>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everbody, this is Dave Vellante, and welcome to this special Cube conversation on a very important topic, cyber security and cyber resiliency. With me today is Stefan Voss who's the Senior Director of Product Management for Data Protection Software and Cyber Security and Compliance at Dell EMC. Stefan, thanks for coming on and helping us understand this very important topic ahead of RSA World. >> My pleasure, thanks Dave for having me. >> You're welcome, so let's talk about the environment today. We have, for years, seen back-up evolve into data protection, obviously disaster recovery is there, certainly long term retention. But increasingly, cyber resilience is part of the conversation. What are you seeing from customers? >> Yeah, definitely, we're seeing that evolution as well. It's definitely a changing market and what a perfect fit. We have to worry about right of breach, What happens when I get attacked? How can I recover? And the technologies we have, that we have for business resiliency back-up, they all apply, they all apply more than ever. But sometimes they have to be architected in a different way. So folks are very sensitive to that and they realize that they have great technologies. >> I'm glad you mentioned the focus on recovery because we have a lot of conversations on theCUBE about the CIO and how he, or she, should be communicating to the board, or the CSO, how they should be communicating to the board. That conversation has changed quite dramatically over the last 10 years. Cyber is a board-level issue. When you talk to, certainly large companies, every quarter they're talking about cyber. And not just in terms of what they're doing to keep the bad guys out but really what the processes are to respond, what the right regime is - you know, cyber security is obviously a team sport, it's not just the responsibility of the CSO or the SECOPS team, or the IT team, everybody has to be involved and be aware of it. Are you seeing that awareness at board levels within your customer base, and maybe even at smaller companies? >> 100%, I think the company size almost doesn't matter. Everybody can lose their business fairly quickly and there's one thing that NotPetya, that very bad, sort of, attack told us is that it can be very devastating. And so if we don't have a process and if we don't treat it as a team sport, we'll be uncoordinated. So, first of all, we learned that recovery is real and we need to have a recovery strategy. Doesn't mean we don't do detection, so the NIS continuum applies, but the CSOs are much more interested in the actual data recovery than they ever were before which is very interesting. And then, you know, you learn that the process is as important as the technology. So, in other words, Bob Bender - a fabulous quote from Founders Federal - you know, the notion of sweating before the game, being prepared, having a notion of a cyber recovery run book. Because the nature of the disasters are changing so, therefore, we have to think about using the same technologies in a different way. >> And I said at the open that things are shifting from just a pure back-up and recovery spectrum to much broader. The ROI is changing, people are trying to get more out of their data protection infrastructure than just insurance and, certainly, risk management and cyber resiliency and response is part of that. How is the ROI equation changing? >> Yeah, I mean, it's a very valid question. You know, we do have, people are asking for the ROI. We have to take a risk-based approach, we are mitigating risk. It's never fun to have any data protection or business resilience topology, 'cause it's incremental cost, but we do that for a reason. We need to be able to have an operational recovery strategy, a recovery strategy from a geographic disaster and, of course, now more so than ever a recovery strategy from a cyber attack. And so, therefore, we have to think about, you know, not so much the ROI but what is my risk reduction, right? By having, sort of, that process in place but also the confidence that I can get to the data that I need to recover. >> Now we're gonna get into that a little bit later when we talk about the business impact analysis. But I wanna talk about data isolation. Obviously ransomware is a hot topic today and this notion of creating an air gap. What is data isolation from your perspective? What are customers doing there? >> Yeah, I mean, I think almost every customer has a variant of data isolation. It's clear that it works, we've seen this from the NotPetya attack again that where we were, large logistics company, right, found data the domain controller on a system that underwent maintenance in Nigeria. So a system that was offline, but we don't wanna operate that way. So we wanna get the principles of isolation because we know it kind of reduces the attack surface, right, from the internal actor, from ransomware variants, you name it. All of these are, when you have stuff on the network it's theoretically fair game for the attacker. >> So that Nigeria example was basically by luck there was a system offline under maintenance that happened to be isolated? And so they were able to recover from that system? >> Absolutely. And another example was, of course, critical data that domain controller, 'cause that's what this attack happened to go after, was on tape. And so, you know, this just shows and proves that isolation works. The challenge we were running into with every customer we work with was the recovery time. Especially when you have to do selective recovery more often, you know, we wanna be able to get the benefits of online media. But also get, sort of, the benefits of isolation. >> Yeah, I mean, you don't wanna recover from tape. Tape is there as a last resort and hopefully you never have to go to it. How are customers, sort of, adopting this data isolation strategy and policy? Who's involved, what are some of the pre-requisites that they need to think about? >> Yeah, so the good thing - first thing's first, right. We have technology we know and love, so our data protection appliances where we started architecting this workflow, that we can use. So, in other words, you don't have to learn a new technology, buy something else. There's an incremental investment, yes. And then we have to think about who's involved. So that earlier point, the security folks are almost always involved, and they should be involved. Sometimes they fund the project, sometimes it comes out of IT. Right, so, this is the collaborative effort and then to the extent it's necessary, of course, you wanna have GRC - so the risk people - involved to make sure that we really focus on the most important critical assets. >> Now ahead of RSA, let's talk a little bit about what's going on in that world. There are security frameworks, Nist in particular is one, that's relatively new, I mean it's 2014 it came out, it's been revised really focusing on prevent, detect and, very importantly, respond. Something we've talked about a lot. Are people using that framework? Are they doing the self-assessments that Nist prescribes? What's your take? >> Yeah, I think they are. So, first of all, they are realizing that leaning too much left of breach, in other words hoping that we can always catch everything, sort of the eggshell perimeter, everybody understands that that's not enough. So we have to go in-depth and we also have to have a recovery strategy. And so the way I always like to break it down pragmatically is - one, what do I prioritize on? So we can always spend money on everything, but doing a business impact analysis and then maybe governing that in a tool like RSA Archer can help me be a little bit more strategic. And then, on the other end, if I can do a better job co-ordinating the data recovery along with the incident response, that will go a long way. You know and, of course, that doesn't forego any investment in the detection but it is widely adopted. >> One of the key parts about the NIS framework is understanding exposure in the supply chain where you may not have total control over one of your suppliers' policies, but yet they're embedded into your workflow. How are people handling that? Is there a high degree of awareness there? What are you seeing? >> It is absolutely, that's why product security is such an important element, and it's the number one priority for Dell Security, even above and beyond the internal security of our data center, as crazy as it sounds. Because, you know, we can do a lot of damage right in the market. So, certainly, supply chain, making sure we have robust products all along the way is something that every customer asks about all the time and it's very important. >> Let's go back to business impact analysis, we've mentioned it a couple of times now. What is a business impact analysis and how do you guys go about helping your customers conduct one? >> Yeah, I mean, let's maybe keep it to that example, let's say I go through this analysis and I find that I'm a little bit fuzzy on the recovery and that's an area I wanna invest. You know, and then I buy off on the concept that I have an isolated or cyber recovery vault on an isolated enclave onto which I can then copy data and make sure that I can get to it when I have to recover. The question then becomes, well what does business critical mean? And that's where the business impact analysis will help to say what is your business critical process - number one, number two - what are the associated applications, assets? 'Cause when you have that dependency map it makes it a lot easier to start prioritizing what applications do I put in the vault, in other words. In this specific example. And then how can I put it into financial terms to justify the investment? >> Well we were talking about ROI before, I mean really we've done actually quite a few studies looking at Global 2000 and the cost of downtime. I mean, these are real tangible metrics that, if you can reduce the amount of downtime or you can reduce the security threat, you're talking about putting money back in your pocket. Because Global 2000 organizations are losing millions and millions of dollars every year, so it is actually hard ROI. Even though some people might look at it as softer. I wanna talk about isolated data vault, you know, this notion of air gaps. What are you guys specifically doing there? Do you have solutions in that area? >> Yeah, we do. So we are using, luckily, so the concepts that we know from resiliency disaster recovery. Right, so our data protection storage which is very robust, it's very secure, it has very secure replication. So we have the mechanisms to get data into the vault, we have the mechanisms to create a read-only copy, so an immutable copy, that I can then go back into. So all of this is there, right, but the problem is how do I automate that workflow? So that's a software that we wrote that goes along with the data protection appliance sale. And what it does, it's all about ingesting that business critical data that I talked about into the secure enclave, and then rendering it into an immutable copy that I can get to when I have nowhere else to go. >> Okay, so you've got that gap, that air gap. Now, the bad guys will say 'Hey, I can get through an air gap, I can dress somebody up as a worker and put a stick in'. And so, how much awareness is there of that exposure? And I know it's maybe, you know, we're hitting the tip of the pyramid here, but still important. Can you guys help address that through, whether it's processes or product or experience? >> 100% so we have, of course, our consulting services that will then work with you on elements of physical security, or how do I lock down that remaining replication link? It's just about raising the bar for the attacker to make it more likely we'll catch them before they can get to, really, the prized assets. We're just raising the bar but, yes, those are things we do. So consulting, physical security, how do I do secure reporting out? How do I secure management going in? How do I secure that replication or synchronization link into the vault? All of these are topics that we then discuss, if they kind of deviate from the best practices and we have very good answers through our many customer arrangements. >> Stefan, let's talk about some of the specific offerings. RSA is a portfolio company in the Dell Technologies Group, it's a sister company of Dell EMC. What are you guys doing with RSA? Are you integrating with any of their specific products? Maybe you could talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, I think, so when you think about recovery and incident response being so important, there's an obvious, right? So what RSA has found - I thought this was very interesting is that there's a lack of coordination between, typically, the security teams and the data professionals, data restoration professionals. So the more we can bridge that gap through technology, reporting, the better it is, right? So, there's a logical affinity between an incident response retainer, activity, and the data recovery solutions that we provide. That's one example, right? So every day counts, that example that I talked about NotPetya, the specific customer was losing 25 Euros every day. If I can shave off one day, it's money in the bank. Or money not out of the bank. The other area is, how do I make sure that I'm strategic about what data I protect in this way? That's the BIA Archer. And then there's some integrations we are looking at from an analytics perspective. >> Archer being the sort of governance risk and compliance, workflow, that's sort of one of the flagship products of RSA. So you integrate to that framework. And what about analytics, things like IOC, RSA NetWitness, are those products that you're integrating to or with, or leveraging in any way? >> Yeah, first off, analytics in general it's an interesting concept now we have data inside our secure enclave, right? So what if we could actually go in and give more confidence to the actual copies that we're storing there. So we have an ecosystem from an analytics perspective. We work with one specific company, we have Arrest API-based integration where we then, essentially, use them to do a vote of confidence on the copy, of the raw back up. Is it good? Are there signs that it was corrupted by malware? and so forth. So what that helps us do is be more proactive around our recovery because, I think you're about to say something - but if I knew there's something, you know, suspicious then I can start my analytics activity that much sooner. >> Well the lightbulb went off in my head. Because if I have an air gap, and I was saying before, it's necessary but insufficient. If I can run analytics on the corpus of the back up data and I can identify anomalies, I might be able to end run somebody trying to get through that air gap that I just mentioned before. Maybe it's a physical, you know, security breach. And the analytics might inform me. Is that a reasonable scenario? >> It is a reasonable scenario, though we do something slightly different. So, first of all, detection mechanisms, left of breach stuff, is what it is, we love it, we sell it, you know, we use it. But, you know, when it comes to back up they're not off-the-shelf tools we can just use and say 'Hey, why don't you scan this back up?' It doesn't typically work. So what we do is, in the vault, we have time, we have a workbench so it's almost like sending a specimen to the lab. And then we take a look at it. Are there any signs that there was data corruption that was indicative of a ransomware attack? And when there is such a scenario we say, 'You might wanna take a look at it, and do some further investigation'. That's when we then look at NetWitness or working with the security teams. But we can now be of service and say 'You might wanna look at this copy over here'. It's suspicious, there's an indicative compromise. And then take the next steps other than hoping for the best. >> You mentioned the ecosystem, you mentioned the ecosystem before. I wanna double-click on that. So, talk about the ecosystem. We've said here it's a team sport, you can't just do it alone. From a platform perspective is it open, is it API based? Maybe you can give some examples of how you're working with the ecosystem and how they're leveraging the platform. >> Yeah 100%. So, like I said, so we have, you know, our data protection appliances and that's sort of our plumbing, right, to get the data to where I want. We have the orchestration software. This is the part we're talking about. The orchestration software has Arrest API, everything's documented in Swagger. And the reason we did that is that we can do these orchestrations with third party analytics vendors, that's one use case right? So, I'm here, I have a copy here, please scan, tell me what you find and then give me an alert if you find something. The other example would be, maybe, doing a level of resiliency orchestration. Where you'd automate the recovery workflow beyond what we would have to offer. There are many examples but that is how we are enabling the ecosystem, essentially. >> You mentioned Founders Federal earlier. Is that a customer, is that a reference customer? What can you tell me about them? >> Yeah it's a reference customer and they very much saw the need for this type of protection. And, you know, we've been working with them. There's a Dell World, last year, session that we did with them. And very much the same sort of, like the quote said, focus on the process not only the product and the set of technologies, right? And, so that's how we've been partnering with them. >> The quote being 'Sweat before the game'? Founders Federal, that's a great quote. Alright, we've talked a lot about just, sort of, general terms about cyber recovery. What can you tell us, tell the audience, what makes Dell EMC cyber recovery different in the marketplace and, you know, relative to your competition? Pitch me. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very unique capability. Because, one, you need a large install base and, sort of, a proven platform to even built it on, right? So when you look at the data domain technology we have a lot to work with. We have a lot of customers using it. So that's very hard to mimic. We have the orchestration software where we, I believe, are ahead of the game, right? So the orchestration software that I talked about that gets the data into the vault securely. And then our ecosystem, right? So those are really the three things. And then, of course, we have the consulting services which is also hard to mimic. To really, you know, design the process around this whole thing. But I think the ecosystem, sort of, approach is also very powerful. >> You have a big portfolio, you've got your sister company that's, sort of, well known obviously in this business. Do you also have solutions? I mean, for instance, is there an appliance as part of the portfolio that fits in here? And what is that? >> Yeah, so, you can think of this as, if I wanted to really blow it down, the two things I would buy is a data domain - it could be the smallest one - and a VxRail appliance that runs the software. And then I stick that in the vault. And then there's, sort of, that product. So you can think of it as an appliance that happens to go with the software that I talked about that does the orchestration. >> Okay, so, RSA the premier conference on cyber coming up in a couple of weeks. What have you guys got going there? Give us a little tease. >> Yeah, absolutely. So it's gonna be an awesome show and we will have a booth, and so we look forward to a lot of customer conversations. And we do have a panel. It's gonna be with Mastercard and RSA and myself. And we're really gonna take it from left of breach all the way to right of breach. >> Awesome, do you know when that panel is yet? >> It is, I think, on the 5th, I may have to check. >> Which is which day? >> I wanna say it's Wednesday. >> So it starts on the Monday, right? So that'll be day three. So check the conference schedule, I mean things change at the last minute. But that's great. Mastercard is an awesome reference customer. We've worked with them in the past and so, that's great. Stefan, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE and sharing some of your perspectives and what's coming up at RSA. It's good to have you. >> Thanks so much, Dave, I appreciate it. >> Okay, thanks for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante from our East Cost headquarters. You're watching theCUBE.

>> Live from the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort in Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .conf2016. Brought to you by Splunk. Now, here are your hosts John Furrier and John Walls. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE. The flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV where we extract a signal from the noise. We're live at conf2016 here in Orlando, Florida on the show floor. A lot of activity, a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz and a really good segment coming up for you here. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls and we're joined by two gentlemen from the Herjavec Group, Robert Herjavec. Good to see you, sir. >> Greetings. Thank you for having us. >> The CEO, and Atif Ghauri is Senior VP at Herjavec. Good to see you, sir. >> Yes. >> First off, Robert, congratulations. Newly married, your defense was down for a change. Congratulations on that. (laughter) >> Oh thank you. It was wonderful. It was a great wedding, lots of fun but casual and just a big party. >> Yeah, it was. Looked like, pictures were great. (laughter) People obviously know you from Shark Tank. But the Herjavec Group has been, really, laser focused on cyber security for more than a decade now. Tell us a little bit about, if you would, maybe just paint the broad picture of the group, your focus, and why you drilled down on cyber. >> Yeah, I've been in the security business for about 30 years. I actually helped to bring a product called CheckPoint to Canada firewalls, URL filtering, and that kind of stuff. And we started this company 12 years ago, and our vision was to do managed services. That was our vision. No other customer's vision, but our vision. And we thought we'd do $5 million in sales in our first year and we did $400000. The market just wasn't there. SIEM technology, log aggregation isn't what it is today. I mean, I think at the time, it was enVision. What was it called? >> Yeah, enVision. >> enVision. And then RSA bought them. That was really the first go-to-market SIEM. Then you had ArcSight and Q1. So our initial business became around log aggregation, security, writing parsers. And then over time it grew. It took us five years to get to $6 million in sales, and we'll do about $170 million this year. We went from a Canadian company to really a global entity. We do a lot of business in the States, UK, Australia, everywhere. >> But you're certainly a celebrity. We love havin' you on theCUBE, our little Shark Tank in and of itself. But you're also an entrepreneur, right? And you know the business, you've been in software, you've been in the tech business, so you're a tech athlete, as we say. This world's changing right now. And I'm certain you get a lot of pitches as entertainment meets business. But the fact that the entrepreneurial activity, certainly in the bay area and San Francisco, the Silicon Valley, where I live, and all around the world, is really active. Whether you call the programmer or culture or just the fact that the cloud is allowing people to start companies, you're seeing a surge in entrepreneurship in the enterprise. (laughs) Which is like, was boring in the past, you know? You just mentioned CheckPoint in the old days, but now it's surging. Your thoughts on the entrepreneurial climate? >> I dunno if the enterprise entrepreneurship element is surging. By the way, I'm going to say intrepreneur, just the way I say it. Cuban always makes fun of me. (laughter) We don't say it like that in America! I'm like, screw off! (laughter) >> That's how you say it! >> I want to say it the way I want to say it. >> Well, internal entrepreneurs, right? Is that what you mean by intrepreneurship? >> Well, no. I'm just, it's just the way I say it. >> It's a Canadian thing. >> But business to business enterprise, we've always been in the enterprise business. So we're seeing a lot of growth in that area, a lot of VC money's going into that area, because it's more, you know, you can measure that level of return and you can go and get those customers. But on our show, we're a bubble. We don't do a lot of tech deals like we're talking because it's boring TV. Tech people love tech, consumers love the benefit of tech. You know, no consumer opens up their iPhone and says, oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iPhone. They just love their iPhone. And our show is really a consumer platform that is-- >> It's on cable TV, so it's got a big audience. So you got to hit the wide swath-- >> We're one of the highest-rated shows on network television. Eight years, three Emmys. You know, it's a big show now. And what we've all learned is, because Mark Cuban and I are tech guys, we used to look for stuff we know. We don't invest in stuff we know any more. We invest in slippers, ugly Christmas sweaters, food products, because if you can tap into that consumer base, you're good to go. >> So bottom line, has it been fun for you? I mean, the show has been great. I mean, obviously the awards have been great. Has it been fun for you? What's it been like, what's the personal feeling on being on the Shark Tank. >> You know, filming is fun, and hanging out is fun, and it's fun to be a celebrity at first. Your head gets really big and you get really good tables at restaurants. There's no sporting venue-- >> People recognize you. >> Yeah. >> You get to be on theCUBE. (laughter) >> I get be on theCUBE. >> Doesn't happen every day. >> You get to go everywhere. But after a while it gets pretty dry. But it really helps our brand. We compete, typically, against IBM, Verizon, and you know, the CEO of IBM, you're not going to see him selling his security. >> Well I know they're doin' a lot, spending a lot of cash on Watson, trying to get that to work, but that's a whole 'nother story. But let's get down and dirty on Splunk. You're here because you're doin' a talk. Give a quick take on what you're talking about, why are you here at .conf for Splunk? >> Yeah, we're doing a talk on data transformation. The world today is about data. And the amount of data points and access points and the internet of things, it's just exponential growth. The stat I always love, and Atif's heard it 1000 times is, there's roughly three billion people on the internet today, and there's roughly six billion or seven billion IP addresses. By 2020, according to the IPV Committee, there'll five, six billion people connected. And hundreds of trillions of IP addresses. >> And the IoT is going to add more surface area to security attacks. I mean, it used to be, the old days, in CheckPoint, the moat, the firewall, backdoor, frontdoor. >> The idea of the perimeter is gone now. There is no such thing as a perimeter any more, because everything you can access. So a lot of work in that area. And all of that comes to data and log aggregation. And what we've seen for years is that the SIEM vendors wanted to provide more analytics. But if you really think about it, the ultimate analytics engine is Splunk. And Splunk now, with their ESM module, is moving more into the security world and really taking away market share. So we're very excited by, we have a great relationship with the Splunk guys, we see nothing but future growth. >> And you're using Splunk and working with it with your customers? >> We do, we've been using Splunk for a while. We have a private cloud. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, so we eat our own dog food. So not only do we sell Splunk, but we also use it in-house. We've been usin' it for over five years, and it powers our analytics platform, which is a fancy way to say, reduces the noise from all the different clutter from all the IoT, from all the different type of alerts that are comin' in. Companies need a way to filter through all that noise. We use Splunk to solve that problem for us internally, and then, of course, we sell it and we manage it for Global 2000 customers, Fortune 100 companies all over the world. >> Tell us what about the role of data, 'cause data transformation has been a big buzzword it's a holistic message around businesses digitizing and getting digital assets in front of their customers. We have a big research division that does all of this stuff. By the end of the day, you know, the digitization business means you're going to have to go digital all the way. And role of data is not the old data warehousing days, where it's fenced away, pull it in, now you need data moving around, you need organic sharing of data, data's driving policies and new pattern recognitions for security. How do you guys see that evolving? How do you talk to your customers, because in a way, the old stuff can work if you use the data differently. We're seeing a pattern, like, hey, that's an algorithm I used 10 years ago. But now, with new data, that might be workable. What are some of the things that you're seeing now that customers are doing that you talk to that are leveraging data, like Splunk, in a new way? >> Well, that's really where Splunk adds so much value, because a friend of mine is the dean of USC. And he has a great saying, more data is not necessarily more information. And so, the mistake that we see customers making a lot is they're collecting the data, but they're not doing the right things with it. And that's really where Splunk and that level of granularity can add tremendous value, not just from logging, but from analytics and going upstream with it. >> Yeah, and also, to that point, it's just automation. There's too much data >> That's a great point. >> And it's only going to get bigger, right, based on that stat Robert rattled off. Now, we need some machine learning analytics to move it further. And all points aside, machine learning isn't where it needs to be right now. Today in the market, it still has a long way to go. I would call it a work in progress. But however, it's the promise, because there's too much data, and to secure it, to automate behavior, is really what what we're looking for. >> The example I saw is the innovation strategy's comin' to take, and they're growin' with mobility, growin' with cloud, increase the surface area, IoT. But the supervised areas of the enterprise were the doors, right? Lock the doors. And perimeter is now dead. So now you have an unsupervised environment and the enterprise at risk. Once the hackers get in, they're havin' their way. >> The internet is, like, a kindergarten playground where there are no rules and the teacher went home at lunch. (laughter) That is the internet. And kids are throwin' crap. >> And high school. I think it would be high school. Kindergarten through high school! >> And you have different-aged kids in there. >> It's chaos, bedlam! >> Very well said. The internet is chaos, but by nature, that's what we want the internet to be. We don't want to control the chaos because we limit our ability to communicate, and that's really the promise of the internet. It's not the responsibility of the internet to police itself, it's the responsibility of each enterprise. >> So what new things are happening? We're seeing successes. Certainly, we're reporting on companies that are being successful are the ones that are doing reverse of what was once done, or said differently, new ways of doing things. Throwin' out kind of tryin' to do a hybrid legacy approach to security, and seeing the new ways, new things, new better cat and mouse games, better honeypots, intelligent fabrics. What do you guys recommend to your customers and what do you see, in your talk, this digital transformation's definitely a real trend, and security is the catastrophic time bomb that's ticking for all customers. So that's, it dwarfs compliance, risk management, current... >> Well, I dunno if that's necessarily true, that it's a time bomb. You know, the number one driver for security, still, is compliance. We sell stuff people don't really want to buy. Nobody wakes up and the morning and says, yeah, I want to go spend another $5 million on security. They do it, frankly, because they have to. If none of their competitors were spending money on security, I don't think most enterprises would. I mean, whenever you have to do something because it's good to do, you have a limited up cycle. When you do something because there's a compliance reason to do it, or bad things happen to you, you're really going to do it. >> So you think there's consumer pressure, then, to have to do this, otherwise-- >> Interesting stat, the Wall Street Journal did a study and asked 1000 people on a street corner in New York if, for a hamburger, they will give away their social insurance number, their home number, and their name. 72% of people gave out that information freely. >> Better be a good hamburger. (laughs) >> Back to your point, though, I want to get a-- >> So I think consumers have an expectation of security, and how they police that is they simply go to somebody else. So if you're my retailer and you get breached, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go next door. But I think that the average consumer's expectation is, security's your responsibility, not mine. >> Okay, so on the B to B side, let's get that. I wanted to push you on something I thought I kind of disagreed with. If compliance, I agree, compliance has been a big part of data governance and data management. >> Yeah, PCI has been the biggest driver in security in the last five years. >> No doubt. However, companies are now sharing data more with other companies. Financial institutions are sharing core data with other financial institutions, which kind of teases out the trend of, I'll give you some of my data to get, to fight the fraud detection market because it's a $1 trillion problem. So as you start to see points of growth where, okay, you start to see people go outside their comfort zone on compliance to share data. So we're tryin' to rationalize that. Your thoughts? I mean, is that an indicator? Do you see that as a trend, or, I mean, obviously locking down the data would be, you know. >> I think it's challenging. I mean, we were at the president's council on security last year at Stanford. And you know, President Obama got up there, made some passionate speech about sharing data. For the goodness of all of us, we need to share more data and be more secure. I got to tell you, you heard that speech and you're like, yeah baby, I'm going to share my data, we're all going to work together. Right after him, Tim Cook got up there (laughter) and said, I will never share my data with anybody in the government! And you heard him, and you're like, I am never sharing my data with anybody. >> Well there's the tension there, right? >> Well, this is a natural-- >> Natural tension between government and enterprise. >> Well, I think there's also a natural tension between enterprises. There's competitive issues, competitor pressures. >> Apple certainly is a great case. They hoard their data. Well, this is the dilemma, right? You want to have good policy, but innovation comes from experimentation. So it's a balancing act between what do you kind of do? How do you balance-- >> Yeah, it's a great time to be in our space. I mean, look at this floor. How many companies are here? Splunk is growing by 30%, the show itself, 30% per year. They're going to outgrow this venue next year and they're going to go, probably, Vegas or somebody. I think that's exciting. But these are all point products. The fastest-growing segment in the computer business is managed services, because the complexity in that world is overwhelming, and it's extremely fragmented. There's no interlinking. >> Talk about your business in there right now. What are you guys currently selling, how many employees do you have, what's the revenues like, what's the product mix? >> Yeah, so we are a global company. So we have 10 offices worldwide and close to 300 employees. We're one of the fastest-growing companies in North America. We sell, our focus is managed security services. We do consulting as well as incident response remediation, but the day-to-day, we want your logs, we want to do monitoring, we want to help with-- >> So you guys come in and do deployments and integration and then actually manage security for customers? >> We do the sexy of gettin' it in, and then we also do the unsexy of managing it day-to-day. >> Atif, nothing unsexy about our work. (laughter) >> It's all sexy, that's what theCUBE show's about. >> It's all sexy! >> That's why theCUBE's a household name. We have celebrities coming on now. Soon we'll be on cable. >> That's right! This will be a primetime show. (laughter) >> Before we know it! >> That's funny, I got approached by a network, I can't tell you who, big network with a big producer to do a cybersecurity show. And so, they approached me and they said, oh, we think it's going to be so hot. It's such a topical thing. So they spent a day with me and our team to watch what we do. There is no cybersecurity show! (laughter) They're like, do you guys do anything besides sit on the computer? >> You have a meeting and you look at the monitor. It's not much of a show. >> Does anybody have a gun?! (laughter) >> It's not great for network TV, I think. >> Build a wall. >> Someone has to die in the end. That has to be network TV. And yeah, but I mean, there's a problem. There's 1.4 million cyber jobs open right now. And that's not even including any data science statistics. So you know, so we're reporting that-- >> I'm sure it's the same thing in data science. >> Same problem. How do you take a high skill that there's not enough talent for, hopefully, computer science education, all that stuff happens, and automate it. So your point about automation. This is the number one problem. How do you guys advise clients what the hell do they do? >> You know, automation's tough. We just had this meeting before we got on here, because in our managed service, it's people-driven. We want to automate it. But there's only a certain amount of automation you can do. You still need that human element. I mean, if you can automate it, somebody can buy a product and they're secure. >> Machine learning isn't where it's supposed to be. Every vendor aside, machine learning's not where it needs to be, but we're getting there. Having succinct automation helps solve the cybersecurity labor shortage problem, because the skill level that you hire at can go lower. So you reduce the learning curve of who you need to hire, and what they do. >> That's a great point. I think the unsupervised machine learning algorithms are going to become so much smarter with the Splunk data, because they are, that's a tough nut to crack because you need to have some sort of knowledge around how to make that algorithm work. The data coming in from Splunk is so awesome, that turns that into an asset. So this is a moving train. This is the bigtime. Okay, go step back for a second, I want to change gears. Robert, I want to get your thoughts, because since you're here and you do a lot of, you know, picking the stocks, if you will, on Shark Tank, in the tech world, our boring tech world that we love, by the way. >> We love it too. >> How do you, as someone who's got a lot of experience in cycles of innovation, look at the changing digital transformation vendor landscape, Splunk, companies like Oracle tryin' to transform, Dell bought EMC, IBM's pivoting, Amazon is booming. How do you look at the new digital enterprise, and how do you look at that from, if you're a customer, an investor, where's the growth stocks, where's the growth companies, what's the growth parameters, what's your thoughts? >> One of the reasons a lot of our industry, why I got into tech was I had no money, my dad worked in a factory, my mom was a receptionist. And the old adage is, to make money, you need money. To get ahead, it's not what you know, it's who you know. I didn't know anybody. And the value of tech is tech transforms every three years. We follow these cycles where we eat our own young and we throw away stuff that doesn't add value. Tech is the great equalizer, 'cause if you don't add value, nobody cares. And you know, when I'm starting out as a guy with a small company, I love that! We're going to kick ass, we're going to add value. Now that we're a little bigger-- >> Well, when you're a young company you can eat someone's lunch, because if they're not paying attention, you can come in and-- >> For sure. It gets harder as you get bigger because now we're the big guys that somebody in their basement's tryin' to take out. But you know, we see tremendous innovation in security. If you look back three years, who were the leaders in the SIEM space? ArcSight, Q1, Nitro to a lesser degree, and enVision. Today, does RSA have a strategy around a SIEM? They have Netwitness, you know, security analytics, which is kind of a SIEM. Q1 is in the throes of the IBM machine, somewhere in their gut, nobody knows. ArcSight, who buys ArcSight anymore? It's so complicated. Who's the leader? Splunk! >> So back to the old classic team. Obviously, you have good people on the management team. Product matters now, in tech, doesn't it? More than ever. Obviously, balance sheet. Okay, let's get back to the data transformation. So you know, data is so critical now, and again, it's more from that data warehouse, which still is around, but to real-time data having value, moving it into different applications. Question is, how do you value data? I mean, you can't put it on the balance sheet. I mean, people value factories. GE said, we have all this investment in machines and assets. They worry about someone getting their data and doing a judo move on them. So data is truly an asset that's flying out of their network. How does companies value data? Can it ever be on the balance sheet? How do you look at that? >> I don't think data, in of itself, has any value. It's the effect of the data that has the value. And it's a very singular, it's what somebody does to it. Whatever the data is worth to you, from a business perspective, it's worth fundamentally more to an outside bad party because they can package that data and sell it to a competitor, a foreign government, all those kind of places. So it's the collection of raw data and applying it to something that has meaning to a third party. >> So it's like thermodynamics, really. Until it's in motion, it's really not worth anything. I mean, that's what you're saying. Data's data until it's put to work. >> Right, I don't think you're ever going to see it on a balance sheet as a hard, core value, because it has to have a transformative value. You have to do something with it. It's the something. >> So pretend you're in Shark Tank and you're a data guy, and you say, boss, I need more budget to do security, I need more budget to expand our presence. And the guy says sorry, I need to see some ROI on that data. Well, I just have a gut feeling that if we move the data around, it's going to be worth something. Oh, I pass. You can't justify the investment. So a lot of that, I mean, I'm oversimplifying it, but that's kind of like a dialogue that we hear in customers. How do you get that-- >> What I always tell CIOs and CCOs, it's challenging to get budget to do a good thing or the right thing. It's easier to get budget to do the necessary thing. And so, necessary is defined by the nature of your business. So if you make widgets and you want to get more budget to protect the widgets, no one cares. No one's sitting around, and like oh, are my widgets safe? They are, to certain degree, and they'll have limited budget for that. But if you go to them and say, you know what, we have a risk that if somebody can attack our widgets, we're going to be down for three days. And being down for three days or three hours has a dollar cost of $5 million. I need an extra $2.5 million to protect that from happening. As a business guy and a CEO, I understand that. >> That's great advice. >> And that's the biggest challenge, still, with security people is, we're technical people. We're not used to talking to business guys. >> It's like house insurance, in a way, or insurance. You invest this to recover that. >> It's a great analogy. You know, I used to race cars, and I had a life insurance premium for key man insurance. And my insurance agent comes along and says, you should buy a bigger policy. I'm like, I don't need a bigger policy. It's so much money, we're okay. And then he says to me, you know, if you die in a racecar, I'm not sure you're covered. (laughter) But if you pay me another $10000 a year in coverage, you're covered. Did I buy it? Absolutely. And it's the same analogy. >> That's very necessary. Personal question for you. So if you're, your dad had a factory, you mentioned. I saw that you mentioned that earlier. If he had a factory today in a modern era of IoT, and you were going to give him a digital transformation consulting project, how would you advise him? Because a lot of people are taking their analog business and kind of digitizing it. Some already have sensors in there. So you see it in manufacturing, and certainly, the industrial aspect of IoT has been a big deal. How would you advise your dad building a factory today? >> Yeah, so I think there's two aspects to it. One is just, you know, everything we've been talking about, data transformation, data analytics, making things better, none of those things are possible unless you're actually collecting the data. It's like, customers come to us and say, you know what, we don't want you to just manage our logs and tell us what's going on, we want higher-level value. And I'm like, no, I get that, but unless you're actually aggregating the logs, none of the upstream stuff matters. So first thing is, you have collect the data. Whether that's sensors, old devices, mechanical devices, and so on. The second part of it is, the minute you open up your factory and open up the mechanical devices and attach them to a PC or anything that's network-based, you're open for risk. And so, we're seeing that now in utilities, we're seeing that with gas companies, oil companies. You know, up until a few years ago, you couldn't physically change the flow of a pipeline, unless there was a physical connection, a mechanical on-off. It was very binary. Today, all those systems are connected to the internet. And it saves companies a lot of money 'cause they can test them and stuff. But they're also open to hackers. >> Bigtime. >> Well gentlemen, we appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> And who says tech hasn't got a little pizazz, I mean-- (laughter) >> Come on, I was on Dancing with the Stars, that's a lot of pizazz! >> It's been great! >> You guys are exciting, but you are, no! >> Dancing with the Stars, of course! >> All right. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, thanks for bein' in theCUBE Tank, we appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Don't call us, we'll call you. (laughter) Gentlemen, thank you very much. >> We're booked, maybe we can get you on next time. >> Okay, we're out. >> .conf2016, CUBE coverage continues live from Orlando. (electronic jingle)