>>Back cubes back on day three here in cloud city, global world Congress. This is where all the action is. And this is the cube set. I'm John. We're here with Dr., who is the CEO of telco VR, as well as the CEO of Tacoma. Great to see you again. Hey, Hey, how are you guys? Good, great time. Great boat last night. Good industry executives. A lot of intimate high player players here in the industry, even though not a lot of attendance, but the right people are here and events are back. >>Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you know, MWC was the first event to cancel with COVID in, uh, February of 20 end of February, 2020. So first big event to come back. It's such a nice symmetry. Um, yeah, typically you have big delegations, hundreds of people from the big groups coming to the show, we're seeing the executives are coming smaller delegations, but they're all in the booth and that we're having great conversations and it's awesome. >>Yeah. And the thing I will say is that the cubes back to we'd like them to be fee in here in the action. He says, one of the things that's happened with this hybrid events is that people are watching. And so there's a virtual space and the physical space and cloud city has built out paradise. It's beautiful and spectacular behind this. Look, you look around for the people who can't see, it's really made for the combination of onsite and virtual experience, the content, the people Bon Jovi last night, just, it's just the top of mobile world Congress. And it's translating to the industry. This has been amazing. So congratulations. Well, >>I think I got to say you have a lot to say as we all know. Yeah. But I think it was easy for the big guys. That's why we love you in the queue, but I think it was easy for the big guys to tap out and say, Hey, we can save a bunch more money. We don't really have much to talk about. Right. We're going to talk about again, let's talk about 5g revolution. Whereas, whereas the narrative here is all about the future and it's not about the future of blah, blah, blah. It's about the future. You know, this is the journey that we're taking and here's where it starting and with leaving the boat. >>Yeah. And I think what's really interesting about cloud city is the fact that we've brought these different players together that are all focused, as you said, on the, on the future. And I'm starting to see these connections where they're collaborating right vendors that didn't know each other probably would never have partnered before. Totally different areas. I'm hearing the conversation in the booth about like, Hey, I talked to Pete when security or I went and talked to, you know, LMX and we're putting deals together because we're complimentary and it's amazing. >>And integration partnership heard that from Google yesterday on our, our news exclusive break in there, they see integration. And they're talking about Android with Android, for mobile. They're seeing a whole new software paradigm coming into telephones it's partnership ecosystem and open. These are new kind of dynamics >>For you guys. When you say integration and open, I think those things are really paired and they're important. A lot of times telco people will hear integration, I'll think customization, right? Coding it up and customizing it so that they talk to each other. But I think the open part of that is really important where we're connecting via API APIs. And I think that's bringing in the hyperscalers, that's what they do. Right? They provide these systems and the software, it's all API base and you can use it very quickly and you can unravel it if you need to. It's feature velocity that we talked about a couple of days and automation >>Is the underpinning. I mean, that's really the theme, right? It's not like a one-off hardcore custom integration. That's gonna be, I have >>To upgrade every 18 months or whatever it is. Yeah. It's, it's alive. Yeah. >>How about Musk yesterday? I mean, he's always a crowd pleaser. First of all, my kids love him. He's crazy. >>I mean, he is amazing. >>He's he's, he's a builder. He takes no prisoners. He's just, you know what? My goal was not to go bankrupt. That's what he said a couple of years ago, which >>Was brilliant because everybody's gone bankrupt in that business. And he's just, you know, and he's just like, look it, we're here to >>Just want to chip away at it. And we're just going to keep striving, not making up excuses. He takes the failures, he takes the face plant. He gets back up and he keeps going. He's focused on buildings, >>Some one thing, right? He's not focused on everything. He's focused on getting to Mars. And I think that's what I like to compare myself to Elon Musk, right? Not that I'm building rockets or getting to Mars, but that the hard problem that I'm solving is getting telco to the public cloud. And that's going to take a decade. It might've been accelerated because of COVID, it might've taken 20 years and now it might take 10, but you look at what he does and that guy, he has, he has haters on Twitter there. Pew, pew always like throwing their bars, but he's like, I got, I got my rocket company. I got my, you know, communication and space company. We're going to need the bore holes, the boring company. I need batteries. I got my Tesla company. And so this guy focuses. He's got >>Some haters, but he's got a lot more lovers on his other side because people might not know this, but he fires entire PR department because he's like, I don't need PR. I'm just going to go do my own, his own PR actually the crypto, stuff's always fun. Goats, coins, >>Always a laugh. >>And it's just more of like playing watch this. >>I said, I live was interesting thing he did, but I think he illustrates the point of a new generation. And I think my young kids, not young, they're in their twenties. Now they look at him and they say, that's aspirational because he's building and he's not, he's focused on that one thing. And again, the growth that you mentioned telco to the cloud, thinking back to that, I want to ask you this growth question. It used to be like, okay, growth was there, people expand itself? Howard's networks were networks. Now it seems like the growth of telco for telco is going into what's the edge and all the open ranch stuff, which means that we need more infrastructure. Yeah. We need more stuff. There's more and more needed and there's grow. Find them. >>What's your, what's your, I think we need more software. Right. Software eats the world. Right. And it's, I mean, there was a lot of hardware to Trump in telco and it's just gonna keep eating it. Um, and that's just gonna accelerate. I think that's where tacos needs to start to build that muscle. They don't have great software capability. They don't have public cloud building capability. And so that's a big upskilling. That's a new hiring. And I think it's a, it's an executive conversation. It's not just an it thing or just a marketing thing. I got to chime >>In here for a second because there are a lot of parallels with how the data center transition has occurred. And what's happening here. We talk about all the time. It was a mainframe, et cetera. There are parallels. Yeah. And what happened when the data center went to software defined a whole bunch of hardware was allocated to run all the software defined stuff. It wasn't built for that. But the cloud, what you guys are doing with Togi and taken advantage of AWS is nitro and graviton. That's built to two V software defined. Correct. And so the telcos are going to go through the same thing. If they just virtualized, they're going to say, oh wow, we're wasting 30% of our power, our compute power on just supporting all this software defined stuff, because it wasn't built for that. But the cloud is built for that. And that is going to be a huge >>Difference. And I keep trying to make this distinction. And I think people in telcos still don't get this about the public cloud. They think of it as a place. It's a place to run a workload. And that tells me, they think of it as infrastructure. I think of it as servers still like, well, I'm going to run it in my closet. Or AWS has closet. I'm like, I was just having a conversation about this with a senior person from DSMA. I'm like, it's actually about the software. That's there. It's about the databases they're building and the analytics and the AI and ML that they let you buy by the minutes by the API call. And that is my, like, you need to think about that. Cause it's mindblowing, it's a totally different way. And you're >>Totally right. And just spend it again, give you props on this. I've had many one on with Andy gesture the past seven years, not for exclusives, but over the years it's been consistent. Each platform lifting and shift. Wasn't the end game. Okay. Replatforming in the cloud. Certainly a great advantage, a great starting point. It was the refactoring. And that's why you see Amazon web services. For instance, keep adding more services because that's the model. They keep offering more goodness so that the businesses could refactor, not just replatform. Yeah. And that's what you're getting. I think with the AI and machine learning where you start getting into these new use cases, but why couldn't do that before? Right? Right. This is going to be a huge >>Game changer. Forest Brazil, right? A great guy. A cloud guru wrote a great blog called a lift and shift is a ticking time bomb. And it's a great start to get your stuff over there. It forces your team to start to interact with like an AWS or GCP in a real way. Like now they, they gotta use it. You take it away. And I'm like, but once you move it, you got to read factor. You got to rewrite. And then that's why it's a ticking time bomb. You got to get, move it over and get you're going >>To rush him. Dr. Digital revolution of you are one. You got it here, tells the VR. And this has been a great experience for the cube. As we get back to business with real life events and virtual, the folks who couldn't make it here, Barcelona is still a great city, obviously a great place to come and events. We'll be back. There'll be hybrid. There'll be different. Certainly the queue we'll wait doubling down, but, but we've got a great video. I want to share with the group, the Barcelona and cloud city. This is a montage of what it's like here and a little experiential video. So they get away and run that video. >>Hi, I'm Katie Goldfinch here in Barcelona for an action packed day two at telco DER's cloud setting this morning, the focus was firmly on Dr. And her MWC keynote, which told telco exactly in no uncertain terms that now is the time to act on embracing public clouds back in cloud city content ruled the day with both the cube and cloud city life stages, hosting public cloud, thought-leaders covering a wide range of topics to educate and inspire attendees and in the beautiful space of cloud city, the excitement grew throughout the day. As we streamed MW cities, exclusive keynotes from Elon Musk and preparations got underway for tonight. Star performer, Jon Bon Jovi. Wow. What an amazing day from groundbreaking keynotes into space and back to a star studded performance. Don't forget. You can catch up on anything you missed and join us for the rest of the week@cloudcitydottelcor.com or following hashtag cloud Ceci. >>Yeah, that was a great look at what's going on here in cloud city. This next video, Dr. You're going to love this. Your keynote highlights and some Bon Jovi highlights, which by the way, was the most epic thing people were packed. It was excited. It was packed. It had the security flicking, peoples counting. All the people, people are standing back. All the people from their booths are all coming in to watch. He was pumped. Let's take a look at this awesome highlight video from yesterday isolation. >>Dave, that was a highlight reel yesterday. Um, VR has got some action on stage, great messaging, um, revolution, digital revolution. >>You know your comment about how you think like Elon Musk, that's an inspiration from it. I mean, what a lot of people don't know is when you look at autonomous vehicles, remember you're driving down Palo Alto, you see one of those LIDAR things he's doing away with lidars too expensive. It's $7,000. He's taken it with cheap cameras and software down to a couple hundred bucks per vehicle. That's the way he thinks. And you're doing the same thing to telco. >>I am, I am. I'm trying to change ELCA, right? I mean, he's changing the world. He might be one of the most important humans on earth right now. I don't think I'm exactly that level, but I'm trying to become a really important person to taco. We had this great message. I think it's going to help tacos get better businesses. And I think it's a great idea. >>The folks out there watching, what is that big change you're going to drive down this cloud city street, main street of cloud city and just all about cloud. Because public clouds here, it's going to become hybrid dynamics, operating models, and changing. What is the key message that you'd like to send me? >>I think all of the software in telco needs to be written. And that's how many millions of lines of code is that. And it's going to shrunk down and put out on the public cloud and rewritten using the software Legos of the public cloud. That is a big undertaking. No, one's working on it. I'm working on it. I'm doing it. >>Let's go do it. Let's do it. If you look out a couple of years, what would be a successful? What does checkmate look like in this >>I'm winning hashtag. I mean, I think it takes, again, it takes singular focus like Elon Musk on Mars. So when these to singularly focused on getting to the public cloud and you can't sit there and protect your old business models, your, you know, uh, CR revenue, if you're Amdocs, right? Give that up. When they start to give up their CR revenue to focus on public cloud, then they'll be okay. There's there's a worthy adversary out there really. >>I mean the late clay Christianson had all the same things. Innovator's dilemma. You just get stuck here. What do you do? You kill your own debris. You eat your own to bring in the new, I mean, all these things are going on and this is, this is a huge test. >>Have to be willing to burn some boats. >>I think it's transparency, simplicity, and the consumer saying, Hey, this is a great experience. That's the thing. Yeah. Right. And that's what we're going to see. Consumers >>Love their telco. I can't wait for that. I want to love my Netflix. Yes, exactly. >>We'd love you because you've got a bold vision. You putting it out there and you're driving it. You're walking the talk. Congratulations. And again, cloud cities, a home run. Great success. Thanks for >>Having me. It's always super fun. >>Okay. Cubes coverage here. And remember we're here getting all the action and it's all going to go online after the synchronous consumption. But right now it's all about mobile world Congress and cloud city. This is the action. And of course, Adam in cloud city studio was waiting for us and you're going to take it from here.

>>Live from Miami, Florida. It's the cube covering IBM's data and AI forum brought to you by IBM. >>We're back in Miami. You're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage, and we're covering the IBM data and AI forum in the port of Miami. Mateus Fuka is here, he's the director of offering management for hybrid data management. Everything data. But see, it's great to see you. It's great to have you. So be here with you. We're going to talk database, we're gonna talk data warehouse, everything. Data, you know, did the database market, you know, 10 years ago, 12 years, it was kind of boring. Right. And now it's like data's everywhere. Database is exploding. What's your point of view on what's going on in the marketplace? You know, I mean it's funny too. You used to it boring because I think it's the boring stuff that really matters nowadays to get, get things to where you get people to value with the solutions you want to be or the modernization. >>Thea. Yeah. Seeking to do on the data estates. Um, the challenge that you have in embracing multi-cloud data architectures. So to get, to get to, well you have to, do, I have to take care of the boring stuff. How real is multi-cloud? I mean, I know multi-cloud is, is real and that everybody has multiple clouds. But is multi-cloud a strategy or is it a sort of a symptom of multi-vendor and it just, we could have ended up here with the shadow it and everything else. >> I think it's a reality and yes, it should be a strategy, but I think more more clients and not they find themselves being exposed to this as a reality with different lines of businesses, acquiring data, um, estates running on different locations, different clouds, you know, and then companies have challenge if you want to bring it all together and actually the value of that data, um, and make it available for analytics or AI solutions. >>You know, you've got to have a strategy. >> So IBM is one of the few companies that has both a cloud and an aggressive multi-cloud strategy. Um, you know, Amazon's got outpost a little bit here and Microsoft I guess has some stuff, uh, a but, but generally speaking, uh, Oracle has got a little bit here but IBM has both a cloud. So you'd love people to come into your cloud, but you recognize not everybody's gonna come in your club. So you have an aggressive multi-cloud strategy. Why is that? What's the underpinning of that strategy? Is it openness? Is it just market, you know, total available market? Why? So first of all, yes, we have a, we have a strong portfolio on IBM cloud and we think, you know, it's the best in terms of, you know, integration with other cloud services, the performance you get on the different data services. >>But we also have a strategy that says we want to be our clients want to go. And many clients might have committed already on a strategic level to a different cloud, whether that's AWS, you know, why IBM cloud or Asia. And so we want to be ready as clients want to go. And our commitment is to offer them a complete portfolio of data services that support different workloads. And a complete portfolio in terms of, um, your, the IBM, uh, hope heavy set of technologies as well as open source technologies, give clients choice but then make them available across that universe of multicloud hybrid cloud on premise in a way that they get a consistent experience. And you know, I mean you are familiar with the term. Oh, you divide and conquer, right? I like to talk about it as uh, you know, um, unify to conquer. >>So our, our mission is really unified experience and unified the access to different capabilities available across multicloud architects. So is that really the brand promise gotta unify across clouds? Absolutely. That's our mission. And what's the experience like today and what is sort of the optimal outcome that you guys are looking for? Uh, being able to run any database on any cloud anywhere. Describe that. >> So I think, um, you'd be talking about chapter one and two off the cloud, right? When it, when it comes to chapter one in my, in my view, chapter one was very much about attracting people to the cloud by offering them a set of managed services that take away the management headaches and you know, the, the infrastructure, uh, management aspects. Um, but when you think about chapter two, when you think about how to run, uh, mission critical workloads on, on a cloud or on premise, um, you know, you want to have the ability to integrate data States that run in different environments and we think that OpenShift is leveling the playing field by avoiding location, by, by giving clients the ability to basically abstract from PI, Teri cloud infrastructure services and mechanisms. >>And that gives them freedom of action. They can, they can deploy a certain workload in one in one place and then decide six months later that they are better off moving that workload somewhere else. Yes. >> So OpenShift is the linchpin, absolutely. That cross-cloud integration, is that right? Correct. And with the advent of the rise of the operator, I think you see, you know, you see, um, the industry closing the gap between the value proposition of a fully managed service and what a client managed open shift based environment can deliver in terms of automation, simplicity and annual Oh value. Let's talk about the database market and you're trying to, what's happening? You've got, you know, transactional database, you've got analytic database, you've got legacy data warehouses, you've got new, emerging, emerging, you know, databases that are handling unstructured data. You got to know sequel, not only sequel lay out the landscape and where, what's IBM strategy in the database space? >>So our strategy has, has, so starting with the DB to family, right? We have introduced about two one, two years ago we introduced somebody called Tacoma sequel engine. That gives you a consistent, um, experience in from an application and user perspective in the way you consume, um, data for different workload types. Whether that's transactional data, um, analytical use cases, speak data overdue or fast data solution events, different data architectures, everything, you know, with a consistent experience from a management perspective, from a, from a working behavior perspective in the way you interact with, with this as an application. And, and not only that, but also then make that available on premises in the cloud, fully managed or now open shift based on any cloud. Right. So our, our, I would say our commitment right now is very much focusing on leveraging OpenShift, leveraging cloud pick for data as a platform to deliver all these capabilities DB to an open source in a unified and consistent. >>Uh, I would say with a unified and consistent experience on anybody's cloud, it's like what's in any bag was first, you know, like six months ago when we announced it. And I think now for us doing the same with data and making that data, make it easy for people to access state our way every to the sides is really, but Ts, what's IBM's point of view on, on the degree of integration that you have to have in that stack from hardware and software. So people, some people would argue, well you have to have the same control plane, same data plane, same hardware, same software, same database on prem as you have in the cloud. What's your thoughts on that degree of homogeneity that's required to succeed? So I think it's certainly something that, uh, companies strive to get to simplify the data architectures, unify, consolidate, reduced the number of data sources that you have to deal with. >>But the reality is that the average enterprise client has 168 different data services they have to incorporate, right? So to me it's a moving target and while you want to consolidate, you will never fully get there. So I think our approach is we want to give to client choice best different choice in terms of technologies for for the same workload type. Potentially, whether it's a post test for four transactional workloads for TB, two for transactional workloads, whatever fits the bill, right? And then at the same time, um, at the same time abstract or unify on top of that by, by when you think about operators and OpenShift, for instance, we invest in a, in um, in operators leveraging a consistent framework that basically provides, you know, homogeneous set of interfaces by which people could deploy and life cycle manager Postgres instance or DB two instance. >>So you need only one skillset to manage all these different data services and you know, it reduces total cost of ownership is it provides more agility and, and you know, you know, accelerates time to value for this client. So you're saying that IBM strategy recognizes the heterogeneity within the client base, right? Um, you're not taking, even though you might have a box somewhere in the portfolio, but you're not a, you need this box only strategy. The God box. This is, this is the hammer and every opportunity is a nail. Yeah, we have way beyond that. So we, we are much more open in the way we embrace open source and we bring open source technologies to our enterprise clients and we invest in integration of these different technologies so they can, the value of those can be actuated much more in a much more straightforward fashion. >>The thing about cloud pay for data and the ability to access data insights in different open Sozo, different depositories, IBM, one third party, but then make that data accessible through data virtualization or full governance, applying governance to the data so that data scientists can actually get reef that data for, for his work. That is really important. Can you argue that that's less lock-in than say like they say the God box approach or the cloud only approach? Yeah, absolutely. Because how so? How so? Because, well, because we give you choice to begin with, right? And it's not only choice in terms of the data services and the different technologies that are available, but also in terms of the location where you deploy these data services and how you run them. Okay. So to me it's all about exit strategies. If I go down a path and a path doesn't work for me, how do I get out? >>Exactly. Um, is that a concern of customers in terms of risk management? Yeah. I think, look, every, every costume out there, I daresay, you know, has a data strategy and every customer needs to make some decisions. But you know, there's only so much information you have today to make that decision. But as you learn more, your decision might change six months down the road. And you know, how to preserve that agility as a business to do course corrections I think is really important. So, okay, a hypothetical that this happens every day. You've got a big portfolio companies, they've done a lot of M and a, they've got, you know, 10 different databases that they're running. They got different clouds that they're using, they've got different development teams using, using different tooling, certainly different physical infrastructure. And they really haven't had a strategy to bring it all together. >>Uh, you're hired as the, uh, the data architect or the CTO of the company and say, but Tia's, the CEO says, fix this problem. You're not, we're not taking advantage, uh, and leveraging our data. Where do you start? So of course, being IBM, I would recommend to start with clapping for data as the number one data platform out there because eventually every component will want to capitalize on the value that the data represents. It's not just about a data layer is not just about a database, it's about an indicated solutions tech that gets people to do analytics over the data, the life insights from the data. That's number one. But even if you are, you know, if, if, if it's not I the IBM stack, right, I would always recommend to the client to think about a strategy that that allows for the flexibility change to change course wide and move workloads from one location to another or move data from one technology stack to another. >>And I think that that kind of, you know, that agility and flexibility and, um, translate into, um, risk mitigation strategies that every client should think about. So cloud pack for data, it's okay, let's start there. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna install that, or I'm gonna access that in, into the cloud. And then what do I have to do as a customer to take advantage of that? Do I just have to point it at my data stores? What are the prerequisites? Yeah. So let's say you deploy that on IBM cloud, right? Then you have, you usually are invested already. So you have data, large data estates either residing on share is already in the cloud. You can pull those, those, those datasets in remotely without really moving the workload of the data sets into a cloud pixel, data managed environment by using technologies like data virtualization, right? >>Or using technologies like data stage and ETL capabilities, um, to access the data. But you can also, as you modernize and you build your next next generation application, you can do that within that managed environment with OpenShift. And, and that's what most people want to do. They want to do a digital transformation. They want to modernize the workloads, but we want to leverage the existing investments that they have been making over the last decade. Okay. So, but there's a discovery phase, right, where you bring in cloud pack for data to say, okay, what do I have? Yup, go find it. And then it's bringing in necessary tooling on the, on the diff with the development side with things like OpenShift and then, and then what it's magically virtualizes my data is that, so just on that point, I think you know, the, what made us much more going forward for his clients is how they can incorporate different datasets with adding insure in open source technologies or, or DB two on a third party vendor said, I don't want to mention right now, but, but what matters more is, so how do I make data accessible? >>How do I discover the data set in a way that I can automatically generate metadata? So I have a business glossary, I have metadata and I understand various data sets. Lyft, that's their vision objective business technology objectives. To be able to do that and to what's watching knowledge catalog, which is part of topic for data is a core component that helps you with dead auto discover the metadata generation basically generating, okay, adding data sets in a way that they are now visible to the data scientists and the ultimate end user. What really matters and I think what is our vision overall is the ability to service the ultimate end user medicine developer, a data scientist, so business analysts so that they can get a chip done without depending on it. Yeah, so that metadata catalog is part of the secret sauce that'll that that allows the system to know what data lives, where, how to get to it and and how to join it. >>Since one of the core elements of that, of that integrated platform and solution state board. What I think is really key here is the effort we spend in integrating these different components so that it is, it is, it looks seamlessly, it is happening in an automated fashion that as much as possible and it delivers on that promise of a self service experience for that person that sits at the very end of that. Oh, if that chain right, but to your sex so much for explaining that QA for coming on the cube. Great to meet you. All right. Keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the cube from the IBM data and AI forum in Miami. We'll be right back.