>>Keon Cloud Native Con kicks off in Detroit on October 24th, and we're pleased to have Stewart Miniman, who's the director of Market Insights, hi, at, for hybrid platforms at Red Hat back in the studio to help us understand the key trends to look for at the events. Do welcome back, like old, old, old >>Home. Thank you, David. It's great to, great to see you and always love doing these previews, even though Dave, come on. How many years have I told you Cloud native con, It's a hoodie crowd. They're gonna totally call you out for where in a tie and things like that. I, I know you want to be an ESPN sportscaster, but you know, I I, I, I still don't think even after, you know, this show's been around for so many years that there's gonna be too many ties into Troy. I >>Know I left the hoodie in my off, I'm sorry folks, but hey, we'll just have to go for it. Okay. Containers generally, and Kubernetes specifically continue to show very strong spending momentum in the ETR survey data. So let's bring up this slide that shows the ETR sectors, all the sectors in the tax taxonomy with net score or spending velocity in the vertical axis and pervasiveness on the horizontal axis. Now, that red dotted line that you see, that marks the elevated 40% mark, anything above that is considered highly elevated in terms of momentum. Now, for years, the big four areas of momentum that shine above all the rest have been cloud containers, rpa, and ML slash ai for the first time in 10 quarters, ML and AI and RPA have dropped below the 40% line, leaving only cloud and containers in rarefied air. Now, Stu, I'm sure this data doesn't surprise you, but what do you make of this? >>Yeah, well, well, Dave, I, I did an interview with at Deepak who owns all the container and open source activity at Amazon earlier this year, and his comment was, the default deployment mechanism in Amazon is containers. So when I look at your data and I see containers and cloud going in sync, yeah, that, that's, that's how we see things. We're helping lots of customers in their overall adoption. And this cloud native ecosystem is still, you know, we're still in that Cambridge explosion of new projects, new opportunities, AI's a great workload for these type type of technologies. So it's really becoming pervasive in the marketplace. >>And, and I feel like the cloud and containers go hand in hand, so it's not surprising to see those two above >>The 40%. You know, there, there's nothing to say that, Look, can I run my containers in my data center and not do the public cloud? Sure. But in the public cloud, the default is the container. And one of the hot discussions we've been having in this ecosystem for a number of years is edge computing. And of course, you know, I want something that that's small and lightweight and can do things really fast. A lot of times it's an AI workload out there, and containers is a great fit at the edge too. So wherever it goes, containers is a good fit, which has been keeping my group at Red Hat pretty busy. >>So let's talk about some of those high level stats that we put together and preview for the event. So it's really around the adoption of open source software and Kubernetes. Here's, you know, a few fun facts. So according to the state of enterprise open source report, which was published by Red Hat, although it was based on a blind survey, nobody knew that that Red Hat was, you know, initiating it. 80% of IT execs expect to increase their use of enterprise open source software. Now, the CNCF community has currently more than 120,000 developers. That's insane when you think about that developer resource. 73% of organizations in the most recent CNCF annual survey are using Kubernetes. Now, despite the momentum, according to that same Red Hat survey, adoption barriers remain for some organizations. Stu, I'd love you to talk about this specifically around skill sets, and then we've highlighted some of the other trends that we expect to see at the event around Stu. I'd love to, again, your, get your thoughts on the preview. You've done a number of these events, automation, security, governance, governance at scale, edge deployments, which you just mentioned among others. Now Kubernetes is eight years old, and I always hear people talking about there's something coming beyond Kubernetes, but it looks like we're just getting started. Yeah, >>Dave, It, it is still relatively early days. The CMC F survey, I think said, you know, 96% of companies when they, when CMC F surveyed them last year, were either deploying Kubernetes or had plans to deploy it. But when I talked to enterprises, nobody has said like, Hey, we've got every group on board and all of our applications are on. It is a multi-year journey for most companies and plenty of them. If you, you look at the general adoption of technology, we're still working through kind of that early majority. We, you know, passed the, the chasm a couple of years ago. But to a point, you and I we're talking about this ecosystem, there are plenty of people in this ecosystem that could care less about containers and Kubernetes. Lots of conversations at this show won't even talk about Kubernetes. You've got, you know, big security group that's in there. >>You've got, you know, certain workloads like we talked about, you know, AI and ml and that are in there. And automation absolutely is playing a, a good role in what's going on here. So in some ways, Kubernetes kind of takes a, a backseat because it is table stakes at this point. So lots of people involved in it, lots of activities still going on. I mean, we're still at a cadence of three times a year now. We slowed it down from four times a year as an industry, but there's, there's still lots of innovation happening, lots of adoption, and oh my gosh, Dave, I mean, there's just no shortage of new projects and new people getting involved. And what's phenomenal about it is there's, you know, end user practitioners that aren't just contributing. But many of the projects were spawned out of work by the likes of Intuit and Spotify and, and many others that created some of the projects that sit alongside or above the, the, you know, the container orchestration itself. >>So before we talked about some of that, it's, it's kind of interesting. It's like Kubernetes is the big dog, right? And it's, it's kind of maturing after, you know, eight years, but it's still important. I wanna share another data point that underscores the traction that containers generally are getting in Kubernetes specifically have, So this is data from the latest ETR survey and shows the spending breakdown for Kubernetes in the ETR data set for it's cut for respondents with 50 or more citations in, in by the IT practitioners that lime green is new adoptions, the forest green is spending 6% or more relative to last year. The gray is flat spending year on year, and those little pink bars, that's 6% or down spending, and the bright red is retirements. So they're leaving the platform. And the blue dots are net score, which is derived by subtracting the reds from the greens. And the yellow dots are pervasiveness in the survey relative to the sector. So the big takeaway here is that there is virtually no red, essentially zero churn across all sectors, large companies, public companies, private firms, telcos, finance, insurance, et cetera. So again, sometimes I hear this things beyond Kubernetes, you've mentioned several, but it feels like Kubernetes is still a driving force, but a lot of other projects around Kubernetes, which we're gonna hear about at the show. >>Yeah. So, so, so Dave, right? First of all, there was for a number of years, like, oh wait, you know, don't waste your time on, on containers because serverless is gonna rule the world. Well, serverless is now a little bit of a broader term. Can I do a serverless viewpoint for my developers that they don't need to think about the infrastructure but still have containers underneath it? Absolutely. So our friends at Amazon have a solution called Fargate, their proprietary offering to kind of hide that piece of it. And in the open source world, there's a project called Can Native, I think it's the second or third can Native Con's gonna happen at the cncf. And even if you use this, I can still call things over on Lambda and use some of those functions. So we know Dave, it is additive and nothing ever dominates the entire world and nothing ever dies. >>So we have, we have a long runway of activities still to go on in containers and Kubernetes. We're always looking for what that next thing is. And what's great about this ecosystem is most of it tends to be additive and plug into the pieces there, there's certain tools that, you know, span beyond what can happen in the container world and aren't limited to it. And there's others that are specific for it. And to talk about the industries, Dave, you know, I love, we we have, we have a community event that we run that's gonna happen at Cubans called OpenShift Commons. And when you look at like, who's speaking there? Oh, we've got, you know, for Lockheed Martin, University of Michigan and I g Bank all speaking there. So you look and it's like, okay, cool, I've got automotive, I've got, you know, public sector, I've got, you know, university education and I've got finance. So all of you know, there is not an industry that is not touched by this. And the general wave of software adoption is the reason why, you know, not just adoption, but the creation of new software is one of the differentiators for companies. And that is what, that's the reason why I do containers, isn't because it's some cool technology and Kubernetes is great to put on my resume, but that it can actually accelerate my developers and help me create technology that makes me respond to my business and my ultimate end users. Well, >>And you know, as you know, we've been talking about the Supercloud a lot and the Kubernetes is clearly enabler to, to Supercloud, but I wanted to go back, you and John Furrier have done so many of, you know, the, the cube cons, but but go back to Docker con before Kubernetes was even a thing. And so you sort of saw this, you know, grow. I think there's what, how many projects are in CNCF now? I mean, hundreds. Hundreds, okay. And so you're, Will we hear things in Detroit, things like, you know, new projects like, you know, Argo and capabilities around SI store and things like that? Well, you're gonna hear a lot about that. Or is it just too much to cover? >>So I, I mean the, the good news, Dave, is that the CNCF really is, is a good steward for this community and new things got in get in. So there's so much going on with the existing projects that some of the new ones sometimes have a little bit of a harder time making a little bit of buzz. One of the more interesting ones is a project that's been around for a while that I think back to the first couple of Cube Cuban that John and I did service Mesh and Istio, which was created by Google, but lived under basically a, I guess you would say a Google dominated governance for a number of years is now finally under the CNCF Foundation. So I talked to a number of companies over the years and definitely many of the contributors over the years that didn't love that it was a Google Run thing, and now it is finally part. >>So just like Kubernetes is, we have SEO and also can Native that I mentioned before also came outta Google and those are all in the cncf. So will there be new projects? Yes. The CNCF is sometimes they, they do matchmaking. So in some of the observability space, there were a couple of projects that they said, Hey, maybe you can go merge down the road. And they ended up doing that. So there's still you, you look at all these projects and if I was an end user saying, Oh my God, there is so much change and so many projects, you know, I can't spend the time in the effort to learn about all of these. And that's one of the challenges and something obviously at Red Hat, we spend a lot of time figuring out, you know, not to make winners, but which are the things that customers need, Where can we help make them run in production for our, our customers and, and help bring some stability and a little bit of security for the overall ecosystem. >>Well, speaking of security, security and, and skill sets, we've talked about those two things and they sort of go hand in hand when I go to security events. I mean, we're at reinforced last summer, we were just recently at the CrowdStrike event. A lot of the discussion is sort of best practice because it's so complicated. And, and, and will you, I presume you're gonna hear a lot of that here because security securing containers now, you know, the whole shift left thing and shield right is, is a complicated matter, especially when you saw with the earlier data from the Red Hat survey, the the gaps are around skill sets. People don't have the skill. So should we expect to hear a lot about that, A lot of sort of how to, how to take advantage of some of these new capabilities? >>Yeah, Dave, absolutely. So, you know, one of the conversations going on in the community right now is, you know, has DevOps maybe played out as we expect to see it? There's a newer term called platform engineering, and how much do I need to do there? Something that I, I know your, your team's written a lot about Dave, is how much do you need to know versus what can you shift to just a platform or a service that I can consume? I've talked a number of times with you since I've been at Red Hat about the cloud services that we offer. So you want to use our offering in the public cloud. Our first recommendation is, hey, we've got cloud services, how much Kubernetes do you really want to learn versus you want to do what you can build on top of it, modernize the pieces and have less running the plumbing and electric and more, you know, taking advantage of the, the technologies there. So that's a big thing we've seen, you know, we've got a big SRE team that can manage that for use so that you have to spend less time worrying about what really is un differentiated heavy lifting and spend more time on what's important to your business and your >>Customers. So, and that's, and that's through a managed service. >>Yeah, absolutely. >>That whole space is just taken off. All right, Stu I'll give you the final word. You know, what are you excited about for, for, for this upcoming event and Detroit? Interesting choice of venue? Yeah, >>Look, first of off, easy flight. I've, I've never been to Detroit, so I'm, I'm willing to give it a shot and hopefully, you know, that awesome airport. There's some, some, some good things there to learn. The show itself is really a choose your own adventure because there's so much going on. The main show of QAN and cloud Native Con is Wednesday through Friday, but a lot of a really interesting stuff happens on Monday and Tuesday. So we talked about things like OpenShift Commons in the security space. There's cloud Native Security Day, which is actually two days and a SIG store event. There, there's a get up show, there's, you know, k native day. There's so many things that if you want to go deep on a topic, you can go spend like a workshop in some of those you can get hands on to. And then at the show itself, there's so much, and again, you can learn from your peers. >>So it was good to see we had, during the pandemic, it tilted a little bit more vendor heavy because I think most practitioners were pretty busy focused on what they could work on and less, okay, hey, I'm gonna put together a presentation and maybe I'm restricted at going to a show. Yeah, not, we definitely saw that last year when I went to LA I was disappointed how few customer sessions there were. It, it's back when I go look through the schedule now there's way more end users sharing their stories and it, it's phenomenal to see that. And the hallway track, Dave, I didn't go to Valencia, but I hear it was really hopping felt way more like it was pre pandemic. And while there's a few people that probably won't come because Detroit, we think there's, what we've heard and what I've heard from the CNCF team is they are expecting a sizable group up there. I know a lot of the hotels right near the, where it's being held are all sold out. So it should be, should be a lot of fun. Good thing I'm speaking on an edge panel. First time I get to be a speaker at the show, Dave, it's kind of interesting to be a little bit of a different role at the show. >>So yeah, Detroit's super convenient, as I said. Awesome. Airports too. Good luck at the show. So it's a full week. The cube will be there for three days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Thanks for coming. >>Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, sorry, >>Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is the cube, right? So thank you for that. >>And, and no ties from the host, >>No ties, only hoodies. All right Stu, thanks. Appreciate you coming in. Awesome. And thank you for watching this preview of CubeCon plus cloud Native Con with at Stu, which again starts the 24th of October, three days of broadcasting. Go to the cube.net and you can see all the action. We'll see you there.

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois. It's the Cube, covering Veeamon 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody, this is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm joined by my co-host Stewart Miniman, Ratmir Timashev is here, he's the cofounder of Veeam and in my opinion, the man who brought Veeam into the modern era, created the persona of Veeam, allowed it to punch above its way, Ratmir thanks for coming back in the Cube, great to see you again. >> Thank you Dave, thanks. >> So congratulations on another kickoff to another great event, you painted Chicago green. Love it, first of all how do you feel. >> Fantastic, awesome. It's great being here, great city, the weather is finally nice, so spring is here finally, so we are great time. >> Yeah we had a little trouble getting in, but everybody's here, everybody's here safely which is the most important thing. I want you to talk about the evolution of Veeam, you started out as a virtualization specialist, generally VMware specialists, especially focusing on small business. We used to see you everywhere, now you're extending into the enterprise. What's that all about, what's the vision, give us your perspective. >> You're absolutely right, Veeam started with the single focus to be the best for VMware, for VMware, data protection, cap replication, and we started as the easy to use, simple, powerful solution for SMB, moved into mid-enterprise and now we added lots of enterprise features, and moving into the large enterprise. And last year was really the most important and most successful year, 2017, in the history of Veeam, so we finally admitted that we'd be lying to our customers for 10 years. >> Dave: You've been lying? >> Yeah, we've been lying. >> What do you mean by that. >> For 10 years we've been saying, Veeam is VMware only, Veeam is high B only, we will never do physical. So last year we introduced the comprehensive M2M platform to do everything, virtual, physical, and cloud. So we integrated our agent-based technology into our flagship product, to provide a single panel blast to manage all your data across the cloud, M2M. >> Why lie for a decade? >> That's a good question. You know, when you deal with sales people, smart sales people, they constantly ask you, hey, when I will do that, I will go and do physical, I was going to do physical. You have to tell them no, never, because once you say yeah, we will do physical, the next question is when. >> Dave: Yeah, when can I sell it, right. >> So we don't want to give our sales people an excuse to lose a deal because we've got the best virtual, go and sell the best virtual, and make our customers happy. >> You don't want to head fake the customers either. >> Maybe explain, what were the core principles back from the early days that are still holding true, what is the same and what's different now that you're doing cloud and virtual. >> Again, the core principle. >> Stu: Or physical, I should say. >> For principle, again, in terms of the product design, think customer first, make it easy for the customer and really stick to your core customer, that customer that is using your product every day. So make it easy, powerful, and affordable. That was our core principles in designing the product, and the whole business model behind Veeam. >> Talk about the metrics a little bit. Stu and I were talking at the open, 820 some odd million in booking, so you can see a billion dollars. We said, software companies that are a billion dollars are few and far between so that's a huge milestone if and when you hit that. But talk about that and the growth, share with us whatever metrics you can. >> Again, 2017 was one of the most successful years in our history, yeah, like you mention, we recorded bookings revenue of 830 million and that was 36% growth. Actually, our growth is accelerating as we become bigger. So we just celebrated 300,000 customers, we are adding 4,000 new customers every day, and Peter Mackay, our president and co COO mentioned this morning at the keynote, that we're adding 133 customers every single day, so that's very impressive. >> Yeah, it's awesome. So yeah, just to give you a sense, 300,000 customers, VMware, who basically owns the enterprise, says slightly over half a million customers. >> So we probably are on 50% of VMware, so we own 50% of VMware market in terms of data protection. >> So one of the challenges that we mentioned upfront was okay, so you drove a truck through the opportunity when virtualization VMware came in, and a lot of the incumbents were caught flat footed. They didn't have the architecture, they didn't have the go to market, et. Cetera. Now things are changing, moving to cloud, moving to this digital world, how does Veeam retain its edge in that new world. >> That's an excellent question, so that's the big opportunities that we see for the next five years. So we won the first battle, the battle of on pram, highly virtualized modern data center. We are the leader, we are number one data protection and ideal ability for that market, right. So the next battle, the next opportunity that we see for the next five years is to dominate the, what we call intelligent data management market in the multi cloud world. So we have to think how we approach that, once you win the market, like there is a saying, the winner takes it all. Once you win the market, you are going to dominate that, so for us the next two or three years are the most critical in dominating this multi cloud world for the next decade. >> Ratmir, I'd love to hear, you wrote that virtualization wave, which really was about creating virtualization admin, huge shift going from silos to admins. And we're seeing that change from architects in the cloud and the like, talk to, who you're selling to, and the partners that you have to grow. There's just so much change happening in that kind of environment. >> Yeah we see the change as we are moving from VMware administrator, so originally the product was designed for VMware administrator, now we are moving to the infrastructure person that is responsible not just for private part of your infrastructure, but for the multi cloud strategy, which includes the public cloud, SAS, physical servers, everything than an enterprise has as far as the infrastructure. >> Okay, so I want to go through just a couple of things that we talked about earlier and get your reaction to this. So some of the things that we've seen in our research is that data protection and orchestration are becoming much much more important in the list of CXO concerns. And that's something that your messaging is going after. But there's a dissonance between the business expects out of data protection and what IT is actually delivering, and I wonder if you can comment on that. >> Sure, so yeah, we are introducing our new message. So our previous message was focused on VMware administrator, now we are moving into the enterprise, and our message is about the importance of data. We see the three characteristics of the modern data, hyper critical, hyper sprawled, and hyper growth. So this leads to the need of creating a new type of solution what we call is intelligent data management solution. To manage the hyper available enterprise. So we're using the word hyper a lot because the data is now hyper critical, it's over distributed, hyper distributed, and is growing exponentially. That's part of our new message, that as we go into the C level people, about how important this data, and what with all the things that going on, in terms of the security compliance and how we're going to extend this platform to solve other business issues and provide more value and more business outcomes of using your late. Veeam's emporium has grown within this enterprise customers. However, as we mentioned, we are moving further, we are not standing still, so we have added lots of capabilities in terms of protecting cloud, native cloud, AWS, Azure, as well as a physical servers. So we are moving more into the end to end strategic data management platform provider from being just a niche point solution. >> I want to give you another stat that came out of our research, which I think you'll love, is that our David Foyer calculated that on average, a Fortune 1000 company over I think a three or a four year period, loses about a billion and a half dollars in value because of poorly architected data protection approaches, whether it's they're not end to end, or they're not protecting their cloud data properly, or they're not doing, whether it's backup or disaster recovery properly, well over a billion dollars over a four year period, your thoughts. >> Yeah, that's similar to what our research shows as well. So we do annual research and ask all customers how much down time and data loss costs them annually or through hour, that research shows that average enterprise can lose as much as over 10 million dollars per hour, so if you add it up over four years, that might be close to that number. But with all the compliance and the new security risks and security threat, and reason where this is becoming more and more of a critical business critical problem to solve. >> So this is a huge opportunity for Veeam, because when you think about your total available market, what a lot of time analysts will do is they'll add up all the spending on let's say data protection solutions, but to me your tam is actually quite a bit larger because of this lost revenue opportunity. It's many tens of billions, maybe 30 to 50 billion, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. >> Yeah definitely, so data protection is just part of that core market right, so that data management is much bigger, by data management we mean not just the protection of data, but using this data to help businesses, to accelerate the innovation rate, so to reduce risk, to comply with the new regulations. So all these challenges are much bigger part of not just the data backup and recovery, overall data management market which is much bigger and probably is larger than 20, 30 billion range. >> So okay, so you have 2,500, 3,000 of your favorite people here gathered this week. As always I expect that you're going to have a big sendoff, a big party, what can we expect this week. >> As always, that's part of the Veeam culture, is work hard, play hard, and so Veeam is known for having the best parties. Yeah we, now Peter runs the company day to day, but culturally we still remain young entrepreneurial spirited company right, so we like party and we like to work hard. >> Well you know, if you've never been to a Veeam party, you're missing it. I don't usually stay for these things, I get out of here, we have to do so many Cubes, but we'll be at the Veeam party this week. >> Awesome, awesome. >> Thanks very much, always a pleasure seeing you, and congratulations on all your success. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright you're welcome. Keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, you're watching the Cube from Veeamon 2018. We're in the Windy City and we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Veritas Vision 2017, brought to you be Veritas. (light music) >> Welcome back to the Aria Hotel and Veritas Vision 2017. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Stewart Miniman. Rama Kolappan is here, he's the Vice, worldwide Vice President of Product Management and Global Alliances. Rama, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. So, 360 is a big topic of conversation. It's a fundamental, strategic evolution for Veritas. Why is 360 Data Management needed? >> So, 360 Data Management is an integrated set of products and solutions, if you will, that helps you with data protection, also with copy data management use cases. If you want to move the data and workload for some of the resiliency services as well, and if you, if a customer is also looking for any of the data visibility, which is a very important part of the 360 Data Management. So, we can offer all of it as part of one platform. So it is a very powerful integrated solution set, if you will. >> So we should think of it as a platform, not a product. Everybody talks about platforms today, the API Economy, Platforms beat Products is sort of the mantra, right? Is that the right way to think about it? >> Correct. And, also, we make sure that the different solutions, which is part of 360 Data Management Suite, works with each other, right? For example, if you actually back up your data, you should be able to use the same copy to do a DevTest. So we have a solution called Velocity that is part of our copy data management solution. It should be used, you should be able to use the backup data to do your disaster recovery if you can, right. >> So how does that resonate with customers? I mean, I get the platform perspective, certainly from a vendor view, you got to have the platform. Do the customers see it the same way? Or do they just want to buy products? >> No, so it is a suite, right? And what customers want, especially enterprise customers, they're looking for, to partner with a vendor, like, for example, us. One is for data protection, primarily, in many cases. Once you protect your data, they're looking for instead of finding the products to use, I can use the same data and how can I get value out of it? So I need to have the visibility about the data itself, so we have our InfoMap solution as part of 360 DM suite, to give you the visibility of what that data is with all the metadata information through that, and once they back up the data, they also have other things to do with respect to moving your data, moving your workload, and especially with the cloud adoption, many of them are going through the transformation. There are some pre-consolidation cloud adoption, and so on, so forth, and they need to move their data and workload, say, from on-prem to cloud, and you can also do it from cloud to cloud also, which is coming soon. So, some of those challenges are very critical, and they are looking for someone like Veritas who can offer that solution for them, which is essentially protect it, move your data, workload, be able to do copy data management on it for DevTest use cases, be able to provide visibility, and the digital compliance is a big factor, which I haven't even gone deeper into. There are lot of solutions to offer for the customers. >> Rama, take us inside how 360 Data Management fulfills the vision that was laid out a year ago. I think back to early in my career it was, like, it was the hardware, you know, you follow the Tick-tock of Intel. Today, software, we can usually talk a little bit further about the roadmap but, you know, customers are going to hold you well, "Can I use it now?" Do you have all those pieces, you know? What kind of pieces have been filled in this week, and, you know, where are the pieces where it's more aspirational than where we are today? >> I'm surprised you remembered the Tick-tock Model, which is essentially go through the process and architecture change, alternating with Intel, right? That's the model, I was there for like nine years or so. >> Marching to the cadence of Moore's law, that's what we used to do as an industry. >> Exactly. So, for 360 Data Management, we announced it last year at Vision and at that point, we are putting in the solutions and the use cases together. And what we did, we worked really hard the past one year to make sure that we put these solutions together. One, they should work with each other. Two, we have a tighter integration. And three, we should be also adding more solutions together and we made it also easier for a customer to buy, it's one SKU, right? So, you don't need to have multiple SKUs to do 10 different things. It's much easier to buy. It'll do all the things that an enterprise customer want with all the stuff that I talked about earlier, and from there on, they should be also, we should be able to also cater to some of the newer problems that customers have, which is, essentially, we launched CloudPoint, for example, which does a snapshot management, and we're adding more capabilities to it, and going forward, you will see that the 360 Data Management will evolve to cater to the customer needs. We always place customer in the forefront and make sure that their needs are met first, and that's the stuff that will design the solution, based on their needs. >> We spoke to Mike Palmer this morning and one of the things he said that kind of matured a little bit is, "That interaction with the cloud, when you get down into it, it's nice to talk about public clouds and people use many clouds but they're all a little bit different." So, maybe take us inside, there's a couple announcements you made, maybe give us a little bit of color on that and, you know, come on, tell us how is it working with all these big players? >> So, I run the technology alliances team here as well, so my team works with the various cloud vendors, which is essentially Azure through IBM to Google, AWS, and so on, so forth, right? So we are already working with AWS on multiple product integration, deeper integration. With Azure we are making sure that from some of the roadmap, like when recently we launched EnterpriseWorld, to make sure that it supports Azure, and then also we launched the VIP release that happened very recently. Support for Azure, as well. And we make sure that the other products that I talked about have the cloud as a significant piece of it, part of the roadmap. We have other vendors that are, we have partners that we are working with like IBM, Google, et cetera. They have their own strengths and we are initially going to go, we already sell on a backup as part of our, with IBM. We've been doing that business with them for more than 10 years, right? So there's a lot of moving parts in the sense that they are coming up with a lot of innovation. We are coming up with a lot of innovation and we make sure that we deliver what the customers want with those cloud vendors. And a very simple example is that if you want to do a data and workload migration on-prem to cloud, we can help with that very critical use case for anyone who's going through, looking at cloud transformation and journey to cloud. And, likewise, basic use cases also like backup to cloud, backup in cloud, disaster recovery, migration, DevTest, and these use cases is what we target, and it is part of the 360 Data Management suite itself. >> Can I ask you, it's kind of a wonky question, but it's something I'm curious about, and we talked to Mike Palmer a little bit about it, the challenge of integrating to various cloud services, in the non-trivial nature that, his answer was actually quite interesting. He said, "Listen, it was a lot harder "when we had a gazillion OS's, a lot easier now." But I want to understand that better. So, when you look at, and I am going to pick AWS only because I know it a little bit better and their services, but when you look at the myriad of data, sort of services that they have, are you just targeting the data stores? Like, an S3 or an EBS or a Glacier, or do you have to also think about integrating with other data types, DynamoDB, Kinesis, RedShift, Aurora, et cetera, et cetera. How far do you have to go, and what are the complexities of doing that? >> It's a very interesting time, right. There are various cloud service providers who are there, and each of them have their own services and their own storage, right? So, there's no one standard. S3 has been a standard for last one or two years or so. What we are doing is that we're looking at the portfolio, and we look at the use cases for what we are trying to solve for the customers in the cloud and based on that, we actually have some basic use cases which you don't need a full integration. You need some integration with some of those services, which is where we have people that are doing a lot of closer integration with AWS, and other service providers as well. Going forward, we will be using some of those, you mentioned about many DynamoDB, and other services that they have, machine learning services that they have. >> Stu: Sure. >> And different cloud providers have their own strengths and where they, what they offer. So, we will be looking to integrate with our existing portfolio with some of those services so that it is beneficial for customer. For example, if a customer wants to use only AWS, we are tightly integrated so that they get the best experience in AWS, same thing with Azure, same thing with Google cloud, same thing with IBM cloud, same thing with Oracle public cloud. So, that's our direction. First things first, get all of these basic use cases catered to for the customer. Going forward, have a tighter integration with their services. >> And your value in that chain is visibility and management. It's not so much optimization of that service, is it? >> So, I wouldn't call it as optimization of services. We focus a lot on the data visibility. I think in the keynote, and in my keynote, you might have heard also, is that some of the things that customers, we talk with customers a lot and we find that many of the, many times, they don't know what they have it. Everyone knows that it's called dark data, right. We provide the visibility so that they know what data they have before they do any migration. They know what needs to be migrated. And, as you all know, there are different storage tiers in cloud, like your S3, S3IA. You have your Glacier and it is expensive to bring data back from, say, Glacier to any other storage tier all on-prem. So, you need to have the visibility before you send the data out, right? So, we helped with that as well. So, visibility plays a very critical role in so many areas, not even just cloud but also on-prem as well. >> Rama, 360 Data Management's vision was laid out a year ago. A lot of the pieces are in place now. How are you tracking success, you know? Can you give us how many customers you're doing or just kind of growth, adoption, and how should we be looking forward to kind of measure and say how good this is doing? >> So, we actually launched 360 Data Management not too long ago. In the sense we put the package together, program together, and, as part of it, we saw extremely a lot of good traction not just from one geo, we actually saw a lot of traction in Asia Pacific, in MER, in Americas as well. A lot of the customers are looking for, I mean, there are three tiers to it, as well. We have bronze, gold, silver, right? And we see equal traction across the board. And, right now, I can't give you the numbers numbers, but, having said that, we see a lot of traction from customers on adoption and we have a huge pipeline where customers are very interested. These are backup customers who are looking to do many other things like resiliency services, like copy data management, and so on, so forth. So, the 360 Data Management really solves the problem, what they're looking for. >> Yeah. Can you give us a little color to that packaging and pricing? It's a subscription model to my understanding. >> It is a subscription model but-- >> Which is a little different than if you have a traditional and, you know, what are you seeing, what's the feedback been from customers? >> So, it is a subscription model when we went to market. We are going to be offering as a perpetual as well. So there is a gold, silver bronze tier, I had mentioned it. We have a Backup, InfoMap, and also EBFile as part of the bronze. And then you have, we have P as part of the silver plus bronze together and then in the gold, we have Access, also, as part of the solution. So, they can pick what they want and from our... Going forward, we do hear feedback from customers that they want perpetual as well. So, we already, we heard them. We'll make it happen. >> How about the small, midsize business, what are you, what are you doing for them? And can you talk about that a little bit? >> I'm glad you asked that because a lot of the 360 Data Management is centered around net backup, right? And with net backup, adark, all the good releases. There are also a lot of SMB and mid-market customers, and we have a solution called BackupExec, and I'm sure most of you are aware of BackupExec, it's been there for many years. So, BackupExec solves their problem and within BackupExec, we make sure that there are a lot of SMB customers who have like three or four backup products. And we want to make sure that there's one product that can protect the physical, virtual, and cloud environments. So, BackupExec does that. >> Last question. So, the ecosystem, it's evolving. You guys have great ambitions. Microsoft was here, had a big, big presence. Maybe just general thoughts on the ecosystem and, specifically, your relationship with Microsoft and other cloud suppliers. >> So, we work very closely from a strategic level with the CSPs. We call them the Cloud Service Providers. With Microsoft, we are doing a lot of, not just product integration for Azure, we'll also be supporting many things for AzureStack going forward. We're working with them on that. Also, I mentioned about BackupExec, we're also going to market. We are spending a significant amount of money to define the goal, to go to market with them, with their partners, and so on, so forth. Not just for BackupExec but across for all other products. That said, we also have other partners from the Cloud Service Provider point of view. There is a lot of effort happening from product integration, defining goal market, and as we define that, we're also engaging with their channel partners, who are also our channel partners, to help with the goal market. >> Cool, alright. Well, listen, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE, Rama. Really great to meet you and great to talk to you. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> You're welcome, alright. Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE. We're live from Veritas Vision 2017. Be right back. (light music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's the Cube. Covering .NEXT Conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to .NEXT in D.C. everybody. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with my co-host Stewart Miniman. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and extract a signal from the know as we hear it. .NEXT, Nutanix's customer event. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Julia Palmer is here. She's a research director at Gartner. My new best friend. (laughs) Great to see you again. We had a great dinner last night. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >> Oh, my pleasure. >> So, it's a good little event here. Lot of excitement. But what's your take? You are a former practitioner, now an analyist. You were in the heart of technology at GoDaddy. You really know the market, the products. What do you make of what's going on here at .NEXT? >> You know when hyper convergence first emerged it was all about saving money. It was all about going from infrastructure that was maybe too complex and too expensive to something that maybe, based on commodity will bring lower acquisition costs. But this not the story today at all. That's what, I think my IT leaders are telling me. They're not going after acquisition costs. They're not looking at things and just comparing by the capex. They're looking at the bigger picture and how will this technology will help them to enable business. So that's I think a the biggest difference now. Going from something as simple as, is it going to to be more expensive? Less expensive? To how will it move the needle to my enterprise, to my organization? >> Dave: So that's certainly the messaging that you're hearing from, from Nutanix. As a practitioner, do you buy that? Do you believe that they're more than just an infrastructure company? That they are a transformative force in the industry. >> Julia: Yeah, I hear a lot, you know. I moderated a panel today with three customers and one of them said, you know, I'm in the health care business. I'm here to save lives. I'm not here to reinvent my own hyper converge infrastructures. So, he wants to focus on what's important for his end users. And he wants to stop manage (mumbles). That's just not a focus. And I hear it over and over again from different types of customers. >> Dave: Hmm, now you were not a Nutanix customer previously, correct? >> No. But you did see a lot of different infrastructure products? >> Julia: Absolutely. >> As a practitioner what bothered you about what the vendor community did. What were your likes and dislikes? >> Julia: Everything. Everything bothered me. >> Everything bothered you. I was part of pretty large organization and when you have a big footprint you have big problems. And one of them, for example, was that we would have an outage and we reach out to the vendor and they would tell us, you know, you hit a bug and we have a fix and we will give you the fix and you will be good to go tomorrow. Nevermind the outage that you had and impacted end users. So now a lot of vendors are using predictive analytics. Cloud based analytics, >> Right. to see if there's anything in your existing environment that's susceptible to existing bugs and proactively reach out to you to provide a fix. So I was just thinking, looking back, how many outages I could have prevented if this technology was available when I was running it. >> Stewart: Yeah, Julia, I mean we know that companies for so long, you know, infrastructure, they spent so much of their time, you know, running around, patching it, fixing it, worrying about that. Hyper converge now is trying to talk about, you know, where it fits into the whole cloud picture, which is mostly about an operational model. Where do you see along those trends. Do you believe that hyper converge really fits into a cloud strategy or is it cloud washing from a bunch of infrastructure people? You know? >> I think it has a potential. I don't think it's there today. But I think it has a great potential because when I talked to Gartner end users about, like, why hyper converge? And I actually did some total cost of ownership research, what they all told me that looking back they realized how much OpEx it saved them. And they say it was very difficult. You kind of had to take our chance on it because upfront you can't predict the outcome. Is it really going to be more simple? What does simple mean? What's key performance indicator and simple you can put. So, but looking back, the guys that implemented, they all told me that 60 percent of OpEx they saved. Meaning they didn't last with infrastructure (mumbles). How do they do this? They stop manage components. They start managing VM's. So next step is stop manage VM's, start managing applications and that's what cloud management is all about. Getting out of infrastructure management all together and deliver a business what they want. And usually, they want support for their applications. >> Dave: So, my understanding is that Gartner has analysts that service the vendor community, the executive community, and the practitioner community. You are a direct practitioner, >> Yes. Advisor. >> I deal with IT leaders. Okay, your peeps. (laughs) I think you mentioned to me last night that you've had hundreds of conversations and you've only been at Gartner, what, six months? >> Two years. >> Oh, two years, sorry. I apologize for that. Okay, so in the two years, hundreds of conversations. Is that fair? What kinds of conversations are you having with clients around infrastructure? What are the challenges that they're having? And what are you advising them? I know there are many, many, but maybe you can summarize the top ones. >> That's a very good question. I actually want to write research about it. Top five questions about hyper converse people asking so I've been thinking about it for a while. So, different types of customers, new customers are asking questions about, is it ready? Should I go for it? Why would I go for it? Why can't I keep my (mumbles) infrastructure design? What should I look for as a new key performance indicators? It's not the same way, how would you judge it here. Then existing hyper converge customer are looking for what's next step in hyper convergence. Is it ready for prime time? Is it ready for mission critical applications? Because they're looking at the boxes and they look at the commodity hardware and they still feel uncertain. Can it really run something that they're a proprietary hardware used to run. So we explore the advantages of software defined, software defined storage. Value is in the software. You know, being backed up by software defined storage, my favorite subject, is a, is a, you know abstracting and distributing data that you don't worry about us anymore. So scale out storage replacing proprietary architecture can provide you same level of uptime and performance especially with new, you know, flash options. So that's a popular question. Number three is just the, you know, we leave it to in the age of a compressed differentiation I believe my colleague Dave Russell calls it, and there's a small differences between the vendors and end users are not aware of this. And they can be critical for particular use case. So they always ask strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats on each and every one them. Because we have a lot of solutions on hyper converge now. A lot of vendors, prominent vendors now join the market. So end users are a little bit confused. How do I navigate through this ocean of different hyper converge solutions. >> Stewart: Yeah, so Julia, Nutanix helped really drive a lot of this awareness for the hyper converge market. Now, every company, you know, all the big players have at least one, if not multiple solutions out there. How do you see Nutanix? Are they differentiating themselves? Are they, I know they're trying move beyond kind of the hyper converge label, ya know. What are the doing good? What would you like to see them do more? >> Julia: Yeah, Nutanix is a, you know, was one of the leaders from the very beginning. And, you know, remains the leader. They obviously succeed in at least in a lot a features. And a very fast release cycle of new features. It's easy when you have one focus, you know. Other companies have so many different areas they need to focus or protect and Nutanix doesn't have this problem. And also being able to mix different hardware, I think it's an advantage, you know. Being able, the customer needs to make a choice, you know. I think the structure of the future is going to be all about choice. It's less about, ya know, this is a lock in. I want to pick my hyper visor. I want to pick my hardware and move on. >> Stewart: So one of the things I think Nutanix does best when they're not positioning themselves as a storage solution, however, cause the storage market is tremendously competitive and there's always the, you know, there's the next technology, the next wave. There's so many competitors out there. I mean, do you think things like NVMe over Fabric are going to just, you know, have the potential to disrupt everything that Nutanix is doing? You know, what are some of the big threats to, ya know, their current position? >> Actually, I just wrote a research about how NVMe and NVMe over Fabrics is going to disrupt and improve integrated and hyper converge systems. I think those technologies and it's like NVMe without NVMe over Fabric. It's like, I call it, it's like barbecue without barbecue sauce, right? So the NVMe and NVMe over Fabric has potential to boost performance of hyper converge systems on par with what a solid state, erase today do. So I think a, and it's commodity hardware, right? We're not talking about anything proprietary. So when a we going to move towards this territory when NVMe and NVME over Fabrics become mainstream maybe two years from now, three maybe years from now. I think everybody can enjoy shared distributed storage performance. And, but honestly, your question about storage, like do you need to position yourself as a storage company or not, the major difference about different hyper converge products, in my opinion, is how they do storage. Other than this, it's the same flavors of hyper visor, it's the same commodity hardware. So what do we have different? The ways you did data services. The ways you position your storage. You, you deliver the storage services. >> Stewart: So, you know what, I'm curious. When I read Wall Street stuff about Nutanix they seem to overreact to every bit of news so, you know, the Dell relationship, ya know, is challenging there for that to head win. Oh wait, the Google announcement seems to be a great tailwind, ya know, the big bump in the stock today. Do you see those partnerships as critically important or is it the vision and execution of Nutanix and what they're doing with their customers? >> I think so. I think we live in the age when a ecosystem support is everything, ya know. People not necessarily today go to the public cloud to save money. They go for ecosystem support. To expand their services and their capabilities. That's why, ya know, embracing the cloud and not trying to position yourself against is the right way to go. I think we all need to embrace cloud and find the way that will benefit the end users. >> Dave: Um hmm, so you were sharing with, you spend a fair amount of time, all Gartner analysts who do these things do on magic quadrants. They, we put a lot of effort into them. A lot of people criticize magic quadrants. I think they're unfairly criticized. I know how much work goes into them. >> Thank you. And they are fact based opinions if I could categorize them like that, right? Is that fair? So, do you do one on hyper converged infrastructure or converged? Do you separate converged from hyper converged? How do you look at the market? >> Julia: So last year magic quadrant was integrated systems, which is converged and hyper converged. But what Gartner does is actually, every year we look at the market and we adjust our inclusion criteria. We adjust market definition. So, I don't think it's a big secret that hyper conversion is leading this market right now. And, honestly, in conversion infrastructure, if you look at conversion infrastructure, it's very similar. The only difference in conversion infrastructure is how you do storage. Which storage area you are using. So it becomes less strategic to even analyze conversion infrastructure. So you will see this year, I cannot break all of the news here, but much more emphasis on software driven, hyper converged infrastructure. Not services. Not the appliances, but more software. >> Stewart: I love to hear that cause at Wikimon when we called the category "server sand" so like VM ware, major player both as a partner in Nutanix. A competitor in Nutanix. Ya know, I know there like, they don't show up on the Gartner magic quadrant because they don't fit into that environment. Also the lines between converge, hyper converge, and software defined storage seem to be blurring a lot. I mean, in some ways they're just different ways of packaging. Some of the others, they, hyper converged is a, ya know, delivery option for what they're doing, so. >> Julia: Exactly. >> Where do you see it going, ya know, it's, ya know, obviously beyond the appliance but, ya know. Say there's the Google announcement today. Where do you see, ya know, a company like Nutanix fitting into this hybrid or multi-cloud world? >> Differentiating on software, this is the name of the game, right? So, if you can have a portable software you can run on any hardware, you obviously can continue and run on any cloud as well. And this is an idea. You said it absolutely right. Like software defines storage. It's not a technology. It's a delivery option. So customer needs to be in charge of their options. Do I want to deploy on premises? Do I want to go on cloud? Do I want to have an appliance? Do I want to buy a software, bring your own hardware? All of those choices need to be given to the end user. They need to decide which way they want to go. >> Dave: So, we're going to have Chad Saccage on tomorrow and it's obviously interesting, we see Nutanix selling through Dell. We were there two years ago when that announcement was made. Great, ya know, business. Terrific. But as you were saying, converged and hyper converged and software defined, they're all coming together now. What do you expect is going to happen with EMC and Nutanix? Do you have any... I don't want to use the prediction, but any scenarios that you can see developing there? >> I think, you know I hate to speculate, but I think both of those companies are extremely user oriented. So, if there will be demand for Nutanix that will continue to support Nutanix because they will do it right by the customers. And same with Nutanix, ya know, they never want to turn someone down saying it's not their problem. Both support them in parallel as long as demand is there. >> Dave: So let me ask the question differently, cause I agree with you. EMC, customer centric. Michael Dell, there's nobody more customer centric on the planet. Clearly Nutanix is customer focused. Having said that, if the three of us were advising Dell, EMC on what to do, we would say keep doing what the customers want. Great, check. But from a product roadmap standpoint, I don't know about you Stew, but I know I would push them to look at doing more of a hyper converge, software defined, like roadmap, as opposed to kind of bolted on V-blocks. Which got it all started. Would you agree with that? Or, do you think that's a waste of R&D? Just outsource it or OEM it? >> Software defined storage is hard to do. It's hard to do it from the ground up, ya know. Products need to mature, ya know, VMware, VSEN. It's a mature product. It's a good foundation for software defined storage and for hyper converged. Building something from the ground up, just to separated from VMware, it will be very difficult. >> Dave: Okay, well okay, right. Well then double down on VMware maybe is the advice there. Or maybe they're not really inquisitive right now because they have the debt service but over time maybe bring in startups to innovate there. Or maybe not because when you look at the Dell EMC deal from previous generations, there's a very successful deal. One of the most, probably the most successful storage deal in the history >> Stewart: Talking about the partnership? >> of storage. The partnership. >> Sure. Before Dell bought Compellent, then remember, Dell buys Compellent. I would look back on that and say Dell probably would have been better off just staying with EMC. Reselling EMC. I mean you were there during those days. I don't know. Was Compellent and EqualLogic, >> EqualLogic were those successful acquisitions in your view? In retrospect. >> Stewart: In retrospect they did pretty well but you're right Dave, the EMC partnership was way more money. I think by the time Dell bought EMC the internal Dell storage, ya know, revenue had grown to almost, or a, ya know, order of magnitude, the same size of EMC and they had to put a lot more emphasis into it. So, you know, better margins, ya know, just if they continue to partner. >> Dave: So maybe it's better for Dell to continue to partner is kind of your point. >> Stewart: Yeah. >> Julia: Absolutely. >> Uh huh, okay. Very diplomatic. (laughs) >> Julia: Would you expect anything else? (laughs) >> Julia, thanks so much for coming on the Cube >> Oh, thank you guys it was a pleasure having you. >> it was my pleasure >> Julia: Thank you for having me. >> You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back to wrap right after this short break. This is the Cube. We're live from D.C. at Nutanix .NEXT. Be right back. (electronic music) >> Narrator: Robert Hershev.