>> From the Aria Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas, I don't know, 50,000, 60,000. I can't wait 'til the number comes in, there's a lot of people at this event. Been coming for years, we actually have nine days of coverage here spread out over three sets in four different locations, but we're kickin' it off tonight, at the AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog event here at the Aria. Come on by there's no lines over here. I'm sure there's giant lines over at the Sands. We're excited to see an old friend and make a new friend, and talk about the service catalogs from some of the experts and Dave Wright, Chief Innovation Officer from ServiceNow, has been on many, many times. >> I have. >> Dave great to see you. >> No, good to be here. >> And our new friend MaSonya Scott, she's Senior Business Development Manager, at AWS Service Catalog. >> Hi, how are you? >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> So there's a lot of talk about service catalog. We know about the ServiceNow Service Catalog. We got the AWS Service Catalog. But now you guys have brought these two things together. >> Yes. >> Why did you bring it together? How did it happen? How did we get here today? >> So, AWS, 95% of our features are based on what customer feedback. And so we were listening to our customers tell us that, hey it's your innovation in AWS Service Catalog, where you provide the governance, the guardrails, the launch constraints is great but we already have a service catalog with the ideas and tools such as ServiceNow and how can federate that ingest the details and information into ServiceNow so that we can do it in one place? So our developers don't have to swivel chair between two different systems. >> Right. >> So we listened to that feedback. Got requirements, started a proof of concept, and then we built on it and we're now on our third iteration. >> And Dave, what were you hearing your side of the chair? >> So we were getting, customers were coming to us saying they wanted a similar experience they were getting using regular service catalog. So they wanted a unified experience. They wanted the ability to have governance and control over what was happening. But most importantly they wanted us to integrate because they'd say, hey, you two are both strategic platforms for us. We don't want to go to the last mile after to aid the integration so you guys need to work together and sort it out. So, it was very much customer driven. It was customers that were saying, We want you guys to work together more closely. >> I love it. I just love the customer-centric nature because we hear it over and over again. >> Yes. >> And this is kind of a great example of a real instance. And you didn't really care, per se, whose was kind of on top. What are the logging into initially. >> Right. >> You just wanted to get the integration done. >> Yes. >> And it sounds like today, right now it's a ServiceNow log in and then it integrates with the AWS Service catalog-- >> Yes. >> Underneath. >> Right. So for the AWS Service Catalog we state the source of truth for all the resources, the products and the portfolios. And then we sync to ServiceNow Service Catalog through their scheduled job process and we expose products that the ServiceNow administrator wants their end-users to see. So they can order an iPhone and now they can order a web server. >> And where's the identity? Is that in the ServiceNow platform now in terms the rights and access that an individual person has inside of your catalog. >> So we have a scoped app in ServiceNow where you correlate the identities in AWS to a role in ServiceNow. >> Okay. >> So that's that. And then the best thing about the app is that the ServiceNow end users doesn't have direct access to the AWS console. >> Right. They just order what is a compliant, secure product product that they need to have. And then even in the AWS console, the connection only gives the end user role that's assumed access to the AWS Service Catalog. So not even direct resources to EC2 or S3. And so what that enables is that segregation of duty. >> Right. >> And so we put the permissions on the launch constraints and then they deplore products and then you can give the evidence in an audit to what you've provisioned. >> Okay. And then where is this in the life cycle? You said, I think we're kind of past POCs getting into production? >> Yeah our customers are starting to move to production, doing POCs, giving us feedback and as they give us more feedback, we're creating more releases. We've launched our third iteration of features last Monday, the 19th and what we did was we integrated not only just AWS Service Catalog but the ability through AWS Systems Manager to do SSM actions so if you provision a web server, now you can start, stop, reboot it. And so, then once you do that we create a change in ServiceNow's IT change management. So we're moving more from provisioning as well as into operational actions as well. >> So that's what was great for us was if you've got that point of initiation where you know something's happening, we can then update the CMDB in real time, we can start looking at software asset management so we can see what's deployed. And then we've also found this great use cases where we can look at how we actually map the service to then be able to use Amazon's cloud migration products to be able to speed up migrations as well. >> Yes. Yes, and so customers are not only just provisioning storage or EC2's but anything from a cloud formation template workspace, an Amazon workplace. >> Right. >> We can also send those requests through ServiceNow we got a lot of feedback on that. >> Right. >> We have sessions and builder projects today at re:Invent that are showing how that works. >> So it begs the question obviously down the road, you know will kind of the priority switch from the customer perspective? You know, will ServiceNow be integrated in through the marketplace of the service catalog and people access it through that way? >> I think there's no reason why it couldn't be at some point. The only challenge we have at the moment is obviously people using the service catalog to provision all kinds of things as well as AWS components >> Right, right. >> But if you're a core AWS shopper and that's what you're using everything for there's no reason why you couldn't flip that around. >> Right, I was just thinking you know what screen are you on all day, right? You know everybody wants your attention. They want that screen and if that's your work screen, that's your work screen so know you're opening this up, really adds a whole lot of power to the ServiceNow work screen that wasn't there before. >> We've always focused on can it change what the employee experience is like to just try and give them, ironically an Amazon-like experience. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> Before we said it's easy for me to order stuff in the real world for me to just get something from Amazon why couldn't I have exactly that same experience when I wanted to order any piece of IT equipment whether it be physical, virtual, peripherals, whatever. So that's why we're trying to change the experience but it's funny that it's come through that full circle of them going, oh, it would be good if it was like that, and then we end up working with these guys anyway. >> So did you get a cake? (laughing) >> Did I get a cake? I've seen many cakes in my career. But no, I think you need to send me a cake. >> We need to do it, get a go live cake. >> I know, I know >> Yeah you got to get a Go Live cake once you get that first one up and official and ready to roll. >> We ought to do that, take a picture. >> See your product manager. >> It's a huge tradition. It's one of the coolest things of the ServiceNow culture I have to say. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> All right. So any final words on this partnership beyond just continuing to make the improvements getting closer to production and build more functionality? Anything you want to highlight as you turn the calendar on 2018 and 2019's just around the corner? >> So we're looking to get feedback on not just provisioning but going through other management tool services and trying to see what the customers are looking for. So that's one of those key features is just building bigger not just AWS Service Catalog but a connector between the two platforms so that we can continue to create that synergy. >> Excellent. All right, well thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and we'll see you I think in May. (laughing) Is usually when we see you. And we see AWS, I think we had six shows this year. You guys just keep rolling. >> Yes. >> So thanks for taking a few minutes and have a terrific show. >> No great to be here. >> Thank you. >> All right, she's MaSonya, he's Dave and I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. It's the AWS Marketplace Service Catalog Enterprise at the Aria, come on by. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of AWS re:Invent Amazon Web Services annual conference, forty-five thousand people here. Huge event. This is the industry bellwether for Cloud computing now, soon to be IT public sector, IOT, AI, as Amazon sets the trends. TheCUBE's got the coverage. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Our next two guests is Barry Russell, general manager and (mumbles) for Amazon Web Services Marketplace, hot and on fire, growing, and Thomas Wyatt, chief strategy officer at App Dynamics, partner of AWS. Welcome to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here guys. >> Thank you. >> Partner central, lot of love going on in the partnerships because Amazon has an enabling platform. They lower the costs, increase the value, and increase the wealth creation flowing around. You guys are taking advantage of that. >> Absolutely, so with AppDynamics, we're helping customers with their Cloud migration to Amazon. You know, applications really are becoming the foundation of the modern business and understanding the performance of those applications, the users, the application, the business metrics themselves is critical, as this really signifies the brand for most companies. So as they are moving their workloads over to Amazon, it's critical they really understand how things are performing and make sure that they perform well in that new environment. And so the relationship we've had together has been phenomenal in helping that happen. >> (mumbles) done a lot of work, though, on the app side. And it's interesting, and the hottest trend right now that we're seeing, certainly in this Cloud conversion, IT in particular, as well as other markets, I mentioned IOT and AI, obviously hot as hell as well, is the instrumentation of the data is super critical. >> Yes, yes. >> And that is not new to you guys. But it's now becoming apparent that it's easier to do in the Cloud than it was before. >> Sure. >> What do you see? I mean you must look at the Cloud and be like, man this is so awesome, horizontally scalable, but all the goodness of having that instrumentation. What's your take on that? >> Right so it really starts with that. Instrumentation provides you the insights in real time necessary to take advantage of the optimizations that Cloud provides you, so the ability to scale up, scale down. If you know how your application is performing in real time, you take that guesswork out. And I think that's really what, leveling AppDynamics with Amazon really gives you that capability, the best of both worlds. >> Yeah, Barry, the application monitoring space, you have a number of really good partners here. Amazon also has some of their own pieces. How do you balance that sort of engagement? We've seen, you know the partner summit I saw some really good slides up there. We've interviewed a number of the partners of this space, but want to get your viewpoint. Well, first, AppDynamics makes their software available as SaaS, which is a pretty quickly growing trend, with all sorts of customers, you know, particularly enterprise customers wanting to move to that model. And then we work with AppDynamics to come up with a specific use case for the workloads that are migrating over, particularly with customers that are migrating large amount of workloads as they're shutting down data centers. And we make those available to those customers and provide them with a choice. And once we document that technical use case we can put that in the hands of our SAs, our solution architects, Proserv teams, and consulting partners like 2nd Watch and Slalom, Accenture, and Deloitte, to help advise the customer on which third-party software meets those workload needs best. >> Thomas, you know, Cisco's got a pretty sizable presence at this show. I was mentioning, you know, this is the second recently acquired company of Cisco that we've had on the program this week. I mean, they spent billions of dollars on AppDynamics, bunch of others. Cisco has always been an acquisitive company, but, you know, what is the kind of acceleration of Cloud, mean for Cisco. How are companies like AppDynamics helping along that shift for Cisco's business? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think the way to think about it is, Cisco's really been helping our customers with their networking, their data center, security, but it was a critical missing component for us was really understanding application intelligence and how end users and businesses are impacted by the infrastructure. And so, bringing AppDynamics into part of Cisco, which we're running it fairly autonomously, but having the ability to connect to other infrastructure-related products to provide more real-time intelligence is a key part of the strategy. So bringing those things together and then complementing that with our Cloud partners, and the marketplace has really made that super easy for us now, from the context of making it easier to buy AppDynamics with AWS. That combination has been super powerful. >> Talk about the marketplace dynamics that you're trying to create, Barry, because you obviously got a good thing going. What are you doing to create the incentives, to create a frictionless environment? Because obviously you don't want any friction, but you got growth. >> Barry: We do. >> What are some of the speed bumps you're hitting? How are you addressing it? How are you with AppDynamics of the world? Is there incentive programs? Is there joint selling? How should partners think about that? And then I'd love to get your reaction to Amazon's programs. >> Well there's one key thing that we launched a couple of weeks ago. It's called seller private offers. And what it enabled us to do, and it was kind of a missing piece, was for a seller to work with a customer, so AppDynamics working with a customer, to negotiate on best price and terms for a longer period of duration of use, one, two, or three year subscription. That enabled the customer to get the best terms and price to run the software on AWS, and it also enabled sales teams, for example, working with Cisco and AppDynamics, to sell in a way that they were more accustomed to once a customer was familiar with the software. And then we announced... >> Renewals' a recurring revenue. >> Right. >> Right. >> They're smiling over there. >> And then we paired it with enterprise contract that we launched on Tuesday. Which was a negotiated set of terms to remove a ton of friction around legal negotiation of standard contract terms between software vendors and enterprise buyers, and so we're trying to innovate between both the buyer and the seller at all times. >> So until you can actually voice order product, you're gonna always be chippin' away at the friction? >> Barry: Always. >> Thomas: Right. >> All right, your reaction to Amazon, how are they a partner? You can tell the truth even though he's standing right there. >> Thomas: No absolutely. >> Come on... >> I mean, here's the key thing. We've been a marketplace partner for several quarters now. We're seeing huge transactions flow through that, and as part of that, the two key things that we're finding. The first one is the deal sizes are expanding, and largely because there's a lot of comfort from the end customers at the combination of AppDynamics working closely with AWS, ensuring those systems are integrated, that they work well together, they can be procured together, there's common bill. Those kind of capabilities have really helped us. The second thing is, we're proving that we can help accelerate the pace of Cloud migration. So, we're seeing on average our enterprise customers are getting through the Cloud 30% faster by using the two solutions together. >> So they like the buying methodology. >> Thomas: That's right. >> And speed of deployment. >> The speed of deployment and the fact that when they get there, they know their environment's going to be very stable. They have that additional assurance because they've got the performance monitoring metrics before they make the move, and then once they get there they have it. Because the AppDynamics really provides you that visibility across both. So, thinking about it from... >> So I saw the announcement, it was one click was it Andy who put up one click something? Was that a marketplace deal? I saw it on the keynote yesterday. It might have been one click (mumbles), I don't know. >> I don't think it was associated with the marketplace. We do still have that feature. Yeah, so. >> So things are going good? You're happy? >> Yeah, I mean a great example, NASDAQ spoke yesterday with Barry, Heather Abbott, and talked about their experience about moving their workloads over to AWS and how AppDynamics was instrumental to help them understand the dependencies of their environment before they made that transition. There are so many great examples of that, and that's why we think... >> All right, so final question for you, then I know Stu wants to jump in, Andy Jassy told me when I interviewed him last week for the event, customers vote with their workloads. What are the workloads that you're seeing moving over? What kinds of workloads fit into this new style, this new guard model of... >> I would say a couple years ago it was primarily new apps, building from the ground up. Now it's the mission critical stuff. It's the important things that people are running their businesses on, moving those over, and I think that's part of the reason why AppD is becoming more integrated into that, is because AppD instruments generally the most critical applications, not necessarily the third and fourth tier. So the typical workloads that impact revenue, impact customer engagements, are ones that are now being... >> So you're at the center of all the migrations? >> Thomas: Yeah. >> Awesome. >> So the one, can't let you go without asking, beyond just getting to the Cloud, I'm wondering what you're seeing from customers and how you're working with them on moving along from just instances to containerization and even serverless. >> Yeah, in the enterprise space we're definitely seeing the phase one was just move the existing VMs over. Now it's refactoring and reestablishing the products and the architectures based on the modern technologies like Lamba and Serverless, and other things. It's all great. It's a really exciting time. >> Thomas Wyatt, chief strategy officer AppDynamics, happy partner obviously (mumbles) workloads are moving to the Cloud. Barry Russell, general manager of the place making it happen. >> Congratulations, Barry, on your success. >> Thank you. >> And AppDynamics >> Thank you. >> Congratulations on your acquisition with Cisco. Big deal. You guys are driving a big part of their transformation. >> Barry: Yes. Congratulations to you guys as well. >> Thank you. >> Of course, Amazon's taking no prisoners here at re:Invent, 45,000 people. I'm John Furrier (mumbles) more live coverage from day 3 after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas: It's theCUBE covering AWS reInvent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back, everyone, we're live here in Las Vegas. 45,000 people here at Amazon Web Services reInvent. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stu Miniman. Our next guests are Barry Russell, general manager and business development of Amazon Web Services marketplace, growing like a weed, and Chad Whalen, who is the global Vice President of Public Cloud for F5, guys, welcome back to theCUBE. Barry, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So, I mean, just, you can kinda see it now. Clear as day, no more, I mean, Andy says, "We're okay to be misunderstood." That quote, okay, no one's gonna misunderstand the Marketplace. >> Barry: I think it's pretty clear. >> You get in there, and you make money. It's pretty straightforward. >> Barry: Reducing a bunch of friction for customers. >> What's the current pitch, I mean, because this sounds like an easy sell at this point, what's the real benefits? Because, more of services are coming in. You got composability. What's the current state of the Marketplace? >> Yeah, you know, I think it's a couple of things. Uh, it's about selection and customer choice, so we've really grown the catalog, in terms of number of listings that are available and now more than 4200 listings in the catalog, and we announced three key features that we launched on Tuesday: AWS private link which enables SAS products to be run in a VPC. We announced Private Image Build that allows enterprise customers to run their own hardened OS underneath an image, and then we announced Enterprise Contract to reduce friction in the procurement process between large enterprise customers and software vendors. >> Okay, so I gotta ask, the AWS question: What was the working backwards document on this? Was it a main request from the customers? What was the main driver for some of these features because it sounds like they want to be cloud native, but, yet, they still gotta get that migration over, or was it something else, what was the driver? >> The driver was customer feedback. We went out, and we interviewed hundreds of customers over the last 12 months before we started building some of these features, and, without a doubt, they told us they wanted broader selection, broader deployment options, and to reduce friction around the contracting process, and then we just started building, and, over the course of the last nine to 10 months, that's what we've delivered. >> Awesome, all right, F5, you guys are in the Marketplace. You're partnered with AWS. What's your relationship with AWS, how's that going? >> Oh, I would say our relationship with AWS is fantastic. I mean, they're obviously the innovator in the Cloud space. Public Cloud is a strategic imperative for F5. They're at the vanguard of really the innovation of what's taking place in Public Cloud, and Marketplace is that fantastic medium to reach market, and, so, we really have the premise around meeting our customers how and when they want to be met. Marketplace is an excellent vehicle for us to do that, and we've enjoyed a lot of success with launch. >> How has your customers' consumption changed with the Cloud 'cause I can only imagine that, as they look at the mix of how they're gonna consume technology, they want some Cloud. How did you guys hone in on AWS? What was the real factor there? Was is acquisition of the technology? Was it the performance, what was some of the key things? >> You know, I think it's all about really reducing the friction in the process, right? Our customers are moving to the Cloud to have real-time agility and velocity in their business. What we get out of Marketplace is a fantastic set of options from a commercial construct. This solved the customer requirements. If it's going to be at development, we do it on a utility by the hour. When you start to go into production, we can do it in a subscription or a BYOL, so it's really about what application is there permanence and what's the best outcome for the customer, and we have all of that in front of us in multi-year agreements or otherwise leverage in this vehicle. >> So they're tailoring the products, basically. >> Absolutely. >> It sounds like customers are looking at this tailored model, whatever their needs are. They don't wanna be forced into a. >> Correct. >> Certain use case, they can just kind of mix and match. >> Yup, absolutely. >> Yeah, Barry, you know, think networking security have been spaces that I've seen really exploding in this ecosystem over the last couple a years. It, building off of what John was say, I mean, how much of it is custom stuff? You know, things that they're coming, working with Amazon versus just, you know, oh, it's the everything store where I can go get pieces? >> Well, we work with each vendor that lists in the catalog. We have a SA team, Solution Architect team, to work with them on the optimal architecture, be that an omni-based, API-based, and SAS-based, and then we give that vendor and their product development teams the ability to price those products in utility consumption model metered, for example, on the amount of data or band-width consumed, multi-year contracts that are publicly priced or negotiated behind the scenes. So, both in the innovation and the engineering and how the customer actually deploys the product, we innovate on pricing and consumption models to match those deployment options, and we give vendors, all vendors, that enter the catalog, whether they're open-source or commercial products, like F5, the option to use all of those features. >> Yeah, Chad, I think back to, you know, there was the wave of like software, you know, happening kind of networking and secured and everything, but, you know, you've always been in kind of the application delivery portion of this. How is Cloud accelerating your customers' journey and impacting how fast you need to change inside at F5? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think that because Public Cloud is such a fantastic vehicle for our customers it was really customers-focused, right? So, when you work back from what the customer wants both in terms of how you orchestrate, how you automate, and then with the commercial construct is then they can use it in a best-fit application, and that's really the grounding point for us, and, when we get friction, any time you have a new medium there's going to be friction points and learning points. We've worked in concert with AWS, Marketplace in particular, about solving these ways, whether it's in private offers or custom negotiated offers specifically for customers to meet their needs from an economic and a delivery standpoint. >> I gotta ask the question 'cause it always pops into my head, especially at this reInvent, the pace of services being released, Lambda, Serverless, you can just see it coming. It's going to put more pressure under the hood for automation, that heavy lifting that's Dev Ops, as we know, right, so no new news there. The question is what does it mean for the Marketplace 'cause now you're gonna be under a lot of pressure to integrate a lot of these plumbing and or, abstracted away dev ops-like tools that developers don't wanna provision, so you have the automate so that seems like a challenge. How are you guys dealing with that? How do you make Lambda sing? How do you guys make this thing go smoother? >> Yeah, it's a really great question. I mean, one of the challenges that you get in, when you get into what I would say Cloud Sprawl, within an organization, is how do you maintain the governance and compliance of those workloads? And so we're really lookin' at it from that basis. We want to give as much flexibility into the model while still maintaining what was designed from the beginning, and so our customers wanna use the rules. They wanna have that portability into Public Cloud so they have the assurance. The underlying technologies are just the delivery vehicles, whether it's containers or Lambda or whatever in a server-less architecture, we're focused really on making sure that we have that ubiquity of posture across the asset wherever that asset is. >> Jeff: Makes your sources work together properly. >> Absolutely. >> Barry, what's the trends that you're seeing in the Marketplace? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of growth. Lot of data, and one of the things that I love about this reInvent is they're servicing this new playbook of, hey, use the data, your own data. We saw a new relic had a great report, Sumo Logic kind of report, that basically anonymizes the data, but they're using real data and Verner will talk about this at the keynote. What data can you share about the Marketplace that shows some trends that indicates or allows us to read the tea leaves of what's gonna happen next? >> Well, I think the customer growth stat that we shared, in terms of active monthly customers, we've gone from a hundred active monthly customers we announced last reInvent last year when we were here to now 160,000 active customers using the Marketplace, so we see steady growth. We see growth and adoption from the enterprise, and customers like Shell and Thomson Reuters, that we announced were part of Enterprise contracts on Tuesday, really beginning to think about using the Marketplace to go from traditional procurement moving to digital procurement model allows their IT organizations' dev ops teams to move much fast when pairing with services like a Kinesis, like an S3, like a Red Shift, when they're matching third party software with an AWS-native service. >> Jeff: Are you happy with things right now? Pretty much looking pretty good! >> I'm happy. >> Jeff: Middle of the fairway. >> I think it's been a fantastic show! (laughing) >> I'm happy, F5 has been a great partner of ours in the Marketplace, I'm a happy camper. >> Jeff: What's next? >> What's next? I think what's next for us next year is continuing to grow the Enterprise contract that we deployed, so we started with a small set of customers and vendors that participated to help us arrive at that contract that they both could use, and, I think that over the course of the next 12 months, we really need to think about the types of customers and vendors that enter that program. >> All right, Barry Russell and Chad Whalen with F5. Barry will be back on our next segment with another partner. A lot of partner goodness here. Amazon's ecosystem's exploding, and there's a lot of value to be had by all. That's theCUBE bringing you some content value on our third day live coverage. 45,000 people here this year at Amazon Webster's reInvent. More after this short break. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's Virtual Coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 virtual. Normally we're in person. This year because of the pandemic, we're doing it remote. We're Cube Virtual covering AWS re:Invent Virtual. I'm John for your host. We are theCUBE Virtual, two great guests here Linda Tong a general manager, AppDynamics and Dave McCann vice-president of AWS migration, marketplace and control services. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks so much for having us. >> Good to see you again John. >> Linda we were talking to some AppDynamics folks and some of your customers, obviously we've been following the growth of the marketplace for many years. The confluence of the tailwinds of the innovation going on with COVID and post COVID strategies is about helping customers where they are and they're not in the office anymore. They got to get the job done. This is really important on this cloud migration of getting software in the hands of people to write these modern apps. It's a big theme. What's your perspective on this right now, because you guys are partnered with Amazon, share your vision. >> Yeah, absolutely. And you nailed it. It's with COVID-19 our customers like IT organizations are finding this need to accelerate their migration to the cloud. And what's more important is they're finding that more and more of their customers are engaging through digital experiences and with the influx of people leaning on those digital experiences during COVID, performance issues are becoming more and more apparent. And so we're helping our customers as they migrate to the cloud. And specifically to AWS, it's a big partnership for us because we need to understand how our customers and how they manage performance through these transitions can stay flawless so that they can manage those experiences for their end users. >> Yeah, Dave, I've been watching this discovery observation space, observability, service meshes, Kubernetes, cloud native higher level services have really gotten popularity have gone mainstream. So there's more and more demand for I won't call it point products. That's an old term, but in the cloud, these are just higher level services that people are adopting more of. You're seeing huge pickup in the marketplace of companies who are selling through there and engaging but it's not just selling, you're integrating. What's your vision for all of this? >> So, John, you're absolutely right. Our customers as they migrate more and more applications to the cloud and in some regulated industries they still have applications running on premise. They're really actually standing up a new operating model where they not only want observability of what's going on but I feel what we would call service management framework or a set of tools to manage the application portfolio. And companies around the world are putting together new common instance of AWS native services, such as CloudWatch CloudTrail, Service Catalog, AWS Config, Control Tower with best in class vendors like Cisco AppDynamics. And each company is building their own collection of tools into management framework that allows them to optimally modernize and manage their application portfolio. And it's a rising topic around the world. >> Linda, I want to get back to you on AppDynamics you're the leader of the team as general manager, congratulations. You know a little bit about software in the cloud and CloudScale and your career going back to Google now at AppDynamics you've seen a lot of the changes. What specifically value do you see AppDynamics and Amazon bringing to the market today? Because the world's changed. It's still large scale, there's faster speed but you can't just buy things like anymore, I've got to go in send a ticket request, go to procurement, developers want to integrate immediately. They need to integrate when they see a problem they got to integrate technology. This seems to be a trend. What's your, where is AppDynamics bringing the value of AWS to the market? >> Absolutely I think it's threefold. One it's for a lot of these developers, as they start to migrate their applications and modernize them with AWS and all the great services that are available we can partner to help them with that modernization effort while giving them visibility into the performance of those applications to make sure that they don't miss a beat as they deploy those on these new sets of services over AWS. The second thing is, for those customers that are leveraging AWS for that migration, we have a seamless integration between AppDynamics and AWS. So you can buy our service directly through AWS marketplace. So that becomes a really easy procurement. And then on top of that, as, a lot of developers have to manage hybrid employments, so new modern applications has done AWS as well as some of their traditional applications that are talking to each other. They can get that full end to end visibility leveraging AppDynamics so that they can understand what's going on across the entirety of their business as they start to lead these transformations across our organization. >> Dave, just comment on if you can, 'cause I know a little bit about some of the things you put in place, the enterprise I forget development or sales program where at the prices can be more friendly. I think this is kind of a use case where this is proving enterprises can get what they need in the marketplace that not only is it successful but you have traction with this. What's you take on... >> There's a number of motions that we're doing there John, to help large companies around the world who may have, dozens, hundreds and in comes cases with fortune 100 they're thousands of applications. And so you actually have to solve multiple challenges that the company has. On the procurement side, we're obviously working with AppDynamics to publish as a service right in AWS marketplace. And we have over 300,000 customers worldwide only AWS marketplace who are subscribing to software and provisioning out to hundreds and thousands of developers, all of whom are using their own AWS accounts. So on that provisioning and subscription experience we work deeply with the AppDynamics team to meet that a really seamless experience from discovery to provision to meter and billing. On the interoperability front, as Linda mentioned, our customers want these best in class tools like AppDynamics to work well with the other AWS services so that they can really have a very modern DevOps pipeline for those applications that are moving to more of a CICD model. And for people who are still running in a bit more of an Intel, ITSM model, they've still got to manage and monitor applications that haven't quite got there in the full modernization stack. So this is actually happening not just with the customer, the enterprise or with the ISV AppDynamics, this transitions' also working with all the consulting firms. And a lot of the large software resellers around the world, the computer centers of Europe the right spaces, the presidios of North America. The DXEs of Asia Pacific. These consulting partners are also using tools such as AppDynamics so to become a managed service provider. And in some cases on that journey to the cloud no join the customer saying I'm really busy I'm modernizing applications. Hey consulting partner, can you manage some part of my infrastructure, some part of my stack? And tools like AppDynamics and Kubernetes and AWS become really central tool kits to the new emerging managed service providers that are all around the world. >> Yeah, and I talked about this years ago with Andy Jassy and I think we were riffing on this run this new set of category creations of services and companies. Linda this appears to be one of those cases where, there's a category with existing spend and existing customers. So what he just said is interesting. And I want to get your thoughts because these are these points of these new areas where AppDynamics can potentially help enterprises. What are some of the areas that you see AppDynamics helping enterprises in their cloud adoption journey 'cause they want some cloud native we see Hybrid and all the announcements, Outpost, now Edge it's a distributed computer. You need to have software at every piece of the puzzle. So what's your, what areas can you share specifically? >> Absolutely and so, like Dave was just saying it's, as these organizations start to make these major cloud migrations, one, their applications are getting actually significantly more complex than they've ever been. And they're now spanning a much broader ecosystem than they've ever spanned before. So that the kind of coverage that IT organizations and DevOps needs to cover not only is seeing this explosion of data but it's also now spanning areas of control that some of these folks have never had to think about before. And so the value of AppDynamics is our ability to be able to ingest data from your cloud native applications your traditional applications, all different sources of domain data that you want to get including things like security data. So we can start to correlate that in a meaningful way and then tie that back to business insights. And so the way that AppDynamics is actually bringing value to the table is not only helping our customers get visibility across the entire stack, but actually only surfacing the most meaningful insights to help them act on that those performance issues that they might see and more meaningfully manage their businesses. >> Linda I think you guys are onto something really big not just on the wave and just the positioning but one of the trends that we're reporting and we're going to be teasing out all week three weeks here is automation is great but that's just baseline. Everything is a service really speaks to some of the things that you guys have to put in place 'cause the mandate is everything should be a service. Now, I mean, I'm overgeneralizing but that's generally the ivory tower C suite message. Make it as a service cloud scale is beautiful, but then you when you pass it down to the teams, that's like that's not easy boss. It's not easy to do. That's really kind of what you're getting at here. It's not just automation and DevOps. It's the business model. >> Absolutely it's the intelligence it's once you create thousands and thousands of services, how do you manage them effectively and know what matters and what doesn't? >> Dave your final word here on on this point is when you think about that if you believe that to be true, then I'm just going to be downloading services whenever I need them. So it's almost like quasi self service managed services kind of coming together in real time or with my off base there. What's your take on that? >> No, we're actually working together with that dynamic and so all these kinds of things. So as we proliferate services, John and, AWS has got over 175 services and application is made up of many components. So how do you actually correlate an associate all the resources that make up that application? And if you think about dynamics name is the application and dynamics what's going on with the application. So we actually just launched today service catalog application registry, which is a new API surface for the AWS service catalog that allows you to define NGS on all the AWS resources from a cloud formation stack set all the way down into an easy to instance and associate that's an application known. And so the higher level of abstraction is what we talked about is management of the application. And what customers want to do, CIO's want to manage the application all the resources associated through the application whether the application is running well, is it secure? Is it on budget? Whether it's actually running? So application management is kind of where people are going even though their application is made up of dozens of associated services. So this is the next frontier. >> Well you guys are just great to have on world-class partnership two leaders, AppDynamics, story history they continue to do well. And even now with the world going on, Dave congratulations on your success. Final question for both of you is, where's the partnership go from here? I think it's a great success story. What's in the store for the future? >> Linda. >> Yeah to the moon. It's look AWS is an amazing partner. And Dave is a great guy to work with and where we are going is to help our customers build world-class applications and be able to manage them and modernize those effectively. And there's no way we could do that without partners at AWS. So it's a, there's a long-term relationship here. >> Well, congratulations, Linda Tong general manager AppDynamics. Thanks for coming on, and virtually at least we'll see you on the Interwebs during the next couple of weeks here, Virtual re:Invent Dave McCann. Of course, we'll see you again and great to watch you continue to grow. Is there any new title is going to add to your thing marketplace now it's migration, control services come on. >> With innovation culture we keep innovating. >> Great to have you guys on. Thanks for, thanks for sharing, appreciate it. >> John, Linda thank you very much. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for that great insight. Really appreciate it. I'm John from theCUBE you're watching coverage of re:Invent 2020. This is theCUBE virtual. (upbeat music)

>> From New York City, it's theCube covering New Relic Feature Stack 2019. Brought to you by New Relic. >> Stu: Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCube's first year of coverage at the seventh year of New Relic's Futurestack 2019 here in New York City and happy to welcome back to the program two Cube alumni. So, Todd Osborne is the GVP of Alliances and Channel with New Relic and Dave McCann is the Vice President of Migration Services, Marketplace and Control Services with AWS. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Dave: Great seeing you again, Stu. >> Todd: Thanks for having us. >> Allright, um, Todd, let's start with you uh, you know, quite a bit of a relationship with, between New Relic and AWS. I know we've had Lou on our program at the AWS shows a couple of times. So, set us up with the, the partnership and how it's been evolving. >> Todd: Yeah, it's been a, uh an unbelievable partnership, um, for many, many years we've worked together starting with technology integrations, we've got dozens of them that, that natively monitor a bunch of different AWS services but the most exciting thing of late ah, really came to life middle of last year when we started working with, uh, a bunch of different folks at AWS. Our, basically, our biggest thing that we need help with is migrations. We know we have this massive opportunity, uh, to, for more and more applications more and more workloads to move to the cloud. There's lots of different ways in which customers, partners and Amazon needed help in doing that. They brought us several different challenges related to that and we responded by, ah, at Reinvent Launch last year, launching what we call the Cloud Adoption Solution. That really was how, um, a process that linked up with the Amazon Migration Acceleration Program and used New Relic as the platform to help with migrations from beginning to end. So, starting with the planning, uh, phase of the process, getting the information you need to have a successful migration and design a successful migration, troubleshooting that may, of anything tat may occur during the migration and then post migration, really helping to optimize the performance and cost of how that migration, uh, or that post migration, ah, optimization and run phase. So, it started with that. It's really evolved. What's been really amazing, just since we launced last November December at Reinvent, the whole, we've seen a massive shift already, just the last nine months, where it's not about just simple lift and shift anymore, almost all customers that are migrating now, are also thinking about modernizing their software stack, running on containers, using kubernetes, running micro services, which is New Relic's sweet spot, really, at the application space. So, as we've evolved, starting with migration, evolving into modernization, it's been an amazing partnership working with AWS. >> Stu: So, Dave, migration services, obviously something we hear a lot about from AWS. Every time I go on one of these shows, it's one of the key steps that gets thrown out. Uh, you have a very broad ecosystem, the marketplace, uh, you know is, is the closest I call to the kind of the enterprise app store, uh, of today. Tell us what's, you know, special and, really, you know the effort that goes together between AWS and New Relic here. >> Dave: So, I think, from a migration point of view, um, you know we've spent a lot of time in AWS designing a migration methodology. Our professional services team, let by Tom Weatherby is really delivering a playbook directly to our customers on how to migrate. And, also, we've certified over fifty consultant partners who are certified to do the migration. But all the migrations hinge on a customer knowing what they have and whether they want to migrate it. And, so, to necessarily know what you have, you have to go through application discovery. So, if you've got a larger server fleet, you've got four or five thousand instances, you have a thousand apps, you've actually got to discover and analyze what you have. And, clearly New Relic's tool is widely installed. So they actually have the visibility to a lot of the installed apps. So, last year, at the end of last year, we bought a Canadian company called TSO Logic. And TSO Logic is a business case tool from building the business case on whether to move an application running on PRIM. What would it look like on The Cloud? So, we need to have that data in the tool. And, so, New Relic's been a great partner, integrating New Relic into TSO Logic, so we cal actually take the instrument in visibility that New Relic brings to the table and pop it right into the tool. And, so, the New Relic, TSO tool integration is a great new mechanism that we have. And we just acquired TSO in Q1 of 2019. So that we're now giving the TSO tool to all of our solution architects and all of our consulting partners and New Relic feeds the data right into the TSO tool. So that's a huge, um, uh, mechanism for accelerating migration. >> Okay, uh, can, can you speak to, you know, how, are you, who and what customers and how are you targeting them, uh, for, for this solution? >> So, first of all, customer are moving to AWS. You know, thousand of enterprises are moving applications. I think you have to assume that most enterprises are moving to The Cloud. And the question is, "At what speed?" So, as our sales teams engage with the customer, the sales team have a notion to discuss migration we run migration methodology. And so, as we engage with the teams, the solution architect brings TSO to the tool, to the discussion. And that's happening all around the world. And we've trained our solution architects on TSO. And as we've done that, the second thing we've done is, you know, New Relic engineered engine marketplace over two years ago. But we've launched a new capability called Private Offers. And Private Offers is where the customer, while they're planning the migration, may also need to license more New Relic and New New Relic. And, so, how do we make licensing really easy? And, so, New Relic worked with us on, the, what we call the Private Offers Workflow. And that Private Offer Workflow allows a New Relic sales executive to generate the quote right in the marketplace portal. And you, an AWS customer, and you receive that private quotation right in your AWS account. So not only are we business casing on TSO, but New Relic is quoting through marketplace. So that's happening into lots of large customers. >> Stu: Yeah, uh, you know, what if you talk about the adoption of Cloud we need to make it simpler for customers to move those. And the financial piece has always been one of the promises of Cloud, but things like this Private Offer, it sounds like it helps accelerate, uh, that simplicity, and, and you know, reduces any, you know, perceived barriers there are between some of the software vendors and what you're offering. >> Dave: Well, it flows the New Relic software supply right through marketplace and more and more large companies are using marketplace for software supply. And, so, New Relic's in there. It means that our sales teams are working together So, we talked this morning at the conference with the VP of Cloud architecture who was in the conversation. And so, Chris has been working with the AWS team and with the New Relic team and we're joined at the hip as they expand their use of New Relic. And they announced this morning that they've now moved over thirty percent of all of the Cox application onto the AWS Cloud. And New Relic's been the center of that visibility. >> Stu: All right, so, Todd, a lot of announcements at the show, especially uh, you know, the capital p platform as Lou talked about in the keynote this morning. Well, you know, AWS is one of the largest platforms out there today. Help us understand how these fit together, both platforms as well as just, just the announcements in general as to how they work with AWS. >> Yeah, what every single thing we announced today had some sort of AWS tie to it. So, I mean first of all with New Relic, one, being a platform, it's open, connected, and, um, and, and programmable. And, so, the open part of that means that not only can we just inject data with New Relic agents, now we, we now are an observability platform that will take date from all kinds of sources, so think of what that opens up in working with AWS and AWS's other partners and getting data from a bunch of different sources, to then make the observability even better. We announce a log in solution. We're already connected with AWS, uh, cloud watch logs and, and, uh, working on some other new feature solutions in the log in space. And then from a programmability perspective, um, we can now take what we have, we can write all kinds of applications on top of the New Relic platform. And some of the initial couple of, of the dozen application that have already been opensource, one is a cost optimization play which looks at Amazon data, uh, both utilization performance data, some other sources of data that New Relic has, and then pulls in the Amazon cost data, can actually look at, in the New Relic platform, as a free opensource application, how do I optimize my cost in the AWS environment? And the second one, which we didn't talk about too much this morning but it's out there, but we can take some of VienMore data and some of the on PRIM data that we have visibility to today and help design that landing zone to help migrations do better, So, it's just two really quick examples of how we can take data from all these different sources and program it, write new applications on top of it, create an awesome customer use case and work with Amazon and, uh, help migrations and optimization along the way. >> Stu: All right, Dave, I'm wondering if you have any customer examples that might highlight some of the joint work that's being worked on between New Relic and AWS. >> Dave: Also, You Know, obviously I've just made some Cox We stood on stage this morning with the press where Cox has said that they've now got nine thousand work loads under New Relic visibility. And so that nine thousand work loads is across hundreds of development teams and, I think, Cox is just an illustration of many customers that we have in common. Um, you know, we're, AWS has got thousands of enterprises, so does New Relic. I think you've said you have over one hundred thousand five hundred enterprises using you. So, some large number. So there's a high overlap in many customers at this conference. And as we sat in the room this morning, um, I would say more than half the room held up their hands when I said, "Who in this room is using AWS?" Half of the audience here are AWS customers and New Relic customers. >> Todd: If I could maybe just add on the Cox story a little bit, because I've been very involved with that one. The beauty of the partnership we have there was multiple, on multiple phases. First, Cox has been a customer of ours for a number of years. Both on PRIM and in the cloud as they have accelerated their cloud, we've helped a lot with that. What was great about that partnership was that our field teams got together and, and actually really sat down and, and mapped out the migration, multiple migration scenarios. We had data on a bunch of on PRIM stuff that was valuable to AWS. AWS was the standard on a couple of divisions on cloud that we weren't monitoring all the applications there. So the teams really worked really well together and then at the end of the day, we came together and said, um, there's a bunch of benefits for the customer, for AWS and us, if the, if uh, if a transaction, the last transaction we did there, went though the marketplace, which was a significant transaction that we did with, ah, on the marketplace. So it was just such a win, win, win that tied together the, uh, all the aspects of the strategic nature-natureship, nature of our partnership. >> Stu: All right, so, you know, it's clear you're teams have been working close tother, iterating and adding a lot of the last kind of year, year or two or so. Give us a little bit look forward. What more should we expect of, a, from, from this partnership? >> Dave: So the area I think I would talk about next, that I think all customers are paying attention to, is spam management. So, you migrate your application to the cloud, you establish a could operating modem, um, we license out software through marketplace, you're now running it, at last week we have another product that I run called Service Catalog. And last week what we launched in Service Catalog was a new ability, and Service Catalog is a library of templates, so those templates are launched as Jason Templates using something called cloud formation and we've versioned the templates and what we launched last week was an integration between Service Catalog and another tool our customers have called AWS Budgets. So now what you actually want to do is you want to grant the team access to a resource and on the tag of the template, you actually want to give that resource template a budget. So that is actually under an API, so there's an AWS Budget API, there's a Service Catalog API, Lou's team today announced a whole raft of New Relic tools. But one of the things that they announced was the ability to essentially build these new widgets, using a React widget, and pull data from other sources. So that's the area some of the customers are looking at as far as taking your spam widget and connecting it into both AWS Budgets and Service Catalog. I don't know if you want to give us your thoughts on that. >> Todd: I, I already talked a little bit about it but it's, it's, it's where we can go. Like the future if almost, almost, uh, infinity right now. What we can go do together. We are trying to align to several of the programs Dave mentioned around Service Catalog, Migration Hub, focus on a couple different use cases of what, um, ever migration has a bunch of nuances and every optimization story has a bunch of nuances. But how can we create the right application, which are a starting point, opensource, put, put the repository up on get up and then allow customers and partners to go and fork that, do what they want to match, kind of of standard use case and maybe eighty percent of the way there. But then it needs a little but of tweak, a little bit of customization basesd on whatever that customer's situation is. We've enabled the entire, uh, community of millions apps that are going to migrate to the AWS cloud over the next couple of years. We've enabled that with what we've launched today. So, the, uh, the future is, is infinity and beyond. >> Stu: All right, well, Todd and Dave, thank you so much for the update. We look forward to seeing what gets announced at AWS Reinvent, which, of course, it'll be our seventh year of having theCube there. Big presence, uh, please reach out if you want to talk to us ahead of time. And check out theCube.net, of course, where you can see, uh, where we will be, including, of course, AWS Reinvent, uh, in December, uh, in Las Vegas. So, This is theCube at Future Stack 2019. I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCube.

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE here in Barcelona, Spain at the Fira, it's KubeCon + CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and my co-hosts for two days of live wall-to-wall coverage is Corey Quinn. Joining us back, we have two CUBE alums, Liz Rice, right to my right here who is a Technology Evangelist with Aqua security. Liz, thank you so much welcome back. >> Pleasure to be here. >> And Jeff Brewer, Vice President and Chief Architect, Small Business & Self-Employed Group, of Intuit. A CUBE alum since a few hours ago this morning. >> Yes, yes, thank you. >> Jeff, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> So, we've got you back with a different hat. Everybody in our industry can definitely recognize we wear lots of different hats we have lots of jobs thrown at us. Both of you are in the Technical Oversight Committee and Liz is not only a member but also the Chairperson, President. (people laughing) >> President is definitely a promotion. But, yeah, I'm Chair of the committee. >> Maybe, as it's known, the TOC. Liz, before we get there, your shirt says +1 binding. You have to explain for us and did not get a preview before the interview, so we'll see where this goes. >> It's one of the perks of being on the TOC. When we have something that comes to a vote we want to get input from the community so we ask anyone in the community to vote. But unless you're a member of the TOC your vote is non-binding. As a member of the committee, we have binding votes. And the traditional thing you write on the voting email is +1 binding. So, it's a nice surprise to get a t-shirt when I joined the TOC. >> Very nice. Can you just give us, our audience, that might not be familiar with the TOC, give us some of the key things about it. >> It's the Technical Oversight Committee for the CNCF. We are, really, the technical curation of the projects that come in to the CNCF. Which projects will get support and at what level because we have the sandbox experimentation stage then incubation and then finally graduation for the really established and kind of, de-risked projects. So, we're really evaluating the projects and kind of making a decision collaboratively on which ones we want the CNCF to support. >> All right. So Jeff, we had a great conversation with you about Intuit's cloud journey. Tell us how you got involved in the TOC. We always love the end users, not just using but participating in and helping to give some governance over what the community is doing. >> Yeah, so, about a year and a half ago we made a decision to acquire a small company called Applatix. Who was, actually, already in the end user community. And also contributors as well. Through that acquisition, I was part of that acquisition, I led that acquisition from the Intuit side and really got excited about the Kubernetes and the KubeCon story overall. Through the Kubernetes experts, I met them at a KubeCon and they introduced me to a whole lot more of the community. Just through some overall partnerships with AWS and also spending a lot of time with end-users that's how I really got to know the community a little bit. And then, was voted onto the CNCF as an end user representative in January. >> Wonderful. As far as you're concerned, as you go through this, do you find it challenging at times to separate your roles professionally from working for a large company, to whom many things matter incredibly. Again, as mentioned earlier, I am one of your customers. I care very much about technical excellence, coming out of Intuit, versus your involvement with the larger project. >> Yeah, so like most people in technology companies I'm extremely busy and I would love to spend, I would love to clone myself and spend more (laughing) more time. >> Everybody wants to submit a client project to the TOC we will prioritize that one. >> Exactly, exactly. >> The way I really balance it is that I make an explicit time carve out for those two activities. And most importantly, I attend the meetings. The TOC meetings that we have, those are extremely important. We get a lot of project reviews in those meetings. Liz chairs those meetings. That's where I always make sure that my schedule is cleared for that. >> Taking it, I guess, one step further. Do you find it challenging at all to separate out, in fact, when you're making decisions and making votes, for example, that are presumably binding, +1 binding as we've learned now, is the terminology. Do you find that you are often pulled between trying to advocate for your company and advocating for the community or are they invariably aligned in your mind? >> I mean, my job's the easiest because I come from an end user. So what I use and what I consume is likely what the community at large. There might be some niches and stuff like that. But I usually don't have that conflict. I don't know, as more of a vendor, you might have more of a conflict. >> It's something that I have be conscious of. I just try to mentally separate. I have a role with a company that pays my salary but when I'm doing open-source things if I feel conflicted about. This hasn't really come up yet, but if I do feel that there's some kind of conflict of interest I will always recuse myself. Actually, in my previous role, as the Co-Chair for the Program Committee for the KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Conference, on a couple of occasions we had competitors submit, and I would always just step back from those. Because it's the right thing to do. >> All right. So Liz, there's quite a few projects now, under the umbrella of CNCF. If I've go it right, it was like, 38 different ones. When Brian went on the stage this morning, 16 in the sandbox, 16 incubating and six have graduated now. How do you manage that? You know, there's some in the community they're like, oh my gosh, reminds us of like, big tent, from some initiatives. Some other things here, how much is too much? How do you balance that and what's the input of the TOC? >> Yeah, so one of the things that we're doing with the TOC is we've just established a thing called the SIGs, the special interest groups. Very much following the same model of Kubernetes SIGs. But the idea here is that we can, kind of formalize getting experts in the community to help us with particular kind of areas. So, we've already got a storage and security SIG set up. We expect there will be probably four to six more coming on board during the year. And that helps us with things like the project reviews and the due diligence to just be able to say, we would really appreciate some help. Those groups are also really enthusiastic about kind of sharing knowledge in the form of things like white papers. I think it will be really important for end-users to be able to navigate their way around these projects. Quite often there is more than one solution for a particular thing. And being able to, in a non-vendor way, in a neutral way, express why project X is good in one circumstance and project Y would be better in a different environment. There's work to be done there and I'm hoping to see that come out. >> This is one of my passions as the end user representative, is that trail map or that road map. That's one of the reasons why we really have invested at Intuit, in the Kubernetes technology and the Cloud Native technology. We didn't just roll them out as is. We actually curate them and create, really, a paved road for our developers to navigate that space. >> Yeah, and as we heard from your story it's not always, well, if there's some overlap you use SDO and Hellman. >> Yeah. >> That there's a fit for both of those in your environment, right. >> Yeah. >> From a, I guess, an end user perspective is there a waiting difference between someone like Intuit and someone like Twitter for pets, where there's a slight revenue scale, a slight revenue difference, like scale difference, like everything difference. >> Yes. >> Certainly, there is. I think that, but that's one of the beautiful things about the Cloud Native technologies. You can consume what you need and what you want, right. It's not one size fits all. A lot of people talk about, oh, there's a paradox of choice, there's so many projects, right. Actually, that's a benefit. Really, all you need is that road map to navigate your way through that, rather than just adopting a paved road that might not work for everybody. >> It almost feels, to some extent, almost like the AWS Service Catalog. Whenever you wind up looking at all the things they offer. It feels like going out to eat at the Cheesecake Factory. Where there is 80 pages of menu to flip through with some advertisements, great. And reminding yourself, at time, that they are not Pokemon, you do not need to catch them all. It's, sometimes, a necessary step, as you start to contextualize this. >> That's one of the great things about having over 80 members in the end user is. You can find a buddy, you can find a company like you. Talk to them, get connected with them and figure out what they're doing and learn from them. The community is broad enough to be able to do that. >> All right, so Liz, let's talk about security. >> Okay. (people laughing) >> You said there's a SIG that started up. Where are we, how are things going and you can you share about where we're going in the near future? >> The SIG came together from a group of people who really wanted to make it easier for end-users to roll out their Cloud Native stacks in a secure fashion. We don't always, as a community, speak the same language about security, we don't always have the most secure settings by default. They really came together around this common interest of just making it easier for people to secure. I think a big part of that will be looking at how the different projects, are they applying best practices from a security perspective? Is there more they should do to document how to operate their particular project more securely? I think that whole initiative and that group of people who've come together for SIG security, I'm so impressed and so pleased that they have come together with that enthusiasm to help on that front. >> Any commentary on what you're seeing in this space? >> Yeah, so as an almost, a fintech company, with a lot of fintech and, you know, we're not quite a bank, but we have a lot of the same security and compliance things. That SIG is so, so important to us. And having a roadmap. I found a education is really, really a big part of it of the security experts, right. Because this is somewhat newer technology. Even though it's been in use at Google for a long time the regulator's, the compliance people, don't totally understand it, right. So you have to have a way to explain to them what's going on. So things like, open policy agent, something that we've adopted, helps us explain what's going on in our system. Once they get it, they're like, this is awesome and our end users can now, really, our end users, meaning the people that use QuickBooks and TurboTax can really trust that we have those guardrails in place. >> At Aqua, it's a huge concern from a lot of our customers. Many of whom, coming from that kind of finance industry. That they're coming to us and saying, well, how can I be PCI compliant or GDPR. How do I manage these requirements with my container based stack, with my Cloud Native stack. That's why there is this huge ecosystem quite a lot of effort around security, compliance, policy. >> It feels very much like it's two problems rolled into one. First, how do you make sure that data is secure in these things? Secondly, how do you effectively and responsibly communicate that to a regulator, who expects to be taken on a tour of a data center when they show up on site? (people laughing) I checked, they won't let you. >> There are definitely two sets of security people in my experience. There are a set of people who care about how will I get attacked. How will breaches happen. And there are other people who go, I have a checklist and I need to check the boxes in the checklist, tell me how. Sometimes those two things overlap, but not always. >> All right, Liz, lot of updates, as always. Jeff, I really appreciate your commentary there. Well, there's the paradox of choice but we have a lot of customers out there and therefore we do. (people chuckling) Any highlights you want to share with our audience? >> I think one thing that happens every year is we see more. Well, we saw Kubernetes graduate, I think, early last year, end of the previous year. Now we've got six projects into graduation. From my perspective, that says something about how mature this whole set of projects, this whole platform is becoming. Because graduation is a pretty high bar. Not least in terms of the number of end users that have to be using it in production. This is solid technology. >> Yeah, any highlights from you? >> I think, like we might have touched on a little bit this morning. But I think that usually the technologies that where you're facing the big problems is pretty obvious which one to use, right. Like serverless, you're going to go look at something like Knative or whatnot. Functions as a service. There's some open fast projects, whatnot, like that. SDO services mesh is another one where it's getting mature and it's getting to the point where you can have these ubiquitous service meshes throughout it. So, those are the areas that we're most looking at right now. >> Great, all right. Well, Liz and Jeff, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for all the work you do on the Oversight Committee and appreciate you sharing the updates with our community. >> Thank you for having us. >> Thank you. >> For Cory Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back more, with theCUBE here at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(techno music) >> Announcer: Live, from the Moscone Center it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit, San Francisco 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in San Francisco, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. This is Amazon Web Services, AWS Summit 2018. We got two great guests, Dave McCann the vice president general manager of AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog and Matthew Scullion is a CEO of Matillion, partner of Marketplace. Guys thanks for coming on good to see you again >> Thank you. >> Thanks for havin' us. >> Alright, so Dave, Marketplace is doing phenomenal, well, we talked with Lew Cirne from New Relic at Reinvent, and was talking about how successful they've been on the Marketplace, so clearly it's working, 170 thousand active customers on stage, we saw the keynote today, What's going on with the Marketplace? Take a minute to explain how the Marketplace is set up now and how it's evolved to this point. >> Thank you, so, great to be back. Can't believe it's four months since Reinvent. So Marketplace is a digital library, of software. You know the cloud is helping our customers innovate faster but you need to be able to innovate with the software not just with the compute and the storage, and so our purpose is to stand up a digital library of software for our customers to subscribe and launch, and we're continuing to grow on multiple dimensions. We've deployed out to all the new standard regions, so we're now up in Korea, we're clearly in LHR so in all the standard regions we've fit Marketplace. And then we continue to expand the library of software, so more and more companies, like a Matillion, publish into the library. We're over 1,300 software companies now, and we're over 4,000 different software titles and you know, our customers show up, they're typically a developer or a manager, with a project with a budget, and they're looking for the best tool that they can keep the project going on schedule. >> And just to make clarification nuances, I know it's commercial and is there a public sector version or is it all one? >> That's a really good question. We actually launched Marketplace last August in our GovCloud Region, so we do actually operate a GovCloud Region for our US government customers and we actually offer a separate Marketplace for the US intelligence agencies. So that's the library of what were doing and we continue tho grow and as Werner said this morning, bunch of new stats. >> The business, the business model obviously people see, um, two things happening. I want to get your reaction to, one is Werner Vogels laid out how services are going to be laid out all over the place and it's not, you know, monolithic as he says. They're all a bunch of services. Scale is a huge factor in enabling that, and also the business model changes are going on, we're seeing people be successful. How are your customers and partners using Marketplace today, how does it work, I mean, do they just call up and say, "Hey! Dave I want to get in the Marketplace." I mean what, I mean, obviously downloading services, enabling services makes sense. How is it working? Like what do they do? Like what's the model? >> So, let's start from the customer and walk backwards. You know Amazon talks about working backwards from the customer. So typically in a company will be a set of developers who are building on us and they'll have a set of architects very often they've a few cloud architects and across the set of software, networking, security, database, dealer analytics, BI, DevOps, all the way to business apps. There'll be a set of architects saying, "What's the best software as we move to the cloud? "Do we bring what we had, or do we buy new?" So the architects are recommending to the developers, "Hey, for your project, here's a good tool." So in the buyer, architects are recommending, and then the developer gets told you can use these vendors. On the seller side of things, software companies like Matillion have to decide "How do we reach the AWS customer?" and then they have to package up their software, put it in our library, and make a bunch of decisions that he can talk about, and then they make it available. >> Yeah Dave it's been interesting to watch kind of the maturation in the Marketplace. It's been large for a number of years but how your partners have changed how they package software, last year there was a discussion that you know, it changed how billing is done, so that Amazon can help make it just seamless for customers, whether they buy service from, you know, AWS or beyond. You know, give us, you used to talk about the customer and the partner, walk us through a little bit of that maturation and how that's that's gone. >> So, we're a six year old service and so we you know we're agile, we keep releasing features. So last year in April, at San Francisco, with Splunk we launched something called SaaS Contracts, which was a new API for SaaS vendors and now we have over 300 SaaS companies in the last year that have developed to that API. So a software vendor can decide they want to deliver as a software package or as an AMI so it could be SaaS or AMI. And we also provision APIs. So we're constantly introducing flexibility on how that vendor can price and package and the more we innovate, the more software companies use our features. >> Yeah, I'm sure you get asked, you know, what's the concern, is there concern, from some of the SaaS players that, "Oh, I'm going to go in there, "I'm going to price and package the way Amazon does, "what's to stop them from just kind of "duplicating what I'm doing and becoming a competitor?" >> You know, that question comes up a lot, and you know look, the software industry is $550 billion. It's growing at 6% a year which is $30 billion and AWS all late last year did about $18 billion. So the software industry is growing by an AWS a year, and the reality is there's so much innovation going on that whatever innovation we're doing, you know, there's lots of room for other software vendors to innovate on top of our stack, 'cause we live in an expanding universe. >> Stu and I always joke, it's like so funny, we look at the, we watch all the cloud, of your competition, you Google Microsoft and Oracle, IBM, whatever, and they all quote numbers. If you factored in the ecosystem, in your number, the cloud revenues would be, I mean trillions. So you know, you guys I know you don't include that, in the numbers and like Microsoft does put Office in there, so it's kind of apples and oranges and so you know, Matthew I want to ask you, 'cause you're a partner. You're doing business on that, so, this is the formula we've been seeing that's been working where, the ecosystem growth, rising tide floats all boats, clearly that's Amazon's strategy. And they're opening up their platform to partners. So talk about what you guys are doing. First, take a minute to explain your company and then talk about your relationship to the Marketplace, and how that's working, and the relationship, how you make money, and the business model behind it. >> Yeah sure, and thanks for the question and for having me. So first of all Matillion, we're a software company, an ISV we make cloud-native data integration technology, purpose-built for this new generation of cloud data warehouses. For us that's Amazon Redshift, it's also Snowflake, and we sell both of those products on the AWS Marketplace, So customers are using us any time when they want to compete with data, so drive product development, or service their customers better, or in fact, become more efficient in the way they run their IT infrastructure. Perhaps migrating an on-premise warehouse into the cloud. So we developed that product through 2014-15, and we were looking for a route to market. Being honest, originally we were going to set it up as a SaaS business, and I saw a pitch from one of Dave's reports, a guy called Barry Russell, talking about AWS marketplace. We're like, okay here's a platform that's going to allow me to deliver my software anywhere in the world to any AWS customer pretty much instantly. More to the point, it's going to deliver my customer a really excellent experience around doing that, from a performance point of view, my software's going to go to go into their VPC sat right next to their data sources, in their Redshift cluster. From a security point of view, that question, very important in data integration, just taken totally off the table, so inside that firewall inside their VPC and of course super convenient and simple to buy. You just access AWS Marketplace, pay with Genuine Cloud Economics by the hour and stand it up pay a few AWS bills. So a really compelling way to deliver the software. >> Was there a technical integration required on your end? I mean like, there's some clients that are born in the cloud Amazon, some are, have built their own stuff. Do you have to, I mean, where are you guys fit into that? One, are you using Amazon? If not, was there any integration piece that you had to do? And if so, what was the level of work required to integrate? >> Yeah, and to be honest, I think this is, you know, the key question on how to be successful selling in this this kind of landscape of public cloud vendor marketplaces and, and the public cloud. So, I mean we're a born on AWS and in fact are born on AWS Marketplace products, and that intersection of product engineering with the route to market, and it's not just the software, it's also the things you surround it with, like great quality content, online support portals, videos, a really great launch experience, that means you're going to be clicked to running our software, commercial-grade ETL tool in under five minutes, free for the first 14 days and then by the hour billing, you know, there's a lot of different angles that go into that and you've absolutely got to be thinking about it. Other people are being successful just kind of sticking their products on the Marketplace and using it just as a billing mechanism but I think for us one of the reasons we've been able to drive great customer resonance and growth, is having that intersection of engineering, content and the Marketplace, together. >> Matthew I wanted have you talk to me a little bit about Matillion, 'cause when I think about kind of customer acquisition, you know Data Warehousing Market's been around for a long time. Redshift's been doing phenomenal, I mean for a while it was the largest, you know, fastest growing product in the AWS you know, portfolio. Being only through the Marketplace, does that, you know, how does that help you get customers, how do they learn about you? Do you ever worry about, like, oh well they just think I'm an Amazon service? Maybe that's a good thing. You know, I'm just curious about kind of that whole go-to-market and relationship with the customers being, you know, super tight, with AWS, you said Snowflake's in there too, so yeah, I'm just curious about that dynamic. >> Yeah, I mean the, the AWS only service thing that historically was a pro and a con. So back in the day we were just Redshift. We're now a couple of other data warehouses as well, you mentioned Snowflake, that's quite right. So that's allowed us to kind of move up the value chain with our customers and give them some choice, which they wanted. Yeah, I think in terms of the go-to-market economics, I mean, we all say this, sometimes its glib, here I think it's authentic. You want to start with what's best for the customer, right. And so we're delivering with genuine cloud economics. Our product starts at $1.37 an hour and yet it'll scale to the world's largest enterprises, and if they don't like it they can turn it off. Typical SaaS products, you're actually signing up for 12 months. So you're not that focused on keeping your customer happy for 11 of those months. Me, I need to keep that customer happy 100% of the time, because he can turn it off any time he likes. >> Yeah, yeah, I always wonder sometimes as an analyst, you know, should it be called a SaaS product if I'm signed into a year or multi-year contract. >> Yeah, so really interesting dynamic of our business is our entire revenue drops by 15% Saturday, Sunday, and it's cause people are turning off dev instances. They come back on Monday morning. Now, as a CEO I could worry about that and say, "Where's my 15% gone Saturday, Sunday?" Actually I'm delighted, 'cause it means my customers are only paying for value they're getting out of the product. >> And then, so about the business model, I wanted to drive into that. I want you to explain and give some color commentary to what your choice was if you didn't have the Marketplace. Hire a sales force? That's going to cost you some money. First you got to find people. >> Yeah. >> Push it to about a thousand customers, run ad campaign. Did you guys do the analysis and say, "Whoa, this is like A,B"? >> Well, so when we launched this product, we were a 12 man company, so I'm not going to say that we rolled in a management consultancy to work that stuff out for us, being honest. But we took a view. I think there have been two big things. First of all, in those very early days when you're trying to find some product market fit, you're trying to find some customers. That global reach instantly delivered by the Marketplace is amazing. So I'm from Manchester UK, apologies for the accent, that's where a good part of our business is still based, although we have offices now in New York and Denver and Seattle as well. If you drill a vertical hole downwards from Manchester, UK, you pop out in Melbourne, Australia that's the first customer we picked up on AWS Marketplace, still a customer today. So in those early guerrilla days, >> No travel, instant global footprint. >> And they were spending money with us before we spoke to them for the first time as well. Now today, we do have a sales force, of course, but it's not a sales force that's closing big deals. They're being value-added, and additive, they are escorting customers through the buying journey, and we've got just as many pre-sales guys as we have sales guys just helping the customer 'cause that's what we want to do. They're going to use the products and consume it 'cause it's easy to do and to turn it off. >> So you focus the high-value activities with the high value employees on the right customer mix, while the rest is just kind of working through the cloud economics. >> Yeah, that's it. Hey, we have to do marketing, of course. We're here doing an event, it's going great. We were lucky enough to be mentioned in the, in the keynote this morning, so our booth's been swamped, >> And now you're on theCUBE, you're a CUBE alumni. >> Exactly. >> The world's going to see, going public next. >> One of the things we do on the marketing front, is when you come into Marketplace and you talk about how we onboard a seller, we have a whole team who we call category managers and so there's an expert over each subject area such as data analytics or networking or security and we not only give them the engineering advice on how to package, on how to onboard and by the way we didn't curate manage so we publish his AMI and he tells us what regions he wants it to go to. And so he may say, clone to Korea, but I don't want it over here, so the seller could decide geography but then we lay on a business go-to-market plan and we actually develop a joint go-to-market. And so we'll do co-marketing with our sellers, and they can choose whether it's by country, by territory, is it large enterprise, is it small business. So there's a set of business advice that we lend. >> So you apply some best practices and some market intelligence on the portfolio side. >> Exactly. >> And the sector. And then we have all the data right? We provide these guys with a real time API they're pulling data off the API every day and what's happening, and so were monitoring that data and everything's measured so this is a digital channel. And then of course the ultimate thing we do when I ran my last SaaS company, we provide the billing platform. And so the buyer comes in on the AWS account, uses the AWS account, so now we bill on behalf of, we do the collection from the buyer, and then we disperse the funds back to the vendor. >> You're making the market for 'em, and they're still doing their blocking and tackling. >> The customer gets a really good experience on their bill and then the customer spend actually becomes visible in Cost Explorer, so we've tagged everything, so we also tagged it so that it's "this is Matillion", and so the customer knows "I'm spending X much on, "X amount of dollars on Matillion on that stack." >> So you're a sales channel and you're adding more value, Matthew, if someone asks you, just say I say, "Hey Matthew, look I got a great product and it's kickin' ass, I want to get into Marketplace" what do I do, what advice would you give me, what would you say? "Oh, I'm skeptical of Amazon's Marketplace" or, "Hey, I really want it". How would you talk to those two tubes of audiences? >> Yeah, so I think the first thing, and we alluded to it earlier, is I think really hard about that 360 experience of packaging the product and how it's launched, that's engineering in the software itself. You need to think about how the customer's going to interact with it, but you also need to clothe that software with great quality content and support, and finally the right type of go-to-market motion around that. And one of the big benefits for us in terms of the AWS Marketplace has been the efficiency of the sales model. So we've got really efficient go-to-market economics and also the types of customers that we sell to and we've, for a company of our stage, you know, we're a post series B, high-growth software company, but for a company of that stage, we are, have a disproportionately high number of global 8,000 global 2,000 customers, that are because Marketplace takes away the barrier of selling into those guys. So as advice on how to be successful, I'd focus on that packaging side and advice as to why to do it, you've got instant worldwide reach into the traditional stomping ground of the the startup other tech vendors but also into the world's biggest software users. >> A virtuous circle, faster to the customers, at a lower cost structure, you still make money, everyone's happy, sounds like a, the Amazon business model. >> It is. >> Great customer experience, great selection, and you know, adoption by the customer, and then continued innovation. Another thing that we do is we have a portal where these guys are publishing new versions, so it's not a one-and-done model. So as these guys update their models, their engineers just publish into seller portal and then that new version comes in, and then we publish that new version out to the customer. So there's a refreshing of the AMI so the latest version is up there. >> And Werner's keynote today really highlighted it's not just about developers anymore, it's about the business teams coming together, pushing stuff real time to the Marketplace is now a business ops model and it's really kind of coming together with entrepreneurial traction and the footprint's a gateway to the world. You have a world footprint. >> Yes, it's 21st century software distribution and really the buyer gets the ultimate choice and you know the buyer can go for an annual contract or for by the hour, so economically, lots of choice. >> Alright, so I'll put you on the spot to end this segment. I'll be a naysayer. Dave you got competition out there, what, what's in it for me? How do you compare vis-a-vis the competition? >> Dave: You're a software vendor? >> Yeah. >> As, you're playin' the persona? >> Yeah, I'm a software guy, I'm looking at marketplaces, you know, why you guys? >> You know, you have to go where the customer is, ultimately you have to decide who your customer is. You know, Werner talked this morning about the tens of thousands of companies that are up on AWS, and so, if I've got 170 thousand buyers showing up on my marketplace, and they're intentional on their budget, and you're a software vendor you get reach, and given what Gartner says on where we are, on fulfilling share in cloud, is where the customer is. >> And if you're a service too, software service APIs, it's even better goodness there. >> Yeah we have thousands of consulting partners also use Marketplace as a library so if you're an SI, and we have tens of thousands of SIs, those SIs also view Marketplace as a good place to find software for the project. >> You've been in this business for a while. I mean, we've always talked about this on theCUBE, I want to ask you real quick, I mean more than ever now, ecosystems and communities are paramount, priority. Especially with this kind of dynamic 'cause that ecosystem is that fabric to enable, you know, go-to-markets that are seamless with economic scale, visibility into the numbers, what's your reaction when someone says that comment to you about community and an ecosystem? >> Well you know, an ecosystem is a collection of software companies that inter-operate. And the reality is that our customers are rewriting all the software. The world is rewriting its software portfolio. You know, a large customer I went to see recently has a thousand software applications. Now as they move them all to the cloud, they're either rewriting or they're modernizing, but as they rewrite them, they're going to use distributed services, they're going to use micro-services. And so they're refreshing their entire stack. >> Yeah, it's a re-platforming of the internet. >> Transformational. >> Dave McCann, who runs the Marketplace for AWS. Really kickin' butt out there. Congratulations on all your success, and I know there's a lot more to do, I wish we had more time, I'd love to do a follow-up with you and find out what's going on the Marketplace. and Matthew a partner, congratulations, hyper-growth, hittin' that trajectory. Congratulations, we'll come visit you in Manchester and then we'll drill a hole, we'll go to Melbourne right down there. Appreciate, thanks for coming on theCUBE, thanks. >> Thank you. >> I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman. More live coverage after this short break. We are in San Francisco, live for AWS Summit 2018. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering ServiceNow Knowledge17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> We're back in Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We're here at Knowledge17. I'm Dave Vellante, with my cohost Jeff Frick. Donna Woodruff is here, she's the service enablement leader at Cox Automotive. Donna, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Hi, thank you for having me. >> Good to see you, you're welcome. Tell us a little bit about Cox Automotive, and specifically your role. Are you an IT practitioner by trade, or business process person? Share with us. >> A little bit of everything, actually. First of all, Cox Automotive is a large, privately-held organization that's part of the Cox Enterprises family. We are changing the way the world buys, sells, and owns vehicles. We are made up of five key solution group areas. Everything from inventory solutions, which includes our auto auctions, and everything to get cars from dealerships to our auctions and back out again for their inventory. We have financial services, which provides floor planning to our dealerships so they can buy cars from our auctions. We have media services, which are all about how do you connect the cars that you're selling to retail customers, so autotrader.com, Kelley Blue Book are some notable brands as part of our organization. We develop software around analytics, and an ERP system for dealerships, to help them move their inventory and do their floor planning, so they can maximize sales in their dealerships. And then of course we have international. We are a global company. We have over 34,000 team members that we support. We're a very heterogeneous organization, and that can drive complexity into the organization. My role is, I am the service enablement leader. I am based out of technology, but I look at my role as much broader than that. It's about solving problems for our business and being able to deliver services internally and externally, and help the organization run more efficient and effectively. >> So you've seen, you know, the narrative in IT, and ServiceNow's described that very well over the years, IT getting beat up, and you only call IT when there's a problem, and obviously the platform and the adoption of that have changed a lot of organizations, presumably you experience something similar. So, take us back to the beginning days, the early days of what it was like, the before and after ServiceNow. What led you to that decision? What were some of the drivers, how'd you get there? >> Absolutely. Well, Kelley Blue Book was an acquisition for Autotrader group of companies about four or five years ago, and they had implemented ServiceNow as a help desk ticketing system. When we acquired them, we saw some great wins with the platform that we thought, hey, this really should be our help desk ticketing system. And so it brought under cross that small group of companies, but it was always viewed as a help desk ticketing system. Over time, just like many other platforms, it starts to get highly customized. Fast-forward to a couple of years ago, we had a need. I was supporting HR and communications from a technology liaison perspective. The problem that they were trying to solve was that they have two employee service centers, one on the East Coast, one on the West Coast, that were staffed by analysts, and they primarily helped our auto auction personnel deal with their benefits and questions around just HR. All the way down to time sheet corrections and things like that. They came to me with this problem, and they said, "You know, we've been using Remedy to some extent." We were in a transitional time in the organization where we were collapsing our help desk tools onto ServiceNow, and they said, "We need some help, here." "We just want to do a few requests." Well, we identified early on as that liaison that I really think that this ticketing platform can do what you need it do. Myself along with a business analyst and an intern sat down with the business, we understood the requirements, and that was the launch of our HR portal. While we were in there-- >> Just you, an analyst, and an intern. >> That's correct. That's correct. And we weren't developers. It was all about configuration. But we understood the tool, we understand that this is really no different than any other business process, and we set out to deliver the first service catalog around HR services. Since then, we haven't looked back. We learned a lot about the platform. We diagrammed out what was wrong with how the service desk had been highly customized, we sat down with our VP and we just showed him the diagram and said, "We think that this platform can do a lot more." He listened to us, and he turned to us, and he said, "Well, do you guys want the platform?" And I turned to my team, and I said, "Do you guys want it?" We took it on, and since then, in the last 18 months, we have expanded the platform very broadly. We've implemented performance analytics to improve our help desk services. Beyond the HR portal, we are now implementing governance risk compliance, a vulnerability management. We're now doing PPM as well. We are re-looking at our CMDB because we want to do more with automation. We've done some orchestration with storage agility and how we can get those engineers more productive by doing zero-touch ticket requests from our developers to expand file shares and to sunset file shares, or to request new file shares with other applications. >> So what'd you do with all the custom mods, when you talked about the Kelley Blue Book coming over. Did you sort of scrub the hose and start over, or-- >> Well, you know what, we took it back to out of the box, and it wasn't difficult to do. We just rationalized the things that were duplicated across requests and incident, we pulled it back to out of the box, we took an agile approach. My team now is very agile. We do weekly releases on the platform. By bringing it back to out of the box, it allows us to upgrade to the latest major feature releases within a two-week period. Because of that, we're able to adopt and consume the new product enhancements that ServiceNow has to offer very, very quickly. >> So, obviously you had success, or you wouldn't have been able to expand the footprint so radically. How are you measuring success, how did you go from a little bitty thing to a very large thing? >> I think it's about visibility. Visibility and strong leadership support, and showing how we're getting better incrementally over time. I think one of the strategic things that we've done, probably in the last six months, is implement performance analytics, which that started to show the behaviors of how people were working within the platform, how they were addressing incidents, how they were responding to our mean time to response, to our mean time to closure of a ticket, the aging of these tickets. When we first implemented performance analytics, we found a lot of anomalies in the platform. We found orphaned assignment groups, which to the behavior of the organization, they weren't necessarily working the system the way they should be. >> Jeff: Orphaned assignment groups. >> Orphaned assignment groups. Tickets were going in and they were backing up, and nobody was working them. So, allowed us to change the behavior of the organization, to drive consistency in how they were using this, which then made the metrics more meaningful. Now people are running their areas of operation from the platform. >> So the next thing I got to ask you, we talked about it in the open, is behavior. Tech's hard, but it's not that hard compared to people and process. How did you get people at that moment of truth, when I need something, to not send an email like I'm used to, and to actually execute my work through this tool? >> Well, one thing we did that was very unique, and we've continued to do that is as we roll out major feature functionality, we actually create commercials about ServiceNow, about the platform. Internally, we call it Service Station. Everything is associated with a vehicle. We've promoted our brand around the platform as well, and our brand is about doing things more simply, getting things routed to the right people, that's why it's better than email, and demonstrating the power of what it will do to you, and getting those answers more quickly instead of going to your favorite IT person or your favorite HR person. How this platform is helping you get to your answers more quickly, as well as all the self-service capabilities and the knowledge articles around, hey, fix it yourself. You don't have to talk to somebody on the phone. But we still give that personalized touch if they really need help and they want to talk to an individual. >> So really, a lot more carrots than sticks. >> Lot more carrots than sticks, absolutely. It's if you can solve your problem faster, why not? 'Cause at the end of the day, that's ultimately what you want to do. Solve your problem, and get on to the rest of your day. >> How long does it take for a typical employee to go, "Ah, this is fantastic!", and to really shift their behavior and buy in and start selling it, as your advocate? >> I think we're doing a better job now, introducing it to our new hires as soon as they get engaged in the organization, about this is your platform to go to when and if you need help. And here's how easy it is to find the things that you need. It's something that just happens over time, and I think if you address some of those small wins, you create advocates in the organization, and when they have a good experience, they tell others. So some of it's word-of-mouth, some of it is internal promotion. A big part of it is leveraging the platform to get the work done and having a great user experience along the way. >> Donna, you mentioned Service Catalog and CMDB, these are consistently two components that allow customers like you to get more leverage out of the ServiceNow platform. So, specifically as it relates to CMDB, what are you doing there? Do you have a single CMDB across the organization? Is that something you're considering? >> That's probably one of our next big transformational areas. We do have a CMDB within the platform that's been used primarily around the linkages for incident, problem, and change management. But we know that we need to do more with it, and like I said before, we've grown through acquisition, so there's a number of other CMDBs. And we are in the process of bringing that all together onto the ServiceNow platform. Because we're seeing the power of everything else that that connects to. And that's also going to be a key on how we promote more orchestration, more automation, more about the health of our services. >> So, ServiceNow's obviously promoting you guys throughout this event, showcasing some of the things that you've been doing. What've you been talking to other customers about? What are you most proud of? >> Honestly, I'm really proud of my team (laughs), because we are responding to the needs of the organization, and the fact that you can add value through what you do on a day-to-day basis is great. I think one of the most unique things that, in terms of the application, is we actually built an application for our safety auctions. So, as you can imagine, we have a hundred auctions. There's a lot of people working in the auctions. We have everything that a dealership would have, and we have lanes of vehicles running through to be auctioned off with our dealerships. So we have service areas, we have vehicles and people moving about the auction. So safety is a very critical thing for our organization. About a year ago, the safety director came and said, "You know, we have this problem. "We are doing these auctions' safety checklist "around compliance, how can we make "our auctions a safer place?" "You know, we don't have a lot of money, "but we think there's a better way to do it." And they explained the process where they had six area safety managers that were distributed across these hundred auctions, and trying to get the safety message out there through making sure people were wearing their goggles, or that they had all the appropriate OSHA standards in place. So after having a lot of conversations around this, again, we found ServiceNow would be a great solution. We did work with a partner to help us build it, but we took a very manual process and we automated it on the platform. Now we've moved the safety business process to the auctions themselves, where they own it. The general manager's involved, the shop leads are involved in it. And what it's done, it's been a catalyst to reducing our workers' comp claims. We've seen a two basis point improvement over the number of workers' comp claims, which is cost-avoidance, you know. When your average worker comp claim can be around $10,000, that's a significant saving. With a very, very small investment, we saw a 3,000% ROI on this initiative alone. We're bringing visibility to the process, using the platform and the reporting capabilities. It's gotten the general managers and the shop leads engaged and having the conversation about safety. >> This is great, 'cause you got the platform piece of it, and went from basic application delivery to seeing that it is just a workflow tool. >> Donna: Exactly. >> And the benefit of the automation, and now applying it to, I don't think they announced a auto auction safety module this morning. >> No. (laughing) >> Not yet, but we are doing a session... (Donna laughs) >> It's pretty impactful that you were able to see that, execute it with a really small investment, like you said, your initial one with you, an analyst and an intern, and now, really grow and expand the footprint within the organization. >> Yeah, it's really just about business processes in general. You've got everything you need to collect some attributes, or some information, you need to route it or get approvals around it, and then you can measure it. And you can see what's going on with that business process, and then you focus on, how do we improve the business process? The tool helps enable that and facilitate that. >> And how has the conversation around IT value changed, since you started this journey, right? >> Yeah. >> It used to be very cost-focused, I'm sure. Has it evolved to more of a, you mentioned ROI? >> It is, look at it, it's still cost-focused. It's still about savings, but it's also about how do we get things done in an organization more efficiently, with less people pushing paper, and actually focused on solving problems. And being able to measure how we get better in the activities that we're supporting. And then the dollars will follow. >> Dave: Is there a recognition in the business units, that things are changing? >> You know, there really is. One of the areas that we're starting to see real recognition is we're now dipping our toe into customer service management. We brought two platforms together with one of our business units that we acquired in the last year. They were doing some things on Zendesk, they were doing some things on another tool, and they were the same team. So, we've taken that experience, we've brought those agents onto the platform. We didn't change the experience for the customer just yet, because we wanted our agents to be very successful and help them work differently than through email. We pull those channels onto the platform, and now they have a dashboard of these issues in supporting our lenders, who are our customers. Next is really around the portal, in changing the experience for those end customers. Moving it out of the reply to all with email and making it more measurable. We've gotten halfway there, and we see a big growth area there for us, and making a better experience around our customers' support. >> And are you sunsetting some of these other systems as you bring stuff in? >> We absolutely are. I mean, our goal is to eliminate all other ticketing-type systems. In fact, all of the people that are on those ticketing systems, like, "When can we get on the platform?" "We want to be there now." "Help us get there." But bringing things together is going to help us across all of our functional areas, in supporting our customers and our team members much more effectively. It really is becoming our system of action, where you go to get things done. >> Donna, what, from your perspective, is on ServiceNow's to-do list? >> ServiceNow's to-do list. You know, and I've been pretty vocal with ServiceNow, it's like, make it easier for us to use and consume the other capabilities of the platform much more quickly. Allow us to use the great capabilities with some of our external collaborators a little bit more effectively. And I think that's where it is. I think ServiceNow does a fantastic job of bringing more capabilities and maturing all of their service areas. I like the fact that they have two major feature releases a year, and we consume them as quickly as they can send them out, probably faster than some other customers do. And continue to listen to your customers. Just, listen to what our problems are, and our needs are, and continue to answer them. They're doing a good job of that. >> Well, Donna, I have to say thanks for all the great products you guys build. The Kelley Blue Book, we've used it for years-- >> Oh, wonderful! >> And Autotrader, it's a great way to shop for vehicles. So thanks for that! >> You're welcome! >> Dave: Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for sharing your story. >> Keep it right there, everybody. Jeff and I will be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17. We'll be right back. (energetic music)

(upbeat music) >> Commentator: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Knowledge17. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm with my co-host Jeff Frick at our fifth Knowledge. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. Seneca Louck is here, he's the Business Process Lead at Dow Chemical. A relatively new ServiceNow customer. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you guys. >> Thanks for having me. >> So you said this is your second Knowledge. >> Seneca: It is. >> And, well how do you like Orlando? >> I like it, I like it. I'm here, in Venetian, >> Sunny? >> for next year, and so I'm a Vegas guy, so I'll be happy to get back there, but Orlando's nice. >> Dave: Where's home for you? >> Originally from New Jersey. Worked in Philadelphia for 15 years and relocated to Midland, Michigan, where Dow Chemical's headquartered. >> Dave: Fantastic, ah it's great, great country, Michigan. >> Absolutely. >> So, take us through your role, start there. What do you do, >> Sure. >> at Dow Chemical? >> So, I'm a Business Process Lead for Enterprise Service Management. We could go down the ITSM route, or we can go down the BSM route and we said, "Why pick one?" Enterprise Systems Management used to be the name. We actually elevated it up, Enterprise Service Management. We're the IT Operability focus on the end. >> Okay, and you said you went live, with ServiceNow, June last year? >> June 11th last year, we started with Incident Problem Change Config. We did Change Management, sorry, a month later. And then we did Service Request catalog, rolled out for the whole rest of the year. >> How long did it take you from sort of, when you said, "All right, we're doing this. "Start the project." To actually get, you know, MVP out? >> The cake. >> Yeah, the cake. (laughs) >> To get to the cake. >> And MVP's a really important thing. Minimum Viable Product. It was a hard lesson for us to learn. Quickly we realized that we're not going to be able to do everything we want to do in a first shot. So, we did focus very heavily on MVP. ServiceNow was good enough to make sure that they bred that into us, the importance of that. And so, we started in October, with workshops. We spent probably the first four or five months before we wrote one single line of code or configured one thing in ServiceNow. You know, a lot of that work was As-Is Process. Document it, understand it, uplift it, figure out what we want that To-Be Process to look like, and then figure out how the tool's going to deliver against that. >> Did you do some of that, I mean much of that came as part of the business case, and then you just refined it, is that right? >> The business case was really more on the value side. We didn't get into the specifics around process. We had a high level idea what we wanted to do strategically. Right? >> Yeah. >> Our guiding principles were really, Industry Best Practice, we like to think we're special. But really, the industry should know. Out of the box, ServiceNow, whenever possible. And to be honest, the out-of-the-box ServiceNow should reflect Industry Best Practice fairly well. And so that was kind of the coming in position for us. We deviated only when absolutely necessary and we really tried to stick to vanilla. >> So you minimized custom mods? >> Seneca: We really tried to do that, yes. There's times where we had to deviate of course. But we really wanted to look to see if ServiceNow had an answer, and if we could tweak what was already there, then great. There's only a handful of opportunities where we had to build something net new. >> And was that related to your ERP, or when did you have to build those custom mods? >> So, in places where we might have a concept that was to bring Legacy capability from a previous system. We knew we weren't going to cut and run from the old to the new. We had to kind of pull on some of the capabilities of that platform. So, the way you guys do category, sub-category, we did through classification. And so we had to customize a couple of tables to bring classifications over to bridge that gap. >> I see, okay, and then, so then you go live. Now was it a CMDB, a single CMDB across the organization? >> So, we have HP technology, where we had large investment. We wanted to keep that for discovery purposes and it enabled us to build one big tunnel between our CMDB and ServiceNow, so it made the integration go very easily. So, we really did two key integrations, a CMDB integration and an LDAP one to get our people data. Once that was done, we were on our feet, we were stood up and we were ready to start delivering processes. >> And the Service Catalog? >> Service Catalog was an interesting one because we had it spread out in a bunch of places. We had web forums, where somebody had customized a small, little web forum that that was actually making calls into our ticketing system to create service requests. We also had Request Center, which was brought in to try and solve that world of Service Request Management, but it only did it for Service Request. And we realize ServiceNow is going to do it end-to-end. >> Seneca, when you're thinking about your investments. I like to look at 'em as you get investments to run the business, some to grow the business and some to transform the business. And you're really sort of an IT-transform expert. How do you allocate that? Are those mutually exclusive? Do they sort of blend into each other and how much of your investment is transformation, and what does that all mean? >> Yeah, so it's tough because you've got guys that are on the run side, and I actually spent the large majority of my career on the run side. So, I know what if feels like to be accountable for everything in production, regardless of how it got there. And so, I kind of oscillate back and forth. Right? If the hair's on fire and these guys are going to be dead by the time the project transforms next year's capability, there's no point in us waiting. We can't wait. So, we're bouncing in and out of transformation and dealing with, making sure operability can happen effectively, efficiently, and that these guys are around next year, and alive and well, so that we can deliver that transformational capability. >> You talked about MVP being kind of a new concept. I wonder if you could dig into that a little bit further. >> Sure, sure. >> Is that not kind of a process or methodology that you guys have done in the past, or was it a learning curve? >> So, it was a little bit of a learning curve. So, typically you know, we delivered the biggest SAP implementation in the history of the world. A billion dollars, 800 SAP systems. And it took us seven years. So, we didn't think a lot about MVP, we wanted perfection. And so we made sure that we got it. And it cost us dearly. But in the end, the results were good. In this case, we had to move fast. Right? We weren't going to be able to do it all. We knew the capabilities that you see, throughout this room, are incredible. We want to get to them. But we've got to get on to the platform first. And so, we really did hone in on trying to find, what is the minimum product that we need to get people moved over to the platform, and we'll increment from there. So, it was a little bit of a learning for us. It was a little bit of a culture change. And we kind of found that sweet spot between Agile and Waterfall, which I think we called it Wagile, or (laughs). Yeah, Wagile I think, >> Well, right. >> is the name. >> I mean your implementation >> coincided with the sort of DevOps craze, and Agile, but there's >> That's right, that's right. >> a place for Waterfall, right? >> There is, there is. >> Sometimes, you need >> that perfection. Other times, you need to break stuff and iterate. >> Absolutely. >> But so, that's interesting. You said you came up with sort of a hybrid. Sometimes, hybrids are scary. So, how did you sort of come to that point and how's it workin' for you? >> Yeah, so what we did is we front-ended a lot of the requirements. We spent, like I said, several months, just sitting and doing requirements. And then, we transitioned into two-week sprints. And we pulled out of the backlog, the requirements that we had captured in those months previous. So, that was kind of how we blended the two together. We're more a Waterfall shop but we were delivering a system of record. And so, in systems of record, we strongly believe that Agile can be dangerous. It's not necessarily the place to start. And so, we started with Waterfall, and we kind of ended with Agile. >> All right, okay, and so, what so far have been the sort of business impacts? Can you share that with us? >> Yeah absolutely, so first thing's first, we're getting consistency throughout our processes. So, many times, geographical differences or even within a geography, at a sub-activity level, people were doing things differently. So, first thing we had to do was Standardize Process. That gives us the ability to measure across the world, how that process is being executed. Whereas before, we couldn't do that one-for-one, we couldn't compare these things one-for-one. And so, now we have that vision, now we have that visibility, and we were a performance analytics customer from day one, so we started capturing data to baseline, to benchmark, from Go Live, until today, and we've got incredible data to go back then and do the continuous service improvement. >> And how much of the consistency and process was forced in your pre-deployment activities, where you kind of find, all right, we got to sit down and actually document this to put it into the system. Versus, now that you've got this tool in place, that you see the opportunity to continue to go after new processes. >> It varied, dependent upon area, so Change Management was actually not a bad process from a global perspective. On the flip side is, we actually implemented some case management capability for our Business Functions. Their processes were extremely deviated across geographies, across activities. And so it depends, but the bottom line is that before we talk about implementing on this platform, we got to talk standardization. Good news is the incident problem changed. It wasn't as much work. On the Business Process side, it was a lot more. >> How are you predominantly measured? Is it getting stuff done? Are there other sort of KPI's that you focus on? Is there one that you try to optimize? >> So, these days, we're actually operating in a little bit of a dangerous place because we're going through so much mergers and acquisition activity, that our success is, can we integrate a company in less than a year while we go on to do the biggest chemical merger in the history of the world? So, typically, we would be kind of looking at metrics, and KPI's, down at the process level. Right now, we're looking at, can I actually bring these companies together? So it's integrated. >> And not kill each other. >> And not kill each other. (laughs) That's right. That's not to say we're not doing the latter as well but I think we have to start with, can we get the big activities done so that we can figure out how to do the process improvement. >> Dave: Right. How about the show for you here? What's it been like? What are you learning? >> Yeah, so. >> Are you sharing? >> Dx Continuum I think is going to be the theme that I'm going to leave here thinking, wow, these guys did the right thing with that purchase. So, you know the artificial intelligence, the machine learning, the data lakes, that we're going to be able to take all this data that we have and pump it out to you guys. And you're going to turn around and tell us an interesting story. You're going to tell me the questions that I would never even think to ask because you're going to be able to see into that data in ways that we never even dreamed possible. So, that's the big one for me. I've heard some rumors of some other things coming, but I shouldn't know about those and so I'm not going to say anything at this point. But right now, it's about the machine learning, the artificial intelligence. >> So, what other, I mean 'cause a company the size of Dow must be doing some interesting things with Big Data and Hadoop and AI. How does what you're doing or does what you're doing with ServiceNow relate to those sort of other activities? Is there sort of a data platform strategy? >> It's an interesting question. It's something that we're actually struggling with a little bit to figure out what that strategy is going to be. I don't think the larger organization expected so many opportunities to use analytics and to use machine learning against data sets that otherwise were, this is operation stuff, for the most part, right? We're starting to get into the business side a little bit but really, we were focused on running the business from an operations perspective. And so, all of a sudden, now, we're getting attention that we wouldn't have had otherwise, from the big players, you know. The SAP Business Warehouse, Business Intelligence guys. They've got 120 people delivering their reporting service. I got a guy half-time, that's helping me with my PA reports and we've got to figure out a way to either join our strategies together or at least meet in the middle because there's data that we probably want to share from each other. >> Do you have a Chief Data Officer on staff? >> We do not, that I'm aware of, actually. But I think it is , it's a very powerful role, but in our SAP world, they kind of act as that defacto person within our organization. But they're not very interested in what we're doing yet but they are starting to get the attention of us. >> It's interesting 'cause we talk a lot about IoT Now will bridge, you know, kind of the IT and the Ops folks. And it sounds like you're having that experience really specifically built around some of the processes that you're delivering in ServiceNow. To bring those two world together. >> Yeah, so while I mentioned machine learning and Artificial Intellience, that's actually right there, second on my list. The thing I came here last year and raised my hands and said I need the most is I need the ability to bring massive amounts of data onto this platform. Raw performance data, network data, server data, utilization data, end-user data. I want to be able to bring it into this platform so that I can use it to correlate events and incidents and problems. And so, the things that you guys are doing for IoT, to bring massive data sets in, are actually going to solve my problem, but I don't think it was necessarily what you were trying to solve. But I'm very happy for that. >> So, by the way, we're independent media, so we're (laughs) like third-party guys. >> Understood, understood >> It's these guys, ServiceNow. So, we just sort of unpack, analyze. What about if you had to do it again. What would you do differently? Obviously you would have, and you did, you embraced the MVP, other things? >> So, we took a very dangerous route in that we didn't have a team built. We didn't have a competency built. We took a system integrator and we went off and we went hog wild and we implemented it quickly, while we built the team, while we built the governance, while we built the competency center. If I could do it again, I'd have that team ready, staffed, you know, well-trained up front, so that we could learn as we went, a little bit more, be a little more autonomous and self-sufficient. >> Were you one of the 100 customers that John Donahoe met with in 45 days? >> I was not actually. >> And if you weren't, then what would you tell him in terms of the piece that he said, "What can we do better?" What would you? >> Yeah. >> So, the question came up yesterday, around releases. You know, should we do more, should we do less. I mean, we're actually struggling a little bit to keep up with the two releases per year. So, the biggest thing that I see is not making it a wholesale upgrade. If I could take parts and pieces from the new capabilities that are coming without having to go through the full upgrade cycle, you know, I think that would be huge for me. So that we don't have to spend a couple of months or we're hoping to get that down to one month. But this is our first one in production. So, we're going to spend three months getting this upgrade right. We're hoping to get it down to, you know, a couple of weeks to a month. But if I can take pieces and parts of the capability that's being delivered, and not have to take it wholesale, that would be the thing. >> Yeah, so that's interesting because Multi-instance is nice. You don't have to go on the SaaS player's schedule. But you want to keep current, you know, for a lot of reasons, with maybe, with certain parts of the upgrade. Yeah, okay, that doesn't sound trivial. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's not. >> Although I know they're thinking about it so it's come up, I've heard a couple of people at least mention that it's something that they have to think about. They may not actually go that direction. But at least that they're thinking about it, that tells me that they're exploring other avenues to deliver capability. >> Dave: What's in the future for you guys? Where do you want to take this thing? >> Yeah, so our next big thing's going to be Event Management. So, we've got 45 different tools that are doing monitoring from purchase tools to somebody's script that's sitting on the mainframe that sends us an event, when some exception happens. And so we've built, you know, with a custom IT process automation tool, our Event Management framework. And it's integrated with ServiceNow. But at the heart of it is, there's some old technology, decade-old technology, that was my first entry into IT process automation. And so, as the person who built it, I'm going to be the one that ultimately unplugs it and hands it over to ServiceNow. So, for us, that's the next step for what we're going to do. >> Awesome, well listen, Seneca, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great to have you. Loved the knowledge. >> Thanks for having us. >> Dave: Rapid fire, you know, perfect for theCUBE, so thank you. >> Great, wonderful. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thanks for coming on. >> I appreciate it. >> All right, pleasure. >> All right, keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17 in Orlando. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)