live from Las Vegas it's the queue covering del technology's world 2019 brought to you by Dell technologies and it's ecosystem partners okay welcome back everyone we live in Las Vegas with a cube tech cue coverage of Dell technology world I'm Jean for @d Volante we're here in Cuba Lumley MERIS house who's the president and chief commercial officer Dell technologies great to see you again always great to be here sir so the the movie just gets better and sequels and Dell 3 into the year 3 of the acquisition I love look I love the script and we're gonna keep going you guys are access to the Game of Thrones it's not going to end it's gonna one of the themes I want to get your thoughts on first of all welcome back to look you good to see you what's going on right now give us an update Mars you've you've seen the chessboard of MMA of big firms on the private equity side you worked at HP during those days you came to Dell with Michael early on partnering on the going private and then looking at the overall plan which is now in full execution mode at the integration part of integrating it all together it's working really good mill the fairway revenues at ninety plus billion where are we right now well I'll tell you I think you and I were just discussing it a second ago scale does matter but if you can align scale with ax in your portfolio that it's so well aligned to the trends in the industry and you're representing an opportunity for a customer to select a partner like Dell technologies to help them solve their key business channel and just not just for today we're into the future and then if you can do at scale right portfolio at the velocity we're doing it's a trifecta that we love it's a that you know I recently talked to Tom Tom sweet we grew the business eleven billion dollars on an already big number just last year alone so and we're gaining sharing all of our key lines of business so the Folies aligning really well customers have been extraordinary and obviously building those big trusted relationships not just now to the but into the future that's you guys ready and you guys got a great team the ability to attract the talent has been phenomenal give you guys props on that but I keep coming back to we had a few years ago which is okay the big waves coming everyone kind of got cloud they saw the scale of Amazon great gel sign that continues to do great for AWS now it's multi cloud now IT the original consolidation of IT that you guys were going after had good growth and value creation just out of the box and now the tail winds as you mentioned so I got to ask you about this end to end this is a land grab this end to end operational consistency thing because it's a very unique it's hard to copy it's in the middle if you can continue to pull that off that's going to be a great opportunity that's gonna feed up up the stack if you will talk about the challenges and why you guys are going this end to end and the benefits the customers there's there is no doubt that the customers are getting smarter every day in understanding what workloads what applications what data sets ought to reside in which ecosystems to better serve them and to better align to their overall economic needs and desires that they want and their flexibility and agility to be able to move those workloads in that data seamlessly to best address their particular needs the beauty of what we've been able to do is integrate the VMware architecture into the public cloud ecosystems and we've got many others that are ready knocking on the door to the beat want to be part of it so now what a customer can have is that true agility that true flexibility of moving applications and data seamlessly but all control through one mechanism because at the end of the day what's going to happen is they're gonna have their day to resign on multiple different sources but they want to be able to see it they want to be able to accident they want to be able to analyze it and once you're able to analyze it regardless of where it resides and then draw the conclusions from it that's what's enables them to then create a predictive model that almost a cost to zero so on day one of the keynotes Michael said he showed the be of a video he said if you're you know bank with two trillion and assets or your two-story farmhouse we care about you know that's kind of music to your ears you obviously you're a big part of that what's different about the commercial customers and and what's going on in that base in terms of their transformation their trends and how is that different from I mean in commercial customers Lisa my and my patch I've got the biggest of the public-sector account so I've got them of all different sizes and shapes and different stages of the journey and that's what we're finding everywhere even if you're a big account small account medium account everyone is on there's digital transformation journey and there's an intersection that we can play a very big part of in and then enabling them to create a playbook as to how do I go through this journey effectively but what we're finding is when we took the overall architecture kind of or indeed tenants if you will around making sure that we have a scale out architecture model it doesn't able to have our customers adopt things and then be able to scale it out as their economic or as their business grows as an example so you can jump into having leading-edge capabilities and technology to help you drive your your company today but know that we're there with you all the way to then scale at whatever rate you want to scale at Mars I got to ask you we had Tom sweet on as you just mentioned CFO he talked about the multiple levers to create multiple levers you guys are pulling to create shareholder value which is ultimately comes from free cash flow which is happy customers great to pay down the debt that's his job margin expansion get good product development increase go to market efficiencies okay and then so philosophy supply chain go to market efficiencies this is your wheelhouse as you guys go talk to the customers and go to the market now with the sets of partnerships one of the changes that we're seeing is in IT it shifted the conversation shifted from not just cost reduction but revenue generating so with these new tailwind is creating a business model opportunity for your customers this is not the old school best in breed got great storage low cost I I've you know low cost per storage gigabyte this is about I don't want to deal with infrastructure anymore you guys handle that this is what you're going after how are you guys going to market under the new reality that customers are critical do you agree with that and how are you going to market with this new shift in the customers mindset Mike the mindset is now that change or dying if I don't drive the digital transformation within my company someone else will do it and more than likely will be a competitor so you see it having on the the uber front air B&B front you can go down the list every single one of these industries are figuring out I better Drive this aggressively and make sure that I take advantage of what's happening in the technology landscape in order to progress and grow my business to be more relevant and more differentiated so instead of IT being a let me lower my cost structure model IT is now the enabler of changing the business model the enabler of a scaling at a much faster rate to take advantage of the options and how does that change the customer selection on vendor supplier because obviously this is obviously gonna probably good for saying you know one supplier gel but that's gonna change how they evaluate procure consume and they're partnering how is that going to change their selection they they want to move more and more towards having the conversation around what do we need to do to scale our business and again create a differentiated advantage right well last thing they want to be is a systems integrator of all the different IT suppliers so when you have a partner like Dell technologies that truly does have the broadest and and and what I'd say best capabilities on the planet to then become that partner of choice for them to move them in this direction faster that's a very simple decision for them to make and how is that dynamic translating into public sector where you know there's a lot of turnover in terms of administration's you might have edicts in terms of you know multi vendor what are you seeing there but I think this is consistent we have a built a a practice what we call smart digital cities that we seeing the need everywhere at the end of the day regardless what public sector entity you go to what country you go to whatever mean it's about you go to every single one of them are thinking about how can I create more jobs how can I create build and grow the economic engine of my city my state my country and guess what they're leaning on technology to do that so everywhere we go it's a conversation about how can we drive efficiencies and productivity improvements across all the things you do and provide a greater level of service to every one of your it's constituencies through technology anything from securing the environment driving protecting our citizens to providing better health care services to providing better traffic management to providing better education and reach waste management you just go down the list every single city every single Enterprise a public sector entity around the globe is thinking about it and what's again the beautiful thing is we can come in we can bring in our overall partner ecosystem because it is a broader ecosystem that is needed in order to be able to deliver those end-to-end capabilities but very much on demand everywhere I gotta ask you about first of all is on the IT side those four public sector entities have a huge job ahead of them and they're not IT huge that staffs they need nimbleness and they need horsepower basically out of the gate and the beauty of what we are able to do is we share the best practices of what we see around the world you can imagine that a city of Dubai very progressive right clearly have the budget clearly have less restrictions on data privacy clearly have less restrictions on legacy integrations into past solutions so they can move pretty quickly with a pretty broad base view as to where they want to go so you take those ideas take those best practices and then you you showcase that to the rest of the world it's - ok what can we use what can they use - to move their agenda forward quickly I want to switch gears talk about competition I saw the Tom sweets presentation the analyst briefing around competition I didn't see any cloud vendors on their office T going multi cloud with your own cloud I see that but just in the traditional IT space the numbers are great in your and you got bigger bigger is better so HPE when smaller they thought that focus would be better for them maybe it is but now you have existing competitors from the classic IT market it's a new new ground you're going after you got Alienware here it's a gaming world you're partnering with it's a beautiful set up so that's the future of TCS so you're in all these markets what's the competitive view how did you talk about your companies for competitive strategy - what we first talked about if you if you've got scale and you have a broad broad portfolio they can address the the core trends that are emerging for the next decade or two and you can do it at speed I'd say a very nice formula and that's what we're starting to really operate at that kind of cadence with the the the strategically aligned businesses like VM were like like pivotal like secure works that are all coming together very nicely to be able to drive these transformations collectively as one portfolio where's the partner coopertition kind of thing going on because you think Cisco for instance you know you guys partner with Cisco in some level but also at the same time NSX on the VMware family side looking like us competing directly with Cisco so this is this you're going to have direct competition and then other ones that are coopertition where you're working as a partner or maybe and it's evolving so how do you guys bet to have those balance conversations it's it's been like that for decades right and there's you you've got big players in the market at the end of the day as long as you service your customer and deliver to them what they want and how they want it at the end of the day we need to collaborate to make that happen - same exact reason why we announced our partnership with Microsoft and Azure earlier this week customer draw was there they said we want you to be that single that single broker that enables me to move my my data in my application seamlessly and securely containerized to any public cloud well guess what Azure needs to be part of that equation so when the customer drives it and it's clearly aligned to their particular needs the the IT ecosystem comes together the best serve that when you have when you meet with the top customers and the top senior people what's the pitch Mario's when you go in and say hey you know here's get we're just gel technology we've got all the puzzle pieces they'll be be successful what's your pitch when you go in what's the mean message that you guys say to those customers I like for the last couple of years we've been talking about that the transformations that are happening right at the highest level it's just a digital transformation journey that people are on the work force transformation they're doing the overall IT transformation that enables that then of course how do you the whole environment on top of that they're having the conversation about okay let's go build the blueprint as to what that looks like for me as a customer and then show me how I'm gonna you're gonna deliver to me the platforms that enables me to grow and make sure that I'm making the right batch long term right I don't want a solution that's just there for today I want to make sure that I've got a solution that good that that will take me into the future and that makes me ultra competitive so when you think about it if I wanted a an app development platform that clearly needs to be cloud native in mind I need to have agile development capabilities and I need to be able the time to value needs to continue to shrink well guess what we got that with pivotal right you want to be able to now do your data management ecosystem seamlessly and and across multiple platforms clearly we have assets like Bumi that enable that to happen very very well and and then you want to virtualize your overall infrastructure layer as much as possible so you truly can scale up or scale down any of your infrastructure capabilities in order to meet the needs of that particular workload seamlessly when you have the data platform when you have the app platform when you have the virtualization platform and you have all of the infrastructure platform so well aligned to the overall trends and transformations our customers are doing it's almost a no-brainer I mean it is an IQ test that all of our customers are clearly passing and okay and what you just laid out it's probably like a ten year he's gonna play out over the next ten years and there's still a lot of invention to be required if you guys aren't doing a lot of M&A right now you know paying down the debt tom was clear on that but as an M&A person I want if we can pick your brain and I'm more familiar with the tech M&A it's where myspace but most M&A much of it anyway fails and and from your perspective why is that and why are some successful why or some not I think it is the how do you how do you when you add a new entity into the broader entity what are the synergies that you're aligning to to make sure that that new entity has the opportunity scale and grow right and that's why you have meant you have sometimes smaller deals are interesting from an IP perspective but if you don't tie it back into how are you gonna go scale to go to market to make it available to your broader set of customer base you or it gets lost in the equation that's a problem and I think what we've done is a very good job making sure that we understand how each piece of the IP portfolio comes together and is aligned to our overall approach and how we how we how we help you have the conversation with the customer that we've been able to see what we call our cross synergies of all the acquisitions we've made significantly exceed any and all of our expectations and and that's important part to do ahead of time before you make the acquisition know not just how it fits into the IP stack but how it fits into your overall go to market stack and how it fits in your overall value proposition to the customer Marcus thanks for spending the time know you're really busy coming on the cube I got to ask you one final question of this showed here Dell technology world over three days what are the three top highlights that happened to you that give a tell sign of the next 10 years with Dell technology I mean we've always said that we do what we say so I think and I've had many of analyst tell us that my god you guys consistently have delivered what you said you would deliver so the early skepticism of hey this this is a big company there's multiple cultures not sure that operationally you will execute well guess what I think it's fair to say the teams are executing and then when you see the results of taking share in every line of business you see the results where the customer satisfaction is higher than it's ever been our partner satisfaction is higher than it's ever been our partner growth is higher is the fastest-growing route to market for us all of that is just a testament that we are operating on all cylinders but what's more exciting is the yet to come part and and the fortuity so big right the market is what three and a half trillion ninety billion is a fraction of that so this is what our our team members see it's what our customers see our partners see so that momentum it's just a tsunami that's just gonna keep on growing well the cube barometer certainly showing activity to sets when we get four you know you're doing well so we're gonna keep an eye on the pulse of the cube pan and we got here Mari it's great to see you always a pleasure great insight thanks for sharing John awesome grant appeared a virus awesome thank you so much Myers house president chief commercial officer Dell technologies Friends of the cube great executive tech athlete as we say live coverage day three here the cube coverage of Delta knows we will be right back with more after the short break [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas It's theCube covering Dell Technologies World 2018 brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCube's live coverage of the Inaugural Dell Technologies World 2018 here in Las Vegas. Getting to the end of three days of wall-to-wall live coverage from two sets I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my co-host John Troyer, and for those of you that haven't attended one of these shows, sometimes like "Oh, you're going to Vegas, this is some boondoggle," but I'm really happy, I've got a customer, one of the Dell EMC employees, here. A lot of stuff goes on. There's learning, there's lotsa meetings, there's, you know, you come here, you kind of, you know, get as much out of it as you can. So, first, Stephen Herzig, who's the Director of Enterprise Systems at the University of Arkansas, >> Correct, yes. >> Stu: You had a busy week so far. >> I have. >> Thank you for joining us >> You bet. >> Stu: Also, Andrew McDaniel, who's the Senior Director of Ready Solutions for VDI with Dell EMC, thank you for joining us-- >> Thanks guys >> Alright, so, Stephen, first of all, give us a little bit about your background and University of Arkansas, I think most people know the Razorbacks-- >> Stephen: That's right, the Razorbacks! >> Talk about your org and your role there. >> Yeah, I'm Director of Enterprise Systems, as you mentioned. We're an R1 University, we have about 27,000 students, about 5,000 faculty and staff in the university. And, so my organization is responsible for maintaining, as I said, all the enterprise systems, essentially everything in the data center on the floor to support all the educational activities. Now there is some distributed or commonly known as shadow IT organizations throughout the university and we work quite closely with them, too. >> Okay, you stamp out all that shadow IT stuff and pull it all back in, right? >> Stephen: (laughs) No, no! No, absolutely not. >> We'll get a, Andrew, before we get into more about the university, tell us a little bit about your role and your org, inside Dell EMC. >> So my organization basically develops the end-to-end VDI solutions that Dell EMC sell globally. So, we work with partners such as VMware and Citrix, to put together the industry leading solutions for VDI. Tested, validated, engineered, to give real good confidence in the solution the customer's going to buy. >> Okay, John and I spent many years looking at these, you know, memes in the industry, all that, you know, but uh, Stephen, before we get into the VDI piece, give us, what are some of the challenges that you're facing in the University? We've had, you know, from an IT standpoint, we know the technology requirements are more than ever. While tuitions go up, budgets are always a challenge. So, when you're talking to your peers, what are the things you're all commiserating about or, you know, working at. >> Yeah, like any IT organization, it's a challenge to do more with less. We're constantly being required to support more systems, more technology, and technology is becoming more and more an integral part of the educational process. We also have students coming from very diverse backgrounds, and so the kinds of computing devices that they're able to bring to the university with them, some can afford high-end, some not, and so, it's a challenge for us to deliver that, the applications to them, no matter what kind of device they happen to bring. >> Alright, so, sounds like VDI is something that fits there-- >> Yes >> Before we get into the actual solution, tell us, what was the struggle you were facing, what led to that, what was there, was there a mandate? How did you get to the solution that you were-- >> Well, really, we were struggling with those challenges We're a very small IT team, and as those things grew, we knew we had to find a way to reduce the number of resources that we're supporting, all the end points, all the machines in the labs, all the machines on faculty and staff desks, and again, like I said, the students bring their own devices, which we had to support as well. >> Alright, so, you ended up choosing a Dell Solution, maybe give us a little bit about that, that process and walk us through the project some. >> Yeah, we really needed a solution. We could not go out and assemble pieces, parts, from a lot of different vendors, and we needed a solution that was tailored to our needs, that fit, VDI is complex by its nature, but some vendors made it really complex. So, we had to find one that was right for our environment, for what we were trying to achieve, and of course, at the right price point. Higher education, we're not flush with cash. >> That's always been really hard, I think that's been the hard thing about VDI, right? It's always been kind of complicated and hard to do, at least back in the day, and then when you did it, half the things didn't work, and the things that didn't work were really weird, and the user was very confused. "This application works, but this one doesn't." And, "where's my cursor?" and "Everything went wonky all of a sudden and I can't login at 9am." I mean, I'm kind of curious, what is necessary maybe, from eye-level in a modern VDI solution stack, that makes it easy? You know, is it the hypervisor, the end clients? >> I think, John, you know we've seen such great advances in the software side of it, right? So, if you look at Horizon, as a broker, VMware Horizon, the advances that they've made in things like protocols, right, so Blast Extreme, for example, one of the big challenges that we've always had, is things like Link or Skype, in a VDI environment. It was, it made a disaster for many customers, right? So, that has been solved by VMware and the advances that they did, above and beyond what was capable in PC over IP. So, that's one of the things. From a hardware perspective, you know, one of the challenges we frequently had in VDI, was poor user experience, right? And it was typically because the graphics requirement for the application could not be delivered by the CPU alone, right, so GPUs, Nvidia, K1, K2's, then it went to the M10, M60's, and moving forward into the P4 and P40's, they've really helped us to improve that user experience, and it's starting to get to a point where GPUs are a standard delivery within any VDI employment. So, you get really good experience moving forward. And as you know, if you can't deliver a good user experience, the project is dead before it even starts. Alright, so that's a big challenge. >> Stephen, do you have any commentary on some of the challenges that we faced before? What was your experience like? >> Yeah, it, that's exactly right. We made the decision early on to include GPU in every session that we served up. And we weren't quite sure, 'cause it is an additional expense, but it was one of the best decisions that we've made. It really does make all the difference. >> Was there something specific from the application or user-base, and how they were using it, that led you to that? >> Well, we are all Windows 10, and Windows 10 just looks better, it runs better, the video, scrolling through a Word document, the text, some are very nuanced, but it makes a big difference in the user experience. And of course, we have higher-end users using CAD programs, things like that, you know, in the School of Engineering, they needed the GPU for what they were doing. >> Andrew, wondering if you could give us, little bit of an update on the stack, So, I think back to, on the EMC side, I watched everything from the Flash on the converge side. On the Dell side, there was the Wyse acquisition of course, EMC and VM were coming together, so, a long journey, but even the first year we did theCube, you know, Dell had some big customers doing large scale, cost-effective VDI, because, had that, you know, to give some of the marketing terms I've heard here, it's end to end, but you add the devices all the way through. So, bring us up to 2018. >> Yeah, so, I guess, you know, one of the challenges that Stephen spoke about is the, previously, the hassle of having to go and buy each of the individual components from multiple different vendors. So, you're buying your storage from one vendor, compute from another, GPUs from another, hypervisor from another, broker from another, and so on. So, it gets very complicated to manage all of that. And so, we had lots of customers who had run into scenarios where, say a BIAS firmware and a driver revision were not compatible, and so we'd run into those kinds of problems that we were talking about earlier on, right? So, I think, you know, bringing all of that together, in Dell Technologies, we can now deliver every single aspect of what you need for a VDI deployment. So, we created a bundle called VDI Complete. It uses vSAN ReadyNodes or VxRail, right? So, hyper-converged, massive from a VDI perspective, and I'll come back to that in a second. It pairs then, Horizon Advanced or Horizon Enterprise, with those base platforms, and the Dell Wyse Thin clients. So, every aspect, true end to end, is delivered by Dell Technologies, and there's simply no other vendor in the market who can do that. So, what that basically does is it gives the customer confidence that everything that has been tested can be owned, from a support perspective, by Dell Technologies. Alright, so, if you've got a problem, we're not going to hand you off to another company to go solve that issue, or lay blame with somebody else. It's fully our stack, and as a result, we take full responsibility for it. And that's one of the benefits that we have with customers like University of Arkansas. >> And that was important to us. That single point of contact for support was really important to us. >> Stephen, I wonder if you could talk about, from an operational standpoint, you said, you've got a small team. One of the challenges, at least years ago, was like "Oh, wait! I have the guy that walked around "and did the desktops, now I centralized it, "who owns it, you know, how do we sort through this? "You know, we've got a full stack there. "Simplicity's one of the big messages of HCI," but what was the reality for your team and the roles, how did you change? >> Well one of the first areas, or actually, the first area that we implemented VDI in was in the labs. Hundreds of end points across the campus. And, before VDI, you would walk into the lab, and a certain percentage of the machines would always be down. They needed updating, there was a virus, somebody spilled a coffee on the machine, you know, that kind of thing. After VDI, when you walked into the lab, 100% of the end points were always up, and there was no noise in the lab, except when somebody printed. So, the maintenance required, the resources for my team, and these distributed IT teams was reduced drastically. As a matter of fact, some of the distributed teams had 50% of their resources reduced. That could then go and do more high-value projects and deliver high-value services to their colleges. >> From the student and faculty perspective, it sounds like the uptake has been good, and the satisfaction level high. I mean, user experience is everything with VDI, right? >> Yeah, absolutely, the students came, we installed during spring break, and they came back from spring break, went into the labs with these beautiful new 27-inch monitors, sat down, logged on, and it looked almost the same as before. Which was exactly what we were after. We wanted that same high-quality experience in VDI that they had with a laptop or a desktop. >> The monitors are an important thing to consider, right, 'cause a lot of customers will think about the data center side of VDI, right, so, get lots of compute, good, high-performing storage, good network, and then they put a really poorly designed thin client or an old desktop PC, or something like that, on the end, and wonder why they're not getting good performance, right? So, we just launched yesterday the Dell Wyse 5070. It's the first thin client in the market that can have six monitors attached to it, four of those can be 4K, and two 2K, right? So, it's immense from a display perspective, and this is what our customers are demanding. Especially in financial services, for example, or in automotive design, you know, in CAD labs, for example, you need three or four really good, high-quality screens attached. >> Well, I'm saying, I'll date myself, I wish I had that when I was playing Doom when I was in college in the labs. >> That too! >> That does bring into question, your upgrade and scenarios, moving on to the future, right? You used to have all those janky old PC's that you'd kind of, maybe they'd slide out the back door, maybe they'd get recycled, or whatever, but now it's a different refreshed cycle, and maybe even different use cases. >> Yeah, the lifespan of the endpoints is much longer with the VDI solution. >> John: It's got to be good, yeah. I was curious, you mentioned the converged infrastructure, too, Andrew. I mean, how does that play into it? (muffled) >> Yeah, so I mean, you know, traditionally, a SAN infrastructure was used in VDI, alright? So, for us, that would have been Equallogic Compellent, historically. Now, we're seeing that VDI market almost totally transition to hyperconverged. Alright, so vSAN has really revolutionized VDI, okay? I'd say, you know, a good 30, 35% of all VxRail and vSan deployments that we do, are in the VDI space. So, it's really, and I would say about 90, 95% of our VDI deployments are on hyperconverged rather than a traditional SAN infrastructure. That's really where VDI has moved now. 'Cause it gives customers the ability to scale on demand. Instead of having to go and buy another half-million dollar storage rate, add another thousand users, you can simply add in a couple of more compute nodes with the storage built in. For us, hybrid works very well. So, a hybrid-disc configuration is working very well in most VDI deployments. Some customers require all flash, it depends on the applications and the other kind of performance that they want to get from it. But for a majority of customers, hyperconverged with the hybrid configuration works brilliantly. >> So, Stephen, I want to give you the final word. Sounds like everything went really well, but one of the things we always like to understand, when you're talking with your peers, they said "Hey, what did you learn? "What would you do a little different, "either internally, or configuration-wise, or roll-out," What would you tell your peers? >> Well, when we implemented VDI it was just before VDI Complete came out. So, the work that's done in the VDI Complete solution, we didn't have. So, as we look to the future, and we want to expand, and grow our environment, VDI Complete will be a huge help. Had we had that, it only took us about four months to stand it up, which, considering what we accomplished, was very short time, but, if we had had VDI Complete, that time would've been much more compressed. So, looking to the future, we're looking to expand using VDI Complete. >> Just to, Andrew, maybe you can tie the knot on this bow for us, is sounds like this could, if I've got VDI, I don't have to start brand new, it can fit with existing environments, how does that all work? >> Absolutely, I mean we've got lots of customers who've already done Citrix or VMware deployments, right? Ideally, you want to connect with one broker. So you want to stick with one broker. But, we can bring in a hyperconverged VDI solution into your existing user estate, and merge into that. So, that's pretty common. >> Alright, well, Andrew and Stephen, thank you so much for sharing the story. Really great to always get the customer stories. We're getting towards the end of three days of live coverage here at the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas, at Dell Technologies World 2018. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCube. (techno music)

(electronic music) >> Announcer: From Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2018, here in Boston. Happy to welcome back to the program, Chen Goldberg, who's the Engineering Director at Google. Chen, thanks for joining me. >> Thank you, it's always a pleasure. >> So Chen, what are the big questions coming in? We talked to you at the KubeCon Show before. You know, Kubernetes, you know, Cloud Foundry, containers, serverless, all these things mashing up. You've been here at the show for about a day, what have you learned so far? How do all these kind of fit together in your mind? >> So actually, it was great being here for the last day, 24 hours so far, and just seeing how Cloud Foundry Community is really opening and welcoming influence from other communities in the cloud native space. And we see it in different ways. We see work that is being done on building some open standards, for example, and so working with the Cloud Foundry on things like OCI, the Open Container Initiative, and the CSI, which is the Container Storage Interface. But not only that, for example, we in Google have been working, last year, building Kubo, which then became the Cloud Foundry Container Runtime, and really bringing things together. And I think that's awesome because like any other technology, we need to know how we can take the best out of everything. And this is what really, user wants to know. They want to know that when they are making a decision or a choice of a technology, that technology can move with them forward. The last thing that we also see all of interest about the Open Service Broker and how you can really mesh things together with different platforms. >> Chen, I'm wondering if you can help us squint through this a little bit. And we've heard Google talking for a while about Open Cloud, and that means it doesn't beam all one source in the public cloud portability between clouds, public and private. Google's had many partnerships over the years with there. How do these pieces fit together in your mind? >> I think it all starts with what user wants. Okay, I always talk about the customer and what is their pain? And the pain, in reality is that they have a very complex environment, okay? They have on-prem. They want to use some of the cloud services. Sometimes they have some places, like we hear it from retail, they have some warehouses, that they don't have actually good connectivity, but they still want to serve, they still want to have the guild transformation. And, I think, that's the main thing that what we hear from users, that they want to have that flexibility over to run their business. Okay, because this is what they really have to do and they want to compete more effectively. So, think about that. The other piece which we hear about users is that they want to make sure like we talked about Cloud Foundry before. They want to make sure that the infrastructure they choose though, that the tools will allow them to evolve, and that can be in different ways. It can be about maybe having flexibility to choose different tools, but also not to be locked in to a specific vendor because that happened to them before, right? So, they want to make sure that they can continue and move forward because the technology we know today maybe, probably will change in the future. So, by having all of that together, that leads us to some of the pieces I've talked about in the keynote. And the first one is portability. We achieve it by open source. We believe in open source because it does bring the community together. We learn about users, partners. We have an amazing ecosystem. So that's one. The second piece is about its sensibility and this is where you can see how Cloud Foundry can actually integrate into Kubernetes. It's because of those extension points. We don't know where innovation will come from. What will be the next cool thing? And back in KubeCon, I talked about some serverless framework we see on top of Kubernetes. All of that is possible through those extensions. Open Service Broker is actually a combination of two. So Open Service Broker is an open standard. It allows you to consume services from different platforms. We saw, in the keynote, so Google is announcing, now in beta, the Google Managed Service Broker, supporting the Open Service Broker API. And you consume it out from any Kubernetes cluster that are using a catalog, service catalog. And it is available also through those extensions. So when we think about Open Hybrid Cloud, we think about that you can run it anywhere. And either you have interopabilities, so you can consume different tools and you can extend it and innovate on top of it. So that's our way of thinking. >> Yeah, I mean, we know the only thing that's constant in this industry today is change. >> Yes. >> One of the things we've been tracking is if I look at an application, it used to be I deploy an application, it takes me 12-18 months at least, and then, once I'm running it, gosh. Yeah, sure, were going to run it for three to five years but, no, no, actually, we're going to run it for 10-12 years. We're going to keep it longer. How does this kind of decomposability of applications and having things and more components? We talk about things like flexibility and speed but, you know, how do you hear from customers, really, from the application side of things? >> This is all about microservices? >> Yeah. >> Right? Just making sure that your application is architected in a way that allows you to change things. I think also that developers are now used to that cycle which is really fast. I'm talking about agility and how quickly you can deploy changes. You know, I keep talking with my engineering team, like don't get too attached (laughs) to anything because things do change and requirements change all the time, and if you're building your application right, you can do those changes. For example, again, going back to the Open Service Broker, you can use a service. First of all, maybe your own service, like your own SQL. But then you can use through a managed service like if you are running on G Key or having Cloud Foundry running on GCP, then you can use one of the managed services offered by Google. >> Okay, anything new you're hearing from users? What are some of their biggest challenges? What's exciting them these days? >> So it depends which user and also who you talk in that audience. Yeah, I think developers are still very excited about the opportunity and the different tools and open source and how quickly the technology is moving forward. When we talk with enterprise, they are very excited about consistency because it's hard. That complexity and managing all of it is really hard to train your operational teams and the developers on different tools. So they are very much concerned about that, their TCO. So they care about, of course, the cost of the infrastructure, but also the people. Right, we don't talk about how hard it is to train and change technology, technologies, all during a cultural change within an organization. So, they care about consistency and this is something that is really in the heart of the thing that we are building. So starting with Kubernetes, we talk about flexibility without compromising consistency. And you do it by building obstructions and letting everyone own a different piece. And there's always some excitement about Istio, in that sense, because what it allows you is to create an obstruction for managing services which is separated from the code that you build. So, let's say you want to, for example, deploy a new policy of access control to your services, you can do it through Istio, because you have proxies in front of all your services, regardless of what they run, by the way. You can have services on VMs, on Cloud Foundry, on a Google Kubernetes engine, or anything, anywhere else you actually would like to have them. And you have that consistent layer in front of all of them. You can do troubleshooting easier because you will have the same matrix and data and telometry on top of it. And so, moving into that direction, creating more obstructions that are creating less friction for the end-user, while still allowing just the platform to evolve, right? If you have this platform on top of it, you can still move services from running from one platform to another, but that person that is using the data, actually, their experience won't change. >> Alright, Chen, what should we be looking for from Google and Eureka's system for the rest of 2018? >> So, of course, we continue and invest a lot in Kubernetes and its ecosystem, and you can see it all the time. All the time, we are bringing more and more tools in open source, showing some of our best practices of how we manage development and production into the community. Some of it is in, like project, like developer experience project, like scaffold, and others that were announced in the last few months. So we will see more of those coming. And in some ways, it's also around the best practices. So, we have been delivering messages of how you should run your clusters or application more secured. And, of course, some of those offerings will be on GCP. But that's another area where we are heavily investing. We have a lot of experience and we are happy to share that. >> Well okay, last question I have for you, is the world becoming more Googly? Or is Google becoming more like the rest of the world? (Stu and Chen laugh) >> I want to say that the world becoming more Googly. (laughs) Being Googly means many things for people here in the, that maybe don't know what means. To me, being Googly is being nice and being kind, and also, being open to more ideas and that's what I would hope to see the world moving towards. But yes, but definitely Google, as part of it being Googly, is working, continuing to work with the community and get feedback, and that's great. >> Okay, well, Chen Goldberg, it's a pleasure to catch up with you again. We will have lots more Google content (Chen laughs) and Googly guests, not only here at the Cloud Foundry Summmit, we're going to be at KubeCon, Copenhagen, as well as KubeCon, Seattle, at the end of the year, and really excited to say that we will be at the Google Cloud Next Show >> Aww. >> this summer, so, look for lots more of theCUBE. >> Thank you, Chen, for joining me. >> That's exciting. >> I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Santa Clara in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. >> Hi this is Stu Miniman, joined with my cohost, John Troyer. Happy to welcome to the program a first-time guest, Chip Childers, who's the CTO of the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Chip, fresh off the keynote stage, >> Yep. >> how's everything going? >> It's going great. We're really happy with the turnout of the conference. We are really happy with the number of large enterprises that are here to share their story. The really active vendor ecosystem around the project. It's great. It's a wonderful event so far. >> Yeah, I was looking back, I think the last time I came to the Cloud Foundry Show, it was before the Foundation existed, We were in the Hilton in San Francisco, it was obviously a way smaller group. Tell us kind of the goals of the Foundation, doing the event, bringing the community in. >> Yeah, you can think about our goals as being of course, we're the stewards of the intellectual property, the actual software that the vendors distribute. We see our role in the ecosystem as being really two key things. One: we're focused on supporting the users, the customers, and the direct uses of the Open Source software. That's first and foremost. Second though, we want to make sure there is a really robust market ecosystem that is wrapped around this project, right. Both in terms of the distribution, the regional providers that offer Cloud Foundry based services, but also large system integrators that are helping those customers go through digital transformation. Re-platform applications, you know really figure out their way through this process. So, it's all about supporting the users and then supporting the market around it. >> Yeah, as we go to a lot of these events, you know, there are certain themes that emerge. There were two big ones that both of them showed up in what you did in the Keynote. Number one is Multicloud, number two is you got all of these various open sourced pieces, >> Chip: Yep. you know, what fits together, what interlocks together, you know which ones sit side by side. Why don't we start with kind of the open source piece first? Because you're heavily involved in a lot of those. Cloud Foundry, you know, what are the new pieces that are bolting on, or sitting on top, or digging into it, and what's going on there? >> You know, I think first I want to start with a basic philosophy of our upstream community. There are billions of dollars that rely on this platform today. And that continues to grow. Right, because we're showing up in Fortune 500, Global 2000, as well as lots of small start-ups, that are using Cloud Foundry to get code shipped faster. So our community that builds the UpStream software, spends a lot of time being very thoughtful about their technical decisions. So what we release and that what gets productized by the down streams is a complete system. From operating system all the way up to including the various programming languages and frameworks and everything in between. And because we release a complete platform, at a really high velocity, so many people rely on it's quality, we're very thoughtful about when is the right time to build our own, when should we adopt and embrace and continue to support another OpenSource project, so we spend a lot of time really thinking about that. And the areas today that I highlight around specific collaborations include the Open Service Broker API which we actually spun out of being just a Club Foundry implementation. And we embrace other communities, and found a way to share the governance of that. So we move forward as a big industry together. >> Stu: Yeah and speaking on that a little bit more. Very interesting to see. I saw Red Hat for instance speaking with Open Shift, Kubernetes is there. So, how should customers think about this? Are the path wars over? Now you can choose all the pieces that you want? Or, it's probably oversimplifying it. >> I think it's over simplifying it, it depends. You can go try to build your own platform if you want, through a number of serious components, or you can just use something like Cloud Foundry, that has solve for that. But the important thing is that we have specifically designed Cloud Foundry to allow for the backing services to come from anywhere. And so, it's both a differentiator for the various distributions of Cloud Foundry, but also an opportunity for Cloud providers, and even more importantly, it's an opportunity for the enterprise users that live in complex worlds, right? They're going to have multiple platforms, they're going be multiple levels of abstraction from Bms to containers, you know, to the path abstraction even event driven frameworks. We want that all to work really well together. Regardless of the choices you make, because that's what's most valuable to the customers. >> Okay, the other piece, networking you talked about. Why don't you share. >> Yeah, yeah so, besides the Service Broker API, we've added support for what's called Container to Container Networking. I don't necessarily need to dig into the details there, but let's just say that when you're building microservices that the application that the user is experiencing is actually a combination of a lot of different applications. That all talk to each other and rely on each other. So we want to make sure there's a policy-based framework for describing how the webs here is going to talk to the authentication service or is going to talk to the booking service, or the inventory service. They all need to have rules about how they communicate with each other. And we want to do that in the most efficient way possible. So we've adopted the Containing Networking interface as the standard plugin that is now at CNCF, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. We think it's the right abstraction, we think it's great. It gives us access to all the fascinating work that is going on around software networking, overlay networking, industry standard API plugin to our policy-driven framework. >> Along the same theme, Kubo, a big new news project also kind of integration of some Cloud Foundry concepts with a broader ecosystem, in this case another CNCF project, Kubernetes. Could you speak a little bit to that? >> The Kubernetes community is doing a great job creating great container driven experience. You know that abstraction is all about the container. It's not about, you know, the code. So it's different than Cloud Foundry. There are workloads that make sense to run in one or the other. And we want to make sure that they run really well. Right, so the problem that we're solving with the Kuber project is what deploys Kubernetes? What supports Kubernetes if there is an infrastructure adage and a node goes offline? Right, because it does a great job of restarting containers, but if you have ten nodes in a cluster, and then now you're down to nine, that's a problem. So what Bosh does, is it takes care of solving the node outage level problem. You can also do rolling upgrades that are seamless, no downtime for the Kubernetes cluster. It brings a level of operational maturity to the Kubernetes users that they may not have had otherwise. >> Chip, can you bring us inside a little bit the creation of Kubo, is that something that the market and customers drove towards you? I talked to a couple other Cloud Foundry ecosystem members that were doing some other ways of integrating in Kubernetes. So what lead to this way of deploying it with Bosh? >> Yeah, absolutely so, it came out of a direct collaboration between Pivotal and Google. And it was driven based on Pivotal customer demand. It also, if you speak with people from Google that are involved in the project, they also see it as a need, for the Kubernetes ecosystem. So it's driven based on real-world large financial services companies that wanted to have the multiple abstractions available, they wanted to do it with a common operational platform that is proven mature that they've already adopted. And then as that collaboration board, the fruit of the project, and it was announced by Pivotal and Google several months back, they realized that they needed to move it to the vendor neutral locations so that we can continue to expand the community that can work on it, that can build up the story. >> The other topic I raised at the beginning of the interview, was the Multicloud. So in a panel, Microsoft, Google, MTC for Amazon was there. All of the Cloud guys are going to tell you we have the best platform and can do the best things for you. >> Of course they do. >> How do you balance the "We want to live in a multicultural Cloud world" and be able to go there versus "Oh I'm going to take standard plus and get in a little bit deeper to make sure that we're stickier with the customers there." What role does Cloud Foundry play? What have you seen in the marketplace for that? >> Well the public lab providers are, if you look at the services that they offer, you can roughly categorize them with two things. One, are the infrastructure building blocks. Two, are the higher level services, like their database capabilities, their analytics capabilities, log aggregation, you know, and they all have a portfolio that varies, some have specific things that are very similar. So when we talk about MultiCloud we talk about Cloud Foundry as a way to make use of those common capabilities, now they're going to differentiate based on speeds and feeds, availability, whatever they choose to, but you can then as a user have choice. And then secondarily, that Open Service Broker initiative is what's really about saying "great, there's also all these really valuable additional capabilities, that, as a user, I may choose to integrate with a Google machine learning-service, or I may choose to integrate with a wonderful Microsoft capability, or an Amazon capability." And we just want to make that easy for a developer to make that choice. >> Chip, Cloud Founder was very early in terms of a concept of a platform of services, let's not call it platform as a service right now. But you know, this platform that going to make developers lives easier, multi-target, MultiCloud we call it now, on from your laptop to anywhere. And it's been a really interesting discussion over the last couple years as this parallel container thread can come up with Kubernetes and Mesosphere and all the orchestration tools, and the focus has been on orchestration tools. And I've always thought Cloud Foundry was kind of way ahead of the game in saying "wait a minute, there's a set of services that you're going to have for full life-cycles, day two operation, at scale that you all are going to have to pull together from components." As we're doing this interview here, and this year at Cloud Foundry Summit are there anything that you think people don't kind of realize that over and over again people who are using Cloud Foundry go, "Wow I'm really glad "I had logging or identity management," or what are some of the frameworks that people sometimes don't realize is in there that actually is a huge time-savor. >> Yeah, there are a lot of operational capabilities in the Cloud Foundry platform. When you include both our Bosh layer, as well as the elastic runtime which is in the developer centers experience-- >> John: Anything that people don't often realize is in there? >> Well, I think that the right way to think of it is, it's all the things you need in one application, right? So we've been doing this for years as developers. In the applications operators team, we've been doing it. We've just been doing it via bunch of tickets, we've been doing it via bunch of scripts. What Cloud Foundry does is it takes all of those capabilities you need to really trust a platform to operate something on your behalf, and give you the right view into it, right? The appropriate telemetry, log aggregation, and know that there's going to be help monitoring there. It makes it really easy. Right, so we were talking earlier about the haiku, that Onsi Fakhouri from Pivotal had authored, it's appropriate. It's a promise that a platform makes. And platforms designed to let a user trust that the declarative nature of asking a platform to do X, Y, or Z, will be delivered. >> Chip, we've been hearing Pivotal talks a lot about Spring, when Cloud Foundry's involved. Is it so much so that the Foundation needs to be behind that, or support that? How does that interact and work? >> Well, we're super supportive of all the languages in the framework communities that are out there. You know, even if you pick a particular vendor, Pivotal in this case has a very strong investment in the Spring, Spring Cloud, Spring Boot, they're doing really amazing things. But that's also, it's our software, you know, they steward that community, so all the other vendors actually get the advantage of that. Let's take Dot Net and Microsoft. Microsoft open sourced Dot Net. So now you can run Dot Net applications on Linux. They're embrace of the container details and the APIs and their operating system is making it so that now it can also run on Windows. So the whole Microsoft technology stack, languages and frameworks, they matter quite a bit to the enterprise as well. So we see ourselves as supportive of all of these communities, right? Even ones like the Ruby community. When there's an enterprise developer that chooses to use something like Ruby, with the Ruby on Rails framework, if they use Cloud Foundry, they're getting the latest and greatest version of that language, framework, they know that it's secure, they know that it's going to be patched for them. So it's actually a great experience for that developer, that's working with the language. So, we like to support all of them, we're big fans of any that work really well with the platform and maybe integrate deeper. But it's a polyglot platform. >> We want to give you the final word. People take away from Cloud Foundry Summit 2017, what would you want them to take away? >> Yeah the simple takeaway that I can give you is that this is an absolutely enterprise grade open source ecosystem. And you don't hear that often, right? Because normally we talk about products, being enterprise great. >> Did somebody say in the keynote enterprise great mean that there's a huge salesforce that's going to try sell you stuff? (Chip laughs) Well that's coming from the buying side of the market for years. And you know, it was a bit of a joke. What is "enterprise great?" Well, it means that there's a piece of paper that says, this product will cost x dollars and the salesperson is offering it to you. So of course it's going to be enterprise great. But really, we see it as four key things, right? It's about security, it's about being well-integrated, it's about being able to scale to the needs of even the largest enterprises, and it's also about that great developer experience. So, Cloud Foundry is an ecosystem and all of our downstream distributions get the advantage of this really robust and mature technical community that is producing this software. >> Chip, really appreciate you sharing all the updates with us, and appreciate the foundation's support to bring theCUBE here. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from The Cloud Foundry Summit 2017, you're watching theCUBE. (techno music)