>> Voiceover: Live, from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE, covering CITRIX Synergy, Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by: CITRIX. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend coming to you live from Atlanta Georgia, our first day of coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith and I are very pleased to welcome you to theCUBE. For the first time, Bob O'Donnell, the founder and president of Technalysis. Bob, it's great to have you on theCUBE. >> Thank you. Great to be here I really appreciate it. It's my first chance to do theCUBE. It's exciting. >> We're so excited because you are no stranger to TV. Bloomberg, CNN, CNBC, Squawk Box, now theCUBE! >> Bob: And the now theCUBE! >> Keith: Most importantly- >> Bob: It completes the circle. >> He's a friend of Leo Laporte, which makes him a super star. >> All: (laughing) >> Well there you go. >> We're sitting in the presence of greatness. >> Oh, I don't know about that. But anyway, no, it's a pleasure to be here and it's nice to chat with you guys. It's a very interesting time that we're in. I mean, when we think about what's happening in the world. For years we've seen this move to cloud-based computing, and SaaS, and everything else. And everybody's excited about all of this stuff, and there's all these tools. And then on top of that, we thought, we have all these devices, right? We've got this amazing range of different devices we can use. But ironically, what it is, is we're in a state of too much of a good thing. It's too much. Even though if you think about it, you'd say, "Well, objectively, there's so much that "we could potentially do here. "I mean, we've got these tools that can do "this and this and this." But all of a sudden, "Well, except I got this one and this one, and this one. "And oh, by the way, if I want to send a message, "I can send it five different ways to Sunday, "and therefore if I want to read a message, "I have to be able to read it "five different ways from Sunday." And so, the challenge that you face is, and Citrix talked about it, I thought, quite nicely in their keynote this morning, is people get overwhelmed. And they just can't get productive with what they're trying to do. And so, what you need to do it figure out ways to turn that chaos into structure and order. And that's what they're trying to do with the workspace. And it looks pretty cool. >> Yeah, one of the offline conversations I had was you get all these tools. It's like somebody took a box of 10,000 Legos and just jumped it on your desk and said, "Build a masterpiece." And what I head this morning was the equivalent of what was like a Star Wars kid of like, "This is what you can build. Here's the directions, "and now you can start to deviate and customize it "for your environment." So one of the things that I'd love to get your input on is this concept of AI ML. This ideal of taking tasks and automating them. It's nothing new. We've tried this with macros and other areas. But the thing that was missing was, these tools were pretty dumb. >> Bob: Right. So the promise of ML AI should make these tools become real. What's your impression of the state of the technology versus what was presented today. >> Well, look, we're in very early days of AI and ML. There are some fascinating things out there. There's a lot of the high profile things that we hear about. The ImageNet and the ability to recognize every kind of dog known to mankind, and all the demos we've all seen at every other trade show. It really is, the fascinating part, exactly, to your point, is that the goal with AI and machine learning is to actually makes things understand. And it's fascinating because... I'll take a bit of a sidetrack but bring it back. When devices started to be able to recognize our words, we assumed, because we're human beings, that they recognized what we meant. But, no. There's a big jump between the words that you can transcribe, and what you actually mean. >> Yeah. That context. >> Context is everything. And context is something that, again as human beings, we take it for granted. But you can't take that for granted when it comes to technology and products. So, the beauty of AI as it starts to get deployed is how do we get the context around what it is that we're trying to do, what we meant to say. Of course, we all want that in real life: "What I meant to say was..." But, "what I meant to do was this." Or, "the task I want to do is that." So, taking that back to what Citrix is talking about is there are a lot of rote procedural things that people do in most organizations. And they gave the classic examples of proving the expense reports and this and that. So, clearly, some of those things they can pre-build. The micro apps, in a lot of ways, they really are macros. It's kind of a fancy macro. And that's fine, but the question is are they smart enough to kind of deviate, "Oh, well, there's a conditional branch "that it automatically builds in a macro "that I didn't have to think about "because it realizes in the context of what I'm doing "that it means something else." Or something like that. >> At the end of the day, I want to get the account balance, however that translates. As opposed to: take this column from row A and put it in row B. No, sometimes row A won't be the correct destination. I want the account balance. >> Right, right. >> And the other truth of the matter is we're still getting used to actually talking to our devices. We do that at home to some degree for people who have Alexas, unless they've decided to stop recording everything, and then that's a whole different subject. But, at work we don't. Interestingly, I remember when I first saw Cortana, for example, on a Windows machine. I thought, in a weird way, Cortana makes more sense because I should want... But it hasn't really happened. It hasn't played out. So there's some level of discomfort of talking to our devices and recognizing these things. So, I think there are cultural issues you still have to overcome. There are physical issues in the workplace, now. Now, when you have these open office environments, which doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that was going to be a disaster. Whoever thought that was smart, man, let's take a look at where their degree came from. But that's the reality that people are in. So, you've got the physical environment challenges. You've got the cultural "how do I work with this?" environment. And then just starting to realize what it can actually do. And then, of course, you have the problem that it didn't recognize what it actually said. That's something stupid, and the original Siri problems that we all had. But, all of these things tie together because they're all different takes on what machine learning has the potential to do and what we think it should do, and what it can actually do. The one thing I will say is as we head towards 2020, I think we're going to start to finally see some of these things do what we thought they were going to do. They're going to start to have the context. They're going to start to have the intelligence. So, in the work space, it's going to have the ability to know what I mean when I say, "I need the account balance." Or, "I need to know where in the sales pipeline "this particular project is," or whatever task it is that I've got to deal with. And so, understanding that and then building the plumbing to do that is critical. One of the interesting things, if you look at what Citrix does, they're really all about plumbing. They have this ability to pull together all these different elements. From the beginning, what we started talking about. All these different applications over different types of network speeds and connections and make them all work. And yet, they present this very simplified, beautiful, nice little, you're like, "oh, this is great!" But, man, buried beneath there is a lot of stuff. And that's, to give them credit, that's what they're really good at doing. And companies now, the challenge is, a lot of companies have really old applications that they've got to kind of modernize in some way shape or form. And some of them are doing it on their own. They're doing the containerization and all the things we hear about as well. Some of them are wrapping them. Citrix, some of their original business, XenApp, was about app virtualization. Taking an old app and giving access in a modern way. So, again, it's doing that, but the other problem you have to bear in mind, excuse me, is that every company has a different combination of apps. They said 500 apps is normal. A lot of companies have more than that. >> Keith: Mhm. (affirmative) >> The problem is, it's not the same five hundred apps. This company has this set of 500 apps. This company has this set of 500 apps. This company has this set of 500 apps, and maybe 150 of them overlap, which means the long tail of 350 per company has to be dealt with and figured out. And that's, again, those are the problems that they're trying to solve and bring in to a unified environment. >> And also manage these growing expectations that all of us that are workers have from the consumer side of our lives. You mentioned Alexa and Siri, and we have these growing experiences that whether I'm talking to a device or I'm going on Amazon, I want it to know what I want. Don't show me something I've already purchased. And we have these expectations as humans and consumers that we want the apps when we get to work to understand the context and of course, we're asking a lot. In your opinion, where is Citrix in starting to help manage, helping their customers, rather, manage those growing expectations? >> I think Citrix has done a lot in that area. Even many, many years ago they were the first to come up with the notion of an enterprise app store. In the early days of the app store, they came out with this concept of, "We want to do an enterprise equivalent of that." When I download an app that I need to install on a work PC, make it easy to get at. So, from way back when they've been building on that. And then, the examples they gave today, the notification from the airline that your flight has changed, or whatever. Those are all the experiences that we're now used to thanks to cloud-based services. And their point is like, "Hey, why shouldn't we "have that at work, as well?" And so that's exactly what they're trying to work towards, is that notion of cloud-based notifications and services, and things, but related to the specific tasks I have to do. Because at the end of the day, they want to drive productivity. Because we all waste stupid amounts of time, and truth be told, the bigger the company you're at, the more time you waste because of just keeping up. I used to work at a big research firm of 1200 people, and literally half my day, every day, was just procedural stuff. I didn't actually work on the stuff that I thought I was hired to do, except for maybe half the day. And with a lot of people, that's very common. So, anything that can be done to reduce that and allow people to get through the procedural stuff a little bit more efficiently, and then actually let them do the work that they were hired to do and that they'd like to do, and oh, by the way, gives them more satisfaction. All of these things tie together. People tend to say, "Oh well, you know, "that's nice to do, this consumerization of IT, "that's nice." It's not just nice. It's actually practical. It's actually a real productivity enhancing capability. And I think Citrix has done an excellent job of driving that message. It's hard to to do because, again, the complexity of the plumbing necessary is super difficult. But their head and their heart are in the right place in terms of trying to achieve that. >> Well, it sounds absolutely like not a "nice to have," but business-critical. One of the stats that David Henshall, their CEO, said this morning, and Keith's been mentioning a number of times, is that he said there's 7 trillion dollars wasted on output because employees are not able to get to their functions that they were hired for in a timely manner. >> Right. >> So, there's a huge addressable market there of opportunity but also the consumerization that's personalization expectation is huge to not just making me, Lisa Martin, as an employee happy, but my business's customers that I'm dealing with. I think of a sales person, or even a call center support person. If they don't have access to that information, "She already called in about this problem 'with her cable ISP," that person is going to go turn, and go find another option that's going to fulfill their needs much better. >> That's absolutely right. And that was the interesting point that they made. And that's what they're trying to do with the intelligent work space is to move beyond just providing these apps, but actually personalizing it to each individual and being able to say, "All right, each of us are going to have a workspace." Sort of, it looks kind of like a news feed kind of a thing. Each one is going to be different though, based upon, obviously, the different tasks that we do, the order with which we do them, the manner with which we do them." So it does get personalized. The notifications, you know, I may want certain notifications that you don't really care about as much. But that's fine. We can each create that level of personalization and customization. And again, what Citrix is trying to do, and it was a key point that P.J. made, is, "Look, we're not just building an application. "We're building a platform." And that's... The significance of that is big. And remember, he came from Microsoft. He worked on Windows. He worked on Office. So, he's got a long history of working on building platform based tools that have tools that you can build on. That have APIs and ways for other people to add to. So, all of those are critical parts of how they tell that story, and how they get people enthralled enough to say, "Hey, I'm going to make the commitment to do it." Because look, it's a lot of work. Let's not kid ourselves. If I'm not a Citrix shop, but I go, "Damn, that's cool!" There's a fair amount of effort to make all this stuff actually happen. So, it's a commitment. But, once they get them hooked it's a pretty sticky type of environment. Especially as they continue to deliver value and personalization and customization. That, at the end of the day, drives productivity. And that's a pretty straight forward message: "Hey, we can save your workers time "and make them happier." Well, who doesn't want that, right? >> So, let's talk about engaging your customers. Like, I can look at this, and I can easily, say I can come to a conference like this and say, "Wow, I really want the output. I don't want "any of that employee experience stuff. "That stuff just sounds hard, "but the output I definitely want." Talk to me about the evolution of your customers as you walk them through if you want the output, here's what you have to do. And talk to me about, specifically, the success stories of where they didn't get it, and then after you've engaged them, they got it. >> Well, there's so many different variations out there. But, at the end of the day, every company out there is dealing with the fact that they have workers that work in a lot of places on a lot of devices and they have to allow them to get stuff done. And so, it's about how much are they willing to do to make that happen? But there's the psychology of it. There is the whole, "how much of this am I willing to outsource?" Versus, "I really want to keep it inside." So, it depends on the industry and the level of if they are a regulated industry, and all those things have an enormous impact on how they do this. But, if you think back, Citrix's original business was, a lot of it, was again, around desktop virtualization, and actually trying to get really old school stuff, I'm taking mainframe green screen stuff, to actually run on an old Windows PC. And that was kind of a lot of what they did, initially. And then, of course, they've built on from there. So, all along the way, you see different organizations. Citrix has been thought of more as more of the old school kind of enterprise software. Along with an SAP or an Oracle so something like that. I think they've done a particularly good job of being cloud native, cloud aware, and working with these cloud-based tools. Because early on, when we think about what happened with SaaS applications, people thought that was going to dramatically change how anybody did software. And it did, but not in the way people expected. So, I'm trying to get an answer, specifically, to your question, but I think what it is is what they're doing, and what companies who deploy it find is that they can take even these completely different types of software and services, and ServiceNow, and Salesforce, and Workday, and all these kinds of things that are dramatically different, but still, again, have overlapping functionality if I use all of them, and conflict or counteract or interact, or need to interact with other tools I already have that I'm working to change. So, again, what I think that what Citrix has done a good job is they're able to look at the wide range of stuff that people have in that 500 group of apps, or whatever it is, and be able to say, "All right, ten of those are cloud-based services. "But we've got 490 other ones we've got to deal with." And they have different levels of technologies to deal with those. So, what companies can do is they can also pick and choose. They can say, "Look, we're not going to get all 500 apps in our workspace." Maybe they just decide, "But we're going to do these twelve, "five of which are SaaS-based, "and then we've got a couple other critical ones "that we have to do, and that hits 80% of our workers." And they can tackle it that way. So, the bottom line is companies who... Look, it's a big investment up front. So the process is you have to psychologically say, "I'm willing to make an investment in," not obviously, just now, but their roadmap. What they're doing. What they're talking about. That's why they talk a lot about the future because if I buy into this ecosystem, I'm committed. Right? Again, I talking about that earlier: The stickiness question. So, companies who are doing this kind of thing, companies who are trying to make sense of all these applications have to be willing to make those big investments. It used to be, it used to have a huge Citrix server farms, as well. Obviously, with the development of the Cloud and Citrix Cloud, that's all changed. But, it's still a big investment, and they have to work to figure out ways to do this. And if they do, to finally get to, you know, they do see productivity savings. I mean, Citrix is, I don't remember the numbers, but they can qualify actual time saved when their solutions are installed, and that's the benefits that these companies get. So, they have to measure how much is my employee time worth versus the cost of getting these things deployed? >> Well, and I think that's going to be a differentiator for them. I wish we had more time because we could keep talking to you for a long time, but you got to add theCUBE to your list of TV: Bloomberg, CNBC, >> Bob: It's all there. Hey, I'm excited. >> Squawk Box, Now, theCUBE. Bob, it has been such a pleasure to have you on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> We appreciate your time. >> Thanks so much. Appreciate being here, thank you. >> Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, live from CITRIX Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017 brought to you by Samsung. >> Okay, welcome back and we're live here in San Francisco for the Samsung Developer Conference, SDC2017. I'm John Furrier. This is The Cube's exclusive coverage, and I'm excited to have an amazing guest, Amanda Cooloong who's a chief storyteller, Women in Tech International, Tech TV, TechZula. She's been really a storyteller in digital for a long time. Great to have you on. Been following all your Twittersphere and your content. >> Thank you. >> You did some work with Leo Laporte, Jason Calcanis, both this week in tech's kind of version of the scene. >> Mm hm. >> What are you up to now? >> Well I am working very closely with Women in Technology International, WITI. It is the largest, oldest organization for women in tech. They have a huge summit that they put on in San Jose every year, and I'm sort of the class clown for that and emcee the conference and lead the charge there. >> Well certainly you know what's interesting you have kind of a cool vibe, you're a cool person, you know tech, you know cloud computing. >> Mm hm. >> You've been in inside baseball for the tech scene. >> Mm hm. >> But now the consumer market with digital. >> Yeah. >> Pretty powerful, I mean like finally us geeks now have a national and global stage to flex our geekness, so you see nerds- >> We're suddenly cool? >> Cool to be a geek and now you see well the programmer calls us over thank god. >> (laughs) Well is it? >> Well the bad side of it. The good side of the democratization is happening. >> Right. >> So now you have an augmented reality. So it's just some cool stuff happening. What are you most impressed with? >> What am I most impressed with? Well I love Blockchain. I've been involved with some of that for three or four years now. I actually had a podcast about Blockchain and Bitcoin. And I'm really excited about what that means for investment specifically and ICOs, Initial Coin Offerings. My friend Brock Pierce is a big, big figurehead with all of that, with Blockchain Capital. And I believe that, especially for women that are looking to get into investment and get back in the earlier stage of things, I think ICOs, Initial Coin Offerings, are a huge opportunity for them to really change up the venture world. >> So when you say ICOs, which we know a lot about 'cause we're doing one at SiliconANGLE the next couple quarters. >> Yeah. >> No rush to do it but we're going to use our own cryptocurrency. But those nuances, when you say investment do you mean as an alternative to venture capital investment or actually investing in, say, the currency itself? >> Both. But I think of it as a completely new way to invest in companies. And there are so many barriers especially for women in technology... Again, that's a big platform for me. To getting into that world that ICOs just are completely changing up the entire ecosystem there. >> Well we're seen a ton of stuff. You saw Lisa Fetterman was on earlier. >> Mm hm. >> She had a huge success with her Kickstarter. Now she's got some pretty glamorous products. The cooking thing is pretty sexy, right? >> Mm hm. >> That thing could go- >> Sous vide, even the term sous vide. I mean, it's so fresh (laughs) >> I would put money to that. I mean it's just so... But that's a good example of Kickstarter. When we look at some of the ICOs, a lot of people are raising some serious capital in utility and stock or securities. >> Mm hm. >> Although the regulations are a moving train. But on the utility side it's a no-brainer. There's some significant cash being raised. In some cases, five to 50 million plus in token sales. >> Mm hm. >> That's like Kickstarter on steroids. >> It really is, and some people are afraid of it. You know, some people are saying that's completely absurd. Why would you ever do that? I personally would say don't put all of your eggs in one basket either. We know that. There's volatility anywhere. But, again, I think it's opening a lot of doors and giving certain people opportunities that they didn't have before. >> So how is your Bitcoin position these days? >> I may have been an early investor in some Bitcoin. I may obsessively look at the value every 15 minutes or so. No, I am fortunate. I listened to my mentors, and luckily I love emerging tech, so I'm doing well in that regard. >> I saw a post on Facebook: If you just bought 10 in bitcoin and smoked weed and sat on the beach and clipped coupons all day and did nothing else, you'd be worth 20 million dollars. >> Let's just say I know people that have actually bought castles with it. I'm not joking. >> What I like about the crypto Boxchain side is that there's an early community growing. So what's your analysis, because a lot of people want to know, is it Silk Road guys? Are they bad actors? Bitcoin's the underbelly of the internet. Early adopter. >> Those stories were so funny at the beginning. I mean, I live in LA. Everyone loves the sensationalized story. And of course that existed with Bitcoin too, and yes, there was some truth to it. >> Oh of course there was. >> Yes, absolutely the Silk Road story was real. >> Anonymous and encrypted transactions. >> Oh yes. >> That's going to attract some honey to the bees. >> There's a reason why certain people can't come back into the country. Let's just leave it at that. However, we've also seen major financial institutions get onboard. You know, Fintech has exploded. There's a lot of legitimacy to Blockchain and the distributed ledger technology. >> It's one of the fastest growing products in the Linux Foundation, Hyperledger project- >> Yes. >> Which is just going gangbusters. IBM's behind it. >> Yep. >> So it's got that opensource vibe, I get that. But the community, talk about the community because there are people who are leading the community. You said you know a few of them. >> What's your take on the community? How big is it? It's emerging, obviously, it's growing. What's the protocol for new entrants coming in? What's the behavior norms? >> Sure. It's grown in leaps and bounds, I can say that. I mean, from the time I did my Bitcoin podcast a few years ago to now, back then it was very much the bro culture to a degree, a lot of libertarians (laughs), a lot of folks that couldn't come back in the country, to be quite honest. But there were certain people that came out of that movement though like Brock Pierce that really thought ahead to how do we legitimize this, how do we make sure that this is white knighted, so to speak. >> Yeah, well it's a revolutionary... It's fundamental. I had the founder of Alibaba Cloud on the record. Haven't published a video yet so this is exclusive material. He said, I asked him about Blockchain. He says it's fundamental to the internet. It is the internet. >> It is, mm hm. >> Just like TCP/IP was in the stack. >> Absolutely. >> He was adamant that this is not on top of the internet. It's fundamental to... He's talking about Blockchain. >> Yep. >> Absolutely 'cause it's supply chain, it's currency, it's a zillion things. >> It's not just coins. Everyone focused in on Bitcoin Bitcoin Bitcoin. It's a distributed ledger technology. So it goes hand in hand with the internet of things. So the two have become very much married in that regard. >> You know, all these guys I interview on The Cube over the years, and certainly I lived through it, talk about the waves, the PC wave. >> Mm hm. They talk about the client server wave. Client server essentially, it's not so much about the mini computers 'cause the mini computers were not the client server wave 'cause that was proprietary operating systems and proprietary hardware. >> Mm hm. >> HP. >> Right. >> What made client server was TCP/IP. That created Threecom, Cisco, interoperability. So that really was that second wave. People are comparing Blockchain to TCP/IP. >> I can see that. >> Dr. Wang from Alibaba Cloud. Other people are saying like the dot com bubble, euphoric excitement. >> Yeah. >> So that begs the question. Who can bring functionality... This is my thesis. I want to test it with you. >> Mm hm. >> Who can bring functionality and simplicity? Because all the successes in Web 1.0, was Yahoo a directory of links, simple, easy to use. Cisco Routers, connect your networks, it works. So simplicity and functionality seems to be the norm in the Blockchain world. >> Mm hm. >> What's your thoughts on that? Can you share your reaction to that? >> Simplicity and functionality, I mean, for me it's- >> In terms of the winners versus the losers 'cause that's what people want to know with Blockchain. Where's the scams and where the legit? >> Mm hm, well the scams are the people that came from the gaming side that had no real business expanding out the way that they did and everybody loses their coin. But we won't name names there. I think more- >> It's okay to name names. >> (laughs) But with functionality, I mean again, I keep going back to its marriage with IOT, you know, the ledger based technology and just being able to do anything transactional. That's the simplicity of it for me, the fact that it's opensource, the fact that, yeah, I think that's the core of it. >> So let's talk about Samsung. We're here's at the Samsung event. >> Sure. >> How do you see these guys? We were talking about Blockchain. It's kind of the next big wave coming. Obviously a lot of things underneath that, but above that you've got software machine learning, all the goodness of open source is growing exponentially. That wave is coming to exponential growth in opensource, code shipments, meaning more people using opensource, and things like Blockchain. How does that impact a Samsung, an Apple, an Amazon? >> Well I think opensource is necessary for IOT specifically. Obviously that would be shut down without that. I've been talking with a lot of the developers here, the Samsung-specific people saying what is it that's exciting you about this forward movement, like with the keynote this morning. What do we need? How do we move this entire industry forward with IOT? And they're excited about the platform that Samsung has announced this morning in terms of just the ubiquity of everything working together in comparison to, well, a lot of other... Sorry. >> So the crypto thing is also tying into that too. >> Yes. >> I was tying that with IOT because IOT has some security issues. >> Right. >> So we can argue maybe- >> Some security issues? (laughs) >> Well the surface area. So you know, the theme in the enterprise is, you know, cloud computing. There's no moat anymore, there's no firewall. >> Yeah. >> Perimiterless security. Perimiterless problems. It means the edge is a surface area, and we've seen these attacks coming. >> Right. >> That's a problem. >> Mm hm. >> So there's no silver bullet right now. >> Yeah. >> So Samsung probably is cagey right now on the data. >> Exactly. >> They've got some security products, but smarter things is their kind of pitch. >> And then everybody keeps saying well who owns the security piece, who's responsible for the security piece. I think that's a big question we're going to see popping up a lot because the security piece is going to be a very valuable piece to all of this, especially when you're looking at edge computing too and data being passed back and forth between the edge. I would rather see everything stay with just the edge devices, personally. >> Yeah, well it's easier to manage, why do you want to move data across the network? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Move compute it's more efficient. >> Yeah. >> So final take on augmented reality VR. >> Oh, okay. >> What's imploding? What's imploded? What's growing? What's rising? What's falling? >> Sure. >> We had a comment earlier, said VR 1.0 is over. >> It really is. I personally think AR is where it's at. I've watched a lot of things on the VR front and a lot of it was marketing speak. I think we need a bigger push on the hardware side for VR to work effectively too. We also need to look at the audience there. And a lot of people are complaining, well I don't just want to go disappear into a separate world. A lot of women, actually, are complaining about that side of it. But the AR side I think has way more application. >> Yeah, crawl, walk, run in virtual space, basically. >> Yeah, yeah. VR I think will still be a place, but I think AR is going to be a bigger explosion. >> One of the things we were talking about earlier was as folks have been through many waves you and I've seen, waves of innovation, Web 1.0, the early adopters were the adult industry with banners 'cause they were about making money. We saw this wave. We're seeing the Silk Roads and Blockchain. Arbitrage comes from usually bad actors and not usually desirable actors. >> Right. >> But one big indicator of the current user experience we're seeing is the gaming culture, right. >> Mm hm. >> Gaming right now seems to be the early adopter indicator of the major trend lines 'cause it's gamification, it's a little bit analog, multiplayer. >> Look at Unity. Unity has a huge presence here at SDC and especially on the VR front if you want to look at that. Unity's a huge player there. >> What are some of the things you see coming out of the gaming world? 'Cause we've seen virtual currencies, ICO, lot of storage, lot of dynamic, realtime. >> Yeah. Gaming mechanism too across the board always play into this too, but I think the big one is ICOs for me. That's the one I've been focusing on a lot, yeah. >> I'd like to follow up more with you on the ICO thing. We're doing a whole programming on that on November second, love to have you. >> Mm hm. Look at what Crystal Rose with Sensay's been doing. >> Who? >> Crystal Rose, Sensay, she's launched her own ICO called SENSE. >> SENSE. Great, looking forward to chatting more. >> Mm hm, out of LA. >> Final question for you for the folks not here. What's the vibe here? How would you describe SDC2017? >> I love that there's a great vibe of innovation. Honestly, I've been to some other stodgier conferences lately, and this one definitely has a nice playful, creative vibe. >> B2B is boring to boring. This is not- >> I know, you were talking about E2E, everything to everything. See, I was listening. >> You were. >> Everything to everything. Exciting to exciting. >> Exciting. >> See, I listened to that too. Yeah, I would say there's a lot of creativity here. There's a lot of side conversations happening. That's important. And I see a good balance of men and women, so that makes me happy. >> Well I'm excited from Vanessa for bringing on a great lineup, you included. >> Thank you. >> Great to meet you in person. Had a great conversation here inside The Cube. I'm John Furrier here, exclusive coverage of the SDC2017. We'll be back after this short break.