>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barters >> Welcome back. We're here, Cisco Live San Diego. You're watching the Cubans to minimum. My co host is Dave Volante and happy to welcome to the program. First of all, I have to tell Valente, no relation was the vice president of product management who are Cloud Platform in Solutions group at Cisco. And joining us is also Santana Dasgupta, who's a distinguished systems engineer at Cisco. We're gonna be talking about service Friday. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Of course. Alright, so jail let let's start the service. Freida Group, Of course. You know, we've heard for a long time how important service fighters are out there. Everything from service writers were going to become the new channel. A Sze Yu know customers less unless they're building their own data centers. You know, service fighters become a bigger environment. Tell us a little bit about you know your organ the latest What's going on in your customers? >> Yeah, So you know what? Cisco Obviously they are trying to help Ray in the transformation to actually multi cloud leveraging. Actually, the cloud benefits not only for enterprises and public sectors, but also for the service providers so that they can also reaped the benefit off the new actually trans technologies coming out, including five g on in that context. Obviously, if you really want to take advantage of Far Gina proper way going forward, starting actually with an evolution of architectures, you really have to look at the clouds and specifically what we call the telco cloud. >> Yeah, so the Espy market is going through a mass killed transformation, transformation in the business model and architecture and how you take the services to the market on one key. And it blew up the transformation that we believe is virtual elation, adopting the whole notion of telco cloud very virtualized your core functions for enabling the delivery of services in a more agile fashion into the market. But also it's all about transforming the court services construct itself. How do we push on the services element into the age of the net for being closer to the proximity of the Indians so that it enables much? Lord didn't see a new monitor visible applications, which is where service order to have a lot of open right now. >> So if I could just dig in on that for 1st 2nd you talk about services. So we watched that wave of network functions virtual ization, NFI where before it was I just had lots of appliances and rolling out each service individually, as opposed to what people want is they want, you know, the basically, you know, at market for the enterprise. And, you know, I just want to be able to get my services. You know, when I'm a consumer and you know, I want to do things well, I've got the Internet and I get those things. I need a similar environment from the service fighters going out to the Enterprise. Do I have that kind of high level, right? >> Yes, actually, we had on that bath. I mean, they're completely years as an industry were on the journey to actually get there on go. We initially talked about most of the core functions, like think ofthe armory packet corner policy or some some value added engine at the back end. But the world is evolving faster. To actually also think through that how we can add more consumer facing applications and services on top of it, like augmented reality, virtual reality, cloud gaming and all that sort >> of stuff. Dale, this is a real imperative for telcos, and it's a complicated situation, right, because they've got decades and decades of infrastructure built up. Don Tapscott famously said one time that God may have created the world in six days, but he didn't have an install base. And so the telcos they have of kind of a fossilized, hard installed based built around making sure it's up and not necessarily agile. Now you got all these over the top players coming in, and all these value other services on top of dumb pipe, the price is air coming down. The demand for data is going up, so they gotta change. That's right, right? So what? What do they have to do and what role this Cisco play? >> So again, it told about that software defined transformation and win that is required. And they, you know, we talked already a bit more about the record, an example that was actually even showcase briefly this morning because certainly, obviously it's a greenfield operator, so it's a bit of difference, but We think that there is a lot off applique ability to brown field as well tow the legacy. You have to actually chuck into the different domains what, that service provider environment and really start looking at how you can offer both consumer services and business services at a price point at a level of automation and agility that makes sense. And that is pretty much comparable to a large extent to what the cloud providers of the week. Um, you know, there are advantages the service providers hive in terms ofthe. Obviously, the services they deliver today thie assets that they own, the proximity, the locations as well, that they have the relationships. But really, there is a, as we said earlier, Nassif transformation that start with the network, but also with those pockets where you need to Software eyes will turn to software many of those assets >> essentially talking about a specialized telco cloud, if you will. So how is that different from you know, the clouds that we know the private clouds, the hybrid clouds, the public clouds, one of the attributes that are different in how do people get on the company's getting telcos? Get in that journey. >> Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at, uh, the telco industry in general, including ourselves, like the vendors. I mean, I call myself for ourselves as, like, you know, coming back from the era of dinosaurs, right? So, I mean, if you look at the access technology for last three decades, what have changed? Nothing way have been moving from one G Tito Tito treaty to 40. Now we're talking a five g without talking off. A fundamentally destructive are differentiated architecture. So that's something which is actually being coming up all in the front front at the moment on, that's changing the way the networks can be built. How you can build on how you can break the monolithic supplication and adopt a more decomposed, desegregated our conjecture and also, at the same time, drive all the services and applications in a more distributed manner with a flexible placement capability, so that you can enable all sort of new applications and services. And again, I mean at the other. And given the fact that this is mostly a brown Fillon moment, it is largely all about culture transformation, given the fact that you know, unless the people process on, the culture revolves. This would be a very tough journey. Moving for >> one of the point back to your question is wellies. Though there are nuances big ones between a 90 cloud, uh, today in the cloud that are generally club general purpose Cloud that offered, you know, buy are obviously partners ws Microsoft, Google it and really a telco clan based on the nature ofthe those network functions. The workload on the nature of this were close. The traffic demand that they have the understanding or cliff There are how the hardware itself or the underpinning the infrastructure needs to have some specific attributes to make this work at scale. But we're trying to mimic as much as possible the scaling capabilities, the flexibility, agility, the elasticity of a cloud so that service providers can read the prophet off pretty much a general cloud >> involvement. Conceptually, there are a lot of similar out similarities. I presume that from a developer standpoint, there's a Dev ops analog, analog, maybe a cloud native, maybe serve earless. Something like server list functions absolutely in Telco cloud. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So what we see is the idea under Telco World are actually coming together because I need a lot ofthe telco expertise were also at the same time. I need a lot of expertise because that's what exact exactly right now happening. I mean, there's some fundamental differences between a standard righty private, our hybrid Claude and tell the cloud like I deploy our thousands or hundreds of locations are set a few locations. The applications are different. It's highly Io intensive. You're dealing with a lot of packets like millions of packets which are mostly are transiting function going in and out. But having said that while this initial deployment wave is being targeted for mostly for those delicate type of obligations, we're seeing a very clear demand on a journey towards a common goal of setting up our one unified cloud, right so that you can host it and telco all in the same cloud on that's exactly what they want sexually takes a reality. >> Well, in one of the things I'm surprised we haven't touched on yet is EJ Computing is, you know, critical for these environment. And I can't just have bespoke solutions for all of them. From my corrida edge toe, you know, Telco, there need to be communications amongst all of these because data is going to flow between them and therefore, it can't be. You know, Moz, in between them, I need to be able to pass data and have my applications access these various pieces. >> Absolutely. In fact, the way we have he'll concede some of the systems is a unified architecture that is distributed as a Delco plowed. So that actually from the new service managers or the new ways says B. S s. They see, actually, one unified cloud with placement capabilities based on constraints where you can actually put the workload where they need to be based on Soleil is based on the requirements in technical resources that are available, you know, from forage to a central DC and all the way to actually a public cloud because we're starting seeing some of the customers around the world. It's really a massive transformation that is global. Some of them are starting to look at how they can leverage the public cloud for bursting purposes, for disaster recovery, or even for other functions for specific applications that maybe less demanding, actually on the side. >> Well, since I know you were talking about how that one of the differences that hell cozier more distributed, you know, greater io intensity. My question is, can we learn from the telco clouds from a security model standpoint? Because normally if they go tell coz we're kind of behind traditional i t. But from a security model astounds maybe more challenging. And you always hear the traditional i t. So we it's going to the edge, the telcos already there. So is the security model actually more advanced than what can we learn from that? And how is it >> evolving? Yeah, the security model is still evolving. So in fact, I would say for the total cloud which is being done at the more Court Central Data Center location, the security model is pretty advanced. But when things go towards the edge, especially its computing, which is huge, the security model is actually evolving. And we see a lot of promises with things such as, you know, secure chain of trust, or even block Chinn actually coming there and trying to play a huge role. So I think that's one area which we expected you all over the next few years. It's a lot of challenge but also you know, it's very exciting in that particular space. >> And actually those. This is a very key point because that infrastructure from service providers is actually usually many of the country's part of the national assets the cyber securities. The agencies in those countries work actually with Cisco Security Trust officer letters to really make sure that we do have a level of security that goes beyond maybe even the boundaries of what we've seen on enterprise. So yes, to your point, there is a lot of advances in that area as well. >> All right, so jail, half the shows I've been to this year have had a breakout for Telco. There's there's no denying that there's a lot of growth and a lot of change happening in that environment. What differentiates Cisco's approach from the rest of the people looking at the multi cloud and software pieces >> so more people are murky? Pool area is first. Obviously we have these murky cloud or this hybrid cloud view in which we have worked with the best out there. The Web scale providers, the cloud providers. In fact, if I look at racket and others there are even mimicking this notion off a sorry the Google approach to, you know, really the reliability enginering the transformation off those class cloud in a very specific way. Theater aspect is we're doing it. We have a holistic view at the Telco Cloud. It's not just the infrastructure, it's the automation. The automation is absolutely critical that there is absolutely no touch from humans to be able actually to manage of that scale even more so if you deploy it in 1,000 of edge points, it has to be completely actually automated. So the aspect ofthe automation, the aspect of security, the aspect of people transformation, organizational as well is something that, between the service component to this other solution and the products is very unique. And what we do, it's Cisco. >> Yeah, if I may just add one thing on top of that, just chill said right. So if you look at our playing the Espy or telco market, we have a comprehensive solution. We are solutions right from routing Optical Jacinto Compute Telco, Claude Watch television automation, melodic or being gcm. Here's a bunch of stuff, right? But what becomes very interesting is if you look at 55 g and we all are talking up. The five G is going to be all about enterprise services now. Think about it for a while, right? Who is the number one dominant player in the market for a better price, with the deepest portfolio absolution and the farthest reaching there? No price market that Cisco. So that's what we believe, that we can actually really, you know, creator right confluence of border side of the technology to create the right offer for our customers and held them to take to the market. >> In fact, we've taken a number off our very large enterprise customers that journey to understand, from their point of view as well how they could leverage five g wife like six in the context off a mobile first cloud first type environment. And it's across permeates, actually, obviously what those service providers need to offer to grow again beyond customer services, which is not where, actually the you know, the hyper growth will be as faras Service school sir, >> Well, jail in Santa Ana. Thank you so much for sharing the updates. What happened? Tell Cho service provider space. Thanks so much for joining us. Everybody alright, We'll be back with lots more water wall coverage here at Cisco alive. San Diego 2019 for David Dante on stew Minimum. And thank you for what? Thank you.

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida it's theCUBE covering Service Now Knowledge 17 brought to you by Service Now. >> Welcome back to Orlando everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage and this is Knowledge 17 #know17. Daniel Pink is here, best selling author, speaker at the CIO forum here. Daniel, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> It's great to be here. >> So, you were tellin' us about an audience of a hundred CIOs hanging out, kicking back, listening to you. Give him the love on the Persuasion, the Art of Persuasion and Selling. He wrote a book to sell us humans. So, share with us the premise and what you were talking to the CIOs about. >> Well, I mean the premise was that a lot of persuasion influenced in selling is more science than art. There's this rich body of social science that gives us some clues about how to be more persuasive, whether we're persuading up, whether we're persuading down in an organization, whether we're persuading side to side. And, these CIOs are persuading in multiple, multiple directions. They're talking to their CEO. They're talking to their Board. They're talking to their team. They're talking to other business units. They're talking to vendors and so, I want to look at what does the science tell us about how to persuade effectively. >> Well, I mean typically you don't think of, now maybe this is different, a little bit different for CIOs, but IT people generally are not great salespeople. >> That's what we think, right. Yeah, exactly. And yet, it you look at some of the data we have, we find that in general, this is the whole swath of the U.S. work force, people in a variety of functions are spending about 40 percent of their time persuading, influencing and selling, in general. They might not necessarily be, not necessarily selling a product or service in a cash exchange, but they are doing things. They are at a meeting and they are trying to persuade someone to do something different or do something in a different way. They're a boss trying to get their employee to do something. They're an employee trying to get their boss to stop doing something. They're dealing with people they need to get, enlist help from someone in another department. You need to recruit someone to come and work for you rather than for a competitor. And so, if you look at the content of a lot of white collar work, a huge portion of it is this thing that's kind of, sort of, like selling. It's not denominated in dollars, but the transaction is the denomination is time, effort, attention, energy, zeal, belief, whatever and it's a big part of what we do. And, as I said, you don't have to go with your intuitions about what's effective and what's not, you can actually look to this rich body of social science for some clues about how to do it more effectively. >> So, why does selling have the black eye when it's really persuasion and, as you said, we're all persuading all the time? Not only at work, but also at home with our kids, our spouse, everybody. >> I would say it's a black eye and a bloody nose. I mean, it's looked at, people really really look at sales in a negative way. It's quite remarkable. I think that that's. I'll give you the reason and I'll tell you why the reason is outdated. The reason is that most selling and buying for most of our lifetimes, for most of human civilization has been in a world of information assymetry where the seller always had more information than the buyer. When the seller had more information than the buyer the seller can rip you off. Alright, when the seller has more information than the buyer, the buyer doesn't have any choices. The buyer doesn't have a way to talk back. The seller can really rip you off. Information assymetry is why we have the principle of buyer beware. Buyers have to beware 'cause they're at a disadvantage because of information. Alright, this is basically the history of commerce until like ten years ago when all of a sudden, we went from a world of information assymetry to a world of information parity. And so, and this is true in every domain. It's true for selling a product, you know, selling a car, selling b to b services. It's true in the dating market. It's true in the hiring market. It's true at a meeting where, it drives baby boom managers crazy, they'll be in a meeting and they'll say something and some 28 year old sitting in the back will say, excuse me, and hold up her phone and say, no, what you said isn't right. Alright, and so the reason it has this black eye and bloody nose is because we're used to this world of information assymetry. One of my points was, okay we're in a totally different era now of information parity and that's a different terrain. And so, again you can use the science to navigate this terrain. >> So, people ask me what's this digital transformation all about. I say, well it's attempt by brands to achieve assymetry again. >> I mean listen, if you are a seller assymetry is awesome, alright. I mean, you want to do everything you can to preserve it. What I'm saying is that the tide is so ferocious here that it's a very difficult thing to hold back. So, it's possible in certain kinds of industries and certain kinds of products and services, you can do some things to kind of hold back that tide. My view is like holding back tides is difficult work. And, usually in the long run it doesn't work very well. So, my view is like, okay what do you in this world of information parity and this world, you know the old world was buyer beware, I think this new world is seller beware. And, I think that today what sellers have to do is they have to take the high road. I mean, you want to take the high road because it's the right thing to do, but now there's a very pragmatic reason to take the high road. It's 'cause the low road doesn't lead anywhere. >> Right. Well, the other thing that you're touching on which is again, within the last ten years it's instinct versus data base decision making and processing. So as you said, you don't have to make this up. There's plenty of science to support this effort and the instinctual guy in the corner is no longer necessarily the authority. >> Absolutely right, and what's interesting is a lot of this, some of this research confirms our instincts. Some of this research doesn't. For instance, we tend to believe that strong extroverts make the best sales people. Not true, it's an absolute abject myth. Strong extroverts, in general, are terrible sales people. Now, it doesn't mean that strong introverts are better. People who are the best, and I was talking to these somewhat more introverted CIOs, the people who are the best, and there's some good research on this, are what are called ambiverts, which are people who are in the middle, not heavily extroverted, not heavily introverted. And, the great thing about the ambiverts is that they are ambidextrous, so they know when to speak up, they know when to shut up. They know when to push, they know when to hold back. So, even though the mythology or instincts, to use your word, is that, oh strong extroverts make better sales people. If I want to sell more I got to be more extroverted. The evidence doesn't say that. The evidence says, in fact, to the contrary. The evidence points to ambiverts as having an edge in selling. >> So, what's the formula for the high road? Is it transparency a part of that? >> Well, on a personal level, yeah, I think transparency is getting to be not even a choice. It's basically like, transparency is no more a choice than say, oxygen is a choice. >> Yeah, okay, stable stakes. So, yeah, exactly. So, if you look at the research there are three personal qualities that seem to be important. Attunement, which is, can you get out of your own head into someone else's head, understand their perspective? Okay, so you don't have any coercive power today. Buoyancy, they're a b c, attunement, buoyancy, total luck, attunement, buoyancy and clarity. Buoyancy is in any kind of persuasive effort there's a huge amount of rejection and human beings don't like rejection. I don't like rejection, nobody likes rejection. So, one sales person who I interviewed described his job as looking out into an ocean of rejection. So, buoyancy is, how do you stay afloat in that ocean of rejection. How do you deal with rejection? And, there's some good science behind that. And then, clarity has two dimensions. Clarity is, it used to be that if you had access to information, you had an edge. But, now everybody has access to information. >> Right, right. >> So, the edge comes from being able to curate information, being able to make sense of information. Separate out the signal from the noise and information. The other thing is that you were talking again, this goes directly to your point about instinct versus data and machine. You know, a lot of sales people like to say, old fashioned sales people say, oh, I'm a problem solver, and that's cool. It's just that problem solving is becoming less important. Because if your customer or your prospect knows exactly what their problem is they can find a solution without you. They don't need you. You know, and so the premium has shifted to the skill of problem finding. Can you service latent problems? Can you look down the road and anticipate problems? Can you see around corners? And, that's going to be incredibly important in this world of machine learning and AI, where simply expressed problems will be solved that way. And, what we human beings have to do is figure out the right problems to solve, anticipate problems, you know really, see around corners and do that kind of thing. >> So, you basically advised the COs to tune in, deal with rejection and make things more clear and curate. >> Absolutely, absolutely, right, right, right. And, the information thing is big because, you know, in anything, not only the CIOs but in any realm. It used to be that expertise came from having access to information. Think about in the world of finance, at a certain point only stock brokers could find out what the stock price was. Only stock brokers had certain kinds of information about how a company was performing. So, I'm an expert. Why? 'Cause I have the key where the information is locked up. Now, everybody does, so what do you do if you want to be a financial professional? Well, you'd better be really good at synthesizing information, making sense of it, separating the signal and the noise from the information. >> What were some of the more interesting question that you got from the CIOs audience? >> There was a couple of interesting questions about well, there was a couple of questions about introversion, extroversion and how much you can change your personality, which is minimally. I mean, you can make a small move to, you can make a small move to the middle. There was a question about, a very good question for these CIOs in particular 'cause most of them are dealing with multi-national firms and employees and customers all around the world, is how much national differences make a, how much national differences are important. And, there is some, there's some very interesting stuff on that. For instance, if you look at, it's not a shocker, but if you look at like if you're selling or persuading say in a Japanese, East Asian culture, very much more hierarchical than it would be here. Like you guys would not be Jeff and Dave from the get go, you know. >> Right, right. >> It would be like, oh wait a second, wait a second. These guys have ear pieces and ties. Whoa, wait a second, I better you know, be much more hierarchical in how I deal with them. Or, in certain Latin cultures, Brazil is a good example, if you and I were to do business together we wouldn't even talk business at our first meeting. We would go out to dinner. We would have a meal. So, there's that kind of cultural nuance stuff. There's one thing that I tried to explain to them that Americans stink at. It's one of the biggest cognitive errors that Americans make and it's this. When we Americans try to explain people's behavior or predict people's behavior we almost always overstate the importance of someone's personality and understate the importance of the context that they're in. So, we look at, oh, Jeff did that 'cause he's a jerk. Dave did that 'cause he's a nice guy. Freida did that because she's mean, you know. And, we don't and we disregard what context they're in and when we look at our own behavior we behave very differently in different contexts. If you were to drive with me you would think I was the worst person on the planet. I mean, truly, like in that context I'm just miserable, I'm mean spirited 'cause I can't stand doing it. Otherwise, I'm okay, you know. And so, again if you go to East Asian cultures, East Asian cultures will look at the entire fish tank rather than the fish that's in the foreground. And so, as a consequence, they say, oh well, Pink Sun was you know, maybe he was having a bad day or maybe Pink Sun doesn't like to drive or when Pink Sun's with his family he's a nicer guy and that kind of stuff. Americans, they say, that guy's a jerk. >> Alright, we got to wrap up. What Jeff really and I want to know is, does this work on our kids? >> The short answer, absolutely. >> Alright, Terry. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Alright, thanks you guys. >> Alright, keep it right there. We're going to be back with our next guest right after this. This is Knowledge17. Be right back.