(upbeat music) >> From theCube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCube and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> While by no means a safe haven, the cybersecurity sector has outpaced the broader tech market by a meaningful margin, that is up until very recently. Cybersecurity remains the number one technology priority for the C-suite, but as we've previously reported the CISO's budget has constraints just like other technology investments. Recent trends show that economic headwinds have elongated sales cycles, pushed deals into future quarters, and just like other tech initiatives, are pacing cybersecurity investments and breaking them into smaller chunks. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis we explain how cybersecurity trends are reverting to the mean and tracking more closely with other technology investments. We'll make a couple of valuation comparisons to show the magnitude of the challenge and which cyber firms are feeling the heat, which aren't. There are some exceptions. We'll then show the latest survey data from ETR to quantify the contraction in spending momentum and close with a glimpse of the landscape of emerging cybersecurity companies, the private companies that could be ripe for acquisition, consolidation, or disruptive to the broader market. First, let's take a look at the recent patterns for cyber stocks relative to the broader tech market as a benchmark, as an indicator. Here's a year to date comparison of the bug ETF, which comprises a basket of cyber security names, and we compare that with the tech heavy NASDAQ composite. Notice that on April 13th of this year the cyber ETF was actually in positive territory while the NAS was down nearly 14%. Now by August 16th, the green turned red for cyber stocks but they still meaningfully outpaced the broader tech market by more than 950 basis points as of December 2nd that Delta had contracted. As you can see, the cyber ETF is now down nearly 25%, year to date, while the NASDAQ is down 27% and change. Now take a look at just how far a few of the high profile cybersecurity names have fallen. Here are six security firms that we've been tracking closely since before the pandemic. We've been, you know, tracking dozens but let's just take a look at this data and the subset. We show for comparison the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ, again, just for reference, they're both up since right before the pandemic. They're up relative to right before the pandemic, and then during the pandemic the S&P shot up more than 40%, relative to its pre pandemic level, around February is what we're using for the pre pandemic level, and the NASDAQ peaked at around 65% higher than that February level. They're now down 85% and 71% of their previous. So they're at 85% and 71% respectively from their pandemic highs. You compare that to these six companies, Splunk, which was and still is working through a transition is well below its pre pandemic market value and 44, it's 44% of its pre pandemic high as of last Friday. Palo Alto Networks is the most interesting here, in that it had been facing challenges prior to the pandemic related to a pivot to the Cloud which we reported on at the time. But as we said at that time we believe the company would sort out its Cloud transition, and its go to market challenges, and sales compensation issues, which it did as you can see. And its valuation jumped from 24 billion prior to Covid to 56 billion, and it's holding 93% of its peak value. Its revenue run rate is now over 6 billion with a healthy growth rate of 24% expected for the next quarter. Similarly, Fortinet has done relatively well holding 71% of its peak Covid value, with a healthy 34% revenue guide for the coming quarter. Now, Okta has been the biggest disappointment, a darling of the pandemic Okta's communication snafu, with what was actually a pretty benign hack combined with difficulty absorbing its 7 billion off zero acquisition, knocked the company off track. Its valuation has dropped by 35 billion since its peak during the pandemic, and that's after a nice beat and bounce back quarter just announced by Okta. Now, in our view Okta remains a viable long-term leader in identity. However, its recent fiscal 24 revenue guide was exceedingly conservative at around 16% growth. So either the company is sandbagging, or has such poor visibility that it wants to be like super cautious or maybe it's actually seeing a dramatic slowdown in its business momentum. After all, this is a company that not long ago was putting up 50% plus revenue growth rates. So it's one that bears close watching. CrowdStrike is another big name that we've been talking about on Breaking Analysis for quite some time. It like Okta has led the industry in a key ETR performance indicator that measures customer spending momentum. Just last week, CrowdStrike announced revenue increased more than 50% but new ARR was soft and the company guided conservatively. Not surprisingly, the stock got absolutely crushed as CrowdStrike blamed tepid demand from smaller and midsize firms. Many analysts believe that competition from Microsoft was one factor along with cautious spending amongst those midsize and smaller customers. Notably, large customers remain active. So we'll see if this is a longer term trend or an anomaly. Zscaler is another company in the space that we've reported having great customer spending momentum from the ETR data. But even though the company beat expectations for its recent quarter, like other companies its Outlook was conservative. So other than Palo Alto, and to a lesser extent Fortinet, these companies and others that we're not showing here are feeling the economic pinch and it shows in the compression of value. CrowdStrike, for example, had a 70 billion valuation at one point during the pandemic Zscaler top 50 billion, Okta 45 billion. Now, having said that Palo Alto Networks, Fortinet, CrowdStrike, and Zscaler are all still trading well above their pre pandemic levels that we tracked back in February of 2020. All right, let's go now back to ETR'S January survey and take a look at how much things have changed since the beginning of the year. Remember, this is obviously pre Ukraine, and pre all the concerns about the economic headwinds but here's an X Y graph that shows a net score, or spending momentum on the y-axis, and market presence on the x-axis. The red dotted line at 40% on the vertical indicates a highly elevated net score. Anything above that we think is, you know, super elevated. Now, we filtered the data here to show only those companies with more than 50 responses in the ETR survey. Still really crowded. Note that there were around 20 companies above that red 40% mark, which is a very, you know, high number. It's a, it's a crowded market, but lots of companies with, you know, positive momentum. Now let's jump ahead to the most recent October survey and take a look at what, what's happening. Same graphic plotting, spending momentum, and market presence, and look at the number of companies above that red line and how it's been squashed. It's really compressing, it's still a crowded market, it's still, you know, plenty of green, but the number of companies above 40% that, that key mark has gone from around 20 firms down to about five or six. And it speaks to that compression and IT spending, and of course the elongated sales cycles pushing deals out, taking them in smaller chunks. I can't tell you how many conversations with customers I had, at last week at Reinvent underscoring this exact same trend. The buyers are getting pressure from their CFOs to slow things down, do more with less and, and, and prioritize projects to those that absolutely are critical to driving revenue or cutting costs. And that's rippling through all sectors, including cyber. Now, let's do a bit more playing around with the ETR data and take a look at those companies with more than a hundred citations in the survey this quarter. So N, greater than or equal to a hundred. Now remember the followers of Breaking Analysis know that each quarter we take a look at those, what we call four star security firms. That is, those are the, that are in, that hit the top 10 for both spending momentum, net score, and the N, the mentions in the survey, the presence, the pervasiveness in the survey, and that's what we show here. The left most chart is sorted by spending momentum or net score, and the right hand chart by shared N, or the number of mentions in the survey, that pervasiveness metric. that solid red line denotes the cutoff point at the top 10. And you'll note we've actually cut it off at 11 to account for Auth 0, which is now part of Okta, and is going through a go to market transition, you know, with the company, they're kind of restructuring sales so they can take advantage of that. So starting on the left with spending momentum, again, net score, Microsoft leads all vendors, typical Microsoft, very prominent, although it hadn't always done so, it, for a while, CrowdStrike and Okta were, were taking the top spot, now it's Microsoft. CrowdStrike, still always near the top, but note that CyberArk and Cloudflare have cracked the top five in Okta, which as I just said was consistently at the top, has dropped well off its previous highs. You'll notice that Palo Alto Network Palo Alto Networks with a 38% net score, just below that magic 40% number, is healthy, especially as you look over to the right hand chart. Take a look at Palo Alto with an N of 395. It is the largest of the independent pure play security firms, and has a very healthy net score, although one caution is that net score has dropped considerably since the beginning of the year, which is the case for most of the top 10 names. The only exception is Fortinet, they're the only ones that saw an increase since January in spending momentum as ETR measures it. Now this brings us to the four star security firms, that is those that hit the top 10 in both net score on the left hand side and market presence on the right hand side. So it's Microsoft, Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Okta, still there even not accounting for a Auth 0, just Okta on its own. If you put in Auth 0, it's, it's even stronger. Adding then in Fortinet and Zscaler. So Microsoft, Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Okta, Fortinet, and Zscaler. And as we've mentioned since January, only Fortinet has shown an increase in net score since, since that time, again, since the January survey. Now again, this talks to the compression in spending. Now one of the big themes we hear constantly in cybersecurity is the market is overcrowded. Everybody talks about that, me included. The implication there, is there's a lot of room for consolidation and that consolidation can come in the form of M&A, or it can come in the form of people consolidating onto a single platform, and retiring some other vendors, and getting rid of duplicate vendors. We're hearing that as a big theme as well. Now, as we saw in the previous, previous chart, this is a very crowded market and we've seen lots of consolidation in 2022, in the form of M&A. Literally hundreds of M&A deals, with some of the largest companies going private. SailPoint, KnowBe4, Barracuda, Mandiant, Fedora, these are multi billion dollar acquisitions, or at least billion dollars and up, and many of them multi-billion, for these companies, and hundreds more acquisitions in the cyberspace, now less you think the pond is overfished, here's a chart from ETR of emerging tech companies in the cyber security industry. This data comes from ETR's Emerging Technologies Survey, ETS, which is this diamond in a rough that I found a couple quarters ago, and it's ripe with companies that are candidates for M&A. Many would've liked, many of these companies would've liked to, gotten to the public markets during the pandemic, but they, you know, couldn't get there. They weren't ready. So the graph, you know, similar to the previous one, but different, it shows net sentiment on the vertical axis and that's a measurement of, of, of intent to adopt against a mind share on the X axis, which measures, measures the awareness of the vendor in the community. So this is specifically a survey that ETR goes out and, and, and fields only to track those emerging tech companies that are private companies. Now, some of the standouts in Mindshare, are OneTrust, BeyondTrust, Tanium and Endpoint, Net Scope, which we've talked about in previous Breaking Analysis. 1Password, which has been acquisitive on its own. In identity, the managed security service provider, Arctic Wolf Network, a company we've also covered, we've had their CEO on. We've talked about MSSPs as a real trend, particularly in small and medium sized business, we'll come back to that, Sneek, you know, kind of high flyer in both app security and containers, and you can just see the number of companies in the space this huge and it just keeps growing. Now, just to make it a bit easier on the eyes we filtered the data on these companies with with those, and isolated on those with more than a hundred responses only within the survey. And that's what we show here. Some of the names that we just mentioned are a bit easier to see, but these are the ones that really stand out in ERT, ETS, survey of private companies, OneTrust, BeyondTrust, Taniam, Netscope, which is in Cloud, 1Password, Arctic Wolf, Sneek, BitSight, SecurityScorecard, HackerOne, Code42, and Exabeam, and Sim. All of these hit the ETS survey with more than a hundred responses by, by the IT practitioners. Okay, so these firms, you know, maybe they do some M&A on their own. We've seen that with Sneek, as I said, with 1Password has been inquisitive, as have others. Now these companies with the larger footprint, these private companies, will likely be candidate for both buying companies and eventually going public when the markets settle down a bit. So again, no shortage of players to affect consolidation, both buyers and sellers. Okay, so let's finish with some key questions that we're watching. CrowdStrike in particular on its earnings calls cited softness from smaller buyers. Is that because these smaller buyers have stopped adopting? If so, are they more at risk, or are they tactically moving toward the easy button, aka, Microsoft's good enough approach. What does that mean for the market if smaller company cohorts continue to soften? How about MSSPs? Will companies continue to outsource, or pause on on that, as well as try to free up, to try to free up some budget? Adam Celiski at Reinvent last week said, "If you want to save money the Cloud's the best place to do it." Is the cloud the best place to save money in cyber? Well, it would seem that way from the standpoint of controlling budgets with lots of, lots of optionality. You could dial up and dial down services, you know, or does the Cloud add another layer of complexity that has to be understood and managed by Devs, for example? Now, consolidation should favor the likes of Palo Alto and CrowdStrike, cause they're platform players, and some of the larger players as well, like Cisco, how about IBM and of course Microsoft. Will that happen? And how will economic uncertainty impact the risk equation, a particular concern is increase of tax on vulnerable sectors of the population, like the elderly. How will companies and governments protect them from scams? And finally, how many cybersecurity companies can actually remain independent in the slingshot economy? In so many ways the market is still strong, it's just that expectations got ahead of themselves, and now as earnings forecast come, come, come down and come down to earth, it's going to basically come down to who can execute, generate cash, and keep enough runway to get through the knothole. And the one certainty is nobody really knows how tight that knothole really is. All right, let's call it a wrap. Next week we dive deeper into Palo Alto Networks, and take a look at how and why that company has held up so well and what to expect at Ignite, Palo Alto's big user conference coming up later this month in Las Vegas. We'll be there with theCube. Okay, many thanks to Alex Myerson on production and manages the podcast, Ken Schiffman as well, as our newest edition to our Boston studio. Great to have you Ken. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our EIC over at Silicon Angle. He does some great editing for us. Thank you to all. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibond.com and siliconangle.com, or you can email me directly David.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante, or comment on our LinkedIn posts. Please do checkout etr.ai, they got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (upbeat music)

>>We're back with a blueprint for trusted infrastructure and partnership with Dell Technologies in the cube. And we're here with Mahesh Nager, who is a consultant in the area of networking product management at Dell Technologies. Mahesh, welcome. Good to see you. >>Hey, good morning Davis. Nice to meet, Meet to you as well. >>Hey, so we've been digging into all the parts of the infrastructure stack and now we're gonna look at the all important networking components. Mahesh, when we think about networking in today's environment, we think about the core data center and we're connecting out to various locations including the cloud and both the near and the far edge. So the question is from Dell's perspective, what's unique and challenging about securing network infrastructure that we should know about? >>Yeah, so a few years ago IT security and an enterprise was primarily putting a wrapper around the data center because it was constrained to an infrastructure owned and operated by the enterprise for the most part. So putting a rapid around it like a parameter or a firewall was a sufficient response because you could basically control the one small enough control today with the distributed data, intelligent software, different systems, multi-cloud onement and asset service delivery, you know, the infrastructure for the modern era changes the way to secure the network infrastructure. In today's, you know, data driven world, it operates everywhere. And that has created and accessed everywhere so far from, you know, the centralized mono data centers of the past. The biggest challenge is how do we build the network infrastructure of the modern era that are intelligent with automation, enabling maximum flexibility and business agility without any compromise on the security. We believe that in this data era, the security transformation must accompany digital transformation. >>Yeah, that's very good. You talked about a couple of things there. Data by its very nature is distributed. There is no perimeter anymore, so you can't just, as you say, put a wrap around it. I like the way you phrase that. So when you think about cyber security resilience from a networking perspective, how do you define that? In other words, what are the basic principles that you adhere to when thinking about securing network infrastructure for your customers? >>So our belief is that cybersecurity and cybersecurity resilience, they need to be holistic. They need to be integrated, scalable, one that spans the entire enterprise and with a consistent and objective and policy implementation. So cybersecurity needs to span across all the devices and running across any application, whether the application resets on the cloud or anywhere else in the infrastructure. From a networking standpoint, what does it mean? It's again, the same principles, right? You know, in order to prevent the threat actors from accessing, changing, destroying, or stealing sensitive data, this definition holds good for networking as well. So if you look at it from a networking perspective, it's the ability to protect from and withstand attacks on the networking systems as we continue to evolve. This will also also include the ability to adapt and recover from these attacks, which is what cyber resilience aspect is all about. So cybersecurity best practices, as you know, is continuously changing the landscape, primarily because the cyber threats also continue to evolve. >>Yeah, got it. So I like that. So it's gotta be integrated, it's gotta be scalable, it's gotta be comprehensive, comprehensive and adaptable. You're saying it can't be static, >>Right? Right. So I think, you know, you had a second part of a question, you know, that says what do we, you know, what are the basic principles? You know, when you're thinking about securing network infrastructure, when you are looking at securing the network infrastructure, it revolves around core security capability of the devices that form the network. And what are these security capabilities? These are access control, software integrity and vulnerability response. When you look at access control, it's to ensure that only the authenticated users are able to access the platform and they're able to access only the kind of the assets that they're authorized to based on their user level. Now accessing a network platform like a switch or a rotor for example, is typically used for say, configuration and management of the networking switch. So user access is based on say, rules for that metal in a role based access control, whether you are security admin or a network admin or a storage admin. >>And it's imperative that logging is enabled because any of the change to the configuration is actually logged and monitored as well. We talking about software's integrity, it's the ability to ensure that the software that's running on the system has not been compromised. And, and you know, this is important because it could actually, you know, get hold of the system and you know, you could get und desired results in terms of, say validation of the images. It's, it needs to be done through in digital signature. So, so it's important that when you're talking about say, software integrity, A, you are ensuring that the platform is not compromised, you know, is not compromised, and B, that any upgrades, you know, that happens to the platform is happening through validated signature. >>Okay. And now, now you've now, so there's access control, software integrity, and I think you, you've got a third element which is i, I think response, but please continue. >>Yeah, so you know, the third myth about civil notability. So we follow the same process that's been followed by the rest of the products within the Dell product family. That's to report or identify, you know, any kind of a vulnerability that's being addressed by the Dell product security incident response team. So the networking portfolio is no different. You know, it follows the same process for identification for tri and for resolution of these vulnerabilities. And this are addressed either through patches or through new reasons via networking software. >>Yeah, got it. Okay. So I mean, you didn't say zero trust, but when you were talking about access control, you're really talking about access to only those assets that people are authorized to access. I know zero trust sometimes is a buzzword, but, but you I think gave it, you know, some clarity there. Software integrity, it's about assurance validation, your digital signature you mentioned and, and that there's been no compromise. And then how you respond to incidents in a standard way that can fit into a security framework. So outstanding description, thank you for that. But then the next question is, how does Dell networking fit into the construct of what we've been talking about Dell trusted infrastructure? >>Okay, so networking is the key element in the Dell trusted infrastructure. It prides the interconnect between the service and the storage world. And you know, it's part of any data center configuration for a trusted infrastructure. The network needs to have access control in place where only the authorized nels are able to make change to the network configuration and logging of any of those changes is also done through the logging capabilities. Additionally, we should also ensure that the configuration should provide network isolation between say the management network and the data traffic network because they need to be separate and distinct from each other. And furthermore, even if you look at the data traffic network and now you have things like say segmentation isolated segments, I know via vrs or, or some micro segmentation via partners, this allows various level of security for each of those segments. >>So it's important, you know, that, that the network infrastructure has the ability, you know, to provide all this, this services from a Dell networking security perspective, right? You know, there are multiple layers of defense, you know, both at the edge and in the network, in the hardware and in the software and essentially, you know, a set of rules and a configuration that's designed to sort of protect the integrity, confidentiality, and accessibility of the network assets. So each network security layer, it implements policies and controls as I said, you know, including send network segmentation. We do have capabilities sources, centralized management automation and capability and scalability for that matter. Now you add all of these things, you know, with the open networking standards or software, different principles and you essentially, you know, reach to the point where you know, you're looking at zero trust network access, which is essentially sort of a building block for increased cloud adoption. >>If you look at say that you know the different pillars of a zero touch architecture, you know, if you look at the device aspect, you know, we do have support for security for example, we do have say trusted platform in a trusted platform models tpms on certain offer products and you know, the physical security know, plain, simple old one lab port enabled from a user trust perspective, we know it's all done via access control days via role based access control and say capability in order to provide say remote authentication or things like say sticky Mac or Mac learning limit and so on. If you look at say a transport and a session trust layer, these are essentially, you know, how do you access, you know, this switch, you know, is it by plain or telenet or is it like secure ssh, right? And you know, when a host communicates, you know, to the switch, we do have things like self-signed or a certificate authority based certification. >>And one of the important aspect is, you know, in terms of, you know, the routing protocol, the routing protocol, say for example BGP for example, we do have the capability to support MD five authentication between the VGP peers so that there is no, you know, manages attack, you know, to the network where the routing table is compromised. And the other aspect is about second control plane is here in now, you know, it's, it's typical that if you don't have a contra plane here, you know, it could be flooded and you know, you know, the switch could be compromised by city denial service attacks. From an application trust perspective, as I mentioned, you know, we do have, you know, the application specific security rules where you could actually define, you know, the specific security rules based on the specific applications, you know, that are running within the system. >>And I did talk about, say the digital signature and the cryptographic checks and that we do for authentication and for, I mean rather for the authenticity and the validation of, you know, of the image and the BS and so on and so forth. Finally, you know, the data trust, we are looking at, you know, the network separation, you know, the network separation could happen or VRF plain old wheel Ls, you know, which can bring about say multitenancy aspects. We talk about some microsegmentation as it applies to nsx for example. The other aspect is, you know, we do have, with our own smart fabric services that's enabled in a fabric, we have a concept of c cluster security. So all of this, you know, the different pillars, they sort of make up for the zero trust infrastructure for the networking assets of an infrastructure. >>Yeah. So thank you for that. There's a, there's a lot to unpack there. You know, one of the premise, the premise really of this, this, this, this segment that we're setting up in this series is really that everything you just mentioned, or a lot of things you just mentioned used to be the responsibility of the security team. And, and the premise that we're putting forth is that because security teams are so stretched thin, you, you gotta shift a vendor community. Dell specifically is shifting a lot of those tasks to their own r and d and taking care of a lot of that. So, cuz sec op teams got a lot of other stuff to, to worry about. So my question relates to things like automation, which can help and scalability, what about those topics as it relates to networking infrastructure? >>Okay, our portfolio, >>It enables state of the automation software, you know, that enables simplifying of the design. So for example, we do have, you know, you know the fabric design center, you know, a tool that automates the design of the anti fabric and you know, from a deployment and you know, the management of the network infrastructure, there are simplicities, you know, using, you know, like Ansible s for Sonic for example, are, you know, for a better or settle and tell story. You know, we do have smart fabric services that can automate the entire fabric, you know, for a storage solution or for, you know, for one of the workloads for example. Now we do help reduce the complexity by closely integrating the management of the physical and the virtual networking infrastructure. And again, you know, we have those capabilities using Sonic or Smart Traffic services. If you look at Sonic for example, right? >>It delivers automated intent based secure containerized network and it has the ability to provide some network visibility and awareness and, and all of these things are actually valid, you know, for a modern networking infrastructure. So now if you look at Sonic, you know, it's, you know, the usage of those tools, you know, that are available, you know, within the Sonic NAS is not restricted, you know, just to the data center infrastructure is, it's a unified no, you know, that's well applicable beyond the data center. You now right up to the edge. Now if you look at our north from a smart traffic voice 10 perspective, you know, as I mentioned, we do have smart fabric services which essentially, you know, simplifies the deployment day zero. I mean rather day one, day two deployment expansion plans and the life cycle management of our conversion infrastructure and hyper and hyperconverge infrastructure solutions. And finally, in order to enable say, zero touch deployment, we do have, you know, a VP solution with our SD van capability. So these are, you know, ways by which we bring down the complexity by, you know, enhancing the automation capability using, you know, a singular loss that can expand from a data center now right to the edge. >>Great, thank you for that. Last question real quick pitch me, can you summarize from your point of view, what's the strength of the Dell networking portfolio? >>Okay, so from a Dell networking portfolio, we support capabilities at multiple layers. As I mentioned. We've talking about the physical security, for example, let's say disabling of the unused interface. Sticky Mac and trusted platform modules are the things that to go after. And when you're talking about say secure boot for example, it delivers the authenticity and the integrity of the OS 10 images at the startup. And Secure Boot also protects the startup configuration so that, you know, the startup configuration file is not compromised. And Secure port also enables the workload of prediction, for example, that is at another aspect of software image integrity validation, you know, wherein the image is validated for the digital signature in know prior to any upgrade process. And if you are looking at secure access control, we do have things like role-based access control, SSH to the switches, control plane access control that pretty do attacks and say access control from multifactor authentication. >>We do have various tech hacks for entry control to the network and things like CSAC and P IV support, you know, from a federal perspective, we do have, say logging wherein, you know, any event, any auditing capabilities can be possible by say, looking at the clog service, you know, which are pretty much in our transmitter from the devices overts for example, and last we talked about say networks, you know, say network separation and you know, these, you know, separation, you know, ensures that that is, you know, a contained say segment, you know, for a specific purpose or for the specific zone. And you know, this can be implemented by a, the micro segmentation, you know, just a plain old wheel are using virtual route of framework vr, for example. >>A lot there. I mean, I think, frankly, you know, my takeaway is you guys do the heavy lifting in a very complicated topic. So thank you so much for, for coming on the cube and explaining that in, in quite some depth. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you indeed. >>Oh, you're very welcome. Okay, in a moment I'll be back to dig into the hyper-converged infrastructure part of the portfolio and look at how when you enter the world of software defined where you're controlling servers and storage and networks via software led system, you can be sure that your infrastructure is trusted and secure. You're watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure made possible by Dell Technologies and collaboration with the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The pandemic precipitated what is shaping up to be a permanent shift in cybersecurity spending patterns. As a direct result of hybrid work, CSOs have vested heavily in endpoint security, identity access management, cloud security, and further hardening the network beyond the headquarters. We've reported on this extensively in this Breaking Analysis series. Moreover, the need to build security into applications from the start rather than bolting protection on as an afterthought has led to vastly high heightened awareness around DevSecOps. Finally, attacking security as a data problem with automation and AI is fueling new innovations in cyber products and services and startups. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we present our quarterly findings in the security industry, and share the latest ETR survey data on the spending momentum and market movers. Let's start with the most recent news in cybersecurity. Nary a week goes by without more concerning news. The latest focus in the headlines is, of course, Russia's relentless cyber attacks on critical infrastructure in the Ukraine, including banking, government websites, weaponizing information. The hacker group, BlackByte, put a double whammy on the San Francisco 49ers, meaning they exfiltrated data and they encrypted the organization's files as part of its ransomware attack. Then there's the best Super Bowl ad last Sunday, the Coinbase floating QR code. Did you catch that? As people rushed to scan the code and participate in the Coinbase Bitcoin giveaway, it highlights yet another exposure, meaning we're always told not to click on links that we don't trust or we've never seen, but so many people activated this random QR code on their smartphones that it crashed Coinbase's website. What does that tell you? In other news, Securonix raised a billion dollars. They did this raise on top of Lacework's massive $1.3 billion raise last November. Both of these companies are attacking security with data automation and APIs that can engage machine intelligence. Securonix, specifically in the announcement, mentioned the uptake from MSSPs, managed security service providers, something we've talked about in this series. And that's a trend that we see as increasingly gaining traction as customers are just drawing in and drowning in security incidents. Peter McKay's company, Snyk, acquired Fugue, a company focused on making sure security policies are consistent throughout the software development life cycle. It's a really an example of a developer-defined security approach where policy can be checked at the dev, deployment, and production phases to ensure the same policies are in place at all stages, including monitoring at runtime. Fugue, according to Crunchbase, had raised $85 million to date. In some other company news, Cisco was rumored to be acquiring Splunk for not much more than Splunk is worth today. And the talks reportedly broke down. This would be a major move in security by Cisco and underscores the pressure to consolidate. Cisco would get an extremely strong customer base and through efficiencies could improve Splunk's profitability, but it seems like the premium Cisco was willing to pay was not enough to entice board to act. Splunk board, that is. Datadog blew away its earnings, and the stock was up 12%. It's pulled back now, thanks to Putin, but it's one of those companies that is disrupting Splunk. Datadog is less than half the size of Splunk, revenue-wise, but its valuation is more than 2 1/2 times greater. Finally, Elastic, another Splunk disruptor, settled its trademark dispute with AWS, and now AWS will now stop using the name Elasticsearch. All right, let's take a high level look at how cyber companies have performed in the stock market over time. Here's a graph of the Cyber ETF, and you can see the March 1st crosshairs of 2020 signifying the start of the lockdown. The trajectory of cybersecurity stocks is shown by the orange and blue lines, and it surely has steepened post March of 2020. And, of course, it's been down with the market lately, but the run up, as you can see, was substantial and eclipsed the trajectory of the previous cycles over the last couple of years, owing much of the momentum to the spending dynamics that we talked about at our open. Let's now drill into some of the names that we've been following over the last few years and take a look at the firm level. This chart shows some data that we've been tracking since before the pandemic. The top rows show the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ prices, and the bottom rows show specific stocks. The first column is the index price or the market cap of the company just before the pandemic, then the same data one year later. Then the next column shows the peak value during the pandemic, and then the current value. Then it shows in the next column where it is today, in percentage terms, i.e., how far has it pulled back from the peak, then the delta from pre-pandemic, in other words, how much did the issue earn or lose during the pandemic for investors? We then compare the pre-pandemic revenue multiple using a trailing 12-month revenue metric. Sorry, that's what we used. It's easy to get. (laughs) And that's the revenue multiple compared to the August in 2020, when multiples were really high, and where they are today, and then a recent quarterly growth rate guide based on the last earnings report. That's the last column. Okay, so I'm throwing a lot of data at you here, but what does it tell us? First, the S&P and the NAS are well up from pre-pandemic levels, yet they're off 9% and 15%, respectively, from their peaks today. That was earlier on Friday morning. Now let's look at the names more closely. Splunk has been struggling. It definitely had a tailwind from the pandemic as all boats seem to rise, but its execution has been lacking. It's now 30% off from its pre-pandemic levels. (groans) And it's multiple is compressing, and perhaps Cisco thought it could pick up the company for a discount. Now let's talk about Palo Alto Networks. We had reported on some of the challenges the company faced moving into a cloud-friendly model. that was before the pandemic. And we talked about the divergence between Palo Alto's stock price and the valuations relative to Fortinet, and we said at the time, we fully expected Palo Alto to rebound, and that's exactly what happened. It rode the tailwinds of the last two years. It's up over 100% from its pre-COVID levels, and its revenue multiple is expanding, owing to the nice growth rates. Now Fortinet had been doing well coming into the pandemic. In fact, we said it was executing on a cloud strategy better than Palo Alto Networks, hence that divergence in valuations at the time. So it didn't get as much of a boost from the pandemic. Didn't get that momentum at first, but the company's been executing very well. And as you can see, with 155% increase in valuation since just before the pandemic, it's going more than okay for Fortinet. Now, Okta is a name that we've really followed closely, the identity access management specialist that rocketed. But since it's Auth0 acquisition, it's pulled back. Investors are concerned about its guidance and its profitability. And several analyst have downgraded their price targets on Okta. We still really like the company. The Auth0 acquisition gives Okta a developer vector, and we think the company is going hard after market presence and is willing to sacrifice short-term profitability. We actually like that posture. It's very Frank Slupin-like. This company spends a lot of money on R&D and go-to-market. The question is, does Okta have inherent profitability? The company, as they say, spends a ton in some really key areas but it looks to us like it's going to establish a footprint. It's guiding revenue CAGR in the mid-30s over the mid to long-term and near term should beat that benchmark handily. But you can see the red highlights on Okta. And even though Okta is up 59% from its pre-pandemic levels, it's far behind its peers shown in the chart, especially CrowdStrike and Zscaler, the latter being somewhat less impacted by the pullback in stocks recently, of course, due to the fears of inflation and interest rates, and, of course, Russian invasion escalation. But these high flyers, they were bound to pull back. The question is can they maintain their category leadership? And for the most part, we think they can. All right, let's get into some of the ETR data. Here's our favorite XY view with net score, or spending momentum on the Y-axis, and market share or pervasiveness in the data center on the horizontal axis. That red 40% line, that indicates a highly elevated spending level. And the chart inserts to the right, that shows how the data is plotted with net score and shared N in each of the columns by each company. Okay, so this is an eye chart, but there really are three main takeaways. One is that it's a crowded market. And this shows only the companies ETR captures in its survey. We filtered on those that had more than 50 mentions. So there's others in the ETR survey that we're not showing here, and there are many more out there which don't get reported in the spending data in the ETR survey. Secondly, there are a lot of companies above the 40% mark, and plenty with respectable net scores just below. Third, check out SentinelOne, Elastic, Tanium, Datadog, Netskope, and Darktrace. Each has under 100 N's but we're watching these companies closely. They're popping up in the survey, and they're catching our attention, especially SentinelOne, post-IPO. So we wanted to pare this back a bit and filter the data some more. So let's look at companies with more than 100 mentions in the same chart. It gets a little cleaner this picture, but it's still crowded. Auth0 leads everyone in net score. Okta is also up there, so that's very positive sign since they had just acquired Auth0. CrowdStrike SalePoint, Cyberark, CloudFlare, and Zscaler are all right up there as well. And then there's the bigger security companies. Palo Alto Network, very impressive because it's well above the 40% mark, and it has a big presence in the survey, and, of course, in the market. And Microsoft as well. They're such a big whale. They skew the data for everybody else to kind of mess up these charts. And the position of Cisco and Splunk make for an interesting combination. They get both decent net scores, not above the 40% line but they got a good presence in the survey as well. Thinking about the acquisition, Al Shugart was the CEO of of Seagate, and founder. Brilliant Silicon valley icon and engineer. Great business person. I was asking him one time, hey, you thinking about buying this company or that company? And of course, he's not going to tell me who he's thinking about buying or acquiring. He said, let me just tell you this. If you want to know what I'm thinking, ask yourself if it were free, would you take it? And he said the answer's not always obviously yes, because acquisitions can be messy and disruptive. In the case of Cisco and Splunk, I think the answer would be a definitive yes It would expand Cisco's portfolio and make it the leader in security, with an opportunity to bring greater operating leverage to Splunk. Cisco's just got to pay more if it wants that asset. It's got to pay more than the supposed $20 billion offer that it made. It's going to have to get kind of probably north of 23 billion. I pinged my ETR colleague, Erik Bradley, on this, and he generally agreed. He's very close to the security space. He said, Splunk isn't growing the customer base but the customers are sticky. I totally agree. Cisco could roll Splunk into its security suite. Splunk is the leader in that space, security information and event management, and Cisco really is missing that piece of the pie. All right, let's filter the data even more and look at some of the companies that have moved in the survey over the past year and a half. We'll go back here to July 2020. Same two-dimensional chart. And we're isolating here Auth0, Okta, SalePoint CrowdStrike, Zscaler, Cyberark, Fortinet, and Cisco. No Microsoft. That cleans up the chart. Okay, why these firms? Because they've made some major moves to the right, and some even up since last July. And that's what this next chart shows. Here's the data from the January 2022 survey. The arrow start points show the position that we just showed you earlier in July 2020, and all these players have made major moves to the right. How come? Well, it's likely a combination of strong execution, and the fact that security is on the radar of every CEO, CIO, of course, CSOs, business heads, boards of directors. Everyone is thinking about security. The market momentum is there, especially for the leaders. And it's quite tremendous. All right, let's now look at what's become a bit of a tradition with Breaking Analysis, and look at the firms that have earned four stars. Four-star firms are leaders in the ETR survey that demonstrate both a large presence, that's that X-axis that we showed you, and elevated spending momentum. Now in this chart, we filter the N's. Has to be greater than 100. And we isolate on those companies. So more than 100 responses in the survey. On the left-hand side of the chart, we sort by net score or spending velocity. On the right-hand side, we sort by shared N's or presence in the dataset. We show the top 20 for each of the categories. And the red line shows the top 10 cutoffs. Companies that show up in the top 10 for both spending momentum and presence in the data set earn four stars. If they show up in one, and make the top 10 in one, and make the top 20 in the other, they get two stars. And we've added a one-star category as honorable mention for those companies that make the top 20 in both categories. Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, CrowdStrike, and Okta make the four-star grade. Okta makes it even without Auth0, which has the number one net score in this data set with 115 shared N to boot. So you can add that to Okta. The weighted average would pull Okta's net score to just above Cyberark's into fourth place. And its shared N would bump Okta up to third place on the right-hand side of the chart Cisco, Splunk, Proofpoint, KnowBe4, Zscaler, and Cyberark get two stars. And then you can see the honorable mentions with one star. Now thinking about a Cisco, Splunk combination. You'd get an entity with a net score in the mid-20s. Yeah, not too bad, definitely respectable. But they'd be number one on the right-hand side of this chart, with the largest market presence in the survey by far. Okay, let's wrap. The trends around hybrid work, cloud migration and the attacker escalation that continue to drive cybersecurity momentum and they're going to do so indefinitely. And we've got some bullet points here that you're seeing private companies, (laughs) they're picking up gobs of money, which really speaks to the fact that there's no silver bullet in this market. It's complex, chaotic, and cash-rich. This idea of MSSPs on the rise is going to continue, we think. About half the mid-size and large organization in the US don't have a SecOps, a security operation center, and outsourcing to one that can be tapped on a consumption basis, cloud-like, as a service just makes sense to us. We see the momentum that companies that we've highlighted over the many quarters of Breaking Analysis are forming. They're forming a strong base in the market. They're going for market share and footprint, and they're focusing on growth, at bringing in new talent. They have good balance sheets and strong management teams and we think they'll be leading companies in the future, Zscaler, CrowdStrike, Okta, SentinelOne, Cyberark, SalePoint, over time, joining the ranks of billion dollar cyber firms, when I say billion dollar, billion dollar revenue like Palo Alto Networks, Fortinet, and Splunk, if it doesn't get acquired. These independent firms that really focus on security. Which underscores the pressure and consolidation and M&A in the whole space. It's almost assured with the fragmentation of companies and so many new entrants fighting for escape velocity that this market is going to continue with robust M&A and consolidation. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to my colleague, Stephanie Chan, who helped research this week's topics, and Alex Myerson on the production team. He also manages the Breaking Analysis podcast. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, who get the word out. Thank you to all. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. Check out ETR's website at etr.ai. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. @dvellante is my DM. Comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week. Be safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of VeeamON 2020. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Hi everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online 2020. And Danny Allen is here, he's the CTO and Senior Vice President of Product Strategy and he's joined by Anton Gostev, who's the Senior Vice President of Product Management. Gentlemen, good to see you again. Wish we were face-to-face, but thanks for coming on, virtually. >> Thanks Dave for having us. >> Always love being on with you. Thank you. >> So Danny, I want to start with you. In your keynote, you talked to, about great quote by Satya Nadella. He said "We basically compress two years of digital transformation in two months." And so, I'm interested in what that meant for Veeam but also specifically, for your customers and how you help. >> Yeah, I think about that in two different ways. So digital transformation is obviously the word that he used. But I think of this a lot about being remote. So in two months, every organization that we're ourselves included, has gone from, in person operations going into the office doing things to enabling remote operations. And so, I'm working from home today, Anton's working from home today. We're all working from home today. And so remote operations is a big part of that. And it's not just working from home, it's how do I actually conduct my operations, my backup, my archiving, my hearing, all of those things remotely. It's actually changed the way organizations think about their data management. Not just operations from the sense of internal processes, but also external processes as well. But I think about this as remote offering. So organizations say, "How can I take where we are today "in the world and turn this into competitive advantage? "How can I take the services that I offered today, "and help my customers be more successful remotely?" And so, it has those two aspects to it remote operations, remote offerings. And of course, all driven by data which we backed. >> So Anton, you know there's a saying "It's better to be lucky than good." And I say, "It's best to be lucky and good." So Danny was talking about some of the external processes, a lot of those processes were unknown. And people kind of making them up as they went along, with things that we've never seen before. So, I wonder if we could talk about your product suite, and how well you were able to adapt to some of these unknown. >> Well it's more customers using our product in creative ways. But, one feedback we got most recently in our annual user survey is that like, one of the customers was using tape as the off-site backups. And they had a process where obviously someone had to physically come to the office, pick up the exporter tapes and put them on the truck and move them some off-site location. And so this basically, the process was completely broken with COVID because of lockdown. And in that particular country, it was a stricter on the ground than in most and they were physically unable to basically leave the home. So they basically looked at, Luckily they upgraded already to version 10. And they looked at what version 10 has to offer. And then we're able to switch from using tape to fully automating this off-site backup and going directly to the public cloud to object storage. So, they still have the same off-site backups that, effectively air-gapped because of the first house you provide in virtual time for mutable backups. As soon as they created that they automatically ship to object storage, completely replacing this manual off-site process. So I don't know how long it will take them, if not COVID, to move to this process. Now they love it because it's so much better than what they did before. That's amazing. >> Yeah I bet, there's no doubt. That's interesting, that's an interesting use case. Do you see, others use cases that popped up. Again, I was saying that these processes were new. I mean, and I'm interested in from a product standpoint, how you guys were able to adapt to that. >> Well, another use case that seems to be on the rise is that the ability for customers to deploy the new machines to procure new hardware is severely limited now. Not only their supply chain issues, but also again, bring something into your data center. You have to physically be there and collaborate with other workers and doing installing the, whatever new hardware you purchase. So, we see a significant pick up of the functionality where that, we had in the product for a while, which we called direct resorts to cloud. So we support taking any backup, physical virtual machine. And restoring directory into cloud machine. So we see really the big uptick of migration, maybe a lot of migrations, maybe, not necessarily permanent migrations, but when people want to basically this, some of the applications start to struggle on their sources and they're unable to update the underlying hardware. So what they do is that they schedule the downtime, and then migrate, restore that latest backup into the cloud and continue using the machine in the cloud on much more powerful hardware. That's a lifesaver for them obviously in this situation. >> Yeah so the cloud, Danny is becoming a linchpin of these new models. In your keynote you talked about your vision. And it's interesting to note, I mean, VeeamON, last year, you actually talked about, what I call getting back to the basic of, backup, you kind of embrace backup, where a lot of the new entrants are like, "No no backup's, just one small part, it's data management." And, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. But the vision you laid out was, backup and cloud data management. Maybe you could, unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, the way I think about this is step one, in every infrastructure, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about on-prem or in the cloud. Step one is, to protect your data. So this is ingesting the data, whether be backup, whether it be replication, whether it be, long term retention. We have to do that, not only do we have to do that, but as you go to new cycles of infrastructure, it happens all over again. So, we backed up physical first and then virtual, and then we did, cloud and in some ways, containers we're going towards, we're not going backwards but people who are running containers on-prem so we always go back to the starting point of protect the data. And then of course, after you protect it then you, want to effectively begin to manage it. And that's exactly what Anton said. How do you automate the operational procedures to be able to make this part of the DNA of the organization and so, it doesn't matter whether it's on-prem or whether it's in the cloud, that protection of data and then the effective management and integration with existing processes, is fundamental for every infrastructure and will continue to be so into the future, including the cloud. And it's only then when you have this effective protection and management of it, can you begin to unleash the power of data, as you look out into the future, because you can reuse the data for additional purposes, you can move it to the optimal location, but we always start with protection and management of the data. >> So Anton, I want to come back to you on this notion of cloud being a portion of that, when you talk about security people say you layer, how should we think about the cloud? Is it a another layer of protection? And then Danny just said, "It doesn't really matter whether it's on-prem "or in the cloud, it well, it doesn't matter "if you can ensure the same experience." If it's a totally different experience well then it's problematic though. I wonder if you could address, both the layers. Is cloud just another layer and is the management of that, actually, how do you make it, quote, unquote, "Seamless"? I know it's an overused word, but from a product name? >> Well, for larger customers, it's not necessarily a new challenge, because it's rare when the customer had a single data center. And they had this challenge for always. How do I manage my multiple data centers with a single pane of glass? And, I will say public cloud does not necessarily mean that some new perspective in that sense. Yeah, maybe it even makes it easier because you no longer have to manage the physical aspect, the most important aspect of security, which is physical security. So someone else manages it for you and probably much better than most companies could ever afford. In terms of security answer, so then data center. But as far as networking security and how those multiple data centers interact with each other, that's essentially not a new challenge. It is a new challenge for smaller customers for SMBs that are just starting. So they have their own small data center, small world and now they are starting to move some workloads into the cloud. And I would say the biggest problem there is networking and VeeamON, sure provides some free tools to call Veeam PN to make it easier for them to make this step of, securing the networking aspect of public cloud and the private property also that they are in now as workloads move to the cloud, but also keeping some workloads on-prem. >> The other piece of cloud Danny, is SaaS. You weren't the first you were one of the first to offer SaaS back up particularly for Office 365. And a lot of people just, I think, rely on the SaaS vendor, "Hey, they've got me covered. "They've got me backed up", and maybe they do have them backed up, but they might not have them recovered. How is that market shaping up? What are the trends that you're seeing there? >> Well, you're absolutely right Dave. That the, focus here is not just on back up, but on recovery, and it's one of the things that Veeam is known for we don't just do the backup, but we have an Explorer for Exchange , an Explorer for SharePoint, an Explorer for OneDrive. You saw on stage today we demoed the Explorer for Microsoft Teams. So, it's not just about protecting the data, but getting back the specific element of data that you need for operations. And that is critically important. And our customers expect to need that. If you're depending on the SaaS vendor themselves to do that, and I won't, be derogatory or specific about any SaaS vendor, but what they'll often do is, take the entire data set from seven days ago, we'll say, and merge it back into the current data set. And that just results in, a complete chaos of your inbox, if that's what they're merging together. So having specific granularity to pull back that data, exactly the data you need when you need it, is critical. And that's why we're adding it, and the focus on Microsoft Teams now obviously, is because, as we have more intellectual property, in collaboration tools for remote operations, exactly what we're doing now, that only becomes more critical for the business. So, when you think about SaaS for backup, but we also think about it for recovery. And one thing that I'll credit Anton and the product management team for, we build all of this in-house, We don't give this to a third party to build it on our behalf because you need it to work and not only need it to work, but need it to work well, that completely integrated with the underlying cloud data management platform. >> So Anton, I wonder if I could ask you about that. So, from a recovery standpoint, there's one thing, is Dan was saying, you've got to have the granularity, you've got to be able to have a really relatively simple way to recover. But because it's the cloud, there's, latency involved and how are you from a product standpoint, dealing with, making that recovery as consistent and predictable and reliable as you have for a decade on-prem. >> So you mean recovery in the cloud or back to on-prem? >> Yeah, so, recovery from data that lives in the cloud. >> Okay. So basically, the most important feature of any cloud is the price of whatever you do. So, whenever we design anything, we always look at the costs even more than anything else. But, it in turn always translates into better performance as well. To give you example, without functionality where we can take the on-prem backup and make a copy in the public object storage for disaster recovery purposes, so that for example, when a hacker or ransomware wipes out your, entire data center, you have those backups in the cloud, and you can restore from them. So when you perform the restore from cloud backups, we are actually smart enough to understand that, we need to pull that and this in that block from the cloud backup, but many of those blocks actually shared with backups in another machines that are in your own prem backup repository. So we do this on the fly analysis, and we say, instead of pulling the 10 terabyte of the entire backup from the cloud, we can actually pull only 100 gigabytes off unique blocks. And the rest of the blocks we can take from on-prem repositories that have still survived the disaster. So, not only reduces the cost 20 times or whatever. The performance, obviously, of restoring from on-prem data versus pulling everything from the cloud through the internet links is dramatic. So again, we started from the cost, how do we reduce the cost of restore, because, that's where cloud vendors quote, unquote, "Get you." But in the end, it resulted in much better performance as well. >> Excellent, Anton as well in your keynote, you talked about the Veeam availability suite, gave a little sneak preview. You talked about continuous data protection. Cloud Tier, NAS recovery, which is oftentimes very challenging. What should we take away from that sneak peek? >> Three main directions basically, The first is Veeam CGP is we keep investing a lot in on-prem, data Protection, disaster recovery. VMware is a clear leader of on-prem virtualization. So, we keep building these, new ways to protect your web VMware with lower RPOs and RTOs that were never possible before with the classic snapshotting technologies. So that's one thing we keep investing on-prem. Second thing, we do major investments in the cloud in object storage specifically, from that regards, again, put a couple keynote in Google Cloud support. And we're adding the ability to work with coldest tier of object storage, which is Amazon Glacier Deep Archive or Microsoft Azure Blob Storage, archive tier. So that's the second big area of investment. And third, instant recovery Veaam has always been extremely well known for its instant recovery capabilities. And this race is going to be the biggest in terms of new instant recovery capabilities, that were introduced as many as three new major companies with capabilities there. (mumbles) >> So, Danny, I wonder if I could ask you. I'm interested in how you go from product strategy to actual product management and bring things to market. I mean, in the early days, Veeam. Very, very specific to virtualization. That of course, with the Bare-metal, you got a number of permutations and product capabilities. How do you guys work together in terms of assessing the market potential, the degree of difficulty, prioritizing, how does that all come to your customer value? >> Well, first of all, Anton and I, spend a lot of time together on the phone and collaborating just on a weekly basis about where we're going, what we're going to do. I always say there's four directions that we look at for the product strategy and what we're building. You look behind you, you have a, we have 375,000 customers and so those are the tail winds that are pushing you forward. We talked to them on all segments. What is it that you want? I say we look left and right, the left who are alliances. We have a rich ecosystem of partners and channel that we look to collect feedback from. Look right, we look out at the competitors in this space, what are they doing to make sure that we're not missing anything that we should be including and then look forward. Big focus of Veeam has always been not just creating check boxes and making sure that we have the required features but innovation. And you saw that on stage today when Anton was showing the NAS Instant Recovery in the database instant recovery and the capabilities that we have, we have a big focus on, not just checking a box but actually doing things better and differently than everyone else in the industry and that serve to see incredibly well. >> So I love that framework. But so now when you think about this pandemic, you look behind your customers have obviously been affected, your partners have been affected. Let's put your competitors to the side for a minute, we'll see how they respond. But then looking forward, future, as I've said many times, we're not just going back to 2019. We're new decade and really digital transformation is becoming real, for real this time around. So as you think about the pandemic and looking at those four dimensions, what initial conclusions are you drawing? >> Well, the first one would be that that Veeam is well positioned to win, continue to win and to win into the future. And the reason for that I would argue, is that we're software defined. Our whole model is based on being simple to use obviously, but software defined and because of the pandemic, as Anton said, can't go into the office anymore to switch your tapes from one system to another. And so being software defined set this apart positions as well for the future. And so make it simple, make it flexible. And ultimately, what our customers care about is the reliability of this end to the credit of research and development and Anton theme is, "We have product that as everyone says, it just worked". >> So Anton I wonder if I could ask you kind of a similar question. How has the pandemic affected your thinking along those dimensions and maybe some of your initial thinking on changes that you'll implement? >> Yes, sorry I wanted to add exactly on that. I will say that pandemic accelerated our vision becoming the reality. Basically, the vision we had and, I said a few years ago, one day that Veeam will become the biggest storage vendor without selling a single storage box. And this is just becoming the reality. We support a number of object storage providers today. Only a few of them actually track the consumption that is generated by different vendors. And just for those few who do track that and report numbers to us. We are already managing over hundreds of petabytes of data in the cloud. And we only just started a couple of years ago with object storage support. So that's the power of software defined. we don't need to sell you any storage to be eventually the biggest storage player on the market. And pandemic is clear accelerated that in the last three months we see the adoption, it was already like a hockey stick, but it's accelerating further. Because of the issues customers are facing today. Unable to actually physically go back to the office, do this backup handling the way they normally do it. >> Well guys, it's been really fun the last decade watching the ascendancy of Veeam, we've boarded on it and talked about it a lot. And as you guys have both said things have been accelerated. It's actually very exciting to see a company with, rich legacy, but also, very competitive with some of the new products and new companies that are hitting the market. So, congratulations, I know you've got a lot more to do here. You guys have been, for a private company, pretty transparent, more transparent than most and I have to say as an analyst, we appreciate that and, appreciate the partnership with theCUBE. So thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. Always a pleasure. >> Thanks Dave. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE in our coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online. Keep it right there, I'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> From The Cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a Cube Conversation. >> The isolation economy has created substantial momentum for certain cybersecurity companies, notably, as of the big stock market sell off on June 11th, relative to our last cyber report, which we did in February, the S and P 500, and the NASDAQ are off 11% and 3% respectively. But the valuations of three companies that we cited as four-star firms in our February cyber report are up significantly. In particular, Okta's valuation is up 34% since our last look in February. CrowdStrike, almost 50%, and Zscaler over 60%. Yet several other companies that were named as four-star players have really either tracked the S and P or even performed more poorly, despite still showing decent strength and spending momentum based on survey data from ETR. Welcome, everybody, to this week's Wickibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. My name is Dave Vellante and in this breaking analysis, we want to update you on our cybersecurity outlook and try to answer several questions, such as what has changed in the cybersecurity landscape. since our last report. Much has, as you know, Has the isolation economy created a permanent shift in security spend, or are these upticks just anomalies? What can we learn from the ETR spending data, and is the divergence and valuations amongst security leaders justified? Let's start by taking a look at what has changed since our last cyber report. Now, we produce this just ahead of the RSA conference in February, and one of the last physical conferences. So there's some big changes going on in the market. We really want to understand, are they systematic? In other words, are there fundamental changes to the system and its underlying principles, and by many accounts, the answer appears to be yes. Recently I listened in to a number of CSOs. of it was a call with ETR's Eric Bradley. And we heard the executives echo some of the themes that we've been discussing previously. It was notion of the work-from-home pivot, creating a focus on things like zero trust networks, changes in identity and access management, and way more focus on cloud, and of course, as a service, really reducing reliance on traditional firewalls and appliances that would reside in organizations' data centers. You know, we've gone from a world where digital transformation was an important strategic initiative to one where if you weren't digital, you largely couldn't transact business. Now, people are, the question they have is that is the longterm viability of VPNs makes sense? And even things like SD-WAN are being called into question, as corporate offices are empty and the internet is becoming the new private network. Now, one thing that hasn't changed is there are still a lot of technologies in this space. And that seems to be continuing as buyers need solutions to problems quickly to plug holes, and on balance IT budgets, they are contracting, so most companies still have to justify security spending based on the amount of risk reduction versus the cost. Of course, it's easier to justify for securing remote workers. So what I want to do now is take a pause and let's look back at some of the ETR data that we shared back in February. Now remember, this data is from the January ETR survey, ETR surveys organizations once every quarter. And if you recall, we keyed on two key metrics, some of our favorite metrics. Net Score, which is a measure of spending momentum, and Market Share, which measures pervasive per, sorry, pervasiveness in the dataset. Now, as you might recall, the left most chart here shows the cyber players and we sorted them by Net Score. The right hand side, that sorts those companies on Shared N, which measures the number of mentions of that company within the cybersecurity sector. Now, at the time, we named several four-star companies, actually we started this last year when we initiated coverage in the security space. These four-star security firms, really based on their rankings within both of those metrics, Net Score and Shared N. So you could see the four stars, Microsoft, Splunk, Palo Alto Networks, Proofpoint, Okta, CrowdStrike, and we added Zscaler as new, and then CyberArk. And we gave Cisco and Fortinet two stars, as they were kind of on the cusp. Now let's look at some of these companies from the April survey that ETR did. So this chart shows a subset of the vendors that we showed before. Now remember, this survey was taken at the height of the lockdown, from kind of early part of March to the early part of April. Budgets were under immense pressure. Nonetheless, look at Microsoft, Cisco, Palo Alto, Fortinet, and Zscaler all held up pretty evenly. CrowdStrike also held steadily and maintain a very high level. Okta dipped somewhat, but from a pretty high level as well. Only Proofpoint is one of the ones that showed decline notably from 48% to a 40% Net Score relative to the chart I showed earlier. Now, SailPoint didn't make the four-star cut because it doesn't have the presence in the dataset, but it's Net Score is solid, and the Shared N jumped from 66 last survey to 88 in the latest checkpoint. So this identity and access management player, it seems to be one to watch. We'll come back to that in future episodes. Now let's plot some of these players in context, you know, using this two-dimensional axis that we often show. This chart shows that that view that we like to share. It plots Net Score, or spending velocity, on the Y axis, and then market share on the X axis. Remember, our market share is calculated by dividing the number of mentions for a company by the total number of mentions within that sector. So it's not like true IDC market share, it's market share within the survey. So you can see here a continued theme of Microsoft momentum, very high Net Score, or high Net Score and big presence. We plotted IBM and Dell EMC, which is really the legacy RSA business, just for context. And these are two companies with strong security brands, but as you can see, they're really not the giants that they used to be in cybersecurity software. So a couple of points on this graphic. CrowdStrike really jumps out as the momentum play on this chart. And that's really no surprise given its focus on endpoint security and the pivot to work-from-home. Okta has a focus on cloud-based identity management and they continue to show very strong. And CyberArk, with a focus on privileged access is also very important in this remote worker environment. We'll talk about that some more later. And you can see Zscaler, quite strong and steady from the last survey, but that company saw some of the biggest action in the stock market, which we're going to try to explain in a moment. Proofpoint, we talked about a deceleration in Net Score, but they're right in the mix as is Fortinet. Now finally, Palo Alto, you know, they remain strong. And Cisco, like many of its businesses, very credible with a Net Score that's decent and a large market presence as always. Now, as we've reported, security is one of the brightest spots in that Cisco portfolio. So the big takeaway from the ETR data is that despite the pandemic, cybersecurity software has held up very well from a spending standpoint. But now let's look a little bit deeper into what's happening in the stock market with these firms. And first as we know, there's a clear disconnect between what's happening in financial markets and the fundamentals of the economy. You know, Wall Street versus Main Street is kind of that narrative. And within the security sector, there's also a dissonance between companies, and we want to discuss that next. Here's an updated chart that we showed in February from our last cybersecurity episode. It compares the performance of the S and P 500 and the NASDAQ as of February 19th, with the performance of four-star cyber players from that date to Thursday, June 11th, the day that saw an 1800 point drop in the Dow. So some of the steam has been let out of the market, but the story really isn't going to change that much. First, the S and P is off 11% since that time, but the NAS is only off of 3%, tech heavy. But look at the deltas of our four-star companies. Let me start with Splunk. I didn't show Splunk earlier on the charts, but the value metrics of Splunk, they really haven't moved much since our February report. Splunk's Net Score was down somewhat in the sector, but remember, Splunk does more than just security. It's really becoming a critical big data player in analytics. I think people maybe don't like the tepid 2% revenue growth that Splunk showed, but remember Splunk is transitioning to an ARR model, an annual recurring revenue model, and that's going to take some time. It acquired SignalFx late last year to give it a stronger SaaS play in monitoring, and of course the analytics. I like Splunk, just like Adobe and Tableau had to make a similar transition, and ultimately they powered through it because they're great companies with really loyal customers, and I think that really does apply to Splunk. Let's take a look now at Palo Alto Networks and Fortinet. Now, you might remember in our last security update, we spent a fair amount of time explaining the valuation divergence between Palo Alto and Fortinet due to some of the cloud challenges that Palo Alto was facing, even some of the sales motions. So we said Fortinet at the time had done a better job transitioning to a cloud, but Palo Alto really had a good quarter. It beat earnings revenue, and it gave guidance, and the stock moved up very nicely. But then it ran into resistance, and you can see it's a tracking about what the S and P 500 over this period of time. And you can see the revenue multiples show the valuations divergence between those two companies. It's even more stark. So you've got Fortinet's kind of holding firm, and Palo Alto, dipping a little bit. Now, let me make some comments here. I mean, I like Palo Alto Networks. Not only are they solid in the ETR dataset, despite the COVID pandemic, but anecdotal evidence in discussions with IT leaders suggests that organizations want to do business with Palo Alto. They're really considered a thought leader in the space. And I personally, I think they're going to do very well this decade. So now maybe there's some technical aspects going on with the stock. I'm not really qualified to address that. But they clearly saw some resistance despite bouncing on the strong quarter. Just couldn't hold. Now, let me skip over the green box, and I want to quickly comment on the last two here. I'm going to start with CyberArk. They are underperforming, this group, even though you would think with the focus on privileged access security, they'd do well in this environment. And they beat last quarter, but they suspended guidance, and they cited exposure to some hard hit industries on their earnings call. And as well, it just is interesting, the company is aggressively hiring. And so that increased op ex substantially. The thing in management is confidence, you know, what do they know that the street doesn't know? And they're just being cautious, you know, but they are taking a valuation hit as a result. We'll see how that plays out. Now, Proofpoint has also taken a valuation hit in our period of analysis back from February to now, despite beating estimates last quarter. You know, maybe not as strong as a work-from-home play, but again, a beat in this environment is definitely a positive. Now I want to come back to the three key companies highlighted in the green, Okta, CrowdStrike and Zscaler. Zscaler, remember, we added new in February to our four-star list, which we initiated last year. The valuation of these three companies has soared since the pandemic, and they've reported tailwinds as a result of the new reality. Okta with its identity management focus, CrowdStrike with endpoint, and Zscaler with its security cloud, are all seeing momentum. And it makes sense that these three are very focused and they're aligned with our remote worker economy, and of course, a shift to the cloud. As well, they all beat earnings and management had a pretty sanguine outlook going forward. But I want to call your attention to the revenue multiples of these three companies and take a look and compare them to their peers. You know, are these justified? Well, as I said before, there's really a difference between the stock market and what's happening in the real world today. So I would say, you know, I want to see these companies continue to outperform their estimates, and their strong guidance. And frankly, at these revenue multiples, I'd expect, you know, even higher growth rates of, especially from Okta and Zscaler. So we'll see. The point is, the market's exuberance, it's really based on future expectations. And I do think there was a bit of, you know, FOMO, fear of missing out, at play here with investors hopping on the bandwagon. Remember, look, the data from ETR shows that these companies are pretty strong, and of course, much of the stock action is based on performance relative to earnings estimates. So we'll see if this can continue. I mean, to me, it does feel a little frothy even after that recent sell off. All right, let's wrap up. So the disconnect between financial markets and the real world economy, it creates uncertainty in the market. So you got to be cautious, really, if, especially if you're chasing momentum. I just want to say, I know a lot of young investors who reach out to me and they comment to me in these segments. And look, I'm not qualified to tell you where to invest. I just report on the fundamentals and I try to tie in financial trends, and market trends, of course, But you got to do your own research, you know, be patient, do your dollar cost averaging thing. You got a long life to live. Now, the after COVID AC economy and the remote work-from-home momentum will not be a rising tide that's going to lift all ships in this segment. But there's no doubt that CSOs are rethinking cyber. We've said for years that protecting the perimeter was going to change as the main focus. And it has to a degree. But I'll tell ya, I think the mindset has changed more in the last 90 days than in the previous three years. The scourge of VPNs, and even the efficacy of SD-WAN are being called into question as security technologies that exploit the internet and cloud appear to be very sensible to CSOs and have momentum. You know, we're also seeing more collaboration between organizational boundaries, and even many CIOs are becoming much more involved in security as their line of business tends. And even some CSOs reporting it to CIO's. As we've said many times, cyber has become and will continue to be a board level agenda item and topic. On near term, we really don't see the fragmentation of the products that we've talked about for years changing. If anything, the shiny new security tools, you know, might even increase granularity in the marketplaces organizations, they can't just unplug their legacy infrastructure as much as they they'd like to. But longer term, there will be more consolidation in this market, as the whales are going to buy companies to fill holes in their lines. I mean, look at VMware, there's a good example of a company we really haven't talked about trying to elbow its way into the security space. And the cloud, as well, was going to attack some of the problems of complexity, which in part stems from too many tools, and that will foster some of this collaboration expectation. Okay, well, that's it for this week. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts. So please subscribe. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. So check that out and please do comment on my LinkedIn posts. You can email me as well, at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. This is Dave Vellante for The Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everyone. We'll see you next time. (mellow digital music)

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of VeeamON 2020. Brought to you by Veeam. Everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online 2020. And Danny Allen is here, he's the CTO and Senior Vice President of Product Strategy and he's joined by Anton Gostev, who's the Senior Vice President of Product Management. Gentlemen, good to see you again. Wish we were face-to-face, but thanks for coming on, virtually. >> Thanks Dave for having us. >> Always love being on with you. Thank you. >> So Danny, I want to start with you. In your keynote, you talked to, about great quote by Satya Nadella. He said "We basically compress two years of digital transformation in two months." And so, I'm interested in what that meant for Veeam but also specifically, for your customers and how you help. >> Yeah, I think about that in two different ways. So digital transformation is obviously the word that he used. But I think of this a lot about being remote. So in two months, every organization that we're ourselves included, has gone from, in person operations going into the office doing things to enabling remote operations. And so, I'm working from home today, Anton's working from home today. We're all working from home today. And so remote operations is a big part of that. And it's not just working from home, it's how do I actually conduct my operations, my backup, my archiving, my hearing, all of those things remotely. It's actually changed the way organizations think about their data management. Not just operations from the sense of internal processes, but also external processes as well. But I think about this as remote offering. So organizations say, "How can I take where we are today "in the world and turn this into competitive advantage? "How can I take the services that I offered today, "and help my customers be more successful remotely?" And so, it has those two aspects to it remote operations, remote offerings. And of course, all driven by data which we backed. >> So Anton, you know there's a saying "It's better to be lucky than good." And I say, "It's best to be lucky and good." So Danny was talking about some of the external processes, a lot of those processes were unknown. And people kind of making them up as they went along, with things that we've never seen before. So, I wonder if we could talk about your product suite, and how well you were able to adapt to some of these unknown. >> Well it's more customers using our product in creative ways. But, one feedback we got most recently in our annual user survey is that like, one of the customers was using tape as the off-site backups. And they had a process where obviously someone had to physically come to the office, pick up the exporter tapes and put them on the truck and move them some off-site location. And so this basically, the process was completely broken with COVID because of lockdown. And in that particular country, it was a stricter on the ground than in most and they were physically unable to basically leave the home. So they basically looked at, Luckily they upgraded already to version 10. And they looked at what version 10 has to offer. And then we're able to switch from using tape to fully automating this off-site backup and going directly to the public cloud to object storage. So, they still have the same off-site backups that, effectively air-gapped because of the first house you provide in virtual time for mutable backups. As soon as they created that they automatically ship to object storage, completely replacing this manual off-site process. So I don't know how long it will take them, if not COVID, to move to this process. Now they love it because it's so much better than what they did before. That's amazing. >> Yeah I bet, there's no doubt. That's interesting, that's an interesting use case. Do you see, others use cases that popped up. Again, I was saying that these processes were new. I mean, and I'm interested in from a product standpoint, how you guys were able to adapt to that. >> Well, another use case that seems to be on the rise is that the ability for customers to deploy the new machines to procure new hardware is severely limited now. Not only their supply chain issues, but also again, bring something into your data center. You have to physically be there and collaborate with other workers and doing installing the, whatever new hardware you purchase. So, we see a significant pick up of the functionality where that, we had in the product for a while, which we called direct resorts to cloud. So we support taking any backup, physical virtual machine. And restoring directory into cloud machine. So we see really the big uptick of migration, maybe a lot of migrations, maybe, not necessarily permanent migrations, but when people want to basically this, some of the applications start to struggle on their sources and they're unable to update the underlying hardware. So what they do is that they schedule the downtime, and then migrate, restore that latest backup into the cloud and continue using the machine in the cloud on much more powerful hardware. That's a lifesaver for them obviously in this situation. >> Yeah so the cloud, Danny is becoming a linchpin of these new models. In your keynote you talked about your vision. And it's interesting to note, I mean, VeeamON, last year, you actually talked about, what I call getting back to the basic of, backup, you kind of embrace backup, where a lot of the new entrants are like, "No no backup's, just one small part, it's data management." And, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. But the vision you laid out was, backup and cloud data management. Maybe you could, unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, the way I think about this is step one, in every infrastructure, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about on-prem or in the cloud. Step one is, to protect your data. So this is ingesting the data, whether be backup, whether it be replication, whether it be, long term retention. We have to do that, not only do we have to do that, but as you go to new cycles of infrastructure, it happens all over again. So, we backed up physical first and then virtual, and then we did, cloud and in some ways, containers we're going towards, we're not going backwards but people who are running containers on-prem so we always go back to the starting point of protect the data. And then of course, after you protect it then you, want to effectively begin to manage it. And that's exactly what Anton said. How do you automate the operational procedures to be able to make this part of the DNA of the organization and so, it doesn't matter whether it's on-prem or whether it's in the cloud, that protection of data and then the effective management and integration with existing processes, is fundamental for every infrastructure and will continue to be so into the future, including the cloud. And it's only then when you have this effective protection and management of it, can you begin to unleash the power of data, as you look out into the future, because you can reuse the data for additional purposes, you can move it to the optimal location, but we always start with protection and management of the data. >> So Anton, I want to come back to you on this notion of cloud being a portion of that, when you talk about security people say you layer, how should we think about the cloud? Is it a another layer of protection? And then Danny just said, "It doesn't really matter whether it's on-prem "or in the cloud, it well, it doesn't matter "if you can ensure the same experience." If it's a totally different experience well then it's problematic though. I wonder if you could address, both the layers. Is cloud just another layer and is the management of that, actually, how do you make it, quote, unquote, "Seamless"? I know it's an overused word, but from a product name? >> Well, for larger customers, it's not necessarily a new challenge, because it's rare when the customer had a single data center. And they had this challenge for always. How do I manage my multiple data centers with a single pane of glass? And, I will say public cloud does not necessarily mean that some new perspective in that sense. Yeah, maybe it even makes it easier because you no longer have to manage the physical aspect, the most important aspect of security, which is physical security. So someone else manages it for you and probably much better than most companies could ever afford. In terms of security answer, so then data center. But as far as networking security and how those multiple data centers interact with each other, that's essentially not a new challenge. It is a new challenge for smaller customers for SMBs that are just starting. So they have their own small data center, small world and now they are starting to move some workloads into the cloud. And I would say the biggest problem there is networking and VeeamON, sure provides some free tools to call Veeam PN to make it easier for them to make this step of, securing the networking aspect of public cloud and the private property also that they are in now as workloads move to the cloud, but also keeping some workloads on-prem. >> The other piece of cloud Danny, is SaaS. You weren't the first you were one of the first to offer SaaS back up particularly for Office 365. And a lot of people just, I think, rely on the SaaS vendor, "Hey, they've got me covered. "They've got me backed up", and maybe they do have them backed up, but they might not have them recovered. How is that market shaping up? What are the trends that you're seeing there? >> Well, you're absolutely right Dave. That the, focus here is not just on back up, but on recovery, and it's one of the things that Veeam is known for we don't just do the backup, but we have an Explorer for Exchange , an Explorer for SharePoint, an Explorer for OneDrive. You saw on stage today we demoed the Explorer for Microsoft Teams. So, it's not just about protecting the data, but getting back the specific element of data that you need for operations. And that is critically important. And our customers expect to need that. If you're depending on the SaaS vendor themselves to do that, and I won't, be derogatory or specific about any SaaS vendor, but what they'll often do is, take the entire data set from seven days ago, we'll say, and merge it back into the current data set. And that just results in, a complete chaos of your inbox, if that's what they're merging together. So having specific granularity to pull back that data, exactly the data you need when you need it, is critical. And that's why we're adding it, and the focus on Microsoft Teams now obviously, is because, as we have more intellectual property, in collaboration tools for remote operations, exactly what we're doing now, that only becomes more critical for the business. So, when you think about SaaS for backup, but we also think about it for recovery. And one thing that I'll credit Anton and the product management team for, we build all of this in-house, We don't give this to a third party to build it on our behalf because you need it to work and not only need it to work, but need it to work well, that completely integrated with the underlying cloud data management platform. >> So Anton, I wonder if I could ask you about that. So, from a recovery standpoint, there's one thing, is Dan was saying, you've got to have the granularity, you've got to be able to have a really relatively simple way to recover. But because it's the cloud, there's, latency involved and how are you from a product standpoint, dealing with, making that recovery as consistent and predictable and reliable as you have for a decade on-prem. >> So you mean recovery in the cloud or back to on-prem? >> Yeah, so, recovery from data that lives in the cloud. >> Okay. So basically, the most important feature of any cloud is the price of whatever you do. So, whenever we design anything, we always look at the costs even more than anything else. But, it in turn always translates into better performance as well. To give you example, without functionality where we can take the on-prem backup and make a copy in the public object storage for disaster recovery purposes, so that for example, when a hacker or ransomware wipes out your, entire data center, you have those backups in the cloud, and you can restore from them. So when you perform the restore from cloud backups, we are actually smart enough to understand that, we need to pull that and this in that block from the cloud backup, but many of those blocks actually shared with backups in another machines that are in your own prem backup repository. So we do this on the fly analysis, and we say, instead of pulling the 10 terabyte of the entire backup from the cloud, we can actually pull only 100 gigabytes off unique blocks. And the rest of the blocks we can take from on-prem repositories that have still survived the disaster. So, not only reduces the cost 20 times or whatever. The performance, obviously, of restoring from on-prem data versus pulling everything from the cloud through the internet links is dramatic. So again, we started from the cost, how do we reduce the cost of restore, because, that's where cloud vendors quote, unquote, "Get you." But in the end, it resulted in much better performance as well. >> Excellent, Anton as well in your keynote, you talked about the Veeam availability suite, gave a little sneak preview. You talked about continuous data protection. Cloud Tier, NAS recovery, which is oftentimes very challenging. What should we take away from that sneak peek? >> Three main directions basically, The first is Veeam CGP is we keep investing a lot in on-prem, data Protection, disaster recovery. VMware is a clear leader of on-prem virtualization. So, we keep building these, new ways to protect your web VMware with lower RPOs and RTOs that were never possible before with the classic snapshotting technologies. So that's one thing we keep investing on-prem. Second thing, we do major investments in the cloud in object storage specifically, from that regards, again, put a couple keynote in Google Cloud support. And we're adding the ability to work with coldest tier of object storage, which is Amazon Glacier Deep Archive or Microsoft Azure Blob Storage, archive tier. So that's the second big area of investment. And third, instant recovery Veaam has always been extremely well known for its instant recovery capabilities. And this race is going to be the biggest in terms of new instant recovery capabilities, that were introduced as many as three new major companies with capabilities there. (mumbles) >> So, Danny, I wonder if I could ask you. I'm interested in how you go from product strategy to actual product management and bring things to market. I mean, in the early days, Veeam. Very, very specific to virtualization. That of course, with the Bare-metal, you got a number of permutations and product capabilities. How do you guys work together in terms of assessing the market potential, the degree of difficulty, prioritizing, how does that all come to your customer value? >> Well, first of all, Anton and I, spend a lot of time together on the phone and collaborating just on a weekly basis about where we're going, what we're going to do. I always say there's four directions that we look at for the product strategy and what we're building. You look behind you, you have a, we have 375,000 customers and so those are the tail winds that are pushing you forward. We talked to them on all segments. What is it that you want? I say we look left and right, the left who are alliances. We have a rich ecosystem of partners and channel that we look to collect feedback from. Look right, we look out at the competitors in this space, what are they doing to make sure that we're not missing anything that we should be including and then look forward. Big focus of Veeam has always been not just creating check boxes and making sure that we have the required features but innovation. And you saw that on stage today when Anton was showing the NAS Instant Recovery in the database instant recovery and the capabilities that we have, we have a big focus on, not just checking a box but actually doing things better and differently than everyone else in the industry and that serve to see incredibly well. >> So I love that framework. But so now when you think about this pandemic, you look behind your customers have obviously been affected, your partners have been affected. Let's put your competitors to the side for a minute, we'll see how they respond. But then looking forward, future, as I've said many times, we're not just going back to 2019. We're new decade and really digital transformation is becoming real, for real this time around. So as you think about the pandemic and looking at those four dimensions, what initial conclusions are you drawing? >> Well, the first one would be that that Veeam is well positioned to win, continue to win and to win into the future. And the reason for that I would argue, is that we're software defined. Our whole model is based on being simple to use obviously, but software defined and because of the pandemic, as Anton said, can't go into the office anymore to switch your tapes from one system to another. And so being software defined set this apart positions as well for the future. And so make it simple, make it flexible. And ultimately, what our customers care about is the reliability of this end to the credit of research and development and Anton theme is, "We have product that as everyone says, it just worked". >> So Anton I wonder if I could ask you kind of a similar question. How has the pandemic affected your thinking along those dimensions and maybe some of your initial thinking on changes that you'll implement? >> Yes, sorry I wanted to add exactly on that. I will say that pandemic accelerated our vision becoming the reality. Basically, the vision we had and, I said a few years ago, one day that Veeam will become the biggest storage vendor without selling a single storage box. And this is just becoming the reality. We support a number of object storage providers today. Only a few of them actually track the consumption that is generated by different vendors. And just for those few who do track that and report numbers to us. We are already managing over hundreds of petabytes of data in the cloud. And we only just started a couple of years ago with object storage support. So that's the power of software defined. we don't need to sell you any storage to be eventually the biggest storage player on the market. And pandemic is clear accelerated that in the last three months we see the adoption, it was already like a hockey stick, but it's accelerating further. Because of the issues customers are facing today. Unable to actually physically go back to the office, do this backup handling the way they normally do it. >> Well guys, it's been really fun the last decade watching the ascendancy of Veeam, we've boarded on it and talked about it a lot. And as you guys have both said things have been accelerated. It's actually very exciting to see a company with, rich legacy, but also, very competitive with some of the new products and new companies that are hitting the market. So, congratulations, I know you've got a lot more to do here. You guys have been, for a private company, pretty transparent, more transparent than most and I have to say as an analyst, we appreciate that and, appreciate the partnership with theCUBE. So thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. Always a pleasure. >> Thanks Dave. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE in our coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online. Keep it right there, I'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Lenovo Transform 2.0. Brought to you by, Lenovo. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Lenovo Transform, here in New York City. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We have two guests here on this segment, We have Kirk Skaugen, he is the president of Lenovo Data Center Group, and Brad Anderson, the Corporate Vice President of Enterprise Mobility for NetApp. Thanks for coming on the program. >> Thank you for having us. >> So the big news of the day, the NetApp Lenovo partnership, explain to our viewers exactly what this means. These are two global powerhouses joining forces. >> Yeah sure, so I think Lenovo has had an amazing year. Last year in our Transform 1.0 we announced the largest server portfolio in our history. And this year we announced the largest data center, data management storage portfolio in our history. With a partnership with NetApp, so we're creating a multi-billion dollar global alliance, a multi-year alliance and it has a place in a joint venture in China as well as we'll be distributing NetApp products in over 160 countries in the world. >> So tell us about the background to this partnership. How did it come about? >> Well, you know, for NetApp we were looking for expanding our reach, and there was two markets that were kind of underserved in. One being kind of the commercial SMB SME channel, and Lenovo has a high-velocity channel there, a strong position. So Lenovo made complete sense in that space as well as in China, where we have a strong brand but we're underserved there as well, so who is better in China than Lenovo? So for us this is all about global market and then the fact that they're a server vendor is just icing on the cake, because the other two server vendors in the marketplace are also our competitors. And then, Lenovo is so much more compatible and complementary to our entire business. >> Kirk, maybe you could spend a little more, because when you look at storage today, storage is really built on servers. You know, NetApp is, you know, at it's heart a software company, even back in the day NetApp was never, some of the other storage companies spent a lot of time and money on the hardware pieces. And of course had reliable, good, trustable hardware, but maybe explain how much, kind of, I.P. goes into this partnership. >> Yeah, sure. So I think today we have about 15 percent coverage of the overall storage market within Lenovo. We've grown our flash array business over 100 percent over the last four quarters. IDC had us at 30% quarter to quarter growth. So we've done well, but we've only cover 15% of the market. After this announcement, and shipping now today, we'll cover over 90% of the market in more than 160 countries. So we're using our global supply chain which is ranked number five in the world by Garner. Manufacturing in Europe, in China, in Mexico et cetera. Really expand this out through our channel partnership program. And in China we're taking a very unique approach to this joint venture. This isn't about taking global products and just trying to force fit them into China. China has unique software solutions, unique hyper scale requirements. So we're pooling our R and D there. Lenovo will be a 51% owner, NetApp a 49% owner. Brad's going to be on the board and there we're going to be delivering products in China for China. >> Yeah, is it, you've got a lot of experience with that. You talk about coming in the future there's an NFV software and hardware solution in China, so Lenovo has some experience doing this kind of engagement, you know. >> Yeah, I think we have a more than 50% growth now, year on year in China. We retooled a lot of the operations that we had there. We have a really nice, broad portfolio now since we launched Think System and Think Agile so it's a nice place to grow on. But today we talked about the joint venture with NetApp and also the fact that over the next year we'll be building out a telecom NFV company after having China Mobile and China Telecom with us as at Mobile World Congress. As well as new edge gateway and edge server solutions. >> Brad, I know cloud is in your title for what you are doing, when I hear NetApp talking, I see NetApp at all the cloud shows we go to. It's a very different world than when I think about NetApp ten years or twenty years ago as like, you know, the Nas Filer company. So bring us up to speed of kind of the NetApp today the momentum and what this brings. >> Yeah, I mean we are going through our own transformation where we were principally a storage company and now we want to be a data company, and increasingly to be a data company you got to be a cloud company. And so, we continue to develop what we think are the, you know, the best storage products in the world, but they are all cloud connected. 'Cause we want data to be able to flow from prim to cloud and customers be able to, you know. That's what really kind of fuels these digital enterprises is that data is the new oil. And so in doing that we have kind of expanded NetApp's charter significantly to being the data authority in hybrid cloud. Hybrid being both the private and the public. And so part of my business is really focused on providing products and solutions so customers can have the same experience in building their own private clouds that they enjoy in the public. And then on the public side we have partnerships with all the hyper scalers to put NetApp's in there so they can deliver native cloud data services. And so, this is a very different company where we're getting more and more cloudy every day. (Rebecca laughs). And that's part of our transformation intentionally. >> So, the transformation, it's the theme of this conference and you were up on the main stage talking about Lenovo's turning this corner and really accelerating its growth, and also talking about the transformation from within the company. Changing the look of the leadership team in particular. Can you tell our viewers a little bit more about that strategy. >> Sure, so we acquired the IBM system X business in late 2014 and we did some things really well and we did some things that we've learned from. So we spent, you know, basically the last 18 months transforming the whole company. New channel programs, new system integrator partnerships, new training certifying over 11,000 people in the world now. Tripling the number of our solution recipes. And we have transformed The management team as well. We have replaced about 19 executives because we wanted the right balance of external and internal perspectives from our competitors as well as from ex-Lenovo and ex-IBM employees. So we feel like we have a very customer-centric organization now and, again, Gardner now is saying we are growing 49% year on year in units, IDC said we are growing 87% year on year in revenues. So I think customers are responding to the new product line. Over the last year the Think System brand truly meant the highest customer performance, the highest reliability, the highest customer satisfaction. And as a result it does take a while to transform. And I think that over the last 12 months you've seen that and we're exponentially growing now as a company. >> And you see it in your results. I mean, they are outstanding. >> So Brad, bring us inside the products a little bit. So we've got, it's the Think System DE and DM. Of course the storage industry very much, they need to trust it, they need to understand it. Gives little to understand, I believe DE maybe has something to do with the >> The E series >> The E series there and tell us the DM series, what's underneath there and how do people understand what's different and what's the same. >> Yeah, I mean the. We're taking platforms across our E series, our FAS and our all flash arrays. So the DE corresponds to the E series. The DM will have our FAS products as well as our all flash array products in there. So that's kind of the mapping. We're putting initially I think, ten products in there. We have the capacity to expand and I'm sure we're going to learn a lot because these are serving markets that NetApp doesn't typically serve. So I think not only is this going to give Lenovo the tools to compete, it's going to give us a lot of information to even build better products, better solutions for both NetApp and our Lenovo customers. So we're super excited about that. The second thing is, it's OnTab, it's the same core software, and all the value and performance testing and validation you get with NetApp. That all goes into the Lenovo branded products as well. And we have made it one of our hallmarks is our data fabric. All of the data services that are on top of this that you can move data and manage data between platforms, that is really important for the NetApp customer. All those values extend to the Lenovo customer. So if they also have NetApp in their environment, or vice-versa, they can share or move data between both those platforms. So that's, nowhere else in the industry is that possible across vendors let alone within. >> So how does it work when you are in the product development process. Two companies, both relentlessly focused on customers. This is part of your culture, part of your DNA. So how do you work together in terms of innovating and collaborating. >> Well, I think the first thing is you just look at the core business: our server business and NetApp branded storage, or Lenovo branded storage based on NetApp's portfolio. We're going to have a better together solution. So the first thing we're looking at is a set of solution recipes so that when you use NetApp and Lenovo together, you're going to get a better experience as a customer base. So that's why I am excited today. We've launched three times as many engineered solutions as we did a year ago. And trained these 11,000 people because we have a very solution oriented sales force and a very complementary channel. From a development perspective, we're going to be building X Clarity management into our portfolio. So the same systems management software that is mission critical for Lenovo server products will now manage the big system DE and DM products. So it's a very familiar management interface for customers, there's an engineering effort gone with that. And then on service and support, we're going to use over 10,000 people around the world that Lenovo has to go service and support these products. So we can deliver a premium customer experience. Whether you're buying the server or the storage. And back to the customer base: we're going to, especially in China, have deep engineering collaborations. Where we're walking into those customer bases and asking what's unique about the China market. >> And, and. It really helps that the two companies are very complementary. So NetApp has deep storage expertise, Lenovo has tremendous compute expertise. So they are very complementary and as customers want more and more complete solutions, we are learning, our engineers are learning from each other and it doesn't hurt the fact that we have a large engineering. We NetApp, have a large engineering population in the research triangle where Kirk's people are at. >> That's right. We're probably one kilometer away from each other in research triangle park. >> Geography matters, location location location. >> No, and our two support organizations are next door as well. So I think that proximity will only contribute to the collaboration. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Alright, so the storage industry actually has a relatively good track record of some deep, long partnerships. NetApp has had a number of them over the years. Tell us, what does success look like if we look back three years from now, what's this partnership. >> Well, what we said publicly is we plan to have a multi-billion dollar, multi-year alliance. So that's going to be fantastic as we grow in over 160 countries. We're going to use Lenovo's extensive supply chain network. So you know as one of the largest kind of procurers of componentry and things around the world, we get to leverage this global factory network to build even more value into that situation. And in China specifically, we've set a goal of being a top three storage player. So we both have probably single digit share in China but together with this collaboration we are setting sights quite high to be in the top three over the next several years. >> I think that's exactly right and I think those are all achievable goals. But right now, we want to get out the gate fast. I mean this is a partnership with two companies with a lot of momentum and I see this as a huge opportunity for both our companies to kind of amplify that momentum near term. And so while there's a lot of excitement on the future, I think success is going to look like, you know, some very exciting results that Kirk can share at Transform 3.0 next year. >> That's right. And for our customer base, we have already gone into production. Taking orders, as of today and tons of engineering, tons of manufacturing development. So we'll have a whole host of seed units and early access units. Our customers can get their hands on this stuff right away and start testing it in their environment. >> As you said, it is an audacious vision. You announced an audacious vision last year, you did another one again this year. So when you think about what you want to be talking about next year. You said what success looks like. What are some other things that you're working on? You said, this is a process, Lenovo has turned the corner and it's got a lot of momentum. But what else are you, what else do you have on tap that you're... >> Well, if we tell all of you that, (Rebecca laughs) we won't have this here next year. >> Yeah >> But I think today is about entry and midrange. About expanding Lenovo's breadth from 15 to 90% of the market and being very aggressive against our top competitors that have a combined server storage portfolio. And I think as I've gone around the world, I've been in Latin America, in India, our channel partners are incredibly excited about this. So I think while other customers might be taking business more direct, we've traditionally been very channel-centric. So, I've seen a lot of pull for choice in the market and I think that's what we're going to deliver to our channel partners. But we will have a lot more in store, that I can promise you. This is phase one of a multi-phase, multi-year plan. >> I think there's a lot of things, there's a lot of possibilities on the product development side and how we can do better products, but I think a lot of success is going to look, it's going to come in our global market. Already, Kirk, since I've been here, I've had a channel partner come up and said "Hey, this makes me rethink my channel partners all over again", because now that channel partner who's a Lenovo has the full breadth of the storage portfolio. So I think this is going to be really good for both of us. Particularly when, you know, Lenovo and NetApp are both very channel friendly partners and companies and I think this I going to be a catalyst to have more people on our side than ever before. >> Kirk, just last thing, just give you the opportunity to talk about some of the other breadth and choice and other things that Lenovo has going on. We're going to talk to some of your team about, you know, hyper converge and hyper scale and other hyper things, but yeah. (Rebecca laughs) >> Well I think the good news about our growth now is that we're doing it across multiple segments in the industry. There isn't just one part of the market that growing. So last year we set an audacious goal of being the largest supercomputer company in the world by 2020. We've now crossed that actually this year. So we are the largest supercomputer company in the world. About one in every four supercomputers now are there. And we're expanding that into a lot of AI offerings as well with our four artificial intelligence centers, from China, Germany, Taipei, Beijing. All having customers bring their AI workloads into a controlled environment with our partners where there's intel and video or the FGBA vendors. So super-computing is alive and well and we continue to innovate with our warm-water cooling technology that's going to be here on display. We think we're building one of the largest supercomputers in Europe right now using that technology. So not just helping solve global warming but being more energy-efficient while we are computing on that as well. In hyper scale we've grown to about delivering six of the top ten hyper scalers products. And we're doing that through, basically starting with a white sheet of paper with our customers and building more than thirty customized products. In the motherboard, in the system, in putting it through our entire supply chain. Versus just, in the past maybe two years ago, maybe just leveraging ODM products, so. Significant growth in hyper scale where we're bringing on new billion dollar customers on a regular basis now. And then in flash arrays, our traditional business, we were over 100% growth year on year. So we're building off of momentum. We had great products but only covering 15% of the market, now much larger. Last but not least, we did announce since Transform, new divisions in embedded and IoT as well as in telecommunications NFVF software. We think each of those can be billion dollar groups within Lenovo, so that's probably a lot of what we would be talking about next year is announcements and innovations we've had. Would be Transform 3.0 probably. (Rebecca laughs) >> Well, we're already looking forward to the next Transform. >> 3.0 will be CUBEd so we look forward to that. >> Stu, very nice. Very nice. Excellent. Well thank you so much Brad and Kirk for being on the show, I really appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more from Lenovo Transform and theCUBE's live coverage, just after this. (intense electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2018. (upbeat music) Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to IBM Think 2018 everybody. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with my co-host Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day three of our wall to wall coverage of IBM Think. The inaugural Think conference. Good friend Eric Herzog is here. He runs marketing for IBM storage. They're kicking butt. You've been in three years, making a difference, looking great, new Hawaiian shirt. (laughter) Welcome back my friend. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Good to see you. >> Always love being on theCUBE. >> So this is crazy. I mean, I miss Edge, I loved that show, but you know, one stop shopping. >> Well, a couple things. One when you look at other shows in the tech industry, they tend to be for the whole company so we had a lot of small shows and that was great and it allowed focus, but the one thing it didn't do is every division, including storage, we have all kinds of IBM customers who are not IBM storage customers. So this allows us to do some cross pollination and go and talk to those IBM customers who are not IBM storage customers which we can always do at a third party show like a VM World or Oracle World, but you know those guys tend to have a show that's focused on every division they have. So it could be a real advantage for IBM to do it that way, give us more mass. And it also, you know, helps us spend more on third party shows to go after a whole bunch of new prospects and new clients in other venues. >> You, you've attracted some good storage DNA. Yourself and some others, Ed Walsh was on yesterday. He said Joe Tucci made a comment years ago Somebody asked him what's your biggest fear. If IBM wakes up and figures it out in storage. Looks like you guys are figuring it out. >> Whipping it up and figuring it out. >> Four quarters of consistent growth, you know redefining your portfolio towards software defined. One of the things we've talked about a lot, and I know you brought this was the discipline around you know communicating, getting products to market, faster cycles, because people buy products and solutions right? So you guys have really done a good job there, but what's your perspective on how you guys have been winning in the last year or so? >> Well I think there's a couple of things. One is pure accident, okay. Which is not just us, is one of the leaders in the industry, where I used to work and Ed used to work has clearly stubbed its toe and has lost its way and that has benefited not only IBM but actually even some of our other competitors have grown at the expense of, you know, EMC. And they're not doing as well as they used to do and they've been cutting head count and you know, there's a big difference in the engineering spend of what EMC does versus what Michael Dell likes to spend on engineering. We have been continuing to invest. Sales resources, marketing resources, tech support resources in the field, technical resources from a development perspective. The other thing we did as Ed came back was rationalize the portfolio. Make sure that you don't have 27 products that overlap, you have one. And maybe it has a slight overlap with the product next to it, but you don't have to have three things that do the same thing and quite honestly, IBM, before I showed up, we did have that. So that's benefited us and then I think the third thing is we've gone to a solution-oriented focus. So can we talk about, as nerdy as tracks per sector and TPI and BPI and, I mean all the way down to the hard drive or to the flash layer? Sure we can. You know what, have you ever... You guys have been doing this forever. Ever met a CIO who was a storage guy? >> No, no. CIOs don't care about storage. >> Exactly, so you've got to... >> We've had quite a couple of ex-CIOs who were storage guys. (laughter) >> So you've really got to talk about applications, workloads, and use cases. How you solve the business problems. We've created a whole set of sales tools that we call the conversations available to the IBM sales team and our business partners which is how to talk to a CIO, how to talk to a line of business owner, how to talk to the VP of software development in a global enterprise who doesn't care at all, and also to get people to understand that it's not... Storage is a critical foundation for cloud, for AI, for other workloads, but if you talk latency right off the top, especially with a CIO or the senior executive, it's like what are you talking about? What you have to say is we can make your cloud sing, we can make your cloud never go down. We can make sure that the response time on the web browser is in a second. Whereas you know Google did that test about if you click and it takes more than two and a half seconds, they go away. Well even if that's your own private cloud, guess what they do the same thing. So you've got to be able to show them how the storage enables cloud and AI and other workloads. >> Let's talk about that for a second. Because I was having a thought here. It's maybe my only interesting thought here at Think, being pretty much overwhelmed. But the thought that I had was if you think about all the things that IBM is talking about, block chain, analytics, cloud, go on down the list, none of them would have been possible if we were still working at 10, 20, 30 milliseconds of wait time on a disc head. The fundamental change that made all of this possible is the move from disc to flash. >> Eric: Right. >> Storage is the fundamental change in this industry that has made all of this possible. What do you think about that? >> So I would agree with that. There is no doubt and that's part of the reason I had said storage is a critical foundation for cloud or AI workloads. Whether you're talking not just pure performance but availability and reliability. So we have a public reference Medicat. They deliver healthcare services as a service, so it's a software as a service model. Well guess what? They provide patient records into hospitals and clinics that tend to be focused at the university level like the University of California Health Center for the students. Well guess what? If not only does it need to be fast, if it's not available then you can't get the healthcare records can you? So, and while it's a cloud model, you have to be able to have that availability characteristic, reliability. So storage is, again, that critical foundation. If you build a building in a major city and the foundation isn't very good, the building falls over. And storage is that critical foundation for any cloud, any AI, and even for the older workloads like an SAP Hana or a Oracle workload, right? If, again if the storage is not resilient, oh well you can't access the shipping database or the payroll database or the accounts receivable database cause the storage is down and then obviously if it's not fast, it takes forever to get Dave Vellante's bill, right. And that's a waste of time. >> So it's plumbing, but the plumbing's getting more intelligent isn't it? >> Well that's the other thing we've done is we are automating everything. We are imbuing our software, and we announced this, that our range are going to be having an intelligent infrastructure software plane if you will that is going to help do diagnostics. For example, in one of the coming releases, if a customer allows access, if a power supply is going bad, we will tell them it's going bad and it'll automatically send a PO to IBM with a serial number, the address, and say please send me a new power supply before the power supply actually fails. But it also means they don't have to stock a power supply on their shelf which means they have a higher cost of cap ex. And for a big shop there's a bunch of power supplies, a bunch of flash modules, maybe hard drives if they're still dinosauric in how they behave. And they have those things and they buy them from us and our competitors. So imbuing it with intelligence, automating everything we can automate. So automatically tiering data, moving data around from tier to tier, moving it out to the cloud, what we do with the reuse of backup sets. Instead of doing it the old way of back up. And I know you've got Sam Warner coming on later today and he'll talk about modern data protection, how that is revolutionizing what dev ops and other guys can do with their, essentially, what we would've called in the old days back up data. >> Let's talk about your spectrum launch. Spectrum NAS, give us some plugs for that. What's the update there? >> So we announced on the 20th of February a whole set of changes regarding the Spectrum family. We have things around Spectrum PROTECT, with GDPR, Spectrum PROTECT Plus as a service as well as some additional granularity features and I know Sam Warner's going to come on later today. Spectrum NAS software defined network attached storage. Okay, we're not going to sell any infrastructure with it. We have for big data analytics our Spectrum scale, but think of Spectrum NAS as traditional network attached storage workloads. Home directories. Things like that. Small file service where Spectrum scale has one of our public references, and they were here actually at Edge a couple of years ago, one of the largest banks in the world, their entire fraud detection system is based on Spectrum scale. That's not what you would use Spectrum NAS for. So, and it's often common as you know in the file world to have sort of a traditional file system and then a big one that does big data, analytics and AI and is very focused on that and so that's what we've done. Spectrum NAS is a software only, software defined, rounds out our block, now gives a traditional file. We had scale out file already and IBM cloud object storage is also software defined. >> Well how about the get put world. What's happening there? I mean we've been waiting for it to explode. >> Ah so the get put world is all about NVME. NVME, new storage protocol as you know it's been scuzzy forever. Scuzzy and/or SATA. And it's been that way for years and years and years and years, but now you've got flash. As Peter pointed out spinning disc is really slow. Flash is really fast and the protocol of Scuzzy was not keeping up with the performance so NVME is coming out. We announced an NVME over InfiniBand Fabric solution. We announced that we will be adding a fiber channel. NVME fabric based and also in ethernet. Those will come and one of the key things we're doing is our hardware, our infrastructure's all ready to go so all you have to do is a non-disruptive software upgrade and for anyone who's bought today, it'll be free. So you can start off with fiber channel or ethernet fabrics today or InfiniBand fabric now that we can ship, but on the ethernet and fiber channel side, they buy the array today and then later this year in the second half software upgrade and then they'll have NVME over fiber channel or NVME over ethernet. >> Explain why NVME and NVME over fabric is so important generally but in particular for this sort of new class of applications that's emerging. >> Well the key thing with the new class of applications is they're incredibly performance and latency sensitive. So we're trying to do real artificial intelligence and they're trying to, for example, I just did a presentation and one of our partners, Mark III has created a manufacturing system using AI and Watson. So you use cameras all over, which has been common, but it actually will learn. So it'll tell you whether cans are bad. Another one of our customers is in the healthcare space and they're working on a genomic process for breast cancer along with radiology and they've collected over 20 million radiological samples of breast cancer analysis. So guess what, how are you going to sort through that? Are you or I could sort through 20 million images? Well guess what, AI can do that, narrow it down, and say whether it's this type of breast cancer or that type of breast cancer. And then the doctor can decide what to do about it. And that's all empowered by AI and that requires incredible performance which is what NVME delivers. Again, that underlying foundation of AI, in this case going from flash with Scuzzy, flash to NVME, increasing the power that AI can deliver because of its storage foundation. >> But even those are human time transactions. What about when we start taking the output of that AI and put it directly into operational transactions that have to run like a bat out of hell. >> Which is where NVME will come in as well. You cannot have the performance that we've had these last almost 30 years with Scuzzy and even slower when you talk about SATA. That's just not going to cut it with flash. And by the way, you know there's going to be things beyond flash that will be faster than flash. So flash two, flash three, it's just the way it was with the hard drive world, right? It was 2400 RPM then 36 then 54 then 72 then 10k then 15/5. >> More size, more speed, lower energy. >> Which is what NVME will help you do and you can do it as a fabric infrastructure or you can do it in the array itself. You dual in box and out of box connectivity with NVME increasing the performance within your array and increasing the performance outside of the array as you go out to your host and out into your switching infrastructure. >> So I'm loving Think. It's too many people to count, I've been joking all week. 30,000 40,000. We're still tallying up. I'm going to miss Edge for sure. I'm going to miss the updates in the you know, late spring. But so let's get 'em now. What can we expect? What are you trying to accomplish in the next six to nine months? What should we be looking for without giving any confidential information. >> Well we've already publicly announced that we'll be fleshing out NVME across the board. >> Dave: Right. >> So we already publicly announced that. That will be a big to-do. The other thing we're looking at is continuing to imbue what we do with additional solution sets. So that's something we have a wide set of software. For example, we publicly announced this week that the Versa stack, all flash array will be available with IBM cloud private with a CYSCO validated design in May. So again, in this case taking a very powerful system, the Versa Stack all flash, which already delivers ROI and TCO, but still is if you will a box. Now that box is a converge box with compute with switching with all flash array and with a virtual environment. But now we're putting, again as a bundle, IBM cloud private on there. So you'll see more and more of those types of solutions both with the rest of IBM but also from third parties. So if that offers the right solution set to cut capx/opx, automate processes, and again, for the cloud workloads, AI workloads and any workloads, storage is that foundation. The critical foundation. So we will make sure that we'll have solutions wrapped around that throughout the rest of this year. >> So it's great to see the performance in the storage division. Great people. We're under counting it. We're not even counting all the cloud storage that goes and counts somewhere else. You guys are doing a great job. You know, best of luck and really keep it up Eric, thanks very much for coming back on theCUBE. >> Great thank you very much. >> We really appreciate it. >> Thanks again Peter. >> Alright keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next segment right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE live from Think 2018. (upbeat music)