>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston. It's the cube covering IBM thing brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman and we're here with the cubes coverage of IBM. Thank you. 2020. The global experience reaching all of the participants of the event where they are. I'm happy to welcome back one of our cube alumni, Mike Farris, who is the vice president of corporate development and strategy at red hat. Mike, it's great to see you. Likewise too. Happy to be here. All right, so what Mike, uh, you know, lots of things to talk about a few weeks back. Uh, of course the management changes happened. Uh, we're fresh off of a red hat summit. Uh, I, I had a pleasure really talking to a lot of your peers, uh, your new boss, uh, and uh, you know, many of the customers. Uh, but for our, I think audience, right? Bring us up to speed. Uh, you know, back in 2019, it, uh, the, the largest software acquisition ever, uh, completed with IBM buying red hat and there've been some management changes, uh, some people, uh, switching roles. >>And, and you've got a new title, so, uh, bring her audience speed. Sure. Absolutely. So it's, it's been an exciting several, several months as we've gone through this. Of course. Um, we knew things were going to happen, things were announced clearly with Jenny's retirement quite a while ago. Um, but certainly, you know, the Arvin announcement and then as well as having both Jim Whitehurst become president. Okay. Oh, Cormier becoming CEO of red hat. You know, it's been an exciting several months trying to try to go through this and understand, you know, what would change and frankly, what would not change. Um, I'll say from red hats perspective, having been with red hat for coming up, you're on 20 years, uh, not a lot is really changed. We're still focused on our mission of being the owner leading enterprise open source software company, uh, focusing on both taking our, our platforms, both red hat enterprise Linux and now OpenShift a Ford in the market, partnering around middleware components, hardening around our management, uh, as well as our storage elements. >>So, you know, our mission hasn't changed and that's kind of one of the key aspects of this. I'll say that certainly, you know, with Arvind now as CEO of IBM and Jim Whitehurst is president of IBM along with Oh for me or being, you know, CEO of red hat and we've got a really strong leadership group in place at IBM that understands what red hat is, what we mean to the customer and just as importantly what we mean to the open source community. Uh, and, and that type of action and, and, and drive is certainly something that, that we think, you know, that leadership in place will help to ensure that the value we've delivered to customers, frankly from day one back when we launched red hat enterprise Linux or red hat advanced server, frankly, uh, it's something that, that we'll be able to continue to do and drive in the community and with the customers as we move forward. >>Yeah. Mike, it's interesting when we look out, uh, on the, the ecosystems and happening out there, we understand for customers sometimes it might be challenging to say, Hey, I listened to 10 different vendors and they all say the same words. I've got multi hybrid cloud, digital modernization, things like that. Well, with our hat as a, as an analyst firm, we kind of say, okay, everybody does things a little bit different. Do you know if you look at the big cloud players, they are all playing different games. When we looked at the IBM strategy pre acquisition of red hat and red hat, they line up pretty well, you know, red hat. Yeah, very much. At summit it was open hybrid cloud. Uh, when I look at IBM, maybe a little bit more talk of multicloud than hybrid. Well, but hybrid is long bend a piece of it. >>So yeah. Okay. Give us a little bit of the inside, you know, with your strategy hat on it. How much had it been okay. Strong alignment, obviously IBM and red hat decades. Um, but you know, there are some places where, uh, you need to make sure that people understand that, you know, red sat still please markers with all the clouds. And of course IBM has services that span many places, but they also have, you know, products and services that are, uh, it was particular to IBM thing. Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's important to note, and this is well established that, you know, one of the core, uh, justifications and reasons for the acquisition was really around red hats. A physician, not just an open source, but in the hybrid cloud. Um, we've been talking about that for sure many years in fact, before most of the vendor's name has predicted up. >>Um, uh, but just as importantly, I think if you look back at Marvin Krishna's announcements on frankly the day that he was named CEO, uh, you know, he starts talking about things like IBM's focus being hybrid. Yeah. AI. And how did those things come together and who were the participants in that value being delivered? Certainly from red hat's perspective is, as we've said, we've been talking about hybrid and delivering on hybrid for many years now. Now that's being, being pushed as part of the IBM overall message. Um, and so certainly being able to leverage that value and extend it throughout the ecosystem that IBM brings throughout the software that IBM has and their services. You know, certainly we think we've got a, a good opportunity to really take that message broader in the market. Um, you know, with again, with, with both Paul and Jim, president and CEO of red hat working together and we'll be able to take that and leverage that capability throughout all of IBM generally. >>Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the AI piece because one of the things that really struck me, thumb it often we're talking about plot worms and we're talking about infrastructure. And while that is my background, we understand that the reason infrastructure exists is because my Apple, that application and one of the most important piece of applications or data. So, you know, red hat of course has a strong history with hi guys, uh, to applications and data. You, you've got an operating system as you know, one of the core pieces of what you're doing. And when I think about IBM and its strengths, well the first thing I probably think of is services. But the second thing I think of was all of the businesses productivity, uh, the databases, you know, all these applications that IBM has. I read it over the years, uh, wondering if we can just click down one notch and you talk about, uh, you know, hybrid cloud and AI and everything. >>How are IBM and red hat helping customers build all of those new applications go through those transformations, uh, to really be modern enterprises? Yeah, so certainly if you look at red hat's history where we focused very much on building the platforms and again, whether that was red hat, enterprise, Linux open shift or J boss, you know, our focus has been how can we make a standardized platform, it will work across the industry regardless of use case or industry verdict. IBM, you know, has both platforms as well as a lot of investment in capabilities in the higher level value services as well as the specializations. And use of these applications and platforms for specific vertical industries. And a lot of what they've been able to bring to the table with your investments in Watson and AI as well as a lot of their data services has certainly start to come to fruition. >>And when we start taking these two in combination and applying, for example, a focus on developers, developer tools, being able to bring a value to not just uh, the operations folks, but also the developer side and really put a lot of the AI capabilities cross that we're starting to see, you know, accelerated value, accelerated use. And then if you layer that on top of a hybrid approach, you know, we've got a very strong message that crosses everything from, you know, existing applications to net new applications before developing from their DevOps cycle all the way through their operation cycle at the bottom end where they're, they're actually trying to do boy cross multiple platforms, multiple infrastructures, and keep everything consistently managed, secured and operated. And that's, that's really the overall message that we're seeing as we talk about this together with IBM. All right. So, Mike, you touched on some of the products that that red hat, uh, offers in the portfolio. >>Uh, it was, it was a real focus at summit, not really to talk about the announcements, you know, a week before a summit two came out. Yeah. Uh, OpenShift bar dog four wasn't a big w blob. Uh, you know, give us the update on really the red hat portfolio and you know, where are those points? You know, IBM is helping red hat scale. Yeah. So certainly you've touched on some of the big ones, right? Well, OpenShift itself with the four dot. Four release brings a lot of new capabilities, uh, that are being brought forward to those customers. I have a better management, better capabilities and what they can do from monitoring service, et cetera. Um, but certainly also things like what we're doing with OpenShift virtualization, which was another announcement. There were, we're actually doing, you know, bringing a game, changing capability to the market, uh, and enabling customers that have both existing, uh, virtual virtualized environments and also new or, or migrated or transformed a container, native environments and running those on the same platform. >>With the same management infrastructure, we see that as huge to be able to simplify the management capabilities, understand cost and be able to control those environments in a much more consistent way. Uh, secondly, uh, you know, one of the big things that's been happening is really around advanced container management. What we're calling an ACM. Uh, this is, this is a good example of how red hat and IBM have worked together, uh, to bring existing IBM capabilities and what they had called a multi cluster management or MCM and bring those not just into red hat yes. Part of our platforms, but also have red hat take the step of open sourcing that and making it part of the industry standard through open source community. So being able to take that type of value that IBM had matured, take it through red hat into the open source community, but simultaneously deliver it to our customers. >>Yeah. Open shift and make it part of the platform. It's something we really see as, as a huge value add. Mmm. We're also doing a lot more with hyperscalers, especially in the space of OpenShift managed services. Uh, you saw some of those last week and I would encourage everyone to go out and, and look at the Paul Cormier and Scott Guthrie announcements that we did. There was a keynote, a video that you can go review. Uh, but, but certainly, uh, certainly the focus on how do we work with these hyperscalers inclusive of IBM, uh, to make open shift and much more fluid deployment option, have it more, more service oriented, a both on premise and off premise so the customers can actually, uh, work together better in it. Yeah. A red hat I think has always done a really good job of highlighting those partnerships. It's way easy on the outside to talk about the competitive nature of the industry. >>And I remember a few years ago, a red hat made, you know, a strong partnership with AWS. You mentioned, you know, Scott Guthrie from Microsoft. Well, okay. Not Satya Nadella. Okay. Love it last year, but Microsoft long partner. Oh, okay. Of course, with IBM back to the earliest days, uh, and with red hat or, uh, you know, in the much more recent days, uh, there was those partnerships. So critically important. ACM definitely an area, uh, we want to watch it. It was really question we had had, if you look at last year, Microsoft announced Azure, uh, there are lots of solutions announced as to how am I going to manage in this multicloud world. Um, because it's not, my piece is everywhere. It's now I need to manage a lot of things that are out of my control from different vendors and hopefully we learned a lot of the lessons from the multi-vendor era that will be fixed in the multi cloud era. >>Oh, absolutely. And you know, arc was part of our discussion with Scott Guthrie last week or Paul's discussion and you'll see a demo of that. But I would also expect that you'll see more things coming from us markers as well. Right. You know, this is about building a platform, a hybrid platform that works in a multicloud world and being able to describe that in a very consistent way. Manage it. You were at entitled it in a very consistent way of across all the vendors, inclusive of both self and managed services, only one option. And so we're very focused on doing that. Um, IBM, certainly AXA assisting in that, helping grow it. But overall this focus is really about red has perspective about making that hybrid, right? the leading hybrid platform, the leading Coobernetti's. Okay. uh, in the industry. And that's, that's really where starting from with OpenShift. >>All right. So, so Mike, we started out the discussion talking about some of the changes and you know, where red hat stays, red hat and where the company is working together. Obviously the leadership changes. Oh, we're a big piece. Uh, congratulations you, you got, you know, a new role. I've seen quite a few people, uh, with some new titles. Uh, you know, w which is always nice to see. Uh, the, the people that have been working for a long time. The other area where seems from the outside there coordinated effort is around the covert response. So, you know, I've seen the, the public letters from, from Arvin Krishna of course. red hat and Paul Cormier's letter. Well, he is there. Uh, IBM was one of the first companies that we had heard from, uh, that said, Hey, you know, we're not going to RSA conference this year. >>We're moving digital, uh, with the events. So no real focus on them boys. And then of course boarding customers. Yeah. How does that covert response happen? And am I right from the outside that it looks like there, there is a bit of United right attack, this global pandemic response. It is a, you know, I think there's two levels to this. Certainly between red hat and IBM were well coordinated. Um, within, within red hat we have, uh, we have teams that are specifically dedicated to making sure, yeah, our associates and more importantly, uh, our customers and the overall communities are well-served through this. As you said earlier in the interview, uh, certainly we hold back on any significant product announcements at summit, including with some of our partners merely because we wanted to maintain this focus on how can we help everyone through this very unfortunate experience. >>Um, and so, you know, as obviously a lot of us, all of us are sitting at home now globally. Uh, the focus is very much how do we stay connected or we keep the business flowing as much as possible through this and, and, and keep people safe and secure in their environments and make sure that we serve both the customers and the associates. Yes. Awesome away. So there's a lot of sensitivity and we want to make sure that, you know, the industry and the overall world knows, uh, that we're very focused on keeping people healthy and moving forward as we, as we work through this together as a world. Yeah. Well, Mike Ferris, thank you so much for the update. It's been been a pleasure catching up. Great. Thanks dude. Appreciate it. All right. Stay tuned for lots more coverage from IBM. Think 20, 20. The global digital experience. Okay. To a minimum. And thank you. We're watching. Thank you.

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas for AWS re:Invent 2018, all the action is happening for Amazon Web Services. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave six years covering Amazon, great opportunity, a lot of news, Red Hat is a big part of it, Mike Ferris is here. Vice President, Technical Business Development for Red Hat, welcome back, good to see you. >> Likewise. >> A lot's going with you guys since our Red Hat Summit days in San Francisco just a few months ago. >> Yeah. >> Big news hit. >> Yeah. >> The bomb around the world, the rock that hit the ground really hard, shook everyone up, surprised everyone including me, I'm like "Wow, IBM and Red Hat". What an interesting relationship, obviously the history with IBM has been good. Talk about the announcement with IBM because this is huge. Of course, big numbers, but also impact wise pretty big. >> Yeah, it's exciting times right? And if you kind of look at, you know, from the perspective of Red Hat in this, this will allow us to really scale and accelerate what we've already been doing for the past, you know, since really the 1994 era when Red Hat was founded and, you know, it kind of validates a lot of what we've put into open source and enterprise customers since then. You know, we really see a couple of key outtakes from this, one of which is, certainly it's going to give us the resources to be able to really grow with the scale that we need to. It's also going to allow us to invest more in open source in emerging areas, bring the value of scale and certainly choice and flexibility to more customers, and then ultimately kind of the global advantage of hybrid and multi cloud, we'll be able to reach more partners and customers everywhere, and it puts us several years ahead of where we have been and where we would have been frankly, and ultimately our intent is that with IBM we'll become the leading hybrid and multi cloud provider overall. >> Yeah, Jimmy and Jim Whitehurst kind of ruined our Sunday, we were sitting down to watch football and he's like got the announcement. And then Jimmy kept saying "It's not backend loaded, it's not backend loaded" and then you start to realize, wow, IBM has an enormous business of managing applications that need to be modernized and OpenShift is obviously a great place to do that so, it's got to be super exciting for you guys to have that giant new opportunity to go after as well as global scale that you didn't have before. >> And, you know, this extends the stuff that we did, announced in May at Red Hat Summit with IBM where we really focused on how do we take WebSphere DB2MQ, running on IBM cloud private, running on OpenShift, and make that the hybrid choice. And so it's a natural extension of what we've already been doing and it gives us a lot more resources than we would have otherwise. >> This is good, coming into the next segment I want to chat about is RHEL, and what people might not understand from the announcment is the synergy you guys have with IBM because, being a student of Red Hat, being just in the industry when you guys were rebels, open source, second tier citizen, and the enterprise, the adoption then became tier one service. I mean you guys have, level of service, 17 years or something, huge numbers, but remember where it all started. And then you became a tier one supplier to almost all the enterprises, so you're actually a product company as well as a huge open source player. That's powerful and unique. >> Absolutely, even if you look at kind of what Amazon is doing this week and have been doing over the years, they're a huge value ad provider of open source technology as well, and one of the statements that we've always made is, the public cloud would not exist if not for Linux and open source, and so everything has been based upon that. There's one provider that doesn't use Linux as the base of their platform but certainly as we've taken the in roads into the enterprise, you know, I was there when it started with just turning Red Hat Enterprise Linux on and then bringing it from the edge of network into the data center and talking about major providers like Oracle, HP, Del, IBM as part of that. Now, we're looking at "Is it a de facto standard?", and everyone including Amazon and all of it's competitors are really invested heavily in the open source world. >> And so, let's talk about the impact to the products, okay so one of the things that has come up, at least on my Twitter feed and the conversations is, okay, it's going to take some time to close the deal, you're still Red Hat, you're still doing your things, what's the impact to the customers and to the ecosystem in your mind? How are you guys talking about that right now? Obviously, it's more of the same, keep the Red Hat same, unique, independent, what new thing is going to come out of it? >> So, to be clear, the deal has not closed, right, so there's not a lot we're going to say otherwise. >> A year away, you got a lot of work to do. >> Our focus is what it always has been. Let's build the best enterprise products using the open source development model and make those available across all public and hybrid cloud environments. >> At a certain level, that's enterprise, multi-year, old Red Hat, same Red Hat model, alright. >> But let me follow up on that, because you're a believer in multi cloud, we're a believer in, whatever you call it, multiple clouds, customers are going to use multiple clouds. We believe that, you believe that, it seems like Amazon has a slightly different perspective on that, >> Cause they're one cloud. >> in that this greater value, right cause they're one cloud, there's greater value, but it seems like the reality when you talk to customers is, we're not just one company, we've got different divisions, and eventually we've got to bring those together in some kind of extraction layer. That's what you guys want to be, right? So, your perspectives on multi cloud? >> Absolutely, so, each individual department, each project, each developer, in all of these major enterprises, you know, has a different vantage, and yes, there are corporate standards, golden masters of RHEL that get produced, everybody's supposed to be using, but you know, the practicalities of how you develop software, especially in the age of dev ops and containers and moving forward is actually, you have to have the choice necessary to meet your specific needs, and while we will absolutely do everything we can to make sure that things are consistent, I mean, we started this with RHEL consistency, on and off premise, when we did the original Amazon relationship. The point is, you need to be able to give people the flexibility and choice that they desire, regardless of what area of the company that they're in, and that's going to be the focus, regardless of whether it's Microsoft, Amazon, Google, IBM clouds, international clouds with Alibaba, it's all the same to us and we have to make sure it's there. >> What's always great about the cloud shows, especially this one, it's one of my favorites, because it really is dev ops deep in the mindset culture. As you see AI and machine learning start to get powered by all these great resources, computer, et cetera, the developer is going crazy, there's going to be another renaissance in software development, and then you got things like Kubernetes and containers now mainstream. Kubernetes almost, I say, de facto standard. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely happened, you guys had a big part of making that happen. People are now agreeing on things, so the formation's coming together pretty quickly, you're seeing the growth, we're hearing terms like "co-creation", "co-opetition", those are signals for a large rising tide, your thoughts? >> So, it's interesting, we were an early investor in Kubernetes, we actually launched OpenShift prior to Kubernetes, and then we adopted it and made a shift of our platform before it was too late. We did the same thing with hypervisors when we moved from Zen to KBM, but this overall approach is, once we see the energy happening both in the community and the early customers, then you see the partners start to come on board, it becomes the de facto standard, it's really crucial for us as an open source company to make sure we follow those trends, and then we help mature them across the business ecosystem, and that's something we've loved being able to engage with. I mean, Google certainly instigated the Kubernetes movement, but then it starts to propagate, just like on the open stack side, it came out of Rackspace and Nasa and then moved on to different areas and so, you know, our focus is, how do we continue that choice and that evolution overall? >> How would you talk about the impact of Kubernetes if someone says "Hey Mike, what's the real impact, what is it going to accomplish at the end of the day?" What's your view of that? >> It will have the same impact that the Linux current standardization has had, you know, but in this case for micro services and application packaging and being able to do dev ops much more efficiently across heterogeneous platforms. >> Does it make it easier or less painful or does it go away? Is it automated under the covers? I mean, this is a big, awesome opportunity. >> So the orchestration capabilities of Kubernetes combined with all the other tools that surround key container platforms like OpenShift, really give that developer the full life cycle environment to be able to take something from concept through deployment, and onto the maintenance phases, and you know, what we end up doing is we look at, okay the technologies are there, what value ads to we have around that to make sure that a customer and a developer cn actually maintain this thing long term and keep their enterprise applications up? >> So, security for example. >> Security is a great example, right? How do we make sure that every container that gets deployed on Kubernetes platforms or by Kubernetes platforms, that every container that's deployed which, keep in mind, is an operating system, it has an operating system in the container itself, how is that kept up to date? How do you make sure that when the next security errata is released, from us or a different vendor possibly, how do you make sure that that container is secure? And, you know, we've done a lot in our registry as well as our catalog to make sure that all of our partners and customers can see their containers, know what grade they have in a security context, and be able to grow that. That's one of the core things that we see adding into this Kubernetes value and authorization level. >> It's not a trivial technical problem either. >> No. >> Sometimes micro services aren't so micro. >> It's been part of what we've for RHEL from the start, it's been how do we bring that enterprise value into technology that is maturing out of the open source community and make that available to customers? >> Yeah, one of the key things you guys, first of all, OpenShift has been phenomenal, you guys did a great job with that, been watching that grow, but I think a real seminal moment was the CoreOS acquisition. >> Sure. >> That was a real turbo boost for you guys, great acquisition, fits in with the culture, and then Kubernetes just lifted from that, that was the point but, at the timing of all this, Kubernetes gets mainstream lift, people recognize that the standardization it is a good thing, and then, boom, developers are getting engaged. >> Yeah, and if you see what the CoreOS environment has brought us from over their updates for our platforms, to being able to talk about a registry in the environment. Being able to say that, is kind of additive to this overall messaging, it really rounds out the offering for us, and allows us to participate even more deeply in the communities as well. >> Well, we're looking forward to keeping you covered, we love Kubernetes, we've got a special report called "Kubernetes Special Report" on siliconangle.com, it's called "The Rise Of Kubernetes", it's a dedicated set of content, we're publishing a lot on Kubernetes. Final question I want to get to you because I think it's super important, what's the relationship you have with AWS? And take some time to explain the partnership, how many years, what you guys are doing together, I know you're actively involved, so take a minute. >> It is somewhat blurry, it's been a long time, so 2007 era is when we started in depth with them, and I can remember the early days, actually in the development of S3, prior to EC2, being able to say alright, what is this thing and how does Red Hat participate in this? And I think, yesterday Terry Wiese even mentioned that we were one of the first partners to actually engage in the consumption model and, you know, claiming partial credit for out 34 billion dollar valuation that we just got announced. But, you know, overall the relationship really spawned out of that, how do we help build a cloud and how do we help offer our products to our customers in a more flexible way? And so that snowballed over the years from just early adopters being able to play with it to now where you see it's many many millions of dollars that are being generated in customers and they think, in the hundreds of millions of hours of our products being consumed, at least within a month if not shorter timeframes, every time period we have. >> You know that's an unsung benefit that people might not know about with Red Hat is that, you guys are in early markets because, one, everyone uses Linux pretty much these days for anything core, meaningful. And you listen to community, and so you guys are always involved in big moving things, cloud, Amazon, 2007, it was command line back then. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't even, I think RightScale just came online that year, so you remember. You guys are always in all these markets so it's a good indicator, you guys are a bellwether, I think it's a good beacon to look at. >> And we do this, certainly on the container space, and the middleware space, and the storage space, you know, we replicate this model and, including in management, about how do we actually invest in the right places where we see the industry and communities going so we can actually help those? >> And you're very partner friendly, you bring a lot to the table, I love the open source ethos, I think that's the future. The future of that ethos of contributing to get value downstream is going to be a business practice, not just software, so you guys are a big part of the industry on that and I want to give you guys props for that. Okay, more Cube coverage here in Las Vegas, AWS Reinvent, after this short break, more live coverage, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, we'll be right back. (electronic music)

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco with the cube cube coverage of red hat summit 2018 and Moscone West in San Francisco I'm John for a co-host of the Q with my co-host this week analyst John Troyer who's the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Mike Farris is the vice president of business development at Red Hat and its architecture business architecture sitting the table doing all the deals welcome back to the cube great to see you great to be here happy to come on so red hat has always played the long game in its business you got a very community focused us you got a lot of data in front of you you got a lot of customers but now the industry deals are forming IBM deal you guys announced here and Microsoft two notables really kind of are a telltale sign of what's to come what does it mean you had two big enterprise players getting behind openshift and Red Hat what's the name so you know it means coming of age of both containers and industry standards around this and so similar to what we did with Red Hat Enterprise Linux it what started at the edge of network computing and gradually through relationship with IBM Dell HP became the standard hardware enabler applications then came on board with partners like Oracle and others going through sa P and the like now we're seeing the same thing happen in the container space where now that kubernetes has been established as the orchestration standard in the industry Red Hat has made the bet adopted on that and now starting to see the fruition of people standardizing around that the major players the cloud providers from IBM Microsoft and and applications are sitting on top of that are starting to see this as the platform that they wanted to play on and just to kind of point out just because yeah you mentioned kubernetes you guys weren't johnny-come-lately on kubernetes either you guys made the investment years ago including tsakuba you saw containers so you're it wasn't like whoo it's like yesterday it developed nicely for you I mean our open shift was actually launched in 2011 and then in 2013 we made the switch to kubernetes and made the bet on it as being the orchestration standard and you know as you saw Red Hat do with KVM and the hypervisor space you know designing everything around a standard that we could support for in the case of Linux up to ten years you know we're doing the same type of thing and making the platform the focus not the individual technology so applications that are developed ISVs that are focused with those customers on deploying those and now with major partners like IBM and Microsoft saying this is the thing that is going to live and breathe in your enterprise as you take existing applications moving them into the cloud native and space as well as also when you start building new applications on it on a fresh platform you've got you have business architecture in your title I want to talk about business architecture because with cloud scale business logic is where the innovation is and then using technology to scale that but you also have it's not always the best technology sometimes that makes the fit it could be the right technology at the right time and Jim White has mentioned that earlier in his interview today business architecture is about the win-win scenarios and open source as well as the commercialization piece can you comment on the preferred architecture of folks who want to go to the cloud and take advantage of the of the transformation happening how should they architect their business how should they think holistically around putting the pieces together whether it's vendor relationships rolling out and hiring new developers and moving to a cloud native cloud scale while preserving their existing investments so just like when we started with Linux and Red Hat Enterprise Linux in 2002 the focus has been on making sure that customers have choice as they do this and and you know it's the platform that matters and making sure that you have the scalable secure environment that you can run across these and so taking that choice theme on a standardized platform and about starting to be able to say regardless of what application you have where you need to be run or what services you need to plug in you need to make sure those are available everywhere so when when we talk to architects and business architects that are looking at pricing models and mechanisms these two things are now forefront in their design architectures when they start sitting down and so you know our focus has been how do we enable this common platform starting with Red Hat Enterprise Linux and open shift across every major cloud provider in the world and on-premise as those models start to change and so one of the announcements that we made was we're gonna be supporting open shift on Azure stack you know this opens up choice for those customers be able to say regardless from on-premise on a Red Hat OpenStack environment or a Azure stack environment or off-premise at major providers like IBM cloud and Microsoft Azure now being able to say that I've got the support across these architectures and the multiple business models that I want to be able to purchase that allow me to enter into this space like I want to drill down in that at the Microsoft announcement okay it's cuz it's multifaceted right it's not just like you can run you could run OpenShift on Azure stack on pram if you wanted to right it's it's it's it's a managed service on Asscher itself it's also integrated into some of their offerings like the now sequel server will be a Red Hat certified container as well as being a container over on their side and they're building it into their uh their dev programs and dev tools right but you'll get you get you get Red Hat credits as well if you're if you're sitting there in with the Microsoft toolset so can you talk a little bit about you know some of those points of contact maybe expand on the sure absolutely and so I think kind of the core point to recognize is you know for many years now we've been talking about containers as a packaging right well it's actually what's in the container that matters and and so from the perspective of that you know you know the position is I mean containers are Linux and and Linux is Red Hat Enterprise Linux and so when we start talking about this the foundation of this really starts from that angle and so with Microsoft we actually announced last fall that we're gonna do open shift dedicated which is the Red Hat managed service on on Amazon and Google we announced we're going to be taking that to Microsoft Azure as well but in the course of those discussions and sitting down with customers talking to the Microsoft teams you know became readily apparent that if we partnered on this and did something much more aggressive to build a higher value solution for the customer we could actually deliver something that that customer saw is not just a unified approach but actually a Microsoft offering and so what we announced yesterday and what Microsoft jointly announced with us was that that we're announcing the release and and the upcoming release of open shift on Azure which is a jointly managed and operated and supported open shift service it's actually the industry's first jointly managed service on a public cloud and so we look at those customers now can go to Microsoft get a first party offering from them be able to deploy their applications have Microsoft run the infrastructure Red Hat run the open chef platform and have that service role available so they can focus on the applications and not the infrastructure who gets the support on that is the Microsoft leading on the front you guys splitting the duties there yes that working so on the support side in 2015 we announced something called integrated hybrid support with Microsoft we actually had Red Hat associates on site in Redmond working side-by-side with Microsoft support personnel um this extends that but what we're also doing is with the open shift on Azure offering it's actually to be a Microsoft first party product they're gonna be selling in the market we will be selling in the market and so customers can call Microsoft is their first line but if they happen to call Red Hat we've got this back-end infrastructure we know how to escalate we've got joint ticketing systems we know actually how to work on this together so you know it is a combination call it a hybrid support ending the previous model you vets work absolutely not like a branding brand new thing yeah but customers who are you know large-scale as your users today will still call Microsoft and they'll be able to get to the right people through their Microsoft reps so I think one of the impacts what I see I'm gonna get your reaction this is that obviously that multi-cloud has been a big discussion and it's a future stay but that's what everyone wants choice right so they're doing a lot of work on premise and clarifying their architecture this has been a big part of today's world this seems to be a multi cloud opportunity for your customers is that kind of where you see the vein value yeah so you know when we look at the platform we want the platform to be consistent whether it's Red Hat Enterprise Linux and now open chef and have that available in a consistent way in a consistent price point and a consistent value representation to the customers regardless of where they want to go and so you know we've got customers that that will have a primary cloud and on-premise or a primary cloud and a backup and it on-premise and it's very important for their applications for the development life cycles and for their support mechanisms so they have one place to go one place to work with and focus on a singular platform that's why you know we hear us talk about this we're doing the exact same thing we did with Red Enterprise Linux we're not varying the technology we're integrating it deeper and in this case Microsoft very deeply in their infrastructure but providing the same value to customer above the line and then backing it with this jointly operated and managed service from Microsoft and containers has been a great tailwind for your business big time how has OpenShift success change your job in the past year or at all it's made it a lot harder because you know I think the evolution of containers evolution early on of the orchestration space you know people have been asking about alright are you following the community right how close to the Kerman kubernetes latest release are you you know that was a dialogue that we're now evolving in the industry to being how can I get the services that I need how do I get the support that I need and and how do I make sure it actually is secure and that you know when the next major issue comes out that that you know all my containers are up to date and so the complexity is increased from defective of we're no longer talking about certification of an ISV on Red Hat Enterprise Linux which happens to be certified on specific hardware now we're talking about living and breathing container life cycles from ISVs from end customers sitting on a platform that runs across all the public clouds and when the next security issue happens how do we make sure that the is v's containers of the end customers applications that are containers all in Red Hat Enterprise Linux containers that they actually are secure the the moment that that we release the patch across these and that's really the value in getting that across in the industry and be able to say that all of that works in concert with the new business models consumption and other things you know those are the complexities we're having to deal with now definitely a sign of 2018 right in some ways the world has come to red hat right you read has kept it it's open culture and open ethos certainly this is a signal like the new of the new Microsoft right playing with Red Hat Red Hat now also gets to support Windows containers I mean IBM although has been a supporter of open source and Linux and Red Hat for years so it is a I love the new world that a lot of our old assumptions are thrown away right and and and it's about delivering value to customers not necessarily what tribe you're in yeah and you see IBM I mean that has had a long play in the container space means starting with the bluemix environments and kind of moving into the latest thing with with IBM cloud private you know from from our perspective it's this unifying nature that says now that we can actually calm down and talk about what is enterprise need and how long it is and how do we build relationships in with IBM and with Microsoft they can really provide that so the customers can get the services they and the complexity you're talking about on your job is going to be an ecosystem opportunity for you you know making making more people come with it to the table to Red Hat so think you have a great opportunity in the ecosystem as well a final question for you is if someone's watching this video they say hey I want to do a deal with Mike I mean how are you doing deals - how do you evaluate is that a community-driven is it you know organic top down or is there a certain way that people can engage with you and read ad to do a business deal or is it ecosystem trip just take a minute to explain so the first thing we always look at is what are customers asking for and how can this help the community right those are the two things that drive the discussions at the CEO level with these partners that we're dealing with and even emerging markets I mean I sit down with small managed service providers and they want to offer OpenShift services in the same way that they've been doing Red Hat Enterprise Linux services for years and it's it's about the customers that are coming to them saying I see this as the platform I want to modernize my existing applications or start an it cloud native development using these how can we sit down and have the conversation so frankly from our perspective customers are key and so is the community and as long as we can have those two balances with relationships it's great and you mentioned the standardization when you have that kind of momentum and the industry and the communities it's going to enable a lot of opportunities and certainly you guys are doing great job so you've got a lot of we you're a busy guy yep absolutely Mike thanks for grating on the cue sharing your insights business development action going on a red hat big notable deals IBM and Microsoft just one of many that continues to be open doing the all out in the open it's the cube we're out in the open here in the middle of Moscone West I'm John four at John Torrio stay with us for more day two coverage of three days of live Red Hat summit covers be right back stay with us

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering AWS Re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're live here in Las Vegas for AWS Re:Invent 2017, Amazon Web Services Annual Conference. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of The Cube, and I'm here with Keith Townsend, my cohost. We got our next guest Mike Ferris, who's the Vice President of Business Architecture at Technical Business Development. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> So, Red Hat has got the new Hat, it's called the new school, it's called cloud, you have been there for a long time. Red has been pioneering open source, and that's growing exponentially. That combined with the cloud was seeing developers really at the heart of the conversation of valued creation. So, what's the update? I mean, you're here at AWS, you got some things to announce, things to share. >> Oh yeah, it's been awesome. I've been with the Red Hat a long time. And it's been an amazing transition to see us go from a company that really innovated the business models around open source taking Linux from being really a hobbyist activity into production workloads, and really addressing system administrators and IT administrators in the early days. What's really happened, especially since Amazon started innovating the public cloud, as you were saying, this innovative focus around what happens with developers in this space? And how can you provide more tools, capabilities, and services for them so they can really accelerate the applications and capabilities of the customers that they serve and really move forward. And so, what we've been doing very aggressively is looking up what's been happening in the open source community, helping innovate in the technologies that both Amazon and Red Hat and everybody else has been maturing, and help building out a new framework for developers to do that. And that's really centered around first, the base that we built on Red Hat Enterprise, Linux, and now more aggressively into Open Shift and container application platforms, so certainly the hot topics being Kubernetes, and everything's happening there, we've been really focused on that next generation of applications for developers. >> Everyone who watches Cube knows I'm a huge Red Hat fan, I always give you guys props because you guys were the progressives back in the day. You worked Tier One, you getting in there to give the freedom of coding back in the old days. And that was really the beginning of this massive wave. And if you look at open source and what you guys have done with open source and connected that to business value, has really been well documented. Amazon's done the same with the cloud. They were laughed at for years. Oh, it's a developer cloud. And they're winning all these enterprise deals. So, the threat here is you're starting to see that really, if you have great software and you have great value creation you can connect the business dots with developer dots. So, that being said, the rage now is server-less. The idea that you could tie containers and orchestrate work loads. This is kind of a little bit Open Shift connects there. What is the Red Hat value there because more open source, more community. What is all this Kubernetes, containerization and server-less, where does it all come together? >> So there's multiple levels, and kind of the core one that I always go back to is the core principles that enterprises need in making sure that they have secure platforms, they maintain over a long period of time, and they have a robust ecosystem that surrounds that. Those are the things that customers will always value, regardless of what level of a stack that they're investing in, and so by starting at, you know, the open source level and helping innovate in the technologies there, but bringing that in a way that customers can consume, that our partners can work with, and also gives them the extra value of what's happening in the new generation technologies, like containers and like Kubernetes, where we're actively participating, leading a lot of the development projects in the community around. Our focus is very much on taking those same core principles and making them applicable to anything new that gets developed. >> So Mike, talk to us about these core principles a little bit more. Red Hat, developer driven organization. You guys are deep in open source, from Linux to Kubernetes, to projects people have never heard of. Talk about the value that you bring to businesses, being able to have that developer driven focus internally, and starting to shift the conversation from just infrastructure, Linux, traditional, just keeping the lights on types of technologies to these new technologies, like Open Shift. How has the conversations changed? >> So certainly, you know, the developers now are actively engaged in the design of the systems and the products, not just the application that they develop, but the tools that they need, and our experience in working in the Linux community, where we were dealing with, certainly, open source developers on the Colonel and all the surrounding infrastructure, the thousands of projects that are there, we're taking that and applying it to what's happening in this application and container application space, so being able to engage those developers and say, what frameworks do you need? What tools do you need? What reliability levels do you need in these types of frameworks? Certainly provides a mechanism for them to engage, both with the community, but come to Red Hat for working with a company that can actually make that something that we will support for a longer period of time, that they can build their applications for, and also trust that they will have a strong support path through Red Hat that works upstream in the community to take any innovations that they need and be able to put them in the community as well as the supported products that we provide. >> So developer driven organization, talking to developers. Where's the grown ups in the rooms? The infrastructure of guys. So Red Hat has been known to take open source projects that can move extremely fast, Linux Colonel is an example of it, and make them enterprise ready, enterprise stable. How are you guys doing that with these developer tools, such as Kubernetes, that I frankly can't keep up with all the innovation happening in that space. How do you guys make something like Kubernetes enterprise ready? >> So this is kind of the beauty of a lot of what we do, right? So we work with and we hire the best developers we can find in the market to own projects, to be key contributors to those. Kubernetes is a great example. It was the Colonel in the early days for Linux, now it's in the Kubernetes space, but just as importantly, being able to say, you continue that innovative work in the community, but also make sure that we have reliable products that are fully tested by our, and backed by our support staff, that customers can, when they purchase into this ecosystem, can absolutely rely on, and if you look at what we've done, starting with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, we leaned how to move in that bifurcated market, where you're dealing with open source innovation, but also having to answer to customers that want to make sure that things are always up, always secure, and always stable, and it's that bifurcated model that we've relied on, and this is why when we look at open source, we consider our development model, we don't consider our business model, and that's very important. >> Mike, I want to get your thoughts on business architecture and technical architecture. I was having a debate last night at the analyst happy hour with a couple analysts, and I won't say their names, protect the innocent. We made a joke that said if you had to pick a parachute in 10 seconds, Amazon, Microsoft, or Google, which one would you grab? And of course this one analyst said, well it depends, so of course it depends. Just a thought exercise. I mean no one's going to pick any cloud in 10 seconds, but it makes you think, but the depends conversation does matter. Legacy, whether it's open source software or preexisting conditions of the data center or cloud, plays into it, but cloud is a new architecture. There are no walls, there's no perimeter, so how are you guys advising your customers to lay out the business architecture, the technical architecture, what's the playbook? Because a lot of CXOs are like scratching their head. I need a parachute, I need, it needs to open when I need it. I need the cloud now. >> Yeah, our core message to all of our customers in the market at large is really around hybrid, and that applies to both on premise and off premise, but it also means multiple clouds, right, and certainly when we partner with somebody like Amazon, we're focused on how can we build the best possible relationship and the best possible technical and business environment for customers to engage with that partner? And we did this, back in May we announced working with Amazon on Open Shift and we just launched, I think it was last week, Open Shift 3.7 that has service brokers integrated into Open Shift container platform so customers can actually deploy on premise Open Shift and use Amazon services remotely through their Open Shift applications, but our focus in that is to make sure that they have an open environment, just like we did at the beginning with REL, to say it works on all OEMs, now our focus is REL, Open Shift. It's available on all public clouds. We have over 500 CCSPs, our certified cloud service providers, and make sure that it all works together very well and that customers have choice in the end, and that's really what our focus has been. >> And also, I talked to Andy Jassie last week for an exclusive interview. He said the ecosystem is very robust, but even though they might come out with something, people are standing on their own with value, and it's not like they're trying to compete with the ecosystems, which people have concerns about, so that's kind of cool, I get why he's saying that, but I got to ask you the question. Elastic container service has been doing well. Containers are obviously great architecture, agree. We're expecting to hear elastic Kubernetes service, EKS, coming out this week. Some are speculating. I'm not sure if that's going to be announced, but you can almost imagine a Kubernetes version coming out from Amazon. Google's got their hand in it. So is Kubernetes going to become a political hot potato or is it going to maintain its stability? >> We certainly believe that it was and certainly is being validated now as the standard orchestration platform for containers, right, so we chose. >> That's a general sentiment across the whole community? >> Absolutely. Docker had its support for Kubernetes in the last couple of months, right, and so Amazon, if they choose to do so, great, right, we welcome that and engage, just like when we were doing Linux as our primary product platform, we welcomed, you know, Intel, IBM, everyone else to engage in the community, mature the technologies, and frankly we welcome competition when it comes down to it because that's really what makes things better for customers, and choice is very important. >> So you would agree that Kubernetes had a flash point? It's all good right now. Don't meddle with it. So what do we have to look for to make sure that no one tinkers with it too much and take it off the rails? >> Well I certainly hope they do tinker with it, right. >> John: In a good way. >> In a good way, but the community, and what happens in the open source development realm are really, the bad stuff gets weeded out over time, and you know we work with customers in the community, we make sure that where the community's going, we can reflect that to our customer base, so as Kubernetes matures, as the surrounding technologies for orchestration matures, sorry, for containers matures, we want to make sure we're engaged in those projects and working with a customer. >> John: So competition's good for innovation? >> Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. >> John: I would agree with that. >> So let's talk UpStack a little bit. >> Okay. >> Linux Colonel is Linux Colonel arm, X86. My Linux experience is Linux no matter the platform. Kubernetes, I just heard the same thing. AWS, Google compute, in my own data center, Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Open Shift, helps us to do that. Let's talk about the rest of my applications, my monolithic applications that are not designed for traditional, funny I'm saying this term, traditional Kubernetes, okay. How does Red Hat help with this abundant choice in market across cloud providers outside of Kubernetes? >> Well, one, so I think you need to understand that you know, Linux is not Linux is not Linux, right. Anytime you deploy a platform, whether it's Linux or whether it's Kubernetes, you are committing to something that is on a specific release cycle, that may have specific support statements, that may follow specific open source paths, and you need to beware what you're buying into, and I don't mean that from a financial perspective as much as what are you committing your infrastructure? >> Keith: What's my support model, right? >> So absolutely, Kubernetes is the de facto technology in the same way that Linux is the de facto technology, but you have to make sure that the thing that you're buying is something that you're going to be able to support and support your customers for long term, and so that's why, when just as you were saying earlier, you know we look at what's happening upstream, we absolutely follow that path, but we also want to make sure that customers have a long term support model and we can maintain that in a fiscally responsible way over a period of, likely a decade as we do with REL, right, so when customers buy into that, they're buying into not just the core technologies, but they're buying into everything that surrounds it, and so when you look. >> And you guys vetted it too. A lot of vetting goes on. >> Oh yeah, so you know the release engineering that we do, the working with partners on the releases themselves, all surround that, so we test, you know, Open Shift on public clouds, we test it on hardware, on virtualization. >> John: Red Hat stamp of approval means something. That's the bottom line. >> Yeah, it's not lightweight, and having been there so long, I can tell you it takes a lot of people and effort to make sure that that's there, but surrounding Kubernetes, right, all the dev ops capabilities, all of the, you know, integration, with partners like Amazon, those are the things that make the platform sing and allow a developer to come into the platform and immediately start deploying applications, developing and deploying applications, but also with the knowledge that when they develop from the one, it's actually deployed everywhere, and one of the lines that we've actually matured because we believe it strongly is that, you know, containers are Linux and Linux is REL, right, so when you go down this path, you're not just looking at which Kubernetes or, you know, which platform you want to get into, you're actually looking at what Linux am I going to choose? Because it's all one and the same and our focus has been how do we maintain those core principles of security, reliability, scalability, across this for decades? >> Mike, congratulations. You guys have been a great company to watch over the years, going back decades. Now even more, the Red Hat stamp of approval means something. Final question for you. I wanted to ask, it's a personal question. Put your personal industry tech geek hat on. Your friend's a CIO, CXO in a company, he's a friend, runs development shop for the same company, you're best friends. They ask you, what's going on with this Amazon thing? It's scale, all this stuff. How do I make sense of it? What's your answer? >> So Amazon has, I've been working with Amazon since 2007, and the innovation is not just in the technology. It's in how they do the business, the business models that surround it, and to me that means they're building an entire IT environment, right? It's not just about the software or the service they provide. It's how do you interact with your partners, with your customers. So when you look at Amazon, you're looking at the whole environment about how can I best serve my customers through this entire ecosystem? >> John: Sounds like an operating system to me. >> You know, cloud operating system, you know multiple levels can really come in here. >> It's a holistic picture, basically what you're saying. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Bigger picture. Okay Mike, thanks for coming on the Cube. Red Hat here, inside the Cube here for day one of live coverage of three days of AWS Re:Invent. I'm chatting with Keith Townsend, your host on set one here. Two sets, so much action, so many announcements, so much to talk about, so many great people here at Re:Invent 2017. We'll bring you more after this short break. (upbeat instrumental music)

>> Announcer: From Boston Massachusetts it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. (techno music theme) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Red Hat Summit. I'm Rebecca Knight, your host, with my co-host here, Stu Miniman. We are joined by Mike Ferris. He is Vice President Business Architecture at Red Hat. Thanks so much for joining us. >> You're welcome, glad to be here. >> I want to start out by talking about the Amazon announcement. We already had Jim Whitehurst on the program. He told us about the auspicious business meeting he had in Seattle, big breakfast meeting. >> Yep. >> You're a big player in how this is going to actually work in practice. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? >> Sure, so it's really exciting for us in that what we have done with Amazon is jointly delivered the power of the public cloud to hybrid and private clouds through OpenShift. A lot of what we've been talking with customers over the past several decades now, has actually been about, you know, how do you take enterprise software and make open source applicable to it? How do you really evolve your infrastructure and technologies in that context? With the emergence of the public cloud, specifically Amazon, starting in 2007, 2008, customers started taking the same technologies and using them on Amazon and we certainly grew into that model and really helped grow that evolution of customers to move to the public clouds. But what's been happening in the past couple of years, is customers have been asking, now that they're looking at things like Red Hat OpenStack, starting to look at alternative deployments and even emerging into the application platforms and container platforms, how can they take a lot of the power that specifically Amazon has been developing in the public cloud side and deliver it to those applications regardless of where they run? And so, between Jim's meeting, certainly with Andy Jassy, and then sitting down and talking about what types of evolution could we help grow, for application developers in the on-premise and hybrid environments, it really came out that the full suite of application services that Amazon has produced really provided a good stronghold for us to be able to say to the customers if we could provide those to you on-premise and give you the ability to scale and use innovative solutions from AWS, without having to worry about different interfaces, different relationships, and actually come to Red Hat and say OpenShift is the center for your application and container platforms. We thought it was an excellent example of saying we could take what Amazon's doing, deliver it inside OpenShift to those customers. >> This is a big, a really big revolutionary change. Can you just project out for us five years from now where will we be in terms of OpenShift and in terms of this partnership. >> A big piece of this is actually going back to the early promises of Java, and other polyglot platforms saying if you write an application it can run anywhere. Well now what's happening is that's starting to come true, in that with the emergence of hybrid and this concept of on and off premise. You did have the concept that you could take an application and move it. You could move it from one place to the other. Now, in having applications written to container platforms like OpenShift and having used services that may be local or may be remote, in a very consistent way, we are able to take those applications and use them everywhere. So we do see this in the next several years enabling customers and applications to be much more mobile. Leveraging resources where they're best run. It'd be able to take the platforms and have customers really grow the innovative solutions on-premise in the same way they've been able to do in the public clouds like AWS over the past several years. >> Mike, can you walk us through what the rollout of this is going to look like? When can customers get their hands on it? When is the training for all of your partners going to come? >> We're early in the phases now, with AWS, and you saw a demo today. We had an excellent demo with Amazon and Red Hat on stage showing the integration. You'll see early versions of it in the next couple of months and then customers will certainly be able to include that in their applications as we're deploying OpenShift. Likewise, in the fall or a little bit later than that. So, over the coming year you'll see this happen in the market. >> Andy Jossy in the video talked that there's, you know, thousands of Amazon services. How do we understand what's, you know, it's great to say great I can get Amazon in a small deployment but the devil's in the details and how's the networking work between my on-premises stuff and the public cloud. Can you help us unpack? And how do we look at this? >> The beauty of this is, you as a developer, maybe you've become familiar with AWS services, RDS, Route 53 et cetera. It's the same services delivered through OpenShift. So your experience and understanding, everything you've learned from Amazon, maybe doing some tests within the public cloud, or deploying other applications in the public cloud is going to look exactly the same on-premise and in the hybrid environment with OpenShift itself. So all the trainings and all the learnings that you've gone through will apply directly as well. As you start to deploy and build and deploy applications, the beauty of this, as I said, is you're going to be able to take them and use them on-premise or in the public cloud without any changes. And again, through that interface, where OpenShift will provide you the configuration, the ability to deploy and manage, for example, an RDS database, and have that be visible within your application in a very consistent way, even if you take it from one instance of OpenShift and move it to another. You can take the application and move it up into Amazon itself on OpenShift and it will run exactly the same. >> How should customers think about how they're going to be paying for this kind of thing? I think they understand that one of the things that Red Hat has done a great job is I want to start doing containers. I want to start doing OpenShift. You guys have streamlined a lot of those, you know, how the financial interactions work. You guys are, you know, subscription model as to how you do things. How do I look at this, whether I'm doing it in the public cloud, I'm doing it on-premises. How am I going to be able to compare those two. >> So, we're not announcing anything different in that model today. One of my core responsibilities for Red Hat is business architecture which really means what are the models that customers are adopting in the market? How can Red Hat respond to those and start to grow what's happening? What we've started with, with AWS here, is really a technical integration, and a services integration. Such that we will be able to help customers when they come to us with a question on their OpenShift deployment. Let's say they are using RDS, and they want to understand am I deploying it properly, is it being integrated? We will have knowledge about that, but they're still going to go directly to Amazon for their financial transaction. So buy the services from who you're actually acquiring them from, but use them together wherever you deploy them. That's really the crux of this. As we evolve, certainly we're open to looking at alternative business models. If customers start to say, well I want to acquire this everything from Red Hat or everything from Amazon it certainly would be an option but we're not yet there. >> In thinking about business models this has been a recurring question, because Red Hat's success appears to be a one off in the open source world. Why is the open source business model so challenging? As you said selling free is hard, but you're a 17 year veteran of this company. What's your perspective? >> So, multiple areas, right. One of the core ones that I always speak to customers and partners alike about is that we are very very well, internally we understand very well the difference between a product and a project. So when we go into a technology we always make sure that it's open source, whether we're acquiring a company, whether starting a project, or joining, like we did with OpenStack, a significant existing project. But that is a technical investment, it's something that we want to make sure that we have significant, not just ownership of in the community, but individuals inside the company that are involved, invested and maintainers of projects. But then, likewise, when we look at how we're going to service customers we think about long term life cycles, we think about how can we maintain our support models, our financial models, everything across that and that's what really helps turn it into a product for them, and for us specifically, and so this differentiation in talking about technology versus the business is very important to us. It does mean that we have to make some very explicit promises to customers and stick to those. Things like saying to the market, we will support our products for 10 year life cycles. Means that we have to be very rigorous with the testing, very rigorous on the updates, making sure that over that 10 years we can service the customers the way that we started to, but all from that same open source project. So it's really the purity of giving back to the community, staying involved in the community, but then also focused on the customer needs and the value that our enterprise businesses want to pay us for. >> Mike, in the keynote one of the statistics that Red Hat shared was that 59% of your customers have a multi-cloud environment. Can you share with us how your team, how you're helping customers think about that architecture, be a little bit more strategic. Our viewpoint is most customers, you know, are a lot multi-cloud because they've been very tactical, and very much done in application by application where things fit. Haven't necessarily, like they have forever with IT, had a grand strategy that pulls it all together. It's kind of like, oh I need this and therefore that did, or pricing was good. How are you helping customers with both advice and with architecture. >> It's not something that we use a lot now, but in the early days of Red Hat the word 'choice' was really a core part of vocabulary. So giving back to the community let our customers be able to say, alright, I always know that what Red Hat's doing is in the open source community and I can always do it on my own if I choose. What choice means now is being able to say back to them, well, regardless of where you're running these technologies and, for ones that you are paying Red Hat for, that you're buying subscriptions from us, we will make sure that they perform efficiently, that they have the appropriate security mechanisms in place and they work the same way across all the platforms that you deploy, and that includes things such as pricing models and business models, because we certainly don't want to introduce arbitrage, make it confusing for customers to acquire >> Rebecca: Choice overload. >> Yeah, and so in the end what we're really trying to do is make sure that when a customer goes out and deploys a technology from us they can use it wherever they want, that they can get support for what they want, and that their paying a fair price across all of those. And so when we talk about multi-cloud we're very careful about making sure that that technology works everywhere. So whether it's this integration with AWS on the services with OpenShift, or whether it's just Red Hat Enterprise Linux performing very efficiently and securely across every public cloud in the world, we're making sure that we have those hooks in place everywhere. >> When we're thinking about the cloud industry and the future and where it's going I know that you are a technology evangelist, you, yourself have 50 patents. What is, what do you see the future holding? What will we be talking about at the Red Hat Summit 2020 and 2025? >> One of my big motivations, and the company's motivations, is to continue to make technology easily consumable. You see this has already happened in the public clouds, with Amazon being able to give people credit card transactions, and start up a server literally in minutes where it used to take weeks or months for procurement. As people do this, as microservices start to emerge more, as security becomes a larger context for what they have to do in their environment to make sure that they're operating securely, our objective is to make sure that regardless of the platform we're producing, regardless of the underlying technology that we make it easy for them to be able to build and deploy and manage those environments everywhere. What that may turn into, and the hope certainly is that, you know, technology gets out of the way over time and customers, application developers can really focus on the innovation that ties back to their business, rather than which project are they using from the community or which proprietary product have they purchased. It really becomes about the businesses that they're in, rather than technology. >> You talked about security being number one in the minds of customers, also privacy. We also hear that US customers, just individuals, aren't as concerned about privacy and security as perhaps they should be. Do you see that following and just into the consumer group? Will the consumers take the lead of corporations? >> When we talk about our enterprise customers certainly security is a big piece of it, and if you look back when we started Red Hat Enterprise Linux a primary piece of that was making sure that we always had immediate response to security issues with our products in the market. That has continued as we've grown the portfolio to be the broad stack of solutions that we have today. What's happening now, and especially with this move toward containers, is all the value that we built into that security mechanism into Red Hat Enterprise Linux now starts to apply to the container environment. And I think we've said this a couple of times already, you know, containers are Linux and Linux is containers. You start to stretch that out some and that means that security is just as important, it's actually more important in an containerized application role than it was just in Linux. So this value of being able to say to a customer security's important, we've helped answer that question for Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and the other products that we've produced. Now we're able to answer that as you move into the microservices world, as you start to have applications you're developing, or other applications from ISDs that are containerized on Red Hat hosts and Red Hat containerized environments. Security's already part of that so it really becomes, you know, handed to the users for the end result. >> Mike, you've been with Red Hat for many years and we've heard culture at the core of what's doing, the question I have for you is we see just the rapid pace of change even more. How does a company like Red Hat keep up with this increasing pace. I think about what, how long it took Red Hat Enterprise Linux to get adoption and rollout and things like that versus, you know, OpenShift which was way more recent and is coming much faster and there's just that increased pace of change. What do you see that's changed, and what's the same at Red Hat for you? >> So, sameness really goes back to our commitments to community, commitments to value, and, you know, I've been here, again, 17 years and I will say that every individual in the company I trust. And that trust, the fact that the ethical nature of the way we operate, the executive leadership of the company, certainly helps me maintain that sameness across the, now approaching, decades that I've been in the company. How we keep up with the rapid pace of change, you know, that's always a challenge but everyone in the company continues to look forward to how do we help mature the value that Red Hat provides and how do we make sure we maintain our completeness and integration with the open source communities. So it's the community that's driving us, from a technology view, and the customers as well in that context but we want to make sure that we put back that and we continue to invest in the core DNA that really made Red Hat Linux, even before Red Hat Enterprise Linux successful when it started. >> Mike, thanks so much for joining us, we really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, with Stu Miniman. We will return with more of theCube's coverage of the Red Hat Summit. (techno music theme)