>> We're back at the Seaport in Boston. Dave Vellante and Paul Gill. You're watching The Cubes coverage of Red Hat Summit, 2022. A little different this year, a smaller venue. Maybe a thousand people. Love the keynotes, compressed. Big virtual audience. So we're happy to be coming to you live, face to face. It's been a while since we've had these, for a lot of folks, this is their first in person event. You know, it's kind of weird getting used to that, but I think in the next few months, it's going to become the new, sort of quasi abnormal. Francis Chow is here. He's the Vice President and GM of In-Vehicle OS and Edge at Red Hat. Francis, welcome. That's the most interesting title we've had all week. So thanks for coming here. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Paul, for having me here. >> So The Edge, I mean The Edge is, we heard about the International Space Station. We heard about ski boots, of course In-Vehicle. What's the Edge to you? >> Well, to me Edge actually could mean many different things, right? The way we look at Edge is, there is the traditional enterprise Edge, where this is the second tier, third tier data centers that this extension from your core, the network and your centralized data center, right to remote locations. And then there are like Telco Edge, right? where we know about the 5G network, right Where you deploy bay stations and which would have a different size of requirements right. Of traditional enterprise edge networks. And then there are Operational Edge where we see the line of business operating on those locations, right? Things like manufacturing for oil rigs, retail store, right? So very wide variety of Edge that are doing OT type of technology, and then last but not least there is the customer on or kind of device edge where we now putting things into things like cars, as you said, like ski booth, and have that interaction with the end consumers. >> Is this why? I mean, there's a lot of excitement at Red. I could tell among the Red hat people about this GM deal here is this why that's so exciting to them? This really encompasses sort of all of those variants of the edge in automotive, in automobile experience. Doesn't it? >> I think why this is exciting to the industry and also to us is that if you look at traditionally how automotive has designed, right the way the architect vehicle today has many subsystems, they are all purpose viewed, very tight cut, coupled with hardware and software. And it's very difficult to reuse, right? So their cause of development is high. The time to develop is long and adding to that there is a lengthy safety certification process which also kind of make it hard. Because every time you make a change in the system you have to re-certify it again. >> Right. >> And typically it takes about six to 12 months to do so. Every time you make a change. So very lengthy passes, which is important because we want to ensure occupants are safe in a vehicle. Now what we bring to the table, which I think is super exciting is we bring this platform approach. Now you can use a consistent platform that is open and you can actually now run multiple doming applications on the same platform which means automakers can reuse components across model years and brands. That will lower the development cost. Now I think one of the key things that we bring to the table is that we introduce a new safety certification approach called Continuous Safety Certification. We actually announced that in our summit last year with the intent, "Hey, we're going to deliver this functional certified Linux platform" Which is the first four Linux. And the way we do it is we work with our partner Excedr to try to define that approach. And at the high level the idea really is to automate that certification process just like how we automate software development. Right, we are adding that monitoring capabilities with functional safety related artifacts in our CI three pipeline. And we are able to aim to cut back that kind of certification time to a fraction of what is needed today. So what we can do, I think with this collaboration with GM, is help them get faster time to market, and then lower development costs. Now, adding to that, if you think about a modern Linux platform, you can update it over the air, right? This is the capability that we are working with GM as well. Now what customers can expect now, right for future vehicle is there will be updates on apps and services, just like your cell phone, right. Which makes your car more capable over time and more relevant for the long term. >> So there's some assumptions you're making at the edge. First of all, you described a spectrum retail store which you know, to me, okay, it's Edge, but you can take an X-86 box or a hyper converged infrastructure throw it in there. And there's some opportunities to do some stuff in real time, but it's kind of an extension natural extension of IT. Whereas in vehicle you got to make some assumptions spotty connectivity to do software download and you can't do truck rolls at the far edge, right? None of that is okay, and so there's some assumptions there and as you say, your role is to compress the time to market, but also deliver a better consumer >> Absolutely. >> Experience, so what can we expect? You started to talk about the future of in vehicle, you know, or EVs, if you will, what should we expect as consumers? You, you're saying over the year software we're seeing that with some of the EV makers, for sure. But what's the future look like? >> I think what consumers can expect is really over a period of time, right? A similar experience, like what you have with your mobile mobile device, right? If you look back 15, 20 years, right? You buy a phone, right? That's the feature that you have with your phone, right? No update, it is what it is right, for the lifetime of the product which is pretty much what you have now, if you buy a vehicle, right. You have those features capabilities and you allow it for the lifetime of the vehicle. >> Sometimes you have to drive in for a maintenance, a service to get a software update. >> We can talk about that too right. But as we make the systems, update-able right you can now expect more frequent and seamless update of both the operating system and the application services that sit on top of that. Right, so I think right in the future consumers can expect more capable vehicles after you purchase it because new developmental software can now be done with an update over the air. >> I assume this relationship with GM is not exclusive. Are you talking with other automakers as well? >> We are talking to auto makers, other auto makers. What we working with GM is really a product that could work for the industry, right? This is actually what we both believe in is the right thing to do right? As we are able to standardize how we approach the infrastructure. I think this is a good thing for the whole industry to help accelerate innovation for the entire industry. >> Well which is sort of natural next question. Are we heading toward an open automotive platform? Like we have an open banking platform in that industry. Do you see the possibility that there could be a single platform that all or most of the auto makers will work on? >> I wouldn't use the word single, but I definitely would use the word open. Right? Our goal is to build this open platform, right. Because we believe in open source, right. We believe in community, right. If we make it open, we have more contributors to come in and help to make the system better in a way faster. And actually like you said, right. Improve the quality, right, better. Right, so that the chance of recall is now lower with, with this approach. >> You're using validated patterns as part of this initiative. Is that right? And what is a validated pattern? How is it different from a reference architecture? Is it just kind of a new name for reference architecture? or what value does it bring to the relation? >> For automotive right, we don't have a validated pattern yet but they can broadly kind of speak about what that is. >> Yeah. >> And how we see that evolve over time. So validated pattern basically is a combination of Red Hat products, multiple Red Hat products and partner products. And we usually build it for specific use case. And then we put those components together run rigorous tests to validate it that's it going to work, so that it becomes more repeatable and deployable for those particular edge use cases. Now we do work with our partners to make it happen, right. Because in the end, right we want to make a solution that is about 80% of the way and allow our partners to kind of add more value and their secret sauce on top and deploy it. Right, and I'll give you kind of one example, right You just have the interview with the Veterans Affairs team, right. One of our patents, right? The Medical Diagnosis Pattern, right. Actually we work with them in the early development stage of that. Right, what it does is to help make assessments on pneumonia with chest X rates, right. So it's a fully automated data pipeline. We get the chest x-ray from an object store use AIML to diagnose whether there's new pneumonia. And then I'll put that in a dashboard automated with the validated pattern. >> So you're not using them today, but can we expect that in the future? It sounds like >> Yes absolutely it's in the works, yes. >> It would be a perfect vertical. >> How do you believe your work with GM? I mean, has implications across Red hat? It seems like there are things you're going to be doing with GM that could affect other parts of your own product portfolio. >> Oh, absolutely. I think this actually is, it's a pivotal moment for Red Hat and the automotive industry. And I think broadly speaking for any safety conscious industry, right. As we create this Proof-point right that we can build a Linux system that is optimized for footprint performance, realtime capabilities, and be able to certify it for safety. Right I think all the adjacent industry, right. You think about transportation, healthcare, right. Industry that have tight safety requirements. It's just opened up the aperture for us to adjust those markets in the future. >> So we talked about a lot about the consumerization of IT over the last decade. Many of us feel as though that what's going on at the Edge, the innovations that are going on at the Edge realtime AI inferencing, you know, streaming data ARM, the innovations that ARM and others are performing certainly in video until we heard today, this notion of, you know, no touch, zero touch provisioning that a lot of these innovations are actually going to find their way into the enterprise. Kind of a follow on fault of what you were just talking about. And there's probably some future disruptions coming. You can almost guarantee that, I mean, 15 years or so we get that kind of disruption. How are you thinking about that? >> Well, I think you company, right. Some of the Edge innovation, right. You're going to kind of bring back to enterprise over time. Right but the one thing that you talk about zero touch provisioning right. Is critical right? You think about edge deployments. You're going to have to deal with a very diverse set of environments on how deployments are happen. Right think about like tail code based stations, right. You have somewhere between 75,000 to 100,000 base stations in the US for each provider right. How do you deploy it? Right, if you let's say you push one update or you want the provision system. So what we bring to the table in the latest open shift release is that, hey we make provisioning zero touch right, meaning you can actually do that without any menu intervention. >> Yeah, so I think the Edge is going to raise the bar for the enterprise, I guess is my premise there. >> Absolutely. >> So Francis, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. It's great to see you and congratulations on the collaboration. It's a exciting area for you guys. >> Thank you again, Dave and Paul. >> Our pleasure, all right keep it right there. After this quick break, we'll be back. Paul Gill and Dave Vellante you're watching The Cubes coverage Red Hat Summit 2022 live from the Boston Seaport. Be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From around the globe. It's theCUBE, with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, the virtual edition. I'm Lisa Martin. I have a couple of guests joining me next to talk about AWS and Druva. From Druva, Chris White is here, the chief revenue officer. Hey Chris, nice to have you on the program. >> Excellent, thanks Lisa. Excited to be here. >> And from AWS Sabina Joseph joins us. She is the general manager of the Americas technology partners. Sabina, welcome. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> So looking forward to talking to you guys unfortunately, we can't be together in a very loud space in Las Vegas, so this will have to do but I'm excited to be able to talk to you guys today. So Chris, we're going to start with you, Druva and AWS have a longstanding partnership. Talk to us about that and some of the evolution that's going on there. >> Absolutely, yeah. we certainly have, we had a great long-term partnership. I'm excited to talk to everybody about it today and be here with Sabina and you Lisa as well. So, we actually re architect our entire environment on AWS, 100% on AWS back in 2013. That enables us to not only innovate back in 2013, but continue to innovate today and in the future, right. It gives us flexibility on a 100% platform to bring that to our customers, to our partners, and to the market out there, right? In doing so, we're delivering on data protection, disaster recovery, e-discovery, and ransomware protection, right? All of that's being leveraged on the AWS platform as I said, and that allows uniqueness from a standpoint of resiliency, protection, flexibility, and really future-proofing the environment, not only today, but in the future. And over this time AWS has been an outstanding partner for Druva. >> Excellent Chris, thank you. Sabina, you lead the America's technology partners as we mentioned, Druva is an AWS advanced technology partner. Talk to us from through AWS lens on the Druva AWS partnership and from your perspective as well. >> Sure, Lisa. So I've had the privilege of working with Druva since 2014 and it has been an amazing journey over the last six and a half years. You know, overall, when we work with partners on technical solutions, we have to talk in a better architect, their solution for AWS, but also take their feedback on our features and capabilities that our mutual customers want to see. So for example, Druva has actually provided feedback to AWS on performance, usability, enhancements, security, posture and suggestions on additional features and functionality that we could have on AWS snowball edge, AWS dynamoDB and other services in fact. And in the same way, we provide feedback to Druva, we provide recommendations and it really is a unique process of exposing our partners to AWS best practices. When customers use Druva, they are benefiting from the AWS recommended best practices for data durability, security and compliance. And our engineering teams work very closely together. We collaborate, we have regular meetings, and that really sets the foundation for a very strong solution for our mutual customers. >> So it sounds very symbiotic. And as you talked about that engineering collaboration and the collaboration across all levels. So now let's talk about some of the things that you're helping customers to do as we are all navigating a very different environment this year. Chris, talk to us about how Druva is helping customers navigate some of those big challenges you talked about ransomware for example, this massive pivot to remote workforce. Chris (mumbles) got going on there. >> Yeah, absolutely. So the, one of the things that we've seen consistently, right, it's been customers are looking for simplicity. Customers are looking for cost-effective solutions, and then you couple that with the ability to do that all on a single platform, that's what the combination of Druva and AWS does together, right? And as you mentioned, Lisa, you've got work from home. That's increased right with the unfortunate events going across the globe over the last almost 12 months now, nine months now. Increased ransomware that threats, right? The bad actors tend to take advantage of these situations unfortunately, and you've got to be working with partners like AWS like Druva, coming together, to build that barrier against the bad actors out there. So, right. We've got double layer of protection based on the partnership with AWS. And then if you look at the rising concerns around governance, right? The complexity of government, if you look at Japan adding some increased complexity to governance, you look at what's going on across, but across the globe across the pond with GDPR, number of different areas around compliance and governance that allows us to better report upon that. We built the right solution to support the migration of these customers. And everything I just talked about is just accelerated the need for folks to migrate to the cloud, migrate to AWS, migrate to leveraging, through the solutions. And there's no better time to partner with Druva and AWS, just because of that. >> Something we're all talking about. And every key segment we're doing, this acceleration of digital transformation and customers really having to make quick decisions and pivot their businesses over and over again to get from survival to thriving mode. Sabina talk to us about how Druva and AWS align on key customer use cases especially in these turbulent times. >> Yeah, so, for us as you said Lisa, right. When we start working with partners, we really focus on making sure that we are aligned on those customer use cases. And from the very first discussions, we want to ensure that feedback mechanisms are in place to help us understand and improve the services and the solutions. Chris has, he mentioned migrations, right? And we have customers who are migrating their applications to AWS and really want to move the data into the cloud. And you know what? This is not a simple problem because there's large amounts of data. And the customer has limited bandwidth Druva of course as they have always been, is an early adopter of AWS snowball edge and has worked closely with us to provide a solution where customers can just order a snowball edge directly from AWS. It gets shipped to them, they turn it on, they connect it to the network, and just start backing up their data to the snowball edge. And then once they are done, they can just pack it up, ship it back. And then all of this data gets loaded into the Druva solution on AWS. And then you also, those customers who are running applications locally on AWS Outposts, Druva was once again, an early adopter. In fact, last reinvent, they actually tested out AWS Outposts and they were one of the first launch partners. Once again, further expanding the data protection options they provide to our mutual customers. >> Well, as that landscape changes so dramatically it's imperative that customers have data center workloads, AWS workloads, cloud workloads, endpoints, protected especially as people scattered, right, in the last few months. And also, as we talked about the ransomware rise, Chris, I saw on Druva's website, one ransomware attack every 11 seconds. And so, now you've got to be able to help customers recover and have that resiliency, right. Cause it's not about, are we going to get hit? It's a matter of when, how does Druva help facilitate that resiliency? >> Yeah, now that's a great point Lisa. and as you look at our joint customer base, we've got thousands of joint customers together and we continue to see positive business impact because of that. And it's to your point, it's not if it's when you get hit and it's ultimately you've got to be prepared to recover in order to do that. And based on the security levels that we jointly have, based on our architecture and also the benefits of the architecture within AWS, we've got a double layer of defense up there that most companies just can't offer today. So, if we look at that from an example standpoint, right, transitioning offer specific use case of ransomware but really look at a cast media companies, right? One of the largest media companies out there across the globe, 400 radio stations, 800 TV stations, over a hundred thousand podcasts, over 4,000 or 5,000 streams happening on an annual basis, very active and candidly very public, which freaks the target. They really came to us for three key things, right? And they looked for reduced complexity, really reducing their workload internally from a backup and recovery standpoint, really to simplify that backup environment. And they started with Druva, really focused on the end points. How do we protect and manage the end points from a data protection standpoint, ultimately, the cost savings that they saw, the efficiency they saw, they ended up moving on and doing key workloads, right? So data protection, data center workloads that they were backing up and protecting. This all came from a great partnership and relationship from AWS as well. And as we continued to simplify that environment, it allowed them to expand their partnership with AWS. So not only was it a win for the customer, we helped solve those business problems for them. Ultimately, they got a (mumbles) benefit from both Druva and AWS and that partnership. So, we continue to see that partnership accelerate and evolve to go really look at the entire platform and where we can help them, in addition to AWS services that they're offering. >> And that was... It sounds like them going to cloud data production, was that an acceleration of their cloud strategy that they then had to accelerate even further during the last nine months, Chris? >> Yeah, well, the good news for cast is that at least from a backup and recovery standpoint, they've been ahead of the curve, right? They were one of those customers that was proactive, in driving on their cloud journey, and proactive and driving beyond the work from home. It did change the dynamics on how they work and how they act from a work from home standpoint, but they were already set up. So then they didn't really skip a beat as they continue to drive that. But overall, to your point, Lisa, we've seen an increase and acceleration and companies really moving towards the cloud, right. Which is why that migration strategy, joint migration strategy, that Sabina talked about is so important because it really has accelerated. And in some companies, this has become the safety net for them, in some ways their DR Strategy, to shift to the cloud, that maybe they weren't looking to do until maybe 2022 or 2023, it's all been accelerated. >> Everything's, but we have like whiplash on the acceleration going on. >> Sabina, talk to us about some of those joint successes through AWS's lens, a couple of customers, you're going to talk about the University of Manchester, and the Queensland Brain Institute, dig into those for us. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I thank Chris sharing those stories there. So the two that kind of come into my mind is a University of Manchester. They have nearly 7,000 academic staff and researchers and they're, part of their digital transformation strategy was adopting VMware cloud on AWS. And the University actually chose Druva, to back up 160 plus virtual machine images, because Druva provided a simple and secure cloud-based backup solution. And in fact, saved them 50% of their data protection costs. Another one is Queensland Brain Institute, which has over 400 researchers who really worked on brain diseases and really finding therapeutic solutions for these brain diseases. As you can imagine, this research generates terabytes critical data that they not only needed protected, but they also wanted to collaborate and get access to this data continuously. They chose Druva and now using Druva solution, they can back up over 1200 plus research papers, residing on their devices, providing global and also reliable access 24 by seven. And I do want to mention, Lisa, right? The pandemic has changed all of humanity as we know it, right? Until we can all find a solution to this. And we've also together had to work to adjust what can we do to work effectively together? We've actually together with Druva shifted all of our day-to-day activities, 200% virtual. And we, but despite all of that, we've maintained regular cadence for our review business and technical roadmap updates and other regular activities. And if I may mention this, right, last month we AWS actually launched the digital workplace competency, clearly enabling customers to find specialized solutions around remote work and secure remote work and Druva, even though we are all in this virtual environment today, Druva was one of the launch partners for this competency. And it was a great fit given the solution that they have to enable the remote work environments securely, and also providing an end-to-end digital workplace in the cloud. >> That's absolutely critical because that's been one of the biggest challenges I think that we've all been through as well as, you know trying to go, do I live at work or do I work from home? I'm not sure some of the days, but being able to have that continuity and you know, your customers being able to access their data at 24 by seven, as you said, because there's no point in mapping up your data, if you can't recover it but being able to allow the continuation of the relationship that you have. I want to move on now to some of the announcements. Chris, you mentioned actually Sabina you did, when you were talking about the University of Manchester, the VMware ready certification Chris, Druva just announced a couple of things there. Talk to us about that. >> Thank you. Yeah, Lisa you're right. There's been a ton of great announcements over the past several months and throughout this entire fiscal year. To be in this touch base on a couple of them around the AWS digital workplace, we absolutely have certification on AWS around VMware cloud, both on AWS and Dell EMC, through AWS. In addition to continuing to drive innovation because of this unique partnership around powerful security encryption and overall security benefits across the board. So that includes AWS gov cloud. That includes HIPAA compliance, includes FedRAMP, as well as SOC two type two, certifications as well and protection there. So we're going to continue to drive that innovation. We just recently announced as well that we now have data protection for Kubernetes, 100% cloud offering, right? One of the most active and growing workloads around data, around orchestration platform, right? So, doing that with AWS, some of my opening comments back when we built this 100% AWS, that allows us to continue to innovate and be nimble and meet the needs of customers. So whether that be VMware workloads NAS workloads, new workloads, like Kubernetes we're always going to be well positioned to address those, not only over time, but on the front end. And as these emerging technologies come out the nimbleness of our joint partnership just continues to be demonstrated there. >> And Sabina, I know that AWS has a working backwards approach. Talk to me about how you use that to accomplish all of the things that Chris and you both described over the last six, seven plus years. >> Yes, so the working backwards process we use it internally when we build our own services, but we also worked through it with our partners, right? It's about putting the customers first, aligning on those use cases. And it all goes back to our Amazon leadership principle on customer obsession, focusing on the customer experience, making sure that we have mechanisms in place, to have feedback from the customers and operate that into our services solutions and also with our partners. Well, one of the nice things about Druva since I've been working with them since 2014 is their focus on customer obsession. Through this process, we've developed great relationship, Druva, together with our service team, building solutions that deliver value by providing a full Saas service for customers, who want to protect their data, not only in AWS, but also in a hybrid architecture model on premises. And this is really critical to us cause our customers want us to work with Druva, to solve the pain points, creating a completely maybe a new customer experience, right. That makes them happy. And ultimately what we have found together with Druva, is I think Chris would agree with this, is that when we focus on our mutual customers, it leads to a very longterm successful partnership as we have today with Druva. >> It sounds like you talked about that feedback loop in the beginning from customers, but it sounds like that's really intertwined the entire relationship. And certainly from what you guys described in terms of the evolution, the customer successes, and all of the things that have been announced recently, a lot of stuff going on. So we'll let you guys get back to work. We appreciate your time, Chris. Thank you for joining me today. For Chris white and Sabina Joseph, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE. (soft music fades)

>>welcome to our session on security titled Securing Your Cloud. Everywhere With Me is Brian Langston, senior solutions engineer from Miranda's, who leads security initiatives from Renta's most security conscious customers. Our topic today is security, and we're setting the bar high by talking in some depth about the requirements of the most highly regulated industries. So, Brian four Regulated industries What do you perceive as the benefits of evolution from classic infra za service to container orchestration? >>Yeah, the adoption of container orchestration has given rise to five key benefits. The first is accountability. Think about the evolution of Dev ops and the security focused version of that team. Deb. SEC ops. These two competencies have emerged to provide, among other things, accountability for the processes they oversee. The outputs that they enable. The second benefit is audit ability. Logging has always been around, but the pervasiveness of logging data within container or container environments allows for the definition of audit trails in new and interesting ways. The third area is transparency organizations that have well developed container orchestration pipelines are much more likely to have a higher degree of transparency in their processes. This helps development teams move faster. It helped operations teams operations teams identify and resolve issues easier and help simplify the observation and certification of security operations by security organizations. Next is quality. Several decades ago, Toyota revolutionized the manufacturing industry when they implemented the philosophy of continuous improvement. Included within that philosophy was this dependency and trust in the process as the process was improved so that the quality of the output Similarly, the refinement of the process of container orchestration yields ah, higher quality output. The four things have mentioned ultimately points to a natural outcome, which is speed when you don't have to spend so much time wondering who does what or who did what. When you have the clear visibility to your processes and because you can continuously improve the quality of your work, you aren't wasting time in a process that produces defects or spending time and wasteful rework phases. You can move much faster than we've seen this to be the case with our customers. >>So what is it specifically about? Container orchestration that gives these benefits, I guess. I guess I'm really asking why are these benefits emerging now around these technologies? What's enabling them, >>right? So I think it boils down to four things related to the orchestration pipelines that are also critical components. Two successful security programs for our customers and related industry. The first one is policy. One of the core concepts and container orchestration is this idea of declaring what you want to happen or declaring the way you want things done? One place where declarations air made our policies. So as long as we can define what we want to happen, it's much easier to do complementary activities like enforcement, which is our second enabler. Um, tools that allow you to define a policy typically have a way to enforce that policy. Where this isn't the case, you need to have a way of enforcing and validating the policies objectives. Miranda's tools allow custom policies to be written and also enforce those policies. The third enabler is the idea of a baseline. Having a well documented set of policies and processes allows you to establish a baseline. Um, it allows you to know what's normal. Having a baseline allows you to measure against it as a way of evaluating whether or not you're achieving your objectives with container orchestration. The fourth enabler of benefits is continuous assessment, which is about measuring constantly back to what I said a few minutes ago. With the toilet away measuring constantly helps you see whether your processes and your target and state are being delivered as your output deviates from that baseline, your adjustments can be made more quickly. So these four concepts, I think, could really make or break your compliance status. >>It's a really way interesting way of thinking about compliance. I had thought previously back compliance, mostly as a as a matter of legally declaring and then trying to do something. But at this point, we have methods beyond legal boilerplate for asserting what we wanna happen, as you say, and and this is actually opening up new ways to detect, deviation and and enforce failure to comply. That's really exciting. Um, so you've you've touched on the benefits of container orchestration here, and you've provided some thoughts on what the drivers on enablers are. So what does Miranda's fit in all this? How does how are we helping enable these benefits, >>right? Well, our goal and more antis is ultimately to make the world's most compliant distribution. We we understand what our customers need, and we have developed our product around those needs, and I could describe a few key security aspects about our product. Um, so Miranda's promotes this idea of building and enabling a secure software supply chain. The simplified version of that that pertains directly to our product follows a build ship run model. So at the build stage is doctor trusted registry. This is where images are stored following numerous security best practices. Image scanning is an optional but highly recommended feature to enable within D T R. Image tags can be regularly pruned so that you have the most current validated images available to your developers. And the second or middle stage is the ship stage, where Miranda's enforces policies that also follow industry best practices, as well as custom image promotion policies that our customers can write and align to their own internal security requirements. The third and final stages to run stage. And at this stage, we're talking about the engine itself. Docker Engine Enterprise is the Onley container, run time with 51 40 dash to cryptography and has many other security features built in communications across the cluster across the container platform are all secure by default. So this build ship stage model is one way of how our products help support this idea of a secure supply chain. There are other aspects of the security supply chain that arm or customer specific that I won't go into. But that's kind of how we could help our product. The second big area eso I just touched on the secure supply chain. The second big area is in a Stig certification. Um, a stick is basically an implementation or configuration guide, but it's published by the U. S government for products used by the US government. It's not exclusive to them, but for customers that value security highly, especially in a regulated industry, will understand the significance and value that the Stig certification brings. So in achieving the certification, we've demonstrated compliance or alignment with a very rigid set of guidelines. Our fifth validation, the cryptography and the Stig certification our third party at two stations that our product is secure, whether you're using our product as a government customer, whether you're a customer in a regulated industry or something else, >>I did not understand what the Stig really Waas. It's helpful because this is not something that I think people in the industry by and large talk about. I suspect because these things are hard to get and time consuming to get s so they don't tend to bubble up to the top of marketing speak the way glitzy new features do that may or may not >>be secure. >>The, uh so then moving on, how has container orchestration changed? How your customers approach compliance assessment and reporting. >>Yeah, This has been an interesting experience and observation as we've worked with some of our customers in these areas. Eso I'll call out three areas. One is the integration of assessment tooling into the overall development process. The second is assessment frequency and then the third is how results are being reported, which includes what data is needed to go into the reporting. There are very likely others that could be addressed. But those are three things that I have noticed personally and working with customers. >>What do you mean exactly? By integration of assessment tooling. >>Yeah. So our customers all generally have some form of a development pipeline and process eso with various third party and open source tools that can be inserted at various phases of the pipeline to do things like status static source would analysis or host scanning or image scanning and other activities. What's not very well established in some cases is how everything fits within the overall pipeline framework. Eso fit too many customers, ends up having a conversation with us about what commands need should be run with what permissions? Where in the environment should things run? How does code get there that does this scanning? Where does the day to go? Once the out once the scan is done and how will I consume it? Thies Real things where we can help our customers understand? Um, you know what? Integration? What? Integration of assessment. Tooling really means. >>It is fascinating to hear this on, baby. We can come back to it at the end. But what I'm picking out of this Ah, this the way you speak about this and this conversation is this kind of re emergence of these Japanese innovations in product productivity in in factory floor productivity. Um, like, just in time delivery and the, you know, the Toyota Miracle and, uh, and that kind of stuff. Fundamentally, it's someone Yesterday, Anders Wahlgren from cloud bees, of course. The C I. C D expert told me, um, that one of the things he likes to tell his, uh consult ease and customers is to put a GoPro on the head of your code and figure out where it's going and how it's spending its time, which is very reminiscent of these 19 fifties time and motion studies, isn't it that that that people, you know pioneered accelerating the factory floor in the industrial America of the mid century? The idea that we should be coming back around to this and doing it at light speed with code now is quite fascinating. >>Yeah, it's funny how many of those same principles are really transferrable from 50 60 70 years ago to today. Yeah, quite fascinating. >>So getting back to what you were just talking about integrating, assessment, tooling, it sounds like that's very challenging. And you mentioned assessment frequency and and reporting. What is it about those areas that that's required? Adaptation >>Eso eso assessment frequency? Um, you know, in legacy environments, if we think about what those look like not too long ago, uh, compliance assessment used to be relatively infrequent activity in the form of some kind of an audit, whether it be a friendly peer review or intercompany audit. Formal third party assessments, whatever. In many cases, these were big, lengthy reviews full of interview questions, Um, it's requests for information, periods of data collection and then the actual review itself. One of the big drawbacks to this lengthy engagement is an infrequent engagement is that vulnerabilities would sometimes go unnoticed or unmitigated until these reviews at it. But in this era of container orchestration, with the decomposition of everything in the software supply chain and with clearer visibility of the various inputs to the build life cycle, our customers can now focus on what tooling and processes can be assembled together in the form of a pipeline that allows constant inspection of a continuous flow of code from start to finish. And they're asking how our product can integrate into their pipeline into their Q A frameworks to help simplify this continuous assessment framework. Eso that's that kind of addresses the frequency, uh, challenge now regarding reporting, our customers have had to reevaluate how results are being reported and the data that's needed in the reporting. The root of this change is in the fact that security has multiple stakeholder groups and I'll just focus on two of them. One is development, and their primary focus, if you think about it, is really about finding and fixing defects. That's all they're focused on, really, is there is there pushing code? The other group, though, is the Security Project Management Office, or PMO. This group is interested in what security controls are at risk due to those defects. So the data that you need for these two stakeholder groups is very different. But because it's also related, it requires a different approach to how the data is expressed, formatted and ultimately integrated with sometimes different data sources to be able to appease both use cases. >>Mhm. So how does Miranda's help improve the rate of compliance assessment? Aziz? Well, as this question of the need for differential data presentation, >>right, So we've developed on exposed a P I S that helped report the compliance status of our product as it's implemented in our customers on environment. So through these AP eyes, we express the data and industry standard formats using plastic out Oscar is a relatively new project out of the mist organization. It's really all about standardizing a set of standards instead of formats that expresses control information. So in this way our customers can get machine and human readable information related to compliance, and that data can then be massaged into other tools or downstream processes that our customers might have. And what I mean by downstream processes is if you're a development team and you have the inspection tools, the process is to gather findings defects related to your code. A downstream process might be the ticketing system with the era that might log a formal defect or that finding. But it all starts with having a common, standard way of expressing thes scan output. And the findings such that both development teams and and the security PMO groups can both benefit from the data. So essentially we've been following this philosophy of transparency, insecurity. What we mean by that is security isn't or should not be a black box of information on Lee, accessible and consumable by security professionals. Assessment is happening proactively in our product, and it's happening automatically. We're bringing security out of obscurity by exposing the aspects of our product that ultimately have a bearing on your compliance status and then making that information available to you in very user friendly ways. >>It's fascinating. Uh uh. I have been excited about Oscar's since, uh, since first hearing about it, Um, it seems extraordinarily important to have what is, in effect, a ah query capability. Um, that that let's that that lets different people for different reasons formalize and ask questions of a system that is constantly in flux, very, very powerful. So regarding security, what do you see is the basic requirements for container infrastructure and tools for use in production by the industries that you are working with, >>right? So obviously, you know, the tools and infrastructure is going to vary widely across customers. But Thio generalize it. I would refer back to the concept I mentioned earlier of a secure software supply chain. There are several guiding principles behind us that are worth mentioning. The first is toe have a strategy for ensuring code quality. What this means is being able to do static source code analysis, static source code analysis tools are largely language specific, so there may be a few different tools that you'll need to have to be able to manage that, um, second point is to have a framework for doing regular testing or even slightly more formal security assessments. There are plenty of tools that can help get a company started doing this. Some of these tools are scanning engines like open ESCAP that's also a product of n'est open. ESCAP can use CS benchmarks as inputs, and these tools do a very good job of summarizing and visualizing output, um, along the same family or idea of CS benchmarks. There's many, many benchmarks that are published. And if you look at your own container environment, um, there are very likely to be many benchmarks that can form the core platform, the building blocks of your container environment. There's benchmarks for being too, for kubernetes, for Dr and and it's always growing. In fact, Mirante is, uh, editing the benchmark for container D, so that will be a formal CSCE benchmark coming up very shortly. Um, next item would be defining security policies that line with your organization's requirements. There are a lot of things that come out of box that comes standard that comes default in various products, including ours, but we also give you through our product. The ability to write your own policies that align with your own organization's requirements, uh, minimizing your tax surface. It's another key area. What that means is only deploying what's necessary. Pretty common sense. But sometimes it's overlooked. What this means is really enabling required ports and services and nothing more. Um, and it's related to this concept of least privilege, which is the next thing I would suggest focusing on these privileges related to minimizing your tax service. It's, uh, it's about only allowing permissions to those people or groups that excuse me that are absolutely necessary. Um, within the container environment, you'll likely have heard this deny all approach. This denial approach is recommended here, which means deny everything first and then explicitly allow only what you need. Eso. That's a very common, uh uh, common thing that sometimes overlooked in some of our customer environments. Andi, finally, the idea of defense and death, which is about minimizing your plast radius by implementing multiple layers of defense that also are in line with your own risk management strategy. Eso following these basic principles, adapting them to your own use cases and requirements, uh, in our experience with our customers, they could go a long way and having a secure software supply chain. >>Thank you very much, Brian. That was pretty eye opening. Um, and I had the privilege of listening to it from the perspective of someone who has been working behind the scenes on the launch pad 2020 event. So I'd like to use that privilege to recommend that our listeners, if you're interested in this stuff certainly if you work within one of these regulated industries in a development role, um, that you may want to check out, which will be easy for you to do today, since everything is available once it's been presented. Matt Bentley's live presentation on secure Supply Chain, where he demonstrates one possible example of a secure supply chain that permits image. Signing him, Scanning on content Trust. Um, you may want to check out the session that I conducted with Andres Falcon at Cloud Bees who talks about thes um, these industrial efficiency factory floor time and motion models for for assessing where software is in order to understand what policies can and should be applied to it. Um, and you will probably want to frequent the tutorial sessions in that track, uh, to see about how Dr Enterprise Container Cloud implements many of these concentric security policies. Um, in order to provide, you know, as you say, defense in depth. There's a lot going on in there, and, uh, and it's ah, fascinating Thio to see it all expressed. Brian. Thanks again. This has been really, really educational. >>My pleasure. Thank you. >>Have a good afternoon. >>Thank you too. Bye.

from around the globe it's the cube with digital coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back this is the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 I'm Stu minimun and it's our seventh year doing the cube this year of course it is a digital event which means we are reaching all the community members where they are around the globe really excited to bring program first time guests and a first time to redhead summit Vachon Vora he's the chief technology officer of Vodafone idea joining me from Mumbai India bhishan nice to see you take so much for joining us it's a pleasure to be here as >> I'm looking forward to this interaction all right so as I said I've been at Red Hat show for many years the the telecommunications space you know service providers are some of the you know more interesting in the technology space you talk about scale you talk about change you talk about you know software eating the world all of those discussions are ones I've had for many years but you know I think many people know Vodafone may be a vote a fun idea escape for us you know the organisation and of course you've got the CTO at so you know what that means inside your organization sure so what a fun idea is a company that came came to acclaim as a result of a merger about 18 months ago so the number two and number three operators in India which was Vodafone an idea came together to create a telco serving over 300 million subscribers and we've been integrating the the networks over the last 18 months and consolidating and doing one of the largest integration in the world of two networks comprising over 200 thousand sites and carrying you know more than 50 billion MB of traffic per hour per day serving more than 40 million voltaic customers and we have been duplicating the network very very busy with her and we taken down so far almost a hundred thousand base stations which is equivalent to the size of a large operator in us so that's about the carnahan that is about the scale of the the operator that word of an idea is and what we've been busy with for the last day yeah well well Besant of course the reason we're doing this event online is because right now with the global pandemic the vast majority of the population they're at home so you know healthcare of course you know one of the major concerns I actually have done interviews with some of the power and energy companies critically important at this time but you know telecommunications you know what one of the top of the list you know in normal times for what people need but today it's the the only way that we can all connect it so tell us a little bit about do you know what the current situation you know the impact and importance this really highlights of your business yeah so just as the rest of the world India is also in a lockdown and India actually has one of the largest the largest lockdown in the world putting all 1.3 billion people in a lockdown yeah across the entire country so within that context the telecom network is crucial to make sure that the life goes on the essential services are delivered the industry continues to still operate as the best it can and all of that is made possible because of a stable and reliable network that we offer so a huge huge impact on the society always has been but in in this current context it is even more more critical and crucial so what we do is we make sure that we are the invisible layer you talked about health healthcare workers and emergency services well we are the invisible essential service that probably many people don't see but we are the ones who are really helping this country survive this this crisis and so far we have seen 25 30% increase in traffic in a single day in one week we experienced the same amount of traffic growth we would have experienced in the entire year so we we scalability is very very critical in our network and we've been able to keep up with that kind of a growth and continue to serve the communities and in this crucial juncture and all this dude large extent has been made possible because of a large-scale deployment of cloud technologies that we have done over the last 18 months which has really helped us scale up a large lot of our capabilities in the back yeah I'd love if you could explain a little bit more on that it you know challenging times you know I'm curious the amount of people that are using your services probably haven't changed but the demand and how much they're using it as change a lot so cloud obviously gives you scalability but you know are there concerns about what this does the profitability how you maintain things how much of this is a temporary change and how much will this be you know I know in the United States there's a lot of talk about how much work from home will become more of a standard than it had been before this pandemic so you know short term what's the impact on your business and what are you and other telecommunication companies thinking about what long-term impact this will have >> I think that's a very very interesting question I think even for me and my organization what we have been able to do working from home is amazing I never would have thought that it was possible to do as much as we've been able to do just staying young with most of the work for staying at home and that has really I think happened across industries across the entire country I think many organizations have now realized that work from home or work from anywhere which is the other term he's gonna become quite possible and prevalent going forward because people have realized that you can just get you can get just as much productivity out you can get so many things done working from home and it gives so much more personal flexibility to the individuals so I see when I look back at our organizational experience I see our productivity has been actually quite good actually better then haha where probably even in the office days so I think that is definitely one thing that is gonna come out as a global change across all industries I think the second thing that is gonna happen is data analytics I think there is going to be far more analysis of data to understand patterns and understand trends and how to take advantage of that I think of course the immediate application is in the healthcare and the spread of the pandemic but I think this will spur a lot of other analytics I think the third thing is going to do is the adoption of digital as the primary mode digital was already something that most companies are working on as is a top priority but I think going outward is gonna become very evident to people that it is actually essential just talking about my business I can tell you today you know all the stores all the shops every place that we used to check our cell or recharge vouchers are closed so the only place we are able to get any revenue from is our digital channel and on end only place where customers have been able to recharge their prepaid subscriptions etc has all been through digital I think digital we will also become a massive massive requirement so in that context I think telecom will be seen as a critical critical backbone I think to a large extent it has been seen by many in the past is more of an essential commodity but I think many organizations will realise that this is actually a value creator so I think it's a great exciting opportunity for us to take advantage of those new business opportunities that will come and at the same time be a very very important player in the digital economy that every nation around the world is gonna press you know for Sean said it really appreciates some really good commentary there you know we've been talking for years about customers going through their digital transformation it's really about the data and how they leverage that and if you're data-driven then you really have gone through that transformation and you kind of described what we call the new innovation cocktail you're leveraging cloud that there's data you put those all together as to how you drive your company and you can drive innovation oftentimes when we think about what results we're going to get from deploying cloud and using these types of new technologies we think we know what we're gonna get but the reality of how your company is dealing with things today of course you know proves what you were hoping that build for here help us understand you know what we're talking here is part of red hat summit this week you know what's red hats role in this piece and you know how did the reality of rolling this out and then how it has helped you in the current global situation impacted your business sure oh so I would say actually the three words that I used digital cloud and analytics to me they're actually inseparable cuz I do not believe that you can have a digital business that is not based on cloud or that is not good at data analytics I think if you want to really have a successful cloud offering it implies that automatically that you are a digital business and you're gonna do extensive modern data and analytics and build those capabilities I think those are three inseparable terms now speaking specifically about a red head I would say that red head has been a very very critical partner for us right from the beginning 18 months ago when the two companies too came together to create this network we knew that we had to do several things number one was actually to have a completely rationalized structure which was around extracting the synergies from the from the merger but beyond that we needed to build a telco of the future technology company of the future which will let us transform the business and create capabilities that will give us a step ahead a leapfrog ahead of our competition and cloud was a very very essential part of the journey and we knew we needed to build a cloud based on open systems because we did not want to get into a proprietary logins with anybody and we are a very large business we have suffered a sufficiently large scale to really be able to build a very large cloud so we started working with Red Hat about two years ago and it in the last two years we have deployed 80 plus cloud locations distributed cloud locations across the country and these all of these clouds our vision is to orchestrate them as a single cloud our vision is to build a cloud there is a universal cloud actually that is the word there is a word we use when we talk about cloud it's a universal cloud what does that mean that means that cloud will carry not only the traditional telco workloads but it will also carry IT workloads it will also carry lot of the enterprise offerings we have so - for the end-user for our enterprise clients and all of those capabilities out to be accommodated with a platform that is versatile that is scalable and that is gonna give me in enormous amount of flexibility and control as a organization so Red Hat has been a very important part of the journey and on the red head OpenStack cloud today I have a Daffy's working from any major supplier you can think of I have any enemies working from Nokia Ericsson Huawei ziti even some smaller players like Marvin here so we have demonstrated that this is possible we've been able to break the lock in that the traditional naps have had on their cloud offerings which were really more of a virtualized offerings rather than a cloud computer is a truly universal cloud on the back of the technology provided by a red well that's that's fantastic congratulations on that I love the the result of what you're calling Universal Cloud is the promise that we talked about for a number of years you know is that nitty gritty networking piece it was like you know network functions virtualization and if be sitting an open stack and everybody's like well OpenStack am I trying to build a cloud to compete against the public cloud providers it was like no what you said exactly there's services that you want to be able to deliver and it's not just about oh we're getting away from hardware appliances it's you know just like most people today they're used to whatever smart device they're doing I want to be able to turn on channels and access new things that's your now you know reducing that barrier to Vodafone idea to deliver that to your users have I captured that properly that is correct as a matter of fact I'll just give you one proof point my water phone app is the app that we we have for our consumers and that app is currently running on my telco clock what used to be called the telco cloud so on that platform we are running my packet or actually there are about 40 and FB is for virtualized traditional calculations running alongside with an IT application a digital application okay so one of the things I you know I would like to understand there that what you've deployed there over the last couple of years sounds like a significant shift so you know you're talking about apps you're talking more of a developer type of environment bring us inside a little organizationally you know what new skills have new people had to learn has there been new people added to the organization have there been in a restructures what what is this this this whole initiative to get to universal cloud meant for your organization sure so I look after both the network and IT pieces of the part of parts of the company and you know we traditionally were in the past legacy we have had a IT cloud and we have heard indigo cloud what we are now creating is a single universal cloud what either of the two workloads are gonna be facilitated so for that actually the two organization the two parts of the organization need to come together and start to really work as one now it is very important that the telco guys understand the scale and the 99-year the five nines required in a running a network but at the same time IT guys also understand very much what all of the the flexibility that the business requires and the responsiveness required for the for the enterprise so bringing those two talents together I think in infusing that to create a single organization is one of the biggest challenges I think any telco has we also face it that is one aspect of it the second aspect of it is that there just aren't too many cloud experts in the world and we have been struggling with that I think skill shortage is a clear challenge for us now we try to address it using variety of means we of course try to upscale rescale lot of the traditional network core engineers that we have had we also try to use talent available or from consultants and then we also try to use our vendors so one of the concepts we've been working with our vendors is a concept of a resident engineer so we try to actually get them to second some of their engineers to work with us and at the same time we've been now working with both IBM and redhead to create a program to really go out and create a community around us of developers who can really work with this cloud and therefore we will have enough of skills available to leverage all of the potential benefits there are then the platform but can only be unleashed if I have the right skills and right people you touched on a very important issue it is a challenge but we are working our way through it and so far we've been a bit we make good all right well if it's shot I can't let a CTO go without looking a little bit into the future so want to help understand we talked about some of the technologies talked about transformation of what's happening your business what's happening your organization and there's some big waves coming week you know cloud is still in early days 5g of course you know is expected to have massive impact on on everyone's environment for this so what is the winning formula for the the telecoms going forward well I think Phi G is an exciting world we are a 4G network today the Phi G spectrum hasn't been auctioned in India but what we are building today is what I call a 4G plus network which means the lot of the architectural principles of PI G we have already applied in my core networks today and in my transport network in that world I think IOT is gonna play a very very big role and if you want to do things like IOT and if you want to do things like blockchain now I think telco cloud has a huge role to play because we are the telcos are traditionally the only ones in a country anywhere in the world who have experiences experience in operating in very far front powerful places dealing with lot of the infrastructure challenges especially if you're in a developing country you know that you have to work with a poor power availability poor transport etc I do not see any of the big guys the the big cloud players really having those capabilities today I think telcos are gonna play a very big role in enabling that pi g io t work and it is going to be an exciting journey for telcos I think telcos will very soon be called tech companies that is one thing that I strongly believe in I think also many of the things that depend on blockchain will require the kind of cloud that telcos will create because a telco cloud is far more demanding than a traditional IT application in many ways for example latency or for example throughputs now all those things aren't very important in blockchain apple type of applications I think that's another exciting opportunity for telcos really is to get into that and of course there are discussions about smart cities smart government government and because of Kovach kharkova crisis I think many governments are gonna explore new ways of organizing Society's new ways of governing economic activities and the backbone for a lot of those things is gonna be our telecom networks and the cloud distributed clouds to the edge that we create so I think it'll create many many exciting business opportunities as a consequence of some of those technological innovation yeah Shanta I can't remember who said it as they said don't waste a crisis but Vasant Bora CTO of Vodafone idea pleasure talking with you thank you so much for joining us hope you enjoy the Red Hat event as it is distributed this year and definitely look to be able to meet you sometime at a future physical event back when we have those in the future Thank You Stu it's been a pleasure meeting you virtually and look forward to these all right lots more coverage from the cubes Red Hat summit at 20/20 activity I'm Stu minimun and thanks as always for watching [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego, everybody. This is Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Lisa Martin is also here. Stu, I actually did see Ron Burgundy in the street last night. He was out, he was shaking hands with all the CCIEs. This is day three of Cisco Live 2019, theCUBE's coverage. Joe Malenfant is here, the director of IOT marketing at Cisco. Joe, great to see you in from Colorado Springs. >> Thank you very much. >> First time at theCUBE, welcome. >> It is my first time in theCUBE, thankfully it's not actually just a box, because I have a little claustrophobia going on. >> (laughs) So, IOT, it's got all the momentum. Alisa Tony was up on stage this week, addressing 28,000 press people. What's driving all this momentum, other than the great marketing, what's really happening in the field? >> IOT has been a very nebulous thing for the last few years, and we're finally started to see some solidification and some convergence around what it means. And really for Cisco, we started on this path a few years ago, but Liz took over last year. We've established a new strategy, because customers, organizations and especially organizations that run operational technology, think of refineries in the oil and gas industry, in the electric utilities industry. They run a whole separate network called industrial control systems, and that OT side of the house has traditionally been very siloed. Well, as the economy moves forward, as we digitize, they're trying to connect back with their enterprise side of the house. Well, if you're going to connect your network with the IT side, why not use the incumbent leader in enterprise networking? We know who they are. We're all sitting here right now with Cisco. So they look back to the IT side to say, hey, please help us connect. That's really what's driving the market today. >> So how should we think about the difference between OT networks and IT networks? Are there any things we can learn from Tellco which also had some unique inner attributes to it? But share with us what you guys have learned there. >> So the OT network is very different, right? It's very time sensitive; latency is just something that they can't have. When you think of email going down, what's the worst that happens? You might get a nasty gram eventually. Well, when the power grid falls over, lives are at stake. So, those networks are very critical, they're very sensitive and they've always been kept separate. As they start to make that interconnection, we need to bring together networking technologies that are for that environment. As they make that connection though, there is a very number one concern for them is wait a second, if we're going to connect this stuff, we need to make sure it's secure. If you're a chemical processor for example, and you've got a secret recipe, you don't publish that. You don't patent it, because you don't want the word to get out or else somebody's going to rip you off. So, they don't want to have this side of the house get connected with that side of the house and expose the secret sauce. So security becomes very top of mind for them. Connected but do it securely. >> All right, so, Joe, I've actually been happy with how I've seen the solutions (mumbles) from Cisco, because when I first heard IOT, it was like, well we're the leader in networking. We're going to network everything, and I'm like, okay. But at the device edge, one of the challenges is, often I have limited or no connectivity. So sometimes, I'm going to need to do the processing there. There's lots of different protocol issues that I have there. So talk about some of those new solutions that Cisco's been doing at the edge that are more than just sending bits back and forth. >> That's a great question, Stu. So, of course, everything has to do with networking, right? But networking is merely the vehicle for connectivity, and so we realized very quickly if we're going to create new routers and switches for this environment, there's an opportunity to do a little bit more. So back in February, we did something at DevNet Create called the Hackathon. We have a new router. It's a ruggedized router called the IR1101. I think Liz showed it on stage the other day, and this has a specific module inside of it. So there's a module that can be swapped out. Well, at the DevNet Create Hackathon, one of the teams actually created a machine learning module. Why machine learning at the edge, right? If you have 700 sub stations, you don't want to deploy machine learning on each and every one of them. You want to get all that data back into a central place so you have more data to actually train your algorithms on. Why would you put ML at the edge? Because not everything needs to come back. There's stuff that you can do at the edge, number one, with that machine learning on traffic that doesn't have to go back. When you don't back all traffic, that means you don't have to pay costs over to your LTE carrier for more data. Other times, as well, though, you're looking at compliance as another reason. So, that's one use case, right? Let's look at the other one, which really comes down to, okay, if I'm connecting things, and you can actually do some computing at the edge, how are we going to do it? On all of our new switches and routers that have edge compute capability, they're using native docker containers, so now you can actually deploy your applications at the edge. Again, do the work at the edge as close to where it has to be as possible. Don't bring it back, you don't have to worry about any sort of violation of compliance with local laws, sovereignty clouds. You don't have to worry about costs of back hauling traffic. And then, if anything's time sensitive, it stays as close to the edge as possible. >> So one of the keys here to your strategy is clear, is to allow developers to build new applications at the edge. You're not OT experts; that's not your roots. And those developers, your ultimate clients, are. They're the domain experts, they know what's going on, they know these specialized areas, so talk about the importance of having programmable infrastructure at the edge, and specifically what your strategy is. Where does Cisco leave off? And you're not a pass vendor. You're going to bring that in through partnerships, but help us understand that strategy a little bit better. >> Our ecosystem is incredibly important to us. So we've got, DevNet is incredibly important to Cisco, because as you heard probably yesterday, Susie announced new certifications for IOT. Those certifications allow engineers, whether it's a control systems engineer, whether it's a network engineer, to actually get certified, be it specialist, be it professional, in writing their applications for the edge, for those specific environments. But more importantly, because, let's go back to the environment that we're working in, time sensitive, very critical, low latency networks. You don't want to go and push out something where you're not 100% certain, so IOT certifications that DevNet has created give those engineers a repository, a sandbox and all of the Cisco solutions to actually test with before they do the deployment and ensure, almost guarantee themselves success by pushing the production. >> And one of the key things theirs do is the ability to test things quickly and fail fast. >> Yeah, well one of the things that I was a little bit concerned about when I saw this wave of IOT is every customer's going to have different requirements, so it feels like we at least get some level of maturity and commonality if we can have certification. >> Joe: Exactly. >> What does somebody come out of? What skill set do they have in rank? Because you said from a manufacturing or healthcare, everybody's going to use IOT, but how we use it and where we use it is going to be very different. What's the base layer that we're learning about? >> So, ultimately, the engineer who's actually coding these things, kind of what you said. They're all going to be very vertical specific use cases. There's not a lot of horizontal stuff going on, so we're creating a baseline for the engineer to understand their environments better. They honestly know it better than we do, but we want to make sure that as they go to deploy these things that we give them the infrastructure to do it on, the application and framework within which to do it, and the tools to be able to do it. And so that's the docker, the modules, being able to do edge compute and then lastly having that certification within IOT to how do I code this thing? Can I guarantee that I'm going to be successful and push it out? >> Joe, what's the organizational dynamic like? You always hear the store's OT is not talking to IT. They're different animals. You've got some hardcore engineers that have hardened their infrastructure, and you got IT guys that are trying to build applications and support applications for the business. Those two constituencies don't talk. What can Cisco do? What's the strategy with regard to bringing those constituents together? Do you have to or is it sort of divide and conquer? >> I think the number one thing that we want to do is enable the collaboration between the IT and OT. It's not that people don't want to. They're just trying to figure out how to do it better. So if we can help them number one, connect their networks together, safely and securely, that's number one. Reliable and secure networking, what we're known for. But number two, from the OT side, back to what I said originally was around the security side. So, I don't know if you guys heard, we announced last week our intent to acquire a company called Sentryo. Now, why is this important? Because they do passive network detection, whether it's anomaly detection, but they do asset discovery as well. Now a big thing when you're connecting those OT networks into the IT world is what assets do I even have? Those assets are vastly different from anything IT actually knows so this acquisition will allow us to passively discover and tell them, here's your list of assets that you're going to be connecting. Here's what we need to secure, so they know in scope as they walk into this project, they've got a really good blueprint for what needs to be done and not surprises. And the reason that's important is about only 40% of all IOT projects make it from pilot to production. I mean that's kind of staggeringly low. I actually had an analyst tell me yesterday, I'm shocked you guys said 40%, because I only hear about 30%. >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> And when you're doing it in a lab, you know all the variables, but when you go out to a brown field environment, where you've got 20 year old systems that honestly was probably a system hidden underneath some guy's desk that nobody's actually known about. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We're actually able to discover all those assets now. That's why we did the acquisitions, so it's really from an asset visibility and a security standpoint. >> And you're saying, Joe, that that discovery is specific to edge assets versus like a stealth watch. We heard a lot about stealth watch this week, which is they do discovery, but you say that's predominantly IT assets, servers, storage, networking, you know, switches, et cetera, routers. >> I mean, listen, so stealth watch is awesome, and I think eventually there's going to be a little bit of a merger between some of these things. But, the operational technology environment is very different. They're not native IP. They don't talk the same protocols. There's thousands of different protocols that exist in an operational technology environment, DMP3, Modbus, Profinet, Profibus. Just very few right there. (laughs) Those IT has never, ever talked them. They don't even know what they mean for the most part. Tell an IT guy, hey can you detect this DMP3 traffic? The answer's no. However, when we move into that environment, our networks need to be able to understand that traffic, and that's where Sentryo comes in with that operational technology expertise to help the IT and the OT really come together. Business all comes at the end of the day. >> So, Joe, give us a little spin around the show from an IOT standpoint. We've got the IOT takeover happening here in the DevNet zone. All the classroom seem packed jammed, as they've been all week for all the takeovers, but give us a little spin around. >> It's been amazing actually so far, this year. Having been at Cisco for a few years now, I walked into this and said, wow, we are definitely in the IOT world. We've got IOT plastered outside; we've got it inside. People are very interested in IOT. They're interested not just in what we're doing, but how they can take the knowledge and what they're going to learn here and really bring it back into a practical use case at their own organizations. So, from an IOT perspective, the world of solutions downstairs is jam packed. I mean, we've got a massive presence down there. We've connected the buses that are outside. If you look at the app, we've actually connected those buses to the app for real time data to say this is when the next bus is actually coming. I mean, what a pain in the butt is it to stand outside and go, where's the shuttle bus? We can tell you where the shuttle bus is. We can tell you when it's coming and how long you're going to have to wait. And yes, don't worry, you've got time to get another coffee. >> Just follow the line you'll find the bus. (laughs) >> You'll find the bus but how long is it going to take to get you there? >> (laughs) Okay, you were mentioning about some of the reasons for apps at the edge. I want to come back and explore that a little bit. You said compliance, I think you threw in cost. There's physics involved, as well. So the cloud guys would say, hey yeah, we know there's a lot of stuff going at the edge, but ultimately the heavy work is going to be done in the cloud and all the modeling. You've got others who are saying, hey, here's the blocks, going to put it at the edge instead of a top down approach. What's your scenario in terms of data at the edge? Why does data need to stay at the edge? You mentioned real time before, but let's double click on that a little bit. >> So I think there's really three key reasons that data and applications are going to be processed at the edge. Number one, compliance, right? So there's certain data that's going to come in that cannot be shipped back to a public cloud. That's part of the rules; you cannot do it. No public cloud for certain private data. Number two is cost, honestly, and this is a really big one. If you can reduce your overall cost, instead of back hauling all that traffic to HQ, to your data center, and you just keep it at the edge, you don't have to back haul it. LTE traffic, not the cheapest, and I can only imagine with 5G how much that's going to increase the cost. They're going to want to just back haul everything, right? Well, we can do that really quickly. We can take everything and put it back. Yes, but your bill every month is going to be monumentally more expensive. And then, lastly, as you mentioned was the time sensitive one. That's really going to be one of the bigger ones from a business standpoint. The engineers are now going to be able to write applications for processing data at the edge, so that they don't lose. In this environment, three seconds is the difference between life and death. I'm kind of exaggerating but kind of not. If you're missing an alert in a couple seconds where you can't shut down a gas-leak valve where there's potential for explosion, those seconds are the difference between boom, or we're all good guys, it was just an alert. >> Another classic example here is autonomous vehicles, as well. You can't run that from the cloud, right? You've got to do that locally. Last question, Joe, is Cisco differentiation. Obviously you come at it from a position of networking strength, you mentioned that in your opening comments but give us the bumper sticker on why Cisco. >> I think that the big reason why Cisco is unique in the IOT world is, number one, we're not trying to be everything to everybody. We're trying to create a safe and secure, reliable network. Number two, though, is our ecosystem. So we have a large partner ecosystem. We're expanding it into the OT world. We've got specific products for those OT partners where they can imbed our networking technology into their solutions and systems that they're putting together. (clears throat) Lastly is, honestly, what we're doing here with DevNet. Nobody in this world other than Cisco has DevNet with the network, with the ecosystem. When you put that trifecta together, it's unstoppable. And so being able to bring together IT and OT, only we can do that with those three things. >> So I think Susie said yesterday, Stu, 600,000 engineers that are trained on coding Cisco infrastructure. It's going to be interesting to see how the OT folks pick up on that, and what the adoption is there. Joe Malenfant, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, it was great to have you. >> Thank you, gentlemen, I appreciate it. >> Really, a pleasure. Okay, Stu and I will be right back. Lisa Martin is also in the house. You're watching theCUBE. We're live from Cisco Live in San Diego. We'll be right back. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, live here, in Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live! Europe 2019, I'm John Furrier my co-host Dave Vellante, our next guest is Liz Centoni, Senior Vice President, General Manager of the IoT group at Cisco, formerly as part of the engineering team, Cube alumni, great to see you again, thanks for coming on! >> Great to be here, always good to see you guys. >> So you're in the center of a lot of news, IOT, edge of the network, redefining networking on stage, we heard that, talk about your role in the organization of Cisco and the products that you now have and what's goin' on here. >> So I run our IoT Business group. Similar to what we do with EN, data center, all of that, it has the engineering team, product management team, we build products, solutions, that includes hardware, software, silicon, take 'em out to market, really in IoT it's about you know, the technology conversation comes second. It's like, what can you deliver in terms of use case, and business outcomes that comes first. And it's more about what technology can enable that, so the conversations we have with customers are around, how can you really solve my kind of real problems. Everything from, I want to grow my top line, I want to get closer to my customers, because the closer I get to my customers, I know them better, so obviously, I can turn around and grow my top line. And I want to optimize everything from internal process to external process, because just improves my bottom line at the end of the day. >> So a lot of news happening here around your team, but first, talk about redefining networking in context to your part because, edge of the network has always been, what is, you know, edge of the network, now it's extending further, IoT is one of those things that people are looking at from a digitization standpoint, turning on more intelligence, with a factory floor or other areas, how is IoT changing and what is it today? >> So you gave an example of you know, digitizing something like a factory floor. Right, so let's talk about that. So what do customers on the factory floor want to do? They've already automated a number of this factory floors, but what they want to do is get more efficient. They want better EL, they want better quality. They want to bring security all the way down to the plant floor, 'cause the more and more you connect things, the more you've just expanded your threat surface out pretty significantly. So they want to bring security down to the plant floor because these are environments that are not brand new they had brown field equipment they had green field equipment. They want to be able to have control over what device gets on the network with things like device profiling. They want to be able to do things like, create zones so that they can do that with things like network segmentation so when and if an attack does happen, they can contain the attack as much as possible alright? Now, what you need in terms of a factory floor, automation, security, to be able to scale, to have that flexibility, that's no different than what you have in the enterprise already. I mean we've been working with our IT and enterprise customers for years, and you know, they, it's about automation and security, it's about simplicity. Why not extend that out, the talent that IT has, the capability that it has, it really is a connective tissue that you're extending your network from that carpeted space, or your clean space into outside of the office, or into the non-carpeted space so it's perfect in terms of saying, it's about extending the network into the non-traditional space that probably IT doesn't go into today. >> Well right and it's a new constituency, right? So, how are you sort of forging new relationships, new partnerships, what is, describe what that's like, with the operations technology folks. >> I mean at Cisco, we have great partnerships with the IT organization, right? I mean we've got more than 840,000 customers and our sales teams, our product teams do a good job in terms of listening to customers. We're talking more and more to the line of business, we're talking more and more to the operational teams. Because at the end of the day, I want to be candid. You know, going to a manufacturing floor, I've never run a plant floor, right? There are not very many people in the team who can say, I've been a plant manager before. They know their processes, they're concerned about 24/7 operation, hey I want to be in compliance with the fire marshal. Physical safety of my workers. We come in with that IP knowledge, that security knowledge that they need. It's a partnership, I mean people talk about IT and OT convergence, usually, convergence means that, mm, somebody's going to lose their job, this is more and IT and OT partnership. And most of these digitization efforts, usually come in for the CIO level or a chief digitization officer, we've got good relationships there already. The second part is, Cisco's been in this for quite some time our teams already have relationships at the plant level at the grid level, operator level, you know, in the oil and gas area, but we need to build more and more of that. Because building more and more of that is really understanding what business problems are they looking to solve? Then we can bring the technology to it. >> Liz, what's that in the enablement, you mentioned partnership, 'cause that's a good point, 'cause people think, oh, someone wins, someone loses, the partnership is you're enabling, you're bringing new capability into the physical world, you know, from wind farms to whatever. What does the enablement look like, what are some of the things that happen when you guys come into these environments that are being redefined and re-imagined or for the first time? >> Yeah I would say, you know, I'd use what our customer said this morning. And what he said was, IT has the skills that I need alright? They have the IP skills, they have the security skills. These are all the things that I need. I want my guys to focus on kind of business processes. Around things that they know best. And so, we're working with IT as part of what we're putting this extended enterprise, extending Intent-Based Networking to the IoT edge means, IT already knows our tools, our capabilities, we're now saying, we can extend that, let's go out, figure out what those use cases are together, this is why we're working with, not just the IT, we're working with our channel partners as well, who can enable these implementations on IoT implementations work well. Part of this is also a constant, you know, learning from each other. We learned from the operational teams is that, hey you can start a proof of concept really well, but you can't really take it to deployment unless you address things around the complexity, the scale and the security, that's where we can come in and help. >> And you can't just come in and throw your switches and routers over the fence and say, okay, here you go. You have to develop specific solutions for this world right? And can you talk about that a little bit? And tell us what you're doing here? >> Absolutely, so, if you look at the networking, industrial networking portfolio that we have, it's built on the same catalyst, ISR, wireless APs or firewall, but they're more customized for this non-carpeted space, right? You've got to take into consideration that these are not sitting in a controlled environment. So, we test them for temperature, for shock, for vibration, but it's also built on the same software, so we're talking about the same software platform, you get the same automation features, you get the same analytics features, it's managed by DNA center, so, even though we're customizing the hardware for this environment, the software platform that you get, is pretty much the same, so IT can come in and manage both those environments, but IT also needs an understanding of what's the operational team looking to solve for? >> Liz, I want to ask you about the psychology of the buyer in this market. Because OT, they're running stuff that's just turnin' on, put in the lightbulb, make it work, what I got to deploy something? So their kind of expectations might be different, can you share what the expectations are, for the kind of experience that they want to have with that? >> I use utility as a great example. And our customer from Ennogie, I think explained this really well. This is thing that we learned from our customers right? I haven't been in a sub station, I've been in a data center multiple times, but I haven't been in a sub station, so when they're talking about automating sub station, we work with customers, we've been doing this over the last 10 years, we've been working with that Ennogie team for the last two years, they taught us really, how they secure and manage in these environments. You're not going to find a CCIE in this environment. So when you want to send somebody out to like 60,000 sub stations, and you want to check on, hey do I still have VPN connectivity? They're not going to be able to troubleshoot it. What we did is based on the customer's ask, put a green light on their LED that shines green, all the technician does is look at it and says, it's okay. If not, they call back in terms of troubleshooting it. It was just a simple example of where, it's different in terms of how they secure and manage and the talent that they have is different than what's in the IT space, so you've got to make sure that your products also cover what the operational teams need, because you're not dealing with the CCIE or the IP expert. >> So it's the classic market fit, product market fit for what they're expecting. >> Correct. >> LEDs, you can't go wrong with a green light, I mean. (laughter) >> You know, everybody goes, that's such an easy thing, it's like well, it was not that perceptive to us. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned as you've moved from Cisco engineering out to the new frontier on the edge here, what are the learnings that you've seen, obviously growing mark early, it's only going to get large and more complicated, more automation, more AI, more things, what's your learnings, what have you seen so far that's a takeaway? >> So I'll say, I'm still in Cisco engineering. The reason we're in IoT is that, a secure and reliable network, that's the foundation of any IoT deployment alright? You can go out and buy the best sensor, buy the best application buy the best middleware, but if you don't have that foundation, that's secure and reliable, those IoT projects are not going to take off, so it's pretty simple, everyone's network is the enabler of their business outcome, and that's why we're in it. So this is really about extending that network out, but at the same time, understanding what are we looking to solve for, right? So in many cases, we work with third party partners, 'cause some of them know these domains much better than we do, but we know the IP, we are the IP and the security experts, and we bring that to the table better than anybody else. >> And over the top, DevNet showing here for the second year that we've covered it, here in DevNet zone, that when you have that secure network that's programmable, really cool things can develop on top of it, that's a great opportunity. >> Yeah, this is, I'm super excited that we now have an IoT DevNet. You know, as part of our entire Cisco DevNet. Half a million dev-opers you know, Susie Wee and team done a fabulous job. There's more and more dev-opers going to be starting to develop at the IoT edge, at the edge of the network, right? So when you look at that as, our platforms today with IRX on top of it, make this a software platform that dev-opers can actually build applications to, it's really about, you know, we're ready, ISVs and dev-opers unleashing those applications at the IoT edge. And with Susie making that, you know, available in terms of the tools, the resources, the sandbox that you can get, it's like, we expect to see more and more dev-opers building those applications at the edge. >> We got to talk about your announcements, right, so. >> Oh yeah, exciting set of announcements. >> What's the hard news? >> So we launched four things today as part of extending IBN, or Intent-Based Networking to the IoT edge, the first one is, we've got three new Cisco-validated designs. So think of a validated design as enabling our customers to actually accelerate their deployments, so our engineering teams try to mimic, as much as possible, a customer's environment. And they do this pre-integration, pre-testing of our products, third party products. And we actually put 'em out by industry. So we have three new ones out there for manufacturing, for utilities, and for remote and mobile assets, that's one. The second one is we're launching two new hardware platforms, a next-generation catalyst industrial ethernet switch, it's for modularity of interfaces, and it's got nine expansion packs. The idea is, make it as flexible as possible for a customer's deployment. Because these boxes might sit in an environment not just for three years like in a campus, they could sit there for five, for seven, for 10 years. So as you know, they, adding on, giving them that flexibility, they can be a base system and just change the expansion modules, we also launched our next-generation industrial router. It actually is the industry's probably first and only full IPV Six-capable industrial router. And it's got, again flexibility of interfaces, we have LTE, we have fiber, we have copper, you want dual LTE you can actually slap an expansion pack right on top of it. When 5G comes in, you just take the LTE module out, you put 5G, so it's 5G ready. >> Expansions on there. >> And it's based on IOSXC, it's managed by DNA Center, and it's edge-enabled, so they run IOX, you can build your applications, and load 'em on. So we can build 'em, third parties can build 'em. >> And the DevNet piece here as well. >> And the DevNet piece is the third one where we now have, you know, an IoT dev-oper center in the DevNet zone, so with all the tools that are available, it enables dev-opers and ISVs to actually build on top of IOX today. In fact, we actually have more than a couple of three examples that are already doing that. And the fourth thing is, we depend on a large ecosystem of channel partners, so we've launched an IoT specialization training program to enable them to actually help our customers' implementation go faster. >> Mhm. >> So those are the four things that we brought together. The key thing for us was, designing these for scale, flexibility, and security. >> And are these capabilities available today is that right? >> Absolutely, in fact, if you go in, we're shipping in two weeks! And you can see them at the innovation showcase, it's actually very cool. >> I was going to mention, you brought up the ecosystem, glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about how that's developing, I could only imagine new sets of names coming out of the industry in terms of building on these IOTs since this demand for IOT, it's an emerging market in terms of newness, with a lot of head room, so what's the ecosystem look like, is there a pattern, is it ISVs, VARs, does it take the shape of the classic ecosystem or is it a new set of characters or, what's the makeup of the ecosystem? >> Yeah, it's I would say it's, in many ways, if you've been in the IoT world for some time, you'll say, you know, it's not like there's a whole new set of characters. Yes, you have more cloud players in there, you probably have more SIs in there, but it's been like, the distributors are in there, the machine-builders, the OT platforms, these are folks who've been doing this for a long time. It's more around, how do you partner, and where do you monetize? We know where you know, the value we bring in, we rely on, we work very closely with those OT partners, machine-builders, SIs, the cloud partners, to go to market and deliver this. You're right, the market's going to evolve, because the whole new conversation is around data. What do I collect, what I compute at the edge? Where do I route it to, should I take it to my on-premise's data centers, should I take it to the cloud? Who gets control over that data, how do I make sure that I have control over the data as the customer, and I have control over who gets to see it. So I think this will be a evolving conversation. This is something we're enabling with one of our Kinetic platforms, which are not launched, it's already launched in terms of enabling customers to have control over the data and manage the data as well. >> And bringing all the portfolio of Cisco security analytics, management to the table, that puts anything in the world that has power and connectivity to be a device to connect into a system, this is the, I mean how obvious can it be? It's going to be huge! >> It's great that you think it's obvious, that's exactly what we're tryin' to tell our customers-- >> How to do it-- >> Well this is about extending this out. >> Yeah, how do we do it's the playbook right? So, each business has its own unique, there's no general purpose IoT is there? >> Correct. >> It's pretty much on a custom custom-- well thanks for coming on Liz, appreciate it. Want to ask you one final question. You know, I was really impressed with Karen had a great session, Karen Walker had a great session yesterday, impact with women, we interviewed you at Grave Hopper in 2015. Cisco's doing amazing work, can you take a minute to talk about some of the things that Cisco's doing around women in computing, women in STEM, just great momentum, great success story and great leadership. >> I would say look at our leadership at Chuck's level, and I think that's a great example in terms of, he brings people on depending on what they can, what they bring to the table, right? They just happen to be a lot of women out there, and the reality is, I work for a company that believes in inclusion, whether it's gender, race, different experiences, different thoughts, different perspectives because, that's where truly, in terms of, you can bring in the culture that drives that innovation. I've been sponsoring our Women in Science and Engineering for I can't remember, the last four or five years. It's a community that continues to grow. And, the reality is, we don't sit in there and talk about, you know, woe is me, and all the things that are happening, what we talk about is, hey what are the cool new technologies that are out there, how do I get my hands on 'em? And yeah, there are, we talk about some things where women are a little reticent and shy to do, so what we learn from other peoples' experiences, many time the guys are very interesting, so what do you sit down there and talk, and I said trust me it's not like, a whining and moaning session, it's more in terms of where we learn from each other. >> Peers talking and sharing ideas-- >> Absolutely. >> Of innovation and building things. >> Yep, and we've got, you know, we look around and we've got a great set of woman leaders throughout the company at every single level in every function. It's great to be there, we continue to sponsor our Grace Hopper, we have some of the biggest presence at Grace Hopper, we do so many other things like connected women within the company. It's just a, I would say, fabulous place to be. >> You guys do a lot of great things for society, great company, great leadership, thank you for doing all of that, it's phenomenal, we love covering it too, so, we'll be at the cloud now today in Silicon Valley, Women in Data Science at Stanford, and among other great things. >> It's definitely a passion of ours. >> Yeah. (talking over each other) >> Awesome, that's great to hear. >> Thanks for coming on, this is theCUBE, live coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco Live! 2018, back with more after this short break, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live, Cube here in Las Vegas for AWS re:Invent. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Dave Vellante. Day three of wall to wall coverage, holding our voices together, excited for our next guest, Shayn Hawthorne, general manager at AWS, for the exciting project around the Ground Station, partnership with Lockheed Martin. Really kind of outside the box, announced on Tuesday, not at the keynote, but this is a forward thinking real project which satellites can be provisioned like cloud computing resources. Totally innovative, and will change the nature of edge computing, feeding connectivity to anything. So, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you guys for having me. You're right, my voice is going out this week too. We've been doing a lot of talking. (John laughs) >> Great service. This is really compelling, 'cause it changes the nature of the network. You can feed connectivity, 'cause power and connectivity drive everything. Power, you got battery. Connectivity, you got satellite. Totally obvious, now that you look at it, but, not before this. Where did it come from? How did it all start? >> You know, it came from listening to our customers. Our customers have been talking with us and they had a number of challenges in getting the data off of their satellites and down to the ground. So, we listened to these customers and we listened to the challenges they were experiencing in getting their data to the ground, having access to ground stations, having the ability at the network level, to move the data around the world quickly to where they wanted to process it. And then also, having complex business process logic and other things that were required to help them run their satellite downlinks and uplinks. And then finally, the ability to actually have AWS services right there where the data came down into the cloud, so that you could do great things with that data within milliseconds of it hitting the ground. >> So it's a essentially satellite as a service with a back end data capability, data ingestion, analytics, and management capability. That, how'd that idea come about? I mean, it just underscores the scale of AWS. And I'm thinking about other things that you might be able to, where'd the idea come from? How was it germinated? >> Well and actually, let me just say one thing, we actually would call it Ground Station as the service. It's the Ground Station on the surface of the earth that communicates with the satellite. It allows us to get the data off the satellite or send commands up to it. And so, like I was saying, we came up the idea by talking to our customers, and so we went into, I think this is an incredible part of working at Amazon, because we actually follow through with our leadership principals. We worked backwards from the customer. We actually put together a press release and a frequently asked questions document, a PR/FAQ, in a traditional six page format. And we started working it through our leadership and it got all the way to the point that Andy and the senior leadership team within AWS made the decision that they were going to support our idea and the concept and the architecture that we had come up with to meet these customers' requirements, we actually were able to get to that by about March of 2018. By the end of March, Andy had even had us go in and talk with Jeff. He gave us the thumbs up as well, and after six months, we've already procured 24 antennas. We've already built two Ground Stations in the United States and we've downlinked over hundreds of contacts with satellites, bringing Earth imagery down and other test data to prove that this system works. Get it ready for preview. >> It's unbelievable, because you're basically taking the principals of AWS, which is eliminating the heavy lifting, applying that to building Ground Stations, presumably, right, so, the infrastructure that you're building out, do you have partners that you're working with, are there critical players there, that are enabling this? >> Yeah, it's really neat. We've actually had some really great partnerships, both with helping us build AWS Ground Station, as well as partners that helped us learn what the customers need. Let me tell you, first off, about the partnership that we've had with Lockheed Martin to develop a new innovative antenna system that will collaboratively come together with the parabolic reflectors that AWS Ground Station uses. They've been working on this really neat idea that gives them ability to downlink data all over the entire United States in a very resilient way, which means if some of their Ground Stations antennas in Verge don't work, due to man made reasons or due to natural occurrences, then we're actually able to use the rest of the network to still continue to downlink data. And then, we complimentary bring in AWS Astra for certain types of downlinks and then also to provide uplink commanding to other satellites. The other customer partnership that we've worked with was working with the actual customers who are going to use AWS Ground Station, like DigitalGlobe, Black Sky, Capella SAR, HawkEye 360, who all provided valuable inputs to us about exactly what do they need in a Ground Station. They need the ability to rapidly downlink data, they need the ability to pay by the minute so that there are actually able to use variable expense to pay for satellite downlinks instead of capital expenses to go out and build it. And then by doing that, we're able to offer them a product that's 80% cheaper than if they'd had to go out and build a complete network similar to what we built. And, they're able to, like I said before, access great AWS services like Rekognition, or SageMaker, so that they can make sense of the data that they bring down to the Earth. >> It's a big idea and I'm just sort of curious as to, how and if you, sort of, validated it. How'd ya increase the probability that it was actually going to, you know, deliver a business return? Can you talk about that process? >> Well, we were really focused on validating that we could meet customer challenges and really give them the data securely and reliably with great redundancy. So we validated, first off by, we built our antennas and the Ground Stations in the previous software. We finished over a month and a half ago, and we've been rigorously testing it with our customer partners and then letting them validate that the information we've provided back to them was 100% as good as what they would've received on their own network, and we tested it out, and we've actually got a number of pictures and images downloaded over at our kiosk that were all brought in on AWS Ground Station, and its a superb products over there. >> So Shayn, how does it work? You write this press release, this working backwards document, describe that process. Was that process new to you? Had you done it at other companies? How did you find it? Was it a useful process, obviously it was, 'cause you got the outcome you're looking for, but, talk a little bit more about that approach. >> Yeah, it's actually very cool, I've only been at AWS for a year and a half. And so, I would say that my experience at AWS so far completely validates working backwards from customers. We were turned on to the idea by talking to our customers and the challenges they said. I started doing analysis after the job was assigned to me by Dave Nolton, my boss, and I started putting together the first draft of our PR/FAQ, started engaging with customers immediately. Believe it or not, we went through 28 iterations of the PR/FAQ before we even got to Andy. Everybody in our organization took part in helping to make it better, add in, ask hard questions, ensure that we were really thinking this idea through and that we were obsessing on the customer. And then after we got to Andy, and we got through approving that, it probably went through another 28 iterations before we got to Jeff. And then we went through talking with him. He asked additional hard questions to make sure that we were doing the right for the customer and that we were putting together the right kind of product. And finally we've been iterating it on it ever since until we launched it couple of days ago. >> Sounds like you were iterating, raising the bar, and it resonated with customers. >> Totally. And even as part of getting out of it-- >> That's Amazon's language of love. >> And then your engineering resource, you know, if people are asking you hard questions, you obviously need engineering folks to validate that it's doable. At what point do you get that engineering resource, how does that all work? >> Well, it's neat. In my division, Region Services Division, we actually were supporting it completely from within the division, all the way until we got approval from Andy. And then we actually went in and started hiring very good skills. To show you what kind of incredible people we have at Amazon, we only had to hire about 10% space expertise from outside of the company. We were actually able to bring together 80-90% of the needed skills to build AWS Ground Station from people who've been working at Amazon.com and AWS. And we came together, we really learned quickly, we iterated, failed fast, put things together, changed it. And we were able to deliver the product in time. The whole cloth made from our own expertise. >> So just to summarize, from idea to actual, we're going to do this, how long did that take? >> I'd say that took about three months. From idea to making a decision, three months. From decision to have a preview product that we could launch at re:Invent, six months. >> That's unbelievable. >> It is. >> If you think about something of this scope. >> And it was a joy, I mean it was an incredible to be a part of something like this. It was the best work I've ever done in my life. >> Yeah, space is fun. >> It is. >> Shayn, thanks for coming on theCUBE, sharing your story and insight, we love this. We're going to keep following it. And we're going see you guys at the Public Sector Summits, and all the events you guys are at, so, looking forward to seeing and provisioning some satellite. >> I'm looking forward to showing you what we do next. So thank you for having me. >> Great. We'll get a sneak peak. >> Congratulations. >> This is theCUBE here in Las Vegas, we'll be back with more coverage after this short break. (futuristic music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's eco system partners. >> Welcome back, this is VMworld 2018, you're watching theCUBE. With Justin Warren, I'm Stu Miniman and we've got a nice presence here front of the VM village, right next to the solutions expo we're over the three days. We've got about 95 guests and 75 interviews. Happen to welcome back to the program Lynn Lucas is the CMO of Cohesity. People are commenting a little bit about our presence here but, I don't know, I think Cohesity has a little bit of a bigger footprint and a few more people have been talking about you there so. First of all, welcome back to the program. >> Well thanks very much for having us again. We've been so excited to be here at VMworld. So obviously of course, customers are the core of our business and yeah, we thought we'd make a little bit of noise the first night. >> Yeah, a little bit. The booth is hopping, people are lining up. You usually have some games you're doing. I know I'd seen it at Cisco Live. Maybe give people just a little taste of what Cohesity's doing at the show. >> Well sure, so you know, we do have a great amazing marketing team here and they've got some cool games going on in the booth but what it's really about is bringing folks in and talking about how we can help them with their, consolidating their data silos and so we've also got eight demo stations in there, live theater presentations, Adam Rasner, who was here on the program earlier. >> From AutoNations, yeah. >> From AutoNations, CIO is speaking again today and what we're here to do is really talk to customers about how we can help them really modernize their data center and move into a hybrid cloud world. >> Yeah, it's always interesting, at VMworld there's you know, customers, I want to spend a bunch of time understanding how to use even more the things that I've got. But then there's also the new stuff. So Cohesity, you have a mix of that. New product announcement Helios, maybe bring us through what customers are really digging into and bring us up to speed on Helios. >> Yeah absolutely, thank you for mentioning that. Well, there's a broader trend which of course you guys have been covering which is data fueling business, but data's fragmented. It's in all these silos. Cohesity's been addressing that for the last several years with Cohesity Data Platform, Hyper converged secondary storage. Helios now adds to that offering and provides a single global unified view of all your secondary data and applications. It's a sass space service but it's not just a dashboard or a monitoring. It is active management which is really going to bring about great efficiencies for the IT organization. >> I was speaking to your CEO, I think it was yesterday we had a briefing and he walked me through some of that and I actually spoke with your customer AutoNation last week as well and they gave me an update on things. And it became quite clear to me that I'd missed something I misunderstood about Cohesity that it wasn't just about data protection. That's just sort of the first thing that you do. And AutoNation mentioned this as well, that they'd started using Cohesity for data protection but then they realized that, well actually I could use this for secondary data storage and they'd already had the platform, they bought it a couple of years ago. And these additional features just arrive on the platform. So is Helios also one of these features that just gets added to something that you've already made an investment in? >> So thanks for kind of calling out those use cases. So Helios is actually available as a freemium offer right now and it's intended for customers that have multiple sites whether those sites be you know LA, Tokyo, Dubai. But also in the Cloud because Cohesity offers capabilities if you're in Adjure, if you're in AWS, and now Google Cloud as well. So our new freemium edition of Helios is going to give that global view, that ability for IT to at a glance see how all of their secondary data and apps are working, do they have any capacity needs coming up, and the ability to role out automated policies globally. And so this is where we hear a lot of interest from IT because infrastructure really frankly has been so primitive right. When you think about it most of it architected in the last century. And they spend so much time just trying to keep thing up to date and keep the complexity down. And Helios offers a single way to manage all of that. And there's a lot more coming in Helios overtime because it's got machine learning capability built into it so I think you're going to see just the beginning right now and a long list of things that'll be coming out over time that will really help IT advance their operational efficiency. >> Yeah Lynn, definitely, Multi cloud is one of the top things we've been seeing at this show and it's been short. The VMworld's position, their partnership with AWS and some of the other providers. Help us understand how Cohesity lives in this multi cloud world, the things like the VMC and all those, how do those tie together? >> Yeah and great questions. So you know, customers, you said, they're in a multi cloud world and what most organizations are understanding is that two things, one, they've got to choose the cloud for the right set of workloads, right. It's not a fantasy. It can be more expensive if it's not thought about in terms of the use cases that they're looking for. Obvious;y has a mass advantage in terms of elastic scalability, compute power. And the other thing I think that now is becoming more to the forefront is that the cloud is created for IT just has many silos. And if you're a multi cloud organization which most are, well now you've got silos of different types between the two clouds. So Cohesity is creating with Helios, a single operating model across any environment whether that be Cloud, Core or Edge. And that is really what we aim to do is create that invisible kind of layer so that IT can focus more on helping the business. You know, I was talking to a prospect here just a couple of days ago and because we're so today instant gratification oriented the CEO just says, hey, I need that file, or I need this deleted maybe because of GDPR. And the IT teams are obviously struggling with how is this happening when I have such complex infrastructure Silos. Helios is the first step in helping to solve that. >> Yeah, Lynn, I'm wondering, do you know, there's so many players that want to be that platform across the multi cloud. VMware put their case forward is to how they do this. You know Microsoft has pretty good positioning when we talk about hybrid Cloud. Can you speak to how Cohesity can be across these environments, partnerships, alliances, eco system, help put this together because no single company can do it all? >> Totally agree with you. I mean I don't think any vendor today could operate on their own. It is an eco system. So first and foremost, VMware is our partner. And the Cloud providers are our partners along with many other companies that are here, Nutanix, Pure. We operate in the secondary world, right. The secondary realm first and foremost and that's the 80 percent of the enterprise data and infrastructure that hasn't had a lot of innovation. You pointed out, it started with data protection. There's a been a lot of pain points there, but it extends to file, to test dev to analytics and we really provide that complement to VMware for customers that are looking for a way to modernize their data center where Cohesity can back up, instantly restore VM's in the case of a disaster. Also move them up to the Cloud for test dev, then spin them back when they're ready to come back into production. So we're a real complement to the primary environment. >> I wanted to get into that a little bit Lynn. So one of the things when I'm talking to vendors and particularly with customers, they sometimes take a solution to remove some pain points. But then once they've actually got something in place there's all of these new possibilities that opens up for them and particularly around the silo aspect. Could you maybe give us an example of a customer who's been able to realize a new opportunity once they use Cohesity to remove some of that siloing and now they can build things on this platform that they've purchased? >> Yeah and so great questions. So one of our customers, you talked about AutoNation, but let me bring up another one. Manhattan Associates, large organization, software organization, also started with Cohesity with data protection and then realized, we can use the same platform for consolidating file services. It allowed them to instead of adding Opex in the form of additional teams to manage their very massively growing environment to reinvest those teams in actually a new model for the business which is to bring out more capability for the business in a faster time than they would of otherwise. So a lot of what we talk about is the operational simplicity that we bring. For every business, what they invest that in or reinvest those resources is going to be different but it enables them in that case to do more in their core business which is serving their manufacturing supply chain customers in a more efficient way. >> And that's quite important I think for IT teams to be able to join with the business and to show that they're actually providing new value rather than being seen as just a cost center which we hear that from IT teams al the time. They're quite sick of being, well you're just a cost, you're not involved in strategic decisions that are important to the business. So having a platform something like this, means that you can be part of those conversations. You can get a seat at the table and be involved in creating new value for the business. >> Yeah absolutely, I mean the analyst community's been talking about this for a long time. I know right, that most of IT unfortunately has been investing, I think it's 80 percent, maybe 80 percent plus, and just keeping everything running and the business gets so frustrated and creates shadow IT. Another customer of ours, so Verizon Subsidiary, XO Communications, another example where instead of having to I believe, invest in seven more folks just to manage their data protection and their file storages, once they were able to invest in Cohesity because of the simplicity of not having so many vendors, not having the complexity of managing silos of infrastructure, they took that same budget and were able to invest it in doing more for their government clients. >> Lynn, wonder if you could give is some of the company updates? Number of customers, you know, we talked a little bit about the product but just kind of step it back at a corporate level. >> Yeah, so the solution's really resonating. We had the good fortune to put out some news about our physical year. We grew 300 percent year over year in revenue which is I think fantastic growth for any company. We're certainly super pleased that the confidence our customers have in us. We saw a 76 percent growth in new customers Q4 over Q3 and this is primarily folks that I think are seeing the benefit of moving to a modern, scale out platform for data protection. As you mentioned, there are others now starting to discover file services. We feel that we haven't even tapped that. And these are, we've mentioned some customers, but others like Hyatt, US Air force. So there are some very large enterprise and government customers that have seen the benefits in the secondary world of adopting the new scale out hyper converged platform. >> That's great. Last thing, we were talking about multi Cloud. I think you had some news you wanted to share about where else we might be seeing Cohesity in theCUBE. >> That's right and so let's break the news here. So we are super pleased to have theCUBE at Microsoft Ignite in the Cohesity booth. We are very excited about that opportunity. Microsoft and as you're obviously being a very strong partners with Cohesity. We do a lot of work with them. And we're excited to bring theCUBE to the Microsoft customer set and your global audience watching worldwide in about a months time I think. >> Yeah Lynn, absolutely. We really appreciate the partnership. And for those who don't know, we love to cover all the shows. We do over 110 shows. Microsoft shows have been on the top of our list and we've talked with Microsoft, we have lots of guests on the program from Microsoft. We've had Fonti Adele on, we've have Brad Anderson on. But it, through the partnership with Cohesity we're there, we're going to have lots of editorial guests from Microsoft, from the ecosystem, our independent coverage. But we have Cohesity as our host. So thanks again. >> Happy to have you guys there and make the opportunity. Microsoft obviously a massive player in the IT ecosystem and it's important that you guys cover what's going on at that show. >> Okay, great and so of course you can always check out at the Cohesity website all the places they're being. To find where we'll be, check out theCUBE.net. For Justin Warren, I'm Stu Miniman. Always great to catch up with you Lynn Lucas. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> And we'll be back with lots more. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Washington DC, it's theCube, covering the AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, and its ecosystem partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back everyone it's theCube's exclusive coverage here, day two of the Amazon Web Sources public sector summit. This is the public sector across the globe. This is their reinvent, this is their big event. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and also David Vellante's been here doing interviews. Our next guest is, we got Doug Van Dyke, he's the director of U.S. Federal Civilian and Non Profit Sectors of the group, welcome to theCube, good to see you. >> John, thank you very much for having me. >> So you've been in the federal, kind of game, and public sector for a while. You've known, worked with Theresa, at Microsoft before she came to Reinvent. >> 15 years now. >> How is she doing? >> She's doing great, we saw her on main stage yesterday. Force of nature, love working with her, love working for her. This is, like you were saying, this is our re-invent here in D.C. and 14,000 plus, 15,000 registrations, she's on the top of her game. >> What I'm really impressed with her and your team as well, is the focus on growth, but innovation, right? it's not just about, knock down the numbers and compete. Certainly you're competing against people who are playing all kinds of tricks. You got Oracle out there, you got IBM, we've beaten at the CIA. It's a street battle out there in this area in D.C. You guys are innovative, in that you're doing stuff with non-profits, you got mission driven, you're doing the educate stuff, so it's not just a one trick pony here. Take us through some of the where you guys heads are at now, because you're successful, everyone's watching you, you're not small anymore. What's the story? >> So, I think the differentiator for us is our focus on the customers. You know, we've got a great innovation story at the Department of Veterans Affairs with vets.gov. So five years ago if a veteran went out to get the services that the government was going to provide them, they've have to pick from 200 websites. It just wasn't to navigate through 200 websites. So, the innovation group at Veteran's Affairs, the digital services team, figured out, let's pull this all together under a single portal with vets.gov. It's running on AWS, and now veterans have a single interface into all the services they want. >> Doug, one of the things I've been impressed, my first year coming to this. I've been to many other AWS shows, but you've got all these kind of overlapping communities. Of course, the federal government, plus state and local, education. You've got this civilian agencies, so give us a little bit of flavor about that experience here at the show. What trends your hearing from those customers. >> So what's great for me is I've been here almost six and a half years, and I've seen the evolution. And you know, there were the early customers who were just the pioneers like Tom Soderstrom, from JPL, who was on main stage. And then we saw the next wave where there were programs that needed a course correction, like Center for Medicare Medicaid with Healthcare.gov. Where Amazon Web Services came in, took over, helped them with the MarketPlace, you know, get that going. And now we're doing some great innovative things at CMS, aggregating data from all 50 states, about 75 terabytes, so they can do research on fraud, waste, and abuse that they couldn't do before. So we're helping our customers innovate on the cloud, and in the cloud, and it's been a great opportunity. >> Oh my God, I had the pleasure of interviewing Tom Soderstrom two years ago. >> Okay. >> Everybody gets real excited when you talk about space. It's easy to talk about innovation there, but you know, talk about innovation throughout the customers, because some people will look at it, and be like, oh come on, government and their bureaucracy, and they're behind. What kind of innovation are you hearing from your customers? >> So there's an exciting with Department of Energy. They, you know there's a limited amount of resources that you have on premise. Well, they're doing research on the large Hadron Collider in Cern, Switzerland. And they needed to double the amount of capacity that they had on premise. So, went to the AWS cloud, fired up 50,000 cores, brought the data down, and they could do research on it. And so, we're making things possible that couldn't be done previously. >> What are some of the examples that government entities and organizations are doing to create innovation in the private sector? Cause the private sector's been the leader to the public sector, and know you're seeing people starting to integrate it. I mean, half the people behind us, that are exhibiting here, are from the commercial side doing business in the public sector. And public sector doing, enabling action in the private sector. Talk about that dynamic, cause it's not just public sector. >> Right. >> Can you just share your? >> These public, private. Great example with NOAA, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration. They have a new program called NEXRAD. It's the next generation of doppler radar. They have 160 stations across the world, collecting moisture, air pressure, all of the indicators that help predict the weather. They partner with us at AWS to put this data out, and through our open data program. And then organizations like the Weather Bug can grab that information, government information, and use it to build the application that you have on your I-Phone that predicts the weather. So you know whether to bring an umbrella to work tomorrow. >> So you're enabling the data from, or stuff from the public, for private, entrepreneurial activity? >> Absolutely. >> Talk about the non-profits. What's going on there? Obviously, we heard som stuff on stage with Teresa. The work she's showcasing, a lot of the non-profit. A lot of mission driven entrepreneurships happening. Here in D.C, it's almost a Silicon Valley like dynamic, where stuff that was never funded before is getting funded because they can do Cloud. They can stand it up pretty quickly and get it going. So, you're seeing kind of a resurgence of mission driven entrepreneurships. What is the nonprofit piece of it look now for AWS? How do you talk about that? >> Sure. Well again, one of the areas that I'm really passionate about being here, and being one of the people who helped start our nonprofit vertical inside of AWS, we now have over 12, I'm sorry, 22,000 nonprofits using AWS to keep going. And the mission of our nonprofit vertical is just to make sure that no nonprofit would ever fail for lack of infrastructure. So we partnered with Tech Soup, which is an organization that helps vet and coordinate our Cloud credits. So nonprofits, small nonprofit organizations can go out through Tech Soup, get access to credits, so they don't have to worry about their infrastructure. And you know we.. >> Free credits? >> Those credits, with the Tech Soup membership, they get those, yeah, and using the word credit, it's more like a grant of AWS cloud. >> You guys are enabling almost grants. >> Yes, cloud grants. Not cash grants, but cloud grants. >> Yeah, yeah great. So, how is that converting for you, in your mind? Can you share some examples of some nonprofits that are successful? >> Sure. A great presentation, and I think it was your last interview. A game changer. Where these smaller nonprofits can have a really large impact. And, but then we're also working with some of the larger nonprofits too. The American Heart Association, that built their precision medicine platform to match genotype, phenotype information, so we can further cardiovascular research. They have this great mission statement, they want to reduce cardiovascular disease by 20 percent by 2020. And we're going to help them do that. >> You guys are doing a great job, I got to say. It's been fun to watch, and now, we've been covering you guys for the past two years now, here at the event. A lot more coming on, in D.C. The CIA went in a few years ago. Certainly a shot heard around the cloud. That's been well documented. The Department of Defense looking good off these certain indicators. But, what's going on in the trends in the civilian agencies? Can you take a minute to give an update on that? >> Yeah, so I started earlier saying I've seen the full spectrum. I saw the very beginning, and then I've seen all the way to the end. Where, I think it was three years ago at this event, I talked to Joe Piva, who is the former CIO for the Department of Commerce ITA, the International Trade Association. He had data center contracts coming up for renewal. And he made a really brave decision to cancel those contracts. So he had 18 months to migrate the entire infrastructure for ITA over on to AWS. And you know, there's nothing like an impending date to move. So, we've got agencies that are going all in on AWS, and I think that's just a sign of the times. >> Data centers, I mean anyone who were startup nine years into it, we've never had a data center. I think most startups don't.. >> Born in the cloud. >> Born in the cloud. Thanks so much Dave, for coming on. Appreciate the time. Congratulations on your success. AWS public sector doing great, global public sector. You guys are doing great. Building nations, we had Baharain on as well. Good luck, and the ecosystems looks good. You guys did a good job. So, congratulations. >> John, Stu, thank you very much for having me here today. >> Live coverage here, we are in Washington D.C. For Cube. Coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. We'll be back with more. Stay with us, we've got some more interviews after this short break. (techno music)

>> Hi, I'm Peter Burris, and welcome once again to Action Item. (funky electronic music) Every week, Wikibon gathers together the research team to discuss seminal issues that are facing the IT industry. And this week is no different. In the next couple of weeks, somewhere near 100,000 people are gonna be heading to Las Vegas for the Amazon, or AWS re:Invent show from all over the world. And this week, what we wanna do is we wanna provide a preview of what we think folks are gonna be talking about. And I'm joined here in our lovely Palo Alto studio, theCUBE studio, by Rob Hof, who is the editor-in-chief of SiliconANGLE. David Floyer, who's in analyst at Wikibon. George Gilbert, who's an analyst Wikibon. And John Furrier, who's a CUBE host and co-CEO. On the phone we have Neil Raden, an analyst at Wikibon, and also Dave Vellante, who's co-CEO with John Furrier, an analyst at Wikibon as well. So guys, let's jump right into it. David Floyer, I wanna hit you first. AWS has done a masterful job of making the whole concept of infrastructure as a service real. Nobody should downplay how hard that was and how amazing their success has been. But they're moving beyond infrastructure as a service. What do we expect for how far up Amazon is likely to go up the stack this year at re:Invent? >> Well, I can say what I'm hoping for. I agree with your premise that they have to go beyond IAS. The overall market for cloud is much bigger than just IAS, with SaaS and other clouds as well, both on-premise and off-premise. So I would start with what enterprise CIOs are wanting, and they are wanting to see a multi-cloud strategy, both on-premise and multiple clouds. SaaS clouds, other clouds. So I'm looking for AWS to provide additional services to make that easier. in particular, services, I thought of private clouds for enterprises. I'm looking for distributed capabilities, particularly in the storage area so they can link different clouds together. I want to see edge data management capabilities. I'd love to see that because the edge itself, especially the low-latency stuff, the real-time stuff, that needs specialist services, and I'd like to see them integrate that much better than just Snowball. I want to see more details about AI I'd love to see what they're doing in that. There's tremendous potential for AI in operational and to improve security, to improve availability, recovery. That is an area where I think they could be a leader of the IT industry. >> So let me stop you there, and George I wanna turn to you. So AWS in AI how do we anticipate that's gonna play out at re:Invent this year? >> I can see three things in decreasing order of likelihood. The first one is, they have to do a better job of tooling, both for, sort of, developers who want to dabble in, well get their arms around AI, but who aren't real data scientists. And then also hardcore tools for data scientists that have been well served by, recently, Microsoft and IBM, among others. So this is this Iron Man Initiative that we've heard about. For the hardcore tools, something from Domino Data Labs that looks like they're gonna partner with them. It's like a data-science workbench, so for the collaborative data preparation, modeling, deployment. That whole life cycle. And then for the developer-ready tooling, I expect to see they'll be working with a company called DataRobot, which has a really nifty tool where you put in a whole bunch of training data, and it trains, could be a couple dozen models that it thinks that might fit, and it'll show you the best fits. It'll show you the features in the models that are most impactful. In other words, it provides a lot of transparency. >> So it's kind of like models for models. >> Yes, and it provides transparency. Now that's the highest likelihood. And we have names on who we think the likely suspects are. The next step down, I would put applying machine learning to application performance management and IT operations. >> So that's the whole AI for ITOM that David Floyer just mentioned. >> Yeah. >> Now, presumably, this is gonna have to extend beyond just AI for Amazon or AWS-related ITOM. Our expectation's that we're gonna see a greater distribution of, or Amazon take more of a leadership in establishing a framework that cuts across multi-cloud. Have I got that right, David Floyer? >> Absolutely. A massive opportunity for them to provide the basics on their own platform. That's obviously the starting point. They'll have the best instrumentation for all of the components they have there. But they will need to integrate that in with their own databases, with other people's databases. The more that they can link all the units together and get real instrumentation from an application point of view of the whole of the infrastructure, the more value AI can contribute. >> John Foyer, the whole concept of the last few years of AWS is that all roads eventually end up at AWS. However, there's been a real challenge associated with getting this migration momentum to really start to mature. Now we saw some interesting moves that they made with VMware over the last couple of years, and it's been quite successful. And some would argue it might even have given another round of life to VMware. Are there some things we expect to see AWS do this time that are gonna reenergize the ecosystem to start bringing more customers higher up the stack to AWS? >> Yeah, but I think I look at it, quickly, as VMware was a groundbreaking even for both companies, VMware and AWS. We talked about that at that research event we had with them. The issue that is happening is that AWS has had a run in the marketplace. They've been the leader in cloud. Every year, it's been a slew of announcements. This year's no different. They're gonna have more and more announcements. In fact, they had to release some announcements early, before the show, because they have, again, more and more announcements. So they have the under-the-hood stuff going on that David Floyer and George were pointing out. So the classic build strategy is to continue to be competitive by having more services layered on top of each other, upgrading those services. That's a competitive strategy frame that's under the hood. On the business side, you're seeing more competition this year than ever before. Amazon now is highly contested, certainly in the marketplace with competitors. Okay, you're seeing FUD, the uncertainty and doubt from other people, how they're bundling. But it's clear. The cloud visibility is clear to customers. The numbers are coming in, multiple years of financial performance. But now the ecosystem plays, really, the interesting one. I think the VMware move is gonna be a tell sign for other companies that haven't won that top-three position. >> Example? >> I will say SAP. >> Oh really? You think SAP is gonna have a major play this year where we might see some more stuff about AWS and SAP? >> I'm hearing rumblings that SAP is gonna be expanding their relationship. I don't have the facts yet on the ground, but from what I'm sensing, this is consistent with what they've been doing. We've seen them at Google cloud platform. We talked to them specifically about how they're dealing with cloud. And their strategy is clear. They wanna be on Azure, Google, and Amazon. They wanna provide that database functionality and their client base in from HANA, and roll that in. So it's clear that SAP wants to be multi-cloud. >> Well we've seen Oracle over the past couple of years, or our research has suggested, I would say, that there's been kind of two broad strategies. The application-oriented strategy that goes down to IAAS aggressively. That'd be Oracle and Microsoft. And then the IAAS strategy that's trying to move up through an ecosystem play, which is more AWS. David Floyer and I have been writing a lot of that research. So it sounds like AWS is really gonna start doubling down in an ecosystem and making strategic bets on software providers who can bring those large enterprise install bases with them. >> Yeah, and the thing that you pointed out is migration. That's a huge issue. Now you can get technical, and say, what does that mean? But Andy Jassy has been clear, and the whole Amazon Web Services Team has been clear from day one. They're customer centric. They listen to the customers. So if they're doing more migration this year, and we'll see, I think they will be, I think that's a good tell sign and good prediction. That means the customers want to use Amazon more. And VMware was the same way. Their customers were saying, hey, we're ops guys, we want to have a cloud strategy. And it was such a great move for VMware. I think that's gonna lift the fog, if you will, pun intended, between what cloud computing is and other alternatives. And I think companies are gonna be clear that I can party with Amazon Web Services and still run my business in a way that's gonna help customers. I think that's the number one thing that I'm looking for is, what is the customers looking for in multi-cloud? Or if it's server-less or other things. >> Well, or yeah I agree. Lemme run this by you guys. It sounds as though multi-cloud increasingly is going to be associated with an application set. So, for example, it's very difficult to migrate a database manager from one place to another, as a snowflake. The cost to the customer is extremely high. The cost to the migration team is extremely high, lotta risk. But if you can get an application provider to step up and start migrating elements of the database interface, then you dramatically reduce the overall cost of what that migration might look like. Have I got that right, David Floyer? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what AWS, what I'm expecting them to focus on is more integration with more SaaS vendors, making it a better place-- >> Paul: Or just software vendors. >> Or software vendors. Well, SaaS vendors in particular, but software vendors in particular-- >> Well SAP's not a SaaS player, right? Well, they are a little bit, but most of their installations are still SAP on Oracle and moving them over, then my ass is gonna require a significant amount of SAP help. >> And one of the things I would love to see them have is a proper tier-one database as a service. That's something that's hugely missing at the moment, and using HANA, for example, on SAP, it's a tier-one database in a particular area, but that would be a good move and help a lot of enterprises to move stuff into AWS. >> Is that gonna be sufficient, though, given how dominant Oracle is in that-- >> No, they need something general purpose which can compete with Oracle or come to some agreement with Oracle. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future? >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Yeah we're all kinda ignoring here. It will be interesting to see. But at the end of the day, look, Oracle has an incentive also to render more of what it has, as a service at some level. And it's gonna be very difficult to say, we're gonna render this as a service to a customer, but Amazon can't play. Or AWS can't play. That's gonna be a real challenge for them. >> The Oracle thing is interesting and I bring this up because Oracle has been struggling as a company with cloud native messaging. In other words, they're putting out, they have a lot of open source, we know what they have for tooling. But they own IT. I mean if you dug up Oracle, they got the database as David pointed out, tier one. But they know the IT guys, they've been doing business in IT for years as a legacy vendor. Now they're transforming, and they are trying hard to be the cloud native path, and they're not making it. They're not getting the credit, and I don't know if that's a cultural issue with Oracle. But Amazon has that positioning from a developer cloud DNA. Now winning real enterprise deals. So the question that I'm looking for is, can Amazon continue to knock down these enterprise deals in lieu of these incumbent or legacy players in IT. So if IT continues to transform more towards cloud native, docker containers, or containers in Kubernetes, these kinds of micro services, I would give the advantage to Amazon over Oracle even though that Oracle has the database because ultimately the developers are driving the behavior. >> Oh again I don't think any of us would disagree with that. >> Yeah so the trouble though is the cost of migrating the applications and the data. That is huge. The systems of record are there for a reason. So there are two fundamental strategies for Oracle. If they can get their developers to add the AI, add the systems of intelligence. Make them systems of intelligence, then they can win in that strategy. Or the alternative is that they move it to AWS and do that movement in AWS. That's a much more risky strategy. >> Right but I think our kind of concluding point here is that ultimately if AWS can get big application players to participate and assist and invest in and move customers along with some of these big application migrations, it's good for AWS. And to your point John, it's probably good for the customers too. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah I don't think it's mutually exclusive as David makes a point about migrating for Oracle. I don't see a lot of migration coming off of Oracle. I look at overall database growth is the issue. Right so Oracle will have that position, but it's kind of like when we argued about the internet growth back in 1997. Just internet users growing was so great that rising tide flows. So I believe that the database growth is going to happen so fast that Amazon is not necessarily targeting Oracle's market share, they're going after the overall database market, which might be a smaller tier two kind of configuration or new architectures that are developing. So I think it's interesting dynamic and Oracle certainly could play there and lock in the database, but-- >> Here's what I would say, I would say that they're going after the new workload world, and a lot of that new workload is gonna involve database as it always has. Not like there's anything that the notion that we have solved or that database is 90% penetrated for the applications that are gonna be dominant matter in 2025 is ridiculous. There's a lot of new database that's gonna be sold. I think you're absolutely right. Rob Hof what's the general scuttlebutt that you're hearing. You know you as editor of SiliconANGLE, editor-in-chief of SiliconANGLE. What is the journalist world buzzing about for re:Invent this year? >> Well I guess you know my questions is because of the challenges that we're facing like we just talked about with migrating, the difficulty in migrating some of these applications. We also see very fast growing rivals like Google. Still small, but growing fast. And then there's China. That's a big one where is there a natural limit there that they're gonna have? So you put these things together, and I guess we see Amazon Web Services still growing at 42% a year or whatever it's great. But is it gonna start to go down because of all these challenges? >> 'Cause some of the constraints may start to assert themselves. >> Rob: Exactly, exactly. >> So-- >> Rob: That's what I'm looking at. >> Kind of the journalism world is kinda saying, are there some speed bumps up ahead for AWS? >> Exactly, and we saw one just a couple, well just this week with China for example. They sold off $300 million worth of data centers, equipment and such to their partner in China Beijing Sinnet. And they say this is a way to comply with Chinese law. Now we're going to start expanding, but expanding while you're selling off $300 million worth of equipment, you know, it begs a question. So I'm curious how they're going to get past that. >> That does raise an interesting question, and I think I might go back to some of the AI on ITOM, AI on IT operations management. Is that do you need control of the physical assets in China to nonetheless sell great service. >> Rob: And that's a big question. >> For accessing assets in China. >> Rob: Right. >> And my guess is that if they're successful with AI for ITOM and some of these other initiatives we're talking about. It in fact may be very possible for them to offer a great service in China, but not actually own the physical assets. And that's, it's an interesting question for some of the Chinese law issues. Dave Vellante, anything you want to jump in on, and add to the conversation? For example, if we look at some of the ecosystem and some of the new technologies, and some of the new investments being made around new technologies. What are some of your thoughts about some of the new stuff that we might hear about at AWS this year? >> Dave: Well so, a couple things. Just a comment on some of the things you guys were saying about Oracle and migration. To me it comes down to three things, growth, which is clearly there, you've talked about 40% plus growth. Momentum, you know the flywheel effect that Amazon has been talking about for years. And something that really hasn't been discussed as much which is economics, and this is something that we've talked about a lot and Amazon is bringing a software like marginal economics model to infrastructure services. And as it potentially slows down its growth, it needs to find new areas, and it will expand its tan by gobbling up parts of the ecosystem. So, you know there's so much white space, but partners got to be careful about where they're adding value because ultimately Amazon is gonna target those much in the same way, in my view anyway that Microsoft and Intel have in the past. And so I think you've got to tread very carefully there, and watch where Amazon is going. And they're going into the big areas of AI, trying to do more stuff with the Edge. And anywhere there's automation they are going to grab that piece of value in the value chain. >> So one of the things that we've been, we've talked about two main things. We've talked about a lot of investments, lot of expectations about AI and how AI is gonna show up in a variety of different ways at re:Invent. And we've talked about how they're likely to make some of these migration initiatives even that much more tangible than they have been. So by putting some real operational clarity as to how they intend to bring enterprises into AWS. We haven't talked about IoT. Dave just mentioned it. What's happening with the Edge, how is the Edge going to work? Now historically what we've seen is we've seen a lot of promises that the Edge was all going to end up in the cloud from a data standpoint, and that's where everything was gonna be processed. We started seeing the first indications that that's not necessarily how AWS is gonna move last year with Snowball and server-less computing, and some of those initiatives. We have anticipated a real honest to goodness true private cloud, AWS stack with a partnership. Hasn't happened yet. David Floyer what are we looking for this year? Are we gonna see that this year or are we gonna see more kind of circumnavigating the issue and doing the best that they can? >> Yeah, well my prediction last year was that they would come out with some sort of data service that you could install on your on-premise machine as a starting point for this communication across a multi cloud environment. I'm still expecting that, whether it happens this year or early next year. I think they have to. The pressure from enterprises, and they are a customer driven organization. The pressure from enterprises is going to mandate that they have some sort of solution on-premise. It's a requirement in many countries, especially in Europe. They're gonna have to do that I think without doubt. So they can do it in multiple ways, they can do it as they've done with the US government by putting in particular data centers, whole data centers within the US government. Or they can do it with small services, or they can have a, take the Microsoft approach of having an AWS service on site as well. I think with pressure from Microsoft, the pressure from Europe in particular is going to make this an essential requirement of their whole strategy. >> I remember a number of years going back a couple decades when Dell made big moves because to win the business of a very large manufacturer that had 50,000 work stations. Mainly engineers were turning over every year. To get that business Dell literally put a distribution point right next to that manufacturer. And we expect to see something similar here I would presume when we start talking about this. >> Yeah I mean I would make a comment on the IoT. First of all I agree with what David said, and I like his prediction, but I'm kind of taking a contrarian view on this, and I'm watching a few things at Amazon. Amazon always takes an approach of getting into new markets either with a big idea, and small teams to figure it out or building blocks, and they listen to the customer. So IoT is interesting because IoT's hard, it's important, it's really a fundamental important infrastructure, architecture that's not going away. I mean it has to be nailed down, it's obvious. Just like blockchain kinda is obvious when you talk about decentralization. So it'll be interesting to see what Amazon does on those two fronts. But what's interesting to note is Amazon always becomes their first customer. In their retail business, AWS was powering retail. With Whole Foods, and the stuff they're doing on the physical side, it'll be very interesting to see what their IoT strategy is from a technology standpoint with what they're doing internally. We get food delivered to our house from Amazon Fresh, and they got Whole Foods and all the retail. So it'll be interesting to see that. >> They're buying a lot of real estate. And I thought about this as well John. They're buying a lot of real estate, and how much processing can they put in there. And the only limit is that I don't think Whole Foods would qualify as particularly secure locations (laughing) when we start talking about this. But I think you're absolutely right. >> That only brings the question, how will they roll out IoT. Because he's like okay roll out an appliance that's more of an infrastructure thing. Is that their first move. So the question that I'm looking for is just kind of read the tea leaves and saying, what is really their doing. So they have the tech, and it's gonna be interesting to see, I mean it's more of a high level kind of business conversation, but IoT is a really big challenging area. I mean we're hearing that all over the place from CIOs like what's the architecture, what's the playbook? And it's different per company. So it's challenging. >> Although one of the reasons why it looks different per company is because it is so uncertain as to how it's gonna play out. There's not a lot of knowledge to fuse. My guess is that in 10 years we're gonna look back and see that there was a lot more commonality and patterns of work that were in IoT that many people expected. So I'll tell you one of the things that I saw last year that particularly impressed me at AWS re:Invent. Was the scale at which the network was being built out. And it raised for me an interesting question. If in fact one of the chief challenges of IoT. There are multiple challenges that every company faces with IoT. One is latency, one is intellectual property control, one is legal ramification like GDPR. Which is one of the reasons why the whole Europe play is gonna be so interesting 'cause GDPR is gonna have a major impact on a global basis, it's not just Europe. Bandwidth however is an area that is not necessarily given, it's partly a function of cost. So what happens if AWS blankets the world with network, and customers to get access to at least some degree of Edge no longer have to worry about a telco. What happens to the telco business at least from a data communication standpoint? Anybody wanna jump in on that one? >> Well yeah I mean I've actually talked to a couple folks like Ericson, and I think AT&T. And they're actually talking about taking their central offices and even the base stations, and sort of outfitting them as mini data centers. >> As pops. >> Yeah. But I think we've been hearing now for about 12 months that, oh maybe Edge is going to take over before we actually even finish getting to the cloud. And I think that's about as sort of ill-considered as the notion that PCs were gonna put mainframes out of business. And the reason I use that as an analogy, at one point IBM was going to put all their mainframe based databases and communication protocol on the PC. That was called OS2 extended edition. And it failed spectacularly because-- >> Peter: For a lot of reasons. >> But the idea is you have a separation of concerns. Presentation on one side in that case, and data management communications on the other. Here in this, in what we're doing here, we're definitely gonna have the low latency inferencing on the Edge and then the question is what data goes back up into the cloud for training and retraining and even simulation. And we've already got, having talked to Microsoft's Azure CTO this week, you know they see it the same way. They see the compute intensive modeling work, and even simulation work done in the cloud, and the sort of automated decisioning on the Edge. >> Alright so I'm gonna make one point and then I want to hit the Action Item around here. The one point I wanna make is I have a feeling that over, and I don't know if it's gonna happen at re:Invent this year but I have a feeling that over the course of the next six to nine months, there's going to be a major initiative on the part of Amazon to start bringing down the cost of data communications, and use their power to start hitting the telcos on a global basis. And what's going to be very very interesting is whether Amazon starts selling services to its network independent of its other cloud services. Because that could have global implications for who wins and who loses. >> Well that's a good point, I just wanna add color on that. Just anecdotally from my perspective you asked a question and I went, haven't talked to anyone. But knowing the telco business, I think they're gonna have that VMware moment. Because they've been struggling with over the top for so long. The rapid pace of innovation going on, that I don't think Amazon is gonna go after the telcos, I think it's just an evolutionary steamroller effect. >> It's an inevitability. >> It's an inevitability that the steamroller's coming. >> So users, don't sign longterm data communications deals right now. >> Why wouldn't you do a deal with Amazon if you're a telco, you get relevance, you have stability, lock in your cash flows, cut your deal, and stay alive. >> You know it's an interesting thought. Alright so let's hit the Action Item around here. So really quickly, as a preface for this, the way we wanna do this is guys, is that John Furrier is gonna have a couple hour one on one with Andy Jassy sometime in the next few days. And so if you were to, well tell us a little about that first John. >> Well every re:Invent we've been doing re:Invent for multiple years, I think it's our sixth year, we do all the events, and we cover it as the media partner as you know. And I'm gonna have a one on one sit down every year prior to re:Invent to get his view, exclusive interview, for two hours. Talk about the future. We broke the first Amazon story years ago on the building blocks, and how they overcame, and now they're winning. So it's a time for me to sit down and get his insight and continue to tell the story, and document the growth of this amazing success story. And so I'm gonna ask him specific questions and I wanted, love to know what he's thinking. >> Alright guys so I want each of you to pretend that you are, so representing your community, what would your community, what's the one question your community would like answered by Andy Jassy. George let's start with you. >> So my question would be, are you gonna take IT operations management, machine learn enable it, and then as part of offering a hybrid cloud solution, do you extend that capability on-prem, and maybe to even other vendor clouds. >> Peter: That's a good one, David Floyer. >> I've got two if I may. >> The more the merrier. >> I'll say them very quickly. The first one, John, is you've, the you being AWS, developed a great international network, with fantastic performance. How is AWS going to avoid conflicts with the EU, China, Japan, and particularly about their resistance about using any US based nodes. And from in-country telecommunication vendors. So that's my first, and the second is, again on AI, what's going to be the focus of AWS in applying the value of AI. Where are you gonna focus first and to give value to your customers? >> Rob Hof do you wanna ask a question? >> Yeah I'd like to, one thing I didn't raise in terms of the challenges is, Amazon overall is expanding so fast into all kinds of areas. Whole Foods we saw this. I'd ask Jassy, how do you contend with reality that a lot of these companies that you're now bumping up against as an overall company. Now don't necessarily want to depend on AWS for their critical infrastructure because they're competitors. How do you deal with that? >> Great question, David Vellante. >> David: Yeah my question is would be, as an ecosystem partner, what advice would you give? 'Cause I'm really nervous that as you grow and you use the mantra of, well we do what customers want, that you are gonna eat into my innovation. So what advice would you give to your ecosystem partners about places that they can play, and a framework that they should think about where they should invest and add value without the fear of you consuming their value proposition. >> So it's kind of the ecosystem analog to the customer question that Rob asked. So the one that I would have for you John is, the promise is all about scale, and they've talked a lot about how software at scale has to turn into hardware. What will Amazon be in five years? Are they gonna be a hardware player on a global basis? Following his China question, are they gonna be a software management player on a global basis and are not gonna worry as much about who owns the underlying hardware? Because that opens up a lot of questions about maybe there is going to be a true private cloud option an AWS will just try to run on everything, and really be the multi cloud administrator across the board. The Cisco as opposed to the IBM in the internet transformation. Alright so let me summarize very quickly. Thank you very much all of you guys once again for joining us in our Action Item. So this week we talked about AWS re:Invent. We've done this for a couple of years now. theCUBE has gone up and done 30, 35, 40 interviews. We're really expanding our presence at AWS re:Invent this year. So our expectation is that Amazon has been a major player in the industry for quite some time. They have spearheaded the whole concept of infrastructure as a service in a way that, in many respects nobody ever expected. And they've done it so well and so successfully that they are having an enormous impact way beyond just infrastructure in the market place today. Our expectation is that this year at AWS re:Invent, we're gonna hear a lot about three things. Here's what we're looking for. First, is AWS as a provider of advanced artificial intelligence technologies that then get rendered in services for application developers, but also for infrastructure managers. AI for ITOM being for example a very practical way of envisioning how AI gets instantiated within the enterprise. The second one is AWS has had a significant migration as a service initiative underway for quite some time. But as we've argued in Wikibon research, that's very nice, but the reality is nobody wants to bond the database manager. They don't want to promise that the database manager's gonna come over. It's interesting to conceive of AWS starting to work with application players as a way of facilitating the process of bringing database interfaces over to AWS more successfully as an onboarding roadmap for enterprises that want to move some of their enterprise applications into the AWS domain. And we mentioned one in particular, SAP, that has an interesting potential here. The final one is we don't expect to see the kind of comprehensive Edge answers at this year's re:Invent. Instead our expectation is that we're gonna continue to see AWS provide services and capabilities through server-less, through other partnerships that allow AWS to be, or the cloud to be able to extend out to the Edge without necessarily putting out that comprehensive software stack as an appliance being moved through some technology suppliers. But certainly green grass, certainly server-less, lambda, and other technologies are gonna continue to be important. If we finalize overall what we think, one of the biggest plays is, we are especially intrigued by Amazon's continuing build out of what appears to be one of the world's fastest, most comprehensive networks, and their commitment to continue to do that. We think this is gonna have implications far beyond just how AWS addresses the Edge to overall how the industry ends up getting organized. So with that, once again thank you very much for enjoying Action Item, and participating, and we'll talk next week as we review some of the things that we heard at AWS. And we look forward to those further conversations with you. So from Peter Burris, the Wikibon team, SiliconANGLE, thank you very much and this has been Action Item. (funky electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. Live here in San Francisco, this is The Cube's exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, and co-host of The Cube. My next guest is Dominic Venuto, who is the General Manager of the consumer division of The Weather Channel, and Watson Advertising, which is part of The Weather Company. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you for having me. >> Finally, I got the consumer guy on. I've interviewed The Weather Company folks from the IBM side, two different brands. One's the data, big data science operation going on, the whole Weather Company. But Weather Channel, the consumer stuff, Weather Underground, that's your product. >> Yes, you saved the best for last. We touch the consumer. >> So, weather content is good. So obviously, the hurricanes have been in the news over the years. Out here in California, the fires. People are interested in whether the impact, it used to be a unique thing on cable, go to the Weather Channel, check the forecast, read the paper. Now with online apps, weather is constantly a utility for users. So it's not a long-tail editorial product. It's pretty fundamental. >> Yeah, we want to be where our consumers are. Fundamentally we want to help people make better decisions and propel the world. And since weather touches everything, we need to be where the consumers are. So now, with all the digital touchpoints, whether that's your phone, or its a watch, your television, desktop if you still have one and you're still using it, as some of us do. We want to be there, for that very reason. And in fact, what we're aiming for, is to move from a utility, because if we are going to help people make better decisions, a utility only goes so far, would be a platform to anticipate behavior and drive decisions. >> So tell me about the Weather Underground and the weather.com consumer product. They're all one in the same now? Obviously one was very successful, with user generated content. This is not going away. Explain the product side of The Weather Channel consumer division. >> Yeah, so we have two brands in our portfolio, Weather Underground, which is more of a challenger brand. It's very data rich, and visualizes data in a number of different ways, that a certain user group really loves. So if you're a weather geek, as we call them, an avid aficionado of weather, and you really want to really get in there and understand what's happening, and look at the data, then Weather Underground is a platform. >> So for users to tie into, to put up weather stations, and other things that might be relevant. >> Exactly so, we started out in 2001, originally the first IOT implementation at the consumer level, connected devices. Where you could connect a personal weather station, put one in your back yard, and connect it to our platform, and feed hyper-local data into our network. And then we feed that into our forecast, to improve that, and actually validate whether the forecast is right or not, based on what people have at home. And we've hit a recent milestone. We've got over 250,000 personal weather stations connected to the network, which we are super thrilled about. And now, what we are doing is, we are extending that network to other connected devices, and air quality is a big topic right now, in other parts of the world, especially in Asia, where air quality is not always where it should be, that's a big thing we think we can... >> That's a big innovation opportunity for you, I mean, you point out the underground product was part of maker-culture, people do-it-yourself weather stations, evolve now into really strong products. That same dynamic could be used for air control, not just micro-climates. >> Exactly, yeah. >> In California, we had a problem this week. >> Exactly, California is a good example, really topical, where cities may have had great air quality, and all of the sudden the environment changes, and you want to know, what is it like? What is the breathing quality like outside right now? And you can come to our network and see that. And we're growing the air quality sensors every month, it's only been up a few months right now, so that's expanding quite well. >> So for the folks that don't know, The Weather Channel back end, has a huge data-driven product. I don't want to get into that piece, because we've talked about it. Go to youtube.com/siliconangle, search Weather Company. You'll see all our great videos from the IBM events, that are out, if you want the detail. But I do want to ask you, what's really happening with you guys, there's two things. One is, it's an app and content for devices, like Samsung is using. And two, essentially you're an IOT network. Sensors are sensors, whether they're user-generated, or user-populated, you guys are deploying a serious IOT capability. >> Absolutely, it's one of the reasons that IBM acquired The Weather Company, which houses the brands of Weather Underground and The Weather Channel, is that we have this fantastic infrastructure, this IOT infrastructure, ingesting large amounts of data, processing it, and then serving it back out to consumers at scale globally. >> What are you guys doing there with Samsung? Anything just particular in the IOT side, or? >> We've got a couple of initiatives going on with Samsung, a few I can't mention right now, but stay tuned. Some really cool things in the connect-at-home, that we're excited about, that builds on some of the work... >> Nest competitor? >> Not exactly a Nest competitor. Think more kitchen. >> Kitchen, okay. >> Think more kitchen. >> We had the goods, cooking in the kitchen, from our previous guest. So the question is, IOT personal, I get that. What else is going on with IOT, with you guys, that you can share? Lifestyle, in the home is great, but... >> So again, going back to how do we help people make better decisions, now that we are collecting data from not just personal weather stations, but air quality monitors, we are collecting it from cars, we are collecting it from the cell phone. We are really able to ingest data at scale, and when you're doing that, we've got hundreds of thousands of data sets that we are feeding into our models, when you do that, we've solved the computing challenge, now we are applying machine-learning and artificial intelligence to process this and extract insights. To validate data sets, in our forecast, and then deliver that back to the end user. >> One of the tech geek themes we talk about all of the time is policy-based something. Programming, setting the policy. So, connecting the dots from what you're saying is, I'm driving my car, and I want to know if it's hot, or the road temperature. I might want to know if I'm running too fast, and my sensor device on me wants to impact the weather, for comfortable breathing for me, for instance. The lifestyle impacts, the content of data, is not just watching a video on The Weather Channel. >> No, it's not. >> So this is a new user experience. It's immersive, it's lifestyle-oriented, it's relevant. What are some of the products you're doing with Samsung, that can enable this new user expectation? >> One of the products that we have right now, we we're one of the initial partners for the Made for Samsung program, is, we've got calendar integration in our app. So now we know, if you've got a meeting coming up, and you need to travel to get there, maybe there's a car trip involved, we know, obviously, the forecast. We know what traffic might be, and we can give you heads up, an alert, that says, hey you might want to leave 15 minutes early for that meeting coming up. That's in the Samsung product right now, which is really, again, helping people make better decisions. So we've got a lot of examples like that. But again, the calendar integration in the Made for Samsung app is really exciting. We recently announced, in fact I think it was this morning, we announced integration with Trip Advisor. So similarly, if we see time on your calendar, and the weather is fine for the weekend, we might suggest outdoor activities for you to go and explore, using Trip Advisor's almost one-billion library of events that they have. >> What's the coolest thing you guys are working on right now? >> Oh, that's a very long list. I say that I'm probably the luckiest guy in IBM right now, because I get to work with millions of consumers, we reach 250 million consumers a month, and I'm also bringing Watson to consumers, and artificial intelligence, which is a unique challenge to solve. Introducing consumers to a new paradigm of user interaction and abilities. So, I think the most exciting thing is taking artificial intelligence and machine-learning, and bringing that to consumers at scale, and solving some of the challenges there. >> Well contratulations. I'm a big fan of IBM, what they're doing with weather data, The Weather Company, The Weather Channel. Bringing that data and immersing it into these new networks that are being created, new capabilities, really helps the consumer, so. Hope to see you at the Think conference coming up next year. >> Yes, we are excited about that, and stay tuned, we may have some more exciting stuff to unveil. >> Make sure our writers get ahold of it, break the stories. It's The Cube, bringing you the data. The weather's fine in San Francisco today. I'm John Farrier with The Cube. More live from San Francisco, from the SDC Samsung Developer Conference, after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE! Covering Red Hat Summit 2017! Brought to you by Red Hat! (electronic music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Red Hat Summit, I'm Rebecca Knight, your host, I'm here with Stu Miniman, our guest today is Jason Hoffman. He is the vice president and global head of cloud infrastructure at Ericsson. Thanks so much for joining us here. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Thank you. So, I want to start out by talking about the cloud market today, and where we are. We've heard here at the summit that the number one thing on customers' minds is cloud strategy. Is that, does that resonate with you? And what are you hearing from customers? >> Cloud's an interesting topic. Because it's both an infrastructure approach, sometimes people use it for a delivery model, sometimes people use it to describe a business model, sometimes people use it to describe a number of things. For me, for most companies, cloud's not strategic. Cloud's tactical. Cloud may be strategic to Amazon, cloud may be strategic to Microsoft, we've yet to see whether it's truly strategic for Google, and that, but for most people it's tactical. And I think it's a fine distinction to make, because tactical means there's stuff to do, and if you look at the thing to do, it's pretty clear that that approach to infrastructure is on highly accessible, industrialized infrastructure. And I anchor that in infrastructure because in the absence of that type of infrastructure then your delivery models and business models and stuff don't apply, basically. >> Jason, you bring up an interesting point, we heard in the first day keynote, they said, "One of the top priorities for end users is, "to build a cloud strategy." Because when I talk to most users, they've been very tactical, it's like, well, we moved our scene around, to SaaS. Everybody did. I'm starting to move certain business apps to SaaS. I've, everybody tried Dev, you know, on Amazon, and played with a number of other clouds, but you look at that, I had a guy who wrote for me, he was like, "We don't have hybrid cloud. "We have composite cloud." Because I've got all those things there, it's like, "How do I shop?" It's like, well, I stop at a convenience store where I need, I go to the store, and I get lots of stuff from Amazon. Sounds like how we do cloud! So where do you see, from the users that you talk to, I mean, you've been involved in this since the early days, so it feels like we talk a lot about cloud stuff, but it feels like we're getting a little bit more real, I'm heartened to see that users are starting to, you know, think about strategic, how they put things together, where do you see the customers you're talking to? >> Well, I mean, I think a lot of the customers are educated by the market. And the market tends to use a lot of these marketing terms, like composite, rather than getting down to what the actual sort of issues are. The issues, even if we go back to the highly accessible, industrialized type of infrastructure, I mean, the issue there is. Customers need to simplify things. They largely would like to do that through some type of, quote unquote, "automation". And they would like everything that they do under one governance model. Essentially, what you'd call life cycle management, or governance, or whatever. But these types of things that both the infrastructure, and the nature of the things that you do on it, are too complex. And they tend not to be, you know, once they're basically put in place, they tend not to be touched again. You know, so in fact, if you look at a good definition of like, legacy. Legacy, for me, is when the cost of keeping something as is, is basically cheaper than the replacement process. And actually if you look at that sort of cost curve, the day that something is best to leave as is, and it's very expensive to replace, is the day it goes live. >> So the legacy curve-- >> It's like driving a car off the lot. >> The legacy curve is actually a U-shaped curve. You know, in there. And in fact, the day something goes live, it's like a sieve and at some point, three, four, five years down the road, it's not legacy, and then about three, four, five years after that, it's legacy again. >> Reminds me of what Jeff Baso said, "There will never be a day two for us, "we are always going to stay day one, "focused on creating new stuff, "because otherwise once you go kind of steady state, "the decline is coming soon after." >> Yeah, and I think, I mean, if you look at now, myself having started I dunno, 20 plus years ago in scientific computing, and then, you know, meeting HPC and these types of efforts, and then showing up in sort of what one would call the quote unquote, "cloud world", the effort there has largely been the same, I mean, it's one of these ones where, infrastructure by its very nature is always risky to manage. You know, meaning things like, continuously deploying things into infrastructure, always runs the risk of making infrastructure inaccessible to people. You know, you don't instantly like, if a new operating system image comes out, you don't reboot 100, 000 servers. And then the applications that sit on top of it, and have historically inherited that risk from the infrastructure. And the effort has largely been separating those two. So that applications get freed of the risk from the underlying infrastructure, and then you can start applying a certain approach to the infrastructure, not really caring about what's on it. And cloud is pretty much this emergence of infrastructure, as its own practice. And it's going from traditional IT environments, where that sort of operational model, and that economic model, is not the center of anybody's product designs, to an operational and economic model that is at the center of everybody's sort of product designs. And the KPIs around what you're doing there, and whether you're successful, are relatively simple. And that is, you know, are you continuously improving, in terms of capacity, capabilities, and unit economics. You know, if you're not, if you don't have an exponentially decreasing unit economic curve, within, you know, a five year period of time, then you're probably not doing, you know, quote unquote, "cloud" right. >> Jason, we know with Ericsson's background, you've got strong positions in the telecom space, working a lot on the NFB solutions, expect that's a hot area of working with Red Hat, can you kind of sketch out for us, just where Ericsson sits in the marketplace today of where customers are coming to you, with kind of key partnerships? >> The element for us is that we're a 141 year old Swedish multinational. And we've been in the same business for 141 years. And that we provide the communication backbone for the world. And so, on one part of the business, is that if you see 2G, 3G, 4G, LTE, or stuff on the phone, or if you use a mobile phone in somewhere like North America, 100% of all that traffic goes over Ericsson applications. And so you know, we're a very dominant provider of that radio edge, if you will. The other thing we have, from an application portfolio perspective, is everything you need to be a telecom. So everything ranging from the network functions, through OSS environments, PSS environments, customer front ends. And the like. And the telecom space, has been undergoing some pretty dramatic changes, in some ways. Or not dramatic changes, depending on one sort of attitude over the last few years. The first one, is even though that far radio edge, if you will, has tens of millions of points of presence globally, that talk to billions of devices, that's a very algorithmically driven, event driven, very industrialized type of infrastructure. It's fair to say that if you look at the typical definition one would apply to hyperscale, it applies to the radio edge. It also applies to the sort of hyperscale cloud providers. In between those two things, is roughly about one to two trillion U.S. dollars of investments that sits in tens of thousands of facilities globally with pretty much the computer history museum of hardware and operating systems and everything else inside of it. It's effectively this whole middle mile infrastructure. For us, we sort of view the virtualization of everything that's in the telecom space, and uplifting it to a common infrastructure approach, is pretty critical to get a handle on that middle mile infrastructure. >> Jason, you know, when I think about the telecom space, we're talking about 5G now, these roll outs tend to take a while, we measure things in years, if not decades, before they roll out. Jim Whitehurst got on stage this morning, said, you know, "Planning is dead, "we don't do a 10 year big data plan, "we won't do a ten year AI plan." How does, you know, your set of the market live in this greater changing world, how do you look forward, can you predict like we did in the past? That's a, so I think yes and no. I mean, we, you're correct in that if you take a market like India, India's going to hit 200% 2G penetration in 2020. And so, we're talking about something that's going to happen 20 years after it started in other parts of the market. You have spots like Papua New Guinea, that are, have 2G networks throwing 200, 300% year over year. And so when you look at this globally, the roll out of these technologies are on, typically, a 30 year time schedule, overall. And they result in people owning assets that they have for at least 30 years. In many cases as well. So on one aspect, there is very long term planning that has to exist, and we have some customers we've had for a century. From that point of view, they have to know those types of plans. On the other end, is if you look at what we have to start doing from a technology standpoint, is enabling just a tremendous amount of flexibility, to be able to just get out of this legacy hamster wheel. This idea that the second you go and deploy something somewhere, you can't touch it again, and you can't continuously improve it again. You know, we're trying to sit down and say, "If we go out and do these types of deployments, "we need the ability "to actually continuously improve these." In fact, that's really what the industrialized word means for us. And so, for many of these things, you know, we've been taking certain approaches. I mean, interestingly enough, if you look at the actual mobile edge of things, the radio edge of things, that is one where there is one hardware platform, it comes in tens of form factors, we'll go and deploy out that infrastructure, and whether it's a 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, narrow band ILT infrastructure, it's purely unlocked in software. And so that is a good software to find, sort of infrastructure. And you do it that way because at the end of the day, somebody's got to go into a jungle and put a cell tower up, and you don't want to go out there again. And we want to take that same sort of thinking throughout the rest of the infrastructure. >> Jason, it always fascinates me, if you look at this space, I mean, I remember we interviewed you back at Joint, we were talking a lot of the show about containers, and there's things that we've tried in the past, and now it's coming at it again on edge computing, is something we're starting to talk about, it's a little bit difficult to predict how long some of that will take, and some of the cycles, but maybe to wrap us up, talk to us a little bit about this, you know, Ericsson's planning for the future, what are some of those big challenges that you see, that we as an industry need to tackle, and maybe some of the things that will earlier wins and stuff, that you know, might take a little bit longer. >> Yeah I mean, a little bit longer, and if I look out really, probably the next 15, 20 years, I mean the type of middle mile industrialization they're doing today is a prerequisite for all the IOTUs cases to show up on 5G. Because there's simply not enough middle mile capacity in the world, or capabilities there, to even have it go to an amazon type perspective. So even if that all ends up there, so, now it's going to be this very large effort of I think, bringing these two worlds together, and on the hyperscale cloud providers, you have a very industrialized approach in infrastructure, and it's very supply chain driven, and it's very sort of, easy to cookie cutter out. On the extreme end of the infrastructure, on the radio edge, it's the same what. And, but all the stuff in the middle's not. And if you look at the channelage from a cloud perspective, it's about taking those sort of learnings from the book ends of the infrastructure, bringing it to the middle, if you will. And starting to think about what, because edge computing's a great example, it's like, what does it mean when you start using that, from an end user perspective? You're not going to go to a pull down menu, and pick 12, 418 availability zones from a list of 120, 000 global availability zones. You're not going to automatically have issues around data sovereignty and everything else like that, just sort of be tackled. So I think in many ways, when we start looking at some core concepts that live in hundreds of facilities, and sort of large cloud providers, and some of these concepts where we manage to do things in tens of millions of base stations, talking to billions of devices, the reality for me is when you look at the redo, and now the more global use of that infrastructure that's in the middle, it's going to require developer accessibility, and a certain degree of programmability that doesn't actually exist yet. And you know, of course it's an open question of how much you do it. I mean, you know, you're going to have to scale topologically, rather than sort of scale in other ways. And a lot of that stuff's just not done yet. >> Jason, thank you so much for joining us, we really appreciate your time. >> Anytime. >> We'll be back with more of theCUBE's coverage of the Red Hat Summit, after this. (electronic music)