>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering DELL Technologies World 2019. Brought you by DELL Technologies, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Furrier, day two of theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019. We have been talking with lots of great folks the last couple of days, and we are pleased to welcome to theCUBE Erin Banks, Director of Product Marketing for DELL EMC. Erin it's great to have you on theCUBE. >> It's great to be here, thank you so much. >> So this is the second branded DELL Technologies World. The first one since DELL became a publicly traded company once again. But you have a storied past of all this experience with a lot of these brands. Give us a little bit of your background as you've made your way through all these companies, and left your mark. >> Yeah, I feel like I've hit just about every corporate conference that we have under DELL Technologies, 'cause I came in originally through RSA around 2006, and then that acquisition happened, and then I transitioned over to EMC. So then we started the whole EMC World before, RSA Conference, EMC World. Always continuing to support security. Always continuing to do that. Went to VMware, they're doing the support security. We had a Vspecials program, so we wanted to sell EMC products for VMware products. So we continue to do that. So I think there's VMware and then I came back, I left for a little bit and then I came back. So I always joke that I have four companies I think left, and I would've had like, I think I get an award for having worked at every seven of the companies. (Lisa laughs) >> At least a mug, right? >> Yeah, I should get something I think. >> You should. >> Yeah, I think so. A jacket. >> Alright, so what's your current role now? So you're working in what group? Where are you now? >> Yeah, so right now I'm focused on structure, storage, divisions. So that's going to be Isilon, ECS, ClarityNow and the project Nautilus, and we're focused from a marketing perspective. I'm the Director of Product Marketing for that group. >> Yeah, storage didn't get a lot of keynote coverage. Normally they do get a lot with the EMC, 'cause obviously there's a lot of things going on around Dell Technology World, but Michael Dell said, storage isn't stopping, 'cause you have more data coming in. So unstructured is a big part of it. >> It's huge. >> Whether it's social data, gestured, any kind of Data Exaust, IoT, data is data, right? And the unstructured is the large growing percentage of the overall data population. >> Yeah, I think somebody gave me a statistic that 80% of the data that's generated is unstructured data, right? And people need to keep it and they need to, in some situations like Thomas Driving Systems, they need to keep it for a very very long time. So, there's always that debate of all these years that I've been at these conferences, about how long you keep the data, and obviously archiving them and where are you moving them, giving the customers the options. We're still obviously talking about that, which is great, but now we just have more and more data. Now it's really, from an Isilon perspective, we're focused on the management, and also the real estate, right? Because there isn't just every amount of space that every data center can have. Customers are running out of data center space, and they're running out of people, right? And they're like, listen, I can't hire anymore people, I want to focus on the business, and that's what we support from an Isilon perspective, is focusing on the business. I mean we obviously focus from all of UDS, but our announcements today were a focus on Isilon. >> So large growth, okay, but with the habit of, okay, just store it, we'll get to it later, it's been a nice luxury with unstructured, because some of the technology allows you to store it. Some call it a data lake or data swamp, depending on how you look at it. Now that the focus is getting more out of the data, while still storing it, right? Just throw it into the pile or into the corpus or into the data lake or whatever storage it is. Getting the mechanism to get the data out, and making it relevant and valuable is a focus. What's going on there? What are some key trends that are happening that you guys are riding? >> Yeah, well we're talking a lot, we have a campaign around data capital, right? And obviously as we all know, data has a lot of value within organizations. I'd like to tell customers that data has more value than we do as the employees. Companies will get bought and they'll fire the people, because they just want the data. And we can't ignore that fact, right? What does it say about the businesses customers? What does it say about their likes or dislikes? What does it say about where the company needs to go? The only way you know, to be successful, I think, in the next three to five years is to understand your customers and what they need, right? We had a bank the other day that was like, well all of our customers are 50 years old, so we're not going to do applications, and we don't really care about our data, and you're like, but you have people that are coming up behind that are using applications, right? That want more of a service. It's no longer, I say to banks, you don't need to buy another bank, right? You need to provide a service to me. How do you get that value out of that data to understand who I am as a customer or what I like, where I travel, what do I do in my day to day life, and give me that service, so I continue to be a customer for you. That's essential. >> It is essential. We talk about customer experience a lot. It's absolutely essential, because whether we're consumers of banking services or retail or whatever it is, we have so much choice. >> Correct. >> And especially with social media, I talk about unstructured data, we have a voice and the opportunity to get that out there, and go in turn. So really evaluating that data and understanding, and making decisions on that data to deliver a personalized experience is table stakes. >> Yes, I mean, we talk about this all the time, about the markets that are not doing it. Like retail, right? They always talk about, everyone wants to go to Amazon and buy their clothes or now there's boxes that are coming to your door with all the clothes in it. So how does the real estate business stay essential to me as a buyer, we all need clothes, but what gets me back into the store, right? And we talk about the sensors, right? We talk about the data that is generated of just me walking around the stores. How long do I spend in front of an item, right? Can I have a coupon that's popped up on my phone, right? How do I get more from an experience. And I think these are the struggles that organizations are having. We were talking to a customer that's managing a sports arena and the biggest thing is, how do you get them back into the arena? How do you change their experience, because they're a Canadian company, they don't want to be standing outside in the cold, 'cause it's hockey season, everyone loves it. How do you get them in earlier, because now there's more security, right? We have this, I always call it the physics effect, right? You have one change, it ripples into everything else. So it's cold, the security lines are long, I'd rather be at home watching this. How do I get that experience? And these are the partnerships that are being created with companies like athletic companies, and sports arenas and sports teams and things like that to really change an experience that we have, and the only way you could do that is with data, right? The enormous amount of data that we have. We couldn't do that if we didn't have the data. >> So what do they just come up with a better solution, not standing outside and getting in quickly? >> Yes, so, yeah we talked about this, right? We did a great podcast about this, because they're now doing these programs where they'll bring you in earlier, right? So maybe they'll have dinner and of couple beers, right? And you can come in and kind of enjoy the arena when no game is going on, but you get in earlier out of the cold. They talked about buying retail from your seats, right? And they test it out. That wasn't successful. So it's a really good kind of option along those lines. People like to walk around and look, and they touch and feel the items, and look at all of their options. So these are great things that they were able to test. The digital signage has been a huge impact from an analytics perspective. Really being able to change it. The amount of growth that organizations have achieved from just digital signage has been enormous. So, they're really transforming their businesses in different aspects, and it's all really driven from the data. >> So what's going on with the products that you guys are doing? What's the value proposition for Isilon? Where's the focus for you now? >> Yeah, so, we're always continuing to just answer the questions that our customers are having. Which always comes down to the amount of data that we have, how to continue to manage that, and then how to manage it in this data center. So we had a release today, which were focused both from a software aspect as well as a hardware aspect and now our software of OneFS, so it's still the single file system, is not being able to scale out to 252 nodes. It was 144 before. Now it's 58 petabytes. And what I love most about that is, how you manage 58 petabytes is exactly how you manage a terabyte. I mean that's important to a customer, where they're saying, I could easily add storage within a minute, I don't have to worry about it, and I have the same amount of people managing the system. I just have to focus on the workloads, and I just have to focus on the applications. And then our customers are saying, again, we're running out of the real estate, how can you give us a more dense box, right? We need the performance of a hybrid, but we need the capacity of an archive systems, again, we need to be able to do more with less almost. So we introduced the H5600 this week or today. And really just being able to give our customers what they need to really continue to drive their business forward. I always say, it's always about the workloads, and the applications. I'm inspired by what our customers are doing. They're just doing these innovative tools, and work and everything, because no longer they're being constrained from an IT perspective, right? The technology is now doing the heavy lifting, and now we're able to really utilize the data for what it's worth and getting the most out of it. Which I just love that, right? I think that's important to businesses. >> Put today's announcements in the perspective of the Workforce. We've talked a lot about Workforce the last couple of days, about really enabling businesses to do so much with this distributed Workforces, but in terms of Workforce optimization, the density that you just talked about, what are some of the immediate impacts that customers are going to realize that's going to, besides productivity improvements? >> Yeah, again, I've had direct conversations with customers, it was like an autonomous driving system, and they were saying, listen, again, I don't have a head count, nobody wants to give me more head count. I can't keep doing this. What the business wants to do is, they want to get to market fast. Because if we can get to the market fast, then we can drive that business faster, and that's what we need. How can you help me? And that's what I love about, not only the unstructured data conversation, but the Isilon conversations that we're having is like, how can you help my business? Well okay, we understand that there's struggles. Again, no data center, don't have the head count, they'll give us developers, right? They want to drive in these other markets, right? And then were saying, great, we'll continue to drive this one file system capability, but give you this enormous growth, and really continue to drive that, right? >> If they get revenue, they can get head count. So this I back to >> Correct. >> the cloud model of, let's get some value out there quickly, time to value. >> Yeah, and then the question is, where is the optimal head count that you need? Is it to do with somebody just continuing to rack and stack. Or is it someone that's really going to get the value out of that data, continue to push that, to test the systems. Again, they want to get to the market first. How can we enable that? How can we really help them to do that? That's our goal. >> So talk about customers and their receptiveness for AI. We hear a lot about it all the time, but really looking at, we talked about the volume of data, we could talk about that for days and days, but really enabling customers to harness the power of AI machine learning to extract the insights. Where are those conversations going with customers as it relates to Isilon and some of the things today, but just in general, where's there appetite with respect to being ready to harness the power of AI? >> We ask this question a lot about where are we in the AI landscape, right? And some customers are really focused on that, but they have a completely different model than some of the companies that have been our traditional companies that we've been kind of like focused on. So it's kind of a between the both, right? I think a lot of it, in my opinion, a lot of it has to do with the culture, right? It's a completely different way of thinking about a business, and it's a completely different way of focusing on, not only your data, but like the data management. You know with the joke about a data swamp, cleaning the data, having a business focus that's driven specifically from data is a culture change. And not a lot of people are willing to have that culture change. New companies can do that, 'cause that's how they developed the company, right? But when you see some of the companies that we've all been a part of for all of these years, that's not that easy. So, in the little baby steps, which is why I love telling those customer stories, so I'll be like, listen, this is possible, this is not just fake, we're not just fairies floating around us, right? This is truth capablities-- >> It's real transformation, that's the theme. The developers are a key part of this. This is something that we've seen. Developers using data as part of their application. Making that addressable, making it fast access is one, that's awesome. The other interesting dynamic that I want to get your thoughts on, because you have a security background is securing data and also governance or also driving use cases in applications that might not have been foreseen. We're one year into GDPR, and I don't think really anything's changed, but, I don't want to go on that rant, but now you have other regulatory things that's saying, hey, you know what, we might have to deal with the data differently. So how is Isilon enabling that? Is it just another use case? >> Yeah, I mean it is absolutely just in another use case that we're just going to have to focus on from the aspect of what's the implication. What are their customers looking at? When we talk specifically about GDPR, that's fairly new, right? We're just trying to figure this out, and trying to look at those different kind of aspects. A lot of that was also the right to know, and right to remove, and saying, what do you know about me and how do you kind of manage that? So a lot of that is really focused on a data management aspect and it's not just from Isilon, but it's, how do you manage it, right? So the ClarityNow capabilities that we have, right? This product that we were able to acquire, that really will give you that great insight into your data, so you can make those decisions, it says, alright, well this is all of our information on Erin Banks, this is her likes, dislikes, whatever that information has, right? We're able to really manage that a lot better, and the data management is the really next important step of the data collection, the data processing. It's understanding what you have, because it all comes in, but it doesn't add value until you really know what you have and what you don't have. Because even from an analytics perspective, you might have to supplement that data from some other resource. Maybe you need to change the application, and get additional data. This is all really driven across that same kind of aspect. This is the same conversation, and we'll just continue to fuel that and have that, and enable them to do that. That's why I say, we want to inspire our customers to be like, wow, I didn't realize that I could do that with tech, right? And then start enabling them to be innovative, and that's what we're still continuing to do. >> What's one of your favorite stories of, we had talked about your tenure within the Dell Technologies family when we first started, but looking at today in 2019, every company is a tech company or has to be. If you look back over the last 10, 12 years, what's some of your favorite stories of how this company Dell Technologies has enabled, and it's companies, a surprising customer to become a tech company? >> Yeah, and I think the number one thing that I personally love, right? That keeps me here. That brought me back, right? Not only was it just 2006 and staying, but said, I want to go back to that, is because what I really feel is, our experience that we have across every market, right? The geographies, the struggles that customers are having, and what we're able to learn from them, and really help our customers excel. It's not just us selling products, right? It's not just selling services, it's not just selling software, right? It's us trying to get out there and saying, this is how other customers are using it, this is how they've been successful, this is where they've downfall, lets help you, right? As we're trying to bring companies further along on their business journey, and we're saying, we've worked with customers to do this, we'll continue to work with you to do that, and we can do it across all seven of these companies end-to-end. It's a very impactful capabilities across applications, security, which is incredibly important, right? IT and Workforce and all these individual transformations, and that's what I think is a passion, and the best part of what we do. >> Well Erin, thank you so much for joining John and me on theCUBE this afternoon, and walking us through some of these key things, helping customers of any industry really excel, and unlock the capital in their data. We appreciate your time. >> I appreciate yours, thank you so much. >> Our pleasure. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live day two of our coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019 from Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell EMC World 2017, brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we are live in Las Vegas for Dell EMC World 2017. This is theCUBE's eighth year of coverage of what was once EMC World, now it's Dell EMC World 2017. I'm John Furrier at SiliconANGLE, and also my cohost from SiliconANGLE, Paul Gillin. Our next guest is Vikram Bhambri, who is the Vice President of Product Management at Dell EMC. Formally with Microsoft Azure, knows cloud, knows VIPRE, knows the management, knows storage up and down, the Emerging Technologies Group, formerly of EMC. Good to see you on theCUBE again. >> Good to see you guys again. >> Okay, so Elastic Compute, this is going to be the game changer. We're so excited about one of our favorite interviews was your colleague we had on earlier. Unstructured data, object store, is becoming super valuable. And it was once the throwaway, "Yeah, store, later late ". Now with absent data driven enterprises having access to data is the value proposition that they're all driving towards. >> Absolutely. >> Where are you guys with making that happen and bringing that data to life? >> So, when I think about object storage in general, people talk about it's the S3 protocol, or it's the object protocol versus the file protocol. I think the conversation is not about that. The conversation is about data of the universe is increasing and it's increasing tremendously. We're talking about 44 zettabytes of data by 2020. You need an easier way to consume, store, that data in a meaningful way, and not only just that but being able to derive meaningful insights out of that either when the data is coming in or when the data is stored on a periodic basis being able to drive value. So having access to the data at any point of time, anywhere, is the most important aspect of it. And with ECS we've been able to actually attack the market from both sides. Whether it's talking about moving data from higher cost storage arrays or higher performance tiers down to a more accessible, more cheap storage that is available geographically, that's one market. And then also you have tons of data that's available on the tape drive but that data is so difficult to access, so not available. And if you want to go put that tape back on a actual active system the turnaround time is so long. So being able to turn all of that storage into an active storage system that's accessible all the time is the real value proposition that we have to talk about. >> Well now help me understand this because we have all these different ways to make sense of unstructured data now. We have NoSQL databases, we have JSON, we have HDFS, and we've got object storage. Where does it fit into the hierarchy of making sense of unstructured data? >> The simplest way to think about it is we talk about a data ocean, with the amount of data that's growing. Having the capability to store data that is in a global content repository. That is accessible-- >> Meaning one massive repository. >> One massive repository. And not necessarily in one data center, right? It's spread across multiple data centers, it's accessible, available with a single, global namespace, regardless of whether you're trying to access data from location A or location B. But having that data be available through a single global namespace is the key value proposition that object storage brings to bear. The other part is the economics that we're able to provide consistently better than what the public clouds are able to offer. You're talking about anywhere between 30 to 48% cheaper TCO than what public clouds are able to offer, in your own data center with all the constraints that you want to like upload to it, whether it's regular environments. Whether you're talking about country specific clouds and such, that's where it fits well together. But, exposing that same data out whether through HDFS or a file is where ECS differentiated itself from other cloud platforms. Yes, you can go to a Hadoop cluster and do a separate data processing but then you're creating more copies of the same data that you have in your primary storage. So things like that essentially help position object as the global content repository where you can just dump and forget about, about the storage needs. >> Vikram I want to ask you about the elastic cloud storage, as you mentioned, ECS, it's been around for a couple of years. You just announced a ECS lesser cloud storage, dedicated cloud. Can you tell me what that is and more about that because some people think of elastic they think Amazon, "I'll just throw it in object storage in the cloud." What are you guys doing specifically 'cause you have this hybrid offering. >> Absolutely. >> What is this about, can you explain that? >> Yeah, so if you look at, there are two extremes, or two paradigms that people are attracted by. On one side you have public clouds which give you the ease of use, you just swipe your credit card and you're in business. You don't have to worry about the infrastructure, you don't have to worry about, like, "Where my data is going to be stored?" It's just there. And then on the other side you have regular environments or you just have environments where you cannot move to public clouds so customers end up put in ECS, or other object storage for that matter, though ECS is the best. >> John: Biased, but that's okay. >> Yeah, now we are starting to see customers they're saying, "Can I have the best of both worlds? "Can I have a situation where I like the ease of use "of the public cloud but I don't want to "be in a shared bathtub environment. "I don't want to be in a public cloud environment. "I like the privacy that you are able to provide me "with this ECS in my own data center "but I don't want to take on the infrastructure management." So for those customers we have launched ECS dedicated cloud service. And this is specifically targeted for scenarios where customers have maybe one data center, two data centers, but they want to use the full strength and the capabilities of ECS. So what we're telling them we will actually put their bought ECS in our data centers, ECS team will operate and manage that environment for the customer but they're the only dedicated customer on that cloud. So that means they have their own environment-- >> It's completely secure for their data. >> Vikram: Exactly. >> No multi tenant issues at all. >> No, and you can have either partial capabilities in our data center, or you can fully host in our data center. So you can do various permutation and combinations thus giving customers a lot of flexibility of starting with one point and moving to the other. Let's them start with a private cloud, they want to move to a hybrid version they can move that, or if they start from the hybrid and they want to go back to their own data centers they can do that as well. >> Let's change gears and talk about IoT. You guys had launched Project Nautilus, we also heard that from your boss earlier, two days ago. What is that about? Explain, specifically, what is Project Nautilus? >> So as I was mentioning earlier there is a whole universe of data that is now being generated by these IoT devices. Whether you're talking about connected cars, you're talking about wind sensors, you're talking about anything that collects a piece of data that needs to be not only stored but people want to do realtime analysis on that dataset. And today people end up using a combination of 10 different things. They're using Kafka, Speak, HDFS, Cassandra, DASH storage to build together a makeshift solution, that sort of works but doesn't really. Or you end up, like, if you're in the public cloud you'll end up using some implementation of Lambda Architecture. But the challenge there is you're storing same amount of data in a few different places, and not only that there is no consistent way of managing data, processing data that effectively. So what Project Nautilus is our attempt to essentially streamline all of that. Allow stream of data that's coming from these IoT devices to be processed realtime, or for batch, in the same solution. And then once you've done that processing you essentially push that data down to a tier, whether it's Isilon or ECS, depending on the use case that you are trying to do. So it simplifies the whole story on realtime analytics and you don't want to do it in a closed source way. What we've done is we've created this new paradigm, or new primitive called streaming storage, and we are open sourcing it, we are Project Pravega, which is in the Apache Foundation. We want the whole community, just like there is a common sense of awareness for object file we want to that same thing for streaming storage-- >> So you guys are active in open source. Explain quickly, many might not know that. Talk about that. >> So, yeah, as I mentioned Project Prevega is something we announced at Flink Forward Conference. It's a streaming storage layer which is completely open source in the Apache Foundation and we just open sourced it today. And giving customers the capability to contribute code to it, take their version, or they can do whatever they want to do, like build additional innovation on top. And the goal is to make streaming storage just like a common paradigm like everything else. And in addition we're partnering with another open source component. There is a company called data Artisans based out of Berlin, Germany, and they have a project called Flink, and we're working with them pretty closely to bring Nautilus to fruition. >> theCUBE was there by the way, we covered Flink Forward again, one of the-- >> Paul: True streaming engine. >> Very good, very big open source project. >> Yeah, we we're talking with Jeff Woodrow earlier about software defined storage, self driving storage as he calls it. >> Where does ECS fit in the self driving storage? Is this an important part of what you're doing right now or is it a different use? >> Yeah, our vision right from the beginning itself was when we built this next generation of object storage system it has to be software first. Not only software first where a customer can choose their commodity hardware to bring to bear or we an supply the commodity hardware but over time build intelligence in that layer of software so that you can pull data off smartly to other, from SSDs to more SATA based drives. Or you can bring in smarts around metadata search capabilities that we've introduced recently. Because you have now billions of billions of records that are being stored on ECS. You want ease of search of what specifically you're looking for, so we introduced metadata search capability. So making the storage system and all of the data services that were usually outside of the platform, making them be part of the code platform itself. >> Are you working with Elasticsearch? >> Yes, we are using Elasticsearch more to enable customers who want to get insights about ECS itself. And Nautilus, of course, is also going to integrate with Elasticsearch as well. >> Vikram let's wrap this up. Thank you for coming on theCUBE. Bottom line, what's the bottom line message, quickly, summarize the value proposition, why customers should be using ECS, what's the big aha moment, what's the proposition? >> I would say the value proposition is very simple. Sometimes it can be like, people talk about lots of complex terms, it's very simple. Sustainably, low cost storage, for storing a wide variety of content in a global content repository is the key value proposition. >> And used for application developers to tap into? The whole dev ops, data as code, infrastructure as code movement. >> Yeah, you start, what we have seen in the majority of the used cases customers start with one used case of archiving. And then they very quickly realize that there's, it's like a Swiss Army knife. You start with archiving then you move on to application development, more modern applications, or in the cloud native applications development. And now with IoT and Nautilus being able to leverage data from these IoT devices onto these-- >> As I said two days ago, I think this is a huge, important area for agile developers. Having access to data in less than a hundred milliseconds, from any place in the world, is going to be table steaks. >> ECS has to be, or in general, object storage, has to be part of every important conversation that is happening about digital IT transformation. >> It sounds like eventually most of the data's going to end up there. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, so I'll put ya on the spot. When are we going to be seeing data in less than a hundred milliseconds from any database anywhere in the fabric of a company for a developer to call a data ocean and give me data back from any database, from any transaction in less than a hundred milliseconds? Can we do that today? >> We can do that today, it's available today. The challenge is how quickly enterprises are adopting the technology. >> John: So they got to architect it? >> Yeah. >> They have to architect it. >> Paul: If it's all of Isilon. >> They can pull it, they can cloud pull it down from Isilon to ECS. >> True. >> Yeah. >> Speed, low latency, is the key to success. Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> And I love this new object store, love this tier two value proposition. It's so much more compelling for developers, certainly in cloud native. >> Vikram: Absolutely. >> Vikram, here on theCUBE, bringing you more action from Las Vegas. We'll be right back as day three coverage continues here at Dell EMC World 2017. I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillan, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live From Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas for Dell EMC World 2017. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Paul Gillin. And our next guest Manuvir Das, Senior Vice President of Product Management, Dell EMC, former Microsoft Asure, historic role at Microsoft, been at the EMC for a few years. Welcome to The Cube, good to see you. >> Thank you, it's nice to be here. >> So the last year we had a conversation. We were talking about some of the technology and the kind of direction it was going, so first question is from last year to this year, what's changed and what's the news? >> We've brought together two pretty well-known platforms that we did, Isilon for Scalar file and ECS for Scalar object. It one team that are now around called the Unstructured Data Storage Team. And we've done this really big because from the point of view of the customer, what we see is this confluence between file and object really in the space of unstructured storage, and we think we have some ideas of how to put that together in just the right solution for the customer. So that's why we brought these teams together and we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about this year. >> How are you positioning file versus object right now? It seems like object is the rage, but file is still going to be around for a long time. How do you position that? >> Yes, I think it will be. I think basically, if I may, it's not just two, but we see three pillars of unstructured storage. The first is file, which is really more towards compatibility with traditional workloads. A lot of the application ecosystem is comfortable programming against NFS or SMB, and that ecosystem is going to remain for a long time. For instance, in the space-like video surveillance. So that's where we see file. It's optimized more for performance rather than Scale, although you do get Scale. The next level was really object, which is more for your modern workloads, for your web and mobile sort of workloads. Optimized more for Scale rather than performance. And then, the third pillar that we see that we'd be working on now is really realtime data, or what you call streaming data, from things like IOT, where you're getting a firehose of information coming out and you got to store it very, very quickly. So we see these are three different pillars of unstructured storage. And really, what we've been working on in our Unstructured Data Storage Team is how to bring all of these three together in the right solution for the customer. >> So tell us about the group that you're in because this is kind of a new, not new industry, we're talking about unstructured data for many years, going on eight years, but it's becoming super important now as you have this horizontal data fabric development. We talked a little bit about it last year, but you can see a clear line of sight now with apps using data very dynamically. So you need under-the-hood storage, but now you need addressability of data. And so, there's a challenge of getting the right data from the right database to the right place on the app in less than a hundred milliseconds. I mean, that's like the nirvana. >> So I think there's a couple of things happening. Firstly, the advances in hardware have changed the game a fair bit, because you can take a software stack that was not optimized for latency to begin with, you can put it on all Flash hardware and you can reduce the roundtrip a lot, that's one thing. The other thing I see is that especially with the advancement of object >> For the stage of life in IT, you have research background, PhD in Computer Science, I mean, it's a pretty awesome time to be in computer science right now. There's a ton of opportunity that applies from that. Machine learning, all this goodness there. What's your vision of how the next 30 years are going to play out? Because Michael Dell said, "Hey, it's been 33 years," since he's started the company, the next 33 are going to be amazing, and I believe that to be true as well given the science opportunities. How do you look at this, from a personal level and also from a Dell EMC? >> I think what's really going to change is, up 'til now, a lot of things that have been done with computing have started with the thought of, "How much data can I really have?" And then, once I've decided how much data I can really have, what am I going to do with it? And I think sort of the innovation that's happened in storage that I'm a part of, what has really changed is it said, "You don't have to stop and think "about how much data you're going to have." You can just keep all of it. And so, what that means is I don't have to figure out upfront what I'm going to do with this data. I'm just going to bring it all in, it's going to be really cheap, the systems are really scalable that can hold it, and everything is sort of tagged in such a way that after the fact, five years from now, I can go do something with this data that I hadn't envisioned when I brought it in. And I think that just opens up a range of things that were hard to imagine. The other thing I think is, >> Programmatically meaning, from a software standpoint. Discoverability, >> That's right, I think as you said, machine learning is a big part of it. Because I think machine learning unlocks opportunities to mind the data that people hadn't really thought of before. And it comes back to the same thing that when I bring data in, whether it's from sensors or aircraft engines or what have you, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the data, so I have no idea which part of the data is important and which part of the data is less important. But when I can apply things like machine learning after the fact, I don't actually have to worry about that. I just bring it all in, and the algorithms themselves will figure out which part of the data is the useful part of the data. >> Your ScaleUp product line and ScaleOut product line, how are you positioning those two application-wise to your customers? >> So I think there is distinction between tier one storage and tier two storage. I think when you think about tier one storage, it's not just about the numbers, like latency and IOPS, but it's about the whole experience of tier one storage. Do I have, for my disaster recovery, do I have RPO-0, which means I can recover to the exact point in time I was at when I failed over data center. How does my replication work, what data services that I have? So I think our ScaleUp technologies are very well oriented towards the tier one kind of capabilities. And then our ScaleOut technologies are very well oriented towards sort of the ubiquitous tier two storage, which is much more deployable at Scale. It's pretty good performance in two, actually, but not with that complete set of capabilities you think about with tier one in terms of RPO-0s, synchronist replication, those kinds of things. So I think there's a very natural sort of mace between the two. And really, I think from a storage vision, what we see is the tier two storage is so scalable and so cheap, that all of your bools of tier one storage on the top tier down automatically into the tier two storage. And what that means is for our customers, if you think about how much tier one storage they have to provision today, they should be able to provision less of that, because they should be able to tier more of that down to the tier two storage, which is now capable enough to hold the rest of the data. >> And be available. >> And be available, >> Okay so, customers want to do this, a no brainer. So when we hear Amazon talk about this all the time, Jeff Bezos was just talking about just the other day a new chassis, they've got the recognition software so you see facial recognition, a lot of great stuff happening all over the Cloud world with this kind of modeling, with the power of computes that's available. What are the customers do now? Because now they get it, it's a no brainer obviously. Now they've got to change how they did IT 30 years to be agile for tomorrow. What's the playbook? >> So what we're seeing is, the step one that we're seeing more and more today, and have seen really for the last couple of years with Isilon and with DCS, is what I would call Consolidation of the Tier Two. So where we had 12 different clustered silos of storage for the different use cases, let's buy into this model that I can just build one large storage cluster, and it can handle the 12 different use cases at the same time. And that's what we've been proving out for the last few years. I think customers have really, enterprise customers are really getting there. And now, what we're beginning to see this year is the next phase, whether it's the industrial internet with the automotives, et cetera, the more IOT style use cases. In fact, on Wednesday, we'll be talking about a new thing we've got called Project Nautilus, which is the third leg of our stool with the streaming storage that is built on top of Isilon and ECS. And we're now at the point where are first customers are beginning to work with that, where they're saying, "From my sensors, "in the automobiles, on the cameras, "I'm going to bring in this firehouse of data, "I'm going to store it all with you, "but later on, I'm going to do analytics on it. "As it's coming in, I'm going to do "some real-time analytics on it, "and then after the fact, I'm going to do "the more batch style." >> I know Paul Scott wants to jump in, but I want you to just back up because I missed the three pillars. >> The three pillars were file, for which we have Isilon, object for your modern applications and web workloads, for which we have ECS, and then streaming storage for IOT. >> Which is Nautilus? >> Which is Project Nautilus, >> Okay, got it. >> The way I put it to people is traditional storage systems, ScaleUp or ScaleOut, file or object, they need resilience. So when you write the data, you have to write and think at the same time, because you have to record all kinds of information about it, you have to take locks, et cetera. For IOT, you need a storage system that writes now, and thinks later, so that you can just suck it all in. >> It sounds like an operating system. You've got a storage that's turning into like LUNs, provisioning, hardware. It's essentially intelligence software that has to compile, runtime, assembly, all this stuff's going on. >> And there's all these fancy names like LAN Architecture and all that kind of stuff. And what that's all saying is, "I bring the data in "and as it's coming in, "there's some things I already want to do with it, "I do that analytics in real-time. "There's other things when I go tag it, "who was in the photo, where was it, "and then the rest of it, I'm going to do later." And who knows what and when, and that's a beautiful thing. >> You're way along the thinking curve on this obviously, but where are your customers? I mean, you're talking about a pretty radically, different approach to processing and storing data even in realtime. Machine learning, meta tagging, there's a lot for them to absorb. >> And I think that part, it's a vertical driven, use-case driven thing. So there's some industries where we see a lot of uptake on that. Automotive is a great example. >> Financial services, >> Financial services, fraud detection, those kinds of things. And there's other verticals where it's not time for that yet. Like I said, healthcare is a great example. So in those verticals, we see more of just the storage consolidation, let me build one pool of tier two storage, if you will, and consolidate my 12 use cases sort of what we refer to as the Data Lake in our words, but I think it's specific verticals. And that's fine, if you look at even the traditional unstructured storage, I think it really started with certain verticals like media and entertainment, life sciences, and that's sort of where it kicked up from. And I think for the streaming storage, it's these verticals that are more oriented towards IOT, your automotive, your fraud detection, those kinds of things where it's really kicking off, and then it'll sort of broaden from there. >> How is this playing into the Dell server strategy? >> It's really a fantastic thing, I don't want to say so much for us as for our customer, because I've talked to a number of people in these verticals where the customer wants a complete solution for IOT. And what that means is number one: on the edge, do I have the right equipment with the right horsepower and the right software on the edge to bring in all the data from the edge and do the part of the processing that needs to be done right there on the edge of realtime, and then it has to be backed by stuff in the backing environment that can process massive amounts of data. And with Dell, we have the opportunity for the first time that we didn't have with the EMC alone to do the complete solution on both ends of it, both the equipment on the edge as well as the backing IT, so I think it's a great opportunity. >> You bring up so many awesome conversations because it's boring storage, now storage is not boring anymore because it's fundamental to the heartbeat of a company. >> Exactly. >> So here's a question for you, kind of like thinking out loud and riffing with you. So some debate, like, "Listen, I want to find "the needle in the haystacks, "but the haystacks are getting bigger," so there's a problem with that. I got to do more design and more gig digging, if you will. And the second point is customers are saying, to at least to us on The Cube and privately is, "I got a data lake that's turning "into a data swamp, "so help me not have swamps of data, "and I want more needles, "but the stack's getting bigger." What's your advice to those CXOs? Could be a CDO, chief data officer, a CS CISCO, these are the fundamental questions. >> I would say this, whatever technology you're evaluating, whether it's an on-premise technology or a hosted technology from a vendor like us, or it's a service out there in the Public Cloud, if you will, ask yourself two questions. One is, "If I size out what I need right now, "and I multiply it by 10 or 100, "what is it going to cost? "And is it really going to work the same way, "is it going to scale the same way?" Look at the algorithmics inside the product, not the Power Point and say, "The way "they've designed this thing, "when I put 100 times the data "on 100 times the number of servers "on this storage system, "are things actually going to work the same way or not?" >> So it's a scale question, kind of what are the magnitude thinking you need to kind of go out and size it up a bit. >> Because I see right now, the landscape is full of new technologies for storage, and a lot of them sound great and look great on the PowerPoint, and you go do a POC with four nodes or eight nodes, and you put Flash in there and it works really well. But the thing is, when you have 200 nodes of that, when you've got a 30 petabyte cluster and you've got to fail it over because your data center went down, how does that go? >> Well, it's also who's going to run it, too. You want less obstacles, not more, and you don't them to be huge, expensive developers. >> TierPoint, that's the other thing. We really don't talk to our customers in terms of storage acquisition costs anymore, we talk in terms TCO, total cost of ownership. You look at power, you look at cooling. >> That killed the Duke, basically, it was so hard to run and total cost of of ownership. Michael Dell was just on, I was interviewing Michael and I asked him like, "Where's the Cloud strategy?" I was just busting his chops a little bit, 'cause I know he's messaging, trying to get him off his messaging. But he made an interesting comment and metaphor. He goes, "Well John, I remember the days "during the internet days, where's you internet strategy?" Look where that happened, the bubble popped. But ultimately, everything played out as according to plan. There's pet food online, now we've got food delivery, DoorDash, all this stuff's happening. So he kind of was using it to compare to the Cloud today. There's a lot of hope and promise, where's your Cloud strategy? But yet, his point was it's going to be everywhere. >> Yeah, and I would say this, I think people sometimes confuse Cloud with Public Cloud. And I think what happened is, having that issue myself, I would say that Public Cloud exposed a certain model that had some benefits for the customer base that were new. That is, I can use as a service, I don't worry about operationalizing things, I can pay as I go, so I get that, it's elastic. But it also came with a lot of drawbacks. I don't have the kind of control that I would like to have. A normal thing that any person who takes a dependency on infrastructure has is, "Today's my Superbowl Sunday. "Don't touch my environment today." Now you go to a Public Cloud and you use a service that is used by thousands of other customers, so which day is Superbowl Sunday? Every day is Superbowl Sunday for somebody. >> It was a metaphor, Public cloud was a metaphor for virtualization that would effect the entire environment. >> And so, I think the journey we're all in, all the vendors, the Public Cloud suppliers, everybody is, "What are the right set of models "that are going to cover the space for all our customers?" There's not going to be one. There's several. I think the dedicated private Cloud models are certainly very appealing in a number of ways if you do the economics right. And I think that's the journey we're all on sort of together. >> I tweeted a little bit of the jewels out there this morning. True, Private cloud is going to be a $265 billion dollar market, but they were the first ones to actually size that, let's say true private public means essentially hybrid, but on-prem with a data center. That's huge numbers, it's not like rounding errors. >> We believe that, too. And that's why one of the neatest things we've announced this year with ECS object storage is something called ECS Dedicated Cloud, which is basically saying, "You can take the object storage "from us, but it's going to run in our data centers." We operate it, it's actually the developers who wrote the code from my team who are actually operating it, and you can do a variety of hybrid things. You can keep some of it on-prem, some of it off-prem, you can keep all of it off-prem. But regardless, it's your stuff. You can hug it, it's dedicated to you. You're not sharing the cluster with anybody else. You get to decided when you update your version, when you take a maintenance window or what have you. So, we're all searching for that sweet spot, if you will. >> I want to ask you about something, some of the different containers. The hottest thing right now in infrastructure, lack of persistent storage has been a real problem for containers. Is that a problem that's yours to solve or is it Docker's to solve? >> No, I think it is ours to solve with them. So, I'll say a couple of things. Firstly, our modern products, ECS and object storage as well as ScaleIO, our block ScaleOut storage, these are built with containers. So for instance, if you take ECS today, every ECS appliance that we ship, if you look inside very server, it's running Linux with Docker. And all the ECS code is running on Docker containers. That's just how it works. So A: we believe in containers, and two: I think we have been doing the work to provide that persistence ecosystem for containers using our storage. So we have a great team at Dell EMC called EMC Code. And these are people, they do a lot of this integration stuff, they work very closely with Docker and a number of the other frameworks to really plug our storage in. And I think it's a very open ecosystem. There are APIs there now, so you can plug anybody's storage in. And I think that's really if you compare VM-based infrastructures with container-based infrastructures. That's really the gap, because when you operationalize the stuff, you need things like that. You need persistent storage, you need snapshots, you need a VR-storage, you need those kinds of things, but I think that'll all come. >> Well, we're looking to continuing the conversation, I know time's tight. We'd like to follow up with you after the show, maybe bring you into our studio via Skype. You're in a hot area, you got the storage, you got the software, you got some Cloud action going on. Thank you very much for coming on The Cube, appreciate it. >> My pleasure for being here, thank you for having me. >> This is TheCube, live coverage here at Dell EMC World 2017. And I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillin, we'll be right back. Stay with us. (bright tech tones)