>>From Las Vegas. It's the cube covering Qualis security conference 2019 you buy quality. >>Hey, welcome back. You're ready. Jeff Frick here with the cube. We're in Las Vegas at the Bellagio, at the quality security conference. It's the 19th year they've been doing this. It's our first year here and we're excited to be here and it's great to have a veteran who's been in this space for so long, to give a little bit more of a historical perspective as to what happened in the past and where we are now and what can we look forward to in the future. So coming right off his keynote is Felipe korto, the chairman and CEO of Qualys. Phillip, great to see you. Thank you. Same, same, same for me. Absolutely. So you touched on so many great, um, topics in your conversation about kind of the shifts of, of, of modern computing from the mainframe to the mini. We've heard it over and over and over, but the key message was really about architecture. If you don't have the right architecture, you can't have the right solution. So how has the evolution of architects of architectures impacted your ability to deliver security solutions for your clients? >>So now that's a very good question. And in fact, you know, what happened is that we started in 1999 with a vision that we could use exactly like a salesforce.com this nascent internet technologies and apply that to security. And uh, so, and mod when you have applied that to essentially changing the way CRM was essentially used and deployed in enterprises and with a fantastic success as we know. So for us, the, I can say today that 19 years later the vision was right. It took a significant longer because the security people are not really, uh, warm at the idea of silently, uh, having the data in their view, which was in place that they could not control. And the it people, they didn't really like at all the fact that suddenly they were not in control anymore of the infrastructure. So we had a lot of resistance. >>I, wherever we always, I always believe, absolutely believe that the, the cloud will be the cloud architecture to go back. A lot of people make the confusion. That was part of the confusion that for people it was a cloud, that kind of magical things someplace would you don't know where. And when I were trying to explain, and I've been saying that so many times that well you need to look at the cloud like compute that can architecture which distribute the competing power far more efficiently than the previous one, which was client server, which was distributing the convening power far better than of course the mainframes and the mini computers. And so if you look at their architectures, so the mainframe were essentially big data centers in uh, in Fort Knox, like settings, uh, private lines of communication to a dump terminal. And of course security was not really issue then because it's security was built in by the IBM's and company. >>Same thing with the mini computer, which then was instead of just providing the computing power to the large, very large company, you could afford it. Nelson and the minicomputer through the advanced in semiconductor technology could reduce a foot Frank. And then they'll bring that computing power to the labs and to the departments. And was then the new era of the digital equipment, the prime, the data general, et cetera. Uh, and then kind of server came in. So what client server did, again, if you look at the architecture, different architecture now silently servers, the land or the internal network and the PC, and that was now allowing to distribute the computing power to the people in the company. And so, but then you needed to, so everybody, nobody paid attention to security because then you were inside of the enterprise. So it started inside the walls of the castle if you prefer. >>So nobody paid attention to that. It was more complex because now you have multiple actors. Instead of having one IBM or one digital equipment, et cetera, suddenly you have the people in manufacturing and the servers, the software, the database, the PCs, and on announcer, suddenly there was the complexity, increasing efficiency, but nobody paid attention to security because it wasn't a needed until suddenly we realized that viruses could come in through the front door being installed innocently. You were absolutely, absolutely compromised. And of course that's the era of the antivirus which came in. And then because of the need to communicate more and more now, Senator, you could not stay only in your castle. You needed to go and communicate to your customers, to your suppliers, et cetera, et cetera. And now he was starting to open up your, your castle to the world and hello so now so that the, the bad guy could come in and start to steal your information. >>And that was the new era of the forward. Now you make sure that those who come in, but of course that was a little bit naive because there were so many other doors and windows, uh, that people could come in, you know, create tunnels and create these and all of that trying to ensure your customers because the data was becoming more and more rich and more, more important or more value. So whenever there is a value, of course the bad guys are coming in to try to sell it. And that was that new era of a willing to pay attention to security. The problem has been is because you have so many different actors, there was nothing really central there that was just selling more and more solutions and no, absolutely like 800 vendors bolting on security, right? And boating on anything is short-lived at the end of the day because you put more and more weight and then you also increase the complexity and all these different solutions you need. >>They need to talk together so you have a better context. Uh, but they want the design to talk together. So now you need to put other system where they could communicate that information. So you complicated and complicated and complicated the solution. And that's the problem of today. So now cloud computing comes in and again, if you look at the architecture of cloud computing, it's again data centers, which is not today I've become thanks to the technology having infinite, almost competing power and storage capabilities. And like the previous that I sent her, the are much more fractured because you just one scale and they become essentially a little bit easier to secure. And by the way, it's your fewer vendors now doing that. And then of course the access can be controlled better. Uh, and then of course the second component is not the land and the one, it's now the internet. >>And the internet of course is the web communications extremely cheap and it brings you an every place on the planet and soon in Morris, why not? So and so. Now the issue today is that still the internet needs to be secure. And today, how are we going to secure the internet? Which is very important thing today because you see today that you can spoof your email, you can spoof your website, uh, you can attack the DNS who, yes, there's a lot of things that the bad guys still do. And in fact, they've said that leverage the internet of course, to access everywhere so they take advantage of it. So now this is obviously, you know, I created the, the trustworthy movement many years ago to try to really address that. Unfortunately, the quality's was too small and it was not really our place today. There's all the Google, the Facebook, the big guys, which in fact their business depend on the internet. >>Now need to do that. And I upload or be diabetic, criticized very much so. Google was the first one to essentially have a big initiative, was trying to push SSL, which everybody understand is secret encryption if you prefer. And to everybody. So they did a fantastic job. They really push it. So now today's society is becoming like, okay, as I said, you want to have, as I said it all in your communication, but that's not enough. And now they are pushing and some people criticize them and I absolutely applaud them to say we need to change the internet protocols which were created at a time when security, you were transferring information from universities and so forth. This was the hay days, you know, of everything was fine. There was no bad guys, you know, the, he'd be days, if you like, of the internet. Everybody was free, everybody was up and fantastic. >>Okay. And now of course, today this protocol needs to be upgraded, which is a lot of work. But today I really believe that if you put Google, Amazon, Facebook altogether, and they can fix these internet protocols. So we could forget about the spoofing and who forgot about all these phishing and all these things. But this is their responsibility. So, and then you have now on the other side, you have now very intelligent devices from in a very simple sensors and you know, to sophisticated devices, the phone, that cetera and not more and more and more devices interconnected and for people to understand what is going. So this is the new environment and whether we always believe is that if you adopt an architecture, which is exactly which fits, which is similar, then we could instead of bolting security in, we can now say that the build security in a voting security on, we could build security in. >>And we have been very proud of the work that we've done with Microsoft, which we announced in fact relatively recently, very recently, that in fact our agent technologies now is bundled in Microsoft. So we have built security with Microsoft in. So from a security perspective today, if you go to the Microsoft as your secretly center, you click on the link and now you have the view of your entire Azure environment. Crazier for quality Sagent. You click on a second link and now you have the view of your significant loss posture, crazy of that same quality. Say Sagent and then you click on the third name with us. Nothing to do with quality. It's all Microsoft. You create your playbook and you remediate. So security in this environment has become click, click, click, nothing to install, nothing to update. And the only thing you bring are your policies saying, I don't want to have this kind of measured machine expose on the internet. >>I want, this is what I want. And you can continuously audit in essentially in real time, right? So as you can see, totally different than putting boxes and boxes and so many things and then having to for you. So very big game changer. So the analogy that I want you that I give to people, it's so people don't understand that paradigm shift is already happening in the way we secure our homes. You put sensors everywhere, you have cameras, you have detection for proximity detection. Essentially when somebody tried to enter your home, all that data is continuously pumped up into an incidence restaurant system. And then from your phone, again across the internet, you can change the temperature of your rooms. You can do what you can see the person who knocks on the door. You can see its face, you can open the door, close the door, the garage door, you can do all of that remotely, another medically. >>And then if there's a burglar then in your house to try to raking immediately the incidents or some system called the cops or the far Marsha difficult fire. And that's the new paradigm. So security has to follow that paradigm. And then you have interesting of the problem today that we see with all the current secretly uh, systems, uh, incidents, response system. They have a lot of false positive, false positive and false negative are the enemy really of security. Because if you are forced visited, you cannot automate the response because then you are going to try to respond to something that is not true. So you are, you could create a lot of damage. And the example I give you that today in the, if you leave your dog in your house and if you don't have the ability, the dog will bark, would move. And then the sensors would say intruder alert. >>So that's becomes a false positive. So how do you eliminate that? By having more context, you can eliminate automatically again, this false positives. Like now you take a fingerprint of your dog and of these voice and now the camera and this and the sensors and the voice can pick up and say, Oh, this is my dog. So then of course you eliminate that for solar, right? Right. Now even if another dog managed to enter your home through a window which was open or whatever for soul, you will know her window was up and but you know you cannot necessarily fix it and the dog opens. Then you will know it's a, it's a, it's not sure about, right? So that's what security is evolving such a huge sea of change, which is happening because of all that internet and today companies today, after leveraging new cloud technology, which are coming, there's so much new technology. >>What people understand is where's that technology coming from? How come silently we have, you know, Dockers netics all these solutions today, which are available at almost no cost because it's all open source. So what happened is that, which is unlike the enterprise software, which were more the Oracle et cetera, the manufacturer of that software today is in fact the cloud public cloud vendors, the Amazon, the Google, the Facebook, the Microsoft. We suddenly needed to have to develop new technology so they could scale at the size of the planet. And then very shrewdly realized that effective that technology for me, I'm essentially going to imprison that technology is not going to evolve. And then I need other technologies that are not developing. So they realized that they totally changed that open source movement, which in the early days of opensource was more controlled by people who had more purity. >>If you prefer no commercial interests, it was all for the good of the civilization and humankind. And they say their licensing model was very complex. So they simplified all of that. And then nothing until you had all this technology coming at you extremely fast. And we have leverage that technology, which was not existing in the early days when when socials.com started with the Linux lamp pour called what's called Linux Apache. My SQL and PHP, a little bit limiting, but now suddenly all this technology, that classic search was coming, we today in our backend, 3 trillion data points on elastic search clusters and we return inflammation in a hundred milliseconds. And then onto the calf cabin, which is again something at open source. We, we, we, and now today 5 million messages a day and on and on and on. So the world is changing and of course, if that's what it's called now, the digital transformation. >>So now enterprises to be essentially agile, to reach out to the customers better and more, they need to embrace the cloud as the way they do, retool their entire it infrastructure. And essentially it's a huge sea of change. And that's what we see even the market of security just to finish, uh, now evolving in a totally different ways than the way it has been, which in the past, the market of security was essentially the market for the enterprise. And I'm bringing you my, my board, my board town solutions that you have to go and install and make work, right? And then you had the, the antivirus essentially, uh, for all the consumers and so forth. So today when we see the marketplace, which is fragmenting in four different segments, which is one is the large enterprise which are going to essentially consolidate those stock, move into the digital transformation, leveraging absolutely dev ops, which isn't becoming the new buyer and of course a soak or they could improve, uh, their it for, to reach out to more customers and more effectively than the cloud providers as I mentioned earlier, which are building security in the, no few use them. >>You don't have to worry about infrastructure, about our mini servers. You need, I mean it is, it's all done for you. And same thing about security, right? The third market is going to be an emergence of a new generation of managed security service providers, which are going to take to all these companies. We don't have enough resources. Okay, don't worry, I'm going to help you, you know, do all that digital transformation. And that if you build a security and then there's a totally new market of all these devices, including the phone, et cetera, which connects and that you essentially want to all these like OT and IOT devices that are all now connected, which of course presents security risk. So you need to also secure them, but you also need to be able to also not only check their edits to make sure that, okay, because you cannot send people anymore. >>So you need to automate the same thing on security. If you find that that phone is compromised, you need to make, to be able to make immediate decisions about should I kill that phone, right? Destroyed everything in it. Should I know don't let that phone connect anymore to my networks. What should I do? Should I, by the way detected that they've downloaded the application, which are not allowed? Because what we see is more and more companies now are giving tablets, do the users. And in doing so now today's the company property. So they could say, okay, you use these tablets and uh, you're not allowed to do this app. So you could check all of that and then automatically remote. But that again requires a full visibility on what you are. And that's why just to finish, we make a big decision about a few, three months ago that we have, we build the ability for any company on the planet to automatically build their entire global HSE inventory, which nobody knows what they have in that old networking environment. >>You don't know what connects to have the view of the known and the unknown, totally free of charge, uh, across on premise and pawn cloud containers, uh, uh, uh, whether vacations, uh, OT and IOT devices to come. So now there's the cornerstone of security. So with that totally free. So, and then of course we have all these additional solutions and we're build a very scalable, uh, up in platform where we can take data in, pass out data as well. So we really need to be and want to be good citizen here because security at the end of the day, it's almost like we used to say like the doctors, you have to have that kind of apricot oath that you cannot do no arm. So if you keep, if you try to take the data that you have, keep it with you, that's absolutely not right because it's the data of your customers, right? >>So, and you have to make sure that it's there. So you have to be a good warning of the data, but you have to make sure that the customer can absolutely take that data to whatever he wants with it, whatever he needs to do. So that's the kind of totally new field as a fee. And finally today there is a new Ash culture change, which is, which is happening now in the companies, is that security has become fronted centers, is becoming now because of GDPR, which has a huge of financial could over you challenge an impact on a company. A data breach can have a huge financial impact. Security has become a board level. More and more social security is changing and now it's almost like companies, if they want to be successful in the future, they need to embrace a culture of security. And now what I used to say, and that was the, the conclusion of my talk is that now, today it DevOps, uh, security compliance, people need to unite. Not anymore. The silos. I do that. This is my, my turf, my servers. You do that, you do this. Everybody in the company can work. I have to work together towards that goal. And the vendors need to also start to inter operate as well and working with our customers. So it's a tall, new mindset, which is happening, but the safes are big. That's what I'm very confident that we're now into that. Finally, we thought, I thought it would have happened 10 years ago, quite frankly. And uh, but now today's already happening. >>She touched on a lot, a lot there. And I'll speak for another two hours if we could. We could go for Tara, but I want to, I want to unpack a couple of things. We've had James Hamilton on you to at AWS. Um, CTO, super smart guy and it was, it was at one of his talks where it really was kind of a splash, a wet water in the face when he talked about the amount of resources Amazon could deploy to just networking or the amount of PhD power he could put on, you know, any little tiny sub segment of their infrastructure platform where you just realize that you just can't, you can't compete, you cannot put those kinds of resources as an individual company in any bucket. So the inevitability of the cloud model is just, it's, it's the only way to leverage those resources. But because of that, how has, how has that helped you guys change your market? How nice is it for you to be able to leverage infrastructure partners? Like is your bill for go to market as well as feature sets? And also, you know, because the other piece they didn't talk about is the integration of all these things. Now they all work together. Most apps are collection of API APIs. That's also changed. So when you look at the cloud provider GCP as well, how does that help you deliver value to your customers? >>Yeah, but the, the, the, the club, they, they don't do everything. You know, today what is interesting is that the clubs would start to specialize themselves more and more. So for example, if you look at Amazon, the, the core value of Amazon since the beginning has been elastic computing. Uh, now today we should look at Microsoft. They leverage their position and they really have come up with a more enterprise friendly solution. And now Google is trying to find also their way today. And so then you have Addy Baba, et cetera. So these are the public cloud, but life is not uniform like is by nature. Divers life wants to leave lunch to find better ways. We see that that's what we have so many different species and it just ended up. So I've also the other phenomena of companies also building their own cloud as well. >>So the word is entering into a more hybrid cloud. And the technology is evolving very fast as well. And again, I was selling you all these open source software. There's a bigger phenomenon at play, which I used to say that people don't really understand that much wood, but it's so obvious is if you look at the printing price, that's another example that gives the printing price essentially allowed, as we all know, to distribute the gospel, which has some advantage of, you know, creating more morality, et cetera. But then what people don't know for the most part, it distributed the treaties of the Arabs on technology, the scientif treaties, because the archives, which were very thriving civilization at the time, I'd collected all the, all the, all the information from India, from many other places and from China and from etc. And essentially at the time all of Europe was pretty in the age they really came up and it now certainty that scientific knowledge was distributed and that was in fact the seeds of the industrial revolution, which then you're up cat coats and use that and creating all these different technologies. >>So that confidence of this dimension of electricity and all of that created the industrial revolution seeded by now, today what is happening is that the internet is the new printing press, which now is distributing the knowledge that not to a few millions of people to billions of people. So the rate today of advancing technology is accelerating and it's very difficult. I was mentioning today, we know today that work and working against some quantum computing which are going to totally change things. Of course we don't know exactly how and you have also it's clear that today we could use genetic, uh, the, the, the, if you look at DNA, which stores so much information, so little place that we could have significant more, you know, uh, memory capabilities that lower costs. So we have embarked into absolutely a new world where things are changing. I've got a little girl, which is 12 years old and fundamentally that new generation, especially of girls, not boys, because the boys are still on, you know, at that age. >>Uh, they are very studious. They absorb so much information via YouTube. They are things like a security stream. They are so knowledgeable. And when you look back at history 2000 years plus ago in Greece, you at 95 plus percent of the population slaves. So a few percent could start to think now, today it's totally changed. And the amount of information they can, they learn. And this absolutely amazing. And you know, she, she's, I would tell you the story which has nothing to do with computing, but as a button, the knowledge of, she came to me the few, few weeks ago and she said, Oh daddy, I would like to make my mother more productive. Okay. So I said, Oh, that's her name is Avia, which is the, which is the, the, the either Greece or Zeus weathered here. And so I say, Evie, I, so that's a good idea. >>So how are you going to do it? I mean, our answer, I was flawed, but that is very simple. Just like with, for me, I'm going to ask her to go to YouTube to learn what she needs to learn. Exactly. And she learns, she draws very well. She learns how to draw in YouTube and it's not a gifted, she's a nice, very nice little girl and very small, but all her friends are like that. Right? So we're entering in a word, which thing are changing very, very fast. So the key is adaptation, education and democracy and democratization. Getting more people access to more. Absolutely. It's very, very important. And then kind of this whole dev ops continuous improve that. Not big. That's a very good point that you make because that's exactly today the new buyer today in security and in it is becoming the DevOps shipper. >>Because what? What are these people? There are engineers which suddenly create good code and then they want to of course ship their code and then all these old silos or you need to do these, Oh no, we need to put the new server, we don't have the capacity, et cetera. How is that going to take three months or a month? And then finally they find a way through, again, you know, all the need for scale, which was coming from the Google, from the Facebook and so forth. And by the way, we can shortcut all of that and we can create and we can run out to auto-ship, our code. Guess what are they doing today? They are learning how to secure all of that, right? So again, it's that ability to really learn and move. And today, uh, one of the problem that you alluded to is that, which the Amazon was saying is that their pick there, they have taken a lot of the talent resources in the U S today because of course they pay them extra to me, what? >>Of course they'll attract that talent. And of course there's now people send security. There's not enough people that even in, but guess what? We realized that few years ago in 2007, we'll make a big decision who say, well, never going to be able to attract the right people in the Silicon Valley. And we've started to go to India and we have now 750 people. And Jack Welch used to say, we went to India for the cost and discover the talent. We went to India for the talent and we discover the cost. And there is a huge pool of tenants. So it's like a life wants to continue to leave and now to, there are all these tools to learn, are there, look at the can Academy, which today if you want to go in nuclear physics, you can do that through your phone. So that ability to learn is there. So I think we need just more and more people are coming. So I'm a very optimistic in a way because I think the more we improve our technologies that we look at the progress we're making genetics and so everywhere and that confidence of technology is really creating a new way. >>You know, there's a lot of conversations about a dystopian future and a utopian future with all these technologies and the machines. And you know what? Hollywood has shown us with AI, you're very utopian side, very optimistic on that equation. What gives you, what gives you, you know, kind of that positive feeling insecurity, which traditionally a lot of people would say is just whack a mole. And we're always trying to chase the bad guys. Generally >>speaking, if I'm a topian in in a way. But on the other end, you'd need to realize that unfortunately when you have to technological changes and so forth, it's also create factors. And when you look at this story in Manatee, the same technological advancement that some countries to take to try to take advantage of fathers is not that the word is everything fine and everything peaceful. In fact, Richard Clark was really their kid always saying that, Hey, you know that there is a sinister side to all the internet and so forth. But that's the human evolution. So I believe that we are getting longterm. It's going to. So in the meantime there's a lot of changes and humans don't adapt well to change. And so that's in a way, uh, the big challenge we have. But I think over time we can create a culture of change and that will really help. And I also believe that probably at some point in time we will re-engineer the human race. >>All right, cool. We'll leave it there. That's going to launch a whole nother couple hours. They leave. Congratulations on the event and a great job on your keynote. Thanks for taking a few minutes with us. Alrighty. It's relief. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube where the Qualice security conference at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>Live from the Mandalay convention center in Las Vegas, Nevada it's doc cube at IBM insight, 2014. Here are your hosts, John furrier and Dave Volante. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. We are here. Live in Las Vegas for IBM impact. This is the cube special presentation at IBM insight inside the digital experience. IBM insight go. Social media lounge. Uh, the social media gurus are here. John furry with David. Um, that's playing off the joke. We're just sharing on Twitter, but seriously, we're here. If I didn't see this on the noise, my coast, Dave latte, next guest Marsha Cola year. Who's the managing director of impact ingenuity at Marsha Marsha. Yes, that's your Twitter handle is awesome. Welcome. Welcome back. Welcome back. >>Well, thanks. It's thrilled to be here. >>So we were just joking about Halloween and we're going to be a social media guru. It's a little bit of a meme going around the internet. I mean, there is no social media guru. I mean, you can't really be a guru with developing technology. You can be a practitioner. I mean, I mean, guru, what is a social media? What is a social media guru? This, >>This is where, because I offered that. I would answer any question you ask me, you can ask me those things. Sure. Well, I think that's the problem. I think that's why it'd be a fabulous Halloween costume. I'm going to think about doing that one too, because people seem to be know to these folks. So following them to the ends of the earth, because of something that they sit on, social media, I mean that, that's a kind of a scary concept, but Google glass >>As well. I mean, I mean, I'm not going to go there. Um, but let's talk, let's go in into that, that theme. I mean, honestly, you know, Jeff Jonas was just on he's awesome. We always get in the weeds. He's a fun character to talk to, but he's super smart as we're on this G2 thing, observation space, but we're all internet of things, right? I mean, it reminds me of that book is to read to my kids thing one and thing two, you know, we, all things we're all in another thing. So what do you see as that impact to, uh, this digital transformation where not only are the humans connected to the machines, the data that they're exhausting or sharing or streaming, but the machines are connected and collecting as well. How is that going to change? What's your view on all this? >>While I have been in the technology sector, most of my, uh, most of my life, uh, and I appreciate and enjoy the technology. I never lose sight of the fact that this is about the people it's about us actually working together of actually learning together, doing whatever the hell it is we're needing to do. So if all of my appliances are actually then taking care of the mundane, if my water softener system is actually getting the water put in and getting delivered on the right day, you know, all, all the better. If the, if the toaster is alerting me to some sort of news, I'm thrilled. I love the idea of the technology. Actually being able to take care of all that stuff that we never wanted to do in the first place, but the technology has been so lousy over the last couple of years, actually forever, uh, that we've had to do this stuff because the technology isn't doing it for us. >>Sure. I was a patient out in the customer space because that's, you know, that's more of the home example, but even business now seems to be early innings. I mean, people are kicking the tires. You know, we've talked to all the gurus coming up here who are the tech side, IBM and customers. And the reality is we're all pro data, which we all kind of see that obvious social data and, you know, big data analytics, certainly helpful, but this transformation people are now really changing how to operate, operationalize their business with it. It's a huge daunting task and it's scary. Um, some people are like, whoa, I don't want to do it. Or, Hey, I'm jumping in. I'm cool. Is there a cool factor? Is there a scared factor? What's your, what's your observation from mountain talking to everyone out in the, in the marketplace? >>Well, first I would, I'll totally bash the, the idea that this is only a consumer play or that it doesn't apply to businesses. Think of all the, uh, the mundane and ridiculous things we have to do at work because they're not being taken care of us. We aren't taken care of for us by our desks. If you want to look at that way or our computers, I loved hearing about the, the new, uh, uh, pairing of, uh Wayblazer and, you know, Watson and the idea of the travel being taken care of us, what we discover because of the data that we're putting off each and every moment is their systems around us all the time that actually know our preferences, know how we would be handling this, but yet they don't do anything about it. So the idea that we can actually move forward in that way should be just as applicable to our business. Uh, a manager should not have to actually be asking some of the questions that they're asking the HR department is need to be asking how you're doing. It's evident by all the things that you put out into the world. And by just actually attending to what's going on, we have a huge opportunity to get back all that time that we've been wasting all these years. I'm just a stupid >>And just to what's. So what's the bottleneck is a fear security, oh, we don't want privacy. Marcia will get offended. If we tweet her, she knows that we know that she tweeted that. I mean, that's, that's a concern. People have, it seems to be, is it? Yeah. Well, look, go back up, >>But why is it a concern? It's because the people who've been doing it early are doing it horribly. I mean, they're doing it in not respectful ways. There isn't actually a real thought about how would I be okay with this doing? And then those are we're. So ahead of the curve, maybe because of the guru status, some of these social media, maybe that maybe that's the reason, >>Just look at the government, they were big data gurus and they screwed up that that whole Snowden thing was all like, Hey, just ask us, we'll give you our email addresses. You can search my email, have a nice day. >>It's a very different message. It's a very different conversation. It's a very different question. It's a very different level of respect that we have from one person working with another. I'm actually talking with people as opposed to at them. And instead of just making assumptions of actually participating, I mean, the idea that engagement is goal just implies that we haven't been engaged all these years. We haven't been thinking we haven't been doing, I haven't met. I personally, haven't met a really dumb person. It, you know, and years, and yet everything I do at would imply that we're, we're too stupid to be able to really think and act and, and be thoughtful about it. >>So you're an influencer. Um, you're out here in the digital sphere and you are, you're hearing influencer. Um, I mean, whatever you define it. Well, it's, I guess if they say so, if you are a VIP influencer, we'll go with that. Um, >>Digging on your Twitter stream here. Fantastic. >>Working on it. So share this law, you know, we'd love, we'd love to hear your stories cause you last year you were awesome with the cube. We'd love, love JV. Give us the update. What's going on with, sorry. We started together Ted at IBM conference. You super busy. Um, what's going on share with the folks out there. Some of the things you've been even into what your what's working show some, you know, some stuff that didn't work, what's going on, what's happening? What are you, what are you doing? What are you worried? All right, >>John, if you're going to ask them, I'm telling you you're really, if you're really ready, Don Damian, probably a little after I saw you last time after I was visiting here that, uh, our world's falling apart. And if all of us actually don't get on that. If we don't actually start figuring out how to use the precious time we have the, the precious money we have, the, the roles we have in our organizations, the resources at our disposal, our brains for good, not evil. I'm not so sure about the world that my son is going to be inheriting for example. And, uh, I'm, I'm at a point in my life where I realize, I, I know a heck of a lot in the world. I have a lot of skills, everybody. I know. I look at these people around me having tremendous skills. And instead of us just sort of churning out the butter one more year, uh, we best, we best be thinking about what can I do given what I have of my time and my resources, my skills, or whatever that is and apply that to what I have influence over and be able to make as much difference. >>Are we talking about God's last offer here, the sustainable world, or what's actually on all? >>Oh, you're not at the time that the timing is perfect too. If you think about it, don't seriously. >>What are we talking about? The deterioration of our planet? We're talking about social condition. Yes, >>I, well, I mean, I can go on and >>On about money return. I can, I can entertain for hours. You just made. The comment >>I made is that no matter where we look, that that scientists have pointed out that we're past the point of no return with our climate. We, uh, we look at the, uh, at the deterioration of the planet around us. I happen to live in the woods and I mean, deep in the woods and you can, you can see the change of how much rain is coming down. That didn't, I mean, I, I'm not, my intent here is not to talk about all the, that the problems around us. We all actually feel them, even if we're not acknowledging them, what I see is the wasted opportunity of us, not actually, re-examining what we're choosing to do and figure out how, whatever it is we're capable of doing could actually be helping instead of bringing it up. So how should people, let's say, people want to know that's good, but I just wanted to frame it. So let's >>Take people want to, so let's say that resonates to somebody in the audience. What should they do? How should they start pick a passion? And they >>Have, um, I mean, I, my, my approach to all the change work I do and have been doing with corporations for the last 20 years is actually not additive. It's not asking the question. What more could I do? Because that's usually what keeps people from doing it. I asked the question, what's keeping me from doing what I've always known needed to be done. So in, in our communities, you know, my experience is everybody knows who it is that could use some assistance, not in a handout sort of way in a reaching out and caring way of asking of, of having a conversation, a participating, and to be able to step back and ask that question. What's keeping me from doing that. We know what needs to be done, but we're not doing it. So how can I say, oh, well, what's keeping me from doing it. I don't have time to do it. Okay. Well, what can I do to actually just get a little bit more time to do something that matters in the world? So that that's the most, very, >>Very basic level. It could be slowly be that it's, >>It's less Twitter. It could also be a re-evaluating how much time I'm spending at work on stuff that could be automated. I mean, going back to this whole conversation about automation, it is to ask those questions. What I can do. That's just about time. Um, >>I, yeah, that is one of the biggest objections I don't have time. Right? >>Yeah. So what I find is when I talk about, uh, global health actually, is that when we look at the idea of health, not as in just exercising more or just eating, right, we're talking about fiscal health, we're talking about, uh, creating a world that is just, uh, a healthier place. When I ask people those questions, most of them can say, well, yeah, this isn't, this is important to me, but I don't know what to do about it. So one is, as you absolutely said, is finding, finding those passions and be able to figure out what you're going to do. But more importantly, to ask yourself that question, when am I going to do this? If not now, I feel like I'm, I'm falling. Like I, uh, I'm Mike is falling out. Let me, let me get that. >>Well, we chit chat a lot of hair. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, okay. So we're talking about different ways to find time. >>Um, Dave, I mean, I think it's a great time. I mean, the passionate thing, passionate thing is where the keyword is contributing, right? So like, I think it's a good time because I have, we, I, we both Dave and I both have four kids. So we see the new generation in their minds all the time because we're driving around, but they're impressionable right now is the old expression is you can grab the play though, and you can shape it. You can act, we can actually, as leaders and mature experience, instant people that have some skills in computing, we can influence like stem. We can influence women in tech. We can influence computer science curriculums or get influenced modern society because the new generation is coming in and they're natives, they're adopting and they're thirsty for leadership, but I don't think that they're seeing it. So I think there's really a good time. You've seen the Kickstarter crowdsourcing stuff is really becoming a part of this new tribe. So I believe the gravity around making things happen is participation, collaboration and data. Data is knowledge, endorsement, social proof. These are concepts that are easily transferable. If you can just, if you just wake up and do it. So I think, you know, >>If you just wake up and do it everywhere about, so Y Y if you wake up every day, why aren't you doing it today? >>We have Craig brown on earlier, he's doing $25,000 investments for kids to start companies, you know, whether the inner city kids. And that's pretty cool. I mean, so, you know, this is, this is the democratization piece, but in a connected network, it's frictionless communication. I mean, hell Twitter, overthrew governments. So you can have solidarity, peaceful solidarity as well as other rev revolution. So I think that's a very doable thing versus just checking the Basel. I volunteer to do something. And I think that has been more of like a peace Corps. I helped people. >>Uh, and I'm personally, I asked this question of everybody that I asked her, actually asked two questions of everybody I work with now. Uh, one of them is what can you not do? What can you not, not do actually. So if you, if you think to yourself, if I look back on my life, if I look back on my life, what is it that I thought to myself, oh, I didn't have time for that. Or I couldn't do it. You we've all heard that, you know, what do you want on your tombstone? However, that works. But I find that everybody, I know, think it has a burning need to be doing something useful in their lives. It's not just mission driven. It absolutely. It's a purpose. It's a connecting with, with connecting with people who are helping to move the world forward. And I just stopped. And I said, even in a business context, I say, you know, now it's time. We're kind of out of time. Get on with it, >>Please. The clock is ticking. Well, Jeff Jones was talking about the asteroid thing to geospatial smart geeky conversation. But the key thing out of that was better focus of finite resources. And that really comes down to the fundamental better decision-making. I mean, we, my wife says, so our kids will make better decisions. I mean, that's a mother talking to the kids, but that's our life now. So like, if we can make better decisions, that ultimately is the big data opportunity from social change to play to business. >>And then the second question absolutely, absolutely agree. Everything you said. I, the next big question I asked is what are you doing to improve the world? Now? I would say 50% of the people I say, just give me this completely deer in the headlights. Look, what do you mean to save the world or to improve the world, to change world? However you want to frame that. But I haven't met anybody in years that isn't interested in truly contributing, leaving the world a better place than they came into. And that's no matter what their, their demographic makeup is. That's no matter the community they live in, no matter what they're doing, people have a fundamental desire to do better. And so I asked that of every business person, every corporation I work with. And that's one of the things I love about this whole idea of, you know, building a smarter planet that should tie to every single thing we do. And, and when we lose sight of that, we see that, no, I think >>This is a really great conversation to have because it's, it's something that's emerging. And, you know, again, there's some obvious examples, oh, pebble watch crowdfunding. But if you look at really impactful things like open source software, you are seeing the playbook. I mean, the playbook is, you know, people can participate at any level. So the, the fear of getting this kind of group going is that I'm too busy or, you know, you can, the contribution doesn't have to be game changing for an individual could be one small piece of the puzzle. It could be small contribution. Someone might do more heavy lifting than the other. That's an open source concept. We've seen that work huge. A lot of leverage, a lot of participation. Um, so I think that's something that I really haven't seen get applied to at a large scale. I mean, you see the protest in Hong Kong are interesting. That's an indicator. What does that mean? Right. So what's your take on all? What do you think needs to happen to get more people tied into these shared missions? >>It's a little little over there off >>The ranch. A little bit more honesty. More honesty. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not, not something that we talk about these sorts of events is that I I've gotten to the point where I do these large talks in front of thousands of people. And I ask everybody to turn to the person next to them and introduce themselves, honestly, like, why are you here? And why do you care? We've all gotten so wrapped up in the >>Who we are as well. And that's why I say, I love the idea of you being >>A social media guru for Halloween. It's just become, so it's so about the role that we've lost the connection with our humanity. And so I just, I asked people just to step back. So it's as simple. So yeah, I am all for the large initiatives. >>Yes. Self-aware is a really interesting concept. And that really what you're talking about here is, I mean, I make fun of myself. I put that out there. Probably gonna get some hate mail for that tweet, but no, it is what it is. I mean, I'm making fun of myself and us because we have to, because it's really not moving fast enough in the writer in my mind, at least I think, I mean, I think social media is a real, real game changer. I'm pro pro social media, but I mean, come on, if you can't make fun of yourself then, >>But what is social media do you mean? What is our untapped desire that why we're all participating in social media, where we've missed the opportunity for all these years to be human in everything that we're doing? Yeah. I mean, the idea that you can be, you know, wherever you are and be able to reach the people who have answers to be able to help you make better decisions is something that we've had that desire for a very long time. We've just been, not able to do that for so long that it's now it's time we get on >>With that. I would do the cube to Dave and I talk all the time. We want to broadcast out the data because I think people want to be part of something. And I think at the end of the day, it's human psychology is that being part of something makes psychology of the soul work better. It's like, okay, I want to be part of a group. I want to belong. It's a yearning, it's a tribe. Whatever that kind of collective group is, whether you know, the clown or the, or the guru or whatever, I think that's a people are yearning for that collectiveness of Griff groups. And I think the data gap is gravity. Like how do you a joke? It could be a serious conversation. It could be something provocative. I think content is a nice piece of gravity to kind of bring people together versus, you know, tweeting, Hey, look, how big I am. I got a zillion followers. >>Okay. So let's back up though. So content, so we can talk about the, the, the, the, the concept that has content. That's a lovely thing to do at a data conference, talking about the content it's about things we care about. That's what content is. So if we take that a step further and we actually extrapolate and say, how does this impact me? It's not because it's content it's because we're talking about topics that matter to each of us. And so the more we get back to that sort of conversation, the more we get back to that sort of point, I think we have a bigger opportunity to have conversations that matter and not be able to be. We are wasting our time doing the silly stuff. >>Okay. I'm getting the hook here, Marcia conversations that matter. That's really what it's all about. Changing the world. Thanks for calling the cube. Great to see you again. And, uh, we'll be right back after this short break live in Las Vegas date, you continues wall-to-wall coverage here, inside the cube, inside the digital experience in psycho with IBM social lounge. We right back after this short break,

okay we're back here live at IBM information on demand this is the cube our flagship program would go out to the advanced extracted signal from the noise this is SiliconANGLE and booking bonds production exclusive coverage of information on demand we have a crowd chatting on right now go to crouch at net / IBM iod this is a chat web app mobile version coming so I saw the complaints earlier be part of the conversation to log in and share your opinion with us ask questions a lot of folks on there right now great engagements with all that all the comments go to the public timeline of LinkedIn or Twitter wherever you sign in on to the hashtag IBM iod we'll be watching that I'm John Furyk gentleman my coach Dave vellante and we have Marsha Connor on who's the principle of sense of I grew she's also an author and she writes about the topic welcome to the queue thank you glad to be here so what is social business I mean you know we love we love talking about social business but it's kind of like you had this term web 2.0 which is everyone argued about you had big data which everyone kind of argued about which actually Israel 30 it's a real market social business which is kind of an elusive term what the hell does it mean is that Twitter or Facebook is it social media consultants is the real value there since this is the kind of question that everyone's talking about and we're talking about so what's your take on that >> my take is very simple for way too many years decades when people go to work they have to leave their personality their heart their cares their relationships in the car or in the subway or however they got to work that day and social business is really the first opportunity we have to be human beings at work we're allowed to actually talk about the things we care about to be able to bring our interests and our passions into the conversation to be real trustworthy people and what happens as a result of that is that for the first time ever there is an acceleration in the workplace because people can actually be their full selves it seems so simple only because the the backlash or the way that we have worked for so long has been so strong and so overpowering that we almost equates not being human with what business is so the idea of social and business being together it seems a little off we assume that business is human is inhuman but the idea of bringing them together is a huge step in the right direction and it opens up the possibility of actually doing great things >> there should be some anti social >> Jeff chick just say we maybe software in commenting about it's almost too social right now people need to kind of bring that personality to work so it's very interesting day what's your take on this I mean you're an analyst you look at the market is social business really mean what's your take on that yeah I think it slowly rabbids to me it's just it's second nature right i mean i remember the conversations not that long ago it's probably 2006-2007 what's the ROI on social media and do we really want to apply it to business and then so what happened was people just did it right and when they did it they said this surely works and we're getting productivity gains and people are happier and it's just a sort of a natural progression of what we're doing in our everyday lives so I just think to me the real opportunity is now okay what's the future what can you do with all this data were collecting and how can you actually affect you know changes within organizations and feedback to people and power them in different ways so that's kind of you know what I think about it I mean does that make sense to you >> it does actually I take the almost opposite view though it's not that they're in fighting with one another but the idea is that we need to figure out what we need to remove not add so it's not that we have all this new data and we can actually be doing more stuff but the question becomes for me and their organizations that I work with this what can we remove what are the policies that the nonsense that happens in work every single day that shouldn't be there is only there because we don't have a better way a more trustworthy more human way of actually working together so it's incredibly liberating or incredibly open from our perspective simply because it's it's less >> processes you haven't evolved to adopt >> so you're saying the business ooh the permeation of social networking within organizations that's not true for >> all organizations right i mean when >> they're starting with a green field the >> business processes are very social right >> about 70 people though and all of a sudden somebody says we need an HR department we need that the number was 50 >> 70 actually well especially for organizations that have aspirations of growing very very large and they get to this point where they believe that they have to put these things in place because there's this expectation that business means heavy process organized codified and I'm not saying that there aren't some benefits of actually having some order amid the chaos there's absolutely benefit there but we need to be thinking about what is needed at human scale versus what is the building or the organization itself need to be maintained to keep going >> saying if they take a small startup that >> so you're very social they've got social tools in place as they grow your day they muck it up just that what you see >> that is what I'm saying one of my clients a number of years ago I pulled me well actually I overheard this and then I had a conversation with him off line he pulled me aside who said you know what you really do is you make work not suck and he said it so candidly and it's a leader in a very large corporation I thought to myself wait a minute I had never really thought about it that way but for the large part that's people in the organization's feel like the amount of time that each of us spend on actually just maintaining the organization it's time that we could be using for far better things and so if we can start moving away from that maintaining of the organizational rigor we can actually start using that in those ingenious skills back to what we're doing >> example i was using about the use of the >> so the startup of the green sheet of paper the better example is the big company that you're sort of overlaying these social processes on top of how are you helping them sort of break the old habits maybe >> talk about what they should be doing >> yeah well the most specific thing I do is I very rigorously scalpel like actually organizations tell me of going in and identify one of the things keeping people from being able to do work that they were hired to do when's the last time you hired an idiot when I >> asked that question >> question we were just talking about I >> I won't answer that >> I ask that question actually very often is sometimes actually just speaking to a very large group and somebody always gonna raise their hand there's time the story and that's a little uncomfortable at times but the reality is we hire the best and brightest people that we know we try to find great people but something happens about two and a half weeks in all of a sudden they just get stupid right all of a sudden they can't do whatever it is >> very social they don't blame yourselves someone else I didn't I didn't improve that guy but let's not over though but some finish the story here because you're basically saying we inject stupidity into the system it's generally >> Yes we inject the stupidity in but we put them in cages in large part we ask people to say leave a large part of who they are what they're capable of doing somewhere else and so what happens is the longer you work for an organization the more likely you are to be incredibly invested in your community you either work at the Boy Scouts or or you you know you lead a program inside of your community to do better food services a well we have we find consistently is the more you feel like you've been stuffed into a desk drawer the more likely you are to still bring those capabilities to some other part of your life that's just ridiculous don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of people doing great things in our communities but it's really sad to me to understand that we can't bring those same capabilities that same ingenuity into the workplace where people were hired to actually share those gifts >> okay so so but so you go with the scalpel okay oh let me tell you a policy manual how do you not cut to the bone sami do you absolutely there are you not cut into muscle well such an example yeah that would help us I'd say most organizations have no idea where that muscle on that bone is it i mean that's actually a great question so so it at a more abstract level let me just say that there's i have been handed paper-based read notebooks from some of the world's largest organizations where you are going page by page by page of the policies the procedures and sometimes those are handed out in the new employee orientation other times that they're just assumed where people have to actually to start learning from you know social learning from the people around them as to what's the appropriate thing or what's an inappropriate thing to be doing and if you start actually looking at those you discover time and again that those policies those guidelines this what is establishing the culture are largely based on one person doing something really stupid and that person probably especially given a social business world probably wouldn't have done it a second time in this new environment but in this particular case they did that and all of a sudden we had to actually like in a community after a wreck now a stop sign are you had to you know put up a light because you hate had the lawyers be involved in this there's an incredibly yeah covering your ass you're overreacting simply because we haven't had better processes in the past one of the things we know for example of social tools is that when somebody says something stupid their co-workers almost always rise up and say that's not right anymore that's incorrect or here's a better way to do it the only thing worse than people saying dumb things work is people believing dumb things work and with these tools we all of a sudden have the opportunity to correct those things where people do smart things again so from a scalpel like perspective it's looking at what are the underpinnings of our work what are the things that are controlling how we work not only just the processes but the behaviors that are there and to actually look through them systematically and to remove everything that's there then the next step is really talking with people and being able to prove to them that when they work in different sorts of ways that they will be treated in different sorts of ways and frankly that becomes a harder exercise the larger the corporation >> chat from grant case how does an >> so question from our crowd organization start that journey especially in a firm like financial services where that might already be part of the culture >> is always part of the culture you advances in financial services I work with a very large business the business ensure for example and what we found is that when they start introducing social tools into the workplace they weren't so worried that people are going to say dumb things they were more worried that their employees were like cats under the stairs that nobody would say anything because they were so terrified of what would happen as a result of them saying that and so we had to do is are introducing into the culture of that organization processes that would say we care about what you think we had a woman for example say that when we went to her and we've been told that she would not participate in something like this when we went to her she said you know I've been putting in my desk drawers literally for over 20 years all the cool things I've wanted to do in this organization and you're telling me i can now blog about those things or i can actually put them in a micro and and we said yes and says well i really don't believe you so it wasn't even mad saying we can do it but well I get in trouble you know I get in trouble and I not even get troubled by the big police but just well I get you know looks from my peers and so we actually started giving her examples of some of her peers and some of her colleagues who were doing different sorts of things in her being able to build trust that this was a workable system >> does crowdsourcing just Twitter does a success of Facebook and LinkedIn the social networks nicely the rise of the hashtag which has become a great waited for people to dial into folksonomies of groups or active conversations does that change and give people more of a it removed some dissidents if you will about okay it's okay to be public does that change the game a little bit on social software is it validated or just a scare people further into the into their caves we see on crowd chatter there's more anonymous viewers that happy boo actually sign in it has become kind of like an arena we mentioned sometimes it's like gladiator the thought leaders battling it out for you know we seen this on forums right higher see chat rooms you know so people just want to watch yeah >> so what you're what you've done though is reduce this down to one personality type and the reality is that we have have extroverts and introverts in our workplace we have people who are comfortable talking in public and those who aren't and so the simple introduction of online tools brings to our workplaces a way for people who are uncomfortable sharing to do that with a little bit more anonymity and to have a lot more comfort and being able to do that they may not want actually look people in the eye when they say these things but it doesn't mean they don't have valuable things to say I was asked by a journalist a number of years ago if I believe that the introduction of social tools would all of a sudden mean the end of meetings in the workplace and I said absolutely not but what you're now going to hear is the voice of people who never spoke up at meetings and to actually have a well-rounded workforce you need to have the voice of all those brilliant people you hired >> wait a moment yes I think I said all the forecast for cars was limited because they didn't people think enough chauffeurs to drive them you know nobody will buy them still is gonna bite it's a big barrier small market it's not enough show first is a wreck yeah >> but if we can actually provide a venue for everybody to be able to contribute at work one that's either in person or online we're just opening up the possibility of who could >> okay so what's the craziest thing you've seen both on two spectrums with social business successful crazy and crazy good meaning kind of like Anna Steve Jobs craziness way to a crazy fail you have to name names he just can talk about the use cases I mean by that or you can talk about the names if you want to the appoint people out crazy good wow they really levered all the aspects of the data they they were innovative just or lucky or two they put a lot of money into it and it could failed miserably yeah okay I think I can come up with two I'm not so sure and the crazy like in woohoo were in Vegas kind of crazy example though give me a few minutes wrapping up with that one okay though I will say that in a large financial services organization that the Vice President of Human Resources i actually have photos of her going around to every single cube on her floor and taking person and taking photos of each employee for their personal profiles because people are so terrified of actually even doing taking that step that she walked around the floor of her building and took pictures of every single person and that may not see a saying some crazy in Las Vegas sense but it was pretty radical for her to be doing that but it showed her commitment to be able to do this so let me give you a different example electronics firm we're going through I'm so a large global not going to name names but you can probably actually make some guesses we're going through some horrible financial problems and it was just a right around the time they introduced social business tools into their workforce and when they did that the the pretty much the person who is supporting that initiative would send out emails to move people toward working in a social way at he would send out emails that would be fairly scandalous actually and they would say things like it's about to get on the press that we were about to lose dot dot dot at all his email would say and then there was a link that they had to actually go into the social system to be able to learn the rest of the things he not only had a blast actually eliminating the whole lot of link faded the entire over a hundred thousand personal work for that's good pageviews assassin twitter / ma been going on to in a matter of days they had pretty much converted the entire organization to be using these tools and as a result of that they believe that they actually didn't have all the problems they would have had had they not done this because for the first time ever people weren't just sitting behind their desks and being terrified for their lives going back to your crowdsource point they were there together and they actually could talk about what's going on they created what we call rumor central which is a practice that I bring into many organizations they actually had a group within the organization that anybody could ask anything they could actually ask the question what is the rumor you know they could say here's the rumor I've heard how accurate is it and then somebody in the organization would actually be there to answer that and be able to correct that and be able to fix that and it was a beautiful example of how that works >> from the crowd chat along the line of >> we had a question coming question we just had to run the people extroverts and introverts so the question is what is the value of a lurker in social business is there one well if it's a person kind of hanging around question was that that's a great question oh yeah >> I thought you're muttering under your breath like a lurker okay the problem with workers he said she's yelling in the cheap seats what we know about lurkers is that traditionally they are people who wouldn't raise their voice in a meeting that they are also somebody who is just going to you know sit and listen but what happens is it that person then goes to the restroom or goes to the cafeteria or actually even on the bus that night or in their community and they talk about what they've learned so the idea of measuring people as lurkers or participants is a very shallow way of looking at it because it only means that the value is in the conversation of their having at that time or that they didn't comment or they didn't contribute that that is what provides value it's a skewed perspective on engagement it's a cute perspective of what brings value to the organization if they can be listening which is a truly an untapped skill and most of our workforces that they can be listening and then they can actually be thinking also a crazy idea and actually then be able to figure out what they are doing and then be able to do that all the value there but I'm I actually am a little bit weary sometimes when I see the people who are commenting all the time >> it's like lurker so in social context if you can see the participation if someone's just just online with an online button you don't even know if they're listening right so I think that's I think that's the key point if they're listening and they're active that's an interesting data point so like one things that Dave and I look at and lurkers is are they in context to the conversation and are they active so getting that active data is interesting in context to what's being measured so if we look at a cluster of a crowd like a crowdsource crouched at hey if someone's actively talking they're in in the in context >> I still think that's an extroverted way of looking at it I still think it's a way of saying that that engagement is only by hearing or seeing their voice so let me give you the example so I work with a large an organization the intelligence community I'll leave it at that and one of the things that they track is where people actually look online and as a result of that they're actually able to follow the thread from the first thing that they looked at what do they look at next and they have and are able to establish breadcrumbs as to what someone looked at first and then what they looked at next and then what they did after that and what happened is along that whole continuum somebody eventually at some point in time will do sort of the equivalent of a like or they'll add a comment somewhere along that path but then if you go in and you were looking at that first document and you then get to see sort of like amazon recommends other books you can then say other people who looked at this document looked at these things next now that first person may have not commented for a very long time if ever but the value to the other people in that organization by understanding the other amazing and wonderful and helpful or not helpful things they saw afterwards brought incredible value to the organization and that was a a passive way of actually sharing and helping and narrowing down and helping people make better decisions but it was by no means the level of active engagements that so often we are looking at as the only measure of value in the organization Marcia we got cut on time here our next guest but amazing conversation folks go see her blog guys awesome thanks for the comment we'd go another hour okay but they'll give you the final word what is just share with the folks out there your view of the future next couple years what's going to come around the corner connect the dots what do you see happening is going to be an implosion the kind of Biggs is going to be more growth what's going to happen what do you think is going to how is this industry industry how is social business going to shape up >> well I'm if we're talking about the next few years I think that we are all in for a big wake-up call not only are we starting to see the structures and the systems around us failing from my government and economy all sorts of different ways a perspective but if we look at epochs of history this happens consistently and we're about the end of this particular epoch and I say that not as a doom and gloom er at all but to say that I believe for the first time we have the tools and technologies to be able to do something significant to be actually be able to rewrite how organizations work what work means how human beings get to interact to be able to make change in the world that has been cordoned off for way too long and so as these systems the systems that aren't workings are falling away we have the opportunity to actually be able to lean in to be able to live in and to be able to say I want to be a human being 24 hours a day I don't want to be a number or a chess pawn any longer and i am going to actually make a difference in the work i do and i'm going to do that throughout my day every day so i'm i'm incredibly excited about the prospect of what we can do it requires us all to actually look inside figure out who we are figure out what we want to do and actually be able to go do that social destruction of old with new new >> humanization of the crowd and waves of innovations we always say tave you don't get out in front of you become driftwood and there will be some destruction in business models we love it this is social business this is the cube exclusive coverage from information on demand ibm's conference here in Las Vegas is the cube we write back with our next guest right thank you the cube