>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the queue covering Sisqo, Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, Everyone Live here in Barcelona, Spain's two Cubes Coverage of Sisqo Live Europe. Twenty nineteen. I'm John Foreal echoes David Lock. Our next guest is Liz Santoni, senior vice president general manager of the Eye Okay Group at Cisco, formerly is part of the engineering team Cube Alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming >> on. Great to be here, >> so you're >> just good to see you guys. >> You're in the centre. A lot of news. I ot of the network redefining networking on stage. We heard that talk about your role in the organization of Sisko and the product that you now have and what's going on here. >> So run R I O T business group similar to what we do with the end data center off that it has the engineering team product management team. We build products solutions that includes hardware, software, silicon. Take him out to market. Really an eye. OT It's about, you know, the technology conversation comes second. It's like, What can you deliver in terms of use, case and business outcomes that comes first, and it's more about what technology can enable that. So the conversations we have with customers are around. How can he really solve my kind of real problems? Everything from one a girl, my top line? I want to get closer to my customers because the closer I get to my customers, I know them better. So obviously can turn around and grow my top line. And I want to optimize everything from internal process to external process because just improves my bottom line at the end >> of the day. So you a lot of news happening here around your team. But first talk about redefining networking in context to your part, because edge of the network has always been what is, you know the edge of the network. Now it's extending further. I. O. T. Is one of those things that people are looking at a digit digitization standpoint, turning on Mohr intelligence with the factory floor or other areas. How how are how is I ot changing and what is it today? >> So you gave an example of, you know, digitizing something like a factory floor, right? So let's talk about that. So what customers in the factory floor want to do. They've already automated a number of this factory floors, but what they want to do is get more efficient. They want better eo. They want better quality. They want to bring security all the way down to the plant floor because the more and more you connect things, the more you just expanded your threat surface out pretty significantly so they want to bring security down to the plant floor. Because the's are environments that are not brand new, they have brown feel equipment there, green field equipment. They want to be able to have control of where what device gets in the network. With things like device profiling, they want to be able to do things like create zones so that they could do that with things like network segmentation. So when and if an attack does happen, they can contain the attack as much as possible. All right now what you need in terms ofthe a factory floor, automation, security, to be able to scale tohave that flexibility That's no different than what you have in the Enterprise already. I mean, we've been working with our idea and enterprise customers for years, and, you know, they it's about automation and security. It's about simplicity. Why not extend that out? The talent that it has, the capability that has it really is a connective tissue, that you're extending your network from that carpeted space, or you're clean space into outside of the office or into the non carpeted space. So it's perfect in terms of saying it's about extending the network into the nontraditional space that probably it doesn't go into today. >> Well, right. And it's a new constituency, right? So how are you sort of forging new relationships, new partnerships? What is described, what that's like with operations technology? >> I mean, that Cisco. We have great partnerships with the Tea organisation. I mean, we've got more than eight hundred forty thousand customers and our sales teams are product. Teams do a good job in terms of listening to customers. We're talking more and more to the line of business. We're talking more and more to the operational teams >> because of the end of >> the day. I want to be candid. You know, going to a manufacturing floor. I've never run a plan. Floor right? There are not very many people in the team who conceived in a plant manager before they know they're processes. They're concerned about twenty four seven operation. Hey, I want to be in compliance with the fire marshal, physical safety of my workers. We come in with that. I p knowledge that security knowledge that they need it's a partnership. I mean, people talk about, you know, t convergence. Usually convergence means that somebody's going to lose their job. This is Maura Night, an OT partnership, and most of these digitization efforts usually come in for the CEO level. Laura Chief Digitization Officer. We've got good relationships there already. Second part is Sister has been in this. We're quite some time. Our team's already have relationships at the plant level at the grid level operator level. You know, in the in the oil and gas area what we need to build more and more of that because building more and more that is really understanding. What business problems are they looking to solve? Then we can bring the technology to it. >> Liz, what's that in the Enable Menu? Mission Partnership? That's a good point. People, you know, someone wins, someone loses. The partnership is you're enabling your bringing new capability into the physical world, from wind wind farms to whatever What is the enablement look like? What are some of the things that happen when you guys come into these environments that are being redefined and reimagined? Or for the first time, >> Yeah, I would say, you know, I use what our customers said this morning and what he said was, it has the skills that I >> need, all right. >> They have the eyepiece skills. They have a security seals. These are all the things that I need. I want my guys to focus on kind of business processes around things that they know best. And so we're working with a CZ part of what we're putting this extended enterprise extending in ten based networking to the i o T edge means ight. Hee already knows our tools are capabilities. We're now saying we can extend that Let's go out, figure out what those use cases are together. This is why we're working with the not just the working with our channel partners as well. Who can enable these implementations on i o t implementations work? Well, >> part of >> this is also a constant, you know learning from each other. We learned from the operational teams is that hey, you can start a proof of concept really well, but he can really take it to deployment unless you address things around the complexity, the scale and the security. That's where we can come in and help. >> And you can't just throw your switches and routers over the fence. And so okay, here you go. You have to develop specific solutions for this world, right? And when you talk about that a little bit, absolutely. So >> if you look at the networking industrial networking portfolio that we have, it's built on the same catalysts, itis our wireless, a peace, our firewall. But they're more customized for this non carpeted space, right? You've got to take into consideration that these air not sitting in a controlled environment, so we test them for temperature, for shock, for vibration. But it's also built on the same software. So we're talking about the same software platform. You get the same automation features you get, the same analytics features. It's managed by DNA center. So even though we're customizing the hardware for this environment, the software platform that you get is pretty much the same, so it can come in and manage both those environments. But it also needs an understanding of what, What's the operational team looking to solve for? >> Because I want to ask you about the psychology of the buyer in this market because OT there run stuff that's just turn it on. But in the light ball, make it work. Well, I got to deploy something, so they're kind of expectations might be different. Can you share what the expectations are for the kind of experience that they wanna have with Tech? >> I used a utility is a great example and our customer from energy. I think, explain this really well, this is thing that we learned from our customers, right? I haven't been in a substation. I've been in a data center multiple times, but I haven't been in a substation. So when they're talking about automating substation, we work with customers. We've been doing this over the last ten years. We've been working with that energy team for the last two years. They taught us, really, how they secure and managing these environments. You're not going to find a CC in this environment, So when you want to send somebody out to like sixty thousand substations and you want to check on Hey, do do I still have VPN connectivity? They're not going to be able to troubleshoot it. What we did is based on the customer's ask, put a green light on there and led that shines green. All the technician does is look at it and says it's okay. If not, they called back in terms of trouble shooting it. It was just a simple example of where it's. It's different in terms of how they secure and manage on the talent that they have is different than what's in the space. So you've got to make sure that your products also cover what the operational teams need because you're not dealing with the C. C A. Or the I P experts, >> a classic market fit product market fit for what they're expecting correct led to kick around with green light. I mean, >> you know, everybody goes that such an easy thing inside was >> not that perceptive to us. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned as you move from Cisco Engineering out to the new frontier on the edge here? What? What are the learnings that you've seen actually growing mark early. It's only going to get larger, more complicated, more automation. Morey, I'm or things. What's your learning? What have you seen so far? That's the takeaway. >> So I'll see, you know, be I'm still an Cisco Engineering. The reason we're in Coyote is that a secure and reliable network that it's the foundation of any eye. Ot deployment, right? You can go out and best buy the best sensor by the best application by the best middle where. But if you don't have that foundation that's secure and reliable, those, Iet projects are not going to take off. So it's pretty simple. Everyone's network is thie enabler of their business outcome, and that's why we're in it. So this is really about extending that network out, but at the same time, understanding. What are we looking to solve for, right? So in many cases we worked with third party party hers because some of them know these domains much better than we do. But we know the AIP wear the eye patch and the security experts, and we bring that to the table better than anybody else. >> And over the top, definite showing here for the second year that we've covered it here in definite zone, that when you have that secure network that's programmable really cool things and develop on top of it. That's what great opportunity >> this is. I'm super excited that we now have an i o. T. Definite in. You know, it's part of our entire Cisco. Definite half a million developers. You know, Suzy, we and team done a fabulous job. There's more and more developers going to be starting to develop at the I o. T edge at the edge of the network. Right. So when you look at that is our platforms today with dioxin saw on top of it. Make this a software platform that developers Khun can actually build applications to. It's really about, you know, that we're ready. Highest fees and developers unleashing those applications at the i o. T edge. And with Susie making that, you know, available in terms of the tools, the resource is the sand box that you can get. It's like we expect to see more and more developers building those applications at the >> edge. We gotta talk about your announcements, right? Oh, >> yeah. Exciting set >> of hard news. >> So we launch for things today as part of Extending Ibn or in ten based networking to the I. O. T. S. The first one is we've got three new Cisco validated design. So think of a validated design as enabling our customers to actually accelerate their deployments. So our engineering teams try to mimic a CZ muchas possible a customer's environment. And they do this pre integration, pre testing of our products, third party products and we actually put him out by industry. So we have three new ones out there for manufacturing, for utilities and for mode and mobile assets. That's one. The second one is we're launching two new hardware platforms on next generation catalysts Industrial Ethernet switch. It's got modularity of interfaces, and it's got nine expansion packs. The idea is making as flexible as possible for a customer's deployment, because these boxes might sit in an environment not just for three years, like in a campus, they could sit there for five for seven for ten years. So, as you know, they are adding on giving them that flexibility that concave a bit based system and just change the expansion modules. We also launch on next generation industrial router. Actually, is the industries probably first and only full six capable industrial router, and it's got again flexibility of interfaces. We have lt. We have fiber. We have copper. You want deal? Lt. You can actually slap an expansion pack right on top of it. When five G comes in, you just take the Lt Munch a lot. You put five G, so it's five G ready >> engines on there >> and it's based on Io Exit us sexy. It's managed by DNA center and its edge enabled. So they run dialects. You, Khun, build your applications and load him on so >> you can >> build them. Third >> parties have peace here. >> The definite pieces. That third one is where we now have, you know, and I OT developer center in the definite zone. So with all the tools that are available, it enables developers and IAS peas, too. Actually, we build on top of Io Axe today. In fact, we actually have more than a couple of three examples that are already doing that. And the fourth thing is we depend on a large ecosystem of channel partners, So we've launched an Io ti specialization training program to enable them to actually help our customers implementation go faster. So those are the four things that we brought together. The key thing for us was designing these for scale flexibility and security >> capabilities available today. Is that right? >> Absolutely. In fact, if you go in worshipping in two weeks and you can see them at the innovation showcase, it's actually very cool. >> I was going to mention you brought ecosystem. Glad you brought that. I was gonna ask about how that's developing. I could only imagine new sets of names coming out of the industry in terms of building on these coyotes since his demand for Io ti. It's an emerging market in terms of newness, with a lot of head room. So what's ecosystem look like? Missouri patterns and Aya's vsv ours as they take the shape of the classic ecosystem? Or is it a new set of characters? Or what's the makeup of the >> island's ecosystem, >> I would say is in many ways, if you've been in the eye ot world for sometime, you'll say, You know, it's not like there's a whole new set of characters. Yes, you have more cloud players in there, you You probably have more s eyes in there. But it's been like the distributor's Arvin there. The machine builders thie ot platforms. These folks have been doing this for a long time. It's more around. How do you partner and where do you monetize? We know where you know the value we bring in we rely on. We work very closely with this OT partners machine builders s eyes the cloud partners to go to market and deliver this. You're right. The market's going to evolve because the whole new conversation is around. Data. What do I collect? What do I computer the edge? Where do I go around it to? Should I take it to my own premises? Data centers. Should I take it to the cloud who gets control over the data? How do I make sure that I have control over the data as a customer and I have control over who gets to see it? So I think this will be a revolving conversation. This is something we're enabling with one of our Connecticut platforms, which are not launch. It's already launched in terms of enabling customers to have control over the data and managed to bring >> all the portfolio of Cisco Security Analytics management to the table that puts anything in the world that has power and connectivity to be a device to connect into its system. This is the way it's just I mean, how obvious going Beat commits a huge >> I'm grateful that it's great that you think it's obvious. That's exactly what we're trying to tell our customers. >> How to do is >> about extending >> the way >> we do. It's the playbook, right? Each business has its own unique. There's no general purpose. Coyote is their correct pretty much custom because, um, well, thanks for coming on this. Appreciate it when I ask you one final question. You know, I was really impressed with Karen. Had a great session on wall kind of session yesterday. Impact with women. We interviewed you a Grace offered twenty fifteen. Cisco's doing amazing work. You take a minute to talk about some of the things that Cisco's doing around women in computing. Women in stem. Just great momentum, great success story, great leadership. >> I would say Look at her leadership at Chuck's level, and I think that's a great example in terms of He brings people on, depending on what they can, what they bring to the table, right? They just happened to be a lot of women out there. And the reality is I work for a company that believes in inclusion, whether it's gender race, different experiences, different a different thoughts, different perspective because that's what truly in terms of you can bring in the culture that drives that innovation. I've been sponsoring our women in science and engineering, for I can't remember the last for five years. It's a community that continues to grow, and and the reality is we don't sit in there and talk about, you know, what was me and all the things they're happening. What we talk about is, What are the cool new technologies that are out there? How do I get my hands on him? And yeah, there we talk about some things where women are little reticent and shy to do so. What we learn from other people's experiences, many time the guy's air very interested. So what? You sit them there and talking to said, Trust me, it's not like a whining and moaning section. It's more in terms of where we learned from each other >> years talking and sharing ideas, >> absolute >> innovation and building things. >> And we've got, you know, you look we look around that's a great set of women leaders throughout the company. At every single level at every function. It's ah, it's It's great to be there. We continue to sponsor Grace offer. We have some of the biggest presence at Grace Offer. We do so many other things like connected women within the company. It's just a I would say fabulous place to be. >> You guys do a lot of great things for society. Great company, great leadership. Thank you for doing all that's phenomenal. We love covering it, too. So we'll be affect cloud now today in Silicon Valley. Women in data science at Stanford and among them the >> greatest passion of our things. Straight here. >> Thanks for coming on this. The Cube live coverage here in Barcelona. Francisco Live twenty eighteen back with more. After the short break, I'm jump area with evil Aunt. Be right back

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, It's The Cube. Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome to The Cube, here in Orlando, Florida for our live coverage of Cisco Live 2018, North America. This is the big show, we were at Cisco Live in Europe recently, now this is the big show that Cisco, they bring out all the heavy hitters, the CEO on stage, just had the keynote. I'm here for the next 3 days with Stu Miniman, my co-host on The Cube, as usual, but also, you know, we keep on analysts as well as, among other things. Stu, great to see you, great to be in Orlando in the summer. It's kinda hot and sticky outside, but cool in here. Cisco, with the massive show here, huge in size, our first Cisco Live. >> Yeah, well John, last time you and I traveled for an event together, it was Cisco Live Barcelona, so you know, yes, first time I've been to a Cisco Live US since 2009, which was before The Cube, before I joined the team here. It's massive, John, I mean the amount of people here. The Orlando convention center, not exactly my favorite, just 'cause it's sprawling, but you need a facility of this size, and it's even overflowing, to get somewhere between 25 and 30,000 people here, you know, there's so much that we're gonna dig into in the next few days. >> So, let's just run down the keynote from the CEO, from Cisco, laid out an impressive set of content. One, the light show to kick it off, I'd probably say it was one of the best I've seen. The music was perfectly timed with the light show. It got a lot of props from the crowd, but really laid out the future of Cisco by looking back at the past, and all the accomplishments that Cisco has had, and the laid out the new network, and we'll cover that in depth, and then also a surprise guest partner on stage, Diane Greene, the CEO of Google Cloud. Clearly, Cisco talking multi-cloud, they talked about this new network where it protects everything, you know, use predictive, all kinds of technologies. How do you make cloud work without disrupting operations was the theme. Interestingly here, Diane Greene from Google Cloud kinda talked about, 'cause she's really kind of a CTO / CEO type, really talking about the tech feats, speeds and feeds, and then obviously Devnet content towards the end, where Devnet is the developer program, and Devnet created the cloud native, really growing in size. Over a half a million registered developers and growing, points to the success of the Devnet program that brings on-premise and cloud native together. Devnet proper, Devnet create was the cloud native. That's the big news, and other industry news today. Cohesity announced a 250 million dollar funding round, series D oversubscribed, Cisco investments, one of the investors, along with HPE as well, and Sequoia Capital, etc. etc., shows that the market is heating up for cloud scale, and I bring up Cohesity too because we're gonna have the CMO on tomorrow, but this kind of points to the whole theme of Chuck Robbins' keynote, and I want to get your analysis. Cloud scale, and the threats, on the security side has changed the game. Now we've covered the perimeters dead for years. This is now a call to action for all the engineers, and the CNEs, and all the people in the Cisco Engineering and customer community, like look at, the old way's over, the new way has to be established, it has to be scalable, it has to be cloud-supporting. What's your analysis? >> Yeah, so first I wanted to step back for a second, because my compare / contrast of the last time we were at Cisco Live in Barcelona, Rowan Trollope really talked a lot about the future. He said 2050's right around the corner. The future of Cisco is as a software company. Chuck Robbins on the other hand, looked actually backwards for a little bit. He said let's talk about what we have done for the last 10, 20 and 30 years together. Really calling out the community. What we've always talked about. You know, there's the army of CCIEs. Right past us here, they've got a timeline talking about 25 years of CCIEs, and the tens of thousands that are certified, that their whole careers, John, is about networking. And then, we kind of merged in a little bit, what do we talk about, you know, what is the new network, a term we've heard a bunch. The case that Cisco makes is that in this new world, you know, cloud, software, applications, they have an important piece to play, and we really think they do. Networking, obviously critically important. Security, top of mind, happening at the board level, and Cisco, they highlighted a lot of the acquisitions they've made, talked about kind of this new army. You pointed out rightly, the developer area, which we're here in the Devnet zone, is really the hot topic. Over 500,000 developers registered on the platform that they have here. That's big news. We've looked at so many of the big companies, oh, you know, developers, developers, developers, it's a hot topic, it's something they wanna do, but they don't have a lot of success in bringing them onboard. Susie Wee and the Devnet team's doing a really good job moving that forward, happen, you know, a really ground-swell of activity to get people involved, you know, happening all behind us here. >> And you know, Cisco obviously, Chuck Robbins also pointed out that they've been looking, doing a lot of work over the past 12 months, trying to be modernized, getting this new way established. A lot of press, a lot of analysts like to throw darts at these big enterprise companies that are transforming. We've seen some critical analysis on Cisco. We've seen critical analysis on VMware in the past. If you go back five years, and you look at, say VMware, and say Cisco, you know, these guys are out of touch. This is some of the pundits were saying things like that. If you look at what Cisco's doing, this is now my opinion, I wanna get your reaction to, is that Cisco has essentially pulled off a VMware-like move, and that is that VMware has successfully looked at their core competence and said, you know what, we don't want to do vCloud Air, we understand out customers, they're operations guys, they're going to the cloud, they kind of shut that down, and re-pivot the vCloud Air, do the deal with Amazon Web Services, they'll probably do other deals with Azure and other clouds. VMware's earnings are booming. Their software-defined data center bet, paying off. So, those architectural things that don't look immediate, are reaping rewards for say, VMware. I see Cisco in the same boat. You're seeing what they've done, they're trying to fix that collaboration piece, which you know, there's a little bad experiences, but the core business, the security threats, running networks, networks having policy, and with Kubernetes, and Istio, Diane Greene's point, that kind of brings a critical architectural component Stu, that really could propel Cisco. What's your reaction that? Do you think that's on, spot on? Do you think it's BS, what's your thoughts? >> So, John, VMware and Cisco, both failed at cloud. Let's put it out there. vCloud Air failed. VMware went through a couple of iterations, now their partnership with Amazon has reinvigorated them, and absolutely VMware also partnering, you know, big time with Google Cloud. Everybody that has an enterprise player is trying to, you know, partner with Google Cloud. Cisco has a long history of good partnerships. But, from a cloud standpoint, you know, we talked to them for a few years about, you know, the inter-cloud, they're doing this whole thing, it was muddy, people didn't understand it, and you know, it is dead. So, Cisco re-focusing on partnerships. Google, good one to start with, absolutely. You know, Diane Greene, I think salivating up on stage, seeing 25,000, you know, enterprise customers here that she wants to use her cloud. The quick poll of the audience said, oh you know, maybe about 20% of them were using Kubernetes. John, you were just at the Kubernetes show in Copenhagen, tends to still be the early adopters out there, it's not something that is, you know, everybody is doing it, but Istio, Kubernetes, you know, Cisco has a place there, they can ride that wave, partnerships, good to see them with Google, they absolutely are with AWS also, you and I did interviews with AppDynamics and some of the other Cisco folks at Reinvent in the past, and you know, Microsoft is one that's gonna play across all those environments too. >> Well, Stu, >> You know, lots of things to do in the cloud. >> Let's unpack that, because let's kind of extract a signal there, because what the issue is, is that the Cisco ecosystem lags early adopters, because they're too busy running networks, and anyone who runs networks, knows this is mission critical stuff. Operations for, again the security threats are there, but if you look at moving up the stack, which always been Cisco's goal. How do they, how can we move up the stack? I mean, there's been an internal, generational shift, that's always been inside Cisco. When to move up the stack, how to move up the stack. I see clear visibility with Istio and Kubernetes, and Istio and containers, as the Cisco guys to bring all the goodness of networking, policy, you know quality of service, these kinds of things, security, up to the app layer with Kubernetes. I think that that's lagging, mainly because the early adopters gonna set the table, but a natural progression for Cisco customers to move there, now, Google Cloud is interesting right, because Diane Greene, talking about containers and Kubernetes, they have Istio, that's their project, and there's also, you know, CUBE flow, amongst other things, but if you look at Amazon, they have a Kubernetes engine, just started shipping, that was announced I think last week, or the week before. Diane Greene's main pitch to the audience was this: you gotta go to the cloud without disrupting your operations, but yet being disruptive with new technologies. Her premise is, she says "Keep doing what you're doing "while introducing new mind-blowing things." I think, and I love that little slang, it's kind of a silicon valley vibe to it, mind-blowing things means, machine learning, AI, things that Cisco wants to introduce as services. Okay, to the cloud, to help Cisco customers move to the next level. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, John, I think you're absolutely right. Cisco, you know, really moving beyond just the network, absolutely, they're going up the stack. What I would say is, when we dealt with virtualization, John, it took us almost about 10 years to fix storage and networking, and storage got fixed a little bit before networking. This whole container and cloud native space, networking is up there, solving the issues a little bit faster than it did back in the VM days. Diane, you know really understands this piece too, and Cisco, in many ways, felt that they stumbled a little bit. They could have bought VMware back in the day, and they didn't, of course EMC picked that one up. So, when containers came around, Cisco knew that there was a new wave coming, they're ready, they're going after it, and they're trying to position themselves, to you know, be strategic in that next era. >> You to talked a lot of practitioners, so I just want to get your thoughts and reactions to you know, how Cisco's positioned vis a vis a big trend coming that we talked about in Barcelona at Cisco Live in Europe, which was this concept of network operations, what Devops did for cloud by making an abstraction layer, by making infrastructure as code, make the cloud work. You're seeing network as code, where with Istio and containers kind of as a North star, you're seeing that path, you're seeing Cisco well positioned, but again, Cisco customers are dealing with a lot of things. Some stats from the keynote, I'll just say a few. 50% of all traffic is encrypted. 70% of all bad actor traffic is encrypted. So, 30% is unencrypted, still tons. 20 billion threats are being blocked a day. That's 228 threats per second over the network. Massive scale. So, Cisco, it's not like they're sitting around, twiddling their thumbs saying, hey, let's be cloud native, I mean they got real issues, they're running networks, they're trying to create a re-invention of the network. So, you've got the software-defined data center, you got the notion of security, this kind of scale. How is Cisco positioned vis a vis some of those dynamics, with the path towards some of that goodness around Kubernetes, containers, and service meshes like Istio? >> Yeah, and John, that's one of the things. Some re-training of the workforce, because network is really about operators for the most part. They architect things, they operate things, but how many of them are really the developers? Well, 500,000 are registered and on this platform, you know, how many of them are moving to them, that new environment, and how many are new people entering the workforce. So, we are seeing a major transition. Major workforce transition here. Cisco is addressing it, you know, I love when, I'm sure you saw, when you walk in past registration, there's this giant bookstore, and this is still the type of audience that, you know, they're super excited to get all of these books, they're gonna train, they're gonna learn. I saw lots of people talking about coming to the show, as to what they're gonna get certified on, they like to meet the authors, they like to get involved, and that's something that this community's been really good at, sharing of information, learning information, and if they do that, they should be ready to be able to take advantage of some of these new trends. >> The other thing that I want to get your thoughts on, is Chuck Robbins, the CEO of Cisco, kind of said the old way, which is essentially network architecture as we know it, with the perimeter and whatnot, firewalls, is essentially dead. He didn't say that, I'm saying that, but implying from him saying, this is how we did it in the old way, and here's the new way, here's the modern era, here's what networks should look like, and obviously they have a lot of stuff on their product, portfolio as well as their roadmap to address that, okay, check. So let's talk about the role of the Cisco network engineer, the customer. In the old way, Stu, the network guys ran the show. They were the top talent. They had to lock down, do a lot of branch office, run all the major packets through the networks. This was critical path, this was, they were the aces. They were the creme de la creme. So now, in the face of that kinda going away, you have automation. Certainly, their jobs aren't gonna go away, because like you said, I mean, there's a lot to do in the cloud. How do network engineers, in your opinion, I know you talked to a lot of practitioners, become that, stay as that tier one resource, as Devops now is mainstream, as programmable networks become more of the norm with the Devnet, Devnet Create, with the multi-cloud, what does that network engineer become? What's their persona in the future, re-inventing the network, what's your view on that? >> Yeah, by the way, I loved when Chuck Robbins put up and he said here's the old ways, like, well really for most people, this is kinda the way of today, and this transition is going to be a little bit painful, John. You know, how do we get to this new environment? How do we keep moving forward? You know, absolutely, John, you know, the traditional firewall, you know, we can no longer build the moat. Security needs to be everyone's job. A great line I love that I've seen in the last year, is security is not a product, it is a practice, because it needs to be something that happens, you know, from the application side, all the way down to the people that are doing the hardware. So, I've talked to a number of customers, John. I was at a great little regional event in Boston last week, and the CIO said, you know, two years ago, I reported to the CFO, now I report to the CEO, because the role in companies that are doing it right, you know, lots of ways you can organize things, but the IT is not a cost center, we know that it needs to be tightly tied to the business, and if it's not working on things that drive the business forward, allow us to leverage data, allow us to take advantage of some of these new things, you know, agility, all of these things. I'm just gonna, you know, get rid of IT, and go find some way to be able to get it from somewhere else. >> Well, this is a dialog we want to keep going on, so you can follow us on Twitter, we're gonna continue to talk about what is that role of that network engineer in the new world, so they become tier one. Diane Greene had a great quote, and she said when pressed by the CEO of Cisco, to kind of summarize kind of Kubernetes, all the stuff, what is means for the audience, she said "Huge productivity gains and the best way to run "applications in a very consistent scalable way." So, you could say in the old days, network guys moved packets around, said I'm done, everything's secure, I'm gonna go to lunch, I got my beeper, now my cell phone. Now it's not moving packets, it's moving applications. So, you're seeing the movement up the stack is happening now, that's my kind of sense. Do you agree? Is that something that you see as where this is going? >> John, absolutely, you know networking doesn't go away, it becomes even more important. You know, I go back, John, even think about the XSPs back in the 90s, the reason that many of those models failed, it was like, oh a network ends in security, some of the biggest challenges we have in mobility and cloud, it's network and security, so does Cisco and all of these network engineers, they're gonna have jobs, they might be going to some new places, they absolutely need to learn some new skills, but networking security, you know, front and center for many of the ecosystems that we look at, and a good reason why we're here. >> And the other thing, I think Cisco's got another feather in their cap potentially with the new model is, the role of what security plays in the architecture. Certainly it's a practiced feature of everything, but if you look at the opportunities at the network layer, and at the firmware layer, at the chip layer, we're gonna be at Google Next this summer for The Cube live broadcast there. You know, I'm expecting to see security getting pushed down way in the stack, becoming native in the flow, and using that with policy, with Kubernetes, it's gonna be interesting. Security's still an open book, certainly an opportunity for Cisco. >> It's an opportunity for everyone right now, John, we still haven't solved that one. >> Okay, this is The Cube coverage here in Orlando, Florida for Cisco Live 2018. We got three days of exclusive, wall to wall coverage. Got some great interviews, we're gonna hear from the CMO for Cohesity tomorrow on the heels of their huge news that's gonna put a whole new level of scale and storage and you know, converge infrastructure devices together, and how that all plays. Of course we got a great line up from developers, Devnet folks, Susie Wee, and a bunch of top executives with Cisco and their customers here in The Cube. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more with live coverage. Stay with us, here in Orlando, Florida, after this short break. (electronic music)