(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to the special Cube conversation that we're launching in conjunction with Pure Accelerate. Prakash Darji is here, is the general manager of Digital Experience. They actually have a business unit dedicated to this at Pure Storage. Prakash, welcome back, good to see you. >> Yeah Dave, happy to be here. >> So a few weeks back, you and I were talking about the Shift 2 and as a service economy and which is a good lead up to Accelerate, held today, we're releasing this video in LA. This is the fifth in person Accelerate. It's got a new tagline techfest so you're making it fun, but still hanging out to the tech, which we love. So this morning you guys made some announcements expanding the portfolio. I'm really interested in your reaffirmed commitment to Evergreen. That's something that got this whole trend started in the introduction of Evergreen Flex. What is that all about? What's your vision for Evergreen Flex? >> Well, so look, this is one of the biggest moments that I think we have as a company now, because we introduced Evergreen and that was and probably still is one of the largest disruptions to happen to the industry in a decade. Now, Evergreen Flex takes the power of modernizing performance and capacity to storage beyond the box, full stop. So we first started on a project many years ago to say, okay, how can we bring that modernization concept to our entire portfolio? That means if someone's got 10 boxes, how do you modernize performance and capacity across 10 boxes or across maybe FlashBlade and FlashArray. So with Evergreen Flex, we first are starting to hyper disaggregate performance and capacity and the capacity can be moved to where you need it. So previously, you could have thought of a box saying, okay, it has this performance or capacity range or boundary, but let's think about it beyond the box. Let's think about it as a portfolio. My application needs performance or capacity for storage, what if I could bring the resources to it? So with Evergreen Flex within the QLC family with our FlashBlade and our FlashArray QLC projects, you could actually move QLC capacity to where you need it. And with FlashArray X and XL or TLC family, you could move capacity to where you need it within that family. Now, if you're enabling that, you have to change the business model because the capacity needs to get build where you use it. If you use it in a high performance tier, you could build at a high performance rate. If you use it as a lower performance tier, you could build at a lower performance rate. So we changed the business model to enable this technology flexibility, where customers can buy the hardware and they get a pay per use consumption model for the software and services, but this enables the technology flexibility to use your capacity wherever you need. And we're just continuing that journey of hyper disaggregated. >> Okay, so you solve the problem of having to allocate specific capacity or performance to a particular workload. You can now spread that across whatever products in the portfolio, like you said, you're disaggregating performance and capacity. So that's very cool. Maybe you could double click on that. You obviously talk to customers about doing this. They were in pain a little bit, right? 'Cause they had this sort of stovepipe thing. So talk a little bit about the customer feedback that led you here. >> Well, look, let's just say today if you're an application developer or you haven't written your app yet, but you know you're going to. Well, you need that at least say I need something, right? So someone's going to ask you what kind of storage do you need? How many IOPS, what kind of performance capacity, before you've written your code. And you're going to buy something and you're going to spend that money. Now at that point, you're going to go write your application, run it on that box and then say, okay, was I right or was I wrong? And you know what? You were guessing before you wrote the software. After you wrote the software, you can test it and decide what you need, how it's going to scale, et cetera. But if you were wrong, you already bought something. In a hyper disaggregated world, that capacity is not a sunk cost, you can use it wherever you want. You can use capacity of somewhere else and bring it over there. So in the world of application development and in the world of storage, today people think about, I've got a workload, it's SAP, it's Oracle, I've built this custom app. I need to move it to a tier of storage, a performance class. Like you think about the application and you think about moving the application. And it takes time to move the application, takes performance, takes loan, it's a scheduled event. What if you said, you know what? You don't have to do any of that. You just move the capacity to where you need it, right? >> Yep. >> So the application's there and you actually have the ability to instantaneously move the capacity to where you need it for the application. And eventually, where we're going is we're looking to do the same thing across the performance hearing. So right now, the biggest benefit is the agility and flexibility a customer has across their fleet. So Evergreen was great for the customer with one array, but Evergreen Flex now brings that power to the entire fleet. And that's not tied to just FlashArray or FlashBlade. We've engineered a data plane in our direct flash fabric software to be able to take on the personality of the system it needs to go into. So when a data pack goes into a FlashBlade, that data pack is optimized for use in that scale out architecture with the metadata for FlashBlade. When it goes into a FlashArray C it's optimized for that metadata structure. So our Purity software has made this transformative to be able to do this. And we created a business model that allowed us to take advantage of this technology flexibility. >> Got it. Okay, so you got this mutually interchangeable performance and capacity across the portfolio beautiful. And I want to come back to sort of the Purity, but help me understand how this is different from just normal Evergreen, existing evergreen options. You mentioned the one array, but help us understand that more fully. >> Well, look, so in addition to this, like we had Evergreen Gold historically. We introduced Evergreen Flex and we had Pure as a service. So you had kind of two spectrums previously. You had Evergreen Gold on one hand, which modernized the performance and capacity of a box. You had Pure as a service that said don't worry about the box, tell me how many IOPS you have and will run and operate and manage that service for you. I think we've spoken about that previously on theCUBE. >> Yep. >> Now, we have this model where it's not just about the box, we have this model where we say, you know what, it's your fleet. You're going to run and operate and manage your fleet and you could move the capacity to where you need it. So as we started thinking about this, we decided to unify our entire portfolio of sub software and subscription services under the Evergreen brand. Evergreen Gold we're renaming to Evergreen Forever. We've actually had seven customers just crossed a decade of updates Forever Evergreen within a box. So Evergreen Forever is about modernizing a box. Evergreen Flex is about modernizing your fleet and Evergreen one, which is our rebrand of Pure as a service is about modernizing your labor. Instead of you worrying about it, let us do it for you. Because if you're an application developer and you're trying to figure out, where should I put my capacity? Where should I do it? You can just sign up for the IOPS you need and let us actually deliver and move the components to where you need it for performance, capacity, management, SLAs, et cetera. So as we think about this, for us this is a spectrum and a continuum of where you're at in the modernization journey to software subscription and services. >> Okay, got it. So why did you feel like now was the right time for the rebranding and the renaming convention, what's behind? What was the thing? Take us inside the internal conversations and the chalkboard discussion? >> Well, look, the chalkboard discussion's simple. It's everything was built on the Evergreen stateless architecture where within a box, right? We disaggregated the performance and capacity within the box already, 10 years ago within Evergreen. And that's what enabled us to build Pure as a service. That's why I say like when companies say they built a service, I'm like it's not a service if you have to do a data migration. You need a stateless architecture that's disaggregated. You can almost think of this as the anti hyper-converge, right? That's going the other way. It's hyper disaggregated. >> Right. >> And that foundation is true for our whole portfolio. That was fundamental, the Evergreen architecture. And then if Gold is modernizing a box and Flex is modernizing your fleet and your portfolio and Pure as a service is modernizing the labor, it is more of a continuation in the spectrum of how do you ensure you get better with age, right? And it's like one of those things when you think about a car. Miles driven on a car means your car's getting older and it doesn't necessarily get better with age, right? What's interesting when you think about the human body, yeah, you get older and some people deteriorate with age and some people it turns out for a period of time, you pick up some muscle mass, you get a little bit older, you get a little bit wiser and you get a little bit better with age for a while because you're putting in the work to modernize, right? But where in infrastructure and hardware and technology are you at the point where it always just gets better with age, right? We've introduced that concept 10 years ago. And we've now had proven industry success over a decade, right? As I mentioned, our first seven customers who've had a decade of Evergreen update started with an FA-300 way back when, and since then performance and capacity has been getting better over time with Evergreen Forever. So this is the next 10 years of it getting better and better for the company and not just tying it to the box because now we've grown up, we've got customers with like large fleets. I think one of our customers just hit 900 systems, right? >> Wow. >> So when you have 900 systems, right? And you're running a fleet you need to think about, okay, how am I using these resources? And in this day and age in that world, power becomes a big thing because if you're using resources inefficiently and the cost of power and energy is up, you're going to be in a world of hurt. So by using Flex where you can move the capacity to where it's needed, you're creating the most efficient operating environment, which is actually the lowest power consumption environment as well. >> Right. >> So we're really excited about this journey of modernizing, but that rebranding just became kind of a no brainer to us because it's all part of the spectrum on your journey of whether you're a single array customer, you're a fleet customer, or you don't want to even run, operate and manage. You can actually just say, you know what, give me the guarantee in the SLA. So that's the spectrum that informed the rebranding. >> Got it. Yeah, so to your point about the human body, all you got to do is look at Tom Brady's NFL combine videos and you'll see what a transformation. Fine wine is another one. I like the term hyper disaggregated because that to me is consistent with what's happening with the cloud and edge. We're building this hyper distributed or disaggregated system. So I want to just understand a little bit about you mentioned Purity so there's this software obviously is the enabler here, but what's under the covers? Is it like a virtualizer or megaload balancer, metadata manager, what's the tech behind this? >> Yeah, so we'll do a little bit of a double tech, right? So we have this concept of drives where in Purity, we build our own software for direct flash that takes the NAND and we do the NAND management as we're building our drives in Purity software. Now ,that advantage gives us the ability to say how should this drive behave? So in a FlashArray C system, it can behave as part of a FlashArray C and its usable capacity that you can write because the metadata and some of the system information is in NVRAM as part of the controller, right? So you have some metadata capability there. In a legend architecture for example, you have a distributed Blade architecture. So you need parts of that capacity to operate almost like a single layer chip where you can actually have metadata operations independent of your storage operations that operate like QLC. So we actually manage the NAND in a very very different way based on the persona of the system it's going into, right? So this capacity to make it usable, right? It's like saying a competitor could go ahead name it, Dell that has power max in Isilon, HPE that has single store and three power and nimble and like you name, like can you really from a technology standpoint say your capacity can be used anywhere or all these independent systems. Everyone's thinking about the world like a system, like here's this system, here's that system, here's that system. And your capacity is locked into a system. To be able to unlock that capacity to the system, you need to behave differently with the media type in the operating environment you're going into and that's what Purity does, right? So we are doing that as part of our direct Flex software around how we manage these drives to enable this. >> Well, it's the same thing in the cloud precaution, right? I mean, you got different APIs and primitive for object, for block, for file. Now, it's all programmable infrastructure so that makes it easier, but to the point, it's still somewhat stovepipe. So it's funny, it's good to see your commitment to Evergreen, I think you're right. You lay down the gauntlet a decade plus ago. First everybody ignored you and then they kind of laughed at you, then they criticized you, and then they said, oh, then you guys reached the escape velocity. So you had a winning hand. So I'm interested in that sort of progression over the past decade where you're going, why this is so important to your customers, where you're trying to get them ultimately. >> Well, look, the thing that's most disappointing is if I bought 100 terabytes still have to re-buy it every three or five years. That seems like a kind of ridiculous proposition, but welcome to storage. You know what I mean? That's what most people do with Evergreen. We want to end data migrations. We want to make sure that every software updates, hardware updates, non disruptive. We want to make it easy to deploy and run at scale for your fleet. And eventually we want everyone to move to our Evergreen one, formerly Pure as a service where we can run and operate and manage 'cause this is all about trust. We're trying to create trust with the customer to say, trust us, to run and operate and scale for you and worry about your business because we make tech easy. And like think about this hyper disaggregated if you go further. If you're going further with hyper disaggregated, you can think about it as like performance and capacity is your Lego building blocks. Now for anyone, I have a son, he wants to build a Lego Death Star. He didn't have that manual, he's toast. So when you move to at scale and you have this hyper disaggregated world and you have this unlimited freedom, you have unlimited choice. It's the problem of the cloud today, too much choice, right? There's like hundreds of instances of this, what do I even choose? >> Right. >> Well, so the only way to solve that problem and create simplicity when you have so much choice is put data to work. And that's where Pure one comes in because we've been collecting and we can scan your landscape and tell you, you should move these types of resources here and move those types of resources there, right? In the past, it was always about you should move this application there or you should move this application there. We're actually going to turn the entire industry on it's head. It's not like applications and data have gravity. So let's think about moving resources to where that are needed versus saying resources are a fixed asset, let's move the applications there. So that's a concept that's new to the industry. Like we're creating that concept, we're introducing that concept because now we have the technology to make that reality a new efficient way of running storage for the world. Like this is that big for the company. >> Well, I mean, a lot of the failures in data analytics and data strategies are a function of trying to jam everything into a single monolithic system and hyper centralize it. Data by its very nature is distributed. So hyper disaggregated fits that model and the pendulum's clearly swinging to that. Prakash, great to have you, purestorage.com I presume is where I can learn more? >> Oh, absolutely. We're super excited and our pent up by demand I think in this space is huge so we're looking forward to bringing this innovation to the world. >> All right, hey, thanks again. Great to see you, I appreciate you coming on and explaining this new model and good luck with it. >> All right, thank you. >> All right, and thanks for watching. This is David Vellante, and appreciate you watching this Cube conversation, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(Intro Music) >> Hello everyone and welcome to this special cube conversation with Matt Burr who is the general manager of FlashBlade at Pure Storage. Matt, how you doing? Good to see you. >> I'm doing great. Nice to see you again, Dave. >> Yeah. You know, welcome back. We're going to be broadcasting this is at accelerate. You guys get big news. Of course, FlashBlade S we're going to dig into it. The famous FlashBlade now has new letter attached to it. Tell us what it is, what it's all about. >> (laughing) >> You know, it's easy to say. It's just the latest and greatest version of the FlashBlade, but obviously it's a lot more than that. We've had a lot of success with FlashBlade kind of across the board in particular with Meta and their research super cluster, which is one of the largest AI super clusters in the world. But, it's not enough to just build on the thing that you had, right? So, with the FlashBlade S, we've increased modularity, we've done things like, building co-design software and hardware and leveraging that into something that increases, or it actually doubles density, performance, power efficiency. On top of that, you can scale independently, storage, networking, and compute, which is pretty big deal because it gives you more flexibility, gives you a little more granularity around performance or capacity, depending on which direction you want to go. And we believe that, kind of the end of this is fundamentally the, I guess, the way to put it is sort of the highest performance and capacity optimization, unstructured data platform on the market today without the need for, kind of, an expensive data tier of cash or expected data cash and tier. So we're pretty excited about, what we've ended up with here. >> Yeah. So I think sometimes people forget, about how much core engineering Meta does. Facebook, you go on Facebook and play around and post things, but yeah, their backend cloud is just amazing. So talk a little bit more about the problem targets for FlashBlade. I mean, it's pretty wide scope and we're going to get into that, but what's the core of that. >> Yeah. We've talked about that extensively in the past, the use cases kind of generally remain the same. I know, we'll probably explore this a little bit more deeply, but you know, really what we're talking about here is performance and scalability. We have written essentially an unlimited Metadata software level, which gives us the ability to expand, we're already starting to think about computing an exabyte scale. Okay. So, the problem that the customer has of, Hey, I've got a Greenfield, object environment, or I've got a file environment and my 10 K and 7,500 RPM disc is just spiraling out of control in my environment. It's an environmental problem. It's a management problem, we have effectively, simplified the process of bringing together highly performant, very large multi petabyte to eventually exabyte scale unstructured data systems. >> So people are obviously trying to inject machine intelligence, AI, ML into applications, bring data into applications, bringing those worlds closer together. Analytics is obviously exploding. You see some other things happening in the news, read somewhere, protection and the like, where does FlashBlade fit in terms of FlashBlade S in some terms of some of these new use cases. >> All those things, we're only going wider and broader. So, we've talked in the past about having a having a horizontal approach to this market. The unstructured data market has often had vertical specificity. You could see successful infrastructure companies in oil and gas that may not play median entertainment, where you see, successful companies that play in media entertainment, but don't play well in financial services, for example. We're sort of playing the long game here with this and we're focused on, bringing an all Q L C architecture that combines our traditional kind of pure DFM with the software that is, now I guess seven years hardened from the original FlashBlade system. And so, when we look at customers and we look at kind of customers in three categories, right, we have customers that sort of fit into a very traditional, more than three, but kind of make bucketized this way, customers that fit into kind of this EDA HPC space, then you have that sort of data protection, which I believe kind of ransomware falls under that as well. The world has changed, right? So customers want their data back faster. Rapid restore is a real thing, right? We have customers that come to us and say, anybody can back up my data, but if I want to get something back fast and I mean in less than a week or a couple days, what do I do? So we can solve that problem. And then as you sort of accurately pointed out where you started, there is the AI ML side of things where the Invidia relationship that we have, right. DGX is are a pretty powerful weapon in that market and solving those problems. But they're not cheap. And keeping those DGX's running all the time requires an extremely efficient underpinning of a flash system. And we believe we have that market as well. >> It's interesting when pure was first coming out as a startup, you obviously had some cool new tech, but you know, your stack wasn't as hard. And now you've got seven years under your belt. The last time you were on the cube, we talked about some of the things that you guys were doing differently. We talked about UFFO, unified fast file and object. How does this new product, FlashBlade S, compare to some previous generations of FlashBlade in terms of solving unstructured data and some of these other trends that we've been talking about? >> Yeah. I touched on this a little bit earlier, but I want to go a little bit deeper on this concept of modularity. So for those that are familiar with Pure Storage, we have what's called the evergreen storage program. It's not as much a program as it is an engineering philosophy. The belief that everything we build should be modular in nature so that we can have essentially a chassi that has an a 100% modular components inside of it. Such that we can upgrade all of those features, non disruptively from one version to the next, you should think about that as you know, if you have an iPhone, when you go get a new iPhone, what do you do with your old iPhone? You either throw it away or you sell it. Well, imagine if your iPhone just got newer and better each time you renewed your, whatever it is, two year or three year subscription with apple. That's effectively what we have as a core philosophy, core operating engineering philosophy within pure. That is now a completely full and robust program with this instantiation of the FlashBlade S. And so kind of what that means is, for a customer I'm future proofed for X number of years, knowing that we have a run rate of being able to keep customers on the flash array side from the FA 400 all the way through the flash array X and Excel, which is about a 10 year time span. So, that then, and of itself sort of starts to play into customers that have concerns around ESG. Right? Last time I checked power space and cooling, still mattered in data center. So although I have people that tell me all the time, power space clearly doesn't matter anymore, but I know at the end of the day, most customers seem to say that it does, you're not throwing away refrigerator size pieces of equipment that once held spinning disc, something that's a size of a microwave that's populated with DFMs with all LC flash that you can actually upgrade over time. So if you want to scale more performance, we can do that through adding CPU. If you want to scale more capacity, we can do that through adding more And we're in control of those parameters because we're building our own DFM, our direct fabric modules on our own storage notes, if you will. So instead of relying on the consumer packaging of an SSD, we're upgrading our own stuff and growing it as we can. So again, on the ESG side, I think for many customers going into the next decade, it's going to be a huge deal. >> Yeah. Interesting comments, Matt. I mean, I don't know if you guys invented it, but you certainly popularize the idea of, no Fort lift upgrades and sort of set the industry on its head when you guys really drove that evergreen strategy and kind of on that note, you guys talk about simplicity. I remember last accelerate went deep with cause on your philosophy of keeping things simple, keeping things uncomplicated, you guys talk about using better science to do that. And you a lot of talk these days about outcomes. How does FlashBlade S support those claims and what do you guys mean by better science? >> Yeah. You know, better science is kind of a funny term. It was an internal term that I was on a sales call actually. And the customer said, well, I understand the difference between these two, but could you tell me how we got there and I was a little stumped on the answer. And I just said, well, I think we have better scientists and that kind of morphed into better science, a good example of that is our Metadata architecture, right? So our scalable Metadata allows us to avoid having that cashing tier, that other architectures have to rely on in order to anticipate, which files are going to need to be in read cash and read misses become very expensive. Now, a good follow up question there, not to do your job, but it's the question that I always get is, well, when you're designing your own hardware and your own software, what's the real material advantage of that? Well, the real material advantage of that is that you are in control of the combination and the interaction of those two things you don't give up the sort of the general purpose nature, if you will, of the performance characteristics that come along with things like commodity, you get a very specific performance profile. That's tailored to the software that's being married to it. Now in some instances you could say, well, okay, does that really matter? Well, when you start to talking about 20, 40, 50, 100, 500, petabyte data sets, every percentage matters. And so those individual percentages equate to space savings. They equate to power and cooling savings. We believe that we're going to have industry best dollars per lot. We're going to have industry best, kind of dollar PRU. So really the whole kind of game here is a round scale. >> Yeah. I mean, look, there's clearly places for the pure software defined. And then when cloud first came out, everybody said, oh, build the cloud and commodity, they don't build custom art. Now you see all the hyper scalers building custom software, custom hardware and software integration, custom Silicon. So co-innovation between hardware and software. It seems pretty as important, if not more important than ever, especially for some of these new workloads who knows what the edge is going to bring. What's the downside of not having that philosophy in your view? Is it just, you can't scale to the degree that you want, you can't support the new workloads or performance? What should customers be thinking about there? >> I think the downside plays in two ways. First is kind of the future and at scale, as I alluded to earlier around cost and just savings over time. Right? So if you're using a you know a commodity SSD, there's packaging around that SSD that is wasteful both in terms of- It's wasteful in the environmental sense and wasteful in the sort of computing performance sense. So that's kind of one thing. On the second side, it's easier for us to control the controllables around reliability when you can eliminate the number of things that actually sit in that workflow and by workflow, I mean when a right is acknowledged from a host and it gets down to the media, the more control you have over that, the more reliability you have over that piece. >> Yeah. I know. And we talked about ESG earlier. I know you guys, I'm going to talk a little bit about more news from accelerate within Invidia. You've certainly heard Jensen talk about the wasted CPU cycles in the data center. I think he's forecasted, 25 to 30% of the cycles are wasted on doing things like storage offload, or certainly networking and security. So now it sort of confirms your ESG thought, we can do things more efficiently, but as it relates to Invidia and some of the news around AIRI's, what is the AI RI? What's that stand for? What's the high level overview of AIRI. >> So the AIRI has been really successful for both us and Invidia. It's a really great partnership we're appreciative of the partnership. In fact, Tony pack day will be speaking here at accelerate. So, really looking forward to that, Look, there's a couple ways to look at this and I take the macro view on this. I know that there's a equally as good of a micro example, but I think the macro is really kind of where it's at. We don't have data center space anymore, right? There's only so many data centers we can build. There's only so much power we can create. We are going to reach a point in time where municipalities are going to struggle against the businesses that are in their municipalities for power. And now you're essentially bidding big corporations against people who have an electric bill. And that's only going to last so long, you know who doesn't win in that? The big corporation doesn't win in that. Because elected officials will have to find a way to serve the people so that they can get power. No matter how skewed we think that may be. That is the reality. And so, as we look at this transition, that first decade of disc to flash transition was really in the block world. The second decade, which it's really fortunate to have a multi decade company, of course. But the second decade of riding that wave from disk to flash is about improving space, power, efficiency, and density. And we sort of reach that, it's a long way of getting to the point about iMedia where these AI clusters are extremely powerful things. And they're only going to get bigger, right? They're not going to get smaller. It's not like anybody out there saying, oh, it's a Thad, or, this isn't going to be something that's going to yield any results or outcomes. They yield tremendous outcomes in healthcare. They yield tremendous outcomes in financial services. They use tremendous outcome in cancer research, right? These are not things that we as a society are going to give up. And in fact, we're going to want to invest more on them, but they come at a cost and one of the resources that is required is power. And so when you look at what we've done in particular with Invidia. You found something that is extremely power efficient that meets the needs of kind of going back to that macro view of both the community and the business. It's a win-win. >> You know and you're right. It's not going to get smaller. It's just going to continue to in momentum, but it could get increasingly distributed. And you think about, I talked about the edge earlier. You think about AI inferencing at the edge. I think about Bitcoin mining, it's very distributed, but it consumes a lot of power and so we're not exactly sure what the next level architecture is, but we do know that science is going to be behind it. Talk a little bit more about your Invidia relationship, because I think you guys were the first, I might be wrong about this, but I think you were the first storage company to announce a partnership with Invidia several years ago, probably four years ago. How is this new solution with a AIRI slash S building on that partnership? What can we expect with Invidia going forward? >> Yeah. I think what you can expect to see is putting the foot on the gas on kind of where we've been with Invidia. So, as I mentioned earlier Meta is by some measurements, the world's largest research super cluster, they're a huge Invidia customer and built on pure infrastructure. So we see kind of those types of well reference architectures, not that everyone's going to have a Meta scale reference architecture, but the base principles of what they're solving for are the base principles of what we're going to begin to see in the enterprise. I know that begin sounds like a strange word because there's already a big business in DGX. There's already a sizable business in performance, unstructured data. But those are only going to get exponentially bigger from here. So kind of what we see is a deepening and a strengthening of the of the relationship and opportunity for us to talk, jointly to customers that are going to be building these big facilities and big data centers for these types of compute related problems and talking about efficiency, right? DGX are much more efficient and Flash Blades are much more efficient. It's a great pairing. >> Yeah. I mean you're definitely, a lot of AI today is modeling in the cloud, seeing HPC and data just slam together all kinds of new use cases. And these types of partnerships are the only way that we're going to solve the future problems and go after these future opportunities. I'll give you a last word you got to be excited with accelerate, what should people be looking for, add accelerate and beyond. >> You know, look, I am really excited. This is going on my 12th year at Pure Storage, which has to be seven or eight accelerates whenever we started this thing. So it's a great time of the year, maybe take a couple off because of because of COVID, but I love reconnecting in particular with partners and customers and just hearing kind of what they have to say. And this is kind of a nice one. This is four years or five years worth of work for my team who candidly I'm extremely proud of for choosing to take on some of the solutions that they, or excuse me, some of the problems that they chose to take on and find solutions for. So as accelerate roles around, I think we have some pretty interesting evolutions of the evergreen program coming to be announced. We have some exciting announcements in the other product arenas as well, but the big one for this event is FlashBlade. And I think that we will see. Look, no one's going to completely control this transition from disc to flash, right? That's a that's a macro trend. But there are these points in time where individual companies can sort of accelerate the pace at which it's happening. And that happens through cost, it happens through performance. My personal belief is this will be one of the largest points of those types of acceleration in this transformation from disc to flash and unstructured data. This is such a leap. This is essentially the equivalent of us going from the 400 series on the block side to the X, for those that you're familiar with the flash array lines. So it's a huge, huge leap for us. I think it's a huge leap for the market. And look, I think you should be proud of the company you work for. And I am immensely proud of what we've created here. And I think one of the things that is a good joy in life is to be able to talk to customers about things you care about. I've always told people my whole life, inefficiency is the bane of my existence. And I think we've rooted out ton of inefficiency with this product and looking forward to going and reclaiming a bunch of data center space and power without sacrificing any performance. >> Well congratulations on making it into the second decade. And I'm looking forward to the orange and the third decade, Matt Burr, thanks so much for coming back in the cubes. It's good to see you. >> Thanks, Dave. Nice to see you as well. We appreciate it. >> All right. And thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube. And we'll see you next time. (outro music)

>>Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm John fury host of the cube here in Palo Alto, California. We're talking open source. We're talking about the data center. We're talking about cloud scale, bringing that software benefits all to the table, all around the network, the network operating system, and more gotta go a guest here, sir. Rob Capor director of product management, Dell networking, sir. Rob. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you, John. Good to be here. Thanks for inviting me. >>You know, we were talking before we came on camera around how the networking business is changing, why hardware matters, why software's more important. And in all of this shift, that's happening in the transition to fully distributed computing, which Matt, you got the edge, you got the data center, you got the cloud all coming together. One of the common threads in all of this is open source. Okay. Open source software, next generations coming. You're seeing more and more new cool things in open source, but also in parallel with the enterprise. This is a huge kind of flash point to the next gen open source enterprise convergence with, with open source software and the communities and all and all that, all that good stuff. And you're in the middle of it. What's driving this Hmm. Source and the data center. We're seeing the levels of support like we've never seen before and specifically at the network level. >>Awesome. Yeah. So, well, to set the context, let's start by looking at the story of comput solution, right? Uh, in the nineties, the comput infrastructure was vertically integrated. Uh, there were multiple vendors each offering their own operating system, usually a version of hearings, uh, on, on the proprietary hardwares. If I wanted to run a Solas operating system, I had to run that over a Spoor and the applications were written, especially for, for that architecture. So, so this represented multiple challenges back then the customer were locked in growth and innovation developers had to recreate applications for, for different architectures and, and the interoperability was extremely difficult, but with the advent of X 86 architecture and standardized operating systems like like windows and Linux, the stack got disaggregated, which allowed for flexibility, innovation, affordability and finding expand engine. We see a similar trend happening on the networking side now where the traditional networking solutions, uh, are not flexible. >>The switch, the network operating system, the APIs are all provided by the same vendor. So if a feature is, is needed, the user has to either wait for the vendor to deliver it, or is forced to replace then time for structure. But with the of open networking and opensource networking based solutions, we see an evolution that has paved the way for the customers to unlock their data center technologies and innovate. The modern data center is, is no longer centered around protocol sax. It's about agility, flexibility, innovation, network automation, and simplicity. It's about how to make operations more agile, agile, more effective, and, and, you know, bake it into an overall infrastructure today. A large element of, uh, of, of business action behind open networking is that companies are moving towards application centricity and, and a true realization of as a service model. Right? So, so that is where Sonic comes into the picture, right? >>But it's large and diverse community around, around modular containers, architecture born in Microsoft as your environment, Sonic is, is built for automation, telemetry and scale. And the flexibility of this architecture allows you for, you know, in terms of running to applications by providing that high level of redundancy. So, so basically know Sonic kind of check marks to all the requirements of the modern data center from open flexible architectures to cloud economics. And if you have to follow a comput evolution analogy, we believe that, you know, switches is the server now in Sonic is the Linux for networking. >>It's like the Ker of networking. I mean, we'd be and reporting. We've had all the cube conversations where Sonic's been mentioned and people have been saying things like it's taking the networking world by storm. Um, and all, all that with open source kind of ties it and scales it together. Can you take a minute to explain a little bit about what it is? What is Sonic, what does it stand for? Why is it important? What does it do? What's the benefit to the customers? What are they, what what's going on around Sonic take a minute to explain what is Sonic. >>Absolutely. Yeah. So is Sonic stands for software for open talking in the cloud. It's a brain of Microsoft in, in 2016, they announced their contribution of Sonic to the open source community and, and through the networking technology to revolutionary set forward with the yet level of this aggregation by breaking the monolithic nos into multiple containers components. And, and through the use of ization, Sonic provides the, the network managers, the plug and place sensibility, the ability to run third party proprietary or open source application containers and, and perform those in-service updates with zero down time. Sonic is, is primarily designed across four main per principles. First one is the notion of control where, uh, Sonic is an open software organizations are deploying it, working on it. The network managers can decide what features they want to ship on a switch, so that there's less potential for bug and, and tailored for more of the use cases, right? >>Sonic was designed for extensibility for, uh, the developers to come and add new cable, roll those out rapidly on, on a platform. Uh it's it was designed for agility. The ability to take changes, roll those out rapidly, whether it's a bug fix or a new feature coming out, uh, which is significant. And finally Sonic was designed around this notion of open collaboration with such a diverse community around, we have Silicon vendors to ODM providers. It contribute is the more people work on it, the better and more like the software it becomes. Yeah. And, and it has >>Go ahead, continue. >>Yeah. I mean, it has evolved considerably and, and since it's inception, it's, uh, the growth is, is nurtured by an increasing set of users, uh, a vibrant open source community. Uh, and then there's a long, uh, trail of, of, of, you know, falling from, from the non-hyper killers where they like the value propers of technology and they want to adapt it for their environment. >>Yeah. And of course we love Silicon here at Silicon angle in the cube. Uh, but this is the whole new thing. Silicon advances is still software hardware matters. Dave LAN is doing a big thing called on why hardware matters with our team hardware and software together with open source really is coming back smaller, faster, cheaper. It's really good. So I want to ask you about Sonic, what types of customers mm-hmm, <affirmative> what we looking to implement this, is this more of a, a reset in the data centers? Is it a cloud scale team? Is it distributing computing? What's the new look of the customer who are implementing the like so, so, >>Well, uh, you know, it has evolved considerably since it's ion, right. It was born into a hyperscale environment and we see a big 10 happening where, uh, you know, there's a wider appeal that is across non hyperscalers who want to emulate the best practices of the hyperscalers. They, but they want to do it on their own terms. They want a feature solution that is tailored for enterprise use cases. And, and, you know, looking at this whole contain architecture, Sonic kinda fits the build well where, you know, providing a Linux, no, that can be managed by the, the same set of automation management tools. Uh, and, and, you know, these are the same teams, you know, uh, that have, you know, been acclimated to the world on the server side. Now with this all tool consolidation and consistent operations across the data center infrastructure, we, we see that Sonic brings a lot of value, uh, to these distributed application use cases, these modern data center environments, where you, you know, you have, you know, customers looking for cloud economic, multi vendor ecosystem open and flexible architectures. And in fact, you know, uh, you know, we are told by the industry analyst that there's a strong possibility that, you know, during the next three to six years, Sonic is going to become analog as to Linux, uh, now allowing the enterprises to, to sanitize on this. No, and, and, and, you know, they also predict that, uh, you know, 40% of the organizations that have, you know, large data centers or 200 plus switches will deploy Sonic in production. And the market is going to be approximately 2.5 billion by, by 2025. >>You know, we've, we've always been riffing about the network layers, always the last area to kind of get the innovation because it's so important. I mean, right. If you look at the advances of cloud and cloud scale, obviously Amazon did great work, Amazon what starts with networking lay, what they did kind of with in the cloud, but even in the enterprise, it's so locked down, it's so important. Um, and things like policy, these are concepts that have been moving up the stack. We see that, but also software's moving down the stack, right? So this notion of a network operating system kind of out is in play at the data center level, not just on the server, you're talking about like packets and observability monitoring, you know, more and more and more data coming in. So with data surging, tsunami of data, new, um, agile architectures changing in real time dynamic policy, this is what's happening. What's the role of the Dell and all this, you guys got the hardware, um, you got the servers now it's open source, it's got community. What is Dell bringing to the table? What's your role in this development and the evolution of Sonic and, and what are you guys bringing to the table? >>Absolutely. So, so we are now, uh, enterprise Sonic distribution by Dell technologies, a commercial offering for Sonic in June last year. And our, our vision has been primarily to bridge the gap between hyperscale networking and enterprise networking. Right here we are, we are combining the strengths and value proposition of Sonic and Dell technologies where the customers get an innovative, scalable opensource NA, which is hard and supported and backed by industry leader in open networking. That has been, that has been our primary play into this where enterprise Sonic by Dell, we, we cus the customers, you know, get support and deployment services. Uh, we work with the customers in building out a roadmap that is, you know, predictable, soft, and hardware roadmap for them. Uh, we, we provide at extended and validated use cases where, uh, you know, they can leverage, you know, Sonic for their, you know, specific environments, whether it's a cloud environment or the enterprise environment, uh, we've created a partner ecosystem where, uh, you know, with, with certain organizations that allow you to leverage the inherent automation, telemetry capabilities in the NAS, uh, to enhance the usability of the software, we have, uh, created an intuitive CLI framework called management framework to allow you to better consume Sonic for your employment. >>We offer support for open conflict models and then also answerable playbooks for, for network automation. So, so it's been a journey, uh, you know, we are making the solution ready for enterprise consumption is a, a big fan falling that is happening the non hyperscale awards. And, uh, we made significant contributions in, in, in the community as well. Yeah. 1 million lines plus of court, what fixes and, and helping with the documentation. So we are at the forefront of, of so journey. >>So you're saying that you, you're saying Dell for the folks watching you guys are putting the work in you're investing in opensource. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, we, we are, uh, you know, extending open source to the bottom market, you know, making it enterprise ready, uh, with, with feature enhancements and building a partner ecosystem. Uh, you know, we, we ensure that, you know, it advanced through extensive internal testing and validation for the customers. And then, uh, in order to allow the customers to, of this new technology in house, uh, you know, we, we provide virtual demos. We have, you know, hands on labs for, for customers and channel partners. We, we also help them with, with a lot of documentation and reference architecture so that, you know, it's a knowledge repository across the board that can be leveraged for the modern use cases. So, yeah, so that's been a, it's been a journey with the customers, and it's always in evolution where we, you know, get better with, with extended use cases and, and more capabilities on the portfolio. >>You know, I always, I always talk with Michael Dell at the Dell tech world every year. And sometimes we text back and forth. Uh, we kind of grew up together in the industry about the same age. Um, and we joke about the Dell early days of Dell house supply chain was really part of their advantage. And this is getting a little bit of a throwback, but look back back then it was a systems architecture. You have suppliers, you have chips, you have boards, you build PCs, you build servers. And the DNA of Dell, Dell technologies has always been around this system. And with open source and tributed computing cloud data center edge, it's a system. And we're hearing words like supply chain in software, right? So when you start to think about Sonic and network operating systems and that kind of, those kinds of systems, when you modernize it, it's still gotta enable things to enable value. So what's the enabling value that Sonic has for the modern era here in computing as new kinds of supply chains emerge, new kinds of partnerships have to evolve. And the environment under the covers is changing too. You got cloud native, you got growth of containers. I think DACA was telling us that the container market there is pushing 20 million developers. I mean, massive cloud native activity and openside growth. This is a system. >>No, absolutely. I mean, uh, you know, the modern world has changed so much from, from, you know, the proprietary infrastructure and stacks. Now, uh, we tell, you know, becoming, uh, uh, you know, more software focused now because that's a real value, uh, that you bring to the customer is now it's all about application centricity. Nobody is talking about, you know, protocol stacks that, you know, they, they want simplicity. They want ease of network management. And how do you expose all these capabilities? It's it's software, right? Sonic being open software, there's so much happening, uh, in, in the community around it. We know we provide not bond interfaces that, you know, customers can hook up into their app applications and get better at monitoring, get better at, you know, managing that entire C I CD pipeline in the infrastructure. So I think, you know, soft is, is a core in the heart of, you know, the modern data center infrastructures today. And, you know, we've been, uh, you know, uh, uh, at the forefront of this journey with, with Sonic and, uh, you know, bringing the real choice and flexibility for the >>Customers. It's certainly an exciting time if you're in the data center, you're in, in architecture, cloud architecture, you're in data engineering, a new growing field, not just data science data is code. We did a big special on that recently in the cube, but also just overall scale. And so this, these are all new factors in C CXOs are dealing with obviously securities playing a big part of, and the role of data and also application developers all in play. The partner ecosystem becomes a really important part of, so I have to ask you, can you expand a little bit more on your comment earlier about the partner ecosystem and the importance of ways in providing a best in class service, because you're relying on others in open source, but you're commercializing Sonic with others. So there's a, the ecosystem play here. What's, what's talk more about that and, and the importance of it, >>Right, right. Yes, sir. As I mentioned earlier, right, the modern data center is no longer centered around protocol Sachs. It it's about agility, flexibility, choice, uh, network automation, simplicity. And based on these needs, we built up portfolio with, with plethora of options for, uh, you know, into open source tool chains and, and also building enterprise partnerships for, uh, with, with technologies that matter to the customers. Right? So, uh, the ecosystem partners, uh, are, are, you know, abstract, Juniper, um, Okta, and are crew that offer solutions at simplify network management and monitoring of, of massive complex networks and leverage the, the inherent automation telemetry capabilities in Sonic. It comes to the open source tools. Uh, you know, these, these are tools that, you know, the product, the, the tier two cloud at this point is the large enterprises also want based on how they're moving towards an open source based ecosystem. So we have, you know, created ible modules for network automation. We have integrated into opensource modeling tools like Telegraph or FA and pros. And then we are continue to, you know, scaling and expanding on these integrations and ecosystem partners, uh, to bring that choice, flexibility, uh, to the customers where, uh, you know, they can leverage the, the inherent software capabilities and leverage it to their application business needs. >>Rob, great to have you on the cube Sergeant Kalo, director of product management, Dell tech, Dell networking, Dell technologies, um, networking really important area. That's where the innovation is. It matters the most latency. You can't change their, the laws of physics, but you can certainly change architectures. This is kind of the new normal going on final point final comment. What can people expect to see around Sonic and where this goes? What, what happens next? How do you see this evolving? >>Well, there's a, uh, you know, I think we start of our journey to an exciting, you know, evolution on and networking happening with Sonic. There's so much this, this has to offer with, you know, a lot of technical value prop around microservices, container architecture with such a diverse community around it. There's, uh, a lot of feature addition, extended use cases that are coming up with Sonic. And we, we, we actively engage in the community with lot of feature enhancements and help also helping stay the com community in, in a direction that, you know, uh, bring Sonic to the wider market. So, uh, you know, I think this is, this is great, you know, start to a fantastic journey here. And, uh, we look forward to the exciting things that are coming on the Sonic journey. >>Awesome. Thanks for coming on. Great cube culture. We'll follow up more. I wanna track this Dell networking, networking it's important software operating systems. It's a system approach distributed computings back modernizing here with Dell technologies. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Awesome. Thank you, John. >>I'm John furry with the cube here in Palo Alto, California. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to this Cube Conversation kicking off 2022, I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're with Loris Degioanni, Chief Technology Officer and founder of Sysdig. A company that's in the pioneering cloud native and cloud native security, open source, big part of the CNCF, CUBECon coverage. Of course, we know them as of that environment as well as DockerCon which we've covered many times. Sysdig is a very successful company. Loris, welcome to theCUBE Conversation. >> Thank you and thanks for having me. >> Well, we know a lot about you, but a lot of folks are learning about you guys with your success. Congratulations on the funding and the validation of your product, which is not a surprise. We've been saying on theCUBE open source has been powering innovation for some time and getting stronger, faster. The predictions in the Linux Foundation about this open source contributions continue to be blown away by their projections and more and more is coming. A new generation is upon us. Cloud Native, Edge, Kubernetes. All of these things are powering a modern application environment which is changing business. And under the covers, you guys are a big part of it. So take us through who Sysdig is, what you guys do for the folks out there and let's get into it. Obviously open source is a big part of it. Take us through who is Sysdig and what do you guys do. >> Yeah, Sysdig helps you run your software in the cloud in a way that is secure and confidently. We have a security solution that covers containers, cloud and Kubernetes. And we cover you in the life cycle of modern application. So the Sysdig security platform helps you secure application in a way that ranges from like shift left in CSD and finding vulnerabilities in your CSD pipeline to run time security that is very important in the cloud in particular with orchestrated infrastructures like the ones that are run by Kubernetes. And then of course, everything that has to do with the forensics, threat-hunting and so on. And the world is changing, security is changing, and Sysdig is one of the startups, one of the companies that is at the forefront of true modern cloud native security. >> So I got to ask you. Were you sitting in your backyard one day thinking, hey, I'm going to start a company? How did this all come together? I mean, the originator story, because we saw open source, we saw even more before CNCF was formed, you saw what cloud was doing. Again, we saw OpenStack and all these other things happening around technology. What was the driver behind the founding of Sysdig, and then how did that progress? Because again, there's an open source component here I want to get into. >> Yeah, and it's interesting that you say backyard because actually Sysdig was actually started in my backyard. Just outside of here. So the backyard metaphor is very, very fitting here. And in a general way, let's say I come from a background in open source for a very long time. Sysdig is my second company. My first company was called Case Technologies. It was the company behind an open source network analyzer called Wireshark, which is widely used by millions and millions of people around the world to do network troubleshooting and network analysis. And when we were doing network packets, we were using like the network devices to collect information. The data that is being transferred on the network has some very nice properties, it's rich. It's very deep. When you can see and decode what's happening on the network, you can understand what applications are doing, what the users are doing. I used to say, packets never lie, right? Because you could connect to the router and collect this data and they have a very good picture without any two instrument libraries to link, to install stuff and so on. And all of a sudden, we're moving to the cloud and the router that was like the vintage point for this beautiful way of doing security and visibility disappears. And you're renting instances that are floating in the Amazon cloud. And when the world changed that way from one point of view, I was sure that what we're doing before was useful and was powerful for the users. But I was also sure, okay, the world is going to change. The retrofitted solutions are not going to work. We can take our product, but then we have the innovator dilemma. We have a product that we cannot completely radically change. So I decided let's start from scratch. Let's start Sysdig. Let's try to understand actually what this cloud is going, where containers are going. There's this new Kubernetes thing that everybody's talking about. What does it mean to offer deep, rich, but at the same time lightweight and easy to deploy security and visibility for this kind of new way of writing software and that's how Sysdig was born. >> So if I remember correctly back in that timeframe, that couple you said you found a millions people using that application. If I remember correctly, that was software network monitoring. Is that true? Is that open source at that time? Was that an open project or was that? >> Yeah, like Wireshark is a network analyzer and the software that we're doing was heavily open source oriented and was mostly software and there were also potentially appliances because this was data center more kind of stuff. >> That was before cloud even came here. So again, defined data center software and defined clouds happening. So again, good segue into kind of where security, you mentioned footprints, you can track people with packets. So to your point, is this the tie into security, tell us how this fits in with open source and security with the software piece? >> Yeah, what Sysdig did essentially, the idea was let's learn from our prior life. I always say that every new wave of technology is built on the shoulders of the previous one. And you'd never reinvent anything. You just apply it and evolve it. And the same thing we did with Sysdig. So we learned what was working with our previous approaches that were based on observing the applications behavior by looking essentially at network traffic, but we adapted it to modern infrastructures. And open source was our mantra before with Wireshark and became our mantra with Sysdig. Sysdig, the company name comes from the open source tool that we released was the first thing that we released in our company. And then few years later with Falco, which now is the premier open source project that was created by Sysdig and is now part of the CNCF, it's an incubating project. And it's essentially the runtime security tool for containers, Kubernetes, and cloud. >> Take us through that Falco, because I think this is an important distinction on your success trajectory because CNCF has a nice playbook where companies can contribute to the CNCF at the same time, that creates an open environment for all, and then have a business model tied to it. This is kind of a new, not new, but this is a successful way to be open source and have a commercial opportunity. >> Yeah, and very much a substantial portion of our commercial product is let's say an extension of Falco. But let's say our approach was like, let's first produce something that is truly useful for the community and fits in the proper way with the ecosystem, with the rest of the ecosystem. Nowadays in every field security as well, you don't build any more a single solution. You build something that needs to fit very well in the stack. Kubernetes, Prometers, network meshes and DCO and this kind of stuff, these all fit together. So Falco, which is the runtime security component needs to fit as well. So initially our focus was like, okay, we need to fill the gap of runtime security for containers, for Kubernetes, and also for cloud. But we need to do that in a way that is community first and data really helps, but also engages and takes advantage of the users, of the broader community. At that point, going to the CNCF and telling the CNCF, hey, look, we developed these, are you interested in partnering with us and being essentially the organization behind this project, was very natural. And that's what we did in 2016, sorry, 2018. 2016 is when Falco started, 2018. And at that point, you know, it's a great partnership because the CNCF is really a great home for all of these projects and really makes it possible for the users to trust a project in a way that they know that even if the commercial banker, even if the original creators, even if the team rotates and changes and evolves, the end users can still use this project, trust this project and know that it's community driven. And it's been a great journey for us. >> How would you describe what Falco is and what are the key use cases? >> Yeah, Falco is, I compare it to the security camera for your containers, your house and your cloud infrastructure. So the same way that the security camera allows you to observe maybe what's happening in your home, even if you have a lock, is still useful to have a security camera, right? To understand when something breaks in what they're doing, when they do it, get an alarm when something better happens. Similarly, in software infrastructures, you can still have your lock, your firewall and so on, but then you use a security camera like Falco that is able to observe every single container, every single process, every single machine, every single network connection and so on. Keep an eye on it and then it has sort of a points-based system that includes a bunch of policies that come essentially pre-packaged that allow the users to detect when something dangerous or suspicious happens in the infrastructure. For example, I don't know somebody is spawning or sharing their radius container. Or somebody is logging in AWS without multi-factor authentication. Falco keeps a constant eye and lets you know, it gives you an alert when something like that happens. >> You know what I love about what you guys do and kind of highlights what we've been saying on theCUBE for many, many years is that the networking concepts of the older generations have been moving up the stack with cloud because you got rule engines, policy automation, all these things are now part of connected systems. So if you have the cloud, which is essentially a distributed computing, you have more networks, more connections. And so the networking paradigms of packets can be moved over to software, well, software maintenance, if you will, or anything, any middleware, whatever you want to call it. I mean, this is kind of a new paradigm. So, what's your reaction to that? I want to get your take on this because this is kind of really happening. >> Yeah, and you are absolutely right. And what us as a Falco community or as Sysdig as a company is exactly that. We're taking the concepts that were maybe at the base of the previous generation of the data center in terms of policies, in terms of one clause and we're sort of elevating them to what modern cloud is. To give you an example, I don't know if you remember, but a Falco was inspired by a tool called Snort and the company also was Sourcefire. Snort used to listen on the network, constantly observe the network traffic and the deploy policies to tell you, okay, somebody uploaded a file from China and this file contains a malware. Now we do this, but we're able to see inside containers. We have cloud context. We understand the regions. We understand Kubernetes namespace and all these kinds of stuff. So we're able to put so much more context and be so much closer to the user, but the concepts are the same. We're just, as I was saying, sitting on the shoulders of people before us that invented this and we're modernizing them. >> Well, this is what refactoring is all about. This is the benefit of the cloud. I think, this is why a lot of the cloud native success is happening because companies are realizing that they can actually not just re platform in the cloud, but actually refactor their business, completely different. Using other paradigms and not necessarily rip and replace or just cut and paste. They can take concepts and codify them in their workloads, not necessarily general purpose. So again, key cloud concept and only going to get stronger with the edge developing. So again, more and more complexity, connected complexity. >> Yeah, complexity that more and more you manage through automation, right? Which is another key concept in the cloud. So we are able as a market, as a community to have and manage more and more complex infrastructures because we have tools that are able to automate, to take care of stuff for us, to potentially remediate, which is another big theme in modern security for us and so on. And of course, again, companies like Sysdig, try to really read these in the plight, in a proper way that can be the most possible useful. >> And hackers love complexity, right? And love chaos. And so unless you tame that with really good software, this is the key challenge. >> You need to manage chaos and you need good software to help you manage chaos. >> All right, final question for you. How is Sysdig and the Falco community working with AWS? >> Yeah, in a number of ways. One of the beauties, as I was telling before of essentially being built on an open source project like Falco is that you can really work together with cloud providers like AWS with mutual advantage. For example, AWS and team members at Amazon have done many contributions to Falco and the Sysdig system and integrations and so on. We partnered as Falco community and Sysdig with AWS to offer proper support for Falco versus the products on Fargate, which is, managed containers are the future, are very powerful. Everybody wants to go there, but then you need to make sure that you are covered, you have security from the point of view of severability and so on. Sysdig and AWS work together on doing a P trace based implementation, this is a technical thing, but essentially it means that a tool like Falco can give you invitations, can be the security camera for Fargate as well. And in general way, Amazon is a great partner for us on a daily basis as a community and as a company. >> Loris, you've got a great company there. And again, it was great to see you guys grow from the beginning and the wave is here. As they say, in California, you guys are riding the right wave. And I think it's just the beginning. I think you're going to see more and more security be programmable, built in, automated, under the covers, invisible, but working. And I think the same is going to be true for data and other things. So a lot more to do. And again, it's distributed computing. We've seen this movie before, but not in this environment. So new tools are coming and you guys are a big part of it. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing what you guys are doing and the technology behind Sysdig. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much and thank you for the great conversation. >> Okay, this is theCUBE I'm John Furrier your host for Cube conversations with Sysdig's Loris Degioanni, CTO of Sysdig. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)