(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to London everybody, this is Dave Vellante with The Cube, the leader in tech coverage, and we're here at AWS. We wanted to cover deeper the public sector activity. We've been covering this segment for quite some time, with the public sector summit in DC, went to Bahrain last year, and we wanted to extend that to London. We're doing a special coverage here with a number of public sector folks. Anjenesh Babu is here, he's a network manager at Oxford GLAM. Thanks very much for coming on The Cube, it's good to see you. >> Thank you.], thanks. >> GLAM, I love it. Gardens, libraries and museums, you even get the A in there, which everybody always leaves out. So tell us about Oxford GLAM. >> So we are part of the heritage collection side of the University. And I'm here representing the gardens and museums. In the divisions we've got world renown collections, which has been held for 400 years or more. It comprises of four different museums and the Oxford University Botanic Gardens and Arboretum. So in total, we're looking at five different divisions, spread across probably sixteen different sites, physical sites. And the main focus of the division is to bring out collections to the world, through digital outreach, engagement and being fun, bringing fun into the whole system. Sustainment is big, because we are basically custodians of our collections and it has to be here almost forever, in a sense. And we can only display about 1% of our collections at any one point and we've got about 8.5 million objects. So as you can imagine, the majority of that is in storage. So one way to bring this out to the wider world is to digitize them, curate them and present them, either online or in another form. So that is what we do. >> In your role as the network manager is to makes sure everything connects and works and stays up? Or maybe describe that a little more. >> So, I'm a systems architect and network manager for gardens and museums, so in my role, my primary focus is to bridge the gap between technical and the non-technical functions, within the department. And I also look after network and infrastructure sites, so there's two parts to the role, one is a BAU business as usual function where we keep the networks all going and keep the lights on, basically. The second part is bringing together designs, it's not just solving technical problems, so if I'm looking at a technical problem I step out and almost zoom out to see, what else are we looking at which could be connected, and solve the problem. For example, we could be looking at a web design solution in one part of the project, but it's not relevant just to that project. If you step out and say, we could do this in another part of the program, and we may be operating in silence and we want to breakdown those, that's part of my role as well. >> Okay, so you're technical but you also speak the language of the organization and business. We put it in quotes because you're not a business per say. Okay, so you're digitizing all these artifacts and then making them available 24/7, is that the idea? What are some of the challenges there? >> So the first challenge is only 3% of objects are actually digitized. So we have 1% on display, 3% is actually digitized, it's a huge effort, it's not just scanning or taking photographs, you've got cataloging, accessions and a whole raft of databases that goes behind. And museums historically have got their own separate database collection which is individually held different collection systems, but as public, you don't care, we don't care, we just need to look at the object. You don't want to see, that belongs to the Ashmolean Museum or the picture does. You just want to see, and see what the characteristics are. For that we are bringing together a layer, which integrates different museums, it sort of reflects what we're doing in out SIT. The museums are culturally diverse institutions and we want to keep them that way, because each has got its history, a kind of personality to it. Under the hood, the foundational architecture, systems remain the same, so we can make them modular, expandable and address the same problems. So that's how we are supporting this and making it more sustainable at the same time. >> So you have huge volume, quality is an issue because people want to see beautiful images. You got all this meta data that you're collecting, you have a classification challenge. So how are you architecting this system and what role does the Cloud play in there? >> So, in the first instance we are looking at a lot of collections were on premises in the past. We are moving as a SaaS solution at the first step. A lot of it requires cleansing of data, almost, this is the state of the images we aren't migrating, we sort of stop here let's cleanse it, create new data streams and then bring it to the Cloud. That's one option we are looking at and that is the most important one. But during all this process in the last three years with the GLAM digital program there's been huge amount of changes. To have a static sort of golden image has been really crucial. And to do that if we are going down rate of on premise and trying to build out, scale out infrastructures, it would have a huge cost. The first thing that I looked at was, explore the Cloud options and I was interested in solutions like Snowball and the Storage Gateway. Straightforward, loads up the data and it's on the Cloud, and then I can fill out the infrastructure as much as I want, because we can all rest easy, the main, day one data is in the Cloud, and it's safe, and we can start working on the rest of it. So it's almost like a transition mechanism where we start working on the data before it goes to the Cloud anyway. And I'm also looking at a Cloud clearing house, because there's a lot of data exchanges that are going to come up in the future, vendor to vendor, vendor to us and us to the public. So it sort of presents itself a kind of junction, who is going to fill the junction? I think the obvious answer is here. >> So Snowball or Gateway, basically you either Snowball or Gateway the assets into the Cloud and you decide which one to use based on the size and the cost associated with doing that, is that right? >> Yes, and convenience. I was saying this the other day at another presentation, it's addictive because it's so simple and straight forward to use, and you just go back and say it's taken me three days to transfer 30 terabytes into a Snowball appliance and on the fourth day, it appears in in my packets, so what are we missing? Nothing. Let's do it again next week. So you got the Snowball for 10 days, bring it in transfer, so it's much more straightforward than transferring it over the network, and you got to keep and eye on things. Not that it's not hard, so for example, the first workloads we transferred over to the file gateway, but there's a particular server which had problems getting things across the network, because of out dated OS on it. So we got the Snowball in and in a matter of three days the data was on the Cloud, so to effect every two weeks up on the Snowball, bring it in two weeks, in three days it goes up back on the Cloud. So there's huge, it doesn't cost us any more to keep it there, so the matter of deletions are no longer there. So just keep it on the Cloud shifting using lifecycle policies, and it's straight forward and simple. That's pretty much it. >> Well you understand physics and the fastest way to get from here to there is a truck sometimes, right? >> Well, literally it is one of the most efficient ways I've seen, and continues to be so. >> Yeah, simple in concept and it works. How much are you able to automate the end-to-end, the process that you're describing? >> At this point we have a few proof of concept of different things that we can automate, but largely because a lot of data is held across bespoke systems, so we've got 30 terabytes spread across sixteen hard disks, that's another use case in offices. We've got 22 terabytes, which I've just described, it's on a single server. We have 20 terabytes on another Windows server, so it's quite disparate, it's quite difficult to find common ground to automate it. As we move forward automation is going to come in, because we are looking at common interface like API Gateways and how they define that, and for that we are doing a lot of work with, we have been inspired a lot by the GDS API designs, and we are just calling this off and it works. That is a road we are looking at, but at the moment we don't have much in the way of automation. >> Can you talk a bit more about sustainability, you've mentioned that a couple of times, double click on that, what's the relevance, how are you achieving sustainability? Maybe you could give some examples. >> So in the past sustainability means that you buy a system and you over provision it, so you're looking for 20 terabytes over three years, lets go 50 terabytes. And something that's supposed to be here for three years gets kept going for five, and when it breaks the money comes in. So that was the kind of very brief way of sustaining things. That clearly wasn't enough, so in a way we are looking for sustainability from a new function say, we don't need to look at long-term service contracts we need to look at robust contracts, and having in place mechanisms to make sure that whatever data goes in, comes out as well. So that was the main driver and plus with the Cloud we are looking at the least model. We've got an annual expenditure set aside and that keeps it, sustainability is a lot about internal financial planning and based on skill sets. With the Cloud skill sets are really straightforward to find and we have engaged with quite a few vendors who are partnering with us, and they work with us to deliver work packages, so in a way even though we are getting there with the skills, in terms of training our team we don't need to worry about complex deployments, because we can outsource that in sprints. >> So you have shipped it from a CAPX to an OPX model, is that right? >> Yes >> So what was that like, I mean, was that life changing, was it exhilarating? >> It was exhilarating, it was phenomenally life changing, because it set up a new direction within the university, because we were the first division to go with the public Cloud and set up a contract. Again thanks to the G-Cloud 9 framework, and a brilliant account management team from AWS. So we shifted from the CAPX model to the OPX model with an understanding that all this would be considered as a leased service. In the past you would buy an asset, it depreciates, it's no longer the case, this is a leased model. The data belongs to us and it's straight forward. >> Amazon continues to innovate and you take advantage of those innovations, prices come down. How about performance in the cloud, what are you seeing there relative to your past experiences? >> I wouldn't say it's any different, perhaps slightly better, because the new SDS got the benefit of super fast bandwidth to the internet, so we've got 20 gigs as a whole and we use about 2 gigs at the moment, we had 10 gig. We had to downgrade it because, we didn't use that much. So from a bandwidth perspective that was the main thing. And a performance perspective what goes in the Cloud you frankly find no different, perhaps if anything they are probably better. >> Talk about security for a moment, how early on in the Cloud people were concerned about security, it seems to have attenuated, but security in the Cloud is different, is it not, and so talk about your security journey and what's your impression and share with our audience what you've learned. >> So we've had similar challenges with security, from security I would say there's two pots, one's the contractual security and one is the technical security. The contractual security, if we had spun up our own separate legal agreement with AWS or any other Cloud vendor, it would have taken us ages, but again we went to the digital marketplace, used the G-Cloud 9 framework and it was no brainer. Within a week we had things turned around, and we were actually the first institution to go live with and account with AWS. That is the taken care of. SDS is a third party security assessment template, which we require all our vendors to sign. As soon as we went through that it far exceeds what the SDS requires, and it's just a tick box exercise. And things like data encryption at rest, in transit it actually makes it more secure than what we are running on premise. So in a way technically it's far more secure than what we could ever have achieved that's on premise, and it's all taken care of, straight forward. >> So you've a small fraction of your artifacts today that are digitized. What's the vision, where do you want to take this? >> We're looking at, I'm speaking on behalf of gardens, this is not me, per say, I'm speaking on behalf of my team, basically we are looking at a huge amount of digitization. The collection should be democratized, that's the whole aspect, bringing it out to the people and perhaps making them curators in some form. We may not be the experts for a massive collection from say North America or the Middle East, there are people who are better than us. So we give them the freedom to make sure they can curate it in a secure, scalable manner and that's where the Cloud comes in. And we backend it using authentication that works with us, logs that works with us and roll-back mechanisms that works with us. So that's were we are looking at in the next few years. >> How would you do this without the Cloud? >> Oh. If you're doing it without the Cloud-- >> Could you do it? >> Yes, but we would be wholly and solely dependent on the University network, the University infrastructure and a single point. So when you're looking at the bandwidth it's shared by students using it network out of the university and our collection visitors coming into the university. And the whole thing, the DS infrastructure, everything's inside the university. It's not bad in its present state but we need to look at a global audience, how do you scale it out, how do you balance it? And that's what we're looking at and it would've been almost impossible to meet the goals that we have, and the aspirations, and not to mention the cost. >> Okay so you're going to be at the summit, the Excel Center tomorrow right? What are you looking forward to there for us from a customer standpoint? >> I'm looking at service management, because a lot of our work, we've got a fantastic service desk and a fantastic team. So a lot of that is looking at service management, how to deliver effectively. As you rightly say Amazon is huge on innovation and things keep changing constantly so we need to keep track of how we deliver services, how do we make ourselves more nimble and more agile to deliver the services and add value. If you look at the OS stack, that's my favorite example, so you look at the OS stack you've got seven layers going up from physical then all the way to the application. You can almost read an organization in a similar way, so you got a physical level where you've got cabling and all the way to the people and presentation layer. So right now what we are doing is we are making sure we are focusing on the top level, focusing on the strategies, creating strategies, delivering that, rather than looking out for things that break. Looking out for things that operationally perhaps add value in another place. So that's where we would like to go. >> Anjenesh, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you >> It was a pleasure to have you. All right and thank you for watching, keep right there we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching The Cube, from London at Amazon HQ, I call it HQ, we're here. Right back. (upbeat music)

(electronic music) >> Welcome back to London everybody, this is Dave Vellante with theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. We're here with a special session in London, we've been following the career of Teresa Carlson around, we asked, "hey, can we come to London to your headquarters there and interview some of the leaders and some of the startups and innovators both in public sector and commercial?" Andy Isherwood is here, he's the managing director of AWS EMEA. Andy, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Dave, great to be here, thank you very much for your time. >> So you're about a year in, so that's plenty of time to get acclimated, what are your impressions of AWS and then we'll get into the market? >> Yeah, so it's nearly a year and a half actually, so time definitely goes pretty quickly. So I'd say it's pretty different, I'd say probably a couple of things kind of jump out at me. One is, I think we just have a startup mentality in everything we do. So, y'know, if you think about everything we do kind of works back from the customer and we really feel like a kind of startup at heart. And we always say, y'know, within the organization, we should also make it feel like day one. If we get to day two, y'know, the game's over. So we always try and make day one something that's kind of relevant in what we're doing. I think the second thing is customer obsession. I think we are truly customer obsessed. And you could say that most organizations actually say, y'know, they're customer obsessed. I'd say we're truly customer obsessed in everything we do so if you think about our re:Invent program, if you think about, y'know, London, the summit coming up, what you will notice is that there will be customers everywhere, speaking about their experiences and that's really important. So we start with the customer and we always work back. So super important that we never forget that and if you think about how we develop our services, they start with the customer. We don't go out like a product company would and make great products and sell them. We start with the customer, work back, develop the solutions and then let the customer use them, and we iterate on those developments. So I'd say it's pretty different in those two aspects. I'd say the other thing is, it's just hugely relevant. Every customer I go into, and I've seen hundreds of customers in the last year and a half, were hugely relevant. Y'know, we are at the heart of what people want to do and need to do, which makes it important. >> Yeah, so we've been following the career of Andy Jassy for years and we've learnt about the Working Backwards documents, certainly you guys are raising the bar all the time, is sort of the mantra, and yeah, customer centricity, you said it's different, y'know, we do over a hundred events every year and every company out there talks about, "we're focused on the customer", but what makes AWS different? >> I think it's the fact that we truly listen and work back from the customer. So, y'know, we're not a product company, we don't make products with great R&D people and then take them and sell them. We don't obsess about the competition, y'know, we start with the customer, we go and speak to the customer, I think we listen intently to what they need, and we help them look round corners. We help them think about what they need to do for them to be successful, then we work back and probably 90% of what we do is fundamentally developed from those insights that the customer gives us. That's quite different. That really is a working back methodology. >> We run most of our business on AWS and it's true, so I remember we were in a meeting with Andy Jassy one time and he started asking us how we use the platform and what we like about it and don't like about it, and my business partner, John Furrier, he's kind of our CTO, he starts rattling off a number of things that he wanted to see, and Andy pulls out his pad and he starts writing it down, and he was asking questions back and forth, so I think I've seen that in action. One of the things that we've observed is that the adoption of cloud in EMEA and worldwide is pretty consistent and ubiquitous, there's not like a big gap, y'know, you used to see years later, y'know, Europe would maybe adopt a technology and you're seeing actually in many cases, you certainly see it with mobile, you're seeing greater advancements. GDPR, obviously, is a template for privacy, what are you seeing in Europe in terms of some of the major trends of cloud adoption? >> Yeah, I don't think we're seeing major differences, y'know, people talk a lot about, "well, Europe must be two years behind North America" in terms of adoption. We don't see that, I think it is slightly slower in some countries, but I don't think that's kind of common across the piste. So I'd say that the adoption, and if you think back to some customers that were very early adopters, just from an overall global cloud perspective, companies like Shell, for example, y'know they were really early adopters, and those were European-based companies, you could say they're global companies, absolutely, but a lot of what they did was developed in Europe. So I would say that there are countries that are slower to adopt, sometimes driven by the fact that, y'know, security is an issue, or was an issue, that data sovereignty was a bigger issue for some of these countries. But I think all of those are pretty much passed now, so I think we are very quickly kind of catching up with regards to the North American market. So, yeah. >> You mentioned your sort of startup mentality, you mentioned BP. Is it divisions within a large company like that that are startup-like? Is that what you're seeing in terms of the trends? >> No, I'm seeing three patterns. So I'm seeing a pattern which is, y'know, large organizations that go all-in very quickly, typically, y'know, strong leadership, clear vision, need to move quickly. >> Dave Vellante: We're going cloud? >> Yeah, we're going cloud, and we're going all in and that may be, like an NL would be a great example. So NL's a really good example of a top-down approach, very progressive CIO, very clear-thinking CEO that's driven adoption. So I'd say that's pattern one. For me, pattern two is where large organizations create an entity alongside, so almost a separate business. So probably Openbank is probably a good example, part of Santander. And now that organization has about one and a half million customers, obviously started in Spain, but they built a digital bank, clearly tapping into all of the data and customer sets within Santander, but building an experience which is fundamentally different. >> So a skunkworks that really grew and grew? >> Correct, absolutely, a skunkworks that grew, but grew quickly and now it's becoming y'know, a key part of their business. And then the third area, or the third pattern for me is very much a kind of a bottoms-up-led approach. So this is where the developers basically love the services that we have, they use the services, they typically put them on their credit card or AMEX, and then they'll go and use the services and create real value. That value is then seen and it snowballs. So those are kind of the three patterns. I'd say the only outlier to those three patterns is a startup organization, and as you know we've been hugely successful with startups, from, y'know, Pinterest, to Uber, to Careem, to all of these organizations and those organizations it's really important to influence them early on, to make sure that they are aware, and the developer community and the founders are aware of what we can do and we have a number of programs to really help them do that. And they start to use our services, and as those organizations are successful then our business grows alongside them and they, y'know, typically start to use a lot more of the services. >> One of the defining patterns of three, the bottoms-up and four, the start-ups, is they code infrastructure. And, y'know, sometimes the one, the top-down may not have the skillsets and the disciplines and the structure to do that. What are you seeing in terms of that whole programmable infrastructure, the skillsets, programmers essentially coding the infrastructure? Are you seeing CIOs come in and say, "Okay, we need to re-skill", are they bringing in new staff, kind of like number two, the Openbank example might be, y'know, some rockstars that they wanna sort of assign to the skunkwork. How is the number one category dealing with that in terms of their digital transformation? >> Yeah, so y'know, skills is something that is critically important, having the right skills in the right place at the right time. And if you think about Europe it's a big outsourced market, so a lot of those skills were outsourced typically to a lot of the outsourcing companies, as you'd expect. What you're seeing now is organizations, BP's a good example of this, where they're building the innovation capability back into their organizations to make sure that they can create the offerings and create the user experience and create the business models for the new world. And what we're doing is really trying to make sure that we're enabling those organizations to build the skills. So probably at a number of different levels, kind of, y'know, very basic level, or at a very junior level we're kind of influencing people in schools. So, y'know, we're going to be announcing, or announcing at the summit, Guess IT, which is basically a program to train up year eight students. So you start there, and basically you go all the way through to offering training and certification, we have a very big function associated with that to make sure that we're building the right skills for organizations to be successful, and also then working with partners, so all of those training and certification skills, we are working with the partners like the Cloudreaches of this world, but also the DXCs of this world, the Accentures of this world, the Atoses of this world, really to make sure that they have the right skills and capability, not only around our services but around the movement to cloud which is what these organizations need to do to help them innovate. >> And it sounds like your customers wanna learn how to fish, they see that as IP, in a sense, still work with partners, but help them transfer that knowledge and then, y'know, continue to innovate, raise the bars, as we like to say. >> Yes, yes. >> One of the biggest challenges that we see, we talk to customers all the time, is the data challenge. Particularly companies that have been around for a while, they have a lot of technical debt, the data's locked into these hardened silos, obviously I'm sure you see that as a challenge, maybe can you address that, how you're helping customers deal with that challenge and some of the other things that you see cloud addressing? >> Yeah, so y'know, we're really trying to help customers be successful in doing what they do in the timescale that they're setting themselves, and we're helping them be successful. I think from a data point of view, we have a lot of capability, so just to give you a perspective, so since I've been here that year and a half, we started with 125 services. That number of services has gone to 170-odd services now and the innovation that we have within those services has now reached, I think last year, just over the 1900 level so this is iterations on the product. In addition to that, we are continually building new offerings, so if you think about our database strategy, y'know, it's very much to create databases that customers can use in the right way at the right time to do the right job and that's just not one database, it's a number of different databases tuned for specific needs. So we have 14 databases, for example, which are really geared to make customers use the right database at the right time to achieve the right outcome, and we think that's really important, so that's helping people basically use their data in a different way. Obviously our S3, our core storage offering is critically important and hugely successful. We think that as-is, the bedrock for how people think about their data and then they expand and use data lakes, and then underpinning that is making sure that they've got the right databases to support and use that data effectively. >> At the start of this millennium there was like a few databases, databases was a boring marketplace and now it's exploded, as Inova says, dozens a minute it's actually amazing >> Yep >> how much innovation there is occurring in that space. What's your vision for AWS in EMEA? >> Yeah, so you know the overall Amazon vision is to be the world's most customer-obsessed organization, so y'know, here in EMEA, that holds true, so y'know, we start with the customer, we work back, and we wanna make sure that every single customer's happy with what we're doing. I think the second thing is making sure that we are bringing and enabling customers to be innovative. This is really important to us, and it's really important to the customers that we sell to, y'know, there's many insurgents kind of attacking historic business models, it's really important that we give all of the organizations the ability to use technology, whether they're a small company or a big company. And we call that the democratization of IT, we're making things available that were only available to big companies a while back. Now, we have made those services available to pretty much every single company, whether you're a startup in garage, y'know, to a large global organization. So that's really important that we bring and we continue to democratize IT to make it available for the masses, so that they can go out there and innovate and do what ultimately, customers wanna do, y'know, customers want people to innovate. Customers want a different experience. And it's important that we give organizations the tools and the wherewithal to go and do that. >> Well you've been in the industry long enough, and you've worked at product companies prior to this part of your career, and you know the innovation engine used to be Moore's Law. It used to be how fast can I take advantage of that curve, and that's totally changed now. You see a number of things happening, it's get rid of the heavy lifting, so you can focus on your business, that's what cloud does for you, but it's kind of this combination, the cocktail of data, plus machine intelligence, and then the cloud brings scale, it attracts innovative companies. How do you see, first of all do you buy that sort of new cocktail, and how do you see customers applying that innovation engine? >> Yeah, y'know, to answer the first bit first, we definitely see that cocktail. So y'know, the kind of undifferentiated work that was historically done to kind of build servers and make sure that they ran and all of those things, people don't need to do that now. We do that really really effectively. So they can really focus their time, attention, their money, their efforts, their innovation, on creating new experiences, new products, new offerings, for their customers. And they should also work back from customers themselves and work out what's really required. Every single business model, every single offering, needs to be questioned, by every single organization and I think that's what we do. We give the ability to organizations to really think differently about how they use what we have to do the really important things, the things that differentiate them and the things that ultimately give customers a different experience. And that's why I think we've seen so many very successful companies, y'know, from Airbnb, to Pinterest, to Uber. It's giving people a fundamentally different experience and that's what people want, so y'know, we're here to I think give people the ability to create those different experiences. >> Kind of amazing when you go back and you remember the book Does IT Matter? the Havard Business Review famous... It couldn't have been more wrong, at the same time it couldn't have been more right because it really underscored that IT was broken and that preceded 2006 introduction of EC2 and now technology matters more than ever before, every company's a technology company, y'know, you hear Marc Bennioff talk about software's eating the world, it's so true, and so as companies become technology companies, what's your advice to them? I mean obviously you gotta say, "Let us handle the heavy lifting," but what do they have to do to succeed in their digital transformation in your view? >> Yeah, I think it's about changing the mindset and changing the culture of organizations. So I think you can try and instill new processes and new tools on an organization but fundamentally you've gotta change the culture and I think we have to create and enable cultures to be created that are innovative and that requires, I think, a very different mindset. That requires a mindset which is about, "we don't mind if you fail". Y'know, and we'll applaud failure. We in Amazon have had many failures but it's applauded, and if it's applauded, people try again so they'll dust themselves off and they'll move on. You can see this in Israel which is, y'know, very much a startup nation. You can see people start a business, they might fail. Next day, they start a new one. So I think it's having this culture of innovation that allows people to experiment. Experimentation's good, but it's also prone to failure. But, y'know, out of 10 experiments you're gonna get one that's successful. That one could be the make or break for your organization to move forward, and give customers what they actually need, so, y'know, super important. >> Break things, move fast, right? >> Exactly. >> I love it. All right, what should we expect tomorrow at the London summit? We gotta big crowd coming, it's at the ExCeL Center >> Yeah, I think you'll see us continue to innovate, I think you'll see a lot of people, and I think you'll see a lot of customers talk about their experience and share their experience, y'know, these are learning summits, y'know, they're not kind of show and tell, they're very much about explaining what other customers are doing, how people can use the innovation and you'll see lots of experiences from different customers that people will be able to take away and learn from and go back to their offices and do similar things, but probably in a different way. So, y'know there'll be lots of exciting announcements, as you saw from re:Invent, we continue to innovate at a fair clip, as I said, 1950-odd innovations, y'know, significant releases last year, so not surprisingly you'll see a few of those. >> These summits are like mini re:Invents, aren't they? And as you said, Andy, very customer-focused, customer-centric; a lot of customer content. So, Andy Isherwood, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, it was really great to have you. >> Great >> All right. >> Thank you >> You're welcome Keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is Dave Vellente, you're watching theCUBE.

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services >> Hello and welcome to the Age Ws Summit live from London's Excel Center. I'm Susanna Street, and this is my co host on the Cube Day Volonte on. There are lots of breakout sessions taking place right across this venue. One of them all about Bring Thio life, the eight of us marketplace and really helping people, companies and stand cow to make that journey to the cloud. And my two guests here right now have been at that session trying to communicate that toe many delegates who were there here Mobile, who's from Computer Center. He is the public cloud lead for the UK and Ireland, and Garforth, who's a director off a ws marketplace. Thank you very much for joining us >> to be here >> Now there are riel complexities are their way. Just helping people navigate their way through. Tell me that a bit more about how marketplace has evolved because it's being rapid. Hasn't >> it? Has been rapid. We launched a CZ initial service in two thousand twelve, so we just had our seventh birthday last year. We started with pretty modest aspirations, and it was all about helping developers take advantage of the sea to and be able to take advantage of. A bus. Service is available at the time. So it was a cattle about two hundred fifty mostly open source applications that developers could sort of find, explore, discover and provisions straight from the council where they were doing their work. Overtime. We've added support for a lot of new product type, so we support SAS applications. All right, reinvent Last year, we announce support for Dr in being able to take Dr Images and deploy those into stage maker. We're talking about that earlier. Also support for containers. And so his customers are moving to more of a survivalist type architecture. We have already made set of container images that they could deploy directly into the S E. K s or far gate. I'd say one of more interesting sort of inflection point in our evolution was when people started buying real stuff for real money because I think when we got started serving the developers, I kind of think of that is kind of a Lamborghini kind of crowd. That's a customer, by the way, but, uh, Lamborghini guys just, you know, developers want to go as fast as they possibly can. They don't really care for speed limits, you know, they just want to get the job done as quick as they can. Um, we had an example, for example, our first million dollar transaction. Wait, We're surprised to see it. We woke up on Monday and we saw a million dollar transaction. So I told my finance team not to get too excited. I went to the customer and I said, Was this a mistake or did you intend >> to do >> that? And the developer team said No, that was the best software sale ever because I didn't have to talk to anybody. >> I couldn't make money while you sleep isn't absolutely, but they were >> able to. Basically, they didn't have to go through a lengthy process of procurement and legal reviews and everything else. They literally were able to subscribe to the product and get it deployed within seconds, and the estimated that it took about three months off of their engineering cycle was being able to go that fast. But >> the interesting thing on >> million dollar transactions is, there's a lot of other people that care about that. So I got a letter about eight weeks later from their corporate headquarters in New York. It said that Development team was not >> really authorized to spend that much money on that product, >> and so that is what I call the Volvo crowd. And there are big parts of our customer that are very, very interested in safety and airbags and collision avoidance and all that other fun stuff. And so what Marketplace has been really innovating on in the last couple of years is finding a way to modernize how companies buy and deploy softer in the cloud. Do that at speed. But do it in a way that's compliant with whatever regulations governing the things. >> So do it speed but variable speed, >> variable speed and just, you know, a lot of our customers in the public sector or in health care financial services. They're heavily regulated on on their own, and they have a certain way they need to do things. And so we've been building features like the private marketplace which we just launched actually allows the customer to go in and reason over our catalog We've got forty eight hundred listings in our catalog, fourteen hundred different vendors and they can decide on their own. Which one of those air fruit for use or not, >> because it's very hard to meet the procurement demands of various of public sector organization because they're so >> they are very diverse. But that's also one of the reasons, like I'm excited too heavy in here. We've been working for the last couple of years to figure out how we can more effectively work with partners to sort of serve our joint customers. So he and what's your story? How >> do you fit what? It's a good question. So I think Computer Center entered into the fray with eight of us, sort of circa reinvent twenty seventeen. So just a time where Marketplace was launching two partners, I guess in the mainstream on on, we looked at what the offering in partnership with these guys and what it would mean to our customers, and that was kind of very customer letters and organization if you know anything about us. Customers were asking for different ways to potentially by traditional software packages as they moved into the Ws Cloud, and they were moving at scale and that velocity that we talk about and it was about well, is this a product or a mechanism that can help them streamline? Can they simplify on the way? Can they cut some of that complexity on that journey? We see that very much as a Roald. Help them achieve that. This seems like a really good mechanism, so we fast forward through twenty eighteen. We do some great deals together, those sort of way talk about on way. See that this is becoming more mainstream for customers. Is their landing in a ws in the cloud and thinking about different ways? Different software titles challenging Do We Need to Do Things is normal, or should we do things a different way? What about this dynamic that we were just talking about? That garden was just saying about the procurement folk, the >> Volvo crowd versus the Lamborghini Cross You what do you have developed a workflow approval process that it worked? Yeah, well, unpack it a little bit, the the private marketplace allows, and every customer is a little bit different. Sometimes it's the chief security officer who kind of makes the final decision. Sometimes it's procurement. Sometimes the legal team has specific move constraints on what they what. They want to prove that not I really haven't found two customers that are identical in terms of how they're worked over an l O B manager. Correct CFO. I mean, you're right, lots of different roles. So we effectively, we did some surgery on the underlying service to create a new I am role. And so if Ian is the administrator for his organization, regardless of role, he's given permission to go approve and disapprove products. And some customers are kind of in a white list load, which is basically you can use, uh, only the things that I wait listed. So everything's forbidden until I've explicitly approved it. Other companies, like a lot of smaller companies that may not have that much process. We're more of a blacklist mode. We're sort of like everything in the marketplace is fair game, except the ones I've specifically said not to use on DH. So we just created this really flexible infrastructure that lets customers customize the marketplace to their needs. So you give superpowers to some admin and then the white list black blacklist, depending on what it is. And then it becomes frictionless. It becomes frictionless, and then the user experience the customer can actually have their own logo. They can put their own language around, kind of how they wantto sort of represent that to the developers. And then every developer in their organization then sees that experience and they can see what's been approved in what hasn't. OK, so you get a private label through the channel. Yeah, so that I, as a consumer see whatever brand that your customer yet need to see exactly. And then we've also got a facility because, you know, with over forty eight hundred listings in the marketplace, fourteen hundred different vendors, you know, nobody's got time to go reason over every single item, and we're adding hundreds every year, so that keeps growing. And so we've got a facility. If the developer has a specific technology that they really require, we've got a little simple work flow so developed could say, I need this widget to build this thing, and then we kick it off to the admin who could approve it. And as we were talking about for our video closet, you gonna have precise understanding of the pricing. You know this one hundred percent clarity. And then once you have that on you, Khun, split the pie hole, then you can split up and we did. But like one of the foundational technologies that we launched, twenty seventeen was this notion of a private offer. And so if I want to make a private offer to Ian at a price that he and I have negotiated on legal terms that he and I have agreed to, I can do that through marketplace. And then what with the way that would work in a large organization is once somebody's subscribes Once to that price, everybody in the organization that used that product is using it at the agreed price. OK, right. And then we extended that to enable Channel partners now. So for the ice fees that included center works with now, he's now able to go create private offers for his custom. So what, you're essentially created a two sided >> marketplace that effect? Yeah, I think the interface between the two organizations is really important. It becomes that sort of tripartite with the ice V, putting the customer right in the center. I think that's the signage is that we seem to organizations. >> Do you really see what your input has bean there items that are listed as well. Did you get that >> for, like, selection? >> Yeah, yeah, that that like, you know, >> saying it's pretty customer focused, you know, we work with customers we have. We have a set of people around the world that do what we call category management, and they theirjob is to work with customers and make sure that we're stocking the right inventory on the shelves, so to speak. So we get that input like every day, >> and then that helps you develop you new products, >> New continent, new products. And that's >> ahead of the competition. >> Wei. Try to think more about like, let's focus on our customers. Wei don't spend a lot of time chasing tail lights, but very customer obsessed. What things always >> interested me about the marketplaces. It's so complex in terms of region's >> tax laws, pricing considerations on and on and on so many permutations. You talk a little bit about how you've >> succeeded in just essentially making that all transparent and what what's behind that? >> Um well, I think you know Amazon >> and eight of us like we operate within the legal frameworks and all the countries where we operate in. So we have our own requirements in terms of how we remit and collect tax in countries compliant with local laws. Right. So we had to do that just to operate a to B S right way were able to leverage a lot of the same plumbing we had to build for ourselves and effectively make that available to our lives. So we have, like, there's a small eyes. We actually they've grown to be quite big. But here in the UK is a company called Matile Ian, who uses us exclusively a cz, their cloud channel. Um and we take him the HBS available eighteen regions marketplace on, and then everywhere we need to we will remit and collect tax on his behalf and then give him reports that he could share with his auditor to ensure compliance with local laws. And so we do a lot of that stuff. He's a small firm, you know, and for us to be able to sort of, like, extract and abstract all that complexity from him and just give him a nice monthly report that shows him all the taxes we can on his behalf. That's a big service right >> now. How's it transform your business? >> So I say transforming rather than transformed because it's a continuum thing all the time. I think it's absolutely that a different way of procurement is, firstly, the thing that customers are asking for. So it's just one cog in the wheel for a ws that customs picking up on. I think the point that golf is very well glossing over is that between us, we're doing the heavy lifting on behalf of the customer. I think that's today's point thing. That's that's the whole point here, where that we've all got a part to play in the ecosystem and it's it's all about customer experience. That's most important. I think what we're seeing is repeat customers come back. Actually, that's the biggest from if I look up from the start of twenty eighteen to the end, it was the repeat visits, so you get you know, the one million pound or dollar deal customer coming back twice or three times in the year to do the same thing again, >> but have any being put off by this new >> approach, but I haven't seen that so genuine. It hasn't appeared so far, so there's some education. Of course, that has to happen because it's different. It's not the norm. If you think about enterprise customers, they've been buying up a particular mode for twenty or thirty years or longer, a CZ we joke about. So this is just an education process that let them know what on how on then, what's there on the bandwagon? It kind of becomes that streamline process. >> Yeah, ad I'd build on top again. Sport like you kind of think about the way way >> customers thought about procuring infrastructure before eight of us existed, like back in way. But in the way big back of two thousand five, like buying hardware in storage and networking gear was crazy, hard and very difficult and long and laborious. And your racket and stacking everything else. And then a dubious comes along with services like Three and Easy to know what it makes provisioning access, the hard work. It's seconds, you know, not months of procurement, and in a way, we're kind of software is now catching up, and in a way, what marketplace is trying to do is to revolutionize the way people acquire software for the cloud in the same way that eight of us to infrastructure well, and you're creating a to be a consumer dynamic, not unlike my Amazon retail, where there's trust, simplicity, comfort levels on DH. You know, you even don't tell Jeff. I'Ll pay a little bit more from, you know, Amazon website cause I trust it. Yeah, you know, not too much, right? And you guys have to stay price competitive. Absolutely so. But that to me, is that it's that consumer like experience that you're obviously it is more complex but somewhat creating that way looked, we look to retail for all sorts of cool inspiration. You know, on the retail side, they have a retail marketplace, which is huge and thriving business with millions of merchants. And so we're constantly comparing notes and saying, like one of the things that you're doing for your merchants and are the things that can inspire us on our side kind of follow suit. I will note that you know, I when I get in front of customers I like to do, I'd like to show our user experience we have a pretty website and all that other good stuff. The vast majority of customers actually interfaced with us through command line and automation tools and all that other stuff. So retail analogy gets me so developers, >> thank >> you very much for it's really great to have you here, Director A ws marketplace and here mobile. As you say, >> we're in the midst of this transformation. It's really great to hear your story. So thank you very much for two years here >> on the Cube, on the aid everywhere summits in London That's all from us for now.

>> Announcer: Live from London, England, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit London 2019, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Today, we're here at the AWS Summit live at the ExCel Center in London. I'm Susannah Streeter, and this is my cohost Dave Vellente, here today. Now, we've talked a lot about the benefits of Cloud and the opportunities, and also the challenges sometimes, for startups and other businesses. But, also, there has been massive growth of the use of Cloud services by public sector organizations. And our next two guests here on theCUBE today, really, this is your area of business isn't it? So, we have Johnny Hugill, who's from Public, but also Max Peterson, VP of Worldwide Public Sector, AWS. Thank you very much for coming on to talk to us. >> Thank you. >> Now it's really interesting, during the keynote speeches, I was really taken by one of the speeches from the Chief Digital Information Officer at the Ministry of Justice, Tom Read, and he says, "We don't innovate for professional advantage, we do it to take care of people." And, Johnny, this is what your business is about, isn't it? Trying to link up startups and public sector organizations, to ensure that more people are taken care of. >> Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. I think what we've seen in sort of almost every other sector you can think of, is this big proliferation of startups, of new market entrant's of completely new companies, really kind of coming to dominate those markets. And we haven't quite seen as much of that as I would like to see in the public sector. So, what we're trying to do is help tech startups, help innovative new companies, to come in and ultimately to deliver better services for everyone. >> There is real concern, though, among traditional companies about this. For example, your local pharmacy concerned that a really big player is going to move in and take away what they do. How do you kind of bring them along and say, well actually, if you work with a startup, it could improve the way you do business and keep you in business. >> Totally. I think pharmacy is a really interesting example. Because, in the UK, we've seen a bunch of new digital-first pharmacies come in and completely transform how people can access their pharmacy. So, Echo is one example of a UK startup that, now, you can get door-to-door prescriptions, instead of having to go to your pharmacy, make appointments, you know, waste loads of time queuing. My view is that these organizations really have to kind of get up to speed with how things work in the wider digital economy. So, people have certain expectations for how services should be delivered, for how quickly they should be accessed, to be able to access things. I think government services are no different. That's pharmacies, that's schools, that's teaching, that's everything. >> We're here in London. How big is the UK in terms of the growth of your business? >> Max: Well, the UK has been a leader for a long time, so from the time that they undertook the government digital services business through the G Cloud, 11 iterations, with big ministries, like the UK MOJ that you heard, with big nonprofits, like Comic Relief, and everything in between, educational institutions, startups. We're very proud we've partnered with Public to help continue to encourage that kind of innovation in government technology. >> I think, when we last talked Max, you, John and I, I think we were in DC. >> I think it was. >> And you were helping us understand, look, this public sector is not just about DC. And you've got a number of activities. We interviewed several of theCUBE yesterday At AWS headquarters. One of the things we talked about was GDPR. We were having a conversation with a privacy expert earlier today. He said, you know, the big players really haven't, really weren't ready for GDPR. You made a point in DC last year, you said, day-one you guys were ready, end-to-end encryption, a number of other services. so, I wanted to circle back to you. >> Max: Sure. >> I said, okay, we gotta peel the onion. I gotta ask Max, put him on the spot. You guys really anticipated this, it's not like you were scrambling at the last minute. Is that fair to say, and I wonder, if, Johnny, if you could confirm or deny that. >> Well, I would tell you that at Amazon, we think security is job-zero. If we are not making sure that we are continuously raising the bar to improve customer security, security for small businesses, then we need to do a better job. A couple of examples: GDPR was a good one, where, two months before GDPR came into a lawful requirement, Amazon announced that we were GDPR compliant. So people could confidently build on top of Amazon. In the UK, early on in 2016, we delivered one of our advanced security services called AWS Shield, which gives everybody using the AWS Cloud in the UK and, in fact, around the world, automatic protection against DDoS. No additional cost. You get it by using the Cloud. Those are the types of security services that Amazon delivers, and probably one of the most important these days, when you're working with sensitive workloads, is encryption. On Amazon, it's check-the-box easy to implement encryption for your data on the fly or when it's at rest. >> So, I hear that a lot, about encryption, and how simple it is. You guys using encryption? Do you guys got it as part of your... >> So, we work with technology companies who want to work with government, so many of the companies we back are using encryption. As I'd say, some of the, sort of, particularly in policing and defense, and some of the more sensitive areas of the public sector, this stuff is really, really crucial. And you simply can't, kind of, get into government without being GDPR compliant, and without having all of the SAP security essentials. A lot of the companies we've backed, are using AWS Cloud, have gone on to win public sector business, so, in that sense, I'm sure everything's E-checked. >> Are there any special considerations, with regard to encryption, things like, out-of-scope requirements that I should think about as a customer, or is it really as simple as Max is saying, click a button and check a box and don't even worry about it, it's all taken care of. What's your advice to people on encryption, is it just encrypt everything? >> Yeah. >> Are there performance considerations or...? >> I mean, again, it totally depends on the scale of the contract, of the requirements that your kind of going off of. For big major contracts with Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Defense, there are a number of different performance, kind of requirements, that you need to consider. But, in general, I think, yeah, it's pretty quite straightforward. >> Yes, kind of a no-brainer. >> I think the answer is encrypt everything, everywhere, all the time. And that also means on premise, it also means on your devices, right? I mean it needs to be just the standard approach that people take to data protection these days. And, unfortunately, for many organizations internally, it's hard, and so that's why people are moving to Amazon so that they get that security built in. It actually is the number one reason why people are moving to AWS today. They want the built-in security and then, after that, they want speed and innovation. And there was a really interesting statistic today at the keynote. Did you hear that LSE, London School of Economics, just completed a study and they showed that 95% of all startups that happen today would not happen if they had to depend on legacy infrastructure, because it was hard and expensive, and that's, candidly, why being a startup in today's Cloud-based world, is a much better value proposition. You can focus on the problem rather than all of these important but complicated factors like encryption. >> The other thing there, the London School of Economics study showed is the productivity gains for those companies that use Cloud. Now, there haven't been obvious productivity gains as a result of technology across the board. We're starting to finally see the uptick. Remember back in the PC days, you could see productivity, you could see upticks everywhere except in productivity, and then all of a sudden it shot up. And we've been predicting, for a couple of years now, you're going to start to see it, Cloud being one of the reasons, other new technologies, and so that was another key finding of that study that I found intersting. >> Well, Sainsbury was up on the stage today again, and what they have now found, right, was they have found a 60% to 70% improvement in productivity. That was their number up on the stage. >> Interesting, you're talking about kind of legacy companies. We've got Ministry of Justice, in fact there was a bit of a battle wasn't there? Yeah, well we've been balanced since 1170. (laughter) >> That was hilarious wasn't it? >> Sainsbury's only 150 years old. >> MOJ got up and said, "Well, in this battle of historical significance, our mission started in 1178. (laugher) >> But it's interesting to talk about those, but really, your bread and butter, Johnny Hugill, is the startups, isn't it, trying to spot talent out there and think, who could I partner these guys up with. >> Yeah, totally right. A really important thing to any organization that is trying to innovate today can do is to market horizon scanning, really understand what is out there, what the art of the possible looks like, what the new technologies that are going to change the game look like, what these companies are actually really capable of, where their sweet spot of innovation is. >> Susannah: And they might not know that themselves. >> But it's a really difficult thing to know, especially if you think about what the kind of day-to-day job of government is, which is really running the country, right? It's pretty difficult to ask them, by the way guys, you also need to really understand what the prospects of AI startups are looking like across the country, or across the world. You need to understand who the kind of BotChain innovators are. It's a big challenge, and it's something that we are really trying to help them along the way. As you said, a lot of that is partnering with bigger companies, and kind of forming the right ecosystems of smaller companies, large companies that can help them scale, and kind of taking government on that journey along with them. >> Well, and the pace of change is another challenge. Six months in this business now is an eternity it seems like. I remember crypto was so hot a year ago, I mean I'm a fan of a lot of the underlying technologies. It was interesting to see how Amazon dealt with that. You asked a lot of questions, like what do you really need to do this, you guys came up with a couple of solutions there, but, keeping up with the pace of change is one of the, I would think, one of the key values that you provide. >> It's really a challenge, and I think now, in infant tech, 15% of the financial revenue in the UK has come from startups founded in the last five years, right? So a big legacy market as important as financial services, has just been completely turned on its head, by Revolut, by Monzo, by all these new guys. And in government we are going to see the same thing at some point. >> Dave: I'd observe that in financial services those are good examples, but the industry still hasn't been disrupted yet. Healthcare still hasn't been disrupted. They're both ripe for disruptions and it's happening. >> Max: Yeah, but I think if you look at those, that's part of what Johnny was saying. Some of these early industries, like finance, have maybe been the initial disrupters, but I do believe that there is a wave of opportunity and disruption coming in this whole gov-tech space. One of them recently was at Zuna. Zuna came in and acquired a contract with UK government that completely upended an old way of doing job search. They had a better mousetrap. And, fortunately, in this case, government recognized it and they used them. >> [Johnny} Yeah, I mean, I would say that was a really momentous thing. The most used website in the entire UK Government, which is the kind of find-a-job search site. As Zuna came along, replaced an incumbent supplier who'd been doing it for years, probably quite badly, came along with their new AI-driven platform, using AWS Cloud and are now just delivering a service that everyone prefers. >> Dave: I saw NHS has announced, what, a half-billion pound almost, transformation project, modernization. And when you peel the onion, you see a lot of startups. Behind the startups, you see a lot of Cloud going on because the Cloud attracts startups, startups are where the innovation is, and if you're going to modernize and spend a half-billion pounds, you better look to the innovation engine. >> Yeah, one of the things about the Cloud computing and one of the things about government policy that's critical, is that it actually encourages that kind of innovation. Because a lot of small companies are the source of new ideas, but, procurement sometimes gets in the way. One of the things that we think, in fact, has worked well is the UK G Cloud contract, where on the UK G Cloud, over 90% of the suppliers on the G Cloud contract are in fact small and medium enterprises, and where 45% of the sales since inception on G Cloud have actually gone to SMEs. >> So it's really transformative. >> yeah. >> Well thank you very much for talking to us about this really fascinating space. I really appreciate it Max Peterson and Johnny Hugill. Thank you for joining us on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Great talk. >> That's all from us for now from the Excel Center AWS Summit here in London.

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen, Brought to you by Amazon Web services, >> come to the A. W s summit in London's Excel Center. I'm Susanna Street, and David Aunty is my co host today on the Cube. This means so much to talk about here at the summit today to do with machine learning and a I. And I'm really pleased to say that we have to really key people here to discuss this. We've got time. Tom Summerfield, who is head off commerce, a foot asylum on also Richard Potter, who is the CEO of Peak. Now you guys have really formed a partnership. Haven't you put asylum? Is a leisure wear really? Retailer started in bricks and mortar stores. Really moved online on Peak is a pioneer for artificial intelligence. System's really well to get together. What What sparked? Really your demands. Ready for their services, Tom. >> Yeah, well, so way knew that we needed to be doing something with data on A and we didn't really know exactly what it would be Way were interested in personalization, but then also in a bigger picture, like a wider digital transformation piece for the business where well established bricks, a martyr business, but then a fast growing online business. And we're interested to know how way could harness the momentum of the stores to help the digital side of the business and also vice versa. On we thought data would be the key, and we ended up having a conversation with the guys at Peak, and that's exactly what we've been able to do. Actually, on the back of that deliver, we're delivering a hyper personal experience for our consumers Now. >> I was one of the statue that I notice when looking into what you be doing, a twenty percent increase in email revenue. So that's quite remarkable, Really. So Richard, tell us, you know how you're able to do this? What kind of services that you lean on? T make those kind of result. >> It's a combination of a lot of things, really. You know, you obviously need people who know what they're doing from a returning a business perspective. Married with technical experts, data science algorithms, data. Um, I think specifically how we've done it is a pig's built, a fairly unique A I system that becomes almost like the central brain within our customers. Businesses on off that algorithms help automate certain business processes and deliver tangible uplifts in business performance like the twenty eight percent uplifting sales here, Um, in order to do it. So it's quite a long journey, I suppose. The outlook we took when we started collaborating was was that if we could deliver that hyper personalized shopping experience, we were always going to be ableto show customers the right product at the right time. And if we were doing that that we would lead Toa High brand engagement, higher loyalty higher on higher lifetime values of customers. And that's and that's what's shown to be the case in silent example. >> Yeah, definitely that echo that. You know that the high profits hypothesis wass If you can show the right custom of the right product at the right time, then their purchase frequency average order Volumetrics all start to move positively and ultimately than affecting their long term engagement with our brand, which increases revenue on also delivers a more, you know, a frictionless consumer experience, hopefully for the customer, >> because I suppose your experience is the same. So many companies out there they're sitting on this huge pile of data, yet they don't know how to best optimize that data. When did you first realize, Richard that there was this kind of gap in the market for Pete to grow? >> Yeah, I think data and analytics have come on a bit of a journey away from common sense reporting tio more advanced analytics. But when you get a I and machine learning what you're talking about, his algorithms being our self learning make predictions about things that actually fundamentally changes the way businesses can operate on DH. And in this case, a great example is you know, we're sending hyper personalized marketing communications, Teo, every single for silent customer. They don't realize necessarily that they are tailored to them, but they just become more relevant. But it doesn't require a digital marketing to create every single one of those campaigns or emails and even trigger the sending of those materials. Brain takes care of that. It can automate it. And what the marketer needs to do is it's faded, engaging content and set up digital campaigns. And then and then and then you're left with this capability where eyes saying you might be a market for this product. Let's let's send you something that might appeal to you on DH that just gives that gives a marketing team scale. And then, as we move into other use cases like in the supply chain for film and delivery of product the same thing the team's just get huge scale out of letting algorithms do those things for them. Andi, I suppose the realization for us that there was that gap in the market was just that you can see the out performance of certain cos you can see that Amazon attributes five percent of their sales to their machine learning recommendation systems. I think Netflix says eighty five percent of all content is consumed >> because it's Al Burns. Andi. Companies >> like that can harness machine learning to such a great degree. How does how did howto other businesses do it? Who can't access that talent pool of Silicon Valley or along the global? You know, the global talent leaders in tech and that's that's where we had the insight that his peak way could create a company that gave our custom is that that technology and that capability Teo deliver that same kind results that the Amazon and Netflix >> so before the Internet brand's had all the power you could price however you wanted if you overprice, nobody even even knew. And the Internet was sort of like the revenge of the consumer. Aye, aye, And data now gives the brands the ability to learn more about its customers. But you have to be somewhat careful, don't you? Because their privacy concerns obviously DPR etcetera. So you have to have a value proposition for the customer, as you were saying, which they made are you know that machine is providing these offers, but they get value out of it. So how do you guys think about that in terms of experience for the customer? And how do you draw that balance? >> I think from my angle, that Richard touch on a couple of bits there to do it scale first and foremost across the entire alarm on Thai network of consumers is killer element to it. But to deliver that personal experience, I think consumers nowadays are so they're more expectant of this. Really. We would have considered it innovation a couple of years ago, but now actually it's expected, I think, from the consumer. So it's actually in the name ofthe You have to move forward to stand still. So but way think where we're right at the front of this at the moment. And we're really looking now how we optimize the journey for the consumer so that actually we know if we're from some transactional data that we have in a little bit of over behavioral data that, you know, we're really conscious of the whole GDP, our peace and stuff, and that's really, really relevant and super important. Andi, I'm pleased to say that you know, we have that. We know that by a peek, it's completely on lock down from that perspective as >> well. Where did the data's where the data source of comfort. You mentioned some transaction data. Where is the other day to come from using show social data and behavioral data? Where does that come? >> So those elements of social data, some of it is a little bit black box. You can't always access it, and that's a GDP, our peace there, and rightly so. Actually, in some cases we have a loyalty scheme which allows us to understand our Kashima's better in our bricks and mortar retail, which is really cool that we've got some of that transactional data on a customer level from the stars. We know that some people in our sector maybe don't have that, so that so that allows us to complete sort of single customer view, which then we can aggregate in peaks brain, then transaction data on the website in the app and bits off browsing, you know, just within our own network. You know where customs potentially being and reacted with somethin. A piece of content. Janet within the website, that's that's how we build that view. >> Do you think this is the way that more bricks and more two stores Khun survive? Because so many are closing in high streets up down the UK and in other countries because simply they're not really delivering what the customer wants? >> Yeah, I think so. We rich now. Both feel quite strongly now that wear so onto this now a little bit. It's a really As as our relationship for the two businesses has evolved, it's become clearer and clearer that actually we've armed with this. You know this data, our fingertips, we can actually breathe fresh life into the stores, and it's in the eye of proper true Omnichannel retailing way. Don't mind where the cost consumer spends the money. We just need to be always on in a connected environment so that A Z said before pushing the right product at the right time. And when they're when they're in market, we turn up the mark the message a little bit. But then understanding when they're not in market and maybe to back off him and maybe we warn them what with a little bit of a different type of message then and actually we're trapped with one challenge ourselves to send but less better marketing communications to our consumers. But absolutely that store piece is now, so we tail back. Our store opening strategy is a business to focus more on the digital side of things, but now it's possible that way might open some more stores now, but it will be with a more reform strategy of wet, wet where, why we need to do that? >> Isn't this ironic? The brick and mortar marketplaces getting disrupted by online retailers, obviously Amazons, that big whale in the marketplace, and your answer to that is to use Amazons, cloud services and artificial intelligence to pave the way for your future. Yeah, I mean, that's astounding when you think about >> me. Yeah, this sort of unified commerce approach, Tio, you know, there's a place in the world for shops. It's like it's not Romance isn't completely dead and going shopping. It turns out, you know so on. Actually, yeah, we're using honesty in the eight of us, but we'LL hire our friends at Peak. Yeah, it's it's some irony there. I think it's really cool. >> And that decision that you made obviously wasn't made made lightly. But you saw the advantages of working with the clouds outweighing the potential trade offs of competition. >> Yeah, I mean, that's not that was never really, really no, I'm certainly not know. I think this is something that is happening, that data, and on harnessing it in a safe, responsible, effective way, I believe, is the future of all commerce. So >> that as far as security is concerned because, of course, we have had data breaches your customers, credit card details, access. How do you ensure that it's as secure as possible in the way that you you you choose the services I think >> that come that just comes down to best practice infrastructure on the way we look at it, a peak is there's no bear tools in the world to do that, then the same technologies that Amazon themselves use. It's to do with how you configure those services until ls to make it secure, you know, And if you have an unsecure open database on a public network, of course that's not secure. But you could have the same thing in your own infrastructure, and it wouldn't be secure. So I think the way we look at it is exactly the same thing on actually, being in the Amazon prime for us gives us a greater comfort, particularly in terms of co location of date centers and like making sure that our application fails over into different locations. It gives us infrastructure we couldn't afford otherwise, and then on top of that, we get all these extra pieces of technology that can make us even more secure than we could do. Otherwise we'd have to wait, have to employ an army of infrastructure engineers, and we don't have to do that because we run on Yes. >> Okay, so we were able to eliminate all that heavy lifting. That same goes. You've got this corpus of data. I'm interested in how long it took to get through. A POC trained the models how much data science was involved. How much of a heavy lift was that? Yeah, well, I think for >> us we better be pretty rapid. Actually, we started working together in January last year, so we're only just sort of year into that. >> And in that faith in that entire >> sofa length of of our relationship, we've gone from high for personalizing digital campaigns to recommendation systems on a website to now optimizing customer acquisition on social media and then finally into the supply chain and optimizing demand and so on it. And I think there's >> a lot of reasons >> why we've been able to do it quickly. But that's fundamental to the technologies that the peak is built. There's two. There's two sides to it. Our technologies cut out a lot of the friction so way didn't run a proof of concept. We were able to just pick it up, run with it and deliver value. And that's to do with I think, the product that peak is built. But then you obviously need a a customer who's who's going on a transformation journey and is hungry to make that make that stick in London on. Then when the two come together, >> I think that it's an interesting point that, though, because while suite for asylum, we always I always say it's that we're not. We're not massive, but we're not tiny, but it's the sort place you Khun turn upon a Monday and say, I've had an idea about something and we're not doing it by Friday. That's That's a nice, agile culture. It can create some drama as well. Possibly. I think it's really straightforward to get straight into it. And I think this is where some of the bigger, um, sleepier high street retailers that Amar, fixed in a in a brick from our world, needs to not be too afraid to come out and start embracing it, because I think some of them are trying now. I think it might be a little bit late for some now, but it's just it's just it just wasn't that hard really to get going >> and you've seen the business results, can you share any measurements? or quantification. We've >> got a really a really good one that we're just talking about at the moment. Actually, Way were able to use segmentation tools within within the peak brain Teo to use them on Social than Teo. Create lookalike audiences. So Facebook Custom tools, Right? We'LL help you create audiences that it thinks you're the right buyer. It's complex algorithms itself, but we almost took a leap ahead of their algorithms by fire, our algorithms uploading our own segments to create a more sophisticated lookalike audience. We produced a row US results or return on that spend. People are not familiar with that of eight thousand four hundred percent, which Wei would normally be happy as a business, we've sort of seven, eight hundred percent. If you're running that that we've say on AdWords campaign or something like that, that's quite efficient campaign. So it's at zero. We were a bit like it felt like it's a mistake that, you >> know that is >> not the right, >> Yeah, but not so that's super cool. And that's really that's really opened our eyes to the potential of punishing that the, you know, our sort of piquet I brain to then bring it onto Social on. Do more outward. Advertise on there. >> So moving the goal post meant that your teeth are really high school. Thank you. Thank you very much for telling us all about that time someone feels on which floor. Sir. Thank you for joining me and David Auntie here at the eight of US Summit in London. Merchant to come on the King.

>> Live, from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018! Brought to you buy Nutanix. >> Good morning from London, England. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Joep Piscaer, and you're watching theCUBE's two day coverage of Nutanix .NEXT 2018 here at the ExCel Center. Welcome to our program. Joep and I are gonna spend a couple minutes giving our thoughts on Nutanix, what's happened in ecosystems, what we're hearing from the customers. So Joep, 3,500 people here, I think back two years ago when they held the first show in Europe in Vienna, you and I talked there, it was a much smaller show. Nutanix is growing some strong momentum here. Generally as you say at these kind of shows, you usually have the true believers, but it is nice to see that a company, Nutanix, now nine years old, you know their customers seem pretty passionate. That they love what it does for them, different careers. One of the executives, it was Sunil up on stage yesterday, said, "Hey, you might not get fired for buying "an IBM or VMware, but you get promoted for buying Nutanix." So what's your impressions, tell me what you're hearing from your peers and compatriots at the event. >> So, what I'm seeing around me here is the buzz is definitely much bigger than a couple of years ago. The show's bigger, it seems to attract more customers from all over, small companies, big companies, so seeing that buzz, compared to a couple of years ago kind of proves that Nutanix has a place in the industry and that their products are gaining traction with customers. And looking at the keynotes from yesterday and today, I see a lot of announcements, a see a lot of work not just in the products customers are using now, but also kind of in a forward looking, we wanna go here fashion. And that's exciting to me, because Nutanix is growing beyond just a core infrastructure company. They are building a portfolio, they're building a platform. And I think, from what I've been hearing from customers, it does have traction. Customers like the direction Nutanix is going, but I can't help but wonder how many customers are already using these services or planning to use these in the near future. >> Yeah, and one of things I look at, and I think I've seen good progress here, this isn't just taking the US show and shipping it over to Europe. Nutanix has many years of doing road shows, it's the .NEXT on the road, things like that. In the keynotes, we're seeing European, not in just European customers, but that the demo this morning was senior SE, Nutanix woman from Spain and you see culture when I walk around the show floor, I know a lot of the vendors here and it is their European presence and hear good proof points of what they're doing. I mean, you're from here in Europe. What do you hear and see? >> Yes, I agree, this is not just a carbon copy of the US show, it has its own identity, it attracts its own customers, its own partners. Walking around the show floor, I do see a lot of customers that I recognize. I do see a lot of partners from the Netherlands or from Europe that I recognize, that I work with. So seeing all that attention from the crowd, that helps, and seeing Nutanix as a company, not just US based, but focusing on Europe as well. >> Yeah, wanna get your opinion. How's Nutanix doing on painting their vision? I think back to early days, Dheeraj and the team have a clear direction as to where they want to take things and I think they do a good job of focusing on the customer and laying out a vision without getting too far over their skis. Today, I'd look at it, most customers today, they're really using, I'm using HCI probably for more than just VDI and starting to spread out, but when you start talking about from the core to the essentials, to the enterprise, some of that is mostly customers aren't ready, but they need to be hearing a lot of these things. What's your take, what's some of your takeaways so far? >> So I think you've said it exactly right. So, even though customers are only using core products, mainly, it does help that Nutanix is laying down this vision of next steps for customers because even though you could say infrastructure's a commodity and the cloud is overruling on-prem installations, it's still customers are struggling to go from their current, on-prem, three tier virtualization layer up to an application focus in the cloud. And Nutanix telling that story, Nutanix telling, okay, this should be the next step, after that, you can do this. That helps to guide customers to not only where Nutanix wants the customer to go, obviously, but also from that customer centric perspective, helping customers navigating that difficult swamp of the next step of cloud, of applications, and moving from an infrastructure focus to that application focus. >> Yeah, look, there's a mental map I use for when I look at this. I kind of say that the world of the future is definitely, I prefer the term multi-cloud, but that definitely includes my own data centers or service provider data centers where I manage more of it. Let's call that the private piece of the hybrid and public cloud, and then of course, there's a lot of SAS in there. And when I put a company in there and say, okay, did they lean a little bit too far? Of course, Amazon, very heavily towards the public cloud, but we saw an announcement, AWS Outpost, where they're saying, hey, they're going deeper with VMware and also with their own stack to be able to go the private. Take a company like Dell who leans very heavily towards private, they have VMware and Pivotal to help get them a little bit more to public. VMware going deeper into public. Nutanix definitely leans a little bit towards private, but they're doing enough in the public cloud, they're making partnerships. I actually like the messaging I heard on Cloud Native this morning, saying that look, this is just like cloud is mostly an operational model and sure there's a lot of great innovation in the public cloud, but Cloud Native doesn't mean I built it in the cloud, it milked it. It's microservices and containerization and all those things, even serverless. We can debate whether that can only be in the public cloud. So, the hybrid message, I'd like to see a little bit more clarity from Nutanix as to where that has, and definitely feedback I've gotten from customers, but for the most part, I think they're doing a solid job. >> I agree, so, I think it's a matter of perspective, right? Where are your roots, where do you come from? So for VMware, for Nutanix, it makes the most sense to go from on-prem into cloud, into SAS, whereas Amazon was born in the cloud. They attract developers, they attract application builders, website builders, and so they have the different perspective, right? So they are now realizing, okay, on-prem has a place too. And so the difference is it's just a matter of perspective and what type of customers are you serving? So VMware and Nutanix are serving the enterprise customer that has big legacy roots in the data center, and they're helping those customers move towards the public cloud. But the other way around is just as valid, because there are so many companies that built an e-com solution on the public cloud and are moving back to on-prem for cost reasons, for security reasons, whichever reason is there for a customer. But both perspective make total sense to me. And if you compare Outpost to the work Nutanix is now doing with Carbon, technologically it isn't all that different, but I think it's a matter of perspective which customers are we helping in which way. >> Yeah, you've actually, I'll put a fine point on this. When I looked back to the early days of Nutanix, what their mission was is they took hyperscale, what the really big guys were doing, and they were going to bring that to the enterprise. They've done a great job of packaging that. Early days, we talked about the hyperscale companies really can put in a lot of high value resources to build what they need. The enterprise doesn't have a big team of Ph.D.'s to throw at things, they don't have the amount of resources, so they will spend money to buy what they have. So that's what Nutanix has done, they've got great things to show for it, public company, over seven billion dollars of market cap, so they can grow that. They've met the customs where they are and definitely are a trusted partner to help bring them towards what Nutanix calls the enterprise cloud, what most of us call that multi-cloud or hybrid cloud world. Alright, Joep, thank you so much for helping us dig in with some of the analysis. Be sure to stay with us for a full day, second day, of coverage. As always, turn to theCUBE.net for all the interviews. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (techno music) (relaxing music)

>> Live from London, England, it's the Cube, Covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Hi, and welcome to the Excel Center in London, England, where 3500 customers, partners, and employees of Nutanix have gathered for the annual European show of Nutanix .Next 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost for two days of wall to wall exclusive coverage from the Cube is Joep Piscaer, our first European co-host. Joep, I first met you two years ago at the Nutanix show in Vienna. Last year was in Nice. We're now in London, and now you're not just a guest, but a host. Thanks so much for joinin' us. >> Thank you. So, it was awesome three years ago I was a customer, then I transitioned into a tech champion as well, for getting to know the technology and the people behind Nutanix, and now I'm here as a co-host, looking at Nutanix as a company. >> Well, we really appreciate you joining us. Give us, first of all, some more credibility in the European space, and also we always love to get the practitioner viewpoint. So, you have been a customer, you're part of I believe the NTC Program that Nutanix has, so you understand the technology. We're going to get to talk to some of the customers, some of those executives, and the like, so lookin' forward to havin' ya' sit with me, and dig into it, including, a first on the Cube, you're going to do one interview in your native tongue of Dutch. >> Yes, oh yeah. It's going to be completely in Nederlands, so completely Dutch, and I'm looking forward to that. >> Alright, so Dheeraj Pandey was on stage this morning, and Dheeraj, masterful, gives quite a good keynote, talking about how Nutanix is now nine years old, and so therefore he says still very young when you look at most of the technology companies out there, but they've come a long way. I've watched Nutanix since the very early days, and still kind of blows my mind. Some of the companies I've watched in their ascendancy, I remember VMware back when they were about 100 people. Nutanix, I met when they were about 30 people. Pernixdata that Nutanix bought, Soft Jamb that we're going to have on later today, introduced me to the company when it was three people and a dog, and Nutanix now, over I think 3000, 3500 people, announced last night their Q 1 2019 earnings, and some of the quick speeds would be 313 million dollars of revenue. That is up 14% year over year for the quarter, up 3% quarter over quarter from the previous quarter. Strong growth in a lot of the financials, really moving strongly along their path to be software, which is 51% of billings were from the software, and expect to read somewhere between 70 and 75% in the next four to six quarters, so aggressively meeting that, and publicly traded company, you kind of look at it and say "Wow, this Nutanix has a seven billion dollar market cap before the market opened today. We'll see what the market thinks of their earnings." What's just it that at a high level, you've been watching Nutanix for a while, so what's your take on the company? >> So, you know, I met em' a couple years ago as well. I think they were 100 people big back then. I learned from them from a technology perspective, so I just got to know the technology, got to know why they were building the startup, building this technology, and this was back in the day when it was basically a VDI product, and it was hardware. It was a thin layer of software, and they kept building that out, and building it out. At some point I became a customer of them, when their appliances were becoming so mature, that I actually saw the advantages that they were touting. Ease of management, one click for everything, and that made such a difference in the world back then, that it's just so good to see them growing and growing from the VDI product it was at some point, all to where it is now. This is not a startup anymore, this is a big company, with a portfolio that's becoming very broad, very deep as well. So seeing them grow this quickly, it's been pretty much amazing to see. I haven't seen a company go that fast in a long time. >> Yeah, well it's one of the things that really, if you look at where we are in technology today, things move fast. So the rest of the team for the Cube is at Amazon re:Invent, and the amount of announcements coming out of them is just staggering, but we're going to talk here about Nutanix. Actually the amount of announcements that Nutanix had, considering as you said they started out, really you think of that thin layer, to really simplify IT. Deeraj in the keynote talked about, "We want to achieve invisible together." was the line that he used, and simplifying things are really tough. That's really what characterized the wave of hyperconverged infrastructure in my mind. When I talk to users, why the bought it, it was simplifying it. It was not, when you think back to VMware, VMware was real easy. It was "Oh, I'm going to consolidate. I'm going to get high utilization.", and there was a clear cost savings. Well today, this hyperconverge is, if you look at building it one way, versus buying it this other way, the actual raw dollars was not that immediately compelling. It is the operational simplicity, and therefore I can allow, in many ways they say IT can now say yes to the business, and focus on things that add value to the business. Move up the stack. a line that I've used at a few of these Nutanix shows is "First, I want to modernize my platform, and then I can do things like modernize my application, modernize all my operations around that." It's catalyst to help customers along their journey for digital transformation. Is that what you've seen? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. So looking at my own experience, I've seen it so clearly that simplifying that infrastructure later, five, six years ago, that was the driver for us to move there. It's become so much more than just a simplification. It's become a story of freeing up time from the IT ops personnel to do other stuff. Just like you said, saying yes to the business, because infrastructure used to be hard. It used to be difficult. You'd need to spend a lot of time on it, and now it's really so easy, it's become a commodity. You either get it from the cloud, you get it from Nutanix or VM or whoever, and that frees up time for the IT ops personnel to do value add stuff on top of it, and I kind of see Nutanix going along that same route. They focused on the infrastructure part. They're still an infrastructure company I think, but they're expanding into that whole journey the customer's going through as well. I think we're going to here a lot more about the hybrid strategy, about cloud, about hybrid cloud, about how to manage that, instead of just the infrastructure stuff. >> Yeah, you bring a good point, that customer journey is definitely one that they talked about, and let's talk about the way you look at the Nutanix portfolio now. The way that Nutanix has framed it, is they gave, it was the customer journey of crawl, walk, run. So first, we have Core, which really is the primary product we've been thinking about, it's what the vast majority of Nutanix customers use, it's HCI, it's Prism, it's those pieces to manage that Core piece. Then, we add on top of that is Essentials, which really looked at some of the expansion areas. Files is one that they launched as an announcement about two years ago I believe it was, that they have Blocks now, which is now a highly scalable object model there, and the Prism Pro, so a bunch of pieces to add on and go beyond the Core, and then they have Enterprise, which is is ICloud's kind of the branding that they have along these, but Leap is DR as a service. They've got Frame, which is desktop as a service. They've got Era, and they've got a whole lot of other software solutions out there that make up this whole portfolio. I wouldn't say it was simple. It took me two or three times of hearing it before it started to crystallize, but if you look out from that customer lens, the customer doesn't need to worry about where these buckets have, it's the, you know, "I'm buying Core stuff, I'm probably growing to Essentials, and then there's areas where Enterprise will make sense.", and it's likely going to be a different go to market and different buying motion. Take something like Frame, who we're going to have on the program today. Frame today is not attached to the Nutanix appliance itself, it was born in the cloud, and many of the enterprise solutions are born in the cloud, multi-cloud. So what's your take on how they're splitting up and discussing the portfolio? >> Just like you said, it took me awhile to figure out what that whole portfolio was, you know, the Core, Essentials, Enterprise stuff, but I do think looking at it from a customer perspective, it does make sense. So they started out simplifying the Core infrastructure. Now they're simplifying the Essentials in the data center as well, like files, like micro-segmentation, like monitoring. Those are topics that customers still spend a lot of time on, but they don't necessarily want to. They want to have something that is readily off the shelf, it's easy to use, easy to expand upon, so I do see Essentials as a good expansion of that messaging that they have been giving for quite a number of years already. Simplifying what is already in the data center already, and then the stretch into the cloud, into the hyper-cloud, delivering services that are still so difficult to do yourself, like take VDI for example. That's still difficult. Sending up an entire environment, managing it, you have to have really specialized people to do that for you, to do the do the design, and being able to get that directly from the cloud makes that so much easier. So I do agree with the de-segmentation into three big buckets, and I do think customers are going to respond positively to it. >> Alright, so, you brought up a term hyper-cloud, that I really didn't feel that we heard a lot about in the keynote this morning. It's an area I want to poke and understand a little bit more when I hear from Nutanix. I was talkin' to one customer in prep for this, and he said a year ago, and the last couple of times, but hearin' a lot about Google. Diane Greene on the stage, I believe it was the D.C show, I didn't see Google here. I know there is updates as to where the Google relationships are going. They did mention Kubernetes. The Kubernetes offer that Nutanix has is called Karbon. I actually expect to see not only what we will have Nutanix on the program here to talk about it, but at the Kubernetes show Kubcon in Seattle in two weeks. Nutanix is one of the sponsors that we'll have on the program there. Other than Kubernetes and how that fits into the cloud native discussion, I haven't heard a good cohesive message as to Nutanix's hybrid, they talk about how Nutanix lives in a lot of environments, and many of their products live in multi-cloud, and there's some nuance there. I think VMware has a nice clear message on hybrid. Microsoft of course, and of course VMware is the partnership with Amazon is really the core of what they're doing there. They're doing more cloud native and Kubernetes. They bought Heptio. There are things going on there. Amazon is talking a lot more about hybrid. We'll see if they actually use the term hybrid when they talk about it. Nutanix's messaging, we're going to have Deeraj on today, he says "Azure Stack gets a lot of press, but there's not a lot of people using it. VMware on AWS gets a lot of press, once again, not a lot of companies using it yet". And while I agree, customers actually feel comforted by the message that they understand how do I get from where I am today, to where I need to go? And of course I'm not saying that everybody goes 100% public cloud. The hybrid multi cloud world kind of looks like where we'll be for the next five or 10 years at least, and Edge puts a whole 'nother spin on things. What do you want to hear from Nutanix? What is hybrid, customers might not care about hybrid, but the message about where they're going with cloud is I think what they want clarity on. >> Yeah, I agree. So I think Nutanix doesn't call it hybrid, they're calling it hyperconverged cloud, which makes sense from their historical background. I do think Nutanix has ways to go in developing their own hybrid. Cloud story, making a management layer on top of it, like VMware's done, like Microsoft's doing. So I do think Nutanix is only on the beginning of this journey for themselves, but you're only seeing the small acquisitions they're doing, or the small steps they're taking. Acquiring Frame is one of those unexpected things for me. I would never have thought Nutanix would go that direction, So I do think Nutanix is taking small steps in the right direction. But like you said, they're story isn't complete yet. Its not a story that customers can buy into fully just now, so they do still need a little bit of time for that. >> Yeah, well Joep, really appreciate you helpin' us break down this. We've got two days of full coverage. So much your goin' is that, right, MNA in the space, it's a software world, picking up pieces are easy, heck, one of the under riding rumors I've heard for the last couple of years is "will someone take Nutanix off the table?" Not something I expect them to specifically direct, but at a seven billion dollar market, that would be a large acquisition, but we have seen a few of those in the last couple a' years. so for Joep Piscaer, I'm Stu Miniman, stay with us for two days. Wall to wall coverage. Thecube.net is of course where to see all of the live and on demand content. Thanks so much for watchin' the Cube. (contemplative music)