>>The cube presents HPE discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >>Hey everyone. Welcome to Las Vegas. It's the cube live on the show floor at HPE discover 2022, the first in person discover in three years, there are about 8,000 people here. The keynote was standing room only Lisa Martin here. I got a powerhouse group joining me for this keynote analysis. Dave ante joins us, Keith Townsend, John farrier, guys. Lot of news. It's all about HPE GreenLake. What were some of the things Dave, that stuck out to you? >>Well, I'll tell you right now, I gotta just quote, Antonio OIR said, Neri said four years ago, I declared that the enterprise of the future would be edge centric, cloud enabled and data driven. As a result, we launched HPE GreenLake. It kind of declared victory. Now I would say that what they're talking about and what they announced, I would consider table stakes. You know, I wish it started in 2014. I wish Antonio took over in 2015 instead of 2018, but I have to give credit, he's brought a focus and uh, and a, he think he's amped it up, John. I mean, if he's really prioritizing, uh, the, as a service they're going on in all in they're burning the boats, uh, and it's good. They got a lot of work to do. They >>Got a lot of work to do three years ago, John Antonio stood on this very stage saying we, and by 2022, we're gonna be delivering our entire portfolio as a service here we are with GreenLake. What I wanna get your thoughts on Keith's as well. >>Yeah. Well, first of all, I think that the crowded house was, uh, and a sign of people wanna come back together. So it's, to me, that was the first good news I saw, which was the HP community, their customer base. They're all here. They're glad to be back and forth. So it shows that they, their customer base it's resonating their value proposition of annual recurring revenue as a service plus the contract values with GreenLake are up. So this resonance with the customers, Dave, on the new operating model, that's a great check the box there. Um, I would say that I don't think HP's, as far along as Antonio had hopes, he'd be the pandemic was a setback. Um, but GreenLake is a real shining star. It's, uh, it's producing some green if you will money for them in terms of contracts, but they still got a lot more work to do because they're in a really interesting zone, Dave, because edge the cloud, although relevant and accurate where the, the shift is going, are they really there with, with the goods? And to me, I'm looking forward to seeing this discover if they have it or not. Certainly the messaging's good, but we're gonna UN UN unpeel that onion back and look at it. But >>Keith they're on the curve, right? At least they're on the cloud curve. >>They're absolutely on the curve. They have APIs, they have consistent developer experience. They announced the developer portal. They're developer centric. You can now consume your three par storage array services via a Terraform, uh, provider. They speak the language of cloud practitioners. You might struggle a little bit if I'm a small startup, you know, why would I look towards HPE? They kind of answered that a little bit. They had evil genius as a customer on stage, not a huge organization. A lot of the pushback they've been given is that if I may startup, I can simply go to a AWS portal, launch, a free trial service and run it. HPE kind of buried the lead. They now have, at least they announced preannounced the capability to, to trial GreenLake. So they're moving in the right direction. But you know, it's, it's it's table states. Well, >>Here's the thing. Here's the dynamic day that's going on. This is something that we've got got we're first of we've been covering HPE HP for now 11 years with the cube and look at Amazon's success and look at where Amazon's struggling. If you can say that they're having crossed overs to the enterprise, uh, cuz the enterprises are now just getting up to speed. You're seeing the rise of lack of talent. It certainly changing, uh, cyber security. You can't find talent. Kubernetes, good luck with that. Try to find someone. So you're seeing the enterprise aren't really geared up or staffed up for doing what I call, you know, high end cloud. So the rise of managed services is, is what we're seeing out there right now. You want Kubernetes clusters is a great set of managed services. You want other services? So that's the tell sign that the enterprises H HP's customers are now walking before they can run. They're crawling, they're now they're walking. So it's they have time to get in the Amazon lane in my opinion. Well, you >>Think about the hallmarks of cloud, obviously there's as a service, there's consumption based pricing. There's a developer, you know, friendliness, uh, there's ecosystem, which is really, really important. I think today, a lot of the ecosystem is partners, resellers and managed service providers. And to your point, Keith table stakes are things like single sign on being able to have, you know, a console being able to do it from a, from a URL to your point about startups is really interesting because that's one of the other hallmarks of cloud is you attract startups. And Lisa, we were at the snowflake summit and I asked the same question, can snowflake attract startups with their own super cloud. And what you saw was ecosystem partners developing in the snowflake cloud and monetizing. And that's something that we're waiting to see here. And I, I think they know >>You're suggesting way you suggesting that HP's gonna attract startups. >>Well, >>I, I think that's a sign if they can do that. That's a sign. And, and right now, I mean, you heard the example that Keith Keith gave. Uh, but, but not, not many. >>Yeah. I'm hoping that H I don't think HP is gonna ever attract startups, but I think the opportunity GreenLake affords the ecosystem is build clouds or purpose driven clouds around GreenLake. Mm-hmm <affirmative> whether it's the agreement with Equinix or all the cos and semi clouds, I think GreenLake gets most small CSPs, a leg up or 80% of the way there, where they can add that 20% of the IP and build services around GreenLake. And then that can attract the, the startup >>Or entrepreneurs. So the, the big question is, okay, where are these developers gonna come from? They could come from incumbents inside of companies. You know, the, the, the DevOps crowd from the enterprise, the really ops dev crowd. Right? I mean, yeah, don't you see that as a sort of a form of innovation startup, even though it's not a true startup. >>Yeah. Even though it's not, >>So Todd's making faces over there, we <laugh> >>Look, it, look it, they have >>Listen, if they don't, if they can't >>Do that, no, this is their focus is not startups. I agree with Keith on this one, they have to take care of business, home Depot. They have big customers and they have a lot of SMBs as well. They've got a great channel. H HP's got amazing infrastructure and, and client action going on. They gotta get the operating model, right job one as a service ARR, and then contract value and, and nail that with GreenLake. >>Who's their ideal customer profile. >>Their ideal is their install base. Look what Microsoft did with 365, they were going down. Their stock price was 26. At one point go to the, they went to the cloud 365, moved everything to the cloud and look at the success they're having. HP has the same kind of installed base. They gotta bring them along. They gotta get the operating model, right. And the developers that they're targeting are the ones inside the company and, or manage services that they're gonna go to the ecosystem for. That's where the cloud native comes in. That's where thing kind of comes together. So to me, I'm bullish on the operating model, but I'm skeptical that HP can get that cloud native developer. I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking for it. We're gonna look for it here. >>A key to that is going to be consistently. I, the, one of the things I'm looking for on the tech side, I, I hate to compare what HPE is doing to what VMware did with vCloud error years ago, but vCloud error on the outside looked >>Wonderful. Yes, >>It did. Once you tried to use it, it was just flaky underneath. And that's the part I'm looking to see customers pounding on it and saying, you know what API call after API I call, can I, uh, provision 10,000 pods a day? Does it scale down? Does it scale? And is it consistent? Is it >>Fragile Al roo she's co seasoned veteran? Uh, she was at V VMware cloud. She saw that movie. She gets a Mulligan, Dave. So I think her leadership is impressive. And I think she could bring a lot to the table to your point about don't make that same mistake and they gotta get this architecture, right. If they get the operating model right with GreenLake, they can double down on that and enable the developers that are driving the digital transformation. That to me is the, the key positions that they have to nail. And they do that. The rest is just fringe work. In my opinion, >>The reason why Alma was brought in, sorry, Lisa, it was, and then you gotta chime in here was to really build out that platform so that internal people at HPE can actually build value on top of it and the ecosystem that's her priority. >>We're gonna hear a lot from the ecosystem in the next couple of days, but I wanna get your perspective on, you've been following HPE a long time, all three of you. What are some of the things that you're hearing right now that are differentiators? We were just at Dell technologies. We talking about apex. We saw the big announcement they had with snowflake. We were at snowflake two weeks ago. I wanna get all three of your opinions on what are you seeing? Where is HP leading? >>I mean, HPE and Dell will, both with Dell, with apex are go, they're both gonna differentiate with their strengths. And, you know, for Dell, that's their breadth and their, their portfolio. And for, for HPE, that's their sort of open posture. I mean, John, you, you know this well, uh, that's their, their ecosystem, which I know has to evolve. And to me, their focus, you know, Antonio laid out some of the key differentiators. I, I, I think some of them were kind of, you know, pushing the envelope a little bit. Uh, but, but I think they're focus on as a service burning the, the, the boats telling wall street, this is our business. I think that's their differentiator. Is that they're, they're all in. >>Yeah. I, I think they, they try to highlight it by re announcing their private cloud service. I don't even know why they needed to announce that they have a private cloud. GreenLake is a cloud it's is a private cloud >>With block storage, hit disaster recovery. It's like good >>With like everything you get. But I think the, the key is, is that all of that is available today and you can get it in all kinds of frame of, of formats and, and frames specifically, if I'm a customer and I wanna get outta the data center and you, you know, Dave, we go back and forth about this all the time, and I wanna repatriate some workloads to Kubernetes on prem. I don't need to spend up another data center. I can go to Equinix, get GreenLake min IO, object storage on the back end, HPE lighthouse, all those services that I need for Kubernetes and repatriate my workloads without buying a new data center. And I get it as a service. I can get that Dave from HPE GreenLake, Dell apex is on the way. The >>Other thing they're differentiating with Aruba, that's something that Dell doesn't have. Yeah. And, and that is their edge play, I think is stronger than >>Of the others. Mean the, to me, the differentiator for HP is their, their history. Their channel's amazing. They got great Salesforce and they have serious customers and they have serious customers that have serious problems, uh, cyber security, uh, infrastructure, the security paradigm's changed. Uh, the deployment is changed how they deploy applications in their customer base. So they gotta step up to that challenge. And I think their differentiator is gonna be their size, their field and their ability to bring that operating model. And the hybrid model is a steady state. That's clear multi-cloud is just hybrids stitched together, but hybrid cloud, which is basically on premises and cloud to edge operating model is the number one thing that they need to nail. And if they nail that right, they will have a poll position that they could accelerate on. And again, I'm really gonna be watching how well they could enable cloud native developers, okay. To build modern agile applications while solving those serious problems with those serious customers. So again, I think hybrids spun in their direction. I'm not gonna say they got lucky, cuz they've always been on the hybrid bandwagon since we've been covering them. But I thought they'd be for a long day, but they're lucky to have hybrid. That's good for them. And I think do what Microsoft did convert their customers over and they do that, right? >>I think the key to that is gonna be ecosystem. Again, the developers need to see, especially the data piece, they talk about the cloud operating model. I think they're really moving that direction. The data piece to me is the weakest. Like they'll, they'll make claims that we can do anything that the cloud can do. You can't run snowflake, can't run data bricks, can't run Mongo Atlas. So they gotta figure out that data layer and that's optionality of, of data stores. And they don't have that today. >>Yeah. They, they, they have an announcement coming and I can't pre-announce it, but they're, they've, I've deemed them against it. They have the vision, Emeral data services, their data fabric multi-protocol access is a great start. They need the data network behind it. They need the ability to build a super cloud, a across multiple cloud providers, bringing some Google infos love inside of, uh, right next to your data. They have the hardware, they have the infrastructure, but they don't have the services. >>That's a key thing. I think one, you just brought up great point, Keith, and that is, is that at the end of the day, Dave, we're in a market now where agility and speed can be accomplished by startups or any company and HP's customers. Okay. Can move fast too. Okay. And so whoever can extend that value. If HPE can enable value creation for their customers, that's gonna be truly their, their task at hand, they got the channel, they got some leverage, but at the end of the day, the customers have alternatives now and they can move faster to get the value that they need to solve their serious problems. Uh, like cyber, like scalable infrastructure, like infrastructures code, like data ops, like AI ops, it's all here. And it's all coming really fast. Can GreenLake carry the day. And >>By the way, everything we just said about GreenLake in terms of table stakes and everything else, it applies for Dell. >>Yeah, absolutely. >>No question. It does guys. We have, and jam packed three days. We're gonna be talking with the ecosystem. We're gonna be talking with HPE leaders with customers. You're gonna hear all of these, uh, all this information unpacked over the next three days. We will be right back with our first guest for Dave ante, Keith Townson and John furrier. I'm Lisa Martin. Our first guest joins us momentarily.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering you. I pat Forward America's 2019. Brought to you by you, I path Welcome >>back to Las Vegas. Everybody's is Day two of the Cubes coverage of you AI Path forward. Three. This is the third year of North American Conference, and second year the Cube is covered. This Anthony at Batista's here, Cuba. Lami was on last year from from Deloitte. He's a principal there, Anthony. Good to see again. >>Great to be here. Great. >>Yes. So it is. I mean, we've seen the growth of our P A. Generally you AI path, the whole automation were starting to talk about intelligent automation. A. I has its wings, and it's starting toe sore. But give us the update from a year ago. We talked about, you know, accelerating last year. I think it was you had a really good statements around looking, Yes, go on Fast is good, but you wanna accelerate the right things, you know, speeding up for bad processes. Paving the cow path, as I sometimes call it, is really not the way to go. But what's new? >>So I do think there's still some issues around getting programs t to scale and thinking about automation at scale, which has been a major theme here. The conference is still in front of us. People are still figuring out how the climate that curve well, I think is new is way Thought about automation before it was, it was a whore statement was that humans or automation is about going to replace the human on. I really think we've no lights. Always had a campaign about I t a. I that that we kicked off a couple of years ago and said, How do we have automation and humans interact with each other? And I don't just mean attended, attended bots, But how do we actually start to use automation as sort of the glue that hang together a much more rich experience to start to put the components there? So that leads us to the age of with, which is how we how we use technology along with humans, to change their role in there been some great talks. One of my partners earlier they was here with Walmart's, his client on. They talked about how they're redefining the HR processes at Wal Mart on that was That was a really good presentation because they changed the workers work. They didn't replace workers. >>So how was this concept of the age of with how is that different than attended? Boss, can you maybe talk about a possible use case or example? >>So if you think about a call center way, know who's coming in? We used to just look them up and say, Hey, do we know who's calling? Now we can say that we know is calling. Do they have a history with us? Way can use data, and that's another part of the width. Is Dave plus analytics with automation? And we could say, Well, what else do we know about this person to have a history of calling us? They have an open ticket. Have they had some issues or complaints in the past that we can deal with or get in front of on and basically start to put the intelligence in the front end? And that could be unattended, right? That could just be some screen pops around automation way start to introduce natural language. We start to introduce some advanced analytics, and that would be a simple, simple way of enhancing that process. >>So let me double click on that so normally what you would get this year in the other end of the line of the call center. And it's like, Hold on, I'm just reading the notes and you know, they're scanning these notes. It's like an eye test, you know, and they can't. They can't ever get to see. It's a faster for you to just explain. Let me tell you what what I'm imagining is in a different experience where this is happening in near real time, getting pop ups or some other messaging. Is that absolutely experience on how real is this today? >>This Israel. And you know, I I always like to say all them anything. All the main thing is easy if you just take the process, repave the cow path. But it's very real because the natural language components they work up front. Now you can ask some questions you could start to do pre searches on which materials might might help with that type of question. You also can train the process over time. So daily overtime. What's the call satisfaction? Did you actually complete what it was? The call got started about on how quickly you do that so you could train these models and start to use machine learning to actually improve that experience even further. So I think that's left again, back to the whip. It's adding these components. >>I like talking to folks with a consulting background because you know, when you're talking to the vendor community, they get very excited about our why and how you know, lack of disruption to install some software, right? And so that's one of the advantages, I guess, of our P A. As you can pop it into an existing process, good or bad, and get going right away. We've seen this time and time again in the industry. When you have when you have a big force people to change, you know it's slow When you can show Immediate Roo. I start to see these rocket ships at the same time as a consultant, you really want to have a bigger impact on business you don't want to just repeat in automate Bad process is. So how do you work with clients to sort of manage that that insatiable desire for quick R A y, and then the transformative components that. You know, I could maybe defend you from disruption or allow you to be an incumbent disruptor. >>So I think what's interesting is transformation. Use the word we were really good transformation program. So starting to say how that we think of automation first as we do a traditional transformation program is is very near and dear to us now. And instead of saying, Hey, we're gonna bolt the ear piece system and then figure out if we can get some improvement by automating later. We're saying, you know what? Let's sort of double go backwards. Maybe it's a little fashion, but what is this whole process look like? And can we put automation and launch not is a process improvement after lunch? So I think we think of these transformation programmes, But AARP programs for ready and they're doing at automation is now on the tip of the front end of the program rather than afterthought. Reporting used to be >>right, so I mean, >>you guys >>have to be technology agnostic in your business. I mean, we happen to be a U IE path conference, but there, you know, if our p a generally you iPad specifically, it's not a panacea for all problems. I mean, we've talked about a I we talked about other automation process automation capabilities. You've got existing systems. All this stuff has to work together. So so and people always say technology last people process first. You guys lived that, Um So how are you seeing automation evolved in in terms of adoption of the how people are dealing with existing systems and some of the other technologies that you're having to bring together. >>So I think the first thing is, the technology has to work. It has to be bulletproof, resilient. If you're going to put it in these processes and make it make it part of your work life reserving clients or that sort of thing. So first it needs to be bulletproof. That's becoming a given second. I'd like to think that's, well, architected more. Maura's. You bring in a I or other advanced components. You need thio. Be ready to have a changing ecosystem. You know, the best document processing right now might not be the best in six months. So starting to think of your automation solution is that the technical glue and this is allow you to swap out the trade components as you as you refined processes going forward or something new hits the market. So now we're working ecosystem, I think, for the r p a. Vendors that are having great success in a market like you have have they sort of give you that platform, and they give you the off ramps and the on ramps to integrate the other technologies. And like I said, I think that's table stakes in addition, being bulletproof. But the next piece of that is how we get various people involved in the value proposition of creating automation. So various tools and studios, some for the business user that might not be as technical, maybe self designed about it, eh? Process description level on, then maybe a more technical work bench for the technical body builder. So I'm starting to see that in the product suite and somebody announcements here this week. Hallie, we tailor the tools to different users and engage them in that process from one into the other. >>So you mentioned scaling before what the blockers, what's the challenges of scaling? Why's it seemed to be so hard? It's clearly an area of focus here at this event. >>So I think first of all, the technology is is still new to some areas. They're still back and forth with the business or I t led initiative. I think there are some scars and wounds over the last few years of automation where people might have gotten started on the wrong foot. There's even some reduced to learn from. So I think people are looking for the business case. They're getting more comfortable with it. So the job sizes, deal sizes, air getting bigger for the FDA vendors and for us. But I think it's just an evolution. And, like I said, there a lot of stubbed toes early on a nomination. >>What are >>some of the big mistakes that you've seen? People make >>people thinking that it's only a business tool, or only a technology tool or technology to the point that they get started on something that becomes either a real technology problem, a real business problem? Maybe you told the body out in the business, and you attach it to your ear piece system and you cause performance problems or you have security problems on. Then it becomes a real I t problem also seeing the reverse where you know, when I t group will start and say Let's do some automation And they pushed into some departments it might have a fully big business case, might now have good support, and it becomes a technology science project rather than delivery in the real value. >>I was tryingto a week sort of Think about analogies. Analogous ascendance sees in software. I use service now a little bit, but that was kind of a heavy lift. It started an I t. It was very clear. You know, I t You're seeing this massive rapid growth of you ai path fastest growing probably the fastest growing software segment in history and striking to me that we're just now starting to see Cloud come into the play here. If we just you iPad that big announced this week. It's got this new SAS capability, which you would think you would, you know, be born in the cloud. But people have explained why that is. Do you have concerns about the pace of growth and a company like you I path and its competitors their ability to sort of keep up and continue to deliver quality. I mean, a big part of what you guys do is sort of risk management. Well, so how do you manage that risk? >>So I think what you look for if you're going to be in the lion's partner, if you're going the work together and pursue things together first you have to have the basics. It has to be bulletproof. It has to work. When you hit bumps in the road, you have to have escalation pass. That makes sense. And there's growing pains in any firm, or any company that grows grows as quickly as you tap. On the other hand, the question is, your culture is the line. Do you know the fix problems? Do you put your customers first? I think that's what we look like. Look at in the lions, which is how we have a partner with. People have similar DNA about customers first, and you put everything else aside, roll your sleeves up and do the right thing. So that's what we look for in lines like This >>Way. Always talked about the buzzwords of digital transformation, which conferences like this, it is kind of buzzy, but when you talk to customers, they're actually going through digital transformations. And then a couple years ago, they started experimenting. They bought one of everything and they'd run things in parallel with, you know, legacy systems. But now they're starting to place their bets, saying, actually, we've got some use cases that are working. We're gonna double down on the stuff that, you know, we think works. Our p a in some cases fits there. We're gonna unplug some of the legacy stuff and try to deal with our technical debt. But I guess my question is, where do you see our P? A fitting in to that whole digital transformation? Major, I like to think of a matrix where you've got different sets of service is and you've got different industries that are tapping, you know, all data centric that that are tapping these new capabilities and formulating new businesses. News industries. That's how you see this disruption happening. And then the incumbent saying, Hey, we've got assets to we're gonna tap that same matrix and whether it's open source software or cloud or new security paradigms or data and analytics. So where do you see our P? A fitting into that matrix? >>So I think at the glue level. At the architectural level, it can be the orchestrator of the experience of taking a variety technologies integrating them, providing again on ramps and off ramps, doing with a human canoe, looking at screens, analyzing content so it could be the glue that orchestrates those processes orchestrates. Maybe some of the so it was used to be a void between legacy systems and new systems on darky A helps take all that away or level the playing field on. That s So that's has another set of eyes and ears for process integration, our technology integration. And I think that's what it's probably it's best place now. Are there good process tools there? Can we get, you know, community developments? A big discussion right now. I think some people have been successful at it, but it requires a lot of care and feeding and planning to have your community hand the rails or stay between the curbs and do useful things. So I think we're in the beginning of how far can we go with community development? I think the technology is really the glue. >>So community of elven terms of best practice sharing >>and users have developing their own bots. You know, what are the guardrails? Does the process? They're automating matter. Does it introduced a risk? Eyes going to perform. How do you make sure your bots are an evil that people are creating? It's a pretty powerful technology. >>Is their I p in there that you don't want it? We talked about this last year that you don't want to necessarily share with others. So, um, now your role used to have focused specifically in financial service is now you're more horizontal. But how does the light look at this opportunity? Is there is it an automation practice? Is it you cut across all industries with automation, or is it sort of broader than that? >>So my colleague here runs the offering, which is Do we have the people, the training, the tools that delivery centers in the know how to go out and do this kind of work? And we've scaled tremendously in the automation space. The second part is, how do we look to the Jason sees? So we work very closely with our colleagues in a I and ML when we say how we go do the next generation of this out of the gate, How we experiment, how we say, Do you want fries with that as we as we do some of this work. But then we look for the industry in the intersection, and that's where a firm like Lloyd we've got deep, deep industry expertise, way say, well, those intersections where we can go make something happen way come work with our partners are lions you know, partners in making making something happen at an industry specific level, or can we go solve a specific problem? So I think that's what we bring that unique. But we do it both ways. >>It's kind of off off the topic here, but I was talking about that matrix before and again. I'm envisioning technology, horizontal technologies and then vertical industries, and it used to be for decades if you were in it. And if you're in financial service is, you are pretty much stuck in financial service is you had a value chain that was specific to financialservices, and you knew it inside and out, whether it was product development or marketing or sales distribution, whatever it was. That same thing for automobiles on manufacturing, an education on and on and on, and you develop these industry areas of expertise and domain experts with in there. And you guys have built up a global powerhouse doing, But you're seeing a CZ digital. It's cos. Become digital. What's the difference in the business in a digital business? That's how they use data. Data is at the core, and you're now seeing organizations Company's tech company specifically traverse different industries. You're seeing Amazon, you know, in content you're seeing Apple and financialservices other companies getting into health care. >>How is >>that? First of all, you see that and what do you think it was driving that? And how does that affect your business? Or your clients asking youto help you traverse new new industries, get into new industries or defend against others? You know, these big tech companies tryingto with a duel, disruption agenda, trying to take him >>over, and the center of all that you mentioned a little. But the center of that is who the ultimate customers, and we'll experience that they want how they want that experience integrated, so it's not channel by channel anymore. It's which pieces fit together and how I want to buy things and how I want to be serviced. You're getting whole crossed economies around what the consumer wants, unable by technology. I think the other thing that plays into that is you start thinking of the Internet of things and how connected people are. And how do you use monetize and integrate data about particular people and how they want to be served to make that a better experience? I think the consumer ultimately is driving. A lot of that technology is in the billions. >>Yeah, is you think about that picture again. You'd like to use a metaphor of a matrix. I mean, I see our p a is just, you know, one piece of that. You know, there's so many others you mentioned. I o t We talk about a I all the time we talk about Blockchain. It's how you put those different capabilities together and apply them to your business. That really makes the difference. Not that RPG right now feels very tactical, but it's part of a much more strategic agenda. >>Absolutely on again. It could be the glue in an ecosystem of emerging technologies. I do see there's the eyes and ears. The fact that what you get out of the box from regular p. A vendor. Really? Integrate some really, really painful things. Looking at spreadsheets and thinking the guys with green visors column numbers. It's really good at that stuff as, ah, base task. >>Yeah, nothing wrong with tactical and quick. Roo, I So, Anthony, thanks very much for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Great to be here >>to welcome. All right, Keep right, everybody. We're back with our next guest. Day two from you. I path forward in Las Vegas. You watching the cue?

>>live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the Q covering Answerable Fest 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Okay, welcome back. Everyone is the live Cube coverage for two days here in Atlanta, Georgia for instable fest. I'm John Furrier, My Coast stupid in with the Cube. Ted Julian, vice president, product management, formerly CEO. Resilient now part of an IBM company. Back to doing V P of product management. Again, you don't really ask. Welcome to welcome back to the Cube. Good to see you. It's a >>pleasure to be here. Thanks. >>So I see product management. Holistic thinking is the big discussion here. The thing that's coming out of this event is configuration management, a siloed point activity now, more of a platform. You're seeing more of a systems architecture thinking going into some of these platform discussion. Security certainly has been there. They're here now. A lot of pressure, the out of things built in with security but maintaining the onslaught of threats and landscape changes going on. That's what you do. >>It's rough out there. >>What what's going on? What are the key trends that customers should be aware of when thinking about configurations? Because automation can help. Yeah, maybe all use cases, but >>way need to do something and because customers definitely need help. The alerts that they're dealing with them both in the volume and the severity is like nothing we've ever seen before. At the same time we're talking about earlier, right, the regulatory impact also really big difference just in the last two or three years. Huge skills, gap shortage also a critical problem. People can't find enough people to do this work. That's very difficult to keep so clearly we need to do something different. And there's no doubt that orchestration and automation and configuration management, as a component of that is we've barely scratched the surface of the potential there. To help solve some of >>the open source is, is helping a lot of people now. Seeing the light first was cloud, the skeptics said. There's no security and cloud now. There is open source securities there, but still, proprietary systems have security. But the mayor may not be talented. Your point, so automation is an opportunity. How are companies dealing with the mishmash or the multi platform solutions that are out there >>at your right to ask the question it is driving, um, the problem in a big way. Years ago we tried this security automation within security, like in the early days of firewalls and the Web and stuff like that, and it didn't go well. Unintended consequences. But think two things have changed. The environments changed, which has raised the stakes for the need to be able to do this stuff to a whole different level. But at the same time, the technology matured enormously. There's been multiple platforms shifts since then, and so security teams. They're both kind of desperate for a better solution, but also better options now than they had before. And so it's for this reason that we're starting to see people adopt orchestration and automation now in a way that we didn't see in the last time around. >>But the thing is that we were hearing here is that people are trying to automate the same things and some of these holes in the infrastructure, whether it's an S three bucket, this is basic stuff. This is not rocket science. Yeah, so on these known use cases, this makes total sense that a playbook or automation could help kind of feel those holes. >>We talk about it as a journey, you know? And I don't think any two organizations journey is the same, nor does it really even need to be the same. So we've seen some customers, for example, take the approach of what's a high volume type of incident that we deal with. And if we could apply orchestration and automation, they were gonna get great our eye right? We see 4000 phishing attacks every month or what have you. And that's certainly one way to do it. Yeah, but those other times with one, >>though, I have to go >>into that point. There's other people that are like, you know, gathering forensics on an end point right now. Incredibly manual process. We need to be able to do that globally. Do we do it every day? No, we don't. But if we could automate that and get those results back in more like a couple hours, as opposed to two days, because the guy we need in Sweden is out of the office or whatever, that could mean the difference between ah, low level incident were able to contain and something that goes global. And so that's the use case we wanna chase, so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. >>Depends on the environment. Ah, whole host of the whole thing about security is no general purpose software anymore. You have to really make it custom because every environments different. >>I mean, gosh, you guys Aaron Arcee, right? It's nuts. There's thousands of vendors. I mean, there's hundreds of vendors that are really products. They're not the features masquerading as products that are masquerading as companies. But there's a reason why that's been the case, and it's because the risk is so high. >>The desperation to >>yes, exactly good word choice. Yeah. >>So what? One of the things that reminded me of security is this morning hearing about, you know, J P. Morgan going through the transformation from the ticketing system. Tau wait to make a great case study two. I need to be able to automate things. So, you know, we know that response time is so critically important in the security area. So tell us how that meshes together from security and automation toe be able to response, and you know, whether it be patching or, you know, responding to an attack, >>there's huge opportunity gains there on. We've seen customers do some really remarkable things that start with what you're discussing, which is if we could automate that fishing process to a degree and we have 4000 of those a month and we're able to maybe shrink a response time by 80 some or more percent, which is what we've seen. That's a lot of savings right there. And you know, the meat and potatoes there is. You already have a fishing Neil Alias. Probably that that employees report those phishing attacks, too. But what if we just monitored that? We stripped those emails, stripped out the attachments, and we could automate all the manual grunt work that an analyst would otherwise do right? Is that and is there in execute a ble? Is that execute herbal? Unknown bad? What command and control servers is it talk to? Are those known bads those air 10 tabs That analyst could have opening their browser if we could automate all of that. So when they go into the case, it's all just sitting there for them. Huge time saver. >>It's the great proof point of the people plus machines. How do you make make sure that the people that when they get the information, they're not having to do too much grunt work. They get really focused on the things where their expertise in skill sets are needed, as opposed to just buried. You >>nailed it. I mean, automation is a great role to play, but it really is a subset of orchestration. It's when you can bring those two things together and really fuse the people process and technology via orchestration. That's when you get really game changing improvements. >>Talk about the relationship between you guys or silly, unanswerable. Where's the fit? What you guys doing together? Why year give a quick plug for what you working on? >>Yeah, absolutely. So just by working with customers, we kind of discovered that there was this growing groundswell of answerable use within our customer base. It was largely an I T, whereas that IBM resilient. We're selling mainly in a security. Um, and once we uncovered that were like, Oh my gosh, there's all these integrations that already exists. They're already using them for I t use cases on that side of the house, but a lot of the same work needs to be done as part of a security workflow. And so we built our integration where, literally you install that integration into resilient. And we have a visual workflow editor where you can define a sophisticated workflow. And what's that? Integration is in place. All of your instable integrations air there for you. You drag and drop them on near workflow. You can string them all together. I mean, it's really, really powerful. >>It's interesting. Stew and I and David Lattin Ovary Brother Q. Post. We got hundreds of events we see every conference. Everyone's going for the control plane layer. Don't control the data. I mean, it's aspiration, but it's You can't just say it. You gotta earn it. What's happening here is interesting in this country. Configuration management. Little sector is growing up because they control the plumbing, the control of the hardware, the piece parts right to the operating system. So the abstraction lee. It provides great value as it moves up the stack, no doubt, and this is where the impact is, and you guys are seeing it. So this dependency between or the interdependence between software glue that ties the core underpinnings together, whether it's observe ability data. It's not a silo, just context, which they're integrating together. This the collision course? Yeah. What's the impact gonna be here? What's your thesis on this? >>That's why there is such great synergy is because they are really were sort of the domain expertise Doreen experts on the security point of view and our ability to leverage that automation set of functions that answerable provides into this framework where you can define that workflow and all the rest that specific to some security use cases eyes just very, very complimentary to one another. >>This is a new kind of a 2.0 Kana infrastructure dynamic, where this enables program ability. Because if these are the control switch is on the gear and the equipment and the network routes, >>yeah, and where things get really interesting is when you do that in the context of ah, workflow and a case management system, which is part of what we provide, then you get a lot of really valuable metrics that are otherwise lost. If you're purely just at a point to point tool to to automation realm, and that allows you to look at organizational improvements because you're able to marry. Well, first of all, you can do things like better understand what kind of value those I t controls. Air providing you and the automation that you're able to deliver. But you can relate that to your people in your process as well. And so you can see, for example, that while we have two teams, they're doing that the ones in the day shift ones in the night shift. They have access to the same tool sets, but ones more effective than the other. First of all, you know that. But then, having known that you can now drill into that and figure out OK, why is the day shift better than the night shift? And you can say, Oh, well, they're doing things a little bit differently, maybe with how they're orchestrating this other team is, Or maybe they're not orchestrating it. All right? And you're having that. And then now you are able to knowledge share and, um improve that process to drive that continuous improvement. >>So this operational efficiency comes from breaking down these siloed exactly mentality data sets or staff? >>Yeah, and pairing. That was not just as I said, the IittIe automation aspect of weaken now do that 80% faster. But what about the people in the process aspect? We even bring that into the mix as well. You get that next limit layer of insight which kind of allows you to tap into another layer of productivity. >>So this is an alignment issue. This brings that back. The core cultural shift of Dev ups. This is the beginning of what operationalize ng Dev ops looks like. >>Yes. Yeah, >>people are working together. >>It's really, really well put. I mean, it gets back to how this question got started, which is what is this energy? And to me, this energy really is that you have these siloed all too often siloed functions of I t operations and security operations. And this integration between resilient and answerable is the glue that starts to pull those two things together to unlock everything we just talked about. >>Awesome. That's great. >>Yeah, well, you know, research has shown that you know, Dev Ops embracing, delivering and shipping code more frequently actually can improve security. Not You know what? We have to go through this separate process and slow everything down. So are you seeing what? What is that kind of end state organization look like? Oh, >>I mean, that's a huge transformation. And it's something that on the security field we've been struggling with for the longest time, because when we were in kind of a waterfall mode of sort of doing things I mean your timeframe of uncovering a security issue, addressing it in code code, getting deployed to a meaningful enough fashion and over a long enough time to get a benefit that could be years, right? But now that we're in this model, I mean, that could be so much, much more quickly obtained and obviously not only other great just General Roo I improvements that come from that, but your ability to shrink the threat window as a result of this as well as huge and that is crucial because all the same things that us, the good guys they're doing to be able to automate our defenses, the bad guys, they're doing the same thing in terms of how they're automating their attacks. And so we really have to. We have no choice. >>So, Ted, you were acquired by IBM. IBM made quite sizeable acquisition with Red Hat. Tell us what your IBM with danceable. How that should play out >>there is just enormous potential. And answerable is a big, big piece of it, without a doubt. And I think we're just scratching the tip of the iceberg for the benefits. They're just in the from resilience point of view. And, you know, we're not to stay in touch because we have some really interesting things coming down the pike in terms of next gen platforms and the role that that answer will complain those two and how those stretch across the security portfolio with an IBM more broadly and then even beyond that. >>Well, we want to keep in touch. We certainly have initiated Cube coverage this year on security. Cyber little bit going for a broader than the enterprise. Looking at the edge edges. You know about the perimeter. Being just disabled by this new service area takes one penetration lightbulb I p address. So again, organizing and configuring these policy based systems sounds like a configuration problem. Yeah, it is. This is where the software's gonna do it. Ted, Thanks for coming on. Sharing the insights. Any other updates on your front. What do you are most interested in what? Give us a quick update on what you're working on. >>Um, well, we're just getting started with the answerable stuff, so that's particularly notable here, but also kind of modern, modernizing our portfolio, and that really gets to the whole open shift side of the equation and the Red Hat acquisition as well, So not ready to announce anything yet. But some interesting things going on there that that kind of pull this all together and that serve as just one part of the foundation for the marriage between red at 9 p.m. and wanna sneak a value can bring the >>customers any sneak peek at all on the new direct. Sorry time. At least lips sink ships Don't do it. Love to no. >>Blame me for asking. >>Hey, I got a feeling hasn't automation. And somewhere in there Ted, thanks for sharing your insights. It was great to see Cuba coverage here. Danceable fest. I'm jumpers to minimum, breaking out all the action as this new automation feeds A I's gonna change the stack game as data is moving up to stack. This isn't Cube. Bring all the data will be back up to the short break. >>Um

live from austin texas it's the cube covering deli MC world 2016 brought to you by delhi MC now here are your hosts dave vellante and stu minimus welcome back to dell emc world at austin texas 2016 this is the cube the worldwide leader in live tech coverage dale skiffington is here sees the chief privacy officer at dell she's joined by nick koo koo koo roo was a vice president of big data practice at mastercard folks welcome to the cube thanks for coming on thank you having us very important topic a privacy security I like to talk to them as two sides of the same coin but Dale why don't you start it off tell us what you guys are talking about here at Delhi MC world thanks well oftentimes you're right privacy and security are two really different topics to talk about and Nick will cover a lot this afternoon about the importance of securing data in order to have a successful big data program but privacy is also a concern to our shareholders and stakeholders and that is privacy deals with what information do you collect what information how do you use that information and who to whom do you should with whom do you share it and that's a little different than securing the data and our regulators and our customers are getting increasingly concerned about those issues and so it requires some governance some thought to be put into those programs and that's what we're going to talk about today and it's interesting Nick because in 2006 when the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure enabled or required organizations to retain and produce electronic material it instantly became the notion that data was a liability and everybody wanted to understand okay when can i delete it when can I get rid of it and then when this big data mean occurred all of a sudden data becomes an asset in a big way even though it's always been an asset we know that but in a bigger way it was almost like a bit flip and it sort of changed the attitude is that a reasonable description and how did that affect how you approached privacy well part of it is is you're absolutely right he became an asset everyone started wanted to monetize the data that they were carrying because there were great nuggets that set inside that data so we started talking about security you know the original he's talked about personally identifiable information right and that's what everyone's at name address phone numbers you know you many email addresses but then it started to turn into as we started to bring other sources of data such as Facebook Twitter all that data that sits out there in social media together we started to realize other pieces of information needed to be secure as well so now you've broaden the way that you want to take look at security because all this unstructured data starts to come in where you can identify people through a picture a photograph through a twitter feed what you want to be able to say is how do I protect them as much as I protect someone's credit card or someone's personally identifiable name address and phone number tell what talk about your role at Adele it's interesting to have a chief privacy officer on a tail and now of course Delhi MC he opens up a whole new can of worms if I could say that yes so together with our chief information security officer who looks at the policies that procedures around securing data my team is responsible for the policies procedures and controls relating to the use of the data so you know in terms of the reason why our session today is called the ethical use of data is because the laws are lagging a little bit in terms of requiring certain things to be put in place about the use they're starting to develop but what each regulator has said in the US and Europe and elsewhere is they've given companies and technology companies a chance to put in good governance in place and they've asked the companies to put in internal review boards and an accountable responsible individuals in those organizations to make good decisions about the use of data and that's what a chief privacy officer helps the organization do develop the governance structure and help with the accountability of the use of decisions around using data so they obviously the big discussion going on like this inside of MasterCard and Nicki we're talking about everybody wants to monetize the data or figure out how data can help them monetize so how do you deal with that you know analytics and you know you guys talk about the creepy factor I always worried the Amazon knows more about me than I do you know what I'm out of something and I'm reordering and my patterns and and that's kind of creepy so how do you deal with that you know part of what we do and my side of the house is we anonymize the data in many cases for that type of analysis so we try to take that personally identifiable information out of the analysis so again I can we call it an autumn is a shin where we actually on the front end say I don't care who you are what I care about is your are your patterns and can I figure out what those patterns are to create affinities so by taking them out front end and anonymizing the data doing the analysis on it and then potentially at the back end our customers re identifying those people that we have anonymized on the front end that makes it a little bit better because it's no longer a creepy factor per se because when you work with someone like Dale and what the usage of that data is in many cases when you do that analysis it's doing it for the good of that person so that person either a gets a healthier lifestyle be gets to see the products and services that they want to see or want to be able to you know purchase or whatever so again for us it's been able to understand how we protect the individual as you look through the entire analysis string and that's what we do on the advisor size with our customers so that's cool but the chief marketing officer he or she lets you identify that individual you know the the customer of one you know that one-to-one personal interaction how do you square that circle well that's actually we work with the marketing team they always say that well we have a population of 5 million in our database and I want to look at all five minutes like yes you can look at all 5 million but anonymize them because most cases you're going to send us your data scientists and there's 20 or 30 data scientists that could be working on these five million to create your campaigns they don't need to know names phone numbers or addresses so secure the data so that you're not carrying identifiable information through the ecosystem only at the very end when you say out of that population of 5 million mr. marketer here's the half a million that have a high propensity to do what you're asking do is when you re identifier so at that particular point you haven't put 5 million people at risk you've actually put half a million people what you want them to do which is the propensity to purchase or the propensity to taking action so again at the end is when you re identify and say these are the number of these are the people we should be sending a mail or two or an email to or so an offer and that narrows the threat correct matrix if I use that term and and reduces the risk very much stuff to the consumer and obviously to the organization yeah and that's why when we work with people like our privacy officers it's what are you trying to do in the analysis so that we can understand that data usage because that becomes important with what the data is that's carried through the analysis phase you may not have to carry gender you may not have to carry ethnic background you may not have to carry and these other markers that could put someone as Anna you can identify someone with so if we can keep those out it's how you're using the data and the analysis at the end and to follow up on that you know so that's the what the privacy office does it works with the business when they are envisioning a particular use of data and application a product that's going to do some of these analytics we work with them to design that product to avoid some of these risks sometimes you can sometimes the answer is we absolutely need that personal information because that's the purpose of that particular project and in those cases then we look at did you have permission from the data subject to do what you want to do with the data and if not does the society good outweigh the risks and can you mitigate those risks in certain ways so that's the balancing act that we do and that's when we decide when it's past that creepy line or when it hasn't because my role within the company is to advocate for the data subject to make sure that their expectations are being met by Del I wonder if we can unpack another use case which is fraud detection which is advanced so rapidly in the last 10 years it used to be six months and you find maybe something happened you had a look at your own statements and now you're getting texts and very proactive but certainly a lot of information has to be accessible but it's very narrow in terms of the individual can you talk about that using yeah the one thing that we find from our customers are the people we work with when you talk about fraud people don't mind that you're watching because you're reducing their liability you're reducing someone from stealing that credit card from them or being able to run up charges so when you talk about protecting someone protecting someone's digitalpersona their wallet they're willing to give and take a little bit on what information they provide to you they don't mind that you know that Pam in austin texas today and then someone's trying to charge in you know guitar at the same day they understand that it's not a privacy issue but i want to ask you about the pendulum is kind of swung like I said it used to be it would take forever to find out if there was some kind of fraud and then it became like this flawed of false positives and and and it seems to be getting better and presumably it's because a big data analytics but I wonder if you could talk absolutely our fraud teams matter of fact at mastercard we work very hard to reduce the false positives because that creates a bad experience for both the user as well as the issue of that card right so what we try to do all the times you can continue to do learning machine learning the artificial intelligence how to reduce that as you also look at people's patterns is this person a professional traveler or always traveling so that goes into the algorithm which are take a look at a false positive around fraud do they buy these types of goods with their credit cards so going you start to look at the protection and you start to add those rules into it and you start to actually reduce it it's all about learning it's not just one and done those algorithms have to be constantly updated in real time in some cases so that you're constantly in a learning phase you're building models and iterating those models and that's always a challenge but I'd love to talk about that if we have time but but I wanted to ask you Dale talk about deep learning Michael was talking a lot about machine learning and deep learning and part of his visionary discussion this morning what's the role of transparency how do you guide your constituents in terms of transparency what are the guidelines how transparent when to be trans Aaron yeah that's a great question and you know transparency was where the privacy profession lived 10 years ago it was all about giving the consumers notice about why you're collecting the data and using it consistent with that notice and being very visible with privacy statements and you know there's lots of laws around that now where you have to give specific notices the problem with big data is the power of it is using the data in ways that you didn't envision when you collected the data and that is the dilemma for privacy and big data and that's where the privacy community is trying to develop some tools for organizations to do a balancing act of okay the consumer didn't know that when they gave you that data it was going to be used for this purpose but they're not it's good its tangential to that use so that would be an acceptable use but if it's going to so surprised the consumer that you're using the data for you really need to go back and get reap Reaper missioned and in some countries it's an opt-in permission I'm going to mix Pam law spam and do not call laws seem trivial doesn't it you were mentioning off camera that I think it's your CISO is participates in public policy through the Obama administration is that as that was it you say so it's part of our DNA is security and securing the data our CEOs made a tremendous commitment to make sure that we can apply our best practices into and help the community understand how to make sure the data is secure because that's a digital persona we consider ourselves to be stewards of data not owners of data someone has entrusted us with that we want to make sure that we're constantly contributing back how to make sure it's secure and used right as we take a look at that how about regional nuances local laws haha describe sort of what you're seeing there how you address those complexities yeah so a good example is the new European regulation that's going into effect may of 2018 that has a new specific requirement about profiling automated decision that's used for marketing purposes you have to have an opt-in for using that data companies are going to struggle with how to implement that but nonetheless it's a new law and that law has four percent of annual revenue as a potential penalty Wow so it may get this straight you have to opt-in to be automated profiled automated profiling where it's going to be used for certain types of purposes decisions and you know what they're really trying to avoid is the things that the Obama administration came out with a big data report as well discrimination decisions that are made about insurance and credit etc that are automated decisions and then marketing decisions on those you know with that data the law now requires very specific opt-in and and transparency boy that's going to be tricky yeah the other thing for us is which was just described as working with people is the ability to tag that data as it's being brought in so as you think a big day that ingestion that tagging of that data and carrying the metadata what types of data needs to be tagged what types of data you have to be watching out for was it an opt-in versus an opt-out all that adds into understanding the power of what big data can do to protect both the individual and the company from being able to do something wrong with information so the nice part is with big data you can do that so again we're working with our customers and with the privacy officers understand how you do your data classifications what data needs to be tagged and then to be able to follow that full lineage through the entire ecosystem and obviously that has to be done at the point of creation correct otherwise it's it's not going to scale and and technology helps you solve that problem and that's been a challenge for years but it's a day where that actually works now yeah there's a lot of great partners and we're here at you know Dell world WMC world and they're here as well to help on that ingestion of data as it's coming in to start to tag it and to start to index and catalog it if that's the power of what big data can help you with because before you had to do it individually now you can actually use the tools you can use AI to actually understand about that information coming in to do that tagging to create that lineage it's very very important and very powerful especially as we start looking at what's coming down the road till you get involved in in helping guide solutions is that sir we have a process that is called the privacy impact assessment process and it's in the life cycle development of our products and services so much like the security reviews that are done when we when we commercialize a product we now are interjecting ourselves with a privacy review so if that project or product development or application is intending to use big data analytics as part of it we will we will help guide the business whether they need to build in opt-in consents what it is that what do they want to do with the product and what kinds of things are from a compliance perspective there do they need to build in so that we are at the table with our business partners all right we got a rep and Nick I'll give you the last word to mean so festive as the big data analytics I'll call you a visionary you know what's the future hold where's your focus in the next you know near the midterm you know under stay right with the ethics world and and probably always tell people what we're asking now is just because you have the data doesn't mean you have to use the data just because you have that information you've got to become a parent and start to be able to put some parameters around how that data is use so people in the privacy world you need to bring them to the table so again just because you have it doesn't mean you should be using it and now it's better to be a parent then just let people run crazy right Nick Goodell thanks very much for coming too i love this conversation is fascinating thank you for working do all right keep right to everybody will be back this is dell emc world from Austin Texas this is the cube right back