(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS reInvent Executive Summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE's coverage of Accenture Executive Summit here at AWS reInvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. For this segment we have two guests. First we have Helen Davis. She is the Senior Director of Cloud Platform Services, Assistant Director for IT and Digital for the West Midlands Police. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Helen. >> Welcome. >> And we also have Matthew Pound. He is Accenture Health and Public Service Associate Director and West Midlands Police Account Lead. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Matthew. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we are going to be talking about delivering data-driven insights to the West Midlands Police force. Helen, I want to start with you. Can you tell us a little bit about the West Midlands Police force? How big is the force and also what were some of the challenges that you were grappling with prior to this initiative? >> Yes, certainly. So West Midlands Police is the second largest police force in the UK, outside of the Metropolitan Police in London. We have an excessive 11,000 people work at West Midlands Police serving communities through and across the Midlands region. So geographically we're quite a big area as well as being population density having that at a high level. So the reason we sort of embarked on the data-driven insights platform and which was a huge change for us was for a number of reasons. Namely we had a lot of disparate data which was spread across a range of legacy systems that were many, many years old with some duplication of what was being captured and no single view for offices or support staff. Some of the access was limited. You have to be in an actual police building on a desktop computer to access it. Other information could only reach offices on the front line through a telephone call back to one of our enabling services where they would do a manual checkup look at the information, then call the offices back and tell them what they needed to know. So it was a very long laborious process not very efficient. And we certainly weren't exploiting the data that we had in a very productive way. >> So it sounds like as you're describing an old clunky system that needed a technological reimagination, so what was the main motivation for making this shift? >> It was really about making us more efficient and more effective in how we do business. So certainly as an IT leader and some of my operational colleagues, we recognize the benefits that data analytics could bring in a policing environment, not something that was really done in the UK at the time. We have a lot of data, so we're very data rich in the information that we have, but we needed to turn it into information that was actionable. So that's where we started looking for technology partners and suppliers to help us and sort of help us really with what's the art of the possible, this hasn't been done before so what could we do in this space that's appropriate for policing. >> Helen I love that idea. What is the art of the possible, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose AWS? >> I think really as with all things, when we're procuring apartment in the public sector, there are many rules and regulations quite rightly because you would expect that to be because we're spending public money so we have to be very, very careful and it's a long process and we have to be open to public scrutiny. So we sort of look to everything, everything that was available as part of that process, but we recognize the benefits that Cloud would provide in this space because we like moving to a Cloud environment. We would literally be replacing something that was legacy with something that was a bit more modern. That's not what we wanted to do. Our ambition was far greater than that. So I think in terms of AWS, really, it was around the scalability, interoperability, just things like the disaster recovery service, the fact that we can scale up and down quickly, we call it dialing up and dialing back. It's page go. So it just sort of ticked all the boxes for us. And then we went through the full procurement process, fortunately it came out on top for us. So we were able to move forward, but it just sort of had everything that we were looking for in that space. >> Matthew, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here. How are you working with the West Midlands Police, sorry, and helping them implement this Cloud-first journey? >> I guess by January the West Midlands Police started paver five years ago now. So we set up a partnership with the force I wanted to operate in a way that was very different to a traditional supplier relationship. Security that the data difference insights program is one of many that we've been working with West Midlands over the last five years. As having said already Cloud gave a number of advantages certainly from big data perspective and the things that that enabled us today from an Accenture to that allowed us to bring in a number of the different teams that we have say Cloud teams, security teams, interacted from a design perspective, as well as more traditional services that people would associate with the country. >> I mean, so much of this is about embracing comprehensive change to experiment, and innovate, and try different things. Matthew, how do you help an entity like West Midlands Police think differently when there are these ways of doing things that people are used to, how do you help them think about what is the art of the possible, as Helen said? >> There's a few things to that, what is critical is trying to co-create solutions together. Yeah, there's no point just turning up with what we think is the right answer, trying to collectively work through the issues that the force are saying and the outcomes they're looking to achieve rather than simply focusing on a long list of requirements I think was critical and then being really open to working together to create the right solution rather than just trying to pick something off the shelf that maybe doesn't fit the full set of requirements in the way that it should do. >> Right, it's not always a one size fits all. >> Absolutely not. What we believe is critical is making sure that we're creating something that met the forces needs in terms of the outcomes they're looking to achieve the financial envelopes that were available and how we can deliver those in a iterative agile way rather than spending years and years working towards an outcome that is going outdate before you even get that. >> So Helen, how are things different? What kinds of business functions and processes have been re-imagined in light of this change and this shift? >> It's actually unrecognizable now in certain areas of the business as it was before. So to give you a little bit of context, when we started working with Accenture and AWS on need data driven insights program, it was very much around providing what was called locally, a wizzy tool for our intelligence analyst to interrogate data, look at data, decide whether they could do anything predictive with it. And it was very much sort of a back office function to sort of tidy things up for us and make us a bit better in that area or a lot better in that area. And it was rolled out to a number of offices, a small number on the front line. Really it was in line with the mobility strategy that we had where officers were getting new smartphones for the first time to do sort of a lot of things on policing apps and things like that to again, to avoid them having to keep driving back to police stations, et cetera. And the pilot was so successful. Every officer now has access to this data on their mobile devices. So it literally went from a handful of people in an office somewhere using it to do sort of clever whizzbang things to every officer in the force being able to access that level of data at their fingertips literally. So what they would touch we've done before is if they needed to check an address or check details of an individual just as one example, they would either have to, in many cases, go back to a police station to look it up themselves on a desktop computer while they would have to make a call back to a centralized function and speak to an operator, relay the questions either wait for the answer or wait for a call back with the answer when those people are doing the data interrogation manually. So the biggest change for us is the self-service nature of the data we now have available. So officers can do it themselves on their phone, wherever they might be. So the efficiency savings from that point of view are immense. And I think just parallel to that is the quality of our data because we had a lot of data, but just because you've got a lot of data and a lot of information doesn't mean it's big data and it's valuable necessarily. So again, it was having the single source of truth as we call it. So you know that when you are completing those safe searches and getting the responses back, that it is the most accurate information we hold. And also you get an it back within minutes as opposed to half an hour, an hour or a drive back to a station. So it's making officers more efficient and it's also making them safer. The more efficient they are, the more time they have to spend out with the public doing what we all should be doing. >> Have you seen that kind of return on investment because what you were just describing with all the steps that we'd needed to be taken in prior to this to verify and address say, and those are precious seconds when someone's life is on the line in sort of in the course of everyday police work. >> Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's difficult to put a price on it. It's difficult to quantify. But all the minutes here and that certainly add up to a significant amount of efficiency savings, and we've certainly been able to demonstrate the officers are spending less time at police stations as a result and more time out on the frontline. Also they're safer because they can get information about what may or may not be and address what may or may not have occurred in an area before very, very quickly without having to wait. >> Matthew, I want to hear your observations of working so closely with this West Midlands Police. Have you noticed anything about changes in its culture? In its operating model in how police officers interact with one another? Have you seen any changes since this technology change? >> What's unique about the West Midlands Police is the buy-in from the top and the chief and his exact team and Helen is the leader from an IT perspective. The entire force is bought in so what is a significant change break ground. And that trickles through everyone in the organization change is difficult and there's a lot of time effort. There's been person to bake the technical delivery and the business change and adoption aspects around each of the projects. But you can see the step change that is making in each aspect to the organization and where that's putting West Midlands Police as a leader in by technology on policing in the UK and I think globally. >> And this is a question for both of you because Matthew, as you said, change is difficult and there is always a certain intransigence in workplaces about this is just the way we've always done things and we're used to this and don't try to get us to do anything new here, it works. How do you get the buy-in that you need to do this kind of digital transformation? >> I think it would be wrong to say it was easy. We also have to bear in mind that this was one program in a five-year program. So there was a lot of change going on both internally for some of our back office functions, as well as frontline officers. So with DDI in particular, I think that the step change occurred when people could see what it could do for them. We had lots of workshops and seminars where we all talk about big data and it's going to be great and it's data analytics and it's transformational, and quite rightly people that are very busy doing a day job that not necessarily technologists in the main and I'm particularly interested quite rightly so in what we are not dealing with the Cloud, and it was like, yeah, okay it's one more thing. And then when they started to see on their phones and what teams could do, that's when it started to sell itself. And I think that's when we started to see the stack change, and if we have any issues now it's literally our help desks in meltdown 'cause everyone's like, we can't manage without this anymore. And I think that speaks for itself. So it doesn't happen overnight. It sort of incremental changes and then that's a step change in attitude. And when they see it working and they see the benefits, they want to use it more. And that's how it's become fundamental to our policing by itself really without much selling. >> Matthew, Helen just made a compelling case for how to get buy-in. Have you discovered any other best practices when you are trying to get everyone on board for this kind of thing? >> We've used a lot of the traditional techniques, things around comms and engagement. We've also used things like 30-day challenge and nudge theory around how can we gradually encourage people to use things. I think there's a point with all of this around, how do we just keep it simple and keep it user centric from an end user perspective? I think DDI is a great example of where the technology is incredibly complex. The solution itself is extremely large and it's been very difficult to get to live it, but at the heart of it is a very simple front end for the user to encourage it and take that complexity away from them. I think that's been critical through the whole piece of DDI. >> One final word from Helen. I want to hear where do you go from here? What is the longterm vision? I know that this has made productivity savings equivalent to 154 full-time officers. What's next? >> I think really it's around exploiting what we've got. And I use the phrase quite a lot, dialing it up, which drives my technical architects crazy, but because it's apparently not that simple, but we've been through significant change in the last five years and we are still continuing to batch all of those changes into day operational policing. But what we need to see now is we need to exploit and build on the investments that we've made in terms of data and claims specifically, the next step really is about expanding our pool of data and all functions. So that we keep getting better and better at this. The more we do, the more data we have, the more refined we can be, the more precise we are with all of our actions. We're always being expected to, again, look after the public purse and do more for flavs. And I think this is certainly an applied journey and cloud-first by design, which is where we are now is helping us to be future-proofed. So for us, it's very much an investment. And I see now that we have good at embedded in operational policing for me, this is the start of our journey, not the end. So it's really exciting to see where we can go from here. >> Exciting times indeed. Thank you so much Helen and Matthew for joining us. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> And you are watching theCUBE stay tuned for more of theCUBE's coverage of the AWS reInvent Accenture Executive Summit. I'm Rebecca Knight. (upbeat music)

>>Hey, welcome back to live coverage in San Francisco, California, the cubes coverage of 80 west summit, 2022 here in SF and NYC New York city. Summit's coming up in the summer. We'll be there as well. Check it out. Okay. We've got a great guest here. C Bhan co and CEO RAI systems. Welcome to the cube, hot startup and growing company. And Kubernetes is great to see you. >>Yeah, John, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >>Great to have you on. So Cubans coming up, you got cloud native here at AWS. You guys in the middle of it, take a minute to explain what your company does. Sure. >>So 50,000 enterprises are going to modernize in the next five to 10 years. They're all going to run into the exact same problem, which is they're gonna choose Kubernetes as the orchestra platform. And then they're gonna invest in building a platform essentially on top of Kubernetes so that their internal consumers, that developers can consume it. That requires a lot, a lot of effort. We, lot of people, a lot of time, a lot of effort, what we did was we thought about entire journey for Kubernetes operations that a team would go through and we package that as an offering. It's a SaaS product that you can consume. You can make it work with Amazon's Kubernetes, Azures Kubernetes, Googles, Kubernetes, upstream, Kubernetes, but then you can move significantly faster so that the goal of modernization can be achieved now versus two years more. >>What's the big, uh, opportunity that Kubernetes brings. And what are some of the pain points that are being removed or solved or blockers being removed and pain being reduced? Is it standing up Kubernetes? Is it running it in production? Is it the new revisions? I mean, honestly, it's huge. Yeah. What's the pain point. The customers that you guys solve. >>Yeah. Look, the, the paradox with Kubernetes is when it's working. It's awesome. It's great. And we can move it fast, but to get there, it's hard. Yeah. So simple things as a starting point, how do I provision my infrastructure repeatedly in the same way with the right blueprints? How do I make sure they all look the same? How do I make sure John can access certain things? And he cannot, how do I make sure the right policies are set up? How do I make sure consistent deployment is happening? Can I watch every we think, and I measure everything and we are not beyond basic things, right? Yeah. I need to back this up, you know, on and on. I need to do cost management. I need to network policy management. I need service management. You already built the team now. Right? Each of these is, is, is multiple people's jobs sometimes. Right? So it's really complicated. But again, everybody is investing. This is complexity. It's complexity. Yes. But people are investing in this because everybody understands now that once this is all working, the beauty, the, the P the pace at which you can run is exactly what we were promised five, six years ago when we were all told about modernization. Yeah. So the, when you get there, it's awesome. And we are helping companies get there significantly faster. Then they would've had, were they not working with a company? >>It's it really is a holy grail kind of orchestration layer if it works. And a lot of people, even myself, which a big fan of Kubernetes, caution, cautions over the oo problem, which is the clusters are up. I can't find talent to run them. They're too hard. Um, that's kind of in the back of people's minds and there's a lot of scar tissue around that. Uh, and then a little bit of open stack, you know, is it too hard, too hard? So the question is, is that what needs to happen to be successful with Kubernetes to make that go faster? So that's easy to deploy. Exactly. Yeah. And what what's your product do? Is it software open source? Yeah. What's, what's your product? >>The, the key here is repeatably usable automation. It's automation that it can use again and again, and it's flexible enough that it solves for many companies problem. You know, the funny thing is, and this is something that took me a while to figure out whether we have a financial services customer or an insurance company, or a healthcare company, or a high tech company, you know, what their problems are exactly the same. <laugh> when it comes to Kubernetes, it's all the same, right? So we figured out what it takes to build that automation in a repeatable fashion so that we could essentially sell it as a product. Our product is a SaaS product. Um, and once you have the right automation in place that you can ideally consume as a service, then now the beauty is that the people who are using it on a day to day basis, they don't need to be as expert at Kubernetes as today. Yeah. And that's the issue today? The issue is, you know, people, I've seen ads now where people say, you know, looking for Kubernetes expertise, 10 years, minimum experience, okay, that's ridiculous. Right. But you see these ads out there, right? Because people are rude about it, a tool like this makes it easy for you to take your existing skillset, existing resources and allow them to become Kubernetes. >>That's the key. I think that's the key in my mind is like hiring talent for these, I call DevOps glass eating projects, cuz it's hard. Yep. Some of this stuff's hard when you get down to the early stuff. And even in the hyperscalers, you look at the early hyperscalers, they were rolling their own and they were rock stars. And they were like the 1% of top developers. Right? Yep. And now you have general audiences who just want to code. Yep. They want abstractions. They want Kubernetes as a service. Uh, and they want all the benefits. And even if they could hire the Oddsly hiring the low level core people yeah. Is hard. Yeah. >>It takes time. Yeah. >>Absolutely. That's a core problem you guys solve. >>Absolutely. I think look, the, the one thing that every enterprise you think about is when the, the big companies, the hyperscale is that you mentioned that build this themselves when they us out 5, 6, 7, whatever years ago, when, you know, even some, some of them pre Kubernetes, it was a competitive advantage to roll this out because nobody else was doing it now as, as an enterprise who is trying to use software to move faster. Yeah. It's actually a competitive disadvantage because now you're building your own product. And now you're building this thing called Kubernetes that doesn't make any sense, focus your application, focus on your products, roll them out faster, and then essentially reuse the learnings from the market. Right. That's what we are doing. Really? What, what are we doing? We're taking the best practices of this industry and packaging that up into an easy to consume platform. That's awesome. That's it? >>Well, we'll see you in Cooper, Cuban, not Kubernetes contest in Valencia. Yep. Uh, and thanks for coming on. I know we didn't have a lot of time to drill into it, um, here, but great to meet you and the company. Final question as a co-founder what's your north star, you got, you got a company to run in. Bill got employees, you're managing and hiring inspiring. What's the north star for the company. >>So I'd say, I mean, the phrase that I, that, that I think about when, when you say north star is, is loyalty with urgency. >>So loyalty to whom? Yeah. It's to my team, right? My team comes first beyond before anything else. Right? And then my customers, right? My customers, many, many of our, our customers even now, right? We a four old company, they have my cell phone number and people call me at odd hours and I will show up. I will get people on a call. I will show up. Right. That's critical. But with urgency now my customer needs help. It needs to happen now. Not tomorrow, not next week. My team has heard me say this a thousand times, by the way, not tomorrow, not next week now. And this, if you do this in a startup, you will be successful. >>Yeah. I mean, you gotta make the market as the founder, inspiring people, product market fits huge. Yep. Getting that scale point. Yep. Where you're got the value proposition in position you're in mode to scale, you got visibility on unit economics. It's hard. Yep. It's super hard look. Good news is you get in a good area. Cloud native Kubernetes, automation, cloud, native modernization of apps. Super hot right now. Yeah. Big >>Time. Yeah. Look, I mean, you know, of course you, you want your teams to be topnotch. Right. But I gotta tell you there's a lot of luck and timing to everything. >>Exactly. >>Timing is in hindsight, nobody times anything. Right. So we have, time is perfect, but it's luck. Yeah. Right. We're very lucky. We're we have the right team. We're doing a great job. I think our customers are very happy. What we've rebuilt and uh, you know, look forward >>To Steve. You're humble. And you're a humble person. I can tell. I don't believe in luck. I think you make luck. I think luck is just part of the hustle, making those phone calls, doing those calls, doing the right things, grinding. And then when you get the shot, you're ready. Yeah. Yeah. So congratulations. Thanks for coming the queue. Appreciate it. Appreciate your time, sir. Nice to meet you coverage here in San Francisco, back with more day, two coverage. After this short break, stay with us.

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service, is >> Welcome back. Rush hours started a little bit early here in New York City, with over 10,000 people in attendance for any of US Summit in New York City. I'm stupid, and my co host for today is Corey Quinn. Having a welcome to the program to first time guests from our host Amazon Web service is to my right. Here is Deepak Singh, who is the director of Compute Service's. To his right is Aaron Cow, Who's the senior manager product marketing Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Thank >> you for having us >> for having us, all right, so we know that every day we wake up and there's new announcements coming from Amazon, and the only way most of us keep up with it is trying to re Cory's newsletter here. But in your group and computer, we know there's a lot going on and quite a few announcements. So, Aaron, what do you kick us off with? Some of the hard news that went >> through this morning? Yeah, we just launched Amazon event. Bridgette's Ah, serverless event boss that allows youto connect your applications with data from sources like sass applications. A devious resource is in your own applications. >> All right, So Deepak would look to dig into that a little bit. I like you said, you that Amazon. You learned a lot from cloudwatch in building this tool. Everybody looking at kind of lambda and the service faces, Like Okay, how all these pieces together is that all? Amazon service is all the time. And, of course, Amazon has a huge ecosystem. But help help us understand a layer down. You know how this works. >> Yeah. So, you know, a dress service send events watchman consumer event from one of the best ways to do it is through Lando. Lando. One of London's biggest trends is the number off integration we have with events both taking in events and triggering event. But to your point there already events inside database system. I think one of the things as a service owner, that really excites me about event. How now? Customers of access, not just two ventricles inside eight of us were awesome apartments extended so that the application you can build will be really exciting. >> Quite a few other announcements maybe August or someone CK >> is another announcement where it's open. Source. Software development framework allows you to model your applications using programming language like typescript Job a python and got that. You know the whole thing with building in the cloud. It's slightly different. You usedto take your coat. Put it on a servant. Run it. Now people are building things a little more distributed. Using a lot of different resource is for their applications, so it's getting provisioning. Your infrastructure is a little bit harder, right? Either Have to do a lot of things manually. Are maybe you're writing. A lot of scripts are using a domain specific language, But with CD Kay, you're now able to use the programming languages that you're hurting your applications with two model and provisions your infrastructure. So it's super helpful. Really think it's gonna help developers increase their development velocity? They're able to use things like loops, conditions, object oriented programming. They don't have to do context switching and just a few lines of code. They're able to do a lot more. All right, >> I want I want a playing with it a little bit when it was in review, and one of things that I found that it was extremely helpful was it was a lot easier for me to write something in using CD kay and then see what that rendered down to in terms of cloud formation. And then, oh, I guess that's how I do it in cloud formation, which was great. The counterpoint, though, is it also felt, at times like it was super wordy. So if I read that what it generates compared to what I normally right, which is admittedly awful. But it's all right, we'll start to feel like I'm doing it wrong with that. And then with amplify and with Sam and the rest. There's a lot of higher level abstractions that build cloud formation for you. But then it renders down in a few different key ways under the hood. How much are these products that you're coming out with starting to shape the direction of confirmation itself? Or is that mostly baked and done? >> There's a lot of products that we're building that you know are complimenting information. Information is the template ing modeling language to provisional abusive resource is put on top of that. We have things like Sam, right? That provides a declared of ATM or high level abstracted declared way to build on topical information. You know, we have amplified also use this information to help you build mobile applications in front development and then finally have see decay for general use other things. They're all complimenting and you know are things customers are asking for helping us >> get the ecosystem. Deepak. The container space, of course, has been You know what one of these tidal waves that we've been watching on It's fundamentally changing the way people architect their applications. That huge impact on your product line Give us the update. If you could just start with some of the high level. Remember first when I talk to you. A couple of years ago, the whole kubernetes piece was sorting out. So you know, e c s E. K s usedto have a much longer name that Cory >> Cory. Finally, you fix the compensation problem where someone was getting compensated based upon number of syllables in a service name. So good on you on that one. >> Right on. Uh, you know, acronym, am I? Maybe you can you know, settle once and for all. You know how how we pronounce that >> I'm old school in love with the Army. >> But what what walk us through? Kind of. You know, your container service is, >> I think, the great thing about container, I said, adoption is everywhere on what we find. It brought a VCs the growth of cares where they're running it on to our fargate. Everything is growing like crazy because people find new interesting ways to run applications based on what they know. One what they're comfortable with their customers. Customers like Snap. There's no community well, and they're building on their building a big chunk of their new infrastructure on kneecaps or need to be with, and it basically helped develop a velocity. On the flip side, your customers like Turner Broadcasting that run a lot of their Web service is the comedy central content properties like that on Fargate because they can just stamp them out. They all you know, it's about time. It's a service that you can just keep expanding. So it boils down to one of the key things that you're comfortable with. One of the reasons you fix something if you are running like snap across. You know, in many different looks places you are likely to choose community and standardize on that. So that's the best part for me is people have choices and then the pic based on what they need. At that point in time, it can be two different teams at the same place. Picking a different solution. I will add that one of the areas that we are focused on now is a dub ability and develop experience, though the areas that our customers have been asking for CD Kay played into that record in the demo this morning. And with the probability with container inside on with the fluid that be announced, I think though that area, they do a lot more >> going forward, right? That was one of those cloudwatch container insights. Just explain what that one is >> so historically, when you do cloudwatch look very bm centric, you're looking at CPU memory. You're zooming application. We are instances run for a particular period of time. At the container world you have service is with the underlying tasks. Come and go all you know, a very different rate container inside. It's meant to be a world aware of the fact that you're containerized application that fast service is and part, they're able to get more fine grained metrics on the things that container customers care about. And you're not trying to use the BM centric language to look at the content. That's the biggest reason for doing that. And then on the floor in bedside Boy, our customers want loud rounding to whatever they want to do it on where they understand three or elasticsearch. We do that with data borrows. So we basically wrote a bunch of open source plug in for fluent, but they just end your log where you want them to go. That's kind of maybe a >> Yeah, I view it as more of a log router than I do. Almost anything else? Yeah, a question of where did it come from? Where does it go? How do you do? Keep straight. It's at this point. What is it out? What is it output to these days of their various destination options? Third party vendors cloudwatch history >> to plug in 14315413 because so many people in the center there with three the other one was like Anita. There. Apart from there, you can send it to read, Chef, you can send it todo you can send it to elasticsearch. So based on what however you want and I'll analyze it, you can send it to a custom resource. So you want you're using some third party provider. You can just send your logs over to those. >> Corey, you know, you're dealing with a lot of customers. You know, there's so many, you know, different instance types and some of some of the pieces. You know, what's the feedback you're giving? You know, Amazon these days >> entire depends upon the service teams, and it ranges from This is amazing. Excellent job, too. Okay, it's a good start, and it's always a question, though. It's when you have what 200 service options are darn near. It at this point aren't 70. It's impossible to wind up with something that is evenly consistent, and you have service is that air sub components of other service is built on top. I mean, I think the uh, I guess the feedback I've been giving almost universally across the board is assume that I am about 20% as smart as you right now seem to think I am and then explain it to me, and then I'll probably understand it a lot better. It comes down to service the storytelling more or less of meeting people of various points along their journey, and that I was mentioning in our editorial session just before this segment that that's something that AWS has markedly improved on the last two or three years, where you have customer stories that are rapidly moving up the up the stack as Faras Leverage Service's It's not just we took the EMS, and now we run them somewhere else. Now it's about building of extremely volume intensive applications on top of a whole bunch of managed service is and these air serious cos these air regulators. It's not just Twitter for pets anymore. >> Nothing wrong with that. No, >> So way were discussing like Enron was a great case this morning, and they talked about in the four years that they've been on, they re architected three times, you know, how do you balance all of these new wins is coming out with, you know, how do we make sure that I deploy something today that I've got the flexibility to change. But, you know, I want to be able to lock in my pricing and make it easier. >> Actually, we think about that quite a bit. One of the reasons we met, the way we did something that sits outside a container orchestrator. What? It doesn't lock you into choosing one or the other or even using an architecture. You can start over the monolith, start putting sidecars on it. It's getting with the ability to all your traffic portions of applications. You can start breaking out. You can put them on target. You can put them on PCs. You can put them on it, too. I think that is something we did very consciously because so many of our customers are in that position. And I think more and more are going to go higher up the stock using managed databases. You think lambda. But it's not decision they need to make all up front. They can do it piecemeal, and we see a custom fender. The good example there done that. >> I think one of the >> philosophies of like eight of us is giving customers building blocks the buildings on, so the whole thing is here's a new primitive that you can use. Then you can take it out, replace something with something else, depending on your needs. So we give customers flexibility and choice. >> And part of the problem is that that very much becomes a double edged sword. I mean, most recently you've had effectively declared war on alphabet. I don't mean the large cloud provider that turns things off for a living. I'm talking about the English alphabet where you take a look at all the different ec2 instance types. I think in US East one. Now there's over. What is it? 100 90 different instances you can pick from. It leads to analysis paralysis. Which one do I pick? What's the right answer? What am I committing to? What am I not? And you see that? That's a microcosm. The larger service problem. I want to build a Web app that does a thing. Which service is do I use? You open up the service listing and you just get this sort of sinking sensation. I get that. I can't imagine what someone new to the space is getting to >> you, and this is where things like amplify fargate aws patch. You don't need to select an instance where you just tell us for your requirements are on Batch makes that collection for you the core building. What's important because you can't really figure out what to do. But then you see us too much more about the attack to help people get there. It's an ongoing thing that will keep trying to tackle, but you see a lot more of that. >> It's controversial. One of my favorite things about Lambda, for example, is there's one knob ram, and as you turn that up, other performance characteristics increase and people complain about it. But I love the simplicity because I don't have to sit and think and make all these different decisions. It's one access, >> but if you want more knob, you can you fuck it. So I think that that's the beauty ofit that you do have that choice. >> Yeah, one lines there, and I really liked it. Borders keynote. Is he said way? Really? You know my words, commoditized. I t We all have access to all of the tools now, you know that was you know what big date originally file. It also was used to have to be a nation state 4100 to be able to do some of these things. So, you know, what do you hear from customers? How do they make sure you know, they're staying competitive and ahead on their four in that relationship between the business and I T. What do you hear from your customers these days? >> In terms of that? Well, I think, um, for you know, for customers like I think of Emperor age is a, uh, a pretty good example off that in terms of customers asking us for ability to, you know, integrate their SAS providers and a great a lot of different things and not have thio you No, no, no. >> I have >> to do a lot of undifferentiated heavy lifting and things like that. And customers are increasingly moving towards, like avenger oven architectures. And they asked us, Hey, we really like cloudwatch events and how you do things with a iittie automation and then bringing SAS providers and on way wantto you know, we don't want to build a polling infrastructure and orderto access athe eyes and do all all the heavy lifting. What we did was we built out way took cloudwatch events and added new features for SAS applications and build that into a separate service for people to use. That's like, you know, a lot of the relationships we have our customers listening to what they need and giving them what they want. >> I think that that's a very valuable thing. We used to say, You know, five years ago you would talk about, you know, let's get rid of indifferent, heavy lifting Well, now it's like, No, no, let's enable you know some thing that you would have thought was heavy lifting and we're daunted to be able to do it. But now hopefully it's easier because a lot of this stuff, you know, he said, This is still a little bit daunting, and you know, you've got a lot of ecosystem and service providers, and service is help us. You take care of, you know, because it's the paradox of choice. With all the options that you >> have on. I think that's the beauty of what I'm in a customer that smart. They managed to find interesting ways to keep challenging us and keep us busy. But I also think that really, really many of them the ones who've been able to be successful. I figured out what it needs to be. Take all the tools to give them which other ones where they want to completely hand it over to AWS and give us the responsibility. And then which ones today really feeling, get they care about and the ones who can find their balance of the ones that we see moving faster. I think that's what we're trying to >> write that one thing that does absolutely permeates virtually every service team I've worked with that AWS. I mean, I've had this experience with you where I talk about how my use case isn't a terrific fit for your product, and your response is always well, what is your use case? It's not. Is starting off on the baseline assumption that my use cases ridiculous, which, let's face it, it probably is. But being able to address a customer need to understand that even if it doesn't dictate, road map is incredibly valuable, and I don't find there are too many players in any space, let alone this one that are willing to have the patience to listen to. Frankly, some loud person wearing a suit. >> Way try. I mean, I think you heard me say this so much like a big junk. 85 90% of a road map. Customer request. I would say that even though remember remaining 10% maybe not think that they're directly asked for but think that you observed their running to or that we run into working with, you know, the one of the customers go ahead of the pack. Okay. They have this problem, Baker. How do you generalize that? And we try and understand what it means. One of the reasons to be made the container road map public was This space is moving so quickly. It's almost impossible for us to talk to enough customers to figure that out. So, like, okay, that gives us an avenue for them to come to us and just tell us and get have >> issues. Yeah, s o right. Final question for both of you directions. Looking forward, you know, the road map we love when there is publicly facing material, not under the NBA's that we normally have to be able to hear. So what are you hearing from your customers? What direction are they pulling you towards and that we should expect tow watch aws kind of a cz we head towards reinvent later this year. Yeah, >> like customers are asking us for different things for developer experience, especially event driven architectures. I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting things happening in the land of space and that entire space >> on to add to that. I think your point earlier helping the simplified choices is going to be a big part of it. Meeting them where they are in their ideas with the cooling is a big part of what you'll see us do. So you know, I think you saw examples today. We'll keep building on top of >> All right. Well, send our congratulations to the two pizza teams that worked on all of the projects that were announced today. Look forward to seeing you. You know, down the road in tracking down. Thanks so much. And welcome to be in Cuba one night having us Deepak, you know, from AWS. He's Cory Quinn on student back with lots more coverage from 80 West Summit here in New York City. Thanks for watching