral movements is where the hackers are getting in right so that's the beauty thing about the uh the Uber example is that who would have thought you know I've got my monthly Factor authentication going in a human made a mistake we can't we can't not expect humans to make mistakes we're fallible right the reality is is once they were in the environment they could have protected themselves by running enough pen tests to know that they had certain uh exposed credentials that would have stopped the breach and they did not had not done that in their environment and I'm not poking yeah but it's an interesting Trend though I mean it's obvious if sometimes those low end items are also not protected well so it's easy to get at from a hacker standpoint but also the people in charge of them can be fished easily or spearfished because they're not paying attention because they don't have to no one ever told them hey be careful yeah for the community that I came from John that's exactly how they they would uh meet you at a uh an International Event um introduce themselves as a graduate student these are National actor States uh would you mind reviewing my thesis on such and such and I was at Adobe at the time that I was working on this instead of having to get the PDF they opened the PDF and whoever that customer was launches and I don't know if you remember back in like 2008 time frame there was a lot of issues around IP being by a nation state being stolen from the United States and that's exactly how they did it and John that's or LinkedIn hey I want to get a joke we want to hire you double the salary oh I'm gonna click on that for sure you know yeah right exactly yeah the one thing I would say to you is like uh when we look at like sort of you know because I think we did 10 000 pen tests last year is it's probably over that now you know we have these sort of top 10 ways that we think and find people coming into the environment the funniest thing is that only one of them is a cve related vulnerability like uh you know you guys know what they are right so it's it but it's it's like two percent of the attacks are occurring through the cves but yeah there's all that attention spent to that and very little attention spent to this pen testing side which is sort of this continuous threat you know monitoring space and and this vulnerability space where I think we play a such an important role and I'm so excited to be a part of the tip of the spear on this one yeah I'm old enough to know the movie sneakers which I loved as a you know watching that movie you know professional hackers are testing testing always testing the environment I love this I got to ask you as we kind of wrap up here Chris if you don't mind the the benefits to Professional Services from this Alliance big news Splunk and you guys work well together we see that clearly what are what other benefits do Professional Services teams see from the Splunk and Horizon 3.ai Alliance so if you're I think for from our our from both of our uh Partners uh as we bring these guys together and many of them already are the same partner right uh is that uh first off the licensing model is probably one of the key areas that we really excel at so if you're an end user you can buy uh for the Enterprise by the number of IP addresses you're using um but uh if you're a partner working with this there's solution ways that you can go in and we'll license as to msps and what that business model on msps looks like but the unique thing that we do here is this C plus license and so the Consulting plus license allows like a uh somebody a small to mid-sized to some very large uh you know Fortune 100 uh consulting firms use this uh by buying into a license called um Consulting plus where they can have unlimited uh access to as many IPS as they want but you can only run one test at a time and as you can imagine when we're going and hacking passwords and um checking hashes and decrypting hashes that can take a while so but for the right customer it's it's a perfect tool and so I I'm so excited about our ability to go to market with uh our partners so that we understand ourselves understand how not to just sell to or not tell just to sell through but we know how to sell with them as a good vendor partner I think that that's one thing that we've done a really good job building bring it into the market yeah I think also the Splunk has had great success how they've enabled uh partners and Professional Services absolutely you know the services that layer on top of Splunk are multi-fold tons of great benefits so you guys Vector right into that ride that way with friction and and the cool thing is that in you know in one of our reports which could be totally customized uh with someone else's logo we're going to generate you know so I I used to work in another organization it wasn't Splunk but we we did uh you know pen testing as for for customers and my pen testers would come on site they'd do the engagement and they would leave and then another release someone would be oh shoot we got another sector that was breached and they'd call you back you know four weeks later and so by August our entire pen testings teams would be sold out and it would be like well even in March maybe and they're like no no I gotta breach now and and and then when they do go in they go through do the pen test and they hand over a PDF and they pack on the back and say there's where your problems are you need to fix it and the reality is that what we're going to generate completely autonomously with no human interaction is we're going to go and find all the permutations of anything we found and the fix for those permutations and then once you've fixed everything you just go back and run another pen test it's you know for what people pay for one pen test they can have a tool that does that every every Pat patch on Tuesday and that's on Wednesday you know triage throughout the week green yellow red I wanted to see the colors show me green green is good right not red and one CIO doesn't want who doesn't want that dashboard right it's it's exactly it and we can help bring I think that you know I'm really excited about helping drive this with the Splunk team because they get that they understand that it's the green yellow red dashboard and and how do we help them find more green uh so that the other guys are in red yeah and get in the data and do the right thing and be efficient with how you use the data know what to look at so many things to pay attention to you know the combination of both and then go to market strategy real brilliant congratulations Chris thanks for coming on and sharing um this news with the detail around the Splunk in action around the alliance thanks for sharing John my pleasure thanks look forward to seeing you soon all right great we'll follow up and do another segment on devops and I.T and security teams as the new new Ops but and super cloud a bunch of other stuff so thanks for coming on and our next segment the CEO of horizon 3.aa will break down all the new news for us here on thecube you're watching thecube the leader in high tech Enterprise coverage [Music] yeah the partner program for us has been fantastic you know I think prior to that you know as most organizations most uh uh most Farmers most mssps might not necessarily have a a bench at all for penetration testing uh maybe they subcontract this work out or maybe they do it themselves but trying to staff that kind of position can be incredibly difficult for us this was a differentiator a a new a new partner a new partnership that allowed us to uh not only perform services for our customers but be able to provide a product by which that they can do it themselves so we work with our customers in a variety of ways some of them want more routine testing and perform this themselves but we're also a certified service provider of horizon 3 being able to perform uh penetration tests uh help review the the data provide color provide analysis for our customers in a broader sense right not necessarily the the black and white elements of you know what was uh what's critical what's high what's medium what's low what you need to fix but are there systemic issues this has allowed us to onboard new customers this has allowed us to migrate some penetration testing services to us from from competitors in the marketplace But ultimately this is occurring because the the product and the outcome are special they're unique and they're effective our customers like what they're seeing they like the routineness of it many of them you know again like doing this themselves you know being able to kind of pen test themselves parts of their networks um and the the new use cases right I'm a large organization I have eight to ten Acquisitions per year wouldn't it be great to have a tool to be able to perform a penetration test both internal and external of that acquisition before we integrate the two companies and maybe bringing on some risk it's a very effective partnership uh one that really is uh kind of taken our our Engineers our account Executives by storm um you know this this is a a partnership that's been very valuable to us [Music] a key part of the value and business model at Horizon 3 is enabling Partners to leverage node zero to make more revenue for themselves our goal is that for sixty percent of our Revenue this year will be originated by partners and that 95 of our Revenue next year will be originated by partners and so a key to that strategy is making us an integral part of your business models as a partner a key quote from one of our partners is that we enable every one of their business units to generate Revenue so let's talk about that in a little bit more detail first is that if you have a pen test Consulting business take Deloitte as an example what was six weeks of human labor at Deloitte per pen test has been cut down to four days of Labor using node zero to conduct reconnaissance find all the juicy interesting areas of the of the Enterprise that are exploitable and being able to go assess the entire organization and then all of those details get served up to the human to be able to look at understand and determine where to probe deeper so what you see in that pen test Consulting business is that node zero becomes a force multiplier where those Consulting teams were able to cover way more accounts and way more IPS within those accounts with the same or fewer consultants and so that directly leads to profit margin expansion for the Penn testing business itself because node 0 is a force multiplier the second business model here is if you're an mssp as an mssp you're already making money providing defensive cyber security operations for a large volume of customers and so what they do is they'll license node zero and use us as an upsell to their mssb business to start to deliver either continuous red teaming continuous verification or purple teaming as a service and so in that particular business model they've got an additional line of Revenue where they can increase the spend of their existing customers by bolting on node 0 as a purple team as a service offering the third business model or customer type is if you're an I.T services provider so as an I.T services provider you make money installing and configuring security products like Splunk or crowdstrike or hemio you also make money reselling those products and you also make money generating follow-on services to continue to harden your customer environments and so for them what what those it service providers will do is use us to verify that they've installed Splunk correctly improved to their customer that Splunk was installed correctly or crowdstrike was installed correctly using our results and then use our results to drive follow-on services and revenue and then finally we've got the value-added reseller which is just a straight up reseller because of how fast our sales Cycles are these vars are able to typically go from cold email to deal close in six to eight weeks at Horizon 3 at least a single sales engineer is able to run 30 to 50 pocs concurrently because our pocs are very lightweight and don't require any on-prem customization or heavy pre-sales post sales activity so as a result we're able to have a few amount of sellers driving a lot of Revenue and volume for us well the same thing applies to bars there isn't a lot of effort to sell the product or prove its value so vars are able to sell a lot more Horizon 3 node zero product without having to build up a huge specialist sales organization so what I'm going to do is talk through uh scenario three here as an I.T service provider and just how powerful node zero can be in driving additional Revenue so in here think of for every one dollar of node zero license purchased by the IT service provider to do their business it'll generate ten dollars of additional revenue for that partner so in this example kidney group uses node 0 to verify that they have installed and deployed Splunk correctly so Kitty group is a Splunk partner they they sell it services to install configure deploy and maintain Splunk and as they deploy Splunk they're going to use node 0 to attack the environment and make sure that the right logs and alerts and monitoring are being handled within the Splunk deployment so it's a way of doing QA or verifying that Splunk has been configured correctly and that's going to be internally used by kidney group to prove the quality of their services that they've just delivered then what they're going to do is they're going to show and leave behind that node zero Report with their client and that creates a resell opportunity for for kidney group to resell node 0 to their client because their client is seeing the reports and the results and saying wow this is pretty amazing and those reports can be co-branded where it's a pen testing report branded with kidney group but it says powered by Horizon three under it from there kidney group is able to take the fixed actions report that's automatically generated with every pen test through node zero and they're able to use that as the starting point for a statement of work to sell follow-on services to fix all of the problems that node zero identified fixing l11r misconfigurations fixing or patching VMware or updating credentials policies and so on so what happens is node 0 has found a bunch of problems the client often lacks the capacity to fix and so kidney group can use that lack of capacity by the client as a follow-on sales opportunity for follow-on services and finally based on the findings from node zero kidney group can look at that report and say to the customer you know customer if you bought crowdstrike you'd be able to uh prevent node Zero from attacking and succeeding in the way that it did for if you bought humano or if you bought Palo Alto networks or if you bought uh some privileged access management solution because of what node 0 was able to do with credential harvesting and attacks and so as a result kidney group is able to resell other security products within their portfolio crowdstrike Falcon humano Polito networks demisto Phantom and so on based on the gaps that were identified by node zero and that pen test and what that creates is another feedback loop where kidney group will then go use node 0 to verify that crowdstrike product has actually been installed and configured correctly and then this becomes the cycle of using node 0 to verify a deployment using that verification to drive a bunch of follow-on services and resell opportunities which then further drives more usage of the product now the way that we licensed is that it's a usage-based license licensing model so that the partner will grow their node zero Consulting plus license as they grow their business so for example if you're a kidney group then week one you've got you're going to use node zero to verify your Splunk install in week two if you have a pen testing business you're going to go off and use node zero to be a force multiplier for your pen testing uh client opportunity and then if you have an mssp business then in week three you're going to use node zero to go execute a purple team mssp offering for your clients so not necessarily a kidney group but if you're a Deloitte or ATT these larger companies and you've got multiple lines of business if you're Optive for instance you all you have to do is buy one Consulting plus license and you're going to be able to run as many pen tests as you want sequentially so now you can buy a single license and use that one license to meet your week one client commitments and then meet your week two and then meet your week three and as you grow your business you start to run multiple pen tests concurrently so in week one you've got to do a Splunk verify uh verify Splunk install and you've got to run a pen test and you've got to do a purple team opportunity you just simply expand the number of Consulting plus licenses from one license to three licenses and so now as you systematically grow your business you're able to grow your node zero capacity with you giving you predictable cogs predictable margins and once again 10x additional Revenue opportunity for that investment in the node zero Consulting plus license my name is Saint I'm the co-founder and CEO here at Horizon 3. I'm going to talk to you today about why it's important to look at your Enterprise Through The Eyes of an attacker the challenge I had when I was a CIO in banking the CTO at Splunk and serving within the Department of Defense is that I had no idea I was Secure until the bad guys had showed up am I logging the right data am I fixing the right vulnerabilities are my security tools that I've paid millions of dollars for actually working together to defend me and the answer is I don't know does my team actually know how to respond to a breach in the middle of an incident I don't know I've got to wait for the bad guys to show up and so the challenge I had was how do we proactively verify our security posture I tried a variety of techniques the first was the use of vulnerability scanners and the challenge with vulnerability scanners is being vulnerable doesn't mean you're exploitable I might have a hundred thousand findings from my scanner of which maybe five or ten can actually be exploited in my environment the other big problem with scanners is that they can't chain weaknesses together from machine to machine so if you've got a thousand machines in your environment or more what a vulnerability scanner will do is tell you you have a problem on machine one and separately a problem on machine two but what they can tell you is that an attacker could use a load from machine one plus a low from machine two to equal to critical in your environment and what attackers do in their tactics is they chain together misconfigurations dangerous product defaults harvested credentials and exploitable vulnerabilities into attack paths across different machines so to address the attack pads across different machines I tried layering in consulting-based pen testing and the issue is when you've got thousands of hosts or hundreds of thousands of hosts in your environment human-based pen testing simply doesn't scale to test an infrastructure of that size moreover when they actually do execute a pen test and you get the report oftentimes you lack the expertise within your team to quickly retest to verify that you've actually fixed the problem and so what happens is you end up with these pen test reports that are incomplete snapshots and quickly going stale and then to mitigate that problem I tried using breach and attack simulation tools and the struggle with these tools is one I had to install credentialed agents everywhere two I had to write my own custom attack scripts that I didn't have much talent for but also I had to maintain as my environment changed and then three these types of tools were not safe to run against production systems which was the the majority of my attack surface so that's why we went off to start Horizon 3. so Tony and I met when we were in Special Operations together and the challenge we wanted to solve was how do we do infrastructure security testing at scale by giving the the power of a 20-year pen testing veteran into the hands of an I.T admin a network engineer in just three clicks and the whole idea is we enable these fixers The Blue Team to be able to run node Zero Hour pen testing product to quickly find problems in their environment that blue team will then then go off and fix the issues that were found and then they can quickly rerun the attack to verify that they fixed the problem and the whole idea is delivering this without requiring custom scripts be developed without requiring credential agents be installed and without requiring the use of external third-party consulting services or Professional Services self-service pen testing to quickly Drive find fix verify there are three primary use cases that our customers use us for the first is the sock manager that uses us to verify that their security tools are actually effective to verify that they're logging the right data in Splunk or in their Sim to verify that their managed security services provider is able to quickly detect and respond to an attack and hold them accountable for their slas or that the sock understands how to quickly detect and respond and measuring and verifying that or that the variety of tools that you have in your stack most organizations have 130 plus cyber security tools none of which are designed to work together are actually working together the second primary use case is proactively hardening and verifying your systems this is when the I that it admin that network engineer they're able to run self-service pen tests to verify that their Cisco environment is installed in hardened and configured correctly or that their credential policies are set up right or that their vcenter or web sphere or kubernetes environments are actually designed to be secure and what this allows the it admins and network Engineers to do is shift from running one or two pen tests a year to 30 40 or more pen tests a month and you can actually wire those pen tests into your devops process or into your detection engineering and the change management processes to automatically trigger pen tests every time there's a change in your environment the third primary use case is for those organizations lucky enough to have their own internal red team they'll use node zero to do reconnaissance and exploitation at scale and then use the output as a starting point for the humans to step in and focus on the really hard juicy stuff that gets them on stage at Defcon and so these are the three primary use cases and what we'll do is zoom into the find fix verify Loop because what I've found in my experience is find fix verify is the future operating model for cyber security organizations and what I mean here is in the find using continuous pen testing what you want to enable is on-demand self-service pen tests you want those pen tests to find attack pads at scale spanning your on-prem infrastructure your Cloud infrastructure and your perimeter because attackers don't only state in one place they will find ways to chain together a perimeter breach a credential from your on-prem to gain access to your cloud or some other permutation and then the third part in continuous pen testing is attackers don't focus on critical vulnerabilities anymore they know we've built vulnerability Management Programs to reduce those vulnerabilities so attackers have adapted and what they do is chain together misconfigurations in your infrastructure and software and applications with dangerous product defaults with exploitable vulnerabilities and through the collection of credentials through a mix of techniques at scale once you've found those problems the next question is what do you do about it well you want to be able to prioritize fixing problems that are actually exploitable in your environment that truly matter meaning they're going to lead to domain compromise or domain user compromise or access your sensitive data the second thing you want to fix is making sure you understand what risk your crown jewels data is exposed to where is your crown jewels data is in the cloud is it on-prem has it been copied to a share drive that you weren't aware of if a domain user was compromised could they access that crown jewels data you want to be able to use the attacker's perspective to secure the critical data you have in your infrastructure and then finally as you fix these problems you want to quickly remediate and retest that you've actually fixed the issue and this fine fix verify cycle becomes that accelerator that drives purple team culture the third part here is verify and what you want to be able to do in the verify step is verify that your security tools and processes in people can effectively detect and respond to a breach you want to be able to integrate that into your detection engineering processes so that you know you're catching the right security rules or that you've deployed the right configurations you also want to make sure that your environment is adhering to the best practices around systems hardening in cyber resilience and finally you want to be able to prove your security posture over a time to your board to your leadership into your regulators so what I'll do now is zoom into each of these three steps so when we zoom in to find here's the first example using node 0 and autonomous pen testing and what an attacker will do is find a way to break through the perimeter in this example it's very easy to misconfigure kubernetes to allow an attacker to gain remote code execution into your on-prem kubernetes environment and break through the perimeter and from there what the attacker is going to do is conduct Network reconnaissance and then find ways to gain code execution on other machines in the environment and as they get code execution they start to dump credentials collect a bunch of ntlm hashes crack those hashes using open source and dark web available data as part of those attacks and then reuse those credentials to log in and laterally maneuver throughout the environment and then as they loudly maneuver they can reuse those credentials and use credential spraying techniques and so on to compromise your business email to log in as admin into your cloud and this is a very common attack and rarely is a CV actually needed to execute this attack often it's just a misconfiguration in kubernetes with a bad credential policy or password policy combined with bad practices of credential reuse across the organization here's another example of an internal pen test and this is from an actual customer they had 5 000 hosts within their environment they had EDR and uba tools installed and they initiated in an internal pen test on a single machine from that single initial access point node zero enumerated the network conducted reconnaissance and found five thousand hosts were accessible what node 0 will do under the covers is organize all of that reconnaissance data into a knowledge graph that we call the Cyber terrain map and that cyber Terrain map becomes the key data structure that we use to efficiently maneuver and attack and compromise your environment so what node zero will do is they'll try to find ways to get code execution reuse credentials and so on in this customer example they had Fortinet installed as their EDR but node 0 was still able to get code execution on a Windows machine from there it was able to successfully dump credentials including sensitive credentials from the lsas process on the Windows box and then reuse those credentials to log in as domain admin in the network and once an attacker becomes domain admin they have the keys to the kingdom they can do anything they want so what happened here well it turns out Fortinet was misconfigured on three out of 5000 machines bad automation the customer had no idea this had happened they would have had to wait for an attacker to show up to realize that it was misconfigured the second thing is well why didn't Fortinet stop the credential pivot in the lateral movement and it turned out the customer didn't buy the right modules or turn on the right services within that particular product and we see this not only with Ford in it but we see this with Trend Micro and all the other defensive tools where it's very easy to miss a checkbox in the configuration that will do things like prevent credential dumping the next story I'll tell you is attackers don't have to hack in they log in so another infrastructure pen test a typical technique attackers will take is man in the middle uh attacks that will collect hashes so in this case what an attacker will do is leverage a tool or technique called responder to collect ntlm hashes that are being passed around the network and there's a variety of reasons why these hashes are passed around and it's a pretty common misconfiguration but as an attacker collects those hashes then they start to apply techniques to crack those hashes so they'll pass the hash and from there they will use open source intelligence common password structures and patterns and other types of techniques to try to crack those hashes into clear text passwords so here node 0 automatically collected hashes it automatically passed the hashes to crack those credentials and then from there it starts to take the domain user user ID passwords that it's collected and tries to access different services and systems in your Enterprise in this case node 0 is able to successfully gain access to the Office 365 email environment because three employees didn't have MFA configured so now what happens is node 0 has a placement and access in the business email system which sets up the conditions for fraud lateral phishing and other techniques but what's especially insightful here is that 80 of the hashes that were collected in this pen test were cracked in 15 minutes or less 80 percent 26 of the user accounts had a password that followed a pretty obvious pattern first initial last initial and four random digits the other thing that was interesting is 10 percent of service accounts had their user ID the same as their password so VMware admin VMware admin web sphere admin web Square admin so on and so forth and so attackers don't have to hack in they just log in with credentials that they've collected the next story here is becoming WS AWS admin so in this example once again internal pen test node zero gets initial access it discovers 2 000 hosts are network reachable from that environment if fingerprints and organizes all of that data into a cyber Terrain map from there it it fingerprints that hpilo the integrated lights out service was running on a subset of hosts hpilo is a service that is often not instrumented or observed by security teams nor is it easy to patch as a result attackers know this and immediately go after those types of services so in this case that ILO service was exploitable and were able to get code execution on it ILO stores all the user IDs and passwords in clear text in a particular set of processes so once we gain code execution we were able to dump all of the credentials and then from there laterally maneuver to log in to the windows box next door as admin and then on that admin box we're able to gain access to the share drives and we found a credentials file saved on a share Drive from there it turned out that credentials file was the AWS admin credentials file giving us full admin authority to their AWS accounts not a single security alert was triggered in this attack because the customer wasn't observing the ILO service and every step thereafter was a valid login in the environment and so what do you do step one patch the server step two delete the credentials file from the share drive and then step three is get better instrumentation on privileged access users and login the final story I'll tell is a typical pattern that we see across the board with that combines the various techniques I've described together where an attacker is going to go off and use open source intelligence to find all of the employees that work at your company from there they're going to look up those employees on dark web breach databases and other forms of information and then use that as a starting point to password spray to compromise a domain user all it takes is one employee to reuse a breached password for their Corporate email or all it takes is a single employee to have a weak password that's easily guessable all it takes is one and once the attacker is able to gain domain user access in most shops domain user is also the local admin on their laptop and once your local admin you can dump Sam and get local admin until M hashes you can use that to reuse credentials again local admin on neighboring machines and attackers will start to rinse and repeat then eventually they're able to get to a point where they can dump lsas or by unhooking the anti-virus defeating the EDR or finding a misconfigured EDR as we've talked about earlier to compromise the domain and what's consistent is that the fundamentals are broken at these shops they have poor password policies they don't have least access privilege implemented active directory groups are too permissive where domain admin or domain user is also the local admin uh AV or EDR Solutions are misconfigured or easily unhooked and so on and what we found in 10 000 pen tests is that user Behavior analytics tools never caught us in that lateral movement in part because those tools require pristine logging data in order to work and also it becomes very difficult to find that Baseline of normal usage versus abnormal usage of credential login another interesting Insight is there were several Marquee brand name mssps that were defending our customers environment and for them it took seven hours to detect and respond to the pen test seven hours the pen test was over in less than two hours and so what you had was an egregious violation of the service level agreements that that mssp had in place and the customer was able to use us to get service credit and drive accountability of their sock and of their provider the third interesting thing is in one case it took us seven minutes to become domain admin in a bank that bank had every Gucci security tool you could buy yet in 7 minutes and 19 seconds node zero started as an unauthenticated member of the network and was able to escalate privileges through chaining and misconfigurations in lateral movement and so on to become domain admin if it's seven minutes today we should assume it'll be less than a minute a year or two from now making it very difficult for humans to be able to detect and respond to that type of Blitzkrieg attack so that's in the find it's not just about finding problems though the bulk of the effort should be what to do about it the fix and the verify so as you find those problems back to kubernetes as an example we will show you the path here is the kill chain we took to compromise that environment we'll show you the impact here is the impact or here's the the proof of exploitation that we were able to use to be able to compromise it and there's the actual command that we executed so you could copy and paste that command and compromise that cubelet yourself if you want and then the impact is we got code execution and we'll actually show you here is the impact this is a critical here's why it enabled perimeter breach affected applications will tell you the specific IPS where you've got the problem how it maps to the miter attack framework and then we'll tell you exactly how to fix it we'll also show you what this problem enabled so you can accurately prioritize why this is important or why it's not important the next part is accurate prioritization the hardest part of my job as a CIO was deciding what not to fix so if you take SMB signing not required as an example by default that CVSs score is a one out of 10. but this misconfiguration is not a cve it's a misconfig enable an attacker to gain access to 19 credentials including one domain admin two local admins and access to a ton of data because of that context this is really a 10 out of 10. you better fix this as soon as possible however of the seven occurrences that we found it's only a critical in three out of the seven and these are the three specific machines and we'll tell you the exact way to fix it and you better fix these as soon as possible for these four machines over here these didn't allow us to do anything of consequence so that because the hardest part is deciding what not to fix you can justifiably choose not to fix these four issues right now and just add them to your backlog and surge your team to fix these three as quickly as possible and then once you fix these three you don't have to re-run the entire pen test you can select these three and then one click verify and run a very narrowly scoped pen test that is only testing this specific issue and what that creates is a much faster cycle of finding and fixing problems the other part of fixing is verifying that you don't have sensitive data at risk so once we become a domain user we're able to use those domain user credentials and try to gain access to databases file shares S3 buckets git repos and so on and help you understand what sensitive data you have at risk so in this example a green checkbox means we logged in as a valid domain user we're able to get read write access on the database this is how many records we could have accessed and we don't actually look at the values in the database but we'll show you the schema so you can quickly characterize that pii data was at risk here and we'll do that for your file shares and other sources of data so now you can accurately articulate the data you have at risk and prioritize cleaning that data up especially data that will lead to a fine or a big news issue so that's the find that's the fix now we're going to talk about the verify the key part in verify is embracing and integrating with detection engineering practices so when you think about your layers of security tools you've got lots of tools in place on average 130 tools at any given customer but these tools were not designed to work together so when you run a pen test what you want to do is say did you detect us did you log us did you alert on us did you stop us and from there what you want to see is okay what are the techniques that are commonly used to defeat an environment to actually compromise if you look at the top 10 techniques we use and there's far more than just these 10 but these are the most often executed nine out of ten have nothing to do with cves it has to do with misconfigurations dangerous product defaults bad credential policies and it's how we chain those together to become a domain admin or compromise a host so what what customers will do is every single attacker command we executed is provided to you as an attackivity log so you can actually see every single attacker command we ran the time stamp it was executed the hosts it executed on and how it Maps the minor attack tactics so our customers will have are these attacker logs on one screen and then they'll go look into Splunk or exabeam or Sentinel one or crowdstrike and say did you detect us did you log us did you alert on us or not and to make that even easier if you take this example hey Splunk what logs did you see at this time on the VMware host because that's when node 0 is able to dump credentials and that allows you to identify and fix your logging blind spots to make that easier we've got app integration so this is an actual Splunk app in the Splunk App Store and what you can come is inside the Splunk console itself you can fire up the Horizon 3 node 0 app all of the pen test results are here so that you can see all of the results in one place and you don't have to jump out of the tool and what you'll show you as I skip forward is hey there's a pen test here are the critical issues that we've identified for that weaker default issue here are the exact commands we executed and then we will automatically query into Splunk all all terms on between these times on that endpoint that relate to this attack so you can now quickly within the Splunk environment itself figure out that you're missing logs or that you're appropriately catching this issue and that becomes incredibly important in that detection engineering cycle that I mentioned earlier so how do our customers end up using us they shift from running one pen test a year to 30 40 pen tests a month oftentimes wiring us into their deployment automation to automatically run pen tests the other part that they'll do is as they run more pen tests they find more issues but eventually they hit this inflection point where they're able to rapidly clean up their environment and that inflection point is because the red and the blue teams start working together in a purple team culture and now they're working together to proactively harden their environment the other thing our customers will do is run us from different perspectives they'll first start running an RFC 1918 scope to see once the attacker gained initial access in a part of the network that had wide access what could they do and then from there they'll run us within a specific Network segment okay from within that segment could the attacker break out and gain access to another segment then they'll run us from their work from home environment could they Traverse the VPN and do something damaging and once they're in could they Traverse the VPN and get into my cloud then they'll break in from the outside all of these perspectives are available to you in Horizon 3 and node zero as a single SKU and you can run as many pen tests as you want if you run a phishing campaign and find that an intern in the finance department had the worst phishing behavior you can then inject their credentials and actually show the end-to-end story of how an attacker fished gained credentials of an intern and use that to gain access to sensitive financial data so what our customers end up doing is running multiple attacks from multiple perspectives and looking at those results over time I'll leave you two things one is what is the AI in Horizon 3 AI those knowledge graphs are the heart and soul of everything that we do and we use machine learning reinforcement techniques reinforcement learning techniques Markov decision models and so on to be able to efficiently maneuver and analyze the paths in those really large graphs we also use context-based scoring to prioritize weaknesses and we're also able to drive collective intelligence across all of the operations so the more pen tests we run the smarter we get and all of that is based on our knowledge graph analytics infrastructure that we have finally I'll leave you with this was my decision criteria when I was a buyer for my security testing strategy what I cared about was coverage I wanted to be able to assess my on-prem cloud perimeter and work from home and be safe to run in production I want to be able to do that as often as I wanted I want to be able to run pen tests in hours or days not weeks or months so I could accelerate that fine fix verify loop I wanted my it admins and network Engineers with limited offensive experience to be able to run a pen test in a few clicks through a self-service experience and not have to install agent and not have to write custom scripts and finally I didn't want to get nickeled and dimed on having to buy different types of attack modules or different types of attacks I wanted a single annual subscription that allowed me to run any type of attack as often as I wanted so I could look at my Trends in directions over time so I hope you found this talk valuable uh we're easy to find and I look forward to seeing seeing you use a product and letting our results do the talking when you look at uh you know kind of the way no our pen testing algorithms work is we dynamically select uh how to compromise an environment based on what we've discovered and the goal is to become a domain admin compromise a host compromise domain users find ways to encrypt data steal sensitive data and so on but when you look at the the top 10 techniques that we ended up uh using to compromise environments the first nine have nothing to do with cves and that's the reality cves are yes a vector but less than two percent of cves are actually used in a compromise oftentimes it's some sort of credential collection credential cracking uh credential pivoting and using that to become an admin and then uh compromising environments from that point on so I'll leave this up for you to kind of read through and you'll have the slides available for you but I found it very insightful that organizations and ourselves when I was a GE included invested heavily in just standard vulnerability Management Programs when I was at DOD that's all disa cared about asking us about was our our kind of our cve posture but the attackers have adapted to not rely on cves to get in because they know that organizations are actively looking at and patching those cves and instead they're chaining together credentials from one place with misconfigurations and dangerous product defaults in another to take over an environment a concrete example is by default vcenter backups are not encrypted and so as if an attacker finds vcenter what they'll do is find the backup location and there are specific V sender MTD files where the admin credentials are parsippled in the binaries so you can actually as an attacker find the right MTD file parse out the binary and now you've got the admin credentials for the vcenter environment and now start to log in as admin there's a bad habit by signal officers and Signal practitioners in the in the Army and elsewhere where the the VM notes section of a virtual image has the password for the VM well those VM notes are not stored encrypted and attackers know this and they're able to go off and find the VMS that are unencrypted find the note section and pull out the passwords for those images and then reuse those credentials across the board so I'll pause here and uh you know Patrick love you get some some commentary on on these techniques and other things that you've seen and what we'll do in the last say 10 to 15 minutes is uh is rolled through a little bit more on what do you do about it yeah yeah no I love it I think um I think this is pretty exhaustive what I like about what you've done here is uh you know we've seen we've seen double-digit increases in the number of organizations that are reporting actual breaches year over year for the last um for the last three years and it's often we kind of in the Zeitgeist we pegged that on ransomware which of course is like incredibly important and very top of mind um but what I like about what you have here is you know we're reminding the audience that the the attack surface area the vectors the matter um you know has to be more comprehensive than just thinking about ransomware scenarios yeah right on um so let's build on this when you think about your defense in depth you've got multiple security controls that you've purchased and integrated and you've got that redundancy if a control fails but the reality is that these security tools aren't designed to work together so when you run a pen test what you want to ask yourself is did you detect node zero did you log node zero did you alert on node zero and did you stop node zero and when you think about how to do that every single attacker command executed by node zero is available in an attacker log so you can now see you know at the bottom here vcenter um exploit at that time on that IP how it aligns to minor attack what you want to be able to do is go figure out did your security tools catch this or not and that becomes very important in using the attacker's perspective to improve your defensive security controls and so the way we've tried to make this easier back to like my my my the you know I bleed Green in many ways still from my smoke background is you want to be able to and what our customers do is hey we'll look at the attacker logs on one screen and they'll look at what did Splunk see or Miss in another screen and then they'll use that to figure out what their logging blind spots are and what that where that becomes really interesting is we've actually built out an integration into Splunk where there's a Splunk app you can download off of Splunk base and you'll get all of the pen test results right there in the Splunk console and from that Splunk console you're gonna be able to see these are all the pen tests that were run these are the issues that were found um so you can look at that particular pen test here are all of the weaknesses that were identified for that particular pen test and how they categorize out for each of those weaknesses you can click on any one of them that are critical in this case and then we'll tell you for that weakness and this is where where the the punch line comes in so I'll pause the video here for that weakness these are the commands that were executed on these endpoints at this time and then we'll actually query Splunk for that um for that IP address or containing that IP and these are the source types that surface any sort of activity so what we try to do is help you as quickly and efficiently as possible identify the logging blind spots in your Splunk environment based on the attacker's perspective so as this video kind of plays through you can see it Patrick I'd love to get your thoughts um just seeing so many Splunk deployments and the effectiveness of those deployments and and how this is going to help really Elevate the effectiveness of all of your Splunk customers yeah I'm super excited about this I mean I think this these kinds of purpose-built integration snail really move the needle for our customers I mean at the end of the day when I think about the power of Splunk I think about a product I was first introduced to 12 years ago that was an on-prem piece of software you know and at the time it sold on sort of Perpetual and term licenses but one made it special was that it could it could it could eat data at a speed that nothing else that I'd have ever seen you can ingest massively scalable amounts of data uh did cool things like schema on read which facilitated that there was this language called SPL that you could nerd out about uh and you went to a conference once a year and you talked about all the cool things you were splunking right but now as we think about the next phase of our growth um we live in a heterogeneous environment where our customers have so many different tools and data sources that are ever expanding and as you look at the as you look at the role of the ciso it's mind-blowing to me the amount of sources Services apps that are coming into the ciso span of let's just call it a span of influence in the last three years uh you know we're seeing things like infrastructure service level visibility application performance monitoring stuff that just never made sense for the security team to have visibility into you um at least not at the size and scale which we're demanding today um and and that's different and this isn't this is why it's so important that we have these joint purpose-built Integrations that um really provide more prescription to our customers about how do they walk on that Journey towards maturity what does zero to one look like what does one to two look like whereas you know 10 years ago customers were happy with platforms today they want integration they want Solutions and they want to drive outcomes and I think this is a great example of how together we are stepping to the evolving nature of the market and also the ever-evolving nature of the threat landscape and what I would say is the maturing needs of the customer in that environment yeah for sure I think especially if if we all anticipate budget pressure over the next 18 months due to the economy and elsewhere while the security budgets are not going to ever I don't think they're going to get cut they're not going to grow as fast and there's a lot more pressure on organizations to extract more value from their existing Investments as well as extracting more value and more impact from their existing teams and so security Effectiveness Fierce prioritization and automation I think become the three key themes of security uh over the next 18 months so I'll do very quickly is run through a few other use cases um every host that we identified in the pen test were able to score and say this host allowed us to do something significant therefore it's it's really critical you should be increasing your logging here hey these hosts down here we couldn't really do anything as an attacker so if you do have to make trade-offs you can make some trade-offs of your logging resolution at the lower end in order to increase logging resolution on the upper end so you've got that level of of um justification for where to increase or or adjust your logging resolution another example is every host we've discovered as an attacker we Expose and you can export and we want to make sure is every host we found as an attacker is being ingested from a Splunk standpoint a big issue I had as a CIO and user of Splunk and other tools is I had no idea if there were Rogue Raspberry Pi's on the network or if a new box was installed and whether Splunk was installed on it or not so now you can quickly start to correlate what hosts did we see and how does that reconcile with what you're logging from uh finally or second to last use case here on the Splunk integration side is for every single problem we've found we give multiple options for how to fix it this becomes a great way to prioritize what fixed actions to automate in your soar platform and what we want to get to eventually is being able to automatically trigger soar actions to fix well-known problems like automatically invalidating passwords for for poor poor passwords in our credentials amongst a whole bunch of other things we could go off and do and then finally if there is a well-known kill chain or attack path one of the things I really wish I could have done when I was a Splunk customer was take this type of kill chain that actually shows a path to domain admin that I'm sincerely worried about and use it as a glass table over which I could start to layer possible indicators of compromise and now you've got a great starting point for glass tables and iocs for actual kill chains that we know are exploitable in your environment and that becomes some super cool Integrations that we've got on the roadmap between us and the Splunk security side of the house so what I'll leave with actually Patrick before I do that you know um love to get your comments and then I'll I'll kind of leave with one last slide on this wartime security mindset uh pending you know assuming there's no other questions no I love it I mean I think this kind of um it's kind of glass table's approach to how do you how do you sort of visualize these workflows and then use things like sore and orchestration and automation to operationalize them is exactly where we see all of our customers going and getting away from I think an over engineered approach to soar with where it has to be super technical heavy with you know python programmers and getting more to this visual view of workflow creation um that really demystifies the power of Automation and also democratizes it so you don't have to have these programming languages in your resume in order to start really moving the needle on workflow creation policy enforcement and ultimately driving automation coverage across more and more of the workflows that your team is seeing yeah I think that between us being able to visualize the actual kill chain or attack path with you know think of a of uh the soar Market I think going towards this no code low code um you know configurable sore versus coded sore that's going to really be a game changer in improve or giving security teams a force multiplier so what I'll leave you with is this peacetime mindset of security no longer is sustainable we really have to get out of checking the box and then waiting for the bad guys to show up to verify that security tools are are working or not and the reason why we've got to really do that quickly is there are over a thousand companies that withdrew from the Russian economy over the past uh nine months due to the Ukrainian War there you should expect every one of them to be punished by the Russians for leaving and punished from a cyber standpoint and this is no longer about financial extortion that is ransomware this is about punishing and destroying companies and you can punish any one of these companies by going after them directly or by going after their suppliers and their Distributors so suddenly your attack surface is no more no longer just your own Enterprise it's how you bring your goods to Market and it's how you get your goods created because while I may not be able to disrupt your ability to harvest fruit if I can get those trucks stuck at the border I can increase spoilage and have the same effect and what we should expect to see is this idea of cyber-enabled economic Warfare where if we issue a sanction like Banning the Russians from traveling there is a cyber-enabled counter punch which is corrupt and destroy the American Airlines database that is below the threshold of War that's not going to trigger the 82nd Airborne to be mobilized but it's going to achieve the right effect ban the sale of luxury goods disrupt the supply chain and create shortages banned Russian oil and gas attack refineries to call a 10x spike in gas prices three days before the election this is the future and therefore I think what we have to do is shift towards a wartime mindset which is don't trust your security posture verify it see yourself Through The Eyes of the attacker build that incident response muscle memory and drive better collaboration between the red and the blue teams your suppliers and Distributors and your information uh sharing organization they have in place and what's really valuable for me as a Splunk customer was when a router crashes at that moment you don't know if it's due to an I.T Administration problem or an attacker and what you want to have are different people asking different questions of the same data and you want to have that integrated triage process of an I.T lens to that problem a security lens to that problem and then from there figuring out is is this an IT workflow to execute or a security incident to execute and you want to have all of that as an integrated team integrated process integrated technology stack and this is something that I very care I cared very deeply about as both a Splunk customer and a Splunk CTO that I see time and time again across the board so Patrick I'll leave you with the last word the final three minutes here and I don't see any open questions so please take us home oh man see how you think we spent hours and hours prepping for this together that that last uh uh 40 seconds of your talk track is probably one of the things I'm most passionate about in this industry right now uh and I think nist has done some really interesting work here around building cyber resilient organizations that have that has really I think helped help the industry see that um incidents can come from adverse conditions you know stress is uh uh performance taxations in the infrastructure service or app layer and they can come from malicious compromises uh Insider threats external threat actors and the more that we look at this from the perspective of of a broader cyber resilience Mission uh in a wartime mindset uh I I think we're going to be much better off and and will you talk about with operationally minded ice hacks information sharing intelligence sharing becomes so important in these wartime uh um situations and you know we know not all ice acts are created equal but we're also seeing a lot of um more ad hoc information sharing groups popping up so look I think I think you framed it really really well I love the concept of wartime mindset and um I I like the idea of applying a cyber resilience lens like if you have one more layer on top of that bottom right cake you know I think the it lens and the security lens they roll up to this concept of cyber resilience and I think this has done some great work there for us yeah you're you're spot on and that that is app and that's gonna I think be the the next um terrain that that uh that you're gonna see vendors try to get after but that I think Splunk is best position to win okay that's a wrap for this special Cube presentation you heard all about the global expansion of horizon 3.ai's partner program for their Partners have a unique opportunity to take advantage of their node zero product uh International go to Market expansion North America channel Partnerships and just overall relationships with companies like Splunk to make things more comprehensive in this disruptive cyber security world we live in and hope you enjoyed this program all the videos are available on thecube.net as well as check out Horizon 3 dot AI for their pen test Automation and ultimately their defense system that they use for testing always the environment that you're in great Innovative product and I hope you enjoyed the program again I'm John Furrier host of the cube thanks for watching

why from Las Vegas it's the cube covering informatica world 2018 bacio by inform Attica hey welcome back it runs the cubes exclusive coverage of informatica world 2018 we're here at the Venetian in Las Vegas live I'm John for your co-host with Peterborough's coasting and head of analyst said we keep on insulating all the cube our next guest is jammed the dalla who's the enterprise analytics architecture engineer sire pharmaceutical and some named director of the enterprise analytic solutions lead at sire as well great to have you guys thanks for joining us thank you so love getting the practitioner view of kind of the reality right of what's going on off see dramatic has their show you guys are a customer you're looking at some of their products take a minute first to talk about what you guys do first see Pharma got some stuff going on Davies involved privacy's involves you're in Europe in the u.s. GDP ours here think I'm gonna talk about what you guys do sure so char Pharmaceuticals is a global leader in rare diseases so there's about 350 million patients who are effective remedies is today and so art group with NIT enterprise analytics so we're focused on making sure we bring the right technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics to the organization so we look at products tools figure out how they fit into our our ecosystem of bi stack of tools and make that available to our RIT colleagues as well as our business colleagues so rare disease can you just explain kind of categorically what that is cuz I'm assuming this fits rare is not a lot of data on it or there's data you got to figure out what is that how do you guys categorize that so rare disease you know majority the rare disease affected by affected children so that's a kind of a critical aspect of what we do you know rare disease could be in immunology it could be in oncology GI I mean there's very disease typically you know people who are affected affected probably less than a thousand or 2,000 I think one of our drugs the population is around 5,000 people and these are chronic diseases typically their chronic diseases so they're they're they're diseases that affect the quality of life of an individual so what you guys are doing is identifying what is it about the genealogy etc the genome associated with the disease but then providing treatments that will allow especially kids an opportunity to have live a better life over extensive time yeah and what do you guys do there in terms the data side can you explain what your roles are yeah so like I said we're you're in the enterprise analytics so we're focused on bringing technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics spaces so how do we bring data in and ingest it how do we curate the data how do we do if data visualizations how do we do data discovery advanced analytics so all of those kind of capabilities and we're responsible for so what's your architecture today you have some on premises their cloud involved you just kind of lay out kind of the environment as much as you can share I know maybe some confidential information but for the most part what's the current landscape internally for you guys what are you dealing with the data sure so we fill out a new a new next generation analytics we called it our marketplace or the analytics marketplace we're leveraging both on Prem as well as cloud technologies so we're leveraging Microsoft Azure hdinsight for Hadoop the Big Data technologies as well as informatica for data ingestion and bringing data and transform or transforming yet but there are many tools involved in that one so it's like the whole ecosystem we call does marketplace which is backbone for shared enterprise analytics strategy and future you guys put a policy around what tools people can bring to work so to speak and we're seeing a proliferation of tools there's a tool vendor everywhere we look around the big data it's right I got a tool for this I got a tool for wrangling I've seen everything how do you guys deal with that onslaught of tools coming in do you guys look at it more from a platform respective how are you guys handling that right so look at a platform perspective and we try to bring tools in and make that a standard within the organization we look at you know the security is it enterprise grade technology and yeah it's a challenge I mean they're basically certified you kick the tires give it a pace test through its paces and then we have our own operations team so we can support that that tool set the platform itself so and what are your customers do with the data they doing self service or they data scientists are they like just business analysts what's the profile of the users of your customers of your we have all set of users they have like a technical folks which they want to use the data like traditional ETL reality so there are folks from the business they want to do like self-serve and unless they want to do analysis on the data so we have all the capabilities in our marketplace so some tools enable those guys to get the data for the selves or like the tools we have and dalibor does their own stuff like the eld talk a little bit about the one of the key challenges associated with pharmaceuticals especially in the types of rare disease chronic young people types of things that you guys are mainly focused on a big challenge has always been that people when they start taking a drug that can significantly improve their lives they start to feel better and when they start to feel better they stop taking it so how are you using big data to or using analytics to identify people help describe potential treatments for them help keep them on the regimen how do you do are you first of all are you doing those things and as you do it how are you ensuring that you are compliant with basic ethical and privacy laws and what types of tools are you using to do that it's a big question yeah yeah so we are doing some of that you know we have looked at things around persistence and adherence and understanding kind of you know what what combination of drugs may work best for certain individuals or groups of people yeah and definitely you know some compliance is a big factor in that so when I'm working close with a compliance group understanding how we're allowed to use that data in between which parts of the organization do you anticipate that you'll have a direct relationship as some of these customers or is there an optimist in other words does analytics provide you an opportunity to start to alter the way that you engage the core users of your products and services like I believe so you know I think one thing that we're looking at which strategic standpoint is um how do we diagnose people sooner a lot of these chronic diseases you know they go through 2-3 years of undiagnosed so they'll jump around from you know doctor a doctor if I understand what you know what the issue is so I think one thing we're looking at is how do we use data and AI to to more quickly be able to diagnose patients has a 360 view helped you guys of data you guys have a 360 view how do you cuz we'll look at that in terms of a channel selling a product and serving because we have a different perspective what's the 360 view benefit that you guys are getting yeah so we have a kind of a customer care model which is kind of a 360 for our customer so understanding you know around just drug manufacturing to making sure they have the right you know they have the right supply to understand is it working for the patient's so we've always been talking about the role a big day you mentioned had to do that Hadoop supposed to be this whole industry now it's a feature of data right so there's a variety of you know infrastructure as a service platform as a service some say I pass and Big Data how are you guys looking at that as as as builders of IT next-generation IT the role of I pass and Big Data we see it as a role in a blur you know I think what cloud brings us in the past type solutions is agility you know we as the market is so evolving so quickly and there's new versions of new software coming out so quickly that you wanna be able to embrace that and leverage that give it benefit of like give it some sort of a comparison old way versus a cloud like is there been some immediate benefits that just pop out yeah that a lot more benefits with doing the world way and the cloud way because with the cloud that brings a lot more scalability in in all India's to get like 10 servers you need to work with the infrastructure team I get it like it takes three months or two months again it with the cloud based one you've worked out you can scale up or scale down so that's one thing because it's so you're talking about Big Data yeah you're getting the volume of data you're getting you need to scale up your storage or your any compute you either JMS and compute bring data to the table and then you gotta have the custom tooling for the visualization yeah how that kind of together right you talk about them from your perspective the balance that you have to have guys have to deal with every day like you got to deal with the current situation NIT you got cloud you got an electrical customers personas of people using the product but you got to stay in the cutting edge it's like what's next cuz we going down the cloud road you're looking at containers kubernetes service meshes you need a lot more stuff coming down the pike if you will coming down the road for you guys how are you guys looking at that and how are you managing it you have some greenfield projects do you do a little you know Rd you integrated in how are you dealing with this new cloud native set of technologies yeah definitely a balancing act you know I think we do a lot of pocs and we actually work with our business and IT counterparts to see hey if there's a new use case that is coming down you know how do we solve that use case with some of the newer technologies and we try a POC may bring in a product to just see if it works and then see how do we then do we then take that to the enterprise so I got one final question for you guys and maybe you do as well John but but in life and death businesses like pharmaceuticals is a life and death business the quality of the data is really really important getting it wrong has major implications the fidelity of the system is really crucial you say using informatica for for example ingest and other types of services how has that choice made the business feel more certain about the quality of their data that you're using in your analytic systems into standardization so you know if between MDM round mastering our data - ingesting data transforming our data just having that data lineage having that standard around how that data gets transformed is that fundamentally a feature of the services that you're providing is you not only were you you know the ability to do visualization on data but actually providing your scientists and your businesspeople and your legal staff explicit knowledge about where this data came from and how trustworthy it is and whether they should be making these kind of free complex very real hardcore human level decisions on is that is that all helping yes because it seems like it would be a really crucial determination of what tools you guys would use right it is yeah and absolutely I think also as we move more towards self-service and having these people having data scientists do their things on their own being able to have the tools that can do that kind of audit and data lineage is crucial great to have you guys on we had a wrap I want to ask one more question here you guys were an innovation award e informática congratulations any advice for your peers out there want to unleash the power data and be on the cutting edge and potentially be an honoree yeah I would say just definitely think outside the box seem to try new things try puce you know do POCs is there so much new technologies coming down so quickly that it's hard to keep up Jam cuz it's like a moving target you need to chase your movie target and based on B was it that gets you like what you want it to do you know siding yeah get out front don't keep your eye on the prize yeah focus on task at hand bring in the new technologies guys thanks so much for coming on great to hear the practitioners reality from the trenches certainly front lines you know life-or-death situations of quality of the data matter scaling is important cloud era of data I'm John for a Peterborough's more live coverage after the short break

>> Why don't I spend just a couple minutes talking about what we mean by digital enactment, turning data in models and models into action. And then we'll jump directly into, I'll introduce the panelists after that, and we'll jump directly into the questions. So Wikibon SiliconAngle has been on a mission for quite sometime now to really understand what is the nature of digital transformation, or digital disruption. And historically, when we've talked about digital, people talk about a variety of different characteristics of it, so we'll talk about new types of channels and activity on the web, and a many number of other things. But to really make sense of this, we kind of felt that we had to go to a set of basic principles, and utilize those basic principles to build our observations up. And so what we started with is a simple observation that, if it's not digital, or if it's not data, it ain't digital. By that we mean fundamentally the idea of digital business is how are we going to use data as an asset to differentially drive our business forward? And if we borrowed from Drucker, Drucker used to like to talk about the idea that business exists to create sustained customers, and so we would say that digital business is about applying data assets to differentially create sustained customers. Now to do that successfully, we have to be able to, as businesses, be able to establish a set of strategic business capabilities that will allow us to differentially use data assets. And we think that there are a couple of core strategic business capabilities required. One is human beings and most businesses operate in the analog world, so it's how do we take that analog data and turn it into digital data that we can then process. So that's the first one, the notion of an IOT as a transducer of information so that we can generate these very rich data streams. Secondly we have to be able to do something with those data streams, and that's the basis of big data. So we utilize big data to create models, to create insights, and increasingly through a more declarative style, actually create new types of software systems that will be crucial to driving the business forward. That's the second capability. The third capability is one that we're still coming to understand, and that is we have to take the output of those models, the output of those insights, and then turn them back into some event that has a consequential moment in the real world, or what we call systems of an action. And so the three core business capabilities that have to be built are this capture data through IOT, big data to process it, systems of an action also through IOT, through actuators, to actually that have a consequential action in the real world. So that's the basis of what we're talking about. We're going to take Flavio's vision that he just laid out, and then we, in this panel, are going to talk about some of the business capabilities necessary to make that happen, and then after this, David Foyer will lead a panel on specifically some of the lower level technologies that are going to make it work. Make sense guys? >> Sounds good (mumbles). >> Okay, so let me introduce the panelists. Over, down there on the end, Ted Connell. Ted is from Intel, I don't know if we can get the slide up that has their names and their titles. Ted, why don't you very quickly introduce yourself. >> Yeah, thank you very much. I run Solution Architecture for the manufacturing and industrial vertical, where we put together end to end ecosystem solutions that solve our clients business problems. So we're not selling silicone or semiconductors, we're solving our clients problems, which as Flavio said, requires ecosystem solutions of software, system integrators, and other partners to come together to put together end solutions. >> Excellent, next to Ted is Steve Madden of Equinix. >> Yeah, Steve Madden. Equinix is the largest interconnection, global interconnection company and a lot of the ecosystems that you'll be hearing about, come together inside our locations. And one of the things I do in there is work with our big customers on industry vertical level solutions, IOT being one of them. >> Phu Hoang, from Data Torrent. >> Hi, my name's Phu Hoang, I'm co-founder and chief strategy of a company called Data Torrent, and at Data Torrent, our mission is really to build out solutions to allow enterprises to process big data in a streaming fashion. So that whole theme around ingestion, transformation, analytics, and taking action in sub second on massive data is what we're focusing on. >> And you're familiar with Flavio. Flavio, will you take a second to introduce yourself. >> Yes, thank you, I am leading a company that is trying to manifest the vision highlighted here, building a platform. Not so much the applications, we are hosting the applications (mumbles) the data management and so forth. And trying to apply the industrial vertical first. Big enough to keep us busy for quite a while. >> So in case you didn't know this, we have an interesting panel, we have use case, application, technol infrastructure, and platform. So what' we'll try to do is over the next, say, 10 minutes or so, we're going to spend a little bit of time, again, talking about some of these business capabilities. Let me start off by asking each of you a question, and I will take, if anybody is really burning to ask a question, raise your hand, I'll do my best to see you and I'll share the microphone for just long enough for you to ask it. Okay, so first question, digital business is data. That means we have to think about data differently. Ted, at Intel, what is Intel doing when they think about data as an asset? >> So, Intel has been working on what is now being called Fog, and big data analytics for over a generation. The modern xeon server we're selling, the wire in the electronics if you will, is 10 silicon atoms wide. So to control that process, we've had to do what is called Industry 4.0 20 years ago. So all of our production equipment has been connected for 20 years, we're running... One of our factories will produce a petabyte of data a day, and we're running big data analytics, including machine learning on the stuff currently. If you look at an Intel factory, we have 2,000 fit clients on the factory floor supported by 600 servers in our data center at the factory, just to control the process and run predictive yield analytics. >> Peter: So that's your itch? >> Our competitive advantage at Intel is the factory. We are a manufacturer, we're a world class manufacturer. Our front end factories have zero people in it, not that we don't like people, but we had to fully automate the factory because as I speak, tens of thousands of water molecules are leaving my mouth, and if one of those water molecules lands on a silicon, it ain't going to work. So we had to get people physically out of the factory, and so we were forced by Moore's Law, and the product we build, to build out what became Fog, when they came up with the term seven years ago, we just came to that conclusion because of cost, latency, and security, it made sense to, you know, look, you got data, you got compute, there's a network between. It doesn't matter where you do the compute, bring the compute to the data, the data to the compute. You're doing a compute function, it doesn't matter where you do it. So Fog is not complicated, it's just a distributed data center. >> So when you think about some of the technologies necessary to make this work, it's not just batch, we're going to be doing a lot of stuff in real time, continuously. So Phu, talk a little bit about the system software, the infrastructure software that has to be put in place to ensure that this works for them. >> I think that's great. A little bit about our background, the company was founded by a bunch of ex-Yahoos that had been out for 12, 15 years from the early days. So we sort of grew up in that period where we had to learn about big data, learn about making all the mistakes of big data, and really seeing that nowadays, it's not good enough to get insight, you have to get insight in a timely fashion enough to actually do something about it. And for a lot of enterprise, especially with human being carrying around mobile phones and moving around all over the place, and sensors sending thousands, if not millions of events per second, the need for the business to understand what's going on and react, have insight and react sub second, is crucial. And what that means is the stuff that used to be batch, offline, you know, can kind of go down, now has to be continuous, 24 by seven. You can't lose data, you got to be able to recover and come back to where you were as if nothing has happened with no human intervention. There's a lot of theme around no human intervention, because this stuff is so fast, you can't involve human beings in it, then you're not reacting fast enough. >> Can I real quickly add one thing first? >> Peter: Sure. >> We think of data at Intel in half life terms. >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> The data has valuable right now. If you wait a second, literally a second, the data has a little bit of value. You wait two second, it's historical data you can run regressions, and tell you why you screwed up, but you ain't going to fix anything. >> Exactly. >> If you want to do anything with your data, you got to do it now. >> So that, ultimately, we need to develop experience, a creed experience about what we're doing. And the stuff we're doing in applications will eventually find itself into platforms. So Flavio, talk to us a little bit about the types of things that are going to end up in the platform to ensure that these use cases are made available to, certainly, businesses that perhaps aren't as sophisticated as Intel. >> Yes, so in many ways, we are learning from what is going on in the Cloud, and has to come through this continuum, all the way into the machines. This break between what's going inside the machine, and old 1980 microprocessor and the server, and the Cloud server with virtualization on the other side cannot leave. So it has to be a continuum of computing so you can move the same function, the same container, all the way through first. Second, you really have to take the real time very, very seriously, particularly at the edge, but even in the back so that when you have these end to end continuum, you can decide where you do what. And I think that one of the models that was in that picture with a concentric circle is really telling what we need to learn first. Bring the data back and learn, and that can take time. But then you can have models that are lightweight, that can be brought down to the front, and impact the reaction to the data there. And we heard from a car company, a big car company, how powerful this was when they learned that the angle of a screwdriver, and a few other parameters, can determine the success of screwing something into a body of a car, that could go well, or could go very, very bad and be very costly. So all the learning, massive data, can come down to a simple model that can save a lot of money and improve efficiency. But that has to be hosted along this continuum. >> So from a continuum, it means we still have to have machines somewhere to do something. >> Touching the ground, touching the physical world requires machines, actuators. >> Peter: Absolutely, so Steve, what is Equinix doing to simplify the thinking through of some of these infrastructure issues? >> Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing that people find when they start looking at millions of devices, millions of data capture points, transferring those data real time and streaming it, is one thing hasn't changed and that's physics. So where those things are, where they need to go, where the data needs to move to and how fast, starts with having to figure out your own topology of how you're moving that data. As much as it's easy to say we're just going to buy a platform and choose a device, and we'll clink them together, there's still a lot of other things that need to be solved, physics being the first one. The second one, primarily, is volumes. So how much bandwidth and (mumbles) you're going to require. How much of that data are you going to back haul to centralized data center before you send it up to a Cloud? How much of it are you going to leave at the edge? Where do you place that becomes a bigger deal. And the third one is pretty much every industry has to deal with regulations. Regulations control what you can and can't do in terms of IT delivery, where you can place stuff, where you cannot place stuff, data that can leave the country, data that can't. So all these things mean that you need to have a thought through process of where you're placing certain functions, and what you're defining as your itch between the digital and physical world. And Equinix is an interconnection company that's sitting there as a neutral party across all the networks, all the clouds, all the enterprises, all the providers to help people figure that out. >> So before I ask the audience a question, now that I'm down here so I can see you so be prepared, I'm going to ask some of you a question. When you think about the strategic business capabilities necessary to succeed, what is the first thing that the business has to do? So why don't I just take Ted, and just go right on down the line. >> Yeah, so I think this is really, really important. I work with many, many clients around the world who are doing five, 10, 15 POCs, pilots, and the internet things, and they haven't thought through a codified strategy. So they're doing five things that will never fit together, that you will never scale, and the learnings you're using, you really can't do that much with. So coming up with what is my architecture, what is my stack going to look like, how am I going to push data, what is my data... You know, because when you connect to these things, I can't tell you how much data you're going to get. You're going to be overwhelmed by the data, and that's why we all go to the edge, and I got to process this data real time. And oh, by the way, if I only have one source of data, like I'm connecting to production equipment, you're not going to learn anything. 98% of that data's useless, you got to contextualize the data with either an inspection step, or some kind of contextualization that tells you if this then that. You need the then that, without that, your data is basically worthless. So now you're pulling multiple sources of data together in real time to make an understanding. And so understanding what that architecture looks like, spend the time upfront. Look, most of us are engineers, you know five percent additional work upfront saves you 95% on the backend, that's true here. So think through the architecture, talk to some of us who have been working in this area for a long time. We'll share our architecture, we have reference architecture that we're working with companies. How do you go from industry 2.0 or industry 3.0, to industry 4.0? And there is a logical path to do it, but ultimately, where we're going to end up is a software defined universe. I mean, what's a cloud? It's a software defined data center. Now we're doing software defined networks, software defined storages, ultimately we're going to be doing software defined systems because it's cheaper. You get better capital utilization, better asset utilization, so we will go there, so what does that mean for you infrastructure, and what are you going to do from an architectural perspective, and then take all of your POCs and pilots, and force them to do that specifically around security. People are doing POCs with security that they don't even have any protocols, they're violating all their industry standards doing POCs, and that's going to get thrown out. It's wasted time, wasted effort, don't do it. >> Steve, a couple sentences? >> Yeah, essentially it's not going to be any prizes for me saying think interconnection first. A lot of our customers, if we look at what they've done with us, everyone from GE to real time facial recognition at the edge, it all comes down to how are you wired, topology wise, first. You can't use the internet for risk reasons, you can't necessarily pay for multiple (mumbles) bandwidth costs, et cetera. So low latency, 80% lower latency, seven times of bandwidth at half the cost is a scalable infrastructure to move (mumbles) around the planet. If you don't have that, the rest of the stuff (mumbles) breakdown. >> Peter: Phu? >> Well I would say that analytics is hard, analytics in real time is even harder. And I think with us talking to our customers, I feel for them, they're confused. There's like a million solutions out there, everybody's trying to claim to do the same thing. I think it's both sides, consumers have to get more educated, they have to be more intelligent about their POCs, but as an industry, we also have to get better at thinking about how do we help our customer succeed. It's not about let me give you some open source, and then let me spend the next 10 months charging you professional services to help you. We ought to think about software tools and enterprise tools to really help the customer be able to think about their total cost (mumbles) and time to value to handle this thing, because it's not easy. >> Peter: Flavio. >> Yeah, we're facing an interesting situation where the customers are ready, the needs are there, the marketing is going to be huge, but the plot, the solution, is not trivial. It is maturing and we are all trying to understand how to do it. And this is the confusion that you see in many of these half baked solution (mumbles). Everything is coming together, and you have to go up the stalk and down the stalk with full confidence, that's not easy. So we all have to really work together. Give ourselves time, be feeling that we are in a competitive world, preparing for addressing together a huge market. And trying to mature these solutions that then will be replicated more and more, but we have to be patient with each other, and with the technologies that are maturing and they're not fully there and understood. But the market is amazing. >> Peter: So we have a Twitter question. >> Man: It's being live streamed, the audience is really engaged online as well, digital. So we have a question from Twitter from Lauren Cooney saying, "Would like to know what industries would "be most impacted with digitization "over the next five years." >> Which one won't be? (men laughing) All of them, what we've seen, the business model is the data. I mean, our CEOs calling data the new gold. I mean, it's the new oil. So I don't know of anything, unless you're doing something that is just physical therapy, but that even data, you can do data on that. So yeah, everything, yeah, I don't know of anything that won't be. >> I think the real question is how is it going to move through industries. Obviously it's going to start with some of the digital native, it's all ready deep into that, deep into media, we're moving through the media right now. Intel's clearly a digital company, and you've been working, you've been on this path for quite some time. >> Let me give you a stat. Intel has a 105,000 people, and 144,000 servers. So we're about 1.5 server to people, that's what kind of computation we're (mumbles). >> Peter: We can help you work on that. >> If you do like the networking started by (mumbles) the internet, then content delivery, and media, hard media, et cetera, is gone. Financial services and trading exchanges pretty much show what digital market's going to be in the future. Cloud showed up, and now, I think he's right, it's effecting every industry. Manufacturing, industrial, health professional services are the top three right now. But people who shop to ask for help went from every industry on every country, for that matter. >> Our customers are, you know, the top players in almost every vertical. You start out as a small company thinking that you're going to attack one vertical, but as you start to talk about the capability, everybody (mumbles) wait, you're solving my problem. >> Peter: (mumbles) are followers, is what you mean. >> Yeah, because what business would say, hey, I don't want to know what's going on with my business, and I don't want to take any action. >> Add to that it's an ecosystem of ecosystems. No one, by themselves, is going to solve anything. They have to partner and connect with other people to solve the solution. >> So I'll close the panel by making these kind of summary comments, the business capabilities that we think are going to be most important are, first off, when we talk about the internet of things, we like to talk about the internet of things and people. That the people equation doesn't go away. So we're building on mobile, we're building on other things, but if there's a strategic capability that's going to be required, it's going to be how is this going to impact folks who actually create value in the business. The second one, I'll turn it around, is that IT organizations have gone through a number of different range wars, if you will, over the past 20 years. I lived through IT versus telecom, for example. The IT, OT conflict, or potential conflict, is non trivial. There's going to be some serious work that has to be done, so I would add to the conversation that we've heard thus far, the answers that we've heard thus far, is the degree to which people are going to be essential to making this work, and how we diffuse this knowledge into our employees, and into our IT and professional communities is going to be crucial, especially with developers because Flavio, if we are, right now, trying to figure stuff out, it really matures when we think about the developer world. Okay, so I want to close the first panel and get ready for the second panel. So thank you very much, and thank you very much to our panelists. (audience applauding) And if we could bring David Foyer and the second panel up, we'll get going on panel two. Oh, we're going to get together for a picture. (exciting rhythmic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's The Cube, covering Big Data Silicon Valley 20-17. (rhythmic music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We're live in Silicon Valley for Big Data SV, Big Data Silicon Valley in conjunction with Strata + Hadoob. This is the week where it all happens in Silicon Valley around the emergence of the Big Data as it goes to the next level. The Cube is actually on the ground covering it like a blanket. I'm John Furrier. My cohost, George Gilbert with Boogie Bond. And our next guest, we have two executives from Zeloni, Ben Sharma, who's the founder and CEO, and Tony Fischer, SVP and strategy. Guys, welcome back to The Cube. Good to see you. >> Thank you for having us back. >> You guys are great guests. You're in New York for Big Data NYC, and a lot is going on, certainly, here, and it's just getting kicked off with Strata-Hadoob, they got the sessions today, but you guys have already got some news out there. Give us the update. What's the big discussion at the show? >> So yeah, 20-16 was a great year for us. A lot of growth. We tripled our customer base, and a lot of interest in data lake, as customers are going from say Pilot and POCs into production implementation so far though. And in conjunction with that, this week we launched what we call a solution named Data Lake in a Box, appropriately, right? So what that means is we're bringing the full stack together to customers, so that we can get a data lake up and running in eight weeks time frame, with enterprise create data ingestion from their source systems hydrated into the data lake and ready for analytics. >> So is it a pretty big box, and is it waterproof? (all laughing) I mean, this is the big discussion now, pun intended. But the data lake is evolving, so I wanted to get your take on it. This is kind of been a theme that's been leading up and now front and center here on The Cube. Already the data lake has changed, also we've heard, I think Dave Alante in New York said data swamp. But using the data is critical on a data lake. So as it goes to more mature model of leveraging the data, what are the key trends right now? What are you guys seeing? Because this is a hot topic that everyone is talking about. >> Well, that's a good distinction that we like to make, is the difference between a data swamp and a data lake. >> And a data lake is much more governed. It has the rigor, it has the automation, it has a lot of the concepts that people are used to from traditional architectures, only we apply them in the scale-out architecture. So we put together a maturity model that really maps out a customer's journey throughout the big data and the data lake experience. And each phase of this, we can see what the customer's doing, what their trends are and where they want to go, and we can advise to them the right way to move forward. And so a lot of the customers we see are kind of in kind of what we call the ignore stage. I'd say most of the people we talk to are just ignoring. They don't have things active, but they're doing a lot of research. They're trying to figure out what's next. And we want to move them from there. The next stage up is called store. And store is basically just the sandbox environment. "I'm going to stick stuff in there." "I'm going to hope something comes out of it." No collaboration. But then, moving forward, there's the managed phase, the automated phase, and the optimized phase. And our goal is to move them up into those phases as quickly as possible. And data lake in a box is an effort to do that, to leapfrog them into a managed data lake environment. >> So that's kind of where the swamp analogy comes in, because the data lake, the swamp is kind of dirty, where you can almost think, "Okay, the first step is store it." And then they get busy or they try to figure out how to operationalize it, and then it's kind of like, "Uh ..." So your point, they're trying to get to that. So you guys get 'em to that set up, and then move them quickly to value? Is that kind of the approach? >> Yeah. So, time to value is critical, right? So how do you reduce the time to insight from the time the data is produced by the date producer, till the time you can make the data available to the data consumer for analytics and downstream use cases. So that's kind of our core focus in bringing these solutions to the market. >> Dave often and I were talking, and George always talk about the value of data at the right time at the right place, is the critical lynch-pin for the value, whether it's an app-driven, or whatever. So the data lake, you never know what data in the data lake will need to be pulled out and put into either real time or an app. So you have to assume at any given moment there's going to be data value. >> Sure >> So that, conceptually, people can get that. But how do you make that happen? Because that's a really hard problem. How do you guys tackle that when a customer says, "Hey, I want to do the data lake. "I've got to have the coverage. "I got to know who's accessing stuff. "But at the end of the day, "I got to move the data to where it's valuable." >> Sure. So the approach we have taken is with an integrated platform with a common metadata layer. Metadata is the key. So, using this common metadata layer, being able to do managed ingestion from various different sources, being able to do data validation and data quality, being able to manage the life cycle of the data, being able to generate these insights about the data itself, so that you can use that effectively for data science or for downstream applications and use cases is critical based on our experience of taking these applications from, say, a POC pilot phase into a production phase. >> And what's the next step, once you guys get to that point with the metadata? Because, like, I get that, it's like everyone's got the metadata focus. Now, I'm the data engineer, the data NG or the geek, the supergeek and then you've got the data science, then the analysts, then there will probably be a new category, a bot or something AI will do something. But you can have a spectrum of applications on the data side. How do they get access to the metadata? Is it through the machine learning? Do you guys have anything unique there that makes that seamless or is that the end goal? >> Sure, do you want to take that? >> Yes sure, it's a multi-pronged answer, but I'll start and you can jump in. One of the things we provide as part of our overall platform is a product called Micah. And Micah is really the kind of on-ramp to the data. And all those people that you just named, we love them all, but their access to the data is through a self-service data preparation product, and key to that is the metadata repository. So, all the metadata is out there; we call it a catalog at that point, and so they can go in, look at the catalog, get a sense for the data, get an understanding for the form and function of the data, see who uses it, see where it's used, and determine if that's the data that they want, and if it is, they have the ability to refine it further, or they can put it in a shopping cart if they have access to it, they can get it immediately, they can refine it, if they don't have access to it, there's an automatic request that they can get access to it. And so it's a onramp concept, of having a card catalog of all the information that's out there, how it's being used, how it's been refined, to allow the end user to make sure that they've got the right data, they can be positioned for their ultimate application. >> And just to add to what Tony said, because we are using this common metadata layer, and capturing metadata every instance, if you will, we are serving it up to the data consumers, using a rich catalog, so that a lot of our enterprise customers are now starting to create what they consider a data marketplace or a data portal within their organization, so that they're able to catalog not just the data that's in the data lake, but also data that's in other data stores. And provide one single unified view of these data sets, so that your data scientists can come in and see is this a data set that I can use for my model building? What are the different attributes of this data set? What is the quality of the data? How fresh is the data? And those kind of traits, so that they are effective in their analytical journey. >> I think that's the key thing that's interesting to me, is that you're seeing the big data explosions over the past ten years, eight years, we've been covering The Cube since the dupe world started. But now, it's the data set world, so it's a big data set in this market. The data sets are the key because that's what data scientists want to wrangle around with, and sling data sets with whatever tooling they want to use. Is that kind of the same trend that you guys see? >> That's correct. And also what we're seeing in the marketplace, is that customers are moving from a single architecture to a distributed architecture, where they may have a hybrid environment with some things being instantiated in the Cloud, some things being on PRIM. So how do you not provide a unified interface across these multiple environments, and in a governed way, so that the right people have access to the right data, and it's not the data swamp. >> Okay, so lets go back to the maturity model because I like that framework. So now you've just complicated the heck out of it. Cause now you've got Cloud, and then on PRIM, and then now, how do you put that prism of maturity model, on now hybrid, so how does that cross-connect there? And a second follow-up to that is, where are the customers on this progress bar? I'm sure they're different by customer but, so, maturity model to the hybrid, and then trends in the customer base that you're seeing? >> Alright, I'll take the second one, and then you can take the first one, okay? So, the vast majority of the people that we work with, and the people, the prospects customers, analysts we've talked to, other industry dignitaries, they put the vast majority of the customers in the ignore stage. Really just doing their research. So a good 50% plus of most organizations are still in that stage. And then, the data swamp environment, that I'm using it to store stuff, hopefully I'll get something good out of it. That's another 25% of the population. And so, most of the customers are there, and we're trying to move them kind of rapidly up and into a managed and automated data lake environment. The other trend along these lines that we're seeing, that's pretty interesting, is the emergence of IT in the big data world. It used to be a business user's world, and business users built these sandboxes, and business users did what they wanted to. But now, we see organizations that are really starting to bring IT into the fold, because they need the governance, they need the automation, they need the type of rigor that they're used to, in other data environments, and has been lacking in the big data environment. >> And you've got the IOT code cracking the code on the IOT side which has created another dimension of complexity. On the numbers of the 50% that ignore, is that profile more for Fortune 1000? >> It's larger companies, it's Fortune, and Global 2000. >> Got it, okay, and the terms of the hybrid maturity model, how's that, and add a third dimension, IOT, we've got a multi-dimensional chess game going here. >> I think they way we think about it is, that they're different patterns of data sets coming in. So they could be batched, they could be files, or database extracts, or they could be streams, right? So as long as you think about a converged architecture that can handle these different patterns, then you can map different use cases whether they are IOT and streaming use cases versus what we are seeing is that a lot of companies are trying to replace their operational analytics platforms with a data lake environment, and they're building their operational analytics on top of the data lake, correct? So you need to think more from an abstraction layer, how do you abstract it out? Because one of the challenges that we see customers facing, is that they don't want to get sticky with one Cloud service provider because they may have multiple Cloud service providers, >> John: It's a multi-Cloud world right now. >> So how do you leverage that, where you have one Cloud service provider in one geo, another Cloud service provider in another geo, and still being able to have an abstraction layer on top of it, so that you're building applications? >> So do you guys provide that data layer across that abstraction? >> That is correct, yes, so we leverage the ecosystem, but what we do is add the data management and data governance layer, we provide that abstraction, so that you can be on PREM, you can be in Cloud service provider one, or Cloud service provider two. You still have the same controls, and same governance functions as you build your data lake environment. >> And this is consistent with some of the Cube interviews we had all day today, and other Cube interviews, where when you had the Cloud, you're renting basically, but you own your data. You get to have a nice ... And that metadata seems to be the key, that's the key, right? For everything. >> That's right. And now what we're seeing is that a lot of our Enterprise customers are looking at bringing in some of the public cloud infrastructure into their on-PRAM environment as they are going to be available in appliances and things like that, right? So how do you then make sure that whatever you're doing in a non-enterprise cloud environment you are also able to extend it to the enterprise-- >> And the consequences to the enterprise is that the enterprise multiple jobs, if they don't have a consistent data layer ... >> Sure, yeah. >> It's just more redundancy. >> Exactly. >> Not redundancy, duplication actually. >> Yeah, duplication and difficulty of rationalizing it together. >> So let me drill down into a little more detail on the transition between these sort of maturity phases? And then the movement into production apps. I'm curious to know, we've heard Tableau, XL, Power BI, Click I guess, being-- sort of adapting to being front ends to big data. But they don't, for their experience to work they can't really handle big data sets. So you need the MPP sequel database on the data lake. And I guess the question there is is there value to be gotten or measurable value to be gotten just from turning the data lake into you know, interactive BI kind of platform? And sort of as the first step along that maturity model. >> One of the patterns we were seeing is that serving LIR is becoming more and more mature in the data lake, so that earlier it used to be mainly batch type of workloads. Now, with MPP engines running on the data lake itself, you are able to connect your existing BI applications, whether it's Tableau, Click, Power BI, and others, to these engines so that you are able to get low-latency query response times and are able to slice-and-dice your data sets in the data lake itself. >> But you're essentially still, you have to sample the data. You can't handle the full data set unless you're working with something like Zoom Data. >> Yeah, so there are physical limitations obviously. And then there are also this next generation of BI tools which work in a converged manner in the data lake itself. So there's like Zoom Data, Arcadia, and others that are able to kind of run inside the data lake itself instead of you having to have an external environment like the other BI tools, so we see that as a pattern. But if you already are an enterprise, you have on board a BI platform, how do you leverage that with the data lake as part of the next-generation architecture is a key trend that we are seeing. >> So that your metadata helps make that from swamp to curated data lake. >> That's right, and not only that what we have done, as Tony was mentioning, in our Micah product we have a self-service catalog and then we provide a shopping cart experience where you can actually source data sets into the shopping cart, and we let them provision a sandbox. And when they provision the sandbox, they can actually launch Tableau or whatever the BI tool of choice is on that sandbox, so that they can actually-- and that sandbox could exist in the data lake or it could exist on a relational data store or an MPP data store that's outside of the data lake. That's part of your modern data architecture. >> But further to your point, if people have to throw out all of their decision support applications and their BI applications in order to change their data infrastructure, they're not going to do it. >> Understood. >> So you have to make that environment work and that's what Ben's referring to with a lot of the new accelerator tools and things that will sit on top of the data lake. >> Guys, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate it. I'll give you guys the final word in the segment ... What do you expect this week? I mean, obviously, we've been seeing the consolidation. You're starting to see the swim lanes of with Spark and Open Source and you see the cloud and IOT colliding, there's a huge intersection with deep learning, AI is certainly hyped up now beyond all recognition but it's essentially deep learning. Neural networks meets machine learning. That's been around before, but now freely available with Cloud and Compute. And so kind of a interesting dynamic that's rockin' the big data world. Your thoughts on what we're going to see this week and how that relates to the industry? >> I'll take a stab at it and you may feel free to jump in. I think what we'll see is that lot of customers that have been playing with big data for a couple of years are now getting to a point where what worked for one or two use cases now needs to be scaled out and provided at an enterprise scale. So they're looking at a managed and a governance layer to put on top of the platform. So they can enable machine learning and AI and all those use cases, because business is asking for them. Right? Business is asking for how they can bring intenser flow and run on the data lake itself, right? So we see those kind of requirements coming up more and more frequently. >> Awesome. Tony? >> What he said. >> And enterprise readiness certainly has to be table-- there's a lot of table stakes in the enterprise. It's not like, easy to get into, you can see Google kind of just putting their toe in the water with the Google cloud, tenser flow, great highlight they got spanner, so all these other things like latency rearing their heads again. So these are all kind of table stakes. >> Yeah, and the other thing, moving forward with respect to machine learning and some of the advanced algorithms, what we're doing now and some of the research we're doing is actually using machine learning to manage the data lake, which is a new concept, so when we get to the optimized phase of our maturity model, a lot of that has to do with self-correcting and self-automating. >> I need some machine learning and some AI, so does George and we need machine learning to watch the machine learn, and then algorithmists for algorithms. It's a crazy world, exciting time for us. >> Are we going to have a bot next time when we come here? (all laughing) >> We're going to chat off of messenger, we just came from south by southwest. Guys, thanks for coming on The Cube. Great insight and congratulations on the continued momentum. This is The Cube breakin' it down with experts, CEOs, entrepreneurs, all here inside The Cube. Big Data Sv, I'm John for George Gilbert. We'll be back after this short break. Thanks! (upbeat electronic music)