(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE's presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase: Data as Code. This is Season 2, Episode 2 of the ongoing SaaS covering exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem and we're going to talk about the future of enterprise data analytics. I'm your host, John Furrier and today we're joined by Gian Merlino CTO and co-founder of Imply.io. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Building analytics apps with Apache Druid and Imply is what the focus of this talk is and your company being showcased today. So thanks for coming on. You guys have been in the streaming data large scale for many, many years of pioneer going back. This past decade has been the key focus. Druid's unique position in that market has been key, you guys been empowering it. Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing over there at Imply. >> Yeah, for sure. So I guess to talk about Imply, I'll talk about Druid first. Imply is a open source based company and Apache Druid is the open source project that the Imply product's built around. So what Druid's all about is it's a database to power analytical applications. And there's a couple things I want to talk about there. The first off is, is why do we need that? And the second is why are we good at, and I'll just a little flavor of both. So why do we need database to power analytical apps? It's the same reason we need databases to power transactional apps. I mean, the requirements of these applications are different analytical applications, apps where you have tons of data coming in, you have lots of different people wanting to interact with that data, see what's happening both real time and historical. The requirements of that kind of application have sort of given rise to a new kind of database that Druid is one example of. There's others, of course, out there in both the open source and non open source world. And what makes Druid really good at it is, people often say what is Druid's big secret? How is it so good? Why is it so fast? And I never know what to say to that. I always sort of go to, well it's just getting all the little details right. It's a lot of pieces that individually need to be engineered, you build up software in layers, you build up a database in layers, just like any other piece of software. And to have really high performance and to do really well at a specific purpose, you kind of have to get each layer right and have each layer have as little overhead as possible. And so just a lot of kind of nitty gritty engineering work. >> What's interesting about the trends over the past 10 years in particular, maybe you can go back 10, 15 years is state of the art database was, stream a bunch of data put it into a pile, index it, interrogate it, get some reports, pretty basic stuff and then all of a sudden now you have with cloud, thousands of databases out there, potentially hundreds of databases living in the wild. So now data with Kafka and Kinesis, these kinds of technologies streaming data's happening in real time so you don't have time to put it in a pile or index it. You want real time analytics. And so perhaps whether they're mobile app, Instagrams of the world, this is now what people want in the enterprise. You guys are the heart of this. Can you talk about that dynamic of getting data quickly at scale? >> So our thinking is that actually both things matter. Realtime data matters but also historical context matters. And the best way to get historical context out of data is to put it in a pile, index it, so to speak, and then the best way to get realtime context to what's happening right now is to be able to operate on these streams. And so one of the things that we do in Druid, I wish I had more time to talk about it but one of the things that we do in Druid is we kind of integrate this real time processing and this historical processing. So we actually have a system that we call the historical system that does what you're saying, take all this data, put in a pile, index it for all your historical data. And we have a system that we call the realtime system that is pulling data in from things like Kafka, Kinesis, getting data pushed into it as the case may be. And this system is responsible for all the data that's recent, maybe the last hour or two of data will be handled by this system and then the older stuff handled by historical system. And our query layer blends these two together seamlessly so a user never needs to think about whether they're querying realtime data or historical data. It's presented as a blended view. >> It's interesting and you know a lot of the people just say, Hey, I don't really have the expertise, and now they're trying to learn it so their default was throw into a data lake. So that brings back that historical. So the rise of the data lake, you're seeing Databricks and others out there doing very well with the data lakes. How do you guys fit into that 'cause that makes it a lot of sense too cause that looks like historical information? >> So data lakes are great technology. We love that kind of stuff. I would say that a really popular pattern, with Druid there's actually two very popular patterns. One is, I would say streaming forward. So stream focus where you connect up to something like Kafka and you load data to stream and then we will actually take that data, we'll store all the historical data that came from the stream and instead of blend those two together. And another other pattern that's also very common is the data lake pattern. So you have a data lake and then you're sort of mirroring that data from the data lake into Druid. This is really common when you have a data lake that you want to be able to build an application on top of, you want to say I have this data in the data lake, I have my table, I want to build an application that has hundreds of people using it, that has really fast response time, that is always online. And so when I mirror that data into Druid and then build my app on top of that. >> Gian take me through the progression of the maturity cycle here. As you look back even a few years, the pioneers and the hardcore streaming data using data analytics at scale that you guys are doing with Druid was really a few percentage of the population doing that. And then as the hyperscale became mainstream, it's now in the enterprise, how stable is it? What's the current state of the art relative to the stability and adoption of the techniques that you guys are seeing? >> I think what we're seeing right now at this stage in the game, and this is something that we kind of see at the commercial side of Imply, what we're seeing at this stage of the game is that these kinds of realization that you actually can get a lot of value out of data by building interactive apps around it and by allowing people to kind of slice and dice it and play with it and just kind of getting out there to everybody, that there is a lot of value here and that it is actually very feasible to do with current technology. So I've been working on this problem, just in my own career for the past decade, 10 years ago where we were is even the most high tech of tech companies were like, well, I could sort of see the value. It seems like it might be difficult. And we're kind of getting from there to the high tech companies realizing that it is valuable and it is very doable. And I think that was something there was a tipping point that I saw a few years ago when these Druid and database like really started to blow up. And I think now we're seeing that beyond sort of the high tech companies, which is great to see. >> And a lot of people see the value of the data and they see the application as data as code means the application developers really want to have that functionality. Can you share the roadmap for the next 12 months for you guys on what's coming next? What's coming around the corner? >> Yeah, for sure. I mentioned during the Apache open source community, different products we're one member of that community, very prominent one but one member so I'll talk a bit about what we're doing for the Druid project as part of our effort to make Druid better and take it to the next level. And then I'll talk about some of the stuff we're doing on the, I guess, the Druid sort of commercial side. So on the Druid side, stuff that we're doing to make Druid better, take it to the next level, the big thing is something that we really started writing about a few weeks ago, the multi-stage query engine that we're working on, a new multi-stage query engine. If you're interested, the full details are on blog on our website and also on GitHub on Apache Druid GitHub, but short version is Druid's. We're sort of extending Druid's Query engine to support more and varied kinds of queries with a focus on sort of reporting queries, more complex queries. Druid's core query engine has classically been extremely good at doing rapid fire queries very quickly, so think thousands of queries per second where each query is maybe something that involves a filter in a group eye like a relatively straightforward query but we're just doing thousands of them constantly. Historically folks have not reached for technologies like Druid is, really complex and a thousand line sequel queries, complex supporting needs. Although people really do need to do both interactive stuff and complex stuff on the same dataset and so that's why we're building out these capabilities in Druid. And then on the implied commercial side, the big effort for this year is Polaris which is our cloud based Druid offering. >> Talk about the relationship between Druid and Imply? Share with the folks out there how that works. >> So Druid is, like I mentioned before, it's Apache Druid so it's a community based project. It's not a project that is owned by Imply, some open source projects are sort of owned or sponsored by a particular organization. Druid is not, Druid is an independent project. Imply is the biggest contributor to Druid. So the imply engineering team is contributing tons of stuff constantly and we're really putting a lot of the work in to improve Druid although it is a community effort. >> You guys are launching a new SaaS service on AWS. Can you tell me about what that's happening there, what it's all about? >> Yeah, so we actually launched that a couple weeks ago. It's called Polaris. It's very cool. So historically there's been two ways, you can either get started with Apache Druid, it's open source, you install it yourself, or you can get started with Imply Enterprise which is our enterprise offering. And these are the two ways you can get started historically. One of the issues of getting started with Apache Druid is that it is a very complicated distributed database. It's simple enough to run on a single server but once you want to scale things out, once you get all these things set up, you may want someone to take some of that operational burden off your hands. And on the Imply Enterprise side, it says right there in the name, it's enterprise product. It's something that may take a little bit of time to get started with. It's not something you can just roll up with a credit card and sign up for. So Polaris is really about of having a cloud product that's sort of designed to be really easy to get started with, really self-service that kind of stuff. So kind of providing a really nice getting started experience that does take that maintenance burden and operational burden away from you but is also sort of as easy to get started with as something that's database would be. >> So a more developer friendly than from an onboarding standpoint, classic. >> Exactly. Much more developer friendly is what we're going for with that product. >> So take me through the state of the art data as code in your mind 'cause infrastructure is code, DevOps has been awesome, that's cloud scale, we've seen that. Data as Code is a term we coined but means data's in the developer process. How do you see data being integrated into the workflow for developers in the future? >> Great question. I mean all kinds of ways. Part of the reason that, I kind of alluded to this earlier, building analytical applications, building applications based on data and based on letting people do analysis, how valuable it is and I guess to develop in that context there's kind of two big ways that we sort of see these things getting pushed out. One is developers building apps for other people to use. So think like, I want to build something like Google analytics, I want to build something that clicks my web traffic and then lets the marketing team slice and dice through it and make decisions about how well the marketing's doing. You can build something like that with databases like Druid and products like what we're having in Imply. I guess the other way is things that are actually helping developers do their own job. So kind of like use your own product or use it for yourself. And in this world, you kind of have things like... So going beyond what I think my favorite use case, I'll just talk about one. My favorite use case is so I'm really into performance, I spend the last 10 years of my life working on high performance database so obviously I'm into this kind of stuff. I love when people use our product to help make their own products faster. So this concept of performance monitoring and performance management for applications. One thing that I've seen some of our customers do and some of our users do that I really love is when you kind of take that performance data of your own app, as far as it can possibly go take it to the next level. I think the basic level of using performance data is I collect performance data from my application deployed out there in the world and I can just use it for monitoring. I can say, okay my response times are getting high in this region, maybe there's something wrong with that region. One of the very original use cases for Druid was that Netflix doing performance analysis, performance analysis more exciting than monitoring because you're not just understanding that there's a performance, is good or bad in whatever region sort of getting very fine grain. You're saying in this region, on this server rack for these devices, I'm seeing a degradation or I'm seeing a increase. You can see things like Apple just rolled out a new version of iOS and on that new version of iOS, my app is performing worse than the older version. And even though not many devices are on that new version yet I can kind of see that because I have the ability to get really deep in the data and then I can start slicing nice that more. I can say for those new iOS people, is it all iOS devices? Is it just the iPhone? Is it just the iPad? And that kind of stuff is just one example but it's an example that I really like. >> It's kind of like the data about the data was always good to have context, you're like data analytics for data analytics to see how it's working at scale. This is interesting because now you're bringing up the classic finding the needle in the haystack of needles, so to speak where you have so much data out there like edge cases, edge computing, for instance, you have devices sending data off. There's so much data coming in, the scale is a big issue. This is kind of where you guys seem to be a nice fit for, large scale data ingestion, large scaled data management, large scale data insights kind of all rolled in to one. Is that kind of-? >> Yeah, for sure. One of the things that we knew we had to do with Druid was we were building it for the sort of internet age and so we knew it had to scale well. So the original use case for Druid, the very first one that we ended up building for, the reason we build in the first place is because that original use case had massive scale and we struggled finding something, we were literally trying to do what we see people doing now which is we're trying to build an app on a massive data set and we're struggling to do it. And so we knew it had to scale to massive data sets. And so that's a little flavor of kind know how that works is, like I was mentioning earlier this, this realtime system and historical system, the realtime system is scalable, it's scalable out if you're reading from Kafka, we scale out just like any other Kafka consumer. And then the historical system is all based on what we call segments which are these files that has a few million rows per file. And a cluster is really big, might have thousands of servers, millions of segments, but it's a design that is kind of, it's a design that does scale to these multi-trillion road tables. >> It's interesting, you go back when you probably started, you had Twitter, Netflix, Facebook, I mean a handful of companies that were at the scale. Now, the trend is you're on this wave where those hyperscalers and, or these unique huge scale app companies are now mainstream enterprise. So as you guys roll out the enterprise version of building analytics and applications, which Druid and Imply, they got to going to get religion on this. And I think it's not hard because it's distributed computing which they're used to. So how is that enterprise transition going because I can imagine people would want it and are just kicking the tires or learning and then trying to put it into action. How are you seeing the adoption of the enterprise piece of it? >> The thing that's driving the interest is for sure doing more and more stuff on the internet because anything that happens on the internet whether it's apps or web based, there's more and more happening there and anything that is connected to the internet, anything that's serving customers on the internet, it's going to generate an absolute mountain of data. And the only question is not if you're going to have that much data, you do if you're doing anything on the internet, the only question is what are you going to do with it? So that's I think what drives the interest, is people want to try to get value out of this. And then what drives the actual adoption is I think, I don't want to necessarily talk about specific folks but within every industry I would say there's people that are leaders, there's organizations that are leaders, teams that are leaders, what drives a lot of interest is seeing someone in your own industry that has adopted new technology and has gotten a lot of value out of it. So a big part of what we do at Imply is that identify those leaders, work with them and then you can talk about how it's helped them in their business. And then also I guess the classic enterprise thing, what they're looking for is a sense of stability, a sense of supportability, a sense of robustness and this is something that comes with maturity. I think that the super high tech companies are comfortable using some open source software that's rolled off the presses a few months ago; he big enterprises are looking for something that has corporate backing, they're looking for something that's been around for a while and I think that Druid technologies like it are breaching that little maturity right now. >> It's interesting that supply chain has come up in the software side. That conversation is a lot now, you're hearing about open source being great, but in the cloud scale, you can get the data in there to identify opportunities and also potentially vulnerabilities is big discussion. Question for you on the cloud native side, how do you see cloud native, cloud scale with services like serverless Lambda, edge merging, it's easier to get into the cloud scale. How do you see the enterprise being hardened out with Druid and Imply? >> I think the cloud stuff is great, we love using it to build all of our own stuff, our product is of course built on other cloud technologies and I think these technologies built on each other, you sort of have like I mentioned earlier, all software is built in layers and cloud architecture is the same thing. What we see ourselves as doing is we're building the next layer of that stack. So we're building the analytics database layer. You saw when people first started doing these in public cloud, the very first two services that came out you can get a virtual machine and you can store some data and you can retrieve that data but there's no real analytics on it, there's just kind of storage and retrieval. And then as time goes on higher and higher levels get built out delivering more and more value and then the levels mature as they go up. And so the the bottom of layers are incredibly mature, the top most layers are cutting edge and there's a kind of a maturity gradient between those two. And so what we're doing is we're building out one of those layers. >> Awesome extraction layers, faster performance, great stuff. Final question for you, Gian, what's your vision for the future? How do you Imply and Druid it going? What's it look like five years from now? >> I think that for sure it seems like that there's two big trends that are happening in the world and it's going to sound a little bit self serving for me to say it but I believe what we're doing here says, I'm here 'cause I believe it, I believe in open source and I believe in cloud stuff. That's why I'm really excited that what we're doing is we're building a great cloud product based on a great open source project. I think that's the kind of company that I would want to buy from if I wasn't at this company and I was just building something, I would want to buy a great cloud product that's backed by a great open source project. So I think the kind of the way I see the industry going, the way I see us going and I think would be a great place to end up just kind of as an engineering world, as an industry is a lot of these really great open source projects doing things like what Kubernetes doing containers, we're doing with analytics et cetera. And then really first class really well done cloud versions of each one of them and so you can kind of choose, do you want to get down and dirty with the open source or do you want to choose just kind of have the abstraction of the cloud. >> That's awesome. Cloud scale, cloud flexibility, community getting down and dirty open source, the best of both worlds. Great solution. Goin, thanks for coming on and thanks for sharing here in the Showcase. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you too. >> Okay, this is theCUBE Showcase Season 2, Episode 2. I'm John Furrier, your host. Data as Code is the theme of this episode. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat Techno music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live day two of VMworld in Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay. It's apparently very hot outside but we're in here getting all the exciting scoop. I'm Lisa Martin with my esteemed co-host John Furrier. Hey, John. >> Great to see you, welcome back to the set. >> Thank you so much. John and I are pleased to be joined by a Fortinet customer, Ken Busby, Keith Busby, excuse me, the executive director of information technology and security at the school district of Philadelphia. Keith, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> So, the school district of Philadelphia, eight largest public school district in the United States. You've got over 134,000 students. >> Yes. >> Over 18,000 staff. If only your IT budget was enormous, right? >> Yes. (laughing) >> So you guys, something also interesting, this morning Malala Yousafzai was speaking with Sanjay Poonen. Very intriguing, on the whole spirit of education, let's talk about that. You guys gave Chromebooks to over maybe half the students, about 50, 60 thousand? >> Well it's not one to one, so they're shared resources, they have carts throughout the school. We have between 50 or 60 thousand Chromebooks on our network right now. >> So I imagine great for the students and the education, the firewall security maybe a bit challenged? >> As we started transitioning to the Chromebooks, it overwhelmed our legacy internet firewalls so we had to go out and do proof of concepts and test multiple vendors. >> Talk about the security, we had Pat Gelsinger sit in theCUBE, I think four years ago, Dave Vellante, co-host, asked him, "Is security a do over?" And he's like, "Yes, it's a do over, "we need to do a do over." I said mulligan, used all kinds of terms, resetting. How have you guys set up your security architecture because I've heard stories of fishing attacks just to get the bandwidth to do Bitcoin mining, to crazy things on the security front. How are you guys laying out your network security? >> Honestly, it changes on a day to day basis, right? Because as new vulnerabilities come out, you always have to adjust your posture. Over the last year and a half we redesigned to wear we're not, we were routing through web proxies, we're required to do web filtering for the students by the CIPA, Children's Internet Protection Act. When we replaced our legacy firewalls, we were able to transition everything over to that and just use the Fortinet firewall to do web filtering, intrusion prevention, anti-virus and traditional firewalling. >> How virtualized are you guys? >> Pretty much completely virtual. We still have a few legacy physical servers but pretty much all. >> One of the things that came up in keynote, today was Sanjay Poonen but yesterday Pat Gelsinger, referred it to, was the bridging of the ways, connecting computers together but he mentioned BYOD, bring your own device as one of the ways and that was really the iPhone kind of generation. Obviously kids got Instagrams and they're on all kind of devices these days, how is that impacting your IT? Is it up and running, is it solid? What are some of the details? >> We don't have a traditional BYOD policy. It's more teachers get devices and they bring them in and we just have to find ways to support it so it stretches us, we're a small staff so we can't always help the end user with their devices so if they bring their own device, we have issues, they're trying to use applications that we can't support for whatever reason so it's an issue. >> Obviously all the devices that come in to the school in addition to the 60,000 Chromebooks, needing to rethink your security architecture, what were some of the technical requirements that you were looking for that made Fortinet the obvious choice? >> Performance and cost, right? As we spoke about, we have budget constraints. They have an extremely high performing firewall at a reasonable price. After we did proof of concept with five different vendors, and theirs just out performed them all. >> How about automation? A big talk in cloud is automation. How are you guys handling automation? Are you micro segmenting? >> We're transitioning to the NSX and Fortinet VMX for our server firewall. That's going to allow us, since we're short staff, if our server team stands up a new server my policies automatically take effect, just through the use of their security tags. >> That's the Fortigate product, right? The VMX? >> Yes. >> How is that working for you guys? >> We just did the proof of concept, we haven't transitioned our live systems over to it. But so far all our tests have shown that it does what we expect it to do. >> What's it like working in such a huge school district? I mean it's basically like, it's probably like a case study in campus wide networking. (laughing) >> We look at it as we're an ISP, right? Every school comes through us. We always say that we're protecting the internet from our students. We have smart kids and they-- >> They're digitally native. >> Yeah. They find ways to do things and then next thing you know I'm getting a report by a website saying, "Hey, we got students coming and throwing attacks at us." >> I was talking to a guy in higher ed about the bandwidth, they have huge bandwidth so obviously people game, including gaming centers, have all kinds of IP management issues. Fortnite's pretty hot, I'm sure how many people are playing Fortnite on your-- >> Luckily we don't allow that, right? (laughing) >> But this is what kids want to do. They're like born hackers. >> It is. >> They're curious. >> Yes. >> And it's good thing but you also want to basically make sure they're safe. >> Yes, that's pretty much what my job is. I want them to learn but at the same time, don't use it for malicious purposes. >> Yeah, its' true. One of the things I liked about public sector is cloud really makes things more efficient. >> It does. >> What are some of the things that you've seen with virtualization and with cloud kind of on the horizon, how has tech helped you guys be efficient and be lean and mean, kind of the 10X IT kind of guy thing? >> Like you said, lean and mean, right? We have a very small staff. The school district's budget is 3.2 billion dollars and IT's operating budget is 20.8 million dollars so as you can see, we really have to be cost effective and that's where virtualization comes into play. >> What's some cool tech that you like on the horizon? We hear a lot about SDWAN, sure that might be something that's cool for you guys? >> I like the VPCs, right? AWS, virtual private clouds, where you can set up your own network out there in Amazon's world, attach it to your vSphere so you can have on premise virtualization and out in the cloud, I think that. >> One of things that Pat Gelsinger talked about yesterday we hear this a lot John, is tech for good. I liked how he described it as it's essentially neutral, it's up to us, VMware, everybody else, to shape it for good. I imagine that's challenging? We talked about the Fortnite explosion, which I have only heard of but you've got so many devices, I imagine there's some amount of security gaps that are probably acceptable. In terms of reducing the maliciousness of some of the things that happen in there, tell us about some of the things that you're achieving there, leveraging such things as the automation, how is that helping you guys to enable the Chromebooks and the BYOD for good? >> Well the automation frees up our time so that we can focus on the policies, the education, the different procedures for the district. This way we're not spending time hitting the keyboard, trying to review our traffic logs. >> You had a session yesterday which you were talking, a breakout session, and you were saying that there were some folks that were so interested in what you we had to say, you had limited time in your session. Give a little bit of an idea of some of the feedback or maybe even people that might be in your similar situation that want to learn from, hey, how did you guys tackle this huge problem? >> They were from a school district in Nebraska and they wanted to see how we were handling and they just became a Fortinet customer and they wanted to see what trials and tribulations we had implementing their equipment, any lessons learned and kind of, we just had a conversation about where we see our programs going. It was nice. >> What about compliance? One of the things that's come up is managing the laws of the land. >> Luckily, I don't have much compliance, right? So we're not PCI, CIPA's pretty much, and FERPA but the only reports that we really have to provide are for CIPA, we'll have to prove that we're doing web filtering. That's where the Fortinet analyzer comes into play. I'm able to just schedule the reports through there. Shows that I'm blocking based on categorization, and we're good. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned over the past couple years in tech and IT to be effective and to do your job, what's the learnings? (laughing) >> It's going to sound weird coming from a security guy but I think it's important to take the risk, right? Accept the risk. Most organizations won't try a piece of equipment live, right? I was the exact opposite, I put every firewall that we were going to try live and pushed our entire network through it. I mean, if it breaks some things, we figured it out but I think that's the only way to get a true test of whether or not it's going to fit your needs. >> One of the things that came up yesterday, I interviewed Andy Bechtolsheim, you know, legend, been called the Rembrandt of chips, Pat Gelsinger called him that down to Arista and other companies. He talked about how NSX has the security wrapped around the application, more around NSX, that's freed up his security teams from handling a lot of the network security which kind of like has been intertwined in the past. Are you seeing that same picture emerge? >> That's why I'm transitioning to that, to get out of the traditional IP base firewall rules. It's not really what it was designed for, it was more for a transport layer. So switching over to the NSX and the BMX, now we're basing it on the application, what it's purpose is. >> What's the impact to you guys? What's that mean for your operations and your benefits for staff, what's the impact? >> It frees us up. During the winter months when we're going to have a snow storm, our server team might have to deploy some more web servers to handle the traffic that's going to come in. Before they would have to reach out to my team, to get us to modify a policy because they have new device coming online, well now they just tag it as a web server and it's automatically in the roles. >> You know I love talking about this topic. I have four kids, two of them are still in high school, two are in college, so it's so funny how they all hacked their report cards because the sandbox was out there for testing the new curriculum so they all get it and they all share it and the school sends out a note, "Well, that's not actually officially updated yet." So the kids are smart, like you said, they're going to get what a sandbox is. They don't know why it's there, they know how to get to it, so you got student elections, all kinds of things that go on in the academic world that have been digitized that are vulnerable, you have to handle that. How do you stay on top, does Fortinet help you there? Or what's the main way to keep the secure access? >> I mean that's why we're going with the VMX, NSX, the micro segmentation, it really takes the effort off of us and allows the appliances to do what they're intended to do. >> That's awesome, well it's a great case study. Any advice for practitioners out there who are in your seat in their world who might be looking at, okay I got to reset, I got to start rethinking things, I got to do more with less, I got to be lean and mean? It's kind of command and control but you got to manage it, you got a lot going on, it's the battlefield of IT is changing. >> Yes. >> So what's your advice? >> Take the risk. (laughing) Try it out. I just recently hired another engineer and on his first day I pretty much told him, "Go ahead and break something, it's alright, "we'll figure it out, we'll fix it." He has his own little lab and I'm like, "Just go mess around and figure it out." >> Play, do some R and D. >> Yeah. >> Kick the tires, yeah, it's the best way to do it. Keith, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. It's theCUBE live here in Las Vegas, stick with us for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: From New York it's theCUBE covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Everyone I'm John Furrier, the cofounder and cohost of theCUBE. We're here in New York City for exclusive coverage of Blockchain Week New York put out with a variety of events. One is Consensus 2018 sold out packed house as well as another event Cryptohou.se here in East Village for a great event. And I'm here with Patty Perez who's the owner of the Cryptohou.se, used to live here. Hey thanks for having us today and I want to What's the story, you own this place. It's now a great venue for inspiring a lot of entrepreneurs who couldn't have an outlet to have their voice heard. >> Well originally this was my yoga school. It was a live work house for ten years and I closed it seven years ago and just lived here and, and now I'm ready for my next venue and I was telling my boyfriend that, you know, I really want to do something with my house. Sort of like the yoga school, but I'm so excited and interested in Blockchain for the last year and wouldn't it be great to have a social club or an education hub for this because I have no idea what's going on and I want to learn. And so why not have all the thought leaders come to my house and, and teach each other and just open it up to all of us because I know you're learning every day. I know I am. >> That's fantastic, and then in forces they learn the whole time and that's why they make some influences, but I think what's important here that I want to just share and it's a great story and I think you really deserve a lot of credit for it is that it's a venue for people to not only learn and share their experiences but it's also an outlet for some collaboration in the open in a way that's community based. It's not like a structured event, big tent event, sponsors everywhere, you know, make money. This is about people, the community having a access. And so I got to ask you when did this happen? Like just, 'cause I love this place. >> Well we've been coconspiring it and I've been speaking with Strategic Coin like come on, let's do this, let's do this at my house and they're so busy with you know a million projects and but somehow the waters parted and here we are and we got a great team together and Strategic Coin has been just amazing and >> Well I got to tell you in California, last week I was in San Francisco for some events, Red Hat Summit, big open source community. Of course we watched the Twittersphere and the Snapchat sphere, Instagrams, Facebooks of the world all that place. You guys had great buzz over the weekend and even coming in yesterday and today. A lot of great community conversations, not just people promoting their, their event at like Consensus, hey come to our booth. There's just authentic knowledge being shared on the digital sphere and that works, that connects with people so congratulations. >> There's a great need obviously, above and beyond us or anyone, it's so organic and today, yesterday there were a series of speakers and they were all amazing and interesting but today the conference took on what we coined as the unconference and sure enough it was more of a boxing ring than a conference, of debating and just sort of being in the vulnerable place of actually not knowing something and being in the inquiry in that uncomfortable space and people felt so comfortable to take deep dives into what they're actually wanting to create or, you know, so it's-- >> That's great progress too, when you have a debate and not have to worry about being judged doing a learning exercise. >> Exactly, and you don't have to, you know, look a certain way or have your, you know everyone was really like, you know what? And you don't know what you're talking about. It's like wait a minute. >> Sounds like my Facebook feed. >> (laughs) >> What did you learn this week? What was the big surprise for you? What was a cool thing you've learned? Can you share an anecdote so far from this week? >> Wow, that's a good question, and I have to respond right this moment. Well, the greatest thing that I learned is how much people need education around this. You know it, not just businesses, but everyone because it ignites, I think so. And also one thing that I've noticed more than anything else is that there is an interculteration between the old bankers and the new kids that are really and the old bankers are saying well you kids are idiots. There is an interculturation between the old bankers and the new kids that are really and the old bankers are saying well you kids are idiots. >> Cation like this in a way that can be contentious, offending sometimes, on the other side of the debate. But it's floating in the digital sphere so we believe at theCUBE, we've seen it with content. Good content, authentic, genuine content codeveloped creates community karma, and you're doing that here. >> Yes, I think so, and also one thing that I've noticed more than anything else is that there is an interculturation between the old bankers and the new kids that are really, and the old bankers are saying well you kids are idiots. And the new kids are like oh my God. >> John: Get off my lawn. >> And so it's so much fun just meeting in the middle and it's a whole new culture that's being created. >> Well I was having a conversation with Richard from Arcadia Crypto Partners and I was, and there needs to be some mentoring because this is an opportunity for both. I mean I know some of the smartest guys from Crypto are old dogs and gals, they're out there but the young guns have the energy and the ideas as well so I see a mix and I think it's important that the older generation, if you will, that's like I'm talking about me myself, you know, really kind of let the young kids in-- >> And there's a young kid in you that is so excited right now, I see it in your eyes. >> I wish I was 20 something, I wish I was 20. It's the most exciting wave, I've been involved in a lot of waves of innovation. This one, by far, is the best. >> I see the inner teenager right now. >> Okay we're bonding here on theCUBE. Patty thanks so much for doing what you do and Cryptohou.se is an amazing initiative and project, very strong mission, love the mission, and I love to promote it. Thanks for having us on theCUBE, thanks for having us-- >> Thanks so much, thank you. >> We appreciate it. I'm John Furrier here at the Cryptohou.se for the Block event but there have been events all week as part of Blockchain Week New York. Of course theCUBE is there covering it as usual. Thanks for watching, see you next time.

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum, in Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive live coverage here in Mountain View, California, the heart of Silicon Valley at the Computer History Museum for Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm here with Lauren Cooney, the analyst, for the Wikibon team and our next guest is I'm proud to have Guy Kawasaki here on theCUBE. Guy is, goes without mentioning, a legend in the industry. Currently, the chief evangelist for Canva author of Art of the Start, a real pioneer in entrepreneurship, tech entrepreneurship, tech evangelism. Guy, great to see you, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Among other things, you've done a lot of amazing things. Thanks for joining us. >> What better place to be. >> The tech culture now is so mainstream. You're seeing Facebook CEO draw in more audience than a Supreme Court justice. >> More people watched the Senate hearings yesterday-- >> He probably has more impact than a Supreme Court justice. >> He's running the world. The tech culture has really grown to be a mainstream...in the early days the computer industry when it was really the beginning of the revolution, the PC revolution, Macintosh and the PC, you were there. So much has happened. I mean, as you look back, I mean looked out at the young guns coming up, what's your view, what's your reaction to all this? You have these (mumbles) moments. >> What's your take on all this? >> I suppose many people would say, we never thought it would get to this point. It's turned destructive and negative and all that. But it's a short snapshot of time and, first of all, can we put the genie back in the bottle? No, so it doesn't really matter. But, all things considered, the democratization of computing, everybody has a computer, whether it's a phone or a computer. The democratization of the transfer of information, obviously some information may be faint, may be not what you like. But would we go back to a time where we send things by fax machines? Not at all, I mean all things considered, >> it's a great time to be alive. >> Democratization goes through these waves, democratization with the PC, democratization with the internet, democratization of web 2.0 and social media. The beginning of social media, about 15 years, maybe 10, whatever way you might want to mark it. And now democratization with data and AI is interesting. So you're having these waves of democratization. It's going to take some time to sort out. I mean, as you look at the tech trends, how do you make sense of it, or what do you get excited about? How do you surf that wave? (chuckling) If you're going to surf the wave, the big wave coming, which some say is block chain and cryptocurrency and decentralization. What's the wave that you're on, that's the question? >> To use a surfing analogy, if we're going to go down that rat hole, a good, experienced surfer knows where to sit, can look out and say, I'll take the fourth wave. And I'll sit in the right place, turn around at the right time, paddle at the right time, you know, all that. And then there's people like me. We sit in the same place, and every 15 minutes, the right wave comes along and catches us. Those are the two theories. >> I think if only predicting tech trends were as easy as predicting surfing. >> Interviewer: Timing's everything. >> Timing is everything, luck is a lot to do with it. We only learn about the Apples and the Googles and the Ciscos and the Facebooks and the Pinterests and the Instagrams. I think you think, well, there are these really smart people and they can predict the trend or cause a trend. I think it's more the game of big numbers where if you have enough surfers in the water, somebody's going to catch a wave. (chuckling) And then you can say, yeah, I knew he was the best surfer. >> But really, right place, right time. >> And you got to know what a wave looks like. >> Guy: Well, yeah. >> You got to be, like, okay, am I in a tide pool >> or am I on a boogie board. >> And to your point, you've got to be in the water. [John] Yeah, yeah. >> You can't be standing on the shore, saying I'm going to catch a wave. You have to be in the water, and if you're in the water, >> nine times out of ten you're going to get crushed. (chuckling) >> If you're not out in front of that next wave, you're driftwood. In surfing, people will jump and try to take your wave, this sounds like the tactic of the whole industry. >> Guy: Exactly, right, right. >> What waves do you see that are coming, in your mind. You've seen a lot of waves in your day. I mean, right now, what wave is exciting you right now. >> If you look at the waves, what's out there? >> What I learn about that is, you can only declare your intelligence and victory after the fact, right. I can tell you the internet of things is big. I can tell you that social media is big. I can tell you that computing is big. Problem is I could tell you that because I know it's big now. Can I tell you what's in the future, no. If I could...first of all I wouldn't tell you. (chuckling) So I think in a rare moment of humility it's the law of big numbers. Infinite monkeys typing at keyboards, somebody's going to come up with Beethoven. >> I want to ask you a question because I get asked this question a lot, Hey, John, you've been around a while. I want to catch that next big wave, I want to be in the next Google, I want to be rich on stock options. (Guy chuckling) I said, a lot of times the best companies where you take the most advantage of is when no one else wants to work there or no one yet knows it. We really can't say, Oh, I'm going to get rich on that company because by that time it's either too late and people are chasing the wrong thing. >> Guy: Absolutely. >> How do you give that same advice to someone? >> Listen, you're talking to a guy who quit Apple twice and turned down Steve once. So how smart could I be? (John chuckling) Now we can say Apple is the most valuable company in the world, you should have stayed there. Well, thank you very much, thanks for tell me now. I think it's really... I don't want to be too dramatic, but I could almost build a case that you should invest in or work for the most dumb-ass idea you heard of. Because at any given point-- >> Airbnb, we're going to rent out mattresses >> and give out cereal. >> Very good example, Airbnb. Let's face it, if somebody told you Airbnb, before there was Airbnb, you would say, So you're telling me that I'm going to rent a room from somebody I met on the internet, and I'm going to sleep in that person's house, hoping he's not a murderer or pedophile. On the flip side, you're saying, I'm going to rent out my room to someone who I hope is not a pedophile or an ax murderer. Or ebay...I'm going to buy this printer from 3000 miles away and I'm going to assume it works. Or I'm going to sell my good printer to someone 3000 miles away and assume that he's not going to say he never got it or that it didn't work and he wants a refund. So if you go down the line of all these ideas, you'd have to say at the time, nobody. Even take an extreme: Zappos. If you told me that women would buy shoes without trying them on, seeing them, smelling them, and touching them, I would tell you you're crazy. You'd buy a book that way. You'd buy a CD that way, you'd buy a DVD. Would you buy shoes, would you buy shoes without trying them on. >> I totally would. (laughing) Now I can say that. >> To Zappos's credit, some of the way it made that work is it offered shipping back for free. So there was really no risk. But I would have been a skeptic about Zappos. >> Well, it was one of those things for me, Zappos, where they shipped in one day so I could get them immediately, try them on and if they didn't work, I could ship them back and get a different size. It was no big deal, it was very low overhead. So that's one of the reasons that that worked. But I think when you mention all of these great things like Ebay and Airbnb, it's really part of the sharing economy with people really wanting to share the goodness of their goods with other people that need them. >> It's just really connecting those folks. >> Places like Oakland and San Francisco, where there are certain streets where you line up and you just get in the next car with a stranger, and you go to San Francisco with them. >> Lauren: Yeah. >> And it's not computerized or anything. It's just trust. >> I did that once and it was frightening. (laughs) You never know who the driver is going to be or how they're going to drive. >> But you did it. >> I did it. >> People do it every day. >> I know. >> I'm amazed. >> I did it once, but... (laughing) >> Let's ask you a question. What's the craziest idea that you've seen that worked and the craziest idea that didn't work. >> Let's start with the easy one. I had a company called garage.com, and we were a venture capitalist investment bank, so we got pitched all the time. One day, a guy comes in and says, I'm going to build... A dirigible hotel over San Francisco. So you stay in the dirigible. Another person said, We're going to build a geodesic dome over Los Angeles. And I can't remember if it was to keep the air pollution in or out. I'll just tell you one really great one. These people were from Seagate so they had Cray, they worked for Seagate. And they say, We have this patent-pending, curb-jumping, patent-pending whatever technology so that if you drop your laptop with your hard disk, the head won't crash into the hard disk and ruin the hard disk. And at the time, this was 15 years ago, that was a great idea, right. It wasn't solid state. Heads crashing into hard disks. >> Moving parts. >> Seagate, so this is a great idea. Every hard disk in every laptop should be like it. So we get in the car, we go to their office, and the receptionist says, Oh, they're running late because they're on the phone with IBM. IBM is really interested in using this technology for the IBM PC laptop. Keep us waiting, keep us waiting. And they get out, and, Yeah, IBM was really, they're so excited, they're ready to move. And I, like, we're really excited. And finally I said, Give me the jist, what is your technology, is it like some special chip that detects gravitational fall, it's too fast, it's got to be hitting the ground so it parks the head because it recognizes motion or whatever. And I swear to God, I swear to God, he brings out this piece of foam and he says this is military spec foam. So we take your hard disk, we put this foam thing around it, and we put it in the laptop. And I swear to God, I was having an out of body experience. >> You're telling me-- >> I drove all the way here-- >> That your proprietary technology is putting foam around the hard disk, and IBM is excited by this foam. So welcome to my life. >> So what are you up to now. Talk about your evangelism. I know you're a (mumbles) Mercedes. You have a bunch of things going on. You've been very prolific in social media. You were on the suggested user list from day one on Twitter. >> No, I wasn't. >> Oh, no, you weren't, that's right. But you have a zillion followers. >> That's why I have never forgiven Twitter for that. >> I thought they put you on. >> Guy: No. >> Okay, I stand corrected. >> You had to be an actress. >> Some tech people got on there, I know. >> Guy: Yeah. >> But I was not on. >> There you go. >> Measly 20,000 or so. But you got a million and a half followers active. You've really been prolific in a good way. (laughing) Engaging with communities. >> Yeah. >> What have you learned and how do you view this next generation of social because you're seeing the Facebooks, you're seeing LinkedIn. There's siloed platforms. Is there hope? What's your take on it, is it going to grow? >> I've come to the point where I always believe things are never as good or as bad as they seem. So I don't think it's as bad as people say. If these social media sites are selling my data, they're going to go broke selling my data. (laughs) I don't know how you could look at my data. First of all, I never look at ads, so go ahead, sell my data. I'm not going to look at the ad anyway. It doesn't matter. I think the ability to spread ideas, arguably good or bad, the ability to spread ideas with social media, all things considered, is better. It's going to be abused and all that. My father was a state senator in Honolulu, and we were into banner ads way before anybody else. Banner was literally a piece of cloth with his name on it that you staple to the side of a building, saying Vote for Duke Kawasaki. That was the nature of banner advertisement back then. Do I think that social media targeting and all that for sales is a good thing? Yes, I do. If you're a real estate broker, and you wanted to reach people who live in Silicon Valley, age 50 to 70, female or male or whatever, in such-and-such an income bracket, how else can you do it but Facebook? >> It's good and bad. >> That's why Facebook is so successful. >> The metadata is all about the clan and the culture, and I think putting ideas out there is a way to send your ideas into the ether, make it happen. So, that's key. Now, we're here at a developer conference, so one of the things that's also a big part of this community is the notion of how open source has become a tier one citizen, and it's really running the world. Which is also grounded in community as well. You have this ethos of community, ethos of software open. >> I believe in open source. I believe that the more intelligent people pounding on your stuff, the better it is. I'm an author, and what I do is, speaking in the sense of open source. So right now I'm about 80% done with my book. I put out a post on social media saying anybody that wants to review my book, test my book, send me your information. So I do this, I cut it off at about 280 people. I send them the Word document, the entire Word document of my book. Does that mean they can take it and publish it in China tomorrow, yes. But, from that, I get hundreds and hundreds of comments. >> John: Wisdom of the crowds, self-editing. >> Yeah, and they point out stuff that I never would have noticed because I'm too close to at this point. So is there a downside, yes. Is there piracy, yes. Arguably, would those pirates have bought the book anyway? No. >> Our content's all free. We're really big in China because they actually take it and translate it in the native language. >> Guy: Which you would never have done. >> With all the jargon, you can't hire a-- >> Guy: You would never have done that. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Guy, great to catch up with you. Thanks for coming on. What are you working on now, you mentioned the book, what's the book about? >> The book is called Wise Guy, and it's a compilation of the stories that have influenced my life. So it's not an auto-biography. It is not a memoir. Have you ever heard of the book Chicken Soup for the Soul? >> John: Yeah, yeah. >> You know, it's inspirational stories. This is miso soup for the soul. (laughing) So I'm working on that, TV evangelism with Canva is just going gangbusters. Brand ambassadors for Mercedes Benz. I'm on the board of directors of a company called Cheeze with a zee. It's an anti-social photo-sharing and vidoo-sharing app. And that's it. >> You've been an inspiration to many, great job of the year has been a big fan of your work. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Guy Kawasaki here inside theCUBE. We're at Devnet Create. This is Cisco's cloud developer conference. Different from their core Devnet Cisco Networking developer, and this is all about dev ops open source. And this is theCUBE bringing you all the action here in Mountain View, California. We'll be right back with more after this short break.