[Music] from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM hi I'm Stu Minuteman and this is the cubes coverage of IBM think 2020 the digital experience we talked to IBM executives their partners and their customers really thrilled to welcome back one of our cube alumni he has a new role since the last time he was on the cube at an event Jim white Hersey is now the president of IBM of course former CEO of Red Hat Jim pleasure to see you thanks so much for joining us hey it's great to be back hope you're doing well we are all trying to stay safe we miss seeing you and the team in person had a great digital event with the Red Hat team last week for summit of course I love you know either going to San Francisco or my backyard here in Boston from it but the thing we've been saying is we are now together even when we're apart so so many changes going on of course the global pandemic impacting everyone and the keynote you and the other IBM executive talking about you know really how it's helping IBM solidify what they believe their their decisions are and the technology direction so you know not a big vivid or change but Jim really want to get your feedback as to what advice you have for your customers where should they be investing worst they be slowing down how should they be thinking about their IP spend in today's world yeah so first off you know our hybrid cloud strategy which IBM and you know Red Hat now combined have been on for quite a long time has been all about flexibility resilience in an unknown future I think there were ever a time where having flexibility is important it's now so you know we have had clients saying hey I can use the cloud because all of a sudden with work at home I have huge increases in demand we find others that say wow I was using the cloud but I have a reduction in absolute demand so I want to pull those workloads back I'm gonna run premises say the marginal dollars so you have people kind of doing very different things than we thought we would be doing this month and going forward through the year and so having an architecture that's built for change it's certainly hybrid cloud architectures a part of that is I think being born out here as people are trying to understand new ways of working and certainly with IBM you know with some of the technologies we have around AI with helping various industries as they're all volumes increased as people are you know changing tickets or have more questions and our ability to help people scale up AI to address those so they're not trying to add people in a very difficult time you know just broadly you know our platforms run some of the most mission critical systems so keeping those systems up going and being resilient and with thousands of things CEOs and CIOs have to worry about you know knowing that you have a partner that's gonna keep your most important systems up and running are all things that we do every day and I think that value shows through even more right now yeah absolutely we've been hearing plenty of reports customers as they you know might have been thinking about how fast they move or how do they leverage cloud pods an important piece of what they need to be doing how does the combination of IBM and Red Hat differentiate from some of the other cloud offerings both cloud Nai across the industry today yeah sure well let me start off with cloud and then I'll talk about how AI complements and accelerates that that strategy so what's different about what IBM is doing is we have a vision that the best architecture is a choice full horizontal architecture where you can run your application anywhere but it's not just about running it now you know clouds are now becoming internet themselves a source of innovation via various api's with functionality behind those so in order to consume innovation learn ever it might come from you have to have flexibility to be able to move your work and so IBM is unique in saying hey we're not just a cloud provider we're actually providing a platform that runs across any of the major cloud providers and so we make that real by having the Red Hat platform OpenShift is a core part of what we do I think secondly as having the platform's great but it's all about having the platform so you can consume innovation to deliver business value and iBM has injected that with a whole series of capabilities whether that's being able to pull data and information out of you know existing workloads to the whole AI portfolio to help people really build a cognitive Enterprise and inject intelligence and AI into business processes so they can build you know a different intelligent kind of AI infused set of business processes or in our new businesses so the combination of a horizontal platform going to run anywhere with the ability whether it's with software or with services capability to add on top we can now help you leverage that we can help you take that Ferrari he built out for a drive to help you build new sources of value right one of the big discussion points this week has been edge computing a lot of discussion it's you know much earlier in the adoption and maturation of the ecosystems compared to what we were talking about for cloud so what's important with edge how our BM and RedHat going to extend what they've been doing to edge type of deployment well edge becomes an extension of the data center you know I think there was a period of time when we thought about computers as individual things and now we've had this idea of a data center is where computing happens and then they're you know thin devices like phones or whatever kind of out in the ether the tether back but you know as the Internet of Things continues to expand as the ability of computing technology towards the edge you know continues to grow with technology advances as 5g continues to expand out and you know abroad the ability to have use cases of computing at the edge just increase it increases so whether that's autonomous driving is an obvious major use case where they'll be massive amounts of you that you can't handle the latency of taking all that compute back to the data center to you know how you're making sure the paint finish that a factory is putting on a you know a piece of metal is being done you know correctly and optimally and environmentally efficiently all those things are far sensing at the edge and computing at the edge to be economic but here's the issue you don't want to have to develop a whole new infrastructure of software and you'll be able to do that a whole different set of developers with different skill sets and different rules on different infrastructure so what we're doing with this platform I talked about when I said this platform runs everywhere it's not just that it runs on the major public clouds or in your data center or bare metal or virtualized it runs all the way out to the edge now as soon as you get out to the edge you have a whole new set of management challenges because the types of applications are different how they temper hether back are different so we are working with large enterprises and with telcos not only on Bhaiji rollout but also edge infrastructure and the management tooling to be able to have an application run in the factory in an effective efficient safe way but then be able to be tethered all the way back to bringing data back for analytics in the data center so we've made some really exciting announcements on what we're doing with both industrial enterprise customers on edge computing and then how we're working with telcos to bring that to life because a lot of that obviously gets integrated back into the core telco infrastructure so this idea of edge computing and mobile edge computing are critical to the future of you know of computing but importantly they're critical to the future of how enterprises are going to operate that value going forward and so you know we've taken a real leadership position around that given that we have the core infrastructure but we also understand you know our clients and you know industry verticals and business processes so we could kind of come at it from both angles and really bring that value quickly to our all right and Jim what's the role of open source there you know one of the bigger points that was talked about at Summit last week was the I believe it's the advanced cluster management for cloud and it was some IBM people and some IBM technology came in to Red Hat and they've opened forced it we're just talking about edge computing and telecommunications service providers I remember talking with you and the team you know back at OpenStack summits with network functions fertilization open source was a big piece of it so where does open play in these ecosystem discussions well I should say this is one of the really exciting things about the the marriage of Red Hat and IBM is in Red Hat has deep capability and open source and delivering open source platforms and has been doing that for two decades now in IBM's always been a large participant in open source but has never really delivered platforms right it's always infused open source components in other kind of solutions and so by bringing the two together we can truly leverage the power of open source to help enterprises and telcos consume open source at scale to really be able to take advantage of this massive innovation is happening and so in particular you know we're seeing in telco exactly what we saw happened in the data center which is people did have these vertical stacks and the data center it was the unix's you know of the past where applications were tied to the operating systems tied to the hardware the same thing exists in telco infrastructure now and the telcos understand this idea the value of a horizontal platform so how do you have a commodity yet infrastructure underneath so hardware with an open source infrastructure so people can feel confident they're not locked into one vendor so also can feel confident that they can drive feature set that they need into these platforms and so the idea that open kind of almost think of it as Oh Linux but for data centers are now Linux for a 5g which is a combination of OpenStack on the virtualized side OpenShift brunetti ECM containers from a container of perspective be able to bring that to telcos and 5g rollouts allows them to separate the in functionality which sits in an application whether that's a virtualized application or a container and be able to confidently be able to run that on open infrastructure is something that open-source is doing today in telco and the same way it disrupted you know traditional data center infrastructure over the last couple decades and then IBM can both bring that with services capability as well as a whole set of value-added services kind of further up the stack which makes the open source infrastructure usable you know in a manageable cost-effective way today and so that's why we're so excited about especially what we could do with edge because we're bringing the same disruption we brought to the data center 20 years ago and we can do it in a safe secure reliable and manageable way all right well Jim thank you so much for the updates congratulations on all the accomplishments of the Red Hat team last week and the IBM team this week great thank you it's great to be back and I look forward to seeing you again live in the not-too-distant future absolutely until we're back in person the cube bringing you IBM think the digital experience on Stu minimun and as always thank you for watching the queue [Music] you

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation hello everybody welcome to the cubes exclusive coverage of IBM thanks 2020 digital event experience the cube covering wall-to-wall we've got a number of interviews planned for you going deep my name is Dave Volante I'm here with stoom in ament's - how you doing doing great Dave so we're socially distant as you can see in the studio and mohab row everybody's you know six feet apart got our masks on took them off for this for this segment so Stu let's get into it so a very interesting time obviously for IBM Arvind Krishna doing the big keynote Jim Whitehurst new president so you got a new leadership a lot of talk about resilience agility and flexibility you know which is kind of interesting obviously a lot of their clients are thinking about kovat 19 in that context iBM is trying to provide solutions and capabilities we're going to get into it but really the linchpin of all this is open shift and RedHat and we're gonna talk about what that means for the vision that Arvind Krishna laid out and let's get into it your your thoughts on think 2020 yeah so Dave of course you know last week we had Red Hat summit so Red Hat is still Red Hat you and I had a nice discussion going into Red Hat summit yes thirty four billion dollar acquisition there now under IBM Jim white her slides over in that new role as president but you know one of the questions we've had fundamentally Dave is does an acquisition like this will it change IBM will it change the cloud landscape openshift and Red Hat are doing quite well we definitely have seen some some of the financials and every audience that hasn't seen your analysis segment of IBM should really go in and see that because the Red Hat of course is one of the bright spots in the financials they're you know good growth rate on the number of customers and what they're doing in cloud and underneath a lot of those announcements you dig down and oh yeah there's openshift and there's Red Hat Enterprise Linux rel so you know I long partner for decades between IBM and Red Hat but is you know how will the IBM scale really help the Red Hat pieces there's a number of announcements underneath you know not just you know how does the entire world work on you know Z and power and all of the IBM platforms but you know I believe it's arvind says one of the enduring platforms needs to be the hybrid cloud and you heard a Red Hat summit the entire week it was the open hybrid cloud was the discussion well yes so that actually is interesting you brought up Arvin's sort of pillars there were three enduring platforms that he cited then the fourth of course is I guess open hybrid cloud but the first was mainframes the second was and I'm not sure this is the right order the second was services and then the third was middleware so basically saying excuse me we have to win the day for the architecture of hybrid cloud what's that mean to you then I'd like to chime in yeah so so Dave first of all you know when when we did our analysis when IBM bought red Hatton says you know my TL DR was does this change the cloud landscape my answer is no if I'm a Amazon I'm not sitting there saying oh geez you know the combination of IBM and Red Hat well they're partners and they're they're gonna be involved in it does IBM have huge opportunities in hybrid cloud multi cloud and edge computing absolutely one of the questions is you know how will I be M services really be transformed you know Dave we've watched over the last decade some of the big service organizations have really shrunk down cloud changed the marginal economics you've done so much discussion of this over the last handful of years that you need to measure yourself against the hyper scalars you need to you know see where you can add value and the question is Dave you know when and where do we think of IBM in the new era well so coming back to sort of your point about RedHat and services is it about cloud is a developer's near-term I've said it's it's more about services than it is about cloud longer-term I think it is about cloud but but IBM's definition of cloud is maybe a little different than 10 hours but when Jeannie when on the roadshow - after the redhead acquisitions you said this is gonna be a creative - free cash flow within one year and the reason why I always believe that is because they were gonna plug Red Hat and we've talked about this an open shift right into their services business and start modernizing applications right away they've actually achieved that so I think they had pretty good visibility and that was kind of a mandate so IBM's huge services organization is in a good position to do that they've got deep industry expertise we heard Arvind Krishna on his keynote talking about that Jim Whitehurst talking more about services you really didn't hear Jim you know previously in his previous roles talk a lot about services other than as part of the ecosystem so it's an interesting balancing act that that iBM has to do the real thing I want to dig into Stu is winning the day with the with with the architecture of hybrid cloud so let's start with with cloud talk about how IBM defines cloud IBM on its earning earnings call we talked about this on our Red Hat Summit analysis the cloud was you know 23 billion you know growing it whatever 20 20 plus percent when my eyes have been bleeding reading IBM financial statements in ten case for the last couple of weeks but when you go in there and you look at what's in that cloud and I shared this on my braking analysis this week a very small portion of that cloud revenue that what last year 21 billion very small portion is actually what they call cloud cloud and cognitive software it's only about 20 percent of the pie it's really services it's about 2/3 services so that is a bit of a concern but at the same time it's their greatest opportunity because they have such depth and services if IBM can increase the percentage of its business that's coming from higher margin software a business which was really the strategy go back 20 years ago it's just as services became this so big it's so pervasive that that software percentage you know maybe it grew maybe it didn't but but that's IBM's opportunities to really drive that that that software based revenues so let's talk about what that looks like how does OpenShift play in that IBM definition of cloud which includes on Prem the IBM public law everybody else's public cloud multi-cloud and the edge yeah well first of all Dave right the question is where does IBM technologies where do they live so you know look even before the Red Hat piece if we looked at IBM systems there's a number of times that you're seeing IBM software living on various public clouds and that it's goodness you know one of the things we've talked about for a number of years is you know how can you become more of a software company how can you move to more of the you know cloud consumption models you go in more op X and capex so IBM had done some of that and Red Hat should be able to help supercharge that when we look at some of the announcements the one that of course caught my other most Dave is the you know IBM cloud satellite would would say the shorthand of it it's IBM's version of outposts and underneath that what is it oh it's open shift underneath there and you know how can I take those pieces and we know open ship can live across you know almost any of the clouds and you know cannot live on the IB cloud IBM cloud absolutely can it be open ship be in the data center and on virtualization whether it be open source or VMware absolutely so satellite being a fundamental component underneath of open ship makes a lot of sense and of course Linux yeah Linux underneath if you look at the the one that we've heard IBM talking about for a while now is cloud packs is really how are they helping customers simplify and build that cloud native stack you start with Red Hat Enterprise Linux you put openshift on top of that and then cloud packs are that simple toolset for whether you're doing data or AI or integration that middleware that you talked about in the past iBM has way the ways that they've done middleware for decades and now they have the wonderful open source to help enable that yeah I mean WebSphere bluemix IBM cloud now but but OpenShift is really that pass layer that that IBM had coveted right and I was talking to some of IBM's partners getting ready for this event and they say if you dig through the 10k cloud packs is one of those that you know there are thousands of customers that are using this so it's good traction not just hey we have this cloud stuff and it's wonderful and we took all of these acquisitions everything from SoftLayer to software pieces but you know cloud packs is you know a nice starter for companies to help really move forward on some of their cloud native application journey yes so what whatever we talked about this past week in the braking analysis and certainly David floor has been on this as well as this notion of being able to run a Red Hat based let's call it a stack everywhere and Jim White has talked about that essentially really whether it's on Prem at the edge in the clouds but the key there stew is being able to do so natively so every layer of you know it began call it the stack IT services the data plane the control plane the management plane all the planes being able to the networking the transport etc being natively able to run wherever it is so that you can take fine-grain advantage and leverage the primitives on respective clouds the advantage that IBM has in my view would love your thoughts on this is that Red Hat based platforms it's open source and so I mean it's somebody gonna trust Amazon to be the the cloud native anybody's cloud yeah you know solution well if you're part of the Amazon stack I mean I Amazon frankly an Oracle have similar kind of mindset you know redstack Amazon stack make it all homogeneous and it'll run just fine IBM's coming at it from an open source perspective so they they in some ways will have more credibility but it's gonna take a lot of investment to really Shepherd those standards they're gonna have to put a lot of commitments in committers and they're gonna have to incent people to actually adhere to those standards yeah I mean David's the idea of pass the platform as a service that we've been chasing as an industry for more than a decade what's interesting if you listen to IBM what's underneath this well it's you know taking advantage of the container based architecture with kubernetes underneath so can I run kubernetes anywhere yeah pretty much every cloud has their own service OpenShift can live everywhere the question is what David floors rightly putting out okay if I bake to a single type of solution can i really take advantage of the native offerings so the discussion we've always had for a long time as dua virtualize something in which case I'm really abstract away I get to you know I can't take advantage of the all various pieces do I do multi cloud in which case I have some least common denominator way of looking at cloud because I what I want to be able to do is get the value in differentiation out of each cloud I use but not be stuck on any cloud and yes Dave Red Hat with openshift and based with kubernetes and the open source community is definitely a leading way to do that what you worry about is saying okay how much is this stuck on containerization will it be able to take advantage of things like serverless you talk to IBM and say okay underneath it's going to have all this wonderful components Dave when I talked to Andy Jesse and he says if I was rebuilding AWS today it would all be service underneath so what is that underlying construct you know is it flexible and can it be updated Red Hat and IBM are going to bridge between the container world and the serverless world with things like a native but absolutely we are not yet at the Nirvana that developers can just build their apps and know that it can run anywhere and take advantage of anything so you know some things we know we need to keep working so a couple other things there so Jim Weider has talked about ingesting innovation that the nature of innovation is such that it comes from a lot of different places open source obviously is a you know fundamental you know component of that he talked about the telco edge he gave an example of Vodafone Arvind Krishna talked about anthem kind of redefining healthcare post kovat so you're seeing some examples of course that's good that IBM puts forth some really you know proof points it's not just you know slide where which is good I think the the interesting thing you know you can't just put you know containers out there and expect the innovation to find its way into those containers it's gonna take a lot of work to make sure that as those different layers of the stack that we were talking about before are actually going to come to fruition so there's there's the there's some other announcements in this regard to these Edgecumbe edge computing application manager let's say the telco edge a lot of automation focused you mentioned IBM satellite there's the financial services cloud so we're seeing IBM actually you know sprinkle around some investments there as I said in my breaking in houses I'd like to see them dial up those investments a little bit more maybe dial down the return of cash at least for the next several years to shareholders yeah I mean Dave the concern you would talk to most customers and you say well if you try to even optimize your own data center and turn it into a cloud how can you take advantage of the innovation that the Amazon Microsoft Google's and IBM's are Tait are putting out there in the world you want to be able to plug into that you want to be able to leverage those those new services so that is where it's definitely a shift Dave you think about IBM over a hundred years usually they're talking about their patent portfolio I I think they've actually opened up a lot of their patent portfolio to help attack you know the kovat 19 so it is definitely a very different message and tenor that I hear under Arvind Krishna you know in very early days than what I was used to for the last decade or two from IBM yeah well at the risk of being a little bit repetitive one of the things that I talked about in my breaking the analysis I highlighted that arvind said he wants to lead with a technical story which I really like Arvin's a technical visionary his predecessors his three predecessors were not considered technical visionaries and so I think that's one of the things that's been lacking inside of IBM I think it's one of the reason why why Services has been such a dominant component so look Lou Gerstner too hard to argue with the performance of the company but when he made the decision and IBM made the decision to go all-in on services something's got to give and what gave and I've said this many many times in the cube was was product leadership so I'd like to see IBM get back to that product leadership and I think Red Hat gives them an opportunity to do that obviously Red Hat Linux you know open source is a leader the leader and this is jump all as we've talked about many times in this multi hybrid cloud edge you know throwing all the buzzwords but there's some interesting horses on the track you got you got VMware we throw in AWS just because they're there you can talk about cloud without talking about AWS certainly Microsoft has designs there Cisco Google everybody wants a piece of that pie and I would say that you know Red Hat with with with OpenShift is in a good position if in fact they can make the investments necessary to build out those stacks yeah it's funny Dave because IBM for the history the size that they are often can get overlooked you talk about you know we've probably spent more air time talking about the VMware Amazon relationship than almost any in the last few years well we forget we were sitting at vmworld and two months before VMware announced the Amazon partnership who was it that was up on the main stage with Pat Gelson der it was IBM because IBM was the first partner I I believe that I saw numbers that IBM was saying that they have more hosted VMware environments than anyone out there I'd love to see the data on it to understand there because you know IBM plays in so many different places they just often are not you know aggregated and counted together you know when you get outside of some of the you know middleware mainframe some of the pieces that you talked about earlier Dave so IBM does have a strong position they just haven't been the front center leader too often but they have a broad portfolio and very much services led so they they kind of get forgotten you know off on the sides so IBM stated strategy is to bring those mission critical workloads into the cloud they've said that 80% of the workloads remain on Prem only 20% have been been clarified you know when you when you peel the onions on that there's just is so much growth and cloud native workloads so you know there's there is a somewhat of a so what in that but I will say this so where are the mission critical workloads where do they live today they live on Prem we can but but but whose stacks are running those it's IBM and it's Oracle and and David floor has done some research that suggests that if you're gonna put stuff into the cloud that's mission-critical you're probably better off staying with those those stacks that are going to allow you to a lower risk move not have to necessarily rip and replace and so you know migrating mission-critical Oracle database into AWS or db2 you know infrastructure into AWS is is gonna be much more challenging than than going same-same into the IBM cloud or the respective Oracle cloud so I guess my question to you Stu is why do people want to move those mission critical workloads into the cloud do they well first of all it's unlocking innovation that you talked about Dave so you know we've looked at from a VMware standpoint versus a red hat standpoint if you talk about building new apps doing containerization having that cloud native mindset do I have a bimodal configuration not so not a word that we talk about as much anymore because I want to be able to modernize it modernizing those applications doing any of those migrations we know or super challenging you know heck David Flair has talked about it for a long long time so you bring up some great points here that you know Microsoft might be the best at meeting customers where they are and giving people a lot of options IBM lines up in many ways in a similar ways my biggest critique about VMware is they don't have tight ties to the application it's mostly you know virtual eyes it or now we have some cloud native pieces but other than the pivotal group they didn't do a lot with modernization on applications IBM with their middleware history Red Hat with everything that they do with the developer communities are well positioned to help customers along those digital journeys and going through those transformations so it's you know applications need to be updated you know if anybody that's used applications that are long in the tooth know that they don't have the features that I want they don't react the way they want heck today Dave everybody needs to be able to access things where they are on the go you know it's not a discussion anymore about you know virtual desktop it's about you know work anywhere have access to the data where I need it and be much more flexible and agile and those are some of the configurations that you know iBM has history and their services arm can help customers move along those journeys yeah so you know I think one of the big challenges iBM has it's got a it's got a its fingers in a lot of pies AI you know they talk a lot about blockchain they're about quantum quantum is not gonna be here for a while it's very cool we have an interview coming up with with Jamie Thomas and you know she's all over the quantum we've talked to her in the past about it but I think you know if you think about IBM's business in terms of services and product you know it's whatever it is a 75 you know billion dollar organization 2/3 or and maybe not quite 2/3 maybe 60 Plus percent is services services are not an R&D intensive business you look at a company like Accenture Stu I think Accenture spent last year 800 million on R&D they're a forty five billion dollar forty six billion dollar company so if you really isolate the IBM you know company to two products whatever its call it 25 30 billion they spend a large portion of that that revenue on R&D to get to the six billion but my argument is it's it's not enough to really drive the type of innovation that they need just another again Accenture data point because they're kind of a gold standard along with IBM you.why and others and and a couple of others in services they return seventy six percent of their cash to shareholders iBM has returned consistently 50 to 60 percent to its shareholders so arvind stated he wants to return IBM to growth you know every every IBM CEO says that Ginni I used to talk about has to shrink to grow as I said unfortunately so you should run out of time and now it's up to Arvind to show that but to me growth has got to come from fueling Rd whether it's organic or inorganic I'd like to see you know organic as the real driver for obvious reasons and I don't think just open source in and of itself obviously is going to attract that it'll attract innovation but whether or not IBM will be able to harness it to his advantage is the real challenge unless they're making huge huge commitments to that open source and in a microcosm you know it's a kind of a proxy we saw what happened to Hortonworks and cloud era because they had to had to fund that open source commitment you know IBM we're talking about much much with the hybrid multi-cloud edge much much bigger opportunity but but requirement and we haven't even talked about AI you know bringing you know I think I think you have a quote on you know data is the fuel what was that quote yes it was Jim Whitehurst he said data is the fuel cloud is the platform AI is accelerant and then security my paraphrase is the mission control there so sounds a lot like your innovation cocktail that you've been talking about for the last year or so Dave but iCloud but so okay but AI is the accelerant and I agree by the way applying AI to all this data that we have you know over the years automating it and scaling it in the cloud it's critical and if IBM wants to define cloud as you know the cloud experience anywhere I'm fine with that I'm not a fan of the way they break down their cloud business I think it's bogus and I've called them on that but okay fine so maybe we'll get by that I'll get over it but but but really that is the opportunity it's just it's got to be funded yeah no Dave absolutely iBM has a lot of really good assets there they've got strong leadership as you said can Arvind do another Satya Nadella transformation there's the culture there's the people and there's the product so you know IBM you know absolutely has a lot of great resources and you know smart people and some really good products out there as well as really good ecosystem partnerships it's you know Amazon is not the enemy to IBM Microsoft is a partner for what they're doing and even Google is somebody that they can work with so you know I always say back in the ten years I've been working for you Dave I think the first time I heard the word coopertition I thought it was like an IBM trademark name because they were the ones that really you know lead as to have a broad portfolio and work with everybody in the ecosystem even though you don't necessarily agree or partner on every piece of what you're doing so in a multi cloud AI you know open ecosystem IBM's got a real shot yeah I mean a Satya Nadella like move would be awesome of course Satya had a much much larger you know of cash hoard to play with but but I guess the similarity stew are you you're notwithstanding that now we have three prominent companies run by Indian native born leaders which is pretty astounding when you think about it but notwithstanding that there are some similarities just in terms of culture and emphasis and getting back to sort of the the technical roots the technical visionaries so I'm encouraged but I'm watching very closely stew as I'm sure you are kind of where those investments go how how it plays in the marketplace but but I think you're right I think people underestimate IBM and and but the combination of IBM Red Hat could be very dangerous yeah Dave how many times do we write the article you know has the sleeping giant of IBM been awoken so I think it's a different era now and absolutely there's IBM has the right cards to be able to play at some of these new tables and it's a different IBM for a different era somebody said to me the other day that and probably you've probably heard this you have to but it was first I heard of it is that within five years IBM had better be a division of Red Hat versus the other way around so all right Stu thanks for for helping to set up the IBM think 2020 digital event experience what coming at you wall-to-wall coverage I think we've got over 40 interviews lined up Stu you you have been doing a great job both last week with the Red Hat summit and helping out with IBM thanks so thanks for that Dave no no rainy week at the new Moscone like we had last year a really good content from the comfort of our remote settings yeah so keep it right there buddy this is Dave a lot a force to Minutemen go to Silicon angle calm you'll check out all the news the the cube net we'll have all of our videos will be running wall-to-wall wiki bong calm has some some of the research action this day Volante force too many we'll be right back right after this short break [Music]

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen. You buy bread. >> Oh, good morning. Welcome back to our live coverage here on the Cube of Red Hat Summit twenty nineteen, along with two men. Timon, I'm John Walls were in Boston. A delightful day here in Beantown. Even made more so by the presidents of Jim White, her's president, CEO, Red hat. Jim, Thanks for joining us. Number one. Number two. What else could go right for you here this week? This has just been a great show. Great keynotes. You had great regulatory news on Monday. I mean, you've got a four leaf clover in that pocket there. I think for him >> to tell you what the weather is holding up well, for us, you're right with great partnership announcements. Amazing product launches. You have been a red hat, but eleven years now and this is only my third rail launch, right? When we deliver it, we commit to long lives. And so But it's awesome to be a part of that. And we had all the engineers on stage. I can't imagine how it could get any better. >> You >> win the lottery >> Oh, yeah? Well, yes. This one step at a time here. Relate and open share for we'LL get to those just a little bit. Let's go back to the keynote last night. First life, you have CEOs of IBM and Microsoft. Very big statements, right? We know about the IBM situation. I think a lot of people got a charge out of that a little bit. You know, Jenny commenting about have a death wish for this company. And I have thirty four billion reasons why I wanted to succeed. But a very good message. I think about this. This linkage that's about to occur, most likely. And the thought going forward from the IBM side of the fence? >> Yeah. I thought it was really good toe have her there. Not only to say that, you know, we're obviously bought it toe to make it grow, but also really making a statement about how important open source is to the future of IBM, right? Yeah. What became clear to me early on when we were talking is this is a major major. I would say that the company might be too strong a word, but it is a major kind of largest possible initiative around open source than you can imagine. And so I can't imagine, uh, imagine a better kind of validation of open source with one large technology companies the world basically going all in with us on it >> to talk about validation of open source, such a nadella up on stage. If you had told me five years ago that within a week I would see Satya Nadella up on stage with the CEO of'Em wear and then a week later up on stage with the CEO, right hat, I'm like, Are we talking about the same Microsoft? This is not the Microsoft that I grew up with on and worked with soap. We're talking your team and walking around. It wasn't just, you know, he flew in from Seattle. I did. The casino left. He was meeting with customers. There's a lot of product pieces that are going together, explain a little bit, that kind of the depth of the partnership and >> what we've made. Just tremendous progress over the last several years with Microsoft, you know, started back in two thousand fifteen. Where were you across certified hyper visors, And that's kind of a basic you know, let's work together. Over the last couple of years, it's truly blossomed into a really good partnership where, you know, I think they've and we both gotten over this, you know, Lennox versus Windows thing. And you know, I say, we've gotten over. I think we both recognized, you know, we need to serve our customers in the best possible way on that clearly means is two of the largest infrastructure software providers working closely together and what's been interesting. As we've gone forward, we find more and more common ground about how we could better serve our customers. Whether that's you know what might sound mundane. That's a big deal sequel server on Realm and setting benchmarks around that or dot net running on our platforms. Now all the way to really be able to deliver a hybrid cloud with a seamless experience with open shift from, you know, on premise to to Azure and having Deutsche Bank on State's twenty five a thousand containers running in production, moving back and forth to your >> you know what getting customers to change is challenging. You know, it's a little surprising even after that this morning to be like Oh, yeah. Let me pull up windows and log in and do all this stuff. We've talked to you a lot over the years about culture, you know, loved your book. We've talked a lot about it, but I really enjoyed. Last night is I mean, you had some powerful customers stories talking about how red hats helping them through the transformation. And like the Lockheed one for me was like And here's how we failed at first because we tried to go from waterfall to scrum Fall on. Do you know he definitely had the audience you're after? >> Yeah, I really wanted to make Mikey No talking about it called How we have so many great What's to talk about your rela a open ship for bringing all those capabilities from for OS. But I really wanted Teo talk about the hell, because that actually is the hardest part for customers. And so having kind of customers back in back to back to back, talking about success stories and failures to get there, and it really is about culture. And so that's where we called the open source way, which we kind of coin, which is, you know, beyond the code. It's, you know, meritocracy and how you get people to work together and collaboration. That's what more and more our customers want to talk about. In fact, I'd say ninety percent of the customer meetings I'm in, which are, you know, more CIA level meetings they're all about. Tell me about culture. Tell me how you go about doing that. Yeah, We trust the technology's gonna work. We don't have that issue with open source anymore. Everybody assumes you're gonna have open source. It's really how do you actually make that effective? And so that's what I really wanted to tow highlight over the course of the evening. >> You know, there was a lot of conversation, too. And you have your talking to Jenny about culture last night that you have multiple discussions over the course of the negotiation or of the conversations. So it wasn't just some cursory attention This I mean, the both of you had a really strong realization that this has to work in terms of this, you know, merging basically of philosophies and whatever. But you've had great success, right with your approach. So if you can share a little bit about how those cops is ations How you went through what transpired? Kind of how we got to where we are Now that you know, we're on the cusp of successful moment for you. Yeah, >> sure. So, yeah. I mean, from day one, that was the center of the discussion, I think early on. So year Agos, um, IBM announced, contain arising their software on open shift. And I think that's when the technical light went off about Hey. Having the same bits running across multiple clouds is really, really valuable in open shifts. The only real way to do that. And yes. Oh, Arvind was here from IBM on stage talking about that. And so I think technically, it was like, OK, ding, this makes sense. Nobody else could do it. And IBM, with their capabilities and services integration center. Just lot of strategic logic, I think the difficult part. Even before they approached this. Now, kind of looking back on it, having all these discussions with him now it's okay. Well, culturally, how do we bring it together? Because, you know, we both have strong cultures, mean IBM has a famous culture. We do that air very, very, very different. And so from the moment Jenny first approached me literally, you know, Hey, we're instant this, But let's talk about cultural, how we're going to make this work because, you know, it is a lot of money to spend on a company with No I p. And so you know, I think as we started to work through it, I think what we recognized is we can celebrate the strength of each other's cultures, and you know the key. And this is to not assume that there's one culture that's right for everything. We have a culture hyper optimized for collaboration and co creation, whether that's upstream with our source communities or downstream with our customers or with our employees and how that works. And that's great. Let's celebrate that for what it is. And, you know, IBM kind of run some of those big, most mission critical systems in the world, you know, on mainframes and how you do that looks and feels different. And that's okay. And it's okay to be kind of different. But together, if we can share the same values if we can, you know, share the same desire to serve our customers and put them first how we go about doing it. It's okay if those aren't exact. And as we got more comfortable with that, um, that's when I got more comfortable with it. And then, most importantly for me is we talk about culture. But a lot of our culture comes from the fact that we're truly a mission kind of purpose driven company, right? We're all about making open source the default choice in the world. And you know, to some extent remember, have these conversations with senior teams like, Hey, we were going to think we're going to change the world. You know? How better can we propel this for? This is such a huge platform to do it, and yet it's going to be hard. But aren't we here to do hard things? >> So it talked about it, You know, it's it's always been difficult selling when you don't have the. There's been a lot of discussions in the ecosystem today, as companies that build I p with open source and some of the models have been changing and some of the interactions with some of the hyper scale companies and just curious when you look at that, it's you know, related to what you're doing, what feedback you have and what you're seeing. >> Yeah. Look, first, I'LL say, I can't talk about that as an interested observer because our model is different than a lot of open source software companies. You know, Paul talked about in his keynote today, and we talked a lot about you know, our models one hundred percent open source, where we take open source code, typically getting involved in existing communities in creating life cycles, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so that model's worked well for us. Other open source companies where I think this is more of a challenge with the hyper scale er's right more of the software themselves. And obviously they therefore need to monetize that in a more direct way. You know, our sins are businessmen always say it's a really bad business model the right software and give it away. You know, that's not what we do where hundreds and open source, but you know, if you look at our big communities were, you know, ten to twenty percent of the contribution, because we want to rely on communities. The issue for those companies that are doing Maur. The code contribution themselves is there's a leakage in the open source license, which is, you know, the open source, like the viral licenses. You know, if you make changes and you redistribute, you have toe also, you know, redistribute your code as well. And redistribution now is to find in a hyper scale is just different. So there's kind of a leakage in the model. I think that ultimately gets fixed by tweaks to the licenses. I know it's really controversial, and companies do it, but, you know, Mongo has done it. I think you'LL see continuing tweaks to the length the licenses would still allow broad use, but kind of close that loophole if you want to call that a loophole. >> Yeah, well, it's something that you know as observers. We've always watched this space and you know, when you talk about Lennox, you know, you've created over three billion dollar company, But the ripple effects of Lennox has been huge. And I know you've got some research that we want to hear about when we've looked at like the soup space. When you look at the impact of big data and now where is going you know, the hoodoo distribution was a very, very small piece of that. So, you know, talk a little bit about the ripples. Is some new research that >> way? Had some research that was that we commission to say, What is the impact of Lenin's right hand and press linens? And then we were all blown away. Ten trillion dollars. I mean, so this isn't our numbers or we had really experts do this and e. I mean, it really blew us away. But I think what happens is if you think about how pervasive it is in the economy, it's ultimately hard to have any transaction done that doesn't somehow ripple into technology and technology. Days primarily built around Lynn IQ. So in red headed President X is the leader, so it just pervades and pervades. When you look at the size in the aperture and you make a really good point around, whether it's a duper lennox, I mean, we could look a red hat, the leader and Lennox and we're, you know, less than four billion dollars of revenue. But we've created this massive ecosystem the same thing with the Duke. You think about how big an impactful. Big data and the analytics and built on it are massive. The company's doing are only a couple hundred million dollars, and I will say I've become comfortable with I'd say, five years ago, I used to say in my glass half empty day I'd be like we're creating all of this value yet we're just only getting this little tiny sliver. Um, I've now flip that around and say My glass Half full days I look and say Wow, with this lever we have with this little bit of investment were fundamentally changing the world. And so everybody's benefiting in a much larger scale around that. And when you think about it, that aperture is something really, really, really excited >> about. Well, you talk about, you know where the impact will be. Talk about Cloud, that the wave of container ization, you know, Where do you see that ending up? You know, I look, you know, Cooper Netease is one of those things. There's a lot of excitement and rightfully so. It was going to change the market, but it's not about a Cuban aunties distribution. It's going to be baked into every platform out there. Yeah, gunships doing quite well. And you know all the cloud providers, your partner with them and working with them. It's less fighting to see who leads and Maura's toe. How do we all work together on this? >> Well, you know, I think that's >> the great thing about ah well functioning, mature, open source projects is it behooves everybody to share. Now we'LL compete ultimately, you know, kind of downstream. But it who's everybody to share and build on this kind of common kind of component. And, you know, like any good open source project, it has a defined set of things that it does. I think you hit on a really important point. Cooper Netease is such an important layer. Doesn't work without Lennox, right? I mean, lyrics is, you know, containers or Lennox. And so how do you think about putting those pieces to gather manageability and automation thinks like answerable. And so, you know, at least from our perspective, it's How do you take these incredible technologies that are cadence ng, you know, at their own pace and are fundamentally different but can't work unless you put them all together? Which to us, you know, that creates a big opportunity to say, How do I take this incredible technology that thousands of, of really technically Swiss cave people are working on and make it consumable? Archer Traditional model has been like linnet, simply saying We're going to snap shot. We're going created to find life we're going back for, you know, do patching for what? And we still do that. But there's now an added sir sort of value, something like open shift, where you can say, Okay, we could put these pieces together in life cycle and together. And, you know, we see instances all the time where an issue with Cooper Netease requires, you know, a change analytics. And so being able to life cycle in together, I think we can really put out a platform where we literally now we're saying in the platform you're getting the benefits of millions of people working on overtime on Lenox with tens of thousands people working on Cooper, Netease and the Learnings are all been kind of wrapping back into a platform. So our ability to do that is it kind of open source continues to move up. The stack is really, really exciting. >> Now. You were talking about transformative technologies on DH. How great it is to be a part of that right now. You alluded to that last night in the keynote. So you're talking about this, You know your history lessons. You know how much you love doing that? Your ki notes and you know, the scientific method Industrial Revolution open source. Just without asking you to re can you are a recount. All that. Just give us an idea about how those air philosophically aligned it. How you think those air open source follows that lineage, if you will, where it is fundamentally changing the world. It is a true global game change. Yeah, And >> so the point last night was a really kind of illustrate how a change in thinking can fundamentally change the world we live in. And so what I talked about just kind of quickly is so the scientific method developed and kind of the fifteen hundreds ish time frame was a different way to discover knowledge. So it goes from kind of dictates coming down from, you know, on high, too. Very simple hypothesis, experiment, observation of the results of the things that go through that process and stand the test of time and become what we consider knowledge right? And that change lead immediately to an explosion of innovation, whether that with the underpinnings of the industrial revolution or enlightenment, what we've done in medicine, whole bunch of areas. And yeah, the analogy I came to was around well, the old way we just try to innovate constrains us in a more open approach is a fundamentally better way to innovate. But what I found so interesting in and I think you picked up on it if it didn't emphasize this much, wanted to excite and having a lot of time, its many of the same characteristics of scientific discovery. So the idea of you know, independence anybody could actually do this pinpoints the importance of experimentation and learning those Air Corps components of, you know, tef ops and agile and open source, right? It's very, uh, in the end, the characteristics are actually quite similar as well. I think that's just fascinating to see happen. >> So e think about that. And if you could bring it back to the customers you're talking to, you have a lot of executive conversation, said You focus a lot on the how is really challenging. We understand. You know, the organizational structure of most companies goes back over a hundred years to military. So you know, what you see is some of the one of the biggest challenges that, you know, executive thieves we're facing these days. And, you know, how are they getting past that? Stuck? >> Yeah. And so, you know, I think the simple is way to state. The problem, which I hear over and over again, is we tried an agile transformation, and it failed because our culture was already and cultures Mohr of, ah always tell the executor when they said to me, It's like, Okay, but recognized cultures and output, not an input. And it's an output of leadership behaviors, beliefs, values what's been rewarded over time. So if you want your culture to change, actually to think about changing the way that you lied and manage and broadly, the structures, the hierarchies, the bureaucratic systems that we have in place today are really good at driving efficiency in a static environment. So if you're trying to slightly take a little bit of cost out building a car, you start with what you did last year. You get a bunch of scientists are consultants to look at it, and then you direct some fairly small changes. So the structure were in places other wrong with them. When value creation was about standardization of economies of scale. The hierarchies work really, really well to distribute tasks and allow specialization and optimization. The problem is now most value creation. It's requiring innovation. It's how doe I innovate and how I engage with my customer. You know the example I used a couple years ago? Its summit was, you know, the average cars use ninety minutes today. So if you think about how to reduce the cost of transfer port ation, is it taking two percent out of the cost of building a car? Or is it figuring out whether it's ride sharing or other ways? Teo. A fractional ownership. Whether it is to increase the average utilization of the car, it's clearly the ladder. But you can't do that in about bureaucratic hierarchical system that requires creativity and innovation, and the model to do that requires injecting variants in. That's what allows innovation to happen. So as leaders, you have to show up and say, all right, how do I encourage descent, you know, how do I accept failure? Right. So this idea of somebody tries something and it fails. If you fire him, nobody's gonna try anything again. But experimentation by definition requires a lot of failures and how you learn from it. So how do you build that into the culture where as executives you say holding people accountable doesn't mean, you know, firing him or beating him up. If they make a mistake, it's how do I encourage the right level of risk taking in mistakes, you know, even down to the soft side. So you know, how do you hold somebody accountable in an agile scrum, right. Your leaders have to be mature enough to sit down, have a conversation. Not around here. The five things you were supposed to do and you did forum. So you get in eighty right now, you can't say exactly what they need to do because it's a little blurry. So you have to have leaders mature enough to sit down and have a conversation with somebody is I think you got an eighty. Thank you. Got an eighty because here's what you did well, and here's what you didn't. But it's subjective. And how do you build that skill and leaders? They oughta have those subjective conversations, right? That sounds really, really soft, but it's not gonna work if you don't have leaders who can do that right? And so that's why it's hard. Because, you know, changing peep people is hard. And so that's why I think so. Many CEOs and executives want to talk about it. But that's what I mean by it's a soft side. And how do you get that type of change to happen? Because if you do that, pick ours honestly, pick somebody else's, you know, agile Davis with methodologies. They'LL work if you have a culture, this accepting of it >> before they let you go. There were two things to our quick observations about last night. Number one rule Samant hitch up on the licensing, so I know you've got your hands full on that. Good luck with that. You mentioned licensing a little bit ago, and I learned that thirty four billion dollars is a good deal. Well, right, that's what you said I heard it from are absolutely well. Things >> were a separate entity. We don't have licenses. So I don't know how we would go into an l A >> given. We don't have a license to sell. So got some expectations setting >> we need to do with our customers and then, you know, but separately, You know, I think people do forget that Red Hat is a not only a really fast growing company were also really profitable company. Most of the other software companies that are growing at our pace on a gap basis makes little to no money. We have because we get the leverage of open source, we actually generate a very large amount of free cash flow. And if you actually not to get the details of the financials. But we look at our free cash flow generation in our growth, I would argue, was a smoking good deal. That thirty four. I was asking for a lot more than that. >> You could had smoking good the last night that was gonna work to give thanks for the time. >> It's great to be here. >> Thank you. Thank you for hosting us here. Great opportunities on this show for I know that's exciting to see two but continued success. We wish you all >> thanks. So much. Thank you for being here. It's great to have you, >> Jim. White House joining us back with more live coverage here on the Cube. You are watching our coverage here in Boston of Red Hat Some twenty nineteen. Well,

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen lots. You buy bread >> and good morning. Welcome to Beantown, Boston, Massachusetts to Mina Mons Hometown by the police Town of residents. John Wallis was stupid from here on the Q. Bert had summit and stew for you. Good to see you here. And a home game. >> Yeah, John, Thanks so much. Nice. You know, Boston, The Cube loves Boston. The B C E C is actually where the first cube event was way back in twenty ten. And we wish there were more conferences here in Boston. Gorgeous weather here in the spring. Ah, little chilly at night with the wind coming off the water, but really good. Here is the sixth year we've had the Cube here, right? Had some in my fifth year at the show. Great energy. And, you know, thirty four billion reasons why people are spending a lot of time keeping a close eye on. Let's just know. Yeah, >> jump right in thirty four billion dollar deal. I am red hatt gotta prove by doj uh, here in the States. But there's still some hurdles that they have to get over in order for that to come to fruition, Maybe later this year. That's the expectation. But just your thoughts right now about about that synergy about that opportunity that that we think is about to have. >> Yeah, so? So right, let's get this piece out of the way. Because here at the conference, we're talking about Red Hat. The acquisition has not completed. So while the CEO of IBM you know Jenny will be up on stage tonight along with, you know, Jim White Hirsi over at Hat and Sakina della, you know, flying in from Seattle, where you might get your name yesterday. So you know, at least two of those three your Cuba Lem's. So we'LL get Jenny on one of these days. But, you know, this is a big acquisition, the largest software acquisition ever, and third largest acquisition in tech history. Now we watched the first biggest tech acquisition in history, which was Del buying AMC just a couple of years ago. And this is not the normal. Okay? Hey, we announced it and you know, it closed quietly in a few months. So as you mentioned, DOJ approved it. There's a few more government agencies Europe needs to go through. You never know what China might ask to come in here, but, you know, really, at the core if you look at it, you know, IBM and Red Hat have worked together for decades. You know, we wrote a lot about this when the announcement happened. You know, IBM is no stranger to open source. IBM is no stranger to the clinics and the areas where Red Hat has been growing and expanded too. You see, IBM, they're so communities, you know, super hot space. If you look, you know, Red hat is they're they're open shift platform, which is what Red Hat does for cloud. Native Development has over a thousand customers. They're adding between one hundred one hundred fifty a quarter is what they talk about publicly. We're gonna have some of those customers on this week. So huge area. That multi cloud hybrid cloud world absolutely is where it's at. We did four days of broadcast from IBM. Think earlier this year in San Francisco. And, you know, once again, Jim white hairs and Jenny were on stage together. They're talking about where they've been working together for a long time. and just, you know, some things will change, but from IBM standpoint, they said, Look, you know, the day after this closes, you know, Red Hat doesn't go away. That had just announced new branding, and everybody's like, Well, why are they changing their branding? You know, when you know IBM is taking over and the answer was, Look, Red Hat's going to stay as a standalone entity. IBM says they're not going to have a single lay off, not even HR consolidation, at least in the beginning. We understand, you know, give me your stuff to work out some of these pieces, but there are ears. They will work together. I look at it. John is like the core. What is the biggest piece of IBM's business is services. That Army of services, both from IBM and all of their Esai partners and everybody they worked with Khun really supercharge and help scale some of the environment that red hats doing so really interesting. Expect them to talk a little bit about it. Red hat is way more transparent than your average company. They had an analyst event like a week or two after it happened, and I was really surprised how much they would tell us and that we could talk about publicly. As I said, just cause I've seen so many acquisitions happen, including some you know, mega ones in the past. And we know how little usually you talk about until it it's done and it's signed. And, you know, the bankers and lawyers have been paid all their fees. >> Let me ask you, you raise an interesting point. Um, you know that there are some different approaches, obviously, between IBM redhead, just in terms of their institutional legacies in terms of processes. Red hat. You mentioned very transparent organization. Open source. Right. So we're all about the rebrand. They come out, you know, the drop shadow, man, They got the hat. What's that cultural mix going to be like? Can they truly run independently? Yeah, they're a big piece. So And if your IBM can you let that run on its own? >> So, John, that is the question most of us have. So, you know, I've worked with Red Hat for coming up on twenty years now, you know, Remember when Lennox was just this mess of colonel dot organ. So much changes that red hat came and gave, you know, adult supervision to help move that forward on. The thing I I wrote about is what Red Hat is really, really good at. If you look at the core, there do is managing that chaos and change on the industry. If you look how many changes happen, toe Lennox, you know every you know, day, week, month and they package all that together and they test all that same thing in Kou Burnett is the same thing in so many different spaces where that open source world is just frenetic and changing. So they're really geared for today's industry. You talk what's the only constant in our industry? John is it is changed. IBM, on the other hand, is like, you know, over one hundred years old, and I tried and true, you know, Big Blue. You know, I ibm is this, you know, the big tanker, you know, it's not like they turn on a dime and you know, rapid pace of change. You think of IBM, you think of innovation. You think of, you know, trust. You think of all the innovations that have come out over the century. Plus do there and absolutely there is a little bit of impeded mismatch there and we'LL see So if ibm Khun truly let them do their own thing and not kind of merged suit groups and take over where the inertia of a larger group can slow things down I hope it will be successful But they're definitely our concerns And time will tell we'll see But you know analytics front You know, they just announced this morning Rehl eight Red hat enterprise linen, you know, just got announced and definitely something will be spent a lot of time So >> let's just jump in a relative Look again, We're gonna hear a little bit later on. We have several folks coming on board to talk aboutthe availability. Now what? What do you see from the outside? Looking at that. What is it going to allow you or us to do that? Seven Didn't know. Where did they improve? Is that on the automation side? Is it being maybe more attentive, Teo Hybrid environment or just What is it about? Really? That makes that special? >> Yes. So you know, first of all, you know these things take a while in the nice thing about being open sources. We've had transparency. If you wanted to know it was going to be in relate. You just look in the Colonel and and it's all out there. They've been working on this since twenty thirteen. Well, seven came out back in June of twenty fourteen. This has been a number of years in the mix. You know, security. The new, like crypto policy is a big piece that that's in their thie bullets that I got when I got the pre briefing on, It was, you know, faster and easier Deploy faster on boarding for non lennox users on, you know, seamless nondestructive migration from earlier versions of rail. So that's one of the things they really want to focus on is that it needs to be predictable, and I need to be able to move from one version the other. If you look at the cloud world, you know, when you don't go asking customers say, Hey, what version of Azure a ws are you running on your running on the latest and greatest? But if you look at traditional shrink wrap software, it was well, what virginity running? Well, I'm running in minus two and Why is that? Because I have to get it. I have to test it out. And then I, you know, find a time that I'm gonna roll that out, work it in my environment. So there is stability and understanding of the release cycle. My understanding is that they're going to do major releases every three years and minor releases every six months. So that cadence a little bit more like the cloud. And as I said, getting from one version a rail to the next should be easier and more non disruptive. Ah, a lot of people are going to want manage offerings where they don't really think about this. I have the latest version because that has not just the latest features but the latest security setting, which, of course, is a major piece of my infrastructure today to make sure that if there was some vulnerability released, I can't wait, You know, six or nine months for me to bake that in there. The limits community's always good have done a good job of getting fixes into it. But how fast can I roll that out into my environment is >> something I would assume that's that's a major factor in any consideration right now is is on the security front, because every day we hear about one more problem and these are just small little issues. These these air are could be multi billion dollar problems. But in terms of making products available today, how Muchmore important? How's that security shift? If you could put a percentage on it used to be, you know, axe and now it's X plus. I mean I mean, what kind of considerations are being given? >> You know what I'd say? Used to be that security got great lip service A. Said it was usually top of mind, but often towards bottom of budget. When you talk to administrators and you say, Oh, hey, where's your last security initiative? And that, like I've had that thing sitting on my desk for the last six months and I haven't had a chance to roll that out. I will get to it, but I want to again. If you go to that cloud operating model. If you talk about you know Dev, Ops movement is, I need to bake security into the process. If I'm doing C i D. It's not, I do something and then think about security afterwards. Security needs to be built in from the ground level. A CZ. You know, I I've heard people in the industry. Security is everyone's responsibility, and security must be baked in everywhere. So from the application all the way down to the chipset, we need to be thinking about security along the bar. Mind it is a board level discussion. Any user you talk too, you know, you don't say, Hey, where's the security sitting? Your priorities. You know, it's up there towards the top, if not vey top, because that's the thing that could put us out of business or, you know, definitely ruin careers. If if it doesn't go >> right, so there are there are probably a couple of platforms, every will or pillars. I think you like to call them that. You're looking forward to learning more about this week. I think in terms of red hats work one of those green hybrid cloud infrastructure, and we'LL get to the other to a little bit. But just your thoughts about how they're addressing that with the products that they offered the services they offer and where they're going in that >> Yeah, so look everything for red at start with rail. Everything is built on Lenox, and that's a good thing, because Lennox Endeavor is everywhere. If last year is that Microsoft ignite for the first time. And when you hear them talking a Microsoft talking about how Lennox is the majority of the environment, more than fifty percent of the environment are running linen goto a ws Same thing. All the cloud deployment Lennox is the preferred substrate underneath and Rehl doing very well to live in all those environment. So what we look at is, you know, some people say, is this olynyk show. It's like, well, at the core. Lin IX is the piece of it and relate the latest and greatest substantiation. But everywhere you go, there's going to be Lennox there from doing container ization. If a building on top of it with the the new cloud native models, it's there. And if you talk about how I get from my data center to a multi cloud environment, it's building things like Cooper Netease, which read that of course, uses open shift and you know those ties to eight of us and azure and you know, Google they're all there. So we mention Santina della's on stage tonight at Microsoft build. Yesterday there was announcement of this thing called Kita ke e d A, which has, like as your functions and ties in with open shift and spend a little time squinting it, trying to tease it apart. We've got some guests this week that'LL hopefully give some clarity, but it is. The answer is people today have multiple clouds and they have a lot of different ways they want. They want to do things, and Red has going to make sure that they help bridge the gap and simplify those environments across the board. Two years ago, when we were at the show big announcement about how open shift integrates with a W s so that if I'm using a ws But I want to have things in my environment still leverage some of those services. That was something that that Red had announced. I was, you know, quite impressed a time it was, you know, just last week being at the Del Show, it's V m. Where is the del strategy for how they get you know, A W, S, G, C, P and Azure and, you know, Red Hat does that themselves. Their software company. They live in all these cloud worlds, and therefore, open shift will help you extend from your data center through all of those public cloud environments on DH, you know? Yeah. So it's fascinating >> you've talked about Lennox to we're going to hear a little bit later on to about a fascinating the global economic study, that Red Hat Commission with the I. D. C. Of that talks about this ten trillion dollar impact of Lennox around the globe like to dive into that a little bit later on. >> Yeah, well, it's interesting, you know, it's the line I used is you say, and you say, Oh, well, how much impact is Lennox had? You know? You know, Red hats now, a three billion dollar company. That's good. But I was like, Okay, let's just take Google. You know, no slots of a company. Google underneath. It's not Red Hat Lennox, but Lennox is the foundation. I don't really think that Google could become the global search and advertising powerhouse they were. If it wasn't for Lennox to be able to help them get environment, there's a CZ we always talk with these technologies. You talk about Lennox, you talk about How do you talk about, you know, Cooper Netease? There are companies that will monetize it, but the real value is what business models and creation by. You know, all the enterprise is the service riders in the hyper scales that those technologies help enable. And that's where open source really shines is, you know, the order of magnitude network effect, that open source solutions have that its you say okay, three billion dollars? And is that what ten trillion dollars? It doesn't faze me, doesn't surprise me at all, but because my attention it look it. I'm not trying to trivialize. There's no But, you know, I've been watching clinics for twenty years, and I've seen the ripples of that effect. And if you dig down underneath your often finding it inside, >> I mentioned pillars that you were talking about cloud native development being another. But automation, let's just hit on that real quick before we head off on DH just again, with how that is being, I guess, highlighted. Or that's a central focus at and relate and and what automation? How that's playing in there I guess the new efficiencies they're trying to squeeze out. >> Yes. So? So what we always looked for it shows you're probably the last year is you know, you. How are they getting beyond the buzzwords? Aye, aye. When you talk about automation on area that that we've really enjoyed digging into is like robotic process automation. How do I take something that was manual? And maybe it was a fish injure? Not great. How can I make it perfectly efficient and use software robots to do that? So where are the places where I know that the amount of change and the scale and the growth that we have that I couldn't just put somebody to keyboard, you know, and have them typing or even a dashboard to be able to monitor and keep up with things? If I don't have the automation and intelligence in the system to manage things, I can't reach the scale and the growth that I need to. So where are you know, real solutions that are helping customers, you know, get over a little bit of the fear of Oh, my gosh, I'm losing a job. Or will this work or will this keep my business running and oh, my gosh, this will actually enabled me to be able to grow work on that security issue if I need to, rather than some of the other pieces and help really allow it agility to meet the requirements of what the business requires to help me move forward. So those are some of the things we kind of look across the shows. So, you know? Yeah. How much do we get? You know, buzzword, Bingo at the show. Where How much do we hear? You know, real customers with real solutions digging in and having, you know, new technologies that a couple of years ago would have had a saying, Wow, that's magic. >> But you say, Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and I don't want gosh right back with more. You're watching to serve the cube with the red had summit. We're in Boston, Massachusetts, that we'll be back with more coverage right after this

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Run. Welcome back to the Cubes live coverage here in San Francisco. Mosconi North while you're here as part of our exclusive covers. The Cube for IBM think twenty nineteen, their annual conference of customers and employees coming together to set the agenda for the next year. For IBM and its ecosystem. I'm John for a student. Um, in day. Volonte and Lisa Martin co hosting all week This week. Four days of wall to wall coverage. Day two of our kind Really Day one of the show Kickoff. We're here ending out that day and just had the CEO's keynote, and we're going to a review and analysis. David's do. We had a lot of interviews. Coming up to this theme is pretty clear. It's a I cloud and everything else going underneath that classic development application. Developers, developers in general, making applications That's classic, but eyes the big story. And, like like Always Cloud and the promise of Where That's Going, which is hybrid and multi cloud Dave, You set on the keynote. Any surprises from Ginny Rometty? >> I wouldn't say there were any surprises. First of all, I like Jenny. I think she she's a great presenter. I'd like to hang out with their like we were kids. That was what I wanted to hang out with us. He's a time person. I think I would feel comfortable talking to, you know, sports or business. She looked good. She had a really nice, sharp white suit on. She's self deprecating. She was drinking Starbucks. You know, they're obviously a client of IBM. I got the best moment was when Jim White hearse came on stage. He said, It's great to be here So he was like, Yeah, given thirty four billion reasons why it's great to be here kind of thing, So that was pretty funny. And she had. She made the comment. We've been dating Red Hat for twenty years before we decided to get married. She was trying to make a case You normally in Jenny's presentation, she she makes a really solid, puts forth the solid premise and then sort of backs it up with her guests. Today, I thought her premise, which was we're entering Chapter two. It's all about scaling and embedding a I everywhere. It's about hybrid. It's about bringing mission critical APS, you know, move those forward. And she had a number of other lessons learned. I thought she laid it out, but I think it sort of missed the back end. I don't think they punctuated the tail end of Jenny's talk. The guests were great and they had guys on from Kaiser Permanente E. T. And they were very solid. Well, think they made the case as strong as the premises that she put forward. And you know, we could talk more about that. >> And Stewart see red hat on stage. We've been commenting. We've been analyzing the acquisition of Red Hat, big number, thirty four billion dollars critical point you guys talk about in your opening on day one, the leverage they need to get out of that. This is the Alamo for them with the cloud. In my opinion, IBM is a lot to bring to the bear in the cloud. They I anywhere telegraphs that they wanna have their stuff with containers and multiple clouds. They want to be positioned as a multi cloud company but still have their cloud, providing the power for the workload. That makes sense, right? Bm. This is their last stand. This is like, you know, the Alamo for them. They They need to make cloud work right now. Watson, move from a product or brand ballistically open step. Is it tied together? Stew your thoughts on open stack and how this fits into their narrative. >> So I think you mean open shift, right, John s o from red hat standpoint. Absolutely what they're doing. They are involved in open stack, but open stack. You got a small, >> but they're one of the few that are sanguine on Open, Zachary read. >> I mean, read had open shift. My bad >> way it absolutely. And it is complicated in the multi cloud world and lots of different pieces. We've had a number of conversations with the IBM people that have worked with side by side, red hat in the open source communities, IBM, no stranger to open source and a CZ we talked about in our open on yesterday. It's the developers is really what where IBM needs to go and where Red Hat has a bevy of them on DH John. What you said about Multi Cloud? Absolutely. It's if IBM thinks that buying Red hat will make them the Goebel Global player in Cloud. I think that's wrong, and I don't think that's what they're doing. When I wrote a block post when it came, and I said, Is this move going to radically change the cloud landscape? No. Can this acquisition radically change IBM and change the trajectory of where they fit into Multi cloud? Absolutely. So there's cultural differences. We had Ah, Stephanie sheriffs on who's a longtime IBM er who now runs the biggest business inside of Red Hat. And she talked about the passion of open source. This is not lip service. I've many friends that have worked for it. Had I've, you know, worked with them, partner with them and cover them for most of those twenty years on DH? Absolutely. You've got over ten thousand people that are passionate involved in communities on DH. When you talk about the developer world, you talk about the cloud native world. This is what you know. Really. Red Hat moment has been waiting. >> It was interesting. John and I would like one if you could comment on this is you hearing IBM? Jenny talked about Chapter two. She took a digital reinvention. Here's yet another company using the reinvent terminology. I think that's what sort of pointed she talked. About forty percent of the world is going to be private. Sixty percent is going to be public Cloud. The sort of that's the first time I've heard those that she said It's flipped if you're ah, regulated industry. But what do your thoughts on people essentially using and Amazons narrative on reinvention? >> Everyone's using Amazons narrative. Here's the bottom line. Amazon is winning impact large margins. I think the numbers airway skewed in the favor of the people trying to catch up. I think that's more of a game. If vacation by the analyst firms, Amazon is absolutely blowing away the competition when it comes to public loud. The only game at the table right now for the Oracle's, IBM, Sze and Microsoft and Google is the slow down the adoption of Amazon. And you see the cloud adoption of Amazon, whether it's in the government sector, which I think is more acute. And Mohr illustrative, the Jet I contract a ten billion dollar contract. That is a quote sole source deal. But it was bid as a multi source deal means anyone could bid on it. Well, guess what? That is a going to be an award and probably to Amazon as the sole winner because IBM doesn't have the certification. Nor does Microsoft notice Oracle. Nobody's got Amazons winning that, and that begs the argument. Can you use one cloud? And the answer is Yes, you can. If the APP worked, Load works best for it, and procurement does not decide output for the cloud. For example, if it's a Jet I contract, it's a military application. So, like a video game, would you want to play a video game and be lagging? Would you want our military to be lagging? Certainly, the D O d. Says no. So one cloud makes sense. If you're running office three sixty five, you want to use azure. So Microsoft has taken that, and their earnings have been phenomenal by specialising around their workloads. That makes sense for Azure, and they're catching up. IBM has an opportunity to do the same for their workload. The business workload. So aye, aye, anywhere is interesting to me. So I think this is a good bet. If they can pull it off, that's the strategy, and the world will go multi cloud, where certain clouds will be sold for the apple sole source for the workloads. That makes sense for those workload. So this is where the market's going, right? So this whole notion of there won't be multi class. It's going to be multi cloud and it's gonna winner, winner take most. And the game right now is to stop ama's. That is clearly the case, and you're seeing it in the bids you see in the customer base. And IBM is catching Oppa's fast as they can. They got the people and the technology. The question is, how much do they catch up and level up? Tamas on? >> Well, stew despite Jenny, you know, invoking the reinvent terminology, they're her. Kino was starkly different than what you would expect from an Amazon Kino. They may. She mentioned a couple of the announcements, Watson anywhere, which, by the way, is about time. It's about time that Watson ran on other people's clouds of it, which should have been a while ago and in hyper protect is the world's most secure cloud. But we don't have any really details on that. And then I'd be in business automation with Watson, and that was really it. I think it was by design not to give a big product pitch, you know, very non Steve jobs. Like very done, Andy Jazzy like which is all product product product. I mean, kind of surprising in a big show with all these customers. You think they'd be pitching, but I think their intent was to really be more content. Orient >> Well, So Dave, you know, goes back at the core. What is IBM's biggest business? IBM biggest businesses. So services. So I've done a number of interviews this week already talking about how IBM is helping with digital transformation, how they're helping people move to more agile and development for environments. You know, the multi cloud world. How do they know IBM has a long history with C. S, P s and M s peace? So they have large constituencies And sure, they have products. You know, great stuff talking about, You know, how do they have the best infrastructure to run your workloads and the strength that they haven't supercomputing in HPC. And how they can leverage that? Because IBM knows a thing or two about scale. But, you know, Dave, one of the questions I have for you is we've seen the big services organizations go through radical downsizing. You know, HP spun off their business. Del got rid of the Perot business. You know, IBM still is, you know, services. At its core, it is IBM built for the multi cloud cloud native. You know, Ai ai world, Or do they still need to go through some massive changes? >> Well, multi Cloud is complicated and complex. IBM does complicated services, you know, deal with complexity, but I still can't help but feel like, >> Well, I well, I thought, wouldn't comment on them. I think the services. If the Manual Services Professional Services dropped down, IBM has a great opportunity to move them to cloud based services, meaning I can write software. And this is where I think they have an advantage. They could really nail the business applications, which will become services, whether its domain expertise in a vertical. And I think this is their cloud opportunity. IBM could capture that they could take entirely new category of applications. Business applications and services, automate them with machine learning, automate them with cloud scale their cloud scale while making them portable on multiple clouds. So the notion of services will be the professional services classic your grandfather's services, too. Cloud based services at scale. >> Yeah, well, I think you're right. Look, that's one. IBM is biggest strengths, and Jenny did that acquisition. By the way. The PwC acquisition is one hundred thousand. People instantly brought IBM into that deep vertical industry expertise, and they're not going to give that up any time soon. And this so many opportunities to code. If I those services or that song you know, through software and make them repeatable services, I mean, they're at as a service. Business is one of the fastest growing parts of IBM, you know, revenue stream. So I don't see that going. Wait. All I do think there was a missed opportunity and maybe they can't talk about it for was some regulatory reason. They're just paranoid. But you had white hearse up on the stage. You just spent thirty four billion dollars. I would have liked to hurt Mohr about the rationale, even though we've heard it before. They did. You know, Jim and Jeannie did a tour there on all the big TV shows You're on Kramer. But I would have liked to heard sort of six months on what that rationale is and how they're going to help transform with this in this new chapter and what that role that red hat was going play, I thought it was a missed opportunity. >> Well, speculate on that. I think of things. Probably. They probably don't have their answer yet. IBM is very good on messaging. You know, they're pretty tight, but I think Arvin Krishna talked to assert this morning. On our first interview. He brought up the container ization and Coburn Eddie's trend. I think that's where red hat fits and melons and give them cloud Native developers in Enterprise Fortune one thousand. They also got the cloud native ecosystem behind that the C in C F etcetera. But Containers does for Legacy Container ization, and Cooper daddies really preserves legacy. It allows developers to essentially keep the old while bringing in the new and managing the life cycle of those applications, not a ribbon replace. This is an opportunity for IBM, and if I think the messaging folks and the product dies or probably figure out okay, how do we take the red hat and open shift and be cloud native and take all the goodness that comes in with cloud Native the new developers, the Devil Infrastructures code, make under the covers infrastructure programmable and is Rob Thomas pointed out, having horizontal data layer that enables new kinds of business services. So to me, container ization, it's kind of nerdy Cooper netease. But this is really a new linchpin to what could be a sea change for IBM in terms of revenue. Keeping the Legacy customs happy because then the pressure to move to Amazon goes away because I can say, Whoa, wait. If the question is, why adopt if customs have an answer for that that gives IBM time, This is what they want otherwise, cloud native worlds could move very, very fast. We've seen the velocity of the momentum, and I think that's a key move. >> I think your point about slowing down the Amazon momentum is a good one, and I want to talk about five things that Ginny said that lessons learned, she said. One. You can approach the world from outside in and focus on customer experience. Or you could do inside out, identify new ways to work and new work flows, you know, kind of driving change. The third lesson learned was You need a business platform fueled by data with invented A I. The fourth is you need an ai ai platform. And in the fifth is Rob Thomas is you can't have a eye without a word that you needed information, architecture, which, by the way, I believe it to be true. So those are business oriented discussions. It's not something that you necessarily here from Amazon there kind of chewy. There's the services component to all that. The big question I have is Well, Watson, be that ai ai platform. >> Yeah, I mean something, You know, I look at is why Doe I choose a platform and a partner. So we understand Amazon, you know, they want to be the leader and everything. They have a lot more services in anyone. But, you know, if I want data services, first cloud that comes to mind to me is Google. You know, Google has a real strength there, You know. Where does IBM have a leadership compared to Google business productivity? IBM has a lot of strength there, but Microsoft also has a place so you know, customers. If they're going to live, Multi cloud, they're going Teo in many ways go backto best of breed on DH. Therefore, where will IBM differentiate themselves from some of those? >> We have visibility down. It's clear now that the industry the fog is lifting, starting to see Cem clear lines of sight and a few major trends. And it's pretty clear on where the industry's going for the next ten years. Application developers at the top of the stack gonna build APS The infrastructures cloud cloud something multi cloud cloud, native infrastructures, code and data. And a I see that Amazon reinvent sage maker. You're seeing all the major innovations happening around APS using data power advice, cloud scale, that's it. Everything else to me is glue or some sort of fabric component. Or a piece of that distributed architecture and its cloud. Aye, aye, and an apple. >> A CZ. Dave is often said, it's the innovation sandwich of today. >> Yeah, well, so I guess the things I want to mention it because of me. There's been some high profile failed failures with Watson, But watching was trying to do some things that were not, you know, voice response to Alexa, you know, solve cancer, you know, world problems and so I think IBM is actually earned the right to be in the discussion, and the Red had acquisition gives IBM instant credibility in this game, especially in this a multi cloud game. >> Well, they got me. They have the right to be the zillions of customers. They have a lot of a lot of business model innovations with that that their customers are innovating on. And if they keep the cloud innovate, they gotta match the specs. Specs of the cloud. They gotta be there with Cloud. If they don't make the cloud work, they're going to be subservient to the other clouds. They have to make it in the top three. This is clear. Hey, I think I think we're working a lot of experience and data. I think Watson kind of finding his home is a brand's natural fit. Got a portfolio of data? I think IBM will do very well in the data front. It's the cloud game that they got a really sure up. They got to make sure that IBM cloud conserved. They're custom, >> but the good news is there is there. In the game we saw HPD tried to get into HPD, tried to get the cloud it failed. Cisco, for a while, was trying to get with Sawyer. AMC make of numerous attempts. VM were made, made numerous attempts. IBM spent two billion dollars in software. They they they've got a cloud. You know, they've transformed what was essentially a bare metal hosting platform, you know, into a cloud. They've jammed all there as a service products in there. They're SAS portfolio. So there, at least in the game and, you know, again, I've said often, I think they're very Oracle like it's not the biggest cloud. It's not going to scale to the Amazon levels, but they've got a cloud, and it's a key part of the strategy. >> Innovation Sandwich applications Cloud What data? In the middle of a I. That's the formula, David said on the Q beer. All right day to coverage for the Cuba. Four days were here in the lobby of Mosconi North, part of the new refurbished Mosconi Center in San Francisco. Howard Street's closed. It feels like Salesforce. Dreamforce event. Big event in San Francisco. I'm John First Amendment Dave along. They were here for four days Day, two of four days of coverage for IBM think back tomorrow. Thanks for watching.

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco with the cube cube coverage of red hat summit 2018 and Moscone West in San Francisco I'm John for a co-host of the Q with my co-host this week analyst John Troyer who's the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Mike Farris is the vice president of business development at Red Hat and its architecture business architecture sitting the table doing all the deals welcome back to the cube great to see you great to be here happy to come on so red hat has always played the long game in its business you got a very community focused us you got a lot of data in front of you you got a lot of customers but now the industry deals are forming IBM deal you guys announced here and Microsoft two notables really kind of are a telltale sign of what's to come what does it mean you had two big enterprise players getting behind openshift and Red Hat what's the name so you know it means coming of age of both containers and industry standards around this and so similar to what we did with Red Hat Enterprise Linux it what started at the edge of network computing and gradually through relationship with IBM Dell HP became the standard hardware enabler applications then came on board with partners like Oracle and others going through sa P and the like now we're seeing the same thing happen in the container space where now that kubernetes has been established as the orchestration standard in the industry Red Hat has made the bet adopted on that and now starting to see the fruition of people standardizing around that the major players the cloud providers from IBM Microsoft and and applications are sitting on top of that are starting to see this as the platform that they wanted to play on and just to kind of point out just because yeah you mentioned kubernetes you guys weren't johnny-come-lately on kubernetes either you guys made the investment years ago including tsakuba you saw containers so you're it wasn't like whoo it's like yesterday it developed nicely for you I mean our open shift was actually launched in 2011 and then in 2013 we made the switch to kubernetes and made the bet on it as being the orchestration standard and you know as you saw Red Hat do with KVM and the hypervisor space you know designing everything around a standard that we could support for in the case of Linux up to ten years you know we're doing the same type of thing and making the platform the focus not the individual technology so applications that are developed ISVs that are focused with those customers on deploying those and now with major partners like IBM and Microsoft saying this is the thing that is going to live and breathe in your enterprise as you take existing applications moving them into the cloud native and space as well as also when you start building new applications on it on a fresh platform you've got you have business architecture in your title I want to talk about business architecture because with cloud scale business logic is where the innovation is and then using technology to scale that but you also have it's not always the best technology sometimes that makes the fit it could be the right technology at the right time and Jim White has mentioned that earlier in his interview today business architecture is about the win-win scenarios and open source as well as the commercialization piece can you comment on the preferred architecture of folks who want to go to the cloud and take advantage of the of the transformation happening how should they architect their business how should they think holistically around putting the pieces together whether it's vendor relationships rolling out and hiring new developers and moving to a cloud native cloud scale while preserving their existing investments so just like when we started with Linux and Red Hat Enterprise Linux in 2002 the focus has been on making sure that customers have choice as they do this and and you know it's the platform that matters and making sure that you have the scalable secure environment that you can run across these and so taking that choice theme on a standardized platform and about starting to be able to say regardless of what application you have where you need to be run or what services you need to plug in you need to make sure those are available everywhere so when when we talk to architects and business architects that are looking at pricing models and mechanisms these two things are now forefront in their design architectures when they start sitting down and so you know our focus has been how do we enable this common platform starting with Red Hat Enterprise Linux and open shift across every major cloud provider in the world and on-premise as those models start to change and so one of the announcements that we made was we're gonna be supporting open shift on Azure stack you know this opens up choice for those customers be able to say regardless from on-premise on a Red Hat OpenStack environment or a Azure stack environment or off-premise at major providers like IBM cloud and Microsoft Azure now being able to say that I've got the support across these architectures and the multiple business models that I want to be able to purchase that allow me to enter into this space like I want to drill down in that at the Microsoft announcement okay it's cuz it's multifaceted right it's not just like you can run you could run OpenShift on Azure stack on pram if you wanted to right it's it's it's it's a managed service on Asscher itself it's also integrated into some of their offerings like the now sequel server will be a Red Hat certified container as well as being a container over on their side and they're building it into their uh their dev programs and dev tools right but you'll get you get you get Red Hat credits as well if you're if you're sitting there in with the Microsoft toolset so can you talk a little bit about you know some of those points of contact maybe expand on the sure absolutely and so I think kind of the core point to recognize is you know for many years now we've been talking about containers as a packaging right well it's actually what's in the container that matters and and so from the perspective of that you know you know the position is I mean containers are Linux and and Linux is Red Hat Enterprise Linux and so when we start talking about this the foundation of this really starts from that angle and so with Microsoft we actually announced last fall that we're gonna do open shift dedicated which is the Red Hat managed service on on Amazon and Google we announced we're going to be taking that to Microsoft Azure as well but in the course of those discussions and sitting down with customers talking to the Microsoft teams you know became readily apparent that if we partnered on this and did something much more aggressive to build a higher value solution for the customer we could actually deliver something that that customer saw is not just a unified approach but actually a Microsoft offering and so what we announced yesterday and what Microsoft jointly announced with us was that that we're announcing the release and and the upcoming release of open shift on Azure which is a jointly managed and operated and supported open shift service it's actually the industry's first jointly managed service on a public cloud and so we look at those customers now can go to Microsoft get a first party offering from them be able to deploy their applications have Microsoft run the infrastructure Red Hat run the open chef platform and have that service role available so they can focus on the applications and not the infrastructure who gets the support on that is the Microsoft leading on the front you guys splitting the duties there yes that working so on the support side in 2015 we announced something called integrated hybrid support with Microsoft we actually had Red Hat associates on site in Redmond working side-by-side with Microsoft support personnel um this extends that but what we're also doing is with the open shift on Azure offering it's actually to be a Microsoft first party product they're gonna be selling in the market we will be selling in the market and so customers can call Microsoft is their first line but if they happen to call Red Hat we've got this back-end infrastructure we know how to escalate we've got joint ticketing systems we know actually how to work on this together so you know it is a combination call it a hybrid support ending the previous model you vets work absolutely not like a branding brand new thing yeah but customers who are you know large-scale as your users today will still call Microsoft and they'll be able to get to the right people through their Microsoft reps so I think one of the impacts what I see I'm gonna get your reaction this is that obviously that multi-cloud has been a big discussion and it's a future stay but that's what everyone wants choice right so they're doing a lot of work on premise and clarifying their architecture this has been a big part of today's world this seems to be a multi cloud opportunity for your customers is that kind of where you see the vein value yeah so you know when we look at the platform we want the platform to be consistent whether it's Red Hat Enterprise Linux and now open chef and have that available in a consistent way in a consistent price point and a consistent value representation to the customers regardless of where they want to go and so you know we've got customers that that will have a primary cloud and on-premise or a primary cloud and a backup and it on-premise and it's very important for their applications for the development life cycles and for their support mechanisms so they have one place to go one place to work with and focus on a singular platform that's why you know we hear us talk about this we're doing the exact same thing we did with Red Enterprise Linux we're not varying the technology we're integrating it deeper and in this case Microsoft very deeply in their infrastructure but providing the same value to customer above the line and then backing it with this jointly operated and managed service from Microsoft and containers has been a great tailwind for your business big time how has OpenShift success change your job in the past year or at all it's made it a lot harder because you know I think the evolution of containers evolution early on of the orchestration space you know people have been asking about alright are you following the community right how close to the Kerman kubernetes latest release are you you know that was a dialogue that we're now evolving in the industry to being how can I get the services that I need how do I get the support that I need and and how do I make sure it actually is secure and that you know when the next major issue comes out that that you know all my containers are up to date and so the complexity is increased from defective of we're no longer talking about certification of an ISV on Red Hat Enterprise Linux which happens to be certified on specific hardware now we're talking about living and breathing container life cycles from ISVs from end customers sitting on a platform that runs across all the public clouds and when the next security issue happens how do we make sure that the is v's containers of the end customers applications that are containers all in Red Hat Enterprise Linux containers that they actually are secure the the moment that that we release the patch across these and that's really the value in getting that across in the industry and be able to say that all of that works in concert with the new business models consumption and other things you know those are the complexities we're having to deal with now definitely a sign of 2018 right in some ways the world has come to red hat right you read has kept it it's open culture and open ethos certainly this is a signal like the new of the new Microsoft right playing with Red Hat Red Hat now also gets to support Windows containers I mean IBM although has been a supporter of open source and Linux and Red Hat for years so it is a I love the new world that a lot of our old assumptions are thrown away right and and and it's about delivering value to customers not necessarily what tribe you're in yeah and you see IBM I mean that has had a long play in the container space means starting with the bluemix environments and kind of moving into the latest thing with with IBM cloud private you know from from our perspective it's this unifying nature that says now that we can actually calm down and talk about what is enterprise need and how long it is and how do we build relationships in with IBM and with Microsoft they can really provide that so the customers can get the services they and the complexity you're talking about on your job is going to be an ecosystem opportunity for you you know making making more people come with it to the table to Red Hat so think you have a great opportunity in the ecosystem as well a final question for you is if someone's watching this video they say hey I want to do a deal with Mike I mean how are you doing deals - how do you evaluate is that a community-driven is it you know organic top down or is there a certain way that people can engage with you and read ad to do a business deal or is it ecosystem trip just take a minute to explain so the first thing we always look at is what are customers asking for and how can this help the community right those are the two things that drive the discussions at the CEO level with these partners that we're dealing with and even emerging markets I mean I sit down with small managed service providers and they want to offer OpenShift services in the same way that they've been doing Red Hat Enterprise Linux services for years and it's it's about the customers that are coming to them saying I see this as the platform I want to modernize my existing applications or start an it cloud native development using these how can we sit down and have the conversation so frankly from our perspective customers are key and so is the community and as long as we can have those two balances with relationships it's great and you mentioned the standardization when you have that kind of momentum and the industry and the communities it's going to enable a lot of opportunities and certainly you guys are doing great job so you've got a lot of we you're a busy guy yep absolutely Mike thanks for grating on the cue sharing your insights business development action going on a red hat big notable deals IBM and Microsoft just one of many that continues to be open doing the all out in the open it's the cube we're out in the open here in the middle of Moscone West I'm John four at John Torrio stay with us for more day two coverage of three days of 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