>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services >> Hello and welcome to the Age Ws Summit live from London's Excel Center. I'm Susanna Street, and this is my co host on the Cube Day Volonte on. There are lots of breakout sessions taking place right across this venue. One of them all about Bring Thio life, the eight of us marketplace and really helping people, companies and stand cow to make that journey to the cloud. And my two guests here right now have been at that session trying to communicate that toe many delegates who were there here Mobile, who's from Computer Center. He is the public cloud lead for the UK and Ireland, and Garforth, who's a director off a ws marketplace. Thank you very much for joining us >> to be here >> Now there are riel complexities are their way. Just helping people navigate their way through. Tell me that a bit more about how marketplace has evolved because it's being rapid. Hasn't >> it? Has been rapid. We launched a CZ initial service in two thousand twelve, so we just had our seventh birthday last year. We started with pretty modest aspirations, and it was all about helping developers take advantage of the sea to and be able to take advantage of. A bus. Service is available at the time. So it was a cattle about two hundred fifty mostly open source applications that developers could sort of find, explore, discover and provisions straight from the council where they were doing their work. Overtime. We've added support for a lot of new product type, so we support SAS applications. All right, reinvent Last year, we announce support for Dr in being able to take Dr Images and deploy those into stage maker. We're talking about that earlier. Also support for containers. And so his customers are moving to more of a survivalist type architecture. We have already made set of container images that they could deploy directly into the S E. K s or far gate. I'd say one of more interesting sort of inflection point in our evolution was when people started buying real stuff for real money because I think when we got started serving the developers, I kind of think of that is kind of a Lamborghini kind of crowd. That's a customer, by the way, but, uh, Lamborghini guys just, you know, developers want to go as fast as they possibly can. They don't really care for speed limits, you know, they just want to get the job done as quick as they can. Um, we had an example, for example, our first million dollar transaction. Wait, We're surprised to see it. We woke up on Monday and we saw a million dollar transaction. So I told my finance team not to get too excited. I went to the customer and I said, Was this a mistake or did you intend >> to do >> that? And the developer team said No, that was the best software sale ever because I didn't have to talk to anybody. >> I couldn't make money while you sleep isn't absolutely, but they were >> able to. Basically, they didn't have to go through a lengthy process of procurement and legal reviews and everything else. They literally were able to subscribe to the product and get it deployed within seconds, and the estimated that it took about three months off of their engineering cycle was being able to go that fast. But >> the interesting thing on >> million dollar transactions is, there's a lot of other people that care about that. So I got a letter about eight weeks later from their corporate headquarters in New York. It said that Development team was not >> really authorized to spend that much money on that product, >> and so that is what I call the Volvo crowd. And there are big parts of our customer that are very, very interested in safety and airbags and collision avoidance and all that other fun stuff. And so what Marketplace has been really innovating on in the last couple of years is finding a way to modernize how companies buy and deploy softer in the cloud. Do that at speed. But do it in a way that's compliant with whatever regulations governing the things. >> So do it speed but variable speed, >> variable speed and just, you know, a lot of our customers in the public sector or in health care financial services. They're heavily regulated on on their own, and they have a certain way they need to do things. And so we've been building features like the private marketplace which we just launched actually allows the customer to go in and reason over our catalog We've got forty eight hundred listings in our catalog, fourteen hundred different vendors and they can decide on their own. Which one of those air fruit for use or not, >> because it's very hard to meet the procurement demands of various of public sector organization because they're so >> they are very diverse. But that's also one of the reasons, like I'm excited too heavy in here. We've been working for the last couple of years to figure out how we can more effectively work with partners to sort of serve our joint customers. So he and what's your story? How >> do you fit what? It's a good question. So I think Computer Center entered into the fray with eight of us, sort of circa reinvent twenty seventeen. So just a time where Marketplace was launching two partners, I guess in the mainstream on on, we looked at what the offering in partnership with these guys and what it would mean to our customers, and that was kind of very customer letters and organization if you know anything about us. Customers were asking for different ways to potentially by traditional software packages as they moved into the Ws Cloud, and they were moving at scale and that velocity that we talk about and it was about well, is this a product or a mechanism that can help them streamline? Can they simplify on the way? Can they cut some of that complexity on that journey? We see that very much as a Roald. Help them achieve that. This seems like a really good mechanism, so we fast forward through twenty eighteen. We do some great deals together, those sort of way talk about on way. See that this is becoming more mainstream for customers. Is their landing in a ws in the cloud and thinking about different ways? Different software titles challenging Do We Need to Do Things is normal, or should we do things a different way? What about this dynamic that we were just talking about? That garden was just saying about the procurement folk, the >> Volvo crowd versus the Lamborghini Cross You what do you have developed a workflow approval process that it worked? Yeah, well, unpack it a little bit, the the private marketplace allows, and every customer is a little bit different. Sometimes it's the chief security officer who kind of makes the final decision. Sometimes it's procurement. Sometimes the legal team has specific move constraints on what they what. They want to prove that not I really haven't found two customers that are identical in terms of how they're worked over an l O B manager. Correct CFO. I mean, you're right, lots of different roles. So we effectively, we did some surgery on the underlying service to create a new I am role. And so if Ian is the administrator for his organization, regardless of role, he's given permission to go approve and disapprove products. And some customers are kind of in a white list load, which is basically you can use, uh, only the things that I wait listed. So everything's forbidden until I've explicitly approved it. Other companies, like a lot of smaller companies that may not have that much process. We're more of a blacklist mode. We're sort of like everything in the marketplace is fair game, except the ones I've specifically said not to use on DH. So we just created this really flexible infrastructure that lets customers customize the marketplace to their needs. So you give superpowers to some admin and then the white list black blacklist, depending on what it is. And then it becomes frictionless. It becomes frictionless, and then the user experience the customer can actually have their own logo. They can put their own language around, kind of how they wantto sort of represent that to the developers. And then every developer in their organization then sees that experience and they can see what's been approved in what hasn't. OK, so you get a private label through the channel. Yeah, so that I, as a consumer see whatever brand that your customer yet need to see exactly. And then we've also got a facility because, you know, with over forty eight hundred listings in the marketplace, fourteen hundred different vendors, you know, nobody's got time to go reason over every single item, and we're adding hundreds every year, so that keeps growing. And so we've got a facility. If the developer has a specific technology that they really require, we've got a little simple work flow so developed could say, I need this widget to build this thing, and then we kick it off to the admin who could approve it. And as we were talking about for our video closet, you gonna have precise understanding of the pricing. You know this one hundred percent clarity. And then once you have that on you, Khun, split the pie hole, then you can split up and we did. But like one of the foundational technologies that we launched, twenty seventeen was this notion of a private offer. And so if I want to make a private offer to Ian at a price that he and I have negotiated on legal terms that he and I have agreed to, I can do that through marketplace. And then what with the way that would work in a large organization is once somebody's subscribes Once to that price, everybody in the organization that used that product is using it at the agreed price. OK, right. And then we extended that to enable Channel partners now. So for the ice fees that included center works with now, he's now able to go create private offers for his custom. So what, you're essentially created a two sided >> marketplace that effect? Yeah, I think the interface between the two organizations is really important. It becomes that sort of tripartite with the ice V, putting the customer right in the center. I think that's the signage is that we seem to organizations. >> Do you really see what your input has bean there items that are listed as well. Did you get that >> for, like, selection? >> Yeah, yeah, that that like, you know, >> saying it's pretty customer focused, you know, we work with customers we have. We have a set of people around the world that do what we call category management, and they theirjob is to work with customers and make sure that we're stocking the right inventory on the shelves, so to speak. So we get that input like every day, >> and then that helps you develop you new products, >> New continent, new products. And that's >> ahead of the competition. >> Wei. Try to think more about like, let's focus on our customers. Wei don't spend a lot of time chasing tail lights, but very customer obsessed. What things always >> interested me about the marketplaces. It's so complex in terms of region's >> tax laws, pricing considerations on and on and on so many permutations. You talk a little bit about how you've >> succeeded in just essentially making that all transparent and what what's behind that? >> Um well, I think you know Amazon >> and eight of us like we operate within the legal frameworks and all the countries where we operate in. So we have our own requirements in terms of how we remit and collect tax in countries compliant with local laws. Right. So we had to do that just to operate a to B S right way were able to leverage a lot of the same plumbing we had to build for ourselves and effectively make that available to our lives. So we have, like, there's a small eyes. We actually they've grown to be quite big. But here in the UK is a company called Matile Ian, who uses us exclusively a cz, their cloud channel. Um and we take him the HBS available eighteen regions marketplace on, and then everywhere we need to we will remit and collect tax on his behalf and then give him reports that he could share with his auditor to ensure compliance with local laws. And so we do a lot of that stuff. He's a small firm, you know, and for us to be able to sort of, like, extract and abstract all that complexity from him and just give him a nice monthly report that shows him all the taxes we can on his behalf. That's a big service right >> now. How's it transform your business? >> So I say transforming rather than transformed because it's a continuum thing all the time. I think it's absolutely that a different way of procurement is, firstly, the thing that customers are asking for. So it's just one cog in the wheel for a ws that customs picking up on. I think the point that golf is very well glossing over is that between us, we're doing the heavy lifting on behalf of the customer. I think that's today's point thing. That's that's the whole point here, where that we've all got a part to play in the ecosystem and it's it's all about customer experience. That's most important. I think what we're seeing is repeat customers come back. Actually, that's the biggest from if I look up from the start of twenty eighteen to the end, it was the repeat visits, so you get you know, the one million pound or dollar deal customer coming back twice or three times in the year to do the same thing again, >> but have any being put off by this new >> approach, but I haven't seen that so genuine. It hasn't appeared so far, so there's some education. Of course, that has to happen because it's different. It's not the norm. If you think about enterprise customers, they've been buying up a particular mode for twenty or thirty years or longer, a CZ we joke about. So this is just an education process that let them know what on how on then, what's there on the bandwagon? It kind of becomes that streamline process. >> Yeah, ad I'd build on top again. Sport like you kind of think about the way way >> customers thought about procuring infrastructure before eight of us existed, like back in way. But in the way big back of two thousand five, like buying hardware in storage and networking gear was crazy, hard and very difficult and long and laborious. And your racket and stacking everything else. And then a dubious comes along with services like Three and Easy to know what it makes provisioning access, the hard work. It's seconds, you know, not months of procurement, and in a way, we're kind of software is now catching up, and in a way, what marketplace is trying to do is to revolutionize the way people acquire software for the cloud in the same way that eight of us to infrastructure well, and you're creating a to be a consumer dynamic, not unlike my Amazon retail, where there's trust, simplicity, comfort levels on DH. You know, you even don't tell Jeff. I'Ll pay a little bit more from, you know, Amazon website cause I trust it. Yeah, you know, not too much, right? And you guys have to stay price competitive. Absolutely so. But that to me, is that it's that consumer like experience that you're obviously it is more complex but somewhat creating that way looked, we look to retail for all sorts of cool inspiration. You know, on the retail side, they have a retail marketplace, which is huge and thriving business with millions of merchants. And so we're constantly comparing notes and saying, like one of the things that you're doing for your merchants and are the things that can inspire us on our side kind of follow suit. I will note that you know, I when I get in front of customers I like to do, I'd like to show our user experience we have a pretty website and all that other good stuff. The vast majority of customers actually interfaced with us through command line and automation tools and all that other stuff. So retail analogy gets me so developers, >> thank >> you very much for it's really great to have you here, Director A ws marketplace and here mobile. As you say, >> we're in the midst of this transformation. It's really great to hear your story. So thank you very much for two years here >> on the Cube, on the aid everywhere summits in London That's all from us for now.

(Latin music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE! Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to by Blockchain Industries. (Latin music) >> Welcome back to our exclusive Puerto Rico coverage, here, this is theCUBE for Blockchain Unbound, the future of blockchain cryptocurrency, the decentralized web, the future of society, the world, of work, et cetera, play, it's all happening right here, I'm reporting it, the global internet's coming together, my next guest is Fred Krueger, a founder and CEO of a new innovative approach called WorkCoin, the future of work, he's tackling. Fred, great to see you! >> Thank you very much, John. >> So we saw each other in Palo Alto at the D10e at the Four Seasons, caught up, we're Facebook friends, we're LinkedIn friends, just a quick shout out to you, I saw you livestreaming Brock Pierce's keynote today, which I thought was phenomenal. >> Yeah, it was a great keynote. >> Great work. >> And it's Pi Day. >> It's Pi Day? >> And I'm a mathematician, so, it's my day! (Fred laughs) >> It's geek day. >> It's geek day. >> All those nerds are celebrating. So, Fred, before we get into WorkCoin, I just want to get your thoughts on the Brock Pierce keynote, I took a video of it, with my shaky camera, but I thought the content was great. You have it up on Facebook on your feed, I just shared it, what was your takeaway of his message? I thought it was unedited, obviously, no New York Times spin here, no-- >> Well first of all, it's very authentic, I've known Brock 10 years, and, I think those of us who have known Brock a long time know that he's changed. He became very rich, and he's giving away, and he really means the best. It's completely from the heart, and, it's 100% real. >> Being in the media business, kind of by accident, and I'm not a media journalist by training, we're all about the data, we open our datas, everyone knows we share the free content. I saw the New York Times article about him, and I just saw it twisted, okay? The social justice warriors out there just aren't getting the kind of social justice that he's actually trying to do. So, you've known him for 10 years, I see as clear as day, when it's unfiltered, you say, here's a guy, who's eccentric, smart, rich now, paying it forward? >> Yep. >> I don't see anything wrong with that. >> Look, I think that the-- >> What is everyone missing? >> There's a little jealously, let's be honest, people resent a little bit, and I think part of it's the cryptocurrency world's fault. When your symbol of success is the Lamborghini, it's sort of like, this is the most garish, success-driven, money-oriented crowd, and it reminds me a little bit of the domain name kind of people. But Brock's ironically not at all that, so, he's got a-- >> If you look at the ad tech world, and the domain name world, 'cause they're all kind of tied together, I won't say underbelly, but fast and loose would be kind of the way I would describe it. >> Initially, yes, ad tech, right? So if you look at ad tech back in say, I don't know, 2003, 2004, it was like gunslingers, right? You wanted to by some impressions, you'd go to a guy, the guy'd be like, "I got some choice impressions, bro." >> I'll say a watch too while I'm at it. >> Yeah, exactly. (John laughs) That was the ad tech world, right? And that world was basically replaced by Google and Facebook, who now control 80% of the inventory, and it's pretty much, you go to a screen, it's all service and that's it. I don't know if that's going to be the case in cryptocurrencies, but right now, initially, you sort of have this, they're a Wild West phenomenon. >> Any time you got alpha geeks, and major infrastructure application developer shift happening, which is happening, you kind of look at these key inflection points, you need to kind of have a strong community self-policing policy, if you look at the original DNS days, 'cause you remember, I was there too, Jon Postel, rest in peace, godspeed, we all know what he did, Vint Cerf with TCP/IP, the core dudes, and gals, back then, they were tight! So any kind of new entrants that came in had to prove their worth. I won't say they were the most welcoming, 'cause they were nervous of people to infect the early formation, mostly they're guys, they're nerds. >> Right, so I think if you look back at domain names, back in the day, a lot of people don't know this, but Jon Postel actually kept the list of domain names in a text file, right? You had basically wanted a domain name, you called Jon up, and you said, "I'd like my name added to the DNS," and he could be like, "Okay, let me add it "to the text file." Again, these things all start in a very sort of anarchic way, and now-- >> But they get commercial. >> It gets commercial, and it gets-- >> SAIC, Network Solutions, in various time, we all know the history, ICANN, controlled by the Department of Commerce up until a certain point in time-- >> Uh, 'til about four years ago, really. >> So, this is moving so fast. You're a student of the industry, you're also doing a startup called WorkCoin, what is the formula for success, what is your strategy, what are you guys doing at WorkCoin, take a minute to explain what you guys are doing, your team, your approach-- >> So let's start with the problem, right? If you look at freelancing, right now, everybody knows that a lot of people freelance, and I don't think people understand how many people freelance. There are 57 million people in America who freelance. It's close to 50%, of us, don't actually have jobs, other than freelancing. And so, this is a slow moving train, but it's basically moving in the direction of more freelancers, and we're going to cross the 50% mark-- >> And that's only going to get bigger, because of virtual work, the global workforce, no boundaries-- >> Right, and so it's global phenomena, right? Freelancing is just going up, and up, and up. Now, you would think in this world, there would be something like Google where you could sit there, and go type patent attorney, and you could get 20 patent attorneys that would be competing for your business, and each one would have their price, and, you could just click, and hire a patent attorney, right? Is that the case? >> No. >> No, okay. >> I need a patent attorney. >> So, what if you have to hire a telegram manager for your telegram channel? Can you find those just by googling telegram manager, no. So basically-- >> The user expectation is different than the infrastructure can deliver it, that's what you're basically saying. >> No, what I'm saying is it should be that way, it is not that way, and the reason it's not that way is that basically, there's no economics to do that with credit cards, so, if you're building a marketplace where it's kind of these people are find each other, you need the economics to make sense. And when you're being charged 3.5% each way, plus you have to worry about chargebacks, buyer fraud, and everything else, you can't built a marketplace that's open and transparent. It's just not possible. And I realized six months ago, that with crypto, you actually could. Not that it's going to be necessarily easy, but, technically, it is possible. There's zero marginal cost, once I'm taking in crypto, I'm paying out crypto, in a sort of open marketplace where I can actually see the person, so I could hire John Furrier, not John F., right? >> But why don't you go to LinkedIn, this is what someone might say. >> Well, if you go to LinkedIn, first of all, the person there might not be in the market, probably is not in the market for a specific service, right? You can go there, then you need to message them. And you just say, "Hey, your profile looks great, "I noticed you're a patent attorney, "you want to file this patent for me?" And then you have to negotiate, it's not a transactional mechanism, right? >> It's a lot of steps. >> It's not transactional, right? So it's not click, buy, fund, engage, it just doesn't work that way. It's just such a big elephant in the room problem, that everybody has these problems, nobody can find these good freelancers. What do you end up doing? You end up going to Facebook, and you go, "Hey, does anybody know any good patent attorneys?" That's what you do. >> That's a bounty. >> Well, it's kind of, yeah. >> It's kind of a social bounty. "Hey hive, hey friends, does anyone know anything?" >> It's social proof, right? Which is another thing that's very important, because, if John, if you were-- >> Hold on, take a minute to explain what social proof is for the folks. >> Social proof is just the simple concept that it's a recommendation coming from somebody that you know, and trust. So, for example, I may not be interested in your video services, John, but I know you, and I am in the business of a graphic designer, and you're like, "Fred, I know this amazing graphic designer, "and she's relatively cheap." Okay, well that's probably good enough for me to at least start looking at her work, and going the next step. On the other hand, if I'm just looking at 100 graphic designers, I do not know. >> It's customized contextual data, around a specific transaction from a trusted source. So you socially, are connected to, or related. >> It, sort of, think about this, it doesn't even have to be a source that you know, it could be just a source that you know of, right? So, to use the Brock example again, Brock's probably not going to be selling his services on my platform, but what if he recommends somebody, people like giving the gift of recommendation. So Brock knows a lot of people, may not be doing as well as him, right? And he's like, "Well, this guy could be a fantastic guy "to hire as social media manager," for example. Helping out a guy that needs a little bit of work. >> And endorsement's a major thing. >> It is giving something, right? You're giving your own brand, by saying, "I stand behind this person." >> Alright, so tell me about where you are with WorkCoin, honestly, people might not know your background, if you check him out on LinkedIn, Fred Krueger, mathematician, Stanford PhD, well-educated, from a centralized organization, like Stanford, has a good reputation, you're a math guy, is there math involved? Obviously, Blockchain's math related, you got crypto, how are you guys building this out, share a little bit of, if you can, show a little leg on the tech-- >> The tech is sort of simple. So basically the way it is, is right now it's built in Google Cloud, but we have an interface where you can fund the thing, and so it's built, first of all, that's the first thing. We built it on web and mobile. And you can basically buy WorkCoins from the platform itself, using Ethereum, and also, we've integrated with Sensei, a different token. So, we can integrate with different tokens, so you're using these tokens to fund the coin, to fund your account, right? And then, once you have the tokens in your account, you can then buy services with them, right? And then the service provider, the minute they finish delivery of the service, to your expectation, they get the coin in their account, and then they can transfer that coin back into Ethereum, or Bitcoin, or whatever, to cash out. >> Okay, so wait, now that product's built, has the coins been issued? Are you guys doing an ICO? Are you raising money? >> So we're in the middle of an ICO-- >> Private? >> Private, only for now. So we've raised just under $4,000,000-- >> Great, congratulations. >> I have no idea if that's good or not-- >> Well, it's better than a zero (laughs). >> It's better than zero, right? It is better than zero, right? >> So there's interest obviously. >> Yeah, so look, we've got a lot of interest in our product, and I think part of the interest is it's very simple. A lot of people can go, "I think this thing makes sense." Now, does that mean we're going to be completely successful in taking over the world, I don't know. >> Well, I mean, you got some tailwinds at your back. One, the infrastructure in e-commerce, and the things that you're going after, are 20-year-old stacks. Number two, the business model, and expectation of the users, is shifting radically, and expectations are different, and there's no actual product that does it (laughs), so. >> So a lot of these ICOs, I think they're going to have technical problems actually building into the specification. 'Cause it's difficult, when you're dealing with the Blockchain, first of all, you're building on some movable platform, right? I met some people just today who are building on Hash-Craft, now, that's great, but Hash-Craft is like one day old, you know? So you're building on something that is one day old, and they've just announced their coin five minutes ago, you know. Again, that's great, but normally as a developer myself, I'm used to building on things that are years old, I mean, even something that's three years old is new. >> This momentum going on, that someone might want to tout Hash-Craft for is, 'cause it's got momentum-- >> It's got total momentum. >> They're betting on an ecosystem. But that brings up the other thing I want to get your thoughts on, because we've observed this at Polycon, we've been watching the industry landscape now, onto our 10th year, there's almost an ecosystem stake in the ground. The good news is, ecosystem's developing. You got entrepreneurs, you got projects, you got funding coming in, but as it's going to be a fight for the ecosystem, because you can't have zillion ecosystems, eventually they have to be-- >> Well, you know-- >> Or can you? >> Here's the problem, that everybody's focused on the plumbing right now, right, the infrastructure? But, what they should be focusing it on is the app. And I've a question for you, and I've asked this question to my advisors and investors, which are DNA Fund, and I say-- >> Let's see if I get it right, it's a test here on the spot, I love this, go. >> Okay, so here's the question, how many, in your wallet right now, on your mobile phone, show me how many Blockchain apps you have right now. >> Uh, zero, on my phone? >> Okay, zero. >> Well I have a burner phone for my other one, so (laughs). >> But on any phone, on any phone that you possess, how many Blockchain apps do you have on your phone? >> Wallet or apps? >> An app that you-- >> Zero. >> An app, other than a wallet, zero, right? Every single person I've asked in this conference has the same number, zero. Now, think about this, if you'd-- >> Actually, I have one. >> Uh, which one? >> It's called Cube Coin. >> Okay, there you go, Cube Coin. But, here's the problem, if you went to a normal-- >> Can I get WorkCoin right now? >> Yeah, well not right now, but I have it on my wallet. So for example, it's in test flight, but my point is I have a fully functional thing I can go buy services, use the coin, everything, in an app. I think this is one of the things-- >> So, hypothetically, if I had an application that was fully functional, with Blockchain, with cryptocurrency, with ERC 2 smart contracts, I would be ahead of the game? >> You would be ahead of the game. I mean, I think-- >> Great news, guys! >> And I think you absolutely are thinking the right thinking, because, everybody's just looking at the plumbing, and, look, I love EOS, but, it's sort of a new operating system, same as Hash-Craft, but you need apps to run on your thing-- >> First of all, I love chatting with you, you're super smart, folks out there, Fred is someone you should check out, you got great advisor potential. You're right on this, I want to test something out with you, I've been thinking about this for a while. If you think about the OSI model, OSI stack, for the younger kids, that was a key movement that generated the key standards in the stack for inner networking, and physical devices. So, it was started from the bottom up. The top of the stack actually never standardized, it became the presentation session layer, they differentiated, then eventually became front end. If you look at what's happening now, the top of the stack is really the ones that's standardizing, or standardizing with business logic, the bottom of the stack has many different versions of say, Blockchain, so the question is is that, it might be the world that will never have a TCP/IP moment, it might be that the business app logic will dictate to some sort of abstraction layer, down to programmable plumbing. You see this with cloud with DevOps. So the question is, do see it that way? I'm thinking out loud here, but when I'm seeing the trend here, it's just that, people who make the business logic decisions first, and nail those, that they're far more successful swapping out and hedging on the plumbing. >> Look, I think you mentioned the word alpha geek, and I think you've just defined yourself as an alpha geek. Let's just go in Denzel Washington's set in the movie Philadelphia, talk to me like I'm a five year old, okay? What is the problem you're solving? >> The app, you said it, it's the app! >> My point is like, everybody is walking around with apps, if the thing doesn't fit on an app, it's not solving any problem, that's the bottom line. I don't care whether you're-- >> You're validating the concept that all that matters is the app, the plumbing will sort itself out. >> I think so. >> Is that a dependency, or is it an interdependency? >> What do you need in a plumbing? Here's how I think you should think. Do I need 4,000 transactions per second? I would say, rarely, most people are not sitting there going, "I need to do 4,000 transactions per second." >> If you need that, you've already crossed the finish line, you probably want a proprietary solution. >> Just to put things in perspective, Bitcoin does 300,000 transactions per day. >> Well, why does Ripple work? Ripple works because they nailed the business model. >> I'll tell you what I think of Ripple-- >> What's your take? >> Why ripple works, I think all, and I'm not the first person to say this, but I think that, the thing that works right now, the core application of all this stuff, is money, right? That's the core thing. Now, if you're talking about documents on the Blockchain, is that going to be useful, perhaps. In a realist's say in the Blockchain, perhaps. Poetry on the Blockchain, maybe. Love on the Blockchain? Why ban it, you know? >> Hey, there's crypto-kiddies on the Blockchain, love is coming next. >> Love is coming next. But, the core killer app, the killer app, is money. It's paying people. That is the killer app of the Blockchain right now, okay? So, every single one of the things that's really successful is about paying people. So what is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is super great, for taking money, and moving it out of China, and into the United States. Or out of Nigeria, and into Switzerland, right? You want to take $100,000 out of Nigeria, and move it to Switzerland? Bitcoin is your answer. Now, you want to move money from bank A to bank B, Ripple is your answer, right? (John laughs) If you want to move money from Medellin, Colombia, that you use in narcos, Moneiro is probably your crypto of choice, you know? (John laughs) Business truly anonymous. And I think it's really about payment, right? And so, I look at WorkCoin as, what is the killer thing you're doing here, you're paying people. You're paying people for work, so, it's designed for that. That's so simple. >> The killer app is money, Miko Matsumura would say, open source money, that's his narrative, love that vision. Okay, if money's the killer app, the rest is all kind of window dressing around trying to race to-- >> I think it's the killer, it's the initial killer app. I think we need to get to the point where we all, not all of us, but where enough of us start transacting, with money, with digital money, and then after digital money, there will be other killer apps, right? It's sort of like, if you look at the internet, and again, I'm repeating somebody else's argument-- >> It's Fred Krueger's hierarchy of needs, money-- >> Money starts, right? >> Money is the baseline. >> The initial thing, what was the first thing of internet? I was on the internet before it was the internet. It was called the ARPANET, at Stanford, right? I don't know if you remember those days-- >> I do remember, yeah, I was in college. >> But the ARPANET, it was email, right? We had the first versions of email. And that was back in 1986. >> Email was the killer app for 15, 20 years. >> It was the killer app, right? And I think-- >> For 15 or 20 years. >> Absolutely, well before websites, you know? So I think, we got to solve money first. And I bless everybody who has got some other model, and maybe they're right, maybe notarization of documents on the internet is a-- >> There's going to be use cases for Blockchain, some obvious low-hanging fruit, but, that's not revolutionary, that's not game-changing, what is game-changing is the promise of a new decentralized infrastructure. >> Here's the great thing that's absolutely killer about what this whole world is, and this is why I'm very bullish, it's, if you look at the internet of transmitting value, from one node to another node, credit cards just do not do a very good job of that, right? So, you can't put a credit card inside a machine, very well, at all, right? It doesn't work! And very simple reason, why? Because you get those Amex fraud alerts. (John laughs) Now the machine, if he's paying another machine, the second machine doesn't know how to interpret the first machine's Amex fraud alerts. So, the machine has to pay in, the machine's something that's immutable. I'm paying you a little bit of token. The classic example is the self-driving car that pays the gas pump, 'cause it's a gas self-driving car, it pays it to fill up, and the gas pump may have to pay its landlord in rent, and all of this is done with tokens, right? With credit cards, that does not work. So it has to be tokens. >> Well, what credit cards did for other transactions a little bit simplifies your things, there's a whole 'nother wave coming, that just makes it easier and reduces the steps. >> It reduces the friction, and that's why I think, actually, the killer app's going to be marketplaces, because, if you look at a marketplace, whether it's a marketplace like ours, for freelancers, or your marketplace for virtual goods, and like wax, or whatever it is, right? I think marketplaces, where there's no friction, where once you've paid, it's in. There's no like, I want my money back. That is a killer app, it's an absolute killer app. I think we're going to see real massive consumer adoption with that, and that's ultimately, I think, that's what we need, because if it's all just business models, and people touting their 4,000 transactions a second, that's not going to fly. >> Well Fred, you have a great social graph, that's socially proved, you got a great credentials, in mathematics, PhD from Stanford, you reinvent nine, how many exits? >> Nine exits. >> Nine exits. You're reinventing freelancing on the Blockchain, you're an alpha geek, but you can also explain things to a five year old, great to have you on-- >> Thank you very much John. >> Talk about the WorkCoin, final word, get the plugin for WorkCoin, can people use it now, when is it going to be available-- >> Look, you can go check out our platform, as Miko said, Miko's an advisor, and Miko said, "Fred, think of it as a museum, "you can come visit the museum, "you're not going to see a zillion, "but you can do searches there, you can find people." The museum is not fully operational, right? You can come and check it out, you can take a look at the trains at the museum, the trains will finally operate once we're finished with our ICO, we can really turn the thing on, and everything will work, and what I'd like you to do, actually, you can follow our ICO, if you're not American, you can invest in our ICO-- >> WorkCoin dot-- >> Net. >> Workcoin.net >> Workcoin.net, and, really, at the end, if you have some skill that you can sell on the internet, you're a knowledge worker, you can do anything. List your skill for sale, right? And then, that's the first thing. If you're a student at home, maybe you can do research reports. I used to be a starving student at Stanford. I was mainly spending my time in the statistics department, if somebody said, "Fred, instead of grading "undergrad papers, we'll pay you money "to do statistical work for a company," I would be like, "That would be amazing!" Of course, nobody said that. >> And anyways, you could also have the ability to collaborate with some quickly, and do a smart contract, you could do some commerce, and get paid. >> And get paid for it! >> Hey, hey! >> How 'about that, so I just see-- >> Move from the TA's grading papers payroll, which is like peanuts-- >> And maybe make a little bit more doing something that's more relevant to my PhD. All I know is there's so many times where I've said, my math skills are getting rusty, and I was like, I'd really wish I could talk to somebody who knew something about this distribution, or, could help me-- >> And instantly, magically have them-- And I can't even find them! Like, I have no idea, I have no idea how I would go and find people at Stanford Institute, I would have no idea. So if I could type Stanford, statistics, and find 20 people there, or USC Statistics, imagine that, right? That could change the world-- >> That lowers the barriers, friction barriers, to-- >> Everybody could be hiring graduate students. >> Well it's not just hiring, collaborating too. >> Collaborating, yeah. >> Everything. >> And any question that you have, you know? >> Doctor doing cancer research, might want to find someone in China, or abroad, or in-- >> It's a worldwide thing, right? We have to get this platform so it's open, and so everybody kind of goes there, and it's like your identity on there, there's no real boundary to how we can get. Once we get started, I'm sure this'll snowball. >> Fred, I really appreciate you taking the time-- >> Thanks a lot for your time. >> And I love your mission, and, we support you, whatever you need, WorkCoin, we got to find people out there to collaborate with, otherwise you're going to get pushed fake news and fake data, best way to find it is through someone's profile on WorkCoin-- >> Thanks. >> Was looking forward to seeing the product, I'm John Furrier, here in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound, Restart Week, a lot of great things happening, Brock Pierce on the keynote this morning really talking about his new venture fund, Restart, which is going to be committed 100% to Puerto Rico, this is where the action will be, we will be following this exclusive story, continuing, we'll be back with more, thanks for watching. (soothing electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here, exclusive coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. We're in Barcelona, Spain for theCUBE Day one wrap of our two days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stu Miniman, and we're going to break down day one, Stu? >> I can go for a couple more hours, who else we got? >> But Stu, we'll go live for a marathon session. No, let's wrap it up. We got a full day tomorrow, got some great guests here. At the keynote, Cisco laying out their vision and the story's kind of coming together, and I think Cisco has clarity. So my takeaway, I learned a lot. I learned that Cisco is not just talking, they're walking. They got a lot of work to do. I think that the signs of great progress with Cisco, Stu: one is Rowan put out a great keynote that looks forward not back. They didn't lean on their base and saying we're going to milk this cow until it's dead, meaning the networking engineers and the position. They're looking forward and putting a vision out there that says here's how the network will transform applications and they had a lot of use cases from IoT to multi-cloud and more. And two, they're cracking the code on IoT because they bought Jasper, which is back haul, essentially using cellular to the classic OT market, which is a classic end-to-end. To me, that was a revelation to me and I think that might be the unique creative thinking that could bring IoT into IT and transform the highly unsecure IoT WiFi IP market because anyone can throw a smart light bulb or whatever device. Full processing, multi-threading capabilities, and that can be hijacked and taken over and spewing malware and ransomware and everything else in between. >> John, if anything what I critique a little bit is he gives the vision of 2050. Go to a show like Amazon, they're like hey builders, here's what we have for you today that's really cool. And I think, we heard a lot from Cisco today, the cool things they have. Big acquisitions like AppD. We've talked a lot about, in the IoT discussion today, you talked about it was a $1.4 billion acquisition they made in that space. Here in the DevNet Zone, they're not talking about the future, they're talking about what they're building today. >> Well Stu-- Stu, you know how I feel about this. I kind of roll my eyes when I get that kind of futuristic with no meat on the bone. If you're going to have sizzle, you better have some steak on the grill. That's the critique for me is I'm looking and squinting through the hype and use cases. Oh, we got the future's going to be upon us to reality. What do they got now? That's the progress that I see and the signals that are showing to me are DevNet, active transformation of classic network engineer operator to programmer, one. Two, Susie Wee pointed out a new concept that we love called Net DevOps, which is programming the network for microservices and these new services with Kubernetes as the linchpin. Heard a little bit about Google, so in line with Google. Of course, Cisco's got billion dollar partners in the ecosystem. The certainly great fertilizer if you will, for this growth. They got a lot of things coming together. I think the challenge for Cisco and the strategic imperative that I see for the management team is show progress now. Now you've got the vision, that's the sizzle. Show the stink, that's what's happening now if they can bring that Amazon like mojo, I would think they'd hit a home run. >> John, we've got the Learning Lab behind you in DevNet area here. It's the first time in two whole days I haven't seen it packed and that's just because 15 minutes ago the World of Solutions reception opened. They've got snacks, they've got beer and wine, the music's going over there, so everybody's kind of moved over there but this area's been hopping. A day before the rest of the show really started, before the key notes. Absolutely, I'd love to have Susie talk about the four year transformation internally. We'd watched some of the people inside Cisco beating the drum, talking about making change. Cisco's made investment in Open Source. They've tried to move the needle some, but this developer wave, absolutely, they need to be a part of it. I think back to John Chambers talking about all the adjacencies, some of the failed acquisitions, flip acquisition, some the set top box type stuff. IoT, is the message they've had. I think you laid it out well. They had a good vision upfront but the market needed to mature some. Now we're ready for this to be real. Partner ecosystem, absolutely. Cisco is still a behemoth in this space and they've got strong partnerships a lot of way. There's a lot of transitions. There's some things they need to be careful about how they make the moves, but absolutely, there's interesting times here. >> Stu, you and I always love to talk about this because the network is where the bottleneck has always been. You mentioned in one of the questions, I forget who the guest was, what's going on with some of defined networking? Well, guess what, microservices changes that game. With Kubernetes now as a integration layer, it kind of splits the line between app developers and under the hood software engineering, all the way down to network engineering. Those are okay personas, but now you have policy programmability at the network level that services could take advantage of Those app developers that are slinging APIs, doing no JS, they're used to IOs. They're used to programming these functions. This kind of feels a little bit like serverless is coming to the table. I haven't heard that word here, but kind of getting that vibe. >> Absolutely, we haven't heard serverless. We have talked about containers some. Obviously, we talked about Kubernetes in area we've won, but the multi-cloud is still a little bit early for where Cisco plays at that M and O piece of it, Cisco has had a number of plays over the years and they make an acquisition. We'll see how it is. My friends in the networking space, the line is the single pain of glass, John, is spelled P-A-I-N. I'm glad I didn't hear that term from Cisco. >> John: I heard it once only. >> In general, they understand some of the challenges. They touch a lot of the pieces and they're not being overly dogmatic. They're not bashing the public Cloud. Yes, they have a lot more revenue in the data centers in the service providers, but they're not coming out here as a Cloud denier. >> That's a great point for a couple things. You know how I feel about multi-cloud. I think multi-cloud's BS right now. I think it's one of those moon shots down the road and I don't think anything's going to happen in multi-cloud for awhile. Your "True Private Cloud" report on Wikibon.com kind of validates that. The thing about the pain of class, Cisco actually has a lot of that on the management side. What needs to happen is that pain of glass management has to move up the stacks, Stu. This is where I think the test will be for them. That's going to be key. The thing that I did not hear that I'm surprised about is I didn't hear anything about data-driven anything. There's a lot of stuff being talked about. Programmable networking, kind of implies data. You even heard the IoT general manager talk about IoT feeds AI. I think AI's fed by data. Certainly, IoT supports data. I didn't hear about how their data is driving either policy, automation, not enough of that. I think that's a weak area, I'll say, they've got to do some work on. >> John, some of that I think is just terminology cause if you look inside the intent-based networking pieces that Cisco talks about, David Goeckeler this morning in the key note. He said it's about learning and security. Learning, it's all about data. How do we train those models? They didn't throw out the AI and MO buzzwords out there, but underneath, that's what's happening. It is about data, just networking people don't talk about data nearly as much as the compute or storage people. You're right, serverless, how will that impact the network? Because underneath infrastructure matters. Teagan's going to have to move around a lot more. I would've expected to hear some mention of it. >> Well, you made a good point, I agree with you. I love this intent-based networking. It really changes the conversation. If you say, what is that, what is intent in context? Huge conversation point, huge area to explore. This truly will make an adaptive network, a flexible network. It'll make it programmable. That's what people want. App developers need to have the services on the network side and they need the automation. Really, really key point. Any other learnings for you, Stu? >> Really John, it's going through that shift in model as we talked about in the intro. Cisco heavily moving towards that software model. Riaz who they brought in, heavy software background. You've got that balance of Cisco has strong history. They are trusted. Network provider, Trust and risk are absolutely the number one things that customers hear about. Security is something they bang on, but they need to undergo those transformations. People like Susie, like Riaz, coming in, helping to drive what's happening there. It's been nice to see very different from when the last time I came to Cisco, very heavy gear, and people plugging and running around, dealing with all those challenges. You think back to customers always-- What do they spend, 70 to 80% on keeping the lights on? Most of the activities we talk about here aren't the, oh, how do we keep the lights on? It's about growing the business and transforming the business, which is the imperative for CIOs today. >> The other thing I liked today is we had storage on, IBM and NetApp with a Cisco partner and ecosystem managing executives. Here's the thing that I learned and I'm happy to see this. You see storage going through the haves and have nots. There is a line going on, maybe its NV, NVFE over-- >> Stu: NVME over Fabrics. >> MVME over Fabric is causing a line that's going to define history, either on the wrong side of history or the right side. We're seeing storage start-ups struggling. We're seeing a lot of companies that we knew that went public, going out of business, start-ups cratering. But there's winners. Hearing the Cisco guys with NetApp and IBM, you're starting to see the storage vents who continue to make it, doing well and they're differentiating. What Cisco has actually done masterfully in my opinion, is they've balanced the ecosystem with the storage guys so that they can let everyone win. It's like a race car. Do you want the Lamborghini or the Ferrari or Porsche? You have different versions of storage. Each one can stand on their own and use Cisco and the better mousetrap wins, the better engine, will win for the use cases of the storage guys. Seeing kind of some swim lanes for storage. That's a good sign, Stu, for Cisco. >> Yeah, absolutely. That's how Cisco really drove that wave of converged infrastructure. I heard from lots of the partners at the (mumbles). CI, even though it's not the sexiest thing anymore cause it's over eight years old now, we've been talking about it, billions of dollars, that's what drove UCS, Cisco has a little bit of fear that they missed out on some of the core verbalization so they're not going to miss the container trend. They're not going to miss microservices. They're all over these pieces. But absolutely, they understand the value of ecosystems and they're very smart about how they target that. >> I agree with you, they got the container magic going on. DevNet certainly is looking good from a developer's standpoint. We will be covering the DevNet Create Event, which is a non-Cisco ecosystem. It's a new territory that Susie Wee has taken down, which is to get real Cloud native developers that aren't necessarily in the ecosystem, so that's going to be a positive. The thing I want to ask you, Stu, to end day one wrap up because this is kind of coming up as the NVME over Fabric. What's the impact of Cisco because we see the impact on the market place, with David Floyer would be chiming away if he was here, but I'd like to get your thoughts because you covered it closely, how is that going to help Cisco? Does it hurt Cisco, does it enable them, is it a game changer? What's the impact of NVME over Fabric? >> Cisco, remember not just a networking company, they're a compute supplier with UCS here. They have the M5, they have their latest that they have. Cisco's all over this, they're involved. It's how do I really bring that HPC kind of environment we've been talking about in the networking space. RDMA options out there. iWARP and Roce and NVME over Fabrics is going to be able to give me even higher speed, really low latency, getting scuzzy out of the way, which has been something that we've been trying to do for over a decade now in the storage world. I don't think-- We talked to Eric Herzog this morning and I really agree with him. This is evolutionary and this is not something that's catching anyone by surprise. It's not like-- >> It's on their radar. >> We're going from wire to wireless, or hey, this is now ethernet instead of token ring. >> So not a massive shift. >> It is similar to disk and Flash. It's absolutely, it's the next generation and there will be companies that implement it better, but we've all seen it coming. All the big guys are involved in it. Cisco, it relates to them and their ecosystem, and you expect them to not be a huge shift. >> One of the things we did not hear about. It's not a main theme here, it's certainly an undercurrent. It's certainly mainstream in the tech industry, both on the enterprise and emerging tech, certainly on AI and software, Stu, is the role of open source software. Not a lot going on here. I looked for sessions, I didn't see any birds of a feather or any meetups around open source. I know it's a DevNet show, Cisco show. DevNet creates a little bit more open source with Cloud found. We've interviewed folks like that and others. But if they're going to be talking to Google, and we're talking about Kubernetes, you cannot ignore the role of open source in the Cisco ecosystem. Your thoughts. Miss, not relevant to the show, kind of the back burner? Maybe Cisco's boiling something up? What's happening with their role and impact with open source? >> John, we heard that there's a presentation tomorrow in STO, they're working with Google on that. I'm not surprised not to see heavy open source in here. It would fit into the Cloud messaging, absolutely Cisco. On that Kubernetes train. We talked about in the containers that ecosystem when Docker announced the networking pieces, Cisco was right up there, wanted to make sure they're there. Cisco's doing it. John, they've had middling success to where they've been able to roll that into their products. We've covered a lot of it because we're big proponents of it but the typical customer here, I don't think that they're like oh hey, I didn't see this. There's other places where those communities, the builders and the contributors in those environments know where Cisco goes. >> Cisco's got billions of dollars they've got to focus on that I agree, but open source is important. You know, Stu, we think Kubernetes could possibly unlock the multi-cloud path. We're constantly watching it. I think it's important to them, they have to be there. They're talking Kubernetes. They're talking about that line in the stack that creates an app developer, very cohesive app developer ecosystem, and then under the hood, engineering, software engineering mindset. They got to play. If you're going to play with Google in multi-cloud, Google's all in open source. They want to be on Amazon, they got to be open source. They got to be there, so we'll see. We'll see how it goes. Okay, day one wrap up here. theCUBE, live in Barcelona for exclusive coverage of Cisco Live 2018. We'll be here all day tomorrow as well. Thanks for watching, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman for Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. Thanks for watching. (techno music)