>>Yes. >>Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm joined by two Cube alumni. Please welcome Tarazi, senior vice president and CEO, networking at Dell Technologies. Welcome back. And welcome to the Virtual >>Cube. Thank you. I'm excited about this. Thank you. >>We're gonna have a good conversation, because VJ Ramachandran is also here. VP of product management at VM Ware VJ Welcome back. >>Thank you, Lisa. And happy to be here again. >>So have a lot to unpack. We're on the cusp of the emerald 2021. You guys are making an announcement We want to talk about in the Emmy. Why? It's important will break down the announcement. Go ahead and start. Uh, we'll start with you. Envy me. Why is it important? What is it? All that good stuff? >>Yeah, this is excellent topic, and this is really an important component of infrastructure these days. Um, modern applications are changing how they consume infrastructure. That's because the workloads are evolving. Some of them are ai type machine learning workloads that need very high performance. There's also a continued to end by our customers to put work clothes in public cloud and on um and create a hybrid multi cloud model. Um, and also the new exciting stuff is all have to do with the edge applications and distributing applications everywhere with automation and connectivity to where they need to be operating with, you know, on premise. Uh, so long Storey short, These trends, these new applications, how the deployment models work is really diving the need for envy me becoming the key technology for getting your data and storage and with envy me of a fabric and connectivity is starting to become a very important topic. >>How do you have those discussions with customers in terms of their next steps, especially in the last year and a half will stay with you that we've seen such acceleration of digital transformation. What have those customer conversations? How have they changed? >>Uh, they the conversations have changed in two big ways. One, they really want to discuss outcomes. They know that we can bring, you know, industry leading infrastructure and tools and automation and software. But they really want to discuss outcomes, you know? How do you How do I automate my you know, operations? How do I get to unpack the value of my data? no matter what the data is eyes and where it's coming. So so that's the first big changes. People have shifted completely to outcomes. And the second change is that now there is a really good discussion about performance and sustainability. How do I make sure that I'm meeting my sustainability goals? I'm meeting my performance goals instead of just discussing one piece of the solution. >>Got a BJ wanna bring you into the conversation? Now talk to me about BME Front and its evolution from VM Ware's perspective and some of the changes that you've seen in the last dynamic 18 months in the market. >>Yeah, thanks. Thanks for being, You know, I think that we are living in interesting times now. What we're seeing from the standpoint is that applications are evolving rapidly, demanding more performance, local agencies, higher throughput. And these are modern applications and NBA me. What we're seeing is that NBN me as a protocol is becoming the de facto sort of connected with protocol police applications at the same time. What we're also seeing is that the infrastructure team at scale and then deploy these applications at scale They are moving towards a disaggregated architecture in the data centre, and all the employees are going towards this because they want to emulate, you know, the public club. And so you know what's exciting about this announcement and sort of the, you know, the you know, what we are delivering together the bell is that the combination of Indian P plus T c p I P provides in sort of brings both these worlds together. It provides performance and legacies that these new applications these these new modern applications need at the same time provides a way that is disaggregated. And so the combination of these two is You know, it's, uh, industries changing, in my opinion, and and we'll see that this will become sort of the the fact that we can deploy infrastructure in our data centres. And that's what we're seeing in December. >>Got it? Thank you. Let's go ahead and unpack that announcement. That VJ alluded to telling them or have announced an end to end envy. Any TCP ecosystem solution back over to you. You have talked to me about this. What is it? What are some of the core components and we'll get into >>benefits. Perfect. So So we both see envy any of D c P I p as this new future storage connectivity. And it is a pivotal moment for the industry. There's always been debate about what protocols you use for connecting storage for performance speed. But the time has come for envy any of the TCP IP to become the defect of future protocol. Uh, what we're announcing is, first of all, we're announcing a new, uh, software product called S S s from Dell. And that software product will automate the discovery provisioning and automate the setup of all the storage networking How you connect all the hosts to the storage targets in a fully automated way. This is something that has been very complex, very hard to do manually in a one by one. So that's a whole new software product. Number two announcing the availability of envy me over TCP I pee on our key Dell products, which is power store power edge, which is our server product, and also power switch, which is our networking product. So the combination of the new software tool S. S s and all the availability of envy. Emile, that TCP ip on our compute storage and networking that gives customers the ecosystem to be able to use it along with the capabilities that are essential for it. >>Yeah, And DJ head was going to add to what you have just said. You know, of course, being there is fully committed to bringing this, uh, option of NBA me, You know, along with the partnership, Del, um you know, to the market and has been our partnership has been instrumental in bringing this to the market. Now, you know, the cool thing about this particular announcement and, you know, and what to bring to the market is that the smart fabric, uh, services manager is actually built into the centre. So, you know, from the understand point of this fear administrator being the administrator can so stay with them. They're the centre, um, you know, console and be able to manage provision, manage and monitor, Um, you know, in the in your fabric, uh, me or the PCP, uh, connexions. And so it's sort of bridges the gap between storage and, uh, world with you will >>and also the V sphere. The launch of, uh, envy any of the TCP I p and V. Sphere seven you see is the last component of this announcement between putting S S s inside the Centre V sphere enhancements and the Dell products. The end result is the customers get this bump and new capability. However, they can continue to use all the management tools that they have today. So this is an easy automated lift and they get this new capability >>an easy automated lift. Though that sounds like magic to I'm sure a lot of folks ears sticking with you talk to me about this is a new direction for Dell and talk to me a little bit about that and the impact. >>I think the new direction is that we have supported multiple protocols for connectivity fibre channel R d m A. But I think now, as we go to this next evolution and the fact that the world is going to multi cloud and edge and distribution, the new direction here is we're putting a lot of investment and energy, both of us into making envy me over TCP IP automated and high performance. As VJ said, we've been collaborating for over two years on this project jointly that included new standards, new innovation, new software capabilities, new divers on all our products. So although we make it sounds simple. This is a company wide on both sides. Innovation effort to make this possible. >>Absolutely a big innovation effort. DJ, Go >>ahead. And I was gonna say, you know, just to second what we have said, we work as one team you know, begin to companies. But we work as one team and really brought some innovative features and functionality out of the market and, you know, too excited to see this come to fruition. We're working on it for two years now. >>So two years before the pandemic started, I'm curious to get both of your perspectives on how the tunnels of the economy and the market of the last 18 months have influenced. We've seen so much acceleration in digital. How has this interesting time affected or accelerated what you're announcing? Or has it? >>I will start on V say, you know, whatever you'd like to add is that I think what we have seen during the pandemic is acceleration of adopting of a cloud operating model by using more of public cloud but also using automation that we have built into our products, both vm ware and L. And so this kind of automated type software tools falls completely in line with that. You know, customers more and more want the infrastructure automated and they wanted cloud light with as a service, usage based type models. And we're both invested into that area. >>Yeah, And you know, Lisa, if anything at all in the last, uh, two years since the Pandemic, what we're what we're refining is that it's no longer a decision between on Prem or Public Club, But it's actually and and decision, you know, it's on from and public clothes is truly becoming a multicultural world. And so to make this multi cloud, and then customers deploy the right applications and write workload in the right place, depending on the needs. And so, in this multiple world, having this automation and having a consistent way too, uh, to manage infrastructure, uh, in an automated fashion across these multi coloured deployments is becoming key. And so this is a key component of that. What we did, what pronouncing is a key component of that kind of a model, that customers are moving to >>it. Let's talk about the customer benefits you both mentioned performance sustainability, low latency, high throughput. Give me examples of each of those of how this technology will deliver that for customers across industries. >>This is where we've really enjoyed working together and with VJ and his team did fantastic work to test the value of having this partnership is the end to end. Customer sees the performance and benefit from the eyes of using both the software stack from Dell and VM Ware as well as the infrastructure below it. And we've been able to jointly test what the customer will see and what we have seen, which I have to say was a surprise to us. We expected benefits, but even it was one of those Aha moment. Oh my God, this is We thought it was good, but it turned out to be even better. So on the performance side, it's about 2.5 to 3 times the performance of ice crazy, which is the other technology we would compare this to on the Latin Seaside is 70% less latency and uses even less capacity in terms of CPU. We have not seen that kind of performance improvement from a protocol for a very long time. Changing networking protocols usually gives you some little benefit, but not this kind of a step functional performance. So I think the customers will be very excited about this. >>These are some numbers, PJ go ahead and extend onto that. >>No, I You know, I have nothing more to add because, you know, we having extremely encouraged by the performance numbers that you know, that we saw and, you know, and and and here, this red we actually exceeded expected our expectations, right? And if you, the enemy, was the was the right way to sort of, you know, delivered performance. But, uh, you know, to see this kind of results in real world as, uh is very encouraging. >>You guys said there are several sessions at BM world that are covering this topic. I'd like to get both of your perspectives on some of the sessions that you're presenting in and some of the key takeaways that the audience can learn. I have. We'll start with you. >>Yeah. I mean, we're starting with a session to explain the overall strategy, and we're gonna show demos. Exactly how would you use VM Ware software and L s F s s to configure Implement. How does that compare to the customer experience today? That's going to be an exciting session between myself and Paul Turner, who is the VP of product. Also at the end, where I think that that kind of with these visual demos, people will see how fast automated that is, which is really the message here. Then we have multiple sessions from our key technical experts. We're gonna go through a deep technology review of the stack and how to do it. And the functionality. >>Yeah, and Lisa on on the other side of obviously you have a number of sessions on various topics. Uh, on storage. The one that I want to call out is there's a session that I'm doing with Mark flashing who's a city or for storage and for club platform. Really. And we are discussing VMS vision and strategy for storage and availability, and NBA me is certainly a key part of that. But as we just talked earlier, the whole automation and the multiplayer aspect of, uh of the parameters it's critical. So you know. So we're sharing what? How we are approaching this whole multiple world. Um, in this, you know, with storeys and availability innovation. So I'm really excited about that. >>So a lot of news coming out on the nbn me over TCP ip front talked about the collaboration acceleration of that, the directional shift in terms of go to market and availability. When where can existing customers go to learn more information? What's the joint gtm that Del. And then we have, >>uh I think you wanna start on V sphere and I'll add or >>Okay, >>so all the products we talked about today from V sphere seven dot you the power store power edge All of them will be available starting immediately after VM World And between October and November, everything we talked about will be available And during the, um, world, we will announce how customers can use it downloaded by it. As we said before, because they are a s s s is implemented into the centre. This will be a familiar way for customers to use it downloaded and implemented, and a new lease of these fears something customers are used to. We have many customers on power store, so they will be getting a new software at least an update with the new functionality. We we do plan to care developer experience, modules, sandboxes for people to play with will make more announcements on that in the future. >>Yeah, And this, You know, as you have said, this functionality is built into, you know, the spear and recenter as well. And so the next really next release of the sphere will have this functionality. And you'll see a lot of noise about this at the world. That sort of our coming out party. Mm. >>Excellent. Well, it sounds like it's going to be a good coming out party with a lot of information to come around. The emerald timeframe, some great education and deep technical dive is that you guys and your teams will be providing to customers in all industries, which I'm sure they will be very much appreciative of. I appreciate both of you coming on sharing with me the news. What's exciting about this? The impact that's going to make and we look forward to hearing some of the news as it gets rolled out. >>Thank you. >>Thank you so much. >>Lisa. Thank >>you. Great to have you guys for Ihab Tarazi and VJ Ramachandran. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching a cube >>conversation? Mm.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover Virtual Experience Brought to You by HP >>I Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover. 2020. The virtual experience I'm Stew Minimum course This year we're getting to talk to HP, their customers and their partners where they are around the globe. We said many times these were, you know, together, even while we're art happy to dig into a really important partnership with HP and VM Ware. Welcome to the program. First time guest on the program Christmas Satterthwaite. She is the vice president of product management for Compute with Packard Enterprise and welcome back to the program Lee Caswell. He is the vice president, product marketing for hyper converged infrastructure, her at VM Ware talking about V sphere and how that gets bundled into everything else. Chris Stanley, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having us. >>Alright, So, Chris, let's start with you. So you know, like a little bit about your background? The HP and HP relationship with VM Ware, you know, goes back to you know, the earliest days, but, you know, give us a little bit about you know where in the portfolio you focus on and and how VM Ware fit, then >>Oh, sure, sure. So I've been with H P E for 23 years now, and I'm leading the business for Alliance and Synergy and talking a little bit about the relationship with VM Ware. So we've been partnering for 19 years and we have over 200,000 joint customers together. And I'm actually often asked about the partnership and how we partner and we really partner across all fronts. So it's from the innovation for the co engineering, the working with specific customers on what solutions are good for them to servicing our customers. So we're really working across the board, and a lot of customers we work with closely are really impressed with how closely we're working together, because that's what they look for. >>Yeah, and we it's it's It's an interesting relationship to watch. Obviously, you know, long history Chris talked about on the it side, but the VM partnership is more than just the compute. Maybe gives a little bit of a view inside. You know, the joint engineering go to market efforts that you do. >>Yeah. I mean, customers always sit up straight when we talk together, because both hard companies or just raw engines of innovation and they look forward to not just the capabilities or bringing, but also the seamless way that we integrate that and make that seamless and easy for customers to digest. So certainly on the server front through V sphere, that's been a longstanding, uh, participation the VM Ware Cloud Foundation. Then this fully software defined stack became a really interesting way for us to go in partner and show joint value to customers who are trying to basically get more speed the speed. We're gonna talk about a lot that today and then finally, the confirmation that we've opened up into storage systems, right? So there's certainly a hyper converged element of it. But now what we do with Nimble three Par and now I'm Era is a really interesting way for us to take the vehicle technology that we have and extend the common operating model. So really just interesting innovation for customers that take advantage of as they look to innovate themselves. >>Krista, from from a research standpoint, you know, we were really early in watching, you know, new models of building out storage. And we said, You know, the pendulum has swung back to pull it much closer to the compute you talked about. You've got a broad portfolio and compute. You know, synergy has some really interesting, you know, ways to be able to compose things and leverage software capabilities. So maybe give >>us a >>little bit of how HP differentiates in the market cause, you know, VM Ware does partner with lots of people. But you know what separates the's point solution? Everything else out in the market? >>Sure, and synergy is a great example, because what we're seeing is really, really high interest on on synergy with VCF. And the reason for that is because customers want a software to find infrastructure that they can compose, compute storage and networking as they need to to address any workload they have. And they want to do that with a partner like VM Ware and VCF. So what we see is customers choosing those two things together and building their hybrid cloud environments on those two. When I think of some of the customers that we have, I'll give you a specific example. So Banco Santander's one of the largest banking groups in the world. And they are really trying to drive innovation across all of their, um, locations there in North America, South America, Europe, Asia. They're trying to drive innovation across. They have a big project, and they selected Synergy and VCF and as a service green lake bottle to help them transform their business. And they're really excited because what they think this is providing to them is a reduced a data center space, reduced power consumption and reduce costs. And all of that with automation, more automation than they've had in the past. More flexibility than they've had in the past. >>Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the Green Lake because you know, those as a service models. You know, Cloud obviously has been a big discussion for the last two years, Lee, Um, you know, VM Ware is no stranger to, you know, working in multi and hybrid environments. It gives a little bit about you know what you're hearing from your customers. You know, if you meant Green Lake, how does that fit in the overall? You know, VM Ware multi cloud offering. >>Well, you know, we all know these air uncertain times, right? and customers and uncertain times. We're looking for flexibility. How do they go? And basically, you know, invest smartly, right? Look to come out of uncertain times stronger. And what we're finding is that the flexibility, you know, starting it. You know, we're really impressed with this energy platform, by the way, the idea of being able to flexibly, configure, compute and storage to tie into external arrays from that end, to have the VM Ware Cloud Foundation is a unifying, software defined data center concept that's available on Prem and then extends into the hybrid cloud. This basic gives investment protection to customers who are looking for how to invest in. You know, you mentioned Green Lake as well, and I just mentioned that innovation on Green Lake is about true consumption based purchasing miles, if you will. And that's different than just a financial engineering aspect. I mean, that's real innovation and real technical innovation in terms of how customers can go in a why infrastructure at the time that they needed relative to that compelling business models, >>and I'll chime in their Teoh, I'll tell you a little story about when I first presented the green like model. At that time, it wasn't called Green Lake, but I presented it to a bunch of customers, about 100 customers in an advisory council. And I have never had so many people come up to me afterwards trying to figure out how they can get that for themselves as I did when I had that presentation. What really resonated with people is that they wanted to take advantage of the latest and greatest technologies, but they didn't have big budgets. And when they did take advantage of those technologies, one of the challenges has been growth. So when they need to expand, that's another procurement cycle. You have a way to have the standard all love with Green Lake. You actually have that added capacity on sites and then also painful what you use s so they were attracted to all of those things. And I feel like right now and the environment were in many people had big, big projects, things they want to do, and they may have planned those ah, a capital expenditure for that. But that money may not be there, So Green Lake is one of those things that can help overcome that challenge. And what we found is when people use green like we don't see many people. Um, go back. So what? I was talking to the green like team, and I said, You know what happens if they decide not to do Green Lake and they're kind of pause, and they're like, Well, we really haven't run into that very often. So it's very, very popular, and customers were really happy with it. >>Yeah. Talking about innovation and helping customers take advantage of new technologies. You know, maybe we'll start with you and Krista. Definitely want your but been a lot of feedback about V. Sphere seven. Of course, One of the big pieces of that is how, you know, cloud native container ization kubernetes It can be pulled into the, you know, the virtualization platform. So we're talking a lot about vcf Lee. That's the you know. Wait. Get it. The community's piece today. Tell us a little bit about that and what you hear from customers. And then Chris, I'd like to understand how that fits into the HP offering. >>Yeah, you know, the data we have shows that 95% of new applications are being developed on containers. Why? Because it's the speed of ill. And so at VM Ware, we've re architected V sphere for the first time that, you know in the last five years. And you look carefully at what the EMR integrates into the hyper visor because that's what we believe is going to be really benefiting from performance efficiency and management. And so we've integrated kubernetes directly into the hyper visor itself and then to our Tom's, a portfolio. Introduce an upstream compatible kubernetes development environment so that we have developer ready infrastructure. And that's really important because at the speed of new applications, basically you need to be able to respond quickly to those and what VM Ware has always offered right, which is a resilient underlying infrastructure with an intrinsic security model built in conceptually important when containers are being spun up more quickly. All right, mark quickly. They're being portable and portable across the hybrid cloud. Those models right mean that you need and convince you get value right from this integrated model that leverages all of the experience and knowledge that people have around how to run V Center and V Sphere so really exciting, and it's available in VCF for with >>I actually see the interest. I see customers asking about an enquiring about it. Vikan, you know, definitely second everything that we just said. I think you're really you're going to see a really fast transition over because there's so much value. Add it in. >>Excellent. Okay, Crystal, while I've got you on the compute piece, you know, legally said that 95% of application new applications are being built on container ization. How has that impacted architecture, er and how you're working with? >>Yeah. So what I find is that customers are very interested in containers. What we're doing is we're helping them from a services standpoint. A consulting standpoint of many of these customers are adopting for the first time trying to figure out how they could they could leverage containers in their environment. From our standpoint, it's making sure that we have the right platforms and we're advising and consulting and helping customers get there. >>Excellent, Lee. You know, Kristen talked about a sense and under one wondering if you've got any customer examples you like to share? >>Yeah. Great. One is ah, portion. I love the portion example. Just because portion, just the epitome of speed. And so the idea of this flexibility well, you're finding rate is the flexibility, right? Starting from, let's say, from a synergy, I'm flexible on the part of their allocation, right? And then, with VCF right now being able to be flexible across the hybrid cloud and now with VCF or with ponzu, the flexibility of introducing new modern applications support on Finally Layer and Green Lake On top of that which which is also using it, gives you this idea that you know, especially in uncertain times. But, you know, regardless, the changing business environment where everyone's responding, toe app, development rushers, timelines and innovation. We've got a really interesting model now for customers to invest responsibly and be able to respond quickly. >>Hm. Excellent. Crystal, I guess. Said the other pieces were at discover any updates on the portfolio expanding the VM solution. That >>Yeah. Yeah. So I'd like to talk a little bit about our pre validated synergy vcf solution stack with built in automation. So we literally got rid of hundreds of that's pre and post employment so we could speed deployment by five times. We were talking to point in hours instead of weeks. So we're really, really excited about that. We're working together to make sure we're making things easier for customers making that journey to a hybrid cloud very, very simple. So we're really happy to have, you know, offer that to customers. >>Great Lee, Any any final words you can share on the partnership? You >>know what I might say? It's right that the pace of innovation from our companies right is so great, Right? That really v vm Ware Cloud Foundation is a way, you know, in our joint effort and joint delivery rate is a way for customers to assimilate all of this innovation. So that day zero, it's guaranteed the work. And that day two, you can lifecycle manage all the individual components from a common sec manager interface. That's the value that we're bringing together today. Is that Listen, you know, putting all this in place conceived, daunting until the VM Ware Cloud Foundation, with synergy with all of the joint value we have basically makes it manageable so that you can go and basically stop looking down it infrastructure. Look up the ass. >>All right. Christine will let you have the final word and final takeaways from HP Discover. >>Okay, sure. Thanks. Together. What we're trying to do is simplify that journey to hybrid cloud. Make sure that customers can innovate faster, provide stable operations and reduce their costs. >>Well, Chris Stanley, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the progress. Looking forward. Toa watching down the road. >>All right, thanks. >>Alright, Stay tuned for lots more coverage from the Cube, HP Discover 2020. Virtual experience on stew Minimum. Thanks for watching. Yeah, >>yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from the Silicon Angle Media office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >>Hello, everyone. And welcome to this breaking analysis. We're here to assess the VM Ware v Sphere seven announcement, which is the general availability of so called Project Pacific. VM Ware has called this the biggest change to V sphere in the last 10 years. Now Project Specific Pacific supports kubernetes and natively in VM Ware environments. Why is this important? This is critical for multi and hybrid cloud because Kubernetes and its surrounding orchestration enable application portability and management. Yeah, as we've been reporting, VM Ware is one of the big players eyeing multi cloud, along with a crowded field of aspirants that include IBM with Red hat, Microsoft, Cisco, Google and a host of specialists in the ecosystem. Like how she and rancher as well play. Some players have focused in their respective stack swim lanes like security and data protection, storage, networking, etcetera. And with me to dig into this announcement is stew. Minutemen's Do is a senior analyst at Wiki Bond and co host of The Cube is too good to see you and let's get into it great to talk about this state. Okay, so the Sphere seven, what is being announced? And why is it relevant? >>Yes. So, David, as you said in the open, this is the general availability of what they talked about at VM World 2019 as Project Pacific. So it really is integrating kubernetes into V sphere. The VM ware, of course, will position this is that they're now enabling, you know, the 90% of the data centers around the world that have VM ware. Hey, your kubernetes enabled. Congratulations. You're cloud native. Everything like that. Only being a little facetious here. But this is very important. How do we get from where we were to live in this more cloud? Native environments. So containers in general and kubernetes specifically are being a first class citizen. There's a lot of work, Dave, and my understanding this has been going on for a number of years. You know, it's not like they just started working at this six months ago. A overhaul to how this works. Because it's not just we're going to stick a couple of containers on top of, you know, the guest operating system in the virtual machine. But there is a supervisor cluster for kubernetes at the hyper visor level. And there's a lot of, you know, in the weeds things that we're all trying to understand and figure out because you've got you know, we've got a hyper visor and you've got VM. And now you've got the containers and kubernetes on. Some of them are living in my data center. Some VM ware, of course, lives on multiple clouds like the VM ware on AWS. Solutions of this will go there on and, you know, how do I manage that? How does this impact my operations? You know, how did this change my application portfolio? Because, you know, the early value proposition for VM Ware always was. Hey, you're gonna put VM ware on there. You don't need to touch your applications. Everything runs like it did before you were running windows APS on a physical server. You move into virtual. It's all great. There's a lot of nuance and complexity. So when VM Ware says this is the biggest change in a decade probably is, I think back to you know, I remember when the fx 2.0, rolled out in V motion really changed the landscape. That was big V balls. Move to really ah storage. To really understand that architecture and really fix storage was was a huge undertaking that took many years. This this definitely stacks up with some of those previous changes to really change the way that we think about VM Ware. I think the advertising you have even seen from being where some places is don't think of them as VM ware their cloud where our container ware with like because vm zehr still there. But VM Ware is much more than VMS today, >>so this feels like it's bm were trying to maintain its relevance in a cloud native world and really solidify its because, let's face it, VM Ware is a platform that Pat Gelsinger's has ride. The Waves tried many times in many angles to try to ride the cloud wave, and it's finally settled on the partnerships with AWS specifically. But others on DSO really Is this their attempt to become cloud native, not get left behind and be cloud naive? His many say >>Yeah, great question, David. Absolutely. There's the question as to you know what's happening with my applications, you know lots of customers. They say, Well, I'm just going to satisfy the environments. Watched the huge growth of companies like service now workday. Those applications, well, customers don't even know what they live on. Do they live on virtualization? Environment is a containers I don't need to worry about because SAS takes care of that. If I'm building modern applications, well, I'm probably not starting with VMS. Containers are the way that most people are doing that. Or they might even be going serverless now if we take these environments. So how does VM ware make sure that they have the broadest application support? Kubernetes really won the container orchestration wars on. And this is a way that VM ware now can enable customers to move down that path to modernize their environments on. And what they wanna have is really some consistency between what's happening in the cloud and happening in the environments that they control >>themselves. Vm ware saying that containers in our first class citizen within v sphere what does that mean? Why is that important? First of all, are they really And what does that mean? And why is that important? >>Yes. So, Dave, my understanding is, you know, absolutely. It's their, You know, the nuances that you will put there is. You know, we're not just running bare metal servers with Lennox and running containers on top of it. It is. You're still sitting on top of the hyper visors. One of the things I'm trying to understand when you dig down is you know what? The device driver level VM ware always looked a little bit like Linux. But the people that use it and operate it, they're not letting people Dave, these, you know, the OS. The number one os that always ran on VM ware was Windows and the traditional applications that ran there. So when we talk about containers and we're enabling that in a kubernetes environment, there are some questions about how do we make sure that my applications get certified? Dave, you got a lot of history knowing things like s ap and Oracle. I need to make sure that we've tested everything in this works. This is not what we were running traditionally in VM ware and VM ware. Just thanks. Hey, v Sphere seven, turn the crank. Everything certified Well, I would tell customers make sure you understand that your application has been tested, that your Eyes V has certified this environment because this is definitely, as VM Ware says, a huge architectural change. So therefore, there's some ripple effects to make sure that what I'm doing in this environment stays fully supported. Of course, I'm sure VM Ware is working with their huge ecosystem to make sure that all the pieces or environment you mentioned things like data protection. We absolutely know that VM Ware is making sure the day one the data protection plugs in and supported in these environments when you're using the kind of kubernetes persona or containers solutions in V sphere. >>Well, this brings me to my next question. I mean, we were talking to Bernard Golden the other day and he was saying, You know, Kubernetes is necessary for multi cloud, but it's insufficient. And so this seems to me to be a first step and, as I say, VM ware maintaining and growing its relevance. But there's gonna be a roadmap here that goes beyond just containers and portability. There's other management factors you mentioned security of enabling the ecosystem to plug in. So maybe talk about that a little bit in terms of what's necessary to really build this out over the next >>decade. And actually, it's a great point. So, first of all, you know, V. Sphere, of course, is the core of VM Ware's business. But there's only a piece of the overall portfolio said this lives in. I believe they would consider this part of what they call their Tansu family. Tando is their cloud native overarching piece of it, and one of the updates is their product hands admission control. Which of the existing product really came out of the Hep D Oh acquisition is how we can really manage any kubernetes anywhere, and this is pure software. Dave. I'm sure you saw the most recent earnings announcement from VM Ware, and you know what's going sass. What's going subscription? VM Ware is trying to build out some of their software portfolio that that isn't kind of the more traditional shrink wrap software, so Tan Xue can manage any kubernetes environment. So, of course, day one Hey, obviously or seven, it's a kubernetes distribution. Absolutely. It's going to manage this environment and but also if I've got Cooper days from azure kubernetes from Amazon communities from other environment. Tanja can manage across all of those environments. So when when you're what VM Ware has always done. If you think back in the early days of virtualization, I had a lot of different servers. How do I manage across those environments? Well, VM ware was a layer that lived across them. VM Ware is trying to do the same thing in the cloud. Talk about multi cloud. And how do I manage that? How do we get value across them? Well, there's certain pieces that you know VM Ware is looking to enable with their management software to go across them. But there are a lot of other companies, you know, Amazon Google actually not Amazon yet for multi cloud. But Microsoft and Google absolutely spent a lot of time talking about that in the last year. A swell as you mentioned. Companies like Rancher and Hashi Corp absolutely play across What Lots of these multi cloud. Well, >>let's talk about the competition. Who do you see is the number one competitors >>Well, so the number one competitor absolutely has to be red hat, Dave. So you know, when I've been in the kubernetes ecosystem for a number of years for many years. When I talk to practitioners, the number one, you know what kubernetes you're using? Well, the answer for many years was, Well, I'm grabbing it, you know, the open source and I'm building my own stack. And the reason customers did that was because there wasn't necessarily maturity, and this was kind of leading edge, bleeding edge customers in this space. The number two besides build my own was Red Hat was because I'm a red hat customer, a lot of Lennox tooling the way of building things the way my application developers do. Things fit in that environment. And therefore, that's why Red Hat has over 2000 open shift customers leading distribution for Kubernetes. And you know, this seems purely directly targeted at that market. That red hat did you know it was a big reason why IBM spent $34 billion on the Red Hat acquisition is to go after this multi cloud opportunity. So you know, absolutely this shot across the bow because Red Hat is a partner of VM Ware's, but absolutely is also a competitive >>Well, Maritz told me years ago that's true. We're with everybody and you could see that playing out. What if you look at what VM Ware could do and some of their options if they gave it away, that would really be a shot across the bow at open shift, wouldn't it? >>Yeah, absolutely, Dave, because kubernetes is not free if you're enabling kubernetes on my Google environment, I, you know, just within the last week's awesome things that were like, Okay, wait. If you're testing an environment, yes, it is free. But, you know, started talking about the hourly charges for the management layer of kubernetes. So you know kubernetes again. A color friend, Cory Quinn. Communities absolutely is not free, and he will give you an earful and his thoughts on it s o in Amazon or Google. And absolutely, Dave, it's an important revenue stream for red hat. So if I'm vm ware and you know, maybe for some period of time, you make it a line item, it's part of my l. A. You know, a good thing for customers to look out for is when you're renegotiating your l a toe, understand? If you're going to use this, what is the impact? Because absolutely, you know, from a financial standpoint, you know, Pat Gelsinger on the VM Ware team has been doing a lot of acquisitions. Many of those Dave have been targeted at this space. You know, not to step Geo, but a bit NAMI. And even the pivotal acquisition all fit in this environment. So they've spent billions of dollars. It shouldn't be a net zero revenue to the top line of what VM Ware is doing in the space. >>So that would be an issue from Wall Street's perspective. But at the same time, it's again, they're playing the long game here. Do we have any pricing data at this point? >>So I still have not gotten clear data as to how they're doing pricing now. >>Okay, Um, and others that are in there and in the mix. We talked about Red Hat. Certainly Microsoft is in there with Arc. I've mentioned many times Cisco coming at this from a networking perspective. But who else do you see and then Antos with Google? >>Yeah. And you know, Dave, all the companies we're talking about here, you know, Pat Gelsinger has had to leverage his intel experience to how to balance that line between a partner with everybody but slowly competing against everybody. So, you know, we've spent many hours talking about the VM Ware Amazon relationship. Amazon does not admit the multi cloud a solution yet and does not have a management tool for supporting all of the kubernetes environment. But absolutely Microsoft and Google do. Cisco has strong partnerships with all the cloud environment and is doing that hybrid solution and Dave Justice nothingto expand on a little bit there. If you talk about V sphere, you say, Okay, Visa or seven trolling out Well, how long will it take most of the customer base to roll to this environment? There will be some that absolutely want to take advantage of kubernetes and will go there. But we know that is typically a multi year process to get most of the install base over onto this. And if you extend that out to where VM Ware is putting their solution into cloud environments, there's that tension between, you know, Is there a match actually, between what I have in my data center and what is in the managed environment managed by VM Ware and Amazon, or manage for to support some of the other cloud environment. So the positioning always is that you're going to do VM Ware everywhere, and therefore it's going to be consistent everywhere. Well, the devil's in the details because I have control on what's in my data center, and I might have a little bit less control to some of those managed services that I'm consuming. So absolutely something to keep a close eye on. And not just for VM, where everybody is having these concerns. Even if you talk about the native kubernetes distributions, most of the kubernetes services from the cloud providers are not, you know, immediately on the latest revision of kubernetes, >>right, So Okay, well, let's let's talk about that. Remember when open Stack first came out? It was a Hail Mary against Amazon. Yeah, well, the new Hail Mary and looks like it has more teeth is kubernetes right, because it allows portability and and and of course, you know Amazon doesn't publicly say this, but it's not. That's not good for Amazon. If you're reporting things, applications, moving things around, moving them out of the Amazon cloud, and that makes it easier. Of course, Amazon does support kubernetes right, But you've got >>alternatives. So, David, it's fascinating. So I've talked to many practitioners that have deployed kubernetes and one of the top reasons that they say that why they're using Kubernetes is so they have options with the cloud. When you also ask them what cloud they're running, they're running Amazon. Did they have planned to move off of it? Well, probably not. I had a great customer that I didn't interview with that one of the Cube con shows, and they actually started out with Azure just because it was a little further head with kubernetes and then for the services they wanted. They ended up moving to AWS and Dave. It's not a click a button and you move from one kubernetes to another. You need toe match up and say, Okay, here's the five or six services I'm using. What are the equivalent? What changes do I need to make? Multi cloud is not simple. Today, I mentioned Hashi Corp is one of those companies that help people across these environments. If you have haji solution and you're managing across multiple clouds, you look in the code and you understand that there's a lot of difference between those different clouds, and they simplify that. But don't eliminate it. Just it is not. There is not a way today. This is not a utility when you talk about the public cloud. So you know Kubernetes absolutely is existentially a little bit of a threat to Amazon but Amazon still going strong in that space. And you know that the majority of customers that have deployed kubernetes in the public cloud are doing it on Amazon just because of their position in the marketplace and what they're. >>So let's double click on that. So Jassy, an exclusive interview with John Furrier before last year's re invent, said, Look, we understand there's a lot of reasons why people might choose multiple clouds, you know, go through them in a developer preference. And I think I think, you know, people want o optionality and reduce lock in potentially. But I've always said, by the way, just as an aside, that that the risk of lock in it is far down on the list relative to business value, people will choose business value over over, you know, no lock in every time. About 15% of the customers you might not agree. Nonetheless, Jassy claimed that typically when you get into a multiple cloud environment, he didn't use the term multi cloud that it's it's not a 50 50. It's a premier primary cloud supplier. So might be 70 30 or 80 20 or even 90 10. But it's really that kind of, you know, imbalance. First of all, do you see that? And then what does that mean for how they approach of this space? Multi cloud and in particular. >>So I'm sorry. You're asking how Amazon should approach the space. And you've said that I don't think they'll >>eventually enter this market place. >>Yeah, you know, absolutely, Dave. You know, first of all, in general, yes, I do agree. It is not. There are certain financial companies that, you know, have always chosen two of everything. Because for regulation and you know certain we need to protect ourselves. We're gonna have to suppliers. We're going to keep them as even as possible. But that is a corner case. Most customers I have a primary cloud. That's what I'm doing. That what I t tries to get everybody on and you need to have Is there a reason why you want to use a secondary or tertiary cloud because there's a service that they need. Of course, Google. You often run it. It's like, Oh, well, there's certain data services that they're doing well And, of course, the business productivity solutions that Microsoft's doing where the relationship with Oracle that are driving people towards Microsoft. But just as we saw Amazon soften on their hybrid solutions, we spent a lot of time at re invent talking about all the various hybrid solutions. Um, since their customers are going to have multiple clouds on and even you take most of their customers that have M and a involved you buy another company, they might be using another cloud. As Microsoft's position in the marketplace has grown, you would expect that Amazon would have not just migration services but management services to match what customers need, especially in this kubernetes environment, seems that it seems a natural fit for them. It's possible they might just leverage, you know, partnerships with red hat VM ware, you know, in some of the other players for the time being. But if the market gets big enough and customers are asking for it, that's usually when Amazon response >>So let's let's wrap with what this means to the customer. And I've said that last decade really multi cloud was a symptom of multi vendor and not so much of the strategy that's changing. You know, clearly, jokes CIOs are being called in to clean up the crime scene on do you know, put in edicts corporate edicts around security and governance and compliance and so forth. So it started to become a complicated situation for a lot of companies. We've said that multi cloud is gonna it's gonna be they're going. People are going to put the right war load and the right cloud, etcetera, and this advantages to certain clouds. But what should customers be thinking specifically as it relates to v. Sphere seven? >>Yes. So, Dave, the biggest thing I would say that people need to look at it is that understanding in your organization that that boundary and line between infrastructure and application people have often looked at you looked at the ascendancy of VM Ware, Andi V. M's and then what's happening with cloud and containers. And we think of it from an infrastructure standpoint that I'm just changing the underlying pieces. This is where it lives and where I put things. But the really important thing is it's about my data and my applications, Dave. So if I'm moving an application to a new environment, how do I take advantage of it? You know, we don't just move it to a new environment and run it the same way we were doing it. I need to take advantage of those new environments. Kubernetes is involved in infrastructure, but the real piece is how I have my application, my developers, my app. Dev's working on this environment and therefore it might be that if VM Ware's the right environment, I'm doing a lot of it that the development team says, Hey, I need you to give me a pool and provisioned this for me and I can have my sandbox where I can move really fast. But VM Ware helped initially customers when they went from physical to virtual, move faster. From an infrastructure standpoint, what it needs to do to really enable this environment is help me move faster on the application side. And that's a big gap from VM. Ware's history is where the pivotal people and hefty O people and bit NAMI and all the new people are helping along to help that whole cloud native team. But that is a big shift from customers. So for this to be successful, it's not just, oh, the virtualization admin. He upgraded to the new thing. He made some changes and said, Okay, hey, I can give you a kubernetes cluster when you need it. It's really understanding what's going to happen on the application side in a lot of that is going to be very similar to what you're doing in cloud environments. And I think this is Dave often where your customers, they say, Oh, well, I did that cloud and it was too expensive and it was too hard, and I repatriated. Everything else is, well, you probably didn't plan properly and you didn't understand what you're getting yourself into. And you jumped into the deep end of the pool and oh, wait, I forgot how to learn how to swim. So you know, that is where we are. You know, Dave, you know the technology parts. Always the easiest piece. It's getting all of the organizational and political things sorted out. And you know the developer we know how important that is, we're seeing. It's great to see VM Ware pushing faster in this environment. Kudos to them for how fast they moved. Project Pacific to G. A. That is really impressive to see and can't wait to hear the customers roll out because if this is successful, we should be hearing great transformation stories from customers as to how this is enabling their business, enabling them to move faster on. You know, that has been what, one of the favorite stories that I've been telling with customers on the Cube last couple of years. >>The vast majority of VM Ware's business, of course, is on print, and essentially they're doing here is enabling developers in their customer base and the half a 1,000,000 customers to really develop in a cloud native manner. The question is, you know, from a ah, from a cultural standpoint, is that actually gonna happen? Or the developers gonna reject the organ and say, No, I want to develop in AWS or Microsoft in the cloud. I think VM Ware would say, We're trying to embrace no matter where they want to develop, but they're still going to be. That's interesting organizational tension or developer attention in terms of what their primary choices is. They're not. >>Yeah, Dave, Absolutely. We've been saying for years. That cloud is not a location. It is an operating model. So this is helping to enable that operating model more in the data center. There's still questions and concerns, of course around, you know, consumption on demand versus you know, whether whether you've bought the entire thing as more and more services become available in the public cloud, are those actually enabled to be able to be used, you know, in my data center hosted environment. So you know, this story is not completed, but we're definitely ready. I believe we're saying it's the multi clouds Chapter three of what? We've been watching >>you and you're seeing a major tam expansion yet again from VM Ware that started with the NSX. And then, of course, went in tow networking and storage. And now they've got a cloud security division. We're talking about the the cloud native capabilities here and and on and on, it goes to thanks for helping us break this VC seven announcement down and good job fixed. All right. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for stew Minimum. We'll see you next time on the Cube. >>Yeah,