>>Welcome to the cubes dock, our main stage coverage here at DockerCon 2022. I'm John furrier, host of the cube. We're here with cube alumni, a partner scene, the senior director of product and the developer platform at Google cloud, a partner. Great to see you. It's been a while how's things >>Great to see you, John. Thanks for having me. >>So obviously we've covered a lot about the Google's history and open source. If you go back, I mean go back generation 2000, it all started, it continues to continue to thrive the SDO, all the different projects you guys are around the future of containers and serverless all there. Give us the update. Why are customers choosing Google cloud? We're here at Docker con what's the big update from Google cloud's perspective from a, from a developer perspective? >>Well, John, uh, Google cloud has been, uh, the early cloud on containers, um, and by all measures from, we can, from what we can see, you know, it is the preferred cloud for container native workloads. Um, I think why our customers choosing cloud there's a, there's a few different reasons. Um, definitely one of the reasons is because it is a flexible and open platform. And I think that that is, uh, distinctive about Google cloud, as you mentioned, uh, many, many open source projects coming from Google and Google cloud in particular over the last 20 years, um, spanning, um, languages, um, you know, obviously, uh, the go programming language all the way to of course, Kubernetes. Um, and then, uh, more recently Isto and, uh, K native and many more, uh Tecton is one of the leading projects as well. Um, in the C I C D space. >>So I think that, uh, history is something that really attracts the developer population. It's also very, very important for enterprises that are, uh, modernizing and looking to accelerate their, uh, developer productivity. So that's been one major reason. I think the second major reason is really the security aspect, um, of the developer tool chain and in particular related to open source secure well, and I think the third, uh, reason that comes out, um, quite frequently when we, when we talk to our enterprise customers is Google cloud is unique in the multi-cloud space. Um, you know, one of the first, I think probably the first and, uh, only cloud provider to have a very strong multi-cloud strategy, uh, and that stems from the open source roots, but also, you know, uh, bringing more than just, uh, compute, bringing many of our data services also, uh, to the multi-cloud space. I think that's, those are the three reasons why, uh, developers often choose Google cloud. >>Yeah. And you see the multi-cloud also in a distributed computing environment. It's, I mean, multi-cloud is basically distributed computing where you've got hyperscalers and then edges emerging very quickly. Of course, we've talked about that in the past, on previous interviews, how security at the edge software opensource all coming together. Again, Kubernetes launched by Google contributed to the open source world that everyone knows that, or may not know that. Um, but, but that's key. Where do you see the container position come in? Because at the end of the day, containers is standard and now you've got Kubernetes and other parts wrapped around it. Where's container technology going in the coming, coming in the future years. Is it gonna be invisible? Is it gonna be programmable? What's your vision on that? >>This is an excellent question. And you're exactly right. You're seeing containers become mainstream. And some of the latest, uh, state of the, the state of the cloud business report, you're seeing, you know, 80% of enterprises, um, having some form of a container program and I've been involved in this industry since the very early days. So this is something we've been predicting, um, and it is happening even faster than expected. So that's becoming very mainstream, which is extremely exciting for us. Now you ask, you know, what is the future and what is the evolution of it? Um, so, and, and I think, uh, this is the right question because, um, you're seeing a lot of the future actually on Google cloud. Um, we're, we've won the, uh, Gartner and Forester quadrants as far as leader quadrants in, uh, you know, container offerings. And that's not just Kubernetes, of course, uh, Google Kubernetes engine has been, has been the leading area, but there's a whole host of offerings around that. >>Um, in particular I'd like to point out serverless containers with cloud run, as well as the entire DevOps pipeline around containers. And that's a big topic in the industry right now. It brings in, uh, security as related to, uh, developers. And then of course, uh, you know, providing an automated, secure pipeline for DevOps, um, as it relates to containers, we've had several announcements and, and, and a lot of success in this space. Uh, I, I can go through some of these things with cloud run, which is our serverless container offering. We've seen, uh, four X growth in adoption and, uh, consumption of that service last year in 2021. And that is continuing, uh, so it's very, very healthy and it is very much the reason customers are adopting. It is because they don't need to learn a lot of the underlying infrastructure. They don't need to manage any of the underlying infrastructure. >>There isn't necessarily a cluster to manage all of that is taken care of, uh, for them. And they can focus on their application. They can actually use, uh, make use of the benefits of containers, such as, uh, you know, scalability, um, such as, um, application awareness, uh, and such as a lot of the integrated tool chain for, uh, delivery for application delivery, right from your source repository into production, and then being able to bring out new versions of your application, test them, and then roll over. So this is kind of the new, uh, uh, generation I think is very much tied to the pandemic and what's happening in the world post pandemic, where developers are extremely important, developer productivity and, and fact developer work, life balance is extremely >>Important. Yeah. And I, and I think also one of the things that we're seeing to piggyback on that last comment, as well as your other points is developers have always been pulled to the front lines even 10 years ago. You saw the trend towards getting more closer to the customer now with cloud and edge and with open source being the innovation equation where entrepreneurs are starting projects, companies are starting projects, then they gotta get commercialized. So supply chain is a big discussion. We're hearing at Docker con we're hearing about shifting left of security data as code. You start to see the developer on the front lines in all aspects of this, and they want, they want security, they want efficiency, they want things in the pipeline. They don't wanna have to shift left, then come back again. So again, they starting to see this kind of productivity drive the business behavior of the companies cuz that's their, the value partners. That's the application side of cloud native. What's your thoughts for the developers who are doing that? What's in it for them with Google cloud? Why, why are you important to them? >>Yeah, and I think, uh, John, this is where, uh, developers, uh, tend to prefer Google cloud. And there's a couple of reasons for that. One is, you know, we are very much, uh, centered around developers. Um, you know, my job is, uh, you know, Google cloud developer platform. And, uh, our goal is to provide ease of use the easiest cloud for developers. Something that is, um, you know, really allows them to get their work done quickly. Developers want to be exposed to the best technology. They want to be able to be exposed to it in a way that that integrates into their workflow that integrates into the tools that they're used to, um, and allows them to get their job done quickly. And so a lot of what we're doing in, in the developer space is providing an integrated stack. Um, you know, whether you're building a web application or you're building a mobile application, or you're trying to do data analytics, uh, Google cloud should be a place that you come to. >>That's easy for you to use, to get the job done. Um, and, and, and the security aspect is not something that developers like to deal with. They want that to be taken care of for them, um, troubleshooting as well, you know, troubleshooting and, and upgrading. And all of that is something that they wanna be taken care of. And so that is something that we're baking into the platform. And you'll see that in a lot of our tooling, um, you know, the build process, uh, we're providing salsa compliance, um, and, and build Providence for the security teams to be able to audit. But it's not something that the, that the developer needs to take care of. It's something that is just part of the, the build process built into, uh, say, uh, cloud run or GK built into our compute options for making >>It for them, making it easy, simple, and reduce the steps it takes to get the job done. So great stuff par, great to see you in the last 30 seconds, we have left. Just give a quick commercial for what the key projects are in open source. You're proud of that people should pay attention to, we got CubeCon coming up, uh, in, uh, Europe and north America. What are some of the successes that you like to point out? >>Well, I really encourage, uh, developers to go and take a look, a new look at, go go 1.8, add support for generics. It should open up a brand new set of applications. So I definitely encourage folks to, to take a look at that, um, of, of course ISEO and service mesh. As, as your container footprint grows, you have many microservices looking at service mesh, uh, extremely important, and it also allows you to get to that SRE type of, um, uh, DevOps model where, you know, you're securing your services. You're also, uh, being able to monitor and control, uh, service usage. And then the last one is of course Tecton and this is where secure software supply chain comes up. Part I'll >>Mention that. I wish I had 20 minutes. Love chatting with you. We'll catch up with you later on the cube we're here at DockerCon. Thanks for your time. Back to the DockerCon main stages of the cube. I'm John farrier, back to the main stage for more coverage.

(peaceful music) >> Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Dave Nicholson, and I am delighted to welcome back to the cube, cube veteran, Chen Goldberg, VP of engineering from Google. Chen, welcome back to the cube. >> Hey Dave, super happy to be here. >> Absolutely delighted to have you here. Let's dive right into this conversation. There was a, there was a blog post this week, talking about Google Cloud putting a lot of weight behind this idea of principles for software development. What are those principles and why are they important? >> The three principles that we put in that blog post is open, easy, and transformative. And I think what's really important to recognize with the three principles that those are not new principles, not for Google Cloud, and definitely not for me. I joined Google about, a little bit over five years ago. Right when just Kubernetes started to lead Kubernetes and Google Kubernetes engine team. And we immediately recognized, the idea of open and the importance of flexibility and choice is a foundation to the idea of Kubernetes and portability workloads. But pretty early on, it was clear that it's not enough just to have portability and flexibility because it creates a lot of complexity. So how can we still have that without creating a trade-off or tension for our customers? So really making sure that everything is also easy. You know, and one of the things, I use, I like to say it's not just portability of workloads, but also portability of skills and you achieve that through consistent experience, right? A lot of automation. And when you bring all of those things together, what I love about Google Cloud is that, you know, I'm an infrastructure person. I've always been infrastructure person. And what excites me the most is seeing others take this innovation and, and really empowers developers to make amazing, or, you know, unique ideas, a reality. And that's really the foundation principles for Google Cloud. >> So how does that translate into, from a customer perspective? >> So I would just start with some customer examples, right? Starting from, their perspective. So when we think about open, this is actually part of the, our customers cloud strategy, right? You say cloud, you immediately think only about public cloud, but from our customer perspectives, right? They think about public clouds, right? Most of them have more than one cloud, but they also think about the private cloud, you know, IOT edge and having that openness and flexibility to choose where they can run their workload, is critical. It's critical for them. What I hear mostly is of course, innovation, managing costs, and also making sure that they are not locked out of innovation that happens for example, in any cloud or, or somewhere else. So that's a really a key consideration for our customers when they think about their cloud strategy. The second thing that open matters is that it's really hard to hire talent that is expert and has the right skills. And we see that by using a leveraging open source technologies, it actually makes it easier to our customers to hire the best talent there is in the industry. At one of the previous Google Cloud Next sessions, we had the Loblaw for example, which is the biggest grocery in Canada. And, you know, we were joking on stage, that even though at our hiring for grocery shop, they still can hire the best talent because they are using the best technologies out there in the industry. So that's one, if you think about the importance of easy, I would just call out Western Digital that we've just announced how they decided to standardize on Anthos for their cloud strategy, right? Both of course, Google cloud platform, but On Prem and the Edge. And for them what's important is that when they have all of their amazing developers and operators, how can they provide them reach experience, right. We don't want our developers or operators to spend time on things that can be automated or managed by others. So having a smooth, intuitive experience is really critical. And we we've been announcing some new stuff like a, a Google Cloud deploy and really integrating the entire experience, especially integration for managing, deploying directly to Google Kubernetes engine. And of course, one of my favorite is Jiechi autopilot, which really takes all the goodness with Kubernetes and automatically managing. And then transformative, this is like what I said before, unleashing innovation. And we see Wendy's, for example, right, they want to actually have AI machine learning at run time at their branches, which will allow them to create a new experience for their customers. So this is how we see customers really appreciate these three principles. >> So whenever the subject of Kubernetes and Google comes up, we have to talk Anthos. We're now into what year three of Anthos. How has adoption looked what's the latest on that front? >> That has been really great. We actually have been seeing a 500% growth on the end of Q2 of year over year. And it's important you know to mention that the journey with Anthos is not something new, but something that we have built with our customers when they really love the experience they have on GCP, but needed to innovate elsewhere and not just on Google Cloud. So we've been seeing that, you know, I mentioned the Western Digital, blah, blah, and Wendy's we also have customers like MLB, which is really exciting how they've changed their entire fans' experience using Anthos. And for them, again, it was both the easy part, right? How can I deal with that complexity of having compute and storage everywhere in every one of the stadiums, but also how can I use AI and machine learning, which is unique to Google Cloud in order to create unique experiences for the fans, at real time, of course. >> Yeah. Now you've, touched on this a bit already, if you had to, if you thought about someone reviewing Anthos, their Anthos experience, because we're in the midst of people adopting Anthos and becoming new to Anthos at this point. What does a delighted customers response sound like to you? What is that Yelp review that they would write? If they were telling people we, doubled down on Anthos and we are thrilled because, fill in the blank for a second. >> The first thing that comes to mind is that it works everywhere and the developer experience that comes with it, right? So we have, of course the platform and the infrastructure, but where Anthos really shine is that experience, on top of thinking about all developers and operators that can really work in every environment without paying too much attention to that. And just having that intuitive experience, right? If you go to the Google Cloud console, you see all your clusters, and now we're actually also going to add your VMs into that view, and you can use tools like Anthos config managers, and Anthos service mash to manage your security posture or the configuration in all of those environments. >> So we hear a lot about Multicloud. Multicloud is fantastic, but it sounds like, dealing with the complexity associated with Multicloud is something that Anthos definitely helps with. >> Yes, you know, Google is best with complexity at scale, we've been running containers and really large environments for many years. And some of those principles really, you know, have been fundamental to the way we've started with Kubernetes. So the idea of the declarative intent and automation is really critical in managing large environment and high complexity because in those environments, lots of things can change, but with the declarative approach, you don't have to anticipate everything that is going to change, but you need to know what is your desired state. And that's really one way that Anthos is leveraging the Kubernetes primitives and those ideas to manage different types of environments. In addition to that, it's actually really adding that layer that I talked about before, around the easy can I make sure that my tools, right, if it's, for example, a cloud hybrid build or cloud deploy or Anthos service manager, Anthos config manager, can I make sure that this UI, the CLI the API will be consistent in all of those environments? Can I view in one place, all of my clusters, all of my applications, and this is really where Anthos shines. >> So the cloud data foundation had a, had to get together at the same time as, Google Cloud Next. And there's been a lot of discussion around topics like security. I just like to get your thoughts on, you know, what what's at the forefront of your mind, working in engineering at Google, working in this world where people are deploying Anthos, working in a world where in a multi-cloud environment, you don't necessarily have control as vice president of engineering at Google over what's happening in these other clouds. So what are some of the things that are at the front of your mind is security one of them, what are your thoughts? >> Security is top of mine. Similar to all of our customers and definitely internally. And there are many things that we are very worried about or create some risks. You know, we've just started talking about the secure central supply chain, by building with open source, how can we make sure that everything is secure, right? Then we know what is the contribution that's from the software that we are delivering, how can we make sure that the security posture is portable, right? We talked about workloads portability. We talked about skills portability, and experience, but really I think the next phase for us as an industry is to think about security posture portability. Can I really apply the same policy everywhere and still make sure that I have the right controls in place, which will have to be different depending on the environment, and to make sure that that really is the case. So lots of work around that, and again, talking about the other things we talked about. We talked about open and flexibility, how can you make sure that it's easy? One of the areas that we are very excited about is really around binary authorization, for example. So when you use our tools like cloud build, cloud deploy, artifact, registry, you can get your container images automatically scanned for vulnerabilities and tools like onto service mesh, which allows you to actually manage your security posture, traffic management, who can access what without doing any changes to your applications. >> Fantastic stuff. As we, as we wrap up our time here, do you have any final thoughts on the direction of cloud where we are in the adoption curve? You know, by some estimates, something like 75% of IT is still happening on premises. There've been some announcements coming out of Cloud Next regarding the ability to run all sorts of Google goodness on premises. So we seem to all be acknowledging that we're going to be in a bit of a hybrid world, in addition to a multicloud world, moving forward. Do you want to place any bets on, on when we'll hit the 50, 50 mark or the 25% on premises, 75% cloud mark. What do you think? >> Yeah, I'm not the best gambler to be honest, but I do have a thought about that. I think what's interesting is that customers started to talk, you know, few years back, it was, hey, I have my on-prem environment and I have the cloud. How can they, these two work together. And now what we see our customers talking, you know, they're on premises, their edge is part of their cloud strategy. It's not separated. And I think this is what we'll see more and more of, right? Regardless if this is your private cloud or public cloud, your edge, we would like to have a cloud like experience in that environment and consistency. And of course, we would love to leverage all the goodness of the cloud. If it's like machine learning, AI, and other capabilities, automation, everywhere we go. So I think this is the biggest change we're starting to see. And in addition to that, I think we will see, today everybody are already multicloud cloud, right? If it's recquisitions and just by cause of bottom up culture, you know, people choose different services. And I expect we'll see more strategic thinking about our customers multicloud strategy. Where do I deploy my workloads? What are the benefits? If it's latency, if it's specific services that are available, maybe cost, we'll see the customers becoming more intentional about that and this is really exciting. >> Well Chen, amazing insights. It's obvious why you're a cube veteran. It's obviously why we seek you out for your counsel and guidance on a variety of subjects. Thank you so much for spending time with us today in this cube conversation. With that I'd like to thank you for joining us. Until next time, I'm Dave Nicholson, thanks for joining (peaceful music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE, here, live in San Francisco at Masconi South. We're here with Google Cloud Next Conference. It's Google Next 2018. It's theCUBE's exclusive three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, and I'm joined with my co-host Dave Vallente. Jeff Rick's here, the whole team is here. This is a big break out moment for Google Cloud and we're going to break it down for you. Going to have interviews with Diane Green coming in today, Google Executives, Google's top women in the Cloud, top customers, and top people within the ecosystem. Google Cloud is really going to the next level. This show is really about coming out party for two years of work that Diane Green and her team have been doing, transforming Google from the largest Cloud for their own business, to making Google Cloud consumable and easy to use with the technology for large enterprise customers as well as developers around the world, global platform. Dave, we had the keynote here. I'd say Google we're seeing, introduce their Google Cloud service platform GCP certifying partners, Cisco announced on stage they are re-selling Google Cloud, which takes a big objection off the table around not having a quote, "Enterprise ready sales force". Google is in every large enterprise, Google's Cloud is morphing into a large scale technology driven Cloud. The number one advantage they have is their technology, their OpenSource, and now a partnership with Cisco, and all the machine learning and all the infrastructure that they have are bringing out a new look. This is Google's coming out party. This is really two years of hard work, that Diane Green and the team have accomplished. Working, bringing on new people, bringing on a whole new set of capabilities. Checking the boxes for the table stakes, trying to get it to pull position, for the Cloud game, obviously Amazon is significantly ahead of everybody. Microsoft making great progress, their stock is up. Microsoft, although leveraging their core confidency, the enterprise and the office, and all the existing business that they do. Again a B to B, Google bringing in end-user centric view with all the automation. Big announcements. Google Cloud services platform, Histeo is now shipping in production, doubling down on Kubernetes, this is Google looking at new abstraction layers for developers and businesses. Diane Green, not the most elegant in her keynotes, but really hitting all her marks that she needed to hit. Big customer references, and really showcasing their competitive advantage, what they want to do, the posture of Google Cloud is clear, next is the execution. >> So here at Google Next 25,000 registered people, so big crowd. Diane Green said on stage 3000 engineers here, we want to talk to you. The Cisco announcements, classic case of a company without a Cloud, wanting to partner up with somebody that has a Cloud, Google, and Google, without a big enterprise sales presence. Obviously Cisco brings that. So kind of match made in heaven. Obviously, Cisco's got relationships with other Cloud providers, particularly Microsoft but, to me this makes a lot of sense. It's going GA in August, you also saw underneath that, GKE, Google Kubernetes Engine, now it's on prem, so you're seeing recognition of hybrid. We heard Diane Green talk about two years ago when she started John, she got a lot of heat from the analysts. You're not really an enterprise company, you got a long way to go, it's going to take you a decade. She basically laid down the gun and said, we are there. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about what leadership means. You just made a comment that Amazon is obviously in the lead. What is leadership? How does Google define leadership? Clearly they're leading in aspects of the Cloud. Scale, automation, OpenSource, contributing a lot, it makes me wonder, does this hundred plus billion dollar company with a hundred billion dollars in the bank, do they really care about how much money they make in the enterprise? Or are they trying to sort of change the way in which people do development, do programming, that's maybe a form of leadership that we really haven't often seen in the industry. I mean I go back, I harken back, not that it's an exact comparison, but you think about Xerox park and all the contributions they made to the industry, think about the contributions that Google's making with TensorFlow, with Kubernetes, with Istio, a lot of OpenSource chops giving to the community. And taking their time about monetizing it, not that a couple billion dollars or billion dollars a quarter is not monetization, but compared to 25 billion of Amazon, and what Microsoft's doing it's much smaller market share. >> I mean that's a great point about the monet, all the analysts and all the Wall Street guys are going to go to try to figure out, squint through the numbers try to figure out how you make money on this. We've been talking to a lot of the Google Executives and a lot of the engineers leading up to Google Next, we've had great relationship, some of their inside people. The common theme Dave that I'm hearing is absolutely they're playing the long game, but if Google's smart, they will leverage their retail business, ads and other things, and not focus on the short-term monetization, and that's pretty clear, some of the posture. That they're looking at this as an engineering culture, engineering DNA, OpenSource DNA, and they're about speed. When I press Google people and say, "What is the DNA of Google Cloud?". It all comes back down to the same thing, inclusive, open, speed. They're going to focus on how to make things faster, that has always been the culture at Google, make page loads faster, make things go faster. Amazon has the notion of, ship things as fast as possible at lower prices. Amazon is make stuff go faster and make it easy to use from a consumer standpoint so, easy of use has always been a consumer DNA of Google, and now with Cloud, if they don't focus on the short-term, they continue to march the cadence of open, speed, ease of use, and take that user-centric view, to make things easier that's key. I'm really impressed with the announcement, one little kind of technical kind of nuance is this Istio. Istio is an extension of Kubernetes, and this is where you're starting to see some signals from Google on where they're going to be scanning through with (mumbles). And that is as Kubernetes builds on top of containers, and as Kubernetes starts to be more of an orchestration layer, the services that are deployed in the Cloud are going to have more and more functionality. This is classic moving up the stack. This is an only an opportunity to build abstraction layers, that make things really easy to consume, and make things faster. If they can get that position, that beach head, they will enable developer greatness, and that'll maybe hopefully change the game a little bit, and sling shot them into a position that's different than what Amazon, I mean, what Microsoft's doing. Microsoft's just brute force, throwing everything at Cloud. The numbers look good on paper, but will that truly translate to ease of use, large scale, global deployment, managing data at scale. I mean Google's great some technology, and that is their number one thing that they have a their disposal. >> Well Istio, the classic case of dog fooding, right John? I mean there's Google, using tons and tons of micro services for its own purposes, enter gate, how do we simplify this? How do we automate this? And how do we pay it forward? And that's what they do, that's their culture. This is a company that's, again, talk about leadership, they spent well over $10 billion a year on Capex, you can argue easily they got the biggest Cloud in the world, certainly they got more underwater cable, the biggest network in the world, so these are forms of leadership. Diane Green talked about information technology powering every aspect of the business. I mean we've heard that since Nick Carr said IT doesn't matter, but now it seems like more than ever, it's more important. She also said CIO's realized they're not in the data center business, but yet they only have a small fraction of their workloads in the Cloud. This is why she said Google is seeing, and others I'm sure, seeing such big growth in the Cloud. But then she underscored, but we're modern Cloud. We're not lift and shift Cloud. We're not doing what Oracle's doing and sticking the existing apps in the Cloud. We're doing things differently. You talk about this a lot John, you talked to a couple of really high level women in Google, about the new development model, the new programming model, they're really changing the way in which people think about software development. >> Yeah I mean I think one of the things that's clear is that, the modern era can hear around software development. Software development life cycle, certainly we hear, Agile have been going on for the DevOps movement and that's kind of been out there, but what's changing now is that software engineering, or software development, isn't just computer science. You don't need three computer science degrees to do Cloud and do development. The aperture is widening on what computer science is, that's opening up more women in tech, and as Diane Green pointed out on her keynote, there's a re-engineering of business going on, there's new discoveries happening, and half the population is women, and so women should be part of making the products consumed by women and other people. So there's a huge opportunity to fill the gender diversity gap, but more importantly I think what's interesting about Google Cloud in particular is that they kind of figured out something, and it might have been a pop to their arrogance balloon but it used to be, "Oh, everyone wants to be like Google, 'cause we're so huge and we're great". 'Cause they are. Their technology is phenomenal, you look at what Google's built and Urs has been on stage, they have built probably the best most complex system to power their business, and all of a sudden that's come out from map produced paper, Kubernetes, which they're now doubling down on, Google has done amazing. They're about 10 to 15 years ahead of the market in terms of technology by my estimate. The problem that they've had when they first started doing Cloud was, oh just, you want to be like Google. No people don't want to be like Google, people can't be like Google, what they now understand is that people want what Google has, and that's ease of use, DevOps, fully com instead of libraries, com instead of interfaces, really ease of rolling out at scale applications. That's different. People want the benefits of what Google has for their business, not, they don't want to be like Google. I think that was the, I think that Diane Green two years ago, came in and reset. They've hired great enterprise people, and the question is can they catch up? How fast can they catch up? They're checking the boxes, they're doing the table stakes, and can they harvest the best that they're making? Auto ML is a great example. IT operations is going to be decimated as an industry sector. All the industry analysts and the financial analysts have not yet observed this but, anyone who's in the business of IT operations is going to get decimated. Automation's going to take that away and make it a service, it's going to be a human component, but the value is going to shift up the stack. This is something that we're seeing as to look at value of start ups, IT operations, AI operations, this is a new category of the industry, and Google is betting on that. That to me is a big tell sign. >> And we've been talking about the economics of that for years, but I want to come back to something you said. Google clearly was late to the enterprise party, and I think part of the reason you were touching on this is I think they underestimated the degree to which organizations, enterprise in particular, have all this technical debt built up. You can't just rip out and replace, these companies are making money with their existing Oracle databases, with their existing outdated processes, but they're making money, they're meeting Wall Street expectations, they're making their big bonuses so they can't just stop doing that. It'd be like Google to your point, but Google is playing the long game, they are doing something differently, and they're trying to help people get to this new era of software development, so I think that's a very very important point. >> Melody Meckfessel, one of the VP of Engineering, she is going to announce a survey that she did. It's interesting, they pulled the human aspect of development, and they asked the question, "What do you care about?". And developers care about generally the enterprise and kind of Cloud native developers, really two things. Technical debt, and time to push code. If technical debt accumulates, that's a huge problem, makes them unhappy, makes them kind of, not happy with how things are going, and then also speed. If you're shipping code it takes more than a few minutes to get back the commits that it hit. That's a problem. This is a huge issue. You said technical debt. Enterprise IT has been accumulating decades of technical debt, that's now running the company. So as re-engineering the business theme that Diane Green points out, really is spot on, people are going to stop buying IT and be deploying services more in the future, and using those services to drive business value. This to me is a big shift, this is what's going to hurt in (mumbles) and enterprises that, no one's buying IT. They're building platforms, the product is the platform, and the sense of services will enable applications to sit on top of them. This is an absolute mindset shift, and that impacts every vertical that we cover. You've covered IOT and everything else. The way CIOs think about this is they think about a portfolio, and it's just to simplify it. It's like run the business, grow the business, transform the business. And by far, the biggest investments are in run the business, and they can't stop running the business, they can't stop investing in running that business. What they can do is say, okay we can grow the business with these new projects and these new initiatives, and we can transform the business with new models of software development, as we transform into a digital company as a software company. So that it increasingly going to be pouring investments there, and it's slowly sunset, the run the business apps. It happens over decades. It doesn't happen over night. >> Well that's actually the number one point I think that didn't come out in the keynote but Earl's talked about it, where he said the old model is lift and shift. When we covered at the Linux foundation, and the CNC app, and the other shows that we go to is that what containers and Kubernetes are bringing to the market, the real value of that, is that existing IT CIOs don't have to rip and replace old apps, and that's a lot of pressure, the engineering requirements, there's personnel requirements, there's migration, so with Kubernetes and containers, containers and Kubernetes, you can essentially keep them around for as long as they need to be around. So you can sunset the applications and let the apps take its natural life cycle course, while bringing in new functionality. So if you want to be Cloud native right out of the gate, with Google Cloud, and some of these great services, like AI and machine learning that's going on, you can actually bring it in natively, containerize and with Kubernetes and now Istio, build a set of services to connect existing applications, and not feel the pressure and the heat, the budget for it, the engineer for it, to actually hire against it, to manage the existing life cycle. This is a huge accelerant for Cloud native. The rip and replace doesn't have to happen. You can certainly sunset applications at will, but you need to kill the old, to bring in the new. This is a very very important point. >> Yeah so a couple things that Diane Green hit on that I just want to go quickly through her keynote. She talked about, like you say, a small fraction of workloads are actually in the Cloud, but she asked the question, why Google? She said "Look, we're an enterprise company, but we're a modern enterprise company. We take all the information from that Cloud, we organize it, we allow you to put it back intelligently. We've got a global Cloud and it's unbelievably complex. We've got 20 years of scaling and optimizing, with that elite team. We've the most advanced Cloud in the world". She said, she didn't give the number, but many many football size, football stadium size data centers around the world that are carbon neutral with tons of fiber under the ocean, specialized processors, talked about Spanner, which is this amazing distributed, globally distributed consistent transactional database, big query, and she also talked about a consistency with a common core set of primitives. Now I want to ask her about that, 'cause I think she was taking a shot at Amazon, but I'm not sure, if they have a, to make a similar statement, so we're going to ask her about that when she comes on. She also said, the last thing I'll share with you is, "AI and security are basically hand in hand". She said security is what everybody's worried about, AI is the big opportunity, those are the two areas where Google is putting some of its greatest resources. >> That was my favorite sound bite by the way, she said, "Security's the number one worry, and AI is the number one opportunity". Really kind of points to it. On the primitive things, I don't think that's so much a shot at Amazon, as in it's more of multi Cloud. We've been kind of seeing multi Cloud vapor ware for months, past year, 'cause it kind of is. What we were seeing with Cloud native community and OpenSource is multi Cloud can only happen if you can run the same map across multiple Clouds with common interfaces, and that ultimately is I think what they're trying to solve. My favorite sound bites from her keynote is, she said, quote, "We've got 20 years scaling Google Cloud", it's obviously very large, number one Cloud, if you want to put Clouds in benchmarks and without (mumbles) of the enterprise number one, in terms of tech and scale. But she says, "My main job at Google two years ago was surfacing the great technologies and services, and make it easy to use. We have a technical infrastructure, TI, that has big query, Spanner, and then consistencies across all primitives", and she said on top of the technical infrastructure they got Gmail, Gsuite, maps, et cetera et cetera, powering at large scale, dealing with all the threat intelligence, and a ton of body of technology around II. And then to cap it all off, leader in OpenSource. To me this is where Google's betting big, with security as the number one worry, which is a major check box with AI kind of the catnip for developers. And they got security features. If you compare Amazon to Google Cloud, Amazon wins on sense of services in terms of number of features, but the question is, does Google have the right features? These are the questions we're going to have. And the dig at Amazon was Reed Hastings, Netflix CEO, friend of Diane Green, I've seen them both speak at Stanford, so she bumped into, what she said, "Reed Hastings is a power user of Google Chrome and Gsuite", and kind of said how great it is, but that's not Netflix. Now Netflix is an Amazon customer, so interesting jab there was about Reed Hastings personally but not about Netflix being a customer of Google Cloud. The question is, can Diane Green convince Reed Hastings to move Netflix from Amazon to Google Cloud? That's the question I'm going to ask her. >> The other piece of the keynote that I thought was quite interesting was Urs Holzle, who's the Senior Vice President of Technology Infrastructure who was doing Cloud before anybody talked about Cloud, he said, "Cloud's a fundamental shift in computing. GCP gives you access to unlimited computing on the world's largest network". Talked about Spanner, the globally consistent distributed database, ML APIs for doing speech and natural language recognition. Big query, the big data warehouse, basically a silo buster, but he said what's still missing, is essentially that hybrid (mumbles) all the Cloud's are different. I interpreted that meaning closed. So he said, "Things like setting up a network, provisioning a virtual machine, are all different". And basically to your point John, that stuff is going to get automated away. So Istio, they talked about Apogee, visibility, orchestration, serverless, they talked about GKE on prem, which is Google Kubernetes Engine on prem, and then Cisco came out on stage. The big partnership, the big news from the keynote. >> Lets talk about what we're going to look for this week in Google Cloud, and also within the industry. Dave I'll start. I'm looking for Google's technology architecture map, which I love, I think they've got a great solution, does that translate to the enterprise? In other words, can they take what Google has and make it usable and consumable for enterprises without having the be like Google strategy, use what Google has benefited from, in a way that enterprises can consume. I'm going to look for that, see how the technology can fit in there. And then I think the most important thing that I'm going to swing through all the hype here and the comment and the news and Kool Aid that they're spreading around, is how are they making the ecosystem money? Because if Google Cloud wants to take the long game, they got to secure the beach head of the viable, large scale Cloud which I think they're doing extremely well. Can they translate that into a ecosystem flourishing market? Does that make money for developers? They talk about going into verticals as a core strategy and healthcare being one. Can they go in there, in financial services, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media, and attract the kind of partners and business customers that allow them to do better business? Does it translate the distribution for developers? Do businesses make more money with Google? That to me is the ultimate tell sign with how Google Cloud translates to the market place. Ecosystem, benchmark, and value to customers in terms of money making, utility of the users, and their customers' customers. >> So two things for me John. One is the same as yours is ecosystem. I learned from the SiliconANGLE editorial team, by the way, go to siliconangle.com, there's some great editorial to drop this week in support of just what's going on in Cloud and Google Next, but I learned from reading that stuff, Google late to the party. Only 13,000 partners. Amazon's got 100,000 Cloud partners. (mumbles) has 70,000 Cloud partners. Where, what's the ecosystem strategy, how are they going to grow? How are they going to help make money? The second thing is, basic question, I want to understand what Google wants in the Cloud. What's their objective? I know Amazon wants to dominate infrastructures of services, and be the leader there. I know that Microsoft wants to take its existing software state, bring it to the Cloud. I'm not really clear on what exactly Google's objectives are. So I want to get clarity on that. >> I think it's going to be developers, and one of the things we're going to dig into as the OpenSource. theCUBE coverage here in San Francisco, live coverage of three days wall-to-wall, (mumbles) Dave Vallante, stay with us. thecube.net is where you can find the live feed if you're watching this on SiliconANGLE or around the web, or with Syndicate. Go to thecube.net to get all the content, and siliconangle.com has a Cloud special this week. The team is putting out a ton of content. Covering the news, critical analysis, and what it means and the impact of Google Cloud into the industry and to their customers. So I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, stay with us, live coverage here, be right back. (electronic music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Orlando, Florida. Happy to welcome to the program, welcome back to the program first, Vinu Thomas, who's the CTO of Presidio and welcome to the program for the first time Brad Haczynski, who's a general manager with Intel. Gentleman, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu for having us. >> Alright so, we're about the midway point of the show. It actually been many years since I'd been at Cisco Live. 26,000 people here. Seeing a large transformation in what's going on from Cisco, you know, still dominant in the network space, but talk a lot about cloud. We're here in the DevNet Zone, where, you know, one of the big news pieces was 500,000 developers registered on the platform here. What's your take been of the show so far? >> Yeah, I mean Presidio has been a long term proud partner with Cisco. We've been a gold and master partner for the longest time. As Cisco started to really transition into the software design world, Presidio started investing along with Cisco. So back at the DevNet Zone, you'll find that Presidio has a number of showcase items about DevOps, especially about things like Cat9k and HyperFlex. So we are excited on this partnership with Cisco, and with Intel, and what we are trying to do. So, good times. >> Yeah, Brad, same for you. >> Oh absolutely. I think this is my fifth Cisco Live. And seeing the evolution of Cisco as they traverse from becoming a hardware centric company into a company that's truly evolving around software, and services, and capabilities. As the world becomes more complicated, they're truly innovating in ways to create the business outcomes that customers are looking for in these complicated environments. And as Intel, it's been really exciting because we transform into a data centric company. We talk a lot about that. The Intel technology has been the underpinning of many of the Cisco technologies that are continuing then down this path. And of course our great partnership with Presidio it's a great triangulation effect and it's great to see at Cisco Live. >> Vinu, change isn't always easy. I think back actually, you know, I've worked a long time on the vendor side. And when Cisco came out with UCS and started doing things like Vblock, you know there were some folks at Presidio who were like, "We make a lot of money racking, stacking, cabling" "these solutions." Conversion infrastructure, hyper conversion structure, cloud solutions. Talk a little bit about the partnership. How Presidio's been, you know, helping to expand and mature with these offerings. >> Yeah, you know the whole digital transformation is the one that's driving this move from legacy three tier architecture into conversation to hyper conversion to multicloud. And what we've realized along this journey is we had to transform ourselves. So we went from saying, "You know, look we wanted to be" "the number one digital transformation" "solutions provider building secure" "digital infrastructure in a multicloud world." And for us to be in a position to put that vision into execution, we had to really partner with Cisco, partner with companies like VMware and Vblock and obviously the other providers in the hyper converg space and also with Intel to really try and take our ability to, not just rack and stack, but to design solutions so we created what we call as Presidio Data Center Solutions Set where we bring all this together. We're able to do some custom modification on these things. And we had to that because that's what our customers were asking us for. And then wrap that around with managed services so we can essentially offer a true platform as a service. >> Yeah, I'd love to hear from your viewpoint. What are your customers saying to you when you know, they say "I've got a cloud strategy" or "I'm building my cloud strategy." What does that mean to them? What's important to them? And you know, I'm sure you got solutions that fit. >> Yeah, we, you know Stu, we've seen a slight change. It used to be that it was a cloud first strategy. And now I would kinda as a cloud right strategy. Which is let me choose the right cloud for the right type of workload. Make sure that I have an optimized workload placement in which cloud. One of the value adds that we bring is we can evaluate all those workloads and applications and your use cases, like your data center, and then recommend to you, in partnership with Cisco and Intel, what is the right placement for your workload. Now when you look at what is coming up in the future is, you know, the world is getting into containers. And you look at Cisco's strategy with containers. You know, their Cisco container platform, what they're doing with Google, Presidio's right in the center of that along with Intel. Where we are building solutions in a multicloud fashion. So HyperFlex for the on-prem. Running on top of HyperFlex is a Cisco container platform and then we are able to then take that and merge that with Google Cloud. That's what customers want. They want that flexibility to say, "If this is the workload that needs to be on-prem, great." "If this is something that I need to move" "as my applications get containerized," that's what they want to go to. >> Yeah, Brad. You've got a large team playing in all of these environments. I remember, you know, optimization for virtualization, back in the day. When I was first learning about containers, Intel Developer Form was one of the places I went to go learn about this. Build on what Vinu was saying as to, you know, where your teams are making bets and helping to, you know, optimize and build solutions for customers. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think Vinu said it very well. Especially if your auger in on the world of cloud. One of the challenges, I think, enterprise customers have really had is, it's about cloud's economics. I think that's basically the underpinning of what Vinu was talking about is the economies of scale and capability of the large public cloud service providers have caused most enterprise customers to pause. So I think what customers are really looking for is, "How do I deploy applications?" The scalability with ease of deployment while having policy round security, networking, compute storage, et cetera. And then move the applications around the data center. What Intel does is we work very closely with Cisco as they're designing a lot of these platforms. HyperFlex is an example is you know, utilizing, best utilizing some of the underpinnings of the C compiler or whether it's the ISL instruction set. The storage acceleration libraries which are part of the CPU telemetry. In which they can, you know, take the code from Springpath and really fine tune it to get the best performance. And then by the time, you know, Presidio gets it in house, they further fine tune it for the customer needs. So it's just a great triangulation. And then we want a scale when Cisco scales in the market, Intel wins. Across the entire stack of compute, network, and storage. So, therefore, it's very very you know, we're all in the same boat rowing in the same direction. >> It's a very good cohesive partnership. >> Yes, cohesiveness. >> It's so funny, cuz so much has wave. We talk a lot about simplicity. And it's like, oh well, you know, HCI and public cloud we're gonna make it really simple. It's gonna be heterogeneous. Some people like, oh remember it was like white box and nothing fancy. It's like, underneath the covers there's a lot that goes in to make sure that. I say we're in a world of hyper optimization. >> Yes. >> Because there's a lot of things that have to. Talk a little bit about that balance. >> So a perfect example of that is what we build in partnership with Intel and Cisco is a Presidio Data Center Solutions Set. So the challenge our customers were having is, yeah, it's great to get a hyper converg, but the hyper converg has to plug into something. It has to be on a rack. It has to be, you know, power cooling has to be measured. You know, we have to get telemetry data you know, using Intel CPUs. So what we decided to do was, we built a custom based solution, call it a cloud in a box, with hyper converged, with the networking gear in it, with advance software solutions, with power cooling, and we wrapped around our professional services and managed services. And what we also helped our customers to do is if they decided that they want to consume this as a service in a OpEx model, we could do that. If they wanted to do it in a CapEx, we could do that. So we made it very flexible. Because it's not just about hyper converg. Hyper converg has to connect. Hyper converg has to be load balanced. Then there's a possibility that you want to connect to a GCP or an AWS so, there was a lot of things that we could do with that. >> Yeah Brad, we talk about customers want to have a similar operating model. Whether it's in their data center or you know, outside of their environment. You know, I think Intel at the bottom layer helps but how do you help make sure there's flexibility as customers choose all of their various solutions in a multicloud world? >> Well, first and foremost, I think that has a lot to do with, we have a significant partnership with most of the public cloud service providers. It's no secret that, you know, whether it's GCP, it's AWS or it's Azure, or even Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, that these data centers are built upon Intel technologies. And then as you get back into the on-prem data center at the enterprise, the close work we do with Cisco and with partners like Presidio. I'll give you a perfect example is, when you look at one of the strengths Cisco's had traditionally over the years, it's this developer community. And it was the developer community what seems to have been born in networking and the networking spaces, and it's really created scale for Cisco. Well as you look at the nascent technologies there's two things we see. One is application developers inside of the enterprise IT, don't have a simple way to build applications. So they go do a swipe on AWS. Start a instantiation to write an application, but with things like OpenShift and working with Cisco on a redhat, enterprise easy DevOps platform, or things like container development. We work very closely with Google and GKE on the Kubernetes development and the Kubernetes engine. As well as with Cisco. And then so, when you bring that all together and you say, "Now we have a developer community" "of a technology, which is clearly the future," "which is containers." And Cisco working with Intel, Cisco working with Presidio, Intel working with Presidio, it's really a three legged stool. And how do we refine the capabilities and also help define the future roadmap requirements in order to become, add more value for the customers. >> And I think that's a, just to, you know, piggyback to what Brad said. I think that's a key aspect too, right, is. When you look at our customers when they ask us to come up with stuff. Cisco, Presidio, Intel, we're not shy to make those investments, because there might be customer requirements that are very unique. And it's almost bespoke. That we have to work on those kind of solutions and it's great to have partners that are ready to invest with us and make those investments, and, you know, make those changes. >> Great. Want to give you both a final world. What should we look for going forward? You know, some areas, maybe, that you're pushing new solutions in? You talked about, you know, analytics and the like. >> Yup. >> What should we look for as the partnership continues to grow in the future? >> Yeah so, when you look at Presidio's go to market here, we are focused on three key areas. One is digital infrastructure, multicloud, and then security. And in addition we want to really focus on data analytics and business insights. So, digital infrastructure for us is the whole software defined infrastructure. That's getting more and more automated and orchestrated. Multicloud, you know, you gonna see us make more investments in container technology as well as working with companies like Google and Intel, and the whole GKE, the Google Kubernetes engine. And then in the security part at the end of the day, everything we do has to be secure. It's not about pulling point products, it has to be a full fledged strategy. And then the last thing our customers are asking us is "We've build us this software defined infrastructure," "in a multicloud along with security." "Can you give me business insights?" So this is where we are working very closely with Intel and Cisco on tetration, which is the whole network flow and security analytics that, you know, obviously is powered by the telemetry from Intel CPUs, and you're gonna see us make more investments there with tetration, with you know, obviously app dynamics and companies like, Splunk. So. I think that's what you're gonna see us do a lot in the future. >> Yeah, I think, well said Vinu. And I think at a very basic level, all of this software, all the complexity, all of the security is gonna require more insatiable desire for Compute. But Intel's clearly investing beyond Compute. We're very open about becoming a data centric company, looking at about how this tidal wave of data's coming in a world of billions of connected devices. So as Intel continues to invest, whether it's in FPGAs, storage memory technologies, you know, the blog for the launch of HyperFlex 3.5 just went out, an all NVNe version, of HyperFlex. And then we're gonna talk on Thursday about using Optane, Intel Optane technology as a caching tier. FPGAs, over into silicon photonics technology. There's just a wealth of capabilities in silicon, that Intel's bringing the market to bear. And working with our partners, again like, Presidio to understand. By the way, the way we do business at Intel is, we have an account team that also calls on Presidio. And what we do is, our team triangulates with them. So Presidio is understanding the future roadmap of technologies from Intel at the same time Cisco's understanding it. Cisco then can innovate on platforms based on Intel technologies, but as Presidio knows what's comin' down the pike, they can start building their plans for how they can then take it from Cisco's hands, further encapsulate it in a valuable offering, say cloud in a box as you said so well, and deliver easy business outcomes for the customers. >> Yup. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. For a long we watched the tick tock coming out of Intel, as what drove innovation and you know, new advancements in the industry. Now everyone's moving faster, even Intel. You know, it's not the chip itself that is the you know, driving factor of all the change. So, Brad, Vinu, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. >> Absolutely, thank you Stu. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> Really appreciate all the updates and congrats on the progress. >> Thank you. Alright we'll be back here with lots more coverage three days wall to wall coverage of Cisco Live 2018 here in Orlando. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Live, from Orlando Florida, it's The Cube! Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is The Cube's coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Orlando. We're in the middle of the Devnet Zone. Happen to have a panel of distinguished guests on the program. To my right, I have Dave Cope who's with Cisco. To his right, Bob Krentler with Google Cloud. And, down on the end, Lars Dannecker who's with SAP. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Nice to be here. >> Alright, so Dave, we're going to start. Cloud has been a big discussion, you're the senior director of cloud market development. >> Right. >> I think I know why Google's here. We had Diane Green up on the main stage with Chuck Robbins yesterday. But, before we get into it, what are you hearing from customers? When they think of cloud, what does that mean and connect that with Cisco? >> Yeah, I mean, you think about it, everything we hear about has something to do with cloud today. And, what's amazing is cloud is really only nine to ten years old. And we've seen it go through this, sort of, evolution from skepticism to debating about public and private to today, everyone realizing that it's all about hybrid cloud. Being able to logically place different workloads in different environments. And so, in almost everything we hear about, it has something to do with that notion of hybrid cloud. How do I secure those environments? How do I develop new applications? So, it's really everywhere. >> Alright, so Bob, you know, we've been watching Google since it entered the cloud. Of course, we had a team at the Kubernetes Show in Copenhagen just a month ago. We're excited to bring The Cube to your cloud show, Google Cloud Next this July in San Francisco. >> We are too. >> So, we think we know a little bit about what Google's doing in cloud, but from your with the Alliance's side of things, tell us a little bit about your role, what you're hearing from your customers and partners when it comes to cloud. >> Yeah, thanks again for the opportunity. So, yeah, Google Cloud is everything from the undersea cables that Google uses to move data around the world all the way up through G-Suite, alright. And, we develop this really cool hybrid cloud partnership with Cisco, kind of in response to some of the same problems that Google itself had to face. Largely, we had to be able to securely and scaleably deploy applications all over the world. So, customers are asking us, hey, how do I move to that world while not disrupting the infrastructure I've already purchased? So, how do I get the disruptive cloud technologies without disrupting myself? Right, and so what we developed with Cisco is this approach to meet you where you are as a developer or the customer that allows you to get the advantages of cloud while maintaining the infrastructure you already purchased. And, it's a great partnership with Cisco because of the security aspects that they bring, the sales and support that Cisco brings, as well as Google's technology in the cloud. >> Alright, so Lars you're the only one who doesn't have cloud in their title. So you're a big data architect. Look, we had a part of our team was here last week, the same building, for SAP Sapphire last week. Remember when we first started The Cube was the wave of mobile. But, absolutely, we hear SAP at every single one of the cloud events that we go to. So, from your role, how does cloud fit in to the story? >> So, I don't have cloud in my title, but big data in the title. And this is a great connection to the cloud. Because, what we are seeing with our customers is that they more an more move, let's say especially data that is regarded as big data, into the cloud. So, we have this combination of having enterprise data in your data center secure, but you still want to utilize what you have and capabilities in the cloud. Like, for example, machine learning with Google or cheap storage that you can utilize with other cloud vendors so that you can basically store huge amounts of data inside of a secure storage. >> Alright, great, I almost feel like we're going up the stack when we went through it. You know, Cisco, the infrastructure, Google certain pieces of it, SAP really at the application. Can you bring us back to Lars's, how the SAP piece connects to Cisco. >> Yeah, so as I said, what we are serving especially a need for is hybrid environments. Right, that you have your central system still in your data centers, but you want to connect to cloud environments and you want to bring, in principle, the cloud to your on-premise systems. That you have the best of both worlds. And this is also what SAP is basically about, to enable customers to do so and to bring products out that actually go in the direction of hybrid could and allow customers to go into more increasingly complex landscapes but still manage them in a, let's say, sophisticated way. >> Alright, Dave, I think back when I think of Cisco and partnerships, very rigorous programs out there. Spent many years looking at all the CVDs which is the Cisco Validated Designs. When we get into the cloud world, fill us in as to how that partnership expands and what's similar and what's different. >> If you look at the heritage of Cisco around networking and also infrastructure, but you're also seeing a huge evolution towards software. And so, a lot of what we're doing in the cloud has really software solutions whether it be the Cisco Container Platform that actually works with he Cisco Google Solution and also works with SAP's data hub. And we ensure, we still though have the rigor of things like CVDs, so this software can be proven to run on infrastructure environments that Cisco provides or provide customers the choice to run it on their own environment. And, of course, when it runs on Cisco infrastructure, it does have that CVD that gives customers and partners that confidence that it's already tested and that it works. >> Great, Bob, Kubernetes container, something we heard about on-stage, that the main thing that Google and Cisco are partnering on, walk us through a little bit, some of the announcements, what people might have missed. >> Yeah, so I think in general, our hybrid cloud solution at Google is very, very strong. I think what we're doing with Cisco is the most important missing piece. Which is, to be able to deliver and on-prem experience that customers are comfortable with, developers are comfortable with first and foremost, but also everyone behind the firewall essentially is very happy with. The security folks, the IT operations folks, I mentioned developers, and, of course, the line of business. So, yes, we're investing heavily with Cisco to bring Kubernetes and containers on-prem and we're really excited with the work we're doing with SAP in that space as well. We're also working with Cisco on an open-source initiative called Istio, essentially helps you do networking between microservices and containers. It's in a declarative way, right, really nice. And then, I think, overall, just the overall partnership with Cisco is very, very strong. We've been very happy with Cisco for a very long time. And, I think, customers are really starting to understand that this journey to the cloud is not one size fits all and certainly there's a lot of workstreams you have in flight. It's modernizing the existing application. That's one workstream. But, at the same time, you want to move to more cloud-native applications. So, we're really bring that, best of both worlds to the customer base. >> And, I think too, I mean we announced the relationship formally last October and it was really based on the fact that we had a shared vision that, while everybody wants to use the cloud, they didn't always have to think they had to refactor their applications or lift and shift and there's definitely use cases to do that. But, also, we had this vision that they wanted to be able to adopt the cloud at their own pace. Maybe give traditional applications a facelift with powerful services from people like Google or maybe they wanted to use cool new development tools on the cloud like on Google Cloud and still have access to legacy systems. And so, it really was a marriage of the best of both companies. Sort of, Cisco's traditional enterprise discipline, sales and support, along with developer, cool technology, sort of the father of Kubernetes and also a very powerful cloud services from Google. >> Yeah, I would just say, like right out of the gate, to make it really tangible, this is the way to do CICD. For hybrid, period. And, if you're a developer today, learning, that's, kind of, what you know, you use Spinnaker and you deploy, that's what you're going to be able to do here. And I just really think that that's a really strong message from Google, like, we're very, very big into open source. And that resonates with developers and I think it really resonates the buyers of Cisco gear. I mean, developers are expensive, you want to free them up to do, abstract things away. And that's what we're doing, abstract, abstract, abstract, until you can get more velocity out of all of your investments, whether that's people, infrastructure, or your own time. >> Just one last thought on that is that while we're talking a lot about cloud native, working with traditional systems, etc., applications need to feed on data and so that why, it's really this perfect marriage with the data hub. Because now, whether you're aggregating data on-prem or want to reach out to, like, Google Cloud to get aggregated data, it really is the best of all worlds. >> Yeah, well, when we look at cloud, cloud really is much more of an operational model than it is a destination and it's the data and the applications that ultimately is the life blood of our business, that's what is important for our business. So, yeah, Lars, would love your commentary on what you're hearing from the developer side, from customers that they're moving here. >> So, just short, the data hub is basically a tool to manage those complex landscapes and get a holistic data landscape view on the entire data of your company. So, it's a bridge between enterprise data and big data if you want. And, I think a little bit more than one year back, we were searching for a platform that allows us to deploy the data hub on-premise and in the cloud and that's what we found with Kubernetes which is an awesome abstraction platform for us. Because we don't need to necessarily care now what is the native deployment, we just need to make sure that our application runs on Kubernetes. So, that's why the data hub is running natively on Google Cloud platform and especially Google Kubernetes engine. And it is running the same way on-premise. And that's enabling us to provide, let's say a tool that can manage those hybrid landscapes, the data landscape, in such a way. And that's why, for us, it's a perfect thing. On the one hand side, you have this stable platform with Google Kubernetes engine in the cloud, and, then, partner with Cisco to bring basically the Cisco container platform on-premise. So, for us, now it means just we have on all the different aspects, we have a way to deploy our software and then bring customers value in the cloud, on-premise and in hybrid environments. >> But Dave, I would love to hear your commentary on really how do customers get support for all of this. Cause, one of the challenges always was, well, you know, I build my temple from my application and then, you know, I need to test it out and it took a long time, you know. The old time, it used to be, "oh yeah, 12, 18 months, "no problem, throw a million bucks on it, it's great." Today, it's "I need to move faster." We're talking about developers. If it's not up and running and proven within a few months, probably you failed and you better move on or we're gonna look to some other group to do that. How has this dynamic changed? Walk us through the partnership, support, how do customers, from the application all the way down be able to turn and get from partners like yourselves. >> Yeah, I think that, so look, the customers today want it all, right. They need to maintain investments, extend investments that they have in traditional systems but they want to take advantage of these new, really cool technologies like microservices, like, sort of, data hub, data aggregation and they don't want somebody knocking on their door and saying, "hey, I'll sell you anything "as long as you want to buy this." So, I think Cisco, along with its partners has evolved to the point to be able to align customer initiatives with solutions and it can never be just be from one vendor. And so, Cisco is working very hard to partner with people like Google and SAP to truly meet the needs of extending those traditional systems but also accelerating their application development, using these new technologies and getting them all to work together. So it really is a new way to approach the market. >> Just to second this Dave, so for us it was like, when we're talking on-premise, we don't have to launch like in the cloud. In the cloud, we have Kubernetes as a managed service. So, so far, we had to say when we go on-premise with the data hub that the customer needs to provide us a Kubernetes cluster. And this is a major challenge because the adoption of Kubernetes on the customer's side is, it's a new technology, right? It's not that high. >> It's not trivial to do. >> Exactly, it's not trivial to do, to operate and things like that. And now, we're providing a solution, a hybrid cloud solution that is a turn-key solution so you can plug it in to your rack, you push the power button, everything is up an running, and you can use it. And that's a major step even in the direction of adoption of Kubernetes and a major step in the adoption of hybrid cloud solutions. >> And I would add, I mean our engineering teams are working like side-by-side. So, essentially, you're are mutual customer here and, from a provider point of view, like, our engineers are working directly with Cisco's engineers to make sure that GKE is in-sync with Cisco's deployment. And so, as a customer, you can have confidence that those things are going to work. And you mentioned support earlier, Cisco's tack will actually support the front end of this and we'll support them on the back end. They work directly with our engineering team already. >> And they really kind of go hand in hand with your point is that anytime you get truly a valuable solution today, I think it spans multiple companies and we really owe it to our customers to integrate those things together. But, at the same time, they don't want to have to go necessarily to all three of our companies independently to get support or maybe ten other startups that might have components in it. And so, as Cisco rolls this out, we're working with these companies to provide that single point of technical support. >> Yeah, I mean I went to a session with Chuck Robbins last night for dinner and he said basically what all Cisco customers know is like Cisco generally gets things right, but when they do mess up, they will get in there and make it right immediately. And, I think that's what customers really, really love about Cisco and that's what we love about the partnership. >> And it's super important in the enterprise market, right? Especially important for enterprises. I mean, just imagine an enterprise running their critical systems on this platform and you need really someone who is there when there's a problem, right. And that's why this is a great partnership with all three parties. >> Absolutely. >> Last question, Bob, maybe we've got your event coming up in a couple of months, what should we be looking for from these partnerships going forward? >> Yeah, so, speaking broadly about Google Cloud partnerships. Certainly we do a lot with SAP, we do a lot with Cisco. I think Cisco already has signed on to be the top sponsor, one of the top sponsors of Google Cloud Next. Thanks Dave. We'll be doing much more with Cisco. I think we're also gonna do some stuff with developers. You know, we're in the Devnet community here. Cisco Devnet has like 500,000 developers. We totally love that and we're working on a couple things. So, stay tuned for that. And I think from our partnership, we're looking forward to showing some really great customer wins and having customers who are really successful. And, like Diane and Chuck were talking about, really bringing, kind of this cloud disruption. Right, disrupts in the business world but keep your IT as an advantage, right. Make it so that your IT can help you win more as a business. And we're gonna try to deliver more of that with these guys. >> Well, Dave, Bob, and Lars, thank you so much for coming to talk about the partnership. Cube will be at Google Cloud Next in July and the future is so bright for cloud, we better wear shades. So, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching The Cube.

>> Announcer: From Copenhagen, Denmark, it's the Cube. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018, brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to the Cube's exclusive coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark for KubeCon 2018, part of the CNCF, the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation, I'm John Furrier cohost of the Cube, here with my cohost this week Lauren Cooney, the founder of Spark Labs. Got two great guests in the industry here, Lew Tucker, the CTO of Cloud Computing for Cisco Systems and Aparna Sinha who's the group project manager for Google Cloud, thanks for coming on, great to see you guys. >> Great to be here >> Thanks for having us. >> So obviously the two big players, you've got networking, you've got moving up the stack and Google Cloud with all the goodness you have hundreds of people here at this show. Cloud native big, you're cloud native, >> Aparna: Yeah. >> You guys are running the networks a lot of stuff's happening, but the big story's the Kubernetes de facto standard position that's been echoed by many people here, Kubernetes tightly controlled core with a lot of innovation going on around Kubernetes. >> Aparna: Yes. >> When I hear words like de facto standards, it reminds me of the old networking days when the OSI model and the TCPIP was forming. Massive shifts at that point. >> Lew: Yeah, yeah. >> Almost a seminal moment now. >> Yeah but in fact I think in open source it's a different notion than in the old days of standards. Here we've got multiple communities, multiple companies that are working together to create a common platform and that's what I think the success of open source is about. So actually, Kubernetes coming into CNCF has really makes that possible and we just graduated it so we should have a celebration around Kubernetes now has graduated in terms of a CNCF project. >> Yeah and you know one think I would say about de facto standard, I don't take that for granted. Kubernetes is built as a platform that runs anywhere across on premises, data centers, public clouds, runs anywhere but, you know that it will be or is a de facto standard is something that we don't take for granted. We make sure in the community that we're working on increase support for, for example different types of storage with a storage interface standard, different types of networking, with a CNI different types of run times, so establishing those interfaces and establishing those standards is key to making it the platform. But that's certainly the potential of Kubernetes is to be-- >> Yeah I mean it's not the end game, it's the beginning. >> Aparna: It is. >> And the nurturing and making sure that ecosystem with thrive is important. And that's why I want to get your thoughts, 'cause you've got Google and Cisco here so lets talk about first the relationship, you guys are working together. >> Lew: Absolutely, yeah. >> Talk about the relationship between Google and Cisco. >> Sure, I think it came about because we're both recognizing that enterprises for example are incorporating cloud computing as a part of their overall IT strategy. And so they needed to find a way, how can they actually make that happen without companies that are working in both of those areas getting together. So it's very natural I think for the two of us to sort of come together because this way we can take our enterprise customers and using Kubernetes as sort of the foundational platform make it so that they can run applications wherever they want, they can run it in their private data center they can run it in Google Cloud, and we can make this now, to provide a lot of the networking so that you can extend private networks into Google Cloud and vice versa, so I think it's a marriage made in heaven in that way. >> Aparna you're reaction to the partnership. >> Yeah, you know, Google is a very developer friendly, developer focused company, always has been, you know the majority of Google is actually developers so it's a company for developers by developers and you know with Google Cloud actually the irony is we're also a networking company and so there's a nice affinity working with Cisco. Our DNA is very much open source, there's multiple projects that have come out of Google that have been very successful open source projects. I mean Tenser Flow, Kubernetes I think is unique in that we've really created and participated and built a community around it and so with this partnership, we're really excited to have Cisco also be part of the community, certainly with Kubernetes but also the Istio Project. And a lot of the projects in cloud native have come from Google's experience running services at global scale. Kubernetes certainly came that way from the Borg heritage and then Istio also from, from what we call one platform, internally to manage service. >> That's a great point, you brought up scale and it's interesting, it's almost like you have two large scale companies here, you have Cisco with massive scale footprint of enterprises from day one, routers you need to move packets around the internet. You guys have built scale for Google with millions of services out there, millions of users, I mean it's unprecedented. So now as you come into the enterprise, the Cisco relationship is an opportunity to blend the best of Google with the footprint at Cisco, how is that going to work, how's that working and what's the vision? I mean obviously it's a nice match, you've got a great footprint in the enterprise, you've got massive scale with the cloud, bringing that in, moving it out, hybrid cloud obviously, is that the? >> Yeah well we often notice for example as I sort of said, the foundational piece is actually running Kubernetes everywhere and so we just recently announced a Cisco container platform which is based on Kubernetes, that means that enterprises now can develop applications in Google Cloud and then run them in their enterprises or vice verse and then on top of that and we're adding in the networking capabilities, through things such as CSR and things like that to allow us to connect both the enterprise and their public cloud running Kubernetes and then Istio as we're mentioning is this thing on top and I'm, as you know, a big fan of where that really is going to take us because I think one of the things that enterprises want to be able to do is that they want to be able to consume services out of Google Cloud, whether it be in kind of terms of the data services or increasingly AI, intelligence service, Tenser Flow, be able to use as a part of their enterprise applications and so I have within my team for example contributed both in terms of what we're doing in terms of Istio, Kubernetes, I've got people on my team who are bringing for example IPB6 into Kubernetes, that's important because, guess what, service providers also want to move into a container world. And then also Cube Flow and so all of these things are starting to come together so that you can start building applications as an assembly of these services and many other services that I will see coming from the public cloud and Google in particular. >> Aparna, I want to ask you, because this is important to distinguish this Istio trend because we asked a lot of people at the Cube here and in our reporting, okay what's next after Kubernetes? If you have a de facto standard, you have stuff coming around it, an eco system, everyone talks about service mesh and Istio project. >> Aparna: Yeah. >> Now the best thing about infrastructure as code which is dev ops in the cloud is you can make things programmable and automate, so if you look at what Istio's doing, it feels like an application benefit but also an automated networking concept with services. >> Aparna: Sure. >> So you got kind of a new dynamic going on where a lot of dynamic things are happening a lot of services are being provisioned, maybe for the first time. >> Aparna: Yeah, yeah. >> So how do you instrument it? This is going to be a future area of innovation. >> So again going back to that standard, right? That platform that runs everywhere, why is it a standard, why is it becoming a standard and I hear this from our customers, our users, it's because they don't have to train multiple times for multiple different environments, they can really scale their workforce, they can hire people that they trained up in Kubernetes and they can scale that workforce so it applies regardless of where they go and it gives them that mobility and if you think about the eco system around Kubernetes right so Kubernetes is one project, a major big project but then the eco system around Kubernetes has really exploded in the last year it has gone from 4000 projects to 15000 projects and I was looking through those projects and seeing you know, which are the ones that have the most stars and there's actually three projects that stood out as having more than 3000 stars but being new, like in the last year and Istio was at the top of that list and obviously it's very popular in terms of the number of stars but it's only one year old and I don't know how much people know that. >> And I think it's interesting, 'cause I'm going to throw kind of a curve ball here at you and say, you know I'm hearing that the service mesh is actually, people are using it. >> Aparna: Yes. >> But it's actually hasn't been deployed into production, is that the case? >> Aparna: It's starting to be. >> Okay. >> So on GKE, Google Kubernetes Engine we've got customers that are deploying Istio, it's starting. >> Lauren: Okay. >> Again it's a one year old project and then also on premise, using the open source and we've got a program called the EEPE program it's like an early program, they're deploying and using Istio and it tends to be a very nice attach to Kubernetes. >> So what is the use case for that? >> One of the things to understand, it is very new and less than a year old, we're not even at a one dot out yet but the components that go into it, Envoy for example has been battle tested because Istio's made up of, just to get technical, in terms of having proxies that make up the data plane and that's battle testing or whatever. So now we're adding a control plane on top of that, where policy, telemetry, observability, all of that comes to the fore. That's what's new. So bringing that together and so people have and Istio's not the only service mesh, service meshes have actually been made up of these proxies and have you manage them, Istio's just seems to be a better way to the community is agreeing-- >> A proxy can be very inefficient, so I want to just ask a question on that because one of the things that I'm trying to understand is for the average person in tech, not the inside baseball, they're trying to understand why is Istio so powerful. >> Aparna: Yes. >> So is there, what paid points are they solving? >> The easiest way to think about that is we've moved to a microservices architecture and that's so that every development team can focus on their particular area of expertise, they don't want to have to learn networking and everything else, so what we've done is we've offloaded all of the issues around how do you do load balancing, circuit breakers and telemetry off to a service mesh, that allows the developer to dramatically increase their productivity because they're only focused on their one application area and now the operations team brings that together through the networking concept. >> Aparna: Yes. >> So they built a distributed application without having to know very much about the specificity. >> Yes, it's very much that separation of concern and you know Kubernetes has the same principle, it separates you know the infrastructure from the applications and what Istio does, it allows you to manage those applications at scale, visualize them, make them secure and to control them in a scalable way, so you're not writing the service management pieces into the application and the developer is therefor freed from that burden and the application operations team can then manage things like distributing certificates or rotating certificates, right? Those are things you need to do across all of your services. >> So you're bringing us on that system and I know you guys run at scale, hundreds of thousand of services, if not more, I don't know what the number is, millions whatever it is. >> Aparna: Four million containers. >> Tons. >> Aparna: A week! >> So when you talk about that, what I'm hearing and I've talked to the SRE, site reliable engineers before, the roll of the admin is gone to more of an operator and then the operator role is less of an operating, 'cause it's operating only on exception, 'cause if you got policy in the control plane, that seems to be where the action is, is that, am I getting that right? How do you explain that notion of less admin, more operational kind of-- >> There is a change in roles, the administration of the application is not so application specific if you will, right? And I think the best analogy to it is the way we do development at Google, everybody is a developer right? And they write their services but there's a lot of common infrastructure that you do not replicate so for example storage, monitoring, logging, you know publishing your API, you know quotas, rate limiting, chargebacks, billing, all of that is common infrastructure, you write your service, it is immediately using all of that infrastructure, you don't build those things into your application and that has so many benefits, you know you can write your service and it can be global. >> So on time savings, no brainer, automation-- >> And when you change any one of those services that has a monitoring or anything, now you don't have to tell the application development team that that change is happening. >> So this is infrastructure as code, passes the test right? You can program the infrastructure. >> This is services, this is a services world, rather than infrastructure world or an application siloed world, this is the world of services, that's really what we're here for. >> What's the growth in microservices? I'm seeing different stats, can you just give an order of magnitude, just from your own personal experience in looking at the market, how fast is the notion of microservices growing? 'Cause this is really the proxy for the cloud native shift. And you guys are certainly micro services oriented, we talk about this all the time, any data or any anecdotes around growth of microservices? >> Well I mean there's a lot of surveys and most of the surveys point towards, I think containers are a good proxy, you know 88 percent of enterprises are using containers, it's becoming, whether you move to the cloud or not actually containers are basically a way of doing things more repeatedly, giving you efficiency from an infrastructure perspective giving you reliability so that you know you can basically exchange out the hardware and your container environment is still resilient and then giving you that developer productivity, that's becoming something that enterprises are embracing, it seems from these surveys and I think that's the building block for microservices. >> And I think many people are already moved, remember Soho, we've got history here, so we've been trying to move towards this world in which it is a services world and before it was much too heavyweight Ectimel RPC and everything that made it, Soap and everything else, difficult to do these things. Now things have gotten much much easier. So a lot of people are actually doing a services architecture already. And the microservices I think is just a more formal way of doing that at a finer grain and when you get to this finer grain, that's when you need something like a service mesh now to pull things back together again. >> Alright, lets do a plug for the service mesh, people that are watching have got to be intrigued by this conversation, what's the state of the service mesh piece, lot of stars so good good community vibe going on, how do they get involved, what's needed, where's the white space, where's the work being done? >> And I think also John, what skills are needed to actually as a developer, you know we've got a lot of new folks here at that show that are just learning about this and what do they need to know to actually do this and bring this back to their companies. >> If they're, so first of all it's at Istio.io so that's the place to start, there's a lot of very good documentation there, there's very simple examples that can be downloaded so that you can try it out, you can try it out we're using containers so on top of cumulating, you can do it on your laptop, you can do it in the cloud so we're in this wonderful age of the internet in fact that most of the learning is done online and that you can get everything you need online you don't have to walk away from the show with a CD pack or anything else like that. So I would encourage developers to just simply try it out by themselves. Remember then there's Istio developers, people that are actually contributing code into Istio, that's sort of a specialized group of people who are very interested in it. More people, it'll be 10 to one users of Istio than there will be actually of the Istio developer community and the Istio developer community I urge people to get involved 'cause that's where we need to expand the number of use cases and make sure that we're covering the things that are important across the board for variety. >> Yeah, I mean Istio's not that difficult to learn, it's an L7 Proxy. It has a great affinity to Kubernetes project so if you are using Kubernetes or are involved in Kubernetes project then it basically is something that you can deploy into your Kubernetes cluster and you can get started with it. There are a number of trainings and workshops actually at this conference, there were a couple of Istio trainings and there are many tracks and then there's training online, there's a tutorial on the Google site with the GKE and I think on many other companies as well to get started with Istio but it's basically a proxy and in, it's not actually only limited to Kubernetes, you can run it in a VM environment, you can, it basically any service, it is a proxy that intercepts and you know basically can provide load balancing, traffic managing, quotas, all of those things that you expect of a rich proxy and so if you have a networking background it's actually very easy to pick it up. >> That's great, now when you're talking about these kind of, you know, these proxy and things along those lines, I'm sure that there are use cases that are the first ones to pop up, can you talk a little bit about that. >> Yes, I think the first use case of Istio is actually Canary, Canary deployment, so being able to route traffic from one version of your application to another version of your application. Make sure that that, lets say it's an upgrade, you know, make sure that that's running well and then gradually route more of you're traffic. So that's a very developer centric use case that appeals and then of course security. And that's a less developer centric, more control and ops perspective and then observability and again, control, also an ops perspective, those are the three main use cases. >> Okay. >> That's great, that's awesome and you have Cube Flow going on here, you guys had a couple of Google folks on. >> Yes, so I mentioned three projects that are the top projects, Istio number one, number two is Cube Flow, again within the last year, more than 3000 stars and then the last one is Scaffold. >> Great stuff, I love the programmability, automation. >> And one of the things that we mentioned before, because when people hear proxy, they think of the old time, actually when you've used a proxy and a DNS which now it's very high performance and one of the things that you're seeing also, it connects up with other open source projects such as FDIO which is VPP, which is now being used, integrated into envoy which is a proxy, so the data plane itself, I think is going to be more efficient than people trying to do their own network. >> That's a good point Lew, I mean people think proxies are inefficient, it's a hack, a bridge between point A and point B. >> Yes, that was a lot of the initial skepticism around this, so you know, this was about two years ago we were sitting around saying okay, Kubernetes, what's next? And we came up with a open service broker, so you can consume services and then the early start of Istio, starting with Envoy and then building the service mesh around that and that was indeed one of the early concerns as well, will it be too heavy, will it add latency, will there be performance bottle neck, I think a lot of that concern has been addressed and it will continue to be addressed. >> Well we got to wrap up be I want to get some comments from you guys, reaction to the show here in Europe, obviously Google is in big force, Istio is prime time, you predicted that in Austin, it looks like it's tracking beautifully, reactions, what did you walk away with here from this event? What observations, revelations, surprises, share some color for the folks that couldn't make it. >> We were talking earlier about the number of use cases now that we've seen that our customers are coming in and describing how they're using Kubernetes and other of the technologies making up the cloud native world. And that allows people to learn and so that's what I'm always excited, because I can sit there in the audience and you can see everybody else going oh, I'm going to apply that to what I'm trying to do and just the breath now of-- >> John: So you're surprised at the uptake, or you're happy with the uptake, that's your reaction? >> Yeah and I think you would agree too. >> Yeah, I think the reason I come to KubeCon is to meet users, it's a user conference, and with each passing KubeCon, it becomes more and more user-centric so some of the talks here, the takeaways that I had, you know the folks from Spotify talked about how users need to get more involved and the benefits of getting more involved in the community, that was a very inspiring talk. Another talk yesterday talked about how Kubernetes needs to be a platform for everything, not just cloud native, but actually also Legacy and so these are points. And then the third piece, a lot of users talking about multicloud, right and making that a reality, these are things that I'm taking away as you know, users are doing this today. >> John: Multicloud certainly is a path, people have that outcome in mind. >> Yes. >> Doing the work now to get there. Thanks for coming on, Aparna and Lew. >> Thank you. >> Great to have you guys, you're awesome, senior folks in the industry, experienced executives, driving the change here, cloud native, microservices architecture, whole new modern paradigm shift in software architecture, here at KubeCon, Kubernetes, Istio, hot projects, Cube Flow and more here on the Cube, live coverage here in Copenhagen, stay with us for more coverage, after this short break. (upbeat music)