[Music] hey welcome back everybody Jeff freek here with the cube we're in Reno Nevada at the inner bike show it's a big show all about bikes and mountain bikes but we're really to talk about ebike skuzzy bikes is this new class of really transportation not really new turns out that gazelles been making them since 2002 so we're at the Royal Dutch gazelle event that adjective in next to enter bike and we're excited to see they're releasing a bunch of new bikes and really dig into what are these e bikes all about we've been told that the United States a little bit behind you're starting to see them show up is it a last mile vehicle is it you know a primary vehicle what are the laws and regulations or we're really excited to have our first guest she's been dealing with this for years and years and years it's current wiener she is a co-owner of the new wheel Carn great to see you thanks thanks for having me absolutely so give us a little background on the new wheel where are you guys how long have been around what's your what's your focus yeah and the new wheel is located in San Francisco and Marin County and Larkspur we opened in 2010 so about eight years ago out of our excuse me out of our apartment because we realized that nobody was really seeing the opportunity in this transportation alternative right and so we were seeing what was happening in Europe which like you said has been happening for a while and we realized that gosh San Francisco is the perfect place it's it's an obvious match an electric bike which basically amplifies your pedaling power acts exactly like a bicycle except for you're always in your best shape and having your best day and having the most fun and so um we started with basically one bike who are three bikes and we had a mobile shop that we would ride from farmers market to farmers market then we opened our first store in 2012 and we're still in that location in Bernal Heights in San Francisco and we focus on curating high quality electric bikes that are going to work really well in San Francisco which as you know is a really rugged especially in terms of elevation gain environment right so what if you could talk about some things some miss or not miss so one thing is why we came here is we were really looking at e-bikes is really a last bio vehicle and that's kind of in the in the line of smart cities and in kind of multimodal transportation do you'd have a lime scooter to the Cal train maybe it's your car maybe you've got your own bike but what I'm hearing here is these things are a lot more than last mile vehicles these are actually substitution vehicles for a significant amount of car rides not just the two miles run down to the store to get some milk or to get some cereal or to get some coffee but a much heavier load on these things yeah it's very very interesting so if we look to Europe the ebike started as a replacement for bicycle trips in kind of urban environments for people who are maybe getting older or whatever and the Bison and any bike works really well for just in in turn inner-city transportation there's been an interesting kind of development in Europe in the last say four or five years which is the rise of the speed electric bike you can with a very small battery you can ride 40 to 60 miles 40 to 60 months yeah and that means that you can ride from one city to another so now what we're seeing is a clerk across the Netherlands actual bicycle super highways that cover maybe you know five to 20 miles and that becomes a reasonable bicycle ride on the daily basis and that's really exciting it's something that is unlike basically any other form of transportation it's not a motorcycle it's not that heavy-duty you don't need license or insurance or anything like that you're still getting exercise and you're getting where you need to get right so it's talked about the speed because the speed is interesting thing and I think the speed is what dictates some of the regulation so we see in San Francisco got inundated with the Lyme scooters and there's boosted boards and one wheels and all sorts of kind of contraptions with these great high-capacity batteries and these itty-bitty little little motors so the form factors are numerous but all of them seem to be gated around 20 miles an hour which I think is the regulation to keep them from being considered a scooter you know a internal-combustion scooter so you're talking about speed bikes so they've got bikes here today that goes like 28 miles an hour so how are the regulations keeping up with us a bike that goes 28 miles an hour so it's developing slowly it's developing based on models that have already been tested and used in Europe in California there was actually a model legislation passed I think three years ago which defined three types of electric bikes and defines them as bicycles so type 1 is a bicycle that goes to 20 miles an hour and basically it has to be you have to be pedaling type 2 is a bicycle it also goes to 20 miles an hour but can have a throttle now this is a very Asian type of electric bike it's not quite as polished but usually they're lower-cost okay and then type three is this 27 mile an hour type still a bicycle you're required to wear a helmet and there are some places that you're not allowed to ride them like on shared pedestrian paths right and so what's good about this is it's creating a model for different local and regional governments to create rules it's taking time from but what's exciting is that there is a model so the scooters and the one wheels are all operating under cut-ins this DMV law that is kind of this type of as you describe it is kind of type 1 but it's also kind of skirt like it seems really unclear right I think there's an opportunity and electric bikes for it to be very clear and I think we're on the way to that it's just going to take something right now in terms of the actual utility obviously this is a Dutch company they don't have great weather in Holland as we know San Francisco as you mentioned is a rugged place not to mention the fact it's about as rough as it gets for parked cars getting broken into so what do you see from your customers in terms of the actual utility carrying stuff home from the store survivability in the streets you know not getting stolen inexpensive pieces of gear so what's kind of the experience you've seen with your kind of long history in this space in the city so what I've seen is that what you use matters a lot so the type of bike that you choose out of the gate is going to dictate first of all how well it's going to last and second of all how well it's gonna work in the first place right the other thing is that the way it's not only the bicycle you also have to have the right lock and you have to have the right bag and the right set up to give you the actual full utility potential of the bicycle and that's where you know specialists and retailers really come in you also need service so most people have owned bicycles in their lifetime and it may be stretched one train stretching a chain takes about 2,000 miles on a bike okay an e bike rider usually stretches a train in a little under a year because suddenly your bicycle is your preferred mode of transportation for thousands of miles of errands and and urban duties and and pleasure right that you never had before on a bicycle so it's a switch in terms of how people understand the maintenance that they need on their bike but also what kind of tools they need like a great lock and it turns out that you actually can lock a bike safely not overnight on the street but at any time of day there are locks that work really really well through the bike safe so next day on touch bases kind of the evolving technology yeah so we're hearing over and over that really the the battery technology is getting this just huge boost from autonomous cars because now there's huge investments in battery you've probably seen tremendous developments both in the batteries and the propulsion systems and the technology and these bikes since you've been out that's four for eight years how is that kind of changing and how is that opening up you know maybe the opportunity to people that maybe didn't wanna a shorter range you know six a 10 a 12 a 15 wherever the older kind of range models were battery technology that that originated in laptops and I was being used in cars and autonomous vehicles totally changed the potential for electric bikes and it changes it will change so many things about your bicycle for example not too far down the road I believe that there will be anti-theft devices on every electric bicycle that you buy you're gonna be able to track your bicycle you're gonna be able to track your heart rate you're gonna be able to do all these things seamlessly just as part of your life so when you put a battery on a bike it changes everything about what it can do right now it's assist in the future will be many things there was this switch about eight years ago from old very heavy very polluting batteries to lithium-ion batteries and it it means that you can have a bicycle that is that you can lift you know that weighs between maybe 35 and 60 pounds that will take you anywhere from 25 to 100 miles right right and that's a game-changer right so last question for you what is like the biggest surprise when somebody comes in the store you know you sit him down so any bike and they come back for their first maintenance whatever that they say how this thing has really impacted their lives integrating activity into your life can change your life in all sorts of ways it can reduce stress the funniest one was this this guy came in they'd had this family that had a baby like six months ago guy comes in buys a bike and he comes back for his new tuna and he goes Karen my wife owes you a big one she's a much happier woman now people love their bikes what surprises them I think the most most often is just how many miles they're accruing on their odometer and that makes them excited from a health standpoint from an environmental standpoint and just from a joy in your daily life standpoint when we all live with a lot of stress at a lot of multitasking and taking 20 minutes on your bike and just having a great relaxing time is unbeatable right well thanks for a card take it a few minutes and and sharing the story and nothing but success for the store alright cheese Caron I'm Jeff you're watching the cube we're at the Royal Dutch gazelle bike event outside of Interbike in Reno Nevada thanks for watching [Music]

(techno music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Reno, Nevada at the Reno Convention Center. It's InterBike 2018, I think it's like 20,000 people, haven't got the official count yet, but this is an amazing show, it's all about bicycles. We came because we want to learn more about eBikes, and really, this kind of last mile thing that's goin' on, mobility, and right at the center of the eBike revolution is a company that's been around forever, and that's Bosch, and we're happy to have Jonathan Weinert. He's a sales and marketing manager for the Bosch eBikes. Jonathan, great to see you. >> Great to see you, Jeff. >> So, I don't know if everybody knows, you guys power like half of all the eBikes that are out there. You guys are completely in bed with all these manufacturers with really, the industry leading system. >> Thank you, yes, the Bosch eBike system, you'll find it world wide on about 70 different bike brands throughout the world. Here in North America, we're on about 30 different brands, from Trek to Electra to Cannondale. And they power all types of bikes, so commuter bikes, cargo bikes, fat bikes, mountain bikes, any type of bike that you can think of can use the Bosch eBike system to amplify the rider's power and help you go further, higher, farther, less sweat or sweat it out, whatever you want. >> Right, it's like the magic power. >> Exactly, magic carpet ride. >> The main components are you got the drive unit, which is really the heart of the system. >> Yes. >> The battery obviously to provide the power, then the control unit that's up on top of the handlebars, so you can control it. >> Exactly. >> So we were talking before we turned the cameras on, of kind of the history, you guys have been at this for like nine years, I believe you said? >> Exactly, yeah, we invented this system nine years ago, it was a combination of technology from our automotive business. So an electric power steering motor, married with technology from our power tools business, the lithium iron battery pack. And we also had some sensors, torque sensors and electronics and we put these technologies together, and the engineers back then, what they wanted to do is create something to make cycling still feel like cycling but help you conquer hills. >> Right. >> And go farther and use the bike more. >> Right, it's pretty interesting cause there's a whole lot of data that's feeding that software and the algorithms to make those feedback loops smooth, make 'em feel like bicycling, so it's really you're riding on software. >> Exactly, you're riding on software and we have three sensors that are capturing your input. Torque sensor from the pedals, how fast you're pedaling, and wheel speed. And those three sensor measurements go into the electronics and tell the motor how much extra oomph to give you. >> Right, but you have to be pedaling right? >> You always have to be pedaling, yeah. >> That's one of the data inputs. >> Exactly, these are all pedal assist eBikes, and they only assist you when you pedal, no throttle, and they can assist you up to 20 miles per hour, or 28 miles per hour for our speed system. >> Right, we saw that last night in the gazelle, they had one of the 28 mile an hour bikes. >> Yeah, which is great for people that have long distance commutes or they want to do these huge adventure rides, so yeah, both are great. >> Now, what about the maintenance for these types of systems I mean it looks like a pretty closed system. >> It is totally closed, yeah. >> It's totally closed. >> Yeah, the maintenance, they last a long time, they're warrantied for two years, but if you have a problem with anything, you take it to the dealer, the dealer takes the component off, sends it to Bosch and gives you a new one. You don't have to open anything or solder anything. >> Right, right. >> Yeah, no. It's automotive grade, sort of service and diagnostics. >> Right, so the other thing we're seeing all over the show floor here again is all about the data. There's so much more data available to the riders. We were just at the Garmin booth and I don't know how many different data sets that they can track, in terms of your pedal pressure. >> Yes. >> Whether you're tipping back and forth, whether you're even, and you guys are actually pulling some of that external data back into your systems, right? For a unified experience for the rider. I think you said, a heart rate sensor for instance? >> Exactly, that's the newest feature that we're showcasing at InterBike today, the Kiox display. Which connects man and machine, or woman and machine. You can wear a heart rate monitor and as you're riding, you can see your heart rate on your device. Which is great if you want to train on an e-mountain bike. Sometimes you want to keep your heart rate in a certain range. Sometimes you want to make sure it doesn't go above a certain limit. >> Right. Yeah, so it's our first step into connectivity. Many more connectivity features will follow. >> Right, so I'm just curious from your perspective on the bike industry, cause you sit in kind of this, cat bird seat, since you deal with so many different kinds of bikes. And I was amazed at how much of the mountain bike adoption of the eBikes is happening here. Have you seen within your dealers, kind of this new opportunity to leverage electronics and a motor to kind of reinvigorate the brands, reinvigorate the models, and reinvigorate, you know, many of the, just a wide range of cool form factors that we're seeing all over the floor? >> Yeah, so nine years ago, Bosch coupled with Haibike. Haibike sort of created this segment of e-mountain biking by putting the motor in a unique way into the bike, and since then this e-mountain bike trend has really taken off, it's huge in Europe. You'll see e-mountain bikes all over the ski resorts there. They're allowing families to e-mountain bike together, to bike together, just like they ski together in the winter. So it's reinvigorating ski resorts and we see ski resorts here in the US, also embracing e-mountain bikes. Mammoth Mountain just allowed class one e-mountain bikes on all their bike park trails. So e-mountain biking is really spreading through this resort and other resorts, North Star, right up the road. >> Right and I wonder on the city side, again, lessons we can learn from Europe, cause it seems like the regulations are, you know, they're always a little bit behind the technology in terms of, you know, how are eBikes treated. Are they a bike, are they a motor vehicle? And I know there's some laws but it still seems a little bit confused and cities aren't quite ready to realize that an eBike is better than a car, in terms of so many things happening in the city. Are you guys involved in that, kind of industry consortium and how do you see that evolving? >> So we've been involved with several other bike companies and PeopleForBikes to create a framework, how to regulate eBikes. And we've divided eBikes into three classes. Class one, two and three, pedal assist, throttle, anyway. Setting up this definition of the three classes of eBikes, we've created this eBike law in California and nine other states throughout the country. So now they know how to regulate eBikes and these three classes and they can limit where each class can go on the roads. And with this regulation, we're seeing the eBike adoption in these states really start to pick up, now that they're easier to regulate. >> Right, well Jonathan, really a cool story and it's been really fun to watch Bosch, especially as you guys have gone from your long history in the auto parts world to this new exciting space. So thanks for taking a few minutes and congrats. >> Oh, my pleasure, Jeff, thank you. >> Alright, he's Jonathan, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at InterBike in Reno, Nevada. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (techno music)

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeffrey here with the cube. We're in Reno, Nevada at the Interbike show. It's a big industry gathering, talking all about bikes, but today we're at a, a little side event is put on by the Royal Dutch, a gazelle bike company, 125 year old bike company that's all in on eBikes. And when we wanted to come check it out, really learn how the bike phenomenon is impacting smart cities and last bile. And there's so much cool stuff going on with big batteries and small motors, but it's really a lot more than that. And we're excited to be here with someone who's been writing about the industry for over 25 years as Patrick Brady, the publisher of the red kite prayer. Great to see you. Thanks. Nice to be here. Yeah. So you've been doing this for a long time and I just love to get your perspective on this e-bike phenomenon because you know, used to be, it's cheating and you know, these are not real bikes and you know, we're tough and we climbed the mountain and these things, that upset bubble, but they're, they're getting a ton of adoption. We just heard from the, the teammate goes up, they're going to sell a third of the bikes they sell this year or e-bike. >>That's amazing to me. Yay. I'm glad. I mean, this thing where, yeah, it's cheating. It's like, no, a good time is never cheating. Why? This is a problem for people. I don't understand. The thing is the very first time I ever got on an E bike, I grinned so hard. My cheeks hurt. It's a good time. And you know, the thing is, it's so effective for transportation. I'm cyclophilin. Okay. I love rode bikes. I love mountain bikes, but I just like bikes. And so if I can keep my car parked and use a bike to get around, I bought an I-CAR go bike, different company. But I love these. They're stylish, you know, and it's such a great way to get around. It's easy to park, easy to lock. They've got an integrated lock on them. You know, why wouldn't you use that as a way to get around, you know, gas guzzling cars. >>This is not what our future will be. We've got to be intelligent about what the future is. Another problem that we face as cyclists is that we're getting run over. People are on the smart phones and every time somebody gets out of an SUV and starts riding a bike, what happens? It's in the brain. We recognize that which we are. And so a chance to cause someone to recognize us out on the road. Oh look, somebody on a bike like I have. Right, right. Maybe they're not going to run us over. Right. So it's a, it's a way to decrease congestion on our roads. It's a nice way to see the world. I mean I don't care what bike you're on, if you're on a bike, it's a better way to see the world. Right? >>Well, 15 miles an hour. That's going to be a my blogger 14 cause it is. It's nice to be outside. You know, you're, you're in the fresh air. What's amazing to me though is I really came into this with a hypothesis around last mile. This is not last mile at all. These things are just substituting out for people's car. I just heard about a ride that people are doing, the Googlers are doing from San Francisco to mountain view every day. That's not an insignificant ride. Yeah. So it's really a game >>changer. Oh yeah. I take my kids to school on my e-bike pick them up in the afternoon, we'll go to the grocery store, pick up a pizza. No, it's so nice and it's easy to get my boys out the door. Can we take the green bike? You know, they get excited about it. Right. So it's, it's a big difference. Let's talk a little bit about regulations. So it's pretty interesting to see kind of, you know, regulation is usually always behind the technology. You know, how do we treat these things? Are they, are they scooters? Are they like a motor vehicle, but as defined by DMV, are they, are they bikes? And, and, and obviously the danger comes on yet, disparity of speeds. So you know, we're seeing on, I see it a lot of bike paths, no heat, no motor vehicles, which I think they mean scooters and then no eBikes. >>So how do you see kind of the regulation gonna change cause to your bed, to your point, it's always better to have somebody on a bike in a car in general in terms of space and congestion and all the reasons that you went through. So what is it going to take for the legislation and kind of the laws to kinda catch up to what these really represent and transforming really cities well, things have evolved a lot already. There's been a working group within the industry that helped define the three different classifications that are being used. Uh, not being able to use them on a bike path I don't think is a really big deal. You know, as, as the infrastructure improves for cycling, uh, out on roads, you know, bike lanes, that sort of thing. I think that's gonna help. But you know, one of the great things about an e-bike is you roll up to a red light and you pop it and turbo, you know, and the moment the light turns green, you're through the intersection instantly. >>So being out on the road where I live in Santa Rosa, I don't have any problems. And because the bike's big, I've got two other people with bright helmets on, people are cheering me, you know, I get waved at people like, you know, they're not pedaling, cracking jokes. So it's, it's become a very different way to present cycling to people who aren't on bikes and they look at it and they get excited. But you know, back to the legislation, I don't see that we're really having a big problem. There've been issues in some other places where, you know, they're just flat out not legal and it's like, well, you know, they're going to, they're going to see the light on that sooner or later. Right, right. We need to provide other options to get people around and it's just too intelligent and really all it takes for anybody to see. >>The light usually is one ride. Give them a half a mile, they'll get it. Right. It's funny because right at the end of the day we all like to be like that eight year old, they got their first thing Ray and you get out on the road and there's really just nothing like that. But now we're a little older, a little heavier and don't quite have that agility that we had as an eight year old. So you can see it bring it back. Yeah, it's crazy. So I'm just curious to your perspective, even within the bike industry, how it's evolved over the years. You know, there's so much stuff going on with batteries and motors. I think they could sell bikes. Are you using a Bosch system? Obviously Bosch is a huge car components company with giant, giant scale. >>Um, so as you've seen that evolve, you know, kind of what are some of your takes in terms of the longer capacity, the longer batteries, the better. >>Oh, you know, the biggest single thing. Sure. The batteries last longer. The motors provide torque on a more even basis. So they don't just take off or do anything crazy, but the units themselves, the biggest single thing that I see, because a motor is a motor at a certain level, the reliability has gone through the roof. You know, BOSH, yet they understand what reliability is. All the companies doing this now are so much better. I remember being at a magazine in 1998 and a guy just begging me to cover his bike and his Lake. It looked like a piece of junk and I had to communicate to them, but well, our reader is it who you're trying to sell to. Our reader. We actually liked going home. We liked the whole sweaty thing. Uh, and so that was, that was an issue, but I remember what that bike was and yeah, they're just so much more reliable. There's so much easier to use. The batteries lasts so much longer. Everything is, you know, it's ready for you. >>Right, right. It's funny, a lot of, a lot of the conversations earlier today, we're, we're talking about kind of those early days and it's fascinates me, all the Kickstarter projects around all these kinds of alternative vehicles, whether they're scooters or skateboards or one wheels and all these different variations of, of personal mobility. Um, but this is an old company. These guys have been added for awhile and I cannot believe that a third of their sales this year are going to be e-bike. So when a big, the big traditional powerhouses come into the market, that changes everything. >>Yeah. Well, when you look at the population of cyclists in the world, and then you look at the population of the world, who do you want to sell to? If you want to grow your company? I don't, let's sell to all the people who aren't currently riding bikes, you know, and think about what that's gonna do for the world. Fewer emissions, happier people. Holy cow. You know, that's crazy talk. >>Right, right, right. All right, Pat. Well, thanks for, uh, for sharing your perspective. It's, it's a really exciting time. We're happy to be here and, uh, I'm sure it's a whole breath of fresh air in your coverage area to be able to get into this space. Yeah, I really welcome it. I love it. I love it. Oh, I love these, said I'm over the, I'm over the cheating. All right. Well, he's Patrick. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube. We're at Interbike and actually a little side event here with Royal Dutch gazelle. Thanks for watching.

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the cube. We're in Reno, Nevada. Interbike is happening uh, this week in Reno. It's a big huge bike show. They have stuff up at the mountains. They've got stuff at the convention center. This is a small side of it put on by Royal Dutch gazelle, a bikes, 125 year old bike company that is all in on electric bikes. We came because this e-bikes story and part of the big motors, or excuse me, a little motors, big battery kind of last mile thing has really taken off. So we want to come get a better feel for what's going on and we're excited to have a dealer from Portland, one of the most bike friendly towns in all the U S he's wait, Greg. And he runs e-bike store weight. Great to see you. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >>So you said you've had your store open for 10 years. 10 years. We were the first all I looked at short store to open in Portland. Actually it was part of an MBA project. I was in China taking a class, saw electric bikes for the first time, gas had just spiked and realize these are the most efficient form of motorized transportation known. Right. And nobody was doing it. And so next class I had wrote a business plan, launched it 10 years ago by putting 25,000 on a credit card and borrowed 10,000 from a friend and 10 years later we're still here. Love it, love the story. It's been, it's been a fun ride. So it's just, you know, you're the second retailer we've had on and they were also exclusive e-bikes in the Bay area. So you know, was the kind of existing bike infrastructure attitude, you know, industry just looking down to these only things where they just too weird to new Y, you know, kind of the early ones are e-bikes only. >>What's interesting, if you come to the market right now, what you see is you see some of the largest companies in the world putting a lot of resources, engineering resources, manufacturing resources, testing resources behind e-bikes. Back in the day, it wasn't such you, these manufacturers make them in the kind of, the customer was a test person. Right. And so it's been a very bumpy road to get to this point. But at this point they're very reliable. And so at first when caught, when shops were brought these things, they said, why would I ever carry that? Who can keep it running? You know? And now it's at the point where they're very easy to keep her on. They have log files, you plug it into the computer if you have a problem with it and it tells you, Oh error code, fix this one thing and off you're going again. >>But it hasn't always been such. And so the Rick older bike shops in particular avoided them because you make your money in a bike shop by having a customer for life and they couldn't keep them running. So they were nervous. They would not be able to keep the customer. Right. And there was a, it was wise, you know, now it's at the point where all the IBDs are coming in in Portland right now we have seven electrical only bike shops. All the big IBDs are carrying it with IBD, independent bike dealers. Okay. And on top of that, half the people that are looking for any bike will not buy from a traditional bike shop. It only come to an e-bike specialist. And so that's kind of our niche is the people and we really focus on that. So we try to have all of our, how we explain things, not to use big bike terms. >>We talk about how it would value the customer and use a whole different lingo than a traditional shop. Right. So it is a lot of different things going on with bikes. So one of them, right, is the speed, um, and then, and how it's classified. So yes, you know, there's the kind of the 20 mile an hour limit and we see that in the scooters and all these electric vehicles that keep it not a motor vehicle. And then they've got one here. I think it was 27 or 28 miles across three class three. So the laws seem to be kind of trying to catch up, like how do we classify these things? Are they bikes? Are they allowed on the bike path? Are they not allowed on the bike? Pass the hop. It's funny you bring that up tonight. Evolve. Well, it's funny you bring that up today because just today by Portland, which is one of the biggest bike blogs in the nation, um, came out with an article saying they were relatively in the fine print of or Portland code, my city's code and found out you can't ride your bike on the city paths and the city parks, and I didn't know this, I've been in business 10 years, but the very fine print and under dissertation you can't do it. >>Um, so it is, it's a gray space. Um, the 20th mile an hour bikes. Well it seems crazy fast when you and I are standing here. When you're on a road and there is a backup of cars behind you, where's the 20 mile an hour speed limit and they're driving 25 right. You know, it feels kind of safer to be able to go 25 with them and not hold them up and be able to get away from the door and, and zone. We're in a car doesn't go over to the store and you by taking the lane it feels much safer. So I actually, you know, I ride a class one most of the time but I, I do like riding class three bikes. Right. Just curious in terms of of the change of experience on an E bike versus a regular bike, some of the customers that you have, how is it fundamentally different? >>Cause I, you know I came to here today thing and this was really a last mile play. It's not a last mile play at all. For us, about 35% of our customers, their e-bike is their main mode of transportation. It is their car. It is how they get around and about 20% historically from our shop having people with physical disabilities or limitations in some way, shape or form 20%, 20%. So it's people who can no longer make it up the Hill to their house. It's people who can't arrive at work sweaty. It's people with ms, people who are missing along, people who have CLPD, um, you name it. These are people who now can ride again and getting them active again. And so it's a whole different mindset. Um, historically the bike industry has really gone after kinda the elite athlete, right? And this is something different. >>It's people who have, may haven't written a bike for oftentimes 20 plus years, right. Are now able to get out and go on a Hill. And the most interesting thing, they did a study in Australia where they put on, they worked with psycho stupid, been injured and they hooked him up to exercise bikes in front of a video screen showing them as they're paddling down the road essentially. And they change the video to climb a Hill, but they didn't change the settings on the exercise bike. They're sitting on the cyclist reported a higher level of pain when the visual show them climbing the Hill. So e-bikes do the exact reverse of that. And you're actually rewiring your brain so that bikes don't add pain and you can get where you need to go easily and efficiently. Right. So it's their primary, their primary methods. So you talked about the connectivity, um, you know, an app, integrated experience with all these devices we see over and over. >>So how has that changed your experience? Are you, is it, is it app for the consumer in terms of they're keeping track of their miles? Is it just for you and the maintenance or how's the integration of an app working through different ways for the app? So there's a mechanics app, we can plug it in and see the error codes. And that's important because being back in the day, someone will come in and say, I wrote this thing at mile 25 it cut out and stopped working. So after work, you know, or we go out and ride 25 miles and try to see if we could recreate the issue. And it was a pain. Now wait, you just told me it wasn't a pain to ride 25 buses. This is back in the day. It was a pain to try falls off. Intermittent issues are the bane of our existence. >>Yes, yes. But the uh, having a log file, we just plug it in and says, Oh, it cut out because of this error code, you know, and boom. Okay. Replaced the speed sensor. Good. You're back up and rolling. Right. Especially with people who commute. They don't want to leave their bike in the shop. They want ready within 24 hours or less. And so it's gotta be turned right. And so it's a whole different form of mechanics and a whole different level of support from the bike dealer. And that's why we choose the bike lines we choose like gazelle. Right. Who support their products very well. So it's pretty interesting that you said, you know, we talked about the scooter space and one wheels and all that fun stuff. So many deals, companies were started with Kickstarter. It's amazing to me how many kind of Kickstarter projects actually turned into real companies. >>Boosted future motion being a couple of my favorites. Future motion. Actually the design behind it was the guy who first invented the cell and unicycle unicycles Daniel Wood, he's actually from clock, I remember from Clackamas right across the river from Portland. And so I tried as original version of the self-balancing unicycle, which they made their first one wheels from and that, you know, it's come a long way and there's the one wheel, but it's been fascinating progression to watch him write and bring that out too. But that's very different than 125 year old Dutch company that's been making Mike making these bikes for a hundred plus years. Really? It's funny, we have, I think there's seven models here that they're showing today. I asked the exact guys how many regular bikes models they have and they're like one. Yeah. So, so they're all in. I mean this is significant. >>You think about some of the biggest companies in the world market cap. Bosch has always worn the top five or 10 market companies in the world. They make the largest set of best selling system in the United States and in Europe. Right? And they're behind it. They have millions of lithium batteries and people's homes already through their power tool division. They're the kind of engineering they're bringing is staggering and it's been really fun to be part of an industry that has been so nascent and yet just boom. Right. You just comes up with fright before you write for your eyes. Okay, so I got to ask you about the, whether you're from Portland, Portland rains a lot in, in, in Holland. How does the rain impact these things? Obviously you just send us their primary vehicle. Is it, is it more dangerous? Is there more spray? >>Is it, is it a factor? Not a factor. This is where the lines you carry make a huge difference. So when you, if you carry it, if you buy one off the internet that hasn't been product tested, you are the product tester. If you buy one like this, they literally have like a saltwater steam bath. They put the bikes in for weeks to stimulate Marine corrosion. They have hydraulic machines that the tar out of them. And so when you get a product, it just works. Um, and so we've had a, we had a Bosch system go completely underwater. Now, I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody's experience. We had a guy literally put the bike in a river. He went one way. The bike went another, not on purpose, not on purpose. It was underwater for a few minutes. Right? Right. At work and rode home. >>And about a week later it made some noises and we told Bosch what happened, it was not a warranty issue with it was a collision. And Bosch said, you know, we haven't had enough warranty claims. You have some extra motors, we're going to send you a new one. And the guy said, it uses daily commuter. Right? Um, and it works great. Right? So, so w rain does not affect them, but it really depends on the model you have and how much product testing and how much engineering has gone in behind it to make sure you have the experience. Cause lithium and water are not generally friends. No. So, so just, I'll give you the last word. When you talk to people that are new to the space, maybe they just stumbled into the store, they heard about these e-bike things. What's kind of the biggest surprise that you see time and time again when people get one of these things and bring it home. >>Number one is that it rides like a bike. You can just go further. Um, th how well integrated they are. Um, on average the Baker's written 75% more than a traditional bike, 75% more, 75% more. Um, on average you can go about, well, the average speed wise on it. Um, I just study on this today. You know, you can increase your time by an average cycles average 11 miles an hour average e-bike average is about 13 to 1415 around there. And I forget the exact number. So I'm giving a bit of a gray area there. A little bit faster. Yeah. And so it gets you where you're going faster with less sweat. Right. We'll wake. Thanks for, uh, for taking a minute. What a, it's a, it's a cool story. And you know, Portland obviously is leading the charge in this, in this whole transformation. It's been a fun place to be and our customers are just awesome and no two ways about it. Super. Well, thanks again. He's waking. Jeff, you're watching the cube. We're at the Royal Dutch gazelle bike event at Interbike. Thanks for watching. Thank you.

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff, Rick here with the cube Worthen Nevada museum of art in Reno, Nevada for the Interbike show. Just happening down the street at the convention center. But we're actually at a side of it put on by Royal Dutch, a gazelle bikes, 125 year old, a bike company who is all in on electric bikes. We wanted to come in, see what's going on, really how the e-bike phenomenon is kind of intermingling with all these alternative scooters and, and all these alternative ways of getting around cities especially and, and get a feel for it. So we're excited to have a retailer who's been in the business for a long time. He's Davey oil. He is a founder a and, and cone or of GNO family. Cyclery David. Great. See you. Thanks. It's really happy to be here. Yeah. So first off, uh, just impressions of this event tonight. Um, cause I was rolling eyes. There's six or seven new bikes out here tonight. What do you think? >>It's very exciting because that was an extremely high quality brand of electric bicycle. And like you said, they have a uh, like a very long history in, in bicycle design. Right. And what they're doing now is they're, they're riding this wave of new technology that's coming through e-bikes and it's phenomenal. It's so funny cause >>some of these things I was talking about earlier, you know, so many Kickstarters, right, that have started and actually a lot of the companies have been pretty successful on the Kickstarter basis, but this is an old line company. They'd been making these things, I think I heard earlier, they're still making them at the same factory that they've been making them for 125 years. And surprisingly to me a third of this year's bike sales will be eBikes. So clearly there's something going on here. Yeah, there is that. What do you think in terms of the adoption Seattle, cause what I've heard as well is that the U S is about 10 years behind >>and Kennedy bike adoption. Yeah. I think that's probably the case in Seattle. We're very fortunate that there are a lot of factors at play that are, that are driving your bike adoption a happening a little faster than it is in some other parts of the country. But I think that all around the country and in cities and suburbs and also in rural areas, people are gonna find that adding an electric mobility to your bicycle, it takes away the barriers to cycling that so many people experienced that are totally rational. Like when I arrived at my destination, I don't want to be sweaty or I want to be able to use a bicycle, but I want to be able to carry more things or my children. Right. And when you add the mobility to your bicycle, those kind of barriers are just eliminated. You can see you're still getting exercise, but you can choose to make the bicycle ride more of what you'd expect from other forms of transportation, which is convenient and not sweaty and difficult. >>So how many of your customers aren't really bicyclists that that they're coming at this as a, as kind of a new opportunity? Maybe they just, they cycled before, but they're not kind of hardcore cyclists. You see this as the right foot. What's amazing to me is you have all these form factors, but this is a form factor that people are very familiar with and that's where I think there's a real opportunity bike that's not the same as scooters and some of these other things. Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, what we experience is that probably two thirds of our customers don't previously identified themselves as bicyclists. Um, they're probably somewhat friendly with the idea bicycles so they wouldn't have walked into a bicycle store. But what we see is that that transformation that happens to people when they adopt cycling as a, as a major part of their life and a major part of their transportation that still occurs, but it occurs all at once when they leapfrog over so many of these barriers and just have the opportunity to use a bicycle so much more than they would have otherwise. And the same thing happens to people who are already interested in cycling. People who only ride recreationally often find that with the addition of any bike into their life, they can use a bicycle for many, many, or most of their transportation needs, uh, over the course of their life. And that's profound, right. Transforms people. >>So there's a lot of special kind of characteristics of Seattle. Yeah. Obviously the weather is not great. Of course it's not great in, in Holland either. And they got a lot of bikes. They're got Hills and bridges and some nasty traffic. Not that everybody else does them, Massey traveling, but Seattle's got some crazy traffic. So you guys are seeing not only the adoption of the bikes for commuting and for fun and all those things, but you're selling a lot of cargo bikes for commercial purposes in this tight urban center. So I wonder if you can give us a little bit more color on how you're seeing the penetration in cargo bikes. Sure. >>Well, I think that cargo bikes when used for like freight purposes and delivery purposes and enterprise purposes in general, they benefit from the same things that bicyclists benefit from in urban environments in general, which is just greater mobility, freedom from the restrictions of traffic. I'm not trying to say that bicycles aren't on the road and that they don't sometimes find themselves behind a long line of stopped cars, but we have so much more flexibility in those situations and we can park safely and reasonably on a sidewalk. And so, so many things that happen, uh, that people suffer through due to congestion or alleviated when they're riding a bicycle in general. And business has experienced that when they use them for freight for sure. >>And it's not just a cargo bike, it's any cargo bikes. So now I've got the superhuman skills so I can, I can carry that load. I can replace a truck. I mean we have, we have bicycles in operation in Seattle for some, some of our customers use that. Our daily carrying 400 500 pounds of weight in there and they're traveling, you know, 60 70 miles in a day. Right. So how are you seeing the integration of the eBikes with the regular bikes, the hardcore bikers, the recreational bikers, and then of course you've got the slow move in pedestrians, right? And the, the dangerous stuff occurs when you've got all these disparity in, in, in velocity. And it's going to be interesting to see kind of how the regs kind of catch up and eventually probably, you know, discriminate. So these PO, these paths are for, you know, 20 miles or more of these paths are for, you know, 10 miles an hour or less. So how are you seeing that kind of work itself out in the streets of the city? Cause absolutely get a little rough sometimes out there. I think it has the potential to get a little rough. I think that honestly, um, yeah, >>the situation, the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and electric bicyclists is not an issue or not any more significant than the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and conventional bicyclists. I think that while an electric bicycle can travel up to 20 miles an hour or in some cases faster, they don't ordinarily travel that fast. That's a peak speed. Um, and so I don't really think that sidewalks are being menaced by electric bicyclists. I don't think that's really occurring, although I do think that the kind of regulations that you're talking about that classify type II bikes into types so that we can then, um, uh, empower people who have jurisdiction over different pieces of infrastructure to, um, to determine for themselves and for their users what bikes are allowed in which ones are, are, are forbidden, um, or restricted. I think that's really positive. Right? I think it's extremely important that we define what these vehicle types are because of course there are some vehicles which are more appropriate for some environments than others. >>Right. But I think the real thing is that bicyclists and III bicyclists are not the enemy of pedestrians. I think that together we're all making smart choices and we're in the safe spot. And I think that if it feels like there's too many bicycles on the sidewalk in your town, it's probably because you haven't made any room for bicyclists in the streets of your town. Right. And I think we all need to work together to make cycling a safe and viable option across all of our communities that will help congestion when we remove people from cars, we improve traffic for everybody. >>Right, right. And bikes should not be on sidewalks, period. Right. That's not really not the bike, not the bike place unless the, the street is just so, so tragic. >>I think. I think that if you're talking about it in a situational like daily life active, uh, situation, I think, um, there are a lot of conditions where bicycles are going to be on the sidewalk and there are many of them that I think are reasonable. I think it's totally reasonable to decide as a city we don't want bicycles, bicycles to primarily ride on sidewalks or when bicycles are on sidewalks. I don't think there's any city in the country that allows bicycles on sidewalks. It doesn't also stipulate as long as they're traveling safely. So if somebody has a problem with how somebody is behaving, that's still a problem either way. >>Right, right, right. So I'm just curious to get your take as, as you've seen this market evolved. Again, we've got big players involved. Bosch is doing all the, all the electronics on these bikes. Yeah. Capacity's got bigger on the battery speeds have gotten better. Dependability. Yeah. So how are you seeing kind of the evolution of the eBikes impacting the total market for bikes? Again, I can't believe that that gives out. Guys said they're going to sell a third of their bikes. Are e-bikes. Yeah. You see in the same thing in your business. >>Yeah. Well, I mean my business is focused on eBikes. Um, but what I will say is that I think that um, one of the challenges for bicycle advocacy and bicycle marketing and retail has always been a how to appeal to people who are somewhat friendly towards bicycling but aren't doing it that called interested but concerned. And it, I think it turns out that e-bikes are the key here, that we can help transform people from someone who is friendly towards bicycling to somebody who uses a bicycle as a big part of their life simply by making bicycles easier. And as you identified right now, finally, we're at a point in the development of this technology where the bikes really are reliable as a vehicle. And that's significant, right? It's not just a hobbyist activity at this point. These are, these are legitimate, uh, reliable vehicles >>in transportation. I mean, legitimate trans, it's not just your last mile vehicle anyway. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at our shop at least we're talking about people who are, who have given up a car. Um, almost almost every one of our customers who's getting an electric cargo bag is doing this as part of their family transportation budget. And that includes driving less or removing a car from their life, right? And that could only work if the e-bike was at least as reliable as driving lists. And so maybe a flat tire is still a pretty annoying problem, but that should be the worst problem. Right? And I think we're finally there in terms of the quality of technology that's out >>and now it's only upward. We're like at year zero now. Right. Amazing. Even with the weather and the Hills and everything else, it's profound, man. It's really, and then it's a, it's a cultural shift, so it's just, it's just spreads across our community. Right. One person who inspires somebody else and inspires somebody else. Well, David, thanks for taking a few minutes and sharing your story. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right. He's Dave young. Jeff. We are at Interbike Reno, but we're actually at the gazelle, uh, event looking at their e-bikes and they're really, really cool. Thanks for watching. Catch you next time.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Reno, Nevada at Interbike 2018. I think it's like 20,000 people. I'm trying to get the official number. I haven't been able to run it down yet. >> It feels big. >> It feels big, a lot of stuff going on here. We came up because really the last mile vehicles, this amazing kind of revolution in small motors and big batteries and reliability and smart cities and it's really going to play an important part in travel going forward. And we're excited to be here on the floor and the first company we came across, I'm obviously a big fan if you follow me on social, is Future Motion, they make the Onewheel. It's a crazy cool device and we have Orion O'Neill, the sales manager from Future Motion. Orion, great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so you said it's your first year at the show. We were kind of wondering kind of where, you know, your class of vehicles fits within this whole bicycle world. >> Yeah absolutely, so generally speaking, we generally exhibit in kind of more like outdoor retailer and outdoor apparel shows but really the cool thing about Interbike is, at the end of the day, bikes are like transportation, you know? And really our product, the Onewheel Plus, is really a last mile transportation tool. So we decided to come to Interbike and see what's going on in the industry and see how we can kind of fit into the new last mile transportation. >> Right, and how's it been going? >> It's been awesome, the response has been really cool. Surprisingly, not a lot of people here know about us, so it's always cool to see people who have never seen our product, you know. >> Right, right, but what's interesting in terms of the bikes and the E part of it is, what we're seeing a lot of here is the outdoors so now the e-bike has gone beyond just kind of the road bike or the city bike, the commuter bike, and they're running 'em up and down the mountains out there. >> Yeah absolutely, and you know I talk with a fair amount of people in the bike industry and my understanding is that lots of the growth in mountain biking is coming from the e-bike, you know, and that's because it just lowers the barriers to entry. It's all about getting more people out there and able to enjoy the outdoors. >> Right. >> And we think with our board its kind of similar, you know, it has the utility to do commuting within the city, but the big tire also allows for us to kind of go out and explore trails, you know, beach, grass, gravel, all that stuff. >> Right, so I wonder if you guys are doing any work or you see anything on kind of the regulations? 'Cause, you know, the regs are always kind of behind the technology and it's interesting, you go on a lot of trails, which are perfect for bikes, they're perfect for Onewheels, they're perfect for e-bikes, but you see this sign, right, no motor vehicles, and I think, most of the time, they're thinking motorcycles, they're thinking kind of traditional internal combustion motor vehicles, not necessarily this new class. So I wonder kind of from your point of view, are you guys working on that? What do you kind of see in terms of the acceptance of having these new age vehicles in space? >> Totally. Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, you know, legislation is always very far behind, kind of, you know, where the industry and innovation is going. But we really think that slowly but surely we're seeing more acceptance on, you know, generally what we need to work on is the forest service and BLM. And they're starting to open dialogues with e-bike communities and we were actually talking with a few people in Tahoe and just having a more, you know, tailored legislation towards kind of last mile commutes and electric transportation that's not like a dirt bike or something like that. >> Right, right, because it's really about disparity of speed, that's where dangerous things happen. >> Exactly. >> But, if you're on a mountain trail or, you know, you're running around, it shouldn't be a big issue. And actually, Onewheels are unique because they work very well slow. >> I know. >> Which a lot of vehicles don't. >> And the cool thing about Onewheels on trails, that lots of people don't know is, the big tire actually packs the trails so it actually can like repair some of the ruts that bikes put in. >> Alright, that's a good reach. (Orion laughing) I like that. Thinking ahead, you're giving us a gift for a get, we're helping you do trail maintenance if you ride your Onewheel, I like it. So you guys just released this version a couple years ago, Kickstarter company, just kind of give us a quick overview of what's happening with the company now. I think you said you caught up with your back orders, you're getting into more retail locations. What's up with Future Motion? >> Yeah, so, minute overview, you know, we Kickstarted back in early 2014, first product came to market basically a year after that which was the original Onewheel. Then we had the Onewheel Plus two years ago and we just introduced the Onewheel Plus XR at CES this past January and, yeah, the growth has been pretty amazing. We're now up to basically 400 retailers worldwide. We have Europe, Australia, and North America. And the response to the product has just been amazing. >> Yeah, pretty cool, and the thing a lot of people don't know is you're actually riding on software which is what I think is part of the unique attributes of this vehicle. >> Right, I'm not an engineer, let me preface that, but my understanding is the hardest part in what makes our boards so amazing is the actual programming. The firmware that tells the motor how to respond to those inputs, you know >> Right, right >> That's the bread and butter. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Very cool, well Orion thanks for spending a few minutes and congrats on the success. >> Absolutely, thanks for having me. >> Alright, he's Orion, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at Interbike 2018 in Reno, Nevada. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)