(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE covering Kubecon and CloudNative Con brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Kubecon CloudNative Con here in San Diego. I'm Stu Miniman and my co-host is Justin Warren. And one of the things we always love to do is really dig in to some of the customer use cases. And joining us to do that, Andrey Rybka, who's the head of Compute Architecture and the CTO Office at Bloomberg. Andrey, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> All right, so just to set the stage, last year we had your colleague Steven Bauer, came, talked about your company's been using Kubernetes for a number of years. You're a member of the CNCF as one of those end users there and you're even an award winner. So, congratulations on all the process. You've been doing if for years, so all the problems, I'm sure are already solved, so now we just have a big party, right? >> Yes, well I'm mean certainly we are at the stage where things are quite mature and there's a lot of workloads that are running Kubernetes. We run Kubernetes on-premises. Steven has an excellent data sense platform that does machine learning with GPUs and bare metal. We also have a really excellent team that runs basically Platform as a Service, generic Platform as a Service, not GPUs but effectively runs any kind of stateless app or service and that's been extremely successful and, you know there's a lot interest in that. And we also run Kubernetes in Public Cloud. So, a lot of workloads for like Bloomberg.com, actually are backed now by Kubernetes. >> Yeah, so we want to spend a bunch of time talking about the applications, the data, the services, that you've built some PaaS's there. Yes, so step us back for a second if you would, and give us the, What led to Kubernetes? And as you said, you've got your on-premises environment, you've got Public Cloud, where was that when you started and what's the role of Kubernetes and that today? >> Sure, we started back in 2015, evaluating all kinds of sort of container orchestration platforms. It's very clear that developers love containers for its portability and just the ability to have the same environments that runs kind of on-premises or on your laptop and runs on the actual deployment environment, the same thing, right? So, we looked at Mesos, Marathon, Cloud Foundry, even OpenShift before it was Kubernetes. And we, in no specific order continuously evaluate all different options and once we make a decision, we recommend to the engineering team and work in partnership with engineers. So all of those awards and everything, actually I want to say, that this is really a kudos to our engineering team. We just a small part of the puzzle. Now as far as like how we made the Kubernetes selection, it was a bit risky. We started with a pre-alpha version and you know I read the Borg paper, how Google actually did Borg. And when I sort of realized, well they're trying to do the same thing with Kubernetes. It was very clear, this is kind of, you know we're going to build on mature experience, right. So, some what it was risky but also a safe bet because you know there was some good computer science and engineering behind the product. So we started alpha version, they're consumer web groups actually were one of the first deployments of there kind of Kubernetes and they present them at the first Kubecon. It was an excellent talk on how we did Kubernetes and you know we came a long way since then. We've got sort of now, probably about 80 to 100 clusters running and you know, they run full high availability, DR -1. I would say it is one of the most reliable environments that we have, you know. We have frequently, you know infrastructure outages, hypervisors, you know, obviously hardware fails, which is normal, and we rarely see any issues and actually you know no like any major issues whatsoever. So, the things we expected out of Kubernetes, the things like reliability, elastic infrastructure, auto-scaling, the multi-tenancy it all worked out. Higher density of sort of packing the nodes, you know that's another great sort of value add that we expected but now we finally realizing that. >> So, one question I've had from a lot of customers, particularly traditional enterprises who are used to doing things and have a lot of virtual machine infrastructure. They're looking at Kubernetes but they're finding it somewhat opaque, a little bit scary. Talk us through, How did you convince the business that this was the choice that we should make and that we need to change the way that we're developing applications and deploying applications and we want to do this with Kubernetes? How did you convince them that this was going to be okay in the end? >> Yes, yes, that's a really good question. A lot of people were scared and you know they were, is this going to break things or you know is this just a shiny new thing. And there was a lot of education that had to occur. We've shown a lot of POCs now. The way we exposed Kubernetes was not just like raw Kubernetes. We actually wanted to keep it safe, so we sort of stayed away from some, like more alpha type of workloads and moved towards kind of like the more stable things. And so, we exposed it Platform as a Service. So, the developers did not actually get to necessarily like kubectl you know, apply a config and just deploy the app. We actually had a really good sort of offering where we had kind of, almost like Git-flow kind of environment where you have, you know your source control, then you have CICD pipeline and then once it goes through all those check and balances, you deploy your containers. So from that perspective, we actually hid quite a bit of things that made things a bit dangerous or potentially a little bit more complicated. And that's proven to be the right strategy because right now as far as the reliability I would say this is probably one of the most reliable environments that we have. And this is by design, you know. We basically tell the developers, by default you're supposed to run at least two replicas at least two Data Centers by default or two, you know, regions or two availability zones, and you can't change that. There's some people who are asking me like can I just deploy just in one Data Center, I'm like, I'm sorry, no. Like by default its like that. And auto-scaling on so if one Data Center goes and you need DR -1, so if you started with two minimum replicas then it auto-scales to four or whatever that will be set. So, you know, I think we've basically put a prototype of a proof of concept relatively fast. And We've got with the initial Platform as a Service, you know from zero to actual delivery in about three months. A lot of building blocks were there and we just put kind of the pieces of the puzzle together. >> All right, that does echo a lot of the discussion that was at had in the keynote today, even was about looking at making Kubernetes easier to consume, essentially by having all of these sensible defaults like you mentioned. You will have two replicas. It will run in these two different zones. And kind of removing some of that responsibility for those decisions from the developers. >> Andrey: Yes. >> How does that line up with the idea of DevOps which seems to be partly about making the developers a bit more responsible for their service and how it runs in production. It sounds like you've actually taken a lot of that effort away from them by, we've done all this work for you so you don't have to think about that anymore. >> I mean a little bit of background, we have about 5,500 engineers. So, expecting everybody to learn DevOps and Kubernetes is not realistic, right? And most developers really want to write applications and services that add business value, right? Nobody wants to really manage networking at the lower level, you know there's a lot of still complexity in this environment, right? So, you know, as far as DevOps, we've built shared kind of teams that have basically like, think of like centralized SRE teams that build the core platform components. We have a world class kind of software infrastructure group which builds those type of components. On top of the sort of, the technology infrastructure team that caters to the hardware and the virtualization infrastructure built on OpenStack. So you know, there is very much kind of a lot of common services/shared services teams that build that as a platform to developers and that is how we can scale. Because, you know, it's very hard to do that if every team is just sort of duplicating each one of those things. >> So Andrey, let's talk a little bit about your application portfolio. >> Andrey: Sure. >> Bloomberg must have thousands of applications out there. >> Andrey: Yes, yes. >> From what you were describing, is this only for kind of net new applications. If I want to use it I have to build something new, replacing something else or, or can you walk us through kind of what percentage is on this platform today and how is that migration or transition? >> And some is not net new, we actually did port quite a bit of the sort of the classic Bloomberg services that developers expect to the platform. And it's seamless to the developers. So, we've been doing quite a bit of sort of Linux migration meaning from like things like Solaris, AIX, and this platform was built purposefully to help developers to migrate their services. Now, they're not sort of lift and shift type of migrations. You can't just expect the, you know classic C++ shared memory app suddenly like jump and start being in containers, right? So there is some architectural changes, differences that had to be done. The type of applications that we see, you know, they're just sort of microservices oriented. Bloomberg has been around since 1981 and they've been doing service-oriented architecture since like early 90s. So, you know, things were already kind of in services kind of framework and mentality. And before, you know we had service matches, Bloomberg had its own kind of paradigm of service matches. So, all we do is kind of retro-fit the same concepts with new frameworks. And what we did is we brought in sort of like a new mentality of open source first. So, most new systems that we built, we look for kind of what about if you know, we look for open source components that can fit in this particular problem set. So there applications that we have right now, we have quite a bit of data services, data transformation pipelines, machine learning, you know, there's quite a bit of the machine learning as far as like the actual learning part of training, and then there is the inference part that runs quite a bit. We have quite a few of accounting services, like, I mentioned Bloomberg.com, and many sort of things that you would normally think of like accounting delivery services that run on Kubernetes. And I mean, at this point, we certainly try to be a little bit conscious about stateful services, so we don't run as much of databases and things like that. Eventually, we will get there once we prove the reliability and resiliency around the stateful set in Kubernetes. >> Yeah, do you have an estimate internal or goals as to what percentage your applications are on this platform now and a roadmap going forward? >> I mean, it's hard to say but going forward, I see majority of all services migrating to Kubernetes because for us, Kubernetes is become an essentially standardized compute fabric. You know, one thing that we've been missing, you know, a lot of open source projects deliver, you know virtualized infrastructure. But, you know, that's not quite enough, right. You need other sort of concepts to be there and Kubernetes did deliver that for us. And more importantly, it also delivered us kind of a, almost like a multi-cloud strategy, you know, kind of accidentally because, you know none of the cloud providers have any standard APIs of any source, right? Like, so even if use Terraform, that's not necessarily multi-cloud, it's just like you got to write HCO for each cloud provider. In Kubernetes, more or less, that becomes kind of a really solved problem. >> So which, what flavor of Kubernetes are you using? Do you leverage any of the services from the Public Cloud on Kubernetes? >> Yeah, I mean, excellent question. So, you know we want to leverage managed offerings as much as possible because things like patch and the security of you know, CVE's, and things like that, I want somebody to take care of that for me and harden things, and out of the box. So, the key to our multi-cloud strategy is use managed offering but based on open source software. So if you want to deploy services, deploy them on Kubernetes as much as possible. If you want to use databases, use manage database but based on the open source software, like Postgres, or MySQL. And that makes it affordable, right, to an extent, I mean, there's going to be some slight differences, but I do believe that managed is better than if I'm going to go and bootstrap VM's and manage my own control plane and the workers and things like that. >> Yeah, and it is a lot of additional work that I think organizations genuinely did try to roll their own and do everything themselves. There's a lot more understanding since the advent of cloud essentially that actually making someone else do this for what is essentially the undifferentiated heavy lifting. If you can get someone else to do that for you, >> Andrey: Absolutely >> it's a much better experience. Which is actually what you've built with the Kubernetes services for your developers. You are becoming that managed service for your app developers. I think a few enterprise organizations have tried to do that a little bit with centralized IT. They haven't quite got that service mentality there where I'm the product owner and I need to create something which my developers find is valuable to use so that they want to use it. >> This is exactly spot on. When I joined Bloomberg six years ago, one of the things we wanted to do is effectively offer a Public Cloud like services on-premises and now we're there. We actually have a lot of managed offerings whether you want Kafka as a service, queuing as a service, or you know, cache as a service, or even Kubernetes but not necessarily we want to expose Kubernetes as a service, we want to expose Platform as a Service. So, you hit the nail on the head because effectively developers want kind of the same things that they see in the Public Cloud. I want you know, function as a service, I want lambda something like this. Well, that's a type of Platform as a Service. So, you're spot on. >> Yeah, Andrey, last question I have for you. You know, you talked about the maturity of the managed offerings there, something we've seen a lot this year is the companies that, How am I going to manage across, you know, various environments? There we saw, you know, Microsoft with Azure, or VMware with Honzu, what do you think of that? Is that something that interests you or anything else in the ecosystem that you still think needs to mature to help your business? >> Sure, sure, I mean, I think that the use cases they're trying to address are definitely near and dear to my heart. Because we are trying to be multi-cloud. And in order to be truly mature multi-cloud sort of company, we need to have sort of mature kind of multi-cloud control plane. That has kind of the deployment address, ACD pipeline address than it need to address security, not just day one but day two, a load and monitoring and all of you know, if I were just to have three different portals to look at, it is very complicated, you're going to miss things. I want one pane of glass, right. So, what this company is addressing is extremely important and I see a lot of value in it. Now from my point of view, in general, what we prefer if it was an open source project that we could contribute and we could collaborate on, we still want to pay money for the support and what not, we don't want to just be free riders, right? But if it's an open source product and we can be part of it, it's not just read-only open source, that is definitely something that I would be very much interested in participating. And majority of the developers that we have are very happy to participate in open source. I think you seen some of our contributors here. We have some people contributing to Kubeflow. There's many other projects, we have quite a bit of cube projects like the case engineering with powerfulseal. If somebody wants to check it out, we've got some really interesting things. >> Andrey, really appreciate you sharing what you and your engineering teams are doing. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for all the contributions back to the community. >> Yep. >> For Justin Warren, I'm Stu Miniman back with more of our three day wall to wall coverage here at KubeCon CloudNative Con. Thank you for watching theCube. (dramatic music)

live from las vegas it's the cube covering discover 2016 las vegas brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise now you're your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back here and we are here live in Las Vegas for HP discover 2016 exclusive coverage from SiliconANGLE media's two cubes our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise i'm john / with my co-host dave allante and our next guest is Bobby Patrick CMO of the cloud enterprise group at HPE and Michael Loomis head of sales of global enterprise that at nuage networks pardon now part of Nokia that's right welcome back to the cube welcome for the first time thank you very much may the cube alumni club that's right it's bro my cabin I leave I gotta get a platinum membership now no VIP Thompson after six times you got we people want have a cube alumni event at these events so it's be fun next year like that we'll look at that yeah Bobby I want to get touch base on the cloud you also you'd run in the cloud group I Nokia's customer of you guys obviously HP everyone knows the history had the public cloud they kind of pivoted over and now you guys found your swim lane alright you to just take a minute right to clarify Andrey amplify what we talked about last and right I'm in London around HP's cloud strategy it's not like it's not define you guys have a clear line of sight right take a minute to just share your vision and the specifically the company's cloud strategy yeah thanks John it's great to be here again you know cloud is the catalyst for our customers transformation and our partners and got 24 here at discover onstage showcasing he lien at healing at work it up I've been there two years now and our cloud strategy couldn't be any more on fire and working this three prongs to it the first one is we want to help customers in a multi cloud world source manager consume cloud services across traditional IT private managed in public rightly so the azure partnership before we have dropbox now as well and others so we're demonstrating that second one is we want to partner with the leading technology so you mentioned the public cloud we used to have in the past now we're focused on that part of the right mix of our customers cloud strategy on public cloud partnerships so you see that Microsoft Azure specialty clouds like enter links around document collaboration you know doc Dropbox so all examples of demonstrating around partner clouds and the third one is we want to integrate our solutions with those clouds as well so managing that multi-cloud world is complex working with becomes like Nokia we're taking healing and healing OpenStack is giving Cloud Foundry we're layering on it called cloud orchestration which we now bundle as our healing Cloud suite today and we pull in public cloud we pull in manage private and traditional IT into one single solution for our customers so you mentioned as your and there's nothing in the announcements this morning that mention as yours that's the previous relationship right we announced our partners with as your last discover this one there's a number of announcements just showing it at work right our managed cloud broker offering cloud brokerage is a really big deal now for CIOs trying to manage a multi-cloud world now extends to azure so there's a lot of those announcements are going to see throughout discover with Azure and there's gonna be some other cloud announcements as well well we'll get to the eucalyptus AWS relationship kind of late if I wanted to ask you specifically around the strategy and how you see the cloud enabling delivery and on the opening i mentioned dave was asking about my views on HP's growth and I kind of use the story of back in the old days of the many computers this little laserjet attachment to walang system was a major growth engine for HP and the rest is history so we're kind of looking at the cloud and saying okay is IOT that bolt onto the cloud that is going to lift up where cloud becomes also pervasive like many computers and then distributed computing did how are you guys enabling things like IOT right because now the hybrid cloud public private data center right is integrating together right do you see that as an integration into the cloud and you enabling those kinds of things there's actually two big kind of growth axes that I think a report right one is you mentioned IOT so the number of devices connected the amount of data just huge orders of magnitude growth you got to actually drive costs down and things as well be part of that and so that's a big deal i would say universal platform that we announced as well healing is a back-end for that so massive scale on OpenStack on our cloud line service or other so you get that Maxim economics with new wash another spreading across multiple data centers for availability we have that platform for IOT but I think from a growth in March we look at the new hpe now right the lighter nimbler stronger when i layer on our security product security's number one concern our customers have going to go into cloud you know arcsight being able to do threat detection across a hybrid cloud right right the ability to do encryption with our data secure product right bringing in our big data products like Vertica for the column data store in our in our work around Hadoop or distributed are right when you get to bring those pieces into the fold right you begin to have the ability to add on top high-value software and services more of the stack you know obviously infrastructure across the bottom so what I see is us growing share of wallet growing our strategic relevance by both by both handling the massive amounts of data that's being generated supporting the connected world but also security managing that data big data fast data and providing that full stack on top and we're bringing all those pieces together but the past HP kind of have these siloed be use in a way right not anymore all these pieces are coming together and that's a big part of my my organization responsibility so Michael talked about where nuage fits in what's the relationship where do you guys add value so nuage is a what we call a software-defined networking product it's born out of some routing technology that we've had for a number of years we started our router products back in 2001 and we're number one or number two depending on the category and service provider edge routers and when you look at the the problem of scale out and flexibility in the cloud you need some complex network constructs that may not be ready of readily available in some of those cloud tools and obviously you can't go throw an expensive service provider edge router at that problem so what we did is we took that software use that as a SDN controller to manage the forwarding tables of the virtual switches or the namespace in the case of linux container integrated that into the distribution or a cloud system like Keely on and there you go you've got a stack that can scale out at the network layer and at the composite VMware killer yeah as a solution Kyle singer always talking about network and he's so proud of his acquisition of the stn player and the sierra which is a part of the vmware but dave and i always saw always saw that the network was the bottom that you seeing a rube out there yes pacifically talk about where the network piece fits in and why that's so important right now with cloud you mentioned some technical things but is it is it really the DevOps enable or is it about the containers is it about the micro services all the above what's the key will issue network is important for scale anytime you want to go multi data center or hybrid or you want to secure your applications you got to have an advanced networking solution or an SDN solution what's driving that scale you know we approach private cloud a few years back we had the stack we were putting it together we got nice production pilots up in the customers and then we found that a lot of the applications weren't built to consume the flexibility and the scale out that we delivered with that private cloud so these enterprises are going back and they've got new applications that are coming on that are micro services oriented architectures cloud native applications and they can consume this architecture and they're starting to it's not just IOT it's lots of applications that are relooking at how to take advantage of this infrastructure it's being built and that spreads across multiple data centers and part of the hybrid cloud which is why solid networking solutions important it's absolutely critical have good networking let's get to the DevOps question I'll see the big process workloads one of the things you guys have talked about in your announcements morning was obviously workload management having the ability of flexibility by poseable infrastructure yadda yadda yeah I got it Michael you that you're developing this stuff and the thing that Dave and I here and Wikibon community from customers is make it easier for me the total cost of ownership is out of control it's super hard to do this how does this get easier how are people managing through the complexity to make it simpler and how are they managing the total cost of ownership keeley on so that's just why it's important for us because we come in and we have a lot of great networking technology but people are not going to consume that networking technology in and of themselves they need a integrated complete stack that's supported installs quickly and as an orchestration layer on top that's going to allow it to scale the staples an example this I just say annealing what specifically about helium makes it simpler lower costs so when you look at healing on one great tool set they built together is an installer tool set and so there's nice scripting that's going to take when you look at a cloud you've got OpenStack components you've got your Cloud Foundry components you got your networking components storage components and to have all of that stuff install and deploy seamlessly and scale out as demand is required that doesn't come off the shelf if you're going to self integrate some of these open source projects so that the support and service that's added with helium and then if you look at the sea a slate layer on top to manage all the components and integrate in with some of the public clouds that's what takes the technology stack from being a great set of standards and a great set of open-source products that can now be consumed well dude some installation was the biggest barrier openstax had for a long time now how complex it was to install it scale right so i think that the contract and it takes it from a stack of technology to something that actually solves a business so that business problem is IT labor right right that's right non differentiated provisioning or patching or talk about the shift that's going on within that sort of labor pool from stuff that gives you no competitive advantage out to where we are today or where we're headed we used to go into proof of concepts and the customer would one or two types they either have an OpenStack expert in there someone who had lived and breathe it and was part of the original community and they would work with us to get the initial stack up and running a guy a guy or we would have to bring that guy to the table and they get somebody that was trying to be that person we'd help them stand up OpenStack at the same time we'd go in with nuage we knew that wasn't going to work so that's when we started partnering strongly with partners like healing on who can come in and make that work for the enterprise and if you're in a CIOs position you don't want to be dependent on one or two OpenStack experts that you've got to make sure stay or you gotta hire an army of OpenStack engineers what you want is a private cloud that works in a trusted partner to deliver it for you but you want the openness and the standards-based attributes of a product like Helion so you can plug other pieces of the environment in so that's it's really important Dave just you know the average the average customer that we have today has one engineer for every 240 virtual machines with helium staccato 40 which were rolling out has we believe we can get that to 12 500 and that's because you've got a universal control plane where you've got a single pane of glass basically across all the clouds but as your AWS openstack-based clouds maybe even some vmware stack clouds as well and and you could through one see the workloads deploy them that's how you really get a continuous delivery pipeline going it's api's for developers but a single pane of glass for IT and scale what's key it's working now so it brought up VMware VMware killer when you mention it so I'll bring up the VMware question so back in the day VMware ecosystem was really robust yeah some are saying it's on the decline will see that what's the update our vmworld the cube will be there again this year but they made for every one of their partners they made ten dollars for every dollar VMware book so they threw up a lot of cash which is great but the ecosystem you know feeds the feeds that feeds the beast if you will how are you guys Bobby doing that with your partners and now do you see docker for instance enabling things like that and how does that all you have to do some sort of economic advantage for your partners can you share some insight into what you got yeah yeah yeah so in addition to you know that the terms around helping it be attractive to skill up and and transfer our partners transforming as well most of them in resellers you know they want to climb the stack now they would be more relevant to their customers the skilling up does have come with cost and one of the big things we're doing is working on go to market with them actually bringing them bringing them opportunities bringing them in the deals in the case of like with with with Nokia right the ability to to go in with them work on accounts together these are major really large significant IT transformations with our other partners as well skilling them up getting bringing them away wrapping services around their monetization services wrappers yeah they're actually building hostess back up as a service other kinds of service offerings that they build and run themselves that we will actually sell to our go-to-market channels or they'll deploy on site that you know most of our business you know seventy percent goes through the channel right was there a number can you share a number ten dollars I don't have the number by the number how do stuff how does the ecosystem build around and how they make money with helion's the services is that the apps we deploy we sell software licenses so as Helion scales out we get more workloads on the system then we're going to sell more software licenses but the ecosystem is critical for us because when you're talking about building a private cloud and you're talking about building an open private cloud which is getting away from the vendor lock that exists today which is why people are driving to some of these open source products it means that a lot of products have to come together and work well together and so it usually it's the it's the OpenStack distribution that's that's like healing on that's leading that ecosystem we're a part of that and then we get interaction with a lot of other components as a part of that ecosystem that helps build an end solution to the customer we have 360 now cloud builder partners we had 30 18 months ago will have 3018 more months right we're transforming them and they're building new businesses hire marketing services and grow in their bodies how do you see the CSC Spinco whatever we're going to call that affecting is you had basically a built-in consumer right of you know your stuff there one of the Cantonian area's biggest customers right how will that shake out you think and of course CS he has a strong relationship with AWS that's goodness but yeah yeah I think I think it's about focuses meg always says writes about it's about having companies i can really focus on their best thing right so you know we have a growth high growth a growth company focus on software and hardware and infrastucture and services I think outsourcing they're coming together with CSC they're building a be a big partner of ours but we're also part with Accenture and others as well so I think it's hella everybody to be the best of what they do we'll have relationships contractual and partnership relationships but it will allow maybe a bit more complete competition probably very very healthy you feel Alfie with the sis the big power s eyes you guys in good shape with those guys yeah in Price Waterhouse Coopers just received a partner of the year for cloud they're here in a big way accenture is here yeah I think they're they're big as well but you know our enterprise services and and they're here in a big way too and I think that will continue some of the influences out there last question wants to know about the update on equal lyptus AWS that relation down can give an update yeah so our strategy is to partner with public cloud providers many of them eucalyptus has a great story you know where obviously you go to reinvent or a big part of that you know I think there will be you'll see more to come on the public cloud partnership partnership face but will be at reinvent no to the cube watch a movie at dr. Khan as well coming up very quickly I think next week or the week after thank you okay let me avenge coming up guys thanks so much appreciate it thanks for spending the time yeah thank you i'll be Patrick Michael Loomis here on the cube this is a cube we'll be right back after this short break