(gentle music) >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE's presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase. The theme is Data as Code; The Future of Enterprise Data and Analytics. This is the season two, episode two of the ongoing series of covering the exciting startups in the AWS ecosystem around data analytics and cloud computing. I'm your host, John Furrier. Today we're joined by great guests here. Three guests. Wen Phan, who's a Director of Product Management at Ahana, Satyam Krishna, Engineering Manager at Blinkit, and we have Akshay Agarwal, Senior Engineer at Blinkit as well. We're going to get into the relationship there. Let's get into. We're going to talk about how Blinkit's using open data lake, data house with Presto on AWS. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we're going to get into the deep dive on the open data lake, but I want to just quickly get your thoughts on what it is for the folks out there. Set the table. What is the open data lakehouse? Why it is important? What's in it for the customers? Why are we seeing adoption around this because this is a big story. >> Sure. Yeah, the open data lakehouse is really being able to run a gamut of analytics, whether it be BI, SQL, machine learning, data science, on top of the data lake, which is based on inexpensive, low cost, scalable storage. And more importantly, it's also on top of open formats. And this to the end customer really offers a tremendous range of flexibility. They can run a bunch of use cases on the same storage and great price performance. >> You guys have any other thoughts on what's your reaction to the lakehouse? What is your experience with it? What's going on with Blinkit? >> No, I think for us also, it has been the primary driver of how as a company we have shifted our completely delivery model from us delivering in one day to someone who is delivering in 10 minutes, right? And a lot of this was made possible by having this kind of architecture in place, which helps us to be more open-source, more... where the tools are open-source, we have an open table format which helps us be very modular in nature, meaning we can pick solutions which works best for us, right? And that is the kind of architecture that we want to be in. >> Awesome. Wen, you know last time we chat with Ahana, we had a great conversation around Presto, data. The theme of this episode is Data as Code, which is interesting because in all the conversations in these episodes all around developers, which administrators are turning into developers, there's a developer vibe with data. And with opensource, it's software. Now you've got data taking a similar trajectory as how software development was with code, but the people running data they're not developers, they're administrators, they're operators. Now they're turning into DataOps. So it's kind of a similar vibe going on with branches and taking stuff out of and putting it back in, and testing it. Datasets becoming much more stable, iterating on machine learning algorithm. This is a movement. What's your guys reaction before we get into the relationships here with you guys. But, what's your reaction to this Data as Code movement? >> Yeah, so I think the folks at Blinkit are doing a great job there. I mean, they have a pretty compact data engineering team and they have some pretty stringent SLAs, as well as in terms of time to value and reliability. And what that ultimately translates for them is not only flexibility but reliability. So they've done some very fantastic work on a lot of automation, a lot of integration with code, and their data pipelines. And I'm sure they can give the details on that. >> Yes. Satyam and Akshay, you guys are engineers' software, but this is becoming a whole another paradigm where the frontline coding and or work or engineer data engineering is implementing the operations as well. It's kind of like DevOps for data. >> For sure. Right. And I think whenever you're working, even as a software engineer, the understanding of business is equally important. You cannot be working on something and be away from business, right? And that's where, like I mentioned earlier, when we realized that we have to completely move our stack and start giving analytics at 10 minutes, right. Because when you're delivering in 10 minutes, your leaders want to take decisions in your real-time. That means you need to move with them. You need to move with business. And when you do that, the kind of flexibility these softwares give is what enables the businesses at the end of the day. >> Awesome. This is the really kind of like, is there going to be a book called agile data warehouses? I don't think so. >> I think so. (laughing) >> The agile cloud data. This is cool. So let's get into what you guys do. What is Blinkit up to? What do you guys do? Can you take a minute to explain the company and your product? >> Sure. I'll take that. So Blinkit is India's biggest 10 minute delivery platform. It pioneered the delivery model in the country with over 10 million Indian shopping on our platform, ranging from everything: grocery staples, vegetables, emergency services, electronics, and much more, right. It currently delivers over 200,000 orders every day, and is in a hurry to bring the future of farmers to everyone in India. >> What's the relationship with Ahana and Blinkit? Wen, what's the tie in? >> Yeah, so Blinkit had a pretty well formed stack. They needed a little bit more flexibility and control. They thought a managed service was the way to go. And here at Ahana, we provide a SaaS managed service for Presto. So they engaged us and they evaluated our offering. And more importantly, we're able to partner. As a early stage startup, we really rely on very strong partners with great use cases that are willing to collaborate. And the folks at Blinkit have been really great in helping us push our product, develop our product. And we've been very happy about the value that we've been able to deliver to them as well. >> Okay. So let's unpack the open data lakehouse. What is it? What's under the covers? Let's get into it. >> Sure. So if bring up a slide. Like I said before, it's really a paradigm on being able to run a gamut of analytics on top of the open data lake. So what does that mean? How did it come about? So on the left hand side of the slide, we are coming out of this world where for the last several decades, the primary workhorse for SQL based processing and reporting and dashboarding use cases was really the data warehouse. And what we're seeing is a shift due to the trends in inexpensive scalable storage, cloud storage. The proliferation of open formats to facilitate using this storage to get certain amounts of reliability and performance, and the adoption of frameworks that can operate on top of this cloud data lake. So while here at Ahana, we're primarily focused on SQL workloads and Presto, this architecture really allows for other types of frameworks. And you see the ML and AI side. And like to Satyam's point earlier, offers a great amount of flexibility modularity for many use cases in the cloud. So really, that's really the lakehouse, and people like it for the performance, the openness, and the price performance. >> How's the open-source open side of it playing in the open-source? It's kind of open formats. What is the open-source angle on this because there's a lot of different approaches. I'm hearing open formats. You know, you have data stores which are a big part of seeing that. You got SQL, you mentioned SQL. There's got a mishmash of opportunities. Is it all coexisting? Is it one tool to rule the world or is it interchangeable? What's the open-source angle? >> There's multiple angles and I'll let definitely Satyam add to what I'm saying. This was definitely a big piece for Blinkit. So on one hand, you have the open formats. And what really the open formats enable is multiple compute engines to work on that data. And that's very huge. 'Cause it's open, you're not locked in. I think the other part of open that is important and I think it was important to Blinkit was the governance around that. So in particular Presto is governed by the Linux Foundation. And so, as a customer of open-source technology, they want some assurances for things like how's it governed? Is the license going to change? So there's that aspect of openness that I think is very important. >> Yeah. Blinkit, what's the data strategy here with lakehouse and you guys? Why are you adopting this type of architecture? >> So adding to what... Yeah, I think adding to Wen said, right. When we are thinking in terms of all these OpenStacks, you have got these open table formats, everything which is deployed over cloud, the primary reason there is modularity. It's as simple as that, right. You can plug and play so many different table formats from one thing to another based on the use case that you're trying to serve, so that you get the most value out of data. Right? I'll give you a very simple example. So for us we use... not even use one single table format. It's not that one thing solves for everything, right? We use both Hudi and Iceberg to solve for different use cases. One is good for when you're working for a certain data site. Icebergs works well when you're in the SQL kind of interface, right. Hudi's still trying to reach there. It's going to go there very soon. So having the ability to plug and play different formats based on the use case helps you to grow faster, helps you to take decisions faster because you now you're not stuck on one thing. They will have to implement it. Right. So I think that's what it is great about this data lake strategy. Keeping yourself cost effective. Yeah, please. >> So the enablement is basically use case driven. You don't have to be rearchitecturing for use cases. You can simply plug can play based on what you need for the use case. >> Yeah. You can... and again, you can focus on your business use case. You can figure out what your business users need and not worry about these things because that's where Presto comes in, helps you stitch that data together with multiple data formats, give you the performance that you need and it works out the best there. And that's something that you don't get to with traditional warehouse these days. Right? The kind of thing that we need, you don't get that. >> I do want to add. This is just to riff on what Satyam said. I think it's pretty interesting. So, it really allowed him to take the best-of-breed of what he was seeing in the community, right? So in the case of table formats, you've got Delta, you've got Hudi, you've got Iceberg, and they all have got their own roadmap and it's kind of organic of how these different communities want to evolve, and I think that's great, but you have these end consumers like Blinkit who have different maybe use cases overlapping, and they're not forced to pick one. When you have an open architecture, they can really put together best-of-breed. And as these projects evolve, they can continue to monitor it and then make decisions and continue to remain agile based on the landscape and how it's evolving. >> So the agility is a key point. Flexibility and agility, and time to valuing with your data. >> Yeah. >> All right. Wen, I got to get in to why the Presto is important here. Where does that fit in? Why is Presto important? >> Yeah. For me, it all comes down to the use cases and the needs. And reporting and dashboarding is not going to go away anytime soon. It's a very common use case. Many of our customers like Blinkit come to us for that use case. The difference now is today, people want to do that particular use case on top of the modern data lake, on top of scalable, inexpensive, low cost storage. Right? In addition to that, there's a need for this low latency interactive ability to engage with the data. This is often arises when you need to do things in a ad hoc basis or you're in the developmental phase of building things up. So if that's what your need is. And latency's important and getting your arms around the problems, very important. You have a certain SLA, I need to deliver something. That puts some requirements in the technology. And Presto is a perfect for that ideal use case. It's ideal for that use case. It's distributed, it's scalable, it's in memory. And so it's able to really provide that. I think the other benefit for Presto and why we're bidding on Presto is it works well on the data lakes, but you have to think about how are these organizations maturing with this technology. So it's not necessarily an all or nothing. You have organizations that have maybe the data lake and it's augmented with other analytical data stores like Snowflake or Redshift. So Presto also... a core aspect is its ability to federate or connect and query across different data sources. So this can be a permanent thing. This could also be a transitionary thing. We have some customers that are moving and slowly shifting their data portfolio from maybe all data warehouse into 80% data lake. But it gives that optionality, it gives that ability to transition over a timeframe. But for all those reasons, the latency, the scalability, the federation, is why Presto for this particular use case. >> And you can connect with other databases. It can be purpose built database, could be whatever. Right? >> Sure. Yes, yes. Presto has a very pluggable architecture. >> Okay. Here's the question for the Blinkit team? Why did you choose Presto and what led you to Ahana? >> So I'll take this better, over this what Presto sits well in that reach is, is how it is designed. Like basically, Presto decouples your storage with the compute. Basically like, people can use any storage and Presto just works as a query engine for them. So basically, it has a constant connectors where you can connect with a real-time databases like Pinot or a Druid, along with your warehouses like Redshift, along with your data lake that's like based on Hudi or Iceberg. So it's like a very landscape that you can use with the Presto. And consumers like the analytics doesn't need to learn the SQL or different paradigms of the querying for different sources. They just need to learn a single source. And, they get a single place to consume from. They get a single consumer on their single destination to write on also. So, it's a homologous architecture, which allows you to put a central security like which Presto integrates. So it's also based on open architecture, that's Apache engine. And it has also certain innovative features that you can see based on caching, which reduces a lot of the cost. And since you have further decoupled your storage with the compute, you can further reduce your cost, because now the biggest part of our tradition warehouse is a storage. And the cost goes massively upwards with the amount of data that you've added. Like basically, each time that you add more data, you require more storage, and warehouses ask you to write the data in their own format. Over here since we have decoupled that, the storage cost have gone down. It's literally that your cost that you are writing, and you just pay for the compute, and you can scale in scale out based on the requirements. If you have high traffic, you scale out. If you have low traffic, you scale in. So all those. >> So huge cost savings. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cost effectiveness, for sure. >> Cost effectiveness and you get a very good price value out of it. Like for each query, you can estimate what's the cost for you based on that tracking and all those things. >> I mean, if you think about the other classic Iceberg and what's under the water you don't know, it's the hidden cost. You think about the tooling, right, and also, time it takes to do stuff. So if you have flexibility on choice, when we were riffing on this last time we chatted with you guys and you brought it up earlier around, you can have the open formats to have different use cases in different tools or different platforms to work on it. Redshift, you can use Redshift here, or use something over there. You don't have to get locking >> Absolutely. >> Satyam & Akshay: Yeah. >> Locking is a huge problem. How do you guys see that 'cause sounds like here there's not a lot of locking. You got the open formats, and you got choice. >> Yeah. So you get best of the both worlds. Like you get with Ahana or with the Presto, you can get the best of the both worlds. Since it's cloud native, you can easily deploy your clusters very easily within like five minutes. Your cluster is up, you can start working on it. You can deploy multiple clusters for multiple teams. You get also flexibility of adding new connectors since it's open and further it's also much more secure since it's based on cloud native. So basically, you can control your security endpoints very well. So all those things comes in together with this architecture. So you can definitely go more on the lakehouse architecture than warehousing when you want to deliver data value faster. And basically, you get the much more high value out of your data in a sorted template. >> So Satyam, it sounds like the old warehousing was like the application person, not a lot of usage, old, a lot of latency. Okay. Here and there. But now you got more speed to deploy clusters, scale up scale down. Application developers are as everyone. It's not one person. It's not one group. It's whenever you want. So, you got speed. You got more diversity in the data opportunities, and your coding. >> Yeah. I think data warehouses are a way to start for every organization who is getting into data. I don't think data warehousing is still a solution and will be a solution for a lot of teams which are still getting into data. But as soon as you start scaling, as you start seeing the cost going up, as you start seeing the number of use cases adding up, having an open format definitely helps. So, I would say that's where we are also heading into and that's how our journey as well started with Presto as well, why we even thought about Ahana, right. >> (John chuckles) >> So, like you mentioned, one of the things that happened was as we were moving to the lakehouse and the open table format, I think Ahana is one of the first ones in the market to have Hudi as a first class citizen completely supported with all the things which are not even present at the time of... even with Presto, right. So we see Ahana working behind the scenes, improving even some of the things already over the open-source ecosystem. And that's where we get the most value out of Ahana as well. >> This is the convergence of open-source magic and commercialization. Wen, because you think about Data as Code, reminds me, I hear, "Data warehouse, it's not going to go away." But you got cloud scale or scale. It reminds me of the old, "Oh yeah, I have a data center." Well, here comes the cloud. So, doesn't really kill the data center, although Amazon would say that the data center's going to be eliminated. No, you just use it for whatever you need it for. You use it for specific use cases, but everyone, all the action goes to the cloud for scale. The same things happen with data, and look at the open-source community. It's kind of coming together. Data as Code is coming together. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I do want to again to connect on another dot in terms of cost and that. You know, we've been talking a little bit about price performance, but there's an implicit cost, and I think this was also very important to Blinkit, and also why we're offering a managed service. So one piece of it. And it really revolves around the people, right? So outside of the technology, the performance. One thing that Akshay brought up and it's another important piece that I should have highlighted a little bit more is, Presto exposes the ability to interact your data in a widely adopted way, which is basically ANSI SQL. So the ability for your practitioners to use this technology is huge. That's just regular Presto. In terms of a managed service, the guys at Blinkit are a great high performing team, but they have to be very efficient with their time and what they manage. And what we're trying to do is provide leverage for them. So take a lot of the heavy lifting away, but at the same time, figuring out the right things to expose so that they have that same flexibility. And that's been the balancing point that we've been trying to balance at Ahana, but that goes back to cost. How do I total cost of ownership? And that not doesn't include just the actual querying processing time, but the ability for the organization to go ahead and absorb the solution. And what does it cost in terms of the people involved? >> Yeah. Great conversation. I mean, this brings up the question of back in the data center, the cloud days, you had the concept of an SRE, which is now popular, site reliability engineer. One person does all the clusters and manages all the scale. Is the data engineer the new SRE for data? Are we seeing a similar trajectory? Just want to get your reaction. What do you guys think? >> Yes, so I would say, definitely. It depends on the teams and the sizes of that. We are high performing team so each automation takes bits on the pieces of the architecture, like where they want to invest in. And it comes out with the value of the engineer's time and basically like how much they can invest in, how much they need to configure the architecture, and how much time it'll take to time to market. So basically like, this is what I would also highlight as an engineer. I found Ahana like the... I would say as a Presto in a cloud native environment, or I think so there's the one in the market that seamlessly scales and then scales out. And further, with a team of us, I would say our team size like three to four engineers managing cluster day in day out, conferring, tuning and all those things takes a lot of time. And Ahana came in and takes it off our plate and the hands in a solution which works out of box. So that's where this comes in. Ahana it's also based on open-source community. >> So the time of the engineer's time is so valuable. >> Yeah. >> My take on it really in terms of the data engineering being the SRE. I think that can work, it depends on the actual person, and we definitely try to make the process as easy as possible. I think in Blinkit's case, you guys are... There are data platform owners, but they definitely are aware of the pipelines. >> John: Yeah. >> So they have very intimate knowledge of what data engineers do, but I think in their case, you guys, you're managing a ton of systems. So it's not just even Presto. They have a ton of systems and surfacing that interface so they can cater to all the data engineers across their data systems, I think is the big need for them. I know you guys you want to chime in. I mean, we've seen the architecture and things like that. I think you guys did an amazing job there. >> So, and to adding to Wen's point, right. Like I generally think what DevOps is to the tech team. I think, what is data engineer or the data teams are to the data organization, right? Like they play a very similar role that you have to act as a guardrail to ensure that everyone has access to the data so the democratizing and everything is there, but that has to also come with security, right? And when you do that, there are (indistinct) a lot of points where someone can interact with data. We have... And again, there's a mixed match of open-source tools that works well, as well. And there are some paid tools as well. So for us like for visualization, we use Redash for our ad hoc analysis. And we use Tableau as well whenever we want to give a very concise reporting. We have Jupyter notebooks in place and we have EMRs as well. So we always have a mixed batch of things where people can interact with data. And most of our time is spent in acting as that guardrail to ensure that everyone should have access to data, but it shouldn't be exploited, right. And I think that's where we spend most of our time in. >> Yeah. And I think the time is valuable, but that your point about the democratization aspect of it, there seems to be a bigger step function value that you're enabling and needs to be talked out. The 10x engineer, it's more like 50x, right? If you get it done right, the enablement downstream at the scale that we're seeing with this new trend is significant. It's not just, oh yeah, visualization and get some data quicker, there's actually real advantages on a multiple with that engineering. So, and we saw that with DevOps, right? Like, you do this right and then magic happens on the edges. So, yeah, it's interesting. You guys, congratulations. Great environment. Thanks for sharing the insight Blinkit. Wen, great to see you. Ahana again with Presto, congratulations. The open-source meets data engineering. Thanks so much. >> Thanks, John. >> Appreciate it. >> Okay. >> Thanks John. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for having us. >> This season two, episode two of our ongoing series. This one is Data as Code. This is theCUBE. I'm John furrier. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

(ethereal music) >> Welcome to the special Cube Conversation. I'm John Furrier, your host of "The Cube" here in Palo Alto, California. We've got two great remote guests here having a conversation around security, security convergence with platforms around networking and security with cybersecurity at an all time high, the need for understanding how to manage the breaches how to understand them, prevent them, everything in between cybersecurity and data are the number one conversation happening in the world today. We got two great guests, we've got Nirav Shah, VP of products at Fortinet and Peter Newton's senior director of products at Fortinet. The product leaders in the hottest cybersecurity company. And guys, thanks for coming on this Cube Conversation. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you, John. >> So last month or so I talked to John Madison about the Fortinet new release, FortiOS 7.0, as well as highlighting the convergence that's going on between the platforms around companies trying to consolidate and or manage or grow and build, converting networking and security together. Seeing that happening in real time, still doesn't change the underpinnings of how the internet works, and how these companies are structured. But the need for security is at an all time high. Talk about the impact to the customer. Do you guys have the keys to the kingdom here, product group? What is the killer product? What are customers doing? Give us the overview of why there's such a big need for the security platforms right now. >> Yeah, absolutely John. So if you see today's environment, we have seen working from anywhere it's become normal. And as part of that, we have seen so many different network edges. At the same time, they have different devices that they're using from anywhere. So what's important is as users have different devices, different users and applications that they're consuming from Cloud, we have to make sure that we provide security across the endpoint, across all network edges, and going to the Cloud compute. And for that kind of approach, you cannot have point products provide the visibility control and management. You need to have a comprehensive cybersecurity platform, which gives you security from that endpoint, to the edge, to the user, so that you have a simple but effective management and have a solid security in place to get that working from anywhere in a much more better user experience way. And that's exactly Fortinet describes as the security fabric platform. >> It's interesting not to kind of go on a tangent here, but to illustrate the point is, if you look at all the cyber security challenges that we're facing globally, especially here in the United States, the public private partnerships are increasing. We're seeing more public sector, commercial integration, the role of data. We've covered this on SiliconANGLE and many other cube interviews, especially with you guys. And there's all this kind of new approaches. Everyone's trying everything. They're buying every product that's out there, but now there's like overload. There's too much product. And that the obvious thing that's becoming clear, as cloud-scale, the evolution of this new edge environment. And so with that becomes the importance two trends that you guys are participating in. I want to get your thoughts on this because that's called SASE and SD-WAN. We know SD-WAN, but SASE stands for Secure Access Service Edge. That's I think Gartner made that term up or someone made that term up, but that's a new technology. And you've got SD-WAN, these are traditionally had been like edge for like branch offices. Now evolve now as pure network edges than a distributed computing environment. What's so important about these two topics. Nirav take us through the changes that are happening and why it's important for enterprises to get a handle on this >> Yeah John. So, as you said, SASE, Secured Access Services Edge. Really the foundation of that topic is the convergence of networking and security. And as you mentioned, Fortinet has been doing a lot of innovation in this area, right? Six years back, we pioneered the convergence of security and networking with security SD-WAN but what's happening now with the SASE is, as that working from anywhere continues to remain the dominant trend, users are looking for a Cloud-Delivered Security. And that's what Fortinet recently announced, where we can provide the most comprehensive Cloud-Delivered Security for remote users. For thin edge. You can still, anytime access from any device. To give you an example, now, our remote users, they are still at home or they can be branch of one user, but still have that always on threat protection with the consistent security given in the Cloud. So they don't have to go anymore from the branch or data center, but have a direct connectivity to the Cloud Security before they access SaaS application. That's what one of the SASE trend is. Second thing, John we are observing is users are now, as they are going back to the hybrid workforce, they are looking for a thin edge right? To your point of an edge, edge is still intelligent and a very important but there is an interesting architectural shift of, can I just use an intelligent networking there move my CapEx to OPEX and have security in Cloud? That unified security, unified policy is again becoming important. That's what SASE-- >> Okay, so I like this Cloud-Delivered Security. This is a hybrid workforce you're addressing with this marketplace, that's clear. Hybrid is a everywhere, hybrid cloud, hybrid workforce, hybrid events are coming. I mean, we love covering events physically but also now virtual. Everything's impacted by the word hybrid and Cloud. But talk about this thin edge. What do you mean by that? I mean I think thin edge, I think thin clients, the old trend. What is thin edge mean? >> Yeah, so there're different organizations are looking at the architecture in a different way. Some organizations are thinking about having a very simple branch where it is used for modern networking technologies, while security has been shifted to the Cloud deliver. What happens with this model is, now they are relying more into technologies like SD-WAN on edge to provide that intelligence steering, while everything in the security is being done in a Cloud compute way for both remote users and thin edge environment. Now the good news here is, they don't have to worry about the security patching, or any of those security capabilities. It is all done by Fortinet as they go and use the SaaS applications performance >> I want to come back and drill down on that but I want to get Peter in here in the Zero Trust equation because one of the things that comes up all the time with this edge discussion is network access. I mean, you go back to the old days of computing, you had edge log in, you'd come in, radius servers, all these things were happening, pretty simple cut paradigm. It's gotten so complicated now, Peter. So Zero Trust is a hot area. It's not only one of the things but it's a super important, what is Zero Trust these days? >> Zero Trust is indeed a very hot term because I think part of it is just it sounds great from a security standpoint, Zero Trust, you don't trust anyone, but it really comes down to a philosophical approach of how do you address the user's data applications that you want to protect? And the idea of Zero Trust and really what's driving it is the fact that as we've been talking, people are working remotely. The perimeter of the organization has dissolved. And so you no longer can afford to have a trusted internal zone and an untrusted external zone. Everything has to be "Zero Trust." So this means that you need to be authenticating and verifying users and devices on a repeat and regular basis, and you want to when you're bringing them on and giving them access to assets and applications, you want to do that with as granular of control as possible. So the users and devices have access to what they need, but no more. And that's kind of the basic tenets of Zero Trust. And that's what, it's really about prioritizing the applications and data, as opposed to just looking at, am I bringing someone into my network. >> God, the concept of Zero Trust, obviously hot. What's the difference between Zero Trust Access and Zero Trust Network Access, or as people say ZTA versus ZTNA? I mean, is there a nuance there? I mean, what's the difference between the two? >> That's actually a really good question because they both have the Zero Trust in the name. ZTNA is actually a specific term that a Gardner created or other analyst I should say, created 10 years ago. And this refers specifically to controlling application to controlling access to applications. whereas Zero Trust, overall Zero Trust access deals with both users and devices coming on to networks, how are you connecting them on? What kind of access are you giving them on the network? ZTNA is specifically how are you bringing users and connecting them to applications? Whether those applications are on premise or in the Cloud. >> So what the NA is more like the traditional old VPN model connecting users from home or whatever. Just connecting across the network with user to app. Is that right? >> That's actually a really good insight, but ironically the VPN clinical benefits of this are actually an outgrowth of the ZTNA model because ZTA doesn't differentiate between when you're on network or off network. It creates a secure tunnel automatically no matter where the user is, but VPN is all just about creating a secure tunnel when you're remote. ZTNA just does that automatically. So it's a lot easier, a lot simpler. You get a hundred percent compliance and then you also have that same secure tunnel even when you're "on a safe network" because with Zero Trust, you don't trust anything. So yes it really is leading to the evolution of VPN connectivity. >> So Nirav I want to get back to you on tie that circle back to what we were talking about around hybrid. So everyone says everything's moving to the Cloud. That's what people think. And Cloud ops is essentially what hybrid is. So connect the dots here between the zero trust, zero trust A and NA with the move to the hybrid cloud model. How does that, how does it, what's the difference between the two? Where's the connection? What's the relevance for your customers and the marketplace? >> Yeah, I think that again goes back to that SASE framework where ZTNA plays a huge role because John, we talked about when users are working from anywhere in this hybrid workforce, one of the important thing is to not give them this implicit trust right? To the applications, enabling the explicit trust is very important. And that is what ZTNA does. And the interesting thing about Fortinet is we provide all of this part of FortiOS and users can deploy anywhere. So as they are going to the Cloud-Delivered Security, they can enable ZTNA there so that we make sure this user at what time, which application they're accessing and should we give them that access or not. So great way to have ZTNA, SASE, everything in one unified policy and provide that anytime access for any device with a trusting place. >> Okay, real quick question to you is, what's the difference between SASE, Secure Access Service Edge, and SD-WAN? Real quick. >> Yeah, so SD-WAN is one of the core foundation element of SASE, right? So far we talked about the Cloud-Delivered Security, which is all important part of the security of the service. SASE is another element, which is a networking and a service where SD-WAN plays a foundation role. And John that's where I was saying earlier that the intelligent edge modern technology that SD-WAN provides is absolutely necessary for a successful SASE deployment, right? If users who are sitting anywhere, if they can't get the right application steering, before they provide the Cloud-Delivered Security, then they are not going to get the user experience. So having the right SD-WAN foundation in that edge, working in tandem with the Cloud-Delivered Security makes a win-win situation for both networking and security teams. >> So Peter, I want to talk to you. Last night I was on a chat on the Clubhouse app with some cybersecurity folks and they don't talk in terms of "I got ZTNA and I got some SASE and SD-WEN, they're talking mostly about just holistically their environment. So could you just clarify the difference 'cause this can be confusing between Zero Trust Network Access ZTNA versus SASE because it's kind of the same thing, but I know it's nuance, but, is there a difference there? People get confused by this when I hear people talking 'cause like they just throw jargon around and they say, "Oh, with Zero Trust we're good. What does that even mean? >> Yeah, we get a lot of that when talking with customers because the two technologies are so complimentary and similar, they're both dealing with security for remote workers. However sassy is really dealing with that kind of firewall in the Cloud type service, where the remote user gets the experience and protection of being behind a firewall, ZTNA is about controlling the application and giving them that secure tunnel to the application. So they're different things one's kind of that firewall and service, security and service, even networking in a service. But ZTNA is really about, how do I have the policies no matter where our user is, to give them access to specific applications and then give them a secure tunnel to that application? So very complimentary, but again, they are separate things. >> What's the landscape out there with competitive because has there products, I mean you guys are product folks. You'll get the product question. Is it all kind of in one thing, is this bundled in? Do you guys have a unique solution? Some people have it, they don't. What's the marketplace look like from a product standpoint? >> Yeah. So John, that starts back to the platform that we talked about, right? Fortinet always believes in not to develop a point product, but doing organic development which is part of a broader platform. So when we look at the thing like SASE, which required a really enterprise grade networking and security stack, Fortinet has organically developed them SD-WAN, we are a leading vendor, for the Gartner magic quadrant leader there, network firewall, including whether they deployed on Cloud, on-prem or a segmentation. We are a leader there. So when you combine both of them and ZTNA is part of it, there is only handful of vendor you will see in the industry who can provide the consistent security, networking, and security together and have that better user experience for the single management. So clearly there's a lot of buzz John, about a lot of vendors talk about it. But when you go to the details and see this kind of unified policy of networking and security, Fortinet is emerging as a leader. >> Well I always like talking the experts like you guys on this topic. And we get into the conversations around the importance under the hood. SASE, SD-WEN, we've been covering that for a long time. And now with Zero Trust becoming such a prominent architectural feature in Cloud and hybrid, super important under the hood. At the end of the day though, I got to ask the customers question, which is, "what's in it for me? "I care about breaches. "I don't want to be breached. "The government's not helping me over the top. "I got to defend myself. "I have to put resources in place, it's expensive, "and nevermind if I get breached." The criticality of that alone, is a risk management discussion. These are huge table. These are huge stakes and the stakes are high. So what I care about is are you going to stop the breaches? I need the best security in town. What do you say to that? >> Yeah this goes back to the beginning. We talked about consistent certified security, right John. So yes a SASE model is interesting. Customers are going to move to Cloud, but it's going to be a journey. Customers are not going Cloud first day one. They are going to take a hybrid approach where security is required in a segment, in an edge and on the Cloud. And that's where having a solid security in place is a number one requirement. And when you look at the history of Fortinet, over the last 20 years, how we have done, with our FortiGuard Labs, our threat intelligence and ability for us to protect over 450,000 customers, that's a big achievement. And for us to continue to provide that security but more importantly, continue to go out, and do a third-party certification with many organization to make sure no matter where customers are deploying security, it is that same enterprise grade security deployment. And that's very important that we talk to our users to make sure they validate that. >> Peter would weigh in on this. Customers don't want any breaches. How do you help them with the best security? What's your take on that? >> Well, to kind of reiterate what Nirav said earlier, we really believe that security is a team sport. And you do need best in class products at each individual element, but more importantly you need those products we talking together. So the fact that we have industry leading firewalls, the fact that we have industry-leading SD-WAN, we've got industry leading products to cover the entire gamut of the end point all the way email application, Cloud, all these products while it's important that they're, third-party validated as Nirav was mentioning, it's more important that they actually talk together. They're integrated and provide automated actions. Today's cyber security moves so fast. You need that team approach to be able to protect and stop those breaches. >> Well, you guys have a great enterprise grade solution. I got to say, I've been covering you guys for many years now and you guys have been upfront, out front on the data aspect of it with FortiGuards. And I think people are starting to realize now that data is the key, value proposition is not a secret anymore. Used to be kind of known for the people inside the ropes. So congratulations. I do know that there's a lot action happening. I want to give you guys a chance to at the end of this conversation now to just put a plug in Fortinet because there's more people coming into the workforce now. Post pandemic, young people with computer science degrees and other degrees that want to go into career with cybersecurity, could you guys share both your perspective on for the young people watching or people re-skilling, what opportunities there are from a coding standpoint, and or from say an analyst perspective. What are some of the hot openings? 'cause there are thousands and thousands of jobs give a quick plug for Fortinet and what openings you guys might have. >> Well, certainly in the cyber industry, one of the major trends we have is a work place shortage. There are not enough trained professionals who know about cybersecurity. So for those who are interested in retooling or starting their career, cybersecurity is an ongoing field. It's going to be around for a long time. I highly encourage those interested, come take a look at Fortinet. We offer free training. So you can start from knowing nothing to becoming certified up to a security architect level, and all those, all that training is now available for free. So it's a great time to star, great time to come into the industry. The industry needs you >> Any particularly areas, Peter you see that's like really jumping off the page. >> Well, it's hybrid, knowing Cloud, knowing on-prem, knowing the traffic, knowing the data on the applications, there's just so much to do. >> You're the head of product, you've got all, probably a ton of openings but seriously young people trying to figure out where to jump in, what are the hot areas? Where can people dig in and get retrained and or find their career? >> Yeah, no, I think to reiterate what Peter said, right? The program that Fortinet has built, LSE one, two, three which is free available, is a great foundation. Because that actually goes into the detail of many topics we touched upon. Even though we are talking about SD-WAN, SASE, ZTNA, fundamentally these are the networking and security technologies to make sure users are able to do the right work in the user experience. And that will be really helpful to the young people who are looking to learn more and go into this area. So highly encouraged to take those training, reach out to us. We are there to provide any mentorship, anything that is required to help them in that journey. >> Anything jump off the page in terms of areas that you think are super hot, that are in need. >> Certainly there's convergence of networking and security. There is a growing need of how and what is Zero Trust is? and how the security is applied everywhere. Definitely that's a topic of mine for a lot of our customers, and that's an area, it's a good thing to gain more knowledge and utilize it. >> Nirav and Peter, thank you for coming on. You guys are both experts and the leaders at Fortinet, the product team. The need for security platform is an all time high consolidating tools into a platform. More tools are needed and there's new tools coming. So I'm expecting to have more great conversations as the world evolves. Certainly the edge is super important. Thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Thanks for having us. >> Okay, Cube Conversation on security here in the Palo Alto studios. I'm John furrier. Thanks for watching. (ethereal music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> lover on Welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. The Cube Studio. I'm John for the co host of the Cube Weird Sylvan shop. Who's the head of solution Architecture and open systems securing Esti win of right of other cloud to point out like capabilities. Very successful. 20 plus years. Operation Civil was the one of the first folks are coming over to the US to expand their operation from Europe into New York. Now here in Silicon Valley. Welcome to the Cube conversation. Thank you. So instituting trivia. You were part of the original team of three to move to the U. S. From Switzerland. You guys had phenomenal success in Europe. You've come to the U. S. Having phenomenal success in the US Now you moving west out here to California on that team, you're opening things up at the market. >> It's been a chance, Mikey. Things can presented themselves step by step, and I jumped on the trains and it's been a good right. >> Awesome. You guys have had great success. We interviewed your CEO a variety of your top people. One of the things that's interesting story is that you guys have been around for a long time. Been there, done that, riding this next next wave of digital transformation. What we call a cloud two point. Oh, but really is about enterprise. Full cloud scale, securing it. You have a lot of organic growth with customers, great word of mouth. So that's not a lot of big marketing budgets, riel. Real success there. You guys now are in the US doing the same thing here. What's been the key to success for open systems wide such good customers? Why the success formula is it you guys are on the right wave. What is it? The product? All the above. What's the What's the secret formula? >> So multiple things I say. And we started as a privately owned company like broad banks to, um, to the Internet email into one back in the nineties. And, um, yeah, we started to grow organically, as he said were by mouth, and Indiana is we put heavy focus on operations, so we wanted to make our customers happy and successful, and, um, yeah, that's how we got there like it was slow organic growth. But we always kind of kept the core and we tried to be unconventional, tried to do things differently than others do. And that's what brought us to where we are today and now capabilities Being here in the Valley, um, opens up a lot of more doors. >> It's got a nice office and we would see I saw the video so props for that. Congratulations. But the real to me, the meat on the bone and story is, is that and I've been really ranting on this whole SD win is changing. SD Win used to be around for a long, long time. It's been known industries known market. It's got a total addressable market, but really, what has really talks to is the the cloud. The cloud is a wide area network. Why do we never used to be locked down? He had the old way permitted based security. Now everything is a wide area. That multi cloud in hybrid club. This is essentially networking. It's a networking paradigms. It's not lately rocket science technically, but the cloud 2.0 shift is about, you know, data. It's about applications, different architectures you have everything kind of coming together, which creates a security problem, an opportunity for new people to come in. That's what you guys? One of them. This is the big wave. What? It explain the new s t win with, you know, the old way and the new way. What is the what? What should people know about the new S D win marketplace? >> Yeah. So let me start. Where do Owen has come from and how digital transformation has impacted that. So typically corporate wider networks were centered around the Clear Data Center where all applications were hosted, storage and everything and all traffic was back holding to the data center. Typically, one single provider that Broady, Mpls links on dhe. It was all good. You had a central location where you could manage it. You had always ability security stack was there. So you had full control. Now new requirements from natural transformation broad as users are on the road, they're on their phones ipads on the in, restaurants in ah, hotels, Starbucks. Wherever we have applications moved to the cloud. So their access directly You wanna have or be as close as possible Unify Communications. I OT It's all things deposed. Different requirements now in the network and the traditional architecture didn't were wasn't able to respond to that. It's just that the links they were filled up. You couldn't invest enough thio blow up your Nampula slings to handle the band with You lost visibility because users were under road. You lost control, and that's where new architectures had to be found. That's where Ston step them and say, Hey, look now we're not centered around the headquarter anymore were sent around where the applications are, your scent around, where the data is, and we need to find means to connected a data as quickly as possible. And so you can use the Internet. Internet has become a commodity. It's become more performance more stable, so we can leverage that we can route traffic according to our policies. We can include the cloud, and that's where Ston actually benefits from the clown. As much as the club benefits from SD went because they go hand in hand and that's also what we really drive to say, Hey, look, now the cloud can be directly brought into your network, no matter where, where data and where applications. >> Yeah, and this is the thing. You know, Although you've been critical of S t when I still see it as the path of the future because it's networking. And the end of the day networking is networking. You moving packets from point A to point B and you're moving somebody story you moving from point A to store the point C. It's hard. And you brought this up about Mpls. It's hard to, like rip and replace You can't just do a wholesale change on the network has the networks are running businesses. So this is where the trick is, in my opinion. So I want to get your thoughts on how companies were dealing with this because, I mean, if you want to move, change something in the network, it takes a huge task. How did you guys discover this new opportunity? How did you implement it? What was the and how should customers think about not disrupting their operations at the same time bringing in the new capabilities of this SD win two point? Oh, >> yeah, that's it's a perfect sweet spot, because in the end is, um, nobody starts at a green field. If you could start with a green field. It's easy. You just take on the new technology and you're happy. But, um, customers that we look up large enterprises, they have a brownfield. They haven't existing that work. They have business critical applications running 24 7 And if you look at what options large enterprises have to implement and manage a nasty when is typically three approaches, they either do it themselves, meaning they need a major investment in on boarding people having the talent validating technology and making the project work already. Look at a conventional managers provider. In the end, that is just the same as doing yourself. It's just done by somebody else, and you have the the challenge that those providers typically, um, have a lot of portfolio that they manage. And they do not have enough expertise in Nasty Wen. And so you just end up with the same problems and a lot of service, Janey. So even then you do not get the expertise that you need. >> I think what's interesting about what you guys have done? I want to get your reaction to this is that the manage service piece of it makes it easier to get in without a lot of tinkering with existing infrastructure. Exact. And that's been one of that tail winds for you guys and success wise. Talk about that dynamic of why they managed service is a good approach because you put your toe in the water, so to speak, and you can kind of get involved, get as much as you need to go and go further. Talk about that dynamic and why that's important. >> Yeah, technology Jane is very quickly. So you need people that are able to manage that and open systems as a pure play provider. We build purposely build our platform for us, he went. So we integrated feature sets. We we know how to monitor it, how to configure it, how to manage it. Lifecycle management, technology, risk technology management. All this is purposely purposely built into it, so we strongly believe that to be successful, you need people that are experts in what they do to help you so that you and your I t people can focus in enabling the business. And that's kind of our sweet spot where we don't say we have experts. Our experts operating the network for you as a customer and therefore our experts are your experts. And that's kind of where we believe that a manage service on the right way ends up in Yeah, the best customer. >> And I think the human capital pieces interesting people can level up faster when you when you're not just deploying here. Here's the software load. It is the collaborations important. They're good. They're all right. While you're on this topic, I want to get your thoughts. Since you're an expert, we've been really evaluating this cloud 2.0, for lack of a better description. Cloud 2.0, implying that the cloud 1.0 was Amazon miss on The success of Amazon Web service is really shows Dev Ops in Action Agility The Lean startup Although all that stuff we read reading about for the past 10 plus years great compute storage at scale, amazing use of data like you, said Greenfield. Why not use the cloud? Great. Now all the talk about hybrid cloud even going back to 2013 We were of'em world at that time start 10th year their hybrid cloud was just introduced. Now it's mainstream now multi cloud is around the corner. This teases out cloud 2.0, Enterprise Cloud Enterprise Scale Enterprise Security Cloud Security monitoring 2.0, is observe ability. Got Cooper All these new things air coming on. This is the new clout to point out what is your definition of cloud two point? Oh, if you had to describe it to a customer or a friend, >> it is really ah, some of hybrid cloud or multi cloud, as you want to name it, because in the end, probably nobody can say I just select one cloud, and that's going to make me successful because in the end, cloud is it's not everywhere, as we kind of used to believe in the beginning, but in the end, it's somebody else's computer in a somebody else's data center. So the cloud is you selectively pick the location where you want to for your cloud instances and asked if Cloud Service providers opened up more locations that are closer to your users in the or data you actually can leverage more possibilities. So what we see emerging now is that while for a long time everything has moved to the cloud, the cloud is again coming back to us at the sietch. So a lot of compute stuff is done close to where data is generated. Um, it's where the users are. I mean, Data's generated with with us. Yeah, phones and touch and feel and vision and everything. So we can leverage these technologies to really compute closer to the data. But everything controlled out of central cloud instances. >> So this brings up a good point. You essentially kind of agreeing with cloud one detto being moved to the cloud. But now you mentioned something that's really interesting around cloud to point out, which is moving having cloud, certainly public clouds. Great. But now moving technology to the edge edge being a data center edge being, you know, industrial I ot other things wind farms, whatever users running around remotely you mentioned. So the edges now becomes a critical component of this cloud. Two point. Oh, okay. So I gotta ask the question, How does the networking and what's the complexity? And I'm just imagining massive complexity from this. What are some of the complexities and challenges and opportunities will arise out of this new dynamic of club two point. Oh, >> So the traditional approaches does just don't work anymore. So we need new ways to not only on the networking side, but obviously also the security side. So we need to make sure that not on Lee the network follows in the footsteps of the business of what it needs. But actually, the network can drive business innovation and that the network is ready to handle those new leaps and technologies. And that's what we see is kind of being able to tightly integrate whatever pops up, being able to quickly connect to a sass provider, quickly integrate a new cloud location into your network and have the strong security posture there. Directly integrated is what you need because if you always have to think about weight, if I add this, it's gonna break something else, and I have to. To change is here. Then you lose all the speed that your business needs. >> I mean, the ripple effect of it's like throwing a stone in the lake and seeing the ripple effect with cloud to point. You mentioned a few of them. Network and Security won't get to that in a second, but doesn't change every aspect of computing categories. Backup monitoring. I mean all the sectors that were traditional siloed on premise that moves with the cloud are now being disrupted again for the third time. Yeah, you agree with that? >> It's true. And I mean your club 0.1 point. Oh, you say a lot of things will be seen his lift and shift and that still works like there is a lot of work loads where it's not worth it to re factor everything. But then, for your core applications, the business where the business makes money, you want a leverage, the latest instead of technologies to really drive, drive your business there. >> I got to get your take on this because you're the head of architecture solutions at Open Systems. Um, is a marketing tagline that I saw that you guys promote, which I live. I want to get your thoughts on. It says, Stop treating your network like a network little marketing. I love it, but it's kind of like stop trying your network like a network implying that the networks changing may be inadequate. Antiquated needs to modernize. I'm kind of feeling the vibe there on that. What do you mean by that? Slow Stop treating your network like a network. What's what's the purpose >> behind that? But yeah, in the end, it to be a little flaw provoking. But I mean, even est even in its pure forms, where you have a softer controller that steers your traffic along different path. Already. For me, as an engineer, I'm gonna lose my mind because I want to know where routing is going. I want deterministic. Lee defined my policy, so I always have things under control. But now it's a softer agent that takes care. Furred takes care of it for me so that already I lose control in favor off. Yeah, more capabilities. And I think that's cloud just kind of accelerate. >> So you guys really put security kind of in between the network and application? Is that the way you're thinking about it? It used to be Network was at the bottom. You built the application, had security. Now you're thinking differently. Explain that the the architectural thinking around this because this is a modern approach you guys were taking, and I want to get this on the record. Applications have serving users and machines network delivers packets, and then you're saying security's wrapping up between them explain. >> So when we go back again to the traditional model Central Data Center, you had a security stack full rack of appliances that the care of your security was easy to manage. Now, if you wanna go ask you when connect every brand side to the Internet, you cannot replicate such an infrastructure to every branch. Location just doesn't skill. So what do you do? Why do you say I cannot benefit of this where I use new methods? And that's where we say we integrate security directly into our networking stack. So to be able to not rely on the service training but have everything compiled into one platform and be able to leverage that data is passing through our network. You've eyes. But then why not apply the same security functions that we used to do in our headquarter directly at the edge and therefore every branch benefits of the same security posture that I typically were traditionally only had in my data center? >> You guys so but also weighing as a strategic infrastructure critical infrastructure opponent. I would agree with that. That's obvious, but as we get into hybrid cloud and multi cloud infrastructures of service support. Seamless integration is critical. This has become a topic, will certainly be talking about for the rest of the year Of'em world and reinvented other conferences like Marcel that night as well. This is the big challenge for customers. Do I invest in Azure A. W as Google in another cloud? Who knows how many clouds coming be another cloud potentially around the corner? I don't want to fork my development team. I want to do one of the great different code bases. This has become kind of like the challenge. How do you see this playing out? Because again, the applications want to run on the best cloud possible. I'm a big believer in that. I think that the cloud should dictate the AP should dictate which cloud runs. That's why I'm a believer in the single cloud for the workload, not a single cloud for all workloads. So your thoughts, >> I think, from an application point of view. As you say, the application guys have to determine more cloud is best for them, I think from a networking point of view, as a network architect, we need to we can't work against this but enable them and be able to find ways that the network can seamlessly connect to whatever cloud the business wants to use. And there's plenty of opportunity to do that today and to integrate or partner with other providers that actually have partnered with dozens of cloud providers. And as we now can architect, we have solutions to directly bring you as a customer within milliseconds, to each cloud, premise is a huge advantage. It takes a few clicks in a portal. You have a new clouds instance up and running, and now you're connected. And the good thing is, we have different ways to do that. Either. We spin up our virtual instance virtual esti one appliance in cloud environments so we can leverage the Internet to go. They're still all secured, all encrypted, ordering me again. Use different cloud connect interconnections to access the clouds. Depending on the business requirements, >> you guys have been very successful. A lot of comfort from financial service is the U. N. With NGOs, variety of industries. So I want to get your thoughts on this. I've been we've been covering the Department of Defense is joining and Chet I joint and the presentation of defense initiative where the debate was soul single purpose Cloud. Now the reality is and we've covered this on silicon angle that D O D is going multi cloud as an organization because they're gonna have Microsoft Cloud for collaboration and other contracts. They're gonna win $8,000,000,000. So that a Friday cloud opportunities, but for the particular workload for the military, they have unique requirements. Their workload has chosen one cloud. That was the controversy. Want to get your thoughts on this? Should the workloads dictate the cloud? And is that okay? And certainly multi cloud is preferred Narada instances. But is it okay to have a single cloud for a workload? >> Yeah, again, from if the business is okay with that, that's fine from our side of you. We see a lot of lot of business that have global presence, so they're spread across the globe. So for them, it's beneficial to done distribute workloads again across different regions, and it could still be the same provider, but across different regions. And then already, question is How do you now we're out traffic between those workloads? Do we? Do you love right? Your esteem and infrastructure or do you actually use, for example, the backbone that the cloud provider provides you in case of Microsoft? They guarantee you the traffic between regions stay in their backbone. So gifts, asshole, new opportunities to leverage large providers. Backbone. >> And this is an interesting nuance point because multi cloud doesn't have to be. That's workload. Spreading the workload across three different clouds. It's this workload works on saving Amazon. This workload works on Azure. This workload works on another cloud that's multi cloud from a reality standpoint today, so that implies that most every country will be multi cloud for sure. But workloads might have a single cloud for either the routing and the transit security with the data stored. And that's okay, too. >> Yeah, yeah, and keep in mind, Cloud is not only infrastructure or platform is the service. It's also software as a service. So as soon as we have sales forests, work day office 3 65 dropbox or box, then we are multiplied. >> So basically the clouds are fighting it out by the applications that they support and the infrastructure behind. Exactly. All right, well, what's next for you? You're on the road. You guys doing a lot of customer activity. What's the coolest thing that you're seeing in the customer base from open system standpoint that you like to share with the audience? >> Um, so again, it's just cool to see that customers realized that there's plenty of opportunities. And just to see how we go through that evolution with our customers, were they initially or little concerned? But then eventually we see that actually, the network change drives new business project and customers air happy that they launched or collaborate with us. That's what that's what makes me happy and makes me and a continuing down that path >> and securing it is a key. Yeah, he wins in this market Having security? >> Absolutely. Yeah, Sylvia saying mind and not wake up at 2 a.m. Full sweat, because here >> we'll manage. Service is a preferred for my people like to consume and procure product in So congratulations and congressional on your Silicon Valley office looking for chatting more. I'm John for here in the keep studios for cute conversation. Thanks for watching

(uplifting music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE Conversations here at the Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier the co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE. We're here for Thought Leader Thursday, and my guest here to talk about the cloud, earnings in the industry, and also all the mega trends happening is Tarun Thakur, who is the co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO, hot start up out of Los Gatos, California. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you, John, thank you, good to be back. >> We love having entrepreneurs come in because you guys are on the cutting edge, you're sweating bullets, you're stressing out, you're building the company. You guys are still in a growth mode, which is great, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> But you're also playing in the cloud game. You're in the ecosystem. We're seeing massive visibility now into the numbers. You see the cloud earnings just came out. Amazon continues to crush it. Microsoft, they're bundling 365 and they're juicing the numbers up but we all know what's going on there, but still, they're looking good. >> Correct. >> And then Google's a dark horse with really that developer platform looking good. So the big three are popping. But, you know, Facebook just announced a $10 billion quarter. They're a cloud too, not to be reckoned with, but kind of not in the pure infrastructures of service. So clearly the market has shown that there is some stability. We're in the second, third inning maybe of this cloud game. What's your take on the marketplace? >> No, I think this is an excellent topic. Thank you, John, for again having us back. Always great to be here. So, you know, the way I think about what's happening really in the cloud is really from three dimensions. Number one, you know, you rightly said $20 billion is what Amazon is on a run rate business of. We personally believe it's still the first innings. It's not the second or the third. You know, they've seen a massive adoption as its called the product market for developilabilty, where the developers, where the application developers, where the SMBs of the world, but the enterprises are just starting to scratch the surface of the cloud. We believe the cloud is in the first innings. The real growth. >> Enterprise cloud. >> Enterprise cloud is just beginning. Just beginning, right. I was, you know, I'll give you quickly an example. I was out in Denver visiting a customer, which is the world's largest, one of the world's largest, shipping companies. They are moving as fast as possible to the cloud, but this is their first foray. But their first foray is not five terabytes or 50 terabytes. Their first foray is 50 petabytes of data. >> So they're moving big time. >> Oh, they're moving big time. >> This is not a toe in the water. >> No, they took two years to evaluate it, and then they go big. >> Right, so talk about the trends here because let's tease through the numbers. I looked at all the earnings, and again, Microsoft is doing well, but remember, they're bundling Office 365, which kind of puts Google unnoticed because Google's got a huge presence that they could roll in. So there's a lot of number games going on that the analysts are kind of pointing out, and we're pointing out, but Amazon has just been crushing it on overall performance. >> Right. >> I mean look at the compute that's going on, the scale, they've got thousands of enterprise customers, and still there's a lot more growth there because the on-prem, true private cloud, is still growing. >> That's correct. >> So what is the state of the enterprise now, and who is using the public cloud more, and who's using it less, and why are they doing that? Is it a makeup, is it a DNA culture? Is it just evolution? >> No, it's just evolution, John. I think the enterprises are finally latching on to this, I think they are, but they're latching on it in a big way. Right, and so that's the second point that I sort of wanted to highlight that while you call Google the Trojan horse, and Amazon being the lead, and then Microsoft somewhere in the middle, let's not forget about Oracle cloud. Larry Ellison is a formidable competitive spirit. He's not going to give up. He has not given up so far. They are going to build an Oracle cloud. There will be a-- >> Well they have an Oracle cloud. >> They have an Oracle cloud. But, you know, having versus really truly-- >> It's so funny, Larry Ellison called Salesforce a fake cloud, but a lot of people are calling Oracle a fake cloud. >> A fake cloud. >> But Oracle on Oracle, we've entered Dave Donatelli, Larry is the only one that hasn't come on theCUBE. Oracle cloud works great with Oracle. >> Correct. >> They're trying to put the message out there that Oracle is working well with cloud native. They're in the Cloud Native Foundation now. >> Sure, sure. >> CNCF, so you stayed in Oracle amidst Avery and folks over there doing a great job, so, but they're not getting the word out. Oracle's not getting the job done because no one sees Oracle as a cool cloud native company. >> No, and they're not. And I think that's a very valid point. But what I'm saying is that there will be room There is oxygen in this market to get the fourth and the fifth cloud provider. There will be specialized clouds. And there will be places for that. Because Amazon is not an answer for all. It is definitely an answer for majority of your workloads, but the HPC, the high performance computing workloads, the GPU workloads, the Oracle. You know, you look at the number one database in the cloud that Amazon claims openly is MySQL. It's not Oracle. An Amazon database business, if they're making 20 billion in total AWS, I will tell you about 40% or 50% of their business is database. And that's not Oracle. So think of five to $10 billion of revenue and money that Amazon is making is not Oracle. >> What's that mean? Does that mean Oracle's losing money or. That's leakage on Oracle's model? Is that Oracle still has an opportunity? Cause they still control a lot of databases. >> Thank you and, thus, thank you, thank you for asking that. It's not that Oracle is losing money, it's the next generation applications, it's the cloud enabled applications. >> So it's growth, it's pure growth. >> It's the new oxygen, it's the new wealth creation. >> So it's like the classic example when the internet started. Web traffic increased because more people were using the internet. >> Correct. >> So what you're saying is that cloud has created a more database market. Amazon's getting a big chuck of it there, but Oracle still has the database market. >> For example if you look-- >> And SAP too. >> And look at the third reason of these clouds, if you look at AIML, right, these applications, the Alexa, the Siri-like applications, and the applications that will be built on top of this, will be built in the cloud. You're not going to start building Alexa AI application on prem infrastructure. That is not happening. And that's the third part of this whole cloud. We say it's $20 billion and we have barely scratched the surface on AI, ML, and blockchain. And all those applications that will be built, will be built on cloud elastic infrastructure. >> Alright, so what's your take? I mean, right now Amazon's winning the cloud game, Oracle, I wouldn't call them number four, but they're trying to juice the numbers up as well, but they clearly have an installed base, and they're not going anywhere. >> Tarun: Captive audience. >> SAP is going multi-cloud, so you're seeing SAP starting to put their, looking at saying, hey, we want our customers to run Oracle SAP on any cloud, so they're clearly thinking multi-cloud. Who else is out there? Alibaba cloud is now coming to the US in San Mateo, so they're number seven cloud but four worldwide, right? >> Tarun: Correct. >> So, pure worldwide numbers, Alibaba's four. >> Yes, so I'll start with Ali cloud. You know, you talk about Alibaba, their cloud is called Ali cloud, and fortunately, as you're building a company, as you talked about earlier on in our offline conversation, you get to meet all the way from governed DoD's and DIA's of the world too. We worked with Ali cloud executive team just a few weeks ago and they were out here in the bay area. Didi is the de facto car hailing company, it's not Uber, in China. We believe Ali cloud will be that in China. There will be a fifth cloud, there will be a sixth cloud. To my point, there will be specialized clouds. Amazon's not going to win this entire pie. And there will be clouds outside of US markets. >> Well I had a chance to tell Karen Lu and Dr. Min Wen Li as well as Dr. Wong at Alibaba in China a few weeks ago, and if you look at what they're doing in China, it's not just cloud. They've got eCommerce, they've got the city brain project. They're looking at holistically around data. Data's fundamental to their vision. I think that's consistent with what we're seeing in the US. A little bit more broader scope because IT here is a little bit more, has more legacy. China's got much more focus and got some government controls in there to get some latitude to do the right things. But the consumers are moving faster in China. If you look at the mobile growth. >> Absolutely. >> John: Huge indicator. >> Look at the Didi's growth. Didi's growth is more faster than Uber's growth. Right, and they've built a massive, massive company out there. >> IoT is pretty hot in China, you're starting to see that. I mean, this is a re-imagining of cloud, so you guys are in the middle of it with back on the road recovery. So as a CEO you're in the body swerving, car's that are flying by you, you're trying not to get run over. You've got a good market opportunity with the cloud because GDPR's coming right around the corner. >> Yes, yes, absolutely. >> So what's your strategy? Are you, I mean, I'm paraphrasing, not dodging cars, but, I mean, as a start up you've got to worry about your success might kill you, but how do you manage the business? I mean, how are you looking at this? Because you've got a great opportunity, and it's a growth market. >> Thank you, thank you. No we're lucky and fortunate that some of the decisions we made back four years ago people used to laugh, why are you going in this market of cloud data applications and isn't eight out of $10 dollars being spent on Oracle. Why would you go off to that. And, we're like, guys that's today. Where the puck is going. The puck is going towards the cloud and cloud applications. And to answer your question, we've found beautiful beautiful excellent product market fit. A little bit about the company. >> John: What's the use case? >> We're just classically going backup in recovery use cases. Built for cloud native applications. So, for example, I talked about the number one database in the cloud is MySQL. The number two database on prem is SQL Server. Take a guess on number two database in the cloud. It's MongoDB, they just went IPO two weeks ago. Number two database on Amazon is MongoDB. Who thought that five years ago? >> Well Lamp Stack its just open stores driving a lot of this action. >> So, I'll give you an example, one of our biggest, biggest customers which we're going to be announcing very soon, but take the liberty to share here, OpenTable. OpenTable, we are protecting OpenTable. 2.5 billion documents. That's yours and my reservation. That's your and my reservation that we make for a beautiful restaurant. >> Yeah, and if I change that reservation I've got to have that backed up, but want to bring it back. You guys are doing that. So what's the scale of the OpenTable? Ballpark it. >> So all their entire reservation applications. >> The whole thing. >> I probably will not talk about the datasets. You know, but their entire geo-distributed applications. You could be sitting in New York or you could be in London. >> And in which cloud are they using? >> They are all Google cloud, they're on prem. So they're truly private cloud and public cloud. So I call that a multi cloud data management space. They've a ton of stuff still on prem. They're not going to diverge away from that very quickly. >> What's the Google situation? Sam Ramji is over there doing a great job. Google Next is coming up soon, next year. Great traction, but still people aren't considering Google as the white glove service because, well, Amazon's not really known for that either, but at least they have a lot more, thousands more customers than Google does. >> Yeah so I think that the problem is twofold, in my humble opinion. Or the observation is twofold. One, I think Google needs to amp up their game around cloud and cloud messaging. You open Amazon AWS.cloud website, and you open GCP website, you could just see the differences. How Amazon talks about cloud. You're still selling compute storage network, but they talk business agility. What took a month for SQL Server now takes two hours. That's what you're selling, right? >> You're selling speed and you're selling automation, and you're selling value. >> Orchestration. So I think Google has to amp up their game, and amp up their game around that. >> Are they too technical, too geeky? >> Too nerdy, too geeky and still talking about infrastructure. >> Yeah sure, and I think Sam knows that too. >> And I think second part, which is, you know, they absolutely need to amp up their game not go head on and follow Amazon, find the newer applications and new use cases, where they can go ahead of Amazon. Whenever you're playing Art of War, either you can follow somebody or you go establish your own base. >> If they go frontal attack on these guys they'll lose, they've got to play the shadows. I think they can slingshot around them. I think the developer traction they have is strong, even though Amazon's got strong developer traction. Google's got some goodness with TensorFlow, they've got some great technology, but they've got to stop the game of we're Google, go with us. Enterprises don't work that way even though I get why they say that cause it's true. At some level from a alpha geek perspective, but this isn't the land of alpha geeks, these are real people that have jobs and enterprise IT that won't transform. >> They're real enterprises, who have real DBAs, and real server admins who really care about data services. Going back to the comment-- >> Not just the shiny new toy. I need reliability, proof. >> I want durability of this data. Don't just tell me I can get compute 10 times cheaper than Amazon. That's not what I care about. Change my, talk my language. I care about data services. I called data driven enterprises. >> Okay, as you guys go out and talk to customers, give me the anecdotal view of the landscape of customers. Because obviously the earnings came out. We saw, again, Amazon continuing to do well. But they've got some competition. We just laid and unpacked that. Customers now see this. What's kind of the the conversations in the boardrooms, and then in the trenches in IT and enterprise as they transform because IT is not a department anymore in the future enterprise. It's now a fabric of all things in cloud native. What are the conversations? Are they slowing down, obviously they want to go faster, is it a personnel issue? What are some of the conversations? >> I'll give you real example. We presented recently to a big, massive federal government agency. We cannot take their name out of legal. >> John: They spend a lot of money. >> Out of Washington, D.C. out here in the Bay area. >> CIA. Or, NSA. >> You're looking at the start-ups in the Bay area, and they were like, look why had we ever adopted the IBMs, the mainframes, and the EMCs, and the Dells of the world. We also know the wealth of the innovation is here in Silicon Valley. Right, so they come out once a year. And I can tell you, John, spending two hours that we did with them earlier in the week, and they are accelerating their journey to the cloud. Things that were foreign terms like micro services, that's how they want to build these federal agencies now. Every application has to have microservices. They are not truly there. I'll tell you that. They are not there, but that is top of mind for the CIA. >> And gov cloud has grown very fast, fedramp, all these services. >> Amazon called it Commercial Cloud Service, c2s, built for the government. And that entire team was here. >> Well Tarun great job. Congratulations on your opportunity we just talked about. Datos.IO. You guys, it's Datos.IO if you want to check out the website. You're going to be at Reinvent, you're going to come on theCUBE, we'll be there with two sets. Again, I have 50, you're doing Amazon, love the community there, they do a great job, Andy Jassy comes on, great group, Trace Carlson, among others. What are you expecting to see this year at Amazon? Besides the fact that it's going to be crowded and certainly the show of the year in terms of cloud. >> Momentum, they're going to accelerate the momentum. The amount of services they're planning to announce from, because we work with the team very closely, and the amount of acceleration they're showing, the new partners coming on board, and the partners like us who had one customer, and now we have 20 in Amazon cloud. You know, we just became an advanced technology partner, they understand that. >> So you're happy with how they're working with partners? >> Oh we love Amazon team. We became an advanced technology partner. They drilled us down for three months to prove themselves, yes, Datos can run on their infrastructure. You know, they want to go fast, but they want to go diligent fast. >> Yeah, we love Amazon too, of course. Our crowd chat solver's on their website as a case study using some of their stuff. Thanks so much for coming on, your final thoughts. Earnings, cloud, where are we? >> This is unstoppable force. It's an unstoppable force, we're in the first innings. There's so much opportunity ahead of us. And we couldn't have picked a beautiful market to than what we did. >> And true private cloud as we keep pointing out, turns out that's playing out. On prem activity's high. Your thoughts on on prem? True private cloud? >> It's going to survive, it's going to survive. But it's not going to be the growth place. >> But we think it will grow with the SaaS. >> With the Saas, I agree, but infrastructure. Infrastructure is not going to be growing. So that's our two cents, but you know, we'll be back in a couple of weeks, we have a phenomenal exciting product launch coming up. >> I just tweeted on Twitter this morning $1.5 billion is going to be coming out of on premise, non-differentiated labor operations. Which basically means, the rack and stacking some of these jobs are going to go away. But the growth is in automation, AI, and machine learning, and some SaaS tooling. >> Cloud applications. >> Cloud operations business models growing on premise. >> And those dollars are going to leak to the cloud. >> Yeah, and cloud, it's all to the cloud. Tarun, thanks so much. >> Thank you. >> Co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO. I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation in Palo Alto at our studios, thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from New Orleans, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. >> We're back, this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Covering VeeamON, two days of wall to wall coverage. Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. One of the key things that we look at in a company is how fast can they go from R&D to actual product that they can sell to customers. We use events like this to understand that pace of innovation. John Metzger is here, the Vice President of Product Marketing at Veeam. John, good to see you. >> Good to see you, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. So, lots of announcements. You got the yesterday announcements. You got the today announcements, you got the tomorrow announcements that we won't talk about but, to the point that I was making at the open, you guys have been very busy, rapid fire innovation going from R&D out to products. Give us the high level on some of the announcements that you've made this week. >> Yeah, that innovation is something that we pride ourselves on in terms of being able to deliver functionality to the market very quickly. We rabbled some of them off on main stage earlier but the customers think of us in terms of driving that innovation. Things like snapshot integration, instant VM recovery, Veeam Cloud connect. The services that we're delivering is part of those in past announcements. With v10 and the wider platform, what we're announcing this week are some key innovations around what we call always on business continuity. Delivering that digital transformation agility. We deliver that in a couple ways in the announcements that we've supported earlier today. So it's things like native object storage support, which will allow customers to be able to free up where they're putting... Give them more agility into where they're putting their archives. Today if they're putting them into that primary storage through this object storage, we're giving them the ability to store them wherever. It could be less cost storage, could be in the cloud, it could be wherever they want to put that. Giving them some agility there. We're supporting new workloads which we hadn't supported before. Most customers probably think of us in terms of delivering that virtualization backup and recovery services primarily on Prim. We've been moving towards that multi-cloud environment which you heard a lot about today for the last several years but with this announcement today, we're doing things like supporting physical servers, endpoints and those Linux and Windows workloads in the cloud. >> John can I-- >> Yeah. >> Really important point there, cause right, most people, I think Veeam, you think the name of the company, VM is right in the name. Customers are figuring out that multi-cloud hybrid world. A key piece is right, I've got my bare metal physical stuff whether it's Windows, Linux, I've virtualized environments, I've got cloud... How do I wrap my arms around the management of all those pieces and maybe you could speak a little to how Veeam makes sure you get a similar environment, can I just manage 'em all together? >> You can. >> Okay. >> So there's a couple things we announced this week. One is in v10, we are going to have that centralized agent management. So when we talked about that that's both the virtualized machines as well as the agents for Windows and Linux. So whether there's an endpoint or a server, one console being able to manage those in a single pane of glass so to speak. We also announced the Veeam availability console, so we've actually announced this previously, but what we did announce, is that we have our release candidate. This is really targeting those service providers so they can deliver the same theme hosted services, Veeam cloud-connect offerings through this Veeam availability console. Two pieces there that we announced from a management standpoint because we're hearing from our customers obviously they're looking for, and Veeam's known for this, that simplified, easy to use solutions. That centralized management is critical to that. >> Okay and then back to the other announcement that has really caught a lot of attention, is the CDP piece. >> Yes. >> So let's spend some time on that. Understand that a little bit better. >> So this is something that we've positioned ourselves as saying we deliver availability for any application and data for 15 minutes or less. That's really based off of that backup and recovery instant VM recovery is one where we can even say, within seconds or minutes. But what we're looking to do here is for those most critical workloads, those tier one applications, it could be website, it could be point of sale applications. Whatever it is, but those most important applications, to be able to deliver that RPOs of seconds. In the demo we gave earlier, you saw the default as 15 seconds, can go even lower, but we're looking to drive that RPOs with replication very quickly to drive to deliver that solution in the market in addition to our backup and recovery. Now that high-speed replication that is competing with delivering solutions that other legacy vendors aren't. >> Well, okay, so let's talk about this for a second. So one of the problems in the world of data protection has always been, it's kind of a one-size fits all. You don't have the ability to say, okay, these apps, they don't need as much protection as these. They don't have the granularity and the ability, because it's too complex and it's too expensive to say okay, put this level of data protection on these workloads and tighten it up for these. The concepts generally used are RPO and RTO. RPO is recovery point objective which is essentially how much data you're going to lose. So if you're taking snapshots in 15 minute increments, you have the potential to lose that data that's not snapped. Okay fine. And then RTO is the speed of recovery. Okay so those are the basics, the really basics. So you're announcing the ability to have very granular levels of RPO, right? >> Correct, yup. >> And you're doing that, if I understand it correctly, through the V sphere API for iO filtering. That's the key ingredient, an enabler, for you guys. >> Absolutely. Because we're leveraging that API for us to be able to deliver in a way that's supported fully by VMware. Be able to get access to information, that enables us to deliver that faster and many of the others in the space aren't leveraging that same API. It gives us opportunities to differentiate and show results. >> Alright, so we got to ask you the elephant in the room question. We've been asking this question of CEOs at NetApp and Dell prior to them buying VMware for years. You got VMware which is owned by Dell and obviously EMC is part of that. EMC's a competitor. Do you get the same treatment as a VMware partner, as say the insiders at Dell EMC. How do you answer that question when customers ask you? >> Good question. It's one that in the past has been a concern. But more and more, we actually had Sanjay on stage today, had similar level folks on stage at the previous VM ONs. We have a very good relationship with VMware. We actually share where we're headed in particular areas and obviously have access to their API in this case for replication. We are building that relationship. We've actually done some research with VMware to show the value that Veeam brings to VMware in terms of driving more and more virtualization with the environment. Some research we did with IDC for example, showed that while we may not, Veeam may not drive that initial purchase of VMware, we're driving higher adoption on VMware. So VMware sees that, we have that relationship with them and we're very open to driving those joint go to market opportunities. That's why you end up with a Sanjay and such-- >> One quick thing. So the CDP, that snapshotless environment uses the APIs. Does that mean that it's only for VMware environment today or-- >> Yes. >> Is there any discussion of future how CDP goes beyond-- >> Definitely for future opportunities but for today, this really is that we're talking about with v10 is VMware. >> So the key is that you get the SDK. You do the integration and all the testing and that's a heavy lift is it not? >> Yes. >> Okay and so, can you give us the timeline as to when we can actually see this product in the field. >> With v10, all the announcements that we made with Veeam availbility suite version 10, we're targeting by end of year to have version 10 out in the market. >> Excellent, okay. Then the other thing that you guys announced is some integrations. You mentioned three companies. Lenovo, IBM and Infinidat, which is kind of interesting. Emerging array company started by Moshe Yanai. Talk about those integrations and exactly what they are. >> This builds on some of the current integrations that we have in the market. We've done integration with vendors such as HPE, EMC, Dell, Dell EMC, NetApp and Cisco. We've done it in a couple key areas. One is integration with their snapshots for backup, for recovery and some efficiencies that we're doing with Dedupe and other pieces. What we're doing here with Lenovo, IBM, and Infinidat, is that we're doing that same level of integration. Through the API, they're able to develop backup from storage snapshots, recovery from storage snapshots, functionaility that we've developed with the other vendors in supporting those throughout these-- >> So these are space efficient snapshots and the key is you're getting application consistency and that whole lifecycle. >> Yes, in driving the benefit for the end user is they're seeing better RPOs, better RTOs, faster backups as a result. By leveraging that integration. >> So John, we've talked a bunch about VMware and the relationship there. One of the other announcements was the Veeam availability for AWS. How much of that is customers coming to Veeam asking for it? How is the partnership with Amazon themselves? What can you share with about that? >> We made actually a couple announcements relative to integrations with third party vendors to help get more to Amazon. Definitely a need. No doubt, Amazon's the leader in the public cloud space. We have a lot of customers that have workloads in the cloud. That are looking for us to help them deliver that availbility solution for those workloads. In addition to the partnerships which you'll hear more about tomorrow with Asher, AWS is definitely a key focus for us. This availbility for AWS is one of our, while we can do agent backup and recovery with our Windows and Linux agents, this is giving us an agentless solution within AWS to help mitigate that risk of lost data. It's definitely a key focus of us. We also announced through Star Wen's leveraging AWS for virtual tape libraries. We talked about object storage which we're now able to leverage several Amazon properties for that. We're looking to deliver more support for Amazon and other public clouds in terms of that greater availbility. >> Let's talk use cases a little bit. There are four that I wanted to talk about and then maybe even some others. So obviously, on Prim, data protection has been doing that for a while. To get on Prim going up to the cloud and that's something I think you guys support. Cloud coming back on Prim and then cloud to cloud. Are those four viable use cases that your customers are pushing you to? >> Definitely. You summarized it very well. I think those are the four use cases that we are building. Whether that cloud is public, managed or private, we're looking to be able to get workloads to wherever they need to be across those clouds. Whether it's from Prim to cloud, cloud down to Prim, across cloud. So definitely use cases that we're hearing from customers. They want that flexibility to be able to get the workloads to wherever they feel they need them. IT is being asked to deliver or get several of those use cases and how can I, as an IT manager, deliver against whatever's best for that person at the line of business, or that CEO, or whatever we're trying to achieve for the business. Give me that agility, that flexibility to be able to do that. >> Then, beyond those four, is there an affinity... There's obviously an affinity to DevOps. If I can integration my data protection strategy and schema directly into my build and my deploy, that's going to give me more agility. Can you talk about the DevOps use case and put some meat on that bone. >> In terms of what they're looking for from a-- >> Yes. >> We actually look at it from a couple different perspectives. We talked about DevOps, we talked about the IT manager, we also look at it from the line of business perspective. That agility goes to various folks within the organization. We know more and more, particularly in the cloud scenario, that you might have somebody who has very little DevOps background or IT background, they know they've got a problem they need to solve. They think that public cloud or some solution is the best way to go. IT is there, DevOps is there to try to understand what their real needs are and how I can help solve those concerns. We're trying to give them that flexibility to manage the requirements based off what the customers' asking for. >> Excellent. So what's the reaction been to the announcements, what are people asking you, what kind of questions, enthusiasm? >> Yeah, it was interesting. We made the announcements this morning, I think the press release is about to hit the wire here very soon if it hasn't already. We did some pre-briefing of them. We're seeing, I would say Veeam CDP definitely is a lot of interest there. We are physical server support, is one that, while we traditionally have not delivered that, as you know, it's an area that obviously customers have physical servers, they have endpoints. In some of the reaction that we've seen on Twitter and elsewhere is, "finally." Veeam's delivering that. We focused on being best of breed at what we've been doing for eight years, but now in the last couple years, enable to deliver that full coverage of wherever those workloads would be, we recognize that that's an area we need to go. Those are some key interests. Of course the AWS announcement that we talked about is driving a lot of interest as well. Good reaction so far. Thrilled to see the feedback. >> Alright John, well listen, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE, it's great to see you. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate the rundown. You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there buddy, we'll be back with our next guest. He's a CUBE-er live from VeeamOn in New Orleans. We'll be right back.