>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Everyone welcome back to our CUBE virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online, also a virtual event. I'm John Fourier, host of theCUBE. We're here in our studios in Palo Alto with our quarantine crew, for the past two and a half months, continuing to keep theCUBE rolling, keeping the lights on, talking to everyone that's out there, also covering the top events. AWS Summit, theCUBE can't be there, the event's not happening. We're happening virtually. Got a great guest here, Herain Oberoi, Director of product marketing, database analytics blockchain, he understands data, understands infrastructure. Great to see you again, thanks for coming on. Virtual CUBE! >> Thanks for having us, and this is a cool way to do it. >> Yeah, you know, now there's no excuse when I hit you up on LinkedIn, we're going to do a video. Lot more to do. Anyway, all seriousness. It's a tough time. At-scale problems are here, we're seeing more and more things going on at the Summit here, Kendra general availability, general availability of the ultra warm for Amazon elastic search on a non-augmented AI, a lot of the GAs are coming from reinvents, so a lot of the cadence of AWS, are happening now. You're involved in the elastic search, the ultra warm. This kind of gets to the role of data, warm data, cold data, hot data. This is a big part of the machine learning. Can you give it set up for why this is getting so popular, what's the big deal here? >> Absolutely, yeah. So I'll start off by just setting some context on elastic search itself, and why it's gotten so popular more recently. So, you know, we talk about data, and having to grow exponentially over a long period of time, and it's because, you know, so many people are now building apps in the cloud using Microsoft's architectures and the amount of log data that's being generated by these applications is being used to monitor and assess the operational performance of these systems, and so a lot of customers are moving to elastic search service, because it allows customers to collect and analyze and visualize all of this unstructured and semi-structured log data, this machine-generated log data, in order to look at how the applications are doing. And so, elastic search service is sort of the fully-managed cloud version of the plastic search, that allows customers to run elastic search in a fully-managed way, which means I'm not spending time doing configuration and setup, or, you know, figuring out scalability for my clusters, I can focus more on actually analyzing the data itself. So that's kind of just a little bit of what elastic search is, and so what's been going on, is as customers have been using elastic search, the amount of data that they want to be able to analyze is increasing, and so one of the one of the challenges is that elastic search, the file format itself is really optimized for search so it makes it really quick and interactive. But it's not optimized for storage, and so it's somewhat inefficient for storage and so what customers end up doing, is they want store months of operational data, it's actually hundreds of terabytes, and so what happens is it becomes expensive, and customers either start to store that in archives, or they don't store it at all. And so, if you store in our archives now, you've got DevOps engineers and no security experts that have to spend days to restore that data from the archive like an ordnance, to sort of search and analyze that data. And so what ultra warm does, is it's a new high-performance, low-cost, warm storage, or elastic search service. And this allows customers to store up to three petabytes of data, at about a tenth of the cost of existing options. And so, it gives customers the ability to now store months of data for interactive analysis than they could before. >> That's a great description, thanks for sharing that. I think one of the things that I've been seeing is a trend kind of old guard mentality was "hey here's some storage, "you're going to pay for it "oh let's do some tearing, and pay for that," and then that's cool, but then as you get more and more data, when you said the log file's an unstructured data, you need to use that not only to store it, but you use it in the applications. the data is actually part of the user experience, right, so, I think that's where I see it now. What you're saying is that in the old model, or even the cloud model was getting costly, because they were storing the data, cause they needed low latency. So, is warm implying lower latency, faster access to data, as well? So I get the pricing thing, so it's the lower cost, we'll get to that in a second, but is it a speed issue around access to data? >> Yeah, so ultra warm, so that gives you the best of both. So it's like I said, you know, it's optimized for search, so you can get that fast interactive query and visualization of the data, but it's not optimized for storage. so with ultra warm, you now have a warm storage sphere that's sort of optimized for both, you can actually still get that interactive query and visualization capability that you would expect from elastic search, but you can do it at lower cost, in a much larger amount of data. >> What are you talking about in terms of order magnitude here? Give us a taste for the warm cost structure, versus the alternative. >> Yeah, so it's roughly about 80% lower than warm tier storage from other in a managed elastic search services and you'll get about 50% faster query execution. And so, that's enough for customers to be able to get that interactivity they want from that elastic search experience that they're looking for. >> That's pretty significant numbers there, that just comes from the Amazon architecture, Nitro. What's the secret sauce on all this? >> So ultra warm, effectively it's a distributed cache and it's a distributed cache for more frequently accessed data. So what it does is, it uses these advanced placement techniques to determine specifically which blocks of data are going to be accessed less frequently, and it moves those outside of the cache into S3, that's low cost storage, and then for the more frequently accessed blocks, it'll keep that in the cache, you can get that interactivity, so it's effectively doing really really smart caching, on really large volumes of data, directly inside an elastic search service itself. >> And the value for me as the customer, is what, I've got acts better integration, for data intelligence into the app is it a machine-learning? I mean, it's a multitude problem. >> You can now do operational analytics and log analytics on a longer period of time than you would at a much, much lower cost and so if I'm a firm that's doing analysis of my security logs, and I'm only able to do it cost-effectively, by looking at my security logs for the past week, I can now cost-effectively do that same analysis by looking at the security logs for the past month, and that might actually give me the ability to identify new trends and new patterns, that I wouldn't have seen. >> So more usable actual data, for the same price it was before, just in a scale, so more scale for data, making it usable with the application. >> Yeah, more scale, at lower cost. >> More scale. (laughing) It sounds like the Amazon formula. All right, so what's the most important thing to take away from this? Cost structure, scale, anything else that we should know about around ultra warm for elastic search? >> Yeah, I mean the biggest thing it's how your analysis changes, you can now go from storing just kind of a few days, maybe weeks, worth of operational data, to months of operational data, at really low cost. And so, without the warm now, you can now use elastic search, so this, for a broader set of use cases as well. >> Talk about the impact in Europe, I'm going to put it put you on the spot here, for a second, around this new reality right, we're in an at-scale crisis. You guys in Amazon are under a lot of pressure to deliver, I talked with the folks from the EC2 group, Matt Garmin came on as well, David Brown, you guys deliver in massive capacity with compute, I got to imagine, there's going to be a data opportunity to kind of have more data lakes, I saw the Kendra news general availability, augmented AI, so data will be killer here, feature for the future. This has to be more ubiquitous, in terms of capability. What's your vision on this, post-pandemic, and how do companies reset and reinvent, to take advantage of that, so that their outcomes are on the up slope, post-pandemic, when it's still going to be a quasi-work at home, more teams are going to be distributed, it's a virtualization model, and media, and life, I mean, we're going to be virtualized. >> Yeah, I think you know, like everything we do, when you think about roadmap, it all starts and stems from working backwards, from what our customers are looking for. And given the environment now, more than ever, moving to the cloud is helping customers you know, lower cost, be more agile, scale up, scale down, more effectively. And so, it's actually accelerating the need for customers to start to use a lot of data analytics services in the cloud, as well. And as customers continue to look at ways to analyze the applications, and how they're running, and how to scale the applications, they're going to use a lot of our data and analytics services as well. And so, continuing to find ways to give customers better performance, better service and applying at lower cost, will continue to be what we focus on, and we're certainly having those conversations with customers today. >> And what's your advice to app developers out there, and developers who are really going to be in the front lines. The workloads are going to look differently, they're going to have more video, more data, there's going to be more cloud native, more micro-services, as you pointed out. So, how should developers leverage and build great products? What's your best practice? >> I again I think for developers, just like for us, building great product starts with working backwards, from the customer. It's really listening to what are the customer paying points that you're solving, how are you going to solve it in a way that's unique and different, better than how it's been solved today, and then being able to run that in an operationally efficient way, that's going to provide a high quality of service, in terms of performance, in terms of availability, and in terms of cost. All of those things continue to hold true. And, you know, our job is to give developers the tools that they need to help them to do that. >> Well, what else is new with you? How you you doing out there, you got cabin fever yet? I mean you got all the tools with Amazon, everyone kind of seems like they're in okay mood, how are you doing? >> Yeah, no, we're doing good. you know I'm here with my family, I have two kids who are doing some version of remote schooling, so juggling time with the kids and balancing that with commitments at work. But, you know, here at Amazon, we're kind of very focused on continuing to help customers as they go through this challenging time, and so, I think, getting the teams aligned on, you know, what can we do to help, and getting our teams involved in finding new ways to give customers what they need is the ongoing focus. And, you know, we recently released a data leak that's got a lot of information around the whole Covid-19 data sets that are publicly available, and we're trying to see customers use that, in particular around the public health space, to do analysis on that data as well. >> A lot of AWS goodness, you guys are doing a lot of tech for good there, congratulations. Thanks for coming on and sharing the insights, stay safe, everyone's got cabin fever. Certainly if you've got kids, I have four, you know how hard it is. So stay safe and we'll see you soon, and we'll be remote from now. CUBE Virtual here with AWS Summit 2020, online virtual. I'm John Fourier, thanks for watching. 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>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, it's theCUBE's virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online, they're virtual. Then I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're here in our Palo Alto studios for theCUBE virtual. We're remotely doing interviews during this COVID crisis. We have our quarantine crew, we're doing our best now for two and a half months getting those stories out, and today is AWS Summit. It's going to continue online, it never ends. It's virtual, it's asynchronous, but more importantly, let's get to great content. Our next guest Jimmy Chen, CEO of Propel. Great entrepreneur, vision with real impact and this is a story that is super important in my opinion, because it's a tech story and it's a social impact story. And you don't have to do one or the other, you can do both these days. This is going to be great. Jimmy, thanks for spending the time with us today. >> Yeah John, thanks for having me on the show. >> So, I want to get into the broader entrepreneurship and social impact as an entrepreneurial thing, which I think is a total awesome opportunity. But, you guys are using AWS for good, Propel, Take a minute to explain Propel the company, the things you're working and what you're passionate about. >> So Propel, we're a tech company based in Brooklyn that build software to help people navigate safety net programs like the food stamp program. There are about 40 million Americans who get their food stamp benefits on a debit card, called an EBT card, which looks kind of like a debit card or a credit card you get from a bank. But, when we spent time talking to people who use these cards to buy groceries, we actually found that it has kind of a weird quirk, which is that everyone who goes grocery shopping with an EBT card has to call the 1-800 number on the back of the card first, because that's how they can check the balance. And if you try to check-out at the grocery store you don't have enough left on your card, you get into this really embarrassing experience of having to decide, do you want three apples or two, and trying to figure out how to get your balance to be appropriate for the amount of food they're trying to buy. And so, we actually found that this pain point of needing to call the 1-800 number to go check your balance on your EBT card is a really common one that's felt by all 40 million of these Americans who use the food stamp program to put food on the table. So, what be built at Propel is really simple, it's a mobile banking app for the EBT card, the same way that you have a mobile banking app or your banking product, that we've created a digital free app that allows someone who gets their food stamp benefit on an EBT card to check their balance, to see their transaction history and more broadly actually to improve their overall financial help. >> And mends also the quality of life, knowing confidence whether whatever they're going through, that's something they're going to feel about as well. Talk about the tech piece of it. Obviously, this is a good example of something that I've been really riffing on for many years now, and just trying to get people's attention to is that cloud computing changes the game on social impact, because the time to get to the value, which is well talked about in entrepreneurial circles, later got funded, I got product market fit, applies to anything. And this is really spawning a new generation of entrepreneurship. This is a real thing and Amazon does that. What's your experience with AWS in this area? >> Well, our experience over the last month and a half in the middle of the COVID crisis I think has really driven home the value of AWS for our business, which is that, you know, at the start of COVID we had about 2 million people who used the Fresh EBT app on a monthly basis to manage their existing SNAP benefits. Unfortunately, as the economy has worsen and people's usage of safety net services as has increased, so has our userbase. And AWS has been really key to us, being able to scale our services, to be able to help an extra million people start using the Fresh EBT app essentially over the last few weeks. And so, you know, to your point about infrastructure and scale and technology, for us it's really been about, what are the best practices in the consumer tech worlds? And how do we apply those to help people that are lower-income and generally deal with experiences that are less good. >> You know, I've talked about though is something that I've been really talking a lot about, and maybe I'm a little bit older, but the younger entrepreneurs, they love to be agile and everything else. But what you're doing and what you've done is really have agility, but when you have these hard times everyone uses the word pivot. Which I hate that word pivot, it means to me like, it didn't work out, I'm going to pivot to something else. But to me, I think what's available when you're using the cloud, like what new position you're in, you built an app for a use case, you had product market fit. This COVID crisis becomes a tailwind for you, because actually your app helps people that are in need, but it also might give you an opportunity to do other things really fast, which means jump on an opportunity, not necessarily pivot. I mean is that tacking, pivot? It's kind of semantics, but it's a cultural mindset. And I want to get your thoughts Jimmy on how you see your business changing where you can actually take what you've built on the trajectory in the climbs of scale, the steep learnings. And then also take new territory down, whether it's a new service, helping people in need, 'cause that's the mission. Now you have flexibility. >> Jimmy: That's right. >> Talk about how you think about that, and what are some of your opportunities that you see. >> Jimmy: Well, the reality is that financial life for people who are low-income and using safety net services changes rapid. And there's no better example of this over the last, you know, few decades than the COVID crisis. Over the past few months, people who are using food stamp benefits have had really an unprecedented challenge over the last few months. It's been tough for everyone, but our survey data shows that for people who were getting food stamp benefits and working in early March, 86% of them have now lost some source of income, or have had their hours cut. And so I think one of the things we're starting to hear from our users is just the unprecedented type of need that they're facing and that they're turning to apps like the Fresh EBT app, to help them to navigate this particular crisis. To answer questions like, "What are the nutrition programs "through the government that are available to me? "How do I get a stimulus check? "What about the unemployment program? "And just, what are the full set of safety net resources "that are available to help someone like me "to get back on my feet and to make it through "this unprecedented financial hardship?" So, to your point about pivoting, you know, it's not necessarily, I don't think of it as pivoting, I think of it as like as responding to the real changes in user need. >> Yeah, ceasing opportunity on your position of your value proposition. Jimmy talk about the company, that your company launched a new service, Project 100. What is that about? Can you take a minute to explain that? >> Project 100 is a partnership between Propel, Stand for Children and the GiveDirectly team, which is the other two are nonprofits that are focused on different aspects of serving people that are in financial need. And it is a partnership that we've created to raise a $100 million to be able to make cash transfers to a 100,000 people who use the Fresh EBT app and are in financial need. So, Propel's role in this is that we, because our app helps people that are getting their food stamp benefits, we can certify that this is a person who is in financial need and uses, essentially, the status on the food stamp program as a proxy for, this is a family who really needs help to get through this crisis. We've been fortunate to have a lot of donors who are very generous and interested in finding ways to support, you know, people that are going through these types of financial hardships. And so, we've been fortunate to raise already about $70 million through this program. But, I think we still have a ways to go to reach this $100 million goal, where we really think that, that was a material impact on helping low-income Americans weather this financial shock. >> Well, I really appreciate what you're doing and thanks for what you're doing, it's great, and I think it's a great opportunity. Got great product market fit and you got a lot of horizontal opportunities to go after as you're more successful. I also want to get your thoughts real quick on tech entrepreneurship. It's been very glamorous over the past couple decades, to be an entrepreneur, but ultimately it's about creating value. I think, you're seeing with the cloud a lot of opportunities that aren't the traditional, you know, go public, built, raise a bunch of money, really either for profit or nonprofit, really in highly social impact situations. This is a growing field and you're doing it. Can you share what you're seeing and what advice you could give folks who are really thinking about having a mission driven opportunity. >> Jimmy: Well, I think that people solve the problems that they understand, and that traditionally tech entrepreneurs understand the very specific set of challenges, because the demographics of tech entrepreneurs are a smaller set than the overall population in the United States, right? Tech entrepreneurs tend to be male, they tend to have a college education, they tend to live in cities like San Francisco or New York City, and they tend to have a lot of money. But the reality is, that's not the demographic of people who use technology in the United States and so if people solve the problems that they understand, whose going to solve the problems that people on food stamps understand, if there are not a lot of people who are on food stamps that are starting their own software companies? And so I think the power of tools like Amazon Web Services and the cloud that allow people to be able to create new technology in a record amount of time and scale that, is the ability to democratize who gets to build the technology that people use, right? It means, both being able to help people who traditionally would not have the resources to start a new type of organization, to start a new one, but it also means being able to help companies like mine identify these types of challenges, to learn about the needs that people who are low-income have and be able to scale a product. >> Phenomenal mission Propel. Jimmy Chen, CEO of Propel. If you're designing a product, or art, or anything, you got to know who you're designing it for. And great point, and people solve problems that they understand. Thank you for what you're doing. Congratulations and continue success. We'll keep in touch. Thanks for coming on the virtual CUBE, thank you. >> Jimmy: Thank you so much for having me John. >> I'm John Furrier here on theCUBE for theCUBE virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online. A virtual conference has gone a way to virtual, so is theCUBE. Until further notice, we're going to do our part in our studio in Palo Alto, the studio in Boston. Checking in with folks and getting the updates. We're all in this together, and I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (bright music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of AWS Summit Online. Virtual Conference Is the Virtual Cube doing the remote? Interviews from our studio in Palo Alto? I'm John Furrier, host of the Cube. We're here with our quarantine crew. We're getting all the interviews out there. Also covering all the greatest in the cloud. We're in the cloud or in the coverage. Our got a great guest here practitioner who's really riding the innovation wave at the same time, taking advantage of the scale of a ws and putting into practice. Chris Foster, who's the CEO of TC Energy. Chris, Thanks for spending the time to come on the Cube. Appreciate it. >>Pleasure, John. Thanks for the opportunity. >>So you've got a great innovation story. That's something that we've been reporting a lot on is how companies can really reinvent, reset, reinvent, grow and put things in place from a Dev Ops cloud scale perspective. You doing it within the energy area. Take a minute to first explain what TC energy is and your role. >>Yeah, for sure, John TC Energy. You know, we're one of the biggest energy companies in North America. So the fastest way to explain it, You know, we like to think we provide the energy that you know in a enables and powers people's lives and about one in four of every molecules that gets delivered in North America. That's us on my role there. I'm very fortunate I >>lead the the >>I s team I have done since January 1st of 2019. Um, and our AWS journey started a little bit before that. I've had the pleasure of sort of jumping on the ah, the exciting part of it. I like to think where we've got a lot of that enabled and we're moving toe a lot of the innovation phases of that implementation. >>I love the innovation story. We love talking about how the new reality that's upon us certainly were in this covert crisis where people are actually seeing the impact at scale problems. You have a job where your product really cannot have disruption, right? At the same time, there is a large scale to it. And so as you guys think about what's going on on the pressure under at the same time, you can't just cut project. You can just cut costs for cutting costs sake. They're actually really needs to be an investment or doubling down in this case, take us through that that process because if you're on the cloud native wave and the AWS way, which you are on, you've been rolling out thinking about Dev ops. You ever thinking about agility? But now, as these new pressures emerge and even more new realities, certainly not a new normal. I hate the term, but it's the people using it. It's a new reality, and that is the right projects need to be funded because of the consequences of not having everything in place. This >>is >>where cloud shines, and this is where innovation and good management kind of comes into play. Can you share your perspective on that? >>Yeah. Be happy to John. You know, safety is our number. One concern always has been, always will be. And so, you know, we we look at everything we do from that lens of doing things safely and reliability as well. Of course, it's not just the safety in the way people would you know, I think about every day. It's also the reliability of that energy people rely on every day. And that has to be almost in our in our thoughts and then everything that we do. Um so I mean, as an example, I would say, you know, some of the, you know, around the periphery of what we did with our AWS implementation. We also took a hard look at our network implementations and how things were working in the background, how we were connected up. And that's one of the reasons that when we transitioned, you know, literally we went from a hey, we should start thinking about working from home sort of on a Wednesday, Thursday, and by Monday, the entire company was working from home, right? And that was the story for a lot of folks. I think on it was seamless. You know, we were not just able todo Obviously the primary focus was safety, reliability, and of course, you know, that was what preoccupied people in the early days we went even beyond that, I would say very quickly we were actually talking to people about, you know, I asked projects that didn't reach the criticality of safety and reliability, but was still important. And we were telling our stakeholders the delivery dates haven't changed. I mean, we were working in the office on Friday. We're working up home on Monday. No big deal. >>So what? The agility piece of that? Because I think that puts an exclamation point around what agility is supposed to be unformed. Seen situation. You implement your business as usual in kind of a weird way. It's not usual, but Cloud allows you to put the speed and scale and reliability together. What was the partnership with Azure? How did that change things or help things? Can you just unpack that a little bit? >>Yeah, by the way, I explain it to my business partners That work within TC energy is Look, it used to take us, you know, several weeks to get you any kind of compute capacity. So when we start talking about innovation and trying new things, the entry cost was high in terms of time and in terms of money, right? Like you'd have to give us a pile of cash. Let us go away. Design servers, you know, get all the right equipment racket and everything else, and that's a huge impediment to trying new things and being truly agile. What AWS has really given us. Yes, we're out of the business of looking after our own servers. And so I'm able to move my people, too. What I would say is more valuable work for the company that really focuses on the outcomes. But what's also very cool for our business partners is I can say that. Look, if you want more compute power than you've ever had before this afternoon, you know, give me, give me an hour and we'll have it for you on the Great part. Two is if on Monday you change your mind and you decide that that idea you had wasn't so great after role and oops, that's fine. I'll just turn it off for you, right? And there's no big deal. Where is in the old days? You phoned me on Monday and said it was a bad idea and say, Well, that's great, But I already bought the server and you, you're living with it for five years. >>That's a great example. You know, I've seen both pieces of the puzzle here. One side, the waterfall provisioning is a lot of risk involved at many levels of processing at scale or if it fails, you got the costs and then the agility side. You've got those example that you just pointed out. But I got to ask you as a manager, you know, some enterprises that are going into this area get stressed out, and things seem to be last minute. How >>do you >>manage that? When does it tip over to be part of the culture where it's like, don't worry about it. It's gonna hurt, because when new things have a full of process, process is great, you know, Don't break anything sweet last minute. So experimentation, as you pointed out, is the key to innovation getting things out there. But managing it is a hard part. What's your experience and what your best practice? >>Yeah, I think if I understand your question right, the journey. A lot of this goes to me towards culture, and, you know, we you can be, I think, coming from a place where perhaps your your your view of risk needs to change to get you into this new space. So obviously, like I said at the outset, in the safety and reliability is number one. We never do anything that would compromise any of those things. The reality and I asked, if I look at it is that you know, 80 90% of what I do doesn't have those types of implications associated with it. And so it becomes, you know, a different conversation about about risk and saying What's the worst thing that could happen? And, you know, you know, if that's not going Teoh intact, any safety and reliability, then let's take a look at it. And so I think the other thing that people are frightened off when it comes to implementing a change like this is obviously the impact on people, right? And I take that part of it very seriously to what I've been really pleased by in our journey is that we've managed to bring people along and give them new skill sets, and we're continuing to do that. We actually introduced what I call next year or the team. Sorry they came up with us, not me. But it's called next TC University, and it's this fabulous, you know, ability for people start signing on and getting new skill sets, you know, retraining themselves. And so we're starting to try and give people that sense of what's in it for them. Because that's the human element, right? So for people that love servers, you know, a You know, it was a big change to say, I'm not gonna get to touch it anymore. I'm not going to get a rack. That server, that's what I'm good at. No, But you're still going to get to do these other skills, right? >>Yeah, that's a great point. Well, if you love service, you love compute. So when you see the compute in action, they got to get excited about that. And I think that's one of the things I think having that on demand compute, almost dial, start dialing it up. And you guys probably agree with that. And your business is having that on one hand. But the team piece, I want to get back to that, cause I think that's the thing you mentioned earlier. Your team can be deployed in new new things. You have a next TC, which is more of a learning aspirational ladder or kind of way to make people feel good about themselves by getting new skills and reapplying it. It's a nice flywheel for the people side of the business. People process technology, as they say, but talk about the impact of the teams working with AWS and Cloud in general. What are some of those things they're working on? How do you shift? How do u flex that with some of the commentary around team the work that they dio and value? >>Yeah, It's a great question, John, and it's what I like to talk about, because what we've been able to do is to draw much more of, ah, clear line for our people between you know what they do and how it impacts the business. And I like to talk to people about the fact that we're blurring the lines now between IOS and the business. I think like it's never been tree done before, right? You know, I love to tell a story about one of my earlier in career folks who was presenting to a very senior group of senior group of VPs, one of whom came to me at the end of the meeting and said, you know which which one of our business units is that young man from And I said he's a nice guy you know? He said, The guy that was talked about line, pack and all those other things And I said, No, he's he's and I asked, right? And he was in disbelief. And that's what I would tell you is the biggest impact of the teams is it's blurring that line now where they're getting much more engaged on the business side, but also the, You know, the business folks are getting much more engaged in the IAS sites. This this kind of meshing now that you know, I asked, People have always striven for I always said, You know, be a partner. Don't be an order taker in my mind. A lot of this makes that possible cause you're getting out of those technical conversations you're having connecting much more with the with the outcomes that you can produce for the business, because it's mostly >>for the action to with this do you get there near the business. They can see it. They can feel the victories and also participate in that upside, and also take some of the learnings doing a lot of steep learning curve that go on for through the experimentation that you mentioned. This is this >>is >>the fun part. But also, it could be rewarding if you look at it that way. So how do you guys deal with the failures and learnings? And you know a lot about failure. But in a sense, if you can try out that you've gotta have that mindset of growth mindset where you're like, Okay, we're to fail, we're not gonna take it. Personal zones, you learn from it. How do you handle >>that? Yeah, it's a great question, John. You mentioned your sort of sick of the words new normal. And I'm I get a little tired of the of the Fail fast for similar reasons. Right to me, it's it's not fail fast as much as fail small and fail. Quick. Well, fail fast. But it's it's making sure you fail on the small things. So we have had failures. What I say to my business partners is look, in the past, I would have failed off the nine months and a couple $1,000,000 of your money. And probably more importantly, you've lost nine months of getting to that solution. Now I'm going to fail in six weeks or less. Andi were going very quickly. Weed out ideas and what I try and get very excited about is, you know, stop worrying about women. Idea is a good idea or a bad idea and spending months of analysis and time trying to figure it out. Let's do things on. You'll find it's cheaper to do. Some of these ideas figure out quickly going to cost way too much money. So we had one that was targeting some improvements in our field experience, and we underestimated the complexity of the systems it was gonna tie back into and all the legacy stuff that was in there wasn't a Greenfield. Nice clean thing to do. We did. We found out after a couple months, this isn't gonna work, right? Um, well, better after two months than two years and several $1,000,000. And that's how we kind of position that internally, >>you know, the whole fail fast thing. You know, you got me going on that couple terms. I always first talk a lot of jargon, so it's always kind of calm. The pot black but fail fast is no one wants to fail, right? So this whole glamorization of failure, any entrepreneur, any leader, no one rebels and failure failure is avoided. No one loves to say no fails, but it's more engineering. It's more getting the iteration. That's that's That's the real issue Here is not so much I look at me. I failed, you know that's got to be put to the side. But what you're getting at is really engineer architect ing really working the problem. And you need to make those iterations which essentially failure. But this whole idea of failing is just And that Data Lake don't get me going. >>It was true that example I gave you. We've actually just launched a very successful pilot from the learnings of that so called failure. Not really. I was just >>talking to another entrepreneur. I'm like, you know, when you're in the business and you're ahead of the curve, the whole world realizes that all of the pandemic these are some things. There are some companies that have those deep learnings, and they have an advantage because those endeavors give them that that courage to try something. But when it's now something obvious to do, those learnings Aaron advantage not a disadvantage. So to your point, that's awesome stuff. Um, tell about the, um, the machine learning side. And I'd love to get your take on. Are you tapping into some of the Amazon machine learning outside the compute stuff? I can see that being killer for you guys. What are some of the higher level services that come out of having some of these new things available? Like sage maker? There's a machine learning a ton of stuff coming out of the the wood work, if you will, From an Amazon standpoint, How are you looking at that? >>Yeah, there's some fabulous tools in there that we're definitely you know, we're fairly early in the in the journey, I would say, but we're already starting to see some great opportunities and great possibilities. So, you know, for example, assess. People probably realize we're quite rightly ah, heavily regulated. And we, you know, quite correctly have to produce a lot of information for regulators to establish that we're doing all of the right things. You know, sometimes when you've grown by acquiring different companies, you know, putting your hands on the right information at the right time could be challenging on dso we're using things like machine learning to help us find documentation quicker and faster to make sure that we can pull out, you know, certificates or regulation. You know, testing results, things like that much faster than we could in the past. Right? Um so that's one use that we already see for that that has the potential to speed up our interactions of regulators, help us refocus some costs internally on, you know, safe initiatives and that type of thing. So that's one example. We're also using machine learning to tell us more about how you can continue to operate the pipe, you know, more safe, you know, always more safely, more reliably, all the time. And, you know, the I truly believe, you know, all roads lead back to the data and how you get at that data, right. And so machine learning is most people in this audience who understand is is really another way of getting that data to tell you everything that's hidden within it. >>Once you get your team set up with the mindset, the culture having that compute, working on new things, you take advantage machine learning. Then you've got things like Kendra just announced general availability. These become abstractions of services, so that kind of leads me to. My final question for you is we're living in a time where Post Pandemic is gonna be exposed, that there's a lot of gaps. People realize that, you know, the tide has pulled out and you can see all the rocks that exposed opportunities out there, and there's also challenges. So we expecting a lot of projects will be cut me personnel as But there's a lot of projects being funded. So the funding versus cutting is going to be, I think, going all level out. But as people get back in and want to go the cloud, how should they be thinking about this? Actually, they be coming into the market because at your level, the CSO levels. It's more visibility than ever on resetting, reinventing and growing right, getting back on track or doubling down on a win. So what's your advice to people out there? The practitioners of Google Amazon summit and other folks that really need to take the step into the cloud native scale world. What's your advice? >>Well, yeah, it's definitely a challenging world, John, for a lot of people, and we're not immune to that. You know, we are seeing in my local community for sure lots of lots of people pulling back on projects and, um, expenditures. Right now, my advice to any of the folks out there is when I talk to my business partners, I try and talk about funding outcomes and not funding projects. Right? And so, you know, rather than when you might my biggest concern. Whenever we talk about budgets, everyone has to go for budget conversations that I don't care what industry you're in or what your position is. I want to make sure that when we decide where we set the budget, if we're gonna set it here, do we know what's above the line and below the line in business terms, right. So it's very easy to cut technology and not really see a business impact on DSO. What I like to talk about with our business partners internally is to talk about everything in terms of the outcomes you're trying to fund. And so if for me it's a enhancement infield productivity, you know, reducing the windshield time of our people in the field because that's a primary safety issue. That's the outcome I'm going for and their bi projects behind it and that that's the biggest advice I can give people when it's now. There's so much scrutiny on, you know, is that a dollar that's worth spending? If you talk about technology in most you know, boardrooms or leadership tables around North America, you're gonna lose people. Very first, you gotta focus it back to what the business is trying to do with it and create teams that can really zero in together. You know, blur the lines. Like I said previously, between IOS and the business people, where everyone's got the outcome that's pasted up on the wall, that's what we're going to deliver. We're gonna, you know, come to ah, conclusion quickly on whether we can do it. >>Yeah, it's not a shiny new toy. It's how the engine of innovation hits the business object. That's great stuff. Final final question. What are you excited about these days? Obviously, we're in a tough time. Um, there are new realities we're gonna come out of this is going to be a hybrid world in this virtual interactions. We're having the cube virtual Amazon summit. Virtual life isn't now part of everybody's immersion. You've got the edge of the network exploding. You've got all the you know it's chaotic. But if you squint through that there's opportunities. Start up a big business. What are you excited about? >>I agree with you, John. I think you have to be glass half full. And I don't mean to be just the sort of overly optimistic, but I think you have to look at this as an opportunity for a bit of a rebirth of the shift, right? And, you know, I don't wanna downplay the fact that change is hard for people. I don't downplay the fact that people are going through some very tough things right now. So, you know, not not trying to put sort of, but too much of sweetener on things. But I think if you're looking for a positive angle, you look at it the rebirth of the opportunities that will come out of that right. I think there's incredible, you know, technology opportunities coming out of it. I talked to my people all the time about focus on what you can control on what you can control. This staying relevant right. We know we're entering a digital world. We know that things are gonna look differently when we come back. We may not know what they are yet, but companies are gonna continue to need great technology. You know, our partnership with AWS has given us access to great technology. Focus on that. Because that's what you can control on. I think you know, you'll see that some opportunities will come out of this. We probably didn't expect >>and also that it's an inflection point as well. 2000 and eight. When we had the financial crisis there, there were clear coming. They're on the up trajectory and stayed up here. I think we're going to see something similar. So I think there's gonna be a right side of history coming out of this. And it's going to be one of those things where you can tell by who's growing and who's the trajectories of their business outcomes. Um, well, tried a lot of that. >>Yeah, I would agree. A lot of there's a there's always someone that's that you don't realize till later was was quietly making making hay right? Well, this was happening, and I would encourage people to think about that. >>You don't want to be that company. As expression goes, Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights on the Cube virtual as part of our AWS summit coverage. This is the Cube virtual. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Pleasure. Thanks for having me. >>I'm John Furrier here in the Palo Alto studios covering AWS Summit online. Virtual. Is the Cube virtual doing our part here with our quarantine crew getting all the data sharing that with you. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.