>> Announcer: Live from Washington D.C, it's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT Conference. Bought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to .NEXT everybody inside the district kind of. This is Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. We're with theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two of NEXTConf. Aaditya Sood is here, he's the director of, Senior Director of Engineering and Products at Nutanix and Binny Gill who is the Chief Architect at the company. Gentlemen welcome to theCUBE. >> Both: Thank you. >> Good to see you again. >> Nice to be here. >> So you guys had the great keynote I love how, Dheerraj interacts with you on the stage. Asks you these Columbo questions even though he has deep knowledge of what's goin' on it's really quite good. But Binny let me start with you, first of all what's the show like this year we've been now this is our third year doing. >> Yeah. >> NEXT, we've seen quite an evolution. From your standpoint from the hardcore product side what are you seeing? >> I think it's exciting to be here, this year we are seeing almost every year doubling of the attendance in the conference and also the excitement that we hear from our Nutanix technical champions and our customers is a lot more visceral. In terms of how much we are doing in terms of vision and mission and as we are executing on our vision that has always been are we sure you can do it kind of thing, but as we deliver every year there's more conviction that we are seeing from all these people here so it's really exciting. >> Aaditya I wonder if you could talk about Calm a little bit it is your baby. People say Calm I'm calm, is the joke goin' around today what is Calm? >> Well Calm is many things at once, but most of all it's a control plane at the application layer. How do you build this multi-cloud hybrid cloud technology together? And manage the entire life cycle, compliance, governance, provisioning, costing, visibility all of these things together? >> And Aaditya there's many companies that have tried to attack this challenge why did you when you help co-found Calm think that you could address this and bring us up to speed as to the acquisition last year what is being part of Nutanix what did that do to the product itself to lead us to today? >> I think addressing the first part of your question why we think this is different many people have tried to do this, blueprints and these things over the many decades automation has been around. But I think this is fundamentally 10X to a 100X better because of the logical approach we are taking, the data model we have built which models applications and tries to keep the logical layer separate from the physical layer or the virtual layer. Thinking about the Nutanix integration was homecoming. This was, practically nothing changed from our point of view except that we got, became part of a much bigger family, a lot of warmth there a lot of technical goodness, a lot of I would say systems level and platform goodness that got leveraged in. So it's been all pretty great the last say what nine months or so. >> Alright Binny we want to get your view point of course Nutanix has been growing its ecosystem. We've got a big expo hall with a lot of partners there, what were the goals that you wanted to make sure you hit? By the time we came to this show with Calm to meet your customers and this growing ecosystem. >> Yeah, I think what we're looking at is explaining how we are building an operating system. An operating system is a platform for running applications and now the platform for running applications in fact changing earlier it used to be Linux and Windows now it's Clouds. Cloud is an OS, and when you talk about building OSs it's about ecosystem, it's about the drivers, it's about the partners that build stuff for you. Calm is a way of inviting them to a marketplace. A repository for where you put your stuff. Calm is also your YUM in app kit tool, one click deployment of any application the more simple you make it the more a person will be attracted to your operating system so the message here is look we are developing a marketplace bringing Calm to the picture, giving an operating system that can run on any hardware. Hardware meaning any cloud, any hypervice and so on. >> How much can I ask Stu, how much that one click if you think about the the lifecycle of what has to occur in that one click and then by the way everything else that you don't do how much time do you think you're saving people? I mean take database as a service, yes one click but then you got to do regression testing, you got to do some recovery testing but you're taking away a lot of the planning presumably. >> Yeah absolutely. >> Do you have any sense as to if it takes 100 how much you just shaved off with one click? >> Yeah, I mean I think there's the best person to answer that question his team has been working on this for seven years. >> And this is something that again touching back on what Calm does differently that it understands that provisioning your application is only the beginning of your problems. You have an application now you have to grow it, scale it, it's going to blow up, you need to upgrade it, test it, certify it and all that stuff. And that's where the application lifecycle management part comes in. As a rough estimate I would say at least 70 to 80% of the complexity has gone away. There is still some complexity because there is an essential complexity in every problem cannot reduce it beyond that. But I'd say off the ballpark 70, 80. >> I like that number so I kind of baited you, the practitioner that we had on today said at least, he's being conservative because that's what IT guys do he said at least 50% so we can fairly say let's say 50 to 70% you've just taken off the table so they can now focus on higher quality, testing, recovery and even in the fun stuff as Stu likes to say. (laughs) >> Absolutely, and Aadiyta there was the joke in the keynote that this is not an app store so what do you see the one click is obviously is a critical piece but how's this different from think of the Amazon Marketplace or other we've talked about do we need an enterprise app store, how is this different, how do customers perceive this? What early feedback have you been getting? >> I think one of the problems that we are trying to solve and how we are looking at it is every platform let's say every public cloud, every private cloud they have some amount of tooling and automation already built in. But from a customer point of view these are all just different independent silos. So if you go look at any marketplace it's on EWS only. And what we are trying to do is this is means to an end. I'm running five different kind of infrastructure stacks I want a single app store for my consumers internally. My business user doesn't care where the application is provisioned as long as we can write them the right SLAs and cost ROI for their internal application. >> What's important about this, I wonder if we can riff on it for a bit so we weren't the first to say this I think it was probably Benioff that more non-tech companies will be SaaS companies than tech companies. So that says that they need a stack to build their SaaS. So that marketplace that you showed you had Cassandra, Mongo, MySQL and Redes and TensorFlow and all of these tools. That'll allow a SaaS provider to build their own stack. So I wonder if we could talk about this a little bit in terms of the vision of the next generation company, not just tech company. And how you see yourselves fitting into that as an enabler. Comments. >> I think as an analogy I'd like to take how they the electronics industry evolved. Back in the 70's and 80's the semi-conductor explosion happened. And any kind of functionality that I wanted I looked at the catalog, I looked at the cost, the yield rates, the functionality that chip provided. I just went and bought those chips and I plugged them in, and I built my (mumbles) out of it. And this is how I think this is going to evolve. That we are just going to move the level of abstraction one higher level. Have usable fundamental components, compose them together and have a faster time to market. Do as an application developer do I really need to understand how Bongo scales and how it's provisioned and how it's backed up and everything? I want a single EPI or a one click experience equal in my view to just plug it into my application and then go on from there. And then take this my application and deliver it as a unit to my user which can then go ahead and just like Lego blocks keep building higher and higher layers of functionality. >> Yeah Aaditya brought up a key point there with APIs right. Anytime an OS is developed after some point you talk about what is the standardization of APIs on top of this OS? Like Posix was a standard of APIs in an operating system. This new cloud operating system is actually asking for a standardization of API so that the applications built on top of it can enjoy a guaranteed stable API that'll be portable across various hardwares and clouds. We are seeing the beginning of the that kind of API with the work that Aaditya's team is doing around our blueprints, our lifecycle that's coming to the floor right now. >> Aaditya one of the things I usually hear after a company gets acquired by a bigger company is the amount of feedback they get from the customers. Nutanix is a little bit self-selecting customers that are usually looking to try something different. What's been your experience with the Nutanix customer base? Has that impacted or shifted where you were looking to drive the product? >> It has certainly, informed the product roadmap but I wouldn't say it has fundamentally changed it. Because one of the key things and one of the great things about Nutanix is that we are building open systems. Which is why even in the keynote that you saw when we are going and provisioning an application we are not saying this is Nutanix only, we are treating each of the computer platform an independent equivalent level. And that was our vision right from the start to bring the goodness at the top layer and then leverage some deep platform stuff like we can obviously work best on Nutanix because we get underlying data from the storage systems, the virtualization systems and we'll run on that. But, yeah fundamentally it has not really changed anything. >> Ambitious. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> Binny the question I have for you is if I look at the public cloud they all want to own the applications in one way or another. Google's pretty a little bit more open but Microsoft lots of business apps, Amazon have dealt with next generation apps, how does Nutanix look at that app ownership? Obviously you come from the infrastructure side but how does your view point differ say from some other clouds? >> Our viewpoint is more like how players like Apple look at owning the app. I mean you have an app store or a marketplace but that is sort of democratic I do have my own apps I could have my mail app, my camera app but I am neutral in the sense that I enable others to create a better app if they can because it only helps my platform. So we are in the business of creating the best in class operating system we're calling it Enterprise Cloud Operating System and then enabling that cloud operating system to run on any farm factor any hypervice and or hardware or going all the way to the edge as you might have talked to others in this conference our cloud operating system can run on a single node now down from three nodes, to two nodes to one node to a intel node in a drone. That is where we're going, enable everybody. And on these various farm factors different applications would run. I would say a small fraction of the applications that are key to most customers to get to 80% of the simple use cases might come from us but the majority of the use cases would come from outside. And eventually we look at this as we primarily building the OS and the world building an app, app store or marketplace on top of us. >> Alright gents we have to leave it there. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> It was really a pleasure seeing you again. >> As always take care. >> Okay keep it right there Stu and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is theCUBE we're live from NEXTConf in D.C.. We'll be right back. (exciting music)

live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you buy vmware and its ecosystem sponsors and welcome back here on the cube to continue our coverage to vmworld from mandalay bay along with peter burrows i'm john woloson it's a pleasure to welcome two fellows are know all about being on the cube one of them very recently Kim Barth is back with a CEO and co-founder of catalyzing software came good to see you oh it's great to see you and Eric Herzog I mean the Hawaiian shirt we know is is your signature moment it was finally a vice president probably marketing and management at IBM but you're an original cubist you said that I think the first year that the cube happened I was on with Dave eons ago must have been either 2010 or 2011 the first cube ever we got to make you like an emeritus member of the Alumni Association something and let it be careful when we say say cubist let's be very clear about it right now I've got to mix words here yeah kubera all right so if you would let's take a look at talk about your relationship Kenta logic at IBM I know you have a long-standing partnership you might call that that's evolving and getting a little bit stronger and Ken if you would maybe paint that picture a little bit oh look I mean these guys are just fantastic to work with we've been working with IBM for a couple of years now we're excited because we're going to continue to move the relationship forward and we've got some exciting new announcements about supporting even more of their storage coming out later this year what we're really excited about is the way that they've jumped in and they have a complete line of flash products and as you know from our conversation the other day flash is just taking the market absolutely by storm particular around the primary applications so what we've done at IBM is dramatic extend our portfolio this year we've been a market leader for years in all flash and we see flashes ubiquity cross all primary data sets so whether that be the high-performance databases VMware environments are virtualized environments cloud configurations big data linux doesn't matter what the workload is and we have all sorts of price points all sorted from performance yo flash does have different performance characteristics depending on how you configure it now you use it substantially now of course any flash configuration abstention faster than a traditional storage array or any hybrid array 10x to as much as a hundred x in real-world application spaces so we've expanded it down from our high end into very cost effective energy products as low as nineteen thousand dollars street price not lit not right there at the point of attack end-user raid five configuration for nineteen thousand we have big data analytics all flash configurations we have mainframe in the upper end of the Linux community of what's left of the UNIX world that's still out there that few Solaris and AIX business we have a lot of products of that space again all going flash and it doesn't matter what the workload is virtualized workloads database workloads virtual server workloads virtual desktop workloads cloud workloads new world databases Splunk spark Bongo Hadoop Cassandra all of those types of workloads now can be all flash and we have the right workloads with the right solution at the rice price point and you pick the right price point right solution you need for the right workload an application and when it seems to me that you talk about performance obviously key factor their speed you know off the charts but cost is the one that once that's been solved as you said is that the big nighter is that's what's going to like the what you're seeing is flash is essentially at the same price as disk was so there's a number of storage efficiency technologies on the primary side which is a we do cattle onic edges efficiency technologies on the copy side because so much copies of data are made not only for disaster protection but for test and dev snapshotting that's n used for backup so they track all that to get efficiency on the secondary side of the equation we do things like real time compression you block level d do we have all kinds of technologies dying to cut the cost of flash and so when you factor that in flash is way less expensive actually then disc and when you look at how it impacts your data center so for example if you were running certain workloads we have a real world public reference to run their work blood which is database work look took 80 servers because the storage was so slow so you over provision your servers because of what's called storage latency that customer just swapped out the storage for flash and went from 80 physical servers to 10 to the exact same workload so the impact of flash is not just performance oriented it's actually very cost oriented not just what does it cost per gigabyte for the storage but if you can take out 70 servers you just cut not only the capex on his server farm right all the operational expenditures around it and then what cat logic does people make copies of the primary data sets and they make everything efficient on the copy cider if you will the secondary side of storage and so they complement each other what we do on primary what they do on secondary so let's talk about that a little bit so if you think about it there no productivity is a function of the amount of work that you can do divided by the amount of cost or resources consumed to form that word so flash has significant benefits as you just said that cause side but when we start talking about a lot more copies that can be made available to developers or decision-makers in a lot of different forms now we're accelerating the speed by which that digital assets get created and we're improving productivity not just through efficiency and the cost but accelerating the value that I t's able to deliver through the business that's exactly right you're hitting the nail on the head because as Eric over here said it saves capex and opex with just slash but if you had a copy data management product particularly one like ours that has it's really a combination a copy data management we have a workflow engine and we have full access to rest api's that the customer can begin to tailor it to their environment and solve a lot of pain points like around test dev database copies snap copies things like that you know they did some studies IDC actually did some studies earlier this year we're at any given time a customer would have 50 copies of different data floating around the neighborhood 50 snaps and the reason this is a complex issue is because you have many different storage types taking many different stamps you have applications snaps and so if you think about it this all starts by organizing the snaps putting them in a searchable database if you will then offering a workflow engine where you can automate the process even make it self service right and at the end of the day what can happen is they can move delete so they really kind of you have control over your environment but what they can do is they can begin to really save huge money so with flash you're going to have good kept at x + op X but if you put our ECX product in which is what a lot of our customers call copy data management on steroids you can see geometric savings of that op X and capex but you're also accelerate development time absolutely official with all about efficiencies you all those things are absolutely improved absolutely right and then if you start having like we have arrested a series of rest api's you can begin to really tailor it to that customers environment so if you're doing again I go back to the test dev example and test dev we can tie that directly into things like puppets chef bluemix right these are all development tools that make it totally efficient for the software developer right that's just one use case will we go ahead no so Eric as I new introduces more of these products arguments in the storage business for a long time forever yeah ain't that about me and respects IBM created the whole concept of storage administration whatever was 30 years ago now but as IBM does this is storage increasingly being elevated as customers see their data volumes going up and the need to track where this data is who's using it the number of copies in place how is that impacting the way IBM thinks about the concept of an overall system well we look at it from the application space it's all about the applications workloads and use cases and customers want to optimize the business value of that data so as it's growing exponentially you'd be able to access that data quickly and most importantly it needs to be always there so everyone talks about speech BCC speed for flash it's not just about speed of flash your Flash ray needs to be reliable available and serviceable just like our driver ray had to be and so you're looking at different characteristics and performance different characteristics and price different characteristics in the rats capability the reliability available in serviceability and you tie that to what you need for your workloads we've had the highest in oracle database in a company let's say that company is all oracle so you need something like our flash systems a 9000 or flash system 900 but if you've got the oracle database that tracks their asset management which would mean things like chairs tables and whiteboards that's not high performance that could go on our store wise 50 30 f which is way more cost effective and it's incredibly fast compared to our driver e but not as fast as our flash systems so it's very important a that you have the performance but be if you don't have the reliability doesn't matter how fast you are if the thing fails then your cloud goes down your virtual environment goes down your VMware doesn't work you can't access that Oracle or there sa p or that Hadoop and so it's really about how to optimize those workloads those applications and those use cases and storage is the rock-solid foundation underneath that allows you to do that absolutely and when you're going into world that's all about cloud which means real-time access and self service and the self-service suspect by the way it means that you don't always have a store gentlemen accessing it so if the thing fails and the guy's a VMware admin or a developer in Oracle or in any other environment he doesn't know what to do so you can't have the storage fee land in cognitive workloads and big data analytics workloads where you're running petabytes and petabytes and petabytes of information as fast as you possibly can you're trying to make business decisions or rail times you need the speed so what if it's super fast and then it fails so to put it on a black trading you know database for black trading for example or some of financial applications if it's really fast and then it fails that didn't help it hurts you so it's all about how to manage those workloads applications use cases natural for performance which everyone knows flash is but all that reliability available in the serviceability and then they manage a cat logic on the back side all the copies that people create which is it which is critical to make sure that those get managed appropriately and you don't have you really need 50 copies but you don't want 150 it is completely and efficient on the storage side and then developer doesn't know what to use so you just made it worse for yourself so you just introduce raise an interesting point related to data governance so I know that obviously cata logic has some ideas about how data governance is likely evolved partly in response to the need to manage multiple San apples understand where they are talk to us a little bit about how data governance which is fundamentally about how a business brings policy roles responsibilities to assets as data becomes more of an asset house governance changing oh I think governance is huge because dated you know data is exploding and particularly you start moving you have numbers of copies like Eric was saying how do you track that how do you know where it is how do you you know if you're in a compliance based business you could be in a lot of trouble so you've got to make sure you can audit and know where it goes and again one of the ways to do that is to keep it under control and not have so many copies floating around in his example you might make 10 to 15 copies of that database why do that if you only need one right that's one of our big advantages that we have versus some of our competitors we do what's called in place copy data management which means we we simply leverage Eric's great storage out there so a lot of our competitors will actually put a copy of that they'll make a copy on Eric storage move it to their storage and then you've kind of exacerbated the problem a little bit right what's like hoarding right exactly right but I and I mean kind of the Peters pointing some what you're saying is is that because we can we do right and so we make all these copies and it's exactly not need you know fifth down but but because I can and it's cheaper and storage is going down like cleaning out that closet we all have that closet at the house that we just keep putting stuff in and one of these days we think we're going to clean it out and the thing just grows and grows and they have to buy another house to get another closet so again how does this all this curb that behavior and that allow me to monitor through some governance policy when somebody is going over the line and we bring it back of the line and and we get a little more regular restrictive act again because of our workflow engine that we have in the product you can set thresholds you can automate the process so is example when a you know when a DBA or somebody gets a copy of the database you can put a time limit on when it's going to wipe it out they're going to stay in sync across the board so again you're not replicating this thing time and time again they're getting timely data when they need it and then it can automatically be removed but if I mean time one of the biggest problems within an IT organization is making available making data available to the disparate groups that need it solutely administrative costs of I need data well we'll get around to giving you that second to sorry in September right being able to do this much faster and utilize flaps technologies to facilitate that process has an impact on cost has an impact on the benefits which increases productivity has an impact of governance but also is an impact on the healthy friendly relations between IT and the business yes well what's happening is you're undergoing a revolution in the data center cloud obviously it's started with virtualization now it's extending to the cloud now you have a line of business that's more involved in IT than it's ever been before so the last thing you want is to worry about your storage or you just want it to be the foundation okay I'm from Silicon Valley we have earthquakes buildings really fall down on earthquakes if they have a bad foundation if you have a rock-solid foundation your cloud your cognitive your database workloads will always be fine you want to make sure that as you're doing that you're doing a cost effectively so both high performance that you need but high performance has a whole bunch of different price points at high performance because the entire world's got high performance other thing from an IT perspective and a business on a perspective flash storage is actually the evolution the revolutions the rest of the data center right I'm old enough where when I took my first computer class of University of California not a punch card then it all went tape anyone's seen a 1985 Schwarzenegger spy movie it's all tape then you see a 1995 Schwarzenegger spy movie and it's all hard drive arrays now it's all flash arrays so it's just an evolution from a storage perspective and it coincides with a revolution in the data center of cloud cognitive big data analytics real-time evaluation of data sets and so flash is coming at the fur and perfect time as you have this revolutionary confluence in the data center in the cloud and the web application workload yusuke space the fact that flash is only at evolution is actually great because you don't have to worry about it it's just an evolution of storage and allows you to take advantage of the revolution in your gayness enter your application or workload space that's the way the flash brings is is it's not a revolution it helps the revolution it does because as Eric was saying it you want to modernize your data center is what you're out to do and if you splash is a good step towards that and then if you had a copy data management tool like our product ECX on top of it it gives you the flexibility to move to the cloud move move it move data up to the cloud and back right it allows you to start offering self-service to your people so it doesn't take you know weeks or days to get that copy of the data they can start doing it themselves so it's a step in the right direction as he said from an evolution to the revolution of the data center yeah I'll bet out there somewhere right now there are a couple Millennials watching say did you already said about punch cards what a punch good oh no that's all it's all about date at the right place at the right time for the right people and you guys are a great example of getting that job done and thanks for being with us and sharing your story and we wish you continued success that's right I'd like to say one thing with you it is finished real quick if anybody out there has SVC or if they have in the flash from IBM please come see us we've got a great product that will greatly increase the capex it's cattle ajik software or can bart thank you gentlemen for being with us here on the cube we continue our coverage from vmworld after this thank you