>> Host: Live, from Santa Clara, California, it's TheCUBE covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Linux Foundation. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are coming to the end of day two at Open Networking Summit. We just got here today, it's a great show. Everyone who's talking everything about software-defined networking is here. And along with Scott Raynovich we're joined by Dave Ward, one of the luminaries doing panels, doing keynotes. >> Here we are in TheCUBE. >> And here we are. Dave is the CTO of Engineering and Chief Architect at Cisco Systems. So Dave, great to see you as always. >> Great to see you guys. >> So what's the buzz of the show, you've been here for a couple of days, any surprises? >> No real big surprises to be honest, always there's some great announcements and great launches going on. But really what I'm finding surprising is that this is the sixth year of this conference, can you believe that? So year six from where we started, and I may be the first person to say this, have you ever had anybody in theCUBE today talking about openflow? >> Jeff: No. >> Remember those days? >> Now, nothing against open flow that's not my point, but think about how far we've gone and so. >> Scott: Actually, yeah, Martin was talking about it. >> Course he did. Course he did. He's not going to let it go. (laughter) But love you Martin. But really my point is, look how far we've come in six years. Six years ago we had a protocol, small community, one group working on this stuff, really working in standards, there was no open-source associated with that at that time, now look where we are. Basically the place to do work is now in open-source and come together as a community. So, the buzz for me really is holy shit, this thing is real! There's a lot of people investing a lot of money and time and really trying to work together to improve and build the ecosystem around networking, around network functions, what services are being delivered and building a business off networking again, so networking is back. It's cool again. >> Jeff: Right. Great. And then there's this whole new thing coming down the pike in the form of 5G, and IoT that's just opening up a new opportunity kind of redefine, what are these standards, and how is this going to help push things along? >> Well, it's kind of interesting and so I'm just ripping for a second. When you take a look at where we've come over the last several years and it was SDN controllers and configuring the network. Then it was virtualizing the network. There was a lot of talk yesterday and today about analytics and creating a reactive network. All of that has been built in the those six years and come together in different open-source communities to build those pieces. We've got SDN controllers, projects like OpenDaylight, projects like FD.io, projects like PNDA, P-N-D-A-.io. That's the SDN virtualized network and data analytics piece, but when you get to 5G and IoT, one thing I'll be talking about tomorrow in my keynote, is that there're big blocks missing in the industry. So, let's dial it back to historically, remember when the HVAC contractor logged on to the network and that malware on that laptop stole 70 million credit cards, remember that? >> Yes. >> Still haven't solved that problem yet. And so the reason why I'm bringing this up is what's missing, identity. So we had this notion that networks controlled by IT operators that are going to go in and config and provision that network. Well, we're now to the point where we need to link people and things to be able to drive what that intent is on the network, and whether its buzz words, which is real functionality by the way, of micro-segmentation. HVAC contractor goes into a micro-segment, can't get to the point of sale, can't steal the credit cards. Basic bread and butter stuff we want from the network. This is what SDN is supposed to deliver, virtualized services like firewalls and other sporadic security, we'll just hold that for a second. But that linking of who the person is, what device they're on, where they are on campus, where they are in the world, etc., etc., time of day, whatever the case may be, are now the variables that need to go into the top of this system, into a policy engine that then drives that reactive network. We've made a couple of great strides in six years, but to get to 5G, and in particular to get to IoT, we have to have another couple of major blocks come into the industry to make that work well. Hopefully it's open-source where that's going to go, and it's not just a standards body and not just open-source, cuz we still need things to be manufactured and interoperable and the rest of it. So hopefully these things come together as we've seen the maturing of those two big groups. >> I was going to say, it kind of begs the question, what is the interplay between standards bodies versa or together with open-source projects? Cuz before you didn't really have open-sources standards really set. Set the regs. Now you've got these open-source projects, which have a main channel, they might start forking, there's all kinds of places that they can go, and how do the two kind of work together? >> Well there's been a ton of effort, and coming out of the SDN open-source movement around model-driven networking, and although it sounds kind of geeky, the main way of representing those models is through representation called YANG. The interesting thing about YANG is that's been not only adopted in SDN, as the main object and way of representing the models being converted to network and equipment computes, computers etc. But the IETF has taken that up and really driven a service approach through the IETF which is I want to deliver a VPN service, I want to deliver load engineering on the network versus what we did with SNMP, or what the industry did, which was I'm going to fully distribute this out to all the protocols and all the functions and everybody's going to write a NIB etc., etc. and we know how that turned out. So the craze for model-driven networking, the standards bodies picking this up, IETF, MEF, which is metro ethernet forum, broadband forum, BBF. All these organizations have now taken on that mantra that came out of open-source SDN of model-driven networking and are working towards creating those models so that way we will have a standardized way to program the network. But what's next is the telemetry coming out. Those objects need to be standardized so that way whether it's a Cisco device or somebody else's device, it's actually sending out the same data that can be collected and can be interpreted properly. Does it mean that it's a NIB? Does it mean that it's only going to go over one particular transport? I don't think anybody in the industry really cares whether it's JSON, Google RPC, Protobuffs, Netconf, or any of these pieces, they're all perfectly fine, they have different semantics associated with them, but nonetheless those common objects and common data models have been what has been the key to keeping the industry working together, the common architectural philosophy, and then the standards bodies have thankfully picked that up over the last couple of years. >> Yeah we were talking here earlier, I mean you just threw out a bunch of alphabet soup there and I understand 80% of it, but it does raise the issue we were talking about earlier about these standards development organizations and the IETF, the TM Forum, the MEF. Now we have open-source, so we have the Linux Foundation. We have a lot of these different organizations and I think while you would know better than I as a CTO, people are becoming challenged by tracking and following all this stuff, do you think we need some sort of consolidation of these standards or at least some more unification, we just saw ECOMP and Open-O merge so there seems to be some consolidation. What will we see going forward? What's going to help you as the CTO? >> There's no doubt if there's consolidation, that would be easier to track and easier place to develop, but in reality, Scott, it's 50 shades of YANG. (laughter) >> And the reason why I say that is each and every standards body has done their own specific function, again whether it's Metro Ethernet or its broadband access or its mobility, each one of those standards bodies is redefining themselves to be SDN capable. There's no doubt. If there's a one stop shop, it would be the most optimal way to get something done the fastest, but that's not the way the world works. So actually I think we are going to see a continuous increase of more folks working on this, more foundations being build, etc., etc. Although, what we have witnessed over the last couple days in the last year, is that the communities, the open-source communities in particular, are coming together and trying to integrate the pieces together versus just islands of cool technology that there's a few geeks interested in, no. Thankfully the operators and some enterprises have come in and said I need this stuff to work and I need this stuff to work together and that discipline is actually fundamentally new and different than the way either standards bodies worked or open-source worked in the past. So I'd love to say that there'd be even more consolidation. There's frankly a bit of fatigue over, not saying it's wack-a-mole but you have to chase, you have to really figure out and track where all this stuff is going on in the industry to really keep abreast and understand how wide and how deep it goes. >> It's interesting this trend lately where people are just donating ... The project is just being absorbed into Linux Foundation. So now there's at least kind of a consistency across all these various projects, in terms of the way things are managed, the shows, the communication, and them helping standardize a process to help those projects be more successful in their distribution and adoption in the company. >> Linux Foundation has done the industry a huge service. They understand governance. They've gone through a zillion different experiences of how to build communities. What works well when there's competing factions that need to come together and work, on board marketing team, on board legal team, able to build foundations as necessary, or what's been experimented with over the last couple of years is, if you remember when we started to number these, you need to have a 503C, you need to have a foundation, there was frankly a high cost associated with these. Now, open-source is being contributed there's no foundation, and there's no cost. And so there's a whole continuum of things that the industry, the networking industry I should say, is learning about how to build communities and although this sounds cliche, you may launch a product, but you don't launch a community, you actually have to build it. And it's not all one company that's doing the donating or doing the working and that will produce, that'll create the longevity of that particular project. And that is what the Linux Foundation knows how to do well or at least catalyzed people to come together to do that well. >> Now you mentioned one of the big questions that always comes up with open-source is well how do we make money, right? Cause it's all free. It's like, you know ... >> Are we on Jerry Maguire? What's going on? (laughter) >> Jeff: Free like a puppy. (laughing) >> Still my favorite. >> Free like a puppy, yeah, you guys still got to change the newspaper. So you were on a panel today there was a big discussion about the commercialization and how does, I mean obviously Cisco has to stare at this big puppy in the room if you will, you know. What's going to happen to our licensing model with all this open-source, what came out of that discussion, what came out of the panel about how do you make money in this open-source world? >> So a couple of things, one thing that was discussed was not only how to make money, is which comes first, cost reduction, total cost of ownership, or new service revenue. And really the outcome there, and AT&T, Comcast, and Lightspeed Ventures was also in the panel with me. Needless to say it's a combination of both. If you're coming in with a project and the project is please spend this money so you can save this money, we know how to do that math. We can add up the rows and columns and can understand whether or not money will be saved over time. But the new service revenue really certainly in an enterprise space, is really what's being discussed. In particular, can I get these new services, I need these new security functions, I want to manage all my branches from the cloud or whatever the case might be. So new service revenue is depending on which use case, which technology, which layer. Both of those two balance out and they both are required in the algorithm. Now, can people make money off of it? And the answer is, needless to say, Lightspeed Ventures colleague said, "Hey man, if there's a community "and there's a technology, "you can list off a zillion cases of where that community "is turned into a true company that can provide value-add "and additional IP and move forward." Now, let's move this from just startups to big companies like Cisco or AT&T and Comcast and not only do we all use open-source in our projects, all those companies are contributing to open-source. And in Cisco's case, we're contributing to open-source for a couple of key reasons, one is there are gaps in the industry, which were limiting the industry. So let me give an example. We open-sourced a virtual switch router, which you might think, okay it's Cisco they're going to do something in networking, but the reason why we open-sourced it, and it's a piece that we actually use in our products, was there was not a virtual switch or router that had the scale, performance, or features that enabled the industry to utilize all the capabilities of the hardware underneath, whether it's computer or networking or security. And so the industry literally would have stalled with a limited feature set versus being able to utilize decades of networking knowledge and experience in things that are key and necessary, encapsulations, features, filters, quality of service etc., etc. There's a zillion of these pieces. And so there's a couple different ways, how can somebody make money off of this really is the fundamental question. We contribute into open-source communities and use that open-source to build products as well. And we can do this across video, we can do this in networking, and we do this in NFV, we do this in orchestration in these pieces and we also catalyze an ecosystem around these projects and then potentially around our portfolio as well. And so we continuously expand our ecosystem into startups that are using this technology, advancing the technology, enabling the industry to move faster, and trying to fundamentally create those business outcomes that our customers want. >> I just love that you just innately understand the value of an active community and that really comes through, so but unfortunately the janitors have rolled in, the vacuums are going, the garbage cans are rolling, so before they unplug all of our gear, I want to give you the last word Dave. What are some of your top priorities for 2017? >> So top priorities for 2017 really comes down to working towards filling the gaps I mentioned, identity and policy, but additionally number one, make sure that the automation orchestration policy around networking in a containerized stack is created. So we live through a long era of hypervisors and what it was like to work with open stack and what it was like in open-source and have to invent all this technology. We learned a ton. But it doesn't exist in a containerized world. So for 2017, fill the big gaps in the industry and work towards orchestrating and automating networking, compute, storage, and security in a containerized world. >> Pretty simple. I think that's the answer. I was going to say 42 is usually the answer, but I think that was it Dave. (laughter) >> I love 42. (laughing) >> Thanks Dave, so he's Dave Ward, Scott Raynovich, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching TheCUBE from Open Networking Summit 2017. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music) >> You're also an entrepreneur, right? You know the business, you've been in the business.

>> You don't know me, I watch theCUBE. I queue up your videos, I listen to 'em while I'm on the treadmill. It helps me learn. It expands my knowledge, thank you. So it's really an honor to be part of that community. This is Dave Vellante, thanks for watching theCUBE, and for more information, just click here. (gentle techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Santa Clara, California, it's theCUBE, covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Linux Foundation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we are winding down at Open Networking Summit 2017, it's quite a conference. A lot of buzz about open-source as it goes into the networking space and continues to find traction. A lot of big companies donating projects to open-source, and then of course 5G and IoT, and the innovation never stops. So, Scott, really enjoying having Scott Raynovich cohost with us for these last couple days. Scott, what'd you think? >> Thanks again, Jeff. It's been a great show, lots of activity, some good news flow, actually announcements, and people opening up to us about open-source. As you said, lots of good stuff. >> Right. So I should've checked the tape from 2014, 'cus I think you actually co-hosted theCUBE at ONS in 2014, a long time ago. But clearly the narratives are changing quite significantly from there. >> Totally different world. >> You've been following this thing forever. So, before we get into some of the specifics, just kind of your general impressions of direction, and speed in that direction, as we continue to evolve. >> Sure, sure. Well, we talked a little bit about it with Martin, and that Martin kind of talked about in his keynote, how when he started Nicira, which for those of you who don't follow the SDN world, was kind of one of the first big open-networking startups, you know, let's have our code base be based on open-source, and have commodity hardware, run the software so anybody can swap in any hardware and run the software. That's the concept of open-networking and SDN. As Martin pointed out, when he started, it was like a speculative academic project. And he had no idea what it would become, and he pointed out it's now, after it was acquired by VMware, it's now a billion dollar business. And then we have other people, like AT&T, talking about in the keynote, John Donovan talking about how they're moving from 30% SDN open-networking last year, to more than 50%. So they're going to cross over, so that the majority of their network will be based on homegrown open-networking technology. Leveraging a lot of this open-source, that is the main topic of this show, which is run by the Linux foundation, which has become kind of the giant mega aggregator of networking open-source technologies. So, the main message is, we've gone from the academic speculative phase, to the actual let's get this stuff into production, let's run networks on it, and let's deliver your YouTube videos faster. >> Right, right. And as you look at the sponsor sheet behind us, right, a lot of startups, a lot of innovation, that comes with open-source. But you've still got Cisco, and Juniper, and the incumbents, and we had Dave Ward on from Cisco. So as you look at kind of the incumbent positionings, that benefited from a non open-source world, and dedicated, integrated boxes. >> Absolutely. >> How do you see them reacting and shifting in this new kind of market paradigm? >> Well, the first thing is, they all like to talk about software more than the hardware, right? 'Cause you notice that the discussion tends to focus on software these days. So they know that these hardware platforms are being commoditized, and you have these third-party manufacturers, that are coming out with these so-called "white boxes", which is the generic third-party hardware, that can run all the software. So, Juniper and Cisco are obviously, they have lots of software products, but you see from their acquisition strategies, they're focusing on buying software companies now, and they want to become known as software companies. And, I think, you know, they have a shot. They certainly haven't, lets not, say that Cisco hasn't stopped selling network gear, they're still a huge power in the space. >> Jeff Frick: There's a lot of it (laughs) >> And it's not like everybody is running out to buy commodity hardware, they're still looking for people to help them integrate, people to help provide service and support. The so-called, "throat to choke." >> One throat to choke, right, right. >> Yeah so, you know, that's kind of where they're moving. But obviously some of these companies are big oil tankers and you don't turn them around in a day. >> Right. And then we had Intel on, interesting conversation about 5G. Basically, the message being, 5G is now, you're saying, coming back from Mobile World Congress, it's not quite now. But really, the point was, we're preparing for it coming, which is why the preparation is now. So again, your prospective on 5G, interesting keynote this morning, you're talking about orders of magnitude of change, in the mobile network data capacity, over all these various iterations, and how it's really moving to, from, you know, voice to data, but now, not only from data, from people, but obviously things, internet of things. So, as you look at that kind of evolution, it's coming, right? It's coming in a big, big, big, way. >> Totally, totally. Yeah, I mean 5G is a, I mean, we could talk about 5G all day long. There's so many questions and debates about it. You know, Sandra Rivera, who we had on, from Intel, had some really good points, which is, if you're providing the fundamental technology like Intel, that the chips for the NFE Box, is the chips for the radio. The end to end solution in the semi-conductor space, you obviously have to invest now, and prepare for 5G. The standard won't be ratified or complete 'til, at least, well, they're saying possibly late 2018, but everybody really thinks it's 2019, 2020. But, the biq question is the applications, to your point. There's kind of this explosion of these new wireless WAN technologies, if you will, and internet of things is driving a lot of that. You know, you hear about the self-driving cars,right? >> Right, right. >> The trucks that are going to communicate back to HQ, and tell the boss where they are all the time, and how much fuel they're consuming, and how fast they're going, what their average. This Internet of Things market, self-driving cars, that's going to drive the need for more sophisticated mobile networks. But in industrial space, there's a different need, for very low power, low bandwidth, there's a WAN technology called LoRa, LoRa WAN, which is different from 5G. So, what people are trying to figure out with 5G, is the applications. Where does it fit in? What is, actually, 5G? Verizon has announced a point to point 5G pilot project. It's really "pre 5G", you know 'cause 5G isn't here, but they're kind of experimenting with, as a fiber replacement. Jeff needs faster broadband, he doesn't want to wait for the truck to come in and install. >> Jeff Frick: And dig the cable. >> The cable maybe will have 5G, as a new last mile solution, point to point, or point to point for businesses, you know, the big oil derrick, that needs a big pipe. There's many different applications that are being discussed. You know, for 5G. >> And is the timing of the standard, is it just kind of going through its natural stages? Or are there a couple of, you know, kind of key items that are still being hashed out, that they can't come to agreement, or is just kind of working its way. >> Oh, there's many, many items. I mean, I'm not technically sophisticated enough to dive into all the different. They'll argue about, you know, the protocols for authentication. Exactly how much bandwidth do we need? Are there different flavors of it? A lower bandwidth flavor versus a gigabit flavor. What are the chip sets going to look like? It's a very complex standard. But more importantly, on the business side, the carriers are asking, "How much money are we going to have to spend, to deliver 5G? "And we just spent all this money on LTE "and all the licenses." (Jeff chuckles) >> And does LTE go away, when 5G comes, or they run those in parallel? >> It'll definitely co-exist. >> Jeff Frick: It'll still be there, right? >> Well, that's what I'm saying, that's the question. Like you, Jeff Frick, do you really need 5G now? And what are you going to pay for it? You need to pay so your kids can watch YouTube faster? >> No, but I definitely want my autonomous vehicle to hit the brakes on time, before I hit the pedestrian, so. There's definitely application. >> I didn't realize you had an autonomous vehicle. >> Not yet, but, you know, I'm hoping. If more people watch theCUBE, I'll get one faster. >> So next year, when you acquire your autonomous Tesla. >> Jeff Frick: Right, right, my autonomous, which they just sent the software download, which is amazing. That's a whole different story. Shifting gears, edge, lot of conversation about edge. We do a lot of stuff with G, and IoT, and as you like to say IIoT, the Industrial Internet of Things, and kind of, this whole concept of, you can't get everything back to the cloud, 'cause the speed of light is just too damn slow. >> Scott Raynovich: That's right, that's right. >> And we talked to Ihab Tarazi, from Equinix, and we talk about the edge at the devices, as you said, low power, nasty conditions, yes, we're alive, they're banging plates over there. But then he really talked about the edge of all the clouds, and really the edge in the data center side. Because most of this stuff is traveling peer to peer, direct connect, and having that edge between your organization and then back into all these various clouds. >> That's right, that's right. >> Pretty interesting take, as that kind of back end sophistication and interconnectivity, just gets tighter and tighter and tighter. >> Totally, totally. Google also talked about that, building a new B2, they call it the B2 peering network. If people don't realize, how sophisticated theses networks have to be, right? You think that you, you know, you download a video, and it's just out there, right? It's actually going through a private network possibly, you know, a Netflix, has their own network, then it's peering with your local ISP, it's peering somewhere with your last mile provider, or if you're on a mobile network, it might be getting to you a different way, and so the discussion of where the edge goes is very important because as you pointed out, with IoT computing processing, it takes a long time, as we see with Siri all the time. Have you ever had that problem where Siri's not there? >> Google's always there. >> Yeah (laughs) >> Ok Google, no it works seemlessly, perfectly all the time. >> Okay, you're an Android guy, so yeah. >> Not quite. (laughs) >> So when you ask that question, to Siri or Google, it's going back all the way to the cloud and making that computation, back somewhere in the cloud. So the question is, where should that computation happen? When Jeff Frick needs his breaks, to avoid knocking over the (laughs) >> Unless it's a criminal, that's a different piece of software, you actually want to hit the criminal. >> You don't want that computation getting hung up in the cloud, right? So that's what the debate about the edge is. >> It's fascinating, it's why I love being in this business, it just continues to evolve and change over time. So last thing really, we are at the Open Networking Summit, it's a Linux Foundation show, Linux took this over a litle while ago, and as you said earlier, this huge move to move a lot of these open-source projects to the Linux Foundation, for them to really provide a home, if you will, and a set of resources, and a set of, everything from the 501(c)(3), and everything else you need. AT&T talked about delivering their project open-sourced, today. We heard earlier from Dell EMC, making a contribution. So as you look at the evolution of open-source, and Linux Foundation, as a subset, and how it impacts this networking and software-defined networking catching up to, software-defined compute and software-defined storage. How significant is that, as a driver of this adoption? >> Well, it's a big move. Most of the folks here at ONS are really, more in a telecom world, if you think of networking. What's happened to networking over the last decade, it's moved from enterprise, more to cloud and telecom, right? If you're in enterprise, you don't have to worry about building your network as much anymore, because most of your applications are heading to the cloud, right, with your service provider. So they are emulating what the cloud leaders did. The cloud leaders, such as, Google, were very aggressive with open-source. And the telecom players saw how fast they moved, by sharing code, and having more of a grassroots approach to building the code base. So that's, the reason why it's a big move, is that's a huge shift for telecom, right? 'Cause telecom has, for decades, built their proprietary network so. You want an LTE? Okay, we're going to do it our way, and we're going to work with a vendor, and take years to build this very specific proprietary network. And they've looked at cloud, and they want the speed. They want it to be able to move faster. So AT&T talked about how, when they deployed this new white box network, in production, they did it in three months. Which is, incredible. From the chip coming out of the foundry, to developing the box and the software and the service, it took them three to four months. Which is just an incredible change from the way these networks used to be built, it use to take years. >> Right, well the other really interesting plan, you teased it out, with the announcement with AT&T and this little company SnapRoute, some little startup, and we also heard it from Drew at Dell EMC, that, because of the open-source connection via the Linux Foundation, it exposes them and creates an ecosystem that they can now leverage all the smarts, and ingenuity, and innovation, coming out of a sea of startups, that they may or may not, have ever had a direct relationship with, and to leverage that internally. Pretty cool factor there. >> Exactly, it can all happen a lot faster, 'cause if its all based on open standards, you can, just plug it in, doesn't work the first day, but three months is a big change from, you know, two years. >> Donkey ears. Alright, so last word, you're launching a new thing. >> Oh, great! >> The new Scott Raynovich, so give us, what's the new name, where can people get information, and when do you actually launch? I know that's a little preview, but that's okay. >> It's called Futuriom. That's R-I-O-M. You know, 'cause, the names are running out on the internet, I don't know if you noticed that. (Jeff chuckles) And it launches in two weeks, and it's my hybrid blog research platform. So I'll have contributed information, we'll have big reports on industrial IoT. It's a premium service, but we'll also have free reports. So you can download free stuff, you can download premium reports you want to understand about all of these emerging technologies, and IoT, SD-WAN, cloud infrastructure, where it's going, Futuriom is really-- >> If you can't figure out the spelling, just tweet to Scott, and ask him, he'll send you a link. Yeah, it's at the lower third, so. Well very exciting. >> Thanks a lot. >> And we look forward to watching it grow. And thanks for sitting in with me, here at ONS. >> Thanks, I always love doing theCUBE, so I hope to be back here soon. >> Absolutely, alright, so he's Scott Raynovich, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. We are at ONS 2017 in Santa Clara. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. There's a busy schedule. Check SiliconANGLE.tv to see all the shows we're covering over the next several weeks. We'll be pretty much everywhere. So, we're out for now. Thanks, we'll catch you next time. Bye bye. (gentle techno)

>> Narrator: Live from Santa Clara, California it's theCube. Covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by The Linux Foundation. (bright music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the Open Networking Summit 2017 put on by The Linux Foundation. We're excited to have a special guest host for the next two days, Scott Raynovich. He's a founder and principal analyst at Futuriom, which hasn't really launched. It's launching in a couple of-- How many days? >> Ten days. >> Ten days. So you heard it first here on theCUBE. We love to launch companies on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So, Scott, looking forward to working together. >> I'm happy to be on theCUBE once again. >> So, last time when you co-hosted on the cube, it was here at ONS in Santa Clara, but I think it was 2014. >> Scott: It was at least two years ago, maybe three years ago, I think you're right. >> Amazing. So what are you looking forward to? You've been covering this space for a long time. A lot of talk about 5G and IoT and software-defined finally being here. From your seat, what are you looking at? What are you excited about? >> Well, I'm here to check out the buzz, to see if this stuff is actually happening. I think we heard this morning that it has happened. We heard from Martin Casado, the founder of Nicira, one of the SDN pioneers. And he went through the whole evolution of the product, how it's now hit one billion dollars of revenue. >> Jeff: That's pretty real. >> It's not bad. >> A billion, a billion run rate. >> And we heard from AT&T, which is deploying a open software-based network through the entire AT&T network going from 30% software-defined last year to 55% is the target this year. That's real, that's happening. We heard from Google. Again, one of the pioneers of software-defined networking, how they built their entire network on software-defined technologies, open-source. They continue to layer in new elements of software-defined networking and building it out into the WAN, building out these kind of edge data centers. So, it's happening across the board. There's no doubt. >> And then we've got this pesky thing called IoT that's coming down the pipe at a rapid-- I think at Mobile World Congress, as is always the case, a lot of chat about the new handsets, and 5G handsets, but really from our perspective, we think it's much more exciting to talk about the IoT impact, as all these connected devices are running around, how they share data, edge computing, cloud computing. It's pretty interesting times. >> Absolutely, and what's really interesting, I think, I'm focused right now on looking at industrial IoT. How does a car, auto manufacturing factory use sensors and devices to plug data into the cloud and then meld that with artificial intelligence, that we want to throw in another buzzword, right? >> Jeff: Right, right. machine learning, deep learning, there's no shortage. What happens with artificial intelligence working with The Internet of Things and sensors to automate anything from controlling the temperature in a factory to telling your car where to drive. So, lot's of stuff going on. >> So, any particular announcements over the last couple days you think we should highlight? >> Well, this morning's big announcement. AT&T, you know they announced a white box live production, white box system, I don't know if everybody knows what that means, but basically, instead of taking proprietary networking hardware, they use the chips and they used an ODM, Outsource manufacturer to create their own boxes and load their software. You know this new open source stuff called ONAP. And that's an interesting development, Jeff, because it means the operator, the network operator, is now become their own integrator. You know they used to go to Ericsson and Cisco and Juniper to help them integrate these technologies. It looks like their becoming more of the integrator of themselves and their buying the pieces of what they need and gluing it all together, much the way Google built their network. So, that's an interesting trend and the fact that they announced today that this white box system is live in production is significant. >> So, we'll have Dave Ward on later today from Cisco, many time Cube alumni. He's a great guest. But as you look at it kind of from the incumbent's point of view, obviously they have a huge install base, big sales forces, a lot of resources to bear. How are they playing this kind of open source piece of it? How are they leveraging the proprietary stuff they have, distribution and sales, but still kind of being part of the party and not being excluded from all the excitement that's going on? >> Totally, totally. Well, first of all, they absolutely have to focus on software. Because the hardware is becoming commoditized and you can go buy these merchant silicon chips that are fantastic and go gigabits and you plug them in. So, emphasis on software. And then they have to make this transition to integrate more open source technologies. But, you know, the operators are still going to need partners, right? They're still going to need people to help them. And, you know, I liken it to when you go to buy a car. You drive it off the lot but you still got all this service and support, right? You got the maintenance program. You got to bring the car back in. You buy a warranty. There's a lot of services that go along with the installation of the hardware and the software. >> Alright Scott, well it should be a great couple days. Thanks for coming down from the plains of Montana to join us-- >> Well, they're mountains actually. >> here in Santa Clara. Oh, you're in the mountainy part. Oh, that's right. A lot of talk after the basketball game last night of how eastern Washington is so different than the west so I had kind of Spokane in my head, I guess. >> We were kind of going for the Zags and that didn't happen. >> A little bit too many whistles, I think, on both sides last night. Kind of slowed the whole game down but that's a whole different conversation. He's Scott Raynovich. We're here at ONS 2017 for two days of coverage. You're watching theCUBE. I'm Jeff Frick. We'll be back with our next guest after this short break. Thanks for watching. >> Scott: Great (bright music) >> Narrator: Robert Herjavec >> Interviewer: People obviously know you from--