>>Set restaurants. And who says TEUs had got a little ass more skin in the game for us, in charge of his destiny? You guys are excited. Robert Worship is Chief Alumni. >>My name is Dave Ante, and I'm a long time industry analyst. So when you're as old as I am, you've seen a lot of transitions. Everybody talks about industry cycles and waves. I've seen many, many waves. Met a lot of industry executives and of a little bit of a, an industry historian. When you interview many thousands of people, probably five or 6,000 people as I have over the last half of a decade, you get to interact with a lot of people's knowledge and you begin to develop patterns. And so that's sort of what I bring is, is an ability to catalyze the conversation and, you know, share that knowledge with others in the community. Our philosophy is everybody's expert at something. Everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that's something well, we wanna focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share it with our communities. This is Dave Ante. Thanks for watching the Cube. >>Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cube where we are streaming live this week from CubeCon. I am Savannah Peterson and I am joined by an absolutely stellar lineup of cube brilliance this afternoon. To my left, a familiar face, Lisa Martin. Lisa, how you feeling? End of day two. >>Excellent. It was so much fun today. The buzz started yesterday, the momentum, the swell, and we only heard even more greatness today. >>Yeah, yeah, abs, absolutely. You know, I, I sometimes think we've hit an energy cliff, but it feels like the energy is just >>Continuous. Well, I think we're gonna, we're gonna slide right into tomorrow. >>Yeah, me too. I love it. And we've got two fantastic analysts with us today, Sarge and Keith. Thank you both for joining us. We feel so lucky today. >>Great being back on. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, Yeah. It's nice to have you back on the show. We were, had you yesterday, but I miss hosting with you. It's been a while. >>It has been a while. We haven't done anything in since, Since pre >>Pandemic, right? Yeah, I think you're >>Right. Four times there >>Be four times back in the day. >>We, I always enjoy whole thing, Lisa, cuz she's so well prepared. I don't have to do any research when I come >>Home. >>Lisa will bring up some, Oh, sorry. Jeep, I see that in 2008 you won this award for Yeah. Being just excellent and I, I'm like, Oh >>Yeah. All right Keith. So, >>So did you do his analysis? >>Yeah, it's all done. Yeah. Great. He only part, he's not sitting next to me too. We can't see it, so it's gonna be like a magic crystal bell. Right. So a lot of people here. You got some stats in terms of the attendees compared >>To last year? Yeah, Priyanka told us we were double last year up to 8,000. We also got the scoop earlier that 2023 is gonna be in Chicago, which is very exciting. >>Oh, that is, is nice. Yeah, >>We got to break that here. >>Excellent. Keith, talk to us about what some of the things are that you've seen the last couple of days. The momentum. What's the vibe? I saw your tweet about the top three things you were being asked. Kubernetes was not one of them. >>Kubernetes were, was not one of 'em. This conference is starting to, it, it still feels very different than a vendor conference. The keynote is kind of, you know, kind of all over the place talking about projects, but the hallway track has been, you know, I've, this is maybe my fifth or sixth CU con in person. And the hallway track is different. It's less about projects and more about how, how do we adjust to the enterprise? How do we Yes. Actually do enterprise things. And it has been amazing watching this community grow. I'm gonna say grow up and mature. Yes. You know, you know, they're not wearing ties yet, but they are definitely understanding kind of the, the friction of implementing new technology in, in an enterprise. >>Yeah. So ge what's your, what's been your take, We were with you yesterday. What's been the take today to take aways? >>NOMA has changed since yesterday, but a few things I think I, I missed talking about that yesterday were that, first of all, let's just talk about Amazon. Amazon earnings came out, it spooked the market and I think it's relevant in this context as well, because they're number one cloud provider. Yeah. And all, I mean, almost all of these technologies on the back of us here, they are related to cloud, right? So it will have some impact on these. Like we have to analyze that. Like will it make the open source go faster or slower in, in lieu of the fact that the, the cloud growth is slowing. Right? So that's, that's one thing that's put that's put that aside. I've been thinking about the, the future of Kubernetes. What is the future of Kubernetes? And in that context, I was thinking like, you know, I think in, when I put a pointer there, I think in tangents, like, what else is around this thing? So I think CN CNCF has been writing the success of Kubernetes. They are, that was their number one flagship project, if you will. And it was mature enough to stand on its own. It it was Google, it's Google's Borg dub da Kubernetes. It's a genericized version of that. Right? So folks who do tech deep down, they know that, Right. So I think it's easier to stand with a solid, you know, project. But when the newer projects come in, then your medal will get tested at cncf. Right. >>And cncf, I mean they've got over 140 projects Yeah. Right now. So there's definitely much beyond >>Kubernetes. Yeah. So they, I have numbers there. 18 graduated, right, 37 in incubation and then 81 in Sandbox stage. They have three stages, right. So it's, they have a lot to chew on and the more they take on, the less, you know, quality you get goes into it. Who is, who's putting the money behind it? Which vendors are sponsoring like cncf, like how they're getting funded up. I think it >>Something I pay attention to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa, I know you've got >>Some insight. Those are the things I was thinking about today. >>I gotta ask you, what's your take on what Keith said? Are you also seeing the maturation of the enterprise here at at coupon? >>Yes, I am actually, when you say enterprise versus what's the other side? Startups, right? Yeah. So startups start using open source a lot more earlier or lot more than enterprises. The enterprise is what they need. Number one thing is the, for their production workloads, they want a vendor sporting them. I said that yesterday as well, right? So it depend depending on the size of the enterprise. If you're a big shop, definitely if you have one of the 500 or Fortune five hundreds and your tech savvy shop, then you can absorb the open source directly coming from the open source sort of universe right. Coming to you. But if you are the second tier of enterprise, you want to go to a provider which is managed service provider, or it can be cloud service provider in this case. Yep. Most of the cloud service providers have multiple versions of Kubernetes, for example. >>I'm not talking about Kubernetes only, but like, but that is one example, right? So at Amazon you can get five different flavors of Kubernetes, right? Fully manage, have, manage all kind of stuff. So people don't have bandwidth to manage that stuff locally. You have to patch it, you have to roll in the new, you know, updates and all that stuff. Like, it's a lot of work for many. So CNCF actually is formed for that reason. Like the, the charter is to bring the quality to open source. Like in other companies they have the release process and they, the stringent guidelines and QA and all that stuff. So is is something ready for production? That's the question when it comes to any software, right? So they do that kind of work and, and, and they have these buckets defined at high level, but it needs more >>Work. Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, kind of stood out to me, I have good friend in the community, Alex Ellis, who does open Fast. It's a serverless platform, great platform. Two years ago or in 2019, there was a serverless day date. And in serverless day you had K Native, you had Open Pass, you had Ws, which is supported by IBM completely, not CNCF platforms. K native came into the CNCF full when Google donated the project a few months ago or a couple of years ago, now all of a sudden there's a K native day. Yes. Not a serverless day, it's a K native day. And I asked the, the CNCF event folks like, what happened to Serverless Day? I missed having open at serverless day. And you know, they, they came out and said, you know what, K native got big enough. >>They came in and I think Red Hat and Google wanted to sponsor a K native day. So serverless day went away. So I think what what I'm interested in and over the next couple of years is, is they're gonna be pushback from the C against the cncf. Is the CNCF now too big? Is it now the gatekeeper for do I have to be one of those 147 projects, right? In order enough to get my project noticed the open, fast, great project. I don't think Al Alex has any desire to have his project hosted by cncf, but it probably deserves, you know, shoulder left recognition with that. So I'm pushing to happen to say, okay, if this is open community, this is open source. If CNC is the place to have the cloud native conversation, what about the projects that's not cncf? Like how do we have that conversation when we don't have the power of a Google right. Or a, or a Lenox, et cetera, or a Lenox Foundation. So GE what, >>What are your thoughts on that? Is, is CNC too big? >>I don't think it's too big. I think it's too small to handle the, what we are doing in open source, right? So it's a bottle. It can become a bottleneck. Okay. I think too big in a way that yeah, it has, it has, it has power from that point of view. It has that cloud, if you will. The people listen to it. If it's CNCF project or this must be good, it's like in, in incubators. Like if you are y white Combinator, you know, company, it must be good. You know, I mean, may not be >>True, but, >>Oh, I think there's a bold assumption there though. I mean, I think everyone's just trying to do the best they can. And when we're evaluating projects, a very different origin and background, it's incredibly hard. Very c and staff is a staff of 30 people. They've got 180,000 people that are contributing to these projects and a thousand maintainers that they're trying to uphold. I think the challenge is actually really great. And to me, I actually look at events as an illustration of, you know, what's the culture and the health of an organization. If I were to evaluate CNCF based on that, I'd say we're very healthy right now. I would say that we're in a good spot. There's a lot of momentum. >>Yeah. I, I think CNCF is very healthy. I'm, I'm appreciative for it being here. I love coupon. It's becoming the, the facto conference to have this conversation has >>A totally >>Different vibe to other, It's a totally different vibe. Yeah. There needs to be a conduit and truth be told, enterprise buyers, to subject's point, this is something that we do absolutely agree on, on enterprise buyers. We want someone to pick winners and losers. We do, we, we don't want a box of Lego dumped on our, the middle of our table. We want somebody to have sorted that out. So while there may be five or six different service mesh solutions, at least the cncf, I can go there and say, Oh, I'll pick between the three or four that are most popular. And it, it's a place to curate. But I think with that curation comes the other side of it. Of how do we, how, you know, without the big corporate sponsor, how do I get my project pushed up? Right? Elevated. Elevated, Yep. And, and put onto the show floor. You know, another way that projects get noticed is that startups will adopt them, Push them. They may not even be, I don't, my CNCF project may not, my product may not even be based on the CNCF product. But the new stack has a booth, Ford has a booth. Nothing to do with a individual prod up, but promoting open source. What happens when you're not sponsored? >>I gotta ask you guys, what do you disagree on? >>Oh, so what, what do we disagree on? So I'm of the mindset, I can, I can say this, I I believe hybrid infrastructure is the future of it. Bar none. If I built my infrastructure, if I built my application in the cloud 10 years ago and I'm still building net new applications, I have stuff that I built 10 years ago that looks a lot like on-prem, what do I do with it? I can't modernize it cuz I don't have the developers to do it. I need to stick that somewhere. And where I'm going to stick that at is probably a hybrid infrastructure. So colo, I'm not gonna go back to the data center, but I'm, I'm gonna look, pick up something that looks very much like the data center and I'm saying embrace that it's the future. And if you're Boeing and you have, and Boeing is a member, cncf, that's a whole nother topic. If you have as 400 s, hpu X, et cetera, stick that stuff. Colo, build new stuff, but, and, and continue to support OpenStack, et cetera, et cetera. Because that's the future. Hybrid is the future. >>And sub g agree, disagree. >>I okay. Hybrid. Nobody can deny that the hybrid is the reality, not the future. It's a reality right now. It's, it's a necessity right now you can't do without it. Right. And okay, hybrid is very relative term. You can be like 10% here, 90% still hybrid, right? So the data center is shrinking and it will keep shrinking. Right? And >>So if by whole is the data center shrinking? >>This is where >>Quick one quick getting guys for it. How is growing by a clip? Yeah, but there's no data supporting. David Lym just came out for a report I think last year that showed that the data center is holding steady, holding steady, not growing, but not shrinking. >>Who sponsored that study? Wait, hold on. So the, that's a question, right? So more than 1 million data centers have been closed. I have, I can dig that through number through somebody like some organizations we published that maybe they're cloud, you know, people only. So the, when you get these kind of statements like it, it can be very skewed statements, right. But if you have seen the, the scene out there, which you have, I know, but I have also seen a lot of data centers walk the floor of, you know, a hundred thousand servers in a data center. I cannot imagine us consuming the infrastructure the way we were going into the future of co Okay. With, with one caveat actually. I am not big fan of like broad strokes. Like make a blanket statement. Oh no, data center's dead. Or if you are, >>That's how you get those esty headlines now. Yeah, I know. >>I'm all about to >>Put a stake in the ground. >>Actually. The, I think that you get more intelligence from the new end, right? A small little details if you will. If you're golden gold manak or Bank of America, you have so many data centers and you will still have data centers because performance matters to you, right? Your late latency matters for applications. But if you are even a Fortune 500 company on the lower end and or a healthcare vertical, right? That your situation is different. If you are a high, you know, growth startup, your situation is different, right? You will be a hundred percent cloud. So cloud gives you velocity, the, the, the pace of change, the pace of experimentation that actually you are buying innovation through cloud. It's proxy for innovation. And that's how I see it. But if you have, if you're stuck with older applications, I totally understand. >>Yeah. So the >>We need that OnPrem. Yeah, >>Well I think the, the bring your fuel sober, what we agree is that cloud is the place where innovation happens. Okay? At some point innovation becomes legacy debt and you have thus hybrid, you are not going to keep your old applications up to date forever. The, the, the math just doesn't add up. And where I differ in opinion is that not everyone needs innovation to keep moving. They need innovation for a period of time and then they need steady state. So Sergeant, we >>Argue about this. I have a, I >>Love this debate though. I say it's efficiency and stability also plays an important role. I see exactly what you're talking about. No, it's >>Great. I have a counter to that. Let me tell you >>Why. Let's >>Hear it. Because if you look at the storage only, right? Just storage. Just take storage computer network for, for a minute. There three cost reps in, in infrastructure, right? So storage earlier, early on there was one tier of storage. You say pay the same price, then now there are like five storage tiers, right? What I'm trying to say is the market sets the price, the market will tell you where this whole thing will go, but I know their margins are high in cloud, 20 plus percent and margin will shrink as, as we go forward. That means the, the cloud will become cheaper relative to on-prem. It, it, in some cases it's already cheaper. But even if it's a stable workload, even in that case, we will have a lower tier of service. I mean, you, you can't argue with me that the cloud versus your data center, they are on the same tier of services. Like cloud is a better, you know, product than your data center. Hands off. >>I love it. We, we are gonna relish in the debates between the two of you. Mic drops. The energy is great. I love it. Perspective. It's not like any of us can quite see through the crystal ball that we have very informed opinions, which is super exciting. Yeah. Lisa, any last thoughts today? >>Just love, I love the debate as well. That, and that's, that's part of what being in this community is all about. So sharing about, sharing opinions, expressing opinions. That's how it grows. That's how, that's how we innovate. Yeah. Obviously we need the cloud, but that's how we innovate. That's how we grow. Yeah. And we've seen that demonstrated the last couple days and I and your, your takes here on the Cuban on Twitter. Brilliant. >>Thank you. I absolutely love it. I'm gonna close this out with a really important analysis on the swag of the show. Yes. And if you know, yesterday we were looking at what is the weirdest swag or most unique swag We had that bucket hat that took the grand prize. Today we're gonna focus on something that's actually quite cool. A lot of the vendors here have really dedicated their swag to being local to Detroit. Very specific in their sourcing. Sonotype here has COOs. They're beautiful. You can't quite feel this flannel, but it's very legit hand sound here in Michigan. I can't say that I've been to too many conferences, if any, where there was this kind of commitment to localizing and sourcing swag from around the corner. We also see this with the Intel booth. They've got screen printers out here doing custom hoodies on spot. >>Oh fun. They're even like appropriately sized. They had local artists do these designs and if you're like me and you care about what's on your wrist, you're familiar with Shinola. This is one of my favorite swags that's available. There is a contest. Oh going on. Hello here. Yeah, so if you are Atan, make sure that you go and check this out. The we, I talked about this on the show. We've had the founder on the show or the CEO and yeah, I mean Shine is just full of class as since we are in Detroit as well. One of the fun themes is cars. >>Yes. >>And Storm Forge, who are also on the show, is actually giving away an Aston Martin, which is very exciting. Not exactly manufactured in Detroit. However, still very cool on the car front and >>The double oh seven version named the best I >>Know in the sixties. It's love it. It's very cool. Two quick last things. We talk about it a lot on the show. Every company now wants to be a software company. Yep. On that vein, and keeping up with my hat theme, the Home Depot is here because they want everybody to know that they in fact are a technology company, which is very cool. They have over 500,000 employees. You can imagine there's a lot of technology that has to go into keeping Napa. Absolutely. Yep. Wild to think about. And then last, but not at least very quick, rapid fire, best t-shirt contest. If you've ever ran to one of these events, there are a ton of T-shirts out there. I rate them on two things. Wittiest line and softness. If you combine the two, you'll really be our grand champion for the year. I'm just gonna hold these up and set them down for your laughs. Not afraid to commit, which is pretty great. This is another one designed by locals here. Detroit Code City. Oh, love it. This one made me chuckle the most. Kiss my cash. >>Oh, that's >>Good. These are also really nice and soft, which is fantastic. Also high on the softness category is this Op Sarah one. I also like their bird logo. These guys, there's just, you know, just real nice touch. So unfortunately, if you have the fumble, you're not here with us, live in Detroit. At least you're gonna get taste of the swag. I taste of the stories and some smiles hear from those of us on the cube. Thank you both so much for being here with us. Lisa, thanks for another fabulous day. Got it, girl. My name's Savannah Peterson. Thank you for joining us from Detroit. We're the cube and we can't wait to see you tomorrow.

(bright music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this a "Cube" conversation. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this special "Cube" conversation here, in the Palo Alto "Cube Studios". I'm John Furrier, the host of "theCube", where a special guest, "Cube" alumni Carl Eschenbach was a partner at "Sequoia Capital", former head of "VMWare", running all the fields, COO, many tiles of "VMWare", great to see you Cube alumni. Thanks for coming in. >> It's great to be here, it's always fun to join you on "theCube". We've done a number of these and it's always good to do 'em in different settings and talking about different topics and companies. >> Love the studio love to talk about "VMWare", what they're doing "VMWorld's" right around the corner, it's here, >> Yep. On our doorstep. The market's changing, you're now doing a lot of investments at "Sequoia Capital", you're on a lot of big company boards. Cohesively you eye-path, you're on the front end of all the new trends, on the new waves. So, dated management has become super hot again, we were just talking some editorial around big data, early days had duped, how that kind of went its way but "Cloud" brought in a whole 'nother level of focus on data management. Really, it's still just as important, I've been seeing a lot of investments in this space. What's your view of the current landscape of the data management space right now? >> It's a great question, clearly, you know, there's a tremendous amount of data being created each and every day and the more data there is there's more opportunity to manage it and analyze it and actually use it to help drive your business into the future and drive revenue growth. So there has been a lot of investments, from the likes of "Sequoia", now there's around data and data management specifically like we did with "Cohesity." But I think data, just because there's so much more being created at such a rapid pace it's just become so valuable and every company is becoming a data and data management company because it's one thing to centralize your data. It's another thing to get it into one repository, but really what you want to do is to be able to manage it, analyze it to future predict where you're going to take your business going forward. >> You know, and one of the things that we're hearing all the time is that you don't want to bring data and dump it into a whole new system. It's got to not be non-destructive, that's been a very key thing. "Cohesity" has been one of those companies that just has risen really fast from start up to a rapidly growing company to a really strong high valuation, customer success has been phenomenal. You guys are in that, you're on the board of "Cohesity", was that obvious with those guys when you saw them, when the investment was there, what was the-- what interests you about "Cohesity"? What's the big focus? >> Yes, so there was a couple of things, let's start with-- always when you're doing an investment you want to look at the founder. What is the founder and what is his or her experience and what have they done in the past? And when you look at Mohit, there a very few founders of his caliber when it comes to infrastructure, data, data management. If you just look back, he was a rockstar at "Google", and in fact, you could-- many people can say he wrote the distributed file system for "Google" that it still runs on today. He left there after doing an amazing job and became an entrepreneur and co-founded "Nutanix", and wrote the, you know, file system for hyper converged infrastructure and then he said, "you know what? I've done that, I'm going to go do my third thing and I'm going to go and now build a company. And build a company that's going to disrupt a very fragmented market, starting with data storage and backup, but really build a platform for data management." And I think "Sequoia", I wasn't there when they led the initial investment and Bill Coughran, my partner, led the investment said, "you know, this guy is a rockstar, technically, there's not many better than him, and if he can achieve what his vision looks like today, he's going to build a big valuable company." And that's when we leaned in. So it started with the founder, it started with his experience, and then it started with what was he disrupting, and he was disrupting a legacy market in the infrastructure space that hasn't had a lot of innovation. So if you think it's the competitors of "Cohesity", its fun to compete in this market because a lot of them are legacy and they're trying to protect their legacy and they're not innovating and this is something that Mohit has done time and time again. In fact, it's probably the third time he's done it. >> He's a unicorn builder as we say here in "theCube" team, we loved him, he's been on "theCube" many times. But you're the new guy at "Sequoia", so they say, "Okay, Carl, you know the enterprise, you take it." >> Yeah. So you get on the board, it's interesting because his-- he's been on "theCube" and he's told me here, in studio that, you know, executing the entry strategy of the market with data backup and the normal-- the team was huge. But he had the vision, he saw that it wasn't going to be about data management backup and recovery, all that kind of categorical venture. He saw it as a bigger cloud place, sort of as a platform as you said. >> Yeah. What is the success formula for that because a lot of people try to compare, you know, this company that company and "Cohesity" has a unique differentiation. What's your take on that? >> The thing that's really unique about what Mohit and the team at Cohesity have created here is the fact that they've truly built the platform. A lot of people talk about building platforms and platform is like the holy grail in the enterprise because it's very sticky they've done it. Yes, they can do backup, but the fact that they have a distributed file system is scales, like, at web scale that can be used on premise, in the cloud in hybrid environments, the duplication, can do replication can do snapshot and cloning all that but most importantly what he's built is this platform that takes a very fragmented set of data, centralizes it, manages it, but then more importantly a lot of people say where's your data and where are you applications, he's built this platform to centralize data, and now what he's doing completely different than anyone else can do here, John, is he's bringing the actual application to the data. So you can now start to run applications on top of his platform, not just centralize your data, no one else can do that in the industry. >> I think that's one of the key things you see in these successful companies, and then Mohit again talked about-- you enter the market on a known beach head, good tan, but that's just the backup plan of it. >> Yeah. >> But they've been successful. And this has been a formula only a few companies have pulled off, "VMWare" was one of them where you were involved in from the beginning and "VMWare" virtualization has changed the game. And so I got to ask you being to having that "VMWare" history and legacy pedigree, as former CEO of "VMWare", where you've seen it from, you know, few employees to where it is today or when you left. What does "Cohesity" do for those customers 'cause remember "VMWare" was a very ecosystem friendly company. >> Yeah. But that ecosystem has been evolving, what does "Cohesity" bring to "VMWare" customers? >> It's really interesting because if you look at the workloads that are being backed up, supported, or the data that's being centralized on their platform, probably I'm guessing maybe greater than seventy percent of the workloads are VMWare workloads. So there's a tight relationship with VMWare technologically speaking because the amount of workloads and VMs that are being backed up on the "Cohesity" platform. But it goes further than that, there's a lot of commonality around how they go to market. They have a common set of channel partners that resell their technologies that do integration for customers, we have a lot of certifications. With "VMWare" we're VMware ready and certified on "vSAN" same with their hyper converged infrastructures stack. We're even supported are with the "VMWare" on "AWS" platform, we're "VMWare" ready certified for that too, to backup both on premise and off premise. So there are so many different areas we're integrated with VMWare both on go-to-market side and technically speaking, and then like I said, look at the amount of workloads that we're supporting, probably seventy percent plus are "VMWare" environments so, I think it's a really strong partnership and I'd say it's one of the stronger ones that "VMWare" has when it comes to building a data management back-up storage solution. >> The "Amazon" relationship with "VMWare" is certainly critical and "Cohesity" plays what, on both fronts there? >> Yes. So, actually there's three different solutions here. We are supporting "AWS", so "Cohesity" runs on "AWS". We support and we're certified with "VMWare", and then the three of us have come together and we're supported on the VMWare platform running on AWS to do backup and storage recovery for that as well. So there's three different ways those partners are in for. >> So Cohesity is not a public company yet so, and you're on the board so I'm going to ask you the board question. You're sitting in the board meetings, you know, CEO comes in, we're going to take that hill, this is where the future growth it. What is that conversation like? Where is the future growth for "Cohesity"? What does the future look like for them? What do they need to do? >> Yeah so, I do think it is around data management. We're still on the early innings, John, around data management. Backup clearly, I think they can crush the market and I think they're doing a good job competing against the more traditional players and even the emerging ones. We can differentiate ourself, but I think the real opportunity is to really go in with a point solution and then very quickly from that vertical entry go to a horizontal play and do data backup data recovery and data management and the more data we can take from this fragmented world and centralize it and then start to think about, wow we can bring things like "Splunk", bring applications to the data. Now try to move the data around to meet the applications, I think that is a rich opportunity and if you look at the go-to-market strategy of "Cohesity" one thing that's been very impressive to me having grown up for thirty years in the enterprise world, they started out selling to the enterprise, they're landing fortune five, fortune ten companies at scale with multimillion dollar deals as an entry point just to completely redo their backup architecture and how they're going to do data management. You don't see that too often. In three years, the revenue ramp this company's experienced is quite impressive, and I think they have a long way to go, and it's going to be on the back of data management going forward. >> You know, one of the things also they've done real well is they align with the community, they have great events. Their parties at "VMWorld" are legendary, reinventing. So, you know, they always-- they align, they work hard, they play hard but they get the job done. >> Yeah, no, they're known from what I understand, you know, they have a great CMO who you've met many a times, Lynn, she is not only a great CMO and a marketeer, but she knows how to throw a good party and there's always lines waiting outside the doors. A board member, I'm like, "Oh my god, how much did that cost?" But the amount of leads we get out of it, it's a no-brainer. >> Final question, how's it been as a VC? What's it like there? How's life been for you? >> Oh, I feel very fortunate, John. To be a partner at "Sequoia." It's one of the greatest, if not, greatest venture capital firm of all time, forty six years of rich history and to be part of it has been a blessing for me, and I get to bring all of my many years of operating skills to many younger companies. I get to see a lot, get to learn a lot, get to invest in some of the most exciting up and coming companies like "Cohesity" or "Snowflake" or "UiPath" or "Zoom" that's now gone public. I couldn't be happier and be more excited with what I'm doing and the ability to learn everyday from some great partners at "Sequoia." >> You surely got the mightiest touch and great experience in the enterprise; the company's lucky to have you like "Cohesity," congratulations . >> Thank you. >> Thanks for bringing the insight here on "theCube," I'm John Furrier, you're watching a special "Cube" conversation here in the Palo Alto studios, thanks for watching. (lively music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread hat. >> Well, good afternoon. Where you might be watching us here on the Cube. We are live in Boston. Is we wrap up our coverage headed toward the homestretch? You might say of Red had Summit twenty nineteen. Want was to Mittleman. I'm John Walls. And thank you for joining us here. We're now joined by Ah, Louise, right. Bower, who was the vice president and chief technical strategists and head of innovation lab at Dinah Trees. And always good to see you today. Thanks for being with us. Hello. Thanks for having me s O software intelligence that that's your your primary focus. You've got headquarters here in the Boston area back in Austria. Tell a little bit about it. You would, Dina Trace. And I guess first off, what this news this week has met to you in terms of the release is and then maybe what you're doing in general. You know what Dina Trace is all about? >> Yes. Oh, that phrase has been around for, like quite a time. Started out as an a P M. Company. like fourteen years ago have been reinventing ourselves over and over again on DH. So we move from the traditional monitoring approach. So the innovation we had in the very beginning when we launched the first product was really would be practical, pure passer. The ability trace and went that way a lot about facing racing, like becoming super cool for micro services. So it would be like the first teacher we could be burying, doing, tracing before it was cool, like forty, fifty years ago. And then I was were involving the product more, more Skilling into bigger and bigger environments. So what's bigger and bigger mean? I remember in the beginning when we were working on environments who we're talking about, like one hundred host has a big environment like five hundred told that that's a big environment today, we say, for even one hundred thousand toast. Okay, it's a big environment, but they can't get even bigger then. The massive change was really for us five years ago, where way implemented our entire product offering, built the new Dina trays, Mr Focus, that we realize that okay, it's data and between people date and having them analyzed data is nice, but it's only getting you so far. So the more complex the replication get, more data you get to analyze. And it's just more exponentially scaling how many people you would need to deal with this. And that's why five years ago, we started to incorporate a I into our new court platform, then for automatic problem analysis. That's also where we're not just BPM. That's just what we call like the Dogg Tools data on glass tools to show a lot of data. Do some analysis on top of it. But it don't help you, too, really resolve a problem. So we used build in the eye, and that automatic would cause analysis again. Next teacher doing Aye, aye ops, affordable school like five years ago. Andi. The latest evolution. We also so again, and not a change in the way people are using monitoring tools. Um, we've invested a lot into building out in AP eyes don't see monitoring tools like be the Martin still here and the application over there, but having them monitoring who being highly integrated into the fabric fire eyes. So we have, As of today, eighty percent of our customers are using the product also via reprise, but tying them into operational automation. What we heard even today in the keynote here about a ABS and Howie iop starts to control and manage that form. More is becoming the intelligence or the back plane behind a modern native stack. >> So we have Chris right on. Who was in the keynote this morning? Came on our program this morning, too, when we talked about just the rippling effects of distributed architectures. I look at my applications there, you know, going to micro service architectures. You look at where's customers data? Well, lots of stuff all over the clouds and sass, and that has a ripple. Effect it to your space. You know, I hear observe, ability monitoring, you know, hack even bring up, like, you know, the civilised world. It becomes a whole separate meeting. So Donna Trace has been going through a transformation. You know, give >> us a >> point check ins to you know, where your customers are, how you're helping them move through this modernization and, you know, move to distributed architectures where that fits in >> so that their customers we focus on mostly are like Fortune five hundred customers who we work with. And obviously they have everything that exists on the planet. When we talk about self for like even from the mainframe to cloud native to serve less, as you mentioned here. And they were in this transition process right now, like modernizing their applications, which, as a necessity, we all want to move fast. There we want therefore flexible architects is we want to build more enough innovative products but at the same time to realize that this is also a message business risk behind following this approach. Think about you in the role of the CEO and say where we're going to modernize our architecture. We're going to rebuild everything we platform and so forth. You can if you succeed. Everybody would say you had. Yes, you did what you had to do. I mean, sorry if you failed, you failed. It's s so for them, it's a It's a big risk to move down that route and retired to take that risk out of the process as much as possible. Really Starting, obviously was monitoring their traditional sex, as they have to today, but really supporting that along that entire journey to a cloud native architecture er, starting with what we referred to as our support for monoliths to micro service architecture's. So Theodore is basically you don't want to rip apart the replication and figure out how it's going to work in my purse services world. But we have to technology that's called smart scape smart. Skip Moelis bills a real time, all of your entire data center and old applications running into it. And it was virtually that sect. You're marvelous, you came. How would they look like in a microt services architecture without catching any codes and then making it work? So once you've done this once, you've decided to move there the next step? Obviously, yes, you could have rebuilt that application. Usually we see applications with micro services architectures being significantly Mohr complex or more distributed by the sign that a traditional that you might have Web server application, Teo Database Server. Now you might be talking about maybe two hundred micro services or more so twenty times ranges. Writer on this under under lower bound here, which means that your traditional operational approach up okay, it's either the database of observer. The application server doesn't work anymore. on top of this. You did all of this to deploy fast. Like for like, bi weekly releases, even maybe daily off, like a smaller granularity. So you were reading a lot of entropy to that system and you have to analyze way more data. Did he ever had to do before? And this is where we kind of getting to the level where theoretically humans could do it. But it would just take us too long where the Holy I ops capability come in where we let let the machines that a monitoring tto take care of it at that level. So we helping them to operation US thieves processes and then really supporting them along the whole journey, where every customer we talked like this vision. But we're also here today in the keynote of an autonomous cloud and with carbonated, we already made a great step in this direction, looking at the interest, actually, like today say, I need five replicas off this container. I don't know, given that it's does it open shift and specifically here, it's going to happen. But if we move to the application layer is a lot, that has to be done and it has to make it easier for people to do. And that's where we tied into the entire customers. Ecosystem toe, automate like their cloud environment and have actually built a practice around which we call autonomous cloud management that we have been working with with customers on to enable them to achieve this over time. But it's going to be a lot maturity there. >> Yes, I mean, so what it talked about that you know, a CIA autonomous cloud management. What exactly you know, is that and how are you bringing that to your customer >> base? Autonomous Cloud Management resulted out off two different areas. The first one was when we were implement re implementing our platform. What I mentioned before, one step for us was to move to the SAS platform, and we looked at all the operation practices that were around back then, you know, we don't want to tell the doc I really don't want to do it. Like having people twenty four seven look at dashboards, then goingto a wicky, then reading a description of how to fix the problem. If you're the engineer, that why why do we do this this way? Must make any sense. So we developed our own practice, which we referred to as no wops. I know it doesn't mean that you're not doing operations. That would be pretty crazy, but not doing this traditional Naga type of operation, sitting there staring at a screen twenty four seven and then mentally executing any operation. So we had our own practice that we've built around it and, quite frankly, which has spilled it because we needed it for ourselves, and then we kept talking to customers and partisan, he says. Really cool what you did there like, Oh, how did you do this? What's like yourself? Respect behind this and what does the practices? What do your process? What's the culture change? So we were engaging with some customers, and then we were seeing that some of our customers back then, even we're doing bits and pieces off. This isthe well because there's a lot of practice and a lot of knowledge around. How did the autonomous count management and at the same time that we talked about the other customers who not yet on a charity who definitely want to get there? But I'm not quite sure how to do it, and I don't want to figure it out themselves. So we thought, Okay, let's take all of these best practices that we have and build more or less a methodology around it. How to make this actually works like how to do this. We really broke it down into, like, individual sprints to distance sprint one that distance sprint to to really have the results within three months, six months, twelve months. Whatever the cases that you want to run on. And then we realised talking to customers. This by itself isn't still enough. So that's why we started to open up this to an entire ecosystem. So WeII brought ecosystem partners along, like working closely with read a lot of our companies, but also system integrators who can help us. We speak of projects because we as a company, our software companies were not a services are consulting company, and we do support customer that some of those engagement. But if you think of like a really Fortune five hundred company that's a multi approaches, it will keep hundreds of people busy. So to recap like built in methodology, we built ecosystem to deliver on that promise at scale. And now the last step was we were doing this. We also built like a reference architecture for it, and I was just in an eternal ideas. So how do we, like structure this building reference architecture and then realized Okay, It's kind of like super helpful for customers. So that is why we don't decided to open source this reference architecture this fabric as well, too, like the tires after community, so they can also use it. So technically, stability is three pieces. It's the methodology, it's the ecosystem. And it's like the reference architecture that you can work with to help you, Chief. Go. >> All right, um, tell us how your a I fit into this. I've heard some analyst firms are saying, you know, some of the next generation of your space could be a I ops. Do you consider yourselves moving in that direction, or do you have some counter view on that? >> I think today a lot of things ar e I upset my now b a i ops, and it's a very undefined goal. This mentioned earlier. We decided to have aye aye based algorithms as powerful platform five years ago and nobody back then was talking about the layoffs. Funny story. Some of our competitors even told us you can't use the eye for monitoring just like totally stupid that there are other companies that they were doing it. But again, so the whole industry is learning here. I think it's really about data analysis. If you look at, if you scare the bigger and bigger environment, you really have to look at the process off what human operations people are doing on. There's obviously some hard decisions that you have to take their have. You have to work with teams to resolve our problems. But the biggest portion is really data analysis interpretation, right and a lot of this can be put into, and a I component that doesn't What's the Dyna trees, eh? I does it more. This is like your saree in codes, so to speak, which is able to find what's broken in the education, what was related to an issue in the application and being able to automatically find the root cause. Very importantly, we're kind of like opinionated and how in a I for operational practices should be working because one thing you don't want it serious you want? Don't want it happening. Iop system tell you well, you should. We start this service because some neural and that were told to do so. That's a building, a lot of confidence. That's why our approach is really tio follow. Like what we call a deterministic a pia a sari. And hey, I did it able to explain back to the user White came to a certain conclusion. So why should their we sort this herb is west of the rollback, this deployment or why that's the I b. Believe that if I fixed this problem, then like the bigger problem will be solved. So that's our approach, Teo T. I actually started like, roughly four years ago, five years ago, even a bit more than that on you. And I think that have a lot of experience, really rolling it out its scale and seeing it will help people because the next the ultimate next question, without always Scott Wass. If you wanna know what the problem is, why don't you fix it? And that's exactly the conversation you want to have, maybe just briefly at here, because it usually comes up okay, f a I and isat replacing people's jobs? I don't think so. We also heard it in the keynote today from Chris. It's augmenting our capabilities. There's hard decisions that you have to take, but just going through tons and tons of data. It's not going to your isn't very often when we talked at operations team or almost every time. First of all, you can't hire enough people anyways to get all the old done that's on your plate. Secondly, um, just by the amount of data and the time that I had to react. It's just long with a human understanding scenario way. Do this demo on self healing, often application. Where were deployed, something broken into production and have it being rolled back and we can do fifty one seconds. No human can do it that fast. That's just what pure, softer automation can do for you. So I think that then you can focus on other areas and more important, new project with us people in on the off space. What's what the three projects that you want to work and you never have time to work out and usually come up with the list. Yet this is what we give you back that time to work on exactly the things that move your business forwards. You >> said fifty one seconds. You've never seen Stew in action. You still have a lot of confidence. >> Well, we we love the machine, enhance human intelligence. You're definitely We could all use those machines to help us all get away from the drudgery and be able to do more. >> Always safe travels. Thanks for being with us. Headed back to Austria. Say, hide all your folks back in Austria, right There always is on his way home on his way to the airport. Thank you for being with us here on the Cube. Thanks. Appreciate the time our coverage continues here. Red hat some twenty nineteen. You're watching the cube?