>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Bought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here at Vmworld 2019, San Francisco, California. We're in Moscone North Lobby. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Dave Vellante. Dave, 10 years of covering VMworld. This is our 10th year. Pat, you've been on every year since 2010. We have photos. >> That's sort of scary. >> You had a goatee back then. (Pat laughs) We've heard your rap going way back. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Oh man, scary. You guys probably got some dirt on me. Boy, I better be careful. >> John: Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of VMware on theCUBE. Thanks for coming on this evening. >> Oh, always a pleasure to be on with you guys, love it. >> Don't end up as driftwood. Security is a do over. We're going to talk about all that. >> We're going to spend the entire segment just talking about Pat Gelsinger's predictions. We'll recycle some of them, but let's get into the core news here, VMworld. You've done such an amazing job. We've given you a lot of props on theCUBE over the years, but still continuing, even in the market climate that's swinging up and down right now, VMware still producing great results. The team is executing. Their transition since October 2016 when you kind of made that move, cloud is it, clear vision, a lot's been falling into place. Pivotal has dropped on your lap, and you got the engineering stuff coming out on top of vSphere and a bunch of other things. Great stuff, I mean, you must be geeking out. >> Well, thank you. At the US gymnastics finals, Simone Biles did a triple double. First time ever in competition. And I think of our last week as a triple double, right, two major acquisitions, an earnings call, and now VMworld and all the announcements as part of it. It's like wow. >> John: You stick the landing, you stick the landing. >> That's right, we did yesterday morning. We stuck the landing and Ray did that today as well. So super proud of the team in bringing these across the line. And I think certainly meeting with many of the customers and the partners here everybody's sort of going wow. And I was excited about VMware before I got here. Now I'm just euphoric, and it's really-- >> I'm told Ray did an exceptional job. I'm going to talk to him later today on theCUBE. Today in his keynote he was great. He repeated the messages over and over again, but he nailed the tech piece. I got to ask you, as the engine of VMware is continuing to be put together and expand it's like a new turbo engine gets pulled in here. There's a lot of really good engineering going on. What are you most excited about? How would you describe all the action going on? If someone says, "Pat, what's the underlying engine here?" What's being built? What's going to be the outcome of all this? >> Well, I think it sort of boils down to, right, these two phrases that you heard from me yesterday. We're going to engineer for good, the tech for good stuff, we're going to do good engineering. And doing both of those is just okay. And you sort of say, "Hmm, we got vSAN," right? We're not being able to optimize the performance because big blocks, little blocks, latency, buffer size, all this other kind of stuff, so now we're doing Magna, right? And when you see that demonstration there, it's like we're going to do it automatically for you to be a fine-grain optimizing your storage. Wow, that's pretty cool, and it's intelligence, right? It's sort of saying, "Wow, this is really cool." So let's go automatically produce an understanding of the underlying network, understand what's going on, give you the rules that we recommend, and allow you to simulate them, which is super cool, right? Within minutes, we will give the network engineer more understanding of what's really going on in our applications, and then allow them to see it in real time and then apply it. Every one of these, and it's just 10 or 15 tremendous engineers who are doing these little innovations that are fundamentally changing the industries that they're in, in addition to the big stuff. It's just thrilling. >> Dave did a survey before coming into VMworld with customers with a panel. 41% said they're not going to change their spending habits with VMware so creating the-- >> Dave: They said they're going to increase-- >> Increase. >> In the second half, only 7% said they're going to decrease. >> So great customer loyalty, and remember, VMware's moving so fast and transit. Customers aren't moving as fast as you guys are, and you've talked about that before. What are you hearing from customers as they look at it and say, "Wow, is it too much new stuff?" 'Cause they want to continue to operate, but they also want to enable the developer piece. Because remember, DevOps means dev and ops. You guys got the ops piece down. You're adding stuff to it. There's always concerns there making sure it's smooth and you guys work on that. The dev piece becomes super critical. That's where Amazon really shined with public cloud. So hybrid cloud's here. What is the DevOps equation for hybrid? I mean Kubernetes is a good start. Where do you see it going? >> Yeah, and that's really the center. To me, that is the most important news of VMworld this year is the entire Tanzu message, the coming together of Pivotal, the coming together of Pacific, coming together with Mission Control, so really leveraging VMware in the run layer, leveraging Pivotal in the build, and Heptio in the manage, right, and those coming together into Tanzu. I think that's the most important thing that we're doing. And I think for operators, which is really the center of our audience here at VMworld, they've always struggled with those crazy developers. They do this cool new stuff. It's not operational, it's not secure. But in bringing those together, the magic formula for that is Kubernetes. And that's why we're making these big bets. The move with Pivotal, obviously the Heptio guys, I mean Joe Beda and Craig, they're just the rock stars of that community because they really are solving in an industry-consensual standard way. That's really the magic of Kubernetes. This ain't a VMware thing, this is an industry thing. >> Is Kubernetes the technology enabler? I mean, TCP/IP was that in the old networking days. It enabled a lot of shifts in the industry. You were part of that wave. Is Kubernetes that disruptive enabler? >> Yeah, I really see it as one of those key transition points in the industry. And as I sort of joked, if my name was Scott, and we were 20 years ago, I'd be banging the table calling it Java. And Java defined enterprise software development for two decades. By the way, Scott's my neighbor. He's down the hill, so I look down on Mr. McNealy. I always sort of like that. (everybody laughs) >> He looks up to you. >> But it changed how people did enterprise software development for the last two decades. And Kubernetes has that same kind of transformative effect, but maybe even more important, it's not just development but also operations. And I think that's what we're uniquely bringing together with Project Pacific, really being able to bridge those two worlds together. And if we deliver on this, I think the next decade or two will be the center of innovation for us, how we bridge those two roles together and really give developers what they need and make it operator friendly out of the box, cross the history to the future. This is pretty powerful. >> So that does lead to the big question. You just mentioned developers. And when you look out the VMworld audience, it's not comprised of huge developers. I know you're thinking about this, so what's your plan to attract those developers? You're giving them platform now, and the technologies. but those builders, what are you going to do for them? Is it build community, more events, more training? What's the plan there? >> Yeah, and I'd say I think about it in a couple of different context. One is if we were here six years ago, and you would have asked me about open source, right? I mean, VMware's reputation in the open source community wasn't good, right? We hired Dirk, we started to build momentum, make contributions. One of the litmus tests for Joe and Craig on Heptio, 'cause remember, a lot of people could have bought Heptio. Because some was who's going to be the buyer, but also will they be a willing seller. And their litmus test was are you really serious about open source, right? Are you really committed to the open source, Kubernetes tree and development and cloud-native computing foundation? Are you really there? 'Cause they were also looking do I want to be bought by you? Do I want to be part of the VMware family? And we passed the test. That's why Heptio's part of the team. Clearly, this has been central to Pivotal and their views. So we have to be open-source credible. We also have to be developer credible, and those two are tightly linked. And that's why we noted on stage Pivotal, particularly the Java community, is three-plus million developers. Bitnami is two million-ish developers. We now have high volume connections to the developer community, and you're going to see us show up in dramatically more profound ways at places like Kubicon and SpringOne is coming up, just start to be in the developer spaces. And ultimately, you got to do stuff that they care about. At the end of the day, winning developers has nothing to do with great marketing, even though that's important. You have to do great code, right, and bring them value to their development assignments. And we think with the assets that we're lining up, that's why we did Pivotal, Bitnami, Heptio, some of our organic things, Dirk's leadership here. I believe that a year or two from now VMware could be seen as the most developer and open source enterprise company in the industry. And that's the goal that I'm on. >> Well, I have an idea for you. Allocate 1,000 engineers to open source and start having them build new applications, new workloads, give it away to the open source community, and then sell your products and services to them. That would get you in fast. >> Well, by the way, we now have hundreds of engineers who are committed to open source, who their full-time job is open source contributions. So I'm not to 1,000 yet, but I'm now several hundred that their day job, night job, weekend job is open source contribution. So we're becoming very credible, and as you heard me say in the keynote, we are now top three contributor to Kubernetes. This is big, and some areas like the networking area we're clearly the leader in a number of the key networking open source technologies, and you'll see us do more of those kind of projects. >> One of the things you mentioned, I mean you mentioned about open source six years ago, you might have rolled your eyes, or you might not have had an opinion on it 'cause the timing of where VMware was. But one thing you've been banging the drum on since 2012 is hybrid cloud. And so you see certain things early. You see those waves. That's what you're known for, in my opinion. You're really good about it. You see blockchain as a great wave, but as a headline I'm reading on Fortune it says, "VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger, "Bitcoin is bad for humanity." >> Sold all my bitcoin (laughs). >> Okay, so now are you implying then, and blockchain is a lot of open source components there. It's evolving, you've a lot of blockchain projects. So is that an indictment on the unregulated currency market or is it the underlying infrastructure? And are you excited about blockchain as an underlying? Is it one of those hybrid cloud moments for you, or is it more of we'll see how it develops? What's your thoughts? And explain the bitcoin comment too. >> Yeah, the idea of distributed ledger technology, immutable distributed trust, I've said I think of that and blockchain as the underlying technology as almost like public private key encryption, right? If we go back 40 years before RSA or Vashumi and Ari, it's that important. This is breakthrough, innovative technology in how you do distributed secure trust. That's powerful, so we are huge believers, strongly committed to blockchain and distributed leverager technology. Now, why do I make my comments like I do on bitcoin? So bitcoin, as it's implemented, and implementation of blockchain and distributed ledger, I assert is bad. It's bad for two reasons. One is it's an environmental crisis, right? A single ledger, if you and I transacted a penny, right, I would consume enough energy to power your house for half a day. I mean, it's incredible, and I mean, that's why you have these crazy bitfarms being built and people finding GPUs. >> So you think from a sustainability standpoint. >> Absolutely. >> That's where you came from. >> Climate sustainability, right, this is a terrible implementation of blockchain. Secondly, the way it's also done as well in this totally unregulated environment, almost all of its uses are for illicit and criminal purposes. That's who's trading in bitcoin as well. So its purpose is almost all illicit, right, and it's environmental crisis. I say bad. Now, I'm not saying that blockchain is bad. I think this is revolutionizing. >> I want to make sure we clarify that because obviously unregulated outside the United States has been a big problem. We see it in the SEC crackdown, and results are-- >> Studies have shown over 95% of the use of bitcoin is criminal, so say bad. Let's go make it good, and that's what I mean these two phrases, do good engineering, and engineer for good. How do we make blockchain, and this is part of the reason, we had just announced on Sunday a partnership with Australian Stock Exchange and Data Asset, that they're leveraging the VMware distributed ledger technology, right, as part of their go-forward strategy for the stock exchange of Australia. Well, that's good, right? We're making it suitable for enterprises, meeting the regulatory requirements and-- >> John: Are you happy with the progress of where the blockchain is for you guys? >> Absolutely, and we're order-plus magnitude better in terms of performance and energy consumption. So yeah, and we're just getting started. >> And it's consensus-based, which is great. A quick question for you on multicloud. So hybrid cloud you said in 2012, I challenged you on it, and you've been banging the drum since 2012. It's a couple years into it, and hybrid cloud is pretty much standard. People see it, recognize it as the cloud 2.0. Multicloud is all the buzz and all the rage. I hear it everywhere. What does it actually mean is a different debate, so I want to get your thoughts on defining what multicloud is and is it going to have that same gestation period of the same kind of years? 'Cause if it's seven years to get or six years to get hybrid cloud mainstream, is multicloud going to have a similar trajectory? >> Yeah, so let's try to be very crisp with the definition. Multicloud is simply that. Customers using multiple clouds for different business purposes. And what we said is is that we're going to help them manage. That's the center point of cloud health, right? Help customers manage, cost optimize, secure in a multicloud environment where the underlying infrastructure is dissimilar, not compatible, right? And in that sense, you sort of say you can have consistent operations if we do our job well with cloud health, but you're not going to have consistent infrastructure, meaning I can't VMotion between these things, I can't have higher these things. So that's the multicloud. Now a proper subset of multicloud is hybrid cloud. And hybrid cloud is where you have both consistent operations and consistent infrastructure. And that's when we can do things like you saw on the demo today, right? We're running a VMware stack on Azure. We're moving Azure running workloads in real time, right, without stunning them, pausing them, to an Amazon VMC instead of moving workloads from Amazon VMC onto an Azure instance. That's the hybrid cloud, and that's the power at work, from private data centers to multiple different targets in the public cloud where you can be optimizing the location of work nodes based on the proper business requirements. And that might be governance. That might be performance. It might be latency. It might be the time of the day of the week when you have capacity available, right? And that's really what we're saying. Consistent operations and consistent infrastructure, proper subset of multicloud. >> I have a question on something you said yesterday. You said, "Strength lies in differences not similarities." True, I buy that. There's a number of difference between you and your preferred public cloud partner. AWS doesn't use the term multicloud. They say you shouldn't say security's not broken. And there are a number. You want to be the best infrastructure and developer software company. They want to be that platform. They want to be the security cloud, on and on and on. So I see this impending collision course, maybe not tomorrow, but what are your thoughts on the differences and the good or bad that does for the industry? >> Yeah, well, we appreciate Amazon, the investments that we're making. We've both bet big with each other, and they've been a great partner. And in fact, I'm going to talk to Andy before the end of the week, update some of the announcements and some of the things. Great partner, we have regular cadence of our activities with each other. And as we said, they're our preferred public cloud partner. And with it, it's preferred in two senses. It's a go to market and how we position that, but it's also an R&D statement, right? This is where we're doing a lot of core engineering, and that will flow into private cloud embodiments, flow into our other public cloud and our cloud-verified partners. But that's the point of the arrow in terms of the innovations, the go to market, and the R&D aspects of the partnership. And I expect we're going to be here five years from now and we're going to have this conversation, and I'm going to answer it exactly the same way. >> That'll be our CUBE's 15th anniversary, and so we'll be excited for that. It's our 10 year, so I want to last question put you on the spot, looking back over 10 years, pick the moments that you think were key inflection points. What were key notable good things that happened, bad things that happened, or things that didn't happen, right? And then going forward 10 years, you laid out a few of them with Kubernetes. Just past 10 years, could be CUBE memories, but in VMware's world, you were at EMC first, then became CEO, a lot's changed. Paul Maritz laid out the original vision. And where we are today, what's your key moments? >> Yeah, well, I think if you go all the way back, obviously, hey when the first WSX, right, people could run Linux and Windows on their client. Wow, right? The first VMotion, right, oh my gosh, and that sort of ushered in ESX. Obviously the transition from Diane to Paul, the public offering, boy, that was a pretty tumultuous time. And from Paul to Pat was very much we lay it out pretty much this any cloud vision, and that model, it was formative and we're sort of bringing it together. It was get rid of some assets, bring together, so sort of that transition was challenging for the company. But then we've started to sort of systematically say build from the core. What do we have? What do we need as we started to build these layers in the concentric circles? The Nicira acquisition, boom, that was the shot that changed the world of networking. And obviously, that doesn't change quickly, but we have a multibillion dollar networking business, Avi Networks, VeloCloud, we're building that set of assets. >> Software-defined data centers. The Core engine, that was a key point. >> Dave: That was a total game changer. >> You cannot build a software-defined data center if you don't address the networking. It's just that simple, and that's why I was so passionate about that. Obviously, the HCI move with vSAN. Joe Tucci was so pissed off at me, right? (everybody laugh) What are you doing? It's operative. It's part of the ingredients of the data center, Joe. I got to do it, wait. >> John: Just being a software company. >> Yeah, yeah, right, so that was a pretty tense moment. The period of the Dell EMC merger, a tough period, right, as well, and just where the company's going to go. And within a week, right, I'm going to be fired. I'm going to be spun out, right? I'm going to be the new CEO of Dell, right? I mean, it was going to be HP. >> John: All the rumor. >> Stock is 40, obviously the Amazon moment, when we did that partnership. vCloud Air, hey, we had the right idea. We didn't implement it properly, and then we did it right with the Amazon partnership, and that just changed the cloud industry. And I think we're going to look at today, this week, and the moves with Heptio, Kubernetes, Pivotal, those pieces coming together, and to this audience Project Pacific, right, it's just like okay, wow, everyone of them will become Kubernetes enabled. 20,000 selfies with Joe Beda, right, have now been ushered because it is that game changing, we believe. This is the biggest free architecture of the Core platform in a decade, so. >> My favorite quote from you was if you're not out on that next wave, you're driftwood. You said that on the QA, I forget which year it was. >> And mine's security's the do over. (Pat laughs) >> You're doing it over, you're doing it, Mr. Gelsinger. >> Next 10 years, what's the big wave everyone should be on? What's the wave that you identify? You've seen many waves, you've created waves, you've been part of waves. What's the wave for the next 10 years that people should pay attention to, that they need to be on? >> Well, if they're not on the networking wave, get on it, right? They got to be on this multicloud hybrid wave. Could it be louder? The Kubernetes one is the one, right? That's the one I'm going to put at the front of the list. And this move in security, I am just passionate about this, and as I've said to my team, if this is the last thing I do in my career is I want to change security. We just not are satisfying our customers. They shouldn't put more stuff on our platforms if they can't-- >> John: National defense issues, huge problems. >> It was just terrible. And I said if it kills me, right, I'm going to get this done. And they says, "It might kill you, Pat." >> Mount Kilimanjaro right there. Pat, thank you for all your commentary, and great look back 10 years. You've been one of our favorite guests coming on theCUBE, bringing A game, you're bringing the tech chops, the historian aspect, also you're running one of the most valuable open source companies in the cloud. (Pat and John laugh) >> Love you guys, thanks so much. >> Thanks, Pat. Pat Gelsinger here inside theCUBE. Our 10th year, VM's looking good off the tee right now, middle of the fairway, as they say, for the next 10 years. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's theCUBE, covering Block Chain Unbound, Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Block Chain Unbound. It's a global event, people from all around the world, from South Africa, Miami, Russia, San Francisco, New York, all around the world, talking about Blockchain cryptocurrency, the decentralized internet, and the future of Money, that's the killer app in Blockchain and cryptocurrency. I'm John Furrier, your host, my next guest is Scott Picken, who's the founder and CEO of Wealth Migrate Platform. Scott, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, awesome John, thanks for having me. It's quite an exciting group of people here. >> We met last night, had a great conversation, I really liked some of the things that we were talking about, I wanted to bring you on because being in South Africa, where you're living and working, you have a unique perspective because you see the global landscape. So, I'm from Silicon Valley, we're here in Puerto Rico, America's got their view, the UK just announced a deal with Coinbase for essentially a license to convert funds into separate bank accounts through faster payment mechanisms, basically taking crypto and turning it into Fiat. Kind of a game changer. >> The one thing with the UK is they've been at the head of all of the different innovations over the last five to 10 years. They were right at the head in terms of crowdfunding and they're doing exactly the same in terms of now with the whole cryptospace. And it's actually quite interesting because when you take into account Brexit, they actually really need to do it because they want funds coming into the country, they want to be seen as the future of the banking market, et cetera, so it's actually really exciting. When you look around the world it's fascinating that I said this to you last night, that America really grew because Europe used to have all the controls. And so the capital basically left Europe and were in America and now it's happening 300 years later as America has all the controls and the capital's starting to go elsewhere. >> So America's turning into Europe. And so the potential is to bring, you don't have to say it, I'm an American and we're concerned about it. Americans are concerned that we don't want to be that old guard, like Europe was to America in the America days. So a new liberation's happening. UK's putting a stake in the ground, saying, "We want to get our mojo back," my words. >> Scott: sitting here in Puerto Rico. >> Yeah, they're in Puerto Rico. They're going to put a stake in the ground saying, "We're going to give you tax breaks 'til 2036." This is a money flow game right now. So you've been doing some pioneering work, what's your perspective, talk a little bit about some of the world dynamics that you see because, let's face it, this is the transfer of money, with crypto, it's happening at a massive scale, not just some underbelly boutique underground activities. This is front and center, mainstream, real money, real commerce. Your thoughts? >> I would take it a step back, actually. I think there's eight major macro trends that are all culminating at the same time. So the first one is in the education space, and the whole of education is changing, and it's really becoming gamification, and it's becoming learning while doing. So you don't learn and then go do something, you actually learn while you're doing it. The second one, for me, is the whole Blockchain. And what that's enabling people is getting democratization to wealth and access to assets, whether they're in their country or global assets, basically. The third thing that's really important is you've got the rise of the middle class. You know, a lot of people talk about the unbanked three billion, but what they don't realize is that 1.2 billion people joined the middle class. And they are primarily in the emerging world, they're in Africa, India, China. And what they want is, they want health, they want education, and they want access to wealth. Then you take into account what's happening in terms of collaborative investing. In the old days it was I do it on my own, you do it on your own, we sort of trust the financial industry. Now we're coming together, it's the power of the crowd. I could go on and on, that's just four of them, there's another four. They're all coming together and because this is happening is why we're seeing this metamorphosis and cryptocurrency is the catalyst on top of Blockchain that's allowing this to take place. >> Talk about some of the things that you've been advocating for, I know you were sharing a private story, maybe this may or may not be the right time to talk about it, but you put forth some pretty forthright concepts in memos and letters to folks, and no one will publish it. What are those views, because we've got the cameras rolling right now, share your vision. >> Again, I fundamentally believe that technology can solve grand challenges. And when you take our platform and what we're doing, we're effectively helping the 99% invest in commercial real estate like the top 1%. So what we were talking about last night was, I come from a country, South Africa, I was previously from Zimbabwe, and unfortunately for us is that in South Africa, they're talking now about taking away land without compensation. So land redistribution without compensation. Now, Einstein says that if you want to solve a problem, you can't solve it with the same reality that created the problem. And so I wrote a letter to the President, an open letter two weeks ago, and I said, listen. Why don't we do it differently? You're giving a person a piece of land in the middle of nowhere when they've never been a farmer will not help them get wealthy, I guarantee it. And if I'm wrong, let's go look at Zimbabwe. Which is a economic disaster. What about if we give them access to ownership of a good quality commercial asset that's earning a passive income? That is how you'll grow your wealth. And then add to that, Cape Town nearly became the first city, and it still could be the first city, that literally runs out of water. So why don't you go build a decent ionization plant in Cape Town with government money, allow people that you would give land to actually access to that asset and allow them to have the ownership? And that's sort of the concept, where you just think about it completely different. And you allow technology to actually give people what they want, which is wealth and prosperity for their family, and not just a farm in the middle of nowhere. >> And you're really addressing, I think, the incentive system combined with structural change. You talk about gamification earlier, this is kind of the dynamic. How important from an education standpoint, meaning educating stakeholders, old guard or existing governments, because you have this organic groundswell coming up of young people, people with vision that are older and more experienced like us, what's the formula, how do you get this ball rolling? >> So it's quite interesting, I get asked this question all the time and for us, in the first world, a lot of what we're talking about is it nice to have? It's sort of a bit of a game and if I can participate, but where I come from in the emerging world, it's a necessity. There are no other solutions. So if you live in South Africa or China or India and you want to get your money into a first world country like England, Australia, or America, it's very very difficult and virtually no one can do it. But it's a major problem, because you want world preservation, you want your Plan B, you want your children to be able to go to a first world university, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so to answer your question, I think the way it will get solved is in communities where it's not a nice to have, it's a necessity. In terms of educating the old guard, I believe that what happens is you get groundswell, like literally when people really need a solution solved, they persuade governments and regulators to change and it's interesting, coming back to how we started the conversation, that's why smaller countries are often the ones to adopt the regulated new change and, more importantly, countries in emerging markets, whereas first world countries are trying to protect what they have and, unfortunately, the new world is about capital. And its capital flows. >> It's a choice between playing offense or defense, really in my mind it's a sports metaphor, whatever sport you like you know. We love the sports analogies. But this is what UK's doing, they're playing offense. And I think you're seeing other countries wanting to restructure themselves as digital nations because that's what the young people are expecting. So with that in mind, you have a global fabric here at this event, and it's just a microcosm of what we're seeing, which is outside the US, call it the little US bubble that we're living in, Silicon Valley, that's one case I'm wary of, but the growth outside the United States and even in Asia and south of the border, if you will, south of the equator, there's a ton of global action. What is, in your opinion, the few global things that are going on, that people should know about when it comes to how money's flowing and what they can do to take advantage of the trend rather than trying to hold it back. What do we do, is it get into the current? Ride the wave? What should people understand about the new global dynamic? >> So the first thing I would say is, I always laugh at this, but people don't understand how much innovation's going on in China. Like, go and understand WeChat to start off with. It is phenomenal, what is happening. The second thing for me is the global capital flows. When you consider how much capital is moving from the emerging world into the first world, primarily in real estate at the moment. And that's just the top 1% of the top 1%, you know, that's the people with 10, a hundred million dollars. But I've already said to you, there's 1.2 billion people coming into the emerging markets. In the middle class, they're going to want the same things. And so those capital flows are going to be going cross border. I also believe, with time, capital flows will be going from the first world into the emerging world in a safe way but wanting higher returns. >> So then the emerging world, the US has a shrinking middle class, but yet the emerging world has a growing middle class. That's going to attract new entrants. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Well, take into account China. Has China had a big impact on the global economy in the last 20 years? Yes or no? >> Yes. >> How many people are in the middle class in China? Plus or minus? >> Don't know. >> I've heard different reports from 200 million to 400 million, but whether it's 200 or 400-- >> It's more than it was 10 years ago. >> I know, but think about the impact that's had on the global economy. I'm not saying that this is 1.2 billion in the next 10 years, it's either a factor of five to eight, depending on which way you want to look at it. >> How much money, in your guesstimation, if you had to throw a dart at the board, order of magnitude, is flowing out of China with crypto into other assets? >> In the crypto space that's fascinating, because a lot of it is hard to tell, actually. In real estate last year alone, it was just short of 30 billion dollars went into commercial real estate from China. Now what's interesting is that a lot of that money is sort of gray, like no one actually knows where it's coming from, which is why China tightened it up so much. It's also why they tightened up the crypto side of things. Because a lot of people want to get their money out of the country and into first world economies, and that's why, in the emerging world, cryptocurrencies have been embraced more, actually, than in the first world. >> John: It's a faster way to move that money. >> Coming back to necessity. So in South Africa, in Zimbabwe, in China you pay more for Bitcoin than you do in America or Europe. I don't know if you know that. >> John: No, I don't know that. >> And by quite a lot. Like in Zimbabwe you pay nearly double. So a lot of people are making money by overcharging coins. They buy them in Europe, they sell them in South Africa, they sell them in Zimbabwe, they sell them in Nigeria. >> So the demand to move the money out of country is very high. >> Well, because they've got capital controls. So they have currency controls. So you're only allowed to move a certain amount of capital out of the country legally. So what happens now, you buy cryptocurrency and you can effectively invest in assets around the world. And you literally started off this conversation, right in the beginning, there's a democratization in terms of capital flows and what's happening, and people are going to put their capital where they want to. And governments, I believe, are not going to be able to control it by putting up controls, they're going to have to make their countries attractive so that the capital's flowing into the country, not out of the country. >> So what's your take on big multinational corporations that have capital structures, have equity positions, and it could be also growing venture-backed or private equity-based companies, they have capital structures, they have equity investors, in some case public, and privates, and unicorn valleys or whatnot, now moving to look at utility tokens as a way to get to a global gamification. So you have multiple securities, a utility, and in some cases a security token a real security. That seems to be a dynamic, are you seeing that on a global scale, are you seeing any activity there, we're seeing a little bit of movement around big companies trying to figure out how to play in crypto. >> From my experience, not a huge amount. I think that most people, they have a board, it's all around reputation, they got to meet the lawyers, the lawyers tell them, you're going to get crucified. And so from my experience, not a huge amount, it tends to be the small to medium enterprises that are prepared to go out and look at it. However, I will say from our personal business perspective, we built our entire company on a community. We've got shareholders all over the world and so for me, when it came to the crypto and the ICO market, that was just doing that more aggressively, effectively, and community-based companies are the future. So whether you're a Fortune 500 company or a start up, it's all about building the community, and I believe that whether it's utility token or security or a combination of the two, it provides an incredible vehicle to ultimately be the catalyst to a community. And if you're the catalyst to a community adding value, then you're going to build a company of value. >> And capture that value. So, Scott, I got to ask you about Wealth Migrate. Talk about your platform. First of all, thank you for sharing your perspective here on theCUBE. It's been fantastic to get that data out. What's your company about? Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing, your value proposition, state of the company, are you doing an ICO, have you had an ICO, what's the status of the company? >> So from Wealth Migrate's perspective, the platform went live in October, 2013, so we're a little over four years in now. We've effectively got members from 111 countries around the world and we've raised just short of 70 million dollars. All though the platform, all on Blockchain. We've facilitated real estate deals of over 485 million dollars and what I'm proudest of, actually, is that we've got a higher than 70% reinvestment rate. What we're doing is we're allowing the 99% to invest like the 1%, our minimum investment at the moment is $1,000, we're beta testing $100, and my dream is to get it to $1. You asked a little bit about the ICO. We built our platform on Blockchain not because of an ICO. Our number one challenge was trust. And ultimately Blockchain enabled us to solve the trust problem. The second thing for us is that my dream is to get it to $1 per person per investment. I want to solve the wealth gap. And I truly believe we can do it when we can allow anyone anywhere to invest in good quality assets. I can't do it with the current system, there's too many friction costs. With crypto and volume I can. >> Whether it's semantics, or education and/or hurdle rate on dollars, it's an interesting concept. You want to make the 99% invest like the 1%. Explain what that means, take a minute to explain that concept. I mean, some people are like, "Okay, I know what "the 1% is, there was a movement about that." So now you're talking about something pretty radical and interesting. What does that actually mean? I mean, empowering people to make more money? Unpack that concept. >> So let me ask you a question. Do you personally own a medical building? >> Do I own what? >> A medical building. >> No. >> Like a hospital, medical building. >> No. >> So it's 2009, I'm in Bondi Beach, Sydney and I meet two US dollar billionaires. I had helped about two and a half thousand people buy houses and apartments in England, Australia, America, and South Africa. And I sat with them and I said, "What are you investing in?" And they said, "Medical buildings." I said, "Why medical buildings?" And they said, "Well think about it. "No matter what happens in the global economy, "people need doctors." I was like, that makes sense. Secondly, they said, "Doctors never move." I was like, that makes sense. Thirdly, doctors are very good at being doctors, but they're not accountants. And so they sign long term, good, favorable leases. Now from a property perspective, real estate perspective, that's a no brainer. And I said to them, "How do I participate?" And they said it's really simple. It's for friends and family, there's eight people only, it's five million Australian dollars each. I was like, now there's the problem. That company today is over 700 million dollars, it's on the Australian Stock Exchange, and it's what I call financial exclusion. You and me don't own medical buildings. Since October 2013, we've enabled people to invest in medical buildings from $1,000. So the top 1% get wealthy by investing in better assets than the 99%. >> John: Because they have access. >> Because they've got access. >> John: And the cash. >> And the cash. But we've dropped the barriers to entry. Because you and I can participate now from $1,000 and I will get it to $1. >> So it's a combination of leveraging the asset based securitization with that opportunity by using a crowdsourcing kind of model, is that what you're thinking? >> So, effectively, and I'd suggest-- >> John: I'm oversimplifying it. >> No, no, 100%, I'd suggest everyone goes and looks up the term collaborative investing which is ultimately, it's a thing that's been going on for decades by very wealthy people on how to successfully invest. We've taken that but we've added a smart component. And why that's important is because in the past you needed 10, 50 million dollars to do collaborative investing, now you can do collaborative investing with $1,000. >> Yeah and what's beautiful is that you understand potentially whose reputation you're working with, you can move in herds, network effect kicks in, that's awesome. >> What gives me the greatest pleasure, I mean, children, my son is six years old, he's already investing. You know, most kids are playing Monopoly, he's playing real Monopoly, and so are adults. And what gives me the most pleasure and pride ever, and what I'm grateful for, is that we're changing people's lives. >> People talk about how to solve the welfare system, all kinds of things, you make people own something, or try to own something or trade, whether they make money or lose money, you learn from it, you're better for it. Here, you're providing a great service by opening the door, lowering the barriers to entry, to potentially wealth creation. >> Dude, I call it freedom. At the end of the day, if you're where you want to live, where you want to send your kids to school, how you want to retire, whether you want to donate to the church or whatever, I don't really care what you want, but I want you to have the freedom to be able to do it. And wealthy people get that freedom by investing in quality assets. And we're just allowing them to do that now. >> And the democratization is multiful, in this case you're creating a new economy model so the whole freedom, democracy aspect is in play. >> Well, I mean if you think about it, when you get into $1 per person, $1 will not change your life. But if you change your habits, you'll change your financial destiny. And so my philosophy is get it to $1, so that every single person can participate. And once you start to learn good habits around money and wealth, the rest just, it's a formula. >> It's a flywheel. Kickstand. Scott Picken, who's the founder and CEO of Wealth Migrate Platform from South Africa, formerly of Zimbabwe we learned today, great sharing the global perspective. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Exclusive coverage from Puerto Rico, this is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier getting the signal here out of all the noise in the market, this is what we do, this is theCUBE's mission, to bring you the best content, best story from the best people, more coverage here in Puerto Rico. Day one of two days of coverage. After this short break, thanks for watching.