(upbeat music) >> TheCUBE presents UiPath Forward 5. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Hello and welcome back to TheCUBE's coverage of UiPath Forward 5. We're here in Las Vegas at the Venetian Convention Center. This is day two. We're wrapping up Dave Nicholson and Dave Vellante. This is the fourth time theCUBE has been at UiPath Forward. And we've seen the transformation of the company from, essentially, what was a really interesting and easy to adopt point product to now one through acquisitions, IPO, has made a number of enhancements to its platform. David Cardenas is here. Deputy Director of Operations for County of Los Angeles, the Department of Public Health. David, good to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me on guys. Appreciate it. >> So what is your role? What does it have to do with automation? >> So I had been, actually started off in the IT space within the public health. Had served as a CIO previously, but now been moving into broader operations. And I basically manage all of the back office operations for the department, HR, IT, finance, all that. >> So you've had a wild ride in the last couple of years. >> Yeah, I think, like I've been talking earlier, it's just been, the last two years have just been horrendous. It's been a really difficult experience for us. >> Yeah, and I mean, the scars are there, and maybe permanently. But it also had major effects on organizations, on operations that, again, seem to be permanent. How would you describe the situation in your organization? >> So I think it, the urgency that came along with the pandemic response, kind of required us to look at things, you know, differently. We had to be, realize we had to be a lot more nimble than when we were and try to figure out how to enhance our operations. But really look at the core of what we're doing and figure out how it is to be more efficient. So I think we've kind of seen it as an opportunity to really examine ourselves a little bit more deeply and see what things we need to do to kind of, to fix our operations and get things on a better path. >> You know, I think a lot of organizations we talked to say that. But I want to understand how you handle this is, you didn't have time to sit back in the middle of the pandemic. >> Yeah. >> And then as you exit, what I call the isolation economy, people are so burned out, you know? So how do you deal with that organizational trauma? Say, okay now, let's sit back and think about this. Do people, are they eager to do so? Do they have the appetite for it? What's that dynamic like? >> So I think certainly there's a level of exhaustion inside the organization. I can't say that there isn't because it's just been, you know, two years of 24/7/365 kind of work. And that's tough on any organization. But I think what we realize is that there's, you know, we need to move into action quickly 'cause we don't know what's going to come next, right? And we're expecting that this is just a sign of what's to come and that we're just at the start of that stage of, we're just going to see a lot more outbreaks, we're going to see a lot more conditions kind of hitting us. And if we're not prepared for that, we're not going to be able to respond for the, and preserve the health and safety of our citizens, right? So I think we're taking a very active, like, look at these opportunities and see what we've done and say how do we now make the changes that we made in response to the pandemic permanent so that the next time this comes at us, we won't have to be struggling the way that we were to try to figure things out because we'll have such a better foundation in place to be able to move things forward. >> I mean, I've never served in the military, but I imagine that when you're in the military, you're always prepared for some kind of, you know, in your world, code red, right? >> Yeah. >> So it's like this code red culture. And that seems to have carried through, right? People are, you know, constantly aware that, wow. We got caught off guard and we don't want that to happen again. Because that was a big part of the trauma was just the unknown- >> Right. >> and the lack of preparedness. So thinking about technology and its role in helping you to prepare for that type of uncertainty. Can you describe how you're applying technology to prepare for the next unknown? >> So I think, so that first part of what you said, I think the difficulty we've always had in the public health side is that there's the, generally the approach to healthcare is very reactionary, right? Your first interface with the healthcare system is, "I'm going to go see my doctor; I'm going to go to the hospital." The work that we do in public health is to try to do everything we can to keep you out of that, right? So it's broad-based messaging, social media now is going to put us out there. But also, to be able to surveil disease in a different way. And so the holy grail for us in healthcare has always been, at least on the public health side, has been to try to see how can we tap in more actively that when you go see the doctor or when you go to the hospital, how can I get access to that information very, very quickly so that I know, and can see, and surveil my entire county in my jurisdiction and know, oh, there's an outbreak of disease happening in this section of the county. We're 10 million people with, you know, hundreds of square miles inside of LA. There are places where we can see very, you know, specific targets that we know we have to hit. But the data's a little stale and we find out several months after. We need to figure out a way to do that more actively. Technology's going to be our path to be able to capture that information more actively and come up on something a little bit, so we can track things faster and be able to respond more quickly. So that's our focus for all our technology implementations, automation like UiPath has offered us and other things, is around how to gather that information more quickly and put that into action so we can do quick interventions. >> People have notoriously short memories. Please tell me (chuckles) any of the friction that you may have experienced in years past before the pandemic. That those friction points where people are thinking, "Eh, what are the odds?" >> Yeah. "Eh, I've got finite budget, I think I'm going to spend it on this thing over here." Do you, are you able to still ride sort of the wave of mind share at this point when putting programs together for the future? >> So whatever friction was there during the pandemic wiped away. I mean, we had amazing collaboration with the medical provider community, our hospital partners. The healthcare system in LA was working very closely with us to make sure that we were responding. And there is that wave that we are trying to make sure that we use this as an opportunity to kind of ride it so that we can implement all the things that we want. 'Cause we don't know how long that's going to last us. The last time that I saw anything this large was after the anthrax attacks and the bioterrorism attacks that we had after 9/11. >> How interesting. >> Public health was really in lens at that point. And we had a huge infusion of funding, a lot of support from stakeholders, both politically and within the healthcare system. And we were able to make some large steps in movement at that point. This feels the same but in a larger scale because now it touched every part of the infrastructure. And we saw how society really had to react to what was going on in a different way than anyone has ever prepared for. And so now is we think is a time where we know that people are making more investments. And our success is going to be their success in the longterm. >> And you have to know that expectations are now set- >> Extremely high. >> at a completely different level, right? >> Yes, absolutely. >> There is no, "Oh, we don't have enough PPE." >> Correct. >> Right? >> David: Correct. >> The the expectation level is, hey, you should have learned from all of- >> We should have it; we can deliver it, We'll have it at the ready when we need to provide it. Yes, absolutely. >> Okay, so I sort of mentioned, we're, David cubed on theCUBE (all laughing). So three Daves. You spoke today at the conference? >> Actually I'm speaking later actually in the session in an hour or so. >> Oh Okay. My understanding is that you've got this concept of putting humans at the center of the automation. What does that mean? Why is that important? Help us understand that. >> So I think what we found in the crisis is that the high demand for information was something we hadn't seen before, right? We're one of the largest media markets in the United States. And what we really had trouble with is trying to figure out how to serve the residents, to provide them the information that we needed to provide to them. And so what we had traditionally done is press releases, you know, just general marketing campaigns, billboards, trying to send our message out. And when you're talking about a pandemic where on a daily basis, hour-by-hour people wanted to know what was going on in their local communities. Like, we had to change the way that we focused on. So we started thinking about, what is the information that the residents of our county need? And how can we set up an infrastructure to sustain the feeding of that? Because if we can provide more information, people will make their own personal decisions around their personal risk, their personal safety measures they need to take, and do so more actively. More so than, you know, one of us going on camera to say, "This is what you should do." They can look for themselves and look at the data that's in front of them and be able to make those choices for themselves, right? And so we needed to make sure that everything that we were doing wasn't built around feeding it to our political stakeholders, which are important stakeholders. We needed to make sure that they're aware and are messaging out, and our leadership are aware. But it's what could we give the public to be able to make them have access to information that we were collecting on an every single day basis to be able to make the decisions for their lives. And so the automation was key to that. We were at the beginning of the pandemic just had tons and tons of resources that we were throwing at the problem that was, our systems were slow, we didn't have good ability to move data back and forth between our systems, and we needed a stop-gap solution to really fill that need and be able to make the data cycles to meet the data cycles. We had basically every day had to deliver reports and analytics and dashboards by like 10 o'clock in the morning because we knew that the 12 an hour and the five-hour news cycles were going to hit and the press were going to then take those and message out. And the public started to kind of come in at that same time and look at 10 and 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock. >> Yeah. >> We could see it from how many hits were hitting our website, looking for that information. So when we failed and had a cycle where that data cycle didn't work and we couldn't deliver, the public would let us know, the press would let us know, the stakeholders would let us know. We had never experienced anything like that before, right. Where people had like this voracious appetite for the information. So we needed to have a very bulletproof process to make sure that every single 24 hours we were delivering that data, making it available at the ready. >> Software robots enabled that. >> Exactly. >> Okay. And so how were you able to implement that so quickly within such a traumatic environment? >> So I think, I guess necessity is always the mother of invention. It kind of drove us to go real quickly to look at what we had. We had data entry operations set up where we had dozens and dozens of people whose sole job in life on a 24-hour cycle was to receive medical reports that we we're getting, interview data that's coming from our case interviews, hospitalization data that was coming in through all these different channels. And it was all coming in in various forms. And they were entering that into our systems of record. And that's what we were using, extracts from that system of record, what was using to generate the data analyses in our systems and our dashboards. And so we couldn't rely on those after a while because the data was coming in at such high volume. There wasn't enough data entry staff to be able to fit the need, right? And so we needed to replace those humans and take them out of that data entry cycle, pop in the bots. And so what we started to look at is, let's pick off the, where it is that that data entry cycle starts and see what we could do to kind of replace that cycle. And we started off with a very discreet workload that was focused on some of our case interview data that was being turned into PDFs that somebody was using to enter into our systems. And we said, "Well before you do that," since we can't import into the systems 'cause it wasn't working, the import utilities weren't working. We got 'em into simple Excel spreadsheets, mapped those to the fields in our systems and let the bots do that over and over again. And we just started off with that one-use case and just tuned it and went cycle after cycle. The bots just got better and better to the point where we had almost like 95% success rates on each submission of data transactions that we did every day. >> Okay, and you applied that automation, I don't know, how many bots was it roughly? >> We're now at like 30; we started with about five. >> Okay, oh, interesting. So you started with five and you applied 'em to this specific use case to handle the velocity and volume of data- >> Correct. >> that was coming in. But that's obviously dynamic and it's changed. >> Absolutely. >> I presume it's shifted to other areas now. So how did you take what you learned there and then apply it to other use cases in other parts of the organization? >> So, fortunately for us, the process that was being used to capture the information to generate the dashboards and the analyses for the case interview data, which is what we started with- >> Yeah. >> Was essentially being used the same for the hospitalization data that we were getting and for tracking deaths as they were coming in as well. And so the bots essentially were just, we just took one process, take the same bots, copy them over essentially, and had them follow the very same process. We didn't try to introduce any different workflow than what was being done for the first one so we could replicate quickly. So I think it was lucky for us a lot- >> Dave V.: I was going to say, was that luck or by design? >> It was the same people doing the same analyses, right? So in the end they were thinking about how to be efficient themselves. So they kind of had coalesced around a similar process. And so it was kind of like fortunate, but it was by design in terms of how they- >> Dave V.: It was logical to them. >> Logical to them to make it. >> Interesting. >> So for us to be able to insert the bots became pretty easy on the front end. It's just now as we're trying to now expand to other areas that were now encountering like unique processes that we just can't replicate that quickly. We're having to like now dig into. >> So how are you handling that? First of all, how are you determining which processes? Is it sort of process driven? Is it data driven? How do you determine that? >> So obviously right now the focus still is COVID. So the the priorities scale that we've set internally for analyzing those opportunities really is centered around, you know, which things are really going to help our pandemic response, right? We're expecting another surge that's going to happen probably in the next couple of weeks. That'll probably take us through December. Hopefully, at that point, things start to calm down. But that means high-data volume again; these same process. So we're looking at optimizing the processes that we have, what can we do to make those cycles better, faster, you know, what else can we add? The data teams haven't stopped to try to figure out how else can they turn out new data reports, new data analysis, to give us a different perspective on the new variants and the new different outbreaks and hotspots that are popping up. And so we also have to kind of keep up with where they're going on these data dashboards. So they're adding more data into these reports so we know we have to optimize that. And then there's these kind of tangential work. So for example, COVID brought about, unfortunately, a lot of domestic violence reports. And so we have a lot of domestic violence agencies that we work with and that we have interactions with and to monitor their work, we have certain processes. So that's kind of like COVID-adjacent. But it's because it's such a very critical task, we're looking at how we can kind of help in those processes and areas. Same thing in like in our substance abuse area. We have substance use disorder treatment services that we provide. And we're delivering those at a higher rate because COVID kind of created more of a crisis than we would've liked. And so that's how we're prioritizing. It's really about what is the social need, what does the community need, and how can we put the technology work in those areas? >> So how do you envision the future of automation in your organization and the future of your organization? What does that look like? Paint a picture for us. >> So I'm hoping that it really does, you know, so we're going to take everything that's COVID related in the disease control areas, both in terms of our laboratory operations, in terms of our clinic operations, the way we respond, vaccination campaigns, things of that nature. And we're going to look at it to see what can efficiencies can we do there because it's a natural outgrowth of everything we've done on COVID up to this point. So, you know, it's almost like it's as simple as you're just replicating it with another disease. The disease might have different characteristics, but the work process that we follow is very similar. It's not like we're going to change everything and do something completely different for a respiratory condition as we would for some other type of foodborne condition or something else that might happen. So we certainly see very easy opportunities to just to grow out what we've already done in terms of the processes is to do that. So that's wave one, is really focus on that grow out. The second piece I think is to look at these kind of other general kind of community-based type of operations and see what operations we can do there to kind of implement some improvements there. And then I'm certainly in my new role of, in Deputy Director of Operation, I'm a CIO before. Now that I'm in this operations role, I have access to the full administrative apparatus for the department. And believe me, there's enough to keep me busy there. (Dave V. Laughing) And so that's going to be kind of my third prong is to kind of look at the implement there. >> Awesome. Go ahead, Dave. >> Yeah, so, this is going to be taking a step back, kind of a higher level view. If we could direct the same level of rigor and attention towards some other thing that we've directed towards COVID, if you could snap your fingers and make that happen, what would that thing be in the arena of public health in LA County in particular, or if you want California, United States. What is something that you feel maybe needs more attention that it's getting right now? >> So I think I touched on it a little bit earlier, but I think it's the thing we've been always been trying to get to is how to really become just very intentional about how we share data more actively, right? I don't have to know everything about you, but there are certain things I care about when you go to the doctor for that doctor and that physician to tell me. Our physicians, our healthcare system as you know, is always under a lot of pressure. Doctors don't have the time to sit down and write a form out for me and tell me everything that's going on. During COVID they did because they were, they cared about their patients so much and knew, I need to know what's going on at every single moment. And if I don't tell you what's going on in my office, you'll never know and can't tell us what's going on in the community. So they had a vested interest in telling us. But on a normal day-to-day, they don't have the time for that. I got to replace that. We got to make sure that when we get to, not me only, but everyone in this public health community has to be focused and working with our healthcare partners to automate the dissemination and the distribution of information so that I have the information at my fingers, that I can then tell you, "Here's what's going on in your local community," down to your neighborhood, down to your zip code, your census tracked, down to your neighbors' homes. We'll be able to tell you, "This is your risk. Here are the things that are going on. This is what you have to watch out for." And the more that we can be more that focused and laser-focused on meeting that goal, we will be able to do our job more effectively. >> And you can do that while preserving people's privacy. >> Privacy, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. But if people are informed then they can make their own decisions. >> Correct. >> And they're not frustrated at the systems. David, we got to wrap. >> Sure. >> But maybe you can help us. What's your impression of the, first of all, is this your first Forward? You've been to others? >> This is my first time. >> Okay. >> My first time. >> What's your sort of takeaway when you go back to the office or home and people say, "Hey, how was the show? What, what'd you learn?" What are you going to say? >> Well, from just seeing all the partners here and kind of seeing all the different events I've been able to go to and the sessions there's, you don't know many times I've gone to and say, "We've got to be doing that." And so there's certainly these opportunities for, you know, more AI, more automation opportunities that we have not, we just haven't even touched on really. I think that we really need to do that. I have to be able to, as a public institution at some point our budgets get capped. We only have so much that we're going to receive. Even riding this wave, there's only so much we're going to be able to get. So we have to be very efficient and use our resources more. There's a lot more that we can do with AI, a lot more with the tools that we saw, some of the work product that are coming out at this conference that we think we can directly apply to kind of take the humans out of that, their traditional roles, get them doing higher level work so I can get the most out of them and have this other more mundane type of work, just have the systems just do it. I don't need anybody doing that necessarily, that work. I need to be able to leverage them for other higher level capabilities. >> Well thank you for that. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and really appreciate. Dave- >> It's been great talking to you guys, thank you. >> Dave, you know, I love software shows because the business impact is so enormous and I especially love cool software shows. You know, this first of all, the venue. 3,500 people here. Very cool venue. I like the fact that it's not like booth in your face, booth competition. I mean I love VMware, VMworld, VMware Explore. But it's like, "My booth is bigger than your booth." This is really nice and clean, and it's all about the experience. >> A lot of steak, not as much sizzle. >> Yeah, definitely. >> A lot of steak. >> And the customer content at the UiPath events is always outstanding. But we are entering a new era for UiPath, and we're talking. We heard a lot about the Enterprise platform. You know, the big thing is this company's been in this quarterly shock-lock since last April when it went public. And it hasn't all been pretty. And so new co-CEO comes in, they've got, you know, resetting priorities around financials, go to market, they've got to have profitable growth. So watching that that closely. But also product innovation so the co-CEOs will be able to split that up, split their duties up. Daniel Dines the product visionary, product guru. Rob Enslin, you know- making the operations work. >> Operations execution business, yeah. >> We heard that Carl Eschenbach did the introduction. Carl's a major operator, wanted that DNA into the company. 'Cause they got to keep product innovation. And I want to, I want to see R&D spending, stay relatively high. >> Product innovation, but under the heading of platform. And that's the key thing is just not being that tool set. The positioning has been, I think, accurate that, you know, over history, we started with these RPA tools and now we've moved into business process automation and now we're moving into new frontiers where, where truly, AI and ML are being leveraged. I love the re-infer story about going in and using natural national (chuckles) national, natural language processing. I can't even say it, to go through messaging. That's sort of a next-level of intelligence to be able to automate things that couldn't be automated before. So that whole platform story is key. And they seem to have made a pretty good case for their journey into platform as far as I'm concerned. >> Well, yeah, to me again. So it's always about the customers, want to come to an event like this, you listen to what they say in the keynotes and then you listen to what the customers say. And there's a very strong alignment in the UiPath community between, you know, the marketing and the actual implementation. You know, marketing's always going to be ahead. But, we saw this a couple of years ago with platform. And now we're seeing it, you know, throughout the customer base, 10,000+ customers. I think this company could have, you know, easily double, tripled, maybe even 10x that. All right, we got to wrap. Dave Nicholson, thank you. Two weeks in a row. Good job. And let's see. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Check out thecube.net; wikibon.com has the research. We'll be on the road as usual. theCUBE, you can follow us. UiPath Forward 5, Dave Vellante for Dave Nicholson. We're out and we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle consulting everybody welcome back you're watching the cube we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise it's a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry but the transformation of Oracle consulting and its rebirth Mike Owens is here group VP of cloud advisory and GM of Oracle elevate which is a partnership at Oracle announced last open world with Deloitte and Don Schmidt is here as a managing director but Deloitte Jets good to see you welcome good to be here today so don't I want to start with you transformation right everybody talks about that there's a lot of trends going on in the industry what do you guys see is the big gestalt transformation that's going on yeah I think there's an inflection point right now all right everybody who didn't say and they want to get out of their data centers the leaves haven't really been taking place right they've been kind of moving in small bits we're now at the point where large transformation and scale of getting out of your data centers is now here so we are here to try to help our clients move faster how can we do this more effectively cost efficiently and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day-to-day business so data center is just not a efficient use of capital for your for your customers no no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster cheaper and get on to innovation spend your money they're not on hardware floor space power cooling two very well-known brands you guys get together so what was the sort of impetus to get together how's it going give us the update on that front oracle has been really technology focused it was really created by technologists right and back to the point of what we're trying to do with the cloud you're trying to do larger transformation those aren't some of the skills that we have we've been brain and some of those skills in DNA but if you look at it is why would you try to recreate this situation why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like a toy right and so the impetus of that is how do we take the technology with the business formation pull that together and back to the one plus one equals three for my customer right that's what they really want so how do we actually scale that and do really big things and get big outcomes for our customers our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move on a couple application workloads our job well we're really charted to do is really make huge transformational leaps for our customers using the combined capabilities of the two organizations so there's it's a huge paradigm for us to kind of do this and in our collaboration with two organizations just the opposite for what Mike just said right so the white wasn't really big in big IT right business led transformations kind of with toys it's been known for along with our cyber practice and so we needed the the deep skills of the technical experts so you just described what I would think of as wave one and then as you keep paling you got the applications you got the business process you might have you know reorganizations that's really weird guys have expertise right there's a lot of things out to sort through right and that's where the combined elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have we both have tools will help make sure we get this right right Deloitte has a protocol out of data oracle has a product called soar they marry together properly into these transformational journey to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right take me through a typical engagement typical and their own quotes and then how long they take me through the point at which you get start to get business value what am I got to do to get there yeah so we see two different spectrums on on a transformation and that really aligns to what are your objectives do you just need to get a data center because you're on archaic dying hardware or do you want to take that take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum but yeah neither one of those will come in and we'll do a discovery conversation we'll understand what's in your data center understand what the the age or the health of your your data center is help the customers through a business case TCO how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them create will create call wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their day Center in parallel we're going to be doing is my co-sign around all the operational aspects so while we're doing that discovery we want to start standing up there cloud center of excellence getting caught operations into their organization is it's a it's a different skill set for IT to have right they are gonna need to retrain themselves retool themselves in the world of cloud so we kind of do that in parallel now what we want to do is when we start a project we wanna start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can proof out the model works move those into the cloud and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it it's a large space right get the IT savings get the cost cuts part of the organization so under the program of elevate we've we've got a couple of campaigns so the biggest one we we've been talking about is around the data center transformation so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together the next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to torquas cloud and then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market do - jinora put that in as well those are three major campaigns the jde migration so you've got what situations where people have yeah it's actually more of a jte modernization or okay so you have an organization right they may have a JD at JD e or JD JD Edwards instance that's really it's older they may be on version 9 or something like that they don't want to go all the way to SAS because they can't simplify the business processes they need to do that but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of cloud computing right IOT mobile etc right so as a modernization one of the things we're doing is an approach together we worth customers depending where they go and going hey great you can actually modernize by taking up to this version of jde through an upgrade process but that allows you to then to move it over to Oracle cloud infrastructure which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level then you can actually do the higher little analytics that sits on top of that so it's really a journey where the customer wants to get there's various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry with a customer on the jde modernization we kind of work them through so that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a DJ te and as well as Oracle consulting and we actually are going to market that together matter of fact we're even at conferences together talking about our approaches here at the inter future in the analytics campaign so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven you know they want to be data-driven but they're not you're not there yet and so their data is in silos and so I would imagine that that's all about helping them understand where the data is breaking down busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that that drives their drives are some data to insights is that fair yet fair yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's it's actually having KPI driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations and so the Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR finance and supply chain guys from powerhouses thanks so much for explaining in the cube and to our audience appreciate it Chris Dave all right okay thank you everybody for watching we're right back with our next guest you're watching the cube from Chicago we're right back right after this short break

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >>Welcome to this Special Cube conversation. We're gonna unpack and have a casual conversation around the big news that VM Ware just announced the sphere 7.7 point. Oh, or V. Sphere seven. Chris Prasad, senior vice president, General manager of the Sphere Cloud Platform Business unit. Paul Turner, VP of product. Guys, we just chatted about the big news. Congratulations. Um, the bottom line, if I'm a customer, I'm moving into the cloud. I see this as really an either an enabler or blocker. You guys actually think it's an enabler? Um, I'm not saying it's a blocker, but as a customer, I just need to know, Is it going to help me go faster? I'm going cloud, Which means I've been told I got to get on the cloud you got Amazon might have azure or multiple clouds with workloads sitting around. I gotta pull them all together and make them work. But right now, I just got to get my operations cloud native necessarily kind of pressure point. >>Oh, for sure. One of the biggest drivers that you see happen in the industry right now is kubernetes. Why? Why is kubernetes taking off communities taking off because it gives you cloud independence. It gives you the ability to run with same operating model, whether it's in Google Cloud, Amazon's Cloud, Microsoft Cloud or any other cloud service. What we're doing with version seven instruction bring that same kubernetes cloud independent operating model directly in divisor. So now all of your infrastructure platforms that are out there, 90% of I T environments are all kubernetes ready platforms on. That's really powerful. So what we've done is just taken a totally different kind of, um ah, scope on how cloud should be Cloud should be any cloud. It should be independent of one particular flavor of it and on developers should be able to work then in a much more agile way. >>You just see, I've been following VM where you know my career since it was founded. And, you know, with the Cube coverage over the years is they see the innovation. You guys do a lot of great stuff. Of course, we keep on our teams to minimum. And David Lantz he made some good calls with these v san. We saw the early stuff with V Cloud Air Kind of saw that kind of going in this direction, But it's been really innovation going on around you guys. I'll see with NSX has exploded and V Sphere has been the core thing. As you guys look at the cloud model, you guys made some good moves with Amazon. I've always felt that you guys could be that Switzerland that that layer of connection points between as enterprise really moved from old way of provisioning, too much more seamless operating model where they have a deal with cyber security. They gotta deal with all the stuff that's going to come from APS that's going to come from the APP store. When you bought Hep D Oh, I was like, That's actually really smart move. You started bringing that cloud native vibe into V sphere, and that's what's essentially happening here. Isn't it? >>Exactly. This is like the the coming out party for that, like it's V Sphere having all the hefty oh goodness embedded in it. And what they would see is that because we have such a huge presence in the on Prem space, this provides the fastest bad for customers to get to the cloud. So today I mean this? I don't want this point to be lost on the today. You know, we are running the same VM Ware Cloud Foundation, our on Prem on Amazon in Google and many of the same code base. Same code base, right? It's the exact same thing. So now what does that give you as a customer? It gives you the same operational model across all these clouds. Because customers today, we thought that they're setting up set of processes and tools or Amazon. Then you go to Azure. You're doing a different set than their training people to do that. And, you know, you could get into compliance and other issues where things fall through the cracks. Right? When you do that here, the same platform you said your policies wants it applies to all the clouds. You can move your workloads between clouds, right? That's a V motion. Essentially, we don't know the >>last kept on that one, but that's ideal would be crippled >>today. It is happening today and we have thousands of other partners which are the tier two service providers who are all also offering that. So we have a huge grab off these providers are in which we live in the same platform. >>Yeah, I want to add something else, actually, to that as well. Which is? This is an open platform, which is really powerful, right? This is based on kubernetes for developers, which means you can run on the V sphere platform, and that is a hybrid infrastructure that is the most ubiquitous infrastructure out there. But if you actually want to take your application actually deployed onto a native application Native Cloud, you can do that as well. Um, and so it's very important for us to keep the platform open while making broadest available on >>Dev ops. I mean, first, I totally agree. I think open wins, But the end of the day, I think this operating consistency is a big story because it's kind of like nuance. But it is really the most important customers care about, because if you're operating successfully seamlessly across cloud, it's better. So the question I have on the Dev Op side because the dream has always been infrastructure as code. So are you guys there with this? Do you consider this V Sphere seven kind of infrastructures code from a developer? Is it all being taken care of. How close are we in your mind's eye to infrastructure as code. >>Now it's 100% there. I mean, we made the announcement around Hangzhou, which is a set off other products and capabilities that we add to what the sphere has and that whole stack. And the solution is for this targeted at the modern developer. So we have all the capabilities that the developers need to do infrastructure as scored, to deploy their applications and deployed across all these clouds. >>And I want I want to add to that the infrastructure as code really has two parts to it. We look at how do I provide the developers infrastructure's code, which is what we're doing with kubernetes enablement and we have our V San product is available. In fact, all storage services from V sphere available through that andare NSX services are available through kubernetes. So you've got full infrastructures code for developers. But infrastructures code also means how do you deploy large scale infrastructures and manage them as code? How do people actually manage the operations and the deployment of services? And so you're right in your admin team actually have a full layer of enhanced lifecycle management provisioning off configurations and settings across infrastructure. All of that is now managed, as >>that's almost under the hood kind of stuff. But that's important because networking is going to play a big role in all of this from a security standpoint and also compute storage. Pretty much looking, looking good, but networking becomes a huge part of what's under the hood. >>Yeah, I mean, look at networking is what enables us to connect all these clouds together, right? And NSX being the underlying platform for us enables us to have one single layer across all these clouds with the same operating model. So NSX is very critical. >>I want to get your guys thoughts on some little history lesson here or scar tissue, as we say in the industry. You know, I remember back during the Hadoop days, 2010 the big data movement hit, and it was just going to save us all. It's gonna be great, but what ended up happening was this very hard to stand up these clusters and what happened was the commitment the vision was there, but it was just really hard to manage and stand up clusters and hire people to do this. So it has some use cases, but it just really kind of fell down. We saw Open Stack have a similar trajectory where good on paper, things had used cases. But it's just so hard to manage the trends. We're moving very, very fast. Cloud was here. Cloud Computing kind of took everyone by storm and just got rid of all those things. And so they kind of dying. >>No. But if you think about why open Stack didn't go anywhere in the end, it's because of the operational complexity right? It took a lot to set it up, and he had essentially invest a lot more than keeping it running right. And then what we're doing is saying you don't have to worry about that aspect because it's built into the platform that you already know, right? So we have taken that complexity out completely, and so you just have this fear. The administrators know how to set up and run and do life cycle, and this year, and you get kubernetes, go >>back to my original question. If that's the case, which, by the way, I think that's the way to think about it. Then I found the customer acceleration. I can draft up with the movement of cloud as fast as I can Go is having any kind of blockers. >>Fastest lamb like cloud >>ran to the cloud >>and fastest fastest ramp to a cloud operating model, which means that all of your developers can now actually run as quickly as they can, building their applications independent of I t. In a much more dynamic way. So you want to move to that cloud operating model. That's why Kubernetes is so important on the infrastructure side. We've actually, of course, made it a much easier platform to manage. But but it's the agility that matters. >>You guys have done some great innovation. I think you've got a good ear to the market, made some good moves. Looking good. This is a great vision. I got to get your guys take on the edge. Big discussion. Five g. Certain years love that kind of vision. But the end of the day and edge. Now, if you talk about cloud operations, everything's an edge, right? So what does edge mean for V sphere? How do you guys look at the edge of the network. And as these applications with the sensors or whatever happening at the edges, How does this V Sphere look at that? How do you guys look? >>So, uh, for let me just I would say that, you know, we we have, ah, data center edge, right? We just think of it as, um, retail stores, Starbucks, right. They have a kind of a mini data center application running there. That's one kind of edge that people talk about. Then you have the kind of the telco edge, but a lot of the crossing of the five year data is happening, right? Where the cell tower, Selden. We're done. And then you have the devices. You just the cars, the You know what you have at home and we're not right. And then and we can play across all of these because we have the platform. I don't know if you know, but ah, v sphere, as the platform is, is embedded in many devices today. It's in the army. It's embarking leaders it. So it has a form factor that can live in all these devices. We certainly play in the data center, so we're well suited to play the >>piece for anywhere. >>Yeah, that is exactly right. >>I think we're already We're already at the data center edge, as we've talked about that is, it's a very common deployment use case for earlier versions of the sphere, and it will continue to be the value that you guys it's not not new at all. I think the telco edge is actually a very interesting one, particularly the five G switch over. So you know what's happening. There is. There's a whole radio access networks and you're looking at the V Ron as a big initiative there. Which is how do we bring virtualization as a service they're into into those networks? Container deployments becomes very important as well. So we actually have a platform with version seven that actually can give the telco edge and five G network deployments a much more secure, predictable runtime environment. So that's really powerful as well. And it's containers and VMS because many of those applications that are deployed a telco edge our container based applications. >>It's interesting, you know, we talk about stacks in our last segment and you guys talking about the news and now having all these stacks later on. But think about the evolution of the industry with cloud. A whole new sets of services are emerging mentioned Telco Edge. So it just looks different. What's the same kind of open model that open systems brought us, but just a little bit different? It's a distributed cloud security computer, same concepts, new new capabilities. >>Not just to add to that, I mean the biggest innovation John is happening in the hardware layer by the computer, sort of getting disaggregated. There is a lot of acceleration that is going on that are specialized chips, a six effigies that are being built into the servers and and memory's getting pulled outside because the interconnect is getting fast enough for those things to happen. And so a lot of the innovation that we do as a platform that we didn't talk about much today is really a data layer, because we had to virtual eyes all of that and provide it to the level. Of course, >>yeah, it's great. It's a great architecture. I think I just add more complexity that's coming and you guys can help. Abstract away is you just look at cybersecurity and the role of data. You got to get in front of all these these trends to get that automation dev ops going because without any automation and software is just people can't handle the inbounds. It's a big problem. >>Yeah, you really need, um, your platforms to provide intrinsic security. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be an option. It shouldn't be something the developers need to worry about. It should be something that's just part of the platform. And that's one of the things that we see is critical and actually built into Visa or seven. And you've seen that we've made a number of acquisitions recently. Actually, in the security piece, it's it's so that we can purposely build into your runtime environment, which is your VM environment container environment that we're running. We actually build in intrinsic security would build in a dynamic checking off the scope of an application in real time. Um, while those applications running, which is very key. >>Paul, >>Thanks for sharing all that great stuff. I want to get one final thought for both of you before we wrap up is we've been seeing and we've been reporting kind of the three ways of the cloud wave one was public. We all kind of know how that turned out. Awesome Cloud Native Born in the Cloud Wave two is well right now with a lot of intensity hybrid that's got a range of definitions. And then the third wave that's coming fast is multi cloud. So I want to get your thoughts on hybrid. A lot of energy, a lot of spend a lot of dollars investment in hard causing people in hybrid. I know we have different definitions. Is also different versions of hybrid. How do you define hybrid? And how does that become a path to the next wave? Or is it a path of next wave? What's your take? >>So it's absolutely the bad the next, I would say the hybrid, in our view, is the same platform running on which cloud do you want to use in our platform, as we talked about spans all the major clouds today giving the same operating model, and that's what we view as the hybrid cloud story. But the next one is the ability to mix native cloud workloads and services with that, and we already have a set of products and services that target that it's the times. A portfolio that I talked about is all focused on the multi cloud journey. So we kind of support both, and we're looking forward and aggressively going after the multi cloud. >>I think it's important to think of them as is completely complimentary of each other, right? A hybrid infrastructure platforms. So you know, a single I T organization can actually have one operating experience for their entire infrastructure, independent of Cloud Private Cloud Public Cloud Services. But Multi Cloud is about developers. It's about developers able to deploy their applications on any cloud environment that they need to, and they don't need to worry about infrastructure. So hybrid cloud is really about, ah, hybrid infrastructure that we can deploy everywhere, multi cloud and the services that we're providing to developers is all about how you could be independent of any cloud deployment that you want. It could be a hybrid infrastructure you deploy on. It could be on a standard public cloud service, >>and what's interesting is not. Not not all clouds are created equal. I mean, Amazon has much more capability in Azure and Google, but they're finding their swim lanes. But again it's all about the workload. The workload decides which cloud to work on. And that's right. You guys just agnostic? Yes, For the operator. Well, well, Thanks for the insight, guys. Appreciate you did a little post wrap of the news. Thanks for hiring. Thank you. Big news. These fear seven Q breakdown here. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching, >>right? Yeah.

(vibrant music) >> Everyone, welcome to our Palo Alto studio. I'm John Furrier host of theCUBE. We're here for a digital conversation. Part of our new digital events, part of our new structure of bringing people into the studio and also doing remotes. We'd love to do that in the era of the travel bans, but it's always great to have local Silicon Valley executives and startups here. Milin Desai, CEO of Sentry IO is here with me. Former VM-ware industry executive, CEO of Sentry IO hot startup. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank you for having me. >> So you can drive in. You don't have to fly anywhere. It's all good. No wearing masks. The coronavirus is crazy. I'm so glad we have you at this studio and get this content acquisition. Thanks for coming in. I want to get your take on your company before we get into the industry thing. I think you look at some of the most successful categories that just came out of nowhere. You know, you look at AIOps for instance in driving, you know, observability. But what is observability? That beginning, that comes with public page or do the list just goes on and on. The cloud has created this agile market where real time and then a lot of automation is going on so whether it's error logs like a Splunk does and that's scaled up. You get to doing something variation with software code that's not just something breaks, a phone rings. There's a lot a going on. You're this really kind of the tailwind here for you with cloud scale. What does Sentry doing? What's their secret sauce? >> So, the simplest way I would put it is we help you measure and monitor your code in production in close to real time. So what does that mean? You look at all, all of the companies that we talk about, whether it's a John Deere on one end or a Spotify on the other. They're all getting more digital in nature, which means they all trying to interact with their customers more often, building apps with an interface with an API. And as we all know, through our own personal experiences, if you don't get a great experience, you simply move on. So, you pull up your app, you pull up Uber, it's not working, let me look at Lyft. Right? That's the kind of consumer behavior that's starting to take in. >> So-- >> Meaning you don't really know as the owner of the app if they're abandoning or not, it's just down sales or? >> Correct. And so, what we do is we help developers monitor how the usages of their code in production. So, as users hit editors, a checkout button is not working or a user is having a bad experience on a mobile phone, whereas the same application on a browser looks fine. We in real time giving notification saying X number of users on this type of device, on this type of interface are having issues. And not just that, it's an alert, it's an alert that says this is the issue, this is the line of code where the issue's taking place, this is the potential commit that you did in your getRepository, which is causing it. So, it's the full kind of metadata around the issue. Which typically would be, what, two days? I take it as filed. Support me, look at it. Hey, customer has an issue, let's reproduce it. Well the customer is gone. So this is all done in real-- >> Or it could be a complete blindspot too. You don't know, right? This is the thing. This is why I love this whole digital transformation role where instrumentation is re-imagining how everything's being done. So for instance, you could see a code push and you go, okay, it's in production. And then why are sales down? Why is usage down? And then you've got to do a postmortem. >> Correct. >> No one called, just going what the hell happened? Fingers are blaming. He did it! Here you're trying to get to the point where you can see that error earlier or before or after, during as it work. >> It's almost in real time. Close to real time. As the user has the error immediately through either PagerDuty, Slack, email, whichever your communication medium is. You get to know a user or a set of users are having an issue. You click it, you go to this portal. All the metadata is right there. So, it's in real time. And so to exactly your point, it's not after the fact. >> Yeah. >> Right, it's happening. And so, the CTO of tackled.io, said it best, it's a startup that helps companies get on to marketplaces. He said, "Hey, we found issues before our customers even filed a issue against us." So, you know, this helps us deliver true customer experience, as a development team. >> So, on the developers that target profile get that and they're coding away. They don't have time to do research. They'll be like, "Oh, I better bolt on some instrumentation here." That's been the successful move. Look at like what Datadog has done in DevOps. Just the easy onboarding, free use it. Is that the same model you guys are taking this free land, adopt then expand. So, is it a freemium, could you explain the business model? >> Yeah, so, a Sentry is a open source. And so customers can take the piece of software that we have as is, fully functional and run it themselves on their data center on their cloud, or they can choose a SaaS version from us and we offer kind of like a free version and then you pay for the plan. So, what we typically see is customers turn it on, developers turn it on and they like it. And then, the best score I got recently was, one CEO who said, "Hey, you know, I don't send you that many events, but I see the value of what you do, so I decided to pay you." Right, so, they went from free to paid. And that's kind of typical pattern that we see. And the best thing about this is, it takes you approximately four lines of code to get started. Four lines of code in your code and you get started getting the benefits of Sentry. >> What's good sign for monetization when you got the paying it forward literally with cash. I want to ask you the difference between the open source version because I saw in the origination story it's really interesting. They were at jobs and they saw this side project grow into a real opportunity. And it's always good to see the open source not die, right. So, this been maintain the project. When would someone use the open sources? Is that the hardcore folks or, so SaaS, obviously makes sense. It's easier if you're doing a lot of the extra support and whatnot on top of it. But what's the use case for the folks who are going to bring it in house loaded on their cloud? >> I think we'll leave it to our customers to decide that. And we've seen, folks who say, "Hey, you know, we have, we're going to try it out, it's a small, we have got a good DevOps practice. We're going to get it up and running." Here's what happened with one of my teams at VMware. The engineer in charge looked at it and said, "It's not worth my time given what the price on SaaS is." Right, so, like our smallest plan is $29, which satisfies most startups or small software projects. And his point was like, "Hey, you know, it's almost better for me to start and using that versus--" >> Well they weren't using NSX. I'm sure Pat Gels would be like, "Get shipped the next product." Well this is the trade off, right? I mean, so that's what's beautiful of open source. You want to bring it in and make it work for yourself. That trade off has to be economically there. >> Correct. >> So you have a nice balance of if you're hardcore, no problem. >> Please use-- >> Use it, contribute, be part of the team. But if you want ease of use and all the bells and whistles and the speed. >> I think it comes down to what we are starting to see, which is, how much do you care about getting to value faster and where is your value? Is it in kind of running and operating all these pieces of software or is it in, you know, getting value to your end customer? So, if you are focused on building your business, we are this value add that kind of gets you there faster. So, stop focusing on kind of building the infrastructure. Start delivering kind of the value to the business. >> So I'm going to ask you, so, are you the CEO? So the founders who I've not met. I look forward to interviewing them. They seem pretty cool. I'm sure they probably say, "Oh this guy from VMware, he's probably the big company guy." 'Cause they were like, we're going to Dropbox now. Engineers, I could almost imagine their, what they're like. Probably skeptical, this is VMware guy. How did you get through the interview process? Obviously, you're the CEO, you made it. Were they skeptical ? What worked? Why you, why'd you go there? >> You know, the best thing about this transition is Chris and David. So, David was the CEO. He is now the CTO. He's the founder creator along with Chris. And it was his decision, to bring someone into the company, given that we are seeing this, you know, we are now at 20000 plus customers and he felt like he wanted to kind of go back to building and creating and bring a partner in crime. So, that was the good part. I would say like, we started talking and we are at the same energy level, you know? So, I think it just worked out in the way we communicated. And you've known me for a bit. I'm kind of hands on. I like, you know, to kind of get into things and build businesses. So, I think the profile matched out and both of us took our time. So it was, a long dating process, where we got to know each other. Not just as, you know, what we do for work. But, you know, how we operate and had coffee and lunch and dinner and--- >> Well, it is a dating, dating and marriage is always thinking, but the founders are, it's a tough move to make. I mean, for founders to be self-aware, to bring in someone else. But also the fit has to be there. And a lot of entrepreneurs just check the box and try to hire someone too fast that could fail or gets jammed down by the VCs, you know. So, the founders are pretty kind of reluctant. So, that's interesting that you did that. >> Yeah, he's been thinking. You know, the thing about David is he's super thoughtful and hopefully you'll get to see him soon. He's been thinking about this for a bit. And he took his time. And he worked through the process and that's why I said it felt like we were not just talking about, me joining as a CEO, as much as us getting to know each other and building this for the long run. And so we really took our time on both ends--- >> And he want to to get back on the engine of the business? He's a developer, right? He's like the code. >> Just don't want to, >> It was-- >> 20000 customers, you going to get hiring people. It's HR issues. This probably, I don't want to do that. >> That and you know it was kind of the personality thing, right? Grit and grind, you know. We kind of, can somebody come in and have the passion, the same that he believes in what we do. And he saw that and I saw that in him and I'm like, this is a great opportunity that I cannot forego. >> So talk about the, I say love modern, the modern startups because, you know, you're on the right side of history when you got cloud at your tailwind and kind of DevOps, like vibe you get going on with, I know it's not DevOps, but it's common like cloud scale and the agility. How are you guys organized? You guys have virtual teams. You have a central office. Is there a physical place? Do people come in? What's the, how is the company's philosophy on work environment? >> So, we actually have three locations. One in San Francisco, which is the headquarters, where we are located. And then in Vienna, Austria, where one of the early engineers and pioneers live. And so we built around that person and that location. >> No one's complaining about that. >> No. >> Vienna's not a bad place there-- >> Not a bad place. I haven't visited yet. (laughs) I am looking forward to it. I was supposed to be there in April, but, given the circumstances, I'm postponing it. And we recently started this past year in Toronto. And so, we are--- >> So three strong areas for tech talent for sure. >> And then we do have some employees working from home. So, we try and hire the best, and then we accommodate. But we do try to kind of cluster around these three locations. >> So, I got to get your take as the CEO, obviously we're all grappling with this, work at home, Covid 19, the coronavirus, is impacting. Everything's being canceled here in Silicon Valley. I would say Seattle has more of a hotspot than our area. Mostly China as China. What's the view that you guys are taking right now? You're telling people who work at home. Obviously, events are being canceled. Places where people doing Biz Dev, KubeCon was canceled, Dell Technology World is can-- I mean everything's being canceled. How's that affecting your business and what's your philosophy? How are you guys are executing through this tough time? >> I think as a company we've kind of taken the step for having people work from home and we did it on a location by location basis. So, for folks in San Francisco, especially because folks who are commuting on public transportation and other things. We wanted to make our team feel comfortable. And so we've instituted a work from home policy, for, I think we said two weeks, but I think it's going to keep going until we get a clear signal from the government, both locally and at the federal level. So that's kind of where we are as a team. And then what we noticed was the Austrian government kind of had similar regulations of everyone's working from home. Slack, you know, Google Hangouts. We spending a lot of time on video, making sure we are connected as a team. And you know, just that spirit of how we operate and talk to each other continues. As a business, we are a bottoms up business. So, what I mean by that is folks sign up, they use the product. And developers are right now globally still fully functional. The only difference being they're now working from home. So we feel like as a business, we'll be fine. And we are ensuring that our customers through this transition and through this period of kind of unknowns are able to continue to be successful for their customers. >> It's funny, I was talking with someone, it's like there's going to be some, obviously, sectors, like events are going to take a big hit. South by got canceled, Coachella's being canceled. All the tech events are being canceled. That's why we're going to be doing our stuff at the studio with virtual events, for theCUBE. But certain things are going to be different. You going to see pregnancy, boom. You know, nine months later, people are going to be having kids cause they're home alone or divorces depending on how you look at it. But productivity, developer wise has been talked about as actually developers want to just crank out some code. They don't have to come into the office. You can be more, I mean you can still be productive. Developers have been doing this for decades. >> I think-- >> At least if they are more. >> You know, I think you, you know, I think there might be a scenarios of adjustment, a period of adjustment. And then folks will get comfortable. So, it's super important to create that engagement model. Whether, do you have the tooling to keep the team engaged. And there companies that are completely remote. And so we're making sure we learn from their best practices around that. But I do believe that, for tech companies or even for manufacturing companies focused on building software, developers are going to be productive. >> Okay, so a baby boom's coming, divorce rate's going to go up and productivity is skyrocketing. (both laugh) >> For developers. >> For developers. Well, I mean it's a good time. Okay, can I get your take on the industry now. Honestly, putting all the coronavirus aside, we saw a surge in public cloud check. Done. And ask you when your VMware with NSX coming in and becoming the engine with software defined networking as part of the Series piece. You're starting to see hybrid clear as day. It's going to happen. Multi clouds on the horizon. So, you now have a three wave cloud game going on. Wave one, done. Wave two is hybrid. Wave three maybe bigger than them all with multicloud. Do you agree with that trend analysis and what's your take on that? >> So, this is where I'll probably kind of look back at my time at VMware. I think, you know, definitely see the multicloud wave catching on. But I would use the word multicloud as in, not a app spread across three clouds as much as, you know, a company choosing to have a certain assets in AWS, certain assets in Azure, certain in Google. So, I don't see yet this idea of an app being stretched across the three clouds but definitely, while I was-- >> VMware tried that. (both laugh) >> While I was at VMware and in talking to customers, we definitely saw adoption of multiple clouds. And that's where when I was working with the cloud health team, this idea of managing cost and security across three clouds became very common as a pattern that came up. You definitely see that as a kind of directional thing that a lot of organizations are doing. >> Yeah, the idea of just rapidly shifting up workloads based on pricing, all that stuff. I think it's aspirational at best because development teams are now just getting their groove on with hybrid and operation, cloud operations. So, I can see a day where if you can manage the latency network issues, maybe some day, but I mean, come on, really? I think about how hard that is, just latency alone. >> And the issue is like, architecturally you have to make really good choices to get there. So, I think you might see that in like kind of tech software firms. We're thinking about, how do I stay cloud neutral? But for the most part, if you want to take the full value of AWS or full value of GCP, you want to go deeper in there. And use all their services. >> Yeah, I think that's great insight. Let's riff on that a little bit because one of the things I was talking to Dave Alante and Stu Miniman about was, if you look at the multicloud, I don't think it's going to come from a vendor. I think if you look at the success of the Facebooks of the world, even Dropbox where your founders came from, early on, they had to just basically build it from cloud native, from ground up. And all the hyper scalers use open source. They built all their stuff. No one was selling them anything. They just did it. So, I think you'll see smart architectural moves, but that'll be the unicorn. That'll not be the standard. That'll be the exception, not the rule. I don't think you can sell multicloud, in my opinion, yet, or I don't think that'll even be possible. But I think someone will come out and say, make those architectural decisions saying, "I have an architecture that works multicloud because we architect it that way." >> Yup, yup. And I think that's kind of the more, kind of from an engineering standpoint, I think you'll see more of that. I think from a, you know, from a kind of solution standpoint, you will see folks saying, "I will help you manage or secure or build into each of the clouds and give you kind of common pattern versus the latter of it." And engineering team says, "Here's a way to architect for multicloud." >> You know, we pay a lot of attention to the next gen kind of psychologies. Obviously, we do a lot of coding on with our cube cloud that's coming out now. But, how do you see the founders you're working with and that in this new peer group that's developing. I call it, the next gen entrepreneur, technical entrepreneur. As they look at the vast resources of cloud and all of the data opportunities there and mobility, internet things and all this stuff going on. What is the general mindset right now of these kinds of entrepreneurs from a technology perspective? How are they looking at the problem space? What's your take on this new landscape as an entrepreneur? >> Yeah, I'll give you kind of what got me super excited about Sentry. Like how, why did I think about that? Which is if you look at 2000 to 2010, we did software defined infrastructure. Things started moving into software. 2010 to 2020 was, as you correctly wanted a cloud, hybrid, everything became kind of as a service. I think this next decade will be about data. So, companies using the data to get a competitive advantage or figuring out, you know, how to stay ahead, whether it's competitively or even to win a market. And the other aspect of this is because everything is so, as a service, API centric, I think it's going to explode how we develop things. And I think this is going to be truly now the decade for the developer, who's going to make deeper choices, greater choices, buying decisions. And so, with data kind of exploding, and the management of it and getting insights out of it is one aspect of it. And, you know, as somebody who's looking at Sentry, we do a lot of that, right? Which is how are customers using it? What are they using? What languages? And everything else that goes with that. But on the other end, developers are going to start kind of using things and create a whole new set of use cases that's going to change the way we think about it. So I think there's a whole set of elements around how to use this infrastructure to build new applications, creative products, that is going to be a massive boom. >> I think that's a great point. I think that's great insight. Because you think about observability, which I was just joking earlier on about, but I think the relevance observability is network management applied to value real time, right? Because if you can instrument everything, the smart people are going to saying, "Hey, I can just instrument this and get the data I need rather than dealing with this hassle process we had before." So, it brings up that kind of philosophy of kill the old to bring in the new or something new that kills the old. So, it's an interesting phenomenon. I think it's very relevant. But I want to get your, question as a CEO now, you've got, you're at the helm, helm of a company is technical. And talking about architecture, what's your architecture for the venture? What's your plans? How do you see the, you said you're going to come and build this next level growth. What's your architecture look like? Are you going to, do more of the same? Any new things that we see? What are you going to... What's your plan? >> Fundamentally, you know, we as a kind of set of users in the world today, have spent a lot of time monitoring, as I told you earlier, machines, systems and applications, right? And so there's a lot of successful companies doing that. But if you fundamentally believe that this is the decade where you're going to write more code than we've ever before or refresh more applications than we've ever before. Our focus is code and how it does whether it's in a staging environment, in a canary deployment, or in production. How do we measure code and monitor code in production. And the impact of that code to the end users. So it could be errors and now increasingly code performance. So you will see us kind of venture into this idea of helping developers. Not only find issues that they run into production like we talked about before, but also be able to say, looks like over the past three releases, our logins per second have gone down progressively by 10%. Why is that happening? Where is that happening? Which team made that change? So, you will see us kind of really double down on this idea of measuring and monitoring code going forward, complimenting how we measure monitor systems, machines and applications today. >> Yeah, I mean, code has got to be managed, as people more, people contribute. It's like a compiler for the compiler. (laughs) >> It's like if code fails, your business-- >> Code for the code. >> Yeah. >> Meta three meta meta as they say, but code for the code. But that's, it's basically code management in a way, right? It's the code data. You're leveraging that code relationship to the application. >> And so we talk about applications a lot. And so we write code, we store code, you know, in a getRepository. Now there's a whole set of elements around securing it. We deploy it. What about measuring and monitoring it? That is the element where we focus and kind of bring that whole cycle together. Helping that application developer be successful. >> What's it like for you going from VMware to the startup? What's the biggest, coolest thing that's happened? >> It's been a great transition. You know, and I always say this to folks who ask me for career advice. They say, always choose the people you work with and the people you work for. And I've been fortunate enough to do that and I think this transition has been great for that reason alone. Which is I've had the time to get to know the team at Sentry. They got to know me and it's just been, it's been fantastic. I think the velocity of and the pace at which I can make changes, has been the most fun part of it. >> And you've got like 25, 20000 paying customers 50000 total customers roughly in that range. Pretty sizeable. Employee count, how many employees do you have? >> 100 plus employees and-- >> Still small, still small. >> Yeah, still small. And we're going to probably double this year, give or take. And you know, it's 20000 customers from every startup. I've spoken to a startups, over 100 startups in two months. And it's amazing to see their reaction and their love for Sentry. >> And funding, how many rounds of funding have you guys done? >> We just finished Series C, in September of last year. 40 million, any Accel growth. So, we feel really good about where we are. With the revenue ramp that we've seen, we're in great shape. >> And pretty good numbers in terms of a head count too, very leveraged SaaS model. Get the developers. >> Yes. >> Great. Well, we're going to be entertaining a lot of developers at DockerCon this year. DockerCon used to be an event for Docker. Now they sold half the business to Mirantis. They're focusing on Docker developers. We have an event here. We're doing a virtual event. So, a lot more developer action coming. We'll talk more about that. Love to meet your founders, have them come in too. We want to thank you for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Milin Desai, CEO of sentry.io, former VMware executive with a great hot startup, Series C funded, growing here in Silicon Valley, San Francisco and in Austria. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (vibrant music)