>> Announcer: Live from San Fransciso, celebrating 10 years of hi-tech coverage, it's the theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its eco-system partners. >> Welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage at VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave, 10 years doing theCUBE at VMworld, what a transformation, lot of technologies coming back into the center of all the action. SD-WAN's one of them, we got two great guests, two entrepreneurs, the co-founders of VeloCloud. Sanjay Uppal who's the VP and GM of VeloCloud Business Unit part of VMware, VMware bought on December 2017, Steve Woo, Senior Director of VeloCloud Business Unit. Also co-founder, you guys both strong in networking, entrepreneurs, congratulations on. >> Thank you. >> That was two years ago. Okay, so, we were reminiscing about 10 years, 2010, when we first started doing theCUBE to now, but more than ever SD-WAN, just over the past 24 months, 36 months, a lot's changing as cloud has become more obvious. Certainly public cloud, no debate, but we start talking about cloud 2.0. Enterprise requirements are much unique and different that just, you know, being born in the cloud at least like the startups are. So, whole different challenges. This is a kind of difficult, it's a networking challenge. Networking and security are the two biggest, hottest areas right now in tech as clouds scale, the enterprise comes in. What's the vision, Sanjay? >> So what's going on here as you were rightly pointing out, cloud is changing. It's no longer people just want to get from private to public, it's a multi-cloud world and it's a hybrid cloud world. Now, that's talking at it from the compute standpoint. But, other services are also moving to the cloud, security services are moving to the cloud, so when you look at it from that standpoint, our customers want to get from the clients, which could be a user, it could be a thing, it could be a machine, all the way to the container which has the application. So we're looking at SD-WAN as being that fabric that connects from the client to the cloud to the container. And as you're rightly pointing out, networking and security is the hot area right now. So how does security and networking impact this client to cloud to container world is where SD-WAN is headed toady. >> And Pat Gelsinger who just came fresh off the keynote, he'll be on tomorrow, I'm going to ask him this question directly but, we've always been saying public cloud is such a great resource, I mean, who doesn't want all that massive compute, massive storage, if you can use it? But when you start getting into hybrid, right? I said the data center's an edge. And he's talking about a thin edge and a big edge and a thick edge, so when you're a networking packet, when you're in networking you move stuff around, you're an edge and you're a center, you're a core. These are networking concepts, this is not new, I mean, this is not new. >> Yes, this is not new. And I think the concept of the edge, as he was pointing out, there's different edges everywhere and you have to really look at it from, as you're crossing the boundary, how do you get the packets from point A to point B? Making sure that the performances are short, so you get the application layer performance, but yet not increasing your attack surface from a security standpoint. And so, the facilities that Steve and myself and other folks at VeloCloud have constructed is really reducing the attack surface by segmentation. But making sure that the conversation from the client to the cloud to the container has that assured performance, particularly for real time applications. Which are actually not easy to get right because the underlying transport may not actually help in any great way. >> So, John, you said it's not really new for you networking guys, it's really not. At the same time, Pat talked about choice versus complexity so it's a much more complex world. So you've had to change the way in which, you approach from a technology standpoint I presume? The roadmap has probably shifted, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >> So, absolutely. So the discussion about moving to the cloud has been about the compute, but then you have to also actually look at the network, right? They forecast that 30 to 50% of the enterprise traffic is going to go to the cloud, right? But the network in the past was built for applications going to the on premise data center. So what we've had is inequality where you've had a full enterprise grade network going to the enterprise data center, but actually your cloud access was a second grade citizen. As Sanjay was saying, I still want performance, I still want security, and then in fact, as people actually expand to the cloud but actually put more and more workloads in the cloud, they start to realize, gee, where's my automation? Where's my scaling? So that still has to be done at the branch that the remote sites that need access to the cloud, and they need this automated, secure, high performing access to all the cloud workloads. Especially even that it's now moved to multi-cloud, right? So you went from on premise, a little bit in the hybrid, private cloud, now many more instances and now multi-cloud, becomes more and more complex and that's where cloud delivered SD-WAN really addresses that problem. >> So Steve, lay out the architecture, so let's just all roleplay for a second here. I'm a CCO, CIO, I'm progressive, got my hands in all the top things, certainly security's number one concern I have. And I'm building my own stack, I love the cloud, I don't want to make it a second class citizen, I really want to re-architect this. What the playbook, what do I do, what's your recommendation? >> Alright, so the playbook is, and this is advice from the cloud compute centers as well, right? Go direct to the cloud, don't back haul it through the enterprise data center and introduce latency so you now need Internet Breakout at more locations, not just the central data center. But I still need the security, so how do I have cloud security for traffic going straight to the cloud versus going back to the east west, to the data center? So really, the advantage that the SD-WAN solution has is it's actually a hybrid that has a footprint on premise but also has a cloud footprint. So Sanjay and I and VeloCloud, we have this big network of cloud gateways so you have the footprint on prem and in the cloud to have distributed security. >> So, Sanjay, talk about, back to your original bumper sticker, client, cloud, containers. So, I see that security piece. How important has the container piece become? And what is that role of the container in the future? Is it going to be a wrapper for legacy apps, is it going to be primary for new apps? Because Kubernetes clearly is orchestrating a bunch of containers and other services so the role of the container's certainly super valuable. How does that impact some of the efficiencies that's needed for networking and to ensure security? >> Yeah, great question. You know, the networking folks, and networking was always relegated to being the underlay or the plumbing. Now what's becoming important is that the applications are making their intent aware to the network. And the intent is becoming aware. As the intent becomes aware, we networking people know what to do in the SD-WAN layer, which then shields all the intricacies of what needs to get done in the underlay. So to put it in very simple terms, the container's what really drives the need and what we're doing is we're building the outcome to satisfy that need. Now containers are critical because as Pat was saying, all of the new digital applications are going to be built with containers in mind. So the reason we call it client to cloud to container is because the containers can literally be anywhere. You know, we're talking about them being in the private cloud and then the public cloud, they could be right next to where the client is because of the edge cloud. They could be in the telco network which is the telco cloud. So between these four clouds, you literally have a network of these containers and the underlying infrastructure that we are doing is to provide that SD-WAN layer that'll get the containers to talk to one another as well as to talk to the clients that are getting access to those applications. >> You know, sometimes it takes a history lesson to figure out the future. I was talking with Steve Herrod and I want to get your reaction to a comment he made to me when we were talking about the impact of VMware back in the old days, you know, virtualization. Virtualization kind of came out as an application and then it became what it did in the server world, just changed the game. But one key thing that we talked about and he mentioned was, the key was that virtualization allowed for massive efficiencies. Not just on price and consolidation of service and efficiency on price, but it enabled more efficiencies in performance without any code changes to the application. So the question is, is that, okay, containers I buy 100%, we agree, since Docker and early days to now with the Kubernetes, containers are going to be a game changer. What's that dynamic that's going to come next? Is there a view from your perspective on that step up function of value without a lot of application rewrites or network changes? I mean, I'm just trying to figure out how that fits together what's your view on that? >> Yeah, let me drag this first and then maybe Steve can comment as well, so. The first thing is that SD-WAN, just like server virtualization did, we're doing what server virtualization was for the network. So you don't require any changes to your underlay, meaning that you don't require changes to your broadband, you don't require changes to your LTE and even 5G, as well as the NPLS network so you don't have to twiddle with those bits, we manage it all in the overlay, this is exactly similar to what VMs did when it came to server virtualization. Now, when containers come in, because we get the visibility of what the container wants, we can both in real time, as well as a priori, figure out how the network should be configured. And that is a game changer because a container could be right next to you, it could be in the cloud, far edge, thin edge, it's not just a destination, it's literally everywhere. And that underlying fabric, if the underlying fabric of the network doesn't work, your digital transformation project for containers is not going to work either. You there's a key building block over there. >> So if I get this right, you're saying is that because you have that underlay visibility without any changes, by making efficiencies there, you then can understand what the container wants so you're bringing intelligence to the container and vice versa? >> Yes, so that containers tells us what do they need to run, I mean the application tells us, which is built with containers. And what we do is we dynamically measure how the network is performing, and we adapt to what the container wants. We call this outcome driven. We know what the outcome is and we adapt the networking to deliver that outcome. >> So I want to ask you guys, so Pat talked today about 8% better improvement relative to bare metal, but it's really about the entire system, the entire network. And I'm curious as to how you guys are evolving. You know, John and I talk about cloud 2.0, how you're evolving to support that. Because it's really about application performance in total, what the user sees, not what I can measure in some on prem data center, I'm not saying Pat was doing that, but my guess to deduce the numbers for the keynote they probably did do that. So, how is your infrastructure and architecture evolving to support application performance across the network? >> Right, right. So, to add to what Sanjay was saying in terms of just being aware of the requirements of the containers and optimizing and having visibility but actually, leverage the container and virtual machine technology in the SD-WAN platform itself. So in terms of solving the network problem, it's not just about us virtualizing the network resources and then choosing the best path across the network to the applications, but actually hosting some applications that deserve to be moved out to the edge to help solve the performance problem as well. A good example is IOT, where you just have a lot of data, a lot of real time data that needs real time control response instead of necessarily going over the most efficient path to an existing cloud data center on premise, perhaps do some of the analytics actually in the SD-WAN network edge, and we can do that with containers. >> So what about the real time aspect? Because I think that's a key point, you mentioned that, Sanjay, earlier. Because, I remember, not the date myself, but I remember back in the days when policy was a revolution, oh my God, we can do policy based stuff! And provisional stuff, that was an, oh my God, static network, though, I mean everything was provisioned, buttoned up nicely, you're not dealing with a static network when you're dealing with services. So you're moving up the stack, we're talking containers now, at the application level, assuming you have the fabric down here. There's going to be a lot of stuff being turned on, turned off, things provisioning, unprovisioning, so a lot of dynamic nature going on. So, if I see this right, policy is key and enables some intelligence, it's got to have an impact on the real time so talk about what real time means, some of the challenges, is it just a transactional issue? Is it latency? And is that where the container magic happens? Just unpack that a little bit. >> So there's really four classes of real time applications that we see. Voice, video, VDI and IOT. Now, there's of course, other applications that are built from these building blocks or these types of application, sub-applications. Now, each of these has a latency requirement, but it also has a requirement in terms of dynamism, so as you know, video can change dramatically from one moment to the other, variable portrayed video, right? Voice doesn't change as dramatically but has very stringent requirements in terms of when that packet should show up. So when we look at these, and you put them on a best effort network that only says that they're going to get the packet from point A to point B, these real time applications may not work. So what we have constructed is an overlay that supports realtime applications even on best effort networks. And this is actually a fairly significant shift in the industry, like if you look at running, you know, all of us have done a voice call, on a broadband and you hear these artifacts and rubberbanding and you can't hear the other person, right? But with VeloCloud, we're able to provide guarantees running on best effort networks. And I think that is a game changer. That is going to be a game changer also as the applications get much more dynamic. I mean, you bring in containers, one of the issues is where should that application run? That can be decided in real time. VMware invented this whole vMotion idea, well how about vMotioning the container? And how are you going to vMotion it and how are you going to decide where that container should be? So all of this is really what a networking infrastructure can provide for you in real time. >> And you've got this overlay, and without performance degradation or dramatic performance degradation, right? So what's the secret sauce behind that? >> So, the secret sauce in our solution is something we call dynamic multi-path optimization. So just like virtualization was done for the data center, first continuously monitor the resource's performance, capacity of the different underlay resources and then in real time, recognizing the business priority of the different applications, instantly put the workload, or in this case, the network WAN traffic on the right resource and actually have the flexibility to move it as conditions change, as capacity changes. And further than that, if you can't stare around the problems that we may see in the network, we can actually remediate the actual traffic streams and since we're on both ends we can have a lot of optimization tricks and actually make sure that real time data applications work perfectly. >> So it's a data analysis and a math problem to solve? >> Yeah, so we use that for real time optimization, and then the other benefit is we have this huge, in the cloud, of course, huge data lake of information that we continue to share more and more with the users so they can see the overlay, so that the entire underlay environment of the WAN, where it's going in the different hybrid cloud, and also the overlay performance. There's going to be huge value in that in terms of solving network problems. >> Are the telcos a bottleneck to the future or is 5G going to solve all that, or? >> Telcos are a partner, and more than 50% of our business is done with the telco. So it's us working with the telco and then going eventually to the enterprise. >> And they're moving at the speed that you want em to move? They're saddled with pressures on costs and network function virtualization, and it's a complicated problem. >> Right, as you heard Pat say in the morning, the telcos are going through a dramatic change. Because they're shifting away from this custom proprietary hardware infrastructure into a completely software driven world, right? And so the telco is a critical partner. They are virtualizing their own network, they are virtualizing the core of the network using VMware and other technologies, and as they're doing that, they're virtualizing what goes out to the enterprise customer. And the network virtualization piece, of course, is built on SD-WAN. One thing I wanted to add to what Steve said, is that we collect almost 10 billion flow records a day. From across all of our 150,000 sites, and this is a treasure trove of information. It is this information that allows us to develop the next generation algorithms. We're the only ones who have that much information that is collected, it's rich information, it's about how the network performs, how the applications are, where it is going, how the application workloads are. And using this we generate the next generation algorithms that'll optimize the networks and make them more secure. >> And that is the benefit of SaaS, the beautiful thing about having a SaaS platform, easy to stand up, the data becomes a really critical aspect for making the network smarter, to your point, this is all those data points. It's an operating, sounds like an operating system to me. >> It's a highly distributed network operating system. >> Guys, thanks for coming on, great insight. Final question to end the segment, as two co-founders and entrepreneurs, when you started VeloCloud, knowing what's going on today, explain in your entrepreneurial mind, where this is going, because this isn't your, as they say, grandfather's SD-WAN market anymore. It's really turning into, quite frankly, next generation networking, next generation software, you mentioned it's network operating system, it's one big distributed network. And all these new things are happening, what's the vision? Is this what you thought it would be when you guys started? >> Well, you know, the amazing this is many startups usually go through a pivot, right? They start off as one thing and maybe more than one pivot, in fact, I think it was a couple of years ago that we just for grins, looked at the first few slides that Steve has made when we had got started. For our seed investor, where we actually had absolutely nothing! And it was, actually is very true, the graphics were very very poor, other than that the idea of moving to the cloud and using the cloud as the network, even at that time we said the cloud is the network. That has not changed. And so, the enduring vision here is that regardless of where you are, you're on laptops right now, clients could be sensors, actuators, all of this is going to go through a network cloud. And that network cloud is going to be responsible for getting you to any final destination. Whether it's your nearby container or whether it's running in some public cloud. And so the vision is trust the network, it's going to make sure that it'll figure out whether you should be on Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or LTE or 5G or whatever have you. You just say this application's important to me. The network is going to take care of the rest of it. >> Well you guys are certainly music to our ears, we love network effects, we think network effects is not just the way media is today but also technology, the network is all interconnected it's all instrumented, you can get the data. There's no blindspots, if you can instrument it, you can automate it. You guys are pioneers, thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Good to have ya. >> Thank you. >> CUBE coverage here, 10 years covering VWworld, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Back with more live coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube covering DevNet Create 2017 brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back here, we're live here in San Francisco for SiliconANGLE's the Cube's exclusive 2 days of coverage for Cisco's inaugural event DevNet Create, building on their 3 year old successful DevNet program which is Cisco core developer program now foraying out into the world of cloud native developers, open source, great move for Cisco. Our next guest, Wissam Ali-Ahmad, lead solutions architect with Splunk. Good to see you. >> Good to see you too, John. >> Here with Peter Burris of course, my co-host. >> Wissam: Hi, Peter. >> So Splunk being here is an important thing because you guys have been riding the wave for cloud, certainly your relationship with Amazon web service is well known, very successful. Splunk as a company went public, well known. You guys really, really hit a niche around big data and how cloud has helped you guys accelerate your business. So you've been transformed, but continuing to grow, so you're riding that wave, but now Cisco's on the wave, and Cisco's been involved in the wave. But from a relationship standpoint, oh yeah, we're the networking guys, we're going to come in and help Docker with this, we're going to come in and help Splunk with this, so they've been kind of a helper, not the main player. This is a new way to get back in and be really enabled for the cloud world. What's your reaction to this move by Cisco? >> I mean, we have a great partnership with Cisco for many years. And I think, you know, Splunk plays a good, as you said, we're a good player there. We integrate well. I mean, all the initiatives Cisco's involved with, we have integrations with Cisco on many levels with different technology. And also Splunk, the deal is with Splunk is that you need to bring invisibly to everything, and Splunk is that platform where you have access to all that data throughout all, all is like all that machine data so you have access to all that data, not only application data, not only network data. You need to look at everything these days. Especially when there's attacks. You know we heard recently, of course everybody heard about WannaCry, and to the tech, that attack, you need to look at everything, because you could someone bring in a laptop behind the firewall even, and they can be affected already, and if you don't have access to see what they're doing, not just from a network perspective, like what apps in the cloud they're accessing, you know, what other files on the locally, so, because you have access to all that data in Splunk, you should be able to get better visibility. >> And you guys have a unique position in the sense that you're close, again, to the machine. You know, logs and data We had Amanda on from Cisco, who was, in her tribe as a developer, she's not necessarily a network engineer, but she's brought on that mojo in from the developer community. When she was first day on the job, you know, they were doing some Python, some rest API stuff, you know, basic 101 stuff, but she didn't want to do an app that was showing hey, how many Twitter followers do I have? She had to go in and look at the devices. So now the opportunity with IOT is that for Cisco to make and expose the network for programmability >> Wissam: Right. >> And extend it. How are they going to do that? I mean you're closer to those guys in your relationship, but that's what everyone wants. They want the infrastructure to just go, that's DevOps >> Right. Yeah, they want the edge to come to them. They want data to be more accessible to all the users. And then so Cisco's on that path, definitely on that path, to get more infrastructure visibility in the data center and the networks, so they're definitely on that path of doing that. >> And let me build on this, so if we think about the various components associated with some of the things that Splunk does. A leader in the application of machine and AI and big data related technologies, to solving business problems. The algorithms for doing this have been around for a long time. The hardware couldn't do it, so you had to write really tight software to do it, and you were one of the first companies out there to really do that. And then it was, we'll point all that at sources of data, that you can apply these technologies, to create better business value. And there were two places where people did it. Web logs, for online marketing, and IT, since IT technology throws off an enormous amount of data. So as I think about it, the relationship with Cisco is especially interesting, because Cisco is going to be one of those companies that encourages people to create new sources of data and a lot of it, IOT and other places, and bring it back to companies and technologies that have a proven track record for generating value out of that data. So talk a bit about how Splunk intends to, going back to what John said, riding that wave. The algorithms are here, the hardware can do it, now we've got to get access to more of the data, and here comes Cisco being really serious about moving a lot of data around. What do you think? >> I mean, we like when people bring in a lot of data into Splunk. We also have been focusing a lot on the personas. On the, we call the Sherlock, the data Sherlock. Right, so that unique persona is where they need to look at, how do I make sense of my data? Not only just about bringing data, but how do I make sense of that data. What are solutions? What are use case I need to have better impact on the business? So we're actually helping solve real kind of business use cases. This morning, Yelp had a webinar about how they use Splunk driving all the web infrastructure for Yelp, the Yelp back end for all their-- >> Peter: This is still in the IT? >> Yeah. >> Peter: It's not Yelps marketing group, this is still in the IT? >> But they are correlating that with other business use cases, yes. >> Of course, it will start coming together. So where do you see some of these use cases popping up, now that Cisco is helping to create those new sources, and get people to, you know, acculturating people to the idea that these are sources of value, business value. Where do you see some of the new use cases? >> There's a lot of use cases now coming up around business analytics, around IOT as you mentioned. And an added element of machine learning across different data sources. So if I want to look at not just performance of one service, let's say my elevator, I want to see how that's going to affect other areas of my business, too. So you're able to see not only the power of correlating that data, but also be able to apply machine learning on that data. So there's a lot of use cases around business analytics. Security's always there, because security, as you know, attack vectors are getting complex every few months or so, so you need to also chase that, and you need to look at all the data, the behaviors in that data, to get better predictability, to get better prevention detection. >> So Splunk is emerging as a great software company for a lot of IT pros, but it still is more in the op side. How is this conference and the likelihood or the notion that developers are increasingly going to be part of that use case, it's utilizing data and data-related services to better understand operations, but find new ways of creating value out of the capabilities provided by that. What's the developer angle here for Splunk? >> Great question. We actually are focusing a lot on developer tools. So Splunk, being a platform. I always say Splunk is a full-feature platform for machine data and big data. So it's open in the sense that developers can develop their own content on Splunk. They can extend what we have. So an example of that is, the recent project called Mexico Contaro. So that's a project full that's looking at internet usage and coverage on Mexico, in Mexico City and across all the cities. And this was using Splunk to end Meraki API's, and bring all that data together, and network data to try to give exposure to kind of like government analytics. And that's a neat case because not necessarily only IT, but also helping all the goods out there. >> So Cisco, Meraki and other sources, plus Splunk to be able to get deep visibility into a number of ways, you know, a very complex system like Mexico City, which is about as complex as you get, actually operates. >> Wissam: Yes. That's one, yeah. >> Tell about the Splunk direction now, because everyone's been questioning about the public offering, because you're not putting numbers out there, active community, it's not that you guys aren't being transparent, but you've got to go to the next level of growth. Obviously Cisco's coming at the cloud native world. We see the cloud native compute foundation, really with great support of the Linux foundation. New open source stuff's going on all the time. How is Splunk looking at the future right now? What's next? I mean obviously security, we heard that at Dot Conf last year, but you guys have really a good position with the data. You have good account names. You've got great blue chip customers. What's next? What's the product solution look like for you guys? What's the new architecture? What's the new plan? >> I think more listening, looking at all the scale, and cloud and listen to the customers, making the data onboarding easier, making it more scalable, covering more use cases that we talked about. Innovate a lot of areas around machine learning, all that to cover more of the use cases, so we're definitely moving forward to go the next step beyond just-- >> So let's take another example. So DevOps, right, everyone loves the DevOps. It's not like a solution, you can't buy DevOps, you just got to do it, right? So that's pretty clear. You can't just write an Agile manifesto and say, "We're DevOps." You got to have a vision, maybe write a manifesto just to get the people motivated, but put the right people in place, let the things organically develop. So the question is, what is an ideal architecture, and what is a best practice, from your standpoint, where you've seen examples of people who've transformed into this DevOps world, where they really got the ball rolling, got some change happening, and then scaled it. Can you give us a kind of a pattern that you've seen the customers? >> I have not seen personally a lot of that, but definitely there's transformation happening. It's not easy to move into that DevOps switch. You cannot do it overnight. So you need as much as possible tools that would actually give exposure, how am I doing, right? Am I pushing my code at the speed it's expected to be? Do I have bugs addressed early on? So that kind of exposure you need a system that will give you basically to analyze all that data too, and then at Splunk we have a story on DevOps. DevOps and application exposure monitoring and that. And the unique thing about Splunk is that you don't only look at what's inside the application, which was AMP's that do application management, but you should look at everything, so we look outside the black box. Not inside the app, but look at outside too, so we're going to give you exposure of your whole DevOp process You know, from the beginning, the whole condis integration, so I see Splunk helping organizations moving into that kind of new process. >> But there's an interesting relationship between tools and process, or tools and skills, so John, you'll probably laugh at this. Many years ago I found myself sitting in a room with the CEO of a very, very large pharmaceutical, me and a group of other other consultants, and he said, the discussion was, are we going to buy SAP or not? And after two hours of people arguing about it, he finally said, "Screw it, we're doing it, "I'm sick and tired of these process arguments. "We're just going to do what SAP says in the process." There's a relationship between the practices suggested by Splunk and the types of things that a business actually does in a DevOps sense. What is this, how is Splunk changing the notion of DevOps, and how is now as Splunk extends itself, how is DevOps and new practices and new ways of thinking, altering the way that Splunk delivers capability? >> I mean, we always listen to our customers. And then we've actually been looking at addressing use cases, like on DevOps, from a persona aspect. Like as a DevOp engineer, I won't be able to address this kind of issues, and we listen to that, and we try to address those, not only just by a tool, but also by looking at best practices around that. And sometimes we manifest those through apps. So Splunk can actually, you can publish an app as a developer if you're not happy as a customer, you can modify, take one of our existing free apps, and then modify them cue on process, so we're not kind of specific rigid to certain way, and I know DevOps, and Agile Ward, is not even like a religion, you know, you're not supposed to follow, you're supposed to be flexible in certain areas, and even implementing DevOps comes in Agile way too. >> But it's still pedagogical, and John in many respects, there's your manifesto for DevOps, right? Is your choice of tools and how they come together, and degree to which they're integrated kind of take priority. >> Well, you got eight minutes until you have to go up on stage and do your talk. Here we're live in San Francisco. What are you going to be speaking about when you hit the stage in eight minutes? You have seven minutes to explain (laughs). >> (Laughs) Deliver pitch. So I'll be focusing a lot on the integrations that we have with various Cisco products, so we have, with Splunk you're able to bring in a lot of the API, data through API integrations, so I'm going to show how easy that process is to bring that data if you have an API like Meraki or ACI or Ice. And I'll also be focusing more on how the data you can do it from the cloud, easy, without having an agent involved, without having any software you need to install to collect the data, and we'll be talking more about the Mexico Contaro case, and then do some fun live demos also. >> But Cisco's got good API's, people might not know that, but they are API'd up pretty well on the equipment and the gear and the platform. >> Yes, of course. >> Just commentary on that, your reaction to share for people who are not fluent in Cisco, in terms of their enablement of getting data out? >> Yes, Cisco has a lot of good API's, capabilities around sharing that data, the openness of it has been great, and made easy for us, even for our customers to bring that data, the API, that data into Splunk, so it's a matter of a few minutes now to point to that API and bring that data into Splunk, and yeah, that's good. >> Wissam Ali-Ahmad, going on stage in seven minutes, you got it all done, congratulations. Thanks for coming on The Cube. I know you've got your big speech here to the packed house. Inaugural event here, Cisco's DevNet Create. Thanks for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you, John. >> More live coverage here in San Fransciso. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris. Stay with us as we get down to wrapping up day two. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. >> Hi, I'm April Mitchell, and I'm the senior directory of strategy and plan

>> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE we're at the data privacy day at Twitter's world headquarters in downtown San Fransciso and we're really excited to get into it with our next guest Dr. Andreas Weigend, he is now at the Social Data Lab, used to be at Amazon, recently published author. Welcome. >> Good to be here, morning. >> Absolutely, so give us a little about what is Social Data Lab for people who aren't that familiar with it and what are you doing over at Berkeley? >> Alright, so let's start with what is social data? Social data is a data people create and share whether they know it or not and what that means is Twitter is explicit but also a geo location or maybe even just having photos about you. I was in Russia all day during the election day in the United States with Putin, and I have to say that people now share on Facebook what the KGB wouldn't have gotten out of them under torture. >> So did you ever see the Saturday Night Live sketch where they had a congressional hearing and the guy the CIA guy says, Facebook is the most successful project that we've ever launched, people tell us where they are who they're with and what they're going to do, share pictures, location, it's a pretty interesting sketch. >> Only be taught by Black Mirror, some of these episodes are absolutely amazing. >> People can't even watch is it what I have not seen I have to see but they're like that's just too crazy. Too real, too close to home. >> Yeah, so what was the question? >> So let's talk about your new book. >> Oh that was social data. >> Yeah social data >> Yeah, and so I call it actually social data revolution. Because if you think back, 10, 20 years ago we absolutely we doesn't mean just you and me, it means a billion people. They think about who they are, differently from 20 years ago, think Facebook as you mentioned. How we buy things, we buy things based on social data we buy things based on what other people say. Not on what some marketing department says. And even you know, the way we think about information I mean could you do a day without Google? >> No >> No. >> Could you go an hour without Google? >> An hour, yes, when I sleep. But some people actually they Google in their sleep. >> Well and they have their health tracker turned on while they sleep to tell them if they slept well. >> I actually find this super interesting. How dependent I am to know in the morning when I wake up before I can push a smiley face or the okay face or the frowny face, to first see how did I sleep? And if the cycles were nice up and down, then it must have been a good night. >> So it's interesting because the concept from all of these kind of biometric feedback loops is if you have the data, you can change your behavior based on the data, but on the other hand there is so much data and do we really change our behaivor based on the data? >> I think the question is a different one. The question is alright, we have all this data but how can we make sure that this data is used for us, not against us. Within a few hundred meters of here there's a company where employees were asked to wear a fit bit or tracking devices which retain more generally. And then one morning one employee came in after you know not having had an exactly solid night of sleep shall we say and his boss said I'm sorry but I just looked at your fit bit you know this is an important meeting, we can't have you at that meeting. Sorry about that. >> True story? >> Yeah >> Now that's interesting. So I think the fit bit angle is interesting when that is a requirement to have company issued health insurance and they see you've been sitting on your couch too much. Now how does that then run into the HIPPA regulations. >> You know, they have dog walkers here. I'm not sure where you live in San Francisco. But in the area many people have dogs. And I know that a couple of my neighbors they give when the dog walker comes to take the dog, they also give their phone to the dog walker so now it looks like they are taking regular walks and they're waiting for the discount from health insurance. >> Yeah, it's interesting. Works great for the person that does walk or gives their phone to the dog walker. But what about the person that doesn't, what about the person that doesn't stop at stop signs. What happens in a world on business models based on aggregated risk pooling when you can segment the individual? >> That is a very very very biased question. It's a question of fairness. So if we know everything about everybody what would it mean to be fair? As you said, insurance is built on pooling risk and that means by nature that there are things that we don't know about people. So maybe, we should propose lbotomy data lobotomy. So people actually have some part chopped off out of the data chopped off. So now we can pool again. >> Interesting >> Of course not, the answer is that we as society should come up with ways of coming up with objective functions, how do we weigh the person you know taking a walk and then it's easy to agree on the function then get the data and rank whatever insurance premium whatever you're talking about here rank that accordingly. So I really think it's a really important concept which actually goes back to my time at Amazon. Where we came up with fitness functions as we call it. And it takes a lot of work to have probably spent 50 hours on that with me going through groups and groups and groups figuring out, what do we want the fitness function to be like? You have to have the buy in of the groups you know it they just think you know that is some random management thing imposed on us, it's not going to happen. But if they understand that's the output they're managing for, then not bad. >> So I want to follow up on the Amazon piece because we're big fans of Jeff Hamilton and Jeff Bezzos who we go to AWS and it's interesting excuse me, James Hamilton when he talks about the resources that EWS can bring to bear around privacy and security and networking and all this massive infrastructure being built in terms of being able to protect privacy once you're in the quote un-quote public cloud versus people trying to execute that at the individual company level and you know RSA is in a couple of weeks the amount of crazy scary stuff that is coming in for people that want interviews around some of this crazy security stuff. When you look at kind of public cloud versus private cloud and privacy you know supported by a big heavy infrastructure like what EWS has versus a Joe Blow company you know trying to implement them themselves, how do you see that challenge. I mean I don't know how the person can compete with having the resourses again the aggregated resources pool that James Hamilton has to bring to barrel this problem. >> So I think we really need to distinguish two things. Which is security versus privacy. So for security there's no question in my mind that Joe Blow, with this little PC has not a chance against our Chinese or Russian friends. Is no question for me that Amazon or Google have way better security teams than anybody else can afford. Because it is really their bread and butter. And if there's a breach on that level then I think it is terrible for them. Just think about the Sony breach on a much smaller scale. That's a very different point from the point of privacy. And from the point about companies deliberately giving the data about you for targeting purposes for instance. And targeting purposes to other companies So I think for the cloud there I trust, I trust Google, I trust Amazon that they are doing hopefully a better job than the Russian hackers. I am more interested in the discussion on the value of data. Over the privacy discussion after all this is the world privacy day and there the question is what do people understand as the trade off they have, what they give in order to get something. People have talked about Google having this impossible irresistible value proposition that for all of those little data you get for instance I took Google Maps to get here, of course Google needs to know where I am to tell me to turn left at the intersection. And of course Google has to know where I want to be going. And Google knows that a bunch of other people are going there today, and you probably figure out that something interesting is happening here. >> Right >> And so those are the interesting questions from me. What do we do with data? What is the value of data? >> But A I don't really think people understand the amount of data that they're giving over and B I really don't think that they understand I mean now maybe they're starting to understand the value because of the value of companies like Google and Facebook that have the data. But do you see a shifting in A the awareness, and I think it's even worse with younger kids who just have lived on their mobile phones since the day they were conscious practically these days. Or will there be a value to >> Or will they even mobile before they were born? Children now come pre-loaded, because the parents take pictures of their children before they are born >> That's true. And you're right and the sonogram et cetera. But and then how has mobile changed this whole conversation because when I was on Facebook on my PC at home very different set of information than when it's connected to all the sensors in my mobile phone when Facebook is on my mobile phone really changes where I am how fast I'm moving, who I'm in proximity to it completely changed the privacy game. >> Yes so geo location and the ACLU here in Northern California chapter has a very good quote on that. "Geo location is really extremely powerful variable" Now what was the question? >> How has this whole privacy thing changed now with the proliferation of the mobile, and the other thing I would say, when you have kids that grew up with mobile and sharing on the young ones don't use Facebook anymore, Instagram, Snap Chat just kind of the notion of sharing and privacy relative to folks that you know wouldn't even give their credit card over the telephone not that long ago, much less type it into a keyboard, um do they really know the value do they really understand the value do they really get the implications when that's the world in which they've lived in. Most of them, you know they're just starting to enter the work force and haven't really felt the implications of that. >> So for me the value of data is how much the data impacts a decision. So for the side of the individual, if I have data about the restaurant, and that makes me decide whether to go there or to not go there. That is having an impact on my decision thus the data is valuable. For a company a decision whether to show me this offer or that offer that is how data is valued from the company. So that kind of should be quantified The value of the picture of my dog when I was a child. That is you know so valuable, I'm not talking about this. I'm very sort of rational here in terms of value of data as the impact is has on decisions. >> Do you see companies giving back more of that value to the providers of that data? Instead of you know just simple access to useful applications but obviously the value exceeds the value of the application they're giving you. >> So you use the term giving back and before you talked about kids giving up data. So I don't think that it is quite the right metaphor. So I know that metaphor come from the physical world. That sometimes has been data is in your oil and that indeed is a good metaphor when it comes to it needs to be refined to have value. But there are other elements where data is very different from oil and that is that I don't really give up data when I share and the company doesn't really give something back to me but it is much interesting exchange like a refinery that I put things in and now I get something not necessarily back I typically get something which is very different from what I gave because it has been combined with the data of a billion other people. And that is where the value lies, that my data gets combined with other peoples data in some cases it's impossible to actually take it out it's like a drop of ink, a drop in the ocean and it spreads out and you cannot say, oh I want my ink back. No, it's too late for that. But it's now spread out and that is a metaphor I think I have for data. So people say, you know I want to be in control of my data. I often think they don't have deep enough thought of what they mean by that. I want to change the conversation of people saying You what can I get by giving you the data? How can you help me make better decisions? How can I be empowered by the data which you are grabbing or which you are listening to that I produce. That is a conversation which I want to ask here at the Privacy Day. >> And that's happening with like Google Maps obviously you're exchanging the information, you're walking down the street, you're headed here they're telling you that there's a Starbucks on the corner if you want to pick up a coffee on the way. So that is already kind of happening right and that's why obviously Google has been so successful. Because they're giving you enough and you're giving them more and you get in this kind of virtuous cycle in terms of the information flow but clearly they're getting a lot more value than you are in terms of their you know based on their market capitalization you know, it's a very valuable thing in the aggregation. So it's almost like a one plus one makes three >> Yes. >> On their side. >> Yes, but it's a one trick pony ultimately. All of the money we make is rats. >> Right, right that's true. But in-- >> It's a good one to point out-- >> But then it begs the question too when we no longer ask but are just delivered that information. >> Yes, I have a friend Gam Dias and he runs a company called First Retail, and he makes the point that there will be no search anymore in a couple of years from now. What are you talking about? I search every day, but is it. Yes. But You know, you will get the things before you even think about it and with Google now a few years ago when other things, I think he is quite right. >> We're starting to see that, right where the cards come to you with a guess as to-- >> And it's not so complicated If let's see you go to the symphony you know, my phone knows that I'm at the symphony even if I turn it off, it know where I turned it off. And it knows when the symphony ends because there are like a thousand other people, so why not get Ubers, Lyfts closer there and amaze people by wow, your car is there already. You know that is always a joke what we have in Germany. In Germany we have a joke that says, Hey go for vacation in Poland your car is there already. But maybe I shouldn't tell those jokes. >> Let's talk about your book. So you've got a new book that came out >> Yeah >> Just recently released, it's called Data for the People. What's in it what should people expect, what motivated you to write the book? >> Well, I'm actually excited yesterday I got my first free copies not from the publisher and not from Amazon. Because they are going by the embargo by which is out next week. But Barnes and Noble-- >> They broke the embargo-- Barnes and Noble. Breaking news >> But three years of work and basically it is about trying to get people to embrace the data they create and to be empowered by the data they create. Lots of stories from companies I've worked with Lots of stories also from China, I have a house in China I spend a month or two months there every year for the last 15 years and the Chinese ecosystem is quite different from the US ecosystem and you of course know that the EU regulations are quite different from the US regulations. So, I wrote on what I think is interesting and I'm looking forward to actually rereading it because they told me I should reread it before I talk about it. >> Because when did you submit it? You probably submitted it-- >> Half a year >> Half a year ago, so yeah. Yeah. So it's available at Barnes and Noble and now Amazon >> It is available. I mean if you order it now, you'll get it by Monday. >> Alright, well Dr. Andreas Weigin thanks for taking a few minutes, we could go forever and ever but I think we've got to let you go back to the rest of the sessions. >> Thank you for having me. >> Alright, pleasure Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE see you next time.