>>The Cube is live with three different stages here at AW S Reinvent in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My name's Savannah Peterson, and I gotta tell you, even though the cube has been at AW w s reinvent for over a decade, this is my first year and wow, is it just buzzing in here? >>It's >>Busy, it's crowd, it's loud. >>So exciting to be here with you all. >>We're hearing north of 50,000 people, and I'm hearing hundreds of thousands online. >>No, it's going great. There's lots of buzz, lots of excitement this year, of course, three times a number of people, but it's fantastic. >>Everyone at the same place at the same time. Energy is just pretty special. So it's >>Fun. >>I mean, AWS is a friendly place for security companies and I'm excited to talk about that. >>Let's be here. We have a lot coming for you. We're super excited and if you think about it, it's price, performance, it's data, it's security, and it's solutions for purpose-built use cases. >>Great job. Congratulations. I love the mess. I love how you guys had the theme. I thought his keynote was great and it's great to see Amazon continue to innovate. >>My name is Savannah Peterson. We are the Cube and we are the leading source for high tech coverage.

>>Mm. Welcome back to the cubes. Continuous coverage of A W s reinvent 2021 were running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year with A W S and its ecosystem partners. And, of course, special thanks to a M D for supporting this year's editorial coverage at the event we got to live sets we had to remote sets one in Boston, one in Palo Alto. We've got more than 100 guests coming on the programme and we're looking >>deep into >>the next decade of cloud innovation. We're super excited to be joined by Ali Zafar, who is the senior director of platform strategy and operations at Dropbox Ali. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Awesome. It's a pleasure to be here with you, Dave. >>So Hey, what's your day job like at Dropbox? What's your role? >>Got it? Yeah. So I actually oversee the global supply chain at Dropbox. Also all of the capacity planning which entails both our budget and also capacity requirements and Dropbox. And then I also focus on the platform product management side which is basically building our build vs buy and our overall roadmap for our platform in the long run. >>Great. Thank you. So I mean, everybody knows Dropbox, But maybe you can talk a little bit about your business, your mission and how that's evolved. Over the past several years. >>Dropbox is a global collaboration platform, and our mission at Dropbox is to help design a more enlightened way of working. Dropbox has over 700 million registered users and over 550 billion pieces of content. So taking a step back, they've dropbox health. Let's use all of your content. Think of this as videos as music. Even your tax returns allows you to organise all of this content. And then you can share this content with anybody at any time. You can also take Dropbox to work. And actually, it makes you even more productive in the workplace integrating all of your tools seamlessly, also allowing you to collaborate with all of your teams internally and also externally. >>Yeah, so thank you. Uh, when Dropbox was founded, I mean, the cloud was really nascent, right? So it was early days, and so a lot has changed since you know, the mid last decade. And of course, with remote work and hybrid work that had to be a real tailwind to your business. But maybe you could explain your cloud and your hybrid cloud strategy. >>You're spot on Dave. So Dropbox has always been hybrid since its inception in 2000 and seven. And when I say hybrid, I mean, we have our own on prime infrastructure, and then we also leverage Public Cloud. Now, Public cloud still to these days remains absolutely critical for Dropbox to serve all of its customer needs. And when we talk about the decision between public or private, we think about three or four key things. One is the total cost of ownership. Look at the market. We also look at our customer requirements and the latest technology that's available in the market and then any international data storage requirements to make the decision of going towards public or private for that specific use case. >>So what if we could follow up on that? Like maybe you can talk about the key business, these conditions as a as a SAS storage provider? What are the real drivers in in your business framework? >>Got it at the end of the day, what really matters for us. There is to actually think about our customers and delight them And what better than to focus on performance, reliability and also security. Right. So we want to make sure that the infrastructure that we have today allows Dropbox to actually solve for the specific use case for our customers. What do they care about while also doing this in a very efficient management Manage, uh, way So to summarise that looking at performance, looking at liability, looking at scalability, looking at efficiency and then also compliance >>So that leads me to My next question is about the EC two instances that you use. I know you. You make heavy use of AMG compute. How >>did you >>come to that decision? Was that these factors was all performance. How did you migrate to really enable that capability? How complex was that? >>MD has has been a key strategic partners the partnership as well over 4 to 5 years right now and we've been leveraging them on our on prem infrastructure for compute. So we've always had aimed in our infrastructure. And when the time came where aws was also leveraging some of the MD instances, we wanted to see how we can expand the partnership with AMG and A W S and also experiment with these instances. So we looked at some of the tooling updates that were required. We also looked at specific instances which are either compute optimised and memory optimised instances. And then we actually build our footprint on M D. And what we saw is that the overall performance improvements and also cost improvements that we got for specific workloads. It was actually extremely, uh, overall awesome results for Dropbox and our customers, and we have been using them ever since. >>What kind of business impact did that make that make a difference to your business? That was noticeable >>on the business side, I think primarily it was more on the TCO side, which is where we got most of the benefits on the cost side. Um, and then also for some of our internal work clothes, we also saw benefit, uh, to our internal developers that are using some of those work clothes. >>Well, so you guys have kind of become the poster child for hybrid. A lot has been talked about about you all, but I wonder if you could help us understand what part of your infrastructure is going to be better served by public cloud versus kind of doing your own. I t on Prem. What are some of the value drivers that are that are making, you know, push workloads into the public cloud? Help us understand that better and squint through that >>got ready. I get asked that question a lot. So public cloud in general allows for faster go to market, Think about this as, like product launches teacher launches also international expansion. It allows us to scale and then also leveraging some of the existing technologies out there in the market for some of the common workloads. So just, you know, taking a step back and thinking about Dropbox. We keep on evaluating also the criteria and then also specific workloads on what makes sense on private or public load. And a W s had some instances, like as three rds and EC to that when we started looking at, we knew that some of our key services, like data platform, some parts of our, um, Melania and even paper platform would make more sense for us to actually leverage. Uh, some of these in public cloud for that. >>So what are the sort of characteristics of the workload that are sort of better suited to be in AWS? You know, what's the ideal workload profile? You know, we talk about ideal customer profile. What's the ideal workload profile for the for the AWS Cloud. >>Got it. So the way we think about it, at least we call it the rule of three at Dropbox. Um, and that means we look at scale. First, we look at technology and innovation. Um, and what I mean by that is, is there faster innovation in the public cloud? And is the workload common enough that there's already a lot of work going on in public Cloud? Then there's no reason for us to actually innovate faster than that. We probably can't. And if the scale is not large enough, right? So when we talk about our storage side like magic pocket, the scale is large enough. We're innovating. There makes sense, and it's better for the end customer, so we will probably go towards private cloud there. But then, when we talk about like international expansion, when we talk about, like, faster go to market or some of the innovation in the space. It really makes sense to use public Cloud because of all of the advancements that we've seen there. >>Yeah, so let me circle back to the sort of business benefits and impact of the sort of a MD based compute specifically. But you talked about TCO before. So there's certain things you mentioned on Prem you sometimes use You mean right. If the thing is hardened, you don't want to necessarily rip and replace it. But if you can accelerate, go to market and you spin up things in the cloud that makes sense. You mentioned customer requirements. So that's just kind of depends. And then the international expansion and scale. So it kind of comes down to those whatever. Four or five factors, right? Tco those other factors that I mentioned kind of the high level benefits, if you could, wouldn't mind summarising for us. Ali. >>Yeah, I think you're spot on there. So it's looking at the overall Decio, right? The cost of serving the overall cloud looking at like go to market in general, like can we leverage public cloud and go to market faster? Obviously, meeting that end customer requirements. We also looked at like international expansion, like any of the customer's data that is stored outside of the US is all on public load for Dropbox. Uh, no plans in the short term to do something different there, Um and then also just looking at, like I mentioned anything in the technology space that is ongoing, that we can leverage features side or the product side for our customers, like at Yale or, uh, VRML. We are going to leverage Public cloud there. >>So of course you know we've we've followed the progression of semiconductor technology for decades. This industry has marched to the cadence of performance improvements. What are the one of the futures hold from a technology roadmap standpoint, particularly as it relates to leveraging AMG EC Two instances, Ali >>got it. So drop boxes in a very unique position where we actually leverage AMG both on Prem and for public le leveraging some of the AWS EC two instances like like you mentioned and epic processors from MDR what we're using today, both on the hybrid infrastructure site and the performance and also the d. C o benefits are real and something that we are observing on a day to day basis. So we are gonna be leveraging that technology even in the future. Um, and the partnership with the MD continues to be very, very strong for Dropbox. >>Well, I really, really appreciate you coming on the cube as part of our coverage is great to have You love to have you back sometime. >>Awesome. Thank you. And also just last thing we wanted to also call out that we are also going to be experimenting with probably Milan that is coming out. Uh, room is the current process is from a m D. That we have been leveraging. And as Milan comes available, we do wanna continue to evaluate it and see how we can fit it in our infrastructure. >>Okay, So their their generations are city based, the all Italian city based. They were going to run out of cities soon. >>God, uh, again, the partnership with both A W s and an M. D is something that I'm very proud of. Execution. Thank you, Dave. >>Great to have you, Ali. And really appreciate you watching. Keep it right there for more action on the cube. Your leader in hybrid tech event coverage. Mhm.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. All right, you're continuing or we're continuing around the clock coverage and around the world coverage off a W s reinvent 2020 virtual conference This year, I'm guessing hundreds of thousands of folks are tuning in for coverage. And we have we have on the other end of the country a cube alarm. Stephen Towel, co founder and CTO of immunity. Stephen, welcome back to the show. >>Great. Great to be here. Thanks for having me again. I hope to match your enthusiasm. >>You know what is, uh, your co founder? I'm sure you could match the enthusiasm. Plus, we're talking about data governance. You You've been on the cute before, and you kind of laid the foundation for us last year. Talking about challenges around data access and data access control. I want to extend this conversation. I had a conversation with a CEO chief data officer a couple of years ago. He shared how his data analysts his the people that actually take the data and make business decisions or create outcomes to make business decisions spent 80% of their time wrangling the data just doing transformations. >>How's the >>Muda helping solve that problem? >>Yeah, great questions. So it's actually interesting. We're seeing a division of roles in these organizations where we have data engineering teams that are actually managing. Ah, lot of the prep work that goes into exposing data and releasing data analysts. Uh, and as part of their day to day job is to ensure that that data that they're released into the analyst is what they're allowed to see. Um and so we kind of see this, this problem of compliance getting in the way of analysts doing their own transformation. So it would be great if we didn't have to have a limited to just this small data engineering team to release the data. What we believe one of the rial issues behind that is that they are the ones that are trusted. They're the only ones that could see all the data in the clear. So it needs to be a very small subset of humans, so to speak, that can do this transformation work and release it. And that means that the data analyst downstream are hamstrung to a certain extent and bottlenecked by requesting these data engineers do some of this transformation work for them. Eso I think because, as you said, that's so critical to being able to analyze data, that bottleneck could could be a back breaker for organization. So we really think that to you need to tie transformation with compliance in order to streamline your analytics in your organization. >>So that has me curious. What does that actually look like? Because Because when I think of a data analyst, they're not always thinking about Well, who should have this data? They're trying to get the answer to the question Thio provide to the data engineer. What does that functionally looked like when that when you want to see that relationship of collaboration? >>Yeah, So we e think the beauty of a Muda and the beauty of governance solutions done right is that they should be invisible to the downstream analysts to a certain extent. So the data engineering team will takes on some requirements from their legal compliance. Seems such as you need a mask p I I or you need Thio. Hi. These kinds of rose from these kinds of analysts, depending on what the users doing. And we've just seen an explosion of different slices or different ways, you should dice up your data and what who's allowed to see what and not just about who they are, but what they're doing on DSO. You can kind of bake all these policies upfront on your data on a tool like Kamuda, and it will dynamically react based on who the analyst is and what they're doing to ensure that the right policies air being enforced. And we could do that in a way that when the analysts I mean, what we also see is just setting your policies on your data. Once up front, that's not the end of the story. Like a lot of people will tap themselves on the back and say, Look, we've got all our data protected appropriately, job done. But that's not really the case, because the analysts will start creating their own data products and they want to share that with other analysts. And so when you think about this, this becomes a very complex problem of okay. Before someone can share their data with anyone else, we need to understand what they were allowed to see eso being able to control the kind of this downstream flow of of transformations and feature engineering to ensure that Onley the right people, are seeing the things that they're allowed to see. But still, enabling analytics is really the challenges that that we saw that in Muda Thio, you know, help the the data teams create those initial policies at scale but also help the analytical teams build driven data products in a way that doesn't introduce data leaks. >>So as I think about the traditional ways in which we do this, we kind of, you know, take a data sad. Let's say, is the databases and we said, security rules etcetera on those data states. That's what you're painting to ISMM or of Dynamic. Has Muto approaching this problem from just a architectural direction? >>Yeah, great question. So I'm sure you've probably heard the term role based access control on, but it's been around forever where you basically aggregate your users in the roles, and then you build rules around those roles on gritty, much every legacy. Already, BMS manages data access this way. Um, what we're seeing now and I call it the private data era that we're now embarking on or have been embarking on for the past three years or so. Where consumers are more aware of their data, privacy and the needs they had their there's, you know, data regulations coming fast and furious with no end in sight. Um, we believe that this role based access control paradigm is just broken. We've got customers with thousands of roles that they're trying to manage Thio to, you know, slice up the data all the different ways that they need Thio. So instead, we we offer an accurate based access control solution and also policy based access control solution. We're. Instead, it's really about How do you dynamically enforced policy by separating who the user is from the policy that needs to be enforced and and having that execute at runtime? A good analogy to this is role based. Access control is like writing code without being able to use variables. You're writing the same block a code over and over again with slight changes based on the roll where actually based access control is, you're able to use variables and basically the policy gets decided at runtime based on who the user is and what they're doing. So >>that dynamic nature kind of lends itself to the public cloud. Were you seeing this applied in the world off a ws were here Reinvent so our customers using this with a W s >>So it all comes down to scalability so that the same reasons that used to separate storage from compute. You know, you get your storage in one place you could ephemera, lee, spin up, compute like EMR if you want. Um, you can use Athena against your storage in a server lis way that that kind of, um, freedom to choose whatever compute you want. Um, the same kind of concepts of apply with policy enforcement. You wanna separate your policy from your platform on that This private data era has has, you know, created this need just like you have to separate your compute from storage in the big data era. And this allows you to have a single plane of glass to enforce policy consistently, no matter what compute you're using or what a U s resource is you're using, um and so this gives our customers power to not only, um, you know, build the rules that they need to build and not have to do it uniquely her service in the U. S. But also proved to their legal and compliance teams that they're doing it correctly because, um, when when you do it this way, it really simplifies everything. And you have one place to go toe, understand how policies being enforced. And this really gives you the auditing and reporting around, um, be enforcement that you've been doing to put every one of these, that everything is being done correctly and that your data consumers can understand You know how your data is being protected. Their data is being protected. Um, and you could actually answer those questions when they come at you. >>So let's put this idea to the test a little bit. So I have the data engineer who kind of designs the security policy around the data or implements that policy using Kamuda Aziz dictated by the security and chief data officer of the organization. Then I have the analyst, and the analyst is just using the tools at their disposal. Let's say that one analyst wants to use AWS Lambda and another analysts wants to use our type database or analysis tools. You're telling me that Muda allows the flexibility for that analyst to use either tool within a W S. >>That's right, because we enforce policy at the data layer. Eso If you think about a Muda, it's really three layers policy authoring, which you touched on where those requirements get turned into real policies. Policy decision ing. So at query time we see who the user is, what they're doing on what policy has been defined to dynamically build that policy at run time and then enforcement, which is what you're getting at. The enforcement happens at the data layer, for example, we can enforce policies, natively and spark. So no matter how you're connecting to spark, that policy is going to get enforced appropriately. So we don't really care about what the clients Liz, because the enforcement is happening at the data or the compute layer is is a more accurate way todo to say it >>so. A practical reality off collaboration, especially around large data sets, is the ability to share data across organizations. How is immune hoping thio just make that barrier? Ah, little lower but ensuring security so that when I'm sharing data with, uh, analysts with within another firm. They're only seeing the data that they need to see, but we can effectively collaborate on those pieces of content. >>Yeah, I'm glad you asked this. I mean, this is like the, you know, the big finale, right? Like, this is what you get when you have this granularity on your own data ecosystem. It enables you to have that granularity now, when you want to share outside of your internal ecosystem. And so I think an important part about this is that when you think about governance, you can't necessarily have one God users so to speak, that has control over all tables and all policies. You really need segmentation of duty, where different parts of the organ hooking their own data build their own policies in a way where people can't step on each other and then this can expand this out. The third party data sharing where you can set different anonymous ation levels on your data when you're sharing an external the organization verse, if it's internal users and then someone else in your ord could share their data with you and then that also do that Third party. So it really enables and freeze these organizations Thio share with each other in ways that weren't possibly before. Because it happens in the day. The layer, um, these organizations can choose their own compute and still have the same policies being forced again. Going back to that consistency piece, um, it provides. Think of it is almost a authoritative way to share data in your organization. It doesn't have to be ad hoc. Oh, I have to share with this group over here. How should I do it? What policies should enforce. There's a single authoritative way to set policy and share your data. >>So the first thing that comes to my mind, especially when we give more power to the users, is when the auditors come and they say, You know what, Keith? I understand this is the policy, but prove it. How do we provide auditors with the evidence that you know, the we're implementing the policy that we designed and then two were ableto audit that policy? >>Yeah. Good question. So, um, I briefly spoke about this a little bit, but the when you author and define the policies in the Muda there immediately being enforced. So when you write something in our platform, um, it's not a glorified Wikipedia, right? It's actually turning those policies on and enforcing it at the data later. And because of that, any query that's coming through a Muda is going to be audited. But I think even more importantly, to be honest, we keep a history of how policy changes happening over time, too. So you could understand, you know, so and so changed the policy on this table versus other table, you know, got newly added, these people got dropped from it. So you get this rich history of not only who's touching what data and what data is important, but you're also getting a rich history off. Okay, how have we been treating this data from a policy perspective over time? How is it like what were my risk levels over the past year? With B six tables on? You can answer those kinds of questions as well. >>And then we're in the era of cloud. We expect to be able to consume these services via AP I via pay as you go type of thing. How is your relationship with AWS and how in the cutting. Ultimately, the customer. How do I consume a music? >>Yeah, so in Munich can pretty much be deployed anywhere. So obviously we're talking to us here. We have a SAS offering where you can spin up Muda pretrial and just be often running building policies and hooking up hooking our policy enforcement engine into your compute. Um, that runs in our, um you know, infrastructure. There's also a deployment model where you deploy immune it into your VPC s so it can run on your infrastructure. Behind your firewalls on DWI do not require any public Internet access at all for that to run. We don't do any kind of phone homing because, obviously, privacy company, we take this very seriously internally as well. We also have on premise deployments, um, again with zero connectivity air gapped environments. Eso. So we offer that kind of flexibility to our customers wherever they want immediate toe to be deployed. An important thing to remember their two is immediate. Does not actually store any data. We just store metadata and policy information. Um, so it's that also provides the customers some flexibility where if they want to use our SAS, they can simply go policy in there, and then the data still lives in their account. We're just kind of pushing policy down into that. Dynamically. >>So Stephen Towel co founder c t o of immunity. I don't think you have to worry about matching my energy level. I through some pretty tough questions at at you and you were ready there with all the answers. You wanna see more interesting conversations from around the world with founders, builders, AWS reinvent is all about builders and we're talking to the builders throughout this show. Visit us on the web. The Cube. You can engage with us on Twitter. Talk to you next episode off the Cube from AWS reinvent 2020.

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Ferrier, The Cube at AWS Reinvent 19 Lots of buzz. You can probably hear a little bit of it behind us here. There's about 65,000 people projected to be at a W s reinvent this week. Wow, we're very excited to welcome a distinguished guest and a distinguished architect from Splunk. Back to the Q r didn't murder, do you? Welcome back. >>Thank you very much. Thanks for having me back. >>Great to have you here. So let's kind of talk about here. We are re invent lots of news, lots of stuff. Lots of buzz going on. What kind of the latest with Splunk and a del us. >>All right, so the latest Splunk is obviously acquired us significance. The deal closed in trouble, So we're very excited about that. Um on we really feel that it's a it's a manager off complementary technologies, which is what I want some of the things we probably we can discuss later We're also very excited because we got acquired. Then we were able to go to dot com where we, you know, introduce the combined companies together. But then, at a cubicle on recently, we made a couple of very interesting product announcement that we're excited about, which is way discussing lots of reinvent conference. The 1st 1 is we have a brand new kubernetes experience called the community's Navigator, which we feel is a far, far better way Thio understand and make sense of the community environment. As you know, it's taking getting a lot of traction as a technology. So we're very excited about that because it not only gives you the infrastructure of you, but it also gives it the operators view, which I think operas. We really appreciate it. Three other thing that we're also focusing on. Obviously, if Splunk acquired US logs is an important part of this equation way are doubling down on the ability to ingest logs and make metrics out of them. You know, one of the things we've always discussed is how metrics every lightweight and actionable think that you can put on dashboard. You could put a lot son on the ability. Doing just logs and make them into metrics gives you that capability on the log data. We had a very interesting announcement around AWS. Fire lands on so on where you would be able to take love data from Splunk or other sources, and they bring them in as metrics to the system. The 13 has to do with the growing traction off open source standards. So we were actually very excited to make some contributions in the open telemetry project that we can discuss also later. But the idea is we want to promote open standards on open source, especially in instrumentation in the monitoring. Really? So that's kind of what's new >>question that's here at Amazon this week in this points to your success is observe ability, jazz he's laying out. This is distributed cloud Senator Gravity public Cloud Edge Outpost, Native AWS, Outpost five G with Verizon Wavelength All points to a lot of things. Move around, move compute to the edge where the data is so it speaks of large scale people having a hard time of doing it themselves on observe abilities. Harder and harder to roll your own are managed multiple tools. What are you guys doing to solve that problem? And how do you shape that going forward? >>That's a great question. Like the thing that blows my mind every time I come to reinvent is just the sheer variety of new things that comes across on. People are adopting them. All of these, he mentioned a bunch of different service is that I've got a lot of traction, got a lot of users, so that's happening across the user base. And then the question on D A. Y is because it's no longer about just building a database or, you know, things that you can sort some data and make some credit. It's about building the solution. A good solution. Need to support all the system. The service is that the customer the engineers are using right, so just keeping up with the sheer pace of innovation. Keeping that system up today is extremely, extremely hard. And so I feel that in generous making, less and less sense for most companies to try to roll their own observe ability, they would rather choose good tools that can sort of empower them that can able to move faster and invest in the people and process is part of it, which is also very, very key because >>the downside of rolling your own doing it yourself sure, what are some of the consequences that might happen? >>So in general, the people, the reason people want to build a couple of reasons, right? So one is they might undervalue, like the capabilities that good of the ruling might provide you, they might be afraid of the cost, like observe ability was cheap or free. Most people probably wouldn't build it. Some of them still vote because they might be afraid of vendor locking. Vendor lock in is a problem, and you don't want to be locked into vendors. Right? And what I feel in the terms of the risks is like if you consider observe ability as a cost center and not as an enabler, then you probably gonna try to do D i Y. But I think the view to the right view to have is think of it is something that accelerates your innovation and some of the risks of the advice. If you don't build something that's really capable that can that can do all the border or something that a system. Should you're gonna get slowed down, your innovation is gonna get slowed down. Another very thing, common pattern that we see a lot is maintaining, maintaining that it is a lot of resource is and people to build and maintain such a system. It's easy to prototype something and get it going, But are you going to be able to maintain the head count higher and grow the team on a long term basis? Because it's not something you can suddenly decide? Oops. I made a mistake. Time for a change. >>But change is difficult in any aspect of life. Changed management is something that we talk about office. It's way easier said than done. One of the things Andy Jassy talked about this morning and alluded to this and John's exclusive interview with him the other day was that the transformation needs to start at the top. It needs to be an executive level, a senior level and an aggressive tops down push in your experience in the last couple of years, what are some of the things that you're seeing companies in terms of the senior leadership embracing a understanding where D I y is useful where it's not, but also pushing that I want Oh my God, guys pushing it down from the top. So folks understand why this type of change is fundamental to a business to be competitive, >>right? So in general lighting, the focus is all on, like innovating, faster moving faster, keeping customers happy. Fundamentally, that's what we're doing. You know, our CMO Tom Bueller likes to say that you know the business. The Internet moves at the speed of life, a speed of life, Israel time, right? And so outages, Any kind of issues. They really affect your brand. And that's something that we need to avoid, like the plague, right? And that's gonna wear again. Observe. Ability comes in because this is the thing that's gonna allow you to find out renting There are. But more importantly, even when you don't have outages, the confidence that teams get in making changes, whether it be configuration changes or coat, which is a setup because they have a good system backing them up, is very, very critical. Right now. You can go D i y. You can go with a vendor solution, potentially terrifying, especially you can build one, but I think from top down. The important thing is like you have to be very clear about what you want out of it. And what are those things that you want to accelerate or make better in your organization? If your goal is, I want faster innovation, more code pushes, more changes, less deception like I feel that message needs to be done so that engineers understand that from management perspective, there's full support for this on their empowering you again. Where the two comes from is less important. But I think having those goals very clear and having that culture set from the top is very critical. >>A lot of open source discussions were hearing it here, laying out multiple databases you got pie towards you got tensorflow in machine, learning side on more and more kubernetes again, that's all speaks to where the service measures air going in. Micro Service's There's a lot of talk around open instrumentation open telemetry. What's your take on this? What is what's going on there? Can you share your commentary on those two things? >>Yes, so injured, as you know, like from the beginning, where since in Olympics started, we always believed that instrumentation should be open standards based. There should not be propriety instrumentation. They should be vendor lock in. It was a little bit perhaps ahead of the time, and we started off, but you can see that trend really accelerating now. But at this point, because of the sheer variety of service is and so on, it's very, very hard to build proprietary everything that supports all the all the things out there. What we're seeing is more bottoms up, open source, open standards efforts. Right, And that is great because A for the guys who are doing d i y. Because they don't want vendor lock in open standards is great because you're not really locked into a vendor in your environment. What you're doing is using a different back end, whether it be you know, your own or would it be a vendor's? Some of the things that we're doing is we're actually very happy to see this acceleration, and we're actually helping make that more so. Way just contributed pretty significant open telemetry project, which, as you know, is a way to instrument your environment for traces and metrics and logs eventually and so we actually donated the signal if Ickes smart Asian, which is pretty wonderful because it's a survey that's an agent that's running on your instances on your host, discovers as nuisances pop up. So, you know, speaking of community is the perfect fit for that, and it will start monitoring them and sending you did up on by making it by donating it to open telemetry. Were hoping to sort of accelerate out of the goodness and so that you know, all customers all use it. Whether they're significant customers or not should be able to benefit from that. >>Is an open source the source code? Or is it open as >>it's open source? There's two aspects to it is open standards as well as open. Both of them are happening because through the Amish in acquisition, we're now actually a pretty cool part of the open telemetry effort. So we're not really helping find finalize the standards, but also donating actual source code and components. >>Take a minute to explain. Signal FX is evolution now that you're in Splunk, right? What's changed? What's still the same? What's how is it? Evolve, how a signal effects evolved because you guys were really early ahead of it. A lot of people, but a lot of market power, great customer base and tech. What's the impact of Splunk and signal FX? >>Yes. So you know there's this cliche which is one plus one equals three. It kinda almost feels true here because, like I really, every time I think about this acquisition, it just feels how complimentary these two companies were because we have metrics and traces. Blanc has the best loss platform. But one of the things that we lot of times don't understand is he also a bunch of other technology which is highly relevant to the observe ability, space. For example, the acquired A company called Phantom, which is into automation, which is right up our alley because I feel like after all this mess has died down a little bit on communities, automation is gonna be the next frontier. They're fantastic. Automation platform built the security automation tool called Mission Control based on that, and now we're looking at how we can bring that into observe ability. Another example is incident management, Broncos Victor Ups, which is again exactly right up our alley. So we feel that we can really build a portfolio of solutions that work really, really well, that's one aspect. The other aspect, as you mentioned, is just the market power. And the resource is that's behind us, which is wonderful. For example. They're quite our mission, which is a fantastic complimentary technology to us, and we're working very quickly to sort of integrate the two together. Similarly, is getting the introductions. Having the financial benefit of a Splunk behind us is wonderful to have. So I think it'll only accelerate our >>congratulations on a great venture. I know you guys stayed the course and rightfully so great payday. But great outcome with Splunk Win is a win win. Yes, I gotta ask you the entrepreneurial question because a lot of people are saying, Oh my God, Amazon sucking up all the auction out of the room, Large scale. Got red shifts taking over this. That's taking over that someone's eating someone. Okay, I don't believe that. I believe that there's still a lot of opportunity for entrepreneurs because of this Born in the cloud and reborn in the cloud a new next gen architectures are developing with EJ. What's your opinion on this? As a cloud of alls What's the dynamics? And entrepreneurs and people thinking about innovating and either pivoting or reimagine their business? How should they be thinking about how to win in the new model? What are some of the architectural things that could bet on? What's your expert opinion on that? >>That's a good question. So I have some thoughts on it. Everybody might area once, right? So I feel like move to cloud is just happening. It's happened. Everything is going to move to the cloud. So I think the fundamental technologies like the databases, etcetera, that cloud provided they're always gonna have an advantage because they're going to be able to run it in a more performance way. But the thing that they're doing us a great favour are entrepreneurs is they're making a lot of different service is available to us now. They're not always necessarily all working well together to solve a specific use case. So I feel that they're giving us a tool set, among other things, to combined together to provide solutions for the problems that users organizations are facing. Not necessarily the platform but but the solution, the vertical on top of it. I think there's a lot of opportunity there, as well as sort of just new types of technology you can. As an entrepreneur, you can still build technology that the cloud provider might find as valuable, and they might want to buy you there right when I use you. So there's always opportunity there. But I think they're so busy building that the substrate, this enormous amount of opportunities for further up north. That's kind of my opinion. >>That's great opinion. >>Last question for you on the parlay of opportunity and the career that you've had as cloud is evolving the next gen of the cloud to Toto that John's calling it, and data becomes the critical element that can fine business differentiation and competitive advantages. What are some of the next industries you really think our prime to completely transform? If they get it right, >>I think we're still stop. It is a whole lot of talk of machine learning. I think we're just scratching the surface. I think what's happened is at this point it has become accessible enough on viable enough to be applied to different places. So every day we see a new headline where basically similar techniques were applied to this use case or that this case, and it's amazing being health care, transportation, you name it like digital business. It's happening all the way on our side, on our side of the fence. I feel a Splunk or a signal effects. We want to see a lot of that happening on our side of the fence, because again, because of the complexity, wonder thing that we have discussed with John earlier is how we feel machine learning and artificial intelligence gonna help us operate more efficiently because humans are going to be able to not really rock the entire complexity of what's out there. So I feel there's a lot of assistance that it can provide. That's one area which I think is interesting, And I feel also that one of the things we discussed within Signal FX is his move towards automation automated everything because complex systems, they just need to run themselves At some point. Humans cannot really go and make all the decisions like my my mainframe, itjust kind offer it to tell you we're not really in the middle of it, right to some extent. Similarly, I feel there's not a lot of action gonna happen on Automated Cloud and automated opposite really automated everything. So I think that's another sort of big area that I see happening on one thing that I also like to say that I don't want to make predictions because, like the world is so different from 10 years ago to now, it just blows my mind. I don't know whether I would have been able to sort of think what's gonna happen. So I only wonder what the next five years they're gonna >>bring. Love that opponent. You're >>right. Even a few years ago today, mine are just thank you for joining John A B on today. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much >>for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Reinvent 19 and Vegas will be right back.