>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020, hosted by Cal Poly. >> Everyone, welcome to this special presentation with Cal Poly hosting the Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020 virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host with theCUBE and SiliconANGLE here in our Palo Alto studios with our remote guests. We couldn't be there in person, but we're going to be here remote. We got a great session and a panel for one hour, topic preparing students for the jobs of today and tomorrow. Got a great lineup. Bill Britton, Lieutenant Colonel from the US Air Force, retired vice president for information technology and CIO and the director of the California Cybersecurity Institute for Cal Poly. Bill, thanks for joining us. Dr. Amy Fleischer, who's the dean of the College of Engineering at Cal Poly, and Trung Pham, professor and researcher at the US Air Force Academy. Folks, thanks for joining me today. >> Our pleasure. >> Got a great- >> Great to be here. >> Great panel. This is one of my favorite topics. >> Thank you for the opportunity. >> Preparing students for the next generation, the jobs for today and tomorrow. We got an hour. I'd love you guys to start with an opening statement to kick things off. Bill, we'll start with you. >> Well, I'm really pleased to be, to start on this as the director for the Cybersecurity Institute and the CIO at Cal Poly, it's really a fun, exciting job, because as a polytechnic, technology has such a forefront in what we're doing, and we've had a wonderful opportunity being 40 miles from Vandenberg Air Force Base to really look at the nexus of space and cybersecurity. And if you add into that both commercial, government, and civil space and cybersecurity, this is an expanding wide open time for cyber and space. In that role that we have with the Cybersecurity Institute, we partner with elements of the state and the university, and we try to really add value above our academic level, which is some of the highest in the nation, and to really merge down and go a little lower and start younger. So we actually are running the week prior to this showing a cybersecurity competition for high schools and middle schools in the state of California. That competition this year is based on a scenario around hacking of a commercial satellite and the forensics of the payload that was hacked and the networks associated with it. This is going to be done using products like Wireshark, Autopsy, and other tools that will give those high school students what we hope is a huge desire to follow up and go into cyber and cyberspace and space and follow that career path and either come to Cal Poly or some other institution that's going to let them really expand their horizons in cybersecurity and space for the future of our nation. >> Bill, thanks for that intro. By the way, I just want to give you props for an amazing team and job you guys are doing at Cal Poly, the DxHub and the efforts you guys are having with your challenge. Congratulations on that great work. >> Thank you. It's a rock star team. It's absolutely amazing to find that much talent at one location. And I think Amy's going to tell you, she's got the same amount of talent in her staff, so it's a great place to be. >> Dr. Amy Fleischer. You guys have a great organization down there, amazing curriculum, amazing people, great community. Your opening statement. >> Hello everybody. It's really great to be a part of this panel on behalf of the Cal Poly College of Engineering. Here at Cal Poly, we really take preparing students for the jobs of today and tomorrow completely seriously, and we can claim that our students really graduate so they're ready day one for their first real job. But that means that in getting them to that point, we have to help them get valuable and meaningful job experience before they graduate, both through our curriculum and through multiple internship or summer research opportunities. So we focus our curriculum on what we call a learn by doing philosophy. And this means that we have a combination of practical experience and learn by doing both in and out of the classroom. And we find that to be really critical for preparing students for the workforce. Here at Cal Poly, we have more than 6,000 engineering students. We're one of the largest undergraduate engineering schools in the country. And US News ranks us the eighth best undergraduate engineering program in the country and the top ranked state school. We're really, really proud that we offer this impactful hands-on engineering education that really exceeds that of virtually all private universities while reaching a wider audience of students. We offer 14 degree programs, and really, we're talking today about cyber and space, and I think most of those degree programs can really make an impact in the space and cybersecurity economy. And this includes not only things like aero and cyber directly, but also electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, computer engineering, materials engineering, even manufacturing, civil, and biomedical engineering, as there's a lot of infrastructure needs that go into supporting launch capabilities. Our aerospace program graduates hundreds of aerospace engineers and most of them are working right here in California with many of our corporate partners, including Northrop Grumman, Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon, SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, JPL, and so many other places where we have Cal Poly engineers impacting the space economy. Our cybersecurity focus is found mainly in our computer science and software engineering programs, and it's really a rapidly growing interest among our students. Computer science is our most popular major, and industry interests and partnerships are integrated into our cyber curriculum, and we do that oftentimes through support from industry. So we have partnerships with Northrop Grumman for professorship in a cyber lab and from PG&E for critical infrastructure cybersecurity lab and professorship. And we think that industry partnerships like these are really critical to preparing students for the future as the field is evolving so quickly and making sure we adapt our facilities and our curriculum to stay in line with what we're seeing in industry is incredibly important. In our aerospace program, we have an educational partnership with the Air Force Research Labs that's allowing us to install new high-performance computing capabilities and a space environments lab that's going to enhance our satellite design capabilities. And if we talk about satellite design, Cal Poly is the founding home of the CubeSat program, which pioneered small satellite capabilities, And we remain the worldwide leader in maintaining the CubeSat standard, and our student program has launched more CubeSats than any other program. So here again we have this learn by doing experience every year for dozens of aerospace, electrical, computer science, mechanical engineering students, and other student activities that we think are just as important include ethical hacking through our white hat club, Cal Poly Space Systems, which does really, really big rocket launches, and our support program for women in both of these fields, like WISH, which is Women In Software and Hardware. Now, you know, really trying to bring in a wide variety of people into these fields is incredibly important, and outreach and support to those demographics traditionally underrepresented in these fields is going to be really critical to future success. So by drawing on the lived experiences by people with different types of backgrounds will we develop the type of culture and environment where all of us can get to the best solution. So in terms of bringing people into the field, we see that research shows we need to reach kids when they're in late elementary and middle schools to really overcome that cultural bias that works against diversity in our fields. And you heard Bill talking about the California Cybersecurity Institute's yearly cyber challenge, and there's a lot of other people who are working to bring in a wider variety of people into the field, like Girl Scouts, which has introduced dozens of new badges over the past few years, including a whole cybersecurity series of badges in concert with Palo Alto Networks. So we have our work cut out for us, but we know what we need to do, and if we're really committed to properly preparing the workforce for today and tomorrow, I think our future is going to be bright. I'm looking forward to our discussion today. >> Thank you, Dr. Fleischer, for a great comment, opening statement, and congratulations. You got the right formula down there, the right mindset, and you got a lot of talent, and community, as well. Thank you for that opening statement. Next up, from Colorado Springs, Trung Pham, who's a professor and researcher at the US Air Force Academy. He's doing a lot of research around the areas that are most important for the intersection of space and technology. Trung. >> Good afternoon. First I'd like to thank Cal Poly for the opportunity. And today I want to go briefly about cybersecurity in space application. Whenever we talk about cybersecurity, the impression is that it's a new field that is really highly complex involving a lot of technical area. But in reality, in my personal opinion, it is indeed a complex field because it involves many disciplines. The first thing we think about is computer engineering and computer networking, but it's also involving communication, sociology, law practice. And this practice of cybersecurity doesn't only involve computer expert, but it's also involve everybody else who has a computing device that is connected to the internet, and this participation is obviously everybody in today's environment. When we think about the internet, we know that it's a good source of information but come with the convenience of information that we can access, we are constantly facing danger from the internet. Some of them we might be aware of. Some of them we might not be aware of. For example, when we search on the internet, a lot of time our browser will be saying that this site is not trusted, so we will be more careful. But what about the sites that we trusted? We know that those are legitimate sites, but they're not 100% bulletproof. What happen if those site are attacked by a hacker and then they will be a silent source of danger that we might not be aware of. So in the reality, we need to be more practicing the cybersecurity from our civil point of view and not from a technical point of view. When we talk about space application, we should know that all the hardware are computer-based or controlled by by computer system, and therefore the hardware and the software must go through some certification process so that they can be rated as airworthy or flightworthy. When we know that in the certification process is focusing on the functionality of the hardware and software, but one aspect that is explicitly and implicitly required is the security of those components. And we know that those components have to be connected with the ground control station, and the communication is through the air, through the radio signal, so anybody who has access to those communication radio signal will be able to control the space system that we put up there. And we certainly do not want our system to be hijacked by a third party. Another aspect of cybersecurity is that we try to design the space system in a very strong manner so it's almost impossible to hack in. But what about some other weak system that might be connected to the strong system? For example, the space system will be connected to the ground control station, and on the ground control station, we have the human controller, and those people have cell phone. They are allowed to use cell phone for communication. But at the same time, they are connected to the internet through the cell phone, and their cell phone might be connected to the computer that control the flight software and hardware. So what I want to say is we try to build strong system and we've protected them, but there will be some weaker system that we could not intended but exists to be connected to our strong system, and those are the points the hacker will be trying to attack. If we know how to control the access to those weak points, we will be having a much better system for the space system. And when we see the cybersecurity that is requiring the participation everywhere it's important to notice that there is a source of opportunity for students who enter the workforce to consider. Obviously students in engineering can focus their knowledge and expertise to provide technological solution to protect the system that we view. But we also have students in business who can focus their expertise to write business plan so that they can provide a pathway for the engineering advances to reach the market. We also have student in law who can focus their expertise in policy governing the internet, governing the cybersecurity practice. And we also have student in education who can focus their expertise to design how to teach cybersecurity practice, and student in every other discipline can focus their effort to implement security measure to protect the system that they are using in their field. So it's obvious that cybersecurity is everywhere and it implies job opportunity everywhere for everybody in every discipline of study. Thank you. >> Thank you, Trung, for those great comments. Great technology opportunities. But interesting, as well, is the theme that we're seeing across the entire symposium and in the virtual hallways that we're hearing conversations, and you pointed out some of them. Dr. Fleischer did, as well. And Bill, you mentioned it. It's not one thing. It's not just technology. It's different skills. And Amy, you mentioned that computer science is the hottest degree, but you have the hottest aerospace program in the world. I mean, so all this is kind of balancing. It's interdisciplinary. It's a structural change. Before we get into some of the, how they prepare the students, can you guys talk about some of the structural changes that are modern now in preparing in these opportunities, because societal impact is a, law potentially impact, it's how we educate. There's now cross-discipline skill sets. It's not just get the degree, see you out in the field. Bill, you want to start? >> Well, what's really fun about this job is that in the Air Force, I worked in the space and missile business, and what we saw was a heavy reliance on checklist format, security procedures, analog systems, and what we're seeing now in our world, both in the government and the commercial side, is a move to a digital environment, and the digital environment is a very quick and adaptive environment, and it's going to require a digital understanding. Matter of fact, the undersecretary of Air Force for acquisition recently referenced the need to understand the digital environment and how that's affecting acquisition. So as both Amy and Trung said, even business students are now in the cybersecurity business. And so again, what we're seeing is the change. Now, another phenomenon that we're seeing in the space world is there's just so much data. One of the ways that we addressed that in the past was to look at high-performance computing. There was a lot stricter control over how that worked. But now what we're seeing is adaptation of cloud, cloud technologies in space support, space data, command and control. And so what we see is a modern space engineer who has to understand digital, has to understand cloud, and has to understand the context of all those with a cyber environment. That's really changing the forefront of what is a space engineer, what is a digital engineer, and what is a future engineer, both commercial or government. So I think the opportunity for all of these things is really good, particularly for a polytechnic, Air Force Academy, and others that are focusing on a more widened experiential level of cloud and engineering and other capabilities. And I'll tell you the part that as the CIO I have to remind everybody, all this stuff works with the IT stuff. So you've got to understand how your IT infrastructures are tied and working together. As we noted earlier, one of the things is that these are all relays from point to point, and that architecture is part of your cybersecurity architecture. So again, every component has now become a cyber aware, cyber knowledgeable, and what we like to call as a cyber cognizant citizen where they have to understand the context. (speaking on mute) >> (indistinct) software Dr. Fleischer, talk about your perspective, 'cause you mentioned some of the things about computer science. I remember in the '80s when I got my computer science degree, they called us software engineers and then you became software developers. And then, so again, engineering is the theme. If you're engineering a system, there's now software involved, and there's also business engineering, business models. So talk about some of your comments, 'cause you mentioned computer science is hot. You got the aerospace. You got these multi-disciplines. You got definitely diversity, as well, brings more perspectives in, as well. Your thoughts on these structural interdisciplinary things? >> I think this is really key to making sure that students are prepared to work in the workforce is looking at the blurring between fields. No longer are you just a computer scientist. No longer are you just an aerospace engineer. You really have to have an expertise where you can work with people across disciplines. All of these fields are just working with each other in ways we haven't seen before. And Bill brought up data. You know, data science is something that's cross-cutting across all of our fields. So we want engineers that have the disciplinary expertise that they can go deep into these fields, but we want them to be able to communicate with each other and to be able to communicate across disciplines and to be able to work in teams that are across disciplines. You can no longer just work with other computer scientists or just work with other aerospace engineers. There's no part of engineering that is siloed anymore. So that's how we're changing. You have to be able to work across those disciplines. And as you, as Trung pointed out, ethics has to come into this. So you can no longer try to fully separate what we would traditionally have called the liberal arts and say, well, that's over there in general education. No, ethics is an important part of what we're doing and how we integrate that into our curriculum. So is communication. So is working on public policy and seeing where all these different aspects tie together to make the impact that we want to have in the world. So you no longer can work solo in these fields. >> That's great point. And Bill also mentioned the cloud. One thing about the cloud that's showed us is horizontal scalability has created a lot of value, and certainly data is now horizontal. Trung, you mentioned some of the things about cryptography for the kids out there, I mean, you can look at the pathway for career. You can do a lot of tech, but you don't have to go deep sometimes. You can as deep as you want, but there's so much more there. What technology do you see that's going to help students, in your opinion? >> Well, I'm a professor in computer science, so I like to talk a little bit about computer programming. Now we are working in complex projects. So most of the time we don't design a system from scratch. We build it from different components, and the components that we have, either we get it from vendors or sometimes we get it from the internet in the open source environment. It's fun to get the source code and then make it work to our own application. So now when we are looking at cryptology, when we talk about encryption, for example, we can easily get the source code from the internet. And the question, is it safe to use those source code? And my question is maybe not. So I always encourage my students to learn how to write source code the traditional way that I learned a long time ago before I allow them to use the open source environment. And one of the things that they have to be careful especially with encryption is the code that might be hidden in the source that they downloaded. Some of the source might be harmful. It might open up back gate for a hacker to get in later. We've heard about these back gates back then when Microsoft designed the operating system with the protection of encryption, and it is true that is existing. So while open source code is a wonderful place to develop complex system, but it's also a dangerous place that we have to be aware of. >> Great point. Before we get into the comments, one quick thing for each of you I'd like to get your comments on. There's been a big movement on growth mindset, which has been a great big believer in having a growth mindset and learning and all that good stuff. But now when you talk about some of these things we're mentioning about systems, there's a new trend around a systems mindset, because if everything's now a system, distributed systems now you have space and cybersecurity, you have to understand the consequences of changes. And you mention some of that, Trung, in changes in the source code. Could you guys share your quick opinions on the of systems thinking? Is that a mindset that people should be looking at? Because it used to be just one thing. Oh, you're a systems guy or gal. There you go. You're done. Now it seems to be in social media and data, everything seems to be systems. What's your take? Dr. Fleischer, we'll start with you. >> I'd say it's another way of looking at not being just so deep in your discipline. You have to understand what the impact of the decisions that you're making have on a much broader system. And so I think it's important for all of our students to get some exposure to that systems level thinking and looking at the greater impact of the decision that they're making. Now, the issue is where do you set the systems boundary, right? And you can set the systems boundary very close in and concentrate on an aspect of a design, or you can continually move that system boundary out and see where do you hit the intersections of engineering and science along with ethics and public policy and the greater society. And I think that's where some of the interesting work is going to be. And I think at least exposing students and letting them know that they're going to have to make some of these considerations as they move throughout their career is going to be vital as we move into the future. >> Bill, what's your thoughts? >> I absolutely agree with Amy. And I think there's a context here that reverse engineering and forensics analysis and forensics engineering are becoming more critical than ever. The ability to look at what you have designed in a system and then tear it apart and look at it for gaps and holes and problem sets. Or when you're given some software that's already been pre-developed, checking it to make sure it is really going to do what it says it's going to do. That forensics ability becomes more and more a skillset that also you need the verbal skills to explain what it is you're doing and what you found. So the communication side, the systems analysis side, the forensics analysis side, these are all things that are part of system approach that I think you could spend hours on and we still haven't really done a great job on it. So it's one of my fortes is really the whole analysis side of forensics and reverse engineering. >> Trung, real quick, systems thinking, your thoughts. >> Well, I'd like to share with you my experience when I worked in the space station program at NASA. We had two different approaches. One is a compound approach where we design it from the system general point of view where we put components together to be a complex system. But at the same time, we have the (indistinct) approach where we have an engineer who spent time and effort building individual component and they have to be expert in those tiny component that general component they deliver. And in the space station program, we bring together the (indistinct) engineer who designed everything in detail and the system manager who managed the system design from the top down, and we meet in the middle, and together we compromised a lot of differences and we delivered the space station that we are operating today. >> Great insight. And that's the whole teamwork collaboration that Dr. Fleischer was mentioning. Thanks so much for that insight. I wanted to get that out there because I know myself as a parent, I'm always trying to think about what's best for my kids and their friends as they grow up into the workforce. I know educators and leaders in industry would love to know some of the best practices around some of the structural changes. So thanks for that insight. But this topic's about students and helping them prepare. So we heard be multiple discipline, broaden your horizons, think like systems, top down, bottom up, work together as a team, and follow the data. So I got to ask you guys, there's a huge amount of job openings in cybersecurity. It's well-documented. And certainly with the intersection of space and cyber, it's only going to get bigger, right? You're going to see more and more demand for new types of jobs. How do we get high school and college students interested in security as a career? Dr. Fleischer, we'll start with you on this one. I would say really one of the best ways to get students interested in a career is to show them the impact that it's going to have. There's definitely always going to be students who are going to want to do the technology for the technology's sake, but that will limit you to a narrow set of students, and by showing the greater impact that these types of careers are going to have on the types of problems that you're going to be able to solve and the impact you're going to be able to have on the world around you, that's the word that we really need to get out. And a wide variety of students really respond to these messages. So I think it's really kind of reaching out at the elementary, the middle school level, and really kind of getting this idea that you can make a big difference, a big positive difference in the field with some of these careers, is going to be really critical. >> Real question to follow up. What do you think is the best entry point? You mentioned middle. I didn't hear elementary school. There's a lot of discussions around pipelining, and we're going to get into women in tech and underrepresented minorities later. But is it too early, or what's your feeling on this? >> My feeling is the earlier we can normalize it, the better. If you can normalize an interest in computers and technology and building in elementary school, that's absolutely critical. But the drop-off point that we're seeing is between what I would call late elementary and early middle school. And just kind of as an anecdote, I for years ran an outreach program for Girl Scouts in grades four and five and grade six, seven, and eight. And we had 100 slots in each program. And every year the program would sell out for girls in grades four and five, and every year we'd have spots remaining in grades six, seven, and eight. And that's literally where the drop-off is occurring between that late elementary and that middle school range. So that's the area that we need to target to make sure we keep those young women involved and interested as we move forward. >> Bill, how are we going to get these kids interested in security? You mentioned a few programs you got. >> Yeah. >> I mean, who wouldn't want to be a white hat hacker? I mean, that sounds exciting. >> So yeah, great questions. Let's start with some basic principles, though, is let me ask you a question, John. Name for me one white hat, good person hacker, the name, who works in the space industry and is an exemplar for students to look up to. >> You? >> Oh man, I'm feeling really... >> I'm only, I can't imagine a figure- >> (indistinct) the answer because the answer we normally get is the cricket sound. So we don't have individuals we've identified in those areas for them to look up to. >> I was going to be snarky and say most white hackers won't even use their real name, but... >> Right, so there's an aura around their anonymity here. So again, the real question is how do we get them engaged and keep them engaged? And that's what Amy was pointing out to exactly, the engagement and sticking with it. So one of the things that we're trying to do through our competition on the state level and other elements is providing connections. We call them ambassadors. These are people in the business who can contact the students that are in the game or in that challenge environment and let 'em interact and let 'em talk about what they do and what they're doing in life. But give them a challenging game format. A lot of computer-based training, capture the flag stuff is great, but if you can make it hands-on, if you can make it a learn by doing experiment, if you can make it personally involved and see the benefit as a result of doing that challenge and then talk to the people who do that on a daily basis, that's how you get them involved. The second part is part of what we're doing is we're involving partnership companies in the development of the teams. So this year's competition that we're running has 82 teams from across the state of California. Of those 82 teams at six students a team, middle school, high school, and many of those have company partners, and these are practitioners in cybersecurity who are working with those students to participate. It's that adult connectivity. It's that visualization. So at the competition this year, we have the founder of Defcon Red Flag is a participant to talk to the students. We have Vint Cerf, who is, of course, very well-known for something called the internet, to participate. It's really getting the students to understand who's in this, who can I look up to, and how do I stay engaged with them? >> There's definitely a celebrity aspect of it, I will agree. I mean, the influencer aspect here with knowledge is key. Can you talk about these ambassadors, and how far along are you on that program? First of all, the challenge stuff is, anything gamification-wise, we've seen that with hackathons, it just really works well. Creates bonding. People who create together can get sticky and get very high community aspect to it. Talk about this ambassador thing. What is that, industry, is that academic? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What is this ambassador thing? >> Industry partners that we've identified, some of which, and I won't hit all of 'em, so I'm sure I'll short change this, but Palo Alto, Cisco, Splunk, many of the companies in California, and what we've done is identified schools to participate in the challenge that may not have a strong STEM program or have any cyber program. And the idea of the company is they look for their employees who are in those school districts to partner with the schools to help provide outreach. It could be as simple as a couple hours a week, or it's a team support captain or it's providing computers and other devices to use. And so again, it's really about a constant connectivity and trying to help where some schools may not have the staff or support units in an area to really provide them what they need for connectivity. What that does is it gives us an opportunity to not just focus on it once a year, but throughout the year. So for the competition, all the teams that are participating have been receiving training and educational opportunities in the gamification side since they signed up to participate. So there's a website, there's learning materials, there's materials provided by certain vendor companies like Wireshark and others. So it's a continuum of opportunity for the students. >> You know, I've seen, just randomly, just got a random thought. Robotics clubs are moving then closer into that middle school area, Dr. Fleischer, and in certainly in high schools, it's almost like a varsity sport. E-sports is another one. My son just called me. "I made the JV at the college team." It's big and serious, right? And it's fun. This is the aspect of fun. It's hands-on. This is part of the culture down there. Learn by doing. Is there, like, a group? Is it, like, a club? I mean, how do you guys organize these bottoms-up organically interest topics? >> So here in the college of engineering, when we talk about learn by doing, we have learned by doing both in the classroom and out of the classroom. And if we look at these types of out of the classroom activities, we have over 80 clubs working on all different aspects, and many of these are bottom-up. The students have decided what they want to work on and have organized themselves around that. And then they get the leadership opportunities. The more experienced students train the less experienced students. And it continues to build from year after year after year with them even doing aspects of strategic planning from year to year for some of these competitions. Yeah, it's an absolutely great experience. And we don't define for them how their learn by doing experiences should be. We want them to define it. And I think the really cool thing about that is they have the ownership and they have the interest and they can come up with new clubs year after year to see which direction they want to take it, and we will help support those clubs as old clubs fade out and new clubs come in. >> Trung, real quick, before we go on the next talk track, what do you recommend for middle school, high school, or even elementary? A little bit of coding, Minecraft? I mean, how do you get 'em hooked on the fun and the dopamine of technology and cybersecurity? What's your take on that? >> On this aspect, I'd like to share with you my experience as a junior high and high school student in Texas. The university of Texas in Austin organized a competition for every high school in Texas in every field from poetry to mathematics to science, computer engineering. But it's not about the University of Texas. The University of Texas is only serving as a center for the final competition. They divide the competition to district and then regional and then state. At each level, we have local university and colleges volunteering to host the competition and make it fun for the student to participate. And also they connected the students with private enterprises to raise fund for scholarship. So student who see the competition is a fun event for them, they get exposed to different university hosting the event so that they can see different option for them to consider college. They also get a promise that if they participate, they will be considered for scholarship when they attend university and college. So I think the combination of fun and competition and the scholarship aspect will be a good thing to entice the student to commit to the area of cybersecurity. >> Got the engagement, the aspiration, scholarship, and you mentioned a volunteer. I think one of the things I'll observe is you guys are kind of hitting this as community. I mean, the story of Steve Jobs and Woz building the Mac, they called Bill Hewlett up in Palo Alto. He was in the phone book. And they scoured some parts from him. That's community. This is kind of what you're getting at. So this is kind of the formula we're seeing. So the next question I really want to get into is the women in technology, STEM, underrepresented minorities, how do we get them on cybersecurity career path? Is there a best practices there? Bill, we'll start with you. >> Well, I think it's really interesting. First thing I want to add is, if I could, just a clarification. What's really cool, the competition that we have and we're running, it's run by students from Cal Poly. So Amy referenced the clubs and other activities. So many of the organizers and developers of the competition that we're running are the students, but not just from engineering. So we actually have theater and liberal arts majors and technology for liberal arts majors who are part of the competition, and we use their areas of expertise, set design and other things, visualization, virtualization. Those are all part of how we then teach and educate cyber in our gamification and other areas. So they're all involved and they're learning, as well. So we have our students teaching other students. So we're really excited about that. And I think that's part of what leads to a mentoring aspect of what we're providing where our students are mentoring the other students. And I think it's also something that's really important in the game. The first year we held the game, we had several all-girl teams, and it was really interesting because A, they didn't really know if they could compete. I mean, this is their reference point. We don't know if. They did better than anybody. I mean, they just, they knocked the ball out of the park. The second part, then, is building that confidence level that can, going back and telling their cohorts that, hey, it's not this obtuse thing you can't do. It's something real that you can compete and win. And so again, it's building that camaraderie, that spirit, that knowledge that they can succeed. And I think that goes a long way. And Amy's programs and the reach out and the reach out that Cal Poly does to schools to develop, I think that's what it really is going to take. It is going to take that village approach to really increase diversity and inclusivity for the community. >> Dr. Fleischer, I'd love to get your thoughts. You mentioned your outreach program and the drop-off, some of those data. You're deeply involved in this. You're passionate about it. What's your thoughts on this career path opportunity for STEM? >> Yeah, I think STEM is an incredible career path opportunity for so many people. There's so many interesting problems that we can solve, particularly in cyber and in space systems. And I think we have to meet the kids where they are and kind of show them what the exciting part is about it, right? But Bill was alluding to this when he was talking about trying to name somebody that you can point to. And I think having those visible people where you can see yourself in that is absolutely critical, and those mentors and that mentorship program. So we use a lot of our students going out into California middle schools and elementary schools. And you want to see somebody that's like you, somebody that came from your background and was able to do this. So a lot of times we have students from our National Society of Black Engineers or our Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers or our Society of Women Engineers, which we have over 1,000 members, 1,000 student members in our Society of Women Engineers who are doing these outreach programs. But like I also said, it's hitting them at the lower levels, too, and Girl Scouts is actually distinguishing themselves as one of the leading STEM advocates in the country. And like I said, they developed all these cybersecurity badges starting in kindergarten. There's a cybersecurity badge for kindergartener and first graders. And it goes all the way up through late high school. The same thing with space systems. And they did the space systems in partnership with NASA. They did the cybersecurity in partnership with Palo Alto Networks. And what you do is you want to build these skills that the girls are developing, and like Bill said, work in girl-led teams where they can do it, and if they're doing it from kindergarten on, it just becomes normal, and they never think, well, this is not for me. And they see the older girls who are doing it and they see a very clear path leading them into these careers. >> Yeah, it's interesting, you used the word normalization earlier. That's exactly what it is. It's life, you get life skills and a new kind of badge. Why wouldn't you learn how to be a white hat hacker or have some fun or learn some skills? >> Amy: Absolutely. >> Just in the grind of your fun day. Super exciting. Okay, Trung, your thoughts on this. I mean, you have a diverse, diversity brings perspective to the table in cybersecurity because you have to think like the other guy, the adversary. You got to be the white hat. You can't be a white hat unless you know how black hat thinks. So there's a lot of needs here for more points of view. How are we going to get people trained on this from underrepresented minorities and women? What's your thoughts? >> Well, as a member of the IEEE Professional Society of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, every year we participate in the engineering week. We deploy our members to local junior high school and high school to talk about our project to promote the study of engineering. But at the same time, we also participate in the science fair that the state of Texas is organizing. Our engineer will be mentoring students, number one, to help them with the project, but number two, to help us identify talent so that we can recruit them further into the field of STEM. One of the participation that we did was the competition of the, what they call Future City, where students will be building a city on a computer simulation. And in recent year, we promote the theme of smart city where city will be connected the individual houses and together into the internet. And we want to bring awareness of cybersecurity into that competition. So we deploy engineer to supervise the people, the students who participate in the competition. We bring awareness not in the technical detail level, but in what we've call the compound level so student will be able to know what required to provide cybersecurity for the smart city that they are building. And at the same time, we were able to identify talent, especially talent in the minority and in the woman, so that we can recruit them more actively. And we also raise money for scholarship. We believe that scholarship is the best way to entice student to continue education at the college level. So with scholarship, it's very easy to recruit them to the field and then push them to go further into the cybersecurity area. >> Yeah, I mean, I see a lot of the parents like, oh, my kid's going to go join the soccer team, we get private lessons, and maybe they'll get a scholarship someday. Well, they only do half scholarships. Anyway. I mean, if they spent that time doing these other things, it's just, again, this is a new life skill, like the Girl Scouts. And this is where I want to get into this whole silo breaking down, because Amy, you brought this up, and Bill, you were talking about it, as well. You got multiple stakeholders here with this event. You've got public, you've got private, and you've got educators. It's the intersection of all of them. It's, again, if those silos break down, the confluence of those three stakeholders have to work together. So let's talk about that. Educators. You guys are educating young minds. You're interfacing with private institutions and now the public. What about educators? What can they do to make cyber better? 'Cause there's no real manual. I mean, it's not like this court is a body of work of how to educate cybersecurity. Maybe it's more recent. There's cutting edge best practices. But still, it's an evolving playbook. What's your thoughts for educators? Bill, we'll start with you. >> Well, I'm going to turn to Amy and let her go first. >> Let you go. >> That's fine. >> I would say as educators, it's really important for us to stay on top of how the field is evolving, right? So what we want to do is we want to promote these tight connections between educators and our faculty and applied research in industry and with industry partnerships. And I think that's how we're going to make sure that we're educating students in the best way. And you're talking about that inner, that confluence of the three different areas. And I think you have to keep those communication lines open to make sure that the information on where the field is going and what we need to concentrate on is flowing down into our educational process. And that works in both ways, that we can talk as educators and we can be telling industry what we're working on and what types of skills our students have and working with them to get the opportunities for our students to work in industry and develop those skills along the way, as well. And I think it's just all part of this really looking at what's going to be happening and how do we get people talking to each other? And the same thing with looking at public policy and bringing that into our education and into these real hands-on experiences. And that's how you really cement this type of knowledge with students, not by talking to them and not by showing them, but letting them do it. It's this learn by doing and building the resiliency that it takes when you learn by doing. And sometimes you learn by failing, but you just pick up and you keep going. And these are important skills that you develop along the way. >> You mentioned sharing, too. That's the key. Collaborating and sharing knowledge. It's an open world and everyone's collaborating. Bill, private-public partnerships. I mean, there's a real, private companies, you mentioned Palo Alto Networks and others. There's a real intersection there. They're motivated. They could, there's scholarship opportunities. Trung points to that. What is the public-private educator view there? How do companies get involved and what's the benefit for them? >> Well, that's what a lot of the universities are doing is to bring in as part of either their cyber centers or institutes people who are really focused on developing and furthering those public-private partnerships. That's really what my role is in all these things is to take us to a different level in those areas, not to take away from the academic side, but to add additional opportunities for both sides. Remember, in a public-private partnership, all entities have to have some gain in the process. Now, what I think is really interesting is the timing on particularly this subject, space and cybersecurity. This has been an absolute banner year for space. The standup of Space Force, the launch of commercial partnership, you know, commercial platforms delivering astronauts to the space station, recovering them, and bringing them back. The ability of a commercial satellite platform to be launched. Commercial platforms that not only launch but return back to where they're launched from. These are things that are stirring the hearts of the American citizens, the kids, again, they're getting interested. They're seeing this and getting enthused. So we have to seize upon that and we have to find a way to connect that. Public-private partnerships is the answer for that. It's not one segment that can handle it all. It's all of them combined together. If you look at space, space is going to be about commercial. It's going to be about civil. Moving from one side of the Earth to the other via space. And it's about government. And what's really cool for us, all those things are in our backyard. That's where that public-private comes together. The government's involved. The private sector's involved. The educators are involved. And we're all looking at the same things and trying to figure out, like this forum, what works best to go to the future. >> You know, if people are bored and they want to look for an exciting challenge, you couldn't have laid it out any clearer. It's the most exciting discipline. It's everything. I mean, we just talk about space. GPS is, everything we do is involved, has to do with satellites. (laughs) >> I have to tell you a story on that right? We have a very unique GPS story right in our backyard. So our sheriff is the son of the father of GPS for the Air Force. So you can't get better than that when it comes to being connected to all those platforms. So we really want to say, you know, this is so exciting for all of us because it gives everybody a job for a long time. >> You know, the kids that think TikTok's exciting, wait till they see what's going on here with you guys, this program. Trung, final word on this from the public side. You're at the Air Force. You're doing research. Are you guys opening it up? Are you integrating into the private and educational sectors? How do you see that formula playing out? And what's the best practice for students and preparing them? >> I think it's the same in every university in the engineering program will require our students to do the final project before graduation. And in this kind of project, we send them out to work in the private industry, the private company that sponsor them. They get the benefit of having an intern working for them and they get the benefit of reviewing the students as the prospective employee in the future. So it's good for the student to gain practical experience working in this program. Sometimes we call that a co-op program. Sometimes we call that a capstone program. And the company will accept the student on a trial basis, giving them some assignment and then pay them a little bit of money. So it's good for the student to earn some extra money, to have some experience that they can put on their resume when they apply for the final, for the job. So the collaboration between university and private sector is really important. When I join a faculty normally there already exist that connection. It came from normally, again, from the dean of engineering, who would wine and dine with companies, build up relationship, and sign up agreement. But it's us professor who have to do the (indistinct) approach to do a good performance so that we can build up credibility to continue the relationship with those company and the student that we selected to send to those company. We have to make sure that they will represent the university well, they will do a good job, and they will make a good impression. >> Thank you very much for a great insight, Trung, Bill, Amy. Amazing topic. I'd like to end this session with each of you to make a statement on the importance of cybersecurity to space. We'll go Trung, Bill, and Amy. Trung, the importance of cybersecurity to space, brief statement. >> The importance of cybersecurity, we know that it's affecting every component that we are using and we are connecting to, and those component, normally we use them for personal purpose, but when we enter the workforce, sometimes we connect them to the important system that the government or the company are investing to be put into space. So it's really important to practice cybersecurity, and a lot of time, it's very easy to know the concept. We have to be careful. But in reality, we tend to forget to to practice it the way we forget how to drive a car safely. And with driving a car, we have a program called defensive driving that requires us to go through training every two or three years so that we can get discount. Every organization we are providing the annual cybersecurity practice not to tell people about the technology, but to remind them about the danger of not practicing cybersecurity and it's a requirement for every one of us. >> Bill, the importance of cybersecurity to space. >> It's not just about young people. It's about all of us. As we grow and we change, as I referenced it, we're changing from an analog world to a digital world. Those of us who have been in the business and have hair that looks like mine, we need to be just as cognizant about cybersecurity practice as the young people. We need to understand how it affects our lives, and particularly in space, because we're going to be talking about people, moving people to space, moving payloads, data transfer, all of those things. And so there's a whole workforce that needs to be retrained or upskilled in cyber that's out there. So the opportunity is ever expansive for all of us. >> Amy, the importance of cybersecurity in space. >> I mean the emphasis of cybersecurity is space just simply can't be over emphasized. There are so many aspects that are going to have to be considered as systems get ever more complex. And as we pointed out, we're putting people's lives at stake here. This is incredibly, incredibly complicated and incredibly impactful, and actually really exciting, the opportunities that are here for students and the workforce of the future to really make an enormous impact on the world around us. And I hope we're able to get that message out to students and to children today, that these are really interesting fields that you need to consider. >> Thank you very much. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, and the importance of cybersecurity and space is the future of the world's all going to happen in and around space with technology, people, and society. Thank you to Cal Poly, and thank you for watching the Cybersecurity and Space Symposium 2020. (bright music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2019. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Informatica World 2019. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, John Furrier. We have two guests for this segment. We have Charlie Emer. He is the senior director data management and governance strategy at Honeywell. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> And Randy Mickey, senior vice president global professional services at Informatica. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Charlie, I want to start with you. Honeywell is a household name, but tell us a little bit about the business now and about your role at Honeywell. >> Think about it this way. When I joined Honeywell, even before I knew Honeywell, all I thought was thermostats. That's what people would think about Honeywell. >> That's what I thought. >> But Honeywell's much bigger than that. Look, if you go back to the Industrial Revolution, back in, I think, '20s, we talked about new things. Honeywell was involved from the beginning making things. But we think this year and moving forward in this age, Honeywell is looking at it as the new Industrial Revolution. What is that? Because Honeywell makes things. We make aircraft engines, we make aircraft parts. We make everything, household goods, sensors, all types of sensors. We make things. So when we say the new Industrial Revolution is about the Internet of Things, who best to participate because we make those things. So what we are doing now is what we call IIOT, Industrial Internet of Things. Now, that is what Honeywell is about, and that's the direction we are heading, connecting those things that we make and making them more advancing, sort of making life easier for people, including people's quality of life by making those things that we make more usable for them and durable. >> Now, you're a broad platform customer of Informatica. I'd love to hear a little bit from both of you about the relationship and how it's evolved over the years. >> Look, we look at Informatica as supporting our fundamentals, our data fundamentals. For us to be successful in what we do, we need to have good quality data, well governed, well managed, and secure. Not only that, and also accessible. And we using Informatica almost end to end. We are using Informatica for our data movement ETL platform. We're using Informatica for our data quality. We're using Informatica for our master data management. And we have Informatica beginning now to explore and to use Informatica big data management capabilities. And more to that, we also utilize Informatica professional services to help us realize those values from the platforms that we are deploying. IIoT, Industrial IoT has really been a hot trend. Industrial implies factories building big things, planes, wind farms, we've heard that before. But what's interesting is these are pre-existing physical things, these plants and all this manufacturing. When you add digital connectivity to it and power, it's going to change what they were used to be doing to new things. So how do you see Industrial IoT changing or creating a builder culture of new things? Because this connect first, got to have power and connectivity. 5G's coming around, Wi-Fi 6 is around the corner. This is going to light up all these devices that might have had battery power or older databases. What's the modernization of these industrial environments going to look like in your view? First of all, let me give you an example of the value that is coming with this connectivity. Think of it, if you are an aircraft engineer. Back in the day, a plane landed in Las Vegas. You went and inspected it, physically, and checked in your manual when to replace a part. But now Honeywell is telling you, we're connecting directly to the mechanic who is going to inspect the plane, and there will be sort of in their palms they can see and say wait a minute. This part, one more flight and I should replace this part. Now, we are advising you now, doing some predictive analytics, and telling you when this part could even fail. We're telling you when to replace it. So we're saying okay, the plane is going to fly from here to California. Prepare the mechanics in California when it lands with the part so they can replace it. That's already safety 101. So guaranteeing safety, sort of improving the equity or the viability of the products that we produce. When we're moving away from continue to build things because people still need those things built, safety products, but we're just making them more. We've heard supply chain's a real low-hanging fruit on this, managing the efficiency so there's no waste. Having someone ready at the plane is efficient. That's kind of low-hanging fruit. Any ideas on some of the creativity of new applications that's going to come from the data? Because now you start getting historical data from the connections, that's where I think the thing can get interesting here. Maybe new jobs, new types of planes, new passenger types. >> We are not only using the data to improve on the products and help us improve customer needs, design new products, create new products, but we also monitorizing that data, allowing our partners to also get some insights from that data to develop their own products. So creating sort of an environment where there is a partnership between those who use our products. And guess what, most of the people who use our products, our products actually input into their products. So we are a lot more business-to-business company than a B2C. So I see a lot of value in us being able to share that intelligence, that insight, in our data at a level of scientific discovery for our partners. >> Randy, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here (laughs). >> Thanks. >> So you lead Informatica's professional services. I'm interested to hear your work with Honeywell, and then how it translates to the other companies that you engage with. Honeywell is such a unique company, 130 years of innovation, inventor of so many important things that we use in our everyday lives. That's not your average company, but talk a little bit about their journey and how it translates to other clients. >> Sure, well, you could tell, listening to Charlie, how strategic data is, as well as our relationship. And it's not just about evolution from their perspective, but also you mentioned the historicals and taking advantage of where you've been and where you need to go. So Charlie's made it very clear that we need to be more than just a partner with products. We need to be a partner with outcomes for their business. So hence, a professional services relationship with Honeywell and Charlie and the organization started off more straightforward. You mentioned ETL, and we started off 2000, I believe, so 19 years ago. So it's been a journey already, and a lot more to go. But over the years you can kind of tell, using data in different ways within the organization, delivering business outcomes has been at the forefront, and we're viewed strategically, not just with the products, but professional services as well, to make sure that we can continue to be there, both in an advisory capacity, but also in driving the right outcomes. And something that Charlie even said this morning was that we were kind of in the fabric. We have a couple of team members that are just like Honeywell team members. We're in the fabric of the organization. I think that's really critically important for us to really derive the outcomes that Charlie and the business need. >> And data is so critical to their business. You have to be, not only from professional services, but as a platform. Yes. This is kind of where the value comes from. Now, I can't help but just conjure up images of space because I watch my kids that watch, space is now hot. People love space. You see SpaceX landing their rocket boosters to the finest precision. You got Blue Origin out there with Amazon. And they are Honeywell sensors either. Honeywell's in every manned NASA mission. You have a renaissance of activity going on in a modern way. This is exciting, this is critical. Without data, you can't do it. >> Absolutely, I mean, also sometimes we take a break. I'm a fundamentalist. I tell everybody that excitement is great, but let's take a break. Let's make sure the fundamentals are in place. And we actually know what is it, what are those critical data that we need to be tracking and managing? Because you don't just have to manage a whole world of data. There's so much of it, and believe me, there's not all value in everything. You have to be critical about it and strategic about it. What are the critical data that we need to manage, govern, and actually, because it's expensive to manage the critical data. So we look at a value tree as well, and say, okay, if we, as Honeywell, want to be able to be also an efficient business enabler, we have to be efficient inside. So there's looking out, and there's also looking inside to make sure that we are in the right place, we are understanding our data, our people understand data. Talking about our relationship with IPS, Informatica Professional Services, one of the things that we're looking at is getting the right people, the engineers, the people to actually realize that okay, we have the platform, we've heard of Clare, We heard of all those stuff. But where are the people to actually go and do the real stuff, like actually programming, writing the code, connecting things and making it work? It's not easy because the technology's going faster than the capabilities in terms of people, skills. So the partnership we're building with Informatica professional services, and we're beginning to nurture, inside that, we want to be in a position were Honeywell doesn't have to worry so much about the churn in terms of getting people and retraining and retraining and retraining. We want to have a reliable partner who is also moving with the certain development and the progress around the products that we bought so we can have that success. So the partnership with IPS is for the-- >> The skill gaps we've been talking about, I know she's going to ask next, but I'll just jump in because I know there's two threads here. One is there's a new generation coming into the workforce, okay, and they're all data-full. They've been experiencing the digital lifestyle, the engineering programs. To data, it's all changing. What are some of the new expertise that really stand out when evaluating candidates, both from the Informatica side and also Honeywell? What's the ideal candidate look like, because there's no real four-year degree anymore? Well, Berkeley just had their first class of data analytics. That's new two-generation. But what are some of those skills? There's no degree out there. You can't really get a degree in data yet. >> Do you want to talk about that? >> Sure, I can just kick off with what we're looking at and how we're evolving. First of all, the new graduates are extremely innovative and exciting to bring on. We've been in business for 26 years, so we have a lot of folks that have done some great work. Our retention is through the roof, so it's fun to meld the folks that have been doing things for over 10, 15 years, to see what the folks have new ideas about how to leverage data. The thing I can underscore is it's business and technology, and I think the new grads get that really, really well in terms of data. To them, data's not something that's stored somewhere in the cloud or in a box. It's something that's practically applied for business outcomes, and I think they get that right out of school, and I think they're getting that message loud and clear. Lot of hybrid programs. We do hire direct from college, but we also hire experienced hires. And we look for people that have had degrees that are balanced. So the traditional just CS-only degrees, still very relevant, but we're seeing a lot of people do hybrids because they know they want to understand supply chain along with CS and data. And there are programs around just data, how organizations can really capitalize on that. >> And also we're hearing, too, that having domain expertise is actually just as important as having the coding skills because you got to know what an outcome looks like before you collect the data. You got to know what checkmate is if you're going to play chess. That's the old expression, right? >> I think people with the domain, both the hybrid experience or expertise, are more valuable to the company because maybe from the product perspective, from building products, you could be just a scientist, code the code. But when you come to Honeywell, for example, we want you to be able to understand, think about materials. Want you to be able to understand what are the products, what are the materials that we use. What are the inputs that we have to put into these products? Now a simple thing like a data scientist deciding what the right correct value of what an attribute should be, that's not something that because you know code you can determine. You have to understand the domain, the domain you're dealing with. You have to understand the context. So that comes, the question of context management, understanding the context and bringing it together. That is a big challenge, and I can tell you that's a big gap there. >> Big gap indeed, and understand the business and the data too. >> Yes. >> Charles, Randy, thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. It's been a great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. You are watching theCUBE. (funky techno music)

>> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're in San Francisco at the Professional Business Women of California Conference, the 28th year, I think Hillary must be in the neighborhood because everyone is streaming up to the keynote rooms. It's getting towards the end of the day. But we're excited to have Adam Smiley on. He's the author of The Quarter-Life Breakthrough. Welcome Adam. >> Great to be here, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So you gave a talk a little bit earlier on, I assume the theme of kind of your general thing. Would you just, Quarter-Life Breakthrough, what is Quarter-Life Breakthrough? >> So this is a book about how to empower the next generation. How young people can find meaning in their careers and their lives. So the subtitle of the book is Invent Your Own Path, Find Meaningful Work, and Build a Life That Matters. So everyone talks about millennials, you hear them in the news, "Oh they're the lazy generation," >> Right, right. >> "The entitled generation." The Me, Me, Me generation. I actually think that couldn't be further from the truth. So the truth is that actually 50% of millennials would take a pay cut to find work that matches their values. 90% want to use their skills for good. So my book is a guide for people to find purpose in their careers and really help them find meaning at the workplace and help companies empower that generation at work. >> So from being the older guy, so then is it really incumbent, you know, because before people didn't work for good, they worked for paycheck, right. They went, they punched in, they got paid, they went home. So is it really incumbent then on the employers now to find purposeful work? And how much of it has to be purposeful? I mean, unfortunately, there's always some of that, that grimy stuff that you just have to do. So what's the balance? >> Yeah and it's not to say that millennials don't want a paycheck, everyone wants money. I obviously want to make more money than less money. But it's also that this generation is really looking for meaning in the workplace. And one of the main things, if you look at all the studies, whether it's the Deloitte Millennial Study or the IBM Study, this is a generation that wants to move the needle forward on social issues at work. Not just after work or on the weekends, but at the workplace. And I think it's incumbent upon companies to really think about how they're providing those opportunities for purpose. Both in the mission of the company, what someone's doing every day, and opportunities outside of work, whether it's service projects, paid sabbaticals for people to do purpose-driven projects, really thinking about how someone is inspired to do mission during work every day. >> Right, it's interesting, Bev Crair at the keynote talked about, the question I think was, do you have to separate, kind of your personal views from your professional views and your social life? And she made a very powerful statement, she's like, "I'm comfortable enough with my employer that I can say what I feel and if there's ever a question they can ask me about it. But I don't gait what I say based on my employer as long as I'm being honest and truthful." So you know it's an interesting twist on an old theme. Where before you kind of had your separate worlds. You know, you had your work life and your home life, but now between email and text and social media, there is no kind of they're there for work and it's really invaded into the personal. So is that why the personal has to kind of invade back into the work? >> And when it comes to millennials, one word that always comes up is authenticity. People do not want to separate who they are at home from who they are at work. They want to be their whole person. Now obviously there's a line you don't cross. I'm not going to tell someone exactly what I think of them or tell the boss to go screw themselves or insult somebody or put on social media something that's secret that we're doing at the company. But I think that people want to feel that they get to show up who they are, have their beliefs echoed at the workplace, be able to be their full self, their full values, their mission, their goals, have that reflected in what they do, and have people at the company actually acknowledge that. You're not just an employee, I actually know what's going on in your life. I know what your dreams are, I know what your family's going through. I care about where you're headed, not just today or while you work here, but when you leave the company. Because that's the other thing, is that we're accepting that most of the people entering the workforce now or starting a new job, they're going to be there on average two to three years, maybe four, five, or six years. They're not going to be there ten, fifteen, twenty years like they used to be. So how do you actually empower someone to make an impact while they're there. And help them find the next lily pad, as they call it. The next opportunity. Because they're going to have a lot of those lily pads as they go throughout their career. >> It's interesting. We interviewed a gal named Marcia Conrad at an IBM event many years ago. She just made a really funny observation, she's like, "You know, people come in and you interview them and they're these really cool people and that's why you hire them, because they've got all these personality traits and habits and hobbies and things that they do, and energy." And then they come into the company, and then the old-school, you drop the employee, you know manual on top of them, basically saying stop being you. Stop being the person that we just hired. So that's completely flipped up on its head. >> Right, one of the things I talked about in the session today was this idea of stay interviews versus exit interviews. Normally when we do performance managements, kind of like, okay, you're leaving, what did you think? Why are you doing that when someone leaves? Do it to be like, what would make you stay? What do you want to accomplish while you're here? And you're not being graded against what everyone else is being graded on, what do you want to be graded on? What are your goals? What are your metrics for success? Performance achievement versus just performance measurement. I think is very important for this generation, because otherwise it's like, well why am I being judged on the standards that were written in 1986? This is what I'm trying to do here. >> It's interesting, even Jeff Immelt at GE, they've thrown out the annual review because it's a silly thing. You kind of collect your data two weeks before and the other fifty weeks everybody is just working. I have another hypothesis I want to run by you though. On this kind of purpose-driven. Today so many more things are as a service, transportation as a service, you know there seems to be less emphasis on things and more emphasis on experiences. It also feels like it's easier to see your impact whether it's writing a line of code, or doing something in social media. And you know there was an interesting campaign, Casey Neistat did, participated a couple weeks ago, right. They raised $2 million and basically got Turkish Airlines to fly in a couple hundred thousand metric tons of food to Somalia. And my question is, is it just because you can do those things so much easier and see an impact? Is that why, kind of this, increased purposefulness, I'm struggling on the word. >> I think the tools are certainly more available for people to take action. I think the connection is there. People are seeing what's going on in the world in a way that they've never been exposed to before with social media, with communication technology. It's up front and center. I think also that as technology takes over our lives, you see this with kind of statistics around depression and anxiety, people are starved for that in-person connection. They're starved for that meaning, that actual conversation. We're always doing this, but really a lot of data shows that people experience true joy, true fulfillment, true connection, true experience is what you're talking about, when they're in a room with someone. So people want that. So it's kind of a return back to that purpose-driven life, that purpose-driven tribe, village experience because the rest of the time we're on our phones. And yeah, it's cool, but something's missing. So people are starting to go back to work and be like, "I want that inspiration" that other generations may have gotten from church or from outside of work, or from their community, or from their village, or from the elders, or from a youth group or something. They're like, "I want that in the workplace. I want that everyday." >> Well so this is more top-down right? I mean I just think again, kind of the classic, back in the day, you were kind of compelled to give x percentage of your pay to United Way or whatever. And that was like this big aggregation mechanism that would roll up the money and distribute it to God-knows-where. Completely different model than, and you can see, because of social media and ubiquitous cell phones all over the place, you can actually see who that kid is, that's getting your thing on the other side. >> And it's empowering someone to say, "Okay this is what's important to me. These are the causes that I'd like to support. This is where I want my money to go and here's why." >> So what do you think's the biggest misunderstanding of millennials from old people like me or even older hopefully? >> Well one thing that I do think that millennials don't get right is the importance of patience. I think a lot of times people say, you know, "oh millennials, they want things to happen too quickly." I think that that's true. I think that my generation, I'm going to be the first to admit and say that we need to do a better job of being patient, being persistent. You can't expect things to happen overnight. You can't expect to start a job and in two months get promoted or to feel like you're with the Board of Directors. Things take time. At the same time, it's incumbent upon older generations to listen to these young people, to make them feel like they have a voice, to make them feel like they're heard and that their ideas matter, even if they don't have the final say, to make them feel like they actually matter. Because I think sometimes people assume that they don't know anything. They don't know everything, but they have some really brilliant ideas and if you listen to those ideas they might actually be really good for the company both in terms of profit and purpose. So that's one thing I would say. >> Okay, just, so first time with this show, just get your impressions of the show. >> Oh it's great. This is a great show. You all are doing a great job, a great interview. >> No not our show. The PBWC, I mean of course we're doing a good job, we have you on. I mean the PBWC. >> It's a great, you know for me, it's real exciting to be at the end of an event where I'm one of the only male speakers. Because usually, I've been doing the speaking circuit thing now for a year or two. And I go to these events, I go to panels, I go to conferences, keynotes, and it's mostly male speakers, which is a huge problem. There's far far far fewer women and people of color speaking at these events than men. And one of the things I'm really trying to change is that but also pay equity around speaking, because I talked to some of my female colleagues about what they were paid for a specific event, and they'll say, "Well they covered my transportation, they covered my lift and a salad, or my hotel maybe." I'm like, well I got paid $5000. That's messed up. We did the same amount of work. We did the same panel or doing the same keynote, similar experience levels. That's messed up. And so I'm trying to change that by doing this thing called the Women Speaker Initiative. Which is a mentorship program to empower more women and people of color to be speakers and then to make sure that they're paid fairly when compared to men. >> So how do people get involved with that? >> They should just got to my website, smileyposwolsky.com and check out Women Speaker Initiative. >> Alright, well Adam, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. Great great topic and I'm sure, look forward to catching up again later. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Alright. He's Adam, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're at the Professional Business Women of California conference, twenty eighth year. Thanks for watching.

>> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at the Professional BusinessWomen of California Conference. It's the 28th year, Jackie Speier started it a long time ago and now it's grown to 6,000 people. It's a pretty amazing conference, it crosses all indrustries and actually a lot more than California as well. And we're excited to actually have somebody to come talk to us about the conference itself. It's Deepti Srivastava, she's a Project Manager of Google Cloud from Google. Great to see you again, last we saw you, I looked it up was 2014 >> I know. >> at Topcoder Open. >> Indeed. >> And you were doing great work then, you were on a panel with a bunch of high school girls. I remember they'd bust in a couple of busloads of high school girls and you and a couple other mainly young professional women talkin' to 'em about the life of an engineer. So you're still doin' good things. >> I hope so. (laughs) >> Absolutely. >> I hope so, yeah, it's a passion of mine and I'm really happy to bring it to something like PBWC where I'm on the board. And we do a bunch of work across industries and across all levels. PBWC's mission is to work for gender equity and equal pay for women across all industries and in all professional settings. >> Right. >> That includes young professionals, as well as the pipeline of professionals coming in. >> That's terrific. So we could talk about your day job all day long. (Deepti laughs) Google Cloud's kickin' tail, you guys had your big conference a couple weeks back-- >> Here in fact. (chuckles) >> Here in Moscone West, right? >> Yeah. >> But in terms of what you're doing here with PBWC, give us a little bit of the history. So we know it was started by Jackie Speier, I think you said 1988. >> Yeah. >> That's just amazing. >> I know. >> Obviously it's much more than California. >> Yeah. >> But what is the top-level mission and how has the conference evolved over the last several years? >> So Professional BusinessWomen of California, as you said was started by Congresswoman Jackie Speier and Judy Bloom, who's a co-founder. And we still exist and we've been doing this for so long and we really care about our mission, which is to work for basically gender equity and equal pay as I said, for all professional settings for women. And in this particular case, this conference we are talking about inclusion. And we chose this theme because we really think it's pertinent to what's going on right now in the world and in our country. And we, PBWC, believe that the things that unite us, the potentials and aspirations that unite us are greater than our differences and things like that. So we want to make a statement and really address the inclusion work that we do, and the inclusion work that's required for all of us to really move forward as a country and as a people. And if you look at our lineup of speakers today, we really do walk the talk that we're talking about. We have amazing speakers today with Rosario Dawson to Taraji P. Henson and all the way to Secretary Clinton who's closing out our day today, we are so excited to have her. And there's nobody better to represent breaking the glass ceiling than she has so we're very excited to hear. >> And what a get, I think I heard that it's her first public speaking engagement post the election. >> Yeah, I know. And it's very exciting because again, I think we're all about coming together and rallying and being a force for good. The conferences, that's our aim ultimately as an organization. And having her here to give her speech, first public appearance after the election last year, very exciting I think. >> Right, right. >> And we're very excited to hear from her. I'm already inspired by the thought that she's going to be here. >> And really a big part of the theme was kind of the strategy work is done, everybody knows it's good. Now it's really time for the rubber to hit the road. It's about execution and about taking steps and measuring. And a lot of the real concrete, nuts-and-bolts activities that need to happen to really move this thing down the road. >> You mean like gender equity and-- >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think it's been a topic for awhile and I think, exactly, we need to have the rubber hit the road, we have to get together, we have to have actionable plans and that's what a bunch of our seminars today talk about. How to address those things in your, we really want to empower women and actually people of all backgrounds and ages and all sorts of people to take charge of their own lives. And especially, we are a professional women conference so that's kind of where we focus our messaging. But really we want women to take control of their own lives and we want to give them the tools, the networking opportunities, the inspirations to meet their aspirations in those fields. And so we want them to take charge and move forward by themselves, take away from here and go back to your job, to your work, to your home, to really bring your messaging forward. Take inspiration from here and bring it back to your life. >> Right, and I think Bev Crair, in the keynotes said, "Fill your well today." >> Yeah. >> 'Cause as soon as you leave here it's back to the grind and you're going to need that energy. So while you're here surrounded by this energy and your peers, take it all in and load up. >> Absolutely. And I also want to say that we started out as a conference, an annual conference, and that's definitely our marquee thing that we do every year. But we actually have a lot more offerings that people can continue to engage over the year. So we have webinars and seminars that people can attend, there's community events that happen here. And you can go to the PBWC website and see what all offerings we have. But we want people to engage and we want to be able to provide them with the means to engage throughout the year, not just here but take this, everything you get today and then take it along the rest of the year and recharge yourself. >> It's kind of this whole 365 concept which we talk about on theCUBE a lot too, 'cause we go to so many shows. And there's a huge investment of time and energy and money on those two or three days, but how do you extend that out beyond the show? How do you build the excitement leading into the show so it's not just a one time kind of a shot, then everything goes back to normal? >> Yeah exactly, I think that's exactly the point, that this is not just a one day, you go there, you get inspired and then what next, right? >> Right. >> There's something you can go back to with our various offerings and continue your learning journey if that's what you want, or networking journey if that's what you want to do. Wherever you are in your career, we actually have a Young Women's Professional Summit that I have the honor of chairing, that we have every year and it's meant to help young professional women navigate their way from being in college and high school and those entering a professional life so as I said, we want to cater to all levels and all ages and all sorts of challenges that people face as they're going through their professional careers. >> So that's a separate event? >> It is, it is an annual conference. >> And when is that? Give a plug. Or do you have a date? (Deepti chuckles) >> Yeah, we don't have a date yet but it's going to be in the summer. >> In the summer, okay great. Well I think when we met last, I thought that was such an important piece of that Topcoder Open because it wasn't the Sheryl Sandbergs or the Hillary Clintons or these super mega top-of-the-pyramid people. It was a bunch of young professionals, one of the gals was still in school, hadn't finished graduating, to make it so much real for those high schoolers. They didn't have to look so far to say, "I could see myself, I kind of look like that person, "I kind of see things touch." >> And I think that's very important, Jeff. Exactly. It's very important and that's what we try to do here at PBWC as well. We want to go from catering to the Millennials and how we interact with them and all the way up to C-suite, we had a Senior Leadership Summit yesterday leading up to the conference today where we have a bunch of C-suites and CDOs, Chief Diversity Officers, come together and talk about trending topics and how to solve them. So we really are trying to move the needle forward on many fronts here, but our aim is all of that to culminate into moving women and people of all backgrounds forward. >> Right. And then there's this whole entrepreneurial bit which you can't see behind the camera, but there's booths all over for Intel and LinkedIn and Microsoft and the names that you would expect, Google of course, but there's also all the little boutiques, clothing stores and jewelry stores and crafty things. There's even of course women-focused snacks with the Luna Bars and I forget the other one. (chuckles) So it's kind of a cool entrepreneurial spirit kind of on top of everything else. >> Absolutely. And you know Jackie Speier, Congresswoman, started this conference to help women who were in the SMB, sort of SME market, basically women who ran small businesses. And we want to continue to do that as well but now of course the world is changing and we have a much more of a corporate presence and we want to help there too. But yeah, we pay homage to that by having women who are women entrepreneurs running women-focused businesses, and we have them here in the expo area if you can get a shot of that later. >> Right. >> The energy is palpable, the excitement is there and it's so great to be here and harness that, and take it back, I mean the first time I was here many years ago when I was not even on the board, I was just like, oh my gosh, there's so many women here who are like me or who are, they're people I could look up to all the way up to the C-suite who are making their presence felt here. And also all the people around me and like-minded, like me. So it's a really inspiring event. And I've been here for many years but I'm still inspired by it. So I'm so excited that we do this and continue to do this. >> So, little harder to question. So, and you've been doing this for awhile, what surprises you on the negative that still you know, you're still fighting that battle that you wouldn't have expected to still be doing? And then conversely what has surprised you on the positive, in terms of what's moved maybe further than you might've thought or faster than you might've thought? >> That's a good question. I think you already nailed it, right. The fact that we are still here talking about this is interesting to me, and as I got more involved in this kind of work I realized that people have been doing this for a long time. Congresswoman herself has been doing this for so long and a fearless advocate for women's rights and equal pay and diversity and inclusion. And the fact that we are still here, it is indicative of the fact that we need to have a groundswell movement in order to change policy. We can talk about it all we want but unless there's actionable things you can take away and really have that grassroots-level work to push the envelope forward, it's not going to happen. I think the positive is, as I've seen this conference over the years, it's grown. And it's gotten a lot more young people involved and it's not just the senior leadership that is trying to pull people forward, it's the people starting out early in their careers or mid-level in their careers that are looking at taking charge of their own destiny and pushing their agenda forward in this sense. They want, they're asking for equal pay. They're really engaged and aware. And conferences like PBWC actually help with that, getting those minds together and making things move forward. So I think from a positive side I'm really excited to see so many more people engaged in this fight. And the more people we have, the more we can actually make real progress and real inroads. >> And if you look back, as someone who's never been here and then they see this interview and they say, "This looks awesome, I'm going to sign up," what do you think the biggest surprise when they come for the first-timer? >> I'll tell you what I was surprised by, is seeing so many women together across industries, across ages, across backgrounds. Everybody together, really wanting to move forward. They're really wanting to engage, to connect with each other and to actually make a difference. People are here to make a difference, right? >> Right, right. >> And that's, to say that 6,000 people come together and really all of them have that same sort of mentality of like yes, I'm empowered to make a difference, is electrifying. >> Deepti, I love the energy. >> (laughs) Thank you. >> I love the energy, absolutely. >> It's all these people. >> It is. >> Trust me, I'm sleep deprived (Jeff laughs) with my very young son. So yeah, this is all the energy that I need to feed off of. >> No, it's good. And there is something special here. >> Mm-hmm. >> And you can feel it. 'Cause we go to a lot of shows, you go to a lot of shows. And again, it's not an exclusive tech show which is kind of nice 'cause we cross a lot of industries. But there's definitely, there's an energy, there's a vibe that comes from the little entrepreneurial outlets, it just comes from the, that room was packed. The keynote room was... >> I know. >> Was not fire marshal friendly. (Deepti laughs) Hopefully the fire marshal was not close by-- >> Yes, we had some discussion on that too. But to your point, this is one of the conferences that I've seen where we really, perhaps the only conference I've seen where we really cut across all industries. Because there's tech-focused, there's business-focused, there's all sorts of focused conferences trying to do either their professional work on technology or whatnot, or they're trying to solve the problem on the gender and diversity and inclusion piece in their own silos. And we try to cut across so that we can actually have a coming together of all of these various industries and their leaders, thought leaders, sharing ideas and sharing best practices so that we can actually all move forward together, I think that's again our Senior Leadership Summit which happened last night and the VIP reception which happened last night is all about getting those thought leaders together and getting them to share their best practices and ideas so that again, they can take it back to their companies and really move forward with DNI initiatives. >> It's action right, it's all about the action. >> Absolutely. >> So I promise next time that we talk, we'll talk about Google Cloud. >> Oh, sure. >> 'Cause that's hoppin'. (Deepti laughs) But it was great to see you and congratulations on all your work with the board and with your event >> Thank you. >> in the summer. People should go to the website, keep an eye out. >> Absolutely. >> It'll be comin' out. >> Yeah. >> So thank you. >> Thank you so much, it was great to see you too, Jeff. >> Absolutely. Alright she's Deepti, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at the Professional BusinessWomen of California Conference. The 28th year, pretty amazing, 6,000 people. Here at Moscone West, thanks for watchin'. (upbeat techno music)

(clicking) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. It looks like they're letting the general session out. We're here at the Professional Business Women of California Conference; 6,000 women, about 5% men really talking about, it's amazing, the 28th year. I've never been to this show about how women can get more inclusive and diversity and taking, executing on steps to actually make it happen as somebody said in the key note. It's not a strategy problem, it's an execution problem. So, we've got a great story here and we're really excited to have CUBE alumni, Andrea Ward. She's now the CMO of Magento Commerce. Welcome back, Andrea. >> Thank you so much, it's great to be here and great to be at this conference. The buzz is amazing and I was here two years ago and it's grown so much, just in the two years. >> How many people were there, they say it's 6,000, now. >> I mean, it looks like it's about doubled. I don't know what the numbers were two years ago but the participation is amazing and it's such a great opportunity for local businesses to bring employees from their companies, have them have a chance just to talk and learn from such powerful women. So, it's been a really great conference. >> And, it's also a cross of so many kind of verticals if you will, because you know we go to a lot of tech conferences. This is more kind of a cross industry with banking and insurance and, you know, United Airlines we talked to earlier. And so, it's a much more diverse kind of set. >> Absolutely, I mean the women on the panels this morning spanned legal professions, government, entertainment, business, really diverse issue and it's fantastic that women are coming together to support each other to help make a difference. >> So last we saw you, I think we were on the street on Howard Street a couple years back which was pretty exciting as well, but now your new company, Magento Commerce. So, for people who aren't familiar with the company, give them kind of the four-one-one. >> Yeah great, well Magento Commerce is a leading commerce technology platform for mid-size businesses. We have recently separated from Ebay about 15 months ago and are now a privately held company and we power about a third of the world's commerce, believe it or not. >> That is amazing. Yeah. >> A third of the world's eCommerce. >> That's right. So, it's a fantastic company. We're growing and a part of that growth is absolutely growing a more diverse workforce and we've been putting into place some initiatives since last year. >> Yeah, part of the key note conversations were, obviously, that you need to put goals down on paper and you need to measure them and I think it was Bev Crair from Intel talked about, you know, doing it across all the pay grades. It's not just in engineering or just on the board or just the executive ranks, but really all the way across and it sounds like you guys are executing that to really help you just grow the company generically. >> Well, we're in a very lucky position in that we're experiencing growth and so that gives us room to really go out and look for amazing talent across the board. And so, we put a focus on diversity and inclusion and by doing that, we've increased the percentage of women in all roles across the company by 50% and that's since last June. So I think, you know, really just what you said earlier about execution and putting some numbers and goals against that can really make a difference. >> Right, and if you hadn't had those, that execution detail you probably couldn't have grown that fast because let's face it, it's hard to get good talent. If you're not including a broader base of talent, you're not going to be able to achieve your goals. >> Well, that's right and I think that some of that is, I don't know if you want to call it unconscious bias or unintentional, we're used to hiring people that look like us, have experience like us. And so, by encouraging that diversity, it really has made us expand the pool of applicants, make sure that we're not going for the easiest choice or the simplest choice but really considering a wide range of candidates to fill those positions. >> You know, I don't the birds of a feather conversation comes up enough, it's just easy to go with what you're familiar with. So whether it's unconscious or not, it's just easy, people are busy, you want to check the box and get off to your next task. So, you have to take a step back and consciously do the extra work, take the extra effort. >> Well, in the industry we support, the industries we support are going through digital transformation, I mean, commerce is key and central to digital transformation. And, transformation and change means that you have to consider other perspectives. You need to learn from new ideas and I think, you know, diversity plays a big part in that as well. So, I think bringing that into our own company because we're supporting that broader industry has been very important. >> Right. So, I want to take that opportunity to pivot on what you just said about in terms of the changing role of commerce. You know, I often think of like banks because in a bank, you know, your relationship was with your local branch; maybe you knew the banker, maybe you knew a couple of the tellers whatever, but you had a personal connection. Now, most people's engagement with the brands they interact with is electronic and via their phone and it's interesting that you say that. And, it's the commerce around those engagements, that the commerce is becoming the central point of gravity if you will and the relationship is spawning all from that. >> Well, I mean, personal connections are still very important and commerce I feel is like the moment where a conversation really turns into a relationship. So, it's important that those digital experiences, the customer experiences really make up the right connection with the brand. And so, that seamless interaction between what happens at the branch, for example in the financial example, on what you can do at home, that needs to be very cohesive. It needs to be trustworthy, it needs to be authentic and that means businesses need to create individual experiences that really reflect their brand. And, our company specifically has really helped businesses create those experiences, seamless experiences and translated them from digital to in-store or in the branch. I think the biggest change now is how that's starting to impact business-to-business relationships, I think. >> In what way? In the consumer world, we're used to that now right? We're all doing that in our everyday experiences. Now, we're starting to see that also come into a business-to-business relationship. So, just like the seamless conveniences that you have online in your day to day life, people want to see that in the workplace, too. And so, we're seeing the biggest change now in those types of business models. >> They're rocking in the background, if you can't hear them. >> Yeah! We are here. >> Yeah! You know, it's funny, I just saw, something come across the feed talking about that annoying business-to-business add in Instagram, but then aren't you glad you saw it? >> Yeah. >> So, it's interesting how, you know, the B to C norms, you know, continue to help define what's going on in the B to B space and we've seen it in Enterprise Software Applications and Cloud and the flexibility and speed of innovation. It just continues to really drive the business-to-business relationship. >> Yeah, and I think just like in the business-to-consumer world, it has started with content in business-to-business. But, now people want to move from just learning and knowledge to actually transacting which means that companies need to enable specialized price list, account management, things like that and that's starting to surface in the commerce world as well. So, we're really excited about that and we're going to be sharing some of that at our conference next week; Imagine, in Las Vegas. >> Okay yeah, it's amazing how fast. It was not that long ago, we were just trying to get the 360 view. Right? We were just trying to pull from all the various desperate systems to know who that customer was for a given system. Now, it's a segmentation to want, a very different challenge. >> Right, I mean it's that change from thinking about trying to attract your customer to come to your business to really bringing the business to the customer. I mean, I think that's what some of this digital technology is allowing us to do. We're going to them rather than trying to draw them in to come to us, if that makes sense. This idea of commerce coming to you, right? >> And, it's got to come to you with something that's relevant, that's topical, that's timely. >> That's easy to execute, that can mirror a real experience. I mean, you hear a lot of things about, things like virtual reality, artificial intelligence. I mean, all of that's just gimmicks unless you can actually think about how you make that real for your brand. So, for example, we have a customer in Mexico City who is selling eyewear, right. And so, everybody when they buy glasses, they want to try them on, so we need to help them give their customers that virtual experience. If they can't come into the store and try them on, we want to be able to let them try them on at home. So, that's a natural extension of the brand and a way to use virtual reality and I think businesses are still trying to figure that out. But, if those customers didn't have that experience, it'd be less likely that they actually would buy or, you know, make a commerce transaction. >> But, if I'm hearing you, instead of it really kind of being in a marketing effort that then it's completed with a transaction, you're kind of coming at that which you just described from the transaction first and this is really a supporting or an enabling activity. >> That's right, it all starts with the customer understanding what is going to help them make their decisions. Giving them experiences that feel seamless, giving them options. So, if they want to come in-store but see what's maybe available at another store for pick-up or if they want to come in-store and order online or if they want to order from home and then go into the store and pick it up. It's really about giving the customer the right options for them. >> Right. >> Another great story we had is, I mean, how many of us travel, I know you travel a lot. >> Right. >> I travel a ton. >> Especially, to Vegas. (chuckling) >> Especially, to Vegas! And, you know, my kids are always expecting something when I come home but who has time? So, you know, one of our partners worked with the Frankfurt Airport and created an application where on the way to the airport, you can go shopping at all of their stores in the airport and have your package waiting for you at the gate on the way to the plane. So now, you know, they've figured out what their customers want to do first by creating this great shopping experience at the airport. Now, they know people are running through the airport, how can we extend that shopping experience for them while they're sitting in the taxi (chuckling) on the way, have it waiting for them at the gate? And so, for me personally, working for a company that's helping customers to do those kinds of things has really been fun. >> Right, because they always have the liquor for ya ready to go at the gate but never the kids', you know, t-shirts or a little tchotchke or, I can remember running through Heathrow time and time again trying to find something quickly. >> Yeah, and now with two kids and a husband that all want something different, (laughing) you know, it makes it much easier for me. >> Alright, Andrea, well you've been doing this marketing thing for a long time. I'll give you the last word both on the conference and kind of, you know, as a marketer to see where we're going with A.I. and really the ability to actually segment to one. You know, how exciting is that for you? >> Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic. I think, you know, marketers want to create relationships with their brand and all of these tools are giving us better access, better chance to create that fantastic experience. So, it's a great time to be a marketer. (chuckling) And, it's a great time to be at this conference, too so. >> Alright. Thanks very much. >> Thanks for stopping by, Andrea Ward. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE from the Professional Business Women's Conference in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here, with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at Moscone West, at the Professional Business Women Conference, San Francisco. This is the 28th year, 6,000 women, about 5% men here. Talking about doing better in the work force, inclusion, diversity, but this has been going on forever. Jackie Speier: Started it years ago, wow, almost three decades ago. And we're really excited to be joined by someone who's got some special tools to help people, you know, really execute on this promise. It's Lisa Skeete Tatum, she is the co-founder and CEO of Landit. Lisa, welcome. >> Great to be here, thank you. Absolutely, so first of all, impressions of the conference? Have you been here before, what do you think? This is my first time. I can't believe I've missed it all this time, to be here surrounded by all of these amazing women, and the same mission, which is how do we help people succeed, and women, particularly, in the workplace-- >> Jeff: Right. >> It's fabulous. Well, let's jump into it because you actually, as one of the keynote speakers said, it's really not a strategy problem anymore. It's an execution problem. Everyone kind of knows what they want to do, but how do you actually do it? And your company, Landit has a real specific solution to help individuals as well as companies, so give us kind of the background on Landit, and what you do, how long you been around. Sure, well, first I want to thank LinkedIn for inviting us here to collaborate with them on this panel of personal brand, and particularly, Jacquelin Jones and Ty Heath, they're fabulous, fabulous collaborators. But our goal at Landit is to increase the success and engagement of women in the workplace while also enabling companies to both attract and then retain their diverse talent. And we realize, as you said, that it's not for lack of motivation, or skill, or traffic, it is where do I start? And so our goal, and our quest for democratizing career success, is to create a personalized playbook, one size fits one, for every woman, to more successfully navigate. And we enable companies in a turnkey solution to invest in their women, to essentially path them better. >> Okay, so let's, I love that democratizing business success. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay so from the individual side, what are some of the specific tools that you found that people were just lacking, or they just didn't know, or they just needed that extra assist. >> Absolutely. Well, first, it starts from being at an inflection point, and that could be their inner workplace, or trying to figure out how to more successfully navigate. Maybe they're stuck, which is where I was. They don't know how to get out of it, or they're looking for what's next. And the questions that come up besides, "Where do I start," is, "What is it that I want to do that fits with all of me," maybe, "How do you develop your personal brand," which our session is about. Because most people don't even know the power of personal brand. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And the fact that it accounts for 25% of your success. "How do I connect with a coach?" It's one of the best-kept secrets that most of us don't know. And then, "How do I manage my personal board of advisors?" Right, so a lot of people think about a mentor, but it's much more than than. It's about a mentor. It's about a sponsor. It's about continued education. So our goal is to knit all of that together, and essentially path you, because it's overwhelming. You think about, you get to one of these inflection points. You're like, "Gosh, I don't know where to turn, I don't know who to connect with, I don't know if there's quality, and I want it to be relevant to me." Because there's a ton of information, but we're all busy. I'm the mother of two teenage boys, and so I want things that are relevant to me that I can action on. And companies, when they look at the massive problem of wanting to retain their talent. They've tried lots of things. We give them one neat knit together turnkey solution, where they know when they're winning. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And they can measure. >> 'Cause there's so much things you touched on, there. >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> So I want to jump into a couple. What's the difference between a coach and a mentor, and an advisor? >> Absolutely. So when you think of a coach, which again, most of us don't have because it's reserved for someone who's in the C Suite, and we believe you have to bring it earlier on. But this is someone, an outside expert, who can help give you the framework, help hold your accountable, et cetera. So that is an expert hired person in your corner. When you think about your board. >> Let me, so like what type of coach is it, generally? I mean, obviously if you're a CEI or a CEO of a large company, they can hire the best of the best. >> That's exactly right. >> When you're not, and you're middle of your career, what type of coaches are kind of the highest ROI? >> And that's exactly what we address. Because, in this notion of democratizing access, why should I be CEO before I get access to that high caliber. >> Jeff: Right, right, right. >> So we went, and we said, "Well what do they get, and how do we bring that to anyone on the platform?" So we're talking executive coach. Someone who can move you forward, power you forward, who's not in the risk of your day-to-day life, but has the perspective and the pattern recognition to move you forward. So and executive coach. The exact same thing that a CEO wants, whether at a big company or small, that's what we want the women on Landit to have. >> And are these people, so you've got a resource bank of these type of individuals-- >> Lisa: That's exactly right. >> Jeff: Through the application. >> All certified, very successful practices that believe like I do that you've got to democratize that access. You have to get someone when they're at one of those inflection points in order to move them forward. To stop seeing, you know, we have the largest number of professional, educated women, not fully engaged in the workforce, as we said here today, workforce, and they want to be. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So that's one of the solutions. Your question about the board. If you think about a mentor, this is someone who you have coffee with, you talk to, you bounce ideas. If you think about a sponsor, this is someone who talks about you. Someone who opens doors, someone who can help you see possibilities. Or you think about a connector. Someone who knows everyone. My co-founder is CEO of Care.com, Sheila Marcelo, she knows the world. So when there's someone who I don't know, and I want to be connected to, I pick up the phone, and I call Sheila. So you got to think about codifying your network, so you have the right ask of the right person. That's how you build your board, if you will, of which a coach is a component of that. >> Right, okay, then let's, this is so much, we could go for like, two hours. Hopefully you don't have much going on for the rest of the day. >> Hey, where you go? >> Personal brand. >> Yeah! >> There's so much talk about personal brand. Obviously, with Twitter and for famous people now, can, for good or bad, can directly touch with their constituents. Before, a mid-tier professional or early stage professional, what is building their brand, and how important is it for people that just don't understand. >> Absolutely. Well, first of all, mid-career is too late to start thinking about your brand. I have teenage boys, I tell them now, "You cultivate that brand." Whether you like it or not, you have a brand. The question is, are you in control of it? So some people say a brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. I say the personal brand is what do people say about you that they want you in the room? So you have to cultivate that early on, but most people don't know the formula. It accounts for 25% of your success. >> 25%? >> 25%, and what we realize a lot of time, people don't even know the mistakes that they're making, but it's holding them back. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So it's not just about working hard and keeping your head down, It is what is the authentic message that you signal to the world? >> Right. So what is the drop-dead dumb thing that most people that's the easiest thing to fix for your personal brand? >> They don't keep track of their accomplishments on a weekly basis. So they suffer from what we call, LIFO, last in and first out. So when it comes time to negotiate, to do your LinkedIn profile, to advocate for yourself, you don't have any facts, right. So facts and information is power. Something so simple, end of the week, what did I do to further myself, my brand? >> And it's just keeping it, just putting it your own-- >> Lisa: Keeping a log. >> In your binder, your log, whatever. >> And that's one of the features we have-- >> To put on your LinkedIn profile every week. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay. >> And it's one of the features we have at Landit, which is every Friday, you should be checking in. What did I do for myself, what did I do for my brand, what did I learn, and then, when it comes times to do that profile, you can look at your repository and say, "Oh, yes, I did add value," or "Yes, I'm not spending a disproportionate amount of my time, on housekeeping projects," which, unfortunately, women often do. I'm focused on things in the business world. >> That's like the classic busy versus productive thing, right? It's just sometimes it's just so much easier to do busy work. >> That's exactly right. >> Many of us are guilty of that. Okay, so now, let's flip the bit here, and from the employer's point of view, what are some of the things that they need to do better, to help the women in their companies be more successful-- >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> And by extension, the company be more successful. >> Absolutely, so I think one of the biggest challenges that our clients face is that they don't have a turnkey, scalable solution to touch more lives. So often, when you first join a company, you get lots of love, lots of good snacks, and then in the middle, what we call the forgotten middle, not so much, because it's hard at scale, to offer the tools that we do. And if you make it through to the end, you'll get some things. But, that's where you have that whole leaky pipe issues. So what they come to us for is, whether it's your brand, your board, continuous learning, coaching, we knit that together in a way that's seamless. And we do it in a way that enables them to touch more lives. We have several multinational companies that have women all over the globe, and they can have a common experience. But because we're technology, they can measure. They can see the engagement, they can see the pathing. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So, for them, it's a win, win. But it's all about, again, the power of one size fits one. And you can only do that through technology, with the appropriate human-- >> But you start with, like, the big program, and then it gets customized, or codified-- >> Lisa: Well, it's driven by the woman. >> By the individual. >> It's driven by the woman. >> Jeff: Okay. >> Exactly, so the elements of success, the playbook, if you will, are common, but how it gets used, what it recommends, how it paths you is all about the individual. And that's the power of being able to, again, knit it together. Powered by technology, but not forgetting that there are humans involved. You've got to have those touch points. >> It's interesting because people just get so busy at work. Everybody gets busy. You get busy yourself, your boss is busy, everybody's busy these days. >> That's right. >> So is it suggesting like, "Hey, you should go to a professional conference," or "Hey, you should be doing some of this." What are some of the little steps that make a big difference that people just are too busy to kind of pay attention to? >> Sure. So the best investment you can make is in yourself. And if you think about our sponsors and the company whether it's they're the head of HR or Development, it's hard for them to manage the careers of thousands of people, right? And so we give them a way to allow the onus to be on the individual, right, for them to invest and manage their own career. >> Jeff: Right. >> We want to do it, we just don't have the tools. Going to a conference, like this is a fabulous conference, but how do you knit things together in between conferences? Because our goal is, I don't know anyone, myself included, that's only had one inflection point. So how do we give you what you need when you need it. >> Jeff: When you need it. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay, so how long has Landit been around? >> So we have been around, out of stealth mode for about a year. >> Jeff: Okay >> Now, and we have amazing good clients. We have women from around the globe. 20% of our users are international. It's all ages, it's all functions, it's all careers, and it makes my mom proud (laughs). >> Oh, absolutely. And she'll love you when she sees your CUBE interview. >> Exactly. >> And so as you look forward, if we were to sit down together a year from now, what are some of your top priorities about for you personally, professionally, but as well for Landit. That's kind of the next couple of big hurdles that you guys want to take. >> Absolutely, so we're on the quest for world domination-- >> Jeff: That's good. >> But that aside, our goal really is to unlock the talent of women around the globe. So we want to touch as many lives, whether it's women coming directly on the platform, or as many companies as possible. And keep refining our product so that we're meeting our promise, which is we're going to give you, again, what you need, when you need it, in a one size fits one way. >> Well, Lisa, I can't wait to watch the story continue to unfold. >> Lisa: Thank you! >> You've got great energy, it sounds like a terrific product, and, can men login as well? >> They absolutely can. And I should say, we don't do all tools for women, we do all tools for success-- >> Okay, good. >> We just happen to focus on women. >> Okay good, because I know I'm too busy to keep track of that stuff. All right, she's Lisa Skeete Tatum, from Landit. I'm Jeff Frick, and thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you so much, it was a pleasure. >> Absolutely. You're watching theCUBE from the Professional Business Women of California Conference, 28th annual, thanks for watching. (techno music)

(click) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at Moscone West at the Professional BusinessWomen of California Conference. 6,000 women, this thing's been going on for 28 years. It's a pretty amazing show. We see a lot of big women in tech conferences, but this is certainly one of the biggest and it's all about diversity, not just women. And of course, if there's a women in tech event, who are we going to see? Sandy Carter. >> Woo hoo! (laughs) >> Sandy, so great to see you. CEO of Silicon Blitz and been involved with PBWC for a while. >> I had suggested to Congresswoman Jackie when I saw her about three or four years ago about doing something special for the senior women. I proposed this leadership summit, and you know what they always say, if you suggest something, be prepared to execute it. She said, "Would you help us get this going?" Three years ago, I started the Senior Leaders Forum here, and yesterday we had that forum. We had 75 amazing women from all the great companies of California Chevron, Clorox, IBM, Microsoft Intel, Amazon, you name it all the great companies here in the Bay. Oh, Salesforce, Airbnb, all goes on. >> That was like a little conference in the conference? >> It was for C-Suite only and it was about 75 women. We do three TED Talks. We pick out talks that are hot but that are very actionable for companies. So yesterday, Jeff, we talked about millennials how to have inclusion of millennials in your workforce. 50% of the workforce by 2020 will be millennials. >> Is that a harder challenge than just straight-up diversity? >> This is really important. (laughs) It may be. But I had Allison Erwiener and Erby Foster from Clorox come and speak and they did a TED talk. Then we actually do little workshops to action. What would a millennial program look like? Our second topic was around innovation. How do you link diversity to innovation? There are so many studies, Carnegie Mellon Silicon Valley, Harvard, DeLoy that shows there is a linkage but how do you get the linkage? For all these amazing diverse- >> The linkage between better business outcomes, correct? >> That's right. >> Better outcomes. >> That's right. In fact, the latest study from Harvard came out at the end of 2016 that showed not only with diverse teams do you get more innovation but more profitable innovation which is everybody's bailiwick today. We had Jeremiah Owyang of Crowd Companies who's a innovation expert come and really do that session for us. Then last but not least we talked about diversity and inclusion, primarily inclusion in the next century. What is that going to look like? We saw some facts about what's going on in changes in population, changes in diversity and then how we as companies should manage programs in order to tap into those changes. It was an awesome, awesome session. Then of course we had Pat Waters from Linkedin. She is chief talent officer there. She came and closed it out with her definition of inclusion. It was powerful. >> You won an award. >> I won an award, yes. >> Congratulations, what did you win? >> Game Changer for PBWC, and I'm really proud of it because last year we had Serena Williams speak and she was the first recipient so I guess you'd say I'm in great company because it's now Serena and I with this great award. >> Absolutely. Before we went on air we were talking about some of this next-gen diversity and thinking about getting that into programming languages and you brought up, there was some conversation around bots and obviously chat bots are all the rage and AI and ML is driving a lot of this but ultimately someone's got to write the software to teach these things how to behave so you're going to run into the same types of issues if you don't have a diversity of the thinking of the way the rules and those bots work as you have in any other situation where you have singular thinking. >> I think Jeff, you're right on. In fact, I think it's really going to accelerate the desire for diverse teams. If you think about artificial intelligence machine learning, and bots you have to train the computer. The computer's not naturally smart. There is a team that actually uses a corpus of knowledge and trains the bot. If the data that goes in my dad always said, "Garbage in, garbage out." If the data that goes in is biased then the output is biased and we're seeing that now. For instance, I was just looking at some VR headsets and people are now looking at virtual reality. You know you get a little nauseous. They've been tweaking it with artificial intelligence so that you don't get as nauseous but it was done by all men. As a result, it greatly improved the nauseousness of men but not women. That's just one example. You want your product to go for 100% of the world. >> That's weird, you'd think that would be pretty biological and not so much gender-specific. >> You would, but there are apparently differences. We talked to a doctor yesterday. There's apparently differences in motion-sickness between the two and if you only have one set of data you don't have the other. >> But then there's this other kind of interesting danger with machine learning and I think we see it a lot in what's going on in the news and causing a lot of diversion within the country in that the algorithms are going to keep feeding you more of that which you already have demonstrated an affinity to. It's almost like you have to purposefully break the things or specifically tell it, either through active action or programming that no, please send me stuff that I'm not necessarily seeing all the time. Please give me stuff that's going to give me a diversity of points of view and opinion and sources because it feels like with your basic recommendation engine it's going to keep sending you more of the same and rat hole you down one little track. >> That is true, and that's why today we have a panel and we're going to be talking about especially for AI and bots you must have diverse teams. From the session this morning I really loved one of the speakers, Kim Rivera, from HP and she said, "It's hard, but we just said 'Look, we've got to have 50% women on the board. We've got to do this.'" I think the same thing's going to be true for AI or bots Jeff, if you don't have a diverse team, you will not get the right answer from a bot. Bots are so powerful, and I was just with a group of nine year old girls and we had a coding camp and I asked them, "What do you want to do?" All of them wanted to do bots. >> Really. >> They had all played with- >> What kind of bots- >> The Zootopia- >> Did they want to do? >> They all had played with a Zootopia bot from Disney. I don't know, did you see Zootopia? >> I did not see it. I heard it was a great movie. >> It's a great movie, animated movie of the year. >> Bunnies, bunnies, bunnies as cops, right? >> That's right. In fact, the bunny is what they made into a chat bot. 10 million kids use that chat bot to get a little badge. Now all the kids are into bots. They used bots to remind them to brush their teeth to do their homework. In fact, there was a chat bot written by a 14 year old boy in Canada that's a homework reminder. It's actually really quite good. >> Also I'm thinking of is the Microsoft little kid that didn't, I guess timing is everything. >> Timing is everything, that's right. >> That one didn't work so well. >> But I guess what I would just leave with people is that when you're looking at this great, great new technology for AI and bots in particular, you must have a diverse team. You must look at your data. Your data's got to be unbiased. Like you said, if you just keep doing the same old thing you're going to get the same old answer. You've got to do something different. >> You're doing all kinds of stuff. You're working with Girls in Tech on the board there. I think you're doing some stuff with the Athena Alliance who's driving to get more women on >> Boards. >> Boards. You're really putting your toes in all kinds of puddles to really help move this thing because it also came up in the keynote. It's not a strategy problem. It's an execution problem. >> That's right, and because I'm so passionate about tech I love tech and I see this linkage today that is been never really been there that strong before but now it's almost like if you don't have diversity your AI and bots are going to fail. Forester just said that AI and bots is the future so companies have to pay attention to this now. I really think it's the moment of time. >> We're running out of time. I'm going to give you the last word. What are one or two concrete things that you've seen in your experience that leaders can do, like came up today in the keynote tomorrow to really help move the ball down the field? >> I think one is to make sure you have a diverse team and make sure that it represents diversity of thought and that could be age, it could be gender it could be sexual orientation, race you got to look at that diversity of team, that's one. Secondly, just by having a diverse team doesn't mean you're going to get great output. You've got to be inclusive. You've got to give these folks great projects. Like millennials, give them a passion project. Let them go and do something that can really make a difference. Then third, I think you have to test and make sure what you're delivering out there represents that cognitive diversity of thought so make sure that you're not just putting stuff out there just to get it out there but really double-checking it. I think those are three actionable things that you can do tomorrow. >> That's great, Sandy. Thank you very much. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> Thanks for stopping by. We just checked Sandy's calendar and there we know where to take theCUBE because she's all over the place. She's Sandy Carter, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from the Professional BusinessWomen of California conference in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (synth music)

>> Hey, welcome everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, We are in downtown San Francisco Moscone West at the Professional Businesswomen of California's conference. It's the 28th year they've been doing this conference, over 6,000 women, pretty wide range, about 5%, of guys made the trip, and we are excited, it's about diversity and inclusion, and we wanted to come check it out and bring you some of the thought leaders. So, we're really excited to have our first guest, he's Greg Jones, he's a Chief Diversity Officer for United Airlines. Welcome, Greg. >> Good to be here, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so you've been doing this diversity thing for a while, took a look at your LinkedIn, you know, you've been in healthcare, excuse me, insurance, and financial services, now with United. Are we making progress on this front? >> We are making some progress, but given the time that I think we have been doing this in the country, I would say it's not enough yet. >> Jeff: Right. And so, there is still a ways to go, it's a journey. We take two steps forward, sometimes a step back, sometimes a half a step back. But we're moving forward. >> Right, and certainly a lot of positive momentum here, and we cover the Grace Hopper show, and, you know, a lot of the women in tech stuff, but again, you're not only looking at sex or race, but things like veterans with disabilities, I saw >> Absolutely >> you're doing some efforts, >> Absolutely >> so really a broad breaststroke. >> Yeah, it is, and when you think about it, it makes sense, because, especially in the corporate space, we're talking about, how do you actually get the most out of all the people that you have working for you at every level, and if people are afraid to fully commit themselves to work, your productivity is just not what it could be or what it should be. >> Jeff: Right. >> You know, I have a theory, I'm sorry, Jeff, >> Jeff: No. >> that corporate America is probably operating at about 60% capacity, because people can't fully pull the trigger on their skills and talents. So, what inclusion is all about is getting the most out of all of the folks that you have by creating an environment in which they're comfortable in. >> We hear that time and time again, and there's a lot of studies about, you know, diversity of opinion leads to better outcomes, >> Greg: That's true >> This is not the right thing to do, I mean it is the right thing to do, but it's also a great business decision. >> Greg: Right. Do business leaders get that? Do they see that by having a different set of opinions, and all of us bring our own biases, to decision making and processes, that the outcomes are actually better? >> I think it's starting to happen more and more, I think, if you think about the history of this work, diversity and inclusion, since the sixties or whatever, it's migrated from affirmative action and all that that meant and the emotion that that provoked, to, wait a minute, the country is changing, the world has gotten smaller, this is starting to really make sense from a business perspective. So we migrated from almost completely the right thing to do, to wow, wait a minute, this is a business play. >> Right. So what are the things you see that are really concrete for people that, you know, or companies, they want to get involved they want to do a better job, what are some of the low hanging fruit that you suggest since you've been on this journey? >> Greg: Well, I think about, organizations like this, and conferences like this, are very important, and I would say it's a very important tool that companies can use to actually begin to develop the mindset that they need to start to shift gears. Also, organizations should begin to think about their systems. It turns out that there are biases in certain systems in terms of performance ratings, how people are promoted, how people are rewarded, and you know there is a look of leadership, unfortunately, that is based on history. >> Jeff: Right. >> So I think companies can start to really examine their processes, their views of their leadership model, their ways that they promote people, because it turns out that great talent and leadership comes in all kinds of packages. >> Right, and it's tough to fight, I mean, one of the keynote speakers this morning talked about, they've actually published their unbiased, or their unconscious bias class online for anyone to take. I can't remember if it was Schwab or Intel, which is pretty interesting, because we all have bias. >> Greg: We do. >> It's not about not having bias, it's about being aware of your bias and really trying to overcompensate for when you know it's doing things that you know you're not necessarily keeping track of. >> And it turns out that it's one of these things, and I talk about this a lot, it turns out that if you step out into this world, in places in which you're not comfortable, leading people and engaging with people, that you may initially not be comfortable with, what happens over time is you wind up developing a skill set, you know, whether it's leading women, whether it's leading people of color, or whether it's engaging with people with disabilities, once you do it and you find out it doesn't kill you, >> Jeff: Right, right. >> It turns out that by defintion, it makes you a better leader. So we have these biases, >> Right >> We do, were human. >> Jeff: Right. >> But it turns out, when you explore beyond your comfort zone, to use a cliche, you grow as a person, you grow as a leader. >> That's such a great point right, because birds of a feather is always the easiest path. >> It's easy! >> So easy. >> Yes. >> And it's just familiar, whether that familiar, that's cause that's the person that did it for you yesterday, or they're the same race, background, color, they look the same, but it's so easy to go birds of a father, but to your point I think that's a great point that doesn't come up enough, it's when you challenge yourself with something new, it let's you get back on a little steep learning curve, but that's when you grow and you know you feel so much better when you do get a little growth in your personal development. >> Absolutely, and it turns out that that in and of itself is a skill. Once you do it a few times and you find out that you're capable of doing it, you're looking for that next thing that is sort of outside the lines that you used to be comfortable with, and you grow. >> Jeff: That's great. So, I wonder, you got to have an analogy for Jazz. I know you're a Jazz fan, doin' a little homework before you came on. The great musical that just won all the Academy Awards talked about kind of the Jazz groove, and there's a little bit of conflict and harmony but at the end of the day, they make beautiful music together. Do you see some of that kind of analogy in what you're trying to accomplish? >> I actually do. I think that once you begin to master your instrument, I talk about job descriptions and systems as sort of the sheet music. You know, the basic tune that you have. But once you really master your instrument you can take it in all kinds of places, I mean, "Mary Had a Little Lamb" played by Louis Armstrong, is very different than the basic music, right? I would say that as we think about ourselves as leaders, there are the basic things we have, our technical education, our personalities, but once you really master that and you lose your fear of stepping out there, you can improvise all day long with all kinds of people in all kinds of ways and all kinds of systems. I believe that to be true. >> Well, and you're doing it every day. >> That's right! >> Alright Greg, well I was going to say do you have the last word, but I don't know that we could do much better than the Jazz analogy so I think we'll leave it right there. >> There ya go, let's stop right there. >> Alright. Well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day, and I look forward to continued success in your journey. >> Thank you so much, Jeff, very nice to meet you. >> Pleasure >> Absolutely. >> Alright, he's Greg Jones, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE, we'll be back after this short break, thanks for watchin'. (tech music)