>>Hello everyone, This is Dave Lanta and you're watching The Cube's coverage of the Dell Technology Summit 2022 with exclusive behind the scenes interviews featuring Dell executive perspectives. And right now we're gonna explore Apex, which is Dell's as a service offering Dell's multi-cloud and edge strategies and the momentum around those. And we have news around Project Frontier, which is Dell's vision for its edge platform. And there's so much happening here. And don't forget, it's Cyber Security Awareness Month. Sam Groot is here. He's the senior vice president of marketing at Dell Technologies. Sam, always great to see you. How you doing? >>Always great to be here, Dave. >>All right, let's look at cloud. Everybody's talking about cloud Apex, multi-cloud. What's the update? How's it going? Where's the innovation and focal points of the strategy? >>Yeah, yeah. Look, Dave, if you think back over the course of this year, you've really heard us pivot as a company and discussing more and more about how multi-cloud is becoming a reality for our customers today. And when we listen and talk with our customers, they really describe multi-cloud challenges and a few key threads. One, the complexity is growing very, very quickly. Two, they're having a harder time controlling how their users are accessing the various different clouds. And then of course, finally the cloud costs are growing unchecked as well. So we, we like to describe this phenomenon as multi-cloud by design, where essentially organizations are waking up and seeing cloud sprawl around their organization every day. And this is creating more and more of those challenges. So of course at Dell we've got a strong point of view that you don't need to build multi-cloud by by default, rather it's multi-cloud by design, where you're very intentional in how you do multi-cloud. >>And how we deliver multi-cloud by design is through Apex. Apex is our modern cloud and our modern consumption experience. So when you think about the innovation as well, they've like, we've been on a pretty quick track record here in that, you know, the beginning of this year we introduced brand new Apex backup services that provides that SAS based backup service. We've introduced or announced Project Alpine, which is bringing our storage software, intellectual property from on-prem and putting it and running it natively in the public cloud. We've also introduced new Apex cyber recovery services that is simplifying how customers protect against cyber attacks. They can run an Amazon Azure, aw, I'm sorry, Amazon, aws, Azure or Google. And then, you know, we are really focused on this multi-cloud ecosystem. We announce key partnerships with SaaS providers such as Snowflake, where you can now access our information or our data from on-prem through the Snow Snowflake cloud. >>Or if needed, we can actually move the data to the Snowflake cloud if required. So we're continuing to build out that ecosystem SA providers. And then finally I would say, you know, we made a big strategic announcement just recently with Red Hat, where we're not only delivering new Apex container services, but we announce a strategic partnership to build jointly engineered solutions to address hybrid and multi-cloud solutions going forward. You know, VMware is gonna always continue to be a key partner of ours at the la at the recent VMware explorer, we announced new Tansu integration. So, So Dave, I, I think in a nutshell, we've been innovating at a very, very fast pace. We think there is a better way to do multi-cloud and that's multi-cloud by design. >>Yeah, we heard that at Dell Technologies world. First time I had heard that multi-cloud by design versus sort of default, which is great Alpine, which is sort of our, what we called super cloud in the making. And then of course the ecosystem is critical for any cloud company. VMware, of course, you know, top partner, but the Snowflake announcement was very interesting Red Hat. So seeing that expand, now let's go out to the edge. How's it going with the edge expansion? There's gotta be new. Speaking of ecosystem, the edge is like a whole different, you know, OT type That's right. Ecosystem's, telcos, what and what's this new frontier platform all about? >>Yeah, yeah. So we've talked a lot about clouds and multi clouds. We've talked about private and hybrid clouds, we've talked about public clouds, clouds and cos, telcos, et cetera. There's really been one key piece of our multi-cloud and technology strategy that we haven't spent a lot of time on. And that's the edge. And we do see that as that next frontier for our customers to really gain that competitive advantage that is created from their data and get closer to the point of creation where the data lives. And that's at the edge. We see the edge infrastructure space growing very, very quickly. We see upwards of 300% year of year growth in terms of amount of data being created at the edge. That's almost 3000 exabytes of data by 2026. So just incredible growth. And the edge is not really new for Dell. We've been at it for over 20 years of delivering edge solutions. >>81% of the Fortune 100 companies in the US use Dell solutions today at the Edge. And we are the number one OEM provider of Edge solutions with over 44,000 customers across over 40 industries and things like manufacturing, retail, edge healthcare, and more. So Dave, while we've been at it for a long time, we have such a, a deep understanding of how our customers are using Edge solutions. Say the bottom line is the game has gotta change. With that growth that we talked about, the new use cases that are emerging, we've got to un unlock this new frontier for customers to take advantage of the edge. And that's why we are announcing and revealing Project Frontier. And Project Frontier in its most simplest form, is a software platform that's gonna help customers and organizations really radically simplify their edge deployments by automating their edge operations. You know, with Project Frontier organizations are really gonna be able to manage, OP, and operate their edge infrastructure and application securely, efficiently and at scale. >>Okay, so it is, first of all, I like the name. It is software, it's a software architecture. So presumably a lot of API capabilities. That's right. Integration's. Is there hardware involved? >>Yeah, so of course you'll run it on Dell infrastructure. We'll be able to do both infrastructure, orchestration, orchestration through the platform, but as well as application orchestration. And you know, really there's, there's a handful of key drivers that have been really pushing our customers to take on and look at building a better way to do the edge with Project Frontier. And I think I would just highlight a handful of 'em. You know, freedom of choice. We definitely see this as an open ecosystem out there, even more so at the Edge than any other part of the IT stack. You know, being able to provide that freedom of choice for software applications or IOT frameworks, operational technology or OT for any of their edge use cases, that's really, really important. Another key area that we're helping to solve with Project Frontier is, you know, being able to expect zero trust security across all their edge applications from design to deployment, you know, and of course backed by an end and secure supply chain is really, really important to customers. >>And then getting that greater efficiency and reliability of operations with the centralized management through Project Frontier and Zero Touch deployments. You know, one of the biggest challenges, especially when you get out to the far, far reach of the frontier is really IT resources and being able to have that IT expertise. And we built in an enormous amount of automation helps streamline the edge deployments where you might be deploying a single edge solution, which is highly unlikely or hundreds or thousands, which is becoming more and more likely. So Dave, we do think Project Frontier is the right edge platform for customers to build their edge applications on now and certain, excuse me, certainly, and into the future. >>Yeah. Sam, no truck rolls. I like it. And you, you mentioned, you mentioned Zero trust, so we have Mother's Day, you, we have Father's Day. The kids always ask When's Kids' day? And we, of course we say every day is kids' day and every day should be cyber security awareness day. So, but we have cyber security awareness month. What does it mean for Dell? What are you hearing from customers and, and how are you responding? >>Yeah, yeah. No, there isn't a more prevalent top of mind conversation, whether it's the boardroom or the IT departments or every company is really have been forced to reckon with the cyber security and ransom secure issues out there. You know, every decision in IT department makes impacts your security profile. Those decisions can certainly, positively, hopefully impact it, but also can negatively impact it as well. So data security is, is really not a new area of focus for Dell. It's been an area that we've been focused on for a long time, but there are really three core elements to cybersecurity and data security as we go forward. The first is really setting the foundation of trust is really, really important across any IT system. And having the right supply chain in the right partner to partner with to deliver that is kind of the foundation in step one. >>Second, you need to of course go with technology that is trustworthy. It doesn't mean you are putting it together correctly. It means that you're essentially assembling the right piece parts together. That, that coexist together in the right way. You know, to truly change that landscape of the attackers out there that are gonna potentially create risk for your environment. We are definitely pushing and helping to embrace the zero trust principles and architectures that are out there. So finally, while when you think about security, it certainly is not absolute all correct. Security architectures assume that, you know, there are going to be challenges, there are going to be pain points, but you gotta be able to plan for recovery. And I think that's the holistic approach that we're taking with Dell. >>Well, and I think too, it's obviously security is a complicated situation now with cloud, you've got, you know, shared responsibility models, you've got that multi-cloud, you've got that across clouds, you're asking developers to do more. So I think the, the key takeaway is as a security pro, I'm looking for my technology partner through their r and d and their, you mentioned supply chain processes to take that off my plate so I can go plug holes elsewhere. Okay. Sam, put a bow on Dell Technology Summit for us and give us your closing thoughts. >>Yeah, look, I I think we're at a transformative point in it. You know, customers are moving more and more quickly to multi-cloud environments. They're looking to consume it in different ways, such as as a service, a lot of customers edge is new and an untapped opportunity for them to get closer to their customers and to their data. And of course there's more and more cyber threats out there every day. You know, our customers when we talk with them, they really want simple, consistent infrastructure options that are built on an open ecosystem that allows them to accomplish their goals quickly and successfully. And look, I think at Dell we've got the right strategy, we've got the right portfolio. We are the trusted partner of choice to help them lead, lead their, their future transformations into the future. So, Dave, look, I think it's, it's absolutely one of the most exciting times in it and I can't wait to see where it goes from here. >>Sam, always fun catching up with you. Appreciate your time. >>Thanks Dave. >>All right. A Dell Tech world in Vegas this past year, one of the most interesting conversations I personally had was around hybrid work and the future of work and the protocols associated with that and the mindset of, you know, the younger generation. And that conversation was, was with Jen Savira and we're gonna speak to Jen about this and other people and cult culture topics. Keep it right there. You're watching the Cube's exclusive coverage of Dell Technology Summit 2022.

(bright music) >> Hello everyone, this is Dave Vellante, and you're watching The Cube's coverage of the Dell Technology Summit 2022, with exclusive behind the scenes interviews featuring Dell executive perspectives. And right now we're going to explore Apex, which is Dell's As-a-Service offering, Dell's multi-cloud and Edge strategies, and the momentum around those. And we have news around Project Frontier, which is Dell's vision for its Edge platform. And there's so much happening here. And don't forget, it's Cyber Security Awareness Month. Sam Grocott is here. He's the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Dell Technologies. Sam, always great to see you. How you doing? >> Always great to be here, Dave. >> All right, let's look at cloud. Everybody's talking about cloud Apex, multi-cloud. What's the update? How's it going? Where's the innovation and focal points of the strategy? >> Yeah, yeah. Look, Dave, if you think back over the course of this year, you've really heard us pivot as a company and discussing more and more about how multi-cloud is becoming a reality for our customers today. And when we listen and talk with our customers, they really describe multi-cloud challenges in a few key threads. One, the complexity is growing very, very quickly. Two, they're having a harder time controlling how their users are accessing the various different clouds. And then of course, finally, the cloud costs are growing unchecked, as well. So we like to describe this phenomenon as multi-cloud by design, where essentially organizations are waking up and seeing cloud sprawl around their organization every day. And this is creating more and more of those challenges. So of course at Dell we've got a strong point of view that you don't need to build multi-cloud by default, rather it's multi-cloud by design, where you're very intentional in how you do multi-cloud. And how we deliver multi-cloud by design is through Apex. Apex is our modern cloud and our modern consumption experience. So when you think about the innovation as well, Dave like, we've been on a pretty quick track record here in that, you know, the beginning of this year we introduced brand new Apex backup services that provides that SAS-based backup service. We've introduced, or announced, Project Alpine which is bringing our storage software intellectual property from on-prem, and putting it and running it natively in the public cloud. We've also introduced new Apex cyber recovery services that is simplifying how customers protect against cyber attacks. They can run in Amazon, Azure, AW I'm sorry, Amazon, AWS, Azure, or Google. And then, you know, we are really focused on this multi-cloud ecosystem. We announced key partnerships with SAS providers such as Snowflake, where you can now access our information, or our data, from on-prem through the Snowflake cloud. Or if needed, we can actually move the data to the Snowflake cloud, if required. So we're continuing to build out that ecosystem SAS providers. And then finally I would say, you know, we made a big strategic announcement just recently with Red Hat, where we're not only delivering new Apex container services, but we announced a strategic partnership to build jointly engineered solutions to address hybrid and multi-cloud solutions going forward. You know VMware is going to always continue to be a key partner of ours. At the more recent VMware explorer, we announced new Tansu integration. So Dave, I think in a nutshell, we've been innovating at a very, very fast pace. We think there is a better way to do multi-cloud and that's multi-cloud by design. >> Yeah, we heard that at Dell Technologies World. First time I had heard that multi-cloud by design versus to the default, which is great. Alpine, which is sort of our, what we call, "super cloud in the making." And then of course the ecosystem is critical for any cloud company. VMware of course, you know, top partner. But the Snowflake announcement was very interesting. Red Hat, so seeing that expand. Now let's go out to the Edge. How's it going with the Edge expansion? There's got to be new, speaking of ecosystem, the Edge is like a whole different you know, OT type of ecosystem, >> That's right. Telcos. And what's this new Frontier platform all about? >> Yeah, yeah. So we've talked a lot about cloud and multi-clouds. We've talked about private and hybrid clouds. We've talked about public clouds, clouds and Kronos, Telcos, et cetera. There's really been one key piece of our multi-cloud and technology strategy that we haven't spent a lot of time on. And that's the Edge. And we do see that as that next frontier for our customers to really gain that competitive advantage that is created from their data and get closer to the point of creation where the data lives, and that's at the Edge. We see the Edge infrastructure space growing very, very quickly. We've seen upwards of 300% year-of-year growth in terms of amount of data being created at the Edge. That's almost 3000 exabytes of data by 2026. So just incredible growth. And the Edge is not really new for Dell. We've been at it for over 20 years of delivering Edge solutions. 81% of the Fortune 100 companies in the US use Dell Solutions today at the Edge. And we are the number one OEM provider of Edge Solutions with over 44,000 customers across over 40 industries in things like manufacturing, retail, Edge, healthcare, and more. So Dave, while we've been at it for a long time, we have such a deep understanding of how our customers are using Edge Solutions. Say, the bottom line is the game has got to change. With that growth that we talked about, the new use cases that are emerging, we've got to unlock this new Frontier for customers to take advantage of the Edge. And that's why we are announcing and revealing Project Frontier. And with Project Frontier in its most simplest form is a software platform that's going to help customers and organizations really radically simplify their edge deployments by automating their edge operations. You know, with Project Frontier organizations are really going to be able to manage, and operate their edge infrastructure and application securely, efficiently, and at scale. >> Okay, so it is, first of all, I like the name. It is software, it's a software architecture. So presumably a lot of API capabilities. >> That's right. >> Integration. Is there hardware involved? >> Yeah, so of course you'll run it on a Dell infrastructure. We'll be able to do both infrastructure orchestration through the platform, but as well as application orchestration. And you know, really there's a handful of key drivers that have been really pushing our customers to take on and look at building a better way to do the edge with Project Frontier. And I think I would just highlight a handful of them. You know, freedom of choice. We definitely see this as an open ecosystem out there even more so at the Edge than any other part of the IT stack. You know, being able to provide that freedom of choice for software applications or IoT frameworks, operational technology, or OT for any of their edge use cases, that's really, really important. Another key area that we're helping to solve with Project Frontier is, you know, being able to expect zero trust security across all their Edge applications, from design to deployment, you know, and of course backed by a secure supply chain is really, really important to customers. And then getting that greater efficiency and reliability of operations with a centralized management through Project Frontier and Zero Touch deployments. You know, one of the biggest challenges especially when you get out to the far, far reach of the Frontier, is really IT resources and being able to have that IT expertise. And we built in an enormous amount of automation to help streamline the Edge deployments where you might be deploying a single-edge solution which is highly unlikely, or hundreds or thousands, which is becoming more and more likely. So Dave, we do think Project Frontier is the right Edge platform for customers to build their Edge applications on now, and certain, excuse me, certainly and into the future. >> Yeah. Sam, no truck rolls. I like it. (laughing) And you, you mentioned, you mentioned Zero trust. So we have Mother's Day, you know, we have Father's Day. The kids always ask, "When's Kids' day?" And we of course we say, "Every day is Kids' Day," and every day should be Cybersecurity Awareness Day. So, (laughs) but we have Cybersecurity Awareness Month. What does it mean for Dell? What are you hearing from customers and how are you responding? >> Yeah, yeah. No, there isn't a more prevalent top-of-mind conversation, whether it's the boardroom or the IT departments, or every company is really have been forced to reckon with the cyber security and ransom secure issues out there. You know, every decision in IT department makes, impacts your security profile. Those decisions can certainly, positively, hopefully impact it, but also can negatively impact it, as well. So, data security is really not a new area of focus for Dell. It's been an area that we've been focused on for a long time. But there are really three core elements to cybersecurity and data security as we go forward. The first is really setting the foundation of trust is really, really important across any IT system and having the right supply chain and the right partner to partner with to deliver that. It's kind of the foundation in step one. Second, you need to, of course, go with technology that is trustworthy. It doesn't mean you are putting it together correctly. It means that you're essentially assembling the right piece parts together, that coexist together in the right way. You know, to truly change that landscape of the attackers out there that are going to potentially create risk for your environment, we are definitely pushing and helping to embrace the zero trust principles and architectures that are out there. So finally, while when you think about security it certainly is not absolute all correct. Security architectures assume that, you know, there are going to be challenges, there are going to be pain points, but you've got to be able to plan for recovery. And I think that's the holistic approach that we're taking with Dell. >> Well, and I think too, it's obviously security is a complicated situation. Now with cloud you've got, you know, shared responsibility models, you got that multi-cloud, you got that across clouds, you're asking developers to do more. So I think the key takeaway is as a security pro, I'm looking for my technology partner through their R&D and their, you mentioned, supply chain processes to take that off my plate so I can go plug holes elsewhere. Okay. Sam, put a bow- >> That's right. >> on Dell Technology Summit for us and give us your closing thoughts. >> Yeah, look, I think we're at a transformative point in IT. You know, customers are moving more and more quickly to multi-cloud environments. They're looking to consume IT in different ways, such as as a service. A lot of customers, Edge is new and an untapped opportunity for them to get closer to their customers and to their data. And of course there's more and more cyber threats out there every day. You know, our customers when we talk with them, they really want simple, consistent infrastructure options that are built on an open ecosystem that allows them to accomplish their goals quickly and successfully. And look, I think at Dell we've got the right strategy we've got the right portfolio. We are the trusted partner of choice to help them lead their future transformations into the future. So, Dave, look, I think it's, it's absolutely one of the most exciting times in IT, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here. >> Sam, always fun catching up with you. Appreciate your time. >> Thanks, Dave. >> All right. At Dell Tech World in Vegas this past year, one of the most interesting conversations I personally had was around hybrid work and the future of work, and the protocols associated with that, and the mindset of, you know, the younger generation. And that conversation was with Jenn Saavedra, and we're going to speak to Jenn about this and other people and culture topics. Keep it right there. You're watching The Cube's exclusive coverage of Dell Technology Summit 2022. (bright music)

>> Announcer: From Miami Beach, Florida it's theCUBE, covering Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE coverage here at the Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019 in Miami Beach at the Fontainebleau Hotel. Not a bad venue for an event. It's their first inaugural event around cyber protection. Our next guest is a great guest. He's going to go into great detail. Very fun job. Stressful job. Graeme Hackland, CIO of ROKiT Williams Racing Formula One team. Thanks for joining me. >> Thanks Joe. >> Great job you have. I mean, it's high pressure, high stakes, data's involved. You can nerd out on all the tech and it's a part of the business these days. Take a minute to explain the Williams Racing Team history and what are you guys up to these days. >> So Williams, this is Sir Frank Williams' 41st year with this team. 50 years in total he's been in Formula One. Won 16 world championships. Not recently, we want to do that again for him and that's the mission, right? Get up every day wanting to get back to the front of the grid and help Williams to win. I joined them in 2014. I've been 23 years in total in Formula One. I love the industry, the fast pace, everything you describe. There's a bit of stress obviously but I just love the industry and I joined Williams in 2014 to help with the digital transformation and it's been brilliant and now we're not using the transformation word anymore. We're on a digital journey. We've already put a lot of that infrastructure in place, moved to the cloud, and it's just been, it's been brilliant and we've had some success on the track. More recently it's been tough but we'll get back there. >> You know, I just had a conversation with Dan Havens who's the Chief Growth Officer, he's done all of the sports deals. We were talking about, you know, baseball and the other football, European football, and also Formula One. The competitive advantage edge is there in the data. AI is here, machine learning feeds AI, so now do you set up the infrastructure, you get operationalized properly. This is a big job. It's not just loading software. You got to really think about the wholistic system at work. >> That's the great thing, right? We've go to do the infrastructure right. So you've got to get the basics right. But then if we can do a better job with AI, with machine learning, with the analytic tools that are out there than the other teams are doing. We can beat them. We don't have the same funding levels that they do but we got really smart people, and people is our biggest asset. And then the second biggest is data and making sure that the right engineer has the right data at the right time so that they can do their job, so that we can set the fastest pit stop time or that we can challenge the cars in front of us. It is really important, so we put a lot of time and effort into data analytics, but especially video. Video has become huge for us and obviously then, the data size grows massively. But data and being able to analyze your competitors, analyze your own car, your two drivers against each other. There's a huge amount of data that we are dealing with. >> Without giving any secrets away Graeme, talk about some of the data dynamics that you have going on. What is some of the workflows? What are some of the things you're optimize... You said video. Where are you guys looking at? What are some of the key, cool things that you're seeing as an edge opportunity for you? >> So, Formula One team has this life cycle of a Formula One car where you start in aerodynamics, either in a wind tunnel with a physical model or you do virtual wind tunnel with computational fluid dynamics. There's CFD, so that computation power is really important. Then you go into design, CAD design, that really turns it into something that you can make so then we're into manufacturing. Then we got a race engineer, and all the tools that they use to get the optimum out of the car that they're given on a race weekend. And then you feed that back in so that every race were adding performance to the car, and all through the season. We'll add one and a half to two seconds per lap of performance onto that car every season. And so that's a really important loop that you need to be constantly doing. And if you don't, you know, we've had some issues in this year, if you don't get that completely right, you will lose time to your competitors. >> Give me an example where it didn't work out, where you've gone back to the drawing board. >> So, I think there's been, and it's been well publicized, Clay Williams has talked about it. There's been a bit of a gap between the results we were getting in the wind tunnel and the reality that was happening on the track. And so we've had to bring that back and make sure that there was a correlation between the tunnel and the track. And our engineering group will be working really hard on that, so that kind of thing can happen. >> Talk about the engineering backgrounds that are going on behind the scenes. A lot of people look at Formula One's, only the hardcore nerd that are nerding out and geeking out on the sport know that the depth but, what's going on in the engineering front because there's a lot of investment you guys are making on engineering. >> Yeah, and so, Formula One fans love the data. I think they really love to see the data and work with it and, fortunately, the people who run Formula One are opening more of that data to the fans. If you left it to the teams, we wouldn't share it with the fans because then our competitors see it and we see it as a competitor's advantage. But if something's shared for everyone then that's fair. So, I think the fans love to see the data and see what we're doing. What we're trying to look at now is automation. Humans making decisions has been okay up until probably the last couple of years where some errors have been made in strategy, in real-time where you've got a few seconds to make a decision. Are you going to pit? Virtual safety car has just been called. You've got three seconds to make a decision. Sometimes the humans are making the wrong decision. So we see automation, AI, as really having a role in that real-time decision making. But we think AI can help us in our factory. The things that we're making, something happens at the track, and now we have to change that design. We think introducing automation and AI into that process will really help us as well. >> Yeah, sports market, sports teams, and sports franchises, to me, optimize digital transformation or digital journey because the fans want it. >> Graeme: Yeah. >> There's competitive advantage in running the team. There's the player's decision making whether it's baseball or a driver. >> Graeme: Yup. >> And then there's the fans. So, I got to ask ya on, what are you guys thinking about the fan experience because now you got some data opening up, you got visualization, potentially apps that show you that cars in 3D space and some virtual reality potential. >> Yup. >> The old experience was, ooh, there's a car, goes by again, hey we're (giggles) comes by again. So, bringing, extending the digital fan-based experience, what do you guys, what's your view there? >> Oh, there's a huge amount of work happening in Formula One and it's great to see the people who are running Formula One talking about a digital transformation, not just the teams, right. And it was all about the fan experience. We want the fan to feel like they're a part of it. So Williams did a couple of experiments with virtual reality, so that you could either be one of the pit crews, so you could be the person holding the gun, feel the car coming in, and changing the tire. >> That's awesome. >> Or you could have the driver's view. So the cameras that are on the car are above the driver's head so you don't get an accurate view. So we brought that down into the helmet and now you're getting the view of what it's like to be the driver. >> Wow. >> So, there's been a lot of focus on that fan experience and making sure that you're not at a disadvantage sitting in this, you know, at the track, compared to someone who's at home with two televisions or multiple devices that they're tracking the data on. And the GPS data of where the cars are and hearing some of the commentary of why they're making the decisions they are and when the driver's challenge their engineers, I love that bit. So the engineers got all that data, tells the driver we're going to do this strategy and the driver challenges it because they're in the car feeling how the car feels. >> I think you guys have a great opportunity as an industry because, you look at Esports and the gaming culture, the confluence of that experience based product coming to Formula One. >> Graeme: Yup. >> It's just the perfect fit. >> Well, it's gone, the Esports Formula One has gone huge. We run a team as well. Most of the Formula One teams now have an Esports team. And actually, the people who are driving in the Esports teams, their skills are transferrable. I remember one of the competitions a couple of years ago was to win a drive in the simulator. You became a development driver for one of the Formula One teams. And that shows that those skills are transferrable, so it's great. >> Yeah, that's beautiful stuff. All right, I want to get back to the Acronis cyber.. >> Yup. >> Global Cyber Summit 2019. You're here talking to folks, also sharing knowledge, you guys were hit with ransomware. >> Graeme: Yup. >> Not once, but twice. >> Graeme: Yup. >> I think you had just joined, I think at that time before.. >> It was during 2014 when I first joined and we would, I know, we had put as much investment as we could into our cyber security and to our protection. But we had gaps and I think, so the first ransomware that we got hit by was inside our network and it encrypted 50,000 files before we discovered it. Now we were lucky. We were able to recover all the data from back-up, but we knew that, because it had happened in the middle of the day, someone had looked at some websites during their lunch break and within a couple of hours we had discovered it, contained it, corrected it, restored the data. But the second time we got hit, it was an individual on their computer off network, and we lost data. And that's the thing I hate the most. That data is so precious to us. Losing it was really upsetting. And so we went out into the market, how can we make sure that our data is being backed up? But more than that, how can we make sure that backed up data is protected? And there's a number of reasons we want to protect it. We want to protect it from things like ransomware, but also, the thing that people often don't thing about with their data is, how do we make sure that it's not tampered with at any point? So, when we're at the track, and the car's running around the track, we're pushing data locally, inside the network. We're pushing it to the cloud to do computation and we're sending it back to the UK so that engineers at base can work with it. >> Yeah. >> What it someone was in those stream of data tampering with it? >> Yeah. >> And we then had fake data? And as we go to more machine learning and automation, if those decisions are being made on bad data, that's going to be a real problem. So, we wanted to make sure that our data couldn't be tampered with, so we can adopt new technology. So that was really important. But, Williams also have an advanced engineering company, so beyond Formula One, we apply that knowledge and know how, to all sorts of other industries. From healthcare to retail to automotive. We've been helping Unilever with some really interesting projects to make ice cream better and more efficiently and to help with soap powder. We got to make sure that that customer data is never tampered with. If we're going to put technology into road cars, that's a very different challenge to Formula One. >> John: Yeah. >> We got to make sure that, that whole, the IP chain, how we develop that technology can be proven and isn't tampered with. >> It's interesting, supply chain concepts data protection merging together. Data protection used to be thought after.. Oh, we've got a design. Well let's brush up, we'll get back it, bolt it on. Not anymore. >> Now having to build it into the solutions up front. As we're preparing technology for customers, we're having to make sure that we're thinking about the data challenge. So if it's in a car, so we did battery technology, we won the supply for the first ever gas to electric model, right. As that car is driving around, there's going to be data that's important around the health of the battery. >> John: Yeah. >> And information that is going to be needed by the driver, but also for later for when they're doing the servicing on the car. We got to make sure that that data is protected properly. >> You guys are pushing the envelope on instrumentation, sensors, data, real-time telemetry? >> To be honest, Formula One has always been like that. We put our first data logger in 1979 on a Formula One car. Honestly, it's been an IOT device since then. (laughs) It's not a new thing for F Ones. I think we are really experienced. Our electronics group are real experienced in how to protect that data as it comes off the car and we've applied that knowledge to road cars as well. >> Well you, what's great about you guys and the whole industry is that, that innovation for the sport is now translating as a benefit for society. >> Exactly. >> And I think that is really kind of a, I think, an example of where innovation can come from. Places you least expect it. The people doing hard work pays off. >> It always worried me that Formula One, we spend all the money we spend, right, hundred million pounds, three hundred million pounds per year. And at the end of the year, the product that we created gets retired and we create a whole new product. It always worried me that that technology wasn't reused. Williams are reusing it. You know, we take the carbon fiber that we use to protect a driver in a Formula One car. We've now applied that to babies in hospitals when they get moved around. We built a carbon fiber unit that moves them around. Aerodynamics design, we've applied to fridges to make them more efficient. If you've got an open fridge, the cold air doesn't come out into the aisle of the supermarket. We push it back into the fridges. I love that. Reuse, taking loose end leaf batteries and putting them into a unit that you bought on the side of a house and it helps to power the house over night. >> You know, it's interesting Graeme, you mentioned digital transformation versus digital journey, you guys are operationalize it as it's used. >> Graeme: Exactly. >> Difference, there's nuance but transformation. You have yet transformed. >> Graeme: Yup. >> You guys up transformed so you're on a journey. I got to ask you, what is some learnings in your operationalize digital? I mean, obviously you got your sport, but now it's translating out to other areas. What's the big learnings that you take away from, as a professional and as an individual in the industry, from all this? >> I think, initially, we were quite conservative and we only went with big players that we were convinced were going to be around in three to five years. I think, there's a lot more established cloud providers now but early on we only went with the big guys because we wanted to make sure we could get our data out. If they disappeared, we weren't going to lose our data. I think what the partnership with Acronis and other partnerships we've done has helped us to be more aggressive in terms of our approach towards CAD vendors. We can now take risks with a smaller player. We've got a really niche product but it's something that could give us a competitive advantage for half a season, three, four races sometimes. We'd go for it. Whereas, I think we were a bit conservative at first. I think all CIOs have to think about what's their appetite for risk. We did a really good process of mapping that out, discussing it all the way to board level. What exactly are we prepared to risk? There's some things, you know, car data, we're just not prepared to risk that. >> Yeah. >> But there are some things that we can afford to take risks with. And I've talked to CIOs at finance institutes, they're starting to take risks now. There's core data that they won't be able to, either by regulation or just doesn't make sense. But there's a lot you can commoditize and put out into the cloud. >> And if you have a cyber protection foundation, you can take those risks. >> Graeme: Exactly. >> You don't want to be looking over your shoulder worrying. >> Because you own the data. And sometimes when you go with a cloud provider, it feels almost like they own the data. But when you've got a partnership like the one we have with Acronis, we know that we own the data. We're backing that data away from the cloud vendor so we can always get it back. >> Graeme, thanks so much for the insight. Love this conversation. I think it's really innovative, cutting edge, and great fun to talk about. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, cheers. >> CUBE coverage here at Miami Beach at the Fontainebleau Hotel for Acronis Global Cyber Security 2019 Summit, I'm John Ferrier, stay with us for more CUBE day two coverage after this short break. (fun music)

>>from Miami Beach, Florida It's the key. You covering a Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Cube coverage here in Miami Beach Front and Blue Hotel with Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019 2 days of coverage. Where here, Getting all the action. What's going on in cyber tools and platforms are developing a new model of cybersecurity. Cronus Leader, Fast growing, rapidly growing back in here in the United States and globally. We're here. William Toll, head of product marketing Cronus. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thanks, John. I'm excited. You're >>here so way were briefed on kind of the news. But you guys had more news here. First great key notes on then special guest Shark tank on as well. That's a great, great event. But you had some news slip by me. You guys were holding it back. >>So we've opened our A p I, and that's enabling a whole ecosystem to build on top of our cyber protection solutions. >>You guys have a platform infrastructure platform and sweet asserts from backup all the way through protection. All that good stuff as well. Partners. That's not a channel action platforms are the MoD has been rapidly growing. That's 19 plus years. >>And now, with the opening of our AP, eyes were opening the possibility for even Maur innovation from third parties from Eyes V's from managed service providers from developers that want to build on our platform and deliver their solutions to our ecosystem. >>You guys were very technical company and very impressed with people. Actually, cyber, you gotta have the chops, you can't fake it. Cyber. You guys do a great job, have a track record, get the P I. C B Also sdk variety, different layers. So the FBI is gonna bring out more goodness for developers. You guys, I heard a rumor. Is it true that you guys were launching a developer network? >>That's right. So the Cronus developer network actually launches today here in the show, and we're inviting developed officials. That's official. Okay. And they can go to developers that Cronus dot com and when they go in there, they will find a whole platform where they can gain access to forums, documentation and logs, and all of our software development kids as well as a sandbox, so developers can get access to the platform. Start developing within minutes. >>So what's the attraction for Iess fees and developers? I mean, you guys are here again. Technical. What is your pitch developers? Why would they be attracted to your AP eyes? And developer Resource is >>sure it's simple. Our ecosystem way have over 50,000 I t channel partners and they're active in small businesses. Over 500,000 business customers and five million and customers all benefit from solutions that they bring to our cyber cloud solutions >>portal. What type of solutions are available in the platform today? >>So their solutions that integrate P s a tools professional service is automation are mm tools tools for managing cloud tools for managing SAS applications. For example, one of our partners manages office 3 65 accounts. And if you put yourselves in the shoes of a system administrator who's managing multiple SAS applications now, they can all be managed in the Cronus platform. Leverage our user experience. You I s t k and have a seamless experience for that administrator to manage everything to have the same group policies across all of this >>depression. That success with these channel a channel on Channel General, but I s freeze and managed service ROMs. Peace. What's the dynamic between Iess, freeze and peace? You unpack that? >>Sure. So a lot of m s peace depend on certain solutions. One of our partners is Connectwise Connectwise here they're exhibiting one sponsors at at this show and their leader in providing managed to lose management solutions for M s. He's to manage all of their customers, right? And then all the end points. >>So if I participate in the developer network, is that where I get my the FBI's someone get the access to these AP eyes? >>So you visits developer data cronies dot com. You come in, you gain access to all the AP eyes. Documentation way Have libraries that'll be supporting six languages, including C sharp Python, java. Come in, gain access to those documentation and start building. There's a sandbox where they could test their code. There's SD K's. There's examples that are pre built and documentation and guides on how to use those s >>So customer the end. You're in customers or your channel customers customer. Do they get the benefits of the highest stuff in there? So in other words, that was the developer network have a marketplace where speed push their their solutions in there. >>Also launching. Today we have the Cronus Cyber Cloud Solutions portal and inside there there's already 30 integrations that we worked over the years to build using that same set of AP eyes and SD case. >>Okay, so just get this hard news straight. Opening up the AP eyes. That's right. Cronus Developer Network launched today and Cloud Solutions Portal. >>That's right, Cyber Cloud Solutions Portal Inside there there's documentation on all the different solutions that are available today. >>What's been the feedback so far? Those >>It's been great. You know, if we think about all the solutions that we've already integrated, we have hundreds of manage service providers using just one solution that we've already integrated. >>William, we're talking before we came on camera about the old days in this business for a long time just a cube. We've been documenting the i t transformation with clouds in 10 years. I've been in this in 30 years. Ways have come and gone and we talked to see cells all the time now and number one constant pattern that emerges is they don't want another tour. They want a solid date looking for Jules. Don't get me wrong, the exact work fit. But they're looking for a cohesive platform, one that's horizontally scaled that enables them to either take advantage of a suite of service. Is boy a few? That's right. This is a trend. Do you agree with that? What you're saying? I totally agree >>with that, right? It makes it much easier to deal with provisioning, user management and billing, right? Think about a man of service provider and all of their customers. They need that one tool makes their lives so much easier. >>And, of course, on event would not be the same. We didn't have some sort of machine learning involved. How much his machine learning been focused for you guys and what's been some of the the innovations that come from from the machine. I mean, you guys have done >>artificial intelligence is critical today, right? It's, uh, how we're able to offer some really top rated ransomware protection anti malware protection. We could not do that without artificial intelligence. >>Final question for you. What's the top story shows week If you have to kind of boil it down high order bit for the folks that couldn't make it. Watching the show. What's the top story they should pay attention to? >>Top story is that Cronus is leading the effort in cyber protection. And it's a revolution, right? We're taking data protection with cyber security to create cyber protection. Bring that all together. Really? Democratize is a lot of enterprise. I t. And makes it accessible to a wider market. >>You know, we've always said on the Q. Go back and look at the tapes. It's a date. A problem that's right. Needed protection. Cyber protection. Working him, >>Cronus. Everything we do is about data. We protect data from loss. We protect data from theft and we protect data from manipulation. It's so critical >>how many customers you guys have you? I saw some stats out there. Founded in 2003 in Singapore. Second headquarters Whistle in 2000 a global company, 1400 employees of 32 offices. Nice nice origination story. They're not a Johnny come lately has been around for a while. What's the number? >>So five million? Any customers? 500,000 business customers. 50,000 channel partners. >>Congratulations. Thanks. Thanks for having us here in Miami Beach. Thanks. Not a bad venue. As I said on Twitter just a minute ago place. Thanks for Thanks. All right, John. Just a cube coverage here. Miami Beach at the front in Blue Hotel for the Cyber Global Cyber Security Summit here with Cronus on John Kerry back with more coverage after this short break.

>>from Miami >>Beach, Florida It's the Q covering a Cronus Global Cyber >>Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Welcome to the Qi. We are in Miami, Florida, for the Cronus Global Cyber Summit. 2019 John for your host of the Cube. We're here for two days of coverage around cybersecurity and the impact to the enterprise in society in a great guest here to kick off the event. Linda Babcock, professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon University, author of the book, Ask for It, and she has a new book she's working on, and we'll get into that. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for coming on. >>Really happy to be here. >>Thanks. So Carnegie Mellon. Great. Great. Uh, University. They stole a bunch of people when I was in school, in the computer science department. Very well known for that as well. Economics, math, machine learning. I was good stuff there. What's going on in Carnegie Mellon? What's new in your world? >>Well, it's just actually just a great place to be because of the focus on interdisciplinary work. You know, problems in the world don't come as disciplines. They come with multiple perspectives needed and So it's just a place where people can flourish, attack ideas from all kinds of angles. And so it's a really great >>one of the things I hear a lot about, and we cover a lot about the the skills gap. Certainly this is Maur job openings than there are jobs and interesting. A lot of the jobs that are new haven't been skilled, important in the classic university setting. So a lot of these jobs, like cybersecurity, cloud computing, Blockchain, crypto economic token economics, all kind of have a maths economic steam to him. So you know your computer science, you got economics and policy. I seem to be the key areas around from these new skills and challenges. Way faces a society which your take on all this >>Well, actually, there's a lot going on in this area at Carnegie Mellon. Actually, the economics group at Carnegie Mellon ISS is been proposing a new major that really focuses on this interface between economics, machine learning and technology. And I think it's going to train our students just for the next generation of problems that the world of tech is gonna have. So it's very exciting. >>So let's talk about your book. Ask for it. Okay. Um, it's not a new book that's been around for a while, but you give a talk here. What's what's the talking talking track here at the event? >>Yeah, so I have a couple of themes of research, and it focuses on women's Berries to advancement in organizations. And so most of the work that I did with this book and my first book, Women Don't Ask, was looking about how men and women approached negotiation differently. And kind of the bottom line is that women are what less likely to negotiate than men over all kinds of things, like pay like opportunities for advancement like the next promotion. And it really harms them in the workplace because men are always out there asking for it and organizations reward that. And so the book is was really about shedding light on this disparity and what organizations could do about it and what women can do about it themselves, how they can learn to negotiate more effectively. >>What did you learn when you were writing the book around? Some of the use cases of best practices that women were doing in the field was it. Maura aggressive style has a more collaborative. You're seeing a lot more solidarity amongst women themselves, and men are getting involved. A lot of companies are kind of talking the game summer walking, the talk. What the big findings that you've learned >>well, I'd say that the approach is that women use are a lot different than the approaches that menus. And it's because our world lets men do a lot of different things. It lets them engage in a cooperative way, lets them be very competitive. But our world has a very narrow view about what's acceptable behavior for women. I often call it a tight rope because women are kind of balancing that they need to go out and assert themselves. But they have to do it in a way that our side, a society finds acceptable, and that that tight rope constrains women and doesn't allow them to be their authentic Selves on DSO. It makes it difficult for women to navigate that. What's your >>take on the the balancing of being aggressive and the pressure companies have to, you know, keep the women population certainly pipeline in tech. We see it all the time and the whole me to thing and the pressure goes on because norms were forming, right? So is there any new data that you can share around how, with norms and for forming and what men can do? Particularly, I get this question a lot, and I always ask myself, What am I doing? Can I do something different? Because I want to be inclusive and I want to do the right thing. But sometimes I don't know what to do. >>Yeah, of course. And it's really important that men get involved in this conversation as allies and, like you said, sometimes men but don't know what to do because they feel like maybe they don't have standing to be in the conversation when it's about women and weigh all need men, his allies. If women are gonna try to reach equality, ATT's some point. But the new data really suggests negotiation may be playing a role. The work that show Sandberg lean in, But the newest work that we have shows that actually the day to day things that happen at work that's holding women back. So let me tell you about that. So what we find is if you think about your calendar and what you do all day there a task that you can classify as being promotable, that is, they're really your core job. Responsibility there noticed, rewarded. But there's glass of other things that happen in your organization that are often below the surface that are important to dio valued but actually not rewarded. And what our research finds is that men spend much more time than women at the tasks that are these promotable task that rewarded women spend much more time than men on these tasks that we call non promotable that are not rewarded. And it's really holding women back. And how men can help is that the reason that women are doing these tasks is because everyone is asking them to do these tasks. And so what men can do is start asking men to do some of these things that are important but yet not rewarded because the portfolio's now are really out of balance and women are really shouldering the burden of these tasks disproportionately. >>So get on the wave of the promotional off the promotional oriented things that Maura and the man can come and pick up the slack on some of the things that were delegated to the women because they could order the kitchen food or whatever >>or help others with their work. Someone has to hire the summer intern. Someone has to organize events. Someone has to resolve underlying conflicts. Those are all really important things. Women get tasked with them, and that really doesn't allow them to focus on their core job responsibilities. And so men can step up to the blade, stop, do it, start doing their fair share of that work, and really then allow women to reach their full >>potential. I've been thinking a lot about this lately around how collaboration software, how collaborative teams. You started to see the big successful coming like Amazon to pizza team concept. Smaller teams, Team Orient. If you're doing it, you're in a teen. These things go. You've given you get so I think it's probably a better environment. Is that happening or no? It's >>unclear how teams kind of shake out for women in this setting, because there's actually some research that shows when a team produces an output and the supervisor trying to figure out, like who really made the output? Who was the valued player on the team. They often overvalue the contributions of men and undervalued the contributions of women. So actually, team projects can be problematic if women don't get their fair share of >>bias. Is everywhere >>biases everywhere. And you know it's not that people are trying discriminate against women. It's just that it's a subconscious, implicit bias and so affects our judgments in ways that we don't even realize. >>It's actually probably amplifies it. You know, the game are gaining a lot of things on digital indigenous communities. We see a lot where people are hiding behind their avatars. Yeah, that's also pretty bad environment. So we've been doing a lot of thinking and reporting around communities and data. I want to get your thoughts is I never really probed at this. But is there any economic incentives? And after you're an economics professor, you seeing things like crypto economics and tokens and all kinds of new things is a potential path towards creating an incentive system that's cutting edge what's progressive thinking around any kind of incentive systems for organizations or individuals. >>Well, when you think about incentives and maybe an economist, I think about those a lot, and I emerged that with my work on various to women's advancement, I think incentives is one area that you can actually play a big role. And that is that Organizational leaders should be incentive fied incentivized to see that they have equal advancement for their male and female employees in their workforce. Because if they don't it means they're losing out on this potential that women have, that they aren't able to fully be productive. And so that's, I think, the place. I think that incentives can really be important, >>a great leader and he said, and I'm quoting him. But I feel the same way says. Our incentive is business. Get a better outcome with them. We include women, give data, goes Yeah, we make software and have people that use our software with women I don't wanna have. So I'm like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Biases should be in there. Four Women for women by women for women >>and women spend more money as consumers than men. And so having women on teams allows them to see perspectives that men may not see, and so it can really add two new innovative thinking that hadn't been there before by including women. >>Well, I'm excited that this there's a little bit of movement in tech we're starting to see, certainly in venture capital, starting to see a lot more when you come into the board room work to do. But I think there's a nice sign that there's more jobs that are computer related that aren't just coding. That's male dominant pretty much now and still still is for a while. But there's a lot more skills, all kinds of range now in computer science. It's interesting. How is that affecting some of the new pipeline ing? >>Yeah, well, I think the good news is that there are is increasing levels of women's attainment in stem fields. And so there are more and more female workers entering the labor market today. Way just have to make sure that those workers are valued and feel included when they do doing tech companies. Otherwise they will leave because what happens unfortunately, sometimes in tech is it doesn't feel inclusive for women. And the quick rate for women in tech is over over twice the rate for men, and some of the reasons are is they're not feeling valued in their positions. They're not seeing their advancement. And so with this new wave of female workers, we have to make sure that those workplaces are ready to accept them and include them. >>That's great. Well, ask for it is a great book. I went through it and it's great handbook. I learned a lot. It really is a handbook around. Just standing up and taken what you can. You got some new, but you got a new book you're working on. What's that gonna look like? What if some of the themes in the new book >>Yeah. So the new book is on these promotable tasks, and the way I like to think about it is there's so much attention toe work, life balance, you know? How do you manage both of those with your career, your family? How does that work? But our work actually focuses on work, work, balance, and what remains is paying attention to the things that you do at work. Making sure that those things that you're doing are the things that are most valuable for your employer and are gonna be most valuable for your career. So it's a really different focus on the day to day ways that you spend your time at work and how that can propel women to the next level. >>That's awesome, Linda. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. What do you think of the event here? Cronies? Global cyber security summit. >>Well, I got to say it's not my typical event, but I'm having a good time learning more about what's happening in the tech industry today. >>Cyber protection, Certainly a cutting edge issue. And certainly on the East Coast in Washington D certainly with national defense and all kinds of things happening, Ransomware is a big topic that kicked around here absolutely getting taken out like, Oh, my God. Yeah. Bitcoin in return for taking your systems out, >>all kinds of new stuff to add to my tool kit. >>Great to have you on. Thanks for your insight. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. I'm John for here at the Cube. We're here in Miami Beach for the Cronus Cyber Protection Conference. Thank you for watching

(clicking noise) >> Hello, I'm John Furrier, SiliconANGLE media, co-host of theCUBE. We are here on the ground in, here in Santa Clara, California, Centrify's headquarters, with Tom Kemp, the CEO of Centrify, and Parham Eftekhari, who's the co-founder and senior fellow of ICIT, which is the Institute of Critical Infrastructure Technologies, here to talk about security conversation. Guys, welcome to theCUBE's On the Ground. >> Thank you. >> Great to be here. >> Great to see you again, Tom. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And congratulations on all your success. And Parham, GovCloud is hot. We were just in D.C. with Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. It's gotten more and more to the point where cyber is in the front conversation, and the political conversation, but on the commercial side as well. There's incidents happening every day. Just this past month, HBO, Game of Thrones has been hijacked and ransomed. I guess that's ransom, or technically, and a hack. That's high-profile, but case after case of high-profile incidents. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Okay, on the commercial side. Public sector side, nobody knows what's happening. Why is security evolving slow right now? Why isn't it going faster? Can you guys talk about the state of the security market? >> Yeah, well, ya know, I think first of all, you have to look at the landscape. I mean, our public and private sector organizations are being pummeled every day by nation states, mercenaries, cyber criminals, script kiddies, cyber jihadists, and they're exploiting vulnerabilities that are inherent in our antiquated legacy systems that are put together by, ya know, with a Frankenstein network as well as devices and systems and apps that are built without security by design. And we're seeing the results, as you said, right? We're seeing an inundation of breaches on a daily basis, and many more that we don't hear about. We're seeing weaponized data that's being weaponized and used against us to make us question the integrity of our democratic process and we're seeing, now, a rise in the focus on what could be the outcome of a cyberkinetic incident, which, ultimately, in the worst case scenario, could have a loss of life. And so I think as we talk about cyber and what it is we're trying to accomplish as a community, we ultimately have a responsibility to elevate the conversation and make sure that it's not an option, but it is a priority. >> Yeah, no, look, I mean, here we are in a situation in which the industry is spending close to 80 billion dollars a year, and it's growing 10 percent, but the number of attacks are increasing much more than 10 percent, and as Parham said, you know, we literally had an election impacted by cyber security. It's on the front page with HBO, et cetera. And I really think that we're now in a situation where we really need to rethink how we do security in, as enterprises and as even individuals. >> And it's seems, talking about HBO, talking about the government, you mentioned, just the chaos that's going on here in America, you almost don't know what you don't know. And with the whole news cycle going on around this, but this gets back to this notion of critical infrastructure. I love that name, and you have in your title 'ICIT,' Institute of Critical Infrastructure, because, ya know, and certainly the government has had critical infrastructure. There's been bridges, and roads, and whatnot, they've had the DNS servers, there's been some critical infrastructure at the airports and whatnot, but for corporations, the critical infrastructure used to be the front door. And then their data center. Now with cloud, no perimeter, we've talked about this on theCUBE before, you start to change the notion of what critical infrastructure is. So, I guess, Parham, what does critical infrastructure mean, from a public and commercial perspective? Tell me, you can talk about it. And what's the priorities for the businesses and governments to figure out what's the order of operations to get to the bottom of making sure everything's secure? >> Yeah, it's interesting, that's a great question, you know, when most people think about critical infrastructure as legacy technology, or legacy's, you know, its roads, its bridges, its dams. But if you look at the Department of Homeland Security, they have 16 sectors that they're tasked with protecting. Includes healthcare, finance, energy, communications, right? So as we see technology start to become more and more ingrained in all these different sectors, and we're not just talking about data, we're talking about ICS data systems. A digital attack against any one of these critical infrastructure sectors is going to have different types of outcomes, whether you're talking about a commercial sector organization, or the government. You know, one of the things that we always talk about is really the importance of elevating the conversation, as I mentioned earlier, and putting security before profits. I think, ultimately, we've gotten to this situation because a lot of companies do a cost-benefit analysis, say, "You know what? I may be in the healthcare sector, "and ultimately it'll be cheaper for me to be breached, "pay my fines, and deal with potentially even the "loss to brand, to my brand, in terms of brand value, "and that'll cheaper than investing what "I need to to protect my patients and their information." And that's the wrong way to look at it. I think now, as we were talking about this week, the cost of all this is going higher, which is going to help, but I think we need to start seeing this fundamental mind-shift in how we are prioritizing security, as I mentioned earlier. It's not an option, it must be a requisite. >> Yeah, I think what we're seeing now, is in the years past, the hackers would get at some bits of information, but now we're seeing with HBO, with Sony, they can strip mine an entire company. >> They put them out of business. >> Exactly. >> The money that they're doing with ransomeware, which is a little bit higher profile, ransomware, I mean, there's a specific business outcome, here, and it's not looking good, they go out of business. >> Oh, absolutely, and so Centrify, we just recently sponsored a survey, and nowadays, if you announce that you got breached, and you have to, now. It's 'cause you have to tell your shareholders, you have to tell your customers. Your stock drops, on average, five percent in a day. And so we're talking about billions of dollars of market capitalization that can disappear with a breach as well. So we're beyond, it's like, "Oh, they stole some data, "we'll send out a letter to our customers, "and we'll give 'em free Experian for a year." Or something like that." Now, it's like, all your IP, all the content, and John, I think you raised a very good point, as well. In the case of the federal government, it's still about the infrastructure being physical items, and of course, with internet a thing since now it's connected to the internet, so it's really scary that a bridge can flip open by some guy in the Ukraine or Russia fiddling with it. But now with enterprises, it's less and less physical, the store, and we're now going through this massive shift to the cloud, and more and more of your IP is controlled and run. It's the complete deperimeterization that makes things every more complicated. >> Well it's interesting you mentioned the industrial aspect of it, with the bridge, because this is actually a real issue with self-driving cars, this was on everyone's mind, we were just covering some content, covering Ford's event yesterday in San Francisco. They got this huge problem. Ya know, hacking of the cars. So, industrial IOT opens up, again, the surface area, but this kind of brings the question down to customers, that you guys have or companies or governments. How do they become resilient? How do they put steps in place? Because, you know, I was just talking to someone who runs a major port in the U.S., and the issues there are maritime, right? So you talk about infrastructure, container ships, obviously worry about terrorists and other things happening. But just the general IT infrastructure is neanderthal, it's like, 30 years old. >> Yeah. >> So you have legacy infrastructure, as you mentioned, but businesses also have legacy, so how do you balance where you are? How do you know the progress bar of your protection? How do you know the things you need to put in place? How do you get to resilience? >> Yeah, but see, I think there also needs to be a rethink of security. Because the traditional ways that people did it, was protecting the perimeter, having antivirus, firewalls, et cetera. But things have really changed and so now what we're seeing is that an entity has become the top attack vector going in. And so if you look at all these hacks and breaches, it's the stealing of usernames and passwords, so people are doing a good job of, the hackers are social engineering the actual users, and so, kind of a focus needs to shift of securing the old perimeter, to focusing on securing the user. Is it really John Furrier trying to access e-mail? Can we leverage biometrics in this? And trying to move to the concept of a zero-trust model, and where you have to, can't trust the network, can't trust the IP address, but you need to factor in a lot of different aspects. >> It's interesting, I was just following this blog chain because we've been covering a lot of the blog chains, immutable and encrypted, the wallets were targets. (laughing) Hey, this Greta the Wall, where they store the money. Now we own that encrypted data. So, again, this is the, hackers are fast, so, again, back to companies because they have to put if they have shareholder issues, or they have some corporate governance issues. But at the end of the day, it's a moving train. How does the government offer support? How do companies put it in place? What do they need to do? >> Yeah, well, there's a couple of things you can look at. First of all, you know, as a think tank, we're active on Capital Hill, working with members of both minority and majority sides, we're actively proposing bipartisan legislation, which provides a meaningful movement forward to secure and address some of the issues you're talking about. Senator Markey recently put out the Cyber Shield Act, which creates a type of score, right? For a device, kind of like the ENERGY STAR in the energy sector. So just this week, ICIT put out a paper in support of an amendment by Senator Lindsey Graham, which actually addresses the inherent vulnerabilities in our election systems, right? So there's a lot of good work being done. And that really goes to the core of what we do, and the reasons that we're partnering together. ICIT is in the business of educating and advising. We put out research, we make it freely available, we don't believe in com`moditizing information, we believe in liberating it. So we get it in the hands of as many people as possible, and then we get this objective research, and use it as a stepping stone to educate and to advise. And it could be through meetings, it could be through events, it could be through conversation with the media. But I think this educational process is really critical to start to change the minds of-- >> You know, if I can add to that, I think what really needs to be done with security, is better information sharing. And it's with other governments and enterprises that are under attack. Sharing that information as opposed to only having it for themselves and their advantage, and then also what's required is better knowledge of what are the best practices that need to be done to better protect both government and enterprises. >> Well, guys, I want to shift gears and talk about the CyberConnect event, which is coming up in November, an industry event. You guys are sponsoring, Centrify, but you guys are also on the ball, there's a brand new content program. It's an independent event, it's targeted to the industry, not a Centrify user group. Parham, I want to put you on the spot before we get to the CyberConnect event. You mentioned the elections. What's the general, and I'm Silicon Valley and so I had to ask the question 'cause you're in the trenches down in D.C. What is the general sentiment in D.C. right now on the hacking? Because, I was explaining it to my son the other day, like, "Yeah, the Russians probably hacked everybody, "so technically the election "fell into that market basket of hats." So maybe they did hack you. So I'm just handwaving that, but it probably makes sense. The question is, how real is the hacking threat in the minds of the folks in D.C. around Russia and potentially China and these areas? >> Yeah, I think the threat is absolutely real, but I think there has to be a difference between media, on both sides, politicizing the conversation. There's a difference between somebody going in and actually, you know, changing your vote from one side to the other. There's also the conversation about the weaponization of data and what we do know that Russia is doing with regards to having armies of trolls out there or with fake profiles, and are creating faux conversations and steering public sentiment of perception in directions that maybe wasn't already there. And so I think part of the hysteria that we see, I think we're fearful and we have a right to be fearful, but I think taking the emotion and the politics out of it, and actually doing forensic assessments from an objective perspective to understanding what truly is going on. We are having our information stolen, there is a risk that a nation state could execute a very high-impact, digital attack that has a loss of life. We do know that foreign states are trying to impact the outcomes of our democratic processes. I think it's important to understand, though, how are they doing it and is what we're reading about truly what's happening kind of on the streets. >> And that's where the industrial thing you were kind of tying together, that's the loss of life potential, using digital as an attack vector into something that could have a physical, and ultimately deadly outcome. Yeah, we covered, also that story that was put out, about the fake news infrastructure. It's not just the content that they're making up, it's actually the infrastructure fake news. Bionets, and whatnot. And I think Mike Rowe wrote a story on this, where they actually detailed, you can smear a journalist for 40K. >> Yeah. >> These are actually out there, that are billed for specifically these counter... Programs. >> As a service. You know, go on a forum on the Deep Web and you can contract these types of things out. And it's absolutely out there. >> And then what do you say to your average American friends, that you're saying, hey, having a cocktail with, you're at a dinner. What's going on with security? What do you say to them? You should be worried, calm down, no we're on it. What's the message that you share with your friends that aren't in the industry? >> Personally, I think the message is that, you know, you need to vigilant, you need to, it may be annoying, but you do have to practice good cyber hygiene, think about your passwords, think about what you're sharing on social media. We'd also talk, and I personally believe that, some of these things will not change unless we as consumers change what is acceptable to us. If we stop buying devices or systems or apps based on the convenience that it brings to our lives, and we say, "I'm not going to spend money on that car, "because I don't know if it's secure enough for me." You will see industry change very quickly. So I think-- >> John: Consumer behavior is critical. >> Absolutely. That's definitely a piece of it. >> Alright, guys, so exciting event coming up, theCUBE will be covering the CyberConnect event in November. The dates, I think, November-- >> Sixth and seventh. >> Sixth and seventh in New York City at the Grand Hyatt. Talk about the curriculum, because this is a unique event, where you guys are bringing your sponsorship to the table, but providing an open industry event. What's the curriculum, what's the agenda, what's the purpose of the event? >> Yeah, Tom. >> Okay, I'll take it, yeah. I mean, historically, like other security vendors, we've had our users' conference, right? And what we've found is that, as you alluded to, that there just needs to be better education of what's going on. And so, instead of just limiting it to us talking to our customers about us, we really need to broaden the conversation. And so that's why we brought in ICIT, to really help us broaden the conversation, raise more awareness and visibility for what needs to be done. So this is a pretty unique conference in that we're having a lot of CSOs from some incredible enterprise, as well as government. General Alexander, the former of the Cyber Security Command is a keynote, but we have the CSO of Aetna, Blue Cross involved, as well. So we want to raise the awareness in terms of, what are the best practices? What are the leading minds thinking about security? And then parallel, also, for our customers, we're going to have a parallel track where, if they want to get more product-focused technology. So this is not a Centrify event. This is an industry event, ya know. Black Hat is great, RSA is great, but it's really more at the, kind of the bits and bytes-- >> They're very narrow, but you are only an identity player. There's a bigger issue. What about these other issues? Will you discuss-- >> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah, well-- >> Is it an identity or is it more? >> It actually is more, and this is one of the reasons, at a macro level, the work that we've done at Centrify, for a number of years now. You know, we have shared the same philosophy that we have a responsibility, as experts in the cyberspace, to move the industry forward and to really usher in, almost a cyber security renaissance, if you will. And so, this is really the vision behind CyberConnect. So if you look at the curriculum, we're talking about, you know, corporate espionage, and how it's impacting commercial organizations. We're talking about the role of machine-learning based artificial intelligence. We'll be talking about the importance of encrypting your data. About security by design. About what's going on with the bot net epidemic that's out there. So there absolutely will be a very balanced program, and it is, again, driven and grounded in that research that ICIT is putting out in the relationships that we have with some of these key players. >> So you institute a critical infrastructure technology, the think tank that you're the co-founder of. You're bringing that broader agenda to CyberConnect. >> That's correct, absolutely. >> So this is awesome, congratulations, I got to ask, on the thought leadership side, you guys have been working together. Can you just talk about your relationship between Centrify and ICIT? So you're independent, you guys are a vendor. Talk about this relationship and why it's so important to this event. >> Well, absolutely. I mean, look, as a security vendor, you know, a lot of, a big percentage of security vendors sell into the U.S. federal government, and through those conversations that a lot of the CSOs at these governments were pointing at us to these ICIT guys, right? And we got awareness and visibility thought that. And it was like, they were just doing great stuff in terms of talking about, yes, Centrify is a leading identity provider, but people are looking for a complete solution, looking for a balanced way to look at it. And so we felt that it would be a great opportunity to partner with these guys. And so we sponsored an event that they did, Winter Summit. And then they did such a great job and the content was amazing, the people they had, that we said, "You know what? "Let's make this more of a general thing and "let's be in the background helping facilitate this, "but let the people hear about this good information." >> So you figured out the community model? (laughs) No, 'cause this is really what works. You got to enable, you're enabling this conversation, and more than ever in the security system, would love to get your perspective on this, is that there's an ethos developing, has been developed. And it's expanding aggressively. Kind of opens doors on one side, but security's all about data sharing. You mentioned that-- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> From a hacking standpoint, that's more of a statutory filing, but here, the security space is highly communicative. They talk to each other, and it's a trust relationship, so you're essentially bringing an independent event, you're funding it. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's not your event, this is an independent event. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, and so Tom said it very well, as an institute, we rely on the financial capital that comes in from our partners, like Centrify. And so we would be unable to deliver at a large scale the value that we do to the legislative community, to federal agencies, and the commercial sector, and the institute's research is being shared on NATO libraries and embassies around the world. So this is really a global operation that we have. And so when we talk about layered security, right, we're not into a silver bullet solution. A lot of faux experts out there say, "I have the answer." We know that there's a layered approach that needs to be done. Centrify, they have the technology that plays a part in that, but, even more important than that for us is that they share that same philosophy and we do see ourselves as being able to usher in the changes required to move everything forward. And so it's been a great, you know, we have a lot of plans for the next few years. >> Yeah, that's great work, you're bringing in some great content to the table, and that's what people want, and they can see who's enabling it, that's a great business model for everyone. I got to ask one question, though, about your business. I love the critical infrastructure focus and I like your value you guys are bringing. But you guys have this fellow program. Can you just talk about this, 'cause your a part of the fellowship-- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> You're on a level, and I don't want to say credit 'cause you're not really going to get credit. But it's a badge, it's a bar. >> Yeah, yeah, no-- >> Explain the fellow program. >> That's a great question. At the institute, we have a core group of experts who represent different technology niches. They make up our fellow program, and so as I discussed earlier, when we're putting out research, when we're educating the media, when we're advising congress, when we're doing the work of the institute, we're constantly turning back to our fellow program members to provide some of that research and expertise. And sharing, you know, not just providing financial capital, but really bringing that thought leadership to the table. Centrify is a part of our fellows program, and so we've been working with them for a number of years. It's very exclusive and there's a process. You have to be referred in by an existing fellow program member. We have a lot of requests, but it really comes down to, do you understand what we're trying to accomplish? Do you share our same mission, our same values? And can you be part of this elite community that we've built? And so, you know, Centrify is a big part of that. >> And the cloud, obviously, is accelerating everything. You've got the cloud action, certainly, in your space, and we know what's going on in our world. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> The world is moving at a zillion miles an hour. It's like literally moving a train. So, congratulations, CyberConnect event in November. Great event, check it out, theCUBE will be there, we'll have live coverage, we broadcast, be documenting all the action and bringing it to you on theCUBE, obviously, (mumbles) John Furrier, here at Centrify's headquarters in California, in Silicon Valley, thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington DC, it's the CUBE. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner Ecosystem. >> Welcome back here on the CUBE, the flagship broadcast of Silicon Angle TV along with John Furrier, I'm John Wallace. We're here at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, the sixth one in its history. It's grown leaps and bounds and still a great vibe from the show for us. It's been packed all day John. >> It's the new reinvent for the public sector, so size wise it's going to become a behemoth very shortly. Our first conference, multi-year run covering Amazon, thanks to Theresa Carlson for letting us come and really on the front lines here, it's awesome. It's computing right here, edge broadcasting, we're sending the data out there. >> We are, we're extracting the signal from the noise as John always likes to say. Government, educations all being talked about here this week. And with us to talk about that is Max Peterson, he's a general manager at the AWS and Max, thank you for joining us, we appreciate that. >> Thank you for the invitation. >> And I knew we were in trouble with our next guest, cause I said this is John, I'm John, he said, this is Max and I'm Max. I said no you're not, I know better than that. Andre Pienaar who's a founder and chairman of C5 Consulting, Andre, thank you for being here on the CUBE. >> It's great pleasure being here. >> Alright let's just start off first off with core responsibilities and a little bit about C5 too for our audience. First off, if you would Max, tell us a little bit about your portfolio-- >> Sure. >> At AWS and then Andre, we'll switch over to C5. >> I think I might have the best job in the world because I get to work with government customers, educational institutions, nonprofits who are all working to try and improve the lives of citizens, improve the lives of students, improve the lives of teachers and basically improve the lives of people overall. And I do that all around the world. >> That is a good job. Yeah, Andre. >> Max will have to arm wrestle for who has got the best job in the world, because in C5, we have the privilege of investing into fast growing companies that are built on Amazon Cloud and that specializes in cyber security, big data and cloud computing and helps to make the world a safer place. >> I'm willing to say >> Hold on I think we have the best job. >> we both have the best job. >> Now wait a minute, we get to talk to the two of you, are you kidding? >> Yeah, I've got the best, we talk to all the smartest people like you guys and it can't get better than that. >> You're just a sliver of our great day. >> That's awesome, we have established we all have great jobs. >> Andre, so you hit cyber, obviously there is not a hotter topic, certainly in this city that is talked about quite a bit as you're well aware so let's just talk about that space in general and the kinds of things that you look for and why you have this interest and this association with AWS. >> So the AWS cloud platform is a game changer for cyber security. When we started investing in cyber security, and people considered cloud, one of their main concerns was do I move my data into the cloud and will it be secure? Today it's the other way around because of the innovation that AWS has been driving in the cyber security space. People are saying, we feel we are much more secure having the benefit of all innovation on the cloud platform in terms of our cyber security. >> And the investment thesis that you guys go after, just for the record, you're more on the growth side, what stage of investments do you guys do? >> We're a later stage investor so the companies we invest in are typically post revenue but fast growing in visibility and on profitability. >> So hot areas, cyber security, surveillance, smart cities, autonomous vehicles, I mean there's a data problem going on so you see data and super computing coming back into vogue. Back when I was a youngling in college, they called it data processing. The departments and mainframes, data processing and now you have more compute power, edge compute, now you have tons of data, how is all that coming in for and inching in the business models of companies. This is a completely different shift with the cloud. But you still need high performance computing, you still need huge amounts of data science operations, how do companies and governments and public sectors pull up? >> I think just the sheer volume of data that's being generated also by the emerging internet of things necessitates new models for storing and processing and accessing data and also for securing it. When big enterprises and governments think about cyber security, they really think about how do we secure the most valuable data that's in our custody and our stewardship and how do we meet that obligation to the people who have provided that data to us. >> How would you summarize the intrinsic difference between old way, new way? Old way being non-cloud and new way being cloud as we look forward? >> I think that was a pretty good summary right there. New way is cloud, old way is the legacy that people have locked up in their data centers and it's not just the hardware that is the legacy problem, the data is the legacy problem. Because when you have all that information built in silos around government, it makes it impossible to actually implement a digital citizen experience. You as a citizen would like to be able to just ask your question of government and let them sort out what your postal code was, what your benefits information was, right? You can't do that when you've got the data, much less the systems, locked up in a whole bunch of individual departments. >> Well merging of data, sharing data as an ethos and the cyber security world, where there's an ethos of hey, you know, we're going to help each other out because the more data, the more they can get patterns into the analytics which is a sharing culture. That's not really the way it is. I got governance, I got policy issues. >> Well policing is a good example. In the Washington DC area, there are 19 law enforcement agencies with arresting powers and that data is being kept in completely separate silos. Whereas if we're able to integrate and share that data, you will be able to draw some very useful predictive policing conclusions from that which can prevent and detect crime. >> That's a confidence issue and that's where your security point weighs in. Let me get back to what you said about the old way, new way thing. Another bottleneck or barrier, or just hurdle if you will, in cloud growth, has been cultural. Mindset of management and also operational practices, you have a waterfall development cycles or project management versus agile, which is different. That's a different cultural thing so you got all the best intentions in the world, people could raise their hand put stuff in the cloud, but if you can't scale out, you're going to be on this cadence where projects aren't going to get that ROI picture generated so the agility, how are you guys seeing that developing? >> I would tell you the first thing that it takes is leaders and that's what this conference is about. It's about telling the stories of customers who have seen the potential and who are now leaders. It takes something, it takes a spark to start it and the most powerful spark that we've seen, are customer testimonials, who come forward and they explain, hey I was doing this the old way. A lot of times for a cost reason or a new mandate, they have to come up with a new way to invent and they made that selection of the cloud and that's what so often changed the opportunity that they can address. Here's just using that data as an example, transport for London in the UK has a massive amount of data that comes from all of the journey information. They started their journey to the cloud four years ago and it started with the simple premise of I needed to save costs. They saved money and they were able to take that money and reprogram it now to figuring out how do we unlock the data to generate more information for commuters. Finally, they were able to take that learning and start spinning it into how do I actually improve the journey by using machine learning, artificial intelligence and big data techniques? Classic progression along the cloud. Save some money, reinvest the savings and then start delivering new innovation on that point. >> I was going to ask you the use cases. You jumped right in. Andre, can you just chime in and share your opinion on this or anecdotal or story or data around use cases that you see out there that can point to saying, that's game changing that's transformative, that's disruptive. >> Well one of the customer stories that Max referred to that was a real game changer in cyber security was when the CIA said that they were going to adopt the AWS cloud platform. Because people said if US Intelligence community has the confidence to feel secure on AWS cloud, why can't we? AWS have evolved cyber security from being an offering which is on top of the cloud and the responsibility of the client to something which is inside the cloud which involves a whole range of services and I think that's been a complete game changer. >> The CIA deal, Dave Velanto is not here, my partner in crime as well, I call it the shot heard all around the cloud, that was a seminal moment for AWS in chronicling your guys journey over the years but I've been following you guys since the barely birth days and how you've grown up, that was a really critical moment for AWS in the public sector so I want to ask you guys both a question, right now, 2017 here at public sector conference, what's the perception of AWS outside of the ecosystem? Clearly cloud is the new normal, we heard previously, I agree with that. But what's the perception of the viability, the production level? What's the progress part in the minds of the folks? How far are we in that journey cause this is a breakout year, this year. That was the shot heard around the cloud, now there seems to be a breakout year, almost a hockey stick pick up. >> It's another example of how it takes leadership and it was the shot heard round the cloud, what we're seeing though is now many, many people are picking up that lead and using it to their advantage. The National Cyber Security Center in the UK told a story today that's pretty much a direct follow on. They're now describing to their agencies what they should do to be safe on the cloud. They're not giving them a list of rules that they need to try and go check off. It's very much about enabling and it's very much about providing the right guidance and policy. It's unlocking it instead of using security as a blocker in that example. Much more than just that one example, all over the world-- >> But people generally think okay this is now viable. So in terms of the mind of the people out in the trenches, not in the front lines like here, thoughts on your view on the perception of the progress bar on AWS public sector. >> John, one of the best measures of how the AWS cloud is perceived is what's happening in the startup scene. 90% of all startups today get born on the Amazon cloud in the US. 70% of all startups in France gets born in AWS cloud. This is the future voting for cloud and saying this is where we want to be, this is where we can scale this is where we can grow-- >> If you can believe APIs will be the normal operational interface subsystems and data, then you essentially have a holistic distributed cloud, aka computer. That's the vision. So what's the challenge? What do you guys see as the challenge, is it just education, growth? You only have 10,000 people here, it's not like it's 30 yet. >> Well you heard one of the, or you hit on one of the things that's key and that's policy. You really do have to break through the old government bureaucracy and the old government mentality and help set the new policies. Whether it's economic policies that help enable small businesses to launch and use the cloud. Whether it's procurement policies that allow people to actually buy tech and use tech fast, or whether it's the basic policy of the country. The UK now has a policy of being digital native, cloud native. >> The ecosystem's interesting, Andre, you mentioned startup, because I think for me, challenge opportunity is to have Amazon scale up, to handle the tsunami of Ecosystem partners that could be as you said, we just talked to Fugue here. Amazing startup funded by New Enterprise Associates, NEA, they're kicking ass, they're just awesome. You go back 10 years ago, they wouldn't even be considered. >> Absolutely. >> So you've got an opportunity to jam everyone in the marketplace and let it be a free for all, it's kind of like a fun time. >> It's a great time and in the venture capital world, being architect on the Amazon cloud has become a badge of quality. So increasingly venture capital firms are looking for startups that run on the AWS cloud and use them in an innovative way. >> Well on the efficiency on the product side, but also leverage on the capital side. >> Exactly. You need less capital. >> Been a provision of data center, what? >> You need less capital and secondly, also, you can fail much faster and then still have space and time to build it and restart. I think failing faster is something from an investment point of view that is really attractive. >> John: Final question. >> John: Failing faster? >> Failing faster. Because what you don't want are the long drawn out deaths of businesses. Because that's a sure way to destroy value of money. >> I think the other part though is fix faster. >> Fix faster. >> And that's exactly what the cloud does so instead of spending an immense amount of time and energy trying to figuring out precisely what I need to build, I can come up with the basic idea, I can work quick, I can fail fast, but I can fix it fast. >> Alright, well you mentioned the golden time, the golden era, and I think you both have captured it, so I think both your jobs would be up there at the top of the shelf. >> Thank you John. >> You mentioned 19 agencies by the way here in DC that can arrest, I have parking tickets from every one of them. >> Andre: I'm glad they haven't arrested you yet John. >> No, that's the price you pay for living in this city. >> Thanks John and John. >> Max, Andre thank you very much. >> John and John thank you. >> Cheers. >> Back with more here from AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, live, Washington DC, you're watching the CUBE.