(upbeat techno music) >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier, the co-founder and co-CEO of SiliconANGLE Media. I'm often asked a lot about our business and what our business model is. In the wake of media these days, media businesses are not doing well. Some of them are doing better than others. And today a whole new model of media is changing. I get the question all the time from people, what is theCUBE, what is SiliconANGLE? What is Wikibon? You guys have all the software. I want to take some time to explain what the SiliconANGLE Media business is about. And I'm often asked many times, how does it all work together? So I want to take some time to review that. And I've prepared some slides to take us through this, but I also wanted to show you how it works. Some of the technology that we've built, and also some of the things that we offer to our clients and advertisers or marketers, although we don't have any advertising per say. We do have an interesting business model. I want to share that with you. So let's take a look at some of the slides. SiliconANGLE Media is a new model for media, digital TV, journalism, and research. We provide a unique formula that all works together, but yet individually. We have three major parts to our business. We have theCUBE, which is our digital TV interview show where we go out to events and extract the signal from the noise. We have SiliconAngle.com. News and event coverage. This is our technology journalism. This is the site that really focuses on you know editorial, high quality news and analysis, kind of what's happening, instructing the signal of what's going on in the industry. It really is a short cut to the truth of what's happening. And then Wikibon is or consulting and research team that focuses on the key areas that we program into. And all three of them work together. Think of SiliconANGLE Media as three legs of the stool. SiliconANGLE.com is the journalism, which engages in with the industry. Getting all the top stories, telling the most important stories in Enterprise technology, working with public relations professionals and people in the industry to source the best interviews and get the best content, objective and truthful and again, pure editorial. This site has no advertising on it, and it's completely supported by the sponsorship and business model from theCUBE and our Wikibon research team. TheCUBE is a interesting dynamic because we've been for nine years going to events and going to the front lines where the communities are. And theCUBE has become a community brand, a community content source. But we co-create content in the front lines during an event with the community to tell the best stories. Not only news and editorial, but really what's going on in the people's lives and what's happening in technology. And finally Wikibon is where all the action happens. That's our big brains in our organization that dig in and do the analysis from (the data) that. And then this really kind of gets rendered itself into a couple different sites. SiliconANGLE.com and theCUBE.net. And our coverage areas are really focused in and around  key areas and digital. Our content revolves around the core content markets and communities we cover. Infrastructure, Cloud, AI, big data software, blockchain and crypto. And the intersection of these markets is security data and IOT, but this is really the digital landscape. There is no circulation in digital. There is not real boundaries to content, but for us we focus and use our technology to understand where these lines are in the industry, and we program to them. And we program in a deep targeted way that creates network effects in each community. So if you look at this, we interview the most important people we can and the smartest people we can. And that creates a beautiful network effect. And we create community by streaming live event coverage for major events. That's what we're most well known for is theCUBE. 110 events last year. Our ninth year covering all the top enterprise, all the top Cloud events, all the top big data events, and soon all the top block chain events. Our formula drives activation, but because the content is so targeted around communities, it really creates a targeted network effect because everyone we interview becomes a Cube alumni, and everyone that consumes the content becomes part of our community. So content and community drives engagement. Let's take a look at what this means for our customers. Our audiences go to siliconANGLE.com, where on this site all these stories are led by Rob Hof, editor in chief. And this content here is the best of the best. Everything is editorially vetted. Nothing is paid for in this site. It's completely editorial. We have multiple sections. We have research. A section dedicated to our research analysis. This is where we do deep dives and provide special reporting around all the top important areas. Cube coverage is the section of SiliconANGLE that puts all theCUBE event coverage in one spot. If you want to see the stories that our writers cover from theCUBE, which is separate from theCUBE event itself, but our live writers look at the activity on SiliconANGLE, CUBE and cover it as best they can. And if an important story is happening at a CUBE event, it'll be on the front page of SiliconANGLE, and the editors will pick the best, most important stories here at SiliconANGLE. TheCUBE.net is our site where we have all theCUBE content, a featured section here. There's a live event going on. The content will be played right here in the screen. If there's multiple events going on, then the right hand side they'll be there. Upcoming events are here. You can view more, and of course if you missed an event, you can always look for more here and browse the site for all the events that have happened. And of course if you want to search, we have an alumni database to search all the most important people in tech. If you want to search all the people from say, you know Google, you can browse here and find people to connect with. And this is the beginning of some of our technology that we've built, that you're only see more of. Connecting people around content, people around community, and people around topics and interests. And of course if you want to meet our hosts, they're all listed on there too. TheCUBE.net site is software written by our software engineering teams that's built for fully Cloud horizontally scalable systems, asynchronous technologies, APIs, and a lot more will be coming. You'll see social network, you'll see video clips and other variety of things. Some of the most important technology that we have at SiliconANGLE that no one knows about with theCUBE is we have a variety of technologies. You look at this site here, we have a full dashboard of things that we've built for ourselves using Amazon web services. We built our own content Cloud for our business. We can do search, analyze, visualization. We can detect humans from bots, text analytics, entity extractions, machine learning, leader boards, CUBE leader boards, LinkedIn profiles, who, what, and where, trend analysis, influence or overlaps, really in-depth analysis where I can say give me all the AWS reinvent community with VM World, as an example. I'll type it in here, VM World. Type my email address. And our influence overlap engine will go out and determine who are the influences that overlap between those two communities. I can do that for many more communities. This helps us figure out what's going on. And of course we built our own custom listening engine that listens to every tweet of every single person in the Twitter fire hose by community. And we have hundreds of hundreds of communities. And to give you a taste of how much this is, you look at the stats, 62 million total people over 700 million signals, and we're pulling in 292 signals per minute into our ingestion, into or community. That's driving a lot of our engagement, and again, going back to here we can see we can do full search, all kinds of cool things, trending hashtags. This gives our writers and our community more insight into what's happening so we can bring the most important content to people and connect people to the content. Some of our digital services include video clip, a service that we built with our team, that allows us to search and clip videos. So let's take an example. Here's an interview I did at Google Cloud, and here's our Video Clipper service. Here's the YouTube video and a full transcript. I can put it into different languages. Looks like we have a Korean interest here. I can turn this into Korean or English or Chinese. Or I can say, highlight the summary for me. Every CUBE video gets a full transcript. It says, takes advantage of it here. I can come down here. Every piece of the transcript is linked to the video. So if I want to highlight something, like this, I can highlight this. And here's an example of a clip. Thank you very much. I can share this on Twitter instantly. Or Facebook or LinkedIn. So we can, we index every single video from, like it's uploaded to YouTube, into a full transcript. And that transcript is available for that. We can run machine learning and AI techniques, do any of the extractions, transcripts, and we're starting to do that so we can drive more community around the video. Let's go look at my Twitter feed and show where that clip came up. So the ability to clip videos is super important. There's the video, Google spanner in production. So this video was clipped from a YouTube video that has a unique URL, cube365.net that now we can measure that metadata and offer that nugget of that video and share that to the world. This is unique in that you can take pieces of the video and share them throughout the social web, allows for videos to be merchandised. So a CUBE interview that could be 15 or 20 minutes can now be cut down into multiple nuggets. This is great value, and you can roll these clips up from different videos into a highlight reel by the click of the button. We've automated the hard part of using video so that we can bring video onto the marketing mix for our clients and bring video in the center of the user experience for content consumption. Okay, so here's a real life example of how the Clipper tool can work, as these clips can be merchandised down into gold nuggets or pieced down by part of a bigger video. Certainly it changes the nature of video, whether it's in the marketing mix for a marketer or brand or for us as content developers serving audiences. If you have a piece of content that's in video form, it's a data asset. That data asset then can be used. Here's an example. On Twitter we were having an argument, as usual on Twitter, about who's number one in Cloud. My friend, Bob Evans, said Microsoft is number one in Cloud. And that's his position, like him, but I'm not, you know that's him. We disagree, I said Amazon. An ongoing Twitter battle ensued. He called me out, I called him out. We're all friends, but it's all good fun. And you can see here, what's happening. Hey John, if you're going to go down that type of path, you know how about taking some koolaid injection from the Silicon Valley world. Right, and so I come back. And he goes back again. So finally what's interesting is that Dave Vellante, co-host of theCUBE and my business partner, realized and remembered that he was with me during theCUBE in Washington DC and had a clip, and he sent it here. Furrier, the pressure to catch up with the Amazon experience. And here is an example of why these clips are so powerful. During this conversation that could have gone anywhere, the content needed information. And Dave Vellante then injected content from a video clip of a long interview, and that was a 15 minute interview. And a short sound byte, here it is. >> You say you're doing Cloud, but as they teach you in business school, there's dis-economies of scale trying to match a trajectory of an experienced Cloud vendor. You just mentioned that. Let's explore that. If I want to match Amazon's years of experience, I can say I'm up there with all these services, but you can't just match that over night. It's just dis-economy of scale. Reverse proxies, technical debt, all kinds of stuff. So Microsoft, although looking good on paper, is under serious pressure, and those dis-economy scales creates more risk. That more risk is more down time. We just saw 11 hours of down time on Microsoft Azure than Europe, 11 hours. 11 hours, it's massive, it's not like oh, something just happened. >> Hey, there it is, a clip that was short, part of a longer video. You can always watch it here, that we cut up and created. It instantly changed the nature of the conversation. That's a great example of other things. Let me show you some other tools here, with Video Clipper. That's one example. Certainly we have the notion of creating clip lists. So here's a highlight reel that I put together of Pat Gelsinger's best highlights. I took three, five, four clips and I made it into one beautiful asset. That's Andy Jassy's keynote from VM World. >> Today I'm excited to announce the availability of our, let's talk about that one. We've received hundreds of priorities. >> This is an example. I took a keynote and broke it down into a highlight reel there. There's other clip lists, other CUBE videos, got great stuff, here's the highlights from VM World 2017 that was put together. Look at all those clips. These are different clips. You check a box and you said clip list, creates a highlight reel. You can do this for things like sales enablement. A sales rep could put some clips together and send it to a prospect via email and say here's a minute and a half of our smartest person talking about x. See ya in later for a meeting. It could be used for content to support an article. It could be used to support an argument. It could be used to support a positive thing. This is content for good. This is what we do, and of course, this is all available to our team and also our customers. The best part of all, if I want to find out what's going on with block chain, I can just type into the search engine. We solved the video search problem. I can click on a link and find all I want to do about block chain. Like I say, well, just give me all the clips that have block chain in it. Or give me when there's a block chain mentioned in all the transcripts. So anytime the word block chain is mentioned in any of our videos, we can surface that quickly. 220 clips, I can type in backup. If you're interested in backup and recovery, you can do that. Multi Cloud. Making videos more productive, integral part of the marketing mix is what the purpose of this is. And this is all part of comprehensive back end technology that we're using for our system. So SiliconANGLE Media is not just three properties. It's a coverage area that has technology behind it that you can look at and say, we cover Cloud, we go to the top events in Cloud, we go to the top events in Infrastructure, the top events in AI and big data, and the top events in each of these markets. And we share as much content as possible with theCUBE, SiliconANGLE, and Wikibon. The fastest, most relevant content and engage the community, and we collaborate with them. It's a co-creation business model that has monetization and money making around sponsorships and co-creation. And we make money by monetizing our digital services via our content Cloud, Video Clipper, and data services that help marketers with the co-creation and help them find community, grow community, and create a content market with community. Content plus community equals engagement. Those are the things that are mattering right now. And all of this is happening off someone's website, in the wild, organic discovery. This is the new marketing model that we're taking advantage of, creating a network effect with great content. That's how it works. And of course, we're excited to continue to push the envelope and grow. If you have any questions, I'm happy to talk at any time. You can reach out to me, Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman, Greg Ontario, and any of our team. Kent Libbey, Jeff Rick, and our entire sales organization. Of course, Rob Hof, editor in chief. Peter Burris at Wikibon, and Jeff Rick at theCUBE. Thanks for watching. If you have any more questions, happy to do this next time. We'll give you an update on what's going on with or crypto currency community that we're doing. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe. It's theCUBE covering Data Citizens '21 brought to you by Collibra. >> Everybody, John Walls here on theCUBE, continuing our coverage of Data Citizens '21 with Michael Kuzma, who is a Senior Data Engineer at Lockheed Martin but he has just not any Senior Data Engineer. He is the Collibra Ranger of the Year, an outstanding award that certainly honors Michael's dedication to training and evaluation, and development. He is the top dog. And so it is our real pleasure to welcome Michael in this morning. Michael, first off congratulations on the recognition. I know it is well deserved, but, I'm certainly it's been a long time in the making for you. So congratulations on that. >> Thanks, John, thanks so much. >> Yeah, let's talk about the award a little bit here because you're the top Collibra Ranger. The fact that you've undergone this intensive training and evaluation process, what has that or what is that doing for you in terms of your professional development and what you're able to provide Lockheed Martin? >> Well, I think the ranger program definitely has helped with my understanding of the tool. First of all, we're standing up Collibra as sort of the key pillar of data governance within Lockheed Martin. So it's important to have people who are subject-matter experts on the tool that can help the different business areas to be able to stand up and just extract as much value as they can from it. >> Yeah, why did this matter to you? I mean, a lot of work, I mean, a lot of work that went into this and to reach the pinnacle required I know sacrifice and commitment on your part and on your team's part for that matter. But why was this of paramount importance to you? >> Well, I think it was partially because I was early on in my Collibra journey when I took the ranger certification and went through it. So it definitely helped to solidify my understanding of the tool and get more into it. That way I can just provide that value to the customers. We also wanted to see what would it look like for other people at Lockheed Martin to become rangers and get proficient in the tool. So I was kind of the Guinea pig for Lockheed and we were evaluating just how it would help us with standing it up. >> Yeah, I mean, talk about the process, if you will a little bit and share with us just what you went through in terms of how many hours this required, what kind of work you had to do, what kind of training and the evaluation process. So kind of take us through there from A to Z if you will, on your journey. >> Yeah, well, it started off, we had to get a virtual environment stood up just so that we could do some of the exercises that the ranger certification requires. So that was an intensive process of just making sure we had all the infrastructure in place to run the sandbox environment. And then once we got that up, it was mainly doing the exercises of, you're provided with the data landscape. How are you going to represent it in the tool? That way your users both business and technical users could go in and see the data that's in there and be able to get value, be able to get insights from it. And I think it was challenging for sure, to just figure out what all is required for standing up the Collibra environment 'cause that was a piece of the ranger not only how to work the tool, but how to stand it up, how to administrate it and in an effective way and get the metamodel set up in an effective way that way you have that longterm sustainability. So it was good seeing all of those different pieces come together. And then after you put it all together, I had the interviews with the Collibra team where you go over everything you did. So it definitely helps when you have to explain it to somebody they're asking questions. It sort of provides you with that dry run for when people in your business area and your company are going to be trying to use the tool and they might not understand about it or what value it can provide. So having that interview almost like a dry run that you can then help customers when they have questions and come to you. >> Yeah, how helpful was that? I mean, you raised a point, interesting point and really thought about that. You're basically going before the board, if you will, and answering a lot of how's and why's about your process, your thinking process, and what you put into place and how you implemented the tools, what have you. What did you find interesting about that? Or what did you find out about yourself perhaps in your knowledge base through that process? >> I definitely think it stretched my knowledge base for it. It was definitely nerve wracking having to go in and explain your rationale to people but it turned out well. And I feel like if you can explain something, like if you do your prep work and you're able to explain it to somebody else, it sort of proves that you have the true understanding on your side of it. So it was definitely a lot of prep work to just anticipate all the different questions, figure it out on my side first and then be able to answer it effectively. >> Yeah, we all like softballs, but what about curve balls? Were there any curve balls that perhaps that came up in that evaluation process? They're like, "Oh, no, I hadn't thought of that. Or I didn't anticipate that." You know sometimes it's those curve balls that really keep us on our toes. >> Yeah, I can't remember any specific questions. I do remember getting thrown some of those curve balls where you give the answer you think it's sufficient and then there's the build on follow on questions to that where you're like, "Okay, well, I didn't of that." And so you're trying to think through it on the spot. So I definitely got some of those I don't remember the exact questions but it definitely helps to be prepared. >> Yeah, it keeps you on your toes for sure. You mentioned that the value of this, perhaps within Lockheed Martin and being par, I think a great example for others within your organization. What about just kind of in the data community at large or your colleagues at other enterprises. What would you say to them in terms of the value in pursuing this kind of honor, this kind of recognition and how it could be put into good use in their work on the day-to-day side of operations? >> Well, I think for people who are early on and trying to stand it up, the video curriculum definitely helped me out for sure. Learning about both the administrative side, as well as how to use the tool as an end user. If you can put your mind yourself in the mindset of an end user, that's where you can really figure out where the most value is going to be coming from. And it was also good just getting that hands-on experience in a sandbox environment, that you could build it out and not have to worry about it breaking anything for your organization, but also figuring out how are you going to set up the metamodel and get it working before people populate the tool? 'Cause it's a lot harder to make updates when people are using it. It's good to try to get that as well established upfront as possible. So it's definitely good to get that hands-on experience with standing that up. And I think it helps you sort of think through all the different intricacies and nuances for standing up your own environment and getting the most value for your company. >> You know, let's talk about Lockheed Martin a little bit and obviously I'm going to take, everybody's pretty well familiar obviously with your work. I mean 110,000 employees worldwide footprint and obviously security and data security is a critical importance. What does Collibra do for you in that respect in terms of whatever peace of mind you might get in terms of data privacy and data security and reliability all these things that really factor, I would assume in the Lockheed Martin's operations. >> Yeah, it does and we're still thinking through all of the things especially with classified information, but it being metadata helps a lot. People are a lot less apprehensive knowing that it's just metadata in the tool. You're not actually keeping the data itself in the tool. So that way we can still have our security pieces on the underlying data. It's more for that discovery piece for us and we're able to see what shared reports are out there to be able to get lineage for different systems and help people's just business understanding of the things that are out there and the technical users as well, getting value from the lineage and system setups. So I think being able to lock down the view permissions that helps too, you know, puts people's minds at ease if you're able to say, "Okay, well, we can make sure only certain people are able to see this." You know, we have some of those built-in as well. >> Yeah, I mean, that's something I know you've done a lot at Lockheed in terms of working on the tech side and the non-tech side. And trying to explain policies, governance, and determining accessibility and putting the right governance controls in place. From a data perspective, again, sharing your insights what you have learned in that regard at Lockheed Martin what would you say to your fellow data colleagues if you will, again, at other enterprises in terms of getting that kind of collaboration and feedback and input from just not the, just the tech side but also the non-tech side of your house? >> Yeah, it's definitely important to get that business side as well because the technical users that while they work with it so much they might not understand that business users are not going to know what all of these things mean and that they're going to need some sort of human readable version of it. So we have people from the different business areas both business representatives and technical representatives who we work with on a consistent basis to get that continual feedback. And that way we're getting what are the priorities from both sides and seeing sort of where the synergies are across the different business areas as well. That way we're not duplicating effort, but we're trying to make it a comprehensive tool that everybody can use. >> Now I know that your relationship at Lockheed Martin with Clipper goes back some four years now. So you have a maturing relationship for sure. And the value there seems to be pretty well-documented. What would you say to others in your space, again not only about, just about Collibra, but about the data, evolution of data in general in terms of giving advice to somebody who's looking at this as a career, or maybe somebody who is just now getting into a more sophisticated look at their data footprint? >> Yeah it's definitely a large field. There's always new things to learn. It's always evolving too. So I think that that first step for an individual is to be willing to to learn those new things, to learn those new systems, processes, ways of thinking and take on tasks that sort of stretch you in your career. Things that you might not have said yes to before but saying yes could give you more of a comprehensive view of the business or give you a better data view as well. And from the company, it's just trying to figure out where the most value lies. Trying to get everybody sort of on the same page when it's the wild west it becomes a lot harder to extract value and move towards value. So trying to get everybody standardized but also give them the flexibility for their individual program or business needs but try to keep people to where there's a common understanding of the data. >> Now, spoken by someone who's been there and is doing that, Michael, we appreciate the insights. And once again, congratulations on the honor. It is a well-deserved. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> You bet Michael Kuzma joining us from Lockheed Martin as the Collibra Ranger of the Year. We continue our discussion here, Data Citizens '21 on theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle. Welcome to the cubes event. Virtual event. Cuban Cloud. I'm John for your host. We're here talking to all the thought leaders getting all the stories around Cloud What's going on this year and next today, Tomorrow and the future. We gotta featured startup here. Jonah Clipper, who is the CEO and founder of Stack Hawks. Developing security software for developers to have them put security baked in from the beginning. Johnny, thanks for coming on and being featured. Start up here is part of our Cuban cloud. Thanks for joining. >>Thanks so much for having me, John. >>So one of our themes this year is obviously Cloud natives gone mainstream. The pandemic has shown that. You know, a lot of things have to be modern. Modern applications, the emerald all they talked about modern applications. Infrastructure is code. Reinvent, um is here. They're talking about the next gen enterprise. Their public cloud. Now you've got hybrid cloud. Now you've got multi cloud. But for developers, you just wanna be building security baked in and they don't care where the infrastructure is. So this is the big trend. Like to get your thoughts on that. But before we jump in, tell us about Stack Hawk What you guys do your founded in 2019. Tell us about your company and what Your mission is >>Awesome. Yeah, our mission is to put application security in the hands of software developers so that they can find and fix upset books before they deployed a production. And we do that through a dynamic application scanning capability. Uh, that's deployable via docker, so engineers can run it locally. They can run it in C I C. D. On every single PR or merge and find bugs in the process of delivering software rather than after it's been production. >>So everyone's talking about shift left, shift left for >>security. What does >>that mean? Uh, these days. And what if some of the hurdles that people are struggling with because all I hear is shift left shift left from, like I mean, what does What does that actually mean? Now, Can you take us through your >>view? Yes, and we use the phrase a lot, and I and I know it can feel a little confusing or overused. Probably. Um, When I think of shift left, I think of that Mobius that we all look at all of the time, Um, and how we deliver and, like, plan, write code, deliver software and then manage it. Monitor it right like that entire Dev ops workflow. And today, when we think about where security lives, it either is a blocker to deploying production. Or most commonly, it lives long after code has been deployed to production. And there's a security team constantly playing catch up, trying to ensure that the development team whose job is to deliver value to their customers quickly, right, deploy as fast as we can, as many great customer facing features, um there, then, looking at it months after software has been deployed and then hurrying and trying to assess where the bugs are. And, um, trying to get that information back to software developers so that they can fix those issues. Shifting left to me means software engineers are finding those bugs as their writing code or in the CIA CD pipeline long before code has been deployed to production. >>And so you guys attack that problem right there so they don't have to ship the code and then come back and fix it again. Or where we forgot what the hell is going on. That point in time some Q 18 gets it. Is that the kind of problem that that's out there? Is that the main pain point? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean a lot of the way software, specifically software like ours and dynamic applications scanning works is a security team or a pen tester. Maybe, is assessing applications for security vulnerability these, um, veteran prod that's normally where these tools are run and they throw them back over the wall, you know, interrupting sprints and interrupting the developer workflow. So there's a ton of context switching, which is super expensive, and it's very disruptive to the business to not know about those issues before they're in prod. And they're also higher risk issues because they're in fraud s. So you have to be able to see a >>wrong flywheel. Basically, it's like you have a penetration test is okay. I want to do ship this app. Pen test comes back, okay? We gotta fix the bug, interrupts the cycle. They're not coding there in fire drill mode. And then it's a chaotic death spiral at that point, >>right? Or nothing gets done. God, how did >>you What was the vision? How did you get here? What? How did you start? The company's woke up one morning. Seven started a security company. And how did what was the journey? What got you here? >>Sure. Thanks. I've been building software for software engineers since 2010. So the first startup I worked for was very much about making it easy for software engineers to deploy and manage applications super efficiently on any cloud provider. And we did programmatic updates to those applications and could even move them from cloud to cloud. And so that was sort of cutting my teeth and technology and really understanding the developer experience. Then I was a VP of product at a company called Victor Ops. We were purchased by spunk in 2018. But that product was really about empowering software engineers to manage their own code in production. So instead of having a network operations center right who sat in front of screens and was waiting for something to go wrong and would then just end up dialing there, you know, just this middle man trying to dial to find the person who wrote the software so that they can fix it. We made that way more efficient and could just route issues to software engineers. And so that was a very dev ops focused company in terms of, um, improving meantime to know and meantime to resolve by putting up time in the hands of software engineers where it didn't used to live there before it lived in a more traditional operations type of role. But we deploy software way too quickly and way too frequently to production to assume that another human can just sit there and know how to fix it, because the problems aren't repeatable, right? So So I've been living in the space for a long time, and I would go to conferences and people would say, Well, I love for, you know, we have these digital transformation initiatives and I'm in the security team and I don't feel like I'm part of this. I don't know. I don't know how to insert myself in this process. And so I started doing a lot of research about, um, how we can shift this left. And I was actually doing some research about penetration testing at the time, Um, and found just a ton of opportunity, a ton of problems, right that exist with security and how we do it today. So I really think of this company as a Dev Ops first Company, and it just so happens to be that we're taking security, and we're making it, um, just part of the the application testing framework, right? We're testing for security bugs, just like we would test for any other kind of bucks. >>That's an awesome vision of other great great history there. And thanks for sharing that. I think one of the things that I think this ties into that we have been reporting aggressively on is the movement to Dev Stack Up, Dev, Ops Dev SEC Ops. And you know, just doing an interview with the guy who stood up space force and big space conversation and were essentially riffing on the idea that they have to get modern. It's government, but they got to do more commercial. They're using open source. But the key thing was everything. Software defined. And so, as you move into suffer defined, then they say we want security baked in from the beginning and This is the big kind of like sea level conversation. Bake it in from the beginning, but it's not that easy. And this is where I think it's interesting where you start to think, uh, Dev ops for security because security is broken. So this is a huge trend. It sounds easy to say it baked security in whether it's an i o T edge or multi cloud. There's >>a lot >>of work there. What should people understand when they hear that kind of platitude of? I just baked security and it's really easy. It's not. It's not trivial. What's your thoughts on >>that? It isn't trivial. And in my opinion, there aren't a lot of tools on the market that actually make that very easy. You know, there are some you've had sneak on this program and they're doing an excellent job, really speaking to the developer and being part of that modern software delivery workflow. Um, but because a lot of tools were built to run in production, it makes it really difficult to bake them in from the beginning. And so, you know, I think there are several goals here. One is you make the tooling work so that it works for the software engineer and their workflow. And and there's some different values that we have to consider when its foreign engineer versus when it's for a security person, right? Limit the noise, make it as easy as possible. Um, make sure that we only show the most critical things that are worth an engineer. Stopping what they're doing in terms of building business value and going back and fixing that bugs and then create a way to discuss in triage other issues later outside of the development. Workflow. So you really have to have a lot of empathy and understanding for how software is built and how software engineers behave, I think, in order to get this right. So it's not easy. Um, but we're here and other tools air here. Thio support companies in doing that. >>What's the competitive strategy for you guys going forward? Because there's a big sea change. Now I see an inflection point. Obviously, Cove it highlights. It's not the main reason, but Cloud native has proven it's now gone mainstream kubernetes. You're seeing the big movement there. You're seeing scale be a huge issue. Software defined operations are now being discussed. So I think it's It's a simple moment for this kind of solution. How are you guys going to compete? What's what's the winning strategy? How are you guys gonna compete to win? >>Yeah, so there's two pieces to that one is getting the technology right and making sure that it is a product that developers love. And we put a ton of effort into that because when a software engineer says, Hey, I'd love to use the security product, right? CSOs around the world are going to be like, Yes, please. Did a software engineer just ask me, You have the security product. Thank you, Right. We're here to make it so easy for them and get the tech right. And then the other piece, in terms of being competitive, is the business model. There were something like, I don't You would know better than me, but I think the data point I last saw was like 1300 venture backed security companies since 2012 focused on selling to see SOS and Fortune 2000 companies. It is a mess. It's so noisy, nobody can figure out what anybody actually does. What we have done is said no, we're going to take a modern business model approach to security. So you know, it's a SAS platform that makes it super easy for a software engineer or anybody on the team to try and buy the software. So 14 day trial. You don't have to talk to anybody if you don't want Thio Awesome support to make sure that people can get on boarded and with our on boarding flow, we've seen that our customers go from signing up to first successful scan of their platform or whatever app they chose to scan in a knave ridge of about 10 minutes. The fastest is eight, right? So it's about delivering value to our customers really quickly. And there aren't many companies insecurity on the market today. That do that? >>You know, you mentioned pen test earlier. I I hear that word. Nice shit. And, like, pen test penetration test, as it's called, um, Sock reports. I mean, these are things that are kind of like I got to do that again. I know these people are doing things that are gonna be automated, but one of the things that cloud native has proven as be killer app is integrations because when you build a modern app, it has to integrate with someone else. So there you need these kind of pen tests. You gotta have this kind of code review. And as code, um, is part of, say, a purpose built device where it's an I o T. Edge updates have toe happen. So you need mawr automation. You need more scale around both updating software to, ah, purpose built device or for integration. What's your thoughts in reaction to that? Because this is a riel software challenge from a customer standpoint, because there are too many tools out there and every see so that I talk to says, I just want to get rid of half the tools consolidate down around my clouds that I'm working through my environment and b'more developer oriented, not just purchasing stuff. So you have all this going on? What's your reaction to that? You got the you know, the integration and you've got the software updates on purpose built devices. >>Yeah, I mean, we I make a joke a little bit. That security land is like, you know, acronyms. Dio there are so many types of security that you could choose to implement. And they all have a home and different use cases that are certainly valuable toe organizations. Um, what we like to focus on and what we think is interesting and dynamic application scanning is because it's been hard toe automate dynamic application for especially for modern applications. I think a lot of companies have ignored theon pertuan ity Thio really invest in this capability and what's cool about dynamic. And you were mentioning pen testing. Is that because it's actively attacking your app? It when you get a successful test, it's like a It's like a successful negative test. It's that the test executed, which means that bug is present in your code. And so there's a lot less false positives than in other types of scanning or assessment technologies. Not to say there isn't a home for them. There's a lot of we could we could spend a whole hour kind of breaking down all the different types of bugs that the different tools confined. Um, but we think that if you want to get started developer first, you know there's a lot of great technologies. Pick a couple or one right pick stack hawk pick, sneak and just get started and put it in your developer workflow. So integrations are super important. Um, we have integrations with every C I C. D provider, making it easy to scan your code on every merge or release. And then we also have workflow integrations for software engineers associated with where they want to be doing work and how they want to be interrupted or told about an issue. So, you know, we're very early to market, but right out of the gate, we made sure that we had a slack integration so that scans are running. Or as we're finding new things, it's populating in a specific slack channel for those engineers who work on that part of the app and you're a integration right. If we find issues, we can quickly make tickets and route them and make sure that the right people are working on those issues. Eso That's how I think about sort of the integration piece and just getting started. It's like you can't tackle the whole like every accurate, um, at once like pick something that helps you get started and then continue to build out your program, as you have success. >>A lot of these tools can they get in the hands of developers, and then you kind of win their trust by having functionality. Uh, certainly a winning strategy we've seen. You know, Splunk, you mentioned where you worked for Data Dog and very other tools out there just get started easily. If it's good, it will be used. So I love that strategy. Question. I wanna ask you mentioned Dr earlier. Um, they got a real popular environment, but that speaks to the open source area. How do you see the role of open source playing with you guys? Is that gonna be part of your community outreach? Does the feed into the product? Could you share your vision on how stack hawks engaging and playing an open source? >>Yeah, absolutely. Um So when we started this company, my co founders and I, we sat down and said here, What are the problems? Okay, the world doesn't need a better scanner, right? If you walk the floor of, ah, security, uh, conference. It's like our tool finds a million things and someone else is. My tool finds a million and five things. Right, And that's how they're competing on value. It's really about making it easy to use and put in the pipeline. So we decided not to roll. Our own scanner were based on an open source capability called Zap the Set Attack Proxy. Uh, it is the most the world's most downloaded application scanner. And, uh, actually we just hired the founder of Zap to join the Stack Hawk team, and we're really excited to continue to invest in the open source community. There is a ton of opportunity to grow and sort of galvanize that community. And then the work that we do with our customers and the feedback that we get about the bugs we find if there, ah, false positive or this one's commonly risk accepted, we can go back to the community, which were already doing and saying, Hey, ditch this rule, Nobody likes it or we need to improve this test. Um, so it's a really nice relationship that we have, and we are looking forward to continuing to grow that >>great stuff. You guys are hot. Start of love. The software on security angle again def sec. Cox is gonna be It's gonna be really popular. Can you talk about some of the customer success is What's the What's the feedback from customers? Can you share some of the use cases that you guys are participating in where you're winning? You mentioned developers love it and try It can just give us a couple of use cases and examples. >>Yeah. Ah, few things. Um ah, lot of our customers are already selling on the notion. Like before we even went to G A right. They told all of their customers that they scan for security bugs with every single release. So in really critical, uh, industry is like fintech, right. It's really important that their customers trust that they're taking security seriously, which everybody says they dio. But they show it to their customers by saying here, every single deploy I can show you if there were any new security bugs released with that deploy. So that's really awesome. Other things We've heard our, uh, people being able to deploy really quickly thio the Salesforce marketplace, right? Like if they have toe have a scan to prove that that they can sell on Salesforce, they do that really rapidly. Eso all of that's going really well with our customers. >>How would I wanna How would I be a customer if I was interested in, um, using Stack Hawks say we have some software we wanna stand up, and, uh, it's super grade. And so Amazon Microsoft Marketplace Stairs Force They'll have requirements or say I want to do a deal with an integration they don't want. They want to make sure there's no nothing wrong with the code. This seems to be a common use case. How doe I if I was a customer, get involved or just download software? Um, what's the What's the procurement? What's the consumption side of it looked like, >>Yeah, you just go to Stockholm dot com and you create an account. If you'd like to get started that way so you can have a 14 day free trial. We have extremely extensive documentation, so it's really easy to get set up that way. You should have some familiarity. Or grab a software engineer who has familiarity with a couple of things. So one is how to use Docker, right? So Docker is, ah, deployment mechanism for the scanner. We do that so you can run it anywhere that you would like to, and we don't have to do things like pierce firewalls or other protective measures that you've instrumented on your production environment. You just run it, um, wherever you like in your system. So locally, C I c d So docker is an important thing to understand the way we configure our scanner is through a, um, a file. So if you are getting a scan today, either your security team is doing it or you have a pen tester doing it. Um, the whole like getting ready for that engagement takes a lot of time because the people who are running the tests don't know how the software was built. So the way we think about this is, just ask them. So you just fill out a Yamil file with parameters that tell the scanner what to dio tell it how to authenticate and not log out. Um, feed us an A p. I speak if you want, so weaken super efficiently, scan your app and you can be up and running really quickly, and then that's it. You can work with our team at any time if you need help, and then we have a really efficient procurement process >>in my experience some of the pen tests of firms out there, is it? It's like the house keeping seal of approval. You get it once and then you gotta go back again. Software change, new things come in. And it's like, Wait a minute, what's the new pen test? And then you to write a check or engaged to have enough meeting? I mean, this is the problem. I mean, too many meetings. Do you >>guys solve that problem? Do >>you solve that problem? >>We solve a piece of that problem. So I think you know, part of how I talk about our company is this idea that we live in a world where we deploy software every single day. Yet it seems reasonable that once a year or twice a year, we go get a pen test where human runs readily available, open source software on our product and gives us a like, quite literal. Pdf of issues on. It's like this is so intellectually dishonest, like we deploy all of the time. So here's the thing. Pen tests are important and everybody should do them. But that should not be the introduction to these issues that are also easy to automate and find in your system. So the way we think about how we work with pen testers is, um, run, stack hawk or zapped right in an automated fashion on your system, and then give that, give the configuration and give the most recent results to your pen tester and say, Go find the hard stuff. You shouldn't be cutting checks for $30,000 to a pen tester or something that you could easily meet in your flare up. Klein. You could write the checks for finding finding the hard stuff that's much more difficult to automate. >>I totally agree. Final question. Business model Once I get in, is it a service software and services? A monthly fee? How do you guys make money? >>Yep, it is software as a service, it is. A monthly fee were early to market. So I'm not going to pretend that we have perfectly cracked the pricing. Um, but the way that we think about this is this is a team product for software engineers and for, you know, informed constituents, right? You want a product person in the product. You want a security person in the product? Um, and we also want to incent you to scan your APS And the most modern fashion, which is scanning the smallest amount of http that lives in your app, like in a micro services architecture because it makes a lot easier, is easy to isolate the problems where they live and to fix those issues really quickly. So we bundle team and for a UPS and then we scale within, uh, companies as they add more team. So pen users. 10 APS is 3 99 a month. And as you add software engineers and more applications, we scale within your company that way. >>Awesome. So if you're successful, you pay more, but doesn't matter. You already succeeded, and that's the benefit of by As you go Great stuff. Final question. One more thing. Your vision of the future. What are the biggest challenges you see in the next 24 months? Plus beyond, um, that you're trying to attack? That's a preferred future that you see evolving. What's the vision? >>Yeah, you've touched on this a couple of times in this interview with uh being remote, and the way that we need to build software already has been modernizing, and I feel like every company has a digital transformation initiative, but it has toe happen faster. And along with that, we have to figure out how Thio protect and secure these Moderna Gail. The most important thing that we do the hearts and minds of our support engineers and make it really easy for them to use security capabilities and then continue to growth in the organization. And that's not an easy thing tied off. It's easy change, a different way of being security. But I think we have to get their, uh, in order to prepare the security, uh, in these rapidly deployed and developed applications that our customers expect. >>Awesome. Jodi Clippers, CEO and founder of Stack Hawk. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thanks for spending the time featured Startup is part of our Cuban cloud. I'm Sean for your host with silicon angle to Cube. Thanks for watching

(lively orchestral music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to this special CUBE Conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, California, theCUBE headquarters. I'm John Furrier, the cofounder of SiliconANGLE Media, cohost of theCUBE. We're here with fellow cloud influencer, friend of theCUBE, Sarbjeet Johal, who's always on Twitter. If you check out my Twitter stream, you'll find out we've always got some threads. He's always jumping in the CrowdChat and I think was in the leaderboard for our last CrowdChat on multi-cloud Kubernetes. Thanks for coming in. >> Yeah, thank you for having me here. >> Thanks for coming in. So you're very prolific on Twitter. We love the conversations. We're gettin' a lot of energy around some of the narratives that have been flowing around, obviously helped this week by the big news of IBM acquiring Red Hat for, what was it, 30, what was the number, 34? >> 34, yeah. >> $34 billion, huge premium, essentially changing the game in open source, some think, some don't, but it begs the question, you know, cloud obviously is relevant. Ginni Rometty, the CEO of IBM, actually now saying cloud is where it's at, 20% have been on the cloud, 80% have not yet moved over there, trillion-dollar market which we called, actually, I called, a few years ago when I wrote my Forbes story about Amazon, the Trillion Dollar Baby I called it. This is real. >> Yeah. So apps are moving to the cloud, value for businesses on the cloud, people are seeing accelerated timelines for shipping. Software. >> Yeah. >> Software offer is eating the world. Cloud is eating software, and data's at the center of it. So I want to get your thoughts on this, because I know that you've been talking a lot about technical debt, you know, the role of developer, cloud migration. The reality is, this is not easy. If you're doin' cloud native, it's pretty easy. >> Still pretty easy, yeah. >> If that's all you got, right, so if you're a startup and/or built on the cloud, you really got the wind at your back, and it's lookin' really good. >> Yeah. >> If you're not born in the cloud, you're an IT shop, they've been consolidating for years, and now told to jump to a competitive advantage, you literally got to make a pivot overnight. >> Yeah, actually, at high level, I think cloud consumption you can divide into two buckets, right? One is the greenfield which, as you said, it's not slam dunk, all these startups are born in cloud, and all these new projects, systems of innovation what I usually refer to those, are born in cloud, and they are operated in cloud, and at some point they will sort of fade away or die in cloud, but the hard part is the legacy applications sitting in the enterprise, right? So those are the trillion dollar sort of what IBM folks are talking about. That's a messy problem to tackle. Within that, actually, there are some low-hanging fruits. Of course, we can move those workloads to the cloud. I usually don't refer the application, the workloads as applications because people are sort of religiously attached to the applications. They feel like it's their babies, right? >> Yeah. >> So I usually say workload, so some workloads are ripe for the cloud. It's data mining, BI, and also the AI part of it, right? So but some other workloads which are not right for the cloud right now or they're hard to move or the ERP system, systems of record and systems of engagement or what we call CRMs and marketing sort of applications which are legacy ones. >> Yeah, hard-coded operationalized software frameworks and packages and vendors like Oracle. >> Yes. >> They're entrenched. >> Oracle SAP, and there's so many other software vendors that have provided tons of software to the data centers that they're sitting there, and the hard part is that nobody wants to pull the plug on the existing applications. I've seen that time and again. I have done, my team has done more than 100 data center audits from EMC and VMware days. We have seen that time and again. Nobody wants to pull the plug on the application. >> 'Cause they're runnin' in production! (laughs) >> They are running in production. And it's hard to measure the usage of those applications, also, that's a hard part of the sort of old stack, if you will. >> Yeah. So the reality is, this is kind of getting to the heart of what we wanted to talk about which is, you know, vendor hype and market realities. >> Yeah. >> The market reality is, you can't unplug legacy apps overnight, but you got a nice thing called containers and Kubernetes emerging, that's nice. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so check, I love that, but still, the reality is, is okay, then who does it? >> Yeah. >> Do I add more complexity? We just had Jerry Chen and hot startup Rockset on, they're trying to reduce the complexity by just having a more simple approach. This is a hard architectural challenge. >> It is. >> So that's one fundamental thing I want to discuss with you. And then there's the practical nature of saying assuming you get the architecture right, migrating and operating. Let's take those as separate, let's talk architecture, then we'll talk operating and migrating. >> Okay. >> Architecturally, what do people do, what are people doing, what you're seeing, what do you think is the right architecture for cloud architects, because that's a booming position. >> Yeah. >> There's more and more cloud architects out there, and the openings for cloud architects is massive. >> Yeah, I think in architecture, the microservices are on the rise. There are enabling technologies behind it. It doesn't happen sort of magically overnight. We have had some open source sort of development in that area the, the RESTful APIs actually gave the ports to the microservices. Now we can easily inter-operate between applications, right? So and our sort of, sorry I'm blanking out, so our way to divide the compute at the sort of micro-chunks from VM, virtual machine, to the container to the next level is the serverless, right? So that is giving ports to the microservices, and the integration technologies are improving at the same time. The problem of SEL lies in the data, which is the storage part and the data part and the network, and the network is closely associated with security. So security and network are two messy parts. They are in the architecture, even in the pure cloud architecture in the Kubernete world, those are two sort of hard parts. And Cisco is trying to address the network part. I speak, I spoke to some folks there, and what they are doing in that space, they are addressing the network and SCODI part, sort of deepening-- >> And it's a good time for them to do that. >> Yeah. >> Because, I mean, you go back, and you know, we covered DevNet Create, which is Susie Wee, she's a rising star at Cisco, and now she's running all of DevNet. So the developer network within Cisco's has a renaissance because, you know, you go back 20 years ago, if you were a network guy, you ran the show, I mean, everything ran the network. The network was everything. The network dictated what would happen. Then it kind of went through a funk of like now cloud native's hot and serverless, but now that programability's hitting the network because remember the holy trinity of transformation is compute, storage, and networking. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> Those aren't going away. >> Yeah, they aren't going away. >> Right, so networking now is seeing some, you know, revitalization because you can program it, you can automate it, you can throw DevOps to it. This is kind of changing the game a little bit. So I'm intrigued by the whole network piece of it because if you can automate some network with containers and Kubernetes and, say, service meshes, then it's become programmable, then you can do the automation, then it's infrastructure, it's code. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Infrastructure is code. It has to cover all three of those things. >> That is true, and another aspect is that we talk about multi-cloud all the time, which Cisco is focusing on also, like IBM, like VMware, like many other players who talk about multi-cloud, but problem with the multi-cloud right now is that you cannot take your security policies from one cloud provider to another and then just say, okay, just run there, right? So you can do the compute easy, containers, right, or Kubernetes are there, but you can't take the network as is, you cannot, you can still take the storage but not storage policies, so the policy-driven computing is still not there. >> Yeah. >> So we need, I think, more innovation in that area. >> Yeah, there's some technical issues. I talk a lot of startups, and they're jumpin' around from Azure to Amazon, and everyone comes back to Amazon because they say, and I'm not going to name names, but I'll just categorically say with what's going on is when they get to Microsoft and Oracle and IBM, the old kind of guards is they come in and they find that they check the boxes on the literature, oh, they do this, that, and that, but it's really just a lot of reverse proxies, there's a lot of homegrown stuff in there-- >> Yeah. >> That are making it work and hang together but not purely built from the ground up. >> Exactly, yeah, so they're actually sort of re-bottling the old sort of champagne kind of stuff, like they re-label old stuff and put layers of abstraction on top of it and that's why we're having those problems with the sort of legacy vendors. >> So let's get into some of the things that I know you're talking about a lot on Twitter, we're engaging on with with the community is migration, and so I want to kind of put a context to the questions so we can riff together on it. Let's just say that you and I were hired by the the CIO of a huge enterprise, financial services, pick your vertical. >> Yeah. >> Hey, Sarbjeet and John, fix my problems, and they give us the keys to the kingdom, bag of money, whatever it takes, go make it happen. What do we do, what's the first things that we do? Because they got a legacy, we know what it looks like, you got the networks, you're racking stack, top-of-rack switches, you got perimeter-based security. We got to go in and kind of level the playing field. What's our strategy, what do we what do we recommend? >> Yeah, the first thing first, right? So first, we need to know the drivers for the migration, right, what is it? Is it a cost-cutting, is it the agility, is it mergers and acquisitions? So what are the, what is the main driver? So that knowing that actually will help us like divvy up the problem, actually divide it up. The next thing, the next best practice is, I always suggest, I've done quite a few migrations, is that do the application portfolio analysis first. You want to find that low-hanging fruit which can be moved to the cloud first. The reason, main reason behind that is that your people and processes need to ease into using the cloud. I use consumption term a lot, actually on Twitter you see that, so I'm a big fan of consumption economics. So your people and processes need to adapt, like your change control, change management, ITSM, the old stuff still is valid, actually. We're giving it a new name, but those problems don't go away, right? How you log a ticket, how you how the support will react and all that stuff, so it needs to map to the cloud. SLA is another less talked about topic in our circles on Twitter, and our industry partners don't talk about, but that's another interesting part. Like what are the SLAs needed for, which applications and so forth. So first do the application profiling, find the low-hanging fruit. Go slow in the beginning, create the phases, like phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four. And it also depends number, on the number of applications, right? IBM folks were talking about that thousand average number of applications per enterprise. I think it's more than thousand, I've seen it. And that, just divvy up the problem. And then another best practice I've learned is migrate as is, do not transform and migrate, because then you're at, if something is not working over there or the performance problem or any latency problem, you will blame it on your newer architecture, if you will. Move as is, then then transform over there. And if you want me to elaborate a little more on the transformation part, I usually divide transformation into three buckets, actually this is what I tell the CIOs and CTOs and CEOs, that transformation is of three types. Well, after you move, transformation, first it is the infrastructure-led transformation. You can do the platforming and go from Windows to Linux and Linux to AIX and all that stuff, like you can go from VM to container kind of stuff, right? And the second is a process-led transformation, which is that you change your change control, change management, policy-driven computing, if you will, so you create automation there. The third thing is the application where you open the hood of the application and refactor the code and do the Web service enablement of your application so that you can weave in the systems of innovation and plug those into the existing application. So you want to open your application. That's the whole idea behind all this sort of transformation is your applications are open so you can bring in the data and take out the data as you weave. >> From your conversations and analysis, how does cloud, once migrations happen in cloud operations, how does that impact traditional network, network architecture, network security, and application performance? >> On the network side, actually, how does it, let me ask you a question, what do you mean by how does it-- >> In the old days, used a provisional VLAN. >> The older stuff? >> So I got networks out there, I got a big enterprise, okay, we know how to run the networks, but now I'm movin' to the cloud. >> Yeah. >> I'm off premises, I'm on premise, now I'm in the cloud. >> Yeah. >> How do I think about the network's differently? Whose provisioning the subnets, who's doing the VPNs? You know, where's the policy, all these policy-based things that we're startin' to see at Kubernetes. >> Yeah. >> They were traditionally like networks stuff-- >> You knew what it was. >> That's now happening at the microservices level. >> Yeah. >> So new paradigm. >> The new paradigm, actually, the whole idea is that your network folks, your storage folks, your server folks, like what they were used to be in-house, they need to be able to program, right? That's the number one thing. So you need to retrain your workforce, right? If you don't have the, you cannot retrain people overnight, and then you bring in some folks who know how to program networks and then bring those in. There's a big misconception about, from people, that the service, sorry, the service provider, which is called cloud service provider, is it responsible for the security of your applications or for the network, sort of segmentation of your network. They are not, actually, they don't have any liability over security if you read the SLAs. It's your responsibility to have the sort of right firewalling, right checks and balances in place for the network for storage, for compute, right policies in place. It's your responsibility. >> So let's talk about the, some tweets you've been doin' 'cause I've been wanting to pull the ones that I like. You tweeted a couple days ago, we don't know how to recycle failed startups. >> Yeah. (chuckles) >> Okay, and I said open source. And you picked up and brought up another image, is open source a dumping ground for failed startups? And it was interesting because what I love about open source is, in the old days of proprietary software, if the company went under, the code went under with it, but at least now, with open source, at least something can survive. But you bring up this dumping concept, that also came up in an interview earlier today with another guest which was with all this contribution coming in from vendors, it's almost like there's a dumping going on into open source in general, and you can't miss a beat without five new announcements per day that's, you know, someone's contributing their software from this project or a failed, even failed startup, you know, last hope, let's open source it. Is that good or bad, I mean, what's your take on that, what was your posture or thinking around this conversation? It is good, is it bad? >> Yeah, I believe it's, it's a economic problem, economics thing, right? So when somebody's like proprietary model doesn't work, they say, okay, let me see if this works, right? Actually, they always go first with like, okay let me sell-- >> Make money. >> Let me make money, right? A higher margin, right, everybody loves that, right? But then, if they cannot penetrate the market, they say, okay, let me make it open source, right? And then I will get the money from the support, or my own distro, like, distros are a big like open source killer, I said that a few times. Like the vendor-specific distributions of open source, they kill open source like nothing else does. Because I was at Rackspace when we open-sourced OpenStack, and I saw what happened to OpenStack. It was like eye-opening, so everybody kind of hijacked OpenStack and started putting their own sort of flavors in place. >> Yeah, yeah, we saw the outcome of that. >> Yeah. >> It niched into infrastructures of service, kind of has a special purpose-built view. >> And when I-- >> And that it comes cloud native didn't help either. Cloud grew at that time, too, talking about the 2008 timeframe. >> Yeah, yeah, and exactly. And another, why I said that was, it was in a different context, actually, I invested some money into an incubator in Berkeley, The Batchery, so we have taken what, 70-plus startups through that program so far, and I've seen that pattern there. So I will interview the people who want to bring their startup to our incubator and all that, and then after, most of them fail, right? >> Yeah. >> They kind of fade away or they leave, they definitely leave our incubator after a certain number of weeks, but then you see like what happens to them, and now also living in the Valley, you can't avoid it. I worked with 500 Startups a little bit and used to go to their demo days from the Rackspace days because we used to have a deal with them, a marketing deal, so the pattern I saw that was, there's a lot of innovation, there was a lot of brain power in these startups that we don't know what, these people just fade away. We don't have a mechanism to say, okay, hey you are doing this, and we are also doing similar stuff, we are a little more successful than, let's merge these two things and make it work. So we don't know how to recycle the startups. So that's what was on it. >> It's almost a personal network of intellectual capital. >> Yeah. >> Kind of, there needs to be a new way to network in the IP that's in people's heads. Or in this case, if it's open source, that's easy there, too, so being inaccessible. >> So there's no startup, there's no Internet of startups, if you will. >> Yeah, so there's no-- >> Hey, you start a CUBE group. (Sarbjeet laughing) You'll do it, start a CrowdChat. All right, I want to ask you about this consumption economics. >> Yeah. >> I like this concept. Can you take a minute to explain what you mean by consumption economics? You said you're all over it. I know you talk a lot about it on Twitter. >> Yes. >> What is it about, why is it important? >> Actually, the pattern I've seen in tech industry for last 25, 24 years in Silicon Valley, so the pattern I've seen is that everybody focuses on the supply side, like we do this, we like, we're going to change the way you work and all that stuff, but people usually do not focus on the consumption side of things, like people are consuming things. I'm a great fan of a theory called Jobs to Be Done theory. If you get a time, take a look at that. So what jobs people are trying to do and how you can solve that problem. Actually, if you approach your products, services from that angle, that goes a long way. Another aspect I talk about, the consumption economics, is age of micro-consumption, and again, there are reasons behind it. The main reason is there's so much thrown at us individually and and also enterprise-wise, like so much technology is thrown at us, if we try to batch, like if were ready to say, okay, we're not going to consume the technology now, and we're going to do every six months, like we're going to release every six months, or new software or new packages, and also at the same time, we will consume every six months, that doesn't work. So the whole notion when I talk about the micro-consumption is that you keep bringing the change in micro-chunks. And I think AWS has mastered the game of micro-supply, as a micro-supplier of that micro-change. >> Yeah. >> If you will. So they release-- >> And by the way, they're very customer-centric, so listening to the demand side. >> Exactly. So they kind of walk hand in hand with the customer in a way that customer wants this, so they're needing this, so let us release it. They don't wait for like old traditional model of like, okay, every year there's a new big release and there are service packs and patches and all that stuff, even though other vendors have moved along the industry. But they still have longer cycles, they still release like 10 things at a time. I think that doesn't work. So you have to give, as a supplier, to the masses of the workers of the world in HPs and IBMs, give the change in smaller chunks, don't give them monolithic. When you're marketing your stuff, even marketing message should be in micro-chunks, like or even if you created like five sort of features and sort of, let's, say in Watson, right, just give them one at a time. Be developer-friendly because developers are the people who will consume that stuff. >> Yeah, and then making it more supply, less supply side but micro-chunks or microservices or micro-supply. >> Yeah. >> Having a developer piece also plays well because they're also ones who can help assemble the micro, it's in a LEGO model of composeability. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And so I think that's definitely right. The other thing I wanted to get your thoughts on is validated by Jerry Chen at Greylock and his hot startups and a few others is my notion of stack overhaul. The changes in the stack are significant. I tweeted, and you commented on it, on the Red Hat IBM deal 'cause they were talkin' about, oh, the IBM stack is going to be everywhere, and they're talking about the IBM stack and the old full-stack developer model, but if you look at the consumption economics, you look at horizontally scalable cloud, native serverless and all those things goin' on with Kubernetes, the trend is a complete radical shifting of the stack where now the standardization is the horizontally scalable, and then the differentiations at the top of the stack, so the stack has tweaked and torqued it a little bit. >> Yeah. >> And so this is going to change a lot. Your thoughts and reaction to that concept of stack, not a complete, you know, radical wholesale change, but a tweak. >> Actually our CTO at Rackspace, John Engates, gave us a sort of speech at one of the kind of conferences here in Bay Area, the title of that was Stack, What Stack, right? So the point he was trying to make was like stack is like, we are not in the blue stack, red stack anymore, so we are a cross-stack, actually. There are a lot of the sort of small LEGO pieces, we're trying to put those together. And again, the reason behind that is because there's some enabling technology like Web services in RESTful APIs, so those have enabled us to-- >> And new kinds of glue layers, if you will. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Abstraction layers. >> Yeah, I call it digital glue. There's a new type of digital glue, and now we have, we are seeing the emergence of low code, no code sort of paradigms coming into the play, which is a long debate in itself. So they are changing the stack altogether. So everything is becoming kind of lightweight, if you will, again-- >> And more the level of granularity is getting, you know, thinner and thinner, not macro. So you know, macroservices doesn't exist. That was my, I think, my tweet, you know, macroservices or microservices? >> Yeah. >> Which one you think's better? And we know what's happening with microservices. That is the trend. >> That is the trend. >> So that is that antithesis of macro. >> Yeah. >> Or monolithic. >> Yeah, so there's a saying in tech, actually I will rephrase it, I don't know exactly how that is, so we actually tend to overestimate the impact of a technology in the short run and underestimate in the long term, right? So there's a famous saying somebody, said that, and that's, I think that's so true. What we actually wanted to do after the dot-com bust was the object-oriented, like the sort of black box services, it as, we called them Web services back then, right? >> Yeah. >> There were books written by IBM-- >> Service-oriented architecture-- >> Yeah, SOA. >> Web services, RSS came out of that. >> Yes. >> I mean, a lot of good things that are actually in part of what the vision is happening today. >> It's happening now actually, it just happening today. And mobile has changed everything, I believe, not only on the consumer side, even on the economic side. >> I mean, that's literally 16, 17 years later. >> Yes, exactly, it took that long. >> It's the gestation period. >> Yes. >> Bitcoin 10 years ago yesterday, the white paper was built. >> Yeah. >> So the acceleration's certainly happening. I know you're big fan of blockchain, you've been tweeting about it lately. Thoughts on blockchain, what's your view on blockchain? Real, going to have a big impact? >> I think it will have huge impact, actually. I've been studying on it, actually. I was light on it, now I'm a little bit, I'm reading on it this and I understand. I've talked to people who are doing this work. I think it will have a huge impact, actually. The problem right now with blockchain is that, the speed, right? >> It's slow, yeah. So yeah, it's very slow, doc slow, if you will. But I think that is a technical problem, we can solve that. There's no sort of functional problem with the blockchain. Actually, it's a beautiful thing. Another aspect which come into play is the data sovereignty. So blockchains actually are replicated throughout the world if you want the worldwide money exchange and all that kind of stuff going around. We will need to address that because the data in Switzerland needs to sit there, and data in the U.S. needs to stay in the U.S. That blockchain actually kind of, it doesn't do that. You have a copy of the same data everywhere. >> Yeah, I mean, you talk about digital software to find money, software to find data center. I mean, it's all digital. I mean, someone once said whatever gets digitized grows exponentially. (Sarbjeet laughing) Oh, that was you! >> Actually I-- >> On October 30th. >> That was, that came from a book, actually. It's called Exponential Organizations. Actually, they're two great books I will recommend for everybody to read, actually there's a third one also. So (laughs) the two are, one is Exponential Organizations. It's a pretty thin book, you should take, pick it up. And it talks about like whatever get digitized grows exponentially, but our organizations are not, like geared towards handling that exponential growth. And the other one is Consumption Economics. The title of the book is Consumption Economics, actually. I saw that book after I started talking about it, consumption economics myself. I'm an economics major, actually, so that's why I talk about that kind of stuff and those kind comments, so. >> Well, and I think one of the things, I mean, we've talked about this privately when we've seen each other at some of theCUBE events, I think economics, the chief economic officer role will be a title that will be as powerful as a CSO, chief security officer, because consumption economics, token economics which is the crypto kind of dynamic of gamification or network effects, you got economics in cloud, you got all kinds of new dynamics that are now instrumented that need, that are, they're throwin' off numbers. So there's math behind things, whether it's cryptocurrency, whether it's math behind reputation, or any anything. >> Yeah. >> Math is driving everything, machine learning, heavy math-oriented algorithms. >> Yeah, actually at the end of the day, economics matters, right? That's what we are all trying to do, right? We're trying to do things faster cheaper, right? That's what automation is all about. >> And simplifying, too. >> And simplifying service. >> You can't throw complexity in, more complexity. >> Yeah. >> That's exponential complexity. >> Sometimes while we are trying to simplify things, and I also said, like many times the tech is like medicine, right? I've said that many times. (laughs) Tech is like medicine, every pill has a side effect. Sometimes when we are trying to simplify stuff, we add more complexity, so. >> Yeah. What's worse, the pain or the side effects? Pick your thing. >> Yeah, you pick your thing. And your goal is to sort of reduce the side effects. They will be there, they will be there. And what is digital transformation? It's all about business. It's not, less about technology, technology's a small piece of that. It's more about business models, right? So we're trying to, when we talk about micro-consumption and the sharing economy, they're kind of similar concepts, right? So Ubers of the world and Airbnbs all over the world, so those new business models have been enabled by technology, and we want to to replicate that with the medicine, with the, I guess, education, autos, and you name it. >> So we obviously believe in microcontent at theCUBE. We've got the Clipper tool, the search engine. >> I love that. >> So the CUBEnomics. It's a book that we should be getting on right away. >> Yeah, we should do that! >> CUBEnomics. >> CUBEnomics, yeah. >> The economics behind theCUBE interviews. Sarbjeet, thank you for coming on. Great to see you, and thank you for your participation-- >> Thanks, John. >> And engagement online in our digital community. We love chatting with you and always great to see you, and let's talk more about economics and digital exponential growth. It's certainly happening. Thanks for coming in, appreciate it. >> It was great having, being here, actually. >> All right, the CUBE Conversation, here in Palo Alto Studios here for theCUBE headquarters. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (lively orchestral music)

>> [Narrator] From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusets, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, Dave Vellante here coming at you from our East Coast studios in Marlborough, MA just outside of Boston. What I wanted to do is give you a little recap of 2017 and what's happening and give you an update on SiliconANGLE Media. So as many of you know SiliconANGLE Media INC comprises three brands. TheCUBE, which as most of you know is we call it sometimes the ESPN of tech, it's our live and on demand video broadcasting element. And of course we have the research arm which is Wikibon and Wikibon.com And then, SiliconANGLE is our news site. And so I want to just, as I said, recap what went down in 2017 some of the things you may not know about. >> Last February, February first, actually we opened the new studio in Palo Alto, California. It's at 989 Commercial ST, you should check it out. It's sort of near the mountain view line but it's in Palo Alto, it's a great location, we have a large studio there. And throughout the year, in 2017 we held events, we had launches, but most importantly John Furrier, my business partner, is really running editorial content programs out of that studio. >> So every Thursday Furrier has high level key guests come in CEOs, VCs, in customers, and they just riff on what's going on in the industry and what's happening It's been an absolutely awesome resource for us and I really encourage you guys to go check it out. We did 135 show days last year. TheCUBE is run by our general manager, Jeff Frick and 135 show days meaning we broadcast live at 135 days at events last year, which is just incredible. >> It was our first year we ever did anything in China We did the Alibaba conference, the cloud show there that was very exciting. We did a number of shows in Europe and of course all the big shows in the United States as well >> We launched three websites last year. TheCUBE.net is the latest one. You know, a lot of times we talk about data driven media. If you go to theCube.net and check it out, you'll see something called theCUBE Alumni database. And theCUBE Alumni database contains virtually everybody who's ever been on theCUBE. So you can search CIOs, CEOs, developers, bloggers, analysts all the folks that have been on theCUBE you can see and they've got a profile page on each one of those so, we're collecting all that data SiliconANGLE.com we launched the new website >> SiliconANGLE is run by Rob Hof, who is our Editor-in-Chief Rob was the Silicon Valley beuro chief for business week for the better part of a decade, so we're really proud to have Rob on. He's been on for the last couple of years and just doing a great job with that site. >> And then Wikibon.com is run by Peter Burris he's our Chief Research Officer He's been with us now for the better part of 2 years and he's got that team cranking on all kinds of research in cloud and AI and data orientation, the edge, and infrastructure for emerging applications like AI. >> One of the areas we're most excited about that we launched in 2017 was a new capability called Clipper. So we have this tool called Video Clipper as you know, John Furrier and I, when we met we had this vision for data driven media and innovation and we launched this tool we call video clipper that was developed by Kent Libbey and his team one of our newer executives that we brought in last year on the product side. >> What Video Clipper does is we transcribe every video now that we do, we'll transcribe this video, and then we synchronize the transcript with the video and we're able to then search video, highlight a text, a paragraph let's say, push a button and boom we've got a clip and that clip is ready to be shared throughout various social media platforms like Twitter, and LinkedIn, and Facebook and the like So very, very excited about that tool you're going to be hearing more about that We don't sell it as a separate tool, we integrate it as part of our offerings and got some new offerings that we're bringing to customers in 2018. >> One of the other really exciting things in 2017 we brought in a new chief revenue officer his name is Greg Theriault, I'm going to introduce you to him today Greg Theriault is with me here in studio, Greg, it's great see you, thanks for spending some time with us. >> [Greg] Thank you, Dave, thanks for the opportunity I've never been more excited. Let me tell you a little bit about myself I live in Concord, MA right around the studio here and I came from the IT industry. I've been there for a long time. I used to be at a small systems integrator, kind of the size of SiliconANGLE Media, building client servers, computing, got certified in Novell, and then I jumped into sales. I worked most recently at Forester Research and was there for almost 18 years, two decades, building the sales capabilities, always wrapped around the customers, but I am thrilled to be here today >> [Dave] So, Novell, when our network goes down can you help us fix that? >> It was about 20 years ago but, you know the history with Novell >> Yeah, another Utah company that somehow didn't make it, but for a while they were a little monopoly. So you've been in the business now for a couple of decades maybe, you know, think about what has happened over the last 20 years, what kind of changes have you seen? Share with us your perspectives. >> I've never seen so much disruption from client server, to social computing, to AI, now it's digital disruption in everything and you hear about this all the time in the news that companies are becoming software companies look around the corner, GE is now GE digital, they're trying to reinvent themselves, very, very exciting times. AI machine learning, autonomous computing, and then right around the corner there's block chain I mean that's the big buzz these days Also there's the autonomous vehicles, and let em give you a quick story About two years ago my son was born and I was fortunate enough to have a breakfast with the CEO of Tesla, and I asked him "Hey, he was born, what's going to happen in 16 years?" and JB said to me quite candidly, he said "if your son is driving a car that's not autonomous it won't be safe and he won't need a license" So, things are happening at an epic speed I don't know I these prediction will be true but it is Telsa >> [Dave] Won't need a license, you know it's funny, I mean, I don't know how you feel about it but when I turned 16 it was one of the most exciting days of a young person's life. You wonder what the social implications of that is if you don't need a license, I don't know maybe they can start driving at 14 or 13, you know whatever but you know what I'm saying? >> [Greg] Yeah That was a really exciting time we couldn't wait to get our permits and "Dad can I drive you to the dump?" Right? It's like... >> Self driving cars and self driving refrigerators, I mean, it's moving fast it's at an epic speed right now >> Well everything, and again, you take that business it's all about the data, as I said in my intro we always talk about data driven media we got so much data, you talk about digital transformation, philosophy is digital meets data >> Right >> and you talked about GE you're seeing all these companies now getting disrupted because digital allows people to move so fast, it allows companies like Apple to get into financial servies and you're seeing Amazon become a content company and it's really all around the data, isn't it? >> [Greg] Absolutely >> So, I wonder if you could share with our audience, SiliconANGLE Media, small company you came from a much larger firm, a big brand, Forester, your former company. What attracted you to SiliconANGLE Media? >> I think it was the fact that I jumped on airplane and went out to Palo Alto and met with your general managers. I think the innovation and the speed, the speed around it's in your DNA and then you took social computing, combined it with really computing power. And then I saw the Video Clipper tool. It's the fastest application I've ever seen to clip video and that innovation, the speed really attracted me to the company, to build really powerful content >> [Dave] Yeah it's been quite a ride since I met John Furrier in 2010. You know, John at the time, said "Dave, whatever we do we have to innovate. "We have to continue to invest in R&D" And those R&D experiments they don't always pay off but when one hits, like the Clipepr tool, it can be a home run so we're very excited about that. Share with us your philosophy, what can we expect from Greg Theriault? >> [Greg] Sure, I appreciate that. Well I'm happy to be here I actually blogged on LinkedIn over the weekend about my transition here, and I think it starts off with my family, my son and my wife they helped me, they grounded me, but my philosophy on business is to really be customer focused to hire the right people, train and coach, and build a different mindset which I call the growth mindset the sales rep of the future is being disrupted right now just like very other function. And that is absolutely pivotal. I think the buyers change, Dave. Faster in two years than the past 100 years the buyer is in control, you have to build systems, processes and technologies wrapped around how do you help the customer be successful at drygrowth and that's the biggest shift going on right now I mean sales right now, again, is being disrupted so social selling and things like that, I want to bring that kind of discipline and processes to SiliconANGLE Media >> [Dave] Well, what about social selling? A lot of people will, when social media really started to come into play, a lot of people say "well, we sell to IT people, and IT people, they don't have time to go on Twitter, they don't do Facebook" What's your perspective, has that changed you know and what about that? >> It's changed faster than I could ever believe buyers buy differently but they also need to see the different presence in social that's Twitter, that's LinkedIn, and that's also you have to be on the phone, you have to be in front of customers but it absolutely is pivotal that the new, let's call it a digital rep, needs to understand the tools to listen. Listen to the customer first and foremost, and it's a new channel but it's a channel here for a long time. Again, it's disrupting sales at an epic pace >> [Dave] So what are your priorities, looking out, say, near term, mid-term, long term? >> [Greg] To wrap my hand around the customer base you have to innovate with them, with the team we build And also to build the collaborative culture I'm really into culture and the ability to kind of game-afy the culture, grow the business, accelerate the business, and also develop the team that we build. I mean, the aspirations to where do they want to be in a couple years will help build the business and that's a global business as well >> Well, of course, a lot of the action in the tech business is out in Silicon Valley, and you and I are based here in the East coast, What can we expect in terms of your presence in Silicon Valley? >> I'll be on a plane a lot, and I don't mind that at all I mean, it's a flat country right now So I'll be on a plane, but also the heat is in Boston, New York, Chicago, but the Valley is where it's at so I'm going to be jumping on plane in two weeks to meet with the team, I can't wait >> [Dave] Well, we're excited Greg, to have an executive of your callabor join our team. >> [Greg] Thank you, appreciate that >> Congratulations, and look forward to many, many years of productive growth and adding value for our clients with you >> [Greg] Likewise, thank you >> Alright, you're welcome. Thanks for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante with Greg Theriault, we'll see you next time.