live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco red hat summit 2018 s cubes exclusive coverage we're out in the open in the middle of floor here as open source has always done out in the open it's the cube doing our part extracting the cylinders I'm John for the co-host of the cube with John Troy you might coast analyst this week he's the co-founder of a firm advisory firm our guest case is Paul Comey a president and products on technology of Red Hat architecting the future of red hat and products and technologies all open source great to see you again major see you so thank you coming on so great keynote today you guys have done a great job here I thought the messaging was great but the excitement was strong we just came back off of a week in Copenhagen coop con where kubernetes clearly sees the de facto standard around kubernetes the core kubernetes with a lot of room to differentiate around you got sto service meshes a lot of exciting things for application developers and then under the hood and the new life being brought into OpenStack so there's clear visibility now into what's going on swim lanes whatever we call it people kind of see it so congratulations thank you magical moment Lucky Strike all on the cards give us some color you guys been working on this for a while go back and where did it all start and when did things start clicking together for you guys well I know I sometimes sound like a broken record here but I mean the key to our success is the commercialization of Linux I mean you know Linux we started Linux as a commodity play you know it was cheaper cheaper almost as good et cetera but it became such a powerful platform all the innovation you just talked about is built around Linux it's all tied into Linux so once we lay down the Linux base and the customer and the customer data centers which is such the logical extension to go to these new technologies because it really you really need to be a Linux vendor in order to be able to do a kubernetes to release to be able to support our containers release any of these things it's all just intertwining the Linux and your model is working honestly the open source is no secret that that's open open it's over proprietary and closed but you also have a community model that's feeding into the price of technologies Jim Weider zzyx you know went into detail on hey you don't you know you have a crystal ball and technology because you're smart guys but ultimately the users in the communities give you direct feedback of what's relevant and cool at the right time this is really where kubernetes Lucky Strike for you guys was really there you saw it so the commitment you jumped in can you explain that dynamic of how the products get fed in from the communities I'll give you actually a better example of OpenShift itself so we originally started OpenShift back in 2011 and we started it as a marketing project we started it as a as a cloud-based platform to get developers out there building to our platform and a lot of our customer base saw it and came to us and said I want this as a product this is really really powerful so we made a product out of it first one kubernetes wasn't around containers weren't around we'd built it on virtual machines we had we had what we called gears to lock in and and then containers started to morph in and read by release three we transformed it to containers then we brought in kubernetes because we had worked with the Google folks earlier on that so we really listened to our customers we started at something we thought was going to be an expense and it turns out to be you know one of our hottest our hottest platform right now based on what our customers in the community told us timings everything - and the good timing is as the clouds took the scale started also becoming relevant you see Amazon success now you got as your IBM and everyone's kind of seeing that opportunity how are you guys looking at the container piece because you know we can look at the history and docker you know trying to monetize too early we've been you know we've documented that it went well in the cube many times core OS a recent acquisition big one for you guys and strategic but also a great team containers are super important talk about the role of containers specifically not so much as a business model but as a lynchpin right between how orchestration is moving and how these service messages are coming out I mean you think just real quickly what containers are first containers are just Linux carved up in a different way you still have a kernel still have user space the difference is you take just the user space you want with the application and you run it that way so all the same life cycles security issues you have to fix etc they have to do on a standard Linux have to do it in containers the first thing containers been around forever they were in units if we all if we all remember but the killer app for containers was because now when I can bring just enough two of the OS with the application I can run that to the cloud that's how we get the app out to the cloud that's how we get it onto the private cloud out to any of the public clouds how we reverse the clouds so even though they've been around for a while it's the killer app for containers so you mentioned hybrid cloud hybrid cloud multi-cloud are there are the terms it's this week we hear them a lot that been up on stage one way of putting it is is thinking about that different places of deploying but in one you are really saying that it doesn't matter where you deploy there's there's layers of an especially openshift can take you to different clouds it location doesn't matter anymore can you drill down on that a little bit absolutely I mean our our whole we took a bed I mean it sounds obvious now it always does right we took a bed on hybrid cloud I've been talking about it for six or seven years and what it means is customers are going to have applications that run on bare metal they're going to have running as virtual machines probably on VMware they're going to maybe run their private clouds maybe containers maybe across multiple clouds end of the day it's it's Linux underneath that what customers don't want is five different operating because every Linux is slightly different they don't want five different operating environments they want and want one so what we do with rel and with openshift is we give you that abstraction layer for your application to code once and you can move that app anywhere I mean the clouds the public clouds have brought a tremendous amount of innovation and I don't want to say this in a derogatory way but in some sense they're like a mainframe because they have their stack all the way up to there a flick their products are their services and so you start you start up you start up a service of server lists of lambda that's never leaving Amazon never so so it's great in many cases if that's ok for that app but there's a lot of cases you might want to run the app here one day and there the next day so you really need an abstraction layer to ensure that you have that portability and that's what shift and containers are so important right I hear things like de-facto standard and abstraction layers the bells go up opportunity because you now that's where complexity can be reduced down when you have good at rational layers but we've been interviewing folks here and the some themes have come up about the sea change that we're facing this cloud scale new Internet infrastructure going on globally and the two points are tcp/ip moment you know during that time that was networking even and that disrupted decnet today and others and then HTTP both are different HTV was all new capabilities the web disrupt the Direct Mail and other things analog leaving but he stupid created inter inter networking basis right Cisco and everything else here what containers what's interesting and I want to get your reaction to this is that with containers I don't have to kill the old to bring in the new I can do the new and then let the lifecycle of those workloads take a natural natural course this is a good thing for enterprise they don't have to rush in do a rip and replace they don't have to react attacked hire new people at massive scale talk about that dynamic is that seems to be what's happening it's exactly what's heavy you know we did a bunch of demos on stage this week I think nine of them live the coolest demo was the one where we showed we actually took a Windows virtual machine with a Windows SQL based virtual machine from VMware with tools we brought that over to a KVM environment which is it's a different format for the VM brought that to a KVM environment we then use tools to slice it up into two containers one being the app itself the other being at SQL and we deployed it out to openshift and we could eventually have deployed out to any public cloud that's significant for two reasons first of all you're now seeing kubernetes orchestrating VMs right beside containers so you can kind of see where that's going right so that's really that's interesting for the operators now because now they get they bring whittled down some of that complex it's really interest interesting for the developers because from a perspective they're going to be asked to bring these traditional virtual machines into containers in the old world they have to go to a VMware front-end to do that then they have to come over here to a route to a to a rev or rel front-end to do it now they can just bring their VM with tools over work on it split it up into containers and deploy it it's it's its efficiency adds at its best and shift without any effort without any effort really how about the impact of the customers because this is to me that the big money moment because that means an enterprise can actually progress and accelerate their digital transformation or whatever they got going on to a new architecture a new internet infrastructure we hear things like Network effect decentralized storage with with blockchain new capabilities that aren't measured by traditional older stacks that we've seen an e-commerce DNS and other things so a shifts happening the shifts have a cloud scale I say synchronous the pile are these cars with a scalable whole new way let's see what does that mean for customers what it means for customers is two things that are important the shift is happening you're getting tools and you're getting tools and platforms to make that shift more seamless and you know I'd love to say it's all red head engineers that are giving you this but the reason why it's moving so fast is because it's open so the innovation comes from anywhere it's way too big of a problem for any one customer to solve where we're just helping our customers consume it that's one thing but I think the other thing is important is that's important is not every application is going to be suited to go to a container based application so because it's all on that rel common layer our customers can still have one operating environment and have have compatibility as they do the shift but still keep their business going over here maybe forever these apps may never come off a bare-metal for example Paul I wanted to talk a little bit about Red Hat scope inside IT I love the the connection that between you know the container layer that is just Linux but and also the standards layer but you know now that we're up at threat you know with the with open shift and with multi cloud you know global huge scale operation there's a lot there's a lot more involved right cloud layout level ops is you now at Red Hat is involved with with process and and culture and you have a lot more than just you have a lot more that you're involved in helping IT with than just a Linux and some and connection to the back to the machine so can you talk a little bit about about what you're trying to do with the customer great it's a great point then when I started with a company 17 years ago we weren't talking to CIOs in fact the CIOs we were in that we were coming in the back door the operations people were bringing Linux in the back door and they the CIOs didn't even know it was run in there and but now as you said we're CIOs are trying to figure out how does public cloud fit into my IT environment how does a multiple public cloud fit in out of containers fit in what do I do with my older applications where there re architecting that's at the cio level now you know they're having to re architecture architect for the next generation computing so we've had to build services around that we have labs we have innovation labs where we bring our customers in and work with them and help them you know figure out and help them map out where they're going for the first time we actually I've had cut many customers tell me so is this is the with openshift it's the first time I've got my developers in my Ops people in the same room and we've facilitated that discussion because no one's right it's gotta be one one motion and so that's that's the interesting part for us we've really moved up the chain and our customer base because we're almost a consultative sale now to help them get to the next generation talk about the enabling aspect of this because I referenced tcp/ip and HTTP but now if you go forward and say okay we're gonna have this new environment it's not just about redheads by Linux it's about the operating system which you guys obviously offer for free and then have services around it and have stopped software how is Linux with the new capability of open shift and standards like kubernetes with containers how in your opinion is that an enabling an opportunity for ecosystem new startups and enterprises themselves because we see if this happens and continues to happen oh yeah it's going to be a new names gonna come out of the woodwork new startups gonna happen you see you see it every day I mean you wouldn't do a start-up today that wasn't software wise it wasn't based on Linux and and and that's why in all the innovation today because all the innovation today is based on Linux you know one of the things we and that we released last week a cube con is I don't know if you saw it or not we released a kubernetes SDK and it can track or OS it couldn't came with the core OS guys we put that out into the community it's really an SDK for ISVs and software but vendors to build into the api's of kubernetes in an open way so that once they get out into the commercial world they're ready that's how significant we all think that kubernetes is going to be i we think that's where the services are going to hang in the infrastructure but but having said that I think it also tells you that you know the impact that these open technologies are having on the future I wanna get into the chorus in a minute but I want to ask you about the white spaces so if someone who's that in charge of the troops inside Red Hat products and technologies where's the white space opportunities that people can dig in and and build out innovation around this major shift that you guys are on this wave where's the opportunity for the channel partners the integrators globe last night's developers anyone where's the key areas I mean with our platforms of open shift and OpenStack we have we have certified entry points via api's in storage networking management so we've got hybrid management but certainly we don't think we're gonna do everything in management by any stretch we have it we have a set of api's from management partners to plug in and by the way what I tell my my management R&D folks no hidden api same api's we use they use so so storage is another area new storage solutions networking certainly AI is one of the areas one of the things we showcased here was AI permeating through our entire product line I don't know if you saw the face recognition demo out there but it was it was pretty cool in and even if you want to consume that AI through one of the cloud providers we can pass you straight through from openshift to consume it that way as well on automation I want to get your thoughts on something we've talked a few days ago here on the cube was automation is great so let's give an example I'm automating a service you know if it's a coop with kubernetes and containers and as a memory leak right and every boots but automates I don't know so you got to have a new level of instrumentation down at the code level how do you see that playing out because now we got to be smarter about what's working and not working because I might not never know just reboots intermittently give me some mystery was a memory link could be something else but but that's so this is one of the places where using AI so we've been we've been our first stint with AI came out of our support group so we've been supporting Linux and open source for 25 years got a massive database of what failures were what the fixes were we started using AI in a support group to point our reps at a particular article based symptoms that they were hearing from our we realized we had about an 80% hit rate on you know on getting to our reps to the right to the right article so now we've built that into the products and so we use that AI like for example OpenShift IO which is at one of our developer platforms developers trying to link in a library we can tell them you know what there's a new there's a newer version of that library you know what that library has a security flaw in and at this line of code maybe you want to consider using another one but it's from our years and years of doing this that we're building that day database I mean oai is only so good as the data that you fed it and so have a certain level of granularity down to do you do it and then also ai it also is a reason why all our services are now on open shift because you're absolutely right if I've got a raw JBoss service running on raw Amazon I can't instrument that underneath because Amazon's got that layer closed if I have open shifts there and it's in the infrastructure is open shift even running in Amazon or sure anywhere we can now instrument that to look at some of the things we need to look at to recognize an event a week or or whatever Paul talk about their journey with kora West obviously we've been super excited by that we've been following Korres from the beginning great technical team pure open-source guys and in that container part of the evolution in time everyone's trying to force a business model and you're really hard to force a business model is something that too early or might not even be relevant to build the business around it might be a feature not a company kind of thing so you guys put a big price tag on them sizable chunk of cash how did it all play out you guys just like hey wow we're gonna we wait like these guys they're super technical meeting of the minds and then how that has fit in from a product and technology stand a little bit a little of all of that of course the benefit of being you know having the open source development in in your DNA as we knew them all right so we knew how good they were because they we work our guys work with them every day so that was something when they decided early on like us to go to kubernetes they became a big part of the of the community of kubernetes in our model from day one you can't be an open-source provider if you're not strong in the upstream community because how can you affect what your customers are asking you to do if you and effect upstream they were big in the upstream big and kubernetes and so at that point we that's what we just said they had done some interesting things that we hadn't got to they did a lot of the automation they were doing over-the-air updates of the container platforms a week which we hadn't got to yet they had a really good following in the community so we decided you know we paid a we paid a hefty price but at this stage of the game we really feel that we took an early bit in kubernetes we really feel that that's gonna be the future in containers if there's gonna be a place a place that you pay maybe a little more this is the place well Paul I think another example is ansible a year or two back right and that's been a remained a huge success and I can say you haven't messed it up right and it's it's it's been powerful accomplished well most acquisitions you know and in end in tears so it seems like RedHat seems to be good at this kind of an open source acquisition we we get to interview them for two years before we bring them in based on well how we work in the community but you know we're very where we're bringing in people I don't I hate to say the word M&A or acquisition I just hate that word because we're just joining forces here you know it just took a a big check to do it yeah and you guys have the business model kneel down this is good was good for court at the time for them to they didn't have to worry about having to figure out a go to market and monetize right an upstream presence which was very valuable and then trying to shoehorn a business all around it and which is difficult companies died doing it yeah I mean I can't think of many that have been that successful at it I mean it's a hard thing to do I mean look we've had a great advantage you know we've had rail in the market for 16 years and it built a base for us I'm not gonna try to I'm not gonna try to kid you on that and it's the it's the Linux base that everything's getting built around and so we just keep those those principles we've used for the last 16 years we stay true to weak true to them we could not do a proprietary piece of software now if our lives depended on it that's the DNA well how do you handle the growth you get hiring new people - that's a challenge we've been we were talking to folks about on your team and across RedHat around hiring people and and you got to maintain that eco so you have to maintain that DNA way how do you guys do that what's the is there like a special three three day you know hypnotic class a you know this is how we do it I have to tell you it's a bit easier on the engineering side because you know it's typically engineers that have been working in the community etc but you know our business unit side and other pieces where people have been coming out of big companies and they're used to a hierarchical environment we really take that into account in the interview process I'll be frank not everyone makes it through I mean RedHat is you know titles really don't matter a ringlet company yeah totally engineering as all should be by the way if biased opinion fit okay so great to have you on thanks for spending the time I know you're super busy a couple questions before we wrap up what are you most proud of as you look back now I mean someone again it's almost hindsight's 2020 looks obvious these calls but you know I interviewed Diane at OpenStack many years ago took a lot of heat for that kubernetes movement people weren't it wasn't obvious to a lot of people at that time the kubernetes bet you guys make good bets looking back what are you most proud of that's most significant or or you think people should know well those were that was a seminal moment in redhead history that decision what take us through some of the key milestones in your opinion the for the first one there's probably three or four the first one was gonna Ralph because you have to understand what we did we were in we were a completely retail when I joined the company with 50 million dollars in revenue losing two hundred and so we had a retail product we stopped it to go to route literally literally stop the product bet the company move second one was JBoss we were about 300 million in revenue we paid 425 million for JBoss now that was a big one the third one you might not recognize this one moving from Xen to KVM because Xen was going off down the the VC world trying to figure out how to monetize as a company somebody in Israel came up with a with a better model with KVM the rest of the industry was on Zen we said as a single player we're going this way that was a big bet that I don't even know we recognized the significance of at the time and in kubernetes as I said we pivoted on that in 2012 or so and I've got a lot of R&D money in that and paying on what made you go to kubernetes just curious was the has the Borg success how software is being done at Google was it the role of containers did you guys have that foresight at that time saying containers gonna have a critical role we don't want to screw that up we can bring this in we're looking at from a stack perspective or was it more of a future scenario it was a lot of it was its its heritage out of Borg and knowing the talent in Google and engineering and we talked to we had we had many many discussions we all we continually do with those guys so I think it was mostly a technical decision and what we said was at that point putting our weight behind it we just need to make the community successful so I mean we quickly figure with us in Google it was a it was a fairly good bad not as sure bet but a good bet and that's what made us go there it was really it was really a technology decision possible final question as we wrap up for the folks watching who couldn't make it here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 what's the big takeaway what's the present technology what's the North Star for you and your team and what are you guys putting as a priority what's the focus I think I think the takeaway from here is you know I think it's I think it's a pretty solid couple things are really solid it's going to be the future is going to be open source period end of story especially in the infrastructure and application development world third thing is hybrid cloud is the model it's the only practical way not every application is moving to one public cloud tomorrow and the third thing is for Red Hat that's the architecture that we build around every day we guide what are what products we build what M&A we do everything we do is around that model and open if I see a centerpiece of all the piece without all that coming thank you for coming on president of Protestant technology at Red Hat I'm John ferry with John Moyer stay with us for more live covers our third day of three days of live coverage here out in the open like open source we're doing our share bringing you the content you right back with more after this short break you

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE covering Red Hat Summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. {Electronic music} >> Welcome to the session wrap of the Red Hat Summit. I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Stu Miniman. Wrapping up three great days of open source talk. Where are we, Stu? Tell us the state of Red Hat, the state of open source. What have we learned? >> You mean, beyond we're in the seaport district of Boston, Massachusetts, you know, a couple blocks away from >> or the heart of open source the new open innovation lab coming from Red Hat. So, Rebecca it's been a lot of fun with you these last couple of days. >> I feel the same way. >> Did over thirty interviews: executives from Jim Whitehurst you know on down to many of the product teams many people participating greatly in open source, open innovation award winners, the women of open source award winners, open invest in lab participants. A lot of topics but okay Red Hat itself. I've worked with Red Hat in various roles in my career for quite a long time. We didn't talk a lot about Linux this week. >> Stu, Stu, Stu I've got to stop you Linux is containers, containers is Linux. So we're hearing so much about containers it's the same diff. >> Yeah, well I got the t-shirt "Linux is containers, containers are Linux" however, if I even look at Red Hat's messaging Red Hat Enterprise Linux is like the first platform what they built around and it's a little surprising that they didn't at least in the conversation we had, it was very much about some of the newer things coming into the show I said What's the progress that they've made around some of the cloud offerings, some of the management offerings, Ansible, weaving its way into a lot of the products. OpenShift really maturing and expanding the portfolio with things like the OpenShift io to be able to really help with application modernization. Middleware progressing even heard a little bit of the future where they are doing things like server lists. So Red Hat's making good progress. We love when we do these shows multiple years is they talk about it, they deliver on it, and in the way a couple guests talked about there's a little more transparency in open source and being part of all of these communities you have some visibility as to where you're going it doesn't mean that things don't slip every now and again and not every piece makes it into the product lease that they're expecting, but they've made great progress. Linux still is just a mainstay. It's a piece of lots of environments. The ecosystem reminds me of the same way I talk about OpenStack which we'll go into next week. We had a great session with Radhesh towards the end here talking about OpenStack in many ways is like that it's weaving its way into lots of infrastructure pieces some we'll dig into more this week, but let's focus on this week for now. >> Right, so you said we didn't talk a lot about Linux. I set you straight there. But what else did we, what else did you not hear? What do you remain skeptical of? As you said, Red Hat seems to be going from strength to strength. It had two point four billion in revenue this year. >> Yeah it did. For 2016, two point four billion in revenue and three billion in bookings >> Right And there was, I read a financial report that Jim Whithurst said Golda Company is five billion within five years. And you look at it and you say okay from two point four to five well, you know >> yeah actually if it was three billion in bookings and I think back to three years ago when we first started it was around two billion dollars that was almost a 50% growth rate in three years. So, if three years from now we do 50% growth rate we're going to have three to four point five. Of course the math is not linear, there's scaling of the company, there's lots of products in here, but they've got a big tam. >> Ambitious but achievable. >> Ambitious but achievable. The question we've had for a bunch of years is when I look at the cloud. Public cloud is affecting a lot of the traditional infrastructure companies. Red Hat is a software company. They're an open source company. We heard the cloud messaging. Microsoft and Google up on stage. Andy Jassy on video. That was a big question coming in. What about Amazon? How close will Red Hat do? Amazon actually has their own AMI for Linux which means I can get a package for Linux from Amazon not only that I could take that package outside of Amazon and put it in a data center so I could use the same type of Linux for AWS to work with Red Hat to take RedShift make what's deeper integration in the public cloud with AWS and if I put that on premises I'm going to have access to the AWS services so that tighter application integration for what they're laying out really the open hybrid cloud. Red Hat terminology, we'll see if other people take that up. But really it's a multi-cloud world and Red Hat has a good position to live in lots of those environments and provide and really help solutionize and give really almost that almost adult supervision that the enterprise wants for all of these open packages. So I was heartened to see the progress made. Strong ecosystem. As always, you know passionate customers, developers, and really just heartwarming stories of you know making the world a better place. What was your take on those pieces? >> Yes, absolutely. Those are really what you come away remembering. It is the story of a woman saving a man's life in a park in Singapore. It is the story of an emergency room doing a better job of serving its patients. It is scaling up technology use in the developing world. This is what you come away. And you say that is open source. >> Maybe next year that apple you get at the grocery store won't have been sitting there 18 months. >> Well maybe. But in a code climate. Boston going to be beautiful year round. No, but so I really do agree and that is I think what Red Hat did so brilliantly at this summit. Is really showcasing the ways in which this technology is having an impact at transforming industries obviously, helping businesses make more money, but also really doing a lot of good. >> Yeah, absolutely. And Rebecca I want a big shout out to the community here. This is a community show. Red Hat is a great participant of the community. We talked to Jim Whitehurst they want to help raise up the community it's not about Red Hat leadership. We don't hear number one at a show like this, we hear where they're participating and when they get involved they go deep. We heard about OpenPOWER. How excited they are that Red Hat you know getting involved and working in some of these pieces. So, we could not be here without Red Hat support. It's our fourth year doing the show. We had a blast with it. We see Red Hat at a lot of shows. They bring us great customers, their ecosystem partners and their executives. And it's been a pleasure to cover it. >> Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more and I do think, just in terms of what your talking about, the humility of the Red Hat folks is that they aren't going banging drums of we're number one in this and number one in that and you sort of think, "okay, blah, blah." No, they don't at all. They really are saying, "No we're about making our partners and our customers shine." >> Yeah, yeah. What's going to happen with the future of jobs? You know where are people going to work these days in the future? >> How will they work? >> Rebecca: What kind of processes will they work with? >> We've all said it's very much a global ecosystem here. Got to interview quite a few international guests here and hear how technology is spreading, how people are interacting, how innovation happens in a global environment. I'm sure ties back to a lot of the things that you write about. >> Absolutely. And I think, that Radhesh some of his words of wisdom was technology is the easy part what we need to be fundamentally rethinking is how we write these applications, how we develop these applications, how we design them, and how we deliver them. And, also really bearing in mind the end user. And, that is what we learned in a lot of our other sessions. Is really thinking about that. We heard from another person you know your competitor is maybe not necessarily the competitor you're thinking of it's the last app you opened or the last application that that company was using and what is drawing them toward that application or that technology or that infrastructure and not yours? [Stu]- Right. >> And so it's really thinking much more broadly about technology and who you're competing with and how you're working. >> Yeah, that was it was a bank. I loved that. They're like we're not competing against other banks it's like where's that other attention span that you have. >> Rebecca: Right, where are your eyeballs. >> One of my favorite lines is you know what you, Michelangelo, and Einstein have in common? You only have 24 hours in the day so you need to make sure you take advantage of that. That's the kind of thing that >> That's depressing Stu, when you leverage >> I don't know. the community. I thought it's inspiring. >> Okay. You know we can do >> Good great things when we work together and do that. So, we're always like oh I'm too busy or I don't have time it's like hogwash. >> Right. >> That's not the case. I'm inspired and fired up after all the conversations we had especially some of these great users here and looking forward to the next one. >> You're looking forward to the next one, you're looking forward to OpenStack coming up. >> Yeah, oh my gosh so right. >> Got to plug it. >> So Rebecca next week we're both going to be on theCUBE but in two different locales. Our team is in the midst of the sprint that is the spring tour. So we had the Micron event and we're here. Next week our team is at Service Now Knowledge, we're also at DELL EMC World in Vegas, we're at OpenStack Summit back in Boston. We've got some of our teams going to Microsoft Build. I'm sure we'll have analyst reports follow up from there. Boy do we have more shows than I can mention through the rest of May and June and beyond. Check out siliconangle.tv to catch all of them. Rebecca I'm going to let you do the close, but I have to say a big thanks to our team here and remote. >> Yes, yes. Leonard, Chuck, Alex, Ava. >> We love you all. Jeff and the team back there. You know we were doing some cool things playing with Facebook Live as part of this event, we always love playing around with some of the new technologies finding more ways that we can help reach you. We always appreciate your feedback. And Rebecca take us on home. >> Thank you so much for joining us here at theCUBE Red Hat Summit, Boston, Massachusetts. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, Thanks so much. {Electronic music}

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts it's the Cube, covering Red Hat Summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is Red Hat Summit and this is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante, with my co-host, Stu Miniman and Matt Hicks is here. Is the Vice President of the software engineering for OpenShift and management, at Red Hat. Matt, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much, good to be here. >> So this is where all the action is, is management and management of Clouds and inter Clouds and intra clouds, and it's the sort of next big battleground and you guys seem to be, doin really well there. Have a lot of momentum. >> It's been a good year. I think it's going to be a great year going forward, cause it, it adds a lot of customer value you know, they're seeing the drive to get applications across all these environments, and I think we've hit a good balance of what we can provide in OpenShift, or middle work portfolio management and you hear a lot of customers talking about it all through summits. >> Well we saw some pretty sick demos this morning. I got to ask ya, it was basically the reference model, was okay, got some web logic, and web sphere apps. You know, wink, wink. And you want to modernize them, and so you guys just showed like a five click modernization process. Is it really that simple? Are people really, really doing that? >> Yeah. We have customers that have moved thousands of applications like that, and they're all different sorts of applications. But going from, a proprietary EE stack to getting on something closer to EAP. To deploying it on OpenShift, that is our bread and butter. And it's great because EAP can take advantage of OpenShift, lets customers re-platform the apps that they have. And like we said on Key Net, it sort of frees up your time then to start building the fun stuff. Building the next apps, and you know we've had a ton of success with that. >> Matt so we had the opportunity to talk to some of the innovation award winners. What we haven't actually gotten to cover too much yet, is all the news. So there were a number of announcements in your space, wonder if you could help us, kind of unpack for our audience. >> Sure thing. So we, You will hear a lot about the, just the enterprise production adoption, of the new technologies. Because one of the things for us, it's easy to come up and talk about new technologies. We like actually bringing customers up that have taken that new technology to production. So that's one of the big themes you'll see here at Summit. We launched OpenShift IO. Which for us actually had great success of OpenShift as Hybrid Net platform, Prod. But as you heard from United Health Group, Optum this morning. They have 10,000 plus developers to roll that out to. And we knew we needed to close the gap on how to get empowered developers. So OpenShift IO was the new Cloud based services for that. We will also announce and talk about our container health index. So when you start really making the bed on containers, how do you know what's inside of em, how do you get a simple grading system to understand like A through F. How well maintained is this. As well as being able to look under the covers and understand what goes into that A or what goes into that F. >> And maybe explain that a little bit more, because I think about like, you know, okay, I remember like in the virtualization world, I understood that. So many of containers live a lot shorter life, so, is there, is this just a dashboard that rolls that up, because I want to know probably the general health of what's going on, because there's no way humans going to be able to keep track of it. And I mean, we're not all Google with two billion containers, being brought up and killed every week. But it tends to be, at least from what I've seen, tell me if you see otherwise, that most containers are still much shorter lived than OS's. Or you know, VM4B4. >> You know I think that's, it's one of the advantages. Is that they can be pretty volatile, like that effect. You know, we have capabilities, like in OpenShift, like Image Streams driven to say, "How do you respond and incorporate this?" At the end of the day, if you can grab a container that in our world has an A rating, no security vulnerabilities today, and in a week, you could have multiple critical CVE's, that have been open that now affect that container. And so the benefit of containers is, you can re-roll em, and you can consume that update, but if you don't know about it, and you stay on that old version, you carry the same risk as if you had an out of date OS, that was very static. >> Yeah, I think that answers back to, you know, Ben Gustav, that golden image. And they would pardon that, and they'd leave it that way for two to five years. Right. And we all laughed because my friends in the security space is like, that's the biggest problem we have, is you're not ready for that. So this is, understanding what you've got out there, being able to address that, remediate, you know, push out changes, or know like hey, if you haven't, this is what you're at risk of. >> Absolutely. And that creates for us, it creates this foundation of, both trust between our customers and Red Hat, with their consuming. But then also between Red Hat and our ISV's. Because most of out ISV's, they're not in the Linux business or they're building specialized middle work capabilities on our products. So it's equally important for them to understand that if they're on an out of date version of RHEL, and they've embedded that into their container, that can cause as many problems, and they need to apply the updates in their stack as our customers. >> But that kind of gets to the business model a little bit. And you're engineering, but so I have an engineering question. But, I think most people in our audience understands that you know, Red Hat is a company built on, open source. And you know people say, "Why buy the cows, the milk is free." Well you've perfected that model, you know, 2.4 billion dollars in revenue. Three billion dollars in bookings. So you're obviously doing something right, although, not many have been able to, actually nobody's been able to create a business model like this. My question is from an engineering stand point. When, you're built on open source, and you're not, driven toward a proprietary mindset of okay, let's lock them in to the next REV. How does that change, sort of the engineering mindset, the culture and the protocol going forward. >> I love it. I have been in Red Hat 11 plus years, and everyday you're not tied into, dropping a new feature and pushing customers to that new version for revenue. And so it changes our mindset of, how do we provide value across the entire range of supported offerings that we have. In the case of RHEL, you could stay on some versions of RHEL for quite a while, and we provide value there in keeping that thing working. But at the same point, we're constantly moving this along, adding new innovation. We're able to provide value there. And it, as an engineer, it is refreshing. Sorry. >> I'll chat for a minute. So you, you know, a lot of companies that are 20 plus years old, are criticized. Oh, they don't, innovate. You hear that all the time. They do incremental R and D. And it's true. They may spend a lot on R and D, but R and D is like a feature here, or another feature there. Design, to just keep putting the crumbs out. And what you're saying is, incremental is not, really fundamental part of your plan. >> Absolutely. We can, you know, we want to provide the same value for our customer if they're on RHEL six, or they're looking towards the next major version of RHEL. And they can move anywhere on that life cycle, and that's what they get as part of their subscription. Same thing with OpenShift. And that choice of customers, of being able to take a product, consume anywhere on the life cycle of it, it's good for customers and it's nice for us, because they're just different ways that you innovate. Of driving like, the next new great feature. Then you have other customers, that you are going to provide value through stability. >> So, when you, we go to a lot of these events, as you can imagine. And when you talk to the traditional, you know, software players, you get this massive dose, of well we do that too. We do containers, and, you know, we do Cloud, and we do Hybrid, and. So help us understand, the difference between how they do it and how you do Cloud. >> I think for us, if we picked containers, you know, I was talking to a group of customers this morning of every upstream technology we pick, that we're going to pull together into our products, We don't just pick em up and re-package em and give em to a customer, because we're a support business. So if it breaks at 3 a.m and I have to re-roll a kernel to be able to fix it, I have to understand every piece in the stack. So we start with, we're going to drive a contributor position in the technologies. We pick our bets and we go all in on those areas. So Cooper Netties will carry you know with Google as you know a great technical partner, we run the majority of the SIGs with them. We have a top contributor position, and that we invest really heavily in understanding that technology inside and out. And I think that's what shows in the customer value of we could certainly take stuff, repackage it and ship it. It doesn't carry the same value as being able to work with a customer, drive new features into the product and keep them running in PROD. >> Matt so you mentioned Cooper Netties. And I was actually a little surprised this morning in the key note, I didn't hear Cooper Netties. And I think the reason was, because I heard a lot about OpenShift, and that's just your mechanism for rolling that out there. I'm assuming your customers kind of understand that maybe you could help, you know, explain that a little bit more. >> Absolutely. And so, OpenShift is our enterprise, distribution Cooper Netties is, and that's sort of the business we're in. We have Linux and RHEL is our enterprise distribution of that. We now have Cooper Netties, this really popular community. OpenShift is our distribution of that, and for our customers. >> I was just saying, I guess you couldn't call it RECK. Which, Red Hat Enterprise, Cooper Nettie, probably wouldn't be a good idea. >> The world changes too fast. You pick names a long time ago. But it's a nice motto, because we know it. It's what we've done for a long time, and it builds on everything we've done with RHEL and it connects our middleware portfolio as well. So I've been on the op side, and I've been on the development side, and I love seeing us address stuff right in the gap there for customers. And I think that's why we're seeing so much customer traction. It's a sweet spot for where they've had pain, and it adds a lot of value for em. >> Could you speak a little bit of your customers. Where are they with containers, Cooper Netties, that whole adoption. >> A lot of them in production. Which is nice. It's nice from a support business, because if you have excitement, or if you have early traction, we're a subscription business, so we want to make sure you know, the more customers use it, the more you know, they're going to grow and actually utilize it. And when you hear customers like UHG saying, the 4000 projects built on OpenShift there. Those are, they have built up significant deployments on that, and Barkways, and I know we have a whole list of em that are here today. And so I like that fact of, it's not just a cool technology. Customers have taken all the way into production. And they're being really successful with it. which as an engineer you love. You want to see people using your products and solving problems with them. >> Absolutely. Matt you talked about the ethos of commitment and committers, to open source projects. One of the challenges for a company like yours, is you got to support a lot of different projects. So though, you saying, you make your bets. We've talked a lot about okay, will there ever be another Red Hat that emerges in the big data space. You see Cloud air, and Hortonworks, and they're always sort of lookin at those guys, as possibility. But they always sight the challenge of having to support so many projects. How do you manage that and did you, you've been with Red Hat for a while, did you hit a tipping point, at some point? Cause I mean certainly you have software margin, 80, 90% you know margins. You got a great operating you know margins. So you've crossed that chasm so to speak to pick a bromide, but, others have had such a challenge. Is it because they have to support those projects and it just takes a long time? And you guys baked over 20 years. I wonder if you can give us some insight there. >> You know, I think it's as much art as it is science, I would love to say. Like this is a you know, cold formula that we apply but, we have a good gut feeling for, if you're going to back a technology, or an upstream project, you want to make sure that it's going to expand beyond your own investment, and we've certainly made a lot of wrong bets that the technology doesn't evolve. But you've got to be able to change, and when we see some of the early indicators like in Cooper Netties. Those are the ones where, we like how it's governed, we like how it's structured, we like the other players that are in there, and that's just been one of the unique aspect of Red Hat, is we pick pretty well. >> So Matt, I'm wondering if you're willing to comment, we were at Dockercon a couple of weeks ago, they've done a shift to, how they're managing kind of, but the Moby project to do the open source stuff, what's your take on that? What's Red Hat's positioning there? It's been an interesting dynamic between Docker and Red Hat to watch the last couple of years. >> Yeah you know, I think Moby for us, it's one of, it's about 16 hundred different upstream projects that we pull in across our portfolios. And so, we're certainly watching it, and we're seeing them evolve. We've been involved for the technology for a while now, but we don't necessarily know where that's going to go right now. But we certainly look a it like we do, you know the whole, breath of open source projects we pull in. >> What else is on your horizon? What's exciting you these days? >> You know, I think just seeing the reality of Hybrid Cloud becoming, it's becoming real for our customers. Where they're able, you know, you probably saw some of the Amazon announcements today where, you're able to take services, that might be in the public Cloud and now pull them on Premise. You heard customers talk about taking OpenShift and running that all the way out to the public Cloud. And we love that aspect, because you know, being able to use infrastructure to power applications, I think it's going to change IT and, then all the pieces that emanate around that, it's exciting for ISV's, it's exciting you know, around our management products from Ansible to Cloud forms. It's just a lot that we can do there. >> On the management products, you know, what Dave said, one of the Bromides out there, when I became an analyst seven years ago, it's like we can say, well it's security and management are the biggest problems we have. I feel like I can go to that well anytime I need to do. How are we doing in industry and management. Obviously you've got your position, but you know, as the surface area of the landscape is just expanding exponentially, every. You talked about how many customers are multi Cloud today. So you know, we know there's not a single thing that can do everything but, how are we doing as an industry, in Red Hot specifically? >> I think form Red hat's position, we've had a lot of success with Ansible. Just becoming a core automation technology, cause I think the one common thread is, you have so many choices, you have so many pieces, you have to start automating them. How we did IT 15 years ago, just will not. It won't scale anymore. I think building up from that stack. How you move to policy based management, that's earlier in the space. But there is a ton of capabilities and we've seen customers using, you know from our perspective, it's combining Cloud forms on orchestration, and satellite for content, Ansible for automation. Because I describe it, so I have the operation teams that run our OpenShift online environments. That's a, a relatively small group of people that manages millions of applications. And they change faster than a human could push a button. And so, as customers get into that world, you know we're certainly not in the Google world yet, but when you get that 4A it changes how you have to manage it. It has to become automated, it has to become policy driven, and then it's fun. I like it. Like doing ops in the 90s versus how you do it today. It is refreshing as an operator to just have these tools are your fingertips. >> High frequency application development. Matt thanks very >> It really is! >> Much for coming on the Cube. It's great to see you, and congratulations and good luck going forward. >> Fantastic, thanks S. >> You're welcome. Alright keep it right there everybody. Stu and I will be right back with our next guest. This is Cube, we're live from Red Hat Summit in Boston. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)